A

Foreign.

B

Hi, everyone. This is Dr. Patrick McGrath. I'm the Chief Clinical Officer for NOCD. Welcome again to another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. If you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions, check us out@nocd.com that's n o c d dot com. Today, Amelia Fart is here. Hey, Amelia. How are you?

A

Hi.

B

So good to have you here and want to thank you for some of the work that you've done in partnership with nocd. We really appreciate it. Why don't you tell everybody, before we get into some things, a little bit about you, yourself and what brought you here to the Get To Know OCD podcast.

A

So I've been doing weird things on the Internet for about 10 years that it became my job, and I'm here because I have ocd. And I've been collaborating with NOCD since, I don't know, for years now. And NOCD has provided me a lot of, like, comfort and support when I've needed it. So it's a pleasure to be here.

B

Well, it's a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much. You've really built a distinctive creative identity online. It's a bold style, honesty, just at its raw core. How has OCD existed alongside of that as you've kind of shaped your identity online and grown into who you are today?

A

It wasn't something that I talked about or shared for the. A large portion of the beginning of me doing Internet stuff. I think there was a little bit of shame. I feel like in some ways I felt like it didn't match the way I can present publicly. So I think it's. It's been a relief of shame to share it.

B

I'm glad you said that because, you know, the DSM definition I've always felt of OCD is. Is lacking because it just talks about anxiety and discomfort. But we know that shame and guilt and disgust and any other emotion that's really strong can be a driving force in ocd.

A

Yeah, I know. I have friends with OCD that have found a lot of empowerment and sharing because I think sometimes when it comes to, like, thoughts that you can have, like, taboo thoughts related to ocd, I've seen in them such a liberation and kind of sharing it. It's not like it, like, gets rid of it, but to be open about it, I think is beautiful and connecting, and it's important to try to relieve the shame of things.

B

Growing up, did you recognize ocd, or looking back now, can you see where OCD was before you had the language of identifying OCD being a part of your life.

A

I think when I was really young, the moments I can remember are fashion related, which is. Can be tied up into my OCD Control with style. There was a time when I cut my knee really badly and my mom was pushing me up in a tricycle. And I remember just watching the blood from my knee slowly pour into the tops of my ruffled socks. And I was like, no. One time I was on a roller coaster, and instead of enjoying the roller coaster, I was watching the dirty water splash against my little shoes. But pretty early on, I started to lean on substances. And while I was leaning on substances for a lot of my youth, it dulled my OCD. But when I stopped using substances in 2014, that's when the OCD became really apparent.

B

Also. Glad you brought that up because it's not a topic people talk enough about in terms of the way people attempt to drown out some of the obsessions by utilizing substances as a way to quiet their mind down.

A

Yeah, yeah.

B

And I've even worked with folks that, you know, if. If they talked about when they were tired, OCD was worse. They would use substances to keep them awake, or if their OCD was worse when they were kind of at the height of their day, they use something to bring them down. Right. And so that it just would kind of depend on how OCD manifested and when for folks, in terms of what substances might be used throughout the day.

A

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's. Yeah, it can be like a momentary relief, but it's not. I didn't find it to really be helpful.

B

What was it like getting sober? How. How difficult was that experience?

A

I. I don't. Like. It wasn't difficult. I just didn't feel like it anymore, which I know is like kind of a weird trajectory. I don't know. I think I just. I did it so much. I had seen people in my family suffer with addiction. I don't know, somehow I just. I didn't. I just. I got it out of my system or something.

B

Yeah, but that's a tough call to make because as you said, OCD gets worse then, Right? Because now it doesn't have the buffer in there anymore or. Or that thing to calm it or quiet it down.

A

Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm not. I wasn't numbed enough to just be lit, so I had. I clung to control a lot more.

B

Did people around you recognize this at all or see what was happening or have any idea about ocd?

A

Yeah, my friends definitely did. Because anytime that we were going to go out together, they, like, I had to do my rituals, and they were very patient. But I don't think we said the word ocd. I think they just tried to brush it off. Yeah.

B

What was OCD then, taking away from you? What was it doing to interfere in your life?

A

I think it took away a lot of time. It took away a feeling of freedom and a feeling of peace and contentment, an acceptance of a free fall. Like, I feel like life is a free fall. And OCD is a form of, like, clinging to the roots as you're falling. There's a lot more of a feeling of peace when you don't try to scratch at the walls.

B

Yeah, yeah. And there can be a lot of nail marks on those walls after a while, can't there?

A

Yes, there can. A lot of dirt under the fingernails and not actually helping. You're still falling.

