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Debra Roberts

Hello, Everybody. Welcome to 2020 the After Show. I'm Debra Roberts and as always, it's really good to have you with us and particularly today because we're taking a deeper look at a story that feels really personal to me. It's a 2020 episode which just aired that revolved around 11 year old Jacob Wetterling. He was a young boy who was a br in his family who was abducted by a masked gunman while riding his bike home from a Minnesota convenience store back in October of 1989. He was actually with his younger brother and a friend when this happened. The two other boys were unharmed and released, but Jacob was never seen alive again. What was so difficult about this and for the family and while I guess why it feels so intense for me as a mom is that this mom, Patty Wetterling and her husband, her family had no answers for 27 agonizing years. Well, I met Jacob's mom, Patty, and spent a couple of days with the family and I have to say, her strength, her resilience, her determination have just been something that I have never been able to forget. She turned this devastating loss into a nationwide crusade to help other families victims and to ensure child safety. Patty joins us now from her home in Minnesota. Hi, Patty. Good to see you.

Patty Wetterling

Good to see you again.

Debra Roberts

You look fantastic, by the way, in that yellow. I have to say it's been a little while since I've seen you, but your brightness has not dimmed and I'm really happy to see that.

Patty Wetterling

Thank you so much.

Debra Roberts

How are you doing, by the way? And how's your husband Jerry doing?

Patty Wetterling

Jerry's good. We are both feeling lucky to be healthy and strong and our kids are good and happy and grandkids are amazing.

Debra Roberts

Yeah. You have grandchildren?

Patty Wetterling

We do. We have six grandkids. And they just sparkle.

Debra Roberts

Well, you know, that's one part of you that just struck me because you so enjoyed just being a mom of your brood of kids. And let's go back to this horrible scenario for your family. Back in 1989, you were the classic mom raising four children in St. Joseph, Minnesota. Sports was a big part of your family. There was always chaos in the family, like it would be in any family. And give us a sense of what life was like because you sort of really painted that picture for me. With your calendar and all the activities. What was life like for you at that point as a mom?

Patty Wetterling

Oh, gosh, I was lucky enough. I had taught previously, and at that point in time, I was lucky enough to be able to stay home and be a stay at home mom with these four amazing children. But they were involved in everything. Jacob was in every sport. You know, soccer, baseball, football, basketball, just. And so was Trevor and Amy and Carmen, gymnastics and dance and I love kids. It was just my world.

Debra Roberts

Give me a sense of again of that night, October 22nd, and what those early days were like for you when it all just sort of stopped. There was nothing on the calendar because that was the day Jacob went missing.

Patty Wetterling

Oh, gosh. It was like getting picked up and thrown onto another planet. We were with friends at a dinner party and we got a phone call from the neighbor saying that somebody had kidnapped Jacob. And it was. It was like what? You know, it isn't. You can't. Your. Your psyche can't handle that. It doesn't make any sense. But we came home and, and met. We're met with law enforcement at the abduction site. And they followed us home and there was already an officer in our home. And it just began this series of. Of craziness. And I know, I look back at some of the media I did at the beginning, I was in shock. I was just off into to la la land. I had. I couldn't grasp it. Who would harm a child? And then they Said the motive is often sexual. It's like, who would do that? I couldn't. Couldn't grasp it absolutely took me a long time. And so Jerry. Jerry was able to step up and do, you know, answer questions and do. We were told the number one way kids are found is when someone sees their picture and knows their story and calls the police. So we tried. We used the media to help us get the story out. And thank you all. Everyone was so kind about, you know, trying to help us find Jacob and Jerry, did all of the media. At the beginning, I was. I know I was in shock. Now looking back.

Debra Roberts

Yeah, no, I can imagine. That plaintive question you ask, who would harm a child? And when you said that to me, when we sat and talked, I mean, it just absolutely grabbed me around the heart. Because that's your thinking. And this is the 80s and you were some of the early families that we really kind of got to know media wise, who had lost missing children. Kind of a wake up call, I think, for the nation. But when you talk about how it was so hard for you. But Jerry did those interviews and interestingly, he was getting criticism. People thought he didn't look a certain way somehow. They thought he looked a little suspicious. And everybody said you needed to talk, they needed to hear from the mom. How tough was that for you? You know, remind folks what that was like to have your husband looked at suspiciously. And now you've got to take the charge and you've got a marriage and a family you're trying to hold together.

