John Fuller

Next year marks 50 years of ministry for Focus on the Family, encouraging families and helping them thrive in Christ every day. How has God used Focus on the Family to strengthen your marriage, to guide you in your parenting, maybe to bring hope in a difficult season? We want to hear your story. Call now and share how Focus on the Family has made an impact in your life. You'll find the link in the show notes.

Tim Shoemaker

There's worse things than our kids thinking. Learning about God is fun. I mean, when Jesus sent Peter to go get the temple tax, go fishing and look in the fish's mouth, Come on. He was having some fun with him, wasn't he?

Jim Daly

It is a little weird.

Tim Shoemaker

I would think so. You know, he's just, he's messing with him a little bit. And Peter learned a lesson he never forgot. God can provide in ways we can't imagine.

John Fuller

That's Tim Shoemaker, and he's with us today on Focus on the Family, helping you to find creative ways to share your faith with your kids. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly

You know, John, all of us as parents, we want to equip our children to know the Lord, to live for the Lord, to give their lives to the Lord. Right. And it starts with our consistency of our own walk with the Lord. And then how are we passing that on to our children? And it can become difficult. Where do we find those moments where a child goes, ah, that was awesome. And today's guest, we're going to talk about how to create devotionals that your kids will remember that make an impact because you've thought it through and certainly our guest Tim has thought it through. And you can get a copy of this book and it will help you to better do your devotional time. I'm excited about the discussion.

John Fuller

I am as well. And Tim Shoemaker is an author, speaker, and writing coach. And the book you're mentioning, Jim, is called the Very Best Hands on Kind of Dangerous Family Devotion.

Jim Daly

Gotta love the title.

John Fuller

Yeah. And this is volume two. So we're so glad to have Tim back in the studio with us.

Jim Daly

Yep. And, Tim, welcome back. Good to have you.

Tim Shoemaker

Glad to be here. Thanks so much, Jim.

Jim Daly

Hey, a lot of parents, like I said, they want to pass on their faith to their children, but they're not always sure what connects. I mean, I remember that, you know, I did the toothpaste one. I remember doing that little devotional squeeze out the toothpaste, then have the boys try to put it back or your daughters, and it's impossible. And then you parlay that into. That's how our words are spoken. You can't put them back in the tube. Once they come out, they're out there. And I think that was one that connected for the boys. But there is this challenge, especially age appropriate challenge, where kids need the tactile experience, like how do we put this together? And I guess it comes down to that question. How did you come up with the idea of using what you call dangerous devotions? Every child's gonna go, I wanna do this dangerous devotion.

Tim Shoemaker

Well, as the father of three boys and then even working volunteer with youth, as the years went on with my wife, you know, to hold their attention, that was really a challenge. And so that was really what was driving it, is what can you do to get their attention? And then you follow that with a little nugget of truth. And they just sort of etch together in their mind. But yeah, they're involved in some activity. They wonder where you're going with it and they're just having fun with it.

Jim Daly

You know, part of the problem, Tim, I think in the parenting role, a we don't get a manual to say this is the best way to parent. I would say there are some great curriculums that people should look at and focus on. The family has plenty of material for you. But in that regard, the devotional time, it is, you know, the purist is going to think, I need it to be structured, heavily structured. We're going to do three minutes of an opening song. Jesus Loves Me. This I know we're going to move then. And we kind of make it like a church service. And that may not connect with the kids according to their age. You know, 8 years old, 10 years old. Action is a good thing. And really doing something with their hands is also a good thing. Speak to the parent that might struggle with that. They're more structured and they don't see the benefit of what they might perceive as play. Why during a devotion would you encourage the children to play? This is serious, Tim.

Tim Shoemaker

Yeah.

Jim Daly

Speak to that parent's heart to say no. Loosen up a little bit, make it fun and it will stick.

