Will We Trust God’s Wisdom or Our Own?

Michelle Jones

Hello.

Narrator/Host

Welcome to the hyperlink episode for the Ten Commandments. As we wrap up a series, we like to go digging back through our podcast archives and find clips where we discussed similar ideas from different perspectives. In the Ten Commandments series, we looked at the theme of trusting in God's wisdom, which leads to life, instead of building a life on our own terms, which usually leads to a lot of pain. Today we're going to listen to three clips that explore that theme. We'll first look at how the literary structure of the stories around the Ten Commandments highlights humanity's severe reluctance to wait on God's commands. In the second clip, we'll look at the Golden Calf story and how it relates to the Ten Commandments. Lastly, we'll grab a clip from our paradigm series in which we talk about how all, all of the Bible, the laws, the poems, the letters are wisdom for us. That's today on the show. I'm your host, Michelle Jones. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Let's start with a clip from the Exodus scroll podcast series. In that series, we spend 12 episodes working through the literary structure of Exodus. Israel is rescued from Egypt on the night of Passover. They travel through the wilderness for three months and then they end up at the foot of Mount Sinai. This clip is what happens when they arrive at S. Israel, is given the 10 words I.e. the 10 commandments, and then given 42 more commands. In this conversation, Tim takes us through the literary structure of Exodus 19:24, how it's set up as a chiasm or what John will end up visualizing as a double cheeseburger. This clip comes from our episode titled Testing at Mount Sinai. Here's John and Tim.

John

So this is Exodus 19 through 24. It begins with the words and in the third month after the sons of Israel left Egypt. So it's been three months in the third month. So they've been traveling through the wilderness since the night of Passover, which was the first month the liberation from Egypt. And Passover marks a new year marked. Yeah, it's as if the calendar got restarted with Passover. It's a recreation. Even time gets recreated for Israel. So we're now three months in and they arrive at the foot of a mountain, Mount Sinai, which is the very mountain Moses met God at, at the burning bush, you know, many years, many years ago. So that's how the section starts and the exciting jam packed action story that began, you know, with Exodus just grinds to a halt right here. We're going to stay parked at this Mountain for the rest of Exodus, all of Leviticus, and the first ten chapters of Numbers. And all of that material is going to transpire in what takes up one calendar year.

Tim

Okay.

John

So it's the center of the Torah that spans three scrolls, and it is just dedicated to one year. So I think the book of Genesis kicks off in the first 11 chapters by sequencing forward, like hundreds and thousands of years in 11 chapters. And now we're going to spend a lot of material on.

Tim

It's an important year.

John

That's right. Yep. So that's how the section begins in 19 to 24. Here's how the section works. There's a story where God shows up on Mount Sinai and invites the people to make a covenant. And he invites Israel to become his kingdom of priests. And the people say, yes, sign us up. We want to do it. God comes down in cloud and fire. That's chapter 19. God starts speaking, and here the narrative stops, and it's a long speech of God. And lo and behold, we have the 10 commandments.

Tim

The 10 words.

John

The 10 words, they're the terms of the covenant relationship between God and Israel. So they're not just random moral commands dropped out of the sky, their covenant terms for the Israelites, but they're the

Tim

first of what's going to be many.

John

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 613 in this section. There's going to be 42 more after this. So you get the 10 words that summarize kind of the essence, as it were, of the covenant, starting with don't make any idols. Then in a short paragraph at the center of this whole section, you get a what, four verse paragraph, chapter 20, verse 18 to 21. And you get a flashback to the moment that God showed up at the cloud back in chapter 19. And there's a unique kind of form of Hebrew verbs that's used to set it aside as not progressing the narrative further, but actually giving you background information on the narrative that you read earlier. So this is like a flashback, and it flashes back to the moment the God showed up at the mountain in cloud and fire. And it tells you what the people said to Moses in that moment. And what they said to Moses in that moment is, whoa, this God's way too intense. We don't want to go near him. So Moses, you go, and we'll stand back. They stay far away. They don't want to come near. They want to go far. And there's that little story right there. And Moses says, no, you guys, God is testing you so that you'll learn to fear him and so that you won't sin and break the covenant.

Tim

The test is whether they will go up the mountain, even though it's intense.

Michelle Jones

Yep.

John

Yeah. Or at least come nearer than they already are. Yep. So you get that little story. It just begins and it ends right there.

Tim

Okay.

John

Then the story stops, and you get another block of commandments. This time it's the 42 laws. They're written upon what's called the scroll of the Covenant, and they're called the commands. Okay. It starts in chapter 20, verse 22, and it goes through all the rest of chapter 23. And this is the first block of real, like, laws.

Tim

This is when. If you're doing your read through the Bible.

John

Yeah.

