A

If you've ever wondered whether you might have adhd, I created a free training for you. Not the kind that's filled with medical jargon, boring slides and a 40 minute introduction. Before anyone gets to the point, I'm talking about a real conversation about what ADHD actually looks like in women. Because here's the problem. Most of what we think we know about ADHD comes from research done on little boys. Meanwhile, millions of bright, capable women are walking around wondering why they're exhausted, overwhelmed, inconsistent, and never quite living up to their potential. We're told we're anxious, depressed. We're told we need to get more organized. But what if that's not the real problem? In this training, I'll show you some of the biggest signs of ADHD in women. One, why traditional productivity advice so often fails us and what actually changes when we start understanding how our brains work. Because ADHD is not what most people think it is, and understanding it might change the way you see yourself forever. Ready to get started? Click the link in the show notes to sign up for the training with me now. On with the show. Richard Branson, Michael Phelps, Justin Timberlake, James Carville. Wait a minute, where are the women? Greta Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra McDonald, Simone Biles. That sounds like a list of highly successful titans in a variety of industries. They all have 88, but you don't hear much about that now, do you? You know what else you don't hear about are the 43% of people with ADHD who are in excellent mental health. Why aren't we talking about them and what they're doing right? I'm your host, Tracy Adsuka, and that's exactly what we do here. I'm a lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong student, and now the author of my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women. I'm also a certified ADHD coach and the creator of youf ADHD Brain is a ok. A patented system that helps ADHD women just like you get unstuck and fall in love with their brilliant brains. Here we embrace our too muchness and we focus on our strengths. My guests and I credit our ADHD for some of our greatest gifts. And to those who still think they're too much, too impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized, I say no one ever made a difference by being too little. Hello, I am your host, Tracy Otsuka. Thank you so much for joining me here for another episode of ADHD for Smartass Women. You know that my purpose is always to show you who you are and then inspire you to be it. In the thousands of ADHD women that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've never met one, not one that wasn't truly brilliant at something. So, of course, I am just delighted to introduce you to Ella Fielding. Ella has a BA in Fine Art sculpture, a Master's in Fine Art and, wait for it, she's also a licensed chainsaw operator. She earned the first two the way any serious sculptor does. Years of training at Camberwell College and the University of the Creative Arts. Then she looked at that and said, cool, now hand me a chainsaw, and went and got certified to legally operate the thing. That's not a hobby, by the way, or an add on at the bottom of a bio. No, that is actually the headline. Yes. Ella turns entire trees into monumental sculpture. Standing outside in full gear, running a machine most people won't even touch, and making it behave like a scalpel. Chainsaw carving doesn't give you time to do a lot of overthinking. I think it demands your full attention right now. So, based in Surrey, working on commissions all over the uk, Ella walks into a space, sizes up a piece of raw timber three times her size, and comes out the other side with something enormous and so detailed you'd never think was possible from a machine built to take down giant trees. Welcome, Ella. Did I get all of that right?

B

God, what a gorgeous intro. Thank you.

A

No, well, thank you so much for being here. So I absolutely want to talk about what you do, because I just find it so interesting and so adhd. But can we first start with your ADHD diagnoses, because that often really helps our guests connect with our listeners. So how were you diagnosed?

B

So I was 38 when I got diagnosed and essentially the better I was doing, the harder I was finding it. I've never had a traditional job or a real job, whatever that looks like. So I've never had training in office stuff and admin or any of that stuff. And I was suddenly finding myself more and more with all of these things and different clients and different people, and someone would call me, someone would email me and then I would wr something on a piece of paper and then I would, like, I don't know, put it in a book and then look, you know, and it was just getting chaos. And then I was getting emails saying, you know, I'm finding it really difficult communicating you with you and get. And people were getting cross and I was thinking. And obviously then your feeling of being like, oh, my God, I'm a terrible Human, like this is awful. All the while I'm also having these lovely moments where people are going, I love what you've made. And it was like really wonderful. But there was these like highs and lows that were really desperately uncomfortable and painful and you know, and, and it got to the point where I was like, there's got to be some, like, what do I do? And I had a diagnosis of dyslexia at university and only that came about because I found out you got a free computer if you were. So I was like, I'll just try and see if I am. And then they were like, yeah, you are. And I was like, oh, oh, right, okay. Okay, good. So I called the dyslexic hotline. There's like a UK dyslexic hotline. So I was like, right, as at university, there's like people, when you got diagnosed with dyslexia, they're like, there's people to help you, like guide you through like essay writing and stuff. I was like, there must be like an equivalent for like an adult stuff, like how do you do job stuff? Do you know what I mean? Like, there must be a sort of. So I called them and was like, help, help. And they were really sweet and they put me through to this. We have an organization in the UK which is a government run thing called Access to Work. And essentially it's to enable anyone with a kind of neurodiversity or disability or whatever to fuck. To help overcome the obstacles that would be blocking you into your work situation. So if you were in a different kind of work, we have an employer, they would work with them to like put in, change your tech or whatever. Because I'm my own boss, they gave me a, like a coach so that I was linked up with this coach and I was so lucky because the coach I was linked up with actually was a specialist in adhd. And so I kept explaining to her all of these problems and I was like, you know, I feel like I'm really scared of my emails. I'm really scared of them. They're terrifying me, you know, and the more important they are, the more I'm like, oh. Because I was, I was overwhelmed and I was spinning and I was just like, you know, just look like a crazy dog or you know, when you're just sort of like. It was just mental. And I sort of, after a few sessions she kept on referencing my ADHD and I was like, it's so weird that you keep saying that because I'm dyslexic. And she. In the end, she was like, oh, honey, it's just all the things that you're saying are actually. Actually all of that. And it had never occurred to me. No one had ever said it. I mean, actually, if you look at my childhood and you look at me as a person and you look at my job, like how I got to 38 and no one had been like, do you think there might be something going on? It just never occurred to me or anyone when it's glaringly obvious.