Tim Shoemaker

Yeah, yeah. You know, maybe even to take a page from Jesus ministry. Right. The greatest teacher ever. And yet God, in all his wisdom, he gave us one recorded sermon, only one, Even though he was speaking all the time. But he gave us lots of stories. He gave us lots of these visuals that Jesus did. And really every time he healed somebody, that was an object lesson. He got people involved in, in an activity, in a sense, and they were able to See it. And so Jesus used this, get people involved. He was teaching them lessons before they knew they were being taught. And I think that was the power of it. Whereas today, once we sit them down, we try to, chances are they want to be bored or they're thinking about something else that they want to do next.

Jim Daly

Yeah, what about the parents? And again, I'm just speaking on behalf of the parents. I know, me being one of them, that we're assuming the kids are going to go to Sunday school, they're going to get all they need right there, and that's sufficient versus saying no. They need sprinkling. Kind of like your lawn, you need to water it often so that the green growth is there. Spiritually speaking, we as parents need to water spiritual truth into our children's hearts so that the effect, the impact is there. What about that parent that leans just too much on the church?

Tim Shoemaker

The church isn't there enough. The church will let their kids down. Their church won't be there in the middle of the night when they really need to talk. And so if you're establishing some spiritual conversations with your kids, it becomes easier to talk more about spiritual things as time goes on. And that Sunday school teacher may be there for a year or two in their life and then they're gone or whatever. And they do great work and that's wonderful. We love that. We just want more. They augment what we are doing because we're there all the time. Like you said with the lawn, the

Jim Daly

watering of the lawn. I like that you share a story about a dad who started doing devotions with his sons that eventually turned into something much bigger. What was that story out of your book and how did it impact people?

Tim Shoemaker

You know, I think that was one where there was a dad. I'd met him at a conference and he picked up the books. He's starting to do devotions with his kids, and he had boys and they were loving it. Well, he was telling other dads about it. And then that was right when Covid hit and Covid hit and suddenly their church closed. But he was able to still do these devotions while he's talking to other dads. That grew into a weekly group where they met outside in his lawn of 45 dads and kids. And they would take turns doing these devotions and it was some sort of an activity. And then they would tie a nugget of truth and they said that was just super effective.

Jim Daly

Now, that idea of dangerous devotions, a what are you achieving there? And why do kids love this edgy stuff and then it sticks. They'll remember that for a lifetime compared to something that, let me just say, could be boring. And they won't remember it.

Tim Shoemaker

We were just driving last weekend back from a men's conference and I can't tell you a ton about that drive. It was a nice drive, but we saw an accident happen in the lane next to us. This moment of whoa, you know, car went off into the ditch onto the oncoming lanes and he was able to swerve off without hitting anybody. That was like, oh my goodness, he hydroplaned.

Jim Daly

You remembered that?

Tim Shoemaker

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And this moment of that increased heartbeat, a little bit of adrenaline, whatever. When we incorporate even a little bit of that in our devotions where, okay, we're by a campfire here, we're gonna do something and you know, that makes a, that makes a difference. They. So I've got like this one here. Like you can take something like coffee made a non dairy creamer and you throw that on a fire and you get a great big.

Jim Daly

Oh, really?

Tim Shoemaker

Oh yeah.

Jim Daly

That stuff's flammable.

Tim Shoemaker

Yes.

Jim Daly

Should we be drinking it?

Tim Shoemaker

I tell you what.

Jim Daly

Well, I'm sorry, I just never knew that you just changed my morning drink.

Tim Shoemaker

As long as you're not smoking, it

Jim Daly

goes up in smoke.

Tim Shoemaker

Oh yeah.

John Fuller

Oh yeah.

Tim Shoemaker

Big flame. And so it's very exciting.

John Fuller

Thank you, by the way, for not demonstrating that here in the studio.

Jim Daly

So let me ask you, how do you attach that to a biblical principle? The fact that, that, you know, coffee creamer goes up in smoke.