Tim

This is the first, like. Well, yep, I'm in the law roadblock here.

John

You start questioning your life decisions, as they say. You're just like, 42 ancient Near Eastern laws. Yeah. Kidding me.

Tim

I'm supposed to meditate on these.

John

Yeah. So we will meditate on some because they're fascinating. And incidentally, speaking of Wisdom of the nations with Jethro, about a dozen of the laws here in this section are nearly verbatim to laws found in the ancient law code of the Babylonian king Hammurabi.

Tim

How many?

John

Oh, about a dozen dozen. And then a few more are very close, but some are, like, almost verbatim. So we're tapping into this theme of portraying Yahweh as the way that wise kings and leaders were portrayed in the ancient world, which as giving the wisdom of the gods to rule with justice and establish order. So there's the covenant laws. And then after those covenant laws, second block, you get another narrative, which is of God's fire cloud on the mountain. And Moses comes down and he makes a covenant with the people. They offer sacrifices, sprinkles blood, blood rituals. And all the people say exactly what they said back in chapter 19. Everything Yahweh has said, we are going to do it. We are going to listen. And they. What do you say? Ratify. Solidify the covenant.

Tim

Ratify? Yeah. That's a fancy word.

John

Yeah. They sign on the dotted line, as it were. And so Moses goes back up to the mountain with the elders and with the priests and elders. They go up, halfway up the mountain and they have a great feast, and they see God. They see through the heavenly dome above, and they see, like, a throne and pavement up above, and they see God. And then Moses alone goes up to the top of the mountain into the cloud and fire on the seventh day. And that's how this section ends.

Tim

Okay.

John

So just listening to all that, probably you can't see the symmetry, but it goes the narrative of God showing up the Ten Commandments, the little narrative that gives you a flashback to what happened when God showed up. And you get the next block of laws, then you get another narrative which is about the making of the covenant.

Tim

Yeah. It's still hard to. If you're just listening to that. Hard to visualize.

John

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Tim

Maybe. Let me try. So this section here has a symmetry, a chiasm that goes A, B, C, B, A. So the two most outer parts of this section mirror each other, and then there's an inner part that mirrors each other, and then there's a central part that stands alone.

John

Yeah.

Tim

And the most outer part, the bun.

John

Yeah, that's right.

Tim

Is two narratives about Moses going up the mountain and Israel saying, we're in for the covenant.

John

Yep, yep.

Tim

So those are the outer layers.

John

Correct.

Tim

Then inside, you've got, like, two patties.

John

Yeah, that's right. This is a. It's one of those Wendy.

Tim

Double burger.

John

Double burgers.

Tim

You got two patties. And those patties are the laws.

John

Blocks of laws. Yeah.

Tim

So the first One was the Ten Commandments, and the second one is the 42 Laws. And in the middle of the two patties, it's a little slice of cheese.

John

Yep, yep. Okay. Ooh. Except this is, like, stinky because it's kind of the disappointing moment. It's like.

Tim

It's Swiss cheese.

John

I love Swiss cheese. Oh, really? I was going to go for, like, Roquefort or something. Something really smelly.

Tim

Smelly cheese.

John

Yeah. This is a Roquefort because it's where the people say, we don't want to go near our God. So, Moses, you go up for us. Yeah. And Moses says, no, you guys, this is your test. Draw near to the fire. It might look like it's going to kill you, but actually it's going to purify you as God's covenant partners. But the people won't go near. Okay, that's at the center. So there you go. That's the overview of the section. Moses goes up and down the mountain throughout this whole block. Seven times.

Tim

That's right.

John

You mentioned that he goes up seven times.

Tim

So that. And that probably is why it's a bit jumbled, is in order to get him to do it seven times.

John

He's constantly going on.

Tim

It's a lot of hiking, and it's hard to keep track.

John

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. But that hamburger analogy I gotta give it to you, John. That was very helpful for me. And I'm looking at a chart, so I hope it was helpful for everybody listening. This is the Sinai hamburger served up at your neighborhood burger joint. So again, just to kind of close this conversation about the Overview of Exodus 19:24, what's cool about it is it's designed in a way to invite the reader to reread the these chapters multiple times. The narrative is out of linear sequence in terms of time, but also is an alternating block of story with a block of laws, story with a block of laws, and then a concluding story. So it's a really great example of meditation literature, which is part of this bigger paradigm. So we're trying to learn how to read these texts according to their design. And this is a really good example.