Patty Wetterling

Right. It was devastating. I. I hurt for him. He was. We were together and he would never harm a child or anyone, actually. And I think that people were trying to protect themselves. If we. If it was our fault, then your kids would be safe. You know, I. That's simplistic. And men are often judged in. In these situations. It's. It's hurtful and harmful and it can lose time in the real search. So I. I didn't know what I was doing. Never knew what I was doing on this whole journey. But I was very, very honest. We had nothing to hide. And I was desperate. I was absolutely desperate. Everything I did was to try. And our other kids knew that if it was them, we'd be searching as hard for them. And they wanted. Trevor wanted to help. He was in some of the early media, and I can't believe I let him do that. But he was begging. He wanted to find his brother. So we were all in. And I would talk to anybody who would listen, who could Possibly help.

Debra Roberts

Yeah. And your pleas and your composure. I mean, even though you were in shock, you were so effective when you got out there. And people can see that. In our piece, I remember you talked about keeping the porch light on because just in case Jacob somehow was lost, that he would find his way back there. And I'm just sort of curious because people who may not have had a chance to see the full episode and they can always watch it later, but, you know, your hope didn't wane. I mean, you held on to hope that you were going to find Jacob, didn't you?

Patty Wetterling

I did. I believed in my heart that we had to, you know, not only for us, but there was a man out there who steals kids. I wanted the whole world to not stop. We have to find Jacob. Who took him? Where is he? What happened? And I. I get asked that all the time, but I never gave up hope. We had to find him. It was a desperateness inside of me. You don't stop.

Debra Roberts

Nine months before Jacob was taken, Jarrett Scheierl, a 12 year old boy from nearby Cold Spring, Minnesota, which was just 10 miles away from Patty's home, was abducted and assaulted before he was actually let go. Patti, when you heard about Jared, did you think these cases could be connected?

Patty Wetterling

Right, we heard about Jared right towards the beginning. I knew that there was another boy named Jared, didn't know his last name that had been taken, but he was let go. So there's hope. I hadn't met him for years and met him later on through a TV station kind of arranged for us to meet, but he was busy. He was growing up and living his life. So it wasn't until years later, when he was brave enough to share his story, that it opened up. It was like the sky clearing. So much happened as a result of Jared being brave enough to come forward.

Debra Roberts

Yeah, and bravery is the key word in so many of these stories, including yours. Patti, I want to. We're gonna have to take a quick break, but I wanna come back and talk more about the years that went by, even though you were still holding on to hope. But it would be 2015 before someone would surface. A man by the name of Danny Heinrich. And I wanna talk as you searched for answers and also how an appearance in court with him changed everything in this case. So you all stay with us. We'll be right back with Patty.

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Debra Roberts

Welcome back to 2020 the After Show. I am here with Patti Wetterling, a mom who is dealing with heartache and trauma, but has also turned it into a real purpose in her life. Patty's son Jacob was ABD and assaulted, murdered at just 11 years old, and it would take 27 years for her family to get answers. Patti has chronicled her journey of trauma and hope in a book called Dear Jacob. In Friday's episode, we spoke with Jared Schirl and it had actually been nine months before Jacob was taken that Jarrett had been abducted and sexually assaulted and fortunately released. But police were able to confirm that one man's DNA actually matched DNA from Jared's case. And how did that hit you, Patty? When we were talking about Danny Heinrich, he was the man who police were able to connect this DNA. But it's years and now you're starting to kind of get this puzzle sort of put together and now you're figuring that they're zeroing in on somebody. Was it heartache, relief? What were the emotions for you?

Patty Wetterling

Oh, it was so everything. We had formed a team with Joy Baker, the co author, Jared, Jerry and I, and we were pushing and we got the. The sheriff invited the FBI cold case review team to come and they are the ones who reran Jared's clothing. It's not like it hadn't been processed for DNA before, but DNA advanced in all this time period. So they knew it was. It was Danny Heinrich who took Jared. But we didn't have any connectedness to Jacob. They did a search warrant. They didn't find anything of Jared's or Jacob's, but they did find pornographic images. So they were arrest able to arrest him on those charges. I didn't want it to be Danny Heinrich. I knew it would be a horrible ending. I didn't, you know, I was. My mind and my heart were in our. In battle. I knew it had to be him, but my heart did not want it to be him. So I was in turmoil for a really long time and still we were held hostage unless he told us where Jacob was. We knew nothing.