B

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it feels like a slowing down at a moment here or there, but every compulsion makes OCD worse instead of better, doesn't it?

A

Totally. Yeah.

B

That's gotta be a hard lesson, right? That though they feel good in the moment, the compulsions are actually the thing that are holding you back.

A

Yeah, it's really hard. It's. Yeah, it's such a. It's, it feels like a trick almost, because the desire is to do more or just get it just so. Everything just needs to be just so. And then you'll feel peace and then you'll be okay. But, yeah, it's, it's an illusion.

B

Was there a point where you recognized finally for yourself, yeah, this is OCD? And how did that come about?

A

I had two separate mental health practitioners tell me that I have OCD. The first one was in 2014 when I got sober. Um, and it was kind of a slow acceptance of it. Um, and even once I accepted it, even just recently in the past year, I've had moments of being like, oh, this is a compulsion, too. It's not just relegated to the things that I thought it was. Me putting on my chapstick for five minutes straight. Is that brushing my teeth for half an hour? Is that.

B

Yeah, yeah. There could be some compulsion that goes along with that, right?

A

Yeah.

B

Yeah, exactly. You recently got married. Congratulations on that. And what is it like to be in love, to get married, but to have almost, at times, a third partner in the relationship with you?

A

Yeah, it's a good question. I, I, it has become so much more apparent in being with my wife, living together, and being so entangled. When I was Because I was alone for a really long time. And it's a lot easier to just live with your compulsions when it's not being witnessed and it's not affecting someone else as much. But she is so non judgmental and accepting and supportive and patient, which I'm very grateful for. So I don't feel pressure from her, which I'm appreciative of, to kind of like just turn it off, which obviously I would if I.

B

Hey, just stop it, why don't you?

A

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. I should have thought of that earlier.

B

I tell that to everyone. Everyone's like, oh, yeah, I should have, should have done. Oh, right.

A

Yeah, yeah. But she's, she's, she's really great. So I'm glad to have her support.

B

As you look back, I'm. I'm assuming you've had some relationships prior to your wife. Can you see what the role of OCD was in those past relationships and maybe some course corrections you had to do to be able to now be with someone and be committed and not have OCD also ruin that relationship?

A

Right. I think, like, all my relationships prior to this one didn't feel real. I mean, some of them with, with men. So that makes sense. But I think just because of, like, trust issues and fears, I was never fully. I was never fully in it with anyone else and then just truly just wanted to be alone. And I think part of the wanting to be alone is protective in many ways, and part of the protection is to not be challenged in compulsions and, you know, not have a witness to it. So it's been a big learning experience to be with my wife now, and it's challenging in a way that is very good for my soul.

B

That's great. Has it done similarities with your family? Can you be with your family differently now than you were, say, growing up and when it wasn't so understood the way it is today?

A

My family. Hard to say. I think, I don't think. I think my family members that I see the most often, they're very like, open, understanding. And yeah, the more they understand, the more they're adapting. And we can talk about it, but I think some of my family doesn't really understand it at all.

B

How about in terms of fashion? I mean, you know, I think those stories were really telling actually about your ruffled socks getting stained, your shoes getting stained. Has OCD impacted even your fashion choices, designs, and how did you work to overcome OCD's influence on those?

A

I think it presents in. Because having an element of control of how you present in the world is something that I have really clung to throughout my whole life. So I can cling to, like, certain accessories. Having things have to be so particular, so specific, and if I don't have access to, like, this particular object, I can feel deeply uncomfortable. And I am growing to challenge the root of that more. The root concept of the way I'm trying to think of it is in my mind if, say, a brooch, I can put a brooch on, and it helps channel greater feeling of confidence when I'm in the world. Broach to me, is a way of accessing it, but the feeling is always within. So I'm trying to understand that there's a way to access that feeling without that object that I've put meaning to.

B

Yeah. And I. I don't want to use this word lightly, but sometimes there can feel almost a superstitious kind of feel to certain things. Right. Like this. This helps me through the experience, but you could see how related that is to a compulsion. Right. Doing this thing is. Is what helps me through the experience. And, you know, I. I think many people have a good luck charm or something that comforts them, but for me, that's fine until it gets to the point where if you forget it for the day, then suddenly you can't live your day anymore. Right.

A

Yeah.

B

And when that happens, that's when it's gone beyond just, oh, it feels good to have this, but I have to have this or else I can't function or survive without it. Right.

A

And.

B

And I'm wondering if things ever got to that point for you.

A

Totally. Yeah. Like, if I didn't have a particular ring on, the whole, day was ruined. Like, I couldn't have. One time one of my rings fell off before I left the house, and I said, I can't leave the house now. So I did it the whole day.

