A

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B

That's so fun to be here, guy.

A

Nice to see you. It's great to see you. And you were first on the show back in January of 2020. And as always, to anyone listening, we'll put a link to it in the show notes. It's a great episode. You started Happy family organics around 2003 when you realized it was really hard for parents to find good tasting organic baby food. And you became an advocate for improving nutrition and how children are fed in the US and then about a decade after launching the company, you sold it. And right around that time, your son was diagnosed with progressive autism. And since we last spoke, I know you've started another company for new parents and their young children. It's called Healthy Baby. Um, tell us a little bit more about it.

B

Yeah, well, I think along my journey and knowing so much about creating products for babies, I've learned that with autism and developmental health, there's just so much we can do to create a better environment for our growing babies. I think that as we are evolving as a society, we've been putting things into our bodies that weren't originally meant to be there. And so, yeah, Healthy Baby is a brand that creates the healthiest, safe, high performing products for new families. Our diapers are a kind of world class, really high quality, high performing, made with no chemicals of harm, which in today's world, there are so many that can actually harm your baby's nervous system. We pair the product with meaningful developmental content so that parents can feel regulated and calm and ultimately have a more connected, healthier life.

A

Yeah, I mean, what you're talking about, of course, there is a lot of momentum behind this. You know, I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first child, you know, in 2008, people were just starting to talk about BPA, you know, at that time. Now it's so mainstream. And I mean, the offerings haven't fully matched the momentum. Right. And so I guess that's the sort of the thinking behind Healthy Baby, which is, you know, you could develop a line of products that people can just trust. They don't even think about it. It's just they know that all these things are not in there. VOCs and parabens and phthalates and all those.

B

I know it sounds crazy, but, yeah, we have to innovate and we have to create better materials, and we have to make those materials without the use of these chemicals and other things that we've relied on for so many years. I mean, and I love being innovative. It's like a cool way to use design and new fabrics and new materials and find a better way to make something because you care and also because it needs to work.

A

Yeah.

B

And, you know, that's what makes for a good business. You can't just, like, care a lot and have a great mission and the product doesn't work.

A

Yeah. I mean, you've been through this rodeo. Once you've built a company, you know how hard it is to build, and the hardest thing is to build a brand. It's even harder now than when you started. Happy baby. It's easy. The barriers to entry are easier in some ways, but the brand building is so much harder because the. Our attention is just. It's. It's being divided. Right. By a million different things. So what is the ambition?

B

I mean, for me, I've already sold a business, and so the second time, a little bit of that pressure is off.

C

Right.

B

At the same token, I think having starting a business besides having a baby is the most creative thing you can do. And you can literally create a living, breathing work of art and guy. I mean, you've contributed to making entrepreneurship cool. Like when I went to business school, doing my best. Well, I went because I wanted to, like, have better tools in my toolbox so that one day I could start a business that was big and meaningful. And what was funny is I was like one of the few entrepreneurs. And at that time, everyone was an investment banker consultant. And I felt like the freak of the business school. And now more of the younger generation are realizing, hey, I'm not going to live that norm. And if that track isn't going to work, because the world is changing with tech. And I'm smart and I'm adaptive and I'm entrepreneurial, I'm going to find my way and let them find their way.

A

Yep, Absolutely. Shazi, I think we should Take advantage of your expertise and experience and bring on some callers and see if we can help them out. What do you say? You ready?

B

I'm always ready.

A

All right, let's bring in our first caller. Welcome to the advice line. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business.

C

Hey, guy. Hey, Shazzy. My name's Daisy and I'm calling from the uk. So I'm the daughter of the founder of Freet Barefoot. So we're a family run barefoot shoe brand with the mission to give people freedom for their feet by making shoes that allow natural movement with a focus on comfort and durability.

A

Awesome. Welcome to the show, Daisy. We've done several big shoe brands like on and Hoka on the show and a couple others. And I'm very familiar with barefoot running shoes. I don't use them as much anymore, but. But I still like them for exercise and working out. So tell me about how freak barefoot was started.

C

So it was started by my dad after he'd been suffering with knee pain. This is about 15 years ago. Someone introduced him to barefoot shoes and it just kind of completely changed the game for him and it seemed so simple. But allowing his feet to move naturally and move all the muscles within the foot meant stronger feet, which in turn meant less pressure on his knees. And he now often bows that his knees are better at 60 than they were at 40. So through that he started his own barefoot shoe brand, Freet, with my mum. And the name literally means freedom for free. So we make a range of products from barefoot hiking boots to barefoot leather sandals, trail running kids shoes, gym shoes. Kind of got quite a lot of SKUs now, as we've grown as a

A

brand and primarily you sell through shops or online now.

