EP. 392: When You Finally Stop Fawning with Laura Pasley

A

If you've ever wondered whether you might have adhd, I created a free training for you. Not the kind that's filled with medical jargon, boring slides and a 40 minute introduction. Before anyone gets to the point, I'm talking about a real conversation about what ADHD actually looks like in women. Because here's the problem. Most of what we think we know about ADHD comes from research done on little boys. Meanwhile, millions of bright, capable women are walking around wondering why they're exhausted, overwhelmed, inconsistent, and never quite living up to their potential. We're told we're anxious, depressed. We're told we need to get more organized. But what if that's not the real problem? In this training, I'll show you some of the biggest signs of ADHD in women. One, why traditional productivity advice so often fails us and what actually changes when we start understanding how our brains work. Because ADHD is not what most people think it is, and understanding it might change the way you see yourself forever. Ready to get started? Click the link in the show notes to sign up for the training with me now. On with the show. Richard Branson, Michael Phelps, Justin Timberlake, James Carville. Wait a minute, where are the women? Greta Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra McDonald, Simone Biles. That sounds like a list of highly successful titans in a variety of industries. They all have 88, but you don't hear much about that now, do you? You know what else you don't hear about are the 43% of people with ADHD who are in excellent mental health. Why aren't we talking about them and what they're doing right? I'm your host, Tracy Adsuka, and that's exactly what we do here. I'm a lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong student, and now the author of my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women. I'm also a certified ADHD coach and the creator of youf ADHD Brain is a ok. A patented system that helps ADHD women just like you get unstuck and fall in love with their brilliant brains. Here we embrace our too muchness and we focus on our strengths. My guests and I credit our ADHD for some of our greatest gifts. And to those who still think they're too much, too impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized, I say no one ever made a difference by being too little. Hello, I am your host, Tracy Otsuka. Thank you so much for joining me here for another episode of ADHD for Smartass Women. You know that my purpose is always to show you who you are and then inspire you to be it. And you also know that in the thousands of ADHD women that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've never met one, not one that wasn't truly brilliant at something. So, of course, I am just delighted to introduce you to Laura Paisley. Laura Paisley is a child and youth worker who has spent more than a decade working in intensive mental health and dual diagnosis treatment programs for children and adolescents in Ontario, Canada. She's the person who runs toward the crisis when everyone else is running away from it. And as she's come to understand her own adhd, she's realized that many of the traits that make her exceptional in that environment are the very traits that she once struggled to understand. At 32, after her sixth. Yeah, I said sixth. Concussion, Laura finally received an ADHD diagnosis. The diagnoses helped her make sense of a lifetime of experiences, including complex trauma, postpartum anxiety, postpartum ocd, and years of feeling like she was fighting her brain instead of working with it. Today, Laura lives in a tiny village in rural Ontario with her partner and two young sons. She's returning to school to become a therapist, writing a memoir about the intersection of adhd, trauma and healing, and learning to embrace something she spent years feeling ashamed of. Being a daydreamer. What I love about Laura's story is that she doesn't see her ADHD as something that held her back. She sees it as something that helped her survive and helped her heal and ultimately helped her imagine a bigger future for herself. When Laura isn't navigating the world of mental health or raising her family, she's a talented artist. You can find her creative work on Instagram Arttherapy. What she told me is to read it like, I have an Irish accent for art therapy. So it's art, A, R, T, A, R, O, P, Y.

B

And.

A

And I think the reason it's called that is because you're also into tarot card reading, right?

B

Yes. Yeah.

A

Okay. Welcome, Laura. Did I get all of that right?

B

Oh, my gosh. And then some when you hear it back. I mean, I've been listening to the podcast for a while. It's actually what brought me here. It sounds so lovely. It's truly a dream right now to even hear you read that. So thank you very much.

A

Oh, my gosh. No, the pleasure is all mine. So since you've been listening to the podcast for years, you know what the rigmarole around here is? I always want to hear your ADHD diagnosis story so we can connect you to our listeners Just a little bit quicker. Would you mind sharing it?

