A

Tell me a parenting issue everyone struggles with with tweens and teens, but no one talks about Rena.

B

I think a lot of people feel like they just don't know how to connect to their kid anymore.

A

I'm Rena Neinen and welcome to Ask Lisa the Psychology of Raising Tweens and teens.

B

And I'm Dr. Lisa Damore. We bring you science backed strategies for managing anxiety, discipline, intense emotions and more.

A

We decode tough parenting issues with tips you you can use right now. So subscribe to Ask the Psychology of Raising Tweens and Teens and join our YouTube community. Today, just Google Ask Lisa podcast.

B

We're here to help you untangle family life. Encore. Episode 277 Embracing ADHD with Penn and Kim Holderness. Hey friends, if your child has been diagnosed with ADHD or you suspect they might have it, this episode is going to change the way you see your kid. You may know our guests Penn and Kim Holderness from their smart and hilarious viral videos on YouTube and they've lived with ADHD in their own family. They join us for a candid, funny, and really moving conversation about what ADHD actually feels like from the inside and and how to live with a family member who has it. We discuss how to talk with your kid about the diagnosis, build up the systems they need to thrive, and help them to appreciate all of the strengths that come with adhd.

A

Oh my gosh. I have watched the videos for the couple we're about to bring in, like, over and over and over again. It has gotten me through like some of the worst times in life. I feel like the humor and also to see like a dynamic married couple nailing it over and over again. The way they do their content, it's so great.

B

They're so awesome. Like such a bright light and such a source of joy and also like, spot on. There was recently one about husbands not closing cabinet doors. I was like, oh my God, they're in my house. They're in my house.

A

So, you know, I guess the best way to describe our guest today is one of the coolest families in America. I mean, what more can you say? They're funny and viral videos, they have gone all over the place. You've seen them. My new favorite is actually the one on menopause. It's just so good. The Holderness family joins us today. Penn and Kim have also co authored an insightful book called ADHD is Awesome. It's a guide to mostly thriving with adhd. That's the title. And they're going to share their Personal experiences and strategies for navigating life with adhd. And I love the way they kind of flip this concept on their head. Kim and Pen, thank you for joining us.

C

Hi. Thank you for having us. That intro, I mean, anytime I need an ego boost, I'm just gonna move on.

B

But it's all true. It's all true. We just adore you. We thank you for what you do.

C

Oh, my gosh. Thanks for having us. We're excited to be here.

B

And, Penn, great to see you. Great to see you.

D

Yes, as always, it is an honor being in whatever kind of room it is with you guys, whether it's a real room or a digital one.

B

Any room. We'll take it. All right. We have so many questions for you about this book, but I have to do a little just, like, upfront gushing, and I could go on a great length, and I'm going to try to contain this.

A

She doesn't gush often, just so you know.

B

I don't.

A

She really doesn't.

B

Okay. First of all, I don't know if you know this, how many of my clinical colleagues now make your book required reading for the kids in their care, the families in their care.

C

Wow.

B

Around ADHD and also pretty much anything executive functioning that you. It is really seen as an essential text to help families understand their kid and connect to their kid and take better care of their kids. So I just want you to know that.

C

Oh, that's huge. That's huge.

B

And then the other thing I just want to say, before we take one more step and then we're going to just get down to it, as I was reading through your book, I was like, okay, they have done something extraordinary here, which is they have undercut shame. And if I think about, like, the forces that I contend with as a clinician that are the most destructive, I don't think anything outmatches shame. Shame is the most destructive, the most toxic emotion I ever deal with. Clinically, it is like a black hole that sucks all goodness into it. And in this book that is just like you guys, fun, entertaining, highly engaging, and brilliant, you also accomplish, like, a clinical, like, extraordinary thing in taking the shame out of adhd. And that is just like. I cannot overstate the level of accomplishment from the perspective of a clinician. So I just. I want to say all of that before we even get down to business, but I just want you to. I just want you to know that

C

you're gonna make me cry.

A

I am crying. I'm practically crying.

C

Yeah. I think that Penn is The one with adhd. So I should probably let him react to that. But our. You know, we didn't talk about in the book, but our son has since given us permission to acknowledge he's 15, he has ADHD, and 16. Seeing it as a mother, seeing the shame monster related to ADHD kind of grab hold of, like, this bright, you know, perfect brain. And so it is such a real thing, especially with adhd. And to hear. Just to hear that is so huge. So thank you.