Tim Shoemaker

Okay. So you take a handful of it, right? And you throw that in the fire. You create this big thing. It is in your hand, Jim. It is in your power to create this great big burst or not, depending if you throw that on. Same thing. Let's say when you, our kids are having conversations at home, it's in their power to make a big flame and make a big blow up or not. It's in our hands to do that. Bible tells us a soft answer turns away wrath. Right? A gentle word. And we want to encourage our kids and sometimes instead of just saying, hey, talk nice, take them out to a campfire, get some coffee, mate, and we do this little.

Jim Daly

This is like our words. Yeah, that is good. I love that. I'm sorry we're not camping anymore. I would have done it this weekend and thrown the whole bottle on it.

Tim Shoemaker

Oh yeah, yeah. Stand back.

Jim Daly

You know, your brother in law and his wife recently saw the impact of these types of devotional lessons, which is Great. What happened with that experience? What did they walk into?

Tim Shoemaker

So my brother in law, Jim, he's a pastor down in Florida and he had done a devotional with the kids. It was with elementary kids years ago. And he had done this one demo that's a variation of. It's in the book. And then his wife was going to be doing the youth group just a week or so ago. And so he said, hey, you know, we'll have you do this one. It's this cool chemical thing and let's do this. And so she does it. Well, she just starts it. And one of the girls in the class says, oh, I know that one. And she said, well, tell me what was the point? And the girl was able to give it. And when they looked back, it was like 10 years earlier that Jim had given that devotional when she was in elementary school and now in high school she still remembered it.

Jim Daly

Oh yeah, that's the point. I mean, that's actually the evidence of what we're talking about.

Tim Shoemaker

Yes, yes.

Jim Daly

And let me also say, you know, not every parent is the same. We have a spectrum of personality. God's bouquet of flowers. So some parents are going to be more engineering minded. Then you have other colorful parents that are always excited about everything. But within that, for the parents that may feel intimidated in doing some of this, you know, it could go wrong, Tim. I mean, it could blow my hand off that coffee powder.

Tim Shoemaker

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim Daly

I mean, you can rationalize not doing it for lots of reasons. How do you encourage that parent that's a little more hesitant to do something like this? It takes time, it takes effort. You got to think about it. But what do you say to that more reserved parent who may not get

Tim Shoemaker

it with the book? We're going to walk them through it. We realize that some are going to feel like that. So we're going to walk them through it. We're going to encourage them to try it once ahead of time and they're going to feel more confident. But when they get their kids reactions, oh man, that's going to move them past a lot of hurdles because they're going to see how engaged they were and how good that went. And they're going to think about that later and say, wow, Tim, I want

Jim Daly

to share a story. It's so funny. So we bought this experiment from Hobby Lobby and we connected. It's where you connect these little test tubes that have a metal strip with a battery cable, little like 9 volt battery thing that sets up and overnight you submerge These and hydrogen gas builds in the upside down test tube, which is rocket fuel. So the next day you light the rocket fuel and kaboosh. You know, it's like this, you know, big flame and it's so much fun. And so. But I left it on the counter the next night and Gene and I went off to dinner. It was a Jewish Christian dialogue dinner at the Broadmoor.

Tim Shoemaker

Oh my goodness.

Jim Daly

And the phone rings and we can't get to it. So our youngest at that time, Troy, who was probably 7, leaves this message. Let me play it for you.

Troy

Hi, mommy. Chinton actually was dumb enough to get the battery. I put my tongue on the mini junk cables and actually plug it in the DVD player and it caused smoke. But don't worry, it did not start a fire. This is Troy. And my. And by the way, printed it. Okay, okay. Have I been specific enough? Okay, bye. Oh, besides, don't go easy on it.

Jim Daly

I mean, is that a catastrophe?

Tim Shoemaker

That is so great.

Jim Daly

But here's the lesson I learned. Put the experiments away if you're not going to be at home.

Tim Shoemaker

That's true. Hey, and you know what? If there's anything dangerous, seriously, if we had anything that was considered dangerous, you know, we tell the kids, hey, we're, there's a little bit dangerous that we're working on and dad will do it anytime you want. But don't be playing with this on your own.