B

Yeah. I. In true ADHD fashion, I put it together last night because there's nothing like procrastination to bring out the best of my creativity. And I couldn't even remember how I got to it. After some research through my partner and close friend, I had two children, one child. There was some medical issues that postpartum anxiety, that postpartum OCD hit. I remember calling my doctor and saying, I need a psych assessment. I'm pretty sure I have ocd. And that's when she told me about postpartum ocd. I'd never heard about it. I've heard about postpartum depression, but I wasn't feeling depressed. I felt excited every day to be with my baby, but I was having horrible, intrusive thoughts. So fast forward, I did return back to work and I was pregnant with my second. I thought, having my second baby, I've already been through the postpartum OCD and anxiety went, so I should know how it feels. And to navigate it, false. I had the second baby and all of the scaffolding that I seemed to have just blew apart. And I was working through it, you know, managing all of that postpartum, living my own life and a house that my partner and I bought. And I had to return to work early because that is the only time I could get a child care spot. Returning to work, I started to get curious about maybe having ADHD myself. Being in this field, I would say at least 90% of the children, youth coming through had an ADHD diagnosis. Yet everyone I worked with was not open or did not have an ADHD diagnosis. It seemed to be that's for them and not for us. And I think that's because we saw how they struggled and didn't give credit to ourselves for having a struggle. That would be similar to what children and youth go through. So I went to my doctor, I said, I think I might have adhd. And I saw a psychiatrist. And I was so hopeful. I was telling my family and my friends, okay, this is the day I get to hear if I have it or not. Because people scoffed at me. And I went and it was not a diagnosis, it was a consult. And I walked away with her saying, yeah, I think you should get an assessment. Which was frustrating because I knew I already wanted an assessment. Regardless, I was continuing to work. And at that time, I did receive my sixth concussion. So concussion enters the group chat. I'm at home trying to navigate in Ontario, the workplace insurance system that we have the day of my concussion. They also went on strike, which was a little humorous. Regardless, I'm trying to navigate this system and people are worried about, you know, my neck or my dizziness headaches. But I noticed the concussion cranked the dial on my pre existing diagnosed condition of ptsd. And that suspicion of my ADHD also cranked. I couldn't even remember how I got to my ADHD diagnosis. That's how much it was turned up. And I was really in a standstill because I wasn't having mental health support. I really had to advocate for myself. I did get in contact with a psychologist in Ontario. It was a back and forth and very standstill. Well, you know, things happen or you should just chill, just be in the press, be in nature. It's not horrible advice, but for someone like me needing answers, it was frustrating. And I walked and walked and walked because it's the only thing that could bring me down. Also, I have a wagon and my children are young, so they could be in a container which is very convenient for me. And it really started. I listened to a podcast, it's called Girls Gotta Eat. And they had a guest on talking about fawning. And what stuck out to me was that the idea of fawning and people pleasing being the same was really blown apart and that fawning is a trauma response. As a child, you cannot fight your caregiver or abuser. You cannot run away from them. In my situation, a lot of trauma occurred before the age of four. So you have your fight flight or freeze and then fawn, and that's to appease because what else are we going to do? I mean, these are also our parents. And again, the cognition of a three year old. Oh my gosh. So I'm listening to these podcasts. I went to listen to that book and I was very curious about adhd. So I listened to a book about adult ADHD and women. It led me to your book. And then I was so happy to find out, oh my gosh. This author also has a podcast. So I went down the rabbit hole of the of your podcast, of course, getting so fit and strong walking on this time and doing so much learning. But I was not hearing a lot from my psychologist. My treatment was really at a standstill. I was terrified to return to the floor and I just had enough unfawn. And in a true ADHD fashion, I impulsively wrote him an email outlining what I think is wrong with me, what the barriers are and what the treatment plan should be.

A

Wait who did you write this email to?

B

My psychologist. I recommended my own treatment theory and treatment. I was anxious that whole day. I remember being like, what have I done? You know what? I have nothing to lose. But here I am ruminating in my head that hyperactivity going into my thoughts. And I got a call from him at 7pm at night, and he said, you're absolutely right. And the biggest barrier I was finding was nobody wanted to touch someone who thinks that they have adhd. I think we're in a society that wants to be critical of. Well, why do you think that? Why do you feel that way? Are you an Internet diagnoser?

A

Yeah.

B

And it was hard for me, too, because I constantly get the feedback. Well, it's probably your ptsd.

A

Or what about the six concussions?

B

Well, the other thing is, you know, mental health workers. When I tell someone I've had six concussions, but I'm a child and youth worker, it seems to just be accepted. And everybody has that, well, lit a fire under me too, because I'm like, no, this shouldn't be so easily digested that I have six concussions just because I'm a child and youth worker. I know there are more people like me out there and I couldn't find any sort of specific Reddit group or like, therapist. And I'm going nuts. My symptoms are through the roof. I'm trying to still parent my two children and live my life.