A

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure what happened is you were diagnosed with dyslexia. And so we make it then all about dyslexia. Oh, that explains everything.

B

Yeah. But knowing.

A

But does it really, you know, until something new comes in. So I would love to know, what were you like as a child, Ella?

B

I've got three brothers, one older and two younger. My mom said she kind of like, got the kid, you know, got my brother, sort of got the kind of gist of like, what parenting is like. And then I arrived and she was like, oh, wait, no, okay, that's. None of those rules exist now. I don't know how that works. And it. So, yeah, but I was very, very, very creative. I always had a pencil or a pen or something in my hand and. But I would do things incredibly fast, but very well. Like, all of my creations from when I was a kid are actually quite decent. They're all right, you know, that I was just very able with my body. But when it. Conveying my mind, it was not so easy. I also had like, ear things when I was little. I think there's a lot of neurodiverse, like gluey, like I had. I mean, my. I said I had my grommets done when I was little. I can't remember what age, like four or five or something. And I said to my mum, what's that noise? And she was like, oh, my God, that's birdsong. And I'd never heard it. And it was just that I had grommets finally and could hear. So. What's a grommet?

A

What's a grommet?

B

Like, you know, when you're really little and your ears. Your ear canal is so tiny, it gets blocked with stuff. It's like a tube. It's like a stent, I guess, but like for your. For your ear. So it opened up my ear canal and I finally could hear. And it was so. I'd never heard things like birdsong and stuff like that. My mum didn't Even know my dad either. But, you know. So, yeah, I think there was just lots of. There was lots of things going on. So other people were distracted with everything else and would never have thought of any of that stuff.

A

Were you really hyperactive? Active?

B

So I have both, which I think is probably the best combo. Although. Well, I don't know. Actually, I think one of the hardest thing about ADHD is the inattentive side. So I'm really grateful I have the hyper side.

A

Yeah.

B

Because it sort of helps. It helps, I think, but I think it's hard in other ways. But I have friends that have. That are only inattentive and it is, you know, how do you make yourself move when you can't even move? You know, that's really, really hard.

A

Yes.

B

So my hyper fights my inattentive, which I think in some way kind of chills me out in a way that's quite helpful.

A

Well, it gets you into action. Right. And typically when we get into action, there's a result from it versus if you're just in your head all the time.

B

It's harder. Yeah, yeah. And I've been in my head and I know that. I know the inattentive side wins sometimes and it's horrendous and it's a terrible place to be and it's, you know, and you can make yourself feel like a, you know, a really awful human. And then. So I'm. I'm grateful for the hyper, but I think at the time, as a younger person, the hyper is really tricky to manage because you've got to be in a conforming environment and you've got to sit still. I mean, there's funny stories. My dad told me a story when he took me to the theater once. I think I was just a bit bored of wearing clothes and he just looked, was watching the theater turned around and I was just. I was just sitting naked. I just decided I. I didn't want to wear them anymore. I would say I'm probably under six or something, but, you know, he was like, oh, blimey. You know, there was always quite surprising things that would happen when I was there. What were you like in school? Oh, I like, would walk to school and bear shoes. Like, wouldn't. I didn't really like wearing shoes. I did not like school. It wasn't really my favorite. I actually left at 14 because it was just so traumatic. It was so hard.