Debra Roberts

You knew nothing? Yeah. Yeah. And that was what was so heartbreaking about this whole thing, just being in limbo. Well, Jared actually bravely shared his story with us on 2020 and I want to play a little bit of that interview from Friday night. Let's take a look.

Jared Schirl

People don't realize that just what it took to come forward and speak up and speak out, but ultimately it proved to be a pretty key factor in helping solve or find resolution to this fear will consume you. It'll become a part of you if you don't learn to overcome it or get strong and speak up, speak out, or find avenues to talk about it. Being a male victim of sexual assault, I've learned that there's a lot more male victims out there than the world lets on to. And a lot of it just isn't discussed because men don't typically talk about it. We don't have the same outlets as women. Women have built a large coalition against abuse and they have numerous support avenues to help them get through difficult times, along with a more openness to talk about it. Through the years, the community watched Patti Wetterling, the Wetterling family fight hard to keep the case alive, to advocate for for other missing people to get involved in legislature or to try to make a change despite the unfortunate incident they had gone through. Patty's strength is an inspiration for a Lot of people, A lot of people see her as a really big advocate for good reasons. She speaks up, she speaks her mind.

Debra Roberts

Patty, you got to know Jared. Give me a sense of what he meant to you. I mean, as you said, he was let go. Your son was taken, and you had not heard anything from him. Tell us about that bravery that he showed, what he meant to you. And also, just in trying to figure out what happened to your son.

Patty Wetterling

Jared and I got to be really close friends. And I was worried at first when he wanted to tell his story, because I've worked with a lot of victims, and going public brings out a lot of other people who sometimes are helpful and sometimes can judge. So he. He bravely went forward, he shared his story. And so there was an energy. And the four of us, I. I jokingly said a blogger, a plumber, a chiropractor, and a mom that we. We were pushing this, and we were feeding all of this information to the sheriff's department and the FBI at this point became involved. All of that energy that I think eventually applied pressure into him, wanting to tell. He plea bargained.

Debra Roberts

That was so significant because in October, October 28th of 2015, Danny Heinrich, he was actually arrested. And ultimately, as you said, he would strike a plea deal. The statute of limitations had run out for the kidnapping charges, but police, as you said, found those pornographic images inside his house, so they were able to go ahead and charge him. But he struck a plea deal, so he wasn't able to be charged in the disappearance or the presumed death of your son. But you wanted to know what had happened. And part of that deal was that he would share some information. How hard was that for you to not go, be able to see more happen here?

Patty Wetterling

I. For 27 years, I was focused. I wanted to know, where's Jacob? I'll let the rest of the world deal with the guy. I didn't invest any energy into this man. I just tell me, where is my son? And that was. That was my purpose. And there's no amount of sentencing or just, you know, justice for a crime like this. So I. I really didn't think about him ever. I seldom say his name. He wasted a lot of years and a lot of life units, but I just needed to know, where's Jacob and what happened?

Debra Roberts

Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. But when you did find out and he ultimately does reveal something, what was that like for you, though, seeing his face?

Patty Wetterling

Oh, gosh. I was sitting next to Trevor in court, and you could feel, you know, when he walked into that room, you could. You'd feel him, but his face was blank. He was a man who doesn't care about life and respect and everything that I believed in. He's not. So it was like there was no. There was no. It was nothing. It was sort of like this blank soul. But I heard, I heard for Jared because he never did get justice. I really, for all those years, I was focused on Jacob and I don't think about him ever.

Debra Roberts

Don't blame me one bit. You ultimately, Patty, I just. My heart just ached and still continues to ache for you because when you described how you finally, ultimately did find out, you know, that he had killed your son and, you know, in a moment of panic after he had taken him and he eventually shared where his body had been buried and all of that. And I remember asking you in the piece, you know, was it something you almost wish you hadn't known or, you know, was it better not to know? And ultimately you did want to know. And I'm just sort of wondering, like all these years later, 37 years later, you know, I'm imagining that the pain hasn't eased. How much do you think about Jacob?

Patty Wetterling

I think about Jacob all the time. He's with us. He's still with us. He sends messages and he gave us an eagle that he'd made in fifth grade art. And every time I see an ego, every time I go out on the road to speak or something, there's an eagle that just guides my way. And it's like, hi, Jake. I remember him. I remember the joy. I remember the world that he knew. And it's worth fighting for. And that's what I. What I carry. I can't live with the, the horrific ending. I have to celebrate the life that he lived.

