Meg Riley

It's effectively wild.

Craig Goldstein

It's effectively wild. We. Hello, and welcome to episode 2506 of Effectively Wild, a Fan Graph baseball Podcast, brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Riley of Fangraphts and I am joined today by Craig Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus, editor in chief of Baseball Prospectus. Craig, how are you?

Meg Riley

I'm doing well. How are you?

Craig Goldstein

I'm doing well. I have a bit of hotel related banter for you. We are going to talk about the All Star proceedings some, and then we're gonna, we're gonna look ahead to the second half. Not technically a half a season, but the second half as it is colloquially known, and some things that we are intrigued by, looking forward to, perhaps dreading. You are very gamely subbing for Ben Lindbergh, who hopefully is not being selected to serve on a jury as we speak. Have you ever served on a jury?

Meg Riley

I not only have never served on a jury, I have never been called to sit on a jury. Like, I have never had to even go in. I've never even had to get a. Like, I've never had to get a phone call or call in D.C. at least when I lived there, which is, it's shocking to me. I didn't get this because it's not the biggest population actually living in the city. I never even had to call in and be like, oh, my number doesn't have to come in, or whatever.

Craig Goldstein

Got it. Okay.

Meg Riley

A charmed life, one might say.

Host/Announcer

Yeah.

Craig Goldstein

The one time that I've had to present myself actually was when I was living in New York. So depending on where he got called, I might have a sense of the exact room that Ben is sitting in right now. You know, I sat there with a book for most of the day. They had Fox News on in the big room, which I didn't. That wasn't for me. And then when I got called in, I was asked questions because I don't remember if it was a civil or criminal case that they were impaneling a jury for. But as soon as I told them that my mom is a practicing attorney and that her wife was, was a public defender for a number of years, they were like, thank you for your service.

Meg Riley

Yeah, they don't. You say public defender.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, they don't. The prosecutor's like, get out of here. We don't want you.

Meg Riley

Which, which might be. Well, I guess it shouldn't prevent me from being called, but I did work for the, the larger, the public defender office at the administrative office of the U.S. courts.

Host/Announcer

Right.

Meg Riley

For. For several years. So I. I don't suspect I would be high on a prosecutor's list, I suppose.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah. And your wife's a lawyer. They don't want people who. Not because we actually know anything, but because we might know enough to be dangerous or annoying.

Meg Riley

You know, that is the extent of my knowledge. Right.

Craig Goldstein

As it pertains to anything to be dangerous and annoying. Yeah. Well, we will try to soldier on in Ben's absence. This is our weekly Patreon episode. So we are in the lovely free preview portion of our time.

Meg Riley

We're gonna say so much wild stuff. You guys have no idea.

Craig Goldstein

But I think that this is the optimal moment for me to engage in a low stakes rant which is actually a feature of our Patreon monthly bonus episodes. So you're really getting good preview content here for our. Our lovely listeners who are not yet Patreon supporters. What's with hotel pillows? What's up with this?

Meg Riley

Oh, I didn't know you were going pillows. You told me it was hotel related and I immediately thought of your post recently about showers.

Craig Goldstein

We're going to get to the showers. I had no idea the nerve I was tapping with that particular complaint.

Meg Riley

I have thoughts about the showers for sure.

Craig Goldstein

I want to hear your. Your hotel shower thoughts, certainly. I appreciate that. You know, of all of the. The linen related and adjacent accoutrement that are in a hotel, pillows are probably a bit of a conundrum because you know, the. If you have people sleeping on them regularly, they probably have to be replaced at some semi frequent interval. Also, as an aside to our listeners, you should replace your pillows every now and again. You know, like they get, they get gross. They get, they get squished in non refluffable re. Squishable ways.

Meg Riley

We're disgusting. Just as people. You gotta change them out.

Craig Goldstein

You gotta change them. How frequently are you guys swapping out your bed?

