Krystal Ball

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts, tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust. He's at the edge of the box. He cuts past the nonstop group chat, trash talk. He clears on goal.

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He shoots.

Krystal Ball

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Krystal Ball

guys, Sager and Crystal here.

Shelby Talcott

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

Krystal Ball

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

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So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every

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Krystal Ball

to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com hello.

Emily Jashinsky

It is Friday, July 17th, here at Breaking Points Fridays. Uh oh, it's me and Emily. Emily, how are you?

Krystal Ball

I'm good, man. You're doing the soccer thing where you scream at the beginning of the show, which the people love. So if it's working, go for it.

Emily Jashinsky

I was screaming all last night at the TV when we were watching that beautiful, that beautiful Trump speech. Sorry. The rest of the Friday hosts, they had a Taco Bell party without us. And so it's just us here today.

Krystal Ball

It would actually be much more likely to be the other way around, to be fair.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, well, you know what? We're more Del Taco, aren't we? We're Del Taco conservatives. So, you know, never once have I

Krystal Ball

had Del Taco, I'm ashamed to say.

Emily Jashinsky

Wow, try their cheeseburger. But anyways, we've got quite a. That's my order at Del Taco. We've got quite a show today. Setting aside the fast food anomalies, Trump gave a riveting speech that saved democracy in the nation. We're going to get into that with Shelby Talcott from Semaphore in just a minute. We also have some high t testosterone directives from Pete Hegseth. Got some more strikes in Iran with the US And Iran trading strikes over control of the strait. And what else do we have? Oh, we might get into a little bit of Biden towards the end, but wow, Emily. We stayed up last night to cover Trump's big speech. His big announcement, which essentially, correct me if I'm wrong, was that the election was stolen by in 2020 by China.

Krystal Ball

Well, he was a little more like, for example, in Playbook this morning, you could sense POLITICO's playbook. You could sense his aides breathing a sigh of relief because they didn't know how much he would be riffing and how much he would stick to the careful constructed script. And Shelby can tell us more about this, but I think it was probably restrained, a restrained version of Trump still, though, arguing there was a vast international conspiracy to tamper with American elections starting in 2020. He talks about how Maduro sought to change vote talent, vote tallies in Venezuela. That was one of his big points. It was not about the United States. It was supposed to kind of augment his point about how these electronic voting machines can be tampered with. And his argument was Maduro had tried to do it. His argument then was also that China had tried to interfere on behalf of Joe Biden in 2020 and that the FBI slow walked. By the way, if they were doing that in 2020, it would have been under Donald Trump's first administration. But anyway, that the FBI slow walked an investigation into Michigan Democrats trying to have some type of voter interference scheme. He said the CIA or he said the deep state tried to cover up China's election interference and immediately dumped a bunch of documents. Like Griffin, I went to the White House website as the speech was happening, and there were zip files on the website. They created a website for the speech and every. There were four points and every single one of them came with its own zip batch of documents, which people have been piecing through. Some are rather amusing, some are a bit more serious. But he's trying to create this idea that there is some vast international conspiracy that the American deep state and the media is in on to hurt him at the ballot box and that elections are insecure. And he did a big plug for the Save America act, of course, at the end of the speech. So my read on it is that just politically, you have a president who is. His frustration is clearly boiling over. And Griffin, on a production level, you rarely see such an L from Trump. Like, the staging was off. And why am I mentioning that? Because again, I think it just speaks to him being beyond frustrated and starting to spiral a bit like inflation is really stubborn because of the Iran war. In some sense. Because of the Iran war. Obviously the Iran war has been intractable for him. Stubborn, dare I say. And his numbers are showing it. And clearly he's. He's frustrated. Plus he can't get Congress to pass his signature piece of legislation. So it felt like he was frustrated. You joked before we came on air that was. It was giving Joe Brandon.

Emily Jashinsky

It was Brandoning in real time.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, it was. It was giving. Branded a little bit. Like, the lighting was really harsh. The mic was so hot. Like, it made him sound really hoarse, but. And it made him sound just weird. And the staging was off kilter. Like, you had this gold curtain covering most of the backdrop. Yeah, you can see it here. It's not in this clip. I think Fox zoomed in on the shot. I was watching it on the White House feed. And the White House feed, you. You got the white wall behind it. So it was off center. So anyway, let's take a look here.

Emily Jashinsky

That's probably the biggest crime. Yep.

Pete Hegseth

And his government strategy against the United States was focused on undermining domestic confidence in the US President. They wanted to just make you sound like your president wasn't so hot when actually your president has done a great job. And they did everything possible to do exactly that.

Emily Jashinsky

China was trying to make him not hot when he was very much hot. Yeah. This was so boring, I have to say, just incredibly boring. And you know, you went to the website. I went to the website when he announced it and it was very Obamacare because it said temporarily shut, shut down. The website was not active when he first mentioned it. He mentioned quite a few websites, too, actually. But yeah, we're supposed to go to a website and learn it all. And I guess we'll get in more to this with Shelby, but I didn't see anything in these documents that actually ascertained his claims at all, did you?

Krystal Ball

My quick. Well, so my quick read on it is that there's probably a kernel truth in a couple of things. Like, for example, we do know that from Peter Strzok to whomever else, there were people inside of the FBI and the CIA. Like the CIA was organizing signatures for that 51 former intelligence agents letter that got leaked to Natasha Bertrand at Politico saying the Hunter Biden laptop was fake. So obviously there were people who were using their, like, intel positions to undermine Trump. And that happened during his first presidency. So it wouldn't be insane to me if the presidential daily briefing memos that he released, which are highly redacted, so I don't think they're conclusive at all, but if those were reflective of some real effort to keep intel about Chinese election interference away from him, okay, wouldn't surprise me if that had happened. And it also wouldn't surprise me the, like, the, the stuff about the Michigan voter registration thing wouldn't surprise me. We saw that happening in weird ways in 2020 across the country, but that doesn't amount to a vast international conspiracy to install Joe Biden into office. So the scale and scope of it, I think are the, the big question is what I would say. So I think we should bring in Shelby to tell us how people inside of the reacting to this. Shelby Talkett of Semaphore joins us now. Thank you, Shelby, for being here and for staying up late to cover the speech last night so that you could cover it, of course, for your own publication. But also here on Breaking Points, more

Shelby Talcott

importantly for Breaking Points.

Ryan Grim

Yes,

Krystal Ball

yes. Sorry, Ben. But let's get into the reaction. I've seen so far some of the kind of beltway rags, as we call them in the biz, Shelby saying that the White House is breathing a little bit of a sigh of relief right now because people didn't know to what extent Trump would be riffing in his big primetime address last night. It looks like he stuck pretty closely to the script, but I don't know. Can you give us what you're hearing from your sources about what the expectation for the speech was and then the reaction to the reality.

Shelby Talcott

So Republicans writ large, I think, were really nervous ahead of this speech because as we know, the President has been focused for years on the 2020 election. We're getting into the midterms. There was a real concern that if the President came up last night and said the 2020 election was stolen, yada, yada, yada, that that was going to really set them back. And so I actually think for a lot of Republican lawmakers, this speech could have gone a lot worse. He did really stick to the script. You know, John Solomon told reporters afterwards at the White House that every single word of this was reviewed by the CIA. So the administration was taking sort of the legal aspect of this, I think, pretty seriously. And it's notable that the President didn't go off script because, I mean, this is maybe the first, the third time ever that he has stayed on script. And so that's really unusual, and I think speaks to just kind of how focused the administration was on what they can say and what they can't say.

Emily Jashinsky

So what were the big takeaways? Because from my layman's experience, it seemed like he was insisting that China in some way affected the 2020 election. But then the documents revealed on the website, according to multiple outlets, don't really say that. What do these documents posted on the website actually say?

Shelby Talcott

Yeah, so there were several documents. And I think the big takeaway for me is that, you know, when you heard the president's speech, he was sort of, I think, insinuating a lot more than the actual documents say. So the documents do, do note this sort of push from China, but we've also known that for a really long time the administration knew that during the first term, like, that wasn't necessarily new. And they didn't go so far as to say China did affect the 2020 election. Right. And then there was the Venezuela aspect, which I thought was really interesting, where the President was talking about this alleged plot by the Maduro regime to influence Venezuelan elections. And the Trump administration believes that that has sort of vulnerabilities for the US Elections. But again, the actual documents that the administration posted don't necessarily back that up. They don't go as far as the President was going. And so for me, the takeaway was that the president sees a lot of these documents as sort of proof of his 2020 stolen election claims, but the actual documents don't go as far as the president is going. But what I also thought was really interesting from the actual speech is we've heard Trump directly say the 2020 election was stolen, et cetera, for years now. And I thought he was much more couched in his analysis. And you could see how the administration was trying to frame this as this is all about looking forward. This is all about election integrity. Even as all of the documents that were being released, we're talking about past

Emily Jashinsky

elections and specifically on that timeline. Emily, before we. I just had one more follow up on this. So China, according to Trump, not these documents, China steals the election in 2020. But then now that they've accessed and are successfully hacking our elections, and they allowed Biden to win, so what is the. But then they allowed Trump to win again in 2024. So what's the logic there?

Shelby Talcott

Yeah, I think that that's an example of sort of the President looking at maybe one specific aspect and coming to a conclusion that the documents don't necessarily conclude and then kind of just ignoring the rest in his mind. You know what I mean?

Ryan Grim

Yeah.

Krystal Ball

And that. That does appear like what it's looking like to me so far is a question of scale that he wants to allege there's this vast international conspiracy. And what the documents show is probably some modest attempts that aren't entirely surprising to the intelligence world. And there's this DHS review we should talk about as well. Trump says his Department of Homeland Security did a big review of voter registration rules and. And found, I think it was like 278,000 noncitizens had been registered to vote in California, New Jersey, Nevada, and Pennsylvania. The states are already pushing back on that. But, Griffin, I wanted to see if we could just roll some tape here of a couple of the clips. Let's go with. Let's go with the votes clip here.

Pete Hegseth

Put together. These disclosures reveal an election system so broken and so vulnerable that no one can possibly defend it. It is not defensible.

Krystal Ball

Okay, and let's also then, Griffin, play the Venezuela clip just so folks get a taste of what was happening. At one point, Shelby, he blamed the media. We'll get on that. Too many people.

Pete Hegseth

Whether it could actually be possible to electronically manipulate vote totals or change election results on these terrible machines. Today we are releasing documents that show the CIA obtained reporting of a specific plot to do a big number in favor of the corrupt Maduro regime in Venezuela. And that's exactly what happened. Conspiring to digitally rig their own country's elections in 2020. And that's what they did. This reporting included precise details about methods to Regime development to digitally alter vote totals in ways that could not be detected even with an audit, no matter how deep they went. This intelligence underscores why we must take urgent action to ensure that our own system can never ever be hacked or compromised like it was in the past, the fourth set of documents.

Krystal Ball

So that's really interesting the way he finished the last point there, Shelby, because it's obviously giving Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, but he's very like much different is he's much more restrained obviously than they were. But in this big speech he's talking about, I mean I think he might have even started with this point about how it was proven by Maduro allegedly that you could tap into the electronic voting machines, which is that he was changing, that Maduro was trying to change vote tallies electronically. And Trump at the very end there said it's been proven that it can happen. And then he very carefully says, you know, we, we know our elections have been corrupted. So is this an effort to kind of the line between the 2020 wildness and what our intelligence actually shows? Is any of this from Maduro possibly now that he's been imprisoned in the Southern District of New York? There have been conversations about or Delsey Rodriguez obviously who is now basically the being told what to do by Secretary Rubio per reporting. Like that's a, that seemed like maybe the riskiest part of the speech.

Shelby Talcott

Yeah. And I think that this, my understanding is that this came from sort of a CIA discovery, not necessarily Maduro himself post arrest. Of course I'm sure that they're talking to Maduro and maybe we'll learn more. And I'm sure that they have asked him about this because Trump is so focused on it. But I did think that that language that he used was really interesting. And I think it just goes back to my earlier point of this was a very carefully reviewed speech. And I remember talking to Trump administration officials when they were on the campaign trail and they were a lot of them sort of understood that they weren't going to be able to get Trump to stop focusing on the 2020 election, but hoped that he would. And so there has been sort of this years long acknowledgement among at least some of the administration officials that this is not necessarily the best thing for the President to focus on, but we can't get him to not focus on it. So let's try to figure out a way to work around it. And I think this is sort of the first time that you're seeing that they've actually been able to get him to kind of walk around the 2020 stolen election claims instead of, you know, hurtling straight through it.

Emily Jashinsky

Okay, so it's kind of like a participation trophy that he's getting here. That's nice. He was also talking about the SAVE Act. Can we ask, can we talk about the SAVE act for a second here? He mentioned that quite a few times. And, you know, that's to, you know, secure our elections ahead of the midterms. But kind of feels like the midterms are already here, that if they even pass this Save act, it would probably not be implemented in time for the midterms. How is he thinking about all of that? And are Republicans, like, hoping that he also kind of drops that? And what's the popularity amongst the GOP in terms of this Save Act?

Shelby Talcott

Republicans are past the point, I think, of hoping that he's going to drop it because he very clearly isn't. And this for people who don't know, the SAVE act has been a focus of the president's for a few months now. And he's actually held up other legislation, bipartisan legislation, in order to try to get it passed. And so this is something that he has been sort of acutely, acutely focused on, regardless of the fact that lawmakers have come to him and said, we don't have the votes to be able to do this. And so ostensibly, I think that the same speech was an effort to get Republicans to pass the SAVE act because his, the president's thinking was, I'm going to present all of this evidence to show that our elections allegedly aren't secure enough and that will change some of these lawmakers minds. And then this piece of legislation that I want will get passed. That was sort of the whole background reasoning behind this primetime address. I don't know that it's going to work. Right. We talked to a lot of Republicans beforehand. We talked to Republicans afterwards. I think people are pretty set in their beliefs at this point about the SAVE Act. And there's no path right now to, to breaking a filibuster in the Senate either, which the president has called for.

Krystal Ball

And Shelby, I'm sure you saw this Daily Call report at the time that John Thrune in a closed door meeting of Senate Republicans basically said, according to multiple sources, that there are some senators who just hate Trump so much that they refuse to support the Save America Act. And the reason I put this up on the screen is that I'm curious for your take on the genesis of this speech, like, is this something that is rooted In Trump's frustrations with Senate Republicans about the SAVE act, is this him genuinely concerned about the midterm elections, which he's also said he doesn't care about and he's not on the ballot. So is this him trying to claw his way out of where the numbers have gone over the course of the Iran war? Gas prices still hanging pretty high, could go higher because the MOU blew up. Basically, like, what was this coming from? Why did this have to happen last night? Why did he decide to make it a primetime address? What was the thinking, as best as you can tell, behind it?

Shelby Talcott

So the big reason why it's happening now, I will say, is because the president appointed Acting Director of National Intelligence Bill Pulte a few weeks ago. And one of his directives from the president was, I want you to go in there, I want you to declassify all of this stuff from past elections regarding election integrity. And so that was a direct directive for Bill Pulte. And so he went in and on day one started trying to do that. And so that's, I think, the timeline wise, why you're seeing it all of a sudden sort of seemingly randomly come up. But I also think that the president's thinking on this is he wants to pass the Save America act first and foremost. And I think it's less about the midterms, which he has grown to care about more than he did a few months ago, and more about his focus, his continued focus on the 2020 election.

Krystal Ball

Interesting.

Emily Jashinsky

What signals that he is caring more about the midterms now? I mean, he's been quite rambunctious with this Iran war, and that seems to not be going well. The economy, gas prices. What was the moment that signaled to you that he's actually cared or worried about the midterms now?

Shelby Talcott

I get that sense from people who are close to him inside and outside the administration who have admitted to me in prior months that he is not as focused as they would like him to be on the midterms. And so they have argued that they've seen a little bit of a shift. And I say a little bit. It's not like he is that. Is it lazy? Focused on. Right. He's still very much focused on his legacy. He's still very much focused on foreign policy, despite lawmakers urging him to just ignore all of that and talk about the economy and try to get gas prices down. But I think that they have, they sense that over the past few months he's had some wins and that has gotten him more interested in the midterms than he was prior. I think originally he. His thinking was, and he said this out loud was, well, you know, every time, if a Republican is in office, we do poorly in the midterms. Democrat is in office, they do poorly in the midterms. So he was kind of like, what's the point? And I think that the advisors close to him who care really a lot about the midterms, have been able to convince him, at least a little bit, that it is actually important.

Krystal Ball

And Shelby, finally, he implicated NBC and I think ABC News in some plot and threatened to revoke their licenses, or at least he said they should have their licenses because they didn't at one point. And Right. At one point, by the way, or I should say, overall, it did seem like the speech was a bit low energy. And it. It did feel kind of off kilter for a man like Trump that, like, love him or hate him, his skill is television. He schedules his primetime address. And it just felt weird for Trump. But that we shouldn't downplay, I guess, the severity of what he was alleging and the directions he did go in at certain points, talking about potentially revoking media licenses. It's a threat that he's made over the last 10 years. But, Shelby, why are. Are you complicit in this? And why do you hate America?

Emily Jashinsky

You know, that's my question.

Shelby Talcott

Yeah, I'm trying to get out of here. So he's going to like this.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, that's right. We should. No, we will not do that. But how serious was that moment? And is that also reflecting anything? I guess it's probably not new. He's been doing this over the last 10 years, but I don't know. To me, he just seemed really frustrated, more so than usual in that speech last night.

Shelby Talcott

Yeah, it's not new. But also this term, you have seen him actually act on some of these threats against media companies and against media individuals. So I would take it pretty seriously because this is something that he has grown increasingly frustrated about as much as he has this sort of relationship with the press where he'll answer our calls and he'll, you know, attack a reporter and then talk to them in private and act like nothing's wrong. He has grown really, really frustrated overall with the media. And you've seen that. You've seen that in how he has directed the DoJ to go after reporters. You've seen that in the way that Brendan Carr is. Is operating on that side of things. And so I would take that threat seriously. And I do think that there is a growing frustration from him because he feels like nobody is taking these claims seriously, that really he's one of the only people that is still focused on it.

Emily Jashinsky

So it's very lonely at the top. And speaking of media companies not taking it seriously, Fox News was very, very careful in their reporting of this speech. I think they're still feeling the sting of the Dominion lawsuits. I think they hear election integrity and they feel trauma, trauma triggers from that. So Fox News, I don't know if you caught any of their coverage, but they were very, very careful to say that even they cannot confirm any of the allegations in the speech or reaction to that.

Shelby Talcott

It doesn't surprise me after the lawsuit. And I think that's the reason why a lot of the networks were reluctant to air it live, because you knew that it was going to be about elections, and you just don't know what the President is going to say. And he does have a track record of saying things that aren't backed up by the information that we have. And so I think a lot of the networks took this as, you know, a precaution. I'm sure that they talked to their lawyers who said, listen, this is just not worth it. We'll. We'll air portions of it after the fact, we'll talk about it, et cetera. But Fox is in an interesting position. Right. Because they are a conservative leading news outlet that the President watches a lot. But I thought it was really telling that they were so careful in how they were describing his allegations and noting that they were not able to independently verify it. That is, that came straight from the lawyers, I'm sure.

Emily Jashinsky

And finally. Oh, sorry. Go for it.

Krystal Ball

Oh, go. Go for it. Griffin.

Emily Jashinsky

I was just gonna say Emily also mentioned that he was off kilter, but that's because he didn't have his favorite teleprompter operator.

Pete Hegseth

No, no, no.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, possibly. This is what I was going to say. I'm thinking it was a new guy. It was that way. So. So this teleprompter operator who has now been implicated in a Kalshi trading situation, and they're trying to maybe get, like, a settlement where he just says he won't do it again and pays restitution. He'd been with Trump for, what, 10 years, Shelby. So you can. You can tell us now he had a new guy doing the prompter last night. Yeah.

Shelby Talcott

So Caroline Levitt confirmed that the individual who is the subject of this investigation, who was placing bets, and I think he got like a hundred thousand Dollars, which I don't know if that's worth ruining your entire life over. That's the question for another day. She confirmed that he is on unpaid administrative leave, and so he was not operating the teleprompter last night.

Krystal Ball

Well, the clips that we've shown so far, this has absolutely nothing to do with anything. But the clips that we've shown so far were zoomed in by the networks. I think we were showing FOX clips. And what you saw on the White House feed was different. It was completely off center, and it's driving me nuts.

Shelby Talcott

See the white at the end?

Krystal Ball

Yes. And Shelby, it's just, again, it's a small thing. It means absolutely nothing.

Emily Jashinsky

You care so much about this. It's so funny.

Krystal Ball

I'm just saying, for Trump, that's weird. Like, he never lets that stuff happen.

Shelby Talcott

It seems to me it is really interesting because as we all know, Trump is a performer, Performer at heart. He did television for years, and over the years, people have talked about how obsessed he is with how things look. Right. He talks about his administration officials being out of central casting. He likes how people look. He will sit down before an interview and there's clips of him out. There'll be a water next to him, and he'll say, no, no, let's put this on this side. And then he'll say, okay, let's move it back.

Krystal Ball

He knows down to the lighting. Like, he. He actually will control the lighting. He'll say the lighting should be like this. Like, you should have it on this number. This warmth. Like, he actually is that detailed about this.

Shelby Talcott

At the recent. He recently was interviewed by NBC and it was like downpouring rain. And whatever structure they were in, I think was like, entirely metal. And he was so frustrated by the noise of the rain, he ended the interview. And I think that was part of the reason why, was because there were, like, all these technical logistical issues. And for him, that, like, doesn't compute.

Krystal Ball

Fascinating.

Emily Jashinsky

This teleprompter guy, he went down for, like, making, like, a hundred grand, which I shouldn't be a lot more than that, if you're know the words coming up. Like, these are somehow very conservative bets to me. You know, I think if the speeches are going to continue to be this boring and lethargic, bring that guy back. Let's get the old guy back in there. Okay.

Krystal Ball

Let's have some fun.

Emily Jashinsky

Let's have some fun. Shelby, any final thoughts?

Shelby Talcott

That's it for me.

Krystal Ball

All right.

Emily Jashinsky

Thank you for joining us. Where can people find your work? Obviously, Semaphore and where can people find you online?

Shelby Talcott

I am on X. I still almost said Twitter Elby Talcott and then I post on my Instagram which is just S.B. talcott.

Emily Jashinsky

Very nice everyone go check.

Krystal Ball

She's one of the best.

Emily Jashinsky

Follow Shelby and we'll of course see you soon for potentially more election integrity or whatever else happens this year with the midterms. Thank you. We'll see you soon.

Shelby Talcott

Thanks.

Emily Jashinsky

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Tucker Carlson

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Emily Jashinsky

Well, one Tucker Carlson was not impressed with the speech. Maybe this was taped before the speech, but one Tucker Carlson went on a podcast and said, God bless the Democrats. Let's take a listen.

Tucker Carlson

I'm so thankful we were saved by the Democrats. Don't often say that.

Krystal Ball

That.

Tucker Carlson

But it's true in this case. Ten years from now, no member of Congress is going to vote to appropriate money to the idf, because by that point, we'll know exactly what they did in Gaza. So what they're trying to do is codify this and take that decision from a public Democratic forum, the Congress, the lawmaking body, and move it to the Pentagon procurement office, which is totally opaque. Right. So that's. And that's why Bibi's like, oh, you know, really, we think we should get off U.S. military aid. No, you're trying to make it permanent in a way people won't perceive. So what o', Connor, for example, we don't agree on much, but we strongly agree on this. Well, I'm still an outlier on the right, and you guys are, too, but on the left, I know from going through airports two days ago there, this is a huge issue on the left. And God bless them for making it that against the wishes of their leaders. By the way, Chuck Schumer doesn't want to talk about this, but a lot of Democratic voters do. And I just think Representatives watching those three races in New York City, those primaries where Mandani got behind three Democratic socialists and they all beat incumbents like, wow, how'd that happen? Israel. That's how it happened.

Krystal Ball

All right, so that was him on with the American conservative. Definitely taped, not with the speech, but that was him on with Harry Berger, American conservative. Guys, they have a good podcast. And Griffin had.

Emily Jashinsky

The conservative guy's last name is Berger. That's awesome.

Krystal Ball

He's Glenn's old producer.

Emily Jashinsky

Oh, very cool.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, he's. I don't. He probably wouldn't call himself conservative, but he does work at tac anyway, so that's Tucker saying. Actually something that reminds me of when he apologized Griffin for supporting Trump after the Iran war was launched and saying that he regrets it and has guilt over it. So not entirely surprising, but probably will send Tucker into another controversy spiral on the right for saying, God bless the Democrats. But, you know, meanwhile, let's actually just talk a bit about developments in the Iran war, because right now, as we're recording this the According to CBS News, Iran's Revolutionary Guard claimed a new series of strikes targeting US Military facilities across the Middle east on Friday. I'll just put it up on the screen. They say that spaces on Syria, Kuwait, Oman, Bahrain and Jordan. In Syria, they claim to have sent, quote, large numbers of criminal American forces to their deaths. And we don't have any updates about that so far. On Friday from the American military ship crews are on the Strait of Hormuz. CBS says are unwilling to make the risky trips to the Strait of Hormuz because of the breakdown of the ceasefire. They said they've gone back. This is, they're quoting the CEO of a Greek maritime risk management company who said, quote, we've gone back to the worst case scenario. Nobody is willing to move. The US Military said it completed a sixth consecutive night of strikes early Friday hitting, quote, dozens of Iranian military targets. Gets so again, Griffin, if you're Tucker Carlson, you probably do have a lot of guilt at this point. This is the one thing you had been advocating over and over again against. And then even when some people on the right thought Trump had struck what felt like a durable MOU with the Iranians, it pretty quickly fell back into the escalation trap territory.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah. So I mean, Tucker is reacting to this vote to fund aid to Israel that the largest amount of Democrats ever voted against. Even people that, you know, people like Rep. Adam Smith who are, you know, about Zionists who now see the writing on the wall. Now, it still did pass, but I mean, it was a sea change to see people like Pelosi even see where the winds are blowing, which I think makes, you know, if Pelosi, who is, you know, on her way out, can see where the wind's blowing. But we still have people like Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, the people that are supposed to be like around for longer, they're still gonna die on this hill. I think is, is is quite stunning, to be honest with you. What is Catherine Clark.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, Catherine Clark is the number two Democrat in the House of Representatives, not somebody seen as like a squad adjacent person in any way whatsoever. To see that the number two House Democrat wouldn't even go along with Jeffries on that is really powerful. And to Tucker's point, he said he discovered this in an airport. I think he probably knew this long before. But Griffin, this has become, and you know, this the animating force behind the 2026 primary season. For Democrats, it is where the energy is. It is the central litmus test for Democratic candidates, even to the point where candidates who in the case of Scott Wiener simply didn't say they believed it was a genocide quickly enough are getting shouted out of a pride parade, pride event, because again, like, he was just too late to it. That's how central of a litmus test it is. And for Hakeem Jeffries to not pick up on that, to still vote the way that he did, I don't know, maybe he's just trying to run out the clock. It's crazy.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah. And it's like, you know, I think the, the lines that I hear from the more centrist liberals is just like, why is everyone still talking about Israel? Like, why can't we care about this or that? And it's like, well, they're dumping like $40 million into races across the country. Like it's, they have made it impossible to ignore. I would love to have to get, to stop talking about Israel and aipac. You know, we have to talk about it every week because they are central players not only in the war that was started that's raising all the prices in our economy, but in our basic democratic process all across the country. So, you know, we, we would love to stop talking about them. But there's also this question, you know, like, where does, like in your opinion, Emily, like Tucker's, where's Tucker's, like base operations? Because if you look at like MAGA based polling on the, they still support the war. So is, is, is Tucker's audience now maga, Is it just young barstool conservatives and then some like, disaffected Democrats? You know, I know that Cenk Uygur at the TYT has been trying to make this sort of this MAGA left alliance or what have you. But it really seems like based on this vote that just occurred, that now Tucker is saying God bless them for that. The real route to checking Israel is not with the Republican Party, it's with the Democratic Party,

Krystal Ball

at least for now. I mean, that's one thing Republicans are underestimating is how much the public opinion has shifted, particularly with Republicans under the age of 30. So that doesn't necessarily mean there's a change coming imminently. It just means that their position is probably unsustainable, depending on, again, like, we're in the middle of Iran is claiming that they killed a bunch of American soldiers and our military is denying that today. But if that happens this into the future, it's clearly not going to be a viable position for Republicans. But the question is, there's still plenty of Boomers voting Republican. It's not as polarized with Gen X Republicans. The question is, what happens? When does it become, when do millennials and Gen Z voters hit critical mass in the Republican voting block? So I get that. I think for now it's, it clearly is from the Democrats. And you have people like Thomas Massie who are, you know, as he talked about on Breaking Points this week with Roana, trying to buck the trend a bit, but they're still in the minority. And that's where I think Tucker's audience to get back to your question comes from is, yes, MAGA is overwhelmingly still behind Trump on the Iran war. MAGA is favorable towards Israel. But there has been some peeling away of people from maga. It's not a lot. It's a slim minority. Those are the people, I think, that are listening to Tucker, along with the record number of Americans who identify as independent that we've seen. I think it was Gallup that had that polling. So I think it is people who are more and more identifying not even as Democrats or Republicans, but as independents. And then also the people who peeled away from MAGA because they thought the one thing Trump would never do is start a war in Iran, which I think it doesn't make a lot of sense to think Trump would not start a war in Iran. But here he was last night talking about how we are winning big in

Pete Hegseth

Iran, barrels of oil, we are likewise winning big in Iran. And you will see the fruits of that labor very, very shortly. America is back and doing really well.

Emily Jashinsky

We're back and doing really well. Meanwhile, and I did, meanwhile, I wanted to flag, there's been some dust ups with lots of boats in the strait. US Central Command posted that American forces have redirect three commercial vessels trying to run the blockade, disabled one that didn't comply and boarded one to ensure full compliance. And I think they have some images here that they threw up of boarding ships. And I do think that this did spook the Iranians a little bit because their one, for lack of a better word, trump card is control of this strait. And it does seem like as we are resuming hostilities, that we're trying to make a bigger show that we are controlling the strait and taking away that card from the Iranians, which I think means that the Iranians have said they're going to have to escalate. It does feel to me like the Iranians are really scared of sort of a, like a, like a media story of them actually blowing up, up like big commercial ships. They've Kind of pulled back and, like, restrained themselves from a big slideshow of images where they seem like the bad guys, where they're, where they're taking down a bunch of ships in the Strait. But it does seem like with efforts like this, that they're going to have to potentially do that. What do you make of that?

Krystal Ball

That's an interesting point because obviously Trump has had a hard time rallying, like, the international community around the Iran war. And I think it's not necessarily because, you know, some of some American allies wouldn't support, especially, like, more neoconservative folks in those governments wouldn't support a robust military action against Iran. It's probably just because of the way Trump has executed it. Even the fact that we're talking about the Strait of Hormuz right now shows why some of those allies probably have not rallied around Trump. It's just that the Strait of Hormuz was open and the traffic was flowing freely. I mean, the prices in other countries are way more dramatic. If you think that they've been bad here in places like Australia, they're dealing with this on another level entirely. And they have been over the course of the, of the war. So I could see how Iran wouldn't necessarily want to give members of, like, the international community who might be American allies reason to change the way they see the, the war and to maybe be more supportive. So it could be coming from something like that. But I also think it's worth noting. This is Senator Tommy Tuberville, who was on, I think this is Newsmax recently saying this is just in the last 24 hours, quote, I'm all for President Trump and what he does. He knows a lot more about it than we do. I don't think we would put ground troops in Iran now. Ground troops on Carg island is different because it is away from mainland Iran. And I have seen more of a drumbeat, Griffin, towards potential action on Karg island just in the last couple of days. So that leaves us back in the escalation trap territory. And even the fact that this is the Strait of Hormuz, which was open, it's so ridiculous to even be talking about it because it's not him. Him saying we are winning big in Iran. It makes literally no sense whatsoever because by that standard, we had won so resoundingly before the war because the strain of Hormuz was open and ships were flowing freely through it.

Emily Jashinsky

I am fully tired of the winning here. And it does seem like we are in that escalation trap in that Loop Trump has mentioned we've done forever wars in the past. Vietnam took 19 years, you know, Iraq, Afghanistan. But, you know, Vietnam was not able to halt the global economy, which, which then, you know, it questions whether, like, can this actually go on forever? I mean, we could do it for a little bit, stop, refuel again, I guess. But it does seem to be just structurally so different that, that I don't think we can continue this and continue to put these strains on the economy with any kind of political future for the Republicans.

Krystal Ball

Well, I just don't think the American people, I mean, Vietnam was so different because most of the public was bought into this idea for a long time until we lost so many people in that war. The public was. Nuclear warfare was fresh on everybody's mind, literally people diving under desks to do nuclear drills. And the public was much more bought into this idea that the Soviet Union and containment, or let's just say the Soviet Union was a really serious foil to the Western system. And you had that buy in for containment type policies and things like the war in Vietnam where people were genuinely afraid that there was a serious, kinetic, constant threat of nuclear retaliation from the Soviet Union and like a mass casualty, potentially apocalyptic event at any given moment. And there's nothing like that right now from people related to Iran, which doesn't, even unlike the Soviet Union at the time, does not have nuclear weapons. And so that's, it's much higher, harder for the President to, if he's, if he's looking back at Vietnam for the politics of this, which some conservatives do, because they look at how Nixon handled it now there's a big Nixon renaissance on the right and say, you know, you had the silent majority, you have the hippie backlash and all those sorts of things. It's not even close in terms of the politics though. Like it's not at all in, anywhere near what that was. So if Trump is looking back on Vietnam as like an instructive parallel for a potential long conflict with Iran, good luck. He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts, tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust. He's at the edge of the box. He cuts past the non stop group chat, trash talk. He clears on goal.

Emily Jashinsky

He shoots

Krystal Ball

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Krystal Ball

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Ryan Grim

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Krystal Ball

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Emily Jashinsky

so so, thankfully, we have a new strategic solution to change the momentum of the war because it seems like too many of our soldiers are low t now. I've been saying this for a long time, Emily.

Krystal Ball

You have. You say this every day.

Emily Jashinsky

I'm really happy that the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, came out and he's changing all of that.

Ryan Grim

At the Department of War, we have the most elite warriors on the face of the earth. Every single day, you are pushed to your absolute physical and mental limits. Limits to master the professional breaking points. We demand your all, and you give it. But while we invest heavily in our weapon systems, platforms and gear, our most decisive tactical advantage will always be the individual warfighter. We have a sacred duty to maintain that advantage, which is why we must constantly look for new ways to optimize your performance, your resilience, and your long term health. And to meet that commitment today, I'm authorizing a new screening program for testosterone deficiency for our service members, ensuring you have the right testosterone levels to operate at your absolute best. Because it's well established science that as we age, testosterone levels often naturally drop under the supervision of our world class medical professionals. War fighters age 30 and older are going to be tested annually as part of their periodic health assessment. It's a health assessment that happens every year. We're just adding this test. Those under 30 can voluntarily choose to get the test as well.

Emily Jashinsky

Okay, good.

Ryan Grim

If treatment is recommended, it's entirely your choice to receive testosterone replacement therapy.

Emily Jashinsky

All right, so we're going to get everyone on testosterone. How do you, how do you feel about that, Emily?

Krystal Ball

Is this a breaking points policy? Will this also be implemented for our team so that we can also operate? I'm not saying that the women. I don't want to single out any sex, but so that the, maybe the men on the show could operate at their highest level.

Emily Jashinsky

I, I've been giving the men estrogen, which I, which I thought, you know what would help, you know, you've been

Krystal Ball

to sing Ryan's Coffee.

Emily Jashinsky

I have, I have Sagar specialty brand of coffee or whatever. You know, this also leads.

Krystal Ball

I think soccer's probably all for this. By the way, I wish Sagar were here because he would probably fully endorse this. From Secretary Hegseth.

Emily Jashinsky

Yes, everyone should get a testosterone and a pack of Zin, which I'm sure they already, already have. Now this kind of also leads to a flyover that occurred that was getting some, some comments. Have you seen this flyover, Emily?

Shelby Talcott

No.

Krystal Ball

So was this fourth of July? I think I saw this.

Emily Jashinsky

If you're just listening to the podcast, we've got a US Navy jet fighter flying feet above a beach of onlookers here that maybe this was the, the first, first guy to get on some tea here.

Krystal Ball

He was just high teeth, high tea flying. Well, actually, Griffin, this reminded me. Go ahead.

Emily Jashinsky

Are you, are you, are you a fan of this? Are you, does this, is this patriotic? Near, near collisions with, with crowds of people. I got a still image here. I also want to pull up while you react to it.

Krystal Ball

Oh, yeah, let's, let's. Oh, that's incredible. I mean, listen, that's impressive flying. It's dangerous flying. That's impressive flying.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah.

Krystal Ball

You know, the flyers just don't really ever do it for me. I think it's a male versus female thing probably. I know men get really excited about the planes going fast.

Emily Jashinsky

I love it and I want to, I want to one up it. I want to say, you know, let's all, let's let's, let's not just flyovers. I want to do drive overs. I want to lay down in the street and have the tanks roll over me. You know, I want to, I want to sit between the tracks.

Krystal Ball

You would like that? Well, just to know everything's going on a serious note. Did you catch the point where he's talking about as you age your testosterone goes down? It reminded me of people probably remember back in March, the Army I'm looking at an ABC News headline quote, extends maximum recruitment age to 42, allowing older recruits to join. So he might actually be reacting to the fact that for in order to meet recruitment targets. I would imagine that's why they extended the age. It does make. I like, I don't want to mock it too much. So that's a jump from 35 years old to 42. That happened during 2006. That was the Iraq war. But then they brought it back down to 35. According to this ABC News report, Marines capped at 28. I think it, listen, it doesn't, it's not entirely crazy as people are just like maximizing longevity, living longer, those sorts of things that you would, would bump it up to 42. The average 42 year old who would be interested in joining the army right now. That is to say self selecting group of people is probably healthier than they were, I don't know, 40 years ago just based on like what your biological age is. I don't know. There's a lot of unhealthy Americans out there of course. But anyway maybe this is what it's about is they have an older group of people joining the army now and you can screen yourself for testosterone.

Emily Jashinsky

I want to meet the 42 year old that, that's signing up to get involved. That would be a very interesting breaking points interview. Someone was very happy about the testosterone news though. And one Jesse Waters on Fox. Let's hear what he has to say. You lose your endurance muscle mass. So yeah, I want these guys on it. But you know what's going to happen. The guys that don't need it are going to take it to triple boost, right. And then they're going to get out there and women on base, you guys better be careful. Port calls, women in Asia, you better be careful because these guys are going to be animals. You better watch out. You should have held his hand.

Krystal Ball

I yeah, but I don't know if I would have.

Emily Jashinsky

Oh, all right.

Krystal Ball

So Jesse said on Fox News, watch

Emily Jashinsky

out in Asia, they're going to rape you.

Krystal Ball

Oops. There which, by the way, from Jesse Waters, who has admitted to having an affair with his producer. This man knows high T behavior so well.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, maybe. Maybe, you know, so high tea that

Krystal Ball

he tried to have a fist fight with Ryan Groom.

Emily Jashinsky

That. That was a. But that was a low T. That was probably pre testosterone because I think he got his ass kicked.

Krystal Ball

Ryan. Ryan should be the one lecturing us about testosterone.

Emily Jashinsky

I would love to see Ryan on some testosterone instead of what he normally does, which is microdose. So but maybe we can all microdose a little tea. But maybe, maybe leave the port call women alone if we can. If we can avoid it. Or we'll have to go back to estrogen.

Krystal Ball

My take on this is that it seems like it might be a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But it seems rather telling that they decided to make a big public show of this with a message from Hegseth, like a direct to camera announcement, bragging about it. Like, I could see that there's probably possibly some medical rationale for doing this, but Hegseth doing this, like direct to camera, big rollout of it is somewhat amusing.

Emily Jashinsky

All right, well, let's turn our attention to another high T individual. I, of course, I'm speaking about Joe Biden, who is out with a new book about his times and travels. Let's take a listen.

Krystal Ball

Since I left the presidency, I've had a lot of people ask me to Joe, what have you been doing? I've been spending a lot of time with my family. I'm dealing with a cancer diagnosis and I've been getting treatment and it's been going really well.

Emily Jashinsky

Oh, good.

Krystal Ball

I want to thank all those, offer their prayers and support and well wishes. This meant the world to me and to Jill. I've written a book about my time as president.

Ryan Grim

It.

Krystal Ball

It's called Promise me America. It's coming out in November. It's available for pre order now.

Emily Jashinsky

All right, well, it goes on for another minute 30 that I will not subject people to. But let me just say, like, so he's like, has. He's. He's going through a cancer treatment, but he was going to be president again. And you know, this is an edited thing that he probably got multiple takes and is still slurring through it. It. I mean, what. What an incredible. I guess just an ego that. That he's still willing to walk out there when I think the majority of the Democratic party wants to never hear from him again.

Krystal Ball

It's amazing. And the book, actually, now that you say that, it's worth mentioning is coming out, I think, November 17th. So it's coming out after the midterms, which Jill Biden did not have the courtesy to wait for. Joe Biden dropped that book. What was it? Last month, and has been on a disastrous media tour. Do you have the Clinton clip, Griffin, of. It's horrible. Horrible. Crystal said this in our group chat yesterday. I was watching it and thought that I was actually physically going to have some type of allergic reaction. This is 92nd. Why? Weird moment at the end of a Jill Biden book talk with Whoopi Goldberg. If you're listening to this there on stage at 92nd. And why Biden himself is in the crowd and they are clapping and turning to him.

Emily Jashinsky

All right, so lots of applause. He's wandering up front. He's sauntering up

Krystal Ball

slowly.

Emily Jashinsky

All right, all right.

Krystal Ball

Oh, Joe has a question.

Shelby Talcott

Like you couldn't ask it later?

Krystal Ball

Who do you love most in the whole world? Whoopi. And so I'm going to do the last.

Ryan Grim

No,

Krystal Ball

I love you most, Joe. Was that it? Is that the answer he wanted?

Ad Read Voice 1

Yes.

Krystal Ball

Overwhelming.

Shelby Talcott

Well, that's what keeps him on his toes. He's never 100% sure. I always keep him guessing.

Krystal Ball

Is that not true? He's doing the sign of the cross, which you would.

Emily Jashinsky

I thought you'd like that. Emily.

Krystal Ball

Last thing I have to say is, please remind people to pick up now. I know it says book.

Emily Jashinsky

So Whoopi's trying to reassert control over the stage, but Joe has not left. Joe is frozen at the front here.

Krystal Ball

But look at. Oh, yeah. And then they roll out a racial slur.

Emily Jashinsky

Wait, really? I missed that. Let's go back.

Krystal Ball

Well, to pick up now, I know it says books, but look at.

Shelby Talcott

Oh, yeah, gooks. It looks like gooks.

Emily Jashinsky

Oh, my.

Pete Hegseth

Unbelievable.

Ad Read Voice 1

What?

Tucker Carlson

What?

Emily Jashinsky

What is going on? Jill, you're not. You're not senile. Like, what?

Krystal Ball

Is that possible?

Emily Jashinsky

It's infectious, maybe.

Krystal Ball

Yes, you're right. But I'm going to remind them. But I'm to remind people to pick up books on your way out. The name of the book is the View from the East Wing. And that concludes our conversation.

Pete Hegseth

Thank you.

Krystal Ball

Thank you so much.

Emily Jashinsky

Okay, so now they hug. And now Jo is still there, and he's trying to get some more words in.

Krystal Ball

He's like a sad puppy.

Emily Jashinsky

I'm gonna have to lower the. So they're trying to play him off Oscar music style. And he's putting his finger up,

Krystal Ball

Sir.

Emily Jashinsky

So now they hand him a mic.

Krystal Ball

Book, which comes out in September. Well, I Have to remind him this is my event. The only thing Jill does better than write, she's a beautiful woman.

Shelby Talcott

Oh, wow.

Krystal Ball

I always say that about Crystal

Pete Hegseth

as

Emily Jashinsky

you wander around the stage, the only

Krystal Ball

thing Crystal's by the right. Beautiful woman.

Emily Jashinsky

Beautiful woman. Incredible. That's the. If that's the one thing she's right about, it's that.

Krystal Ball

That was terrible.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah. These people don't understand that everyone hates them now. I mean, I guess, I mean, like, maybe the people in that room are fine or whatever, but, I mean, it's like Jill Biden, it. The Jill, not Joe, is such a villain. Like the fact that this is like some level of elder abuse that she was trying to drag him through. I mean, this guy can't operate a car, much less like a golf cart. And she wanted this guy to be in office for another four years so she could what, like, do more rearrangement of the Rose Garden? Like what? Like, it's, it's. It is just so slimy and evil. But I guess you gotta sell your books. Gotta get your book sales out there. But I cannot imagine him doing four more years in office.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, it's great to never lose sight of that. And you probably remember when it was Favreau on POD Save a couple of months back, was talking about how it's not as though people are going to the polls and saying, I refuse to vote Democrat because I don't trust the Democratic Party that told me Joe Biden was fine and should be president and then, you know, know, prevented us from having a real primary after he had to drop out in the debate. But it's something that lingers in people's heads and probably is a huge barrier for them to voting Democrat in the future. Now Republicans will have a similar problem with Trump, probably where people just don't necessarily trust all of the folks around Trump if they're running for. If JD Vance is running for office and there's a general election and he's the Republican nominee, Trump is at 56% unpopularity, unfavorability, I should say, in the real quick politics average right now. So it's not like it's just a Democrat problem. But when you see videos like this, I think it does remind people of how much enabling, complicity and just evil there was surrounding Biden. The media's unwillingness to publish tough stories until, like the very last minute is just crazy. It's absolutely crazy. And yes, the White House was threatening people, bullying the press and trying to conceal this, and they couldn't at, you know, A certain point, they couldn't keep a lid on it. But to see it now and think that he could be the sitting president, United States is just. Yeah, it's a. It's a reminder of how. I think you're right. Jill Biden ends up looking truly despicable because she's out there hawking her book. Her husband's the president, the former president, and they're making him, like, sit. And they clearly don't want to deal with him when he wants to say something. They're making him, like, sit in the audience. He doesn't want to. He doesn't want to just sit in the audience. He wants to say something. He wants to promote his own book. And they're like, get out of here. Get out of here. This is the Jill Show.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah. I mean, I think, like, a smart Democratic Party would get rid of her completely, like I think they should. I mean, I don't know. No one's going to read these books. They're just going to fill up warehouses somewhere.

Krystal Ball

Whoopi should refuse to do events like that. 90 second why she refused to do events like that.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's absolutely absurd. And I just wanted us to just. Just take a trip down memory lane to when things could have been changed, when there could have been a pivot. Jill Biden stuck her nails in even deeper into probably my favorite quote of the 2024 election, that you knew all the facts. You answered every question. This is after Biden's disastrous debate. Let's drop it, Joe.

Krystal Ball

You did such a great job. You answered every question. You knew all the fact. And let me ask the crowd, what did Trump do?

Pete Hegseth

Lie.

Krystal Ball

So she writes about this in her book and says she believes that Biden was having her husband at one point during the debate when he crashes out and says, we beat me. She says she thought he was having a stroke and then went on stage afterwards and says, you did a great job. You. All the facts, like. And talks about in the book. What was I supposed to do? What was I supposed. No, don't do the event afterwards. Cancel the event. If you thought your husband had a stroke, get him to a hospital. Ma'. Am.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, she said.

Krystal Ball

She.

Emily Jashinsky

She said, like, it was a stroke. But imagine he. He did really well if it was a stroke. Right. That's pretty good.

Krystal Ball

That's a good point. That's a good point, actually. If anything, she was just being honest because he did know all the facts and answered every question, despite having a stroke, which is something to celebrate Right.

Emily Jashinsky

Yes. And I guess that takes us like full circle from what, you know, felt like Trump in some stage of the brandening, decaying process. I think he's Trump is just more at the lethargic, kind of sleepy Joe, I would say stage. We're not at the wandering stage with Trump as much, but wow, we truly do have some of the oldest politicians that have ever spoken to or been alive. I mean, it is truly embarrassing. So I think we will leave.

Krystal Ball

Well, you said alive, but we don't,

Emily Jashinsky

we're not, we're not fully sure about that.

Krystal Ball

The there's a man right now who is in control of a committee that does defense appropriations as we are funding the war in Ukraine and are now basically at war in Iran, who there's serious debate about whether or not he's alive. And that would be Mitch McConnell. So while you said they're alive, I just wanted add that that clarification, Griffin. It's a bit unclear.

Emily Jashinsky

You know, I appreciate that flag. And actually in context, I have a lot more respect for Mitch McConnell because he's not trying to speak, he's not trying to put out a book.

Krystal Ball

He, you know, he doesn't know all the facts. He's not going to answer every question.

Emily Jashinsky

Exactly. That's classy. I respect that. You know, like we don't finally an honest politician and I don't have to deal with his wife. His wife just immediately just, just disappeared to China.

Krystal Ball

She, well, the story is she was in China and didn't think she had to come back, even though we now know the 911 call is that he was unresponsive and CPR was being performed. It just didn't warrant her returning from a trip to China where she was meeting with some of Xi Jinping's top allies. So good stuff. Thank you.

Emily Jashinsky

Elaine Chow, the love story of a lifetime. Well, I think that's going to do it for this segment. All right, let's answer some questions from the the Breaking Points members. Of course, you can submit one yourself if you become a member@breakingpoints.com and we try to read them on Fridays. Let's start with Bohegas. Kevin, would Emily consider giving a breakdown of Wisconsin's upcoming elections? Now, I have been tracking one Francesca Hong, a dsa, another DSA candidate, another crazy communist who is running for governor of Wisconsin. What do you think her chances are are?

Krystal Ball

Well, I think they're probably not terrible. If we're talking about the primary, I think it's, it's possible she wins the primary. Wisconsin I think people forget is one of the kind of traditional socialist bastions in modern American history. So it's not, like, completely insane that a socialist in Wisconsin would have some chance in a general election. That obviously gets a lot tougher. But we should. Griffin, I think, zoom in on that race. I want to say it's the week after the Michigan primary, so it'll be front and center in the weeks ahead. But it's definitely an interesting Democratic primary to watch, just because you have a state like Wisconsin with a history of socialism, with a lot of the problems that DSA folks are talking about. And bear in mind, Bernie trounced Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin. It was not even close in the primary in 2016. So. So not crazy. That Francesca Hong. I just don't. I don't know. Like, I'll. We should have her on. Obviously on the right.

Emily Jashinsky

I think we're going to.

Tucker Carlson

Next week.

Krystal Ball

Okay, good. Yeah, I'm on the right, so my perspective is deeply skeptical, but we'll see what happens.

Emily Jashinsky

I was driving through because it's just the DSA thing.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, well, I mean, not just the DSA thing. I probably have more in common with some DSA folks on particular issues than I do with some Republicans on particular issues, but also much more differences. But still, I'm driving through rural Wisconsin. I was driving through rural Wisconsin on Tuesday, and the amount of Trump signs still significant. I drove past one that was like, homemade. Big sign on the highway and it said, King Trump 2028. King Trump 2028.

Emily Jashinsky

I love that. Homemade. Incredible.

Krystal Ball

Because, you know those in LA put it outside your apartment.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, absolutely.

Krystal Ball

It.

Emily Jashinsky

I would get completely evicted. I would have to. I'd have to get Spencer Pratt to protect me on that one.

Pete Hegseth

Who?

Emily Jashinsky

Spencer Pratt. You know, he's like. He's fully. He's fully. He tried to be a little like, MAGA light, but now he's like, full. He's full like maga. How do you. How do you feel about Spencer Pratt right now as a sore loser, but now kind of like social media pundit?

Krystal Ball

I think Spencer Pratt's still really interesting, probably. So Trump. We didn't even mention this earlier in the show, but Trump brought up the Pratt race in his speech last night. And this is where the election stuff is kind of frustrating from my perspective, because it's just indisputably true. I was arguing with some people on my Instagram about this. Indisputably true that you're just in the

Emily Jashinsky

DMS arguing with people.

Krystal Ball

I love that it wasn't the DMs it was in the comment section. But it is indisputably true when you have this pattern where votes come in on election night, Nithya Raman is crying, the margin is massive. And then over the course of the week, week, it changes. Yes, I understand fully the reason that happens.

Emily Jashinsky

Male and black, she cries all the time.

Krystal Ball

Well, that's fair. But I understand fully the reason that happens. It is going to make people think crazy shit's happening in the background no matter what. And I think the same thing is true with the electronic voting machines. They just make people feel weird. And so there are real questions, like if you look across the board, people's trust in institutions obviously is down, but trust in elections is down. And it's not just Republicans. And so I do think there is room for us to come to some solutions about how to do this better. But it makes me so frustrated when Trump, I think, preys on this is what he did in 2020, went in super crazy directions and preyed on people's legitimate concerns about, for example, Mark Zuckerberg coming in, pouring all of this money into Dem areas disproportionately to Republican ones. That's a real thing. That is like an actual billionaire coming in and trying to shift the election in ways that make people uncomfortable, but then you just end up with this silly stuff. But you're actually in la, Griffin. So I'm kind of curious for what your take is on Pratt right now. I think just let me tee this up by saying his new war foundation is.

Emily Jashinsky

Oh, I missed it.

Krystal Ball

Yeah. It's explicitly going to be acting in a journalistic capacity. And my theory of that case is, is smart new media politicians realize, like Mamdani did, that bringing new information to voters. Remember his food kiosk? Actually, it was a food truck video. Right.

Emily Jashinsky

During his campaign, the haloflation.

Krystal Ball

Yes, it was him bringing new information on social media. That's what does well on social media is like I am exposing something. And I think that's what Pratt is like actually kind of doing right now in ways that Dems are not prepared for unless they're Mamdani put killed.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, but the, but the, the thing about Pratt that was like, sort of like confusing and frustrating, like he doesn't really know where he's running. Because I do think that Pratt was probably charismatic and forceful enough to peel off some normie liberals. Like, I. I talked to a few normie liberals who even think that something was like funky with the election or, or what have you, that it was odd that Pratt was up and down. Now in reality, it would be insane for the K, the commie Karen Bass to rig the polls. Karen Basura, for her to rig the polls so that Nithya, who's much more likely to beat her in a one on one than Pratt, like, she, what, she wanted Pratt to be in the top two with her. So it would be insane for her to rig the election to knock out Pratt from the top two generals. So it just doesn't make sense on a, on a stolen election strategy.

Krystal Ball

Well, unless it was a Nithya thing, that's, that would be his rebuttal. I'm not saying it was obvious, right? You can see where people would be

Emily Jashinsky

like, nithya can't tie her shoes. She can't even cut a video. She's going to steal the elections. I mean, I'm sorry. Like, like that's also, you know, I think complimenting Nithya a little too much, but with the, with the Pratt thing, it's like he, he did have a shot at it, but in the last two weeks before the election, he's like, in New York City, he's going on Gutfeld and Fox News.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, what a stake.

Emily Jashinsky

Like he should have been going on Pod Save America. He should be talking to fucking Alana Glazer. He should be trying to talk to Amy Poehler, you know, about whatever, whatever the fuck happens on the Amy Poehler podcast. But I mean, maybe that, maybe they wouldn't have let him on. I think Pod Save would have let him on. So I just think it's, it was a total mistake strategically for him in how he played it. So I kind of, I lost a little respect that I had for him. And, and, and I'm like, where's the reality show? I want the reality show now. I guess. But, but you think he's going to be doing sort of a vertical new media thing where he just like whines and complains? Because I don't think there's any political future for him in California, especially as he seems to post loss, be kind of pulling off the mask and even being more clearly right wing than before.

Krystal Ball

So that's a good point. That if he's going to go full maga, he becomes less viable in California because he was insistent during the election that he was running as an independent. He's registered Republican, but he's running as an independent. Running as an independent. And there are a lot of voters in Cal. Like, if you go inland in California, it gets much redder pretty quickly than like It's. There's less people, obviously, but it does change, and it's just a kind of different state the further inland you go versus the coast. So there's something there. I mean, there's something there for a person who does a good job at, like, meeting the moment, as I think Pratt did during the election. But to your point, if that's the trajectory long term, it probably does make him less viable. On the other hand, I do think if he starts going back to. Back to the roots of the Pratt campaign several months ago, where he's like, going into Skid Row and being like, why is this getting bigger? What are they doing to dogs? That stuff can be powerful, but if it's combined with full maga, it's certainly not going to be viable. I think that's right, Griffin.

Emily Jashinsky

We do need to save the Skid Row dogs. That's actually how I first experienced the Pratt campaign, is I was helping volunteering at Skid Row and I had no idea that all the people at Skid Row were like, were like rhinoids, because we were talking about the dogs and they're like. And that's why we need Spencer Pratt. I was like, oh, what? Really?

Krystal Ball

You were, you were out there harvesting ballots for Nithya Raman and Skid Row.

Emily Jashinsky

I was, I was, I was, I was, I was taking a hit off the crack pipe. I was signing people up. It was incredible.

Krystal Ball

But were you out there helping puppies? Because you do.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah. I mean, it is, it is terrible down there. And when I tell people about it, they treat me like I'm a crazy FOX News. ALEX JONES HOST When I talk about the horrible things that happened down there, but they are really happening. And that was Pratt's. That was like Pratt's power, in a sense, to, to talk about some of the things that we. That are happening, that are real and you know, that. That the city in certain ways is falling apart. So that was power.

Krystal Ball

The group that's mostly responsible, at least from an outside, like, organization perspective, nonprofit perspective, for pushing and gain a function, research and undermine the credibility of Anthony Fauci is called White Coast Coat waste. And it's. We've had them on the show before. It's like, involves people who used to be with PETA and said, we think we can get Republican voters to support ending animal testing, even if they don't have like a super moral, PETA style ethical objection to it because it's like wasteful government spending. But during the pandemic, they used that and actually had like a Major priority on the Beagles accomplished. Because they said, we're gonna work with Republicans. And now you see a lot of Republicans like Nancy Mace and others being like, actually, this is terrible. Like, they. They worked with the Maha movement, and sometimes you can get done that way.

Emily Jashinsky

Why do conservatives own the animal issue? That. Why do you think that is?

Pete Hegseth

They. They. They.

Emily Jashinsky

Like, that's new. Is that new? They seem to be, like, ahead of the game on that. Like, obviously, it's totally new. There was that. There was that beagle rescue. That was not political. It wasn't like a rightoid thing. But. But I do see, like, the conservative. Is it because it's, like, an easy moral issue for them to talk about when they feel like they don't have a lot of other moral issues to stand on? I don't know where it's coming from, but it does seem like they care a little bit about. More about dogs than homeless people and their rights and experiences on the streets. But I'll take what I can get as a dog lover, I guess.

Krystal Ball

I don't know. I thought it was interesting how Pratt was pretty. He did a good job of breaking the Republican. What's the best way to put it? We've now spent so much time on Spencer Pratt, but, like, he did do a good job. But he did a good job of not falling into the trap of how Republicans typically talk about homeless populations and addicts on the streets. Like, he did a pretty good job, I think, of framing it as, like, this isn't good for anybody, including them. And the dogs were like a gateway drug to that point. I feel like, where you just say, like, nobody is thriving in this situation. But, yeah, your point about how it's an easy moral victory is. Is well taken.

Emily Jashinsky

So let's get away from Pratt for a second. I'm sure he'll be rearing his head again in future AMAs. This is from. This person doesn't have a name, just called subscriber. Would you call Jeremy Scahill's session with Ro Khanna an interview or an inquisition? For what it's worth, it sure felt like an inquisition to me. I thought it was horrible. Emily, you've seen the clip Lips.

Krystal Ball

Well, Taibi wrote a post yesterday.

Emily Jashinsky

Let's go.

Krystal Ball

Laying into Ryan and Jeremy. He criticized Ryan for petting his dog during the interview. But that was Ryan's cat, I believe, not Ryan's dog, but that was the crit.

Emily Jashinsky

That was a criticism.

Krystal Ball

Yeah, he was really critical. He was really critical of Jeremy for being. I think he would probably say performative and not looking to get a real answer out of Roe, but just looking to make a point and make an argument more than elicit an answer. I actually disagree with that. My take on it is that Jeremy comes from a position where he genuinely believes what he's saying and his frustration with roe. I'm very curious what you make of this, Griffin. His frustration with Ro Khanna is that he's come out here and positioned himself as a champion of the Palestinian cause. But from Jeremy's perspective, as somebody who's been like, in those trenches for a long time, he's saying nobody is going to push Ro Khanna to be consistent. And I agree more with Roe on his position than I agree with Jeremy's position. But I actually thought that was a fairly courageous line of questioning, and I thought he was trying to get a real answer out of Ro Khanna about whether the, quote, armed resistance of Hamas had any legitimate military or, or could make any claim to legitimate military action on October 7th. Now, obviously that was a terrorist attack. Jeremy was saying that it started as an attack on military institutions. Seems to me like it was a planned terrorist attack. But I thought from Jeremy's perspective, he was pushing Khanna to be consistent, and I do think he was trying to get him to say yes or no, genuinely. So I totally disagreed. I thought it was. If you're, if you're, if you have Jeremy's worldview and you're looking at Ro Khanna become the sort of champion of the Palestinian cause in the American Congress, then asking whether there is any legitimate room for an armed resistance against the Israeli government seems like a legitimate line of questioning, if that's your worldview. So I totally agree. Disagreed with the criticisms of it. I don't know. But I'm curious what, what you thought.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, I guess if, if, if Roe was like, well, you can attack the military bases, but then when you attack the, the music festival or whatever, that's when it becomes a terrorist attack or something. I do think it's interesting that for the last two years, the litmus test has been, is it a genocide? Which Ronna has, has said. But now, now we're, we're going to go to. Was 10-7-justified, which I think is very interesting. And really, you know, what, what, whether he was justifying the, the October 7th, you know, Al Qassam flood against the military bases, taking down the fences and what have you to.