Debra Roberts

I love that. I love that you are fighting. And I want to talk more about that. We're going to take a break, but the fact that you're able to fight for others is just pretty remarkable. Patty, I want to talk about that. And we're going to get into the work that she's doing to protect children and keep her son's memory alive. So just stay with us. We'll be.

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Debra Roberts

Welcome back to 20 20, the After Show. I am here with Patti Wetterling, a woman who, in my mind is just a heroine. And, Patti, I may embarrass you when I say that, but you just are, you are the epitome of bravery and strength and just heroism, really, because you've become a crusader in the fight to protect children from sex offenders after losing your own son to a sex offender. And, you know, I just, the idea that you have stayed in the public eye because you had gone to legislature and tried to have laws changed and just gotten so involved, you could have just as easily have kind of shrunk back into life. But it was important for you to really stay in this fight, wasn't it?

Patty Wetterling

It was. I couldn't, I couldn't back off. I met other families who were going through a similar thing, and some didn't have the support that we did. So, you know, shared energy could, could help them as well. And I just, everything inside of me screamed, you know, that we should build a world where kids have the right to grow up safe and follow their dreams. And what has to happen to make that, to make that so? And I, I tried to help as many families as I could. We tried to get on the prevention side. Wouldn't it be nice if it's never happened to another family? And I think there are lessons that, that can be shared and in building, building that. And I, I got, I drew a lot of energy from the kids themselves. I, I got, I received letters from other children who'd been victimized or who had run away and bad things had happened. And I was fighting for them as well. I just, I get, I guess I just, I was fighting for Jacob, but also, and not, but the world that he believed in. And that impacted every, every child.

Debra Roberts

Wow. It's just pretty amazing. And I want to talk about that advocacy work, but I also want to know, we talked in the piece, too, Patty, about your family life and how, you know, for many couples, something this traumatic can tear them apart. You said you weren't going to let him have your marriage, that Heinrich had your son, but he was not going to have your marriage and give folks out there a sense of, as a family, you know, how you go on, you had other children to care for when you were living through this nightmare and also trying to make a difference. And you're stepping forward, but you're trying to make sure that they're taken care of. How do you navigate that? As a mom and as a parent?

Patty Wetterling

I had a lot of counseling. I advise getting some outside help because you're going through something that no human being should have to go through. And with that, we would have, like, family meetings and talk about what do you say when somebody says something that's cruel or hurtful, and how do you manage the leads that would come up and we, we shared. That way the kids could tell what was going on in school. They would have hear rumors and stuff too. There was so much impact on this community. And I. I thought we, Jerry and I, had built something really good. And we wanted our. The other three kids to be able to not live in a fearful world, to be able to go out and enjoy people. And there's this great big wonderful there. I didn't want them to be so scared. So it's counterintuitive. I ended up being more encouraging them to go out. Everybody thought I would just never let them out of my sight.

Debra Roberts

Hold them tight.

Patty Wetterling

Exactly. But I didn't want that for them. I wanted them to be free and to be confident and know there's more good people in the world than bad. And so Jerry and I, we worked really hard at keeping our. Our family together and. And ourselves. When the kids all left and the empty nesters, I just kind of looked at them, was like, you still here?

Debra Roberts

Now what do we do?

Patty Wetterling

You're still here, and I'm still here. Let's dance.

Debra Roberts

Oh, I love that.

Patty Wetterling

It's, you know, it. We started to celebrate us again and, you know, get to know the parts of us that had just sort of set aside because you have to, and then you just rebuild. And I'm proud of us. Makes me cry.

Debra Roberts

I'm proud of you too, also. I mean, I know having heard from you, what you went through and. Wow. And that might explain too, that glow I can see about you that you kind of claimed your life again. You know, the advocacy work has been so important for you. You were chair of the national center for Missing and Exploited Children for many years. We've come a long way since the 80s and since Jacob was taken. But I'm sure there's a lot of work to be done. What do want to see changed most right now in terms of how we deal with these things and how. How. How our world is?