Jim Daly

I love the younger brother there though. Don't go easy on Trent. So it's just so fun. Hey, you also tackle serious topics in your devotionals like dating and gratitude and family conflict. Man, those can be kind of really hard for parents to plan a dangerous devotional around those topics. How can those topics become like fun devotionals?

Tim Shoemaker

Well, boy, the dating one just popped in my mind just as you said that. So one of the big things with kids is we're stressed and we only want them to date a Christian and that could be a hard thing. Why can't I go out with someone? We're just going out for fun or whatever it would be. And so we run a little three legged race. So we've got two of our kids and we tie, you know, their legs together, use a scarf, whatever, tied together. And we have them run a little obstacle course and we time them and it'll take them however many seconds it did. Now you're on the same course, same two people again, time together. But one is facing forward and one is facing backwards. Time will begin.

Jim Daly

Oh, wow.

Tim Shoemaker

And that time's going to be a whole Lot different. Okay. A lot longer. And now we can transition to that truth. Hey, you know what? You can feel just as close to somebody whether they're a Christian or not. Just like whether you were facing the same way or different ways, you're just as close. But it can only be for a short period of time. It's going to impact you in that marathon race of life, of being married. Which way do you want to go through marriage? Facing the same direction or a different direction? There's a great verse I want to say, it's Galatians 5 and it talks about the flesh desiring one thing in your life and the spirit desire in another. And when you put that together, you're going to have a real mismatch. And imagine if there was a race in life where there was a million dollar prize, if they made it in a certain amount of time and it was a three legged race, which way would they want to do that? I think they'd want to face together after that little exercise.

Jim Daly

Yeah, exactly.

Tim Shoemaker

And the same thing goes with talking about marriage and the people that we would date. We have to make sure that they're facing the same direction or we're never going to get there to that great relationship. We want to.

Jim Daly

You know the thing that is amazing, and this is so true with good devotionals like these, you think you're just doing this to teach your children and what ends up happening is you're right in the lesson with them. Learning something about yourself.

Tim Shoemaker

Yes. There was a time our boys were young and my wife and I had a business. You remember the one hour photo labs and studios?

Jim Daly

It's vaguely familiar.

Tim Shoemaker

Yeah, yeah. And so we called, closed our business in 2004. There was just no need for it anymore. We were.

Jim Daly

Technology overcame.

Tim Shoemaker

Yeah, we were losing our shirt. And so I took the boys on this little mystery ride. And so basically they were blindfolded and we made three stops. And the whole idea is they kept their blindfold on. We get to the first stop. Okay, boys, lift up your blindfold. Write down where you think we are. Don't tell your brothers we're going to see them when you get right. And my objective as a dad, fool him. That's all I wanted to do is fool them. And sure enough, when we'd done these three stops, then we went to a little fast food place afterwards and said, okay, what did you have on your list? First place, second place, third place. And as soon as you see a place they didn't know exactly where you were. And then you know, Were you scared? You know, did you feel like jumping out of the car? Did you feel like wrestling the wheel away from dad, finding your way?

Troy

No.

Tim Shoemaker

No, because dad was at the wheel. Dad knew what he was doing and it was an opportunity to say, you know what, there's like life, there's going to be times you don't know where you're at, why you're there, and you don't know where you're going next. Just like you trusted dad, we got to trust God because he knows all those things. He's at the wheel, you trust him. And boy, I tell you what, that was ministering to the kids. But that was just exactly what I needed at that time because I was in that spot. I had no idea what it was going to look like next.

Jim Daly

Yeah, that's so good. You know, I can imagine that kind of dangerous devotional which we're talking about, especially 8, 9, 10 year olds, but also 13, 14 year olds.

Tim Shoemaker

Oh, my goodness.

Jim Daly

Yeah, they will 20, 30 years later remember that in that moment when something has happened, that. That was exactly the object lesson all those years ago, man. I need to remember. The Lord's in control here.

Tim Shoemaker

Exactly.

