A

I really did expect us to win that. I wondered how I would feel. I wondered if I would feel like, oh, this is a mountaintop. Like, what? I mean, how have I been missing out on this for 33 years as I've been coaching? But I hoped, though I wasn't sure, that I would still think, you know what, the journey was actually better than this. The journey, the day to day, the relationships, the conversations, the locker room, the growth steps, the struggle together was better than the mountaintop moment. And I can honestly say that the journey was better.

B

Hey, this is Jason Garrett. And joining us today on Coach to Coach is the reigning national champion of women's basketball, the head basketball coach at ucla, Corey Close. Thanks so much for being on with us.

A

Oh, thank you. I appreciate. I'm just distracted by that really good bottle of wine behind you. I'm just wondering what. What. How's that. How's that work back there? But. Well, thanks so much for having me.

B

Well, part of the deal of being on the show is you get a bottle of wine, so we're going to send one out to you. All right? All right.

A

That sounds perfect to me. Done and done.

B

How about that? Good. Hey, I was. I was struck by Dawn Staley's comments after you guys won the national championship. You dominated them. One of the great programs. She's one of the great coaches. And the humility that she had in talking about you and your greatness as a person, as a coach and your impact on college basketball, just tell me how that made you feel.

A

I have so much respect for Don, and I just. It's not when you see the quality of someone's character when they're on the mountaintop, it's the quality of her character just shines. Even in the hard seasons and after a national championship loss, for her to then, you know, turn that in and compliment me, I think it spoke way more about her than it did about me. And I just. That's why I'm really thankful that she's a leader in our game, because she doesn't lead with this. Hey, let's put the spotlight on me. She doesn't lead with how are we able to, you know, make things better for South Carolina? She leads with lifting quality people up. She leads with character. And then she also leads with, you know, making sure that she grows the game.

B

You know, it was so genuine. And all those great things you just said about her is essentially what she was saying about you. And it was. It was you as a coach, you as a person, but you as Someone who has made basketball better, women's basketball, and basketball in general. And I wonder if that's something that is first and foremost in your mind as you go about your job each and every day.

A

Well, it's humbling. Even as you say those words. It lands in my heart in a special way because of the example I had in coach John Wooden, who invested in me and mentored me. You know, that's what everybody said about him was, you know, that it wasn't about the 10 championships that he won. It was about the impact on people's hearts. And, you know, I tell this story all the time, but one of the times I was with him, he said, remember, Corey, you're not coaching people's jump shots, you're coaching people's hearts. But if you coach their hearts really well, usually their jump shots end up pretty good, too. And so, you know, I hope that I am perfectly. I do not have it all together. I really, you know, it's a struggle every day to make sure I have alignment with my words and hopefully my actions. But I'm a big believer is that no impact is going to happen through you unless it happens in you first. And so I, I want to be that kind of leader that is constantly saying, hey, how do I grow here? What's getting exposed here? How do my players see me doing work that's, you know, that I asked them to do with my words? How do they see that being lived out in my actions?

B

Wow. You know, we used to always talk about coach the man first. And, you know, in, in pro football, a lot of times people think that, hey, these guys are grown men, you know, they got it all figured out. And, you know, my comment was, hell, we don't have it all figured out. You know, and to think that some 21 year old coming to the National Football League has it all figured out. The biggest part of our job is to make sure we're coaching the man first. The mentality first, the mindset first, and then all of the other coaching can find a place to land. Is that how you see it?

A

Absolutely. And it's interesting as you talk. I've become good friends with Sean McVay and he's been so great to me. But when I'm around his locker room and when I'm around what's going on in that organization, I'm struck with exactly that, Jason. That they're never too old to feel like they're growing from the inside out. That, you know, when. When it's time to learn how to Block and tackle, so to speak, it's going to land a whole lot better from somebody who feels invested in. And, you know, I think it's whether it's 18 to 23 year olds in college, whether it's, you know, people in the National Football League or whether it's just our day to day lives that, you know, I think that we, we respond to people who see us from the inside out and in a transformational way, not a transactional way. And so I think that's really what my foundational approach is, that this is not about me. What's the purpose driven life? The very first line in the book is it's not about you. And I think if young people or even just athletes, if they feel like you really care and it's not about you, it's not about getting anything in return, I do believe they'll respond.