B

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, funny on one end, but makes total sense from an OCD mindset, too, that, you know, why would I leave the house if I don't have my ring? Does it go beyond fashion? Like you. I can see a candelabra there. And, you know, curtains. Does it affect how you decorate and the feeling you have in your home? In some ways, totally.

A

It very much does. Like, for example, this candelabra has to be at the most, like, very exact angle so that when I'm on my bed anyways, every single object in my home, and there are so many little rocks and knickknacks and everything, and they all Are. It's so precise and exact. It can be a little. It can be freeing when I'm not in the home because there's a lift of that focus. But yeah, there's a lot of stuff entangled in the decoration.

B

Yeah, I can understand that. And I will say that when I've done ERP with people, those are the things I've helped them work on. Like, let's move the candelabra 2 degrees tonight when you go to bed or something. And let's turn that picture a little bit and start living with the doubts, the uncertainties, the discomfort of those things is important. And I see a cat there, so I'm assuming it likes to bump things and move things around and gives you plenty of opportunity to have to face like, well, okay, and you're married. Right. And which means you have to not only have your stuff, but adjust to someone else's stuff and the way that they live in the home. Because it can't just be OCD running things anymore. Right. It's gotta accommodate. Which OCD is not a big fan of. Hasn't ever really liked the word accommodation whatsoever. Yeah, no. You also then have to probably approach content and creation and writing through a lens of OCD and overcoming the influence of it. I mean, I've. I've had people who will be stuck on the same sentence for three hours making sure that it's the right meaning or reading. Reading something for hours and to know that they got the meaning out of it that they wanted to. How have you been able to push through at times in content creation? The ability to actually put something out, even if OCD screaming that it's not quite right yet.

A

Yeah. I found in the filming it would very much present, like I could when I was making like my YouTube videos, like the style when I first started, I would have four hours of footage for like a three minute video. Because sometimes I write some editing. Yeah, it's a fair amount of editing. I would write like a script for it and I would say the Same line like 60 times because it was never quite right. And even after the. I would. And then I would usually take the first take.

B

Sure.

A

But yeah, so it would be a lot of repeating the same lines, getting so much footage. Because what if, what if? What if?

B

Yeah. I've always said OCD is a what if disorder. How has the phrase what if? Or its cousin. Yeah, but what if? Depending on whatever answer you get to the first what if? How have those phrases identified your life?

A

I would say, yeah, they have been Very present in various fear spirals. I think it's also, I found with OCD and fear spirals of what if? But then, like you said, it's been really uncomfortable for a lot of years. It was debilitating. And I've also found that finding practices to be. Be more grounded when those spirals happen has been. I don't want to say gift, because that sounds. I'm not trying to put a pot of positive on something so gnarly, but it's. It's been a relief and kind of a joy to be able to counteract that instinctive fear.

B

One thing that I hear a lot from people on the street, you know, because you could tell I'm quite a street person, but one thing I'll hear is, oh, you know, OCD to some people must be a superpower. That's why they're good at what they do. And. And, like, when I've interviewed Howie Mandel, he's like, ocd is the worst thing that's ever happened in my life. It's not a superpower in any means whatsoever. If there's anything I've gotten out of ocd, it's it. And I've heard people say it's. Learning that I could get through something has shown me that I can handle things better than I thought that I could.

A

Right, exactly. And.

B

And that's. Maybe the superpower is the ability to get through something not having it, and it. Because it doesn't make your life any better, I'm assuming, right. Yeah.

A

Yeah, exactly. I think that's it. It's. It's. You see that you're able to move through something. You see that you're capable of more than you think you are with time and with work. Yeah. You see that you can be resilient. You see that you can sit in discomfort, and the more that you sit in discomfort, the more capacity you have for it, and that can be very liberating. Yeah.

B

I'm assuming. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you know, once you put out a video that says you have ocd, you get other people who say, oh, I have a little ocd, too. How do you educate people on the difference between you check your garage door twice and the debilitating nature of what obsessive compulsive disorder really is.

A

Yeah. I think it's important to be clear that there is a amount of checking that is common, and there's a certain idea of tropes and colloquial language with saying OCD meaning something is clean. Or meaning you like things organized and it's important to make clear what it actually is and what it actually means. And yeah, like you said earlier, it's not something that's, like, helpful or you're just being prudent. It is. It is. Takes up a lot of time and it's not fun.

B

Before recognizing it as ocd, did you think it was something else or. Or what. What did you make. Did you have a label for it prior to recognizing the truth of OCD being it?