Meg Riley

This is where I reveal myself as Lyn. Like schmancy. And I've actually talked about my pillow situation on social media, so it might not be a surprise to some, but I have like one of those cooling pillows.

Craig Goldstein

Oh yeah, it's cold.

Meg Riley

Yeah. I have like what, what was billed as like the coldest pillow ever because I'm. I'm hot. I'm hot. It's. I don't even remember what it. I need. I should. Should have looked up what it's called, but it's. It's something like Ice storm or something insane. Yeah, but basically those things lose their shape after a Certain amount of time. So I'm just changing it out once it. And there I. Again. It's schmancy.

Host/Announcer

I.

Meg Riley

It's not cheap. But I'm so. I'm hot all the time.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah.

Meg Riley

And I even have a pillowcase that is supposed to allow the coldness because if you just wrap one of those things in a regular pillowcase, you're. You're mitigating its effectiveness.

Craig Goldstein

Right? Yeah.

Meg Riley

So I have like a pillowcase that's designed to allow that to come through. I take sleeping and being cold at the same time very seriously.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah.

Meg Riley

And. And so that is one place I'm willing to, to really go all out for. So I, it loses its shape kind of faster than I would like. But it, it does keep me changing out the pillow pretty frequently.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah. I think we're at like a. Every six months, kind of an interval. Maybe a little longer.

Meg Riley

Yeah, I think mine's longer than that. It would be expensive to change that. It is. People will, people will get me on this because they'll look it up. But I'm, I'm trying to be honest with you all. Yeah. My pillow is called Night Ice.

Craig Goldstein

Night Ice.

Meg Riley

I get them as gifts. Like I never know. People are like, what can I get? Speaking of which, you know, if people just want to send me gifts, my birthday is tomorrow.

Craig Goldstein

So I was going to wish you a happy birthday, but I was going to do it off Mike because I wasn't sure.

Meg Riley

Oh, it's okay. I don't need. So I ask for it as a gift every however often I need basically. And a family member or several family members can partake and that way everyone's happy.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah. Here's my returning to the hotel of it all. So I understand there's an expense. They're not putting the. What is it? The ice max? Is that what you called it?

Meg Riley

Night Ice.

Craig Goldstein

Night ice. That sounds like a men's deodorant scent.

Meg Riley

I know. It's really aggressive for a pillow.

Craig Goldstein

Night. I.

Meg Riley

It's, it's by bed gear. It's all very. It feels very man coated in a lot in so many ways.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah. This is like dude wipe adjacent worry about you guys. I get it. Like they, they, they cost money. Nice pillows cost money. And I imagine that, you know, pillows, sheets, the various. This is. And that's in a, in a hotel room have to be replaced. And at a big hotel like the Philadelphia Downtown Marriott, hundreds of rooms, two towers of rooms. You know, you had to know which side to go on. It was a little flummoxing when I checked in. So I'm not indifferent to the, the way that this expense might stack for them. And you know, they're hotel chain, they're trying to make as much money on you as possible. And I think that even in reputable hotel chains they're like, we didn't give you bedbugs, so we fulfilled our obligations. Why are all the pillows so bad though? They are terrible. And I generally am quite satisfied with like the caliber of mattress that one is presented with in a hotel situation. Like if you were staying at a reasonably nice hotel. And thankfully like the, the Marriott that they selected as the media hotel for the All Star game was, it was perfectly nice. Had a great little convenience store in the lobby, super friendly employees. All those gals were great. Shout out to them. But these pillows, they're substandard. They're horrible.

Meg Riley

So when, when you. Let's get some context around substandard. What, what is it you don't like about. I'm not, I'm with you. But I, I also, aside from not being freezing cold, my main problem with most pillows, I am a firm pillow person.

Craig Goldstein

So here, here, here we are. Here we have arrived at the, at the real, the real issue, which is why are they so soft? They, they are providing a mere whisper of support. The, the, the simple suggestion of it, you know, like, like, like the teaser of a, of a Freeman podcast. What more might be behind the pillow? Nothing. Nothing is behind the pillow.