Narrator/Host

That clip was from our 2022 series, Exodus Scroll Episode 6, titled Testing at Mount Sinai. The literary structure of Exodus 19:24 highlights humanity's reluctance to trust Yahweh. And this is just the beginning. After this, Moses stays on top of the mountain and gets the tabernacle instructions from Yahweh. These are the plans for the tent that Israel is to make so God can come down off the mountain and dwell with them. Then the camera pans back down to the foot of the mountain and we find Israel there, losing patience. And instead of waiting for Moses to come down and tell them what Yahweh commanded, they start making an idol to replace Yahweh. And before Moses even comes back down, Israel is breaking the first three of the ten commandments which worshiping other gods, making an idol and carrying Yahweh's name in vain. In this next clip, Tim, John and Carissa discuss how many Jewish scholars consider the making of the golden calf as Israel's fall narrative. This clip comes from the Character of God series in the episode titled A God of Our Own Making. Here's John and Tim, along with former Bible Project scholar Carissa Quinn.

John

So this is the Seen at the end of Exodus 24, Moses went up the mountain. This is verse 15 of Exodus 24. And a cloud, divine cloud, covered the mountain and the glory. There's the glory of God. It rested on Mount Sinai. A cloud covered it six days. And on the seventh day, God called to Moses from the middle of the cloud and the eyes of the sons of Israel. To their eyes the appearance of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the mountain. And Moses went into the cloud as he went up the mountain. And he was on the mountain. 40 days and 40 nights. It's a long time, dude. It's a long time. 40 days and nights. Yes.

Tim

And these are important numbers, obviously, like 7 and 40.

John

And also the cloud covered it for six days. And then on the seventh day he went into the cloud. And we're told in that same verse 16 that the glory of God was resting up there. Do you get it? It's a good one.

Tim

Like God rested on the seventh day, you mean?

John

Yes. As if the glory of God, Sabbath on the mountain. Moses waits six days and on the seventh, he goes up into God's rest on the mountain. That's totally what's going on.

Tim

He goes to rest with God on the mountain.

John

Yeah, that's right. It's like we got Genesis 1 on the brain here for sure. So he goes up and the whole thing is the people just said, we'll accept these vows, we're gonna get married, it's gonna be awesome.

Tim

Well, yeah. Now they got 40 days to rethink it.

John

Totally. Exactly. That's right.

Tim

Can you imagine if you were like in a wedding? It's like you did like part of the ceremony and then you take a 40 day break to decide if you wanna go through with it. Totally.

John

Yeah, that's right. So the camera shifts from here and it goes into the cloud. And the camera's on Yahweh and Moses in the cloud. And Yahweh speaks seven times and he reveals the blueprints. Yeah. For the tabernacle. In a way you could see, this whole section is God says, hey, let's get married. It's the marriage ceremony. And then Moses goes up to like get the plans for where Israel and God are going to move in together. And Exodus chapter 32, verse 1 is where the story picks up and it's where everything starts to go terribly, terribly wrong. That's the kind of the narrative context. So it may be worth reading, actually just the opening sentence of Exodus 32, maybe. Chrissa, do you want to do that?

Michelle Jones

Okay. Now, when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people assembled about Aaron and said to him, come, make us a God who will go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up from the land of Egypt, will, we do not know what has become of him. Aaron said to them, tear off the gold rings which are in the ears of your wives, your sons and your daughters, and bring them to me. Then all the people tore off the gold rings which were in their ears and brought them to Aaron. He took this from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made it into a molten calf. And they said, this is your God, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt. Now, when Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, tomorrow shall be a feast to Yahweh. So the next day, they rose early and offered burnt offerings and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.

John

Dance party.

Tim

We talked about this, Tim. That word play. It's talking about something more than just.

John

Well, the core root of it is the word root of Isaac's name, Yitzhak, which means to laugh, like, to jest around. Yeah.

Tim

And IV says indulge in revelry.

John

Totally. It's not child's play kind of scene. It involves physical touching. This is interesting. So there's a story in the book of Genesis, chapter 26, where a guy named Yitzhak, whose name means he will play, where he will laugh.

Michelle Jones

Isaac. Isaac.

John

And he lies about his wife. He goes into a city, and he's afraid that somebody's going to kill him and take her. So he says that she's not his wife. That's his strange way of protecting himself. But then the leader of the city looks out a window one morning, and we're told that Isaac was playing with Rivka Rebecca, his wife. It's his name. But, you know, he's not just, like, telling a joke. That's the point here. It's like snuggle time, you know? So whatever the people are doing, either they're having a dance party, or you can look at a bunch of other uses of tsahak. And it seems like there is some kind of sexual connotation. And that's certainly how this was understood in the history of Jewish interpretation.

Tim

You know, one thing I never noticed before, I can't believe I didn't notice this. I thought they were building a golden calf to replace Yahweh, but they're here saying, no, this is Yahweh.

Michelle Jones

Yeah, they called it Yahweh.

John

No, that's totally right. That's right.

Tim

I never saw that.