Krystal Ball

Well, that narrowly. And this is where I think it was. Like, I would argue about this with Jeremy, but like I think he was saying, is there. He was using that example of, from his perspective, the early attacks being on military targets, and he was just narrowing it down to that and trying to say, is that acceptable at any level whatsoever? And I thought that, like, seeing Ro's answer was genuinely valuable. And even Jeremy's critics seem to have thought it was valuable because they've used it to explain how Ro, from their perspective, his worldview falls apart when pressed on that particular question. Now, I don't agree with that, but he wasn't saying, like, do you justify attacks on the music festival? He was saying, is there any legitimate military? Like, I don't know. I think he was using an example to make that point.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah. Which I think, of course, which I think of course there is. If you're, if you're being occupied by a foreign power, I think these are actual, like laws, like laws of war, that you are allowed to engage in military actions against an occupying force, an illegal occupying force. What would you say to that?

Krystal Ball

I was thinking about this over the course of the week, and I think that's part of what the problem is for Palestinians who are in Gaza and want, want the, or want a solution to the problem. It's like your option right now is Hamas, which is terroristic, and you don't have like sort of a. What's the best way to put it? Non terroristic. More legitimate representation.

Emily Jashinsky

Sure. I mean, and it was said in the, and it was said in the interview. Oh, more Rose said, I'm more Dr. King than Malcolm X or what have you. But.

Krystal Ball

Well, I, I mean, they tried the

Emily Jashinsky

Dr. King route and you know, they did the March of Return. They all got shot in the kneecap. That's also mentioned in the interview. That's what you said.

Krystal Ball

Yeah.

Emily Jashinsky

So at what point, at what point then do you have you exhausted all options or what have you? I mean, I think Roe's been really brave, braver than most Democrats on this. And I also respect that Roe is willing to just kind of sit there and like, you know, duke it out and fight it out. I think, like, most politicians are not going to do that. And, and I think that they, that they should because, you know, regardless of Ro's answer, you, you, you. There's some respect there, right? To, to, to go through that interview. And I also, I guess, like, because I don't have anything super smart to say, I wanted to, I wanted to mention what Ryan kind of said in the Post interview. Once Roe was gone, he made this comment about Lincoln, that when Lincoln was when, when Lincoln was running, when Lincoln was president. He was never saying the things that the abolitionists would say. Sort of the most far left abolitionists, things that every, I think American today would feel like is the normal, base reality that segregation is wrong, you know, that, that we need racial justice.

Krystal Ball

He wasn't saying burn the Constitution, go fool John Brown, you know.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't saying any of that stuff, but he was, you know, behind the scenes working with, you know, abolitionists and organizers and all that stuff to create a coalition that included the most far left abolitionists and more of the, at the time, more of the kind of the weaker liberal positions on this. And so I thought that was an interesting point too. And I do think that is, that is somewhere where Roe can kind of flip it.

Krystal Ball

Well, yeah, and he does come from the tradition, like he had mentioned of Gandhi, like his grandfather, I believe, was an associate of Gandhi. And that's where I come down too. I think it's part of the problem with the IDF is that you end up justifying mass civilian deaths for a particular goal and you're going in a really bad direction. And that is obviously, obviously a massive problem if you are genuinely trying to justify October 7th or any other terror, terrorist activities from Hamas. And it sucks if you're a Palestinian who doesn't want to see that happening to Israeli civilians either. And you're in this position where like basically between a rock and a hard place. It's something, of course, that every political movement has dealt with. The point about Malcolm X, the point about, I mean, think about like the anti abortion movement, which I consider myself a part of. They historically, in the last 30 years have dealt with this question. It's not really something people talk about now, but you know, they were saying, if you genuinely believe that thousands of babies are being slaughtered every single day, then that's why people were saying, well, let's go ahead and firebomb abortion clinics. Not good. It's not good. It's not the right answer. But it's not unique to one political movement or another. The question of what justifies the protection of human life is a real one.

Emily Jashinsky

Yes. So I think we've come down on it was an inquisition, but a just inquisition by Jeremy Scahill.

Krystal Ball

It was an inquisition.

Emily Jashinsky

Not all inquisitions are bad. They're not all made the same. All right, let's do one last one. Now this is an amalgamation of multiple, multiple comments here. So everyone's asking about Eric. So we had an interview with Donovan McKinney, who's running for Congress in. In Michigan. Jake Mogul asks, will we be getting more from the Wednesday host? Eric loved his style and how he really stepped up for the team covering Emily's family emergency and Ryan being a no show. Yes. So I'll give a little bit behind the scenes here. When we bring people in remotely, they are on a zoom call. And the zoom window had Eric at the bottom under Ryan because Eric is our studio manager that runs the control. So Eric's name was on the zoom call, which confused Donovan and made him think that that is confusing, was Eric. So it's not Donovan's fault. It is my fault. That has now been changed. It now just says breaking points. But.

Krystal Ball

And by the way, that doesn't mean he's not a real breaking points fan. Because if that happens and you're maybe nervous and you're doing a media hit and you want to make sure you get it right in your mind in those high pressure moments, it can go to weird places. Like, you can suddenly be like, oh, okay, so I'll just. I'll do what's on the screen. Or like, am I wrong? Like, I. You feel like you're being gaslit. You're like, it says Eric. I know that's Ryan, but it says Eric.

Emily Jashinsky

Yeah, he's a big Ryan fan. So I think, I think that was. That was. That was my fault. But then it. Ryan. I told Ryan after. You got to correct him. At some point you got to say something. And I say, and we, we told Ryan after the interview, and he goes, oh, really? He didn't even notice. So if Ryan didn't notice, then, you

Krystal Ball

know, I think, okay, so this is actually more funny behind the scenes because. So I was back in Wisconsin from my grandfather's funeral, and travel got super messed up because it was in the middle of, like, basically nowhere. And so we're scrambling to make this happen, which is why I was coming to everybody from the Milwaukee airport. But I'm getting the show messages as I'm going through security, and I'm getting random notes from Griffin saying, like, no, we need to end this before there's another Eric. Correct him. I'm like, what the fuck is happening?

Emily Jashinsky

We've reached the maximum amount of Eric. We're still. We're gonna.

Krystal Ball

Or.

Emily Jashinsky

That's awesome. And finally, we'll end with a really fun one from Benjamin Krebs. Ryan, can you address allegations you're distantly related to the Gilgo Beach Killer? Rex Heuerman, you look eerily similar I'm going to throw this up on screen. This does not look like Ryan.

Krystal Ball

No, it does not. But people think that Ryan looks like Tate Reeves, who I could say does look a little bit like the. The Gilgo beach killer. This is so Ryan. Yeah. Put this up. Ryan owns this. He posts this on X all the time. I think it's an unflattering comparison because I don't think it's. I think Ryan's got some real riz on Tate Reeves, but Ryan owns this comparison. I think it's the hair and the glasses when Ryan was doing Rising did look like this. Yeah. The hair and makeup woman at Rising when we were co hosting there definitely gave Ryan the Tate Reeves.

Emily Jashinsky

Wow. Well, for lit, for audio only listeners, Tate Reeves looks like if Ryan was not on Ozempic and high T, this is a low T. This is of Ryan.

Krystal Ball

He's the Republican. Was the Republican governor of Mississippi, so.

Emily Jashinsky

All right, well, I think on that note, that's going to do it for us on this Friday show. It was a Griffin and Emily show. We really. We barely made it, but we did. We are here and I think we did okay.

Krystal Ball

I thought we did okay. I'd give us a five out of ten. I thought we. I was going to suggest we do a review of the new Army Hammer film, Citizen Vigilante.

Emily Jashinsky

Oh, we. We should. An ooey bowl flick. So look, look forward to that potentially as a weekend clip sometime. Have you seen those clips? They're terrible.

Krystal Ball

They're so bad. Oh, my gosh, they're so bad.

Emily Jashinsky

The funniest part, part of all of it is that Armie Hammer says he cried when watching the footage. It's like, bro, like, how are you surprised you shot the footage. You're the one.

Krystal Ball

I didn't cover this on after party. I was all over that leak to PAC news from Army.

Emily Jashinsky

Get me back on after party.

Krystal Ball

Cried such.

Emily Jashinsky

Get me back on after party. We got to talk about it. All right, guys, everyone enjoy your weekend and we'll see you back on Monday with a far more traditional breaking points program. And we'll see you all later. Bye. Bye. We learned how to love dogs from the dogs that loved us and waited for us to get home from school. They were the dogs that raised us. We returned the love with Pedigree dog food. It was good then and it's better now. Every bowl has 100% complete nutrition. So supporting six health essentials. And now it includes vitamin good bites, a nutrient boost your dog will love. Pedigree Good then better now. Big transfer news today. Who's moving me to the couch with Domino's? Best deal ever since they just added stuffed crust.

Krystal Ball

Any pizza, any toppings?

Emily Jashinsky

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Krystal Ball

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