Meg Riley

We say in the, in the free

Craig Goldstein

section of which, you know, we provide substance after the suggestion. Unlike these pillows, which are basically flat, you know, and no wonder they have to stack so many of them on the bed because you have to stack them to get any kind of support. I was like, what if you simply bought nicer pillows? Nicer pillows. It's a real issue. It's a real issue.

Meg Riley

I have to think with the amount of use the pillows get that they just lose shape immediately. But it does, it, it does feel like these pillows tend not to even have ever had shape.

Craig Goldstein

Right? Right. I do not think that the, the issue with the pillows is a matter of wear. I think it is a baseline lack of support. It is. They came out that way from the pillow factory. As an aside, the amount of particulate in the air in a pillow factory has to be intense right down little wisps of cotton and whatever else the filler is artificial down. Anyway, I, I like a nice hotel stay and even sometimes at the nice hotels they have the worst pillows and then you get a weird crick in your neck. And that crick might be exacerbated by the fall you take in the shower.

Meg Riley

Yep.

Craig Goldstein

Look, I. Again, I understand that it's just, it's a bunch of rooms. It's a lot of rooms and a bunch of plumbing that you have to sort out, but they are out of control. The people designing hotel showers and, and the hotel shower at the Downtown Marriott in Philadelphia, it was like it was fine. It wasn't the worst. It had a. The ability to fully enclose yourself. It did have one of those rain shower heads where you're just like, this is not enough water. You know, this isn't enough water for me. Although it was. It was. I say a rain shower head. It wasn't. The ones that are in the ceiling, those are evil because it's like sometimes you don't. Sometimes you just need a rinse. Craig. You don't need to wash your whole head. You don't need to wash your hair.

Meg Riley

The rain ones specifically, I'm like, I don't feel like I'm getting enough force to wash. Like to wash the, the shampoo or conditioner. Yeah. Out necessarily. Yeah. Give me, give me a little more pressure.

Craig Goldstein

Often they, they are going to this formula for them where there's. It doesn't close all the way. There's you. You get half a wall.

Meg Riley

My family took a vacation in June and we went to the, the, the showers in this situation. It's exactly what you described online. The door just ends so early.

Craig Goldstein

Yes.

Meg Riley

And in a place where you've positioned the shower head to spray water far beyond the door. And then I feel like I have to be like the floor guardian.

Craig Goldstein

Right.

Meg Riley

Like I have to position my body and angle it in a way such that the water spray goes back into the shower. Because otherwise you're just. You're soaking the floor.

Craig Goldstein

Yes.

Meg Riley

And I understand. I think you can do the open the thing where the door. There's no actual door and it's open, but you have to cover a significant portion of the length of the layout so that it is. The water pools back into, you know, is angled and pulls back into the. To the drain. It's absolutely insane. I, I do have to tell you, I, we. I stayed somewhere last year. I don't even remember, but they had done something I liked which was stunning in the hotel shower space. And it's that they had, they had cut out part of the. It was another one of these situations where there wasn't actually a door, but they had actually. They had covered a Fair amount. And they had cut out a little hand like opening by the handle to the shower.

Craig Goldstein

Okay.

Meg Riley

Because if you have enough glass or whatever it is to protect the floor and the entire situation from the water, then you have to get, then if you're the person getting in the shower, you have to get in and turn on the shower. And it takes, you know, even in hotels which have very good heating water heating situations, it takes a minute to, to heat up.

Craig Goldstein

Right.

Meg Riley

You, you're then stuck there like either squeezing against the wall or trying, you know what I mean? Like trying to avoid getting cold. You can, they had a cutout where you could turn it on from outside. You could just reach in and turn it on and then wait. Yes, I was, I was enthralled.

Host/Announcer

Wow.

