Neurodivergent Pride: Queer Identity, Masking, and Belonging (566)

A

VHD Rewired. For those with good intentions and a slightly wandering attention. Hosted by Eric Tilbers, adhd, an autistic therapist and coach. Here, stories and strategies from folks like you and me. You don't have to mask, you don't have to hide and let yourself be seen. ADHD Rewired. It's more than just a podcast. ADHD Rewired. It's coaching and community. We're wired for connection. You are not alone. ADHD Rewired. Find us at ADHD Rewired.com for the links and more. Starting is the hardest part, so let's get started.

B

Welcome back to another episode of ADHD Rewired. We are here with a special collaborative session. We are doing our annual Pride neurodivergent pride panel with Shimmer Shimmer coaching. And we're just going to introduce everyone on the panel now.

C

Okay, Savant, you're up.

D

Hello. My name is Savant.

B

I am.

D

I relate to the queer community just because I relate to being gay or gay pansexual. It is a spectrum that I'm learning as well as I am neurodivergent by way of autism. I have adhd. I have sensory motor OCD as well as savant syndrome.

C

Thank you. And Kristen.

E

My name is Kristen. I relate to the LGBTQ community as a lesbian. I have ADHD. I was also diagnosed with autism a couple weeks ago, so that is new to me. And I am also under the non binary umbrella. I identify as agender and my pronouns are they, them.

C

Yay, thank you. And I guess, Jill, you can go. Oh, actually, no, let's just. Everyone can do theirs. Eric, you go next.

B

Okay. I am ADHD and I am also bisexual. Maybe technically Pan, but I always still identify with the bisexual terminology. And I'll also share here that I also identify as polyamorous.

C

Awesome.

B

Which, by the way, last year I was like nervous to say that and I didn't.

C

So, yeah, I feel like you have a new disclosure. Everywhere we do this. So this is fun. I'm excited to see what comes out next year.

E

Jill.

C

I love that.

F

I love that. I am Jill and I'm an Audi hder. I was also diagnosed with a learning disability as a teenager and I identify as Pan. But you know, Eric, like you, that that kind of like buy to pan pipeline I think is like super real

C

for a lot of folks.

F

And so I've been, you know, sometimes I claim bi, but pan is definitely more authentic for me.

C

Awesome.

E

And hi, everyone. I'm Chris.

C

So I will be your Moderator. I may pop in here or there, but I am pansexual and I have adhd. Okay, let's get into the first question. So I know you all shared your queer neurodivergent identities already, but this question, actually, it's not typed there, but is more about how do those things intersect? So what is it like to live with the two together? Just helping people understand a little bit about your unique lived experience. And I know that oftentimes, like other intersectionalities, maybe not related to queer and neurodivergence may play into that. For example, for me, maybe being Asian. Uh, so if you want to share. If you want to share other identities in there as well, you don't need to choose just sharing a little bit to anchor us in your specific experience. And I'm going to shake things up in a golden different order. Kristen, you're up first.

E

Okay. Um, I would say the biggest way that my queerness and my ADHD have intersected is through the lifelong journey of masking versus unmasking. Um, I am a. Not a late bloomer, but a later bloomer in just about every category. I was not diagnosed with anything until my late 20s, nor did I know that I was a lesbian until I was 28, because I genuinely did not know. Um, long story short, my body and brain just did not think I was safe for me to know that about myself. And when I was recently diagnosed as autistic, my provider explained to me that she sees a lot more high masking and camouflaging behavior in autistic people of multiple other marginalized identities because the masking as a survival mechanism has been so deeply embedded on all the levels for so many years. So I think right now I'm learning that the work of being both queer and neurodivergent in the world is learning what does safety feel like to me and what does unmasking feel like in real time?

C

Yeah, I love that and I resonate with so much of it. I'm curious, when you said that you didn't know you're a lesbian until you're 28, did you identify as bi before or straight?

E

I did. I. I like to joke now that I am a retired bisexual. I thought I identified as BI for about 10 years before I decoded that what I felt was attraction to men was not. So that was a very long and winding journey to get to where I'm at now.

C

Oh, I love that. Thank you for sharing. Savant. You want to go next?

D

So I was not. I wasn't I wasn't diagnosed is the word. So I'm also semi verbal. So that's why I also speak with my hands. This is gesticulation, which is nothing but like mind body coherence. And whenever you have a verbal disability, it kind of takes on its own form. So if I were to stop using my hands, we'd start being able to see that my voice gets a little crazy. But I did not know that I was high masking until I was 30, technically 32. I found out that my neurodivergency was spilling out right at the end of 31. I was in horrible burnout and didn't know. But it's interesting because I've always felt odd about calling myself gay. I've always told people it's easier for me to tell people I'm black. It's easier for me to tell people I'm gay. They see and then they don't have to think too much. But whenever I started to understand like number one, I feel like just a spirit floating around in the body. Then to unmasker autism and then all your other stuff, you're like, oh, so now it makes sense that even trying to still to this day put myself under gay and black, I'm understanding that there's a cocoon or a cage that I've accidentally accepted that I'm like slowly breaking out of. So that's where we are right now.

C

I love that. Thank you for sharing. And I also resonate with a lot of what you're saying. Jill, you are up next.

F

Amazing. Yeah, a lot of this resonates I, for me, my, you know, my neurodivergence and my queer identity, I think like Nick Walker's work on neuro queer and like being neuro queer and neuroqueering has really resonated with me. Just this idea that the way that I move through the world, the way that I show up is subverting norms in a lot of different ways. And, and so it's, it's been, I mean it's an ongoing process, I think, like I'm always kind of creating my identity and my relationship with masking is, you know, kind of a love hate relationship with my masks. And I'm still learning, you know, what they are, what they look like, what I, you know, what I want to hold on to intentionally or not. But you know, I've, I've identified as queer for, oh gosh, probably like 15, 20 years now and, and identifying as neurodivergent is far more recent. Even though I knew that I had a learning disability. It was something that I kind of put in the background and. But the once I was able to kind of see that as a neuro queer identity and put them together resonated a lot more. And so that work has really meant a lot to me and, and I, I definitely see myself as, as neuro queer.

C

I love that. And I'm excited that you guys are all bringing up masking and to the people asking in the chat too, masking is question number three. So we will get there. Eric.

B

Oh, well, I, like, I've known. I kind of connected and knew that I was not straight when I was like, probably like five. I just always kind of knew. But then after coming out to my parents, I was bi at 14. It was not. It wasn't like a hatred response, but it was definitely not an accepting response. I mean, and it was also a clearly misunderstood response as my dad came home with a couple Playboy magazines the next day. Which is like, comically tragic to me when I think about that. It's just like, oh, dad. So I kind of, like, I kind of stepped back into the closet for many years. Always. People that I was close with, I always shared, but it wasn't until kind of post divorce, during COVID or I'm just like, you know, I am open and value vulnerability in all other aspects of my life. Why am I not being open and like, about my sexuality? And so I came out my podcast a number of years ago and been, you know, really, I think, stepping so much more into my, my sexuality, my identity, even, like. And I'm still kind of figuring out my, like, gender identity because it's like, I never, like, whenever someone's like, hey, bro, I'm like, who are you talking to?

F

Right?

B

Like, I don't reconnect to that at all. But, like, so I don't know. It's a really interest. Been an interesting journey and I think too that part of where the, the intersection for me is also getting diagnosed autistic last year after being really, really deep in burnout due to like, masking. So, like, intense. I didn't even realize that I was doing it, that it. One of the reasons I think that intersection is lovely is especially in some of the queer and poly and kink communities, which are adjacent to a lot of the queer communities. Like, communication is as a. It's necessary and like, you can't do the, like, unspoken thing. Like, they'll fill. They'll get it.

C

They'll know.

B

It's like, no, it's like, let's be really clear about our communication. And that works super well for me. And I just wish like every relationship in my life was like that where there wasn't guessing. Um, because it's just like, just say what you think and let's communicate because it makes everything easier.

C

Yeah, I love that I had so many thoughts come up as you were speaking. And then also it links to what someone else is saying in the chat. But I really resonate with like going back into the closet. So I came out when I was 22, but every time I was in a relationship with a man, my mom would be like, oh, you're straight again. Or my dad would be like, oh, you're straight again. And then now I am, for the first time in my entire life, like since adult life, I'm dating a woman. Which actually here, Aries here, the ADHD entrepreneur, shout out to her. Yeah, she's like, it's like I came out all over again. She was like all confused about the whole thing and she. So that back in and out of the closet is such a relatable experience for me for being pan or I think just by slash pan. And I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 28. So it's interesting because I feel like with both of them I'm like constantly coming in and out of the closet or constantly disclosing to people. And as your life changes, I feel like how people understand it or how they project onto you will change with what they see from you as well. Thank you everyone for sharing that introduction. Let's pop into the second question. Okay, so this one we're going to start with Jill. How have heteronormative expectations or neurotypical expectations impacted you?

F

Yeah, how haven't they? You know, like, this is super real. But you know, what comes to mind is, you know, I'm, I'm also child free and building, you know, child free community and, and so that's one of the ways that I definitely have subverted, you know, the, the heteronormative expectations. I, I am also married to a CIS man. And so, you know, the, the queering of, of my life is also complicated for some folks from the outside. But, but definitely being child free and, and prioritizing, you know, other aspects of my life and, and neurotypical expectations, how that has affected me, that, you know, that's a really interesting one. Definitely I would say mostly at work. It's, it's the way that I started to show up in my career 10 years ago. I just Didn't. Things just didn't make sense to me. A lot of the expectations, the unwritten norms, the things were. It just felt like I was missing something. And it has felt like I've been missing something for my whole career until I really went into solopreneurship full fully last year. And that's a common experience for neurodivergent folks, I think, for a lot of reasons. But, you know, the, the way that we're expected to show up at work, especially because I worked in the nonprofit space, the social justice space, sometimes the, the cognitive dissonance that I would see and witness and the, the hypocrisy around some of the work that's being done, I found it really difficult to reconcile. And that was really, really stressful. It just didn't make sense to me why we would say one thing in one way and the research would say one thing in one way and then we would do another. And so these kinds of expectations have impacted my career trajectory and conversations with family. I've finally stopped being asked when I'm going to have kids, so that's a win. But I would say that those are the ways that heteronormative and neurotypical expectations have impacted me the most.

C

Yeah, and I love what you said about solopreneurship and how I think a lot of us didn't feel like we fit in other more typical places and. Or I don't know if typical is the right word, but you know what I mean? And so we just created our own because now when I look at us here, all of us have non traditional roots.

E

So.

C

So yes, thank you for sharing that, Eric. You can go next.

B

No, it's. It's really interesting because I. Until, I don't know, a couple years ago, for me, it was always like, I never even thought that having a. Being in an actual, like, relationship with a man was even an option. I was just like, it's this thing I do secretly on the side and it's like, you know, and. But I'll date women because that's like just what society expects. And just like over the last few years, just like being open to that has just been really like. I just, I love, I really love who I've been becoming as I've been stepping more and more into my queer identity, where it just feels so much more of like. Yes, like, this is like, I've been like, I've been doing my nails a lot lately, and I really love it because it's just like, I don't know, there's something about like, just not like I, it's like that, that idea of I just don't have the time, energy or bandwidth to not be who I am. Right. And you know, if I am in a, you know, a straight appearing relationship, it's like I want to make sure people don't actually think I'm straight because, like, I'm not. Right. So I think that that's been like the, the, you know, one of the big things. And like when I was like growing up and like I didn't, I got made fun of in middle school. Like, you know, it's the what in the 80s and 90s, what was the, you know, the most popular insult? You're gay, right? And actually has I. There was someone in my middle school who literally wrote and spray paint on the side of my middle school building. Tivers is gay. Right? So like mean stuff. And it's just like, you know, they weren't completely wrong. But that was still mean though. So, you know, it's like the idea of, oh, if you're not, like, if you're not a bro, you must be gay. And it's just like I, you know, so I don't know, I've just been trying to not unlearn, just like push against the norms because that always works for me. You know, it's like whether it's in my, with my neurodivergence or, you know, or my sexuality, it's like I can only be me. And that's the best version of me. Who you'll ever get is me being fully me, the weird queerdo that I am.

C

I love that. And I don't know how everyone's doing those exploding hearts, but there's all sorts of hearts flying up here. And your nails are great. Kristen, you're up.

E

Yes, well, I definitely can't answer this question without touching on my experience with religious trauma. They say. Laughing I From a very, very young age, I think a lot of young, queer and neurodivergent kids pick up on this narrative that we are inherently wrong or bad somehow, but we can't put our finger on what it is because we were young, undiagnosed people and we didn't have, for whatever reason, you know, masking or lack of access to diagnoses and support. We just didn't know why we were different. And I know that for me, my family was not religious, but I wandered into church with a friend of mine when I was about 12. So peak feral middle schooler weirdness starting to Feel very strange in my skin and thinking, there's something wrong with me, but I don't know why. And then, lo and behold, the big thesis of this institution is, did you know there's something wrong with you inherently? And I was like, yes, yes, I did know that. I did know that. Tell me more. Do you have the solution?

C

And they were like, yes.

E

So very quickly that became the access that my world turned on was, you know, my faith in this religious tradition. And that provided a lot of things that my neurodivergent brain needed to thrive, like structure and an environment where community was guaranteed. But then, of course, this also led to the suppression of pretty much every other aspect of who I am as a person. So I think what eventually helped me heal and unmask both my queerness and my neurodivergence was learning that I am inherently good and that I do not need to be fixed at a fundamental level. We are good at our core. And, yeah, I think everything, all of the unmasking and everything that came after had to be built on that. It was almost like I had to open this, like, series of doors where my truth was at the center of this maze. Both my queerness and my audi hdness, I had to, like, open all these locked doors to get there. And the first door that I had to unlock. And the truth that I had to believe was I am inherently good and I am going to be safe to look inward and learn these things about myself.

C

Wow. I. I love that. And isn't it incredible that now you reach, like, hundreds of thousands of people and you're like, part of their journey now? Like, if you just look back at little Kristen.

E

Oh, yes, truly. Like, where I am now would send, like, middle and high school Kristin into a comma. Truly.

C

Thank you for sharing, Savant.

D

I'm with you on the religious trauma. Yeah. So I have the same kind of upbringing. I'm from Houston, Texas, so I'm Christian based, as I like to call it, even though now I'm spiritually ambidextrous. But I will go ahead and tell you, it definitely made unmasking Carter. It made living in secret really hard because I never even realized that church is kind of built to make sure that even when you're alone, you still feel like you have the government watching you. Like, God is truly the government. But it's interesting because now I look at myself and especially with a lot of my savant syndrome really does something different to a lot of this stuff going on up here. So there's A lot of things that I didn't realize that when people say programming, it's so true, even to the point of I really have just been thinking I'm truly autistic and that ADHD was this, like, lol. I would say probably within the last month have I come to the first time. I'm 33. I found out that I was autistic at 32, and here it is now I'm like, oh, ADHD burnout. You and me have been best friends our whole life. And I am now sitting here in a pile worth of stuff like, oh, this stuff is real. And trying to pretend that you're neurotypical and having this like, high masking Persona, it really does somehow inhibit the idea of, like, I can't see me burning. And it took me to again unmask for me to say, oh, yeah, from everyone. That's kind of helped raise me. The idea has always been, you know, we. We have nothing to show. There's nothing going on. And I've been doing this for so long, especially again, masking a verbal kind of thing where, again, I'm black, I'm gay, and I'm from the South. So this idea of, like, you being soft, you being romantic, you being queer, you don't even. And that's the idea. Even when it comes down to, like, the dichotomy in the black community, you can be gay, you can't be bi. I will go ahead and tell you, I've seen people not make it in our community and I'm just like, well, you can be right. And I realized, oh, I have to ask that to other people still autism, I think so. Just trying to really understand that my observer brain didn't know that it was always outward and never facing back inward. And so having to understand that this whole mirror portion of my life that's kind of unmasking is, you know, it's. It's a little awkward because I am turning my mask a little bit more outwards so everyone can see me so we can all go through this journey together. But I will go ahead and tell you, I have my times too, where I'm like, you want to unmask and cry? And I'm like, nope, I'm neurotypical. At least until tomorrow. So this is again where we are right now.