A

Were you always in trouble? I mean, what, in.

B

Not in primary, in primary. I was like, I was trying so hard, but it was just Just not really work. But everyone was kind of focused on like, oh, it might be because you couldn't hear very well or I don't know, they were sort of thinking about that. And then I got to secondary and it was like, oh, God, it was so, you know, you've got exciting people who are like up to no good, but I'm not actually like, I'm a kind person, but I would find myself meeting people that I would, would, would be exciting but then would be actually not necessarily safe, you know. And so you'd kind of then try and pull back and find myself in like places where it wasn't ideal, actually. I can't lie. I cannot lie. I just, I can't do it. And I worked out quite young that, like, I am going to do stuff that's probably not the best thing for my age or whatever, but I'm certainly not going to lie to my mum about it because I don't know that I'm safe. So I used to tell her where I was going. My friends used to lie and say, oh, I'm going to go to so and so's house. And I was like, well, actually, I don't know that I'm. I. If I don't come home at this time, I do want you to worry and I want you to be concerned that I haven't come back, you know, because I don't know that I'm okay. So I had this sort of strange, like, survival. I would still put myself in positions where I probably shouldn't be, but I had an understanding that, like, it probably isn't the best and I definitely need someone to know that I'm there. So if I go, come back, you need to. So I think my mum's and dad spent the whole of my teenage life just grateful I returned home. Okay, what about school?

A

As far as the learning part, was that the problem where no matter how hard you tried, you just could not do well?

B

Yeah. So I have like two stages to my learning and I'm so grateful that I have parents and family that persevered to allow me to discover the joy of learning. It was so. It was getting tougher and tougher and tougher up to 14 and you know, you're doing all these subjects way overwhelming. Too many subjects, ones that I really can't focus on, don't want to focus on, are really too much. Like there's a lot of stuff going on. And then eventually, at 14, it was really abundantly clear I was not going to get what I should have got, you know, I have the capacity to learn. I am a clever person, but it was not being displayed in anything that I was doing.

A

Did you know that going through all this, did you know I'm actually really smart?

B

I don't know. I think I went through stage. I didn't think I was dumb, so I must have thought the alternative is that I've got something, but I don't think I knew what.

A

Can I ask you a question? What if the reason you've never been able to make productivity systems work isn't because you're lazy, undisciplined or inconsistent? What if you are using systems that were never designed for your brain in the first place? Most ADHD women, well, we spend years trying to force ourselves to do things the way everyone else does them and tells us we should do them. We buy the planner, we download the app, we create the system. And sometimes it works until it doesn't, because even the best solution can't solve the wrong problem. In the training I've put together, I'll show you what ADHD actually looks like in women, why traditional productivity advice often fails us, and what changes when you start working with your brain instead of against it. If that sounds interesting, click the link in the show notes and come join me. And were there subjects that you actually did quite well in?

B

Yeah, so I would really connect with the art teachers and I would really connect with, well, actually only the art teacher, really. It was literally that. That was the space and they were like, oh, she's so wonderful. She's amazing at this. And everyone else is like, who are you talking about? Yeah, and. But so my mom and dad realized that it wasn't working and they negotiated me out of that school. So I left at 14 and started. So my last year of what would have been like high school, I guess, like 15, 16, I went to a college setting and it was night and day because the setting was for. It was. It was for people who were 16. But they managed to negotiate me in earlier. And because the setting was like the focus was trying to get you back into learning. So it wasn't about what clothes you wore. You could wear your own clothes. You could call in and say there was an absence hotline and say, I'm not coming in, which quite quickly I was like, yeah, but I still have to do the work. Oh, it seems pointless. Why don't I just go in? You know what I mean? It suddenly like took away that bit and then the space, basically the environment changed and I suddenly was like, Guys, this is amazing. I love it. And I literally transformed into like a lover of education. And I was there all the time and that because I could do things like. So we did geography and it was like going and caving and actually the, like the earth, the texture, like what it's. And then like I would do art and then photography. And the photography, they had a photography room, so I was in a dark room, like physically touching paper and transforming it into photos. And they had a whole plaster room. So I was there kind of creating these wild things. And it just meant that I. I basically touched everything and made everything and discovered that, like, you know, I'm really good at all of these things. And it's just some bits are really tricky, but I can be really good at all of these things. And it was joyful.

A

So at what point did you get the dyslexia diagnosis? Because I think that would have been pretty huge.

B

I know only at university, so I've just been plugging it. Oh, like, so 20. 20. 18. No, 19.

A

So you still don't know, you still don't know why that style of learning, the traditional style of learning would be extra difficult for you.