Craig Goldstein

Enthralled. Enthralled. That's. That's quite clever because. Yes, that is part of the problem. It's like you, you're. First of all, you're dealing with unfamiliar knobs, you know, and so you don't

Meg Riley

know which way any.

Craig Goldstein

You don't know what's turning on what. You don't know how hot, immediately hot the water is going to be. So you're in a freezing or scalding situation a lot of the time. You have to do all of that while trying to keep yourself dry before you get in because you don't want to get water all over the floor. I'm like, how many. It is shocking to me that hotel showers are not a prominent part of attorney advertising for like local personal injury. Right. Like, how is the husband and wife law team not telling you? Have you had a hotel shower slip and fall? Don't let Mary. I'll get their way. That's not what she sounds like. The husband and wife law team are one of our local personal injury lawyer purveyors in the Valley, an official partner, the Arizona Diamondbacks. I love their commercial so fiercely. They are completely bonkers. But it, it's, it's. I'm just like, how are people not slipping and falling and hurting themselves constantly? And I think the answer is some number of them are.

Meg Riley

Yeah.

Craig Goldstein

And then there's never a little. And this is, this is not going to be. And we will move on here shortly, I promise everyone. But this is not going to be universally applicable. But the. When, when one needs to shave one's legs, if one is a person who shaves their legs, you need a little ledge to put your foot up on so that you can do so without contorting yourself or having to rely on A single leg, leg up on the wall situation which never works. You always end up with either a catastrophe or just a strip of hair that you've missed and then you just have like a one random strip of hair that you couldn't get to because by the time you would have gotten to it, you've lost your balance and you need to move on. So anyway, it's just, this is a simple, this is a simple thing. It's just a, it should just be a shower and I understand there are going to be some rooms where you know they have a half wall situation because they need to make the, the shower accessible. Like there are good reasons to have non standard shower designs but that's not, that's not the reason for most of the non standard designs. It's not that they are trying to make them easy for folks to get in and out of if they, it's in now.

Meg Riley

That's, I mean it's, it's just like the thing that people are doing. And I also, we, we can move on. But I do, I would, if people have knowledge of this, I would love to know like what, what are hotels getting out of this?

Craig Goldstein

Yeah.

Meg Riley

What is it, is it to just save money on not having a door or something? I think, I think ultimately even these, the, the hotels where they just have a curtain right. You know, or whatever that, that gives you the, that have the little weights at the bottom so that they, they stay where they're supposed to. When you, when you pull the curtain is a better situation than the, than the half wall, whatever. Unless you do it right. If you do it right with the little handle cut out and, and enough actual space. Terrific. But otherwise we're better off keeping it simple.

Craig Goldstein

Okay, well, we will do a little baseball talk before our free preview concludes here. Craig, how much of the All Star festivities did you watch?

Meg Riley

We watched the Home Run Derby. My right, my wife is a big Home Run Derby fan and we got a few innings of the All Star Game. I, I, I can't bring myself to force someone else to watch the All Star Game like you. You couldn't even come up with a reason, right? Like a convincing like I have to, I don't have to do it for work. I, you know, it's the All Star, they're barely trying. I don't think I have to give it my full dedication. So I, I did, we did see parts of it. I saw Miguel Vargas home run. I enjoyed that. Even though it was off Justin Wrobleski. It sounded like I did not Miss much.

Craig Goldstein

I think that we need to have a real kind of come to Jesus about what we want that event to be. I will acknowledge that the stakes of that conversation within the broader landscape of the things we need to have sort of a reckoning around in baseball are pretty low. But I think that there are a couple of things wrong. First, I think that there is a growing gap between the in person experience of these events and the television experience of these events. And that's a problem for the league because the vast majority of the people who are going to be engaging with the derby, the all star game, etc. Are going to be doing so from home. So it's, it's all well and good for me to say and I, I would actually that some of the things that I think probably maybe didn't play as well as folks would have wanted on TV seemed to go pretty well in, in ballpark.

