Leaning Into Peace Amid Grief with Bethany Wohrle

A

Welcome back to the Lead Worship well podcast. My name is Stuart, and I'm honored to be your host for this episode with Bethany Wehrle. We get to hear about her debut solo album. After years of writing and leading all over the world with Bethel Music and the story of the Lord's faithfulness that led to it, we talk about finding purpose and promise in the midst of our pain, the presence and goodness of God in the midst of suffering, and the power of the truth of Scripture and a history with the Lord. I pray today's conversation encourages. Encourages you. Bethany, thank you so much for sitting down with us for a little bit. Congratulations on your upcoming project. That's super exciting.

B

This is.

A

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this your first solo project?

B

It is my debut solo project.

A

Amazing. So you've been with Bethel Music since around, I think, 2018. If I remember correctly, you've been writing with them for a while. So talk about the differences and how it feels to kind of take a step out and release your first solo project.

B

Yeah, I mean, I. So I did ministry school at Bethel in 2010. So I, like, I was talking with somebody the other day, and they were like, you, like, grew up at Bethel? And I was like, you know, I was like, my entire young adulthood was a young adult to, like, ministry and marriage. And, like, didn't. We didn't have kids in California, but, like, my. I grew up in California. I grew up in Bethel. And so I think, you know, starting out with Bethel Music, my first trip ever was to Asia, which is so fun because we just went back to Asia in March. So literally, like, four or five weeks ago.

A

Oh, wow.

B

And so my first trip ever was to Asia, and I got a call from Jen two weeks before that happened, and she was like, can you go to Asia? And I was like, yes. Like, the clouds parted. And I was like, I'll do whatever it takes. But so just leading, you know, like, that was right when no Longer Slaves came out. Like, that was when.

A

What an album.

B

I love it, dude. I know. And singing that song in Asia was, like, a marking moment for me. That was pretty wild. But I have been with Bethel Music for a long time and have grown up in the environment. I've seen it. Like, I was, like, a part of Bethel Church and Bethel Music before it was Bethel Music. I mean, that's 2010, I think, was when the Be Lifted High album came out. And I remember, like, being in the room when they recorded that, and it was just like, oh, we're Gonna do some worship and, you know, see what happens. And now it is what it is. So it's honestly been. It's an honor to have been a part of Bethel Church from that moment to now and seeing just how the Lord has used Bethel music. So I'm super excited for the project because I feel like I've grown. Also, if you hear trains, it's because we live really close to train tracks. I don't know if you're gonn able to hear it, but if it's like, whoa.

A

But I used to have to crate my dog every interview because he would love to bark at people going through the hallway, I was like, we can't be doing that during. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, exactly.

B

But so being a part of Bethel music from, you know, the outsider perspective and now being an artist, being a part of the roster, writing songs for, you know, these projects and singing on the collaborative albums has been really fun and exciting. And I think that me doing my own album, it's been a long time coming. People are like, when are you gonna release an album? Like, when are you gonna do something? And I think that, honestly, there's been ebbs and flows with the timing of it, and there's been. I mean, it's happening now, and I feel like it's very much so the Lord's timing. If it were to happen two years ago, three years ago, it would have been for other reasons outside of, like, this is for the Lord. This is for a very specific purpose. And so I'm very excited and feel like I've had a lot of people that are like, are you so excited? And I'm like, I am excited, but, like, I've sat with these songs now for two, three, four years now, and they're ministering to me personally in a very different way than when I even first wrote them. So I'm very excited for it.

A

That's awesome. I love to hear that. I actually kind of wanted to ask a little bit about that because obviously there's a difference sometimes between when you're writing music versus writing kind of like for the corporate, meant to be sung on a Sunday morning church environment. And then sometimes, like, you know, one thing I love about, like, personal projects is, like, you're able to get a little bit more personal to, like, your walk with the Lord and how the Lord's been speaking to you personally. Can you talk a little bit about how that transition was like for you in regards to writing and what it was like for this project to write from a much More personal place. Place as opposed to kind of like a corporate. For the church.

B

Yeah. Honestly, when I first started writing for this project, it actually was more like, I'm gonna write like all these songs for the church. Like, I'm a. And I say this with like zero stuff behind what I'm about to say. I am a worship leader. I don't. I feel like I would not necessarily consider myself like an artist and going after a very specific sound. I lead worship for a living. Like, that's what I do. And so in my brain I'm like, oh, I'm a worship leader. I'm going to write worship songs for the church because I want to be able to sing these songs at church. I want churches to be able to lead them for, you know, Sunday mornings or, you know, worship nights. And so initially when I first started thinking about this project, I was like, oh, that's what it's going to be. And then my family experienced some trauma, which we can, we can open that box in a second. But it definitely shifted the way that this project kind of moved towards. It moved towards the faithfulness of God. It moved towards, you know, walking through tragedy and walking through grief. And, you know, how do I write a song in this moment where I feel like I'm frustrated, I'm angry at the Lord, I, you know, the what ifs and the why didn't you? Or like, how can I worship past this point? And so I think that there's a lot that have kind of gone into these songs on a deeper level, but they are still Sunday morning songs. My biggest thing, and we can get into the story behind some of these songs in just a second. But I think the biggest thing to give preface was I don't want these songs to be full of grief and full of sadness. These songs are hope filled. And that's my prayer, is that these songs would point people to Jesus, point people to the hope that's on the other side of what they might be experiencing. Maybe they are already on the other side of, you know, what they have experienced in the past. And so I think with this project in whole, I don't even know if. If I can share this or not, but I'm going to, because why not? But the, the album title is called Reason that I Sing. And a lot of these songs, it's come from a place of, okay, now there's a testimony that I can step into. It's like, I've walked through all of this stuff and I've walked through, you know, all of These things and now I'm the other side of it and I mean I'm on the other side of it. We're always going to walk through things. But yeah, a lot of it is the testimonies and the faithfulness that I've seen the Lord do in my life. And I'm still walking through, of course. But, but yeah, these songs are very hope filled but they have a process that they, they came with.