B

Yeah, no, this is where kind of your, you know, your home life, your. Your perception of yourself is your protection blanket, isn't it? You know, and so whatever keeps happening, if you've got that buffer that you have, that, you know, beautiful self belief, because you go home to a home that everyone is enforcing that you are worth it, you are good. You are, you know, so every time you can kind of wash off the shame and the crap that you get because you're having that kind of, you know, reinforcement every time you go home. And I think because I had that environment, it gives you that protection against it. So you've just got a bit more to kind of push against the things that are hard. And I think I'm just so grateful that I had that. I think that's the only reason I kept on, you know, falling over and getting back up and falling over and getting back up.

A

So what happened then with this new school? And then it sounds like you went to university.

B

Yeah, so the school itself was a college, so I stayed for. So I started at 15 and I left at like 19. So I stayed and I did my GCSEs, which is, I'm not sure what American version is the thing you do when you're 16 and then the thing when you do when you're 18. I stayed till that there. And then when you go to university to study art. They quite often, unless you've just, you know, you're a prodigy and you have this amazing portfolio that's really clear that you are a painter or whatever, you do a course which is a one year course called a foundation course. And so it teaches you, you can just do like lots of different things and then you can decide what your specialism is. And so when I did that I discovered like everything I made was physical in the world 3D. And so I was like, there's no point in me doing, I don't know, a computer based thing or graphics or whatever. So I went and studied fine arts culture. So it meant I could just go and carry on my play school that I was doing, you know, in this setting and just keep on going.

A

At university, were you suddenly able to turn everything around in terms of grades? Because that first year I'm assuming there would still be quite a bit of reading and writing.

B

Yeah, there is. But it's weird because that I think this is where it's always been really confusing. I love, I love reading. Well, I didn't used to, but I love reading. I love it a lot. I read every night and I think it's. For me, I think that all of the brain stuff is about getting the thought out. I don't know how much I absorb. I look at words and I understand them. I don't know how much goes in. But I think when I had to do all of my writing, I essentially, my mum basically was my scribe. So I would say, oh, what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to do this. And then as soon as I would make my fingers do the typing bit, it would go poof. It just disappeared.

A

Yeah, yeah.

B

You know, and it's too much motor skills, I think.

A

What about when you were really interested in something, would it also go poof?

B

Yeah. As soon as I try and tell my hands to do the. The action of conveying language onto a screen or a computer or p. Piece of paper, it would just. I think it's like to t. I get it when I do exercise, if in my exercise classes I cannot move, follow the instructions of the, of the, like the, the movement. And then you're supposed to count how many rounds or something and I'm like, oh. And then you. And then in that you've also. And I have. I'm like, no, I'm. I don't know. I don't. I have to go at the back to follow it because I can't. It's too many it's like if I think one thought, one part of the part of my brain like shuts down or something. It's like they only can do shuts the valve of the other bit or something.

A

That is so interesting. I can really relate to that. I'm. I'm wondering though, can you talk it?

B

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I can talk it fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I'll be like, ah. What I'm trying to say is. And then I'll go to do it. And I'm like, what the hell did. I just. I cannot get, you know, I cannot write it. I can't get it down. So my mom, bless her, she's very clever. She was a English university graduate. She. I think she taught at English University. So she's very, very clever. But you know, this art side of it, like, it's another world. And even now, still, I've done quite a lot reading with it and I'm like, okay, what are you saying? It's really, it's very philosophical. It's really complicated conceptual stuff, which is like, it's just. And you think it and you're like, right. And it. Oh, it's really mind boggling, you know, to try and dissect. Yes. Very difficult to take on. So that is tricky. I think when I left and I realized you could make things and you don't have to go through the trauma of that all the time. That was a joy.

A

Yeah. How are you with memorizing?

B

I can't. Don't have a memory. I have. My husband tells me we have had the most wild life. We have done so many amazing. I've been with him since I was 23. We have traveled so many places and been to so many crazy things. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we did that. And I'm like, did we? Yeah, I'm like, oh, okay. Right. I just, I. I like, I have a conveyor bra belt brain and you know, it drops off for new things to come on. And that's just. I just have to accept I don't have it.

A

You know, Ella, what I find so fascinating is I can completely relate to what you're saying that whole poof moment. But what I will tell you is I didn't have that when I was younger.

B

Oh, really? Yeah.

A

And I. So I really think it's as estrogen starts bouncing around you get older that all of a sudden I have new challenges that I didn't have before.

B

Yeah.

A

But I bet you it's. I'm not as creative as you are, I think I'm. I'm highly creative in a different way. So my creativity is more about thoughts versus physical things and the way I put things together. But what's happened as I've gotten older is I can now relate to what you are saying where I will have this amazing idea and then I go sit down to put it. I don't even know what happened to it.