Jim Daly

And that's the goal, right?

Tim Shoemaker

That's exactly right. It gets embedded in their heart. It's not so much. We talked in the beginning about sitting down and having that deep conversation with our kids and they're processing through their head there, you know, through their logic center. They're taking it in there. But when we have an activity, boy, that becomes a hard thing and that truth just gets etched.

Jim Daly

I don't want to get away. For the YouTube watchers again, we see dice and pretzels. What are they about?

Tim Shoemaker

Well, you know, there's sometimes you can run like you remember, like that minute to win it type games. They'd have all kinds of crazy games and you'd be. You have a minute and see how well you do. Well, you run some minute to win it games with your kids. So one is you can put like solo cups on your hands and you have to stack dice up. And so you have to see how many dice you can stack up in so many seconds. Right.

Jim Daly

I don't know that I'd get very far.

Tim Shoemaker

Can you show us how that works? You know what I think? I think that I'm close to you.

John Fuller

I think you can do this.

Tim Shoemaker

I could slam this right over. Yeah. And. Or another one is you take like a chopstick, right? And you hold it in your mouth and you put a bunch of these pretzels. You Know, circle pretzels or the twisty pretzels in a bowl. And they've got to try to hook as many as you can right in that minute. And of course, it's lots of fun. We can have fun with these games, but then we can transition to that spiritual truth that we'd probably be better at any of these if we had more practice right the first time through. We're terrible at it. And it's the same thing through with many of the spiritual things. You know, prayer, trusting God, shedding anxiety. These are not easy things to do if we never put them into practice. But as we practice them, we're going to get better and better. And that's part of the Christian life, is we don't just try to pull these things out when we need them. We're practicing these all the time.

Jim Daly

You know, one of the great attributes I believe in the human experience is this idea of humor. You know, being able to laugh at oneself. It's so critical because in it is humility. And you know, when you're doing that, you're, I'm sure, hopefully healthy enough that you're going to laugh at yourself with your inability to stack dice, with your inability to scoop up pretzels on a chopstick. And I mean, that really is the underlying lesson, I think, one of this idea that, you know, you aren't as good as you think you are.

Tim Shoemaker

That's right.

Jim Daly

And that's a good thing, I think. So it's rooted in humility and experience that way. Tim, let's land here with this idea of parents who have left it to the church. You know, they're fairly formal, and what I mean by that is a little more stoic. They're not excitement type parents. You know, we're not looking for dangerous devotionals. But the benefit of this, even for that parent to break out of their kind of cast and take themselves a little less seriously to do things like this, to have fun with their children. 0 to 18, or probably about 4 to 18, it gets a little more complicated for teenagers, but you can still do this. Speak to those parents and say, turn over a new leaf. Give it a run. Help your children to better understand spiritual truths through these kind of experiments. Make your pitch to the parent that's never done this and has never thought about it.

Tim Shoemaker

Okay? So you know what if they're doing. Maybe they're doing something on a daily basis, I'd say keep doing it. Keep doing exactly what you're doing. But once a week, swap it out once a week. Do something more active because sometimes our kids are tuning us out. Their mind drifts and we're not even aware of it because they're acting pretty good. But you can't check out of some sort of activity that you're having. So once a week, do it. Because one way or another, we want to use different methods to impact their heart and to help them remember God's truth. So sometimes they can do it where they sit down and they have a. A very serious lesson. But swap it out sometimes and do some of these fun things. And in the long run, Proverbs talks about, right. You know, cast your bread on the water. You know, it's talking about different ways of doing things. Don't just put all your eggs in one basket. Try some other methods because one's going to stick. Yeah.

Jim Daly

And Tim, here's the thing that I've learned. Don't make parenting complicated.

Tim Shoemaker

Right?

Jim Daly

Because then you get discouraged and you stop doing the right things. But doing these kinds of things are simple things, fun things. They're not anti biblical.

Tim Shoemaker

No.

Jim Daly

I mean, this is like the full flavor of God's treat for us to live this life and we remember these things. And what a joy to be able to do this.