B

It's interesting you say that on the heels of this, this amazing season you had, because oftentimes it's easy when you get to that place, when people like Dawn Staley make these amazing comments and you're 37 and 1 and holding the trophy over your head, sometimes you can say, you know, it is about, it is a little bit about me. Maybe you don't say it out loud, but you feel that. But, but it's so genuine inside of you that it's not. And that you have this, the servant

A

leadership, I hope, I mean, believe me, I have days where I don't choose wisely. I have days where I get to the end of my day and I go, I missed the boat on that one. And I always say one of the things I've learned as a leader is how to ask for forgiveness. Because to truly, humbly ask for forgiveness. But I just think that I was wondering, Jason, when that happens and I really did expect us to win that I wondered how I would feel. I wondered if I would feel like, oh, this is a mountaintop. Like what? I mean, how have I been missing out on this for, you know, 33 years as I've been coaching. But I hoped, though I wasn't sure that I would still think, you know, what the journey was actually better than this. The journey, the day to day, the relationships, the conversations, the locker room, the gross steps, the struggle together was better than the mountaintop moment. And I can honestly say that the journey was better.

B

Yeah, you know, I was fortunate to be a bit player on some super bowl championship teams. And you know, to this day, and this is, this is 30 plus years ago to this day, the memories you have are about putting your hand on the line and running together, doing one tension, you know, lifting, going through two a days and 100 degree heat. And those are the things that allow the bonds to form for the rest of your lives. That's the stuff that connects you.

A

Yeah, yeah. It's everything, right? I mean, and, but it's interesting, you know, in the public eye, it's about your next pro contract, nil in MySpace or. I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it gets all mixed up. It's, it's. We say in college basketball, the average Division 1 basketball player spends over 3,500 hours in their sport over four years, but only 4% of those hours are in games. 4%. So there's not a parent, a pastor, a professor, anybody who's going to spend more time with them than I will or we will together. And I'm like, if we only use it for trophies and rings, how empty is that? And so I just am such a huge believer that, that the only things that last forever from the time we get to spend is who they become and who they impact, and they get to keep those things forever. And so I don't want to invest in things that aren't going to last. I've sacrificed too much. You know, I've been coaching for 33 years. I've been essence. Sometimes I don't have a family of my own. This is actually my family in a lot of ways. And if I'm investing in things that don't last, what, why, why did I do all that? So I really am a big believer that if it's not about who they're becoming and who they're impacting and them feeling great about that, then it's not worth it.

B

Well, your players are lucky to have you. To have someone such a significant figure in their lives who has that approach, it's pretty amazing. You know your reference, Coach Wooden earlier and just that idea of. I love that image of Tuesdays with Coach Wooden and you going over there and bringing Baskin Robbins and hanging out, talking about, I'm sure a lot about basketball, but I'm sure probably a lot more about life. Can you take us into, can you take us into one of those meetings? You would have.

A

It is so funny. I would go over there and Tuesdays with coach was just like this sacred ground, you know, a sacred time. And honestly, it was probably 5% about basketball. I mean, it really just was about being with him and hearing what, what, what he's excited About. From his great grandkids and grandkids and, you know, his lemon custard or strawberry ice cream. He was very particular about which ones I. Which ones were his favorites. But, you know, I just. Every time I would leave and it was before the, you know, your AI note takers and things like that, I'm like, oh, my gosh, did I treasure everything? Did I get everything down that he said? Because the wisdom was just flowing out of him, the nuggets that would come. But mostly it's just a friendship. You know, by the end of it, you know, there's a few of us. Annie Myers and, you know, Ms. Val Kondo Fields, who, you know, Sue Enquist, that called him Papa. And I'm always thankful to his family, who shared him with so many others so graciously. But it was this time, I think about getting back in my car after we were done, and I'm like, how. How did I get to do this? This is just incredible. And his impact on my life, it's. It's just incredible. I had. I lost my dad five years ago, and I just pictured. I wondered, hey, I wonder if they're up there in heaven watching this and, you know, wanting to make them both proud because, you know, I'm so fortunate to have been mentored by somebody like him.

B

Yeah. When I first became the head coach of the Cowboys, a guy named Calvin Hill, Grant Hill's dad, is a good friend and worked for the Cowboys, and he said, hey, you need to go see Coach K down at Duke. And I said. I said, don't ask me twice on that one. I'll go tonight. And so he arranged it. And a few weeks later, I went down there and I spent the entire weekend with him. My wife and I went down, but he allowed me to be in every meeting, every shoot around every meal, whatever. And we've developed a great friendship since then. But I can remember going back to the hotel at late, because he worked late, and just getting a notebook out and writing and writing and writing and writing and writing. And. I mean, I filled up notebooks just trying to remember everything that he said. Oh, and again, it's about basketball, but it's about life and building teams and leadership and interacting with people and all these things that make such an impact. And I was like, you. I'd walk out, say, I'm getting a chance to hang out with this guy. This is unbelievable. And to develop that kind of friendship, it's invaluable, right?

A

Well. And it's so interesting. We're in this day and age where it's these mega contracts and these outside things and social media Personas and building your brand and you can see it in your eyes and I can feel it as I talk, that it just melts you when you're around people of character that really care and that, you know, you're doing something that really matters, you're learning about something that really matters. And I just, you know, basketball or football or sports really, in general, I still believe are the best training ground we have for citizens in our country right now. And I don't know if there's been a time we've needed it more, where to hold on to things like that. Because, I mean, you have been such an incredibly successful football coach. I've watched you from afar. I'm a football fan. But I bet all of those things pale in comparison to the moments, the leadership, the relationships. And I just hope we as a society hold on to that. And we really treasure what sports can bring. And not as much from the entertainment avenue, but from the character development avenue and preparatory life skills avenue. That's why we got to hold on tight.

B

Yeah, no doubt. Well said. You know, I wonder, you know, as a kid, I can remember memorizing all the incredible phrases of Coach Wooden, you know, of the pyramid of success and, you know, make each day your masterpiece, and all the things, you know, I'm wondering, when you're in a conversation eating lemon custard from Baskin Robbins with him, I'm wondering if he speaks, you know, in those maxims, do they. Do they come out just naturally or is it more of a regular conversation?

A

Well, it's more of a regular conversation, but it just flows as a part of it, you know, and you. And you just all of a sudden go, wow, that was amazing. You know, like, I remember I took. I used to coach at Florida State, and I took the recruiting coordinator, John Lilly, and my other assistant coach, Lance White, to go meet him, and these are two of the best recruiters in the country. But I warned them. I said, john, I said, lance, write down things you want to ask coach. And. And they're like, guys, I could talk to a wall. I'm a football recruiter. I, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I said, I'm just telling you, you're going to get there and you're going to be awestruck, and you're going to just. You're not going to know what to say. And they're like, you don't know me well enough, Corey, blah, blah. And we get out there. And sure enough, the first three hours we were in his living room, they said nothing. And I just was like, okay, guys, this is absolutely ridiculous. And I just was, like, sitting there with them, and I was, like, looking at him, like, speak up, you know, But I just led the conversation. And then we finally got him to go to lunch with us. And we were going, and Lance is like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. He goes, it's just there was so much wisdom coming and spewing out of him. I couldn't think about what I was going to have to say next. And so that's really what it is. But the maxims, I mean, I use them all the time to my players chagrin. But I just, you know, I was talking to our team the other day. We've adopted this Tijuana girls home where these women that have been rescued from abusive situations, and we drive down there as a team about once a quarter, and we have our new transfers and our new players in, and they went on Saturday. And I said, you know, Coach Wooden used to say, you can't have a perfect day without doing something for somebody else with no expectation of anything in return. And I would say, I said to them, you created a pretty cool perfect day today. And, you know, they. It just comes out, you know, all these ways in which he. He would be quick, but don't hurry, you know, like the. Just everything just comes out over and over again.

B

Yeah. You know, it's amazing that you're doing that. And clearly his legacy has had a huge impact on you, both on and off, off the court. And your impact is really strong. It's so much fun here. And hearing you talk about it, you know, I'd like to go back a little bit. I know your dad was. It was a huge influence on you, you know, college football player and then a coach for a long time. Can you talk about, you know, growing up in your household with your mom and your dad and your sisters and their impact?

A

Wow. You've done your homework, Jason. Well done. I. I'm not sure anybody's ever asked me. I've gone in that depth and known before I got on a call, so credit to you and your team. I, you know, my dad and mom, you know, I have three core values at ucla. To be people of gratitude, to be lifestyle givers, and to have a growth mindset. And that is a direct correlation to the home I grew up in. You know, we. We just have an open home. My parents believe that our home was Something what needed to be a refuge, not just for our family, but for anybody we could serve. And I remember my dad really loved his sleep. Like, you did not wake him up, like it was. That was one of his treasured things. But he would get called frequently in the middle of the night, you know, drive a kid home, you know, but what needed to happen, Go bail someone out of jail, whatever it was. And one time I asked them, dad, you get so mad at, you know, Amity and I when we wake you up, but when something like this happens, you just, you know, get up, you go cheerfully, and you go and do whatever needs to be done. And he said, it's the greatest honor to be invited in to somebody else's greatest time of need. And he just lived that way. And my parents lived that way. They. They met through an organization called Young Life that really invests in high school and in junior high kids. And the whole point of Young Life is going to where the kids are, meeting them right where they are and serving them where they are. And that's really how they ran our home. And I have an older adopted sister in Adele that came from that situation. She had seven siblings, biological siblings, and they got involved in my parents Young Life Club. And three of the siblings lived with us for a few years. But Adele stayed forever and has, you know, been my older sister from when I was a kid, you know, so I just think my parents really understood what true community was. And my. My dad specifically really understood the important impact on sports on your character. And he would always. He was a very competitive guy, you know, played Division 3 football, as you referenced, at Wheaton College and won their only national championship there. So don't get it twisted. He's. He wanted you to be your best work ethic. And competitiveness was a very high value, but never at the expense of character and growth. And so I really don't know any other way. And I really am thankful to have grown up in a home that truly lived that. My parents lived a life, poured out, and I just want to do the same.

B

Yeah, clearly that transition has happened because you're carrying the torch for them and for those values. Did you always love basketball right from the start?

A

Actually, no. I was actually. My first love was soccer or right now in the World cup football, but I actually played everything. I was the only girl in my neighborhood. So whether it was, you know, touch football on the street or whether. Whatever it was, but soccer was probably the thing I was most clued into. But at that time, Jason, there was not very many scholarships available in soccer. There was the most amount of scholarships in basketball. And my family probably couldn't have afforded to send me to college without a scholarship. And so I went the basketball route mostly out of necessity. I love them both, but I thought that basketball was my ability to get my education paid for, and I guess it worked out the way it needed to.

B

You played at UC Santa Barbara. Can you talk about the impact of that? You know, four year starter, one of their best players, you know, just that whole experience and how much you grew during that time?

A

I think two things out of my experience at UC Santa Barbara. One is I learned to be a builder there. Before I got there, they were, oh, and it wasn't me. There was a class before me that really started the ball rolling. But Mark French was the head coach and he was. I was a part of his second recruiting class, but before he took over, they were 0 and 18 in the big West. And at that time, there wasn't Power four or Power five conferences, there was just Division one. And so. And he, he was like, we were really. The Big west was really amazing. Long Beach State had won the national championship. It was just a different era in how Division 1 sports were run. But he taught me how to have vision and be a builder because he built that program and I got to be a part of that, which was just an incredible honor. And then the second thing I learned from being at under Mark French is, is he was really big on habits of Excellence, Stephen, the Covey principles. And he would be in the middle of practice and be like, hey, I understand you were up all night studying for a final, but you're gonna be, you know, a doctor, a lawyer, and you're gonna be up all night with one of your kids, and how are you gonna learn to be excellent even when things are hard? And he just would always talk about the habits of excellence. And I mean, you can hear it from me, is that this is 33 years later and I can recite it like it was yesterday. And so I would say that I learned how to build vision and to be a builder. And then I learned how to truly make basketball a life equipping tool from Mark French at UC Santa Barbara. And then I got to go back and coach under him for nine years as well. And I just am really thankful to have been influenced by a great man first and great coach second.

B

You know, it's so interesting as you talk, I mean, these influencers are so impactful on you. And, and like you said, I mean you can just recite so many of the things that they shared with you. A number of years ago, one thing that struck me was a quote that I read about your dad saying, you know, it's less about building a team and more about building a program. And then it sounds like Mark French had a similar idea. There were those some big takeaways when you became a head coach.

A

Absolutely. And you know, UCLA is my first head coaching job. I was an assistant coach for 18 years. And, you know, this is. You had a lot of growing to do. I made a lot of mistakes, but the one thing I was very clear on when I got my first opportunity is that building a team was just not an option. It was. It's too shallow, it's too short lived. I just didn't believe in it. So if I was going to give all this time and I was going to really invest in something that I believed in and building a program. And then I remember I read a book by Andy Stanley talking about making vision stick. And he was talking about, in his world, it was leading a church. And. But he would say, I lived in Atlanta, you need another church on a corner. Like you need, you know, a hole in the head. Right. You don't. There's just so many things, you don't need that. But he said, what, what am I uniquely designed to lead? How am I uniquely designed to lead? What are we. What is the problem that I'm uniquely designed to attack or to solve? And he talked about being a church that unchurched people love to attend. And that was his, you know, and I. And again, here I am 15 years later reciting that. And so I knew that I wanted to be, you know, somebody who did it differently. And I was really. I came across Tony Dungy's book, Uncommon, and he started talking about his college coach at the University of Minnesota and the Uncommon program that he, he built. And that really became my mantra of Uncommon, that we wanted uncommon women willing to make uncommon choices, yielding an uncommon result. And, and we wanted to teach, mentor, and equip for life beyond ucla. And that just became what I wanted to do. And doing anything less than that just felt so empty. And I had this amazing experience this spring, Jason. I was speaking at the training camp with John Gordon, and I get onto the shuttle to go to the event and who am I getting to sit next to Tony Dungy? And I got to tell him for the first time the depth of that impact. It gets me choked up just thinking about it. But he, he just, it was so impactful to me, but I just didn't want to be a coach that accumulated trophies or rings or whatever else. I just knew that was not me. And I wanted to build a program that you were going to hear about for years. The way I heard Coach Wooden's alums get back to him. And he would say, I don't care how many points they scored or how much they won, but I care a lot when they say I'm a better father because of me being in that program. I care a lot when they say I'm more productive citizen because I played for you, Coach. And I had this really powerful story my fourth day on the job from one of Coach Wooden's alumni, John Vallee. And he just walked in and he said, I've been married 38 years because of what Coach Wooden taught me. I started three successful businesses because of what Coach Wooden taught me. I conquered cancer three times because of the strength Coach Wooden gave me. And then he said, I survived the death of my 12 year old daughter Erin because of the way coach wouldn't love me. And then he walks out the door and says, I'll see you dribble for the cure. Welcome back to ucla. And I was like, who is this guy? And I ran over to the computer and I looked him up and he was the starting guard on two of Coach Wooden's national championship teams. And he played seven years in the NBA. But he didn't mention either because it paled in comparison to the man he became. And so I just said, how many John Vallee uncommon John Vallee stories can we create? And that was. That's been the quest ever since.

B

Wow. You know, I literally have the hair on the back of my neck is. I mean, it's amazing listening to you talk. And that's really what the coaches missions are in life, right? When you pull back, it's the impact they make on people. And you're clearly doing that. I had the great fortune of working with Coach Dungee for a few years at NBC. And you know, I tried in his presence as much as I could just to be quiet and prompt him to talk, which is hard to do because he's such a humble guy, but. But he has such amazing stories and such great wisdom and. And like you said, he lives it. He lives it, you know, the integrity that he has and how his words match his actions, you know, really like none other. And he's certainly a gift, a gift to humanity into coaching. And it's been so much fun to be around him.

A

Absolutely.

B

Yeah. That's, that's great stuff. And, and, and you know, I think about, I think about what you're doing there. Like I said, you win the national championship, you've built one of the best programs in college sports. You know, your record over the last four years is, I don't know, 125 and 21, something ridiculous. So to take this approach, this process oriented approach, this approach of trying to help everyone be better in their life and then still have the results

A

to

B

back it up, it's pretty amazing. Do you see a correlation between the two? The success you have with your mission and then how they perform on the court?

A

Yeah, I hope so. You know, I ask kids all the time, like if you feel challenged, poured into, if you feel, you know, that you are really proud of who you're becoming, do you think you're going to play better or worse? You know, and, and you know, because sometimes I get a reputation like, oh, she's just this fluffy kind of kumbaya coach, you know, whatever else. And it couldn't be further from the truth. But sometimes in recruiting perception is reality. And so, you know, I just say to them, look, I'm as competitive as you're ever going to find. But I just believe a competitive greatness, outcomes or results will find you when you are present and committed to a championship. Like, everybody has the same goals. Everybody wants to win a national championship, everybody wants to be an All American. Everybody wants to make the WNBA in my world. But you know, it's your commitments, not your feelings that will lead you to your destiny. It's that process. And that's probably my proudest moment from this or not moment, but from this championship year is to watch the women choose to sacrifice individually for the sake of the team on a very consistent basis and then have it come back to them tenfold. To have all of them all, all six players drafted, five in the first round, that's never been done. And because now it allows me to go into these recruits homes and say, look, you know, our process works, but you have to stay. Commitment to that was a byproduct. That's not what we led with. That, that, that just legitimate legitimizes what the process is. And even with the parents, I just have really tried to challenge the parents, the agents, like, look, this is my process. It isn't for everybody, but you've got to be okay with how I go about doing this, otherwise it's not going to work. And two years ago we actually really struggled with alignment in that area. And I had six players leave my program, and it was devastating to me. It really. It rocked me. And then to watch this year, the parents, even I had quarterly zooms with them and said, look, we've all got to be sacrificing, and we can't have any distractions, and we have to be able to shut out some of these outside noise that they don't know. And if you ever want to come to practice for a whole week, you can do it. But if you're not willing to do that, you really can't have an opinion. And so that was really a hard battle. But when we were at the draft and with every single name that was called, the dads and the brothers jumped into this mosh pit, and I just had tears in my eyes because that was a significant change of what it was a year ago. And it just is a great life lesson, right? When you truly serve, when you truly give up something and do something for the bigger, the greater good and something bigger than yourself, it comes back to you tenfold. And it was just a vivid reminder that that's really worth it.

B

You know, I was fortunate to play for Coach Johnson on a couple of those super bowl teams in the 90s, and if I heard him say it once, I heard him say it a thousand times. When we win, there'll be spoils for everybody, you know, so put your personal agenda aside. How many yards you have, how many catches you have, how many this, how many, that. When we win and we're part of this championship team, we'll have spoils forever. You know, assistant coaches will become coordinators, coordinators will become head coaches. You know, you'll be Pro Bowlers. Everybody's going to make more money, and not only just now, but, like, forever. And I. And I still feel that way. And, you know, it's one thing, though, when you have a lot of scrappers on your team, but you had stars on your team. You have amazing players. Like you said, five players draft in the first round, the WNBA draft, was it more challenging with them to say, okay, you got to put your personal agenda aside? I was struck by the stats on your team. 17 points a game, 16 points a game. Everybody kind of. It's all together, right? Everybody contributing, everybody having a role.

A

Yeah, yeah, it was, but it was harder. I mean, I just kept going back to what did we agree was the most meaningful pursuit, and we all agreed on that. So I remember Lauren Betts, you know, who was, you know, an All American. She's probably the most decorated player to ever Play at ucla. You know all these things. Well, when we got beat by UConn by 30 in the final Four the year before, I went to her and said, look, how did it feel out there? How did it feel out there when you, you were just did. You could see in everyone else's eyes. They weren't confident for the moment. She goes, oh, it was terrible. It was lonely. It was this, it was that. And I said, okay, we had it. We got plenty of people coming back. We have championship talent, but that is not going to be enough. We are going to need to have championship character. And practically how that's going to play out is. Lauren, your usage rate needs to go down significantly. And we need to all year long prepare to make sure that our players understand that everybody is important and everybody's empowered to make plays. And in the end, everyone's going to win more. But initially your focus has got to be on efficiency and maybe just drawing double teams and forcing rotations and being a great help side defender. But in the end, it will come back to you tenfold. And she, she was the fourth pick in the WNBA draft. But more importantly, all those stats you just listed, everybody was felt empowered, everybody felt capable. But at the beginning of the year, she's like, ooh, this is hard. This is different. I'm not, I'm used to having my usage rate and my stats be higher. But as she empowered her teammates and as she sacrificed the wnba, people saw that too and said, wow, okay, that's really impressive. And so there were spoils for everyone, as you said. But the journey to get them to that point, you know, it's day to day choices, like all of us, right. It's a day to day commitment. I always say that mindset is not, is not a sometimes thing, and you can't carry it over. You got to do it every day. And it's not mine. Maybe it's not mind. Hope. You've got to set your mind on what you know to be true, because otherwise your flesh will lead you to places you don't want to go. And so I was a, it was a recommitment every single day about what we knew was going to lead to the end.

B

I have yetis in my cabinets in the kitchen that say recommit every day. That was always something I believe so strongly in that you can, you can talk about these big picture ideas, but you have to recommit to them on a daily basis or the whole thing is meaningless.

A

Absolutely. And again, going back to what we talked about, at the very beginning is I have to recommit. If we're talking about this selflessness and they see me getting in front of a camera and look at me, look at me. Or if they have any hint that it's not genuine, it loses all of its power. But if you can and that's the kind of person I want to be. And I screw up actually a story I with Lauren Betts I Right before the NCAA tournament after the selection show I made a really big mistake publicly on our our selection show sort of prep. It wasn't a press conference but in the interactions with the reporters and I I messed up. I allowed them to be privy to a conversation that was just between her and I and it was a big mistake on my part and she did not talk to me the next day and she was so angry with me and she had every right to be.

B

So you shared a conversation in an answer.

A

Yeah. So it was one of those big events with all of our donors but there just happened to be reporters there too. So I was not in the mindset of it's a press conference but I lost track that I was trying to connect with our fans. So I was interacting with questions and they were asking me about a matchup in our which didn't even end up happening but with LSU that would have been the third time we match up with them. And they said how do you feel about. And I said well actually Lauren and I were having a conversation and that's the matchup we wanted. Well she ended up getting really cyber bullied by a bunch of. It was really some nasty stuff that was going on. And the fact that I brought that on by a lack of self control of what I said was I was so wrong. But what ensued and then I'm thinking here we are going into the biggest NCAA tournament and I must I might have just screwed it up with our best player and I, I and we just had to have a real heart to heart and I just had to really eat my humble pie and say I was wrong and I need to humbly ask for your forgiveness. And the fact that I would bring that kind of pain to you is devastating to me. And so but it's one of those examples that I can't fake it. It has to be real. And sometimes I don't get it right. And I have to really trust my. My mom used to say you have to have a hundred deposits in of the mundane just day to day commitments to be have enough credibility to survive the one really hard thing. And Thankfully, I had enough deposits that I could recover with Lauren, but it was something I really had to take responsibility for. But it underscored for me, it can't be about what I say. It has to be about how I live.

B

Yeah. You remember earlier we were talking about, you know, when you have a conversation with John Wooden, to the Maxims, kind of does he lead with them? No. You said they flow into conversation. You're. You're a good disciple because they flow into the conversation so beautifully. I feel like I'm talking. I feel like I'm talking to Coach Wooden in so many good ways.