B

What was I even thinking about?

A

And sometimes I can't even talk it because my brain is moving too fast for me to even be able to capture what brilliant. So I can relate.

B

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so, so difficult, isn't it? It's so like. Yeah, you've got to think the thought long enough for it to. And it's like. And it's. And it's got no logic on the value of the thought at all. It has no higher. You know, there's no status with which one will or will not bloody stick. Yeah, it's very, very frustrating. I think that's also probably why I feel so comfortable in the physicality, you know, in physical space. Because also as well, I have real muscle memory. I can do things without really having to think about it. Me too. You know, and. And it's that kind of tactile. I think it gets filed somewhere else. It's like, you know, it's, it's, it's a. It's a real thing. So it kind of. You take it on more or something.

A

You know, I've always joked around about, like when I was a kid, my father, I would be, you know, dramatic, and my father would say, you should be on a soap opera. And I would think, I would love to be on a soap opera. But I, even at that young age, I was probably. Yeah, I remember thinking. But I could never, ever memorize those lines. And I've since worked with a soap opera star and what she's able to do, but it would take her nine hours a day of memorizing lines. I just. So her brain works much better than my brain does. But what I've always thought is, well, but if you want it actually to be on camera, you could do something like you could be, you know, a chef on tv.

B

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A

Kind of what you're saying, you wouldn't need to memorize anything, right? It's like, oh, you pour this in here and then you measure it.

B

Yeah, yeah.

A

That doesn't require memorizing.

B

I did do some tv, actually. I did a couple of series of a TV show. And and it was. And it. What was great was they would say to you, ella, why are you making this? And I would just have to reply with the question that they'd asked. And I think I am making this because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I didn't have to, you know, memorize anything. Great. But it was funny because they kept on saying, and why are you doing this? And I'm like, I'm not really sure. They're like, you say that all the time. It's like. Because it's true. I don't do. I don't know. I have to. I can't verbalize what I'm doing before doing it, because I need to do it to find out what happens.

A

Right.

B

And so to then explain before I've done something, what I'm doing. I'm like. But I don't. I will find out when it's. When it's happening. I don't know. I can't explain. So.

A

And then you can report it as it's actually happening. That's the prompt, right?

B

Yeah. But chainsaws are a bit noisy. They don't really work with microphones as well, so I couldn't really talk.

A

Oh, my gosh. So what, Ella, what would school have looked like for you if it had been built for a brain like yours?

B

Well, I. I know that feeling because I went into an environment that was a changed environment. So I know the feeling. And it felt like just Like a breath, you know, just. Just being. My memories of school is about all the things that were traumatic, and my memories of this college space that I went to was of all the joyful learning. I don't really remember what I was doing in the space or, you know, and so I think I obviously, now I have the language. I obviously was not masking when I went there. I obviously was focused on what they were saying because I wasn't trying to control all the other elements of everything else, you know? And I think if you're trying so, I mean, you can see it with all the kids and stuff. I know nowadays you, like, you're spending so long trying that what is the. What capacity is left for the learning bit? You know, there's this tiny little nugget of your capacity left when you've got all of this, like, social navigation, sensory navigation, you know, spatial navigate memory. Like, you've got to do all this stuff. Remember the memory, remember the remainder. Oh, you're still speaking, right? Oh, God. Okay, now what you say, you know, and you're like, so you think, and then you come home and you're just broken and, you know, and then if you're not in a, you know, neuro affirming household, why are you behaving like that? Yes, yes.

A

And then there's homework.

B

Yeah, yeah. My God. Yeah.

A

Okay.

B

Yeah.

A

So how did you go from fine art sculpture to picking up a chainsaw?

B

Like, who even thinks of that? Well, I have to credit the fact that my parents took me to places and gave me experience, you know, because they took me to Glastonbury Festival when I was younger and that experience, I saw something and I just. It was there and I just. I didn't really think anything of it. Didn't really, you know, and it was only like five years later when somebody said, right, would you like to work with a practicing artist or would you like to do a dissertation? I was like, I'll choose the hang. What? So I can hang out with an artist and keep a diary or I have to make a very long essay. And I was like, I will do the diary and the hanging out bit. Thanks. And. And I just, I. It's so weird. It's like, you know, sometimes you don't remember being the architect of your life. You know, I feel like the passenger sometimes, but things have happened where I obviously was active in that choice, but I don't remember thinking, oh, I know, I'm going to be a chainsaw.

A

What did you see as a child? Like, what was the thing that you saw that you didn't even know that it stuck? But it stuck.