A

I love that. I mean I've seen that as well in my, my own life that usually the hope and like the face. My personal faith in God has grown over the years. As I go through trials or as I go through rough times in my life, it's almost like sometimes I have to learn to have a little bit of gratitude for those because they put in context just how good God can actually be. It's easy to trust God when everything's easy. And it's having those experiences where like I don't have a choice. I have to trust him in this moment. And it's amazing to me how God consistently shows up and exceedingly more powerful ways when I'm in those moments. You mentioned, you know, some, some of the stuff that your family has, has gone through. You released a really powerful conversation between you and your sister Lizzie on YouTube and I got to watch that last week in, in prepping for our conversation and I one I just wanted to say thank you for, for sharing that and for having that conversation. It was exceedingly powerful and moving to watch and to kind of learn the story of where this project kind of came from. But I was curious for you, how was that experience like to be able to have such a hope filled conversation with your sister after, after everything and like in preparation for this, for this project.

B

So sitting down and talking with my sister was something that actually felt really important for me to do. We. Gosh, a couple years ago, so when I wrote there's two songs specifically on this project that I wrote right after everything happened with my sister and brother in law, my niece passed in February and I had a write my first writing camp for specifically for this project. It's like, hey, this project is happening. We're gonna start writing for it. You know, start you know, thinking through what you wanna write about. And then you know, my niece unexpectedly passed and I remember thinking I should cancel this trip. I should not go like this. It was like four or five weeks after it had happened and my sister and brother in law were living with us at the time. And I remember thinking how in the world Because I mentioned earlier, I'm like, in my brain, I was like, these are gonna be, like, corporate worship songs. We're gonna sing these songs. You know, we're gonna dance for joy and all these things. And I remember thinking, like, how am I gonna write worship songs? And, like, love on the Lord? When I just experienced this really traumatic and really sad thing. And I remember talking with Chris, and he was like, no, you should go. Like, you should definitely go and do this. This is really important. And he was like, and if you don't get any songs out of it, then that's absolutely fine. Like, at least you went. And at least you. You know, you kind of got out of a place of maybe funk or gotten out of a place of Lord. Like, why? Why? And asking questions. But I went, and two of the songs that I wrote that week are on this project. And I have never experienced the Lord in a writing room as I did in these. These rites. I was prayed over. I was prophesied over. We recorded prayers to my. My family. And like. Like, writers that I literally had never written with before were praying over me in the writing rooms. And I was like, man, like, this is the way that you go into. You know, this is how a song should be written. Like, praying, prophesying, like, declaring things before any lyrics are even written and before you, like, get down to business kind of deal. And so coming back to the conversation with my sister, I remember showing her those songs, and, you know, we both were kind of in tears listening to the songs, and sorry might cry. She told me she was like, beth, I. I want. I want Juni's story to be shared, like, all over the world. Like, she has brought me closer to Jesus. Like, she has brought me on a deeper level with my family. And, like, you know, a lot of. And this is what we talk about a lot in the video is, like, it can either shape you or it can break you. And we've seen it time and time again. Like, losing a child can. I mean it. Like, we see divorce happen because of that. Because you just lose yourself and you don't find yourself or, like, re. You know, get yourself back to. And realign with heaven and realign with the Lord. Post something like that happening. And I remember listening to these songs with my sister right after we got back, and I had told her, I was like, I never. If. If these songs just stay here and they never go anywhere else, that is more. More than fine. I never want to use your trauma and your grief. Yes, it's mine, too, but it's very different. I never want to use somebody losing their life so that I can gain from that. And so it was really, really, really important for me and her to sit down and have this conversation because they want to share her story. They want these songs to help people and bless people. And so she was like. It was. It's really important for me to be able to share these things because it's not to push me as an artist forward. It's not to. It is solely to move people closer to Jesus who have walked that fine line of heaven and hell, literally. And so that conversation was really important. It was definitely challenging. But I think as time has gone on. It's been three years now, as time has gone on, you know, there are hard days and there are easy days, but I think that walking through something so, so sad and so traumatic and painful, I think that I have learned so much more about the faithfulness of the Lord and I have pulled on those experiences in my own life. Walking through, you know, like having kids of my own. I've got two little boys, I've got a almost four year old and an almost one year old. I am in the thick of it right now, writing songs, you're playing zone defense 100%. And so like I mentioned earlier, you know, these songs are ministering to me in a whole new way now. You know, years down the road and you know, walking through my own, like fearful moments with my own kids. Our, our older son, he's been walking through fear of going to bed at night. And I know that some of it is, you know, like developmental, you know, he's, his body's changing, you know, mentally. He's learning more. He's like, oh, I'm more aware that like when the lights go out, oh, I feel scared. Why do I feel scared? And he's not sleeping well. And so like walking through even those little, littler things where it's like, I know that this is going to pass. I know that we're not going to live in this moment forever with our, you know, four year old. But he's scared. He's terrified. Okay, Lord, what do I do? And listening to these songs, I'm like listening through like mixes and mastering is actually happening today for. And you know, walking through my own things, I'm like, wow, Lord, like, it's pretty wild how, you know, these songs were written for something else, you know, or towards something else, but are actually ministering to me and at a completely different angle. It's like when you read a scripture and it's like, oh, you, you read this scripture as a kid growing up, and you thought it meant this thing, but then your eyes are opened up to, like, something brand new. I mean, it feels, not that I'm, my, my songs in scripture are not the same thing. That's, I'm not trying say that, but

A

I, I, I really appreciