Summary10 min read

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Episode: Tommy Lee (July 22, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the extraordinary, chaotic, and often vulnerable life of Tommy Lee—Motley Crue drummer and rock icon. With Dax Shepard, Monica Padman, and Dr. Judd Brewer, Tommy reflects on his youth, the rise of Motley Crue, battles with addiction, personal growth, and what it means to age as a rock star. Full of humor, candor, and surprising emotional intelligence, the interview peels back the layers on one of rock’s most notorious (yet unexpectedly gentle) figures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Virality, Sobriety & Public Perception

Viral Nose-Rubbing Clip at Fight:
- Tommy addresses the recent viral video: people online assuming he’s “geeked up” after rubbing his nose at a boxing match, despite his sobriety ([03:40]).
- “They cut to David Spade and he also does a little…he’s scratching his nose.” – Tommy Lee ([04:01])
- Dax and Monica joke about how the internet piles on rock star stereotypes.
- Discussion segues into public perception of sobriety and how quick people are to make judgments.
Addiction Cycles:
- Tommy admits he frequently relapsed after a year sober, often out of a sense of accomplishment mixed with fatigue ([05:08]).
- “That’s the fucking problem. I can never go past a year because I’m so pumped that I actually pulled that off.” – Tommy Lee ([05:15])
- Three years was his longest stretch sober; he speculates distraction (like touring) helped him maintain that ([05:57]).
- Both he and Dax discuss the illusion of deserving a “ticker tape parade” for basic good behavior—a very honest, AA-style admission ([06:22]).
Drug Choice & Rock Bottom:
- Dax and Tommy detail which drugs are forever off-limits, especially heroin and opiates, due to the severity of their consequences ([07:06]).
- Tommy tells a harrowing story of shooting Jack Daniels when out of heroin—realizing how far things had gone ([07:28]).
- “We could just drink this. But we’re shooting it, right? This is fucking wrong. And somebody’s gonna die.” – Tommy Lee ([08:00])

Childhood, Family & Communication

Born in Greece, Army Brat:
- Tommy’s dad was a US Army sergeant in Athens; his mom was a Greek beauty pageant contestant ([09:00]).
- Nostalgic humor about parental language barriers—his parents communicated through pictures and a translation dictionary.
  - “Dude, my dad…he had a translation dictionary, and that’s how they would communicate was through drawing pictures…” – Tommy Lee ([10:12])
- Dream analyst’s insight: As a child, Tommy witnessed communication via visuals, perhaps explaining his heavy tattooing ([11:06]).
Introverted Teen:
- Growing up in Covina, CA—Tommy was a “loner,” fixating on music and shop classes in high school over sports or parties ([12:28]).
- “I’d bail home and I would go play my drums in the garage. So I didn’t really hang very much at school.” – Tommy Lee ([12:49])
- Dax and Monica are surprised by Tommy’s social anxiety and introversion, given his wild stage persona ([13:00]).

Escaping with New Passions

Addiction Trade-Offs:
- Dax describes using physical suffering (sauna, cold plunge, compulsive workouts) to curb addictive impulses, while Tommy’s alternative is the art of bonsai care ([13:36]).
- Tommy is now “addicted” to bonsai, describing hours lost in meditative care for his 38 mini trees (down from 43) ([15:00]).
  - “Hours can go by and you don’t even give a fuck about anything.” – Tommy Lee ([14:09])
- He goes so far as to keep “remnants” of trees that die—a soft, almost poetic trait ([15:57]).

Teenage Risk-Taking, Sex, and Early Fame

Young Sexuality & Acid:
- Tommy lost his virginity and took acid at age 13, sharing how early sexual experiences were viewed as ‘cool’ among peers, which contrasts with adult sensibilities ([17:04]).
Marching Band and Musical Foundations:
- Marching band gave Tommy a taste for “tribal” power and showmanship; drumline camaraderie became foundational for later stage theatrics ([19:12]).
Motley Crue Origins:
- Tommy left high school with three months left to focus on Motley Crue, which already had a manager and was close to a record deal ([22:29]).
  - “We had a manager and we were…” – Tommy Lee ([22:48])
- The band was instantly synergistic; meeting Nikki Sixx (who scouted Tommy after seeing him play) was a key moment ([21:02]).
- Early days marked by backyard parties, gigs on the Sunset Strip, and making friends with charismatic but troubled Vince Neil ([22:17]).

The Cost of Success & Substance Abuse

Escalating Use & Collective Rehab:
- Substance use escalated as the band’s success grew, progressing to shooting drugs and “eating handfuls” of sleeping pills ([26:02]).
  - “We were zombies and people weren’t waking up. We’re like, someone’s going to die soon.”
  - The whole band went to rehab together in 1989—prepping for "Dr. Feelgood." ([26:33])
- Post-rehab, "Dr. Feelgood" becomes their best-received, most successful album—contradicting the idea that drugs fuel creativity ([37:18]).
Loneliness and Emotional Whiplash on Tour:
- Despite international fame, Tommy discusses the “heartbreaking” reality that he’s “gone around the world a hundred times and I’ve seen nothing” ([33:15]).
- Dax relates to the drastic emotional swings from onstage euphoria to post-show isolation.
Persona vs. Reality:
- The pressure to be the “crazy party guy” became unsustainable; sober parties repelled fans expecting mayhem ([32:57]).
  - “I noticed that once you get sober and people come back and see you drinking a bottle of water, they’re like, what’s this?” – Tommy Lee ([33:01])

Vulnerability, Therapy & Band Dynamics

Band Therapy and Learning Each Other’s Trauma:
- In sobriety, the band started group therapy, gradually sharing personal traumas and learning sides of each other never discussed before ([35:19]).
- “We were too busy fucking partying. You get to really know people when all that gets pulled away a bit.” – Tommy Lee ([35:59])
- “Vince and I would pile up mostly. Mick was quite a full on recluse… Nikki… stayed to himself…” – Tommy Lee on shifting relationships within the band ([36:17])

Unconventional Hustles: The Gigolo Years

Early Hustling:
- Both Nikki Sixx and Tommy worked briefly as gigolos (“escorts”) for older women to make money before the band broke ([44:44]).
  - “I’d get 500 bucks” – Tommy Lee ([46:46])
- "Lights down low" was his method of coping with potentially awkward, transactional sex.

Breakups, Reunions, and Aging as a Rock Star

Multiple Break-ups:
- Tommy officially left Motley Crue twice (in 2000 and 2016). The band tried to “go out on a high note”—not wanting to devolve into “county fairs and not-so-bad gigs.” ([47:15])
- Discussion on why bands even bother with dramatic ‘farewell tours,’ with the insight that “honoring the band” sometimes means walking away at its peak ([48:44]).
Touring & The Home/Road Dichotomy:
- The grass-is-greener syndrome: crave touring when home, crave home when touring ([49:49]).
- Recent tours are designed to allow more frequent returns home, a healthier balance ([50:20]).

Family, Genetics & Legacy

Kids and Addiction:
- One of Tommy’s sons is sober, leading to a frank conversation about genetics, trauma, and nurture ([50:55]).
- “Genetics loads the gun and trauma pulls the trigger.” – Dax Shepard ([51:07])
Loss and Gain:
- “Privacy lost.” – Tommy Lee on what fame took from him ([51:57]).
- His relationship with ex-wife Pamela Anderson is touched upon warmly, with acknowledgment of public hardship ([52:12]).

Creative Identity and Re-Invention

Solo Projects & Creative Sandbox:
- Post-Crue, Tommy enjoys unlimited creative freedom in his “adult sandbox,” working on whatever style he wishes, including electronic and DJ music ([55:08]).
- “Anything goes. I don’t have someone saying ‘that doesn’t sound like Motley.’ This is where I really get to wield my creativity.” – Tommy Lee ([55:15])
- Strong aversion to country music: playfully sings “Put Another Log on the Fire” ([56:37]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Early Relationships:
- “I would just be like, I wonder if that’s even possible… No, I can’t ask.” – Tommy Lee on unapproachable girls in high school ([69:06])
On Sobriety Relapse:
- “My boy Vince, last night of the tour, we played Hawaii... we just started… just pick up right where you left off.” ([41:55])
- Vince ditches him during group amends—awkward but ultimately forgivable amidst addicts ([42:36])
On Weight Maintenance:
- “By the time I get done after a two hour show, I’m toast… I weigh the same I’ve weighed in high school.” – Tommy Lee ([62:05])
- Used a pedometer: “I just did 13 miles sitting down.” ([63:00])
On Living in the Moment:
- “I’ve stopped projecting… These days I’m living really for the fucking moment.” – Tommy Lee ([64:42])
- Dax explores dream fulfillment: “Do you think it helps that you’ve had all the dream outcomes, and the dream outcomes didn’t really feel as good as anticipated?” ([65:16])
On Posting Nudes Online:
- “Just drunk… Thought people had missed it.” – Tommy Lee on his famously accidental nude post ([68:11])

Reflections on Masculinity & Approval

Sex & Validation:
- Tommy and Dax commiserate about the addictive high of female attention in adolescence and how it shaped their entire worldview ([69:06]-[69:40]).
- “Which one do you think was harder to let go of? Drinking and drugs or female approval?”
  – Dax
  “Drinking and drugs. Harder. Way harder.”
  – Tommy ([69:48])

Closing Thoughts

Legacy & Kindness:
- “You have navigated so much messy business… But what I think is super telling is… those folks like you a lot.” – Dax Shepard ([67:13])
- Monica and Dax cite Tommy’s underlying sweetness and gratitude—it’s a thread throughout even his wildest stories.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Context | |-----------|-------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:15 | Tommy Lee | “That’s the fucking problem. I can never go past a year because I’m so pumped…” | | 07:28 | Tommy Lee | “We could just drink this. But we’re shooting it, right? This is fucking wrong…” | | 13:52 | Tommy Lee | “That’s my drug of choice these days.” (on bonsai trees) | | 14:09 | Tommy Lee | “Hours can go by and you don’t even give a fuck about anything…” | | 33:15 | Dax Shepard | “You have this heartbreaking… you said, I’ve been around the world a hundred times and I’ve seen nothing.” | | 35:59 | Tommy Lee | “You get to really know people when all that gets pulled away a bit.” | | 41:55 | Tommy Lee | “My boy Vince, last night of the tour, we played Hawaii…” (Relapse story) | | 42:36 | Tommy Lee | “Vince…doesn’t say a word. Just squeezed me.” | | 55:15 | Tommy Lee | “I call it my adult sandbox. I get to do creatively whatever I want to do.” | | 62:05 | Tommy Lee | “By the time I get done after a two hour show, I’m toast…” | | 63:00 | Tommy Lee | “I just did 13 miles sitting down.” | | 64:42 | Tommy Lee | “I’ve stopped projecting… I’m living for the fucking moment.” | | 67:13 | Dax Shepard | “You have navigated so much messy business… what I think is super telling… those folks like you a lot.” | | 68:11 | Tommy Lee | “Just drunk… Thought people had missed it.” (on nude Twitter post) | | 69:06 | Tommy Lee | “There was a girl in my school, in high school, the hottest chick in the whole school…” | | 69:48 | Tommy Lee | “Drinking and drugs. Harder. Way harder. Way harder.” |

Important Segments (Timestamps)

[03:40] Viral fight clip & public perceptions of sobriety
[05:08] Tommy’s annual relapse cycle
[07:28] Heroin and the infamous Jack Daniels story
[13:36] New “good” addictions: working out vs. bonsai trees
[21:02] Meeting Nikki Sixx and forming Motley Crue
[26:02] Collective rehab decision
[32:57] Persona pressures and post-sobriety identity
[35:19] Band therapy—uncovering trauma
[41:55] First major relapse post-rehab
[47:15] Band breakups and the “farewell tour” mentality
[55:08] Solo projects: sandbox for experimentation
[62:05] Maintaining physicality, the reality of drumming live into your 60s
[64:42] Living in the moment, reevaluating goals

The Tone and Feel

The tone is candid, humorous, and unexpectedly vulnerable.
Tommy Lee’s openness is matched by Dax’s own confessions, making for a surprisingly moving portrait of aging, fame, and redemption.
Monica and Dr. Judd contribute insightful (and often funny) observations about addiction, emotional well-being, and fame’s psychological cost.

For Listeners/Newcomers

This episode is not just “rock star tells war stories” — it’s a mesmerizing, human look at celebrity, survival, and self-discovery, filled with wild stories, wisdom hard-won, and a recurring sense of humility and humor. Tommy’s journey is less about infamy than about forgiveness, adaptation, and ultimately, the pursuit of peace—whether through the calm of bonsai or the thunder of a kick drum.

Highly recommended tracks from the episode:

Addiction and recovery cycles ([05:08–08:00], [26:02–34:00])
Band formation and youthful exploits ([19:00–26:00])
The redemptive power of quiet passions and emotional honesty ([13:36–16:00], [33:15–36:00])
Reflections on identity, legacy, and staying “sweet” in a chaotic life ([62:05–68:00], [67:13])

For more, check out Tommy Land Rides Again (remastered) and MutleyCrue.com for tour dates.

Loading summary

Transcript1,435 lines

[00:00]
Dax Shepard
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. Experts on Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.
[00:06]
Monica Padman
Hi.
[00:07]
Tommy Lee
Hi.
[00:07]
Dax Shepard
What are you drinking?
[00:10]
Monica Padman
I'm drinking. I'm drinking a coffee.
[00:13]
Dax Shepard
Okay.
[00:14]
Monica Padman
But I don't want any more of it.
[00:16]
Dax Shepard
But I. It's like a blankie at this point.
[00:20]
Monica Padman
It's a safety blanket.
[00:21]
Dax Shepard
That makes sense.
[00:22]
Monica Padman
And, you know, who needs a safety blanket?
[00:24]
Dax Shepard
Tommy Lee. Tommy Lee. Tommy Lee is a musician. He is the co founder and drummer of Motley Crue. He's. I mean, I think he's the most famous man in the 90s. I know. His albums include Never a Dull Moment, Andrew, Tommy Land, the Ride, Shout at the devil, Dr. Feelgood. His new album is out now. Tommy Land rides Again. I mean, this guy did it all, Monica.
[00:50]
Monica Padman
He really. He has lived a life.
[00:54]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. Please enjoy Tommy Lee. We get support from quints.
[00:59]
Monica Padman
Have you been wearing the quince linen shirts?
[01:02]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, I've been wearing them a suspicious amount. Yeah. European linen ones. They're 34 bucks, which is genuinely insane for how nice they are.
[01:11]
Monica Padman
It doesn't even make sense.
[01:13]
Dax Shepard
Well, here's the deal. They work directly with the factories, cut out all the middlemen. So you're paying for the actual quality and not some brand's marketing budget. Everything's 50 to 80% less than comparable stuff. I love it because it's all very classic and traditional and I know I'm going to be able to keep it for a very long, long time. And the quality's off the charts.
[01:33]
Monica Padman
That's true. The style is very consistent. Whatever you get there, you walk down the street, you're going to look good. They have these lightweight cotton sweaters, which I love for when it cools down at night. It's nice. Drape around your shoulders in the summer and then throw it on when it gets a little cool. And it's not just clothes. They do home stuff. Ding, ding, ding. Travel stuff, everyday essentials. It's all the same model quality without the markup.
[01:55]
Dax Shepard
Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quints.comdax for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.comdax for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.comdax we are supported by Autotrader. All right. If you've been putting off car shopping because it sounds like a whole thing, buying your car online on autotrader makes it way easier. Really. You can shop tons of cars online, compare prices, check financing and trade in options, all from wherever you are. And if you want to start online and go to the dealership for a test drive, you can do that too. Really? What I like is the flexibility. Start online, finish at the dealer, or the other way around. Your info stays with you, so you're not starting the process from scratch. Plus, you're working with local dealer listings, so you've got real people helping behind the scenes. And when you're ready, you can pick up your car or have it delivered. Really? Buy your car online on Autotrader. Really?
[02:58]
Dr. Judd Brewer
He's an object expert.
[03:03]
Dax Shepard
He's an observer.
[03:15]
Monica Padman
Dax, you were at the fight that we were at?
[03:17]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saturday, like in front of us.
[03:19]
Monica Padman
We were gonna say hi, but we didn't wanna be like that.
[03:21]
Dax Shepard
But didn't wanna be like, well, this has happened to me twice in like 24 hours. Which is. I saw you there and I was like, I don't wanna say hi. Cause I'm interviewing him in a minute. And then I saw a dude at a party on Sunday who we're interviewing on Wednesday. I was like, oh, this is so awkward. Normally I would sit and talk to this dude, but I don't find out a bunch of interesting shit.
[03:40]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[03:41]
Monica Padman
He wants to talk about today. Cause there's like a viral clip going around of him from that fight of people he rubbed his nose when the camera was on him.
[03:50]
Dax Shepard
Oh, exciting. You think you're some boogie shooky Sober, my ass.
[03:54]
Monica Padman
He's sober now and everyone's like, he's fucking geeked up. Oh, my God, the Internet's insane.
[04:01]
Tommy Lee
They cut to David Spade and he also does a little.
[04:05]
Dr. Judd Brewer
He just.
[04:05]
Tommy Lee
He's fucking scratching his nose.
[04:07]
Dax Shepard
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
[04:08]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But it looks like the two of
[04:10]
Dax Shepard
you were just in the. Him banging the devil standard.
[04:13]
Tommy Lee
Just doing gag,
[04:16]
Monica Padman
dude. Good thing they didn't cut to you. Also,
[04:21]
Tommy Lee
I'm surprised they didn't show. Dax, like, rub his nose and just look.
[04:26]
Dax Shepard
All the veins.
[04:28]
Monica Padman
All the sober dudes.
[04:30]
Dax Shepard
I'm roping off.
[04:32]
Monica Padman
Yeah, exactly.
[04:34]
Dax Shepard
The little piece of glass that the flowers came in at the gas station to get my pipe ready at the fight. Do you ever get that dark? Do you ever get the little flowers with the little glass pipe?
[04:44]
Monica Padman
What's the little.
[04:45]
Dax Shepard
No, there's all these hacks when you smoke crack. And all the downtown gas stations had all these inexplicable items for sale. Like, who's buying fucking these little roses? Yeah, but it's really just to get this little glass rod that you could use as a pipe.
[04:57]
Monica Padman
Wow.
[04:58]
Dax Shepard
And then these old little bits of like SOS pad or Brillo pad that you also want to pack in there, like all this random shit would be at the counter at mobile gas station downtown Detroit.
[05:07]
Monica Padman
Oh my God. Wow.
[05:09]
Tommy Lee
I get so excited that I'm like, oh my God. Dude, I've been sober for a year and I celebrate.
[05:16]
Dax Shepard
Yes.
[05:16]
Tommy Lee
That's the fucking problem. I can never go past a year because I'm so pumped that I actually pulled that off.
[05:22]
Dax Shepard
The impossible.
[05:23]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[05:25]
Dax Shepard
How long does the celebration last? Looks like you're debating whether or not, to be honest.
[05:31]
Tommy Lee
I don't know. Maybe six months.
[05:33]
Dax Shepard
Okay, sure. A little six month celebration.
[05:35]
Tommy Lee
And then.
[05:36]
Dax Shepard
Then you're demoralized and you hate everything.
[05:39]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[05:40]
Dax Shepard
Ye.
[05:41]
Tommy Lee
You want to kill yourself. Okay, I'm done.
[05:43]
Dax Shepard
And you're like, well, we're here we are again. Have you done ever longer than a year?
[05:48]
Tommy Lee
Yes. I think three years was the longest I've done.
[05:52]
Dax Shepard
Oh, really?
[05:52]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. I don't know why I didn't celebrate between those years. I must have been on some other plane.
[05:57]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. What do you think was going on? You were probably very interested in something or distracted by something.
[06:03]
Tommy Lee
You know, I was probably really busy. If you're always on tour, you're just going and going and going. All of a sudden a couple years goes by like that. Two and a half years in one tour. All of a sudden you're like, dude, I did it.
[06:15]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go, I've earned some reward for this.
[06:19]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, I know, right?
[06:20]
Dax Shepard
Come on, I deserve rewards.
[06:22]
Tommy Lee
I've been good. Boy.
[06:25]
Dax Shepard
This is the pathetic thing about all of us in recovery is. Yeah. You behave like all human beings behave. And you think you deserve a ticker tape parade. I haven't cheated on my girlfriend in two years. Yeah, yeah. Like everyone, man.
[06:39]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[06:40]
Dax Shepard
This doesn't deserve a fucking parade.
[06:42]
Tommy Lee
That is awesome.
[06:43]
Dax Shepard
And when you go out on those after the year, do we do everything? Are there some stuff you just can't ever do again? Like for me, I got burned by the opiates thing and I just. For me, it's so seared into. Getting off of them is so horrendous. It's just beyond.
[07:00]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[07:01]
Dax Shepard
That to me it's like, oh, I don't think in any scenario, even fucked up, would I go back down that one?
[07:06]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[07:07]
Dax Shepard
Are there ones you won't fuck with or when it's on, it's.
[07:10]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, that's one of them. I don't really fudge with that. I haven't fudged with that in a long time with heroin, that's one of those that you go, oh, I could die.
[07:19]
Dax Shepard
And you're watching people around you are
[07:22]
Tommy Lee
dying because it feels so fucking good. You're like, this is way too good. I know myself well enough. We shouldn't fuck with this.
[07:28]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[07:29]
Tommy Lee
That kind of vibe. We fucked with it for a while and there was a point where I was with my bass player and we were just doing a shitload of heroin and we ran out and it's like probably three, four in the morning. And we're like, fuck, dude, what are we gonna do? The moment we unscrewed the cap on a fifth of Jack and filled up the cap with Jack and then pulled a couple syringes and we're shooting Jack Daniels, I was like. It was at that moment where I
[07:57]
Monica Padman
went, okay, what is happening?
[08:01]
Tommy Lee
We could just drink this. But we're shooting it, right? This is fucking wrong. And somebody's gonna die.
[08:07]
Dax Shepard
INS taken hold. No one's thinking clearly.
[08:10]
Tommy Lee
Eject, eject.
[08:11]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[08:13]
Tommy Lee
That was when I realized.
[08:14]
Dax Shepard
Do you even remember the sensation of shooting booze? Did it do anything differently?
[08:18]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, you could taste it.
[08:20]
Dax Shepard
Oh, wow.
[08:20]
Tommy Lee
Like, you taste heroin.
[08:22]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[08:22]
Monica Padman
You taste heroin.
[08:24]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. There's definitely a taste.
[08:26]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[08:26]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[08:26]
Dax Shepard
Well, have you ever had a B12 shot for health? Yeah, I have. And you taste it kind of immediately.
[08:32]
Monica Padman
That is true.
[08:33]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. Let's put it in a positive.
[08:35]
Monica Padman
I would not expect that, though.
[08:37]
Dax Shepard
Put a. Medicinal.
[08:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
First of all.
[08:38]
Monica Padman
What does it taste like? Not to try trigger anyone, but I am curious.
[08:42]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. How would you describe the taste?
[08:44]
Tommy Lee
Oaky. Oaky. But medicine oaky.
[08:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Interesting. Interesting. Weird.
[08:51]
Dax Shepard
Medicinal.
[08:52]
Monica Padman
So strange.
[08:54]
Tommy Lee
I'm like referring to like wine or something.
[08:56]
Monica Padman
Yeah, exactly. A hint of chocolate.
[08:58]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Notes of.
[09:01]
Dax Shepard
Let's start at the beginning. You were born in Greece, in Athens.
[09:04]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[09:05]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. And your dad was in the US Army? He was a sergeant.
[09:09]
Tommy Lee
Yep.
[09:09]
Dax Shepard
What was he doing there, 1959-62 or something?
[09:13]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, he was stationed there. And the staff sergeant of the motor pool, he ran where they fix all the tanks, trucks, anything with motors in it.
[09:23]
Dax Shepard
So he was mechanical?
[09:25]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, full on mechanic.
[09:26]
Dax Shepard
I know he built a monkey enclosure in your backyard at some point, so
[09:29]
Tommy Lee
I know he has some carpentry skills too. We had a monkey growing up. It was fun, man.
[09:35]
Dax Shepard
But mom was Miss Greek beauty pageant.
[09:38]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[09:38]
Dax Shepard
Contestant, right?
[09:39]
Tommy Lee
Crazy, huh?
[09:41]
Dax Shepard
Is she a mega babe?
[09:42]
Tommy Lee
Super hot. Tell my father once in a while. I go, dad, I get it, I get it. I would have married her too.
[09:49]
Dax Shepard
She's gorgeous.
[09:50]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Beautiful, stunning woman.
[09:52]
Dax Shepard
Was she keen to move to California, or was that a bummer for her if she falls in love with this dude in Athens and then he wants to go back to California?
[10:00]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, I don't know. If she had a choice, I would just assume she'd be excited to come to America. I don't know. The crazy thing was neither one of them understood each other. They communicated through drawings.
[10:13]
Dax Shepard
Oh, really?
[10:13]
Tommy Lee
You know, my dad, he had a translation dictionary, and that's how they would communicate was through drawing pictures and a chicken and an egg and we need to go get.
[10:22]
Dax Shepard
She must be so hot if he was willing to do this, right? You imagine someone being hot enough to, like, I'm gonna communicate with you. It is cute.
[10:31]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But I mean, you gotta.
[10:32]
Dax Shepard
Because you don't know what her personality is like, because you're not talking to her, right? So you're just like, this girl's so stunning. I'm willing to communicate via pictures, via cartoons. Yeah. Cartoo. So I presume she learned English. Did he ever learn any Greek?
[10:47]
Tommy Lee
He learned enough to get better at communicating.
[10:50]
Dax Shepard
Appease his father in law occasionally.
[10:51]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah, right. It's funny because, dude, I went to this dream analyst dude, like, years ago. We were talking and I was telling him about my dreams. The conversation shifted to me talking about how my mom and my father would communicate.
[11:07]
Dax Shepard
Right.
[11:07]
Tommy Lee
Through pictures and stuff. And he goes, that explains all your artwork on your body. He goes, at that age, that's what you saw as communication.
[11:19]
Monica Padman
Interesting.
[11:20]
Tommy Lee
And he goes, so you now are communicating on the outside of your skin. And I was like, I never thought about that. But isn't that cool?
[11:30]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, it's cool.
[11:31]
Monica Padman
That makes sense.
[11:32]
Dax Shepard
What do you have for siblings? Cause you went to her ballet recital.
[11:36]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, dude.
[11:37]
Dax Shepard
And what did you see there?
[11:39]
Tommy Lee
I joined ballet.
[11:40]
Dax Shepard
Smart move, right?
[11:42]
Tommy Lee
I went to some of her practices and stuff. And I was like, man, this is cool.
[11:47]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[11:48]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Way cooler than, like, playing baseball or football and getting snapped with towels in the locker room. I was like, I'd rather be doing this. Yeah.
[11:56]
Dax Shepard
Hanging with all the girls.
[11:58]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. This shit's gay.
[11:59]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[11:59]
Tommy Lee
I'm not down.
[12:00]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, but that's what they accused you of, right? Once you had a recital coming, front
[12:04]
Tommy Lee
page of the daily paper. And then that day, I went to school and just got pounded like, dude, what is up? I literally quit the next day.
[12:14]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. What age do you think that was?
[12:16]
Tommy Lee
16.
[12:16]
Dax Shepard
Oh, that late?
[12:17]
Monica Padman
Yeah, that is late.
[12:18]
Dax Shepard
Oh, wow.
[12:19]
Tommy Lee
High school.
[12:20]
Dax Shepard
What was the vibe in Covina in the 70s? Was it just, like, Americana? There were jocks and burnouts. And where were you shuffling into this mix?
[12:29]
Tommy Lee
I'd only go to my favorite two classes in school. I was kind of a loner. I didn't really hang with many people. I'd go to my favorite two classes which was music and shop, wood shop and shit. Like make silkscreen T shirts and shit. Like creator shit. I would bail home and I would go play my drums in the garage. So I didn't really hang very much at school.
[12:50]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, you're like an introvert.
[12:52]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, yeah, totally.
[12:53]
Dax Shepard
I think that might shock people because you've had such an out loud life. Yeah.
[12:58]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. I'm really nervous just hanging out with you guys.
[13:01]
Monica Padman
Oh, God.
[13:01]
Dax Shepard
No, seriously, you shouldn't be sweet.
[13:04]
Tommy Lee
I'm being brutal.
[13:05]
Dax Shepard
I like you. I'm honoring you with a wife beater today.
[13:08]
Tommy Lee
I love it.
[13:08]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, that's great. Showing you my.
[13:10]
Tommy Lee
I know. And you're all fucking buffed out, dude.
[13:12]
Dax Shepard
Well, that's just.
[13:13]
Tommy Lee
Are you working out?
[13:14]
Dax Shepard
I work out pretty compulsively. Yeah, he looks like it. Fuck. Have you gotten into the like suffering as a way to abate addiction? Like, I think if I suffer a few times during the day, like I sauna, which is miserable, and I cold plunge and then I work out, which is miserable. If I do these three miserable things, I feel like I've earned a good mood the rest of the day.
[13:36]
Tommy Lee
Ah.
[13:37]
Dax Shepard
Have you ever tried that? Like going the opposite direction?
[13:39]
Tommy Lee
I have tried that, but I think my go to now, this is like seven years ago. I've gotten into the world of bonsai.
[13:48]
Dax Shepard
Oh, yes. I know this about you. Oh, yeah.
[13:50]
Tommy Lee
To me, that's like my.
[13:52]
Dax Shepard
That's your good addiction.
[13:53]
Tommy Lee
That's my drug of choice these days. Like it's the reverse of the torture. I don't know. This is just, I think a kinder way of.
[14:00]
Monica Padman
Yeah, yeah.
[14:01]
Dax Shepard
Well, you're caring for something.
[14:03]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[14:03]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[14:04]
Dax Shepard
And so you have like an implicit purpose. And it's slow and methodical.
[14:10]
Tommy Lee
Hours can go by and you don't even give a fuck about anything. Like, it is the most beautiful release.
[14:16]
Monica Padman
What do you do? You trim it.
[14:18]
Tommy Lee
You're doing everything from fertilizing to wiring branches where you want them to grow.
[14:23]
Monica Padman
Oh, wow. That's so cool.
[14:24]
Dax Shepard
I learned this as talk about it. It takes like years and years to get them to look the way they do when you see them.
[14:32]
Tommy Lee
Years, bro. It would be silly if I didn't mention there's a lot of. It's like watching paint dry sometimes, you know, you're like, man, I'VE been working on this tree for four years.
[14:42]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[14:42]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[14:43]
Tommy Lee
This is it.
[14:44]
Monica Padman
Right?
[14:47]
Tommy Lee
You're trying to, like, feed them so they grow faster and so it's good for the impatience.
[14:52]
Monica Padman
Yes.
[14:53]
Dax Shepard
And the restlessness. It calms you.
[14:54]
Tommy Lee
Get on the tree speed.
[14:55]
Dax Shepard
A year ago at that time, you had 43 bonsai trees under your care.
[15:00]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[15:01]
Dax Shepard
How many do you have now? Is it worse?
[15:02]
Tommy Lee
I'm down to 38 now.
[15:04]
Dax Shepard
Because you've killed five of them?
[15:05]
Tommy Lee
Yes, sir. Oh, no.
[15:07]
Dax Shepard
Can you push them too hard? As far as trying to keep them miniature, you can do that. It's like having, like, a child athlete.
[15:14]
Tommy Lee
No, you're right. If you do too much work to them at once, let's say it's time to repot something because it's getting root bound. If you do a bunch of hard cuts and a lot of trimming and working and then repot it, it's too much. Sometimes on. On the tree, you'll stress it out because it's building new roots and new branches.
[15:34]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah.
[15:35]
Tommy Lee
So you can stress a tree out and kill it. And I've done that.
[15:38]
Dax Shepard
And how do you feel? Do you take that hard?
[15:41]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, dude, it's. That's a bummer. You something, you know, years with. Yeah. And you're like, I just killed this. What are you doing?
[15:50]
Dax Shepard
And will you be sad for a while over it?
[15:53]
Tommy Lee
Oh, yeah. I still keep, like, the branches, the deadwood, the remnants. Yeah, I keep.
[15:57]
Dax Shepard
Oh, my God, that's sweet.
[15:59]
Tommy Lee
It's like the skeleton or whatever.
[16:01]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, it's a little like Mike Tyson and his pigeons.
[16:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Totally, totally.
[16:06]
Dax Shepard
It's like impossibly sweet activities.
[16:08]
Monica Padman
What does he do to pigeons?
[16:09]
Dax Shepard
Just carry for them. He loves pigeons. He's got, like, the sweetest heart. He has hundreds of pigeons. And as a kid, he was a loner, and he just had these pigeons so wild. And someone, like, stole his pigeons. That was his first fight. Well, he fought back. He used to get bullied, and then he's like, oh, I'm powerful.
[16:26]
Monica Padman
Oh, it's funny.
[16:27]
Dax Shepard
How do you fuck with my pigeons?
[16:28]
Monica Padman
I'm powerful, Lenny.
[16:30]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, but smart version.
[16:32]
Monica Padman
Sure.
[16:32]
Dax Shepard
Yet we don't want to accuse.
[16:34]
Monica Padman
No, I didn't. I would never accuse him of anything.
[16:39]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yes.
[16:39]
Dax Shepard
So you were kind of an introvert. You weren't terribly lucky with gals, were you, in high school?
[16:44]
Tommy Lee
I did okay.
[16:45]
Dax Shepard
Deborah, was that her name? Brenda.
[16:48]
Tommy Lee
Brenda.
[16:49]
Dax Shepard
Brenda.
[16:50]
Tommy Lee
Brenda. Yeah.
[16:51]
Dax Shepard
Easy mistake. How do you know this shit?
[16:54]
Monica Padman
He does his research.
[16:55]
Tommy Lee
Whoa, dude.
[16:56]
Monica Padman
He does his research.
[16:59]
Dax Shepard
How old were you when you and Brenda made love oh,
[17:04]
Tommy Lee
I was 13.
[17:06]
Dax Shepard
13, okay. Okay. You never know what ages are coming from because he also talked about first time he did acid and you're like waiting for him to say the age and you're predicting it's going to be this. But it was like 13, I think as well, right?
[17:17]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[17:17]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[17:17]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[17:18]
Monica Padman
13 was a big year for you.
[17:20]
Tommy Lee
It was big. It was really big.
[17:21]
Dax Shepard
8th grade or 9th grade.
[17:23]
Tommy Lee
That would be like junior high school, I think seventh.
[17:27]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. I too had sex at 13.
[17:28]
Tommy Lee
You did?
[17:29]
Dax Shepard
I did. She was 15. She was a ninth grader. She had already done sex a couple times and so I was like, okay. She already knows what she's doing.
[17:36]
Tommy Lee
Apparently. That's really young.
[17:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yes, it is.
[17:39]
Dax Shepard
Now that I have a 13 year old, people go, oh my God. Yeah, it's uncomfortable for people. When we were kids, it made you cool. Like my friends thought I was a king because of that.
[17:47]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah.
[17:47]
Dax Shepard
And I hate to admit I love that my buddies thought I was so cool cause of that. And now as I'm older, like no one likes that. Everyone's uncomfortable.
[17:55]
Monica Padman
My kids get really old.
[17:57]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[17:57]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. My little sister came walking in.
[18:02]
Dax Shepard
Oh boy.
[18:02]
Tommy Lee
And I'm fucking her best friend, which is our neighbor.
[18:06]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[18:07]
Tommy Lee
And. And my sister's just like
[18:11]
Dax Shepard
top of
[18:11]
Tommy Lee
her lungs, just fucking. Yeah. And just.
[18:13]
Monica Padman
She probably thought you were killing her blue.
[18:15]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. It was such a bad scene and I knew she was going to tell my parents and shit. Right. It was all bad.
[18:23]
Dax Shepard
Tommy, you can't have sex with the neighbor children.
[18:25]
Tommy Lee
Yes. Both parents had the talk. Oh. No restriction. From each other. Each other for three weeks or something.
[18:35]
Monica Padman
That sounds right.
[18:37]
Dax Shepard
Okay.
[18:37]
Tommy Lee
Is that classic? Kind of like a movie story? Yeah.
[18:40]
Monica Padman
Leave it to Beaver.
[18:41]
Tommy Lee
Our bedrooms. We could see each other and be like at night, be like, oh, yeah.
[18:45]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[18:46]
Tommy Lee
That was up. Oh, sorry. What's up? Sorry. Yeah.
[18:49]
Dax Shepard
I still like you.
[18:50]
Tommy Lee
You're rad.
[18:51]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[18:51]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[18:53]
Dax Shepard
Okay, so the introversion, will we attribute it to anything or just. That was your nature. You wanted to get home, your dad built you a little soundproof box inside the garage for you to thrash around non stop.
[19:05]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, my dad built a room inside the garage that was my place.
[19:10]
Dax Shepard
And you were in marching band too, right?
[19:12]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[19:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[19:13]
Dax Shepard
Were you a show off? Were you fucking flipping the sticks around stuff? Was there a lot of pageantry to it?
[19:17]
Tommy Lee
I liked that part of it. That's the part where the showy twirly things that I later brought along with me into Motley. But yeah, that was fun. I'm a drummer. I fucking loved drums. And anytime you organize a bunch of dudes all in the drum line, man, that's.
[19:35]
Dax Shepard
Some magic happens.
[19:36]
Tommy Lee
It's powerful, right?
[19:38]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, it's primitive. There's something tribal. Tribal that happens.
[19:41]
Tommy Lee
So fucking cool. Right out of high school is kind of when things blew up for me with Motley and I quit my senior year. So that's kind of when everything.
[19:54]
Dax Shepard
You had Studio 19 in what grade? That was your first band? Yeah, Studio 19.
[19:59]
Tommy Lee
Sweet 19.
[19:59]
Dax Shepard
Oh, sorry.
[20:00]
Tommy Lee
Sweet 19. That was cool. He knows all this shit.
[20:02]
Dax Shepard
What year? What grade was that?
[20:04]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, early senior year.
[20:05]
Dax Shepard
And this is interesting. I think the lead singer, Motley Crue, Vince, went to your high school, right?
[20:11]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[20:11]
Dax Shepard
So you knew him, but how close were you? Were you guys friends or you just kind of knew him peripherally?
[20:15]
Tommy Lee
We're buds. Yeah. He was always playing backyard parties, and I'd go check his band out and. Okay, we'd hang. And all the girls at the school
[20:24]
Dax Shepard
were in love with them all over him.
[20:26]
Tommy Lee
He always had chicks all the time.
[20:28]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. So he practiced.
[20:30]
Tommy Lee
That was cool, too.
[20:31]
Monica Padman
Of course.
[20:32]
Tommy Lee
Hang with them, because all these.
[20:34]
Monica Padman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you already tatted by then?
[20:37]
Tommy Lee
No.
[20:38]
Monica Padman
Okay. That came later.
[20:39]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, yeah.
[20:40]
Monica Padman
Okay.
[20:40]
Dax Shepard
You need a little scratch for that
[20:42]
Tommy Lee
or some really good homies that are like tattoo artists?
[20:45]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah.
[20:46]
Tommy Lee
Hook me up, dude.
[20:48]
Dax Shepard
So sweet. 19. You did play, right? You did shows and you played some Sunset Strip venues back then?
[20:54]
Tommy Lee
Yep.
[20:54]
Dax Shepard
And you met Nikki Sixx doing that?
[20:56]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, he had come to see us play, and that's where I met Nikki. Was at the Starwood.
[21:03]
Dax Shepard
And did you guys get along instantly? What was the connection there?
[21:05]
Tommy Lee
Instantly? Cause I had known him. I had posters of him.
[21:10]
Dax Shepard
Oh, you did?
[21:11]
Tommy Lee
His band with London at the time, they were this really cool, kind of glam punk band in Hollywood, and I had one of their posters up in my bedroom. So it was cool to meet him. I was like, whoa. And he had left his band and he was wanting to start something new.
[21:26]
Dax Shepard
When he came to see you, was he coming to see you play?
[21:29]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[21:30]
Dax Shepard
Were you head and shoulders above your competition at that time, at that age, think you were pretty mature as a drummer already?
[21:36]
Tommy Lee
Probably.
[21:37]
Monica Padman
Yeah, you can brag.
[21:39]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if this dude's already been in some successful bands and he's coming to scout you, he watches you, and he's like, yeah, I want to be in a band with this dude. Yeah, there could be several things. We've also talked to a bunch of people with bands where they go, I just thought this dude looked cool. Like, People might think, I can't. He came in, he played a great solo. No. We're like, this dude's got a vibe. He's so cool. So Nikki could have saw you and been like, oh, this guy's. He innately is a rock star.
[22:02]
Tommy Lee
Are. Which is probably more the case because Nikki is pretty visual. Yes. And maybe not so much like, oh, he's super badass drummer.
[22:13]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[22:13]
Tommy Lee
Technically, he's more on the aesthetic side, maybe.
[22:16]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[22:17]
Tommy Lee
You know?
[22:18]
Dax Shepard
And what did mom and dad think of this pursuit? You've dropped out of high school. That couldn't have been their dream for you.
[22:24]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[22:25]
Dax Shepard
You're hanging out in the Sunset Strip.
[22:26]
Tommy Lee
Not that.
[22:26]
Dax Shepard
In your teens.
[22:28]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[22:28]
Dax Shepard
How are they responding to that?
[22:30]
Tommy Lee
They were hating it when I told them I was going to quit school my senior year. I got. I think I got, like, three months to go, and I'm like, I got a bail. We got a recording contract.
[22:40]
Dax Shepard
You guys already had all that before you were out of high school. MLE Crew already had a recording contract.
[22:45]
Tommy Lee
Not a recording contract yet, but we had a manager and we were.
[22:48]
Dax Shepard
You're about to sell your first album, right?
[22:51]
Tommy Lee
Yep. Wow.
[22:52]
Dax Shepard
Okay. This is 1980s.
[22:55]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[22:55]
Dax Shepard
Oh, this is so exciting.
[22:57]
Monica Padman
17 or something.
[22:58]
Tommy Lee
You're 17? Yeah.
[22:59]
Monica Padman
Oh, my God. That's too young to become a rock star.
[23:02]
Dax Shepard
Well, he's already been having sex for four years.
[23:04]
Monica Padman
Oh, yeah.
[23:04]
Tommy Lee
He's okay.
[23:07]
Dax Shepard
I think Motley Crue came on my radar in Junior High. Like, 86. Right. Even when I'm researching you, I'm like, dude, yeah. 1980s. Early for that band.
[23:17]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[23:17]
Dax Shepard
It's so 80s, the band. But in 1980, it's a pretty forward, progressive band because we're coming out of, like, yacht Rocky time and a little confusion in rock and roll. We don't really know where we're going yet. Right. It's a precarious time for rock.
[23:31]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. It was a weird time. Like, the knack was huge. Remember my Sharon? That was massive.
[23:39]
Dax Shepard
So how quickly do you guys. Well, first of all. So Nikki kind of scouts you. You guys decide. Let's form this band. Next comes Mick Mars.
[23:48]
Tommy Lee
Yep.
[23:49]
Dax Shepard
And then you're the one who says, I know Vince. He gets all the girls back in my high school. We should give him a shot.
[23:55]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[23:55]
Dax Shepard
So when you called him, was he like, I'm straight. I already have my thing all ironed out, or was he anxious to join this band?
[24:01]
Tommy Lee
At first, he made it seem like it. He's like, oh, yeah. Yeah, bro. I'm like, dude, you got to come down. We got this singer right now, but he sucks. You got to come audition. Come, you know, give it a rip. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he didn't show up.
[24:15]
Dax Shepard
Oh, great.
[24:16]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. So. But he eventually did. And Vince was our guy. Man.
[24:20]
Dax Shepard
This is like the lore of a lot of these bands. I don't know. Did you watch the Led Zeppelin doc that came out last year?
[24:25]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah.
[24:26]
Dax Shepard
Were you not shocked with that first recorded performance of theirs in black and white? They have been a band for like six weeks and they play as good as Led Zeppelin ever played.
[24:36]
Tommy Lee
Insane. I know.
[24:37]
Dax Shepard
It's impossible.
[24:38]
Tommy Lee
I know.
[24:39]
Dax Shepard
You're like, how could these guys have this synergy after six weeks of playing together?
[24:44]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[24:44]
Dax Shepard
But you guys kind of hit that same magic, right? It worked immediately.
[24:49]
Tommy Lee
Immediately. From the second Nicky and I got together. He had written a bunch of these songs with the anticipation of starting a new band, right? And he's playing them for me on acoustic guitar and sitting in a situation kind of like this. And I just started playing drums on the table. And we vibed immediately. And it just almost erupted. It was like, this is meant to be. We gotta find a fucking guitar player. We gotta get a singer. That's really where it all started. With an acoustic guitar, a bunch of fucking alcohol, some hands on a table. We were off. That was it.
[25:25]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. So if we chart your using. I know you've experimented with acid at 13. Where are we at here? Senior year. We've dropped off. How often are we using? What are you into at that time then?
[25:36]
Tommy Lee
Drinking mostly and couldn't really afford cocaine yet. So mostly drinking.
[25:43]
Dax Shepard
Was it immediately problematic or was it a slow.
[25:46]
Tommy Lee
Oh, no, not at all.
[25:47]
Monica Padman
No.
[25:47]
Dax Shepard
You had a nice ride for a while. You did it like a gentleman for a minute.
[25:52]
Tommy Lee
Oh, yeah.
[25:52]
Dax Shepard
How long did that last?
[25:55]
Tommy Lee
That lasted till 1989. We all decided we were going. Needed to go to rehab or someone was going to die.
[26:03]
Dax Shepard
You can kind of a nine year trajectory of it getting progressively more dangerous.
[26:09]
Tommy Lee
Like till the wheels fall off dangerous. We were shooting, right?
[26:14]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[26:14]
Tommy Lee
Dude, we gotta stop this. This is fucked up. And people are eating handfuls of. They were called halcyons. They're like sleeping pills. We'd eat handfuls of them and then go out for the night.
[26:27]
Monica Padman
Right?
[26:28]
Dax Shepard
Everything was upside down.
[26:29]
Tommy Lee
We were zombies and people weren't waking up. We're like, someone's going to die soon.
[26:33]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[26:33]
Tommy Lee
So as a collective, the whole band.
[26:35]
Dax Shepard
The whole band went to treatment. Monica together at different places.
[26:39]
Monica Padman
We can't do that.
[26:40]
Tommy Lee
This alone. Guys, we got to do this together or it ain't gonna happen.
[26:46]
Dax Shepard
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your gas gauge before hitting the road. You genuinely thought you could make it. You were wrong. That's a very long stretch of highway where you learned exactly how far fumes can take you and it's not far enough. Yeah, checking first is an excellent plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club Incorporated in Allstate affiliate we get support from Skims. Monica has been on a whole kick lately.
[27:43]
Monica Padman
I really have. When I get new skims, it is like Christmas. I get so excited. I love skims and they have skims cotton, which I literally reach for every single day. The fabric is really soft, but it also holds its shape. There's nothing worse than Sagsville. Exactly. It's really bad. Skims never does that. Every single piece I've gotten from them still looks brand new after a lot of washes. There's no stretching. They lay perfectly and they support in all the right places.
[28:13]
Dax Shepard
You're pretty particular about that stuff too, which is saying something.
[28:15]
Monica Padman
It is, and I'll just say it. The lightweight cotton thong is the best one I've ever tried. I also have their cotton jersey T shirt. I have it in black and I really love it. It is a tight fit, but it is very flattering Sometimes. I don't love a tight fit shirt, but skims just does everything right. I really don't know what they're doing over there. The T shirt is perfect for summer. It's a great summer. Shir, go get yours. Shop skims, cotton and all of my favorite pieces@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select Armchair Expert in the dropdown menu that follows.
[28:52]
Dax Shepard
This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe your in the same spot you've been developing something, a business, a skill set, a body of work, and it's been private, it's been yours. But at some point you're ready to put it out there and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates built in. SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from I've been working on this to here it is, come find me all in one place. No code, no stitching together, a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to squarespace.comdax for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
[29:57]
Monica Padman
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[30:32]
Dax Shepard
Did you watch the recent Chili Peppers doc that just came out?
[30:36]
Tommy Lee
It's on my list of books to watch.
[30:38]
Dax Shepard
Oh, it's beautiful.
[30:39]
Tommy Lee
It's so wonderful. I'm sure it is.
[30:41]
Dax Shepard
I had read Flea's autobiography, which is an incredible book. It's so good. I'm no historian on the Chili Peppers, but yeah, it's a beautiful doc. In this friendship that they had, right? Flea and Anthony in this halal. This high school friendship where they're all outcasts, they all see each other and then addiction is just stronger, you know? Yeah, it's this like beautiful, fun thing and it's fun, fun, fun. And now people are nodding off on stage and people aren't waking up. You know, it catches everyone and it catches everyone at different times. And I am wondering, like, yeah, when you're in a band with four dudes and all of you have your own, own, your own battle going on, but it's not the same battle. Nikki was a junkie, right? He just loved heroin. Yeah, that's probably the harder one to manage in the Group if someone's smacked out.
[31:29]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[31:29]
Dax Shepard
And are you guys expressing concern for one another or are you just like, I'm not gonna fuck with you so that you don't ask me about what's going on?
[31:36]
Tommy Lee
That's a weird time when you're all wanting to look out for each other, but you're also.
[31:41]
Dax Shepard
You're addicts.
[31:42]
Tommy Lee
I can't sit here and beat you up over the dumb shit that I'm doing, too.
[31:46]
Monica Padman
Were there any adults in the room or par. Parents? Like, hey, we think things are getting
[31:52]
Dax Shepard
a little out of control here at this point.
[31:54]
Tommy Lee
Way, way beyond parents, like security guards. But people that worked with the management. People are like, dude, you guys, it's time to wrap this up.
[32:03]
Dax Shepard
I would imagine it's tough, too, when the Persona of it is working so much.
[32:09]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[32:10]
Dax Shepard
And you know, that's part of the appeal. This band, of course. Fucking Motley Crue, we're supposed to be animals.
[32:16]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[32:16]
Dax Shepard
We're delivering. How much are we in on the joke and how much are we not in on the jo.
[32:22]
Monica Padman
Yeah, for sure.
[32:23]
Dax Shepard
Right, dude?
[32:23]
Tommy Lee
Totally.
[32:24]
Dax Shepard
Are we putting on a show for them or are we getting played? Are we playing ourselves?
[32:28]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, man. Yeah. You look back at all that stuff, you think about all the times, like, you were that Persona after the show, a bunch of people coming backstage and shit. And if you're not that guy ripping out of a bottle of Jack Daniels and got a party going on and everything all crazy, they come back to your after partying go, this rules.
[32:53]
Dax Shepard
You're selling the dream of it.
[32:55]
Tommy Lee
You can't keep that up.
[32:56]
Dax Shepard
It's a performance, right?
[32:58]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Like, it's just never stops.
[33:00]
Monica Padman
You're living it.
[33:01]
Tommy Lee
I noticed that once you get sober and people come back and see you drinking a bottle of water, they're like, what's this? Yeah. Yeah.
[33:08]
Dax Shepard
That's eerie. Let's get out.
[33:09]
Tommy Lee
Let's get out of here. This sucks. You're just hanging on. Literally.
[33:15]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[33:16]
Dax Shepard
You have this heartbreaking, I find it heartbreaking statement where you said, I've been around the world a hundred times and I've seen nothing.
[33:24]
Tommy Lee
Oh, yeah. It's a weird one.
[33:26]
Dax Shepard
Think about it is. Yeah.
[33:28]
Tommy Lee
You've gone around the world that many times and you've seen the hotel in the arena, an airplane, a tour bus, and that's it. Okay. Onto the next.
[33:41]
Monica Padman
It's lonely.
[33:42]
Tommy Lee
It's a trip.
[33:43]
Dax Shepard
I wouldn't even know how to correct for it. The gap in what we've experienced and what you've experienced. But even in our tiny Experience where we do live shows and there's three or five thousand people. It's so thrilling and exciting. And then you go back to your hotel room and you're sitting and then you're like, what happened? All these people love me, like, one second ago, and now I'm completely lonely. And I don't know what the crickets in your room.
[34:05]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[34:05]
Dax Shepard
You're experiencing, like, these two enormous highs and lows within 30 minutes of each other.
[34:11]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[34:11]
Monica Padman
Well, that's why you just stay high. You just don't get to the low.
[34:16]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, yeah, I'm right. It's party time.
[34:18]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, it's party time.
[34:19]
Tommy Lee
And depending on how late that goes, sometimes it's into the next day and you know the drill.
[34:25]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[34:26]
Tommy Lee
Like it. Let's go.
[34:28]
Dax Shepard
But I think this would shock people is like your preference. Most of the time you left stage and it wasn't about a girl. It was, let's get coke and let's go back to my room and let's be by myself.
[34:40]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[34:41]
Dax Shepard
Like, the isolation. So, like. Yeah. What was the gap between. Were you having this sense of, like. Well, I know how this life's supposed to feel because I dreamt of it and I know how people think it feels, but it's not how it feels. Were you having those big gaps in, like, what everyone thought you should be feeling versus what you were feeling during the height of that.
[35:02]
Tommy Lee
Oh, dude. Full on band therapist. We'd all get together and talk about how everybody's dealing with this. This new arrangement.
[35:11]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[35:11]
Dr. Judd Brewer
New life.
[35:12]
Tommy Lee
Life. Right.
[35:13]
Monica Padman
Rock star.
[35:14]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[35:14]
Dax Shepard
The ultimate.
[35:15]
Tommy Lee
Literally.
[35:16]
Monica Padman
I mean, you're the thing all the little kids want to be.
[35:19]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. And interesting. That opens up a whole other thing. Once you start getting into therapy with the people that you work with and that are also going through the same thing, you're learning all these other things about them, and all of a sudden it's becoming really complicated at the same time. Time. Yeah.
[35:40]
Monica Padman
Like, what were you learning?
[35:41]
Tommy Lee
You learned a bunch of things about each other that you didn't really know, that nobody talked about because Nikki had
[35:47]
Dax Shepard
a pretty rough childhood.
[35:49]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[35:49]
Dax Shepard
So you're like, that's coming out.
[35:51]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. You learn about everybody's stuff there. Because we wouldn't sit around and talk about personal things.
[35:57]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[35:57]
Tommy Lee
We were too busy fucking partying.
[35:59]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[35:59]
Tommy Lee
You know, really get to know people when all that gets pulled away a bit.
[36:05]
Dax Shepard
And what would happen, like, interpersonally in a group of. Did you always have your bestie in the band or would it ping pong? Were there Periods where you were closer to this person or closer to that person was there like ebb and flow and how people paired off?
[36:17]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, it would move around but I guess Vince and I would pile up mostly. Mick was quite a full on recluse. Like he would sit in his room, windows closed, with his guitar, laying in bed. He would never come out.
[36:32]
Dax Shepard
And he was primarily drinking, right?
[36:34]
Tommy Lee
Drinking and blow. Yeah.
[36:36]
Dax Shepard
Okay.
[36:36]
Tommy Lee
And Nikki, he would stay to himself a lot. We'd go out at nights but Vince would always, let's go down to the pool at the hotel and then, you know, we'd start day drinking and we would usually be hanging.
[36:48]
Dax Shepard
You guys had the constitution to keep it public, keep it out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so now this is a funny personal story. So you guys, did you all go to treatment? I will mention all the albums do great, right? There's four before Dr. Field.
[37:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Good.
[37:05]
Dax Shepard
And you guys are up during all those. They're all great. Shot of the Devil's 5 million copies. Theater Pains, 2 times platinum. Girls Girls Girls is 4 times platinum. So it's all huge. But you guys all go to rehab in 89 and then you come out and you do doctor feel good.
[37:19]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[37:19]
Dax Shepard
And that's by far regarded critically. It's the most loved, it sold the most albums. Yeah, you guys did your best work. I don't know how sober everyone was, but full on, full on. And did that shock you? Did you start thinking you needed to be up to do what you guys did? Was it that you guys got together and worked that well sober together?
[37:40]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, it actually really was. I think between that and between a brilliant idea from our producer at the time was let's get these guys the out of Los Angeles. First of all, I don't want any distractions. These guys are finally clear headed. Yeah, yeah, let's get them away from la. We go up to Vancouver and it just rains every day there. So all we did was wake up,
[38:07]
Dax Shepard
go to the studio, drink a gallon of coffee.
[38:09]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, exactly. And then go work, go record and write and do the process. There was no like, oh it's beautiful out today. It was work. And just focus. I hate calling it's work that's wrong. Between being sober and Bob getting us the fuck out of LA to go focus on what we were there to do was genius. I don't know if we would have done that in la.
[38:35]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, right.
[38:35]
Tommy Lee
That we would have come up with that kind of work.
[38:37]
Dax Shepard
And at this point you guys have been together for nine years and you're all young Dudes, it's almost a miracle you're still together at that point to do feel good.
[38:45]
Tommy Lee
I pinch myself all the time.
[38:47]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[38:47]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I mean, how did that happen?
[38:49]
Dax Shepard
So many times that could have unraveled. Okay, now here's a fun personal experience. So when I. In 1992, 91, I worked for General Motors and General Motors got called by MTV Movie and said, we want to do a celebrity race at the Denver Grand Prix. You guys build a bunch of geostorms. Well, I worked at the race shop that built those geostorms. So I went to the Denver grand prix in like 91 when I was 16. And you raced in that?
[39:16]
Tommy Lee
Yes. I was just going to say this sounds familiar. No way.
[39:21]
Dax Shepard
You raced in it. Vince raced in it.
[39:23]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[39:24]
Dax Shepard
One of the bald ones. And then Sebastian. Bob.
[39:27]
Tommy Lee
Oh my God. Dude.
[39:28]
Dax Shepard
And I was 16, right. And I think of you anytime I have an interaction with a dude. That's terrible. I think, well, you deserve this from your Tommy Lee interaction. So I was like 16. This is great. I get to kind of formally make an amends for this. So I'm with my uncle, he's like 10 years older than me. We're kind of milling about in this little tent where you guys are at. And we're there to fucking handle the cars. And I start chatting and this is what I said. I go, yeah, I'm not really into Motley Crue, but I'm so in love with your wife, Heather Locklear.
[40:02]
Monica Padman
Oh my God, Dad.
[40:04]
Dax Shepard
I know, I know.
[40:06]
Monica Padman
That's so bad.
[40:07]
Tommy Lee
It's so bad.
[40:08]
Dax Shepard
And my uncle loved it, right?
[40:09]
Tommy Lee
And I was like, I was a
[40:10]
Dax Shepard
legend for fucking two days. Cause I said this thing to Tommy.
[40:14]
Monica Padman
To somebody.
[40:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[40:15]
Dax Shepard
And now I think every time a dude comes up to me, he's like,
[40:17]
Tommy Lee
I don't really know you, but my
[40:19]
Dax Shepard
wife thinks you're whatever. I'm like, yeah, I deserve that. Because what I said to Tommy Lair, someone comes up and I don't care for your but I love your wife.
[40:28]
Monica Padman
Yeah, exactly.
[40:28]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, I deserve that.
[40:30]
Tommy Lee
Oh my God, dude.
[40:33]
Monica Padman
Oh, man. Do you remember how he reacted?
[40:35]
Dax Shepard
Totally cool. He's like, I mean, he's talking to a 16 year old. He's like, oh, yeah. You know, he's just nice. I'm sure. Give me the. To move on.
[40:43]
Monica Padman
That's nice of you.
[40:45]
Tommy Lee
Oh my God.
[40:45]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. You're the first famous person I ever met. Because I was, yeah. 16 and from Detroit.
[40:50]
Monica Padman
Wow.
[40:51]
Dax Shepard
And then there was this crazy moment.
[40:52]
Tommy Lee
You were working on those cars.
[40:54]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, I worked for this company, Sports Fab, who had built those cars?
[40:57]
Tommy Lee
Oh. Oh, okay, okay. What a trip.
[40:59]
Dax Shepard
A total trip.
[41:00]
Tommy Lee
The world is this big, bro.
[41:02]
Dax Shepard
It is.
[41:02]
Tommy Lee
I swear to God.
[41:03]
Dax Shepard
So I want to apologize for such an obnoxious way to say hi to you 34. 5. 35 years ago.
[41:09]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[41:10]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. I didn't think I would I'd ever get a chance to say that.
[41:12]
Tommy Lee
Oh, that's awesome.
[41:14]
Dax Shepard
So how long did that period, that stretch where everyone went to treatment, how long did that one stretch last for you? And what did you find when you were sober? Like, did your life get way better?
[41:23]
Tommy Lee
It got way better. And then once again, maybe this is where it all started. The first time getting sober, remember? And whole bands doing this thing. The fucking last night of the tour. My boy Vince, last night of the tour, we played Hawaii. We finished in Hawaii, which is rad. After the show, we go over to the strip club. Vince and I head over there. The girls are walking around with the big round trays with the test tubes and shitloads of shots. Everything you could.
[41:56]
Dax Shepard
Cornucopia.
[41:57]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. It's the last night of tour. We're done. We just look at each other and we go, yeah. And he's like, yeah, the girl bring all of it. And we just started.
[42:07]
Dax Shepard
Just pick up right where you left off. Right.
[42:09]
Tommy Lee
Right where we left off. Just going bananas. Got shitty the next day. I couldn't live with the guilt. Pretty much just let our other two boys down.
[42:20]
Dax Shepard
Broke this pack.
[42:21]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. But we got to say I'm sorry. And so the whole band's in a room. I was like, guys, I up last. Last night, Vince and I went to a strip club, and the drink lady came by and it was on.
[42:32]
Dax Shepard
It was colorful, all the drinks.
[42:34]
Tommy Lee
Last night of the tour, I lost it. I'm sorry.
[42:37]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[42:38]
Tommy Lee
And I'm sitting there and I'm waiting for. For Vince to go, yeah, dude, we did it. And the doesn't say a word. Just squeeze me.
[42:48]
Dax Shepard
Oh, no.
[42:50]
Tommy Lee
I'm looking at him like,
[42:53]
Monica Padman
are you.
[42:54]
Tommy Lee
He never said a fucking word.
[42:56]
Monica Padman
How did they take it? The other guys?
[42:58]
Dax Shepard
They were bummed, but yeah, also among addicts. You're like, yeah, that's what we do. You're not that shocked ever.
[43:04]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. It's the end of the tour. You're in the right place at the wrong time.
[43:08]
Dax Shepard
The other thing I think about that would have been stressful for me. You're much sweeter, I think, than you present is even the fact that you had to admit that.
[43:16]
Monica Padman
Yeah, I know.
[43:17]
Dax Shepard
It's nice Says a lot about your spirit. And also, you're the dude who went and wanted to be alone in his garage and play his drum.
[43:24]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Drums.
[43:24]
Dax Shepard
I was on a show called Punked, right. And when I was on that show, the kind of dudes that would stop me were so aggro.
[43:32]
Tommy Lee
They're like, bro, punk.
[43:34]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You know, it was like.
[43:35]
Dax Shepard
It was so much. They'd squeal to a stop at a stoplight, just be screaming at me, and I'm like, this isn't my group. Like, I'm not into this kind of attention. Were you a bit in a prison? Like, you represented this thing that was permission to rage and get out all your teenage male. Every. Everything.
[43:54]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[43:54]
Dax Shepard
You had to interact all the time with a lot of dudes that were aggro. Was that hard to have that fan base? Not that you weren't grateful for him, but just.
[44:04]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[44:05]
Dax Shepard
Wouldn't you have rather been approached by the ballerinas, going, like, I saw you dance at Kennedy center, and wow, you're beautiful.
[44:12]
Tommy Lee
Exactly. Yeah. But you got all the. Oh, yeah, bro. Yeah.
[44:16]
Monica Padman
Crew.
[44:17]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[44:18]
Dax Shepard
No emotions, no feelings. We're never gonna talk about anything that hurts us.
[44:23]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. I love those type of people. But, yes. It's also kind of like, oh, boy, this is it.
[44:32]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. These guys want me to go berserk.
[44:33]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[44:34]
Dax Shepard
Okay. One thing I got. I think Monica would really love to know about this. I certainly did. That you had a little spell where you were a gigolo.
[44:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, yeah.
[44:43]
Monica Padman
I do want to know about this.
[44:44]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You male escort. Yeah, for a minute.
[44:48]
Tommy Lee
For a minute. Yeah. Nikki and I both were.
[44:50]
Dax Shepard
You both were. Is this in the beginning before the band blew up?
[44:53]
Tommy Lee
Very beginning, when we moved into an apartment together. And then we meet this lady who's the madame. How old is she?
[45:01]
Dax Shepard
Was she a lot older than you guys?
[45:03]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, she was a few years older than us. And that's where we met and then started talking. She's like, I got work for you guys. And, dude, this was at a time where we're all living together, and we literally. Our manager would give us $20 a week. Week to live on. Each guy got 20 bucks a week. We saw some big numbers.
[45:26]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[45:26]
Tommy Lee
And we were like, okay, it. Let's do it.
[45:29]
Dax Shepard
How many dates you think you went on?
[45:31]
Tommy Lee
Probably nine or 10.
[45:32]
Dax Shepard
And you said they were often older ladies who just wanted some companionship.
[45:37]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[45:37]
Dax Shepard
And then sometimes they wanted more.
[45:39]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, sometimes.
[45:41]
Monica Padman
Sometimes they didn't want more. Sometimes they just wanted to hang out
[45:44]
Tommy Lee
Sometimes go and just sit and have dinner with them.
[45:46]
Monica Padman
Really?
[45:49]
Tommy Lee
And that's it? Just dinner? Literally just wanted company. Just to dine with.
[45:54]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. And then sometimes they're like, I'd like you to come over.
[45:57]
Monica Padman
Yeah. And then you gotta do that.
[45:58]
Tommy Lee
And then that would happen.
[45:59]
Monica Padman
Were you able to compartmentalize? If you're just going and having these dates and sometimes having sex with them, you just, like, put that out of your mind. I think if you're a jiggle, you have to do that, right? You have to, like, compartmentalize.
[46:11]
Tommy Lee
Lights down low. Lights real low.
[46:15]
Dax Shepard
Bring the lights down sometimes.
[46:16]
Tommy Lee
But you know what? I think I was lucky too, because a couple of, like, the older women that I got, they were actually really fun.
[46:24]
Monica Padman
Yeah, I bet they were.
[46:25]
Tommy Lee
They're wild ass lady. Well, for some, you know, older lady to be hiring.
[46:30]
Monica Padman
Exactly. That's already as someone open to some
[46:32]
Tommy Lee
stuff, she's got to be pretty open and wild.
[46:34]
Monica Padman
Anyway.
[46:34]
Tommy Lee
And so a couple that I was fortunate enough to have some good times.
[46:38]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, I believe that for sure.
[46:39]
Tommy Lee
But the light's down low.
[46:40]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:45]
Monica Padman
How much money did you make?
[46:46]
Tommy Lee
Oh, I'd get 500 bucks.
[46:48]
Monica Padman
Oh, nice. Okay. 500 bucks compared to your 20.
[46:52]
Dr. Judd Brewer
1980.
[46:52]
Monica Padman
Yeah, I know. Compared to his 20.
[46:54]
Dax Shepard
One or two grand.
[46:55]
Tommy Lee
Dude, totally.
[46:56]
Dax Shepard
If you were living on 20 bucks a week. Yeah. You just 50 x 20 bucks a week.
[47:01]
Tommy Lee
You got 500 bucks for a couple hours going to Gil Turner's and stocking up on some liquor.
[47:10]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Okay.
[47:11]
Dax Shepard
How many times did the band break up and get back together?
[47:15]
Tommy Lee
I love left in 2000. So it's been a couple of times. And then in 2016, we had decided, you know what? Let's go out on a high note here. Let it rip. And not run this thing into the ground. And then all of a sudden, we're playing, like, county fairs and not so bad gigs, you know, Rather than burn it out, we're like, let's just cut it in 2016. We kind of officially.
[47:42]
Dax Shepard
I don't understand the Any motivation to do this. Like, bands do this all the time. It's like, why even declare? Who knows? Maybe you'll want to do it again in four years and maybe you won't.
[47:54]
Tommy Lee
I know we didn't want to be one of those. We just. We were like, we don't deserve to kind of fade out. Let's take this thing out at the top and then bail. The last thing we wanted to ever do was be another one of those bands that like, oh, they got back to together.
[48:11]
Dax Shepard
Right. Yeah.
[48:12]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Reunited for another.
[48:14]
Dax Shepard
They're playing at a tractor pole.
[48:16]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. We were just like, no, let's make official. And we signed this whole thing.
[48:20]
Dax Shepard
You're never allowed to perform as the band outside of the band, right?
[48:23]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[48:23]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, that part's cool. I think that's right.
[48:26]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[48:26]
Dax Shepard
But I think you guys might have miss assessed your future.
[48:31]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[48:31]
Dax Shepard
There's no reason you're not Metallica.
[48:33]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Right.
[48:34]
Dax Shepard
There's no reason you're going to dwindle into the county.
[48:38]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. I don't know. There was some weird fear we had and I think we all in general did want to go out on a
[48:45]
Dax Shepard
high note, like honor the band in a way.
[48:48]
Monica Padman
You don't want to overstay. You're welcome a little bit.
[48:52]
Tommy Lee
Yes. Thank you.
[48:53]
Monica Padman
I get it. It's like ending a show after four seasons. You could keep doing it, but it's like, no, it's done now. It's good to be done here where it's still good.
[49:02]
Dax Shepard
I mean, I agree with that. But then also, so like, I'm going to see Metallica in October at the Sphere. I can't fucking wait. You know, Rolling Stones still play plenty of examples.
[49:11]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[49:12]
Dax Shepard
Okay, so you and Theo talked about this and I want you to talk about how you can get kind of lost in a purgatory if you're a musician or anyone that does live performances. Theo related. But of course, you made a great point. It's like unlike a stand up. A stand up. You go do standup on the weekends and maybe you do one show in the week, but you're coming home to non stop.
[49:32]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[49:33]
Dax Shepard
And you're like, when you go on tour, you leave your house and you're not back for two years.
[49:38]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[49:38]
Dax Shepard
That's a wild experience, I think, mentally.
[49:42]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[49:42]
Dax Shepard
And then you guys were both relating to this feeling of like being on the road and desperately wanting to be home. And then once you're home for five
[49:49]
Tommy Lee
minutes, the grass is always greener, right?
[49:51]
Dax Shepard
Yes. How do you come to peace with that weird tension? And does it like kind of just you up permanently?
[49:58]
Tommy Lee
I still wrestle with that one. If you're home too long, you're like, I got to get out there and rock it. And then if you're out there too long, you're like, I would shoot my mom right in the back to sleep in my own bed.
[50:11]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. And is there no option to design these in impossible balance? Why can't you design these tours where you do go home once a month for a week or something?