Meg Riley

I, I have enjoyed immensely every single All Star Game I've actually attended or, you know, every All Star festivity.

Craig Goldstein

We just have goofy, simplistic brains. And so even if you are aware of like the limitations of the iconography you're being presented with, even if you have maybe a bit of cynicism in your heart, like, it is hard not to be moved by some of the, you know, nostalgia and wistfulness that they put in front of you at these games. And I'm, you know, prone to cynicism, but like, I know that the decision to do the sandlot tribute with the kids riding their bikes out on the field and what have you, didn't it, it got a mixed reception because it did introduce a long delay into the game. Their decision to pause it introduced something of a long delay. But I think that the reason that that delay felt pronounced to people was just that there was so little offensive action in the game that they, they felt like they were missing out on a game. And I'm like, you were. But it was mostly because everyone was striking out. You know, it's because the entire National League lineup was just so caprone that entire evening. Yeah, but it, it looked, it looked really cool. You know, you're never gonna, I'm never gonna be mad to be hearing Ray Charles. Like, I'm just, I'm, I'm not, I

Meg Riley

don't mind them trying something in an All Star Game. It's, it's actually the right place to try it.

Craig Goldstein

I agree.

Meg Riley

But I, I also think some of the displeasure with stuff like that is because people aren't really thrilled to be there from Home to your point. In the first place, it's kind of like, why am I watching this? Well, it's baseball, but it's like, but what am I, what am I doing?

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, I enjoy watching players interact with children in a way that's sweet. Like, that is nice. It's also funny. You can tell often like, who are the guys who have kids and who aren't the guys who have kids. The guys who have kids are like, oh, yeah, I've, I've met a child before, you know, after a point where I was one, I'm sure that he was instructed to, to play catch with the kid. But like, I, I wouldn't be shocked if Freddie Freeman just was like, why don't we play catch? You know?

Meg Riley

Yeah. Freddie has four kids. Right? Like, he's right.

Craig Goldstein

He has children, he knows what to do. And so, you know, like there's, there's something to that, I guess. But I think that there, there is a, a bit of a gap emerging and, and some of it too is like there, there are planned pauses in the action in the All Star Game. And so when you start to, to load up on those, it can feel like too much disruption. You know, when you do the, the America the Beautiful tribute and then also you have the stand up to cancer, it's just like you were doing a lot of.

Meg Riley

It's the mid game concert in the World Series thing too, remains the wildest

Craig Goldstein

thing I've ever seen.

Meg Riley

And again, while I do appreciate that the All Star Game is, is the place to do that rather than the World Series, in my opinion.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah.

Meg Riley

It is also, like you're already stretching my patience in terms of being here. Like we're here, I'm here, attending from home. To be clear, a nothing game.

Craig Goldstein

Right.

Meg Riley

And you're now like maximizing whatever it is that you're.

Craig Goldstein

The amount of time we spend doing the nothing game.

Meg Riley

And like, truthfully, I think like you said that there is a difference between being there and watching from home. And part of that is because if I'm watching from home, I could be doing basically anything else. And if I'm there, I'm invested. Maybe I'm looking at my phone, but like I'm present in a way. I'm not at home. And when they have your attention, it's easier to buy in. Right. You start, it's easier to be sold on some of this stuff. I don't mean necessarily America the Beautiful or God Bless America or whatever. But like the rest of it, you are willing to forgive these other parts, whereas at home, I think you're not willing to forgive. And I think all of that is reasonable for. For being there and for not being there.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah.