C

Oi, Sivan, can you share a bit more about your sentence around, like, you can be gay, but you can't be bi. I was having this conversation this morning, so I want to hear where that comes from. And, like, if you can just share a bit more. More context.

D

Yes. People do not like the fact that there aren't boxes. Even when you come to the idea of like LGBTQIA plus, you would think by now we would have gotten rid of the letters and just like, look, the rainbow. We get it. No, I think words are such a weird, like, contractual thing that especially in the English language, English is nothing but contracts. So I think whenever people try to go, you can be gay. In our society of black queerness, being a man and still, at the very least being with a man, that mask for mask thing is very heavy. But whenever you try to go back and forth, I won't lie, because of a lot of the stigma around black K communities. You have hiv, you have trans, and I mean, you just have so many of us on the front line getting our butts whooped that when it comes to those dichotomies of women or femme in specifically, I can understand why the feminine divine and feminine masculine. I mean the feminine divine and like the masculine divine in the black community. So there's just not as much of a bridge of like, someone's able to be like, I sleep with this person and that person and I can remain myself. Because if people don't know how to clock you today, they don't know how to really react if something different is going tomorrow and people can't handle your change because then they have to adjust and people don't like to adjust in present time is my sentence to that.

C

Oh, I think. Thank you for sharing that. That was really helpful. And I saw a lot of resonating in the chat as well. Thank you guys all. That was. That was awesome.

B

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C

Orion, do you want to move to the next slide? Okay, this is the one people have been waiting for around masking. So let's start with Eric. How have you navigated masking either or all identities at home and work? And I know in the chat someone asked you like, I guess like how you navigate it, I guess like positively like any tips, tools like that kind of thing to help people move to the next stage of wherever they're at.

B

I think anytime for myself anyways, anytime that I'm trying to understand anything, I do what my, my therapist at the time told me, well, that's a very autistic approach. And that's like when I was learning about like whether it was trauma or polyamory or you know, neurotypos, I will literally for like a year or two read books that are nothing but that topic. And so when, you know, what's interesting for me is that I actually was specializing in autism 15 plus years ago. My son was then diagnosed when he was 2. And after his diagnosis I kind of stepped away from it because it was kind of too close to home. But I always kind of related to autism. I think I had some blind spots. So whenever I would fill out those own assessments, I was always just kind of missing it. But there was pieces that I was not aware of. And so I think that for me, part of navigating the unmasking process, you know, I would recommend anyone who has not read any of Devin Price's books to just devour them because it's, it's, you know, he's almost like the Brene Brown of like the queer community. Like he, like they put words to the things we've all felt but weren't quite sure how to like express. And this, this idea that I find so fascinating that I'm finding is so common is that as especially ADHDers who are learning that they are also autistic are finding that as this discovery of that happens, that more and more of their autistic traits are actually kind of coming out and it's kind of wild. And on many fronts it's been super positive. On other fronts it's been, it's been challenging. Like I had, about six months ago or so I had what I would say with my first like legit autistic meltdown where like I, and it like, it scared me actually. You know, it was like I was just overstimulated and my sensory, my nervous system was just like my brain just couldn't handle what was happening. And you know, being a, both a clinician and a parent of an Audi HD ER, who has worked with people and my son who when they get in this like really intense overload would like engage in like self hitting. And I always just like my heart always broke when I saw that and I was just like, oh, what is happening? That's like, that's driving me to do that. And then about six months ago I was that person and it was like, it was scary and it was just like I, you know, so the unmasking process for me, you know, it has been a process of true like severe burnout recovery because it was, you know, people in my community know this too is that like I was, about a year or so ago I was pretty close to like actually walking away from my business because like I was just. My mental health was not great as I was kind of going through this unmasking and doing a lot of trauma work and you know, and I had a bunch of like relationships, like professional relationships that you know, kind of soured because, you know, I got feedback that I reach out mostly when I want something. And it was fair feedback. It hurt to hear, but it was fair feedback. And it's like that recognition of like, oh, like reaching out to people just to maintain relationships. I, I find that almost like work and it's like it takes a lot of my social battery. And so for me now it's like with that awareness of it, I don't pretend about that anymore. Like I'm just like, yeah, I'll call you tonight if I have any energy left, you know. So I think that. And even like in my, my business, like I've, you know, I had a bigger team a while back and I realized that like after like a team meeting which is kind of less structured, that like I was just like exhausted afterwards where like when I'm like leading a group, like my coaching groups, like I know the agenda, I know how this goes. Like, so to me that was energizing. But when it's a little bit more of like this Collaborative process and decisions are being made. And like, all those, like, real time sort of executive functions I wrote, like, I didn't have the capacity for it. And so, like, I kind of stopped, like, having meetings with my team for a while. And, like, it just kind of been shrinking while I'm been allowing my nervous system to heal. And it's been. It's been a process. And part of that, that process has been I've been doing a lot of meditation. I'm like, at like 145 consecutive days of meditation. And that's like. I know, right? Thank you. And so it's. It's been. I mean, really, I would say over the last five years, it has been a journey of. Of unmasking and coming into who I am. And it's been hard and worth it.