Tim Shoemaker

Right? Right. There's worse things than our kids thinking. Learning about God is fun. I mean, when Jesus sent Peter to go get the temple tax, go fishing and look in the fish's mouth. Come on. He was having some fun with them, wasn't he?

Jim Daly

That is a little weird.

Tim Shoemaker

I think so. You know, he's just, he's messing with them a little bit, having fun with. And Peter learned a lesson he never forgot. God can provide in ways we can't imagine.

Jim Daly

Well, again, Tim, these are such practical, good ideas that a parent of children of all ages right there can do these things and have fun. I'm so grateful for your direction to help us and for the great book, the Very Best Hands on Kind of Dangerous Family Devotions. I mean, one, the title's fantastic. But thank you for being with us today and helping us in this way. Thank you.

Tim Shoemaker

Well, I'm glad to be here.

Jim Daly

And let me turn to you, our listener. I hope, you know, Focus on the Family is here for you. As you're raising the next generation, we're here to help. We can answer your questions, offer trusted guidance, and walk with you through this parenting journey. One helpful resource we'd love to share with you is Focus on the Family's Age and stage newsletters. Each week you'll receive a short email tailored to your child age and stage, offering practical, biblically grounded insights to help you parent with confidence in that age range. We also have Tim's fun book, the Very Best Hands On Kind of Dangerous Family Devotions Volume 2. It will help you build lasting faith through memorable moments. Each activity is designed to spark meaningful conversations and help plant God's Word deep in your child's hearts. And when you make a monthly pledge today, a gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy of Tim's devotional book as our way of saying thank you. And I want to share this with you as well. We recently heard from a listener named Mary who wrote to us and told us this. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and realized I wanted to parent differently. So I started listening to Focus on the family more than 25 years ago and soaked up everything I could. Today my two daughters are married and they've blessed me with seven grandchildren who are following the Lord. I'll be supporting Focus on the Family until I'm in heaven. It doesn't get better than that.

John Fuller

What a note. And what a commitment.

Jim Daly

Yeah, that's the kind of ministry that you can do. Through Focus on the Family, you are helping to change lives. As a nonprofit ministry, we depend on your financial support. If you aren't already a member of our Friends of Focus on the Family program, I want to urge you to consider doing so. We've set a goal this month to find 1200 people to join a community of monthly sustainers who care deeply about families and I hope you can become one of them. Your monthly gift will help us provide resources to meet the needs of families and help them heal through Christ. And right now we want to say thank you in a special way. When you commit to $30 or more a month, we'll send you a Focus on the Family with Jim Daly travel mug. Sounds a little odd to say. Along with a four ounce bag of my very own coffee blend. The same one we enjoy here in the studio with our guests. If Focus on the Family has encouraged you or your family, take a moment to partner with us. Your support means changed lives, stronger families and a brighter future. And if you can't make that monthly commitment, we'll send you a copy of Tim's book for a one time gift as well.

John Fuller

Yeah, sign up for those Agent Stage emails. And to become a monthly sustainer, donate and get your copy of the very best Hands On Kind of Dangerous Family Devotions Volume 2.

Jim Daly

Well done.

John Fuller

When you call 800 the letter A in the word family or stop by the Show Notes where we have the links for you. And join us next time as we hear from counselor Deborah Fileta. She'll help you develop your people skills so you can better show God's love to others.

Tim Shoemaker

And oftentimes what we're told to do in our culture and society is when we're triggered, we're told to back away, cut that person out of your life. No contact, isolation, withdraw from them. But what if triggers were actually God's way of revealing what he wanted to heal inside of us?

John Fuller

Thanks again for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Hey, this is John Fuller, and we're getting ready to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Focus on the Family. But the celebration won't be complete without hearing from you. We want to know how Focus on the Family has helped you survive the toddler years, navigate the teen years, or be reminded that you're not alone. How has God used this ministry to encourage you? Tell us when you click the link in the Show Notes.