Meg Riley

And I don't. I don't know how you really bridge that ultimately.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, I don't. I don't necessarily either. I. I also think that part of the problem that the, the All Star Game is having is that for, you know, for all of its changes in formats, for all of the, you know, nitpicking or quibbling that folks can do, I think a great many people are in your wife's camp where they really enjoy the derby. And so the derby is, you know, it's fun. It has this, like, accepted spirit of, like, experimentation in terms of format when you have that and it's a thing that we understand to be not real baseball. And it's doing well. And I was like, well, what is, what is this game by comparison, necessarily? I don't know how you kind of fix that problem because you don't want to make the derby worse so that the All Star Game seems better by comparison. But also, you know, the, the derby is better.

Meg Riley

They're just. It's. It's a tough spot. I think every sport is in a tough spot with the All Star Game. No one wants to get hurt, right? Like, it can't be. And really, in baseball, like, it can't be even remotely close to a real game, right? With, like, no one even goes, you know, two plus innings anymore.

Craig Goldstein

Except for your, Your boy Justin.

Meg Riley

Yeah, well, you gotta. When you have, when you have Justin Robleski on the All Star team, you got to make the most of them, right?

Craig Goldstein

Because you, you only. You really only want Mason Miller to face the one guy that's.

Meg Riley

Yeah, that's what the fans wanted for sure. They're saying, give me more of this mustachioed, kind of greasy, ish guy. Less Mason Miller.

Craig Goldstein

Yes.

Meg Riley

But like, this is the thing, like, as. As for what Mason Miller is. And also, given his injury history, like, the Padres are probably like, please use him as little as possible. Right? Like, but that's, but he's the All Star. He's the attraction, and there's a tension in that. And I think there's less injury concern with, with some other, you know, with basketball or whatever. But even there, they don't. They're not playing hard, right? They're not playing hard defense necessarily. It's. I think a lot of these sports don't know what to do with All Star Games right now. A lot of the appeal at A certain point was that you never saw the other league, and now you do. And those guys wanted to perform for a huge audience, but they get a huge. They have access, technically, to a huge audience all the time now. Right. The ability is there for people from all over to tune into all games through MLB TV or various national TV games that just didn't. That inventory didn't exist all the time before. So I. I think these are just kind of relics in a way that aren't particularly solvable.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, I think that's right. And then you have the issue of the relievers are too good, man. You know, I mean, not to pick on your boy. Maybe not Justin.

Meg Riley

Yeah.

Craig Goldstein

All the time. And, you know, it's not like that was Christopher Sanchez's last night, but I. I do think you. You have this real. This real potential issue where if. If a guy can just max out because he knows he's only gonna have. Not only is he only gonna have, you know, one inning, he might only have one hitter. Well, you know, you're probably gonna strike out a couple of times, so I don't know what you do about that. Maybe the All Star Game should be a proving ground for your guys's idea of like a, you know, a velocity regulator where you just. Hey, Mason, you're. You're maxed at 100. That's it. You go above that and it's a. You know, it's a ball for the hitter.

Meg Riley

But if that's the case, like, do the. Is that what fans want to see? Right, Too right. And I'm not trying to really quibble with. With your suggestion. It's just. It's it that exposes the tension of it. All right? Fans want to see them at their best, but also at their best isn't necessarily at the most interesting.

Craig Goldstein

Right, exactly.

Meg Riley

Which is. Which is, again, you. You hold that in direct comparison to the derby. And even. Even with the changes, I preferred the clock. I don't know, kind of how you felt about it.

Craig Goldstein

Oh, you're a clock guy. Okay. I like. I like the number of swings.

Meg Riley

I think I didn't mind the number of swings as much as I thought. I really. I really despised outs.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, I didn't like outs. I thought. I think. Number of swings. Ben and I talked about this on our last episode. You know, you introduce time volatility to the extra exercise because you might just be down to your last swing and your contreras, and you want to. You want to get ahead, and so you're just going to take a Couple of pitches. But I think that being able to actually appreciate each individual home run is really nice because I want to see the. The majesty of it. It was cool in this derby because there was, you know, there's sort of a contrast of styles across the field where you had guys who were trying to, like, do big home runs, and then Walker's just like, line drive, line drive, boom, Red. Like, I'm gonna just, like, pepper that same spot and it's gonna, it's gonna work well for me. So I, I like that format, but I'm also open to us, like, kind of bopping around formats just to mix it up, you know?