C

So when we started, we were primarily wholesale, especially, you know, in Europe, there's a really big barefoot shoe market. But as we've grown, I'd say that our D2C has grown a lot, and that is by pair sold. I think we sell about the Same wholesale and D2C, but D2C is the big profit driver for us now.

A

All right, tell me a little bit about your sales last year, for example. How'd you guys do?

C

So last year we did 2 million revenue in dollars, and that's across three regions. So that's UK, US, EU, but our biggest market currently is the UK, where we're kind of most well known.

A

Got it. And are you, Daisy, are you taking over the company from your dad?

C

Yeah. So that's the plan at the moment I've kind of come in as sales and marketing director because of my. The last 10 years, that's what I've done myself. But the plan is sort of from next year, I will take over the business full time with my dad still supporting on product side of things.

A

Got it. Okay, before we jump in your question, just a question for you, which is how do you guys position your shoes in a way that differentiates you from, you know, what, whatever else is out there?

C

So we're really well known within the industry for the level of comfort that our shoes have. We feel that that differentiates ourselves from other competitors who maybe call themselves barefoot, but maybe not truly wide fit as we are and will always be. I'd say the other thing is really our outdoor background. So my dad, big outdoors man. We're a big outdoors family. So our shoes, they're built for the outdoors. They're built to go hiking in and kind of have all of the comfort and the durability that people may not equate to barefoot shoes traditionally.

A

All right, cool. And tell us your question that you have for us.

C

Yes. So, Shazi, in your episode, you talked about a few of the key pivotal moments for growth for Happy Family Organics, which was so interesting. As I look to grow our brand in the US and have our own breakthrough moment, there are so many potential levers. So PR B2B expansion, digital influencers. How do you decide what to sort of truly prioritize in order to scale the business in the States?

A

All right, Shazi, I want to bring you in. Say hello to Daisy from freetbarefoot. First of all, before you answer the question, do you have any questions for Daisy?

B

Well, it's such a great market for children as well, and I'm just wondering, is there any science that you can leverage to kind of showcase how much proprioception or how many nerves or how much a compressed foot develops differently than a free one? Because I'm assuming that. I'm assuming the foot is really well designed by nature.

C

Yeah, exactly. There are so many muscles in our foot. And obviously, when you're wearing, especially little kids with little, little feet as they're growing, if you're not able to use that full function and all those muscles within the foot, your foot naturally becomes weaker and more reliant on kind of support through more traditional shoes. So definitely there's plenty of science to back up our brand and what we stand for.

B

As a parent, whenever someone tells you that there is a better way that actually supports your baby's developing body, your child's developing body. I feel like it's easier to kind of hook them given how crowded the space is in running. And I can't help it. I'm a baby person. But I think what I love about baby food or diapers is it's fmcg. So fast moving consumer goods. Remember, you know, as soon as my son would find a pair of shoes, if it was the right fit on Zappos, it was basically all I would ever do is every five months I would be buying the next half size up. And I could see that with your brand and your business. So you're getting their repeat purchase. I would think that that would be kind of a holy grail. I mean. Cause I would want you to have that Fm part of the cg.

A

I agree. I think that, you know, I'm looking at your website here, Daisy, and you know, I don't get the sense that you're leaning into the benefits of this. And there is research. I mean, obviously you want to be careful because you know, somebody can always say, hey, you know, you promised this and you didn't deliver. But there is research. And so you can position from the get go this idea maybe like the way humans were designed to move or the way we were supposed to walk. Because I think that's the key. I mean, part of even though there are other brands out there, it's still an educational, sort of educational led product. You're still educating people around this because a lot of people, even now, decades after this movement has started, are like, really? Don't you need cushioning? So I'm curious, have you used any marketing channels at all that have, that seemed to be working or worked or gave you sort of data that suggested that there was a return on that?

C

Yeah, so I use Meta ads and I use them in the US and I find a really good return on those and I really like tracking through that. So we obviously do organic social as well. But for me, yeah, the paid ads on Meta have been the best.

A

That's been the best. Okay, what else?

C

We use Google Ads. But again, it's not something that I see a huge return on investment with a lot of barefoot influencers within the U.S. so there's Anya, Anya's review. She's a really well known respected influencer so we've got a brilliant relationship with her.

A

Has she helped sales as she moves sales?