B

So it was a really cool, massive sculpture. It was at the festival and it was a very, very large, giant tree ent. Like a tree creature person. And they were stomping on a real submerged car. So the car was like buried in the ground and it was stomping on it and it was planting a little baby acorn and it was a big tree spade had all been carved. And I remember thinking, like, that is really cool. That is just. And I took a photo of it on my disposable real camera and I printed it and I found the picture and I was like, yeah. And I remembered and it was just. It was just. I don't know, it was a. I just thought it was a really cool thing. And then I thought about who I'd like to work with and thought, well, I don't really want to go and work with a painter. I don't really want to go. And I thought, you know, I think that would be really cool if I could find them. So I decided to hunt them out and find them and see if I could hang out.

A

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So that was the artist that. Who had created that you saw as a child. Okay.

B

Okay.

A

So how did that lead to the chainsaw?

B

They are chainsaw artists. That's what they do. Yeah. So they made those big tree sculptures using chainsaws. And it was this, like. It was all because, like, their limbs were timber frame jointed, like, bolted. You know, it was real construction in wood on giant form. Yeah. And I just thought it was really cool. And I remembered it and sort of found them and didn't expect it to lead anywhere. I certainly didn't expect to get a job out of it. But we connected as people. He's really sweet, actually. He's always said, oh, I could always tell you we're gonna. You know, I always said you were gonna be the one that does something that makes it whatever, which is really sweet. So I think he obviously had a idea that when we met that there was something going on. And he gave me the. The chance to have a go on his saws. And I was like, okay. And they didn't intimidate me. They didn't make me feel scared. I was just intrigued as to what it was. And then I felt I did it and was like, oh, that's really easy. I can make this shape. And actually, what I made for the first thing I've ever done with a chainsaw wasn't actually too bad. And I know lots of people who've tried or make stuff, and they're. They can be quite rough. I mean, I'm saying this, I look at my old stuff, and it's pretty rough. But, you know, for a first ever try. Yeah, it was all right.

A

I mean, you didn't kill yourself with it. That's what I'd be worried about.

B

I know. Yeah. Yeah. I can't see people I love use chainsaws because it makes me feel sick. But I can use them happily. Okay, but why?

A

Literally, I had a rule. So we lived on six and a half acres in the country, and, you know, church trees were always falling down. There was always something. And the rule was, no. My husband, I would no chainsaw in the house. I was just terrified he was going to hack some limb off. So why chainsaw? Like, what is it about a chainsaw?

B

So I was tasked with this at the very end of my degree. So I'd spent nearly three years trying to connect with the material or find my practice or whatever. And I was kind of Looking, you know, this imposter syndrome when you look at other people and other people like, you know, know what they're doing or at least that's what you perceive anyway. And they always know they're a painter or they do whatever. And I would always meet these people and be like, I don't know, I don't know, like I liked or I liked welding. But actually it's quite similar in that you have a thought and you go, oh, I wonder if. And you're like, oh, that looks quite cool. So it's very direct and instant. But again, talk about the thoughts. A lot of making, you have to plan the thought, you have to plan the thing you're going to make and then you have this really long winded process and you have to be sure that the thing that you want at the end is definitely what you want. Because this process is really long winded. You know, whether it's ceramics, whether it's like tapestry, you know, you've got to really know in advance what you're doing. And because I don't. It was really either. So many mistakes, so many, so much money on stuff that I don't want to do. You get the end of it and go, well, that's rubbish, you know, and think, oh, whereas with a chainsaw and with welding you have a thought and the action and the result is immediate.

A

So do you plan, do you plan at all?

B

Briefly, more for the clients than me. Wow. Yes.

A

And so what does it feel like to carve this big block of wood into something with a chainsaw?

B

I think, I mean, have you ever experienced, experienced like flow state?