Patty Wetterling

I think that one of the big things that, well, technology has gotten better in terms of helping find kids, but it's also a allure that we did not have to Deal with, with all of the social media and stuff like that. So I think sharing information is a really important part of it. Scared kids are not, not safer. So talk about things, you know, share articles that you. You might read. The national center for Missing and Exploited Children has really good information online, and it's good talking points for kids. What do you use? The other thing I think parents need to do is listen to children because they see the world different. They can give you much insight. One of my favorite letters, I got a lot of letters from kids. One of my favorite letters was from a second grader named Dalton. And he said, you know, I hope Jacob will be fine and he'll come home. If he's not all right, you'll see him in heaven. And he said, my dog died. If Jacob's there, he can play with my dog. Oh, I just. That was an image I could live with, you know, I was not the world of pedophiles and child molesters. It's the vision of how we want the world to be. And I think that we can't ever lose sight of that vision. If you don't have a vision, you can't build a path to get there. So I met kids who came home. I've met many of the kids who came home, and it's a lot to overcome, but they're great shining lights in the search and the problem of missing children because they can come home if we're all looking and caring and trying to build that safer world. Yeah.

Debra Roberts

And a lot of them out there missing. According to the FBI estimates, about four hundred and sixty thousand children reported missing every year. So, you know, there's a lot of work to be done. You say, and you said this earlier, you don't want, you know, kids to miss out on having that carefree life and families to be able to, you know, let their kids at least be kids and. But, you know, we do know more today than we did when you missed Jacob back in 1989. That, you know, so much happens. And how do you teach kids to live their lives and be free but not be so consumed with stranger danger, but to also be safe?

Patty Wetterling

Right. It's not typically a stranger who harms a child. So that's the first piece of awareness, is that knowing boundaries and if somebody makes them feel uncomfortable or wanting them to do something they don't want to do, to talk to an adult. If kids can be connected to like five adults, you know, they could, they could share with one of them. If they often don't want to tell their parents if something bad happens. But they could. They could share with a caring adult. Make. I like to empower kids so they know what to do. They know how to get away. They know how to tell if something is going on. And also, we need to. We need to quit creating those who would harm a child. Talk about boundaries, respect, permission, consent. You know, those are all things that kids learn at really young ages. And it's part of becoming a decent, caring human being on this planet, is nurturing the good behaviors as well.

Debra Roberts

Such important information, such important lessons there. You know, not creating people who hurt. Hurt people. Hurt people is. You know, we've heard that expression before. I let you go so many. When you think about you having this heartache for so many years, so many people, of course, have been talking about Savannah guthrie and her family. A colleague and a friend of ours here at this network. Her mother's been missing for many, many months now. She talks about the agony and the heartache of not knowing. You know, what it's like to be in that zone. What do you say to a family like hers or maybe another family who might be in that same situation, not knowing and trying to figure out how to deal with that unknown, possibly tragedy up ahead, but yet trying to sort of hold on to their lives?

Patty Wetterling

It's heartbreaking. And the not knowing is. There's no sense to it. Why would this have happened? And where is she? What happened? There's a desperateness that we all need to know what happened to savannah's mom. And just knowing. I just want her to know she's not alone. And all of us are caring and looking and trying to keep that story alive. Her situation's a little different because of her mom. Had some medical issues and stuff. So don't lose sight of the wonderful person that you're. You're fighting for and. And celebrate the. All the gifts that she gave to you along the way because you don't want. You want to remember how she lived her life, Not. Not the horrible way it ends.

Jared Schirl

Yeah.

Debra Roberts

Yeah, that's a very good point. And it seems that you really have focused on that one with Jacob, you know, not thinking about it.

Jared Schirl

How.

Debra Roberts

How do you honor his memory? I know you say you see the eagles and you wave and you think about him. Any other ways that you sort of keep him alive in your heart and in your world?

Patty Wetterling

I still go out to visit him at the cemetery, and we chat. I write. I still write. Dear jacob, you know, here's what's going on in the world he's been part of my soul, my spirit for all these years and he always will be.

Debra Roberts

Yeah, I know. I can understand that. I mean, he sounds like just a remarkable boy. I love that you hold those memories dear and that you have continued to celebrate him and to celebrate your life and your husband's life. Say hello to Jerry for us.

Patty Wetterling

We'll do that. He sends his greetings back.

Debra Roberts

Oh, well, Patti, thank you so much for joining us on this podcast episode. So often we talk to our producers about putting a piece together or we'll talk to someone who is on the outside of a story. But to talk to you, somebody who's in the inside of something like this, but who has also made a difference in our world, has been so special. So thanks again for being with us. And you can pick up Patty's book. It's called Dear A Mother's Journey of Hope, and it is all about hope. It's available. Such an amazing read. And of course you can find 2020 on Friday nights on ABC. And you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney plus and Hulu. Take care, everybody. Most of us are one good deal away from finally replacing that worn out rug, fixing up the backyard, or getting the bedroom we actually want.

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