A

So what were your symptoms, Laura?

B

Oh, my gosh. So I've always struggled with your standard ADHD symptoms of that. Forgetfulness, distractibility, impulsivity. I think I'm a riot. Not everybody agrees, but I couldn't remember anything. I couldn't remember what I was doing. My intense feelings of anxiety and that agitation, and I couldn't drive a car. I couldn't remember where I was going. It just got so out of control and I unfawned. I sent that email to my psychologist. The problem is I also want to recognize my privilege of, you know, being in Ontario. I recognize the United States has a different health care system, but in order for me to get that diagnosis through that psychologist, I had to pay for it. And my partner is in the trades. I do well for a child and youth worker compared to other child and youth workers, but it's still in social services. So I was fortunate enough to receive an inheritance from my grandmother when she passed away. Thank you, Grandma. I think she also had adhd, but I took that and I paid for our an assessment. The beautiful thing that happened after that Assessment was that my biological father, my abuser, was no longer the main character in my story. For once, my symptoms could be because of ADHD and not because of something that he had done with that. I grieved. I grieved for that child. I grieved for that adolescent and woman that just always assumed I wasn't smart. I really thought I somehow just fooled everyone. Like, things just happened to fall into place that got me my diploma, just got me my job. You know, I thought, well, something's got to give some time, because how long can you keep this charade up? The diagnosis also allowed me to believe, oh, my gosh, you are smart. I am intelligent. I remember the first time I lost my keys after that diagnosis. And that can be a big rabbit hole of shame, of like, oh, my gosh, you can't do anything. You can't keep it together. Da, da, da, da, da. And I said, no, no, no. Hey, adhd. Here you are. That's what it looks like. That is the impairment part for me. And recognizing, okay, it's not your fault. You can be brilliant at creating art, but you can't find your keys all the time. All right, I'll trade it off. But anyways, that's what led to my diagnosis. At 32 years old, I wish I didn't take six concussions. I am grateful that I am fond and found, you know, the books, found your podcast and your book, and I am on a mission of inspiring other women, whoever will listen to me, whoever just. I live in a tiny town. I'm pretty sure I'm maybe one of the. Some people describe me as fun or different moms, but I also see it as giving somebody else permission to truly be who they are. And like I said, it has lit a fire under my ass. Excuse the language, but I can't help but get that positive emotion and recognize, you know, where my moral compass is at. And I have such an intense desire to help other women like you and I. And as well, talking about that stigma of people saying, I think I might have adhd, I'm struggling with xyz. And instead of saying, well, I don't know if you're right about that. Why aren't we hearing that they're struggling? Why can't we focus on strategies that actually work for struggles that are associated with adhd, instead of saying, you need to have this diagnosis first. Because I think we live in a world where an ADHD diagnosis, I don't want to say it's a privilege in that it is so Helpful in your life. But at the same time, I was privileged enough to have the money to get it. You can wait in our healthcare system for up to a year. But I'm also thinking, okay, for an ADHD person to book something that's a year away, that's not in our wheelhouse, that goes against the diagnosis itself.

A

Let me stop you there for a minute. I want to know more about who Laura was as a child. What were you like? Like, if I would have been observing you, what would you have been doing?

B

This is where things get a little cloudy, I think, because the sexual abuse occurred before the age of four.

A

Oh, Laura, I'm so sorry.

B

Thank you. I'm here now talking about it, and that's the uplifting part for me.

A

Wonderful.

B

So is it adhd? Is it ptsd? Does it matter what d it is? Here's a girl that I couldn't attend junior kindergarten. I just was having trauma reenactment. Also, I can't remain in circle time. I can still remember as a child struggling to pay attention. I remember the lessons in kindergarten and trying my absolute hardest to stay and listen because even at a young age, I felt different from my peers. Not everybody can sit down. The reason I don't have any friends is because I can't participate as a young child. You know, my mom was fighting so hard to keep me from going back to my fathers and systems that be. She did every single thing that she could at that time. And it was actually him who thought, I think Laura does have adhd. But my mom also thought, he's using that as an excuse of why she does not want to go, why she's constantly running away. She was doing the best that she could with everything that she had at that time. And also considering, you know, late 90s, ADHD or ADD had a different stigma. Regardless, I continue to evolve.