Meg Riley

Yeah, I, I did. To be clear, I liked it. I was skeptical of the change because I really. It felt more like outs to me. And I, I really. The outs was just interminable. But because I also, I don't love. And I didn't love this when they did this with the clock either. Like, all the weird little add ons. Right. It's like swings until you get to your last swing, and then you can keep going as well. Like. Okay, what is that? I don't know. But it's. To get the exact result they got, by the way, which was thrilling. It was great. I also would say, like, as a proponent of the clock, I want to be clear. I don't think they did the clock well. It was too much time. There were the breaks, there were the weird things were. Is like if you hit a homer over 460ft twice, you get an extra. It was way too complicated. But I thought if they had done a shorter clock and eliminated some of the stuff going on, like, it could have been not even better than it was this time around. I thought this was great, but I thought there were improvements to be made with the clock. But I did really love the adjustment to the clock from. From outs. And I, I was, I was very happy with that change overall. So I, I still. It's. It's the best event that they have going. Yeah. Because they actually care about it to some degree. Unlike the Futures Game.

Craig Goldstein

Just make it nine innings. It's okay.

Meg Riley

It would be fine.

Craig Goldstein

No one be mad at you. No one would. No one would be mad at you.

Meg Riley

Or apparently the draft. Do they just not care about the draft anymore? Oh, Craig, one o' clock on a Saturday.

Craig Goldstein

I know, buddy. I know.

Meg Riley

What are we doing?

Craig Goldstein

What are we doing? And, and you didn't even have to deal with, like, the kerfuffle of getting in there.

Meg Riley

No, no. Well, also. But like, I Almost was taken aback that the draft was happening because it was one o' clock on a Saturday.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, it was pretty goofy. I will say it was pretty goofy. All right. Well, I think that challenges abound as. As it pertains to the All Star Game. They got to think about what they want that to be next year. I imagine that some of this will sort itself out, if only because, you know, there will be less. They won't be doing, like, America 250 stuff in conjunction with the event, which definitely was part of why, like, I doubt they do that, you know, Ray Charles sandlot fireworks spectacular if they're not in Philly for America 250. So, you know, some of this might just take care of itself by virtue of the venue being different, assuming we have baseball next year.

Meg Riley

You know, I was going to say, you know, who knows how much of a season we're dealing with?

Craig Goldstein

Maybe they're like, we have to get rid of the All Star Game because we've had a protracted lockout. We should talk about the second half of this season and some of the things that we're looking forward to or not curious about. Before we do that, though, quickly, do you have any thoughts that you would like to share on the Rob Manfred and Bruce Myers of it all from this past week, or should folks check in on five and dive to hear your thoughts on that?

Meg Riley

No, I don't mind sharing. This is the game to some extent. They're just gonna do this. But obviously I think the stuff Manfred says is just. It's so aggravating. He's so good at being aggravating. And I don't think it's unintentional. Right. I think, to be clear, I think Bruce Meyer is very good at being aggravating to a different crowd. Right. I like what he says, so it's. It doesn't bother me as much, but I think. I think that's part of his reputation, quite frankly, is that he gets under opposition's skin. So, you know, maybe credit to. To Rob on that front, but, you know, I'm looking at this. I was just going to refresh my mind on the quotes and Rob Manfred. This is in Evangelic's Athletic article on this. But, you know, he's. He says, like, it's always puzzled. It always puzzled me why people think because one side to a negotiation says, I'm opposed to this, that ought to take it off the table and that, you know, the beginning of salary cap opposition. 40 to 50 years ago, you had owners who said, I'm never going to pay a player a million dollars. But that's because they don't. Like, he goes, well, that doesn't mean it's not going to happen in a changed world. That. So that's a very puzzling thing to me. Like, it's not. It's not puzzling, Rob.