C

Yes. Yeah. And she has a code so we know that, you know, she's brilliant for kind of getting our brand out there. And we go to trade shows in the US and kind of we're trying to just make our presence more well known there.

A

And what about pr? You haven't tried PR yet, so we're

C

just starting pr actually we've just brought on a small team to help us with that from this month. So I'm really excited to see how that kind of has an impact. But it's brilliant to hear your and Shazzy's point of views on the angles that we should really be focusing on. So that's brilliant feedback to have.

B

Well, I also think, I don't know about you guy, but chat is like my best friend in terms of. I mean I just bought a house in Colorado because Chat identified the house and we bought so but if he can help me find. His name's Saul, my chat. But how are you findable on ChatGPT for the next generation of sort of search? Because what I've found, especially with Healthy Baby, is because we have so much science and I keep going back to it, but the science that is validated, third party with doctors and based with, with research, it tends to actually allow people to find us because Chat is identifying not just the product but also the work and the research and the science. So I'm wondering if you have like a chat strategy.

C

Yeah. So I went to a brilliant conference in the UK about AI recently and after that I went through our entire website and especially like the about pages and the technology pages and sustainability pages and made sure that they were optimized in a way that chatbots like ChatGPT can easily pick off information. We also, we use Shopify and through Shopify, I think there's a function that allows the chatbots to help shop through and kind of find our products through them. But yeah, I'm sure there's more that we could be doing.

B

I'm only saying it because there are a billion diaper brands and Healthy Baby shows up in chat as the safest or the cleanest one if you ask. I don't know if it's just doing it to appease me, but, but it is, it is the, the best new shopping tool I think and place for discovery when people start asking.

C

We recently, last month we were in a big UK national newspaper and voted like the most comfortable barefoot shoe brand. So I think having that backlink and having that has really kind of helped us be recommended within chat and it's, it's helped sales overall. Of course, having kind of a regarded publication say that.

A

So hopefully what was the publication?

C

The Guardian.

A

Yeah. Why isn't that on your front page? Name the most comfortable barefoot shoe by, you know, the Guardian.

C

Yeah, yeah.

A

Like right at the front.

C

Yeah, yeah. We do need to talk about it more.

A

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think that's something you should push. How is your, how are retention rates or reorder rates? I mean, do you have data around that?

C

Yeah, and it's good. And we often, we have people maybe come in through their kids and then the mother's looking for a good pair of shoes, their kids and then they buy their own pair. Or we get people who come in through definitely hiking and trail running. And then once they've got one pair of freats, that's it like they are now. Like, oh, do you do a sandal for my holiday? Do you do a gym shoe? You. Once someone's got one pair of frets, they become quite a loyal fan. There's not normally any going back.

A

In your case, it sounds like you've got strong retention, strong fan base. I mean, the value of repeat orders, especially in your case, is like infinitely higher than right now, than the customer acquisition costs. Because customer acquisition costs are high for everybody. That's just the way it is. They're very high right now. And you can use your existing customers as force multipliers. I see that you've got some testimonials on the site, but what about seeing if you can create user generated content? You know, have your, your fans show how they use the product and offer them a 20% discount coupon or 25% if they're willing to post it with a hashtag or something.

C

Yeah, yeah, that's really nice. We had, we did one piece of UGC recently and then I boosted that and it performed so well for us. We've almost sold out of that product in the US warehouse. So I think our, our customers and the people that like the brand want to see that authenticity coming through.

B

You know, now that you're investing in pr, know that if you don't leverage it, it's like, did a bear shit in the woods? Because that's a really great honor to say the most comfortable shoe. And now you're about to start getting all of these PR hits and I feel like in my prior life I've gotten such a ton of press and it's, it was more meaningful then in a purchasing decision making situation than it is now. So when you get the PR now you have to leverage it for the digital ad to make sure that it continues to live on because people see it Asynchronously Yeah, yeah. You know, it used to be like, if everyone's watching the Today show together, we are all going to learn about this baby food company. But it's not that way now. So you might be on the Today show, but you need to leverage the clip on all the time. So just be ready with your team to sort of make that a machine.

C

Yeah, that is fantastic advice. Need to leverage it a lot more, I think, than I have been.

A

Well, I think, I mean, listen, you got your marching orders, Daisy, so go forth. The brand is called Freak Barefoot. Good luck with that. Awesome. Congrats.

C

Thanks so much, guys.