Michelle Jones

You know what's really interesting about that, too, is that it seems like it's a reflection on the Ten Commandments, which they just heard Yahweh speak from a fiery cloud. Both don't make gods before me. Don't make them out of gold. Don't make anything in the image of an animal like a calf. But then also, what about don't take up the name of Yahweh in vain or to the empty thing. It almost seems like this is an example of taking the name of Yahweh and appropriating it to this other thing.

John

Oh, yeah.

Michelle Jones

Do you think that's right? It just seems to go through the Ten Commandments so clearly. Made me wonder if that one is connected in this way.

John

So the first thing you drew attention to was, you know, don't have any other gods. It says before my face. This is from the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20. Don't make an idol or any image of anything in the skies above, on the land, or the waters under the earth. What it doesn't clarify is, are these images of Yahweh that are prohibited only, or is it images of other gods too? Well, the next line is, don't bow down to them, don't serve them. For I, Yahweh, am a passionate God. And then don't carry the name of Yahweh, your God, in vain. It doesn't explicitly only address the issue of other gods. The idol could represent Yahweh or it could represent other gods. So that's the first thing, because you're right, John. What they're saying is that this golden calf is Yahweh. And then Chrisa. That's interesting about carrying the name. You know, we just had this conversation with Carmen Imes. What she's advocating is the phrase to carry the name means when God's people represent him by having their name upon them, so to speak. But this is almost an inversion. Where it is they are acting as if this piece of metal is also now a carrier of the name, which is, of course, idolatry. I think that might be the inversion of it there.

Michelle Jones

That's interesting.

John

Yeah, John, that's a good observation.

Tim

Well, I mean, it's much worse. It seems like in my mind to say, okay, well, Moses is up there. We're tired of waiting. Let's just create a new God. And for whatever reason, that was always the template in my mind. It's what they were doing. They were creating a new God. But what they're doing is they're saying, okay, that's taking too long. Let's create this idol that is Yahweh, and we can just get started. Let's get the party started.

Michelle Jones

Almost just, let's do it in our own way.

Tim

Let's do it in our own way.

Michelle Jones

Yeah, same God, but let's do it the way we want to do it.

Tim

And God gets really mad. About that. And I can understand, but it seems less understandable than creating a new God for some reason to me.

John

You're saying his angry response is less understandable if they're making a totally different God? Is that what you're saying?

Tim

It's less understandable if they're making a God out of.

John

For him, to represent him.

Tim

We still. We're on. We're on team Yahweh, but we're kind of. We want to just get started. We just want to go interesting. And so the best thing we know how is. Is create the idol and then we can start the. The revelries. And we can. And it seems like it may be an obvious, you know. Well, tell me. Yeah, help me out.

John

I was having the opposite response, thinking, oh, yeah, this actually explains better why God's response is so severe. So what happened was God came and he appeared to the people, and we didn't talk about this, but he invited all of them to come up on the mountain. Back in chapter 19 and 20, he said, Listen, I'm going to show up. It's going to be intense. And when you hear the ram's horn blast on the third day, the people go up onto the mountain. The ram's horn blasts, and the people stand back and they're afraid and they shudder, and they say, moses, you go. And so Moses goes up alone. And it's clear that the people have a relationship to Yahweh. That's uncomfortable for them already. But now we're 40 days into it. There's a storm up there, and that storm up there is Yahweh somehow. And now Moses is gone. What? This doesn't make any sense. I think that's the image here.

Tim

So let's. Let's do this on our own terms.

John

Yeah. So the idea is, I don't know how to handle smoking mountain fire God who, like, calls our leader away, and now he's gone. You know what? We do have categories for idols, because these are gods that we can make and we can handle them, and we know how to feed them and throw parties for them. This is like, we know how to do this. This is normal.

Tim

Well, how much more intense is this story then for me? I mean, if you're saying, I want to follow Yahweh, how easy is it to suddenly go, But I'm going to do it in a way that's more understandable to me.

Michelle Jones

Yeah, that is easy, isn't it?

Tim

That is super easy.

John

You've done that already today.

Tim

I probably have done it today.

John

Me, too.

Michelle Jones

Well, I don't know, John. I think there are other, like, literary clues in the text that this is really bad and egregious because they say what they say, this is your God, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. The whole book up until this point is all about Yahweh saying, I'm going to bring them up, I'm going to dwell among them so that they will know that I'm Yahweh. And so it just seems like part of the plot that what Yahweh really wants is for his people to know him, and then they do the very opposite thing and use the same words for it. I thought this was really interesting. When Aaron says, tear off the gold rings in the ears of your wives and bring them to me. Those are the same. That same word, gold rings in the ears of your wives, are what is used for the tabernacle construction. So these are the things that the people are supposed to be using to build the place where God dwells, and instead they're building this other thing.