A

Of course, but not with a chainsaw. That would be the last time I

B

would be flowing, but that is the state. So I know lots of carvers and, and like a lot of amazing carvers and they're so, I mean we are all a variety of all shapes and sizes and ways of doing things. You know, there's no one way of doing it. And some people grit, you know, like when painters and drawers, when they do realistic stuff, they grid out, you know, re like really map it out, you know, which is amazing. And this get the stuff they make is incredible. But I, if I have to do that, I am so disconnected from the moment. I am stopping, starting, stopping, starting looking, stopping, starting, thinking, stopping, you know, so the, the, the. It's so jolty and, and unnatural and unflowing that I really dislike it. And I think so for me I don't make like hyper realistic things, mainly because it doesn't Feel very nice to make them. And I'm not as good as, you know, other people are because that's their focus. They can do that, whereas I find that really clunky. And so for me, it's like flowing with the tree and finding, you know, and starting a carton, seeing where it ends and, you know, and discovering what that is and where it's going to go. So I'll have, like a rough idea, like, okay, you want it to be. It may say, if it's nature, I'll. I'll agree it's going to have certain things in it, but then within that, I'll always leave space so that I can play and layer it how I want. And sort of, you know, I think that. And that's when they're the best for me. I think that's when they look the best, is because I'm not fighting against the way that I work. So they've got a fluidity to it and a natural kind of, you know, they're very instinctively made. So it. I. I don't know, it just is one of those things where I discovered this way, and I still didn't know at this point I was adhd, but I discovered, I think it's like when you put on a pair of trousers and it fits perfectly, you go, oh, that is great.

A

You know, first time you did it, you just knew.

B

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just kept doing it.

A

How risky is it with anything?

B

It's like if you've got really sharp kitchen knife, if you don't know how to cut, it could be really risky. But actually, sometimes using a really blunt knife is more dangerous because then you're going to be pushing, you know, so it's only as risky as well, essentially. So actually, a chainsaw has a lot of safety mechanisms because it has a chain break. So anytime you'd get kickback, the chain break kicks on anyway. And then the trousers I wear are Kevlar, which means that if I was to cut it into it, it jams the saw immediately. So you couldn't cut your leg off because it would instantly jam. That said, there are obviously things you can. And actually all the trees treat, say. I know lots of tree surgeons, too. The ones that have had accidents are the ones that are using a top saw. So I use one that's got a handle here and a handle here. Okay, so you do that. Tree surgeons, because they have to, like, reach out, they'll have, like a one handled one which is just at the top. Yes. But because of that, there's no hand to click on the chain break, so that I would just kind of use that. Yeah, it just flicks out. And I know fair fewer people that have. That have injuries because of it. But I personally, you know, you're more. It's more dangerous to use an angle grinder than it is to use a chainsaw if you, if you know how to use it.

A

Okay. So at this point, there is no fear when you're using it that, oh, my God, I might cut my hand off. Like, you just know how to do it.

B

Yeah, yeah.

A

I would think too, that it's also high risk in another way in that you're dealing with these massive blocks of wood, like, basically a tree. And it must be a fortune to get those where you need to get them.

B

And so you.

A

Is it like baking where, you know, everybody thinks, like, they see this finished product, they're like, oh, my God, I could never do that. And really, what baking is. No, it's just fixing all your mistakes along the way.

B

Yeah, yeah. Well, kind. Yeah, yeah, it is, really. So I start fat because obviously, like, if you're doing clay, you build, you add on, and I'm starting with something at the finished size and reducing. So until I know where I'm at, I will start bulky and then I'll start kind of, you know, committing to more drastic cuts when I know more where I am. When I was. I have made a lot more mistakes when I was younger. You know, you're focused on this bit and you've not really thought about where the tip of the bar is and you've jabbed it in and cut the face off something, you know, so you're having to think all the time about, like, where's the end of the bar? Where's the base of the bar? Where's it going to? Is it going to hit your face? Is it. You know, you're sort of. So the assessments you're having to do all the time are endless. But again, I think that's. That's why I like that you can't have any other thoughts. You can't be wondering what, like, you know, because you have to be in the moment the whole time you're doing it. So again, I think it just doesn't allow your brain to run away with it. I mean, I still manage to somehow sometimes, but, you know, it doesn't allow you to sort of have too many other thoughts. So it's quite relaxing.

A

It almost sounds like you're a therapy.

B

Right? Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Exactly. And I, so I have kids. I realized. So over that, because I'm self employed and it's really difficult to manage childcare and whatever, I would take most of the summer off. And I realized at the end of it that I'm like getting a bit blue. And it's mainly because, like living in a neurodiverse household anyway is quite a lot. And then, you know, and no one's telling you you're fantastic. Everyone's like, ah, I hate this food, I hate this whatever.

A

Yes.

B

And then. But also as well, I get so much space and peace and, you know, kind of joy and there's a thought and an action. You know, it's. I have agency, I have, you know, so there's, there's all of these moments that actually I think parent, you don't get. So I think by the end of the summer holidays I'm like crawling to the end, sort of wishing to start back carving. Nothing to do with my kids.

A

Right.

B

It's just, it's a lot, It's a lot. But also how nice it is to carve it sort of, you know, it's one of those things that's joyful and

A

it's just, it's so big and it's so intense. It makes sense that you would fall into hyper focus there.