A

Thank you. We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of of advice. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab. Before every interview I do, there's a mountain of material. Books, notes, transcripts, research. And the difference between a good conversation and a great one usually comes down to how well I've absorbed all that stuff. Lately, I've been using the new Kindle Scribe to do some of that work. It lets me read and annotate everything in one place, especially PDFs, so if my team and I are going through a founder's memoir, I can highlight key passages or jot notes in the margins and then quickly pull those insights back up when I'm preparing for the interview. What I like is that it still feels like writing on paper, but it's a lot more powerful. You can search your handwritten notes, organize them instantly, even clean them up into readable text, which means less time digging through notebooks and more time actually thinking. What are you working on? I'm working on the new Kindle Scribe. You may have heard the best voice in show business, Morgan Freeman, talking about a serious and underdiagnosed heart condition that's often missed. ATTR Cardiac amyloidosis, or attrcm. It's a condition that can greatly disrupt your life, with symptoms like severe fatigue, shortness of breath, and carpal tunnel. If left untreated, ATTRCM may become serious, leading to a shorter lifespan. Auby helps adults with ATTRCM live longer and have fewer hospitalizations due to heart issues, so you can focus more on living for what you love. Tell your doctor if you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant, or are breastfeeding, and about the medications you take. The most common side effects were mild and included diarrhea and abdominal pain. If you have attrcm, talk to your cardiologist about a truby and visit attruby.com podcast that's a T t r u b y to learn more. It's time to get busy living. Brought to you by Bridge Bio. Support for today's episode comes from Square. The easy way for business owners to take payments, book appointments, manage staff, and keep everything running in your business without running yourself into the ground. In my neighborhood, there's a shop that sells incredible locally made food, fresh breads, prepared meals, sauces, jams, all from producers within an hour's drive. And they use Square. And as a customer, I love the seamless payment, quick checkout, and easy receipts. Square's intuitive software and hardware simplifies everything you can sell anywhere in store, online or mobile, while managing inventory and tracking sales in real time. With Square, you get all the tools to run your business with none of the contracts or complexity. And why wait? Right now you can get up to $200 off square hardware@square.com. go bilt that's s q u a r e dot com. Go built. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is Shazi Vistram, founder of Happy Family Organics and healthy baby Shazi. You ready for another call?

B

Yes. Let's go.

A

All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

D

Hi, I'm Rachel. I'm calling from the greater Philadelphia area. I'm the co founder and CEO of Sprinkle Bites. And we make the world's first protein sprinkles in a single serve packet.

A

Wow.

B

Okay.

A

Welcome to the show, Rachel. I love that. Protein is protein is king. Protein has exploded. It's protein. Water, protein, gummies, protein. So protein sprinkles like sprinkles you put on ice cream?

D

Yep. Like Jimmy's.

A

Like Jimmy's. Right. And are they just the chocolate and then the colored ones, like the candy colored ones?

D

Right now we just have chocolate and blueberry.

A

And blueberry. Okay, cool. Oh, yeah. A lot of questions for you. How did this idea come about? I mean, you can put protein in almost anything but sprinkles? Who knew?

D

Well, my co founder and I are both full time working moms. We are very busy and we only get about two hours a day with our children and we don't want to spend those two hours fighting with them and negotiating with them on what to eat. And we just wanted to be happier with them in the little time that we had. So Nicole came up with this idea around sprinkles because she's Dutch. And in the Netherlands they eat 30 million pounds of sprinkles a year and they eat it on toast for breakfast. So we thought, well, why don't we use that as the Trojan horse and sneak in some function and protein and fill them up if they love eating sprinkles so much.

A

So this is something that I think a lot of people in the United States would find really weird. That. And it's also in Australia that they take bread and they spread it with butter and put sprinkles on it. It's called fairy bread. And I guess in the Netherlands they put chocolate sprinkles on bread and that's breakfast. So that's a thing, right? That's a thing. And that was sort of the inspiration behind this, behind starting this.

D

Exactly. If we can make sprinkles mainstream here in the States, it has to have a better for you angle to it. One in seven school age kids don't get enough protein. A lot of them are picky eaters. So it's really hard to get my kids to eat meat. And my middle1 has ADHD, so his medication suppresses his appetite. And making food fun helps with getting them eat in general, but also try new things. And what makes food fun? Sprinkles.

A

Yeah. All right, so 5 grams of protein. So a little bit less than an egg. By the way, how much do you have to eat to get 5 grams?

D

1 single serve packet.

A

I got you. Okay. And tell me a little bit about the. About sales. Right now you're selling direct to consumer only? Mainly, yes.

D

We launched our product in August. We are at of last year. Of last year? Yeah. We've surpassed 100,000 in sales since then.