A

You remember struggling to sit still? Did you struggle to get through schoolwork to, you know, turn in assignments? Was your desk a mess? And. And how much of this, like, you're not thinking about adhd? I'm sure you know, are your parents even thinking about adhd? Can I ask you a question? What if the reason you've never been able to make productivity systems work isn't because you're lazy, undisciplined, or inconsistent? What if you are using systems that were never designed for your brain in the first place? Most ADHD women, while we spend years trying to force ourselves to do things the way every day everyone else does them and tells us we should do Them, we buy the planner, we download the app, we create the system. And sometimes it works until it doesn't, because even the best solution can't solve the wrong problem. In the training I've put together, I'll show you what ADHD actually looks like in women, why traditional productivity advice often fails us, and what changes when you start working with your brain instead of against it. If that sounds interesting, click the link in the show notes and come join me.

B

It's the classic if she applied herself more, she talks too much. I can remember the day in grade four where my teacher dumped my entire desk. I think I grew up in a system.

A

I had that happen too in grade four.

B

Yes. So many people. So many people have this. It's that small T trauma, right? And sometimes we don't give ourselves enough credit. I remember handing in a book report and it being held in front of the class saying, now if this student just kept the book report nice and neat in their backpack, it would have been a level four. But look at how crumpled it is. And in my heart I'm like, oh my gosh, I poured my heart and soul into that and I would have forgot it and I would have got another level 2 for not submitting it on time. I really believe that it was a time where shame was thought to be a useful teaching mechanism. Yeah, I can say as a parent now we are an anti shame household. I don't really believe in feeling shame as an adult, but that's a whole other conversation.

A

You and me both.

B

Yeah. So I'm going through elementary school. I got my first friend in grade six. And I truly believe this group of friends that I was able to attain in grade six. We all have adhd. We're all neurodivergent. But I feel so relaxed around them to be myself now. Fast forward high school, I was doing okay. 60s, 70s. And then I went on exchange to Berlin and I had an amazing, amazing experience. But Europe's different. Also, I wasn't really in high school. I was sitting through the classes, but it's all in German or there was even Latin class. I was getting up to things. I came back and through this whole time I was also enduring more sexual traumas and different abuse. And I'm an adolescent reenacting trauma, going through it. I found a group of peers and I found substances. So that dopamine ritual, that connection to others, just as an adolescent. I can still remember a man sitting me down. He was dating my sister at the time and he said, you're going to Go to college. Laura, don't say that. You're not gonna do that. Don't give up. He's like, you have parents that are gonna pay for your education. You better move back in. You better just swallow your pride, and you better go to school. So here I am, my guidance office, and they suggest, what about child youth work? And I said, oh, my gosh, you're never going to get paid enough for that kind of work. I became a child and youth worker. College was easy, but I was doing other things.

A

What did you study in college?

B

Oh, child and youth care or child work.

A

And was that actually. So I always believe our best purposes give meaning to our past. Was that something that initially, it sounds like you weren't interested in it at all. So what attracted you to study this?

B

It's something I could care enough about. It's something that would keep me engaged enough because I seem to have this bottomless well of empathy for children and youth and specifically adolescents. People look at me like I have two heads when I say that I love working with teenagers. I have faith in them. I love when they cuss me out creatively because I see that spark in them.

A

Yes, I agree.

B

Anyway, I was working in group homes. I had a big breakup in my hometown and I moved to London. Nothing was working. I started my own gardening business at one point, and finally I got accepted into the place I work at now for confidentiality reasons, I can't stay where that is.

A

So college was a piece of cake for you because you were studying something that you were actually interested in?

B

I failed some courses, but I was more interested in some social aspects. The content was easy enough that I could participate in a lot of extracurriculars and still pass. But I really think that's when I found I really suspect I have dyscalculia. I remember driving up the city called Hamilton and we have an alleged mountain. I was driving up the mountain and I got a call from my professor, and I said, laura, aren't you coming to the exam today? And I said, yeah, it's at 11. She's like, no, it ends at 11. How many times I checked today that I actually have the time right numbers?

A

And I, I, I did that in an exam too.

B

It's the ADHD tax. Luckily, that professor was kind. I had other professors who were not as open to that and whatever. I'm stronger for it, but.

A

So when you actually got to the exam, this was a subject that was quite easy for you, or. No. Did you have to work hard?

B

No. And I look back at it now thinking, oh my gosh, anyone could do child youth worker. It's so easy. And I realized that's also very adhd. It's not easy for everyone.

A

Right.

B

I'm so built to attend university in September. I finally, after that diagnosis, believed in myself. You know what, I can do this. I am smart enough to do this. And fingers crossed, I think I'm going to do really well. Ready?