John

Yeah, that's a good one. Yep. Yeah.

Michelle Jones

So, yeah, I think there's more. Oh, and the feast. Feast, burnt offerings, and peace offerings are three things that God says right after the ten Commandments to do for him and to build an altar for him. So these are, like, intentional repetitions showing they're doing the opposite. So it seems like there's more.

Tim

They're gonna build an altar, but in front of the. In front of the cat.

John

Yeah, that's right. So really, it's a contrast between the real Yahweh, who's unpredictable and scary and other. And he reveals himself to us in the wilderness. You know, there's all these things that are kind of stacking up, you know, and he requires that we, like, trust him.

Michelle Jones

Yeah. Maybe that's the biggest thing.

John

You can't pin him down, this Yahweh, you know, and he tromped on Egypt, all right, and protected us. But they don't have a handle on this Yahweh. And making an idol, the fundamental depiction of this, and this is the first time people make an idol in the Bible, it's of people wanting to replace who God really is with some version of Yahweh that is more manageable and that. Okay, now I can work with this Yahweh and let this be the Yahweh that will lead us out of here.

Tim

Yeah. But show me one spiritual community that hasn't domesticated God in some way.

John

Oh, totally. I Mean, that's surely the point here. The point of the Golden Calf narrative is to say God's purposes have always been to work out his plan in the world through a covenant people problem. That covenant people, from the moment he married them, have not wanted to be married to the real him.

Tim

Mid ceremony.

John

Mid ceremony. And this is important strategy in the storyline of the Torah and the prophets to say that all this is, is the Adam and Eve story design pattern. The people through whom God wants to rule the world are unfaithful from the beginning, which then creates a plot tension. Whatever God's going to have to do, he's going to have to now not just fix the world, but fix his own covenant people. And this is like the plot tension driving the Bible here.

Michelle Jones

So maybe then, John, you're right that when we look at this, it's supposed to be a reflection on us. It's like the human situation. This is what humans do. And so then we have to keep reading to see how God responds.

Tim

Yeah, well, it's funny because when I read it as in terms of they're creating another God, I kind of felt a little like, removed from it in a way. And now that I'm reading it through that lens, I'm like, oh, man.

John

Yeah. In Jewish tradition, Jewish interpretation, Jewish scholars viewed the Golden Calf story as Israel's Genesis 3 kind of fall narrative. So just listen to this. This is a line that developed about the Golden Calf that I thought was fascinating. This is in the Babylonian Talmud. There is no punishment that comes upon the world that doesn't have at least 1 24th of a part of the punishment for the golden calf.

Tim

I'm confused. What does that mean?

John

Okay, well, here let me read a parallel saying. This is from a book called Midrash Rabba on Exodus. There is not a generation of Israel that doesn't suffer at least a particle of punishment for the sin of the golden calf. In other words, in Jewish tradition, what

Tim

happened here, it's like original sin.

John

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Right. So any generation of Israel, or in the Talmud, any generation of humanity, that something terrible happens, at least one little tiny bit of that is because of what happened at the Golden Calf.

Tim

And yeah, it's the way we think of the fall narrative in Genesis 3 behind everything. Is that that first inclination?

John

Yeah, that's right. To replace the real God with a God that I can handle and that ultimately is made in my own image. It's my own fabrication. Actually, there is a meaningful interplay here with Genesis 1 and 2, because the creature that they make is not even a human. It's an animal, something less than human. So they are making the thing that they say is superior to them and will lead them. And what it is, is something that actually should be ruled by them according to the image of God. Right, the animals.

Tim

Oh, yeah.

John

Meanwhile, the one human that is faithful to God is up there, and he's going to come down glowing when he comes down, too, you know. Anyway.

Tim

Well, speaking of which.

John

Yeah, speaking of which. Camera shifts in verse seven, and it goes up to Moses, and really what it is is Yahweh. The camera goes back up the mountain, and it's Yahweh who says to Moses, go down the mountain at once. This is good. He says, for your people have corrupted themselves. Your people that you brought up out of the land of Egypt. They have quickly turned away from the way that I've commanded them. They have made for themselves a molten calf and bowed down to it. They offered sacrifices to it. And they have said, this is your God of Israel who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. Yahweh said to Moses, I have seen this people. They are a people that have a stiff neck. So then, this is verse 10. Give me Noah. It's Noah's name as a verb. Give me rest that my anger may burn, and I will destroy them, and I will make you a great nation.

Tim

You referring to Moses?

John

Yes, you, Moses, singular. I will make you into a great nation. We'll start over. You'll become a new Abraham. This thing about Noah's name, it's a wordplay. Because when you give somebody rest, if you're giving them rest from distress, you know that's a good thing. Yeah, but give me rest. Like, I need a break from you. Go away. In fact, that's how most of our English translations translate it, don't they?