Craig Goldstein

Right.

Meg Riley

Like, this isn't. I just hate the, like, intentionally stupid things they say. Like, he's not as frustrating as I find him. He's not a dumb man.

Craig Goldstein

No.

Meg Riley

And so, like, you just, you come out and say this stuff and it's so, it's so demeaning. It just, it feels like they think so little of their audience so much of the time.

Craig Goldstein

I think they do.

Meg Riley

And. Yeah, and, and, and just. I don't know. He's. He's tying like, like the resistance to change, like the pitch clock stuff. Look, I, And, And I don't think. I think it is one reason to not be unilaterally oppositional to things that the league wants. I think the pitch clock, it's. I thought it was a good idea when it came out. Doesn't mean I don't have concerns about player health and things like that, but I think it's a thing to say, like, oh, you know, let's try it, but let's try and do it as safely as possible. Something like that. Like, it's a reason not to be strictly oppositional because now he's trying to say, oh, the PA was opposed to the pitch clock, which has been universally well received, but also like the pitch clock and the mechanics of the, the way money works in the game are just so vastly different things.

Craig Goldstein

Right.

Meg Riley

It's very, It's a very frustrating. The lead up to these negotiations where they're not really negotiating anyway, is. Is some of the most frustrating time for, for me and I imagine for you, in terms of. Of having to, to navigate all of this stuff.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah. As I noted on our last episode, you know, the negotiations don't really begin in earnest until the question of the cap is. Is either abandoned or acquiesced to. All of the proposals that the league is making depend, at least in part, on the existence of a cap and floor system.

Meg Riley

Do you. Do you make anything of Manfred saying the ownership group is more united than any group in his entire time in baseball? They're more united than 94, right?

Craig Goldstein

Yeah. Yeah. I find that a little hard to believe. I imagine that what he is trying to speak to. And I, you know, I think that there is a great deal of solidarity that tends to emerge between billionaires, even ones with as disparate a payrolls as some of the guys in. In this set of owner groups. But I think there is a popular perception that a billion. A potential pain point for the league is the, you know, the Dodgers and Mets sitting at one end of the continuum with completely different incentives and views of payroll than, you know, nutting has. And so I imagine he's trying to massage around some of that stuff. I don't know how accurate that is.

Meg Riley

Well, you project strength, right? I mean, that is.

Craig Goldstein

That is a reason for him not to.

Meg Riley

It's. It just felt like a wild thing to say when, when we have like a missed World Series on the books because they tried to unilaterally insert a cap during negotiations. That felt like they had to be really unified to do something like that. I don't know if this group is so bold.

Craig Goldstein

Yeah, I don't know either. And I think that there are real divides within the different ownership groups. If you're the Dodgers, it's not even just a question of, like, what is your view of how, how much latitude you should have to operate payroll the way you want. It's like, you know, for. For some of these clubs, it's like, hey, business is going really well. You know, we do better when there are butts in seats that that reality actually spans a number of different payroll levels. But, like, you know, on some level, there's. There's great incentive for everyone to want to not miss games. But there are some teams where it's like, we're printing money. We're printing money by having games. So don't, you know, don't mess with my good time. I don't know how important that sentiment will end up being, at least on the part of some of the big payroll clubs. I think everyone has an appreciation of the importance of games as it pertains to being able to secure their next rights deal.

Meg Riley

That is the crazy part to me is to. Is to do this posturing ahead and promote such negativity because really, people, my experience in talking to more casual but still baseball fans is like, it's just a negative vibe. All of all of this arguing. People just hate it. And so you're doing that ahead of bundling all your rights to expire in 2028. You're going to risk the 2027 season or even part of it. It's. It's just. It's absolutely insane to me.

Craig Goldstein

I agree. Well, we should appreciate the baseball we have while we have it and it recommences today.

Host/Announcer

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