A

I know you will. Okay, so you work in one of the most intensive mental health settings in Ontario. Can you describe for us a little bit about like, what the work looks like that you do? What does a typical day look like?

B

I laugh because some days it looks like making a group of boys pancakes and bacon on a Saturday because they didn't get to go home that weekend. Other days it looks like dodging logs. It can look like.

A

What does that mean, dodging logs?

B

Like they're picking up logs from the forest and coming at you, you know, rocks, cars being smashed. I received two concussions actually at that workplace I loved dearly. I really did. I remember when I got to the hospital and the police came and they said, we've heard someone here has been assaulted. Do you want to place charges? And I said, oh my gosh, no, he's autistic. Leave him alone. Even the one that gave me this most recent concussion.

A

Are all six of those concussions from work okay?

B

Three are, but one was actually from a watermelon wrestling competition. That was actually my co worker.

A

Okay, okay, so, so how dangerous is this work? And you've kind of like one scenario is, oh, I'm making pancakes and we're all just sitting around. And then the other scenario is I'm getting a concussion. How much of it is in the middle somewhere?

B

It's just a job where you're in a state of hyper vigilance at all times. I am constantly aware of every room I'm in, where my exit is. I need to know where every sound is coming from. I need to be in tune to my kids to try and predict when they're gonna pop off. And you know, you might get faced with a diagnosis like intermittent explosive disorder, which is there is no clear cause. It is something that can change within five minutes. I might have a 12 hour shift that is overall pretty chill and you're just delighting in kids. I might have a 12 hour shift where it is code, which would be everybody coming in. We have a code white. We have an aggressive client. It could be just codes for 12 hours, but I'm also excellent in crisis. Finally the world catches up with the way I think in crisis. It's at my speed before my children. I wouldn't say I'm wishing for crisis, but I loved being in crisis. When I could really show my skill set. I was excellent in it. I could command a space. I felt good about myself. You get that praise sensitivity going on so much of that.

A

But Laura, how is this for your nervous system? Just on an ongoing basis?

B

I think before I had my children I could come home. I could play Zoo Tycoon or Planet Zoo for three hours if I wanted to go on autopilot. When you come home and you still have to be on for your children, I just couldn't have a break. I think that was one of the hardest things with parenting is I don't have any alone time. I don't have that time to fill up my cup. And I've always said you can't half ass parenting. As much as I might be tired, I can't do one buckle up in the car seat because I'm tired. I have to ensure that they are completely safe in their car seats. I am also now the external brain for not my kids, but also helping the function of my house with my partner. It is that gendered kind of rules. And I'm not knocking on my partner. He is very supportive and tries to help when he can. But I think it's again mostly on women. Mostly on women. And also I need to keep up this appearance that I can do it because mom guilt and that shame has also created this whole new emotion that I have to try and process. But it's.

A

Are you working on that?

B

Yes. It was a recent guest you had. She said name it to tame it and it's my new mantra for everything. I'm sure people are a little bit sick of it, but it works. That's also what's brought me, you know, to this, that community of having another ADHD mom or dad friend. Also having friends who have neurodivergent children. My son has received an ASD diagnosis as well. Has made such a difference for me. But I also recognize it's not so easily attained. I mean one of my dearest friends society would say should not be my friend. She is the wife of a serious ex partner of mine. But I love her dearly. We connect on the struggles of PMDD having to be the information center of our house and regulate everyone around us

A

well and then you go to work and you are, I mean you are more than regulating everyone else. You know, everyone else around you there too. So at what point do you have downtime that allows you? And I, I don't like the term self care. You know, it tends to, you know, when we have adhd, it's like, ah, self care. But just things like you've, you've said that you do a lot of walking and that sounds like it helps with your nervous system. But what else are you doing to take care of yourself, you know, without adding more pressure? But I'm just curious because the work that you do, I mean, I'm, I don't live in Canada, but I think that anybody that does this kind of work is literally a hero. But I also worry because of your history of trauma. Right. That of course, that you know, and adhd.

B

Right.

A

We gravitate towards that kind of work. But yours is, it's heightened. Like, I can't imagine going to work and having people like, I don't feel safe enough to let my guard down because someone might throw a log at my head. But that is intense. Lara.

B

Well, I will say I'm still off of work because of this concussion, but I try to carve out time, if I can to work on art.

A

And you are a brilliant artist.

B

Thank you. Thank you.