D

Well, you're welcome.

B

But thank you.

D

I mean, we can talk about this as much as you want to, but the book came. It's a fun book, but it came from shame. That's. That. That's the reason why I wanted to write it. I got picked on a lot, and I didn't know why. I felt ashamed, and I didn't know why I did not understand what exactly it was that was wrong with me and why I didn't fit in the way that everybody else did. And I can't go back in time. But the hope was that maybe some other people can understand this and use it as a tool when they're trying to grow up or even be an adult, because it does follow you into adulthood.

B

Yep. Oh, man. It's such an accomplishment. Okay, so we're gonna start asking you questions. We've got some from us and some from our listeners, and we're just dying to have this conversation. Okay, so in the book, talk us through Pen, how you got the diagnosis, when you got the diagnosis, what it felt like to get the diagnosis, if you had suspected before you got the diagnosis that maybe you had it. Like, talk us through all that.

D

Yeah, well, I'm old enough that no one was curious if they had it, because it wasn't a name that people said. This was the. I'm. I'm 50 now. So. I was in the playground in the late 70s, early 80s. I was in college in the early 90s. I. I really didn't. I knew that there was something different about me. And I got through school largely because my Ritalin was my mom. Like, my mom was my. She was the drug that. That kept me on track, that, like, you know, crossed the eyes, crossed the T's and dotted the eyes for me, kept my room clean probably to the extent that I needed to learn how to do that. When I got married, a little bit better, for sure, but really kind of was over my shoulder for schoolwork. And, you know, I did a. Well enough in standardized testing that I got into a good school. But as soon as I got to school and my Ritalin was gone, which is my mom, I crashed. I. I went on academic probation twice. That's to say, I almost flunked out of school. I had a friend who mentioned she had ADHD and that I clearly had it when I was, like, in my third year in college, but, you know, there was no way of really knowing. That same year, I was at a funeral for my grandmother. And it's so funny. Like, a lot of fidgeting and stuff happens during stressful points. You probably know this, but our family was sitting around talking about what we were going to do with our. Our beach weekend that we always do because our. Both the grandparents were now gone. And, like, this really important part of my life, this, like, two weeks every summer when I get to see my cousins, was going away, and I was, like, sitting there thinking about it, stressing out, and, like, very, very sad. It was probably the saddest I was the entire weekend, even though my grandmother had passed. And my Aunt Zell, in the middle of this conversation, she goes, hey, I'm sorry. I. I cannot concentrate on this conversation. Pen, would you please stop chewing on that fly swatter? So it was a huge fly swatter, a used, dirty. I know where there are a lot of flies. Yeah, Heavily used fly swatter. And everyone laughed. I'm glad I gave them a chance to laugh. Like, that was nice. But I was deeply embarrassed. And so I was old enough to drive myself to a doctor at that point and say, doc, this just happened. They. They had these little computer tests and diagnosed me with a scorching case of. Of add. I think it was. It was ADD at the time.

B

I think that's right. But I also. You use the term scorching case in the book, and you tell the fly swatter story in the book. And I'm like, this is so good, because, again, about getting past shame and, like, this is what this looks like. It does not need to be a source of shame. It needs to be understood.

C

No.

D

Yeah.

A

Kim, I am just curious, you know, as someone who's with someone with adhd, what were some of the first challenges you noticed? How did you have to navigate this and work through? Because I think a lot of parents who might not have ADHD don't even know where to begin and what to look for.

C

I will first start by saying that all of Penn's adhd, like, his. His quirks and spontaneity, and that was part of the charm, right? So when we first started dating, like, you know, he was when we met. He was a life of the party in high school. He'll tell the story in middle school. I mean, he had trouble maybe connecting with groups and making friends, but as an adult, it was amazing. So that's really what. I fell in love with that. And then, of course, you get into relationship, and then you live together and you're like, oh, wow, you really. It wasn't even an awareness in his brain, like, putting things away, closing cabinet doors, putting laundry away, like, those things. And I. I had to learn that, okay, He. He walks in the door like he can't find his keys in the morning. And so we retraced his steps because I know that his. His. His memory, his working memory. He's so hungry, he goes straight to food. He puts his keys in the refrigerator to pull out the sandwich because, like, yeah, naturally. So I'm like, okay, let's look near. We know to look near food for. For things that's off. So I. I have. It took me years. It took me years to realize that he wasn't doing this just to piss me off, because I. We would talk about these things, and I'm like, why can't you. And even with my son, I'm like, you did the homework. Why can't you just turn it in? And I had. I really had so much learning to do that. Like, those really easy things are really hard for that type of brain. It's easy for me, but I had so much learning to do. And part of that was like, offering grace in those moments, offering those great, you know, when we, you know, can't. We can't leave because we can't find the keys again. It's, It's. It is what it is. Like, we just have to let things go. So I've learned a lot through this process.

B

You know, I learned so much reading your book. I mean, this is obviously my field, but just the way you wrote it. And I actually feel like everyone should read this book because everyone's going to interact with a person who has adhd, whether it's a relative or an employee or a boss or a colleague, and the amount of compassion that it helps one cultivate and understanding and appreciation for the ADHD brain. I just sort of feel like this is just a good book for humans to have read, you know, no matter what, across the board. Okay, here's a question from one of our listeners. How do I talk to my kid, who's a tween, about the fact that we're going to have him evaluated for

D

ADHD we get this question a ton. And as a non doctor, I struggle to give a really, really good answer, except to come at it from a place of love and understanding and not a place of frustration. Because a lot of times when you are asking that question, it's because you've reached your wit's end and you don't understand why this person can't do the things that are, that are easy, at least seem easy to you. So my advice is to start with something like they're good at, something that they're a strengths based approach, something that they're knocking out of the park. Like, it's pretty amazing how creative you are. It's pretty amazing how you can, when you really care about it, you can really drill down and I mean, maybe even like be great at playing a video game, whatever it is that you can like dedicate your mind to and actually accomplish and say something like, that's amazing. I can't do that. You can do that. But I've also noticed that there are some things that maybe are more difficult to you that are easier to other people. There is a condition that explains this. It is a brain difference and there's a way to diagnose it. And if, if you have it, we can get you pointed in a, in a new direction that you might actually really like. I've just. It's so hard.

C

I think that's awesome.

B

I thought that was awesome.

C

I mean, we had to.

D

Yeah.

C

Well, our son, we just assumed he had it, but it was recommended. Like, just make it official, you know, just, just make it official. Just so if he needed accommodations down the road. So he was diagnosed in seventh grade, but still he, he kind of resisted it too. Like, what does it matter? This is my brain. And how we explained it to him at the time was, it's just good to know about what kind of brain you have. And these sort of testings can, can kind of tease out what you're really good at and how you would learn best. So if you need to have a separate place for taking tests or whatever it is, you, you need this documentation, you know, to do it. So you know that that's. And we're having to redo it again because he had to redo it every three years. So he just went through it again.

B

Yeah, no, it's a whole, that's a whole thing. And I also like the kind of matter of factness, you know, that you're like, this is just how this works and it just is going to teach us things. And then it's going to help us help you learn better and point you in a direction. I love pen. What you said about pointing you in a direction I think you might really like. So gentle and so kind. So just in time for summer, Element has released a new product that is already part of my daily routine. It's a lemonade iced tea that has some caffeine in it. It tastes great, but it also really keeps me going. So much so that now it's worked into my routine. So here's what I do and I did this this morning. I wake up, I have my cup of coffee, but then instead of reaching for a second cup of coffee, I have some lemonade iced tea for a few reasons. One is I actually love the taste of it. It tastes great. Two, it has some caffeine in it. And because it's an Element product, it has all of the electrolytes that really help us stay energized. And this is something I've learned over time that we actually don't produce energy through drinking tons of caffeine. That just masks fatigue. We actually produce energy through the electrolytes that we have in our body. Get a free 8 count sample pack of elements most popular drink flavors with any purchase@drinkelement.com slasklisa find your favorite flavor or share with a friend. We know that nearly 95% of people don't get enough fiber. And that's because, you know, the way we eat now and our busy lifestyles can make it hard to get enough consistently. So this is why momentous launched Fiber Plus. This is a triple action formula that combines soluble and insoluble fiber with a prebiotic resistance starch that supports gut health and digestion. So it comes in both an unflavored and a cinnamon flavor and I use both. It also helps your body to absorb nutrients better, it stabilizes blood sugar and it improves recovery. And what we know is that when your gut's functioning better, everything else we're doing, how we eat, our workouts, our recovery, all of it becomes more effective. Support your gut health and and overall performance with Momentous Fiverr plus and get up to 35% off your entire first order at livemomentous.com, promo code ASKLISA. That's livemomentous.com, promo code ASKLISA for up to 35% off. Livemomentous.com promo code ASKLISA.

A

You know, I love what you do in this book about turning the concept. You know, Penn, you said it was called Add attention deficit disorder, Focus on the deficit that you can, you know, flip it a little bit by saying, it's not a deficit, it's an abundance of attention. How do you reframe that? So I'm just curious, if you're living with adhd, Penn, how do you harness this abundance effectively and make it look cool or like a skill set? Because I look at what you guys have built together and how now hearing from the ADHD lens, like, your attention to all this stuff is remarkable. You know, as a content creator, it's just fabulous to see what you guys have churned out.

D

Yeah, self awareness is a pretty amazing weapon once you've, you know, realized what you have and the cards that you've been dealt. And that's a real problem for people with adhd. They don't know what their hand looks like. Right. They. They're not really sure how to get the most of what they've got. So once you get the diagnosis and you hear, oh, so. So when I leave the stove on, when I, like, put one sock on, go downstairs and something else happens, there's a actual, like, medical explanation for my working memory and the fact that it does not seamlessly go from one to the other. When you leave one task, the other one not only is still there, but it's no longer in your head. It's left your working memory. So getting, like, the physics of that was really nice for me to understand because then when something happened, the shame goes away, right? You're like, oh, okay, well, that's just. That's my brain. And then step two is. Is, um, sharing that self awareness and dedication with the people that you love and the people who love you. So Kim, I'm sure, was at her wit's end very, very early on in our parenting journey, because that. That was kind of a. That was a inflection point where my executive functioning started to break down a bit. And she saw it as a sign of disrespect, understandably. Right. And so once she learned these things and said, well, okay, this is his brain, we're off. We're off to the races. And she, as she said before, can give some grace and understanding back to me, I have to say, okay, I'm going to work my patootie off to make sure that I get the, you know, the most out of my brain and not leave stuff out in the middle of the kitchen. And that symbiotic relationship sets you up for success, because what's left once that's all done, okay. And you're not just leaving stuff all over the place. And, you know, if you're a kid in school, you're. You're not forgetting to turn in assignments because you make a note of it, and you put systems in place to make sure it happens, then what's left is creativity spontaneity, this amazing ability to. Like, when you say you're being fixated sometimes, and that can be bad, You. You're. You're off somewhere creating or understanding something in a way that no one else has ever understood it before. So I do. I believe that my originality and my creativity is coming from the exact same part of my brain that almost burns the house down.

B

It's, like, perfect. That is, like, the perfect summary of this.

C

Well, I mean, I. I could call it the picture right now. He does so in the beginning, when I say, like, oh, I offer grace and I sound like a saint, trust me, like, there's frustration. It's because my son and my husband work so hard. They are. They are writing notes, they have calendars, they have alerts. Like, they are working. And I see them working so hard, and it's not easy. So because they're doing that, I can offer the grace. But there was a particularly busy morning last week, and Penn and I go to the gym together twice a week, and he shows up and he looks down, he goes, I don't have shoes on. So he got to the gym, but he had done literally everything else. Like, he got a permission to plan, and we had to sign a contract for this, and we had to drop something off on the way, and a kid needed to go here. Like, he'd done all of these things, 10 out of 10. And he's like, well, so what do you do? Like, you just swim?

B

You go swimming?

A

Oh, my gosh. It's hard for me to under, like somebody who doesn't have a touch point to adhd. It's hard to wait. How can you. I would have missed. I would have done the reverse. I would have missed everything else and not done anything but gone to the gym with my shoes.

C

Exactly. And my brain, too. My brain. I. The shoe. Like, you could feel the concrete on the way out the door. That's a cue that I don't have shoes on or that, like, my favorite and, like, love my family. But, like, it is. There are black clouds outside and the trees are blowing. I'm like, my brain that looks like, rain's coming. I better bring an umbrella. And Penn walks out the door. He's like, it's not Raining right now. I guess I'm good for the rest of the day. Like it doesn't queue. Yeah. So I just know that like that is, that is the difference in our brains. Like I can feel the concrete. He's moved on to the next step.

B

Yeah, I love it actually. So then you're, you're bringing this to a question and you did such a beautiful job in the book of saying, you know, this is very varied. You know, ADHD looks different in different people. It occurs across a continuum. And but if someone is listening to this thinking, okay, now I'm starting to wonder if my kid or my partner or whatever might have adhd. What are the kinds of things you would have them looking for?

D

Yeah. So I want to start with the fact that like this is just a medical diagnosis and this happens with a lot of disorders is it can't just be present in one facet of your life. Like if you're spacing out at work but not at home, if you're having trouble at school but not at home, it has to occur across. I think in the DSM they said at least two of these venues and you have to look back at your history and it has to have been present in childhood as well in some way. And a lot of times you can retroactively go back and say, oh yeah, this, I had this problem. And that's kind of a way to, to weed out this kind of like attention related addiction to phones and like a lot of other things that are going on.

B

There is the coolest chart in your book that's like ADHD attentional difficulties for someone who doesn't have adhd. And then some third hilarious column. What was the. It was like, like tuna sandwich or something.

D

I gotta remember it.

B

It was so funny.

C

It's like adhd, not adhd. Yeah.

D

But then the third one was like concrete.

B

I couldn't concrete some random things. But it was so brilliant about like has difficulty focusing everywhere when you know, caught on one's phone. Like it just moves across. And it's such a brilliant way to make the distinction between how so many of us struggle to focus our attention in a digital soup of our lives versus having adhd.

D

So there's an acquired attention disorder some people actually can be diagnosed with. And I don't, I think the treatment is give me your phone, put on your phone.

A

Exactly.

C

And I think I, I have had to break myself. I used to, I used to scroll a lot and I've, I'm much, much better about it now. I think there is some blowback. There's a lot of people who say everybody has ADHD nowadays. It's, you know, it's there. I'm just here to tell you there's a difference between what I have in perimenopause. It feels like inside of my brain is a snow globe. Like, I. I'm like, is this adhd? But I think it's just perimenop and too much TikTok. Like, that's what my issues are. What happens to my husband is completely different. And so people that criticize, like, oh, they're just handing out diagnoses. Like, no, no, no. They're.

B

If you've seen it for real, you

C

know, it's a different thing. And yeah, I think when you asked what to look for as. Again, as somebody who does not have it and does. And I'm not a physician. It. We went on this book tour that was so. It was so lovely to.

B

Because of the shame dispelling. You did, like, that's what it was.

C

It was just so nice to like hug these people. There were so many moms that because they read it because their kid has adhd, as they were reading it, they're like, oh, crap. This deci describes. Describes me as a child. We have so many moms got diagnosed because it looks so different in women than men. So we'll say if you're an adult woman or a. You have a girl, a teenage girl at home, those symptoms are going to look a lot different than the traditional hyperactive boy. So the symptoms are vast and varied. I love that they're just now. The reason why we don't talk a lot about women in ADHD is because they're only now starting studies. Duke has a center. They started center for ADHD for women and girls. And so they're just now starting these studies. And I hope that we learn more about what it looks like in women.

B

100%.

C

Yeah. Because it's not. I think it's a lot of. The moms describe a lot of easy overwhelm, like things fall through the cracks. But they're not hyperactive. You know, so there's just a lot. There's a lot to look for.

B

And I'll weigh in as a clinician. I mean, we've long known we miss the diagnosis in girls because they're not frankly bothering anybody. They are quietly sitting in the back of the class missing 90% of what's going on, whereas boys are more likely to be missing what's going on and also cutting up, having a Hard time sitting. And so we do know that we often end up with a delayed diagnosis for girls, if we ever even make the diagnosis, because the behavioral piece isn't present in the same way usually.

C

And they can mask so well. And they. And it's just, it makes me so sad that then that, you know, that inattentive girl who struggled in school is now a mom and feeling shame over, oh my God, I just missed another signup genius. Like I can't handle all this stuff and they're in tears and like there's, I mean there's. Maybe it's not medicine, but maybe there's, you know, a coach, an ADHD coach and there's like, there's. There's things to do.

A

So can I say we're talking a little bit about what's inside the book. I love. First, the COVID is awesome. But you know what I really loved is it's like color coded.

C

Yes.

B

And I actually can show it.

A

Intentional.

B

This is so cool. All the chapters have their own color on the side. It's the coolest thing.

D

Well, it was intentional. And then we learned so many things from this tour. As Kim noted, we. I think most of the kids who showed up had a book with them that they'd already bought and they wanted us to sign it. And I would say about half of those kids, maybe more. And there's got to look into this research on this. Had fricking tabs and post it notes all through it of things that they wanted to underline and headline and remember. So those color coded things were. It was funny. We made that as like, oh, well, maybe they'll do this. They actually were doing this. Particularly children were using these little earmarks and dog marks inside the book to kind of know. So that by the time the book came to us, it was an even more colorful.

C

It was like this thick.

D

I've never really asked anyone about that. Maybe, maybe, you know, doctor, I thought

A

it was intentional because you see the chapters are like highlighted and we just

D

didn't know the kids were actually just doing that on their own when they read books about this.

B

Well, it's almost like it's. I mean the book is so fun and funny and like all the like asides and all the wacky stuff that's in there that is just so entertaining. But it's almost like you gave the kids permission to use the book the way they needed to use any book. Right. Like you kind of figure like you can see these kids with a very dry book with none of the fun. Stuff in yours feeling like, well, I guess I just can't really touch it or mess with it or make my own notes. Whereas your book is like, go for it, right? Like, go for it. Like, we're already halfway there. Keep going.

C

There's these little post it notes, you know, kind of graphically in there. And that came because once you, you've done books and you. I pen and I like to like, have it printed and read it, like, actually instead of like the word doc. And so he was putting all these post it notes and he was doing all these drawings. We're like, well, that's it. Like, that's the book.

D

We're just gonna put those in the book.

C

Yeah, we're just gonna put those in.

D

And.

C

And our, our publisher, bless them, they were very patient in that way.

A

It.

B

There's something about reading the book that cultivates compassion because you're like, oh, this is what it feels like a bit to have 80. Because I, I don't like, I am a, you know, school brain from, you know, the minute I was born. And I'm like, oh, cool. All this cool stuff all over the place. And then I was like, oh, this is what it's like.

C

Yeah, you mentioned like, oh, what was the thing about, like, you can walk through a whale's vein or whatever. But like, that is what happened. Conversation with my husband and son. We're in the car and it's great, but we are, we are like driving down the road and the conversation starts here and then all of a sudden it's here and it's wonderful and entertaining, but that's what an ADHD brain does. And like, so the book was written to try to captivate so that somebody with ADHD would actually read it.

D

I had an awesome editor who, like, it's so funny. She's one of these people who doesn't like me to say her name. I don't care. Becky Cole. She's amazing. And she acted as kind of my task manager for this book. And so we realized very early in the process of how to edit this book that there's a through line and we get the through line done and then on the second run through, allow your brain to wander and include that in the book so that people with ADHD aren't going to get bored to death and are going to get a picture of a person swimming through a whale's blood vessels.

B

Yes.

D

And so that, you know, that was another one of those very intentional things that we did. And we were worried about how it would work with the audiobook. But apparently that works as well because you can be listening and want to go on these diversions as well. But the fact is the ADHD brain cannot go through a chapter at a time. It's too much without having some some fun diversionary activities.

B

I never thought I would be excited about food scraps, but here we are. For several months now, my grounds for my mill food recycler have been going straight into my herb garden in the backyard. And my herbs are thriving in a way I've never seen before. And it's amazing to have this sense of like closing the loop, like taking good care of the planet, not wasting food while actually creating more food for my family to eat. Mill is the odorless, effortless, fully automated food recycler. At night, while you sleep, milk quietly transforms your food scraps into nutrient rich, shelf stable grounds. Now another thing that has been really fun about mill is that it's become sort of a family affair. My 15 year old loves the app that comes with it that tells us how many pounds of food food we have recycled. It's like a really good feeling and honestly fun for the whole family. So try mill risk free for 90 days and get $75 off at mil.com asklisa that's $75 off at mill.com asklisa starting something new is really challenging. It's anxiety provoking. It takes a big leap. Every time I sit down to write a book I think, will anybody want to read this? So I know how scary it can be when you're launching something new. At times like this, it is really helpful to have partners and one that you would want by your side is Shopify. They are there to help. So Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and they are incredibly good at helping people get off the ground. They have their own design studio you can use that comes with hundreds of ready to use templates. And so quickly you can develop a beautiful online store that really matches your brand style. It's time to turn all those what ifs into sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com asklisa go to shopify.com ask lisa. That's shopify.com ask lisa.

A

You know, we were talking a little bit about family dynamics as well. I want to get into that before you guys go. You know, the emotional intensity of dealing with adhd. Do you guys have any family strategies that really work for you guys to pass on to other families who are dealing with It.

C

This is a deep breath moment. I will just first acknowledge that it's very hard, and I think it's hard for everyone. And so I may not have the best advice, but I can just. I see you and I know it's hard. I was also unaware that adhd, a big component of it is the emotional dysregulation. And I didn't understand why the things that were sad were so sad and the things that were, you know, worth being angry about got so, like, I just didn't understand. I'm like, you shouldn't be. So. You shouldn't be so sad. Like, you just lost a basketball game. Why are you crying? I didn't act like that, I promise. But, like, in my brain, I'm like, you're gonna play one tomorrow. It's fine. And Penn did a really good job of explaining to me like this. He. He was like, listen, I cried into high school after, you know, after losing a basketball game. Like, this is just what this brain does, and it's a delay. So I would just say, like, it. There's a there for our. From what I've seen in our family and then people close to us, it gets better. It gets better as. As the brain kind of grows and adjusts, but it's. It's always kind of there, you know, and it's. It seemed really. It was. It was hard as a mom because the emotions seemed outsized. And that's again, where. When I could just, like, get down on the floor, too, and offer some grace and just be really calm. Like, I didn't match the intensity. I didn't try to, like, talk him out of Got better and age has made it a lot better.

D

The, the worst shame comes from not being able to regulate your emotions. That's the. That's the toughest part.

C

Right?

B

Especially the white hot center of the shame.

D

Yeah. When you're. When your body and. And your age appear to have gotten you to the point where you can tough it out and you just can't. As much as you want to, you can't keep that flood from, like. Like getting right into your brain and your heart and making you cry. That was the. That was the toughest part of my childhood. And it's the. It's the toughest part of my child's childhood. He'll even tell you that. And he's worked hard on it. I think, like, now that he understands his brain, he's less likely to get to that point. But it's. It's really tough. And, you know, it may be until college, until you learn how to properly regulate these emotions. I'll echo what Kim said, and we have this kind of guru named Marcy Caldwell who's fantastic, who very early on said, 100% of my clients who come in with their children are not prepared for the emotional part of it and know nothing about it. It's not in the title of the. Sorry. It's not in the name.

B

Not in the diagnosis.

D

Should be. They use some regulation in there somewhere in the. And it's not in the diagnosis.

B

It's nowhere that is. And you're right, we don't talk about it enough. I don't know that clinicians do enough good educating about it. I don't even know that clinicians are always as knowledgeable about it as you are. Right. I mean, I will say that. Like, I mean, you know, unless they specialize in this very, very deeply, you're bringing a knowledge base that I think a lot of people don't have.

D

Yeah.

B

All right, we're gonna start to. We could talk to you forever, but we also know you have lives. Okay, so say we've got a family who's listening to this, and they're like, you know, I think there might be something here besides getting your book, which they should have done yesterday. What would you have them start to do by way of moving forward to try to make sense of and help their kid with a possible diagnosis of a diagnosis of adhd?

D

I mean, a pediatrician can diagnose it

C

and very clear in a very straightforward

D

case, in a clear case, and they can prescribe medication. But my one real thing I would say is, please don't stop there. If that's what you're doing, if you. And there's nothing. It's wonderful that pediatricians can do this, and they will do this, but using only medication to treat ADHD is going to be putting lipstick on a pig for the rest of your life if you don't get either some advice from a coach or a psychologist or someone to better explain what's going on in your brain and then really do as much as you can to try to put systems in place to alleviate that hard stuff. That's easy for everybody else, because if you just take the drugs, it's. You're going to do better. But you're not on the drugs all the time. Like at night, sometimes they wear off. In the mornings, sometimes you have to take breaks. You might decide that you want to wean yourself off of medication, and then you'll just be left with what you started with.

B

So all around services, not just one thing.