[50:21]
Tommy Lee
We're Doing that now. As a matter of fact, you are.
[50:23]
Dax Shepard
That's how you're touring now?
[50:24]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, this summer we're going out for I think three months and that's it.
[50:28]
Dax Shepard
Okay. You start in July. Why? How much did you bring your boys on the road?
[50:33]
Tommy Lee
I'd bring them out any chance I could. Cuz you miss a lot of.
[50:37]
Dax Shepard
How old are they now?
[50:38]
Tommy Lee
My oldest son is going to be 30 in a couple days.
[50:41]
Monica Padman
Wow.
[50:42]
Dr. Judd Brewer
No.
[50:42]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. And my youngest is a year younger. They're all growed up. Yeah, yeah, they're all growed up.
[50:48]
Dax Shepard
And did you have anxiety watching them grow up? Like, oh, when is the addiction thing going to catch them?
[50:56]
Tommy Lee
No. That's crazy because I never thought that my one son is sober.
[51:01]
Dax Shepard
Oh, that's cool.
[51:02]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, he ran it like crazy. I don't know. Do you think that stuff is hereditary? Yeah.
[51:07]
Dax Shepard
The saying we love is like genetics loads the gun and trauma pulls the trigger. I believe that.
[51:15]
Tommy Lee
Okay.
[51:16]
Dax Shepard
I also believe you could just be exposed to it and pick it up.
[51:20]
Tommy Lee
Yes. I'm not sure what. Yeah.
[51:21]
Dax Shepard
Like, do you think of your childhood as being traumatic?
[51:24]
Tommy Lee
No, not at all.
[51:25]
Dax Shepard
And is addiction in your family? Family at all?
[51:27]
Tommy Lee
No, it's not. Yeah.
[51:29]
Dax Shepard
Okay. So you kind of. Yeah. You just came to it naturally.
[51:32]
Tommy Lee
I hope it's not my fault. So. No, I never really thought about that too much until it happened. And then I went, oh, what is this?
[51:40]
Dax Shepard
There's so many moments in our pop culture that are defined by you. At different moments, you're just like, you took over pop culture. What do you think you lost. And what did you gain? Gain by this really heightened experience.
[51:57]
Tommy Lee
Privacy lost.
[52:00]
Dax Shepard
We interviewed Pamela a couple years ago and yeah. Her explaining, like the tension living in Malibu with the photographers and everything that happened was just being documented sounds.
[52:13]
Monica Padman
She spoke quite highly of you.
[52:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[52:15]
Monica Padman
Like the connection you guys will always have.
[52:19]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, totally.
[52:20]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. We loved talking to her.
[52:21]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, she's great.
[52:22]
Dax Shepard
But it did not sound fun.
[52:24]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Fun.
[52:24]
Tommy Lee
No, dude, it was not. Not cool. That was a weird time.
[52:28]
Dax Shepard
It's hard enough to be wrestling. What? You and I have wrestled anonymously. That's already would be hard enough. But then also you add in this other element of the public.
[52:41]
Monica Padman
Do you think on any level you sought out the attention?
[52:45]
Tommy Lee
No.
[52:45]
Monica Padman
You don't think so?
[52:46]
Tommy Lee
Okay. No. Hell no.
[52:47]
Dax Shepard
You had enough?
[52:49]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[52:50]
Monica Padman
Found you.
[52:51]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah. I call it a magnet.
[52:54]
Monica Padman
Oh, yeah.
[52:55]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[52:57]
Dax Shepard
In 2001, the dirt, the autobiography that the band put out, came out.
[53:01]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[53:01]
Dax Shepard
That was huge. They made a movie out of it. I love hearing this you love the movie?
[53:06]
Tommy Lee
Love it.
[53:06]
Dax Shepard
That makes me so happy.
[53:08]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. It's rare. We've all seen some pretty shitty rock kind of DOC movies.
[53:14]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. Especially when your brand is cool.
[53:17]
Monica Padman
Right. Depicting its heart.
[53:18]
Dax Shepard
More dangerous for Motley Crew to participate in a show. And it's soft. That could be rough. You wrote your own biography in 05, Tommy Land. And what was it you were wanting to be known about you that wasn't known from the dirt.
[53:36]
Tommy Lee
Just more personal rather than not about the band. More what was going on in my life then. There was a lot to talk about, talk about and a lot to not get my side of anything out. Just the truth.
[53:50]
Dax Shepard
Right. Your experience through all of this.
[53:52]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[53:53]
Dax Shepard
Did you watch the man on the Run documentary? The Paul McCartney one?
[53:57]
Tommy Lee
Amazing.
[53:58]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Amazing.
[53:58]
Dax Shepard
I just watched it.
[53:59]
Tommy Lee
Jesus.
[54:00]
Dax Shepard
Dude, I'm wondering if you had this feeling, like, I never took a minute to imagine what it's like to leave the Beatles at 27. I was just like, oh, yeah, the dude's in the Beatles. He was happy. It's like, no, he's 27.
[54:13]
Dr. Judd Brewer
7.
[54:14]
Dax Shepard
He had his whole life ahead of him. He still wants to be a musician.
[54:16]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[54:17]
Dax Shepard
And he lives under this fucking shadow. He's the one guy who can say, like, I'm never going to top this thing. He can probably say that definitively. And yet he found a way to
[54:26]
Tommy Lee
do it, which is insane.
[54:27]
Dax Shepard
It's impossible. And so much failure along the way.
[54:30]
Tommy Lee
Right.
[54:30]
Dax Shepard
Like its first two albums. No one liked his band. Fucking quits when he wants to record in Nigeria. And then he writes that album that becomes as big as a Beatles album.
[54:40]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[54:40]
Dax Shepard
It's almost impossible. Right. That he was able to do it.
[54:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[54:44]
Tommy Lee
That is insane.
[54:45]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. Were you relating when you were watching that?
[54:48]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yes.
[54:49]
Dax Shepard
Like, yes, dude, same. Leave Motley Crue.
[54:51]
Tommy Lee
The age is what freaked me out. Cause I didn't realize that's what freaks you out. Because I know what I was doing at 27. I wasn't coming off the Beatles.
[55:00]
Dax Shepard
Right. Yeah. So tell me when you started doing solo work or when you did Method of Mayhem or any of these projects you've done post Motley Crue.
[55:08]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[55:09]
Dax Shepard
How much of that do you feel the weight of that? Like, oh, God. Everything will be measured against Motley.
[55:15]
Tommy Lee
Yeah, there is that. But you know what? I don't really focus on that. What I enjoy the most is, I call it, you know, my adult sandbox. It's like, I get to do creatively whatever I want to do. That is the fun part. And that's my main focus. And objective is for that kind of work outside of Motley is I can do whatever I want to do. This is such a. An exploration, you know what I mean? Like ah, dude, anything goes. I don't, I don't have somebody going like, ah, it doesn't sound like Motley. This is where I really get to wield my creativity.
[55:53]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, you got into DJing for a while. You're kind of like into electronic stuff. You're into really everything.
[55:59]
Tommy Lee
I've always been that way, man. Super eclectic. Into everything. Everything but country music, that's my only thing that I dislike. I don't know why, but I can't. When I think of country music, country music, I just cannot stop. The song comes into my mind and I don't know why, but maybe that's part of the reason I don't really like it. Put another log on fire. Check up me up some bacon and some beans. Sew my socks and wash my old blue jeans.
[56:34]
Monica Padman
You sound good singing.
[56:37]
Tommy Lee
Put another log on.
[56:40]
Dax Shepard
Aren't I always nice to your kid sister? Don't I take her driving every night.
[56:46]
Tommy Lee
Oh shit.
[56:48]
Monica Padman
Oops.
[56:49]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, so that's not, that's not the song that's going to get you into country for sure.
[56:53]
Tommy Lee
And my buddies have tried. You need to go to Stagecoach. Uh huh.
[56:56]
Monica Padman
Oh yeah.
[56:57]
Tommy Lee
It's nothing but chicks and I'm like, I'm good, I'm good, dude, I'm good, I'm happy.
[57:02]
Dax Shepard
Chick phase is over. Yeah, we're post chick phase of our life. I mean, I got to bring this up just because I almost fought him too. You got in this fight with Kid Rock. Did you guys punch me each other?
[57:13]
Tommy Lee
No. That's the craziest thing is nobody got at each other.
[57:19]
Dax Shepard
Okay.
[57:19]
Tommy Lee
There was people on us so quick pulling us apart, but there's a couple swings and a miss and then we were. Okay.
[57:27]
Dax Shepard
So this is not even a fight.
[57:29]
Tommy Lee
No, not at all. Like people like, oh yeah, punch Tommy Lee. Dude, he never touched me. Like it never happened. Yeah. I don't know what edit you saw, but. Yeah.
[57:42]
Monica Padman
What was the impetus of that? I don't even.
[57:44]
Tommy Lee
No, you know what? I got up to go to the bathroom. I come back from the bathroom and he's sitting in my seat.
[57:50]
Monica Padman
Oh, oh.
[57:51]
Tommy Lee
You know, they do that seat filler, they go to commercial. Or he just saw that I left and went, I'm going to go sit in his seat. Start. I don't know, I don't know what the objective was. But I came back and he's in My seat. And I'm like, bro, what are you doing?
[58:05]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah.
[58:06]
Tommy Lee
And he's like, you.
[58:07]
Dax Shepard
It was just on, but it's fake on.
[58:10]
Tommy Lee
It seemed intentional. Yeah, I don't think. It just was filling a seat. Yeah.
[58:17]
Dax Shepard
Okay, so explain Tommy Rides Again. You already have that album and now how do you re tackle the same album?
[58:23]
Tommy Lee
We're talking about re releasing it for its 20th year anniversary. And I just built a Dolby Atmos recording studio in my home. And once I kind of went down that rabbit hole, I was just like, oh my God, this is the most insane thing I've ever heard in my entire entire life. And I can never listen to stereo ever again after this because Atmos has
[58:48]
Dax Shepard
sound coming from what, the ceiling above, above, behind, sides, rear.
[58:53]
Tommy Lee
You're literally in the mix. You're like, are you fucking kidding me? Anyway, I'm obsessed.
[58:58]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[58:59]
Tommy Lee
And talking about re releasing for the 20th anniversary, Tommy Land the ride. And there's no Dolby Atmos mix of it. So I was like, I want to remix it and sort of reimagine it. If we're to going to do it, why not? That's what we ended up doing.
[59:13]
Dax Shepard
Are you technically quite savvy, like on the board and stuff? You are.
[59:18]
Tommy Lee
Oh yeah.
[59:19]
Dax Shepard
You geek out on that totally. When you're making music now though, does it start with drums?
[59:25]
Tommy Lee
Not always. Sometimes it'll be a guitar riff, a drum beat. It's usually there's some sort of melody in my head and I'll start banging around on a keyboard just to get the melody out. It's funny because in the Tommyland Rides Again, the new version that just came out, there's a new song called Stupid World that I put on this record.
[59:47]
Dax Shepard
I had written that in like it was Covid 2020.
[59:50]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. I'd written that around then. So going back and finding that, I was like, it is so fucking appropriate right now because the world to me, we're in a really fucking stupid place. It's just really stupid everywhere. I wrote this around Combination Covid Also a Stupid time. Yeah, also a stupid time. It was really bizarre.
[60:12]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. Really felt like the world might end
[60:13]
Tommy Lee
and I didn't think much of it. We write things all the time and put them away and you're on to something else. And anyway, so in the new studio, I was opening up some older songs and files that I'd been working on for the last few years and I found that and I was like, oh man, this is so appropriate. And going back and finding old work is really cool.
[60:34]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stay tuned for more Iron Expert, if you dare.
[60:43]
Monica Padman
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[61:19]
Dax Shepard
Have there been instruments that you've fallen in love with after doing solo stuff and wanting to create your own stuff? Have you picked up other instruments that you didn't play in the 80s?
[61:30]
Tommy Lee
No, I've always played keyboard sing. I would sing on a lot of motley demos because we couldn't get Vince to come over and sing. Keyboards, bass, guitar, drums, obviously. I kind of play enough of everything.
[61:44]
Dax Shepard
So when you're on tour this year, will you be behind the drum kit on drums the whole time?
[61:49]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. And play piano really quick.
[61:51]
Dax Shepard
The physicality. What are you, 63 now?
[61:54]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[61:54]
Dax Shepard
And you've treated your body like absolute dog. It's like shocking. You're as healthy and robust as you are. But drums, man, is a hard instrument to play, dude.
[62:06]
Tommy Lee
It's insane.
[62:07]
Dax Shepard
And when you see these, like, Jean Krupa or these old dudes who still were slain at like 70, you're like,
[62:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
how do they have even.
[62:13]
Tommy Lee
There's still. Yeah, I know. It's crazy, man. It's so physical.
[62:17]
Dax Shepard
Is it what's kept you in shape?
[62:19]
Tommy Lee
100%. By the time I get done after a two hour show, I'm toast, just physically. And then your ears, you're just laying in bed hearing, oh, wow, she's really high pitched, you know, a little squeal. You're like, okay, we're done, right? Stop. You don't realize it, man. I sweat like a motherfucker. I don't really, like, gain any size, like muscle. And I weigh the same I've weighed in high school. Like, what does this deal? What is happening?
[62:50]
Dax Shepard
What genetics do you have?
[62:51]
Tommy Lee
So I clipped one of those pedometers on my shoe. I clicked it on before the show, take it on after the show. And it said 13.3 miles.
[63:00]
Monica Padman
Oh, my God.
[63:02]
Tommy Lee
God, I just did 13 miles sitting down.
[63:05]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, from the kick drum. It was all that.
[63:08]
Tommy Lee
And I was like, okay, that explains a lot. I guess you're pretty much doing more
[63:13]
Dax Shepard
than you're doing half marathons.
[63:15]
Monica Padman
Oh, my God.
[63:16]
Dax Shepard
Do you have any repetitive Injury stuff like do you have wrists or shoulder. You held up pretty good.
[63:22]
Tommy Lee
I'm pretty good, man. I had one hand surgery because I had a. It's called dupitrens. I can never fucking pronounce it. Dupitin's contracture.
[63:33]
Dax Shepard
Okay.
[63:33]
Tommy Lee
And it's where the nerves in your hand that you have running through here, over time they start to pull. This finger was stuck, like in this position and both of these. So they had to go in and cut that and get rid of it. That's the only thing that's really physically. And that's a scary one. That's my hands.
[63:54]
Monica Padman
Yeah, exactly.
[63:54]
Dax Shepard
Do you ever wonder what you would look like had you not done anything? Because I'm inclined to think genetically you might be at a freak. Like, you might have looked 38 years old right now.
[64:04]
Monica Padman
Oh, have you not done drugs?
[64:05]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[64:06]
Dax Shepard
You've not done anything?
[64:07]
Tommy Lee
Maybe.
[64:08]
Monica Padman
I mean, can you imagine?
[64:09]
Dax Shepard
Because you look great.
[64:10]
Tommy Lee
Oh, thanks, bud.
[64:11]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. I can only imagine what you would look like if you had taken the Engelbert Humperdink route.
[64:16]
Tommy Lee
I'm looking all 18. He's fucking 63.
[64:21]
Dax Shepard
Okay, guys, that's my last question. Do you still have dreams? I'm wrestling. I'm behind you 10 years. But I still wonder how. How much fuel I have in the tank to be productive and engaged. I just might want a bonsai tree the rest of my life. What kind of like goals and motivations do you have? And do you feel like as you're getting older it's harder to give a shit about that stuff?
[64:42]
Tommy Lee
I'm not sure what that is, but not that I haven't set goals in the future. I think that I have stopped projecting. For me, at least, it gives me anxiety. Anxiety thinking about things that haven't happened or could happen or this. I feel like these days I'm living really for the fucking moment we are right here, right now. Like, Bill, that's a big change. As I used to do a lot of that to looking forward. And I think right now, these days for me, I'm really comfortable with just looking right here.
[65:17]
Dax Shepard
Do you think it helps that you've had all the dream out outcomes and the dream outcomes didn't really feel as good as anticipated? So you're like, oh, maybe it's actually not about the outcome. It's just about, like how much I enjoy it in route to the outcome.
[65:34]
Tommy Lee
That's a pretty deep one, dude, because I remember little kid jumping up and down on my fucking bed playing air guitar and playing cardboard boxes and Going like, I'm gonna be that guy. Like, I'm gonna fucking do this. Knowing that, you know? So it's weird. Like, sometimes you do have those projections, and other times you're just so pumped just to fucking be here.
[65:59]
Monica Padman
Are you proud of yourself? When you think about that little boy like, you did do it.
[66:03]
Tommy Lee
Fuck, yeah.
[66:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[66:04]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[66:05]
Monica Padman
That's so cool.
[66:06]
Tommy Lee
The one thing my poor fucking parents, all I can say, a drummer constantly making fucking noise.
[66:14]
Dax Shepard
And then when he finally leaves the house, you're like, oh, my God, is he gonna live through this? Right?
[66:18]
Monica Padman
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[66:19]
Tommy Lee
Your mom tell them. Why are you drinking so much? Yeah, all the time. Yeah, brutal.
[66:27]
Monica Padman
I do have a question. Has there been jealousy in the band? Was there jealousy amongst the members? Like, did anything get crazy? No, not really. Really?
[66:38]
Tommy Lee
I don't think so.
[66:39]
Monica Padman
That's surprising.
[66:40]
Dax Shepard
But he's in a tricky position to evaluate that because as the drummer, weirdly, he and Vince were so famous, but everyone had a lot of fame.
[66:49]
Monica Padman
I feel like maybe they'd be jealous of you because you're kind of. Yeah, exactly.
[66:55]
Tommy Lee
I don't know.
[66:55]
Monica Padman
Yeah. I think you're the lasting name that's come out of that band.
[66:59]
Tommy Lee
Gotcha.
[67:00]
Monica Padman
That other generations know. Yeah, you're right. Maybe that's a question for them.
[67:03]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah.
[67:05]
Dax Shepard
Well, I guess I want to end on this. It's just a compliment. You have navigated so much messy business.
[67:13]
Tommy Lee
You think?
[67:14]
Dax Shepard
I mean, yeah, you're from a different era, is back. Like, when you were in a rock band, you slept with someone in every city. No one had phones, no one tweeted about it, no one did anything about it.
[67:26]
Tommy Lee
No phones being the big one, no pictures.
[67:29]
Dax Shepard
You made it through that whole phase. But what I think is super telling is, like, I've met a couple folks that you've shared years with, and those folks like you a lot, so.
[67:40]
Tommy Lee
Still, that's cool.
[67:41]
Dax Shepard
I think your sweetness has really carried you throughout. A very tumultuous and what could have been many times. Thanks for playing Moments. You got to get out of here forever now. And that never really came your way. And I think it's a testament to your kind of sweetness.
[67:58]
Tommy Lee
That's sweet.
[67:59]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. No, you're just likable, Right?
[68:02]
Monica Padman
Yeah, you're very likable. But when you were upstairs, your wife did say that you posted your dick on Twitter.
[68:08]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[68:09]
Dax Shepard
How did that happen?
[68:10]
Monica Padman
Yeah, we want to know how that happened.
[68:12]
Tommy Lee
Just drunk.
[68:13]
Dax Shepard
Just drunk. Thought people had missed it.
[68:15]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[68:17]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[68:17]
Monica Padman
Because I do recall earlier I said, do you think you. Sometimes you Draw the attention. And then, you know, I am circling back to maybe there's a kernel of that.
[68:28]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[68:29]
Monica Padman
We might not be able to help it. I mean, it's like, you're a rock star. It's who you are. It's your identity.
[68:35]
Tommy Lee
Kind of expected, maybe. I don't know.
[68:37]
Dax Shepard
I've had all the addictions, but sex and love addiction, for sure. 10 out of 10 for me. And really, once I got into therapy, like, six years ago, really understanding. No, the first drug was this 8th grade girl, liked me, who was the most popular girl in the school. And I've never been higher in my life than her asking me out. Just. That was unique. Unbelievable. Do you feel like you've had that addiction? Oh, is that the first drug? Girl's approval?