A

Okay.

D

Since then. Yep. We've sold on our Shopify site with meta ads and then we launched in Thrive market in December. We got reorder in 30 days. So we were moving 88 pack boxes a week for 13 weeks straight.

A

Got it.

B

Okay.

A

Before we dive in further, what is your question for us?

B

Sure.

D

So as you know, in cpg it's very hard to manage cash flow and to get early traction. So should we consider private labeling to allow a larger retailer or larger brand establish our category of functional sprinkles on shelf and educate the consumers for us since that can be costly when you're trying to disrupt something and create a new category and then Sprinkle Bites enters as the premium brand on shelf later on. So I'd love to know your thoughts around this approach and what the pros and cons are. Should be all right.

A

Whether to enter private labeling. All right, I want to bring you on Shazi. Thoughts, ideas, questions for Rachel.

B

Wow. So much. Do they taste good? I just, I kind of want to try it and see if it works on my daughter. Well, I think this is, I think your question is a solid one. And I would just remind you that anybody who has a private label brand or any retailer, they're typically, you know, private label is typically a mass manufactured version of something they know that already sells well. And so, you know, I'm just immediately thinking of like Fruit Riot. Have you heard of Fruit Riot? It's like on fire right now. There was a, it was a kind of a TikTok trend of these grapes in like a sour candy shell. And actually now the founder and he, they commercialize the idea and it's such a TikTok thing. And I could see this being similar, but I don't see the owner of a private label brand doing that kind of creative storytelling and marketing to turn it into the thing you want it to be. And I'm not certain that doing that is so expensive anyway. And it sounds like you already have traction, so why would you give away the additional margin? And what product would you create for them that would be less premium? I feel like that's a lot of work to build someone else's potential business that might or might not care or keep it. Whereas you're really invested in your sprinkles being the sprinkles.

A

It's early days, but do you have any information about who's buying? Because oftentimes people start brands and they think, I'm selling this to people like me. You're probably thinking, oh, we're going to sell to moms and their kids are going to. Is that. Do you know if that's who's buying the product?

D

Most of them are moms between the ages 28 and 45 with young kids. The other surprise are bodybuilders and fitness communities, which we did not think would love a packet of 5 grams of protein. We thought they want more than that. Right. But the reality is every little bit counts and they're loving putting them on top of their Ninja Creamies, their protein ice cream. So like the fitness community loves us and then the GLP1 community you're using,

A

I look at your ingredients, you're using Monk fruit and Erythritol as sweeteners that does not spike insulin. Whole Foods sells it. So I don't think Whole Foods sells things with allulose, but they do sell things with erythritol. And so it has a high sweetness level, tastes good, but it doesn't have the same impact on blood sugar.

B

Correct.

D

We wanted to come out first with our MVP being sugar free. Diabetes is on the rise. We really wanted kids with diabetes to also enjoy sprinkles.

A

All right, so you're sort of trying to figure out whether it makes. I have a. I have. I agree with Shazi in general, but disagree also because, look, there are obvious pros to working with doing a private label. You're going to get immediate volume and then, I mean, it's cash, it's money right away, it's predictable and it's going to scale and it's going to help you negotiate better deals with your co manufacturer and it gets you more awareness. Right? I mean, basically people are like, oh, protein sprinkles. Okay. The downside is you then introduce your brand after people are buying, you know, the Trader Joe's protein sprinkles, right. Or the, you know, the Target brand, and they're like, oh, well, this one's cheaper, right? And what's the difference? So it's a huge risk. I mean, I think that most American kids eat sprinkles on ice cream. They don't eat sprinkles on toast. It's just not a thing here. So that requires some education to say, hey, here's how to use it. Put your sprinkles in yogurt, put your sprinkles on, you know, your breakfast cereal, whatever it might be. You're adding 5 grams of protein, right? That, that's. And the thing is, no one's doing this, right? I don't think there's any other protein sprinkles brands out there. And so, so it, that's those the cons, which is you don't want somebody else to have a private label. And then you come in and be like, oh, look at this, sprinkle bites. Just trying to jump on the bandwagon, right? And that's it, it's game over.

D

Yeah.