A

Brilliant artist. Oh, my gosh, your portraits. I don't even know how you do that.

B

Oh, my. I'm glowing right now. That's a very, like, dear compliment to me. Thank you so much. But finding something I'm good at, something that I'm getting, that dopamine, that creative flow, however it's carving out time to do that, it's sometimes when I'm having a hard day asking my partner, do you mind if I go upstairs for an hour? And I think before becoming a parent, we don't even imagine that of being, can I even have that gardening?

A

How old are your kids, Lara?

B

They are two and four.

A

Oh, wow. So you are literally in the throes of toddler Dom. And I just take my hat off to you. I cannot believe everything that you do. And I can tell you do it really well. Like, you just have this authenticity about you. And I mean, I can, I can feel like the commitment to your children and to your family, but also to, you know, the kids that you work with. And so I guess my next question would be, how much longer do you think that you'll do this kind of mental health youth work?

B

Oh, my gosh, hopefully forever. I mean, okay, I want to retire. Let me restate. But like I said, it's like I had this endless well of empathy and desire to work with this group. Like my plan. I am attending tmu. You had another guest from tmu. I'm so excited to meet her because I'm trying really hard to get all my accommodation paperwork together. Let me tell you. To get accommodation paperwork together for an ADHD diagnosis. Mine is severe. It seems unfair, but I'm trying really hard.

A

Anyway, tell us what TMU is.

B

I don't remember Toronto Metropolitan University. Okay. So, yeah, my plan is to finish that degree and then I used to

A

work to be a therapist.

B

No, one of the steps. So my goal is after that, then I can work on probation. I used to do a probation job before. I absolutely love it, but.

A

And is that probation for children as well?

B

Yes. I have to say, I don't have the same endless well for adults. And that's okay. I could be a probation officer and then I'm very confident I can do well enough in that degree. I can apply for my master's in social work and then I can be a registered therapist and then maybe a hair stylist, too, so I can do hair. So you can get your hair done and get therapy. Like I said, I'm a daydreamer. I'm not afraid to admit it anymore because I have nothing to lose.

A

Yeah, no, but, you know, the one thing that I'm going to say, Lara, is the work you do is intense, but I can feel your passion for it, and so I am certain your kids can, too. Do you have a story or maybe two stories that you can tell us about? You know, just that a kid that you worked with where you really felt like, okay, this is why I'm doing this. This is really making a difference in someone's life.

B

No, like I said, they have a lot of, like, creative insults for me that are pretty crass, so I won't share that. I remember I had one I connected with dearly, and it was a matter of working in the school, and the teacher really wanted him to put his MP3 player only in this basket. And I was like, please. He set it down on the desk. Let's leave it. It could not be. He left. He was restrained by five police officers and put in the back of a police car. And my heart broke because his father was incarcerated. And I was like, oh, my gosh. He thinks he is just as his dad now, but keep.

A

And all the adults in his life are showing him he will, right?

B

Yes. And you just to see a child be delighted in it just brings me so much joy. Because so many of these children I work with don't act their age anymore. So when I can see an 11 year old truly being an 11 year old, even if it's annoying, I'm never gonna put my foot down on it. I'm gonna let them be like that because I've seen just way too many children not being able to have that. So, again, I love them. Even though it can be crazy and, like, especially teenagers can be just so spicy. Some of the things they say, you're like, I actually, like, want to do a 360 with my head because I cannot believe things that you're saying. It truly brings me joy, and I think it's where I'm supposed to be.

A

Wow. I. You know, the one thing I will say is, I'm sure your days go by really fast, you know? Right. Because there's always something new happening.

B

Yeah.

A

I'm curious. I mean, when you look at all of this going on, do you think There's. You said 90% of these kids have ADHD. Isn't there a better way to deal with this than what we're currently doing?