Tim

I need some alone time.

John

I need some alone time. Oh. So New American Standard has, leave me alone. What Moses goes on to do is not leave God alone. He starts to intercede for the people, and what he ends up doing is bringing rest to God, but by interceding for the people. It's very, very interesting. So this begins. Oh, Chris, you brought up, I think, in this episode that Moses objected five times to.

Tim

Oh, that was last episode.

Michelle Jones

I think it might have been the last. But. Yeah. That he resisted five times in the. When God first spoke to him and called him to bring the people out of Egypt. Yeah. He. Five times he says, no, I can't do that.

John

Where was he standing? He's up on this mountain. What's interesting, so Moses, last time he bargained with God on this mountain, it was five excuses to get out of having to lead the people. Now he finds himself standing in the same spot and he engages in five acts of intercession. I think the reason why all of this matters, this whole story is revealing that Yahweh is a certain kind of God with certain kinds of character traits that you've just seen operate in the story of the Golden Calf, which is he will deal justly and fairly with people who abandon him and hate him to his face for however many generations as continue that behavior. But his ultimate baseline in his deepest heart and purpose is mercy, compassion and forgiveness, which he demonstrates both.

Narrator/Host

That clip was from our 2020 Character of God series, episode two, titled A God of Our Own Making. These stories in the Bible are for us. We're all prone to want to simplify and contain Yahweh. And one way we do that is by turning the Bible into a moral handbook or a spiritual checklist. But the Bible is so much bigger than that. As Paul tells Timothy, you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom. Let's listen to our third and final clip. It comes from the paradigm series in which we look at what we believe the Bible is. This next clip is from an episode titled Wisdom for Life's Complexity, where we look at the Bible as wisdom literature. We begin this clip with John thinking out loud about how some parts of the Bible make a lot of sense as wisdom literature. Like a proverb or a poem, for example. But in what way are the New Testament letters wisdom literature? Here's John and Tim and former Bible Project scholar Carissa Quinn talking about the Bible as wisdom literature.

Tim

Now, I think I have a very intuitive sense for how a poem or a proverb is wisdom literature and how you meditate on a poem and it gets deeper and more rich and it connects to the human experience and it shapes you. Or like, you know, a nice saying how at first you're kind of like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And then like, the more you sit with it, the like more profound it becomes. And then I get that with stories too, right? Like there's intuitive sense there. There's a whole section of the Bible, and it's the section of the Bible that I was kind of taught to prioritize.

John

Ah, sure.

Tim

Which are like the New Testament letters.

John

Yes, yes, that's right.

Tim

And those seem more like a handbook,

John

a rule book, at least certain parts of them.

Tim

Parts of them yeah, that's right. But I think I start to get a little uncomfortable. Kind of help me through this uncomfortability of, like, when we talk about the New Testament letters as wisdom literature. Because when we say the whole Bible and all its literary styles as wisdom literature, you're throwing in.

John

Yeah, including the apostolic letters.

Tim

So when Paul tells the church of Corinth, like, hey, do this, don't do that, Is that a do and don't list that we need to really take seriously? Is it wisdom literature and what's the difference?

John

Yeah, sure, That's a good question. Yeah, it is a great question. Well, on one level, everybody reads the letters of the apostles as wisdom literature, even if they don't know it. Because think through Paul's letter to the Corinthians. He has commands that he gives to the Corinthians about the value set by which they organize themselves into communities. He has commands about sexual integrity, not sleeping with prostitutes. He has commands about not taking lawsuits outside the community. People have contentions with each other. He has commands about marriage and betrothal. He has commands about making sure you take that offering every week that you're together for the poor in Jerusalem. So you have all these commands. And throughout Christian history, Christian readers have selected certain of those as universal and other ones as contextual. And the problem is, based on anybody's social location, what you elevate to universal or say as contextual differs. As a matter of fact, throughout church history, different communities pick and choose. And so the question is, is one community right and one community wrong, or is this the wrong category altogether? Right?

Michelle Jones

Yeah.

Tim

I think there are Christian communities who would say, no, we do them all.

John

We try to do it all, but it's impossible. Because the moment somebody looks at Paul's commands to the Corinthians to take an offering every week for the poor in Jerusalem, they turn it into wisdom. Well, we also take an offering for X and Y in our community.

Michelle Jones

Yeah. Spiritualizing or principalizing it.

John

Exactly. Which is they're reading it as wisdom literature.

Michelle Jones

They're living by the wisdom of that text.

Narrator/Host

That's right.