B

Well, also, you're right, guy, in one sense, that if you were able to find a private label contractor that wants a certain amount from you and you don't ever expect to be on shelf next to them, that could be a differentiating strategy. I'm almost thinking sort of launching it at Safeway, but selling it at Whole Foods and Amazon, I could see that it being two separate brands, I could see that sort of working. But to me, it seems like there's so much educating to do. What we ended up doing with our business, and I think why it became much more successful, is that we created an easier version of organic to consume. Something organic easier, and it made it more convenient and it was already something somebody wanted and you weren't trying to change their behavior. So, yeah, I mean, I do think that if you have someone that can order and create additional cash flow for you, it's probably worth considering it. But then at the same token, I wouldn't take the gas off of the educating.

A

Here's my idea. I got an idea. So, all right, how about instead of thinking about private label, which again, it's tempting because it's cash in hand, but it can really bite you in the butt, you know, in the next year or two or three or five. What about looking at brands that are in protein that you could mix this in with? Like Chobani has a protein yogurt. I mean, it's not easy to work with them because they're huge and you guys are tiny. But who knows? I mean, they might say, hey, you know what, this is interesting. You get 20 grams of protein in a Chobani yogurt, but you get a little packet of sprinkles and that's another five grams of protein. You just 25 grams of protein. Bam. That could be interesting. I would really see if you can lean in on that. And the other thing. And this is a totally out there idea, but I don't think it's actually out there too out there. You could call this a protein and fiber sprinkles. You could add chicory root powder to it and instantly you've got fiber and protein in your yogurt.

D

Yep, yep. So we're doing both. We're reformulating. Our vision is to sneak in the function, have sprinkles be the Trojan horse. So, yes, we have fiber added into sprinkles. We have superfoods in the sprinkles. We have different functionalities.

A

Spinach powder or whatever.

D

Yeah, it's amazing. Our matcha vanilla coming out soon. They're amazing. So we totally agree with you about adding fiber and adding other functionality. The other piece.

B

Yes.

D

In order to get the education, the brand awareness, the distribution. Right. Is to co brand exactly like you said. Some yogurt brands like Faye won't co brand. They won't put someone else's logo on their stuff. Fine. Buy us in bulk as an inclusion. I'm fine with that. Chobani. Yeah, it would be so cool. They do co brand and that would give us the credibility and trust as well, which is so important. So that's part of our growth strategy.

A

Protein pints. There's a protein brand of ice cream out there and it's just starting now. Makes perfect sense. It's easy. You can shove a lot of protein in something that's basically cream, milk and eggs. Right? So, Shazi, any last thoughts before we send Rachel off with her marching orders?

B

You know, I'm just, I'm excited to see you break through and we'll be looking at. Looking for it at Thrive.

A

Sprinkle bites. Rachel Cain, thanks for calling in. Good luck.

D

Thank you.

A

All right, we're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with one more caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. You know, the challenge I always had with Bitcoin was, well, how do you spend it, right? Bitcoin is often talked about as an investment, but it was built to be used with Cash App. You can actually do that. Send Bitcoin instantly, pay at local square businesses that accept it or move it to your own wallet whenever you want. It works like real money and less like something locked in an account for a limited time. New customers can get $10 added to their balance. Just use code CASHAPP10 when you sign up. And don't forget this part. Send at least $5 to a friend in the first two weeks. Terms apply. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners. Bitcoin services provided by Block Inc. Brand for additional information, see the bitcoin disclosures at Cash App legalpodcast. Every business is now asking the same question. How do we make AI work? For us, the possibilities are endless and guessing is too risky. But sitting on the sidelines is not an option because one thing is almost certain. Your competitors are already making their move. No more waiting. With Netsuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work. Today, NetSuite is the number one AI Cloud ERP trusted by over 43,000 businesses. It's a unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, commerce, HR and CRM into a single source of truth. That connected data is what makes your AI smarter. So it doesn't just guess. It knows how to automate routine tasks, deliver actionable insights, and help you cut costs. From software and IT services to healthcare equipment manufacturing, financial services, and many other great American industries, NetSuite delivers a customized solution for your business. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get their free business guide demystifying AI at netsuite.com bilt the guide is free to you at netsuite.com built netsuite.com built. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking your calls with Shazi Visram, founder of Happy Family Organics and Healthy Baby. So, Shazi, let's get back into it and take another call.

B

Fantastic.

E

Hi there, my name is Andrew Graff. I'm calling in today from Laguna Beach, California. I have worked on creating a pleasantly scented soil additive, a product that you can add to your soil, and when you water it, it releases a pleasant scent while also providing nutrients to your plant.

A

Cool. All right, welcome to the show, Andrew. So, so explain. These are. It's a additive, right?

E

It comes in a pellet form.

A

Okay.

E

And you apply it to your indoor or outdoor plant.