A

Thank you.

B

You know, something. Something that I think I wrestle with. Coach Saban, you know, all his success at Alabama, I was fortunate to work for him for a couple years with the Dolphins, and he talked a lot about process, and then he had so many coaches go on to be head coaches, and everybody talked about process over results and all of that. And he always talked about an experience he had when he was at Michigan State and how he was very results oriented and how. How that changed at that point. He completely changed his philosophy. You know, Coach Wooden never talked about winning. Bill Walsh's book is the Score Takes Care of Itself. Saban is process over results. Do you talk about that day one meeting at ucla? Do you stand in the front and say, hey, our goal is to be the national champion, or do you just say, absolutely. Okay, can you talk me through that, that little conundrum?

A

Well, you know, I mean, it's hard because. And I think it gets harder and harder because social media, you know, is. Comes into play. There's just so many aspects that are pulling on these kids. Attention, their agents, the money, the, you know, the publicity. Every little thing is just so intensified. And. And you probably are used to that in the NFL, you know, now the way it's come into college is really a different thing. And especially even for women, I mean, this is. We're in a different era now, so there are definitely different things, but I still am just as committed to that. And I think you have to start with that foundational principle. I mean, you just. You just named all of some of the most successful coaches across sports in our history. And I always say to our team, look, it sure didn't hurt them, did it? Like, look, there's a theme. Success leaves clues. And the clues are that actually outcomes and results are a distraction from actually doing what you need to do that lead to winning. And so we just set before them, look, just John Gordon would come into many. I'm sure you've probably heard this, but he goes into a lot of NFL locker rooms or college football before the year, and he has everybody write down on a piece of paper what their goals are, what they want. And, you know, it's to be a Pro Bowler, to win the super bowl, to, you know, fill in all those blanks. And then he says, I've been in X amount of locker rooms saying the same speech. How many of those are different from locker room to locker room? They're like, not many. Let's throw them all out. Throw them in there. And now let's write down our commitments. You know, let's write down what, what process we're committed to living in and through. And, you know, that's really what it comes down to. So we sit down the very first. Usually we go on a team retreat and we talk about what do we, what do we want to get accomplished and what are our objectives and what can get in the way of those? What are our biggest dangers that we need to guard against. And then we reverse engineer what it's going to take from a process perspective to get there. And then we never talk about the objectives again the rest of the year. We only talk about those, those guideposts, that process, those commitments, and the things that we're going to need to guard against. So, for instance, last year we knew that the temptation of outside noise was going to be really difficult. There were going to be people's parents, agents, whatever, they were going to be saying, hey, you got to get your, you know, stats up if you want to get drafted here or the draft boards and predict or we knew those going to be dangers. And so we started at least once a week doing this exercise we call the Mind Gym, where we're really focused on our mental conditioning. We would draw one circle and then an outer circle, and in the outer circle, we would talk about all the outside noise that's coming in, the temptations, the things that were pulling our attention away from our process. And then we would write in the inner circle our commitments, the things under our control. And we would just, what you said, reset your mind, recommit over and over and over again. And we literally did not talk about objectives the rest of the year. And, you know, when I, I, it was really fun. I sat, I stood in front of them and right before the game and I said, you know, you know, when we won this game and, and they said it right away, they said, September 25th. And that was our first day of practice when we committed to having the most elite process in the country, and they lived it and they did it. And we knew that the game would already be won because we knew our process was better than everybody else's.

B

And all of that is player driven. You're certainly in the room guiding it, but it's them kind of taking the lead on it. Is that correct?

A

Yeah. I mean, that's what you want. One of my real mentors is, you know, Tim Kite, who passed away recently, and Brian Kite, his son. E plus R equals O, event plus response equals outcome. And one of the things that Brian usually really has taught me is like, you can't always control whether or not it's player led or not. You know, you want to foster that. It's obviously best when that happens. But he also says you have to be a strong enough leader in your process that when you have years to where you don't have that mature leadership, that you can maybe step up in a different way and really be able to read what your team needs from you in that way. But this particular year, I could not have had a more. In my 33 years of coaching, I never had a more player led team or a more trustworthy team than I had last year. And they literally taught me more than I taught them. And I would go to them and say, hey, what's needed here? Right before the NCAA tournament, I came back. We had won the Big Ten championship by 52 points, and we had dominated. And so we're coming back, and we have 10 days before the NCAA tournament game. And. And I knew I needed to be really, really hard. And. Because they. I just think they didn't have that edge to them that. Because they just won by 52 points in the Big Ten championship. And. But I think I might have gone a little bit too far. And my two point guards, Kiki Rice and Charlize Ledger Walker, said, hey, can we meet with you, coach? And they came in and said, hey, I don't. What comes across. We know what you're trying to do, but what comes across is that you're almost panicking, that you're stressed, and that you're not confident going into the NCAA tournament. And I said, really? Because it's just the opposite. I'm so confident in you guys that. But I also know the danger of losing, like, that edge of every little thing's important. And they go, we get that, but you need to communicate that differently to the team. And I was like, wow, okay. And. Because it's not how it's being received. And so I Just thought, thank goodness I have incredibly mature, amazing, strong women that would come to their head coach and say, hey, you're missing the boat here and we need you to hear this. And I changed. And they, they, they, I've had all my exit meetings now and they're like, you just had a different piece about you after you got back that point. And I just communicate it differently.