A

I don't think I had a label for it. I think I just thought it was me. I think I just thought I'm scared because of this and this and this, so therefore I have to do this. Or, like, it's just an annoying fact about me or something like that.

B

Yeah. Okay. Outside of, you know, like, whatever therapy things people have done, have there been things that have been helpful to you, like, you know, mindfulness or just learning how to sit in discomfort and uncertainty without having to have an answer? You know, how. How have those things contributed to you being able to now live more of the life you want to live instead of it being ruled by ocd? Being in the driver's seat.

A

I like that question. Yeah. I think that going towards discomfort is kind of a profound concept. It's very simple, but feels like the opposite of what your instincts are telling you to do. But can be such a relief. Like, if I think of, like, an internal feeling. This is something I was experiencing yesterday. It was like a physical tightness in my middle. And instead of distracting from it or just ignoring it or telling it to just be eradicated, to go away, to move towards it and kind of allow. To go through my whole body. I've been thinking lately of, like, the idea of figuring out how to dance with what scares you. And, yeah, it's. It's beautiful. And that's kind of the opportunity that this resistance or this. These compulsions or these. The clinging to illusion of control, the benefit of it is the opportunity to face discomfort.

B

I like that idea of dance because in a dance, typically, one person takes the lead and one person is the follower. OCD always wants to be in the lead. And I would see the goal is for you to be in the lead and not ocd.

A

Right.

B

But because OCD is always with you, you're always going to be dancing together.

A

Yeah.

B

But you can have an influence on who's in the lead.

A

Hmm. Yeah, I like that. That's. That's. That's nice.

B

The other thing I like to say is you can't run away from OCD because wherever you run to, your brain goes with you, so.

A

Very true.

B

Because if you get someone, your brain's not with you, you are dead. You're not.

A

You're gone.

B

And then.

A

Well, at that point, you don't have to deal with ocd.

B

Don't have to deal with OCD anymore. At that point, the dance is over.

A

Right?

B

The lights are out, the shoes are picked up. We're all good. Yeah, we're. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When you decided to finally put out information online about mental health and ocd, how did. How did, first of all, you decide to do that and then how did it feel to do, and what was the response from people when you finally did it?

A

I remember I made a video where I didn't name ocd. I did share compulsions. And I felt like it was, at least for me, I don't know if. Who knows how other people perceive you, but for me, it was kind of a shattering, A little bit of a projection that I had been trying to put out of, like, how maybe I would want to be perceived, which is maybe a little bit more freewheeling than the truth of having ocd. So I felt like it was honest and vulnerable in. To the capacity that I could be at that time. And then I reached out to nocd, to work with, to collaborate, and I think this was in the round, maybe 20, 22, to name that I had OCD. And that felt kind of like creepy in a way. But I think it's. Again, it was a moment of. Instead of avoiding what scares it scares you or makes you uncomfortable moving towards it. Yeah.

B

Yeah. That's awesome. What has been for you, do you think, the biggest turning point or breakthrough in your mental health experience?

A

I think there's just so many. I don't think I have one moment. I think it would have to just. It's forever ongoing. And I think it's just a, like, dedication and a, like, love for myself that's ever expanding to want to help myself and make myself feel genuinely good on a soul core level. Yeah. And that's ongoing.

B

Do people reach out to you and let you know that it's helped them do that too?

A

Yeah, they. They have. And it's. It's. It's. It's really meaningful. It's hard to even comprehend sometimes, but it's very meaningful. And it always. It just underlines the importance of being honest and being vulnerable and showing the multitudes of humanity that we all have. What a beautiful effect that can have.

B

And that I think we're acceptable for who we are as we are because I. That every once in a while a new thing pops in my head. So I've never asked this question or even thought this before. So you get to be the first one ever. OCD wants you to conform to its will and almost scares the shit out of you to not do it. Right. Because it tells you about how bad or awful, horrible will be if you go do anything other than the compulsion.

A

Yeah.

B

And with that knowledge of in order to be brave at first you must be afraid, meaning you must have that kind of feeling of, I've got a choice now. Do I do what OCD wants me to do and take what feels like the safe route or take this other route, which feels potentially risky but could have reward? There comes a point where everybody has to decide to not conform to what OCD wants in order to start that journey of healing and getting better. You. And I think everyone could look at you and say, you don't conform. Which is beautiful. Which I love. It is amazing. And I just, I think you've inspired me to think of it that way because you've taken what is kind of just the standard conformity of things and kind of turned it on its side and built a brand and a business and an identity around that. And it doesn't just reflect you as a person. I think it reflects how you've approached dealing with OCD also.