B

Well, that's what's so interesting to me because we receive a lot of specialized training and crisis intervention. I have never received specific ADHD training, so I think, you know, I'm off of work and how much I'd love to go back and actually be an ADHD coach specifically for children and youth. Because I lean into my diagnosis. I lean into the way that my brain works and what I know now compared to what I knew then, oh, my gosh, we could make a world of difference for these kids. I think with my own son, I mean, he's young, but instead of saying, oh, you need to be more organized, you're like, you just need to stop losing things. How can you be so careless and be like, hey, here's your neurodivergence showing up? What's something that actually works for you? As silly as it sounds, you know, I just, I think it's so important. And I've seen different diagnoses all combined too, that can be quite cruel. Like, you might have your child struggling with severe adhd and they just want to take everything apart and they want to put it back together, but then they have a brain injury like fetal alcohol syndrome disorder, and they just can't put it back together. But I think if we can build them up and help them feel so smart and really, truly build on the things that they're good at. Because despite a really unfair mix of Diagnoses, like you said, they're still brilliant at things. They can still surprise you. And that self esteem boost, I think can make such a difference. And now I'm going to bring it back to work. Everyone's probably going to be very annoyed at me, but I don't care because I think it's important. And who doesn't want to build the self esteem up of a child? I know all of us at work started in this field because we love children. We're in a world of burnout and oh my gosh, I have so much even just to say about that. But I'm continuously excited. I think that's the other part of the nervous system. As much as things are crazy and I'm trying to reel, I'm like, oh, but I'm so excited to get back in there. So, yeah, if my job is gonna look a little bit different, I don't think I can enter the floor at this time because I do truly fear a seventh concussion might take me away from my children in a way I don't want it to.

A

And so, Lara, is this common in the work you do, that you just get concussions and there's no way to protect these workers so this doesn't happen over and over again?

B

Yeah. I mean, again, I don't want to, like, say too much, but even to get a baseball cap that's actually a helmet, you need to jump through so many hoops for us to be able to have that or I think that there's a big hero drive in my work is what I call it in that we're like, well, we'll get up and we'll keep going and we'll just keep doing this without recognizing. Oh, my gosh. We're taught to believe that this is such a privilege that we can work here. Meanwhile, you are getting.

A

It's so dangerous.

B

It's dangerous. And the pay doesn't add up. Ah, it is not. I would say that we are similar to mental health nurses and police officers. And I know that might sound extreme, but police officers have pepper spray. Police officers can do things I don't necessarily want to do, but we don't have the same wage. And I want to help other mental health workers who have also had concussions recognize you don't deserve what's happened to you and you don't have to feel like you have to jump back in because it's such a privilege. We are really instructed to feel that way, I feel. But I'm also here to, like, support others and like, bring that newness in and be like, Hey, 90% of our kids have ADHD. Why aren't we having ADHD specific training? I think it can make a world of difference.

A

Well, in teaching those kids what's going on with their brain, like you said, giving them hope so they understand that, oh, wait a minute. You know, maybe my family told me that I was stupid and I believed that I wasn't smart. And I think that if you all can be showing them, helping them explore where they are brilliant, how can that not help them? You know, versus feeling like they have no hope? It's really heartbreaking, but there's hope. Yeah. And I bet you all of these kids, their stories are somewhat similar. And when you take a child with ADHD and you think that you can basically tell them what to do, lay down the law, give them the rules that they need to stay within, you're just asking for trouble. I mean, we need to be more creative than that.

B

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I think I definitely have that. Don't tell me what to do, and you want to put me in a box. Yeah, like, just watch me try to get out of it. But, yeah, like I said, lean into that diagnosis. How do we use their creativity? And instead of just saying, oh, my gosh, you're so emotionally dysregulated, why can't you just do this? It's like, okay, so maybe we need to recognize. We actually need at least 10 to 15 minutes. Because your head can understand maybe what has happened, but your body is still processing and holding on to that emotion. I've learned that as an adult. And, I mean, I have the.

A

You know, how to regulate our own nervous systems. I had a guest on. She's a friend of mine. I adore her. I think it's Lindsey Baker. She changed her last name when she got married. But anyway, what she does is she goes into school districts and she teaches schools how to teach their students how to regulate their nervous system. And they do. Like, it starts, I think it's 30 minutes every morning. And it goes from 30 minutes down to 10 minutes. And they have literally brought the children who are a problem in the classroom. They brought it down by, like, 90% just by teaching them how their brain works and how to regulate their own nervous systems. And I'm like, we should be doing that everywhere where kids are. Instead of this attitude that, oh, well, we've done this the same way for 150 years. That's the reason why we should keep doing it. No, that's Exactly. Reason why we shouldn't. So I am hoping that with your knowledge and your ADHD diagnoses, and I find it so interesting that 90% of the kids you work with, with have ADHD, but for some reason, you missed it in yourself. Right.

B

Because, oh, my gosh, yes, they were

A

a certain way and you didn't see it in you.