[69:07]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. There was a girl in my school, in high school, the hottest chick in the whole school. Stunning, beautiful. I would just be like, I wonder if that's even possible.
[69:16]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[69:17]
Tommy Lee
No, I can't ask. I can't.
[69:19]
Dax Shepard
And then when that happens.
[69:21]
Tommy Lee
Yeah. Yeah.
[69:22]
Dax Shepard
It takes over your whole life, right? Like, when that girl likes you, you're just walking around like you are the king of everything.
[69:27]
Tommy Lee
The next thing you know, you're in your van on acid, who you thought you could never, ever be with, and you're like, what just happened?
[69:38]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[69:39]
Tommy Lee
Whoa, dude.
[69:40]
Dax Shepard
Yes.
[69:41]
Monica Padman
And then you're just chasing that for the rest of your life.
[69:43]
Tommy Lee
That kind of sucks.
[69:44]
Monica Padman
The hottest girl in the world.
[69:46]
Tommy Lee
The pace.
[69:47]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[69:48]
Tommy Lee
Fuck.
[69:48]
Dax Shepard
Which one do you think was harder to let go of? Drinking and drugs or female approval and attention?
[69:57]
Tommy Lee
Drinking and drugs. Harder. Way harder. Way harder.
[70:02]
Dax Shepard
Hard. Hard.
[70:03]
Tommy Lee
It's hard.
[70:04]
Dax Shepard
Well, Tommy, this has been a blast. I want everyone to check out Tommy Land Rides Again, remastered with a new song that's out right now. You can listen to it everywhere and then go see Tommy. Fucking play.
[70:17]
Tommy Lee
Rock shit.
[70:18]
Dax Shepard
Come to the tour. Where do people go to get tickets for the tour?
[70:21]
Tommy Lee
MotleyCrew.com is a good place. Everything's there. Dates, tickets.
[70:27]
Dax Shepard
So listen to Time Land rides again. Go see them play this summer. It'll be memorable. You won't regret it. This has been a blast. I'm glad I got to apologize for my behavior at 16 or 15. I was 15.
[70:39]
Tommy Lee
Thanks for having me.
[70:40]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[70:40]
Tommy Lee
It was.
[70:41]
Dax Shepard
Yeah. Long time coming. Yeah, dude, Totally. Be well.
[70:44]
Tommy Lee
Oh, my God.
[70:47]
Dax Shepard
Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks.
[70:56]
Monica Padman
Judd Brewer.
[70:57]
Dax Shepard
Judd Brewer.
[70:58]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Can you even think of another Judd Apatow? Yep.
[71:03]
Monica Padman
I'm Glad we had a neurologist on. Yeah, well, neuroscientist.
[71:07]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Very good timing for you and all your thoughts of neural pathways and.
[71:11]
Monica Padman
That's right, transmission. I didn't get to ask him all the questions I wanted about your ailment. Yeah, I thought maybe that would not be productive it for us, but I had questions.
[71:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
We should get an arthritis doctor on here so I can really perv out.
[71:25]
Monica Padman
So you're allowed, but I'm not.
[71:27]
Dr. Judd Brewer
No, you are. I'm just saying I'm surprised we haven't gotten an arthritis doctor that I can basically just make treat me real time in the interview.
[71:35]
Monica Padman
I know. Okay, so Judd, he talks about the two body problem, which is a dilemma for life partners. It has academia relating to the difficulty of both spouses obtaining jobs at the same university or within a reasonable commuting distance from each other. That would be very hard. It's like.
[71:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It's a.
[71:54]
Monica Padman
It's like acting, I guess.
[71:56]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And I really like the idea of professors being married for some weird reason. I don't know why. I don't care if machinists are married
[72:04]
Dax Shepard
to one another or doctors.
[72:05]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I guess I want doctors to be married too.
[72:07]
Monica Padman
Really?
[72:08]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. Cuz I imagine their work is so esoteric. It would take another doctor to really geek out on what they're interested in.
[72:15]
Monica Padman
Oh, interesting. I like the idea of a doctor with someone who doesn't know anything about medicine so they can help benefit. Yeah, exactly. You only need one doctor in the pair.
[72:25]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, that's John and Joya. Jon Favreau, he's a genius because he went out and got himself Joya, who is a emergency room doctor. And I would watch them raise kids and I thought, anything can happen. They can let anything happen because Joy is here.
[72:37]
Monica Padman
I know.
[72:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Fix everyone right up.
[72:39]
Monica Padman
That's what I want.
[72:40]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I always felt so safe knowing she's around. Like I can go into cardiac arrest. She'll handle it. Anything. Yeah, it's about the best person to have around.
[72:46]
Monica Padman
We were just talking about that the other day. My friend Laura.
[72:49]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[72:49]
Monica Padman
And I. Because, you know, we're in this group of all of our friends and we're single. Although now she has a quarantine boyfriend.
[72:55]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[72:55]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Don't put her on blast.
[72:57]
Dax Shepard
She might still have some lures in the water.
[72:59]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You're making her Facebook.
[73:01]
Dax Shepard
What's the term?
[73:02]
Monica Padman
Official? No, they're. They're Facebook official. She posted something the other day about him.
[73:09]
Tommy Lee
Oh, oh, oh, great, great.
[73:11]
Monica Padman
But anywho, generally we're the single ones. We were saying who should we date. Who's gonna add something new to the group? And what are the categories?
[73:21]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'm really glad you guys are thinking that way. Yeah, we have productive.
[73:24]
Monica Padman
Yeah, we're trying to be.
[73:25]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I think you need an ER doctor. That way I can like around on these vacations and not even worry about it.
[73:29]
Monica Padman
Well, I have been saying that I. I'd like a doctor in the group for sure. Especially people are doing backflips and stuff off the house into the pool.
[73:36]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[73:36]
Monica Padman
We need a doctor there. And somebody said this was on a girls. Marco Polo. Marco Polo. If you're listening, I'd love some free. I think it's trying to make me pay now. Oh, it's not letting me do two times and it's a problem.
[73:53]
Dax Shepard
Wow.
[73:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So that by the way, what a great way to monetize that. Because you got to go two times once.
[74:00]
Monica Padman
You're used to going two times.
[74:01]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Going back is by the way, we mean double speed. So if you use Marco Polo, it's a fantastic app. Really is phenomenal. But you'll become immediately aware of how slow everyone gets their thoughts out. It's maddening.
[74:14]
Monica Padman
Yes.
[74:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
They need a quadruple speed.
[74:16]
Monica Padman
To be honest, I think they do have a triple in this payment package.
[74:20]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Worth it.
[74:21]
Monica Padman
It probably is. I should just buy it.
[74:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You should buy for. Well, your birthday's around the corner.
[74:24]
Dax Shepard
Let me buy a year worth of
[74:25]
Dr. Judd Brewer
fast forwarding through all your friends.
[74:27]
Monica Padman
Oh, how sweet.
[74:30]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'd be happy to buy that for you.
[74:32]
Dax Shepard
Should I buy that for.
[74:33]
Dr. Judd Brewer
For Kristen?
[74:34]
Tommy Lee
For her?
[74:34]
Monica Padman
I think it's like upcoming $7. I don't think you need to buy that as her birthday.
[74:39]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Nobody would just be thoughtful. I'm so. This birthday is knocking on the back door. I thought about this idea. What do you think about this idea? I mean, we shouldn't be doing down here, but she doesn't listen.
[74:48]
Monica Padman
I'll cut it.
[74:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Maybe the viewers will text us ideas.
[74:52]
Monica Padman
Okay, go on.
[74:53]
Dr. Judd Brewer
They're listeners, not viewers. Dax, so here's what I thought the other day. What would you think about this? I'll book like five bedrooms at a hotel and I'll of get bunch a babysitter. Get on the same floor of like a nice hotel here in the city. Maybe the Peninsula or something. It'll be like the Richardsons, the Hansen's, you and we'll just all wear like bathrobes and we'll get room service and we'll lay in bed and then maybe
[75:14]
Dax Shepard
we'll go down the pool. Maybe we won't.
[75:15]
Monica Padman
Yeah, that sounds lovely.
[75:17]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Because that. Isn't that what she would want? Just to be able to lay in bed for seven hours and read her knit and do all that and then she could check in and out with you guys if she wanted to be social. She could. If she didn't.
[75:26]
Monica Padman
Right. I think that's good. Yeah, I think. I think she wants some just peace.
[75:30]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[75:31]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[75:31]
Monica Padman
So that sounds wonderful. I like that idea.
[75:34]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Okay. I'm gonna pursue it a little further.
[75:36]
Monica Padman
Okay.
[75:37]
Dr. Judd Brewer
All right.
[75:38]
Monica Padman
And I have an idea. I'm scared to say it.
[75:41]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Okay.
[75:42]
Monica Padman
But I'll say it. Maybe because maybe some. You're right. Maybe someone could help.
[75:44]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. Again, she's not gonna hear this.
[75:46]
Monica Padman
What if someone like DMs or something and is.
[75:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, don't be a dick. How about this? If you're out there, don't be a dick. Well, I guess she don't read her DMs, so I guess I'm not worried about that. It just.
[75:55]
Dax Shepard
If you know her, if we're all,
[75:57]
Dr. Judd Brewer
all friends, don't this up.
[75:58]
Monica Padman
Yeah. So that when she was in Paris over a year about a year ago and there was this chandelier that she wanted very badly and was really on the fence about what. Should I get it? Should I not too expensive. She thought it was too expensive.
[76:13]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That's why I like her.
[76:15]
Monica Padman
She's frugal and ish. She did not end up getting it. And since we've had so many conversations, she regrets it and. Was it at a. It's a vintage chandelier.
[76:28]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It's going to be at a pawn shop in Paris.
[76:31]
Monica Padman
Going to be hard to track down. But I'm going to do it.
[76:33]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, you're saving the day.
[76:35]
Monica Padman
And we're going to get it. I. I really hope it's still available. That's my. I'm worried it got bought. If you bought it. If you're a listener and you bought it, can you give it to us? Cuz it's her birthday.
[76:50]
Dr. Judd Brewer
This is the year, the exact kind of challenge for you though.
[76:53]
Monica Padman
I love it.
[76:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. This is your sweet spot. I really want tracking something down. Sleuthing gum, shoeing.
[76:58]
Monica Padman
Veronica Marsing.
[76:59]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Veronica Marsing. Yeah. It would only be appropriate that Ron Mars would get something that had had to be Ron Mars for her birthday.
[77:06]
Monica Padman
I really hope it works out. If it doesn't work out, she'll divorce us.
[77:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I guarantee I'm going to hate it.
[77:13]
Monica Padman
Because if you're not going to like the look of it.
[77:16]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, I already know that. I already know that she made the right decision and didn't buy it.
[77:20]
Dax Shepard
No.
[77:21]
Monica Padman
Why?
[77:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I just know. I can tell.
[77:24]
Monica Padman
She.
[77:24]
Dr. Judd Brewer
She buys things if. No, no.
[77:27]
Monica Padman
She. She wants it. She has said it so many times.
[77:30]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Okay. Where. Where is it going?
[77:31]
Monica Padman
I think it should go in your bathroom.
[77:33]
Tommy Lee
Oh.
[77:34]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And I won't like it, so I have to see it all.
[77:36]
Monica Padman
But it'll be over the top. It'll be.
[77:38]
Dax Shepard
I just won't look up.
[77:39]
Monica Padman
It's beautiful.
[77:40]
Dax Shepard
All right. I won't look up.
[77:41]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You've seen it and you like it.
[77:43]
Monica Padman
I can't remember if I like it. She likes it, and that's all that matters. Okay. He said that his dad was a deadbeat.
[77:55]
Dax Shepard
Okay.
[77:56]
Monica Padman
And then I kind of got interested in where that phrase came from.
[77:59]
Dax Shepard
Oh, yeah.
[78:01]
Tommy Lee
Ooh.
[78:01]
Monica Padman
I didn't really find it.
[78:02]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, okay. Because I wanted to guess.
[78:05]
Monica Padman
Well, yeah, let's guess.
[78:06]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I think it's a newspaper term. I think it's people who got assigned beats. You know, they call that in journalism. Like, you have the science beat. You have of the financial beat. I think it's a beat that doesn't generate any stories. Like, you've been given this completely dead beat. Oh, and then that just ended up. Because newspaper writers affect our colloquials, that it just emanated from there as if it emanated from sports. You know, so many of our sayings are, like, they're sports related. Don't strike out.
[78:34]
Monica Padman
Right. Yeah, yeah.
[78:36]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'm guessing. I'm guessing it's coming from. From the. The newspaper world.
[78:40]
Monica Padman
Interesting. But how does it equate to deadbeat parent?
[78:45]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, just people probably were using the, well, that's a deadbeat. That's a deadbeat. You know, it's something useless.
[78:50]
Monica Padman
Oh.
[78:51]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then it just got transferred to deadbeat parent deadbeat thing. That or the only other thing I can think of that has beats. Well, there's two walk.
[79:01]
Dax Shepard
I got two more.
[79:03]
Dr. Judd Brewer
There's beats in cop patrols. You have different beats. You could have a dead beat. Like there's nothing going on.
[79:08]
Monica Padman
So similar.
[79:09]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Similar. Mlr.
[79:10]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[79:10]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then I guess you could say musically, like, that's a deadbeat. It doesn't add anything to the song. I'm going with the newspaper guest.
[79:17]
Monica Padman
I like the newspaper guest. When I hear deadbeat, just the sound of it. I hear, like, physical abuse.
[79:24]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, no. Deadbeat dad doesn't mean that.
[79:27]
Monica Padman
No, I know that.
[79:28]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
[79:29]
Monica Padman
It doesn't mean that at all.
[79:30]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You're absent.
[79:32]
Monica Padman
Exactly. But when I hear the words dead, dead, and beat, it sounds to me like Violent and somebody was beaten to death.
[79:42]
Dax Shepard
Well, then.
[79:42]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Right, that would be. Let's see.
[79:44]
Tommy Lee
So dead.
[79:45]
Dr. Judd Brewer
B. To be beat dead. That's the phrase you're afraid of? It's the person was beat dead.
[79:49]
Monica Padman
Well, sure. I don't like that. I don't like.
[79:51]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, let me flip it.
[79:52]
Monica Padman
Okay. The legal definition defines deadbeat parents as. Yeah, I like that. It's parents. It's not really fair for us to say Debbie. Dad.
[79:59]
Dax Shepard
Even though that's fair.
[80:00]
Monica Padman
Okay.
[80:01]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It's 100. Fair.
[80:02]
Dax Shepard
Fair.
[80:04]
Monica Padman
Well, in his case, it was that. And. Yeah.
[80:06]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[80:07]
Monica Padman
Okay. The legal definition defines deadbeat parents as parents of either gender who have freely chosen not to be supportive parents or who do not pay their child support obligations. However, the label has become so generalized that the freely chosen aspect is too often forgotten. Most of the fathers lumped in as deadbeat dads are not dads unwilling to support their children. They are simply unable to afford the child support. Yeah. When 66% of all child support not paid by fathers is due to an inability to come up with the money. Calling all the dads who miss payments deadbeats is painting with far too broad of a brush.
[80:41]
Tommy Lee
Mm.
[80:41]
Monica Padman
Interesting.
[80:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
My father never paid child support. So he was. And he drove a Corvette and he
[80:46]
Monica Padman
had a lot of money, so he was technically a deadbeat dad.
[80:50]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I hate to say that out loud, but it is the truth. That's where a lot of my IR stands. That's the thing I can't make peace with. He was lovely. He was sweet to me.
[81:00]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[81:00]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then he was also.
[81:01]
Monica Padman
He didn't pay child support.
[81:02]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, he did. He loved me. But it's hard for me to reconcile the fact that he didn't pay child support.
[81:08]
Monica Padman
Is it because he was always on the verge of not having any money? He just spent it all.
[81:13]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Always. As a rule of thumb. If he had written a book on finance, it would have been spend 170% of what you make. That was his. So there were periods of his life where he actually made a ton of money. Like, I think he made almost a million dollars a year in M. Michigan in like 98.
[81:28]
Monica Padman
Wow.
[81:28]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But he went and immediately bought a million dollar house, a Jaguar, two Harley's, blah, blah, blah. He spent more than money. He had this gangster apartment in Chicago overlooking the river.
[81:40]
Monica Padman
How can he not be forced to pay? That's what.
[81:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
My mother never took him to court. That's what would have happened. She could have taken him to court for not paying child support. She could have reported him.
[81:50]
Dax Shepard
Right.
[81:51]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And she just never Did.
[81:52]
Monica Padman
Okay, so. Well, speaking of in the 80s, how many single moms? Okay. By 1980, the number of single parent families stood at 5.9 million, which represented an increase of 71% during the 70s. The rate of increase slowed significantly during the 80s, although the number of one parent families continued to increase.
[82:13]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, my parents got divorced in 1978.
[82:16]
Monica Padman
Oh. So they were part of this group.
[82:18]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I was still one of very few. Think we were the only family on our block really, that had a single parent. Yeah.
[82:26]
Monica Padman
It's so amazing how it's.
[82:27]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I mean, but it was really segregated economically, so Axford Acres was pretty nice. It was like middle class and everyone was married. But then all my friends who I liked hanging out with the poor kids from LaSalle Gardens and all these different mobile home parks, all those people's parents were divorced.
[82:46]
Monica Padman
Well, it makes sense, right? If you only have one income coming in, you're most likely gonna have less money.
[82:52]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That's true. And I think there's other factors, but.
[82:55]
Monica Padman
Yeah, yeah.
[82:56]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I think the alcoholism rate is higher. I think the domestic disturbance, you know, there's a lot of things inextricably married to low income. That's unfortunate.
[83:06]
Monica Padman
Right. But it's all connected. Right? Maybe like if you're by yourself, you're raising 3k kids, that's maybe a little miserable. And you know, I mean, and you don't have, you have one job, you don't have very much money. Like maybe you're more willing to drink. And then it's a spiral.
[83:21]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But I have to imagine there's a really high correlation between low income and unwanted pregnancies. I don't, I don't think rich kids have nearly as many unwanted babies.
[83:31]
Monica Padman
Yeah, well, exactly.
[83:33]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[83:33]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So it all feeds into itself.