A

Well, that was kind of beautiful. Thank you for that. Um, yeah, I think that was because I do present like, I don't conform in a lot of ways. I don't conform. I think that's why there was. I had an uncomfortability with sharing my ocd because there is a real rigid. I have a real rigidness.

B

Yes.

A

Day to day life. Yes. And yeah, I am conforming to it all the time.

B

Right.

A

So. But I think that, that's why I think it's like it was important to share because there's so much more to everyone than what you just see, you know?

B

Right, yeah, yeah. Because OCD is invisible. Right. And no one would be able to look at anyone and just by just looking at them be like, oh, that person has ocd until they start really paying attention to the person. Like, are they stuck in what appears to be a loop? Cognitive loop? Maybe. Are they doing a repetitive behavior over and over again? Right. And maybe as we break loops, we break conforming to ocd.

A

Yeah, yeah, totally.

B

That was fun to think of that one. I like that. That's really cool. Write that one down, you know? Yeah, that. I don't know if you get that sometimes, but it just once in a while. Do you ever have that where something pops in your head and you're like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna write that one down. That's a. That's a good one. I'm gonna do that.

A

Totally. It's refreshing. It's exciting.

B

Oh, it is. The last one I had. Well, the last two I had was one of them. I said, already. We're not here to answer the question. We're here to help you live with it. And the one before that was the moment you attempt to be perfect, you've already failed.

A

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I was just writing something else that's been helpful in my mental health journey is I, like, write three pages when I wake up every day. And something I was writing this morning was, like, about perfection and how it just doesn't exist. Like, the word should actually be eradicated because it's not there.

B

Yeah. I've always said that perfect is an opinion

A

that's good.

B

You have your idea of what perfect is, and I have mine. But if perfect actually existed, restaurants would only serve one course because you would never go to a restaurant, say, you know, I'm thinking about the imperfect meal tonight, actually. That sounds really good. Right. So. So it would just be, here's the meal, because it's the perfect meal.

A

Right.

B

The problem, of course, is what if you're allergic to something in the perfect meal? Well, then, you know, so. Or to make it the perfect meal, maybe it's just air, because that's about all someone might not be allergic to. Is that right?

A

Totally different tastes. So no one's gonna like the same meal.

B

Yeah. Yeah. And going back to conformity, you know, I. I think sometimes people have this notion that conforming is perfect. I. I just read. I've been reading some George Orwell recently, you know, so I just finished 1984 or Animal Farm, and now I' 1984. And it's. It's just kind of fascinating how he looked at conformity and how it was the rule of law, and if you broke conformity, you. You destroyed society and. And all of these things and. And OCD almost sends a similar message. If you don't do what I tell you to do, really terrible things. Are hip. I liken it to. I don't know if you ever read the book. There's a monster at the end of this book. It was a Sesame street book, and it Was Grover telling you, don't turn the page because there's a monster at the end of the book. And of course, children are like, well, I'm gonna turn the page. And. And Grover's freaking out every page more and more until you get to the end. And then there's Grover, and he says, oh, I'm the monster at the end of the book. And. And I think that's what a lot of people with OCD kind of discover that they've been duped by something that's actually not that scary. But it sure presented itself that way.

A

Totally. That book sounds so profound.

B

Oh, it's amazing. Yes. Get a copy of it. It's. It's fantastic.

A

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true that that is ocd. It's like, what if, what if, what if? And then when you get there, you're like, oh, you know.

B

Yeah, yeah. There's people out there who are struggling with OCD right now. What's your advice for the them?

A

I would say try to find a therapist that you can do ERP with. I definitely found that traditional talk therapy was not helpful for ocd, so I genuinely suggest no CD therapy therapy. And honestly, like, it's not. It's not going to help with ocd, but it can't hurt your brain to write three pages when you wake up every day. I swear, I like it. It won't work for everyone, but it does something to me.

B

That's awesome. Well, Amelia, thank you for this conversation. I really appreciated you. You joining in today.

A

Yeah, this was so nice. Thank you so much.

B

Where can people find Amelia Farts at? Where can they go?

A

They can find me on Instagram. You can find me on TikTok all at Amelia Farts Instagram. Amelia Fart. TikTok. Amelia Fart on YouTube.

B

Amazing. And if you're looking for that and you're also looking for help for OCD, why not check out nocd@nocd.com. that's nocd.com where we have therapists standing by to work with you. Our care team is ready to take your call right now. And we take insurances and we just want to be there to help you get evidence based treatment called exposure and response prevention therapy. Our goal is you start living the life you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live. So go and be better to yourself than your OCD ever would be. We'll see you again for another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast soon. Thanks for listening.