B

That's an amazing story. And that's one of the, that's one of the best stories I've heard about team dynamics. And like you said, player led teams communication with the coach and obviously the way you took that in a humble way and then, and then, and then, you know, adjusted or evolved your style. That's awesome. That's a fantastic story.

A

Thank you.

B

So thanks for sharing that. Here's a question I have for you and Coach K actually mentioned this to me a few years ago. He said we have to guard against an AAU society where, you know, kids go play four games in a day. And a lot of those games are about, you know, highlighting themselves and you know, they lose and it's like that doesn't really matter. We're playing again in a half an hour. It was more about how I played. And you know, I always ask him the question about, do you talk about winning? And he said for a lot of years we didn't, but we do now because we got to get people back to understand that for him it was shirts and skins on the blacktop of Chicago. Growing up for your life, if you lost, you didn't play for three hours. Right. And just that competitiveness to win as a team, do you have any of those dynamics that you have to deal with with, with today's player?

A

Yes, I'm nodding profusely because I think that is so true. This is going to sound counter to what I all that I've just been saying, but it actually isn't. It feeds into. What you're talking about is that I keep track of four things in every practice. Okay. I keep track of every shooting percentage with defense and live play as well as without live play so that I can determine what best shots are. Things like that. I keep track of passion plays which are non statistical things that I think lead to winning. So assist screens, assist box outs, charges, deflections, those kinds of things. And, and I keep track of touches. We keep track of touches in our practices. High fives. You know, it's an amazing statistic that I don't know what it was this year with the, with the Knicks, but the last Four NBA champions led the league in touches, you know, and so that connectivity is so powerful. But the other thing I keep track of is comp wins. So whether it's a shooting drill, whether it's a defensive drill that scored, it's a three on three. I keep track of how. How many comp wins. And we post them in the locker room every two weeks. This cumulative thing. And the reason why we do that, it's not going against that. I thought you said you only cared about the process. No, but part of the championship process is learning how to help your team win, adding value to your organization. So whether you're in a shooting drill and you're like, okay, let me look around. What do we have?

B

What do we need?

A

What is it going to take for us to accomplish our objectives in this drill? And how do I contribute to that? And it is amazing what happens. You. You learn compet. Being a competitor is a skill. It is a skill of selflessness, of awareness, of advantage, learning how to hunt advantage and hide weaknesses. And so I think that is a really important thing. And so I really honor. Hey, Kiki Rice had, you know, she may not have led us in scoring, but she had the most comp wins this week. And she knows how to affect winning for her team in whatever circumstance she's in. And so that is a very high value for me. And I agree with, you know, coach Kaski 100%, because there isn't enough on the line for these people about what. What winning is going to mean or not mean. And it's not about that. Winning's the end all, be all. It's about doing things with a high attention to detail, a high level of urgency, and doing it for the person on your right and on your left. And that's important. You cannot let that person down. We are too committed for that. And so it may, at the surface, seem counterintuitive to what we've just been talking about, but when you really break it down, it actually is at the essence of being a selfless teammate and being. Having a tireless, relentless work ethic.

B

Corey, all of your success has not happened by accident. This has been such an education for me to hear you talk about so many things, macro things, micro things, interactions with players, building teams, building programs. You. You are something else. And I agree wholeheartedly with what Don Staley said. You're so great for the people who you're directly around each and every day. You're. You're clearly impacting their lives, but you're impacting the game and everybody's associated with it. We can't thank you enough for coming on coach to coach and I look forward to staying connected with you in the future.

A

Well, Jason, you, I have admired you from afar. I really love to study great leaders. You have a quiet confidence and strength about you and especially in the midst of adversity that I have admired and never knowing you. And when they came to me and said, hey, would you to be on your podcast, I was like, yes, I want to spend time with you. So thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to do so well.

B

I'm going to come track you down and come to one of your practices because I'm your biggest fan.

A

Yes, I'll take it. Thank you so much.

B

Okay, thanks so much. Follow coach to coach on social media and listen wherever you get your podcasts.