A

You mix it with the soil. You just sprinkle it on top.

E

Just sprinkle it on top. On top of the soil. And when you water it, it breaks down the biopolymer, which is made out of chitosin and sodium alginate. Ocean derived. And releases an essential oil. Currently, I have a lavender and lemon eucalyptus scent.

A

And this is because indoor plant. I'm just trying to think about. I've got a bunch of indoor plants. I can't remember them smelling bad. Do they smell bad?

E

Well, it's not about the plant smelling bad, but almost having a natural diffuser in your house instead of having a plug in or burning a candle, it's kind of a sensory experience that you're interacting with the plant. That's how I first started it. The idea first came to me while fertilizing my plants and I thought this could definitely smell better. And then I just went down the Google rabbit hole to see if there was anything like this, and I couldn't find anything. So I reached out to chemists to help me develop this idea and I even worked on obtaining a patent, which I got published. And yeah, so I'm in the early stages right now of testing it with friends and family and in my own garden, my own outdoor space. I work in residential real estate. And I can tell how the interaction of scent with perception of the environment really matters.

A

Yes. This is why when you walk into a Williams Sonoma, they Sell their scents. You can buy the Williams and Williams Sonoma scent or the Crate and Barrel scent. It's interesting. And you see this in. In a lot of stores. Okay, so you're a real estate agent. I love that. And clearly, I can now make the connection because you're showing people houses and you're like. And. And you. You know, there's all these sensory things, and they're in the house, and they're always staged, and. But then you've got the scent.

E

Right.

A

So. Okay, before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

E

So I'm at this early stage where I've worked on with the chemist developing the product. I've worked with a lawyer on obtaining the patent, with a manufacturer making my first batch, and also soil testing as well. All of this is proving to be costly, and I have some sales. I bring it as a host gift, and people end up buying it from me. But it's a very limited amount of sales, and it feels like a new category. So I'm trying to figure out how to if I should work on courting investors or if I should try to prove traction with retail or direct to consumer.

A

Got it. Okay. Shaz, I want to bring you in. You've been in this position before where, you know, you've got a new product and you bring investors. What do you do? Thoughts or questions for Andrew before we dive into his question?

B

It's fascinating to think of olfactory and plants and creating a deeper connection with nature. So I love that if you're really in this and you believe and it's your 100% thing, then you have to raise money from investors, and you kind of go big or go home is my feeling. I don't think you start this one on a bootstrappy, small way, because ultimately you want, like, Home Depot and you want to be an option at every store that sells gardening supplies, and you want to start in terrain. And I can just see, you know, I can see it becoming a craze and a phase. And now that you have the patent and the ability to produce it, I would find a way to test and get it to the place where it's a product that, you know people are going to love and want. So I don't know. That's my perspective is that if you want to go big with it, build a brand around it.

A

Yes.

B

And really launch it.

A

Yeah. Andrew, how much have you put in so far to this product?

E

I've put about 30,000 of my own capital into that, into the products of Our.

A

And I see on your website you are, it is for sale now. You can buy it through your website. Right, okay. But you haven't really officially launched. Is that the thing or what?

E

That's right. I really wanted to prove it worked. I wanted to test it with my friends and family. I wanted, I sent it off to a soil analytic lab just to make sure that it wasn't going to kill your plant. And it's, it's helping them and you know, we're going to get more concrete scientific data on that soon. But I guess I kind of had some imposter syndrome and I didn't want to launch because I don't come from this background, a biology background or I'm not a horticulturist. So I've been kind of nervous about launching this into the public because I just wanted more concrete data behind me before because I don't feel like I have authority right now on the matter of soil health.

A

Yeah, no, that's interesting. I mean, I think it's worth, definitely worth having somebody who, and clearly I know you worked with somebody who does have that expertise, maybe having somebody on the, you know, when you start to really push this out, talk about how it can actually improve your plans. I think your story as a real estate agent is interesting because you know what a great house looks like. I mean, you're staging houses for your clients. You know what makes it look good and you know, that part of that is how it smells. I think you're way too, too early to raise money. I mean, unless people want to give you money. Right. I just think it's too early. You have to, especially if you want money on your own terms and you want, and you want to, you know, maintain as much equity as possible. You've got to really launch it with what you can. And you want to track reorder rates, you want, you want to see customers posting about it. You want to see meaningful repeat demand. You want some unit economics. I think you want to have some data that you can go, even if it's six months to a year, that you can go to people and say, okay, hey, here's this thing. We've patented it. There's, you know, we've got a moat around it. I can see this in garden stores across the country. You know, it's an X billion dollar, multi billion dollar industry. Indoor house plants. I don't know what it is. It's got to be huge. And candles are this, you know, you know, diffusers are this. And so we see Huge opportunity here. But I think you do need some data before you can actually get money on your terms.