C

I love that. So I heard the meditation as one of the tips that you have. And it sounds like also maybe you and your son have gotten some maybe bonding through this.

B

Yes, we. Especially in the evening when he's getting ready for bed, we like to have our weird time together. Or we basically, we just like, stim together, like in bed while he's, you know, like, winding down. And it's. And we love it. And it's just like. It just makes me really happy. And like. And I love that his, like, he is a friend group now and, like, they're mostly queer. And I love that too.

C

I love it. Thank you for sharing. We'll just switch up the order of it. Not because I don't remember the order, but savant.

B

And it's okay if you don't, by the way. We all get it.

D

Masking is kind of my thing. So one of the first things that set off my specialist whenever I was diagnosed, she said you have a lot of abilities that most of the people she diagnosed didn't have. And I didn't know any. I didn't know anything. I just was like, someone helped. The world is kind of changing before my eyes, and everyone is not reacting

B

the way that I thought.

D

For me, my unmasking followed me around my whole life because there are very specific things that would happen throughout my life that I never knew were unmasking. But mines are a lot more like neurological. So, for instance, I have what's called the peanut butter feeling. Whenever I'm outside of my mask, the pace of time, the way that I perceive it feels different. And I didn't know that was a thing. I would always say that the world felt like it was going through peanut butter, but because that was the correct pace that I was moving too fast through. So for me, I had always known that I had those moments in life of being like, is anyone else see this? Anyone else feel this? Also, if you've never been outside and seen the literal outside get brighter, and you're like, is this the rapture? And no one else moves. And I was like, okay, I don't know what's happening. But this used to happen to me maybe once or twice a year. And I could ignore it. Right before I was diagnosed, it was happening, like, once, once every other day. And that's when I knew that I needed help. So then the diagnostic specialist, that specialist that I had, I worked with someone at. Oh, I have to remember who did my diagnosis. But I will tell you that the woman was specifically trained for people who did it. And specifically I was in musical theater. So musical theater for me is what taught me how to mask in, like, a very, like, boot camp way. My therapist said, had you not, had you been spotted at a young age, she said you would have. You probably like, did we do we think, like, am I diagnosed at a level one? Yes. Whenever. Whenever.

C

Hello.