John

Paul taught the Corinthians to do this, and so we do this ourselves. And when they do that, they're reading it of wisdom literature that gives guidance for how we ought to live. But they're not doing the actual command because they don't live in 1st century Corinth.

Tim

But then there will be other things where you're like, oh, yeah, Paul wanted the church to do that, and of course we should do it too.

John

So this is the dynamic that Jesus communities around the world have been engaged in. To me, it's just helpful to say all of the letters of the apostles are written to first century communities and the commands were to them. These letters were to them, and they function as wisdom literature for us. The same way that the proverbs do, the same way that the laws to ancient Israel do. I'm not a 1st century Corinthian, but what Paul guided the Corinthians in for how to be faithful to the way of Jesus has immense wisdom for how I follow Jesus. But it's the same type of relationship as when I watch God give commands to ancient Israel, it seems to me. So I think that's what we're saying here. All of the diverse literary styles are wisdom literature, because none of it is to me. I'm not an ancient Israelite. I'm not a century Corinthian or Ephesian.

Michelle Jones

Yeah. Tim, I have this memory of coming into your office when you were a pastor when I was just starting my studies, and I asked you a question about how do I know which of these things are universal? How do I know which are contextual? And you said they're all contextual, like they were all written in this ancient context. And I was like, whoa,

Tim

so where are the guardrails then?

Michelle Jones

Yeah, so what do you do? And that's, I mean, that's the process of interpretation, but just recognizing in the first place that everything in the Bible is written in an ancient context to an ancient audience for our benefit.

John

For our wisdom.

Michelle Jones

Yeah, for our wisdom.

Tim

Yeah. If the story is that we take wisdom on our own terms and it's a disaster or we trust God and it'll be beautiful, then how do you get from God the wisdom from this literature versus you just saying, oh, I know what's good and bad, then if this was contextual for them, I'm going to say, we can do this, we could do that. And just relying on your own instincts,

John

this is really where the last two paradigm pieces come into play. It's contextually rooted literature. That's our next one. And then after that, it's communal literature. It was written within a community, to a community for them to communally discern the will of God that was being communicated through these texts. And it's never been otherwise. It's often just that the contextual nature of the Bible is often underemphasized depending on your tradition. And the communal way that we discern God's wisdom from this literature is Often invisible to us. We don't recognize the way we're doing it because it's just the way our tradition has always done it.

Michelle Jones

Yeah, it seems like you need wisdom to interpret wisdom literature.

John

You have to know about Fight Club to know about Fight Club.

Michelle Jones

You know, I think about what we typically think of as the wisdom literature in the Bible. It's these different voices at a table talking about the same thing. So Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Job, are all talking about how the world works. And, you know, when somebody does something good, are they rewarded? And when they do something bad, are they punished? Is that how the world works? And they all have these different perspectives and voices. And you need wisdom when you listen to those voices to know which of those things might apply in your situation or how to interpret those. And I feel like the whole Bible is this collection of voices and of wisdom that isn't necessarily straightforward, but that we can learn from. But we need wisdom to do that.

John

Yeah. As I'm listening, you're directing my attention to what you're talking about to. We can land the plane with this one. This is one of my favorite paragraphs in the Bible to talk about this. It's a meta paragraph that's a reflection on Scripture, but it's within Scripture itself. So it's in Paul's second letter to Timothy, chapter three. So he's writing to a protege, like an apprentice who he sent to lead the churches, house churches in Ephesus. And so he starts talking about how you learn the scriptures from your mom and your grandma. And then he says, you, however, Timothy 2, Timothy 3 14, continue in the things that you've learned and become convinced of, because you know the people you learned from, how from childhood, you know the sacred writings. So this is great to know about Fight Club. You already have to know about Fight Club. He was raised in a community. He's been taught already what these texts are about, that they're a unified story that leads to Jesus. They give us wisdom and so on. In other words, he doesn't just grow up and become an adult one day. And like now I'm just a blank slate. And I learn what God wants from me, and I learn from it in a simple, straightforward way by reading the Bible. That's not how anybody learns how to discern God's will from the Bible. You're apprenticed into it in a community. And so here's what he says about the sacred scriptures for him of the Old Testament, more probably in its Greek form. He says one, they're able to give you wisdom that leads to deliverance, a rescue through trust in the Messiah, Jesus. So that's a summary which is so great. It's messianic wisdom literature.

Michelle Jones

Yeah, yeah. And he's talking about the Hebrew Bible or the Old Testament.

John

Exactly right. Yeah, It's a summary. So first of all, I just love. He calls it wisdom literature.

Tim

Yeah, yeah.

John

It gives. It shapes you to be able to see and live in a certain way. And what is that way to know that you need to be rescued.

Tim

Yeah. And that's the kind of like, formation piece of like, become the kind of human you're made to be.