C

Yeah, I. Absolutely. Ditto. And I think the systems are even more important. If I can do that. And listen, a pediatrician can do a straightforward diagnosis, but what we've been told, sometimes ADHD walks hand in hand with anxiety, you know, and having to tease out what's anxiety and what's ADHD a good therapist can do, but, man, it's hard to get in to see a therapist. So it's just. I would also say, and I wish somebody had said to me earlier, get that even if you're just hinting around it, get a diagnosis sooner rather than later, especially with school, Even if you don't use the accommodations, you have to kind of be on record that they exist.

B

And certainly if you try to use them in college, you can't just decide that day that you want to.

C

There needs to be a. Yeah, yeah. You can't just show up and say, like, oh, my kid needs extra time in the sat. They get overwhelmed if they get. No, you haven't used that. You were not going to do that. So if you can. If you think it is, just get those accommodations. So. Or get on the record as soon as you can.

B

Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, I mean, Reena, like, are they the greatest? I mean.

A

Oh, my gosh. I. I mean, they just from the videos seem so cool and down to earth, and you always have confirmed that. And then meeting them now today on the show, you guys are just wonderful. And by the way, I just want to let our viewers know if you're watching the YouTube channel. We. We had a setup issue, and there was Pen, like, within three and a half minutes, had figured out what would have paralyzed me for the next hour, that we would have had to cancel our taping today. And I just was in awe watching him put it all together.

B

And then we were like, superpower in action. We're watching it right here, right now.

C

Absolutely.

A

You guys really are the coolest couple in America. When can we hang out in person?

D

I would love that. We didn't talk enough about you guys.

C

I know.

B

No, no, that's not the point.

D

Like, where do you. So I know where Lisa lives. Like, where. Where do you live?

A

Oh, can you give me one second? We're going to wrap it, and then we'll jump right back.

D

Personal information on this right here, right now.

A

You want.

C

Yeah.

D

What's your phone number?

C

Just have her docs, please do it.

B

Reena's in Connecticut.

A

Reena's in Connecticut.

B

I'm in Ohio. You Guys are in the South. We're pulling. You know, all we need is a West coast and we've got the whole country covered.

A

No, but we do need a live event of some sort with everybody together in one room. This is just so fun. So fun. Well, the book is called ADHD is Awesome. A Guide to Mostly Thriving with adhd. Boy, it's got a wealth of information and practical advice. And check out our show notes. We'll have a, a link to the book in our show notes as well. I just can't wait to have them back on. That's all I can say. Like, they're just doing such. But I. Until you said it. You know, as somebody who doesn't know anyone in my family has adhd, I don't know. There are moments, Lisa, where I read it and I've asked you before, do I have adhd? Like, sometimes I do have trouble focusing and you've told me I have it, I don't have it. But you know, there are perimenopause things that Kim was talking about that I feel like I relate to. But what I did not realize the book did that you said was taking the shame out of this. I just thought, wow, they've turned this upside down on its head and in such a cool way. But I, I can't. You do not need to have ADHD to read this book. Please. I found it so, so valuable. So valuable. I just, I can't. I'm going to be g gifting this book, I'll tell you that. So, Lisa, tell me, what do you have for us for parenting to go?

B

Okay, so, you know, I talk about, like, the beauty of being a mid to late career psychologist or hopefully just mid at this point. And like, things start to become clear. Like things just like, boil down into simple forms that just make so much sense. And the place I'm at right now is that everything is about relationships. Everything good that happens, especially in family life, especially between parent and child, is about the quality of the relationship. This book is about shame and getting rid of it. And then this book is equally about relationships. And there's something so beautiful that happens in this book of Kim's voice and Penn's voice and them talking about the impact of ADHD on their relationship and how they use the relationship to get through the parts that can be hard about adhd. And I put it down and I was like, this book is going to do so much for the relationships around kids who are struggling with this. And there is nothing, nothing that matters more in the care of our children than that.

A

Wow. You know, you also made me realize, like, I wanted to ask them, like, how do they work together as husband and wife? Could you do that? I couldn't do that. Back on to ask about that.

B

Good.

A

Next week we're going to talk about how you stay connected with your teens. When they pull away. We're going to have special guests and authors. Dr. Gordon Newfield and Dr. Gabor Mate. They're going to give us all their research and understanding. I'll see you next week, Lisa.

B

I'll see you next week.