[83:36]
Monica Padman
Well, and again, like health care, like rich kids, Kids get on birth control or have abortions. And there was just yesterday, this Supreme Court, the, The Louisiana abortion case.
[83:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
There's a bunch of horseshit.
[83:50]
Monica Padman
These trap laws where they say, like, you have to have the.
[83:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
One of them was the. The hallways had to be long and are wide enough to support two hospital beds passing each other at speed. Like something that would never happen at a.
[84:03]
Monica Padman
Any place.
[84:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[84:05]
Monica Padman
And this one specifically was there had to be another type of hospital within
[84:11]
Dr. Judd Brewer
some range of the clinic in case something went wrong.
[84:14]
Monica Padman
Yes.
[84:15]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then I also think maybe that those doctors also had to be resident doctors at other hospitals, which is a.
[84:21]
Monica Padman
Just insane.
[84:22]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[84:23]
Monica Padman
But it was another positive Supreme Court ruling.
[84:26]
Dr. Judd Brewer
There's been three Roberts who voted and his real allegiance, which is. Is very admirable, is precedent. That's his thing. It's like he won't let his opinion override precedent. Like, he was basically deciding. No, we've decided this case. It was Roie Wade.
[84:42]
Monica Padman
Right.
[84:42]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And this is in opposition to Roie Wade.
[84:44]
Monica Padman
There was a case in Texas, I think, more specific, that was very. It was this exact thing.
[84:50]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, okay.
[84:51]
Monica Padman
I think Roie Wade is still, like, quote, on the chopping block. Yeah. Which. Oh, my God. God. Yeah. Anyway, so. So that was good. But, you know, it's just. You see how it all ties together. Right. So if. If the clinic can't be in a rural area, then people who are in poor areas can't get abortions. And then it's just this cycle. It's like. It's all part of the same conversation we're having over and over again where especially, like, black people are, again, in these positions like that. They can't. You can't get out of. So this was good. This was a good news for the Supreme.
[85:30]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, as that systems guy told us, whatever result you're seeing is a perfectly designed system to create that result.
[85:37]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[85:37]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So if you don't like the results, you can't just wish the results are different. The system is creating them perfectly.
[85:43]
Monica Padman
Yeah. The meme that, you know, has been going around is this system is not broken. It was built this way.
[85:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah.
[85:51]
Monica Padman
It works perfectly. Perfectly.
[85:53]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[85:53]
Dr. Judd Brewer
To get the result that we're getting.
[85:55]
Monica Padman
Oh, yeah. So you Talked about the 60 Minutes Food Chemist, and I read this article, and it is. Yeah. They just actively make an addiction.
[86:05]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. And I'm gonna say I'm not. I would say I'm not as cuckoo about food as I think a lot of my friends are.
[86:11]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[86:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'm not like.
[86:13]
Monica Padman
But you. You were vegan for a bit. You've done.
[86:16]
Dr. Judd Brewer
No, I've tried things to feel good, for sure. I guess that's what I'm saying is it's. It's not my cause, per se. I'm not someone who's, like, anti GMO and all these different things, but when I saw that, I did think, like, I guess.
[86:29]
Tommy Lee
Let me.
[86:29]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Let me back up. If people want to eat McDonald's, go get them. I guess that's what I'm saying. I have friends that probably want to make that illegal.
[86:36]
Monica Padman
Right. Right.
[86:36]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So I'm like, go get them. Get fat. Die, whatever. I'm a. You know, that part of me is a libertarian. Don't die now, but don't die.
[86:43]
Monica Padman
But.
[86:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But, you know, but is your right to. With that said, I'm watching that. It's not unlike the technology in our apps where I was watching that and I realized we are defenseless. There are people that are much smarter than us and have a much better plan to trick your body that anyone would be powerless over if they make the taste disappear immediately. So, I mean, you can't compete with that.
[87:08]
Monica Padman
No.
[87:08]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And I was like, how can an individual compete with billions of dollars being spent to make you do this?
[87:13]
Monica Padman
And that's where we get into this huge ethical question. And it correlates currently to masks. Right? Yes. Everyone technically has the right to commit suicide to kill themselves, but you do not have the right to kill somebody else.
[87:32]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, it's true. It's true again. And I just want to be on record is saying, look, I am way further on the right side of the spectrum about Corona than all my friends. I've been wrong several times already, which I've admitted to, but I still am. I'm like, there ain't no stopping it unless the hospitals are overrun. Let's just get this thing going. Protect the old people. Old people.
[87:56]
Monica Padman
The hospital hospitals are starting to get really crazy here. They just sent out like a.
[88:01]
Dr. Judd Brewer
They're getting worse. They're getting worse.
[88:02]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[88:02]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You know, part of me in again, the libertarian part. Part of me is like, you know, old people are drastically outpacing the rest of the population for dying of this. And I'm sorry, I love my, my. Well, I've lost my last grandparent recently, but I love, I love my grandparents. It's on them to protect themselves. I'm sorry, it's. I. Part of me is like, you're the one that's at high risk, so you got to have your buttoned up. You got to not interact with people without mass. You gotta. But let me just. Okay, that's. I'm just telling you my position. But I still have to do the right thing ethically, even though I feel that way emotionally about it. I have to do the safest thing possible.
[88:51]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[88:51]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I have to do everything I can because some of those old people aren't going to do it and they're stubborn and they have this. That another reason. And I, I should be benevolent enough. Enough to help and I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go against what my instinct is to do. And there's no arguing that if both people have masks on, you're in the single digit percentage of transmission.
[89:13]
Monica Padman
So as opposed to 70%.
[89:16]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I guess here's my thing. It's like, oh, God, I always. I always use this. No wonder they hate me. If you're diabetic and you don't have insulin on you and you can't eat a bunch of carbs right now, it's not my job to take all the carbs out of the restaurant or not eat carbs. Herbs in front of you. It's your job to monitor your blood sugar. So if you are susceptible to this disease, you got to protect yourself. That's not my job.
[89:43]
Monica Padman
But older people generally are the ones that need a little more help. Right?
[89:48]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Right. You're right.
[89:49]
Monica Padman
If I need to help my grandma, if I'm the one in charge of taking care of her.
[89:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[89:54]
Monica Padman
And I have to go to the grocery store to buy us groceries, and no one there is wearing a mask. And now I am totally susceptible. And I bring that to them. They're being careful. That's the best case scenario. But I could bring it to them.
[90:10]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But again, and not to be a dick, but, you know, you shouldn't hang with your grandparents until there's a vaccine then.
[90:16]
Monica Padman
But. But what if they can't feed themselves?
[90:19]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, well, then you can drop shit off at their door. I mean, you don't have to interact with them.
[90:22]
Monica Padman
But older people need more help. They just need more help like mine. My mom's sister is living with my grandparents right now, and that needs to happen. That's not like she just wants to. That. That needs to happen. And so if my aunt gets it, yes, she'll probably be fine, but they will not be fine. And it's not a choice for a lot of people. And a lot of people live. You know, we're privileged.
[90:49]
Tommy Lee
We.
[90:49]
Monica Padman
We can be distant and we can do that. A lot of people don't have that luxury. They're a big family living in one. One house. And you can't separate, you know? So it is up to us to have some social responsibility to help the people who are not in the positions we're in.
[91:06]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. You know, my friend has it right now. I told you this whole story. We were supposed to go off roading.
[91:11]
Monica Padman
Uhhuh.
[91:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So my friend is a. A music producer, and he and I were supposed to go off roading and it was all set. And then he called me the day before. He's like, I'm so sorry, but I. I have to fly to M. Miami. So some big hip hop artist wanted him to come record the next morning. So he went and he was there for a few days. And then he came back. And when he got back, he goes, yo, they do not give a about Corona down there. No one had blank blah, blah, blah, blah. And then he.
[91:38]
Dax Shepard
He got it.
[91:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
He got it while he was there. So he has it right now. And I've been checking in with him to see, like, you know, how's it? He's like, it's good. You know, my breathing hasn't been affected, which is good. But he says that the day before, he was so up that his wife was talking to him and. And he couldn't. He's like, I couldn't. I thought she was speaking another language. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm. I'm going downhill. Went to bed, woke up the next morning and was like, oh, it passed. I feel back to normal. He's excited. His wife makes him his favorite meal, pork chops with this mushroom gravy. And he goes, honey, you change the recipe.
[92:13]
Monica Padman
No.
[92:13]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And she's like, no. He's like, yeah, you did. What'd you do different? She's like, honey, I didn't do anything anything different.
[92:19]
Monica Padman
He's like, oh, my God, it tastes different.
[92:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
He can't taste anything. He's like, bring me a strawberry. She brought him a strawberry. He nothing. He has no smell and no taste as of yesterday. Now, hopefully that'll return. See, but that's freaky.
[92:36]
Monica Padman
This is it. We don't know all the things yet. I'm sure it'll return. He'll be fine. But. Well, that's scary. I hope he feels better. Well, anyway, it's important to have social responsibility.
[92:48]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, again, that's the whole reason I laid out my whole thing is I'm telling you what I would want to do.
[92:53]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[92:53]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But I am saying there is a time for individual rights, and there is a time to get over that.
[93:00]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[93:00]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You know.
[93:01]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[93:01]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It's gonna be a year out of your life.
[93:03]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[93:03]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Gonna be a year of your life. Of 80 years, hopefully.
[93:08]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[93:08]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That you had to wear a mask when you left the house at the risk of getting into a fight with you, which we're gonna avoid. But I also. You do have to weigh the economy. You have to weigh what percentage of GDP drop will result in which amount of death. And then compare that potential collateral death against what the deaths would have been from Corona that you just responsibly. You have to think of that if the cure is worse than the disease, if we end up killing people because people aren't getting screened for cancer and they're not getting their. Their Vaccines on time and all these other, other things. If that number ends up being worse than Corona, then logic would tell us we. We got to just eat Corona and not because it'll be a net smaller death. Okay, with all that said, even if that was true, you wearing your mask to places has no impact on any of that.
[93:58]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[93:59]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You know, it just doesn't.
[94:00]
Monica Padman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, it's. It's a little more complicated than that. It's like, it's. It's disproportionately affecting one community, and if we just let those people die, that's not okay.
[94:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You're speaking of the black and Latino.
[94:14]
Monica Padman
Yep. Yeah. Rich people fare better. Like, that's. That's true.
[94:21]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That's how it should be. Like the guy who owned the Clippers.
[94:26]
Monica Padman
Sterling.
[94:27]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. Donald Sterling.
[94:27]
Monica Padman
Oh, yeah. He was a great guy.
[94:28]
Dr. Judd Brewer
He's a better person.
[94:32]
Dax Shepard
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
[94:44]
Monica Padman
Okay. The Swedish word for not too much, not too little. Legome.
[94:48]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Legome.
[94:48]
Monica Padman
Just the right amount. Okay. And then we talk a little about shrooms on this podcast. And it. It seems apropos for me to say, since we were quite recorded this. I have tried them.
[95:06]
Tommy Lee
Yes.
[95:07]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You tried them. And I didn't even instigate it.
[95:10]
Monica Padman
You did not even instigate it, But
[95:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I volunteered to be a part of it.
[95:14]
Monica Padman
Yes. And to be a babysitter.
[95:16]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yes. The sober, sober companion.
[95:19]
Monica Padman
And I'm very grateful that there was a sober companion there. It was. Everything you said it was gonna be, you were right. I'll say it again. I've said it a lot of times, but I'll say it again.
[95:29]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I was wrong about Corona, but I was right about mushrooms.
[95:31]
Monica Padman
You were right. It was a lovely experience, and it was really cool to see the world in a brand new way.
[95:40]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[95:40]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It's best to take your standard world you've seen all the time that you're familiar with and recognize how much your brain is in charge of assembling these photons in a way that you call reality.
[95:55]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[95:55]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then all of a sudden, your brain starts assembling them in a different way. Way.
[95:59]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[96:00]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And it is a different reality.
[96:01]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[96:02]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And it cannot be experienced without that.
[96:04]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[96:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I mean, maybe some meditators can or something, but.
[96:07]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[96:07]
Dr. Judd Brewer
To walk down a street that you've walked down.
[96:10]
Monica Padman
I know, it was. That was such a big takeaway for me is I just kept thinking I'm taking everything for granted.
[96:17]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[96:18]
Monica Padman
Like, this is beautiful. I walk down this street every. Not, you know, enough.
[96:23]
Tommy Lee
A lot.
[96:24]
Monica Padman
And And. And I'm missing it. I'm missing it every time.
[96:28]
Dr. Judd Brewer
What I think, what happens, like the best way to explain it. And we've had a lot of experts on here talk about how your brain is fantastic at filing things into the subconscious. So operating the car. You're not thinking about driving the car, you just drive the car. Because the whole program is running in the subconscious. Yeah. And we're also great at getting rid of distractions so we can focus on the things we want, which means filing everything else into that white noise category. And when you get on shrooms, it's no longer white noise. It's all right there. All these things that you've learned to ignore.
[96:59]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[97:00]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Through design.
[97:01]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[97:02]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You now can see.
[97:03]
Monica Padman
And I think probably for different people, there's a different level of that. Right. Because we talked about this on a couple episodes ago. I feel that I'm in my head all the time.
[97:13]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[97:13]
Monica Padman
And you feel that way, too. I'm in my head so much that I'm not paying attention to the physical world around me very often. Often. And. Yeah. So this was such a different reality for me. Whereas for some other people, I. I think it wasn't as extreme.
[97:34]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Right. It's not as big of a difference.
[97:37]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[97:37]
Dr. Judd Brewer
The other thing it's great at doing, and this is well documented in what's his name's book?
[97:42]
Monica Padman
Michael Pollan's.
[97:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yep. Michael Pollan's book is your brain's really, really good at comprehension you as an individual. And then the world separate from you and around you.
[97:54]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[97:55]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And shrooms breaks down the barriers a bit of your sense of individualness and your sense of detachment. And you feel like when you touch the pavement and you touch the flower, that you're really interacting with it, like, in a way that is not. I'm this and that's that. It's like, oh, we're this thing. And I don't know, there's. That's the thing I also like about it is how it kind of shatters this obsession of your identity.
[98:25]
Monica Padman
Yeah. Right. I guess. Well, so I had a tough start. I got really scared. Everyone who I trusted looked bizarre.
[98:39]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And so everyone's getting high. And I had completely forgotten. The most annoying part about doing drugs is that everyone just monitors how high they are for the first hour.
[98:48]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[98:49]
Dax Shepard
Are you.
[98:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'm a three. Are you two? I don't want. Well, look at those trees. Let's look at those trees.
[98:52]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[98:53]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Is that leaf doing that? No, this leaves not doing this. Is that leave doing this?
[98:56]
Monica Padman
No.
[98:56]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I can't feel anything. I'm too high. The whole thing.
[98:59]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[98:59]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I was like, I need to step out until everyone just feels high. So I went inside and I started playing Words with Friends.
[99:06]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[99:07]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I was gone for 20 minutes, and then it really hit you.
[99:09]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[99:10]
Dr. Judd Brewer
20 minutes.
[99:11]
Monica Padman
Yes.
[99:11]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And you were like, what the. You told me you're gonna help me
[99:15]
Dax Shepard
and you've abandoned me.
[99:16]
Monica Padman
Yeah. I felt like you gave me drug. Like, well, a lot. I felt like we've been talking about this for years. You've been trying to get me to do this for years and then you. You left.
[99:27]
Dax Shepard
Yes.
[99:28]
Tommy Lee
Which.
[99:28]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Which I did. I was very regrettable. But of all the people that were doing it. You were 0% high. You were saying. I was?
[99:36]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[99:37]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I was like, oh, she's not even high. And this conversation is annoying. I'm gonna go inside.