E

Right. So you think I should go out to retail shops in town, which I've started early outreach and they're interested. But again, I'm figuring out branding and all this costs money while also doing my day job. So I guess that's why I was interested in fundraising. But. But I do believe I have enough inventory to at least get it onto some shelves and maybe prove the product first.

A

Even if you can go to one store and you have data from one store, right? And you can stand there on a Saturday and give out little packets, sample packets of it and say, hey, go sprinkle this on your plant and just go home and just try it. And then you get some data from that store after three to six months.

E

Right.

B

But it is an opportunity to test and learn your messaging and your. You'll improve and develop the brand if you're open to testing and learning with your sort of pilot partner. And you know, in general, fragrance is a black box. Like you don't have to share your ingredients with anyone. And I find fragrances to be really. I have a reaction, I don't know, it's just my neurology, but I have a reaction to most fragrances. And so if I walk into the department store, I get a headache right away. And I think there is a really large population of people, especially just the folks who love ewg. For instance, Environmental Working Group, if you had the first EWG verified soil additive, that could be a unique angle because you're also saying, hey, you don't need to buy the candle. There's no plastic, there's no petroleum, there's no so many other things that go into the production of the plug in or whatever the case might be. It's a cleaner alternative. And also to have a fragrance garden is really hard. I've tried jasmine and all the things to plant and sometimes I'm lucky. But it'd be nice to have a consistently beautiful, fragrant garden.

E

My friends have been using this and whenever I walk into their house, this whiff of the lemon eucalyptus comes through and I just smile. And it's not overwhelming because I do know that people have of sensitivities. So it's just kind of a pleasant scent that fills the space while also benefiting your plant as well in the soil health.

A

Yeah, it's really an interesting idea and I think you've got something here. But you gotta test and learn. Test and learn, Andrew.

B

Test and learn. And Then call Martha Stewart.

A

Yeah, exactly.

B

Yeah.

A

Plantamica is the brand. Andrew, good luck. Thanks for calling in, man.

E

Thank you, guys.

A

Yeah, yeah. Cheers. Shazi, looking back, I mean, you are now in your second startup and looking back on your time building happy family. What do you wish you had known back then? What do you know now that you didn't know when you were first starting out that actually is helpful for you?

B

I think there's a certain sense of earned confidence, but I'm not sure that you can know it without earning it. And I also think that every venture is a new venture and it's scary when someone expects you to put lightning in a bottle. Twice that pressure still there, you know, it's happy with such a huge, meaningful and like, momentous success story. And it's difficult to recreate, but of course I'm committed. But it's I think too, just being enjoying where you are in the moment without considering every single outcome actually allows you to enjoy the process. I mean, I miss, I'm sure everybody who comes on the show is like, I really miss that time. I miss that time when we were broke. I miss that time when we couldn't pay payroll. I miss the feeling of being so, like, low and then leveraging your own human creativity to find a way out and win is a really fun thing to do. And I think, like, it's not earned confidence, but it's like a belief in myself that whatever it is, I'm gonna figure it out.

A

Yeah.

B

If I care, I'll figure it out.

A

That's Shazi Visram, founder of Happy Family Organics and Healthy Baby Shazi. Thanks so much.

B

It was so fun to be here.

A

It was great having you. By the way, if you haven't heard Shazi's original How I Built this episode, we will put a link to it in the show notes. You gotta go check it out. It's a really great story. And here's one of my favorite moments

B

from that interview we launched with. I mean, must be at least like a thousand demos you would go and demo.

A

Okay.

B

Yeah.

A

What would you do?

B

So you have like a table and you put down as much as you can to make it look nice and warm and fuzzy. And I'm standing there with a Happy baby T shirt on and you're trying to get people to sample these, like yummy foods that I'm thinking, I'm so proud of this. This has taken years to make this, you know, and you're standing there waiting for someone to come and then barely anybody comes and on the third time that I did a demo I realized that this wasn't going to work.

A

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free@guyraz.com or on substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues you are currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo@hibtid.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And by the way, we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella, and our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our production team at How I Built this also includes Alex Chung, Karla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris masini, Elaine Coates, J.C. howard, Katherine Cipher, Kerry Thompson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on How I Built this Lab.