John

That's right. That's right. And the ideal human in the Bible is somebody who recognizes the limits of their wisdom and says whatever is going to happen in the world needs to happen through something way bigger and smarter than me. Hands off.

Michelle Jones

That's what you mean by wisdom that leads to deliverance.

John

Yeah, deliverance or salvation. There's something that has to be done to carry the world forward and I'm unable to do it. I need deliverance. And that deliverance is marked by trust. Salvation through faith or deliverance through trust in an anointed representative who will do for us what we can't do for ourselves. That's the basic storyline. And when you view yourself in the world that way, well, all of a sudden what scripture becomes is a source of teaching. Paul goes on to say, it tells you things you never knew before for reproof. It confronts you about the things that you do know but don't live consistently with. For correcting, saying, stop going that way, go this way. And then for shaping you to do what is right. This is what wisdom literature does. Yeah. So that's a great summary. I love how he brings together the wisdom character formation for an individual and a community with the unified messianic storyline. It's just all in one package right here.

Michelle Jones

Yeah. It's wisdom to understand the story. And that is transformative.

John

It's transformative so that God's people are trained to do good works. Yep. So this is what we mean by wisdom literature.

Tim

What would you say to someone who maybe it's kind of mourning this a little bit like someone who life is tough enough already, you know, it's a grind. Things are difficult. Just tell me what to do. Just give me the answers. Be more straightforward. Like, I want to do the right thing. I want to have a more abundant life. Just give me the list. I'm going to do my best, but just make it simple. Don't give me this art project that I need to endeavor on.

John

Well, but think about it. At one level, that's totally right. There are these distillations that we get throughout the story, like in the Ten Commandments or in the Sermon on the Mount, you know, and at points it's very clear, like don't murder. Honor your mom. Pa. Yeah. You know, do to others what you want them to do to you.

Tim

Okay.

John

Oh, man.

Tim

There's these crystallizing moments.

John

Yeah. Where it's like distilled. But if you really think about it, you don't want a list. You want a list for a certain season that will train you. Right. That'll train your moral compass so that when you confront really complex situations like Joshua or Moses and it's not clear and there's no list.

Tim

There's no list. We're outside the realm of any list.

John

But you've been shaped to be the kind of person who knows how to figure out the right way forward.

Tim

That's what I really like.

John

Lists will not help you do that. But wisdom. Wisdom will help you do that. No book could be long enough to be a long enough list to tell every human what they need to do in every situation. And that's not what we actually need or I think want in the long run. I want to make decisions. I want to do stuff. Oh, man. My son, my 10 year old, he is so ready to be 18 and like he's just constantly wants to be an adult. And so it's so fascinating. I'm trying to help him learn. Like the way that you can become an adult is to start learning from the consequences of your decisions. And you know, we're going to be at this for another eight years, but it's that right there that's good. Anyhow, when you say mourn the loss, I guess I would just gently challenge that point of view and just say, but is that really what you want to be? Just be told exactly what to do your whole life? Don't you want to make some decisions for yourselves and try it out and like grow and experience immaturity? Isn't that what most of us want?

Tim

Yeah, that is what most of us want. But then when there's a real tough decision.

John

Yeah, yeah.

Tim

And we're stuck.

John

Oh man.

Tim

We just want God's wisdom just to come beamed down.

John

And that's when you'd pull a Solomon.

Michelle Jones

Yeah. I was going to say, I'll just pray. Ask for wisdom.

John

Yeah. Or James, if anyone lacks wisdom. Right. Yeah. It's a huge theme.

Michelle Jones

Yeah. That's a good prayer.

John

Yeah. Yeah. Sort of like we want God to have given us an exhaustive map and what he offers is a compass, and that's kind of what this reframe is.

Tim

And that's what the human life requires.

John

Yeah.

Tim

There is no map.

John

Yeah. How could there be? The story's not written except in the wisdom of God.

Narrator/Host

That clip was from our 2021 Paradigm series, episode 8, Wisdom for Life's Complexity. And that's it for today's episode. I hope you enjoyed listening to this hyperlink edition of the Ten Commandments. You can find links in the show notes to the full episodes we sampled today. Our whole Ten Commandments video series is now available, so we encourage you to check it out along with a copy collection of more resources you can use to study in community. Find the link to the Ten Commandments collection in the show notes or in the BibleProject app. BibleProject is a crowdfunded project. We exist to help people experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus. Everything we make is free because of the generous support of thousands of people just like you. Thanks for being a part of this with us. I'm your host, Michelle Jones, and there's a whole team of people working to bring this podcast to life every week. For a full list of who's involved, check out the show credits in the episode's description. Wherever you stream your podcast and@bibleproject.com.

Michelle Jones

It.