[99:41]
Monica Padman
I wasn't high. And then all of a sudden, I looked down at my hands because you had said that when. When you do shrooms, you look at your hands a lot. So I was kind of checking in with my hands to see, and they were normal. And then all of a sudden I looked and then they shriveled up into grandma hands right in front of my eyes. And it was so startling and scary. And I thought, am I a grandma now? Like, I didn't know what was happening
[100:11]
Dr. Judd Brewer
and I grandma now.
[100:14]
Monica Padman
And then immediately I felt really unsafe and then abandoned.
[100:18]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. And again, there's like layers of real life. This is why they're therapeutic. It's like whatever thing you really fear, it is going to be the loudest thing, that if it goes wrong, that it'll be the first thing that comes after. So it's like in real life, you're so linked to my train and Kristen's train, and there's a certain amount of powerlessness in that.
[100:37]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[100:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And what if we just disappear and you're so linked to it? And then I just disappeared. Like it happened.
[100:44]
Monica Padman
I know it was bad. And I. And I was crying, which was, I think, a bummer for everyone. And then, then you came out. You came out to check on us. Well, I was like, oh, he's coming back. And then you came back and then you looked fuzzy.
[101:05]
Tommy Lee
Huh.
[101:06]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You didn't know if I was real. By the way, when I. When I did come outside, you were crying and you were also laughing. You know that? You were like, you were like, you were. You were bouncing back and forth between crying and laughing.
[101:16]
Monica Padman
Because. Because we were telling the story about Ryan's dad calling.
[101:21]
Tommy Lee
Uh huh.
[101:22]
Monica Padman
And I Was crying during that. Because. Because I was not literally paying attention. I was crying. But then Ryan was like, monica hates this story. And then I started laughing because obviously I was not thinking about the story, but that was, like, a funny thing to say, but I was still crying.
[101:36]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when I got very involved, you were. You were thinking you couldn't breathe.
[101:41]
Monica Padman
Yeah. Yeah.
[101:42]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then you were really scared. And then I was like, okay, we need to reset. Let's go out on the street, and let's take a little walk. And no one's ever stopped breathing. Unshrooms. And your body knows how to breathe. You don't have to think about breathing. Breathing.
[101:51]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[101:52]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And then you came back.
[101:53]
Monica Padman
I did.
[101:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And it was so impressive because when I saw you, I was like, oh, man. I told her to do this. It's gone south.
[102:03]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[102:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Generally when it goes south, it stays south.
[102:06]
Monica Padman
Yeah. Yeah.
[102:08]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I really kind of misled you. And I was very pessimistic and bummed. And then 15 minutes into the walk, things started changing. And then you just had this very beautiful ride. It was so sweet.
[102:22]
Monica Padman
Well, you. You said, listen, you can choose for
[102:26]
Dr. Judd Brewer
the next three hours. Things are going to be up looking.
[102:29]
Monica Padman
Yeah. And you get to decide how you see it. So I chose to enjoy it and. And find it beautiful. And I did it. And it was. It was really spectacular. Yeah, it was really cool.
[102:44]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I was so happy on the ride home in the minivan. Chrysler Pacifica. No better vehicle to have a. Someone unshroomed.
[102:51]
Monica Padman
Okay. We don't need.
[102:52]
Tommy Lee
No, I love it.
[102:53]
Dax Shepard
I love it, I love it, I love it.
[102:55]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I just go, you were right. This isn't to be missed on planet Earth. And I was like, oh, thank God. Yeah.
[103:02]
Monica Padman
Yeah, I. I feel that. I feel that.
[103:04]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah, it was real. Yeah, it was real. I was like, man, I fucking. I would have put that on like, if. If that hadn't gotten turned around. That would have been as bad as if you didn't end up getting your house after I said, you're gonna get that.
[103:17]
Tommy Lee
So it goes.
[103:18]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It was that level or worse.
[103:20]
Monica Padman
You put a lot of pressure on yourself, but you shouldn't have. But it.
[103:23]
Dr. Judd Brewer
No, it was dumb that I split. But again, you really weren't high at all. Everyone else was a little high, and you simply weren't. I was like, who knows, man?
[103:32]
Monica Padman
It hit so fast, in my opinion. Maybe not. Maybe it was more slow than I thought.
[103:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Well, that's another thing that just is. Is relevant, is that the initial idea was that people were going to Micro dose, which I was against. I was like, there's really no point
[103:47]
Dax Shepard
in micro dosing in my opinion.
[103:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Now it might be great for people with, like, severe depression and they can do it and still work. And I. I have no opinion on that. But, yeah, for the experience, I wanted you to have microdosing, isn't it? So.
[103:58]
Monica Padman
Right.
[103:58]
Dr. Judd Brewer
It started as a micro dosing experiment.
[104:00]
Monica Padman
Yes.
[104:01]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Quickly, no one felt anything. So then you guys doubled the microdose dose, which still I was like. To do what I know you should do, which is like, have a cap and a stem and let's see what happens.
[104:11]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[104:12]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So after. This is what also made it really tricky for me to help navigate you guys, is like, you guys took the
[104:18]
Dax Shepard
one pill, then you.
[104:20]
Dr. Judd Brewer
25 minutes later, you took another pill.
[104:21]
Dax Shepard
And then, then I go.
[104:23]
Monica Padman
Some people had.
[104:23]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Then I go get real shrooms and bring. Yeah, some.
[104:25]
Dax Shepard
Someone's eating chocolate.
[104:27]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'm like, who even makes this chocolate? Do you guys? That could have 10,000 milligrams of psilocybin or 1. What do you know? So, so then real mushrooms were procured in real form that I knew about.
[104:39]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[104:40]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Caps and stems. But at this point, that's now 75 minutes from when you guys took the fur. And I'm like, you guys, this whole
[104:47]
Dax Shepard
thing, you should have just done a campus stem at the beginning.
[104:50]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Like I said. Now, God knows I think this would
[104:53]
Dax Shepard
be good for you.
[104:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But anyways, it was left to me to basically dose you guys.
[104:57]
Monica Padman
Yeah. Yeah.
[104:58]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So I picked for everyone what they should have. And for the most part, I did a good job.
[105:02]
Monica Padman
Yeah. And that was another part I'm remembering now. So, okay, first of all, yes. I went in thinking this is going to be a micro dose situation, that maybe some colors are going to be a little brighter than normal.
[105:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[105:14]
Monica Padman
So my expectations were not set correctly. And then it did. They didn't catch up to when we.
[105:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But you. You kept changing your opinion, too. Like, I want more. Like, I feel nothing.
[105:26]
Monica Padman
Oh, well. Well, I was like, well, now that I've done this, yeah, I better feel something now. I did not want to feel like my. My hands were grandma hands.
[105:37]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[105:37]
Monica Padman
I just wanted what I was promised, which was that the world was going to be a little brighter and sparklier or something.
[105:43]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Which you had been told from other friends who had microdosed.
[105:46]
Monica Padman
Correct.
[105:46]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[105:46]
Monica Padman
So. So I was like, let's take more. But I was. I was not in the headspace that I was going to, like, take a full D. Yeah.
[105:55]
Tommy Lee
Yeah.
[105:55]
Monica Padman
So anyway, so when you were Doing dosing us. You said to me, I think you should take this. And I said, really? And you didn't like that I said that?
[106:05]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I didn't. Because in my defense, I had lost complete control. You, like, you guys had taken the one pill, then the second pill, and I would. At this point, I was like, if you want me involved, let me do this.
[106:16]
Monica Padman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand your point of view.
[106:19]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Like, I already said, don't do that.
[106:20]
Dax Shepard
Now we're here, and now it's time
[106:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
for you to listen to me. So I was. I was losing patience.
[106:25]
Monica Padman
Totally. I understand that. And I was scared.
[106:29]
Tommy Lee
Shocked.
[106:29]
Monica Padman
Yes, I was scared. And I was just like, are you. Like, this seems like a lot.
[106:34]
Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah.
[106:35]
Monica Padman
And in my defense, I was right. Like that. That.
[106:39]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That wasn't a micro dose.
[106:40]
Monica Padman
Exactly. I was like, this is what I'm doing now. But I was skeptical, and you didn't like it. And then I felt like, okay, now he's mad at me about that.
[106:49]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But you weren't the only person arguing with it. But if you recall.
[106:52]
Monica Padman
Yeah, but you snap. Snapped at me.
[106:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Of course I did.
[106:55]
Monica Padman
I know. Exactly. So I.
[106:59]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And you know why? It's actually probably not that we disagreed about that. It's the. I want you to trust me, and I'm pissed you don't trust me because I would never.
[107:10]
Monica Padman
I know.
[107:11]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Not take care of you. Although 20 minutes later, I did not take care of you.
[107:14]
Monica Padman
Well, that was part of it. That was part of it.
[107:17]
Dax Shepard
So.
[107:18]
Monica Padman
So I said, okay. Okay, okay, okay. And then I. I did it. And then I was like, are you serious? You got mad at me when I. When I pushed back, then I said, okay, and now you're gone.
[107:34]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[107:34]
Dr. Judd Brewer
You had a big grievance. You had a legitimate grievance.
[107:38]
Monica Padman
Oh, boy.
[107:38]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But it all worked out.
[107:39]
Monica Padman
It all worked out. It all worked out. It all worked out, and it was lovely. And I am very grateful for you. And I'm very grateful you were there. And I would not have been able to turn around if you weren't there.
[107:47]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, well, I'm. So. It made me so happy that you guys had such a sweet night. Yeah, it was really funny, too, because of the. I'd say the success of the evening.
[107:56]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[107:56]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And it's kind of dissipated through our friendship circle. A couple different people told me, like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go with my girlfriend, and we're gonna do it. I forget where. And I was like, cool, and your girlfriend's done it, and. And she's like, no, no. And I'm like, no. I'm like, you can't go to a new. They're gonna go to some place they've never been.
[108:16]
Monica Padman
No.
[108:17]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Neither person have done it. I'm like, I'm telling you, you will convince yourself that you've got the one bad batch of mushrooms and you're gonna die. That's what's gonna happen if there's not someone there who's either done it a bunch or sober. Like, I am totally to go. Everything's chill. No one's ever been hurt. Let's start thinking about this.
[108:33]
Monica Padman
I agree.
[108:34]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[108:34]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I would not recommend two people on their own experiment. My friend Greg introduced me to it. I'll never forget. What a day. I think I was about 18, I was out of high school, and I was just like living in Detroit and working for my mom. And I worked with this guy Greg, who I love so much, and he had this big jar of shrooms.
[108:53]
Dax Shepard
He's like, yeah, if you ever want to do them.
[108:55]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And he was a normal guy. He wasn't a druggie. Yeah. Like, if he had been like a druggie type, I wouldn't have trusted him. But he's a pretty straight laced dude who believed in psilocybins at a young age. He came, came over and four of us did them at my mom's house. And then we wandered into Camp Dearborn, which I had been in a million times. I knew what it was supposed to look like.
[109:11]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[109:11]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And we wandered around the Toboggan hills and I found a bulldozer that had the key in it, and I drove a bulldozer.
[109:18]
Monica Padman
Okay, I don't love that part, but
[109:20]
Dr. Judd Brewer
it was such an incredible time. It really was. And there's nothing grimy about it. Like, if you do coke, you get fucking gross. If you do ecstasy, you get pretty gross. You do meth, you get gross.
[109:32]
Monica Padman
Gross.
[109:33]
Dr. Judd Brewer
A lot of these drugs, they, you know, they bring out the pleasure center of your brain.
[109:37]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[109:39]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Shrooms is not that at all. Shrooms is. There's nothing grody about it.
[109:43]
Monica Padman
No.
[109:44]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Also for anyone who would want to sue me in the future because I told you to do it, I'm telling you not to do it. Don't ever do shrooms. I am not condoning anyone to do shroom.
[109:53]
Monica Padman
You're not allowed to do it.
[109:54]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I'm not encouraging anyone to and I'm not liable. But my experience, experience with shrooms was this and yours was that.
[109:59]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[110:00]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Just be very clear.
[110:01]
Monica Padman
Yes. Yes.
[110:02]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Some armchair Gets looped up and rides a bicycle off a bridge.
[110:06]
Dax Shepard
I don't want anything to do with that.
[110:07]
Monica Padman
No, no, no.
[110:08]
Dr. Judd Brewer
We're not advocating condoning now. This is our experience that we're sharing.
[110:14]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[110:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
We had a really funny moment where I kept pointing things out to Monica again because I've done them a hundred times, and I know what's gonna. What, Things are gonna look cool on it.
[110:22]
Dax Shepard
What aren't?
[110:22]
Dr. Judd Brewer
So I'm like, oh, Monica, look at the wood here. Look at the. Look at all the grain in the wood. And I'm like, look at that house. You think there's a sitcom going on in there or a drama. And then you go, how do you know that? Are you on it? Are you making me think that, or do I think that? And you also, like, it was so funny.
[110:37]
Monica Padman
And then I thought you weren't real because I thought maybe you were just in my brain somehow and you were
[110:43]
Dax Shepard
out on your own walk.
[110:44]
Monica Padman
Yeah, I did. Because I was like, oh, my God. You know everything I'm thinking, so.
[110:47]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Which can't be.
[110:48]
Monica Padman
You must be in my brain, which means you're not real. That was another big takeaway away was. Which, you know, I think we know this in life. But it was so apparent how affected we are by other people and other people's energy. So when I say I bummed everyone out, I think that's for real. Like, I'm really glad you pulled me out quick because everyone probably would have started getting really sad really quick.
[111:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[111:15]
Monica Padman
Because your energy is so infectious. And if you point something. Something out and. And it looks weird. Like a grandma hand.
[111:23]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah.
[111:24]
Monica Padman
When I saw it first, I was like. And one of the other participants. Yes. Was like, I know, I know, I know. Yeah. And then we both were kind of feeding off of, like. Oh, that. That got really scary real quick. Okay. Okay.
[111:39]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[111:40]
Monica Padman
But then later, when another participant was looking at hands, she was. Was like, isn't it cool?
[111:48]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[111:49]
Monica Padman
And then I was like, it is
[111:51]
Dr. Judd Brewer
cool to look down at your own hands that you've been staring at your whole lifetime. And for them to be different is awesome.
[111:58]
Dax Shepard
It is.
[111:58]
Monica Padman
But you can choose. You either can see it. Look, both things are true. It is scary to see something, you know, to be real and substantial in front of you, not be that. And it's also cool. So whatever you say can have such a big impact on the people around you. And that's just, like, so true about life.
[112:18]
Tommy Lee
Oh, yeah.
[112:19]
Monica Padman
Your energy and what you say.
[112:21]
Dr. Judd Brewer
But again, it does go to that thing I was saying. Where it's kind of eroding these walls between us, where it's like, it is so transmissible.
[112:28]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[112:29]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Like love's more transmissible.
[112:31]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[112:31]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Fear's more transmissible. It's all more transmissible.
[112:34]
Monica Padman
But the thing is, I don't know that it's more. I think it's the same amount as what we're doing day to day. We're just not as aware of it. Our energy does that on a daily basis.
[112:47]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I don't agree, though, because the participant you're talking about in general life, that person could make an observation. You would go, well, yeah, of course she sees it that way because she's this. She's this thing. She's that thing. She's this thing. But I'm this thing, that thing and this thing. So it's not the same for me. Like, I go, of course that guy thinks that. I always do this. Like, anytime I have a disagreement with someone's perspective, I immediately try to figure out why their perspective's different. I don't assume that their perspective is correct.
[113:14]
Monica Padman
That's true.
[113:15]
Dr. Judd Brewer
I think of the reasons why we have different ones. But you can really share perspective in a way on shrooms that it's hard to share.
[113:21]
Monica Padman
I guess I mainly mean more energy wise. Like, if people are happy, you can. You can borrow that energy.
[113:30]
Dax Shepard
Yeah.
[113:30]
Monica Padman
But if someone is sad around you, that has an impact, whether you. You can logically be like, that's separate from me. It is seeping in.
[113:40]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Oh, yeah. Well, anyone who has a partner who has depression has experienced that.
[113:47]
Monica Padman
Yeah. Yeah. So it's again, social responsibility. You got to take care of yourself so that you can take care of people around you. You.
[113:56]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Yeah. When are you gonna do it again?
[113:59]
Monica Padman
Not in a rush to do it again. It was wonderful. But I definitely don't feel like I gotta do that next weekend again.
[114:05]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That's. Yeah, that's the thing. I'm talking. It's not like getting drunk was like, that was fun. I want to get up tonight. There's something. It's. We. It's a little exhausting.
[114:13]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[114:14]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Like the next couple days, you're aware that you went through this thing for sure. In a. In a nice way, though. In this, like you're tapped into some emotion.
[114:24]
Monica Padman
Yeah.
[114:24]
Dr. Judd Brewer
That's sweet.
[114:25]
Monica Padman
Yes.
[114:25]
Dr. Judd Brewer
And you can feel it. And you're not anxious to get back in the fire because you're processing right and trying to understand it. All right. Don't do it.
[114:33]
Monica Padman
Don't do it.
[114:34]
Dax Shepard
Don't do it. Drugs.
[114:35]
Dr. Judd Brewer
Don't do them.
[114:37]
Monica Padman
Okay. Love you.