B

Yes, it seems to be, well, I don't have the same struggles as them, so how could it be? I'm not grateful I got a concussion, but I am grateful that I took the approach that I did. But it's just. It's like your life matters. It doesn't matter how old you are. You deserve to feel smart and not to live in shame of, well, if I could only do this, or I'm not really smart because I'm always 20 minutes late. It doesn't add up.

A

Yeah, yeah. You know, the other thing too is I can understand if you have all this complex PTSD that you and everybody else would be looking at your symptoms and your challenges and saying, oh, that's where it came from. Right. Because the symptoms are so similar to adhd. So how were you, or have you been able to kind of pull apart what parts the ADHD and what parts the trauma?

B

And that's what I'm doing in my memoir is I think, okay, I've cataloged all these memories at the age that it occurred to me. So an 11 year old losing their shoes and thinking, oh, my gosh, it's my fault this has all happened because I can't keep track of them. It's like, oh, okay, as an adult, I can relook at that memory and say, here's your ADHD showing up here or, you know, not having any friends till grade six. Okay. It's not that you're not likable. It's that you were stuck in a state of retraumatization and trauma reenactment. And even as an adult, I think that, you know, through multiple sexual assaults, I was like, well, you didn't fight them and you didn't do this. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I was fawning for survival. Because that's what I've learned since such a young age. It's healing. But you also have to allow the space to grieve when you're doing it. So. So my new daydream fuel is coming back on and be like, so I've written this book and now everyone loves it.

A

Oh, well, let's make that happen. Okay.

B

Yep.

A

You Sent me the most adorable email, which is why I was like, okay, we need to have her on. And so I'm curious. I know in the email that you sent me, you said you were imagining yourself being a guest on my podcast one day. And so I would like to know, what does it feel like to be here now? Are you really proud of yourself?

B

Oh, my gosh. I've been listening to like EDM all morning, just psyched, just being like, I can't believe it's happening. Because up until last night, until I was getting the. Here's the link. Do this, I thought, it's not going to happen. I have this voice inside me. I had a horrible stepmom named Tamara. I don't care. I'm name dropping here. That trauma voice that says you don't deserve good things, it won't happen. It's just a false. I've named her Trauma.

A

I love it.

B

So it was so funny too, because I sent you that email because I had nothing to lose and I thought it was like spam coming through. Until one night I finally read it and it was your assistant being like, this is the last time we're gonna reach out. Are you sure you don't wanna be on the show? And I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it's real and it's here. I'm speaking to you now.

A

Well, and you did it, right? It was because you said, I wanna do this. What is it gonna hurt to try? And I just, I really loved your story and I love the work you do. I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I don't love the work you do because it just, like, I worry about you, you know, But I'm so appreciative of the work that you do and that there are women with your kind of brains that do this kind of work and help kids every day. I. I know I could never do it. So I'm just really appreciative that there are people like you that can do it.

B

Well, then here I am. Like, you probably could because you got an ADHD brain. You can do anything. You said it too. But I really end up taking them

A

all home, you know, But I don't know how. How I would. I don't know how I would react knowing how angry these kids are or can be. Right? I'm just super sensitive. And so I'd be. I'd be terrified all the time. And I'm very like, you know, hyper vigilant. Anyway, okay, so before I let you go I want to know, Lara, what is your number one ADHD workaround? Do you have one?

B

I lie to myself.

A

What does that mean? I've never heard that before.

B

Oh, my gosh. It's not that broad. If I have a due date, I seriously convince myself it's due three days before. And I've also gotta say, I. I don't know if it's an ADHD workaround. I'm gonna say it is. I am unfawning. And if you have nothing to lose, just do it. Because you would be surprised of all you could accomplish because you could end up on Tracy Osika's podcast. The podcast you listen to while you're writing your memoir, imagining she might read your bio one day.

A

Yeah. No, I mean, it's. It's been. It's been all my privilege. So thank you so much for spending time with us here today. Really quick, if someone wants to connect with you, what is the best way for them to do that?

B

You can find me on art therapy. On Instagram. It's art. T, A, R, O, P, Y. Again, I'm so grateful for the opportunity. Thank you so much, Lara.

A

Thank you again. So that's what I have for you for this week. If you like this episode with Lara, please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal is truly to change the conversation around adhd, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you here next week. You've been listening to the ADHD for Smartass Women podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Outsuka. Join us at adhd for smart women.com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women. And my patented you'd ADHD brain is a OK system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain. Before you go, if today's episode resonated with you and you've ever wondered whether ADHD might be part of your story, I put together a training on what ADHD actually looks like in women. You can find the link in the show notes. I'll see you there.