D

Fast unmasking. Whenever. Sorry. Whenever I finally unmask, you can see everything. But I will go ahead and tell you that the cognitive understanding of how I mask, even from, like, holding my stomach in so you don't actually hear the fact that I need my hands to keep me on track whenever I'm speaking. But even, like, understanding that, even unlocking my eyes from the screen right now helped me unmask. I've been able to, like, really quantify those ideas, and I've been able to help other autistics and some other people on the neurodivergent spectrum unmasked. But I will go ahead and tell you unmasking is not cool. And being gay. And again, the gay boys in New York City, I think they're hot. They see me and they're like, oh. And then they get this, and they're like, wait. And so it makes it a little harder for me sometimes to know, like, where do I start? My mask goes very, very low. People call it, like, my regressive state that I have access to. But I will go ahead and tell people, like, for me, I. I think I'm just being me, and I'm really comfortable being out. But I do sometimes feel like I'm a little too excited. So, you know, you kind of go back in. You try to play the like, oh, I'm cool and I'm aloft and sure. You guys are speaking social terms that I can make faces that make me look like I know what you're talking about, but whatever a bear crawl is, is sure. I just kind of like, wait for people to, like, clue me in and I'm like, did they catch me? I have yet to be caught unless I speak, so stay silent.

C

I love it. And you definitely shouldn't stay silent. Listening to you speak is such a joyful experience. Experience I just wanted to share. I got, like, little goosebumps a couple times when you were speaking, so thank you for that.

B

If anyone ever tells you you're too much, those are the wrong people.

C

Exactly. Kristen.

F

Yes.

E

So what. What have I not unmasked over the last, like, two years of my life? Just like, casually blowing up my life and starting over. The first thing that springs to mind is that unmasking as a process will very quickly act as a litmus test for who your safest people are. I know that for me, when I went on my big, like, self discovery coming out as a lesbian journey last year, I feel like this story could also apply to unmasking neurodiversions as well. But some of the my closest friends to me were quite angry because I had been authentic with inauthentic with them. They said, you, what the heck? Like, you've been gay this whole time. What? Like, you hid this from me and you were inauthentic and you were deceptive and dishonest. And I did not know how to explain to someone who had never experienced, like, repression or masking like, my dude. I did not know this was something that my conscious mind hid from me. And it was a very quick reckoning of, okay, who is safe in my friend group for me in this moment. And that was very, very tough. I kind of had to unlearn this accusation that I was somehow like a master manipulator and I had deceived all of my friends. I'm laughing, but it was very sad. We. I'm laughing and coping. And I think one of the ways that I have evolved my relationship with that is thinking about masking kind of as a drag performance. Like, it's because it's not like you're being inauthentic necessarily. Like, it is a Persona that is not how you exist authentically if you were relaxed. But there is a nugget of you in it when you are masking. And that also reminds me of something my new therapist suggested to me recently while I've been on this journey of learning what unmasking Feels like is to draw a picture of what you look like when you're masking versus not. And I thought about that, and I was like, okay, if I had to. I have not done my therapy homework yet. I have not done this drawing, but I know it would. What it would look like if I drew my masking self. It would be very colorful drag makeup, like, like, so over the top. Trying really, really hard to be charismatic and theatrical and likable.

C

Like, hi, please like me.

E

I have all the energy in the world, and I'm so chipper, and I promise you'll like me. That's Kristen Masking and another tool that has been very, very helpful to me at honestly, the beginning of my unmasking journey. Like, I was diagnosed as autistic, like, five seconds ago. Is just starting to name. Exactly what does masking feel like in your body? Like, somatically, I know that for me, it feels like my face starts to hurt because I'm making these enormous facial expressions to try to be entertaining. It feels like I'm not breathing normal. Like, I'm doing it right now. I feel like I need to, like. I briefly took a, like, a speech class in high school, and my teacher told me, like, Kristen, did you know that at the end of every sentence, you go because you're not breathing while you're speaking? So that's a big part of my unmasking is learning how to breathe again. So I would really recommend that write it down in a list. Like, when I am masking, what does my body feel like? Like, maybe your shoulders get really tense. I know that's another big thing for me as well is, like, I just, like, start to go like this. So I just need to, like, go like that and take a big, deep breath out and just relax my face. I don't have to make the world's biggest golden retriever faces all the time. I will still be lovable.

C

I love that. And you put that so well into words. I also forget to breathe all the time and have been called out by teachers so many times, they literally yell breathe at me. So I'm glad that not the only one out there. Jill.