B

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It's really great. I mean, it used to, it has happened in the past again when I didn't really know I was doing. I'd get so fixated on like the foot. I'd realize I've made something that's teetering on a tiny little stick and you're like, oh God. You know, so there's things where my hyper focus needs reining in a bit sometimes.

A

How do you, how do you get up to these high spaces? Are you on some sort of a scaffolding thing?

B

Yeah, yeah. I have to. I mean, I'm very blessed. I, I have a lot of people in my household, in my family that are terrified of heights and thankfully I did not inherit that gene. So I'm my dad. It can't look at me sometimes he makes him feel sick. I have to, you know, I'm hanging off the edge of a scaffolding and reaching out and doing stuff with a chainsaw. Oh my God.

A

I'm just, I am fascinated by what you do. So, Ella, what is a trait that you had before that you always beat yourself up about that you now realize, oh, that's part of my ADHD brain, that today you'd actually call that an advantage. And before you used to think it was a flaw.

B

Well, I definitely used to get severe overwhelm and I think I. And then I used to be like, well you're a terrible person. Like other people can do this adulting and you know, tidying and like email replying and like why can't you? You're an idiot. You know, and sort of like. And then you try and explain it someone who doesn't understand you're a diversity and they're like we'll just reply. And you're like yeah, that sounds simple. I'd love to do that. I still can't. I'm still terrified and. And in static and can't do it. And it's not that I can't write the email, it's the act of starting to write the email.

A

Yes, absolutely.

B

It's when I actually do it I'm like oh for God's sake, I've been doing a month. That's. Why did I wait for a month? I had a horrible month and I could have just done that which. But you know, you don't learn those things. But I think what I am learning and I now see is that is. That is my brain communicating to me that I'm not looking after myself and I need to care for my needs.

A

Yes.

B

So I see it now as my internal voice talking to my external voice, you know. And so now I. So I work because it's so taxing. I do Monday, Wednesday, Friday on the tools and I tried to do Tuesday and Thursday as like my admin drawing all that stuff because there's so much. It kind of first started because of childcare but I also realized that that was actually really beneficial because I wouldn't blast and then die and then blast, you know, so it kind of more sustainable but also realized that like again being a parent there's a lot like you know, if you do all of the working where you're only working and then you do the children stuff where everyone is needing from you again. When is the you when is the recoup time at all? And I now realize that like my Tuesdays and Thursdays are admin but also I will go to the gym and I will do, you know, I will do my checking in with myself and make sure I've done my in, you know, my self care and hugging myself kind of thing with the things that I need so that I don't get to the point where I hate myself again and think I'm a terrible person because Actually, I know that those things are there because I just have. There's nothing left of me, you know? So I think I'm learning to see them as signals rather than, like, negative traits.

A

Yes, yes. And it sounds like you're also figuring out strategies that actually work for your brain.

B

Yeah, yeah.

A

And beating yourself up. You just create so much negative emotion around that thing. No wonder you're scared of emails. Right?

B

That's so ridiculous. But, yes, you know, and you know, you only know if you know, you say it someone else who gets it. They're like, me, too. And you say it someone else. They're like, what?

A

Yeah, absolutely. So, Ella, where can people find you if they want to know more about you and what you do? Well, I will say go to her Instagram. It's crazy.

B

Yeah. On my Instagram. Ella Fielding, sculptor. And then on my website as well, which is ellafielding.com and you can see me. There's loads of repeats of me on the. The Woodland Workshop. If you type it in, it's quite fun. And then I'm kind of just out and about, really carving. Sometimes they do competitions, sometimes they do other stuff. So, yeah, lots of different places there are competitions. Yeah, chainsaw competitions. They're great.

A

Oh, my gosh, I bet they are. I bet they're so fun to go to. Can you go to them and see them?

B

Yeah, yeah, you can go. And it's like, so spending my whole life being, you know, one of one. It's very nice when you go somewhere and you're like, oh, my God. We're. We're all. We're all, you know, more of me. Absolutely. Oh, my gosh.

A

I love that. Ella, thank you so much for spending time with us here today. This was so much fun.

B

Thank you very much.

A

So that's what I have for you for this week. If you like this episode with Ella, please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal is to change the conversation around adhd, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. And where else are you going to find a woman that is a chainsaw carver? She's got to have adhd, right?

B

Absolutely.

A

So thank you. You've been listening to the ADHD for Smartass Women podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka. Join us at adhd for smart women.com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for Smart Ad Women. And my patented you'd ADHD brain is a okay system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain. Before you go, if today's episode resonated with you and you've ever wondered whether ADHD might be part of your story, I put together a training on what ADHD actually looks like in women. You can find the link in the show notes. I'll see you there.