F

Yes. The hurting smile of the mask is so real. Oh, that's. Yeah, that's a good indicator. That's a good physical indicator. And kind of that. That tightness, that feeling. A lot of what you folks have shared definitely resonates. What came to mind when I first saw this question is alcohol. Alcohol and drugs and how that. How they have played a, like, front and center. Role in, in my mask through. Throughout my life for, you know, for the longest time, certainly mostly with my neurodivergence rather than my queerness that, you know, all my friends were queer in, in university and, and I've, you know, I've never really felt particularly, you know, in the closet about it particularly. It's, it's, it's, you know, it, it's something that I like to think of as being obvious about me and it's not something that I cover up in any way or have ever done so intentionally. But my, my, my neurodivergence for sure, and an alcohol has, has played a big role in, in my mask and unmasking that is really challenging. And it's something that I'm really only starting to skim the surface on now. Like, who am I when I don't use alcohol and drugs to feel comfortable?

B

And

F

it's, it's a really. Yeah, it's a really challenging space. And I think that it's not talked about enough in both the neurodivergent or the, the queer communities, you know, where, where those, where those types of tools and strategies are used. And, and so that's, that's really where I see my mask coming out the most. But I think also what comes up for me is that I think I have been protected from masking in a lot of ways because of my, my whiteness, my cisness, my. And my socioeconomic status primarily, I would say, is the most significant thing that has protected me. I can, you know, I can move through spaces really safely and easily and be accepted because of those things. Those things are often, you know, where people are looking for comfort. Like, okay, you're like us. You're, you know, you're, you know, you kind of are similar enough, even if you're, you know, maybe a bit different. Being from the same socioeconomic background and being white and being CIS creates that level of safety and comfort that has, has allowed me to. Not necessarily feel like I, I have to consciously mask too much. But again, where it really does show up is in social situations with drinking. And so I think that conversation around alcohol and the role that it plays in our communities is a really important one. And people are definitely talking about it, but I think that it can be explored a lot more.

C

Yeah, you touch on so many important topics. I wish we had, like, a podcast episode for each of them, but we are three minutes away from the end of it. So what I am going to do is. Orion, can you go to the last question also? This is a low score of. Sorry. The one right before getting through three questions is the lowest score, which means it's the highest score that a panel has ever gotten. So you guys crushed it. Yes. So I am going to make a challenge that everyone is going to give one sentence to answer this question. If it's two, it's fine. But try to go to one sentence. What is one thing that you wish? Let's say if you could go back to and talk to the younger you who just either got diagnosed, came out, whatever you want to define it, just someone who is in a way earlier space than you are now, what would you say? What say to that person? Because there might be that person in this audience or listening to ADHD rewired right now. And I would say Eric looks the most ready. I do you have a ready face. I guess.

E

I don't know if you're masking.

B

It's funny when you were talking, Gil, when you were talking earlier about, like, the. Your face hurting from smiling, and that's the mask that resonated so much. I remember, like, having people, like, say to me, like, you just are such a happy person. And, like, I'm just thinking, like, oh, I actually know what was going on in my mind right now. So, yeah, I definitely related to that. So something that I wish that someone had told me when I was diagnosed. Related to being queer or related to just like

C

an affirmation. Word of advice. Something positive. It's not very strict rules.

B

I would say it's just be completely you and don't worry about your mother.

C

I love it. Kristen,

E

you're safe. People are out there. Don't give up.

C

I love that. Jill,

F

there's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken, and you don't need to be fixed.

C

Sivan,

D

neurodivergence and divinity aren't too far away from each other. Beware.

C

Okay, mic drop. Let's end it on that one. That was great. You all crushed it. Thank you. Thank you so much for being awesome. My face does hurt from smiling, but I was not masking. Those were real smiles. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being a panelist. We are at the very end of our time, so everything will be sent out afterwards. It'll also be on ADHD rewired. Eric, would you like to say anything to close the podcast episode?

B

Sure. Yeah. Thank you. And thanks for listening and for tuning in and I will just. And I'll drop a link to Shimmer in the show. Notes of the episode and happy pride everyone go out there and be as gay as possible.

C

Happy pride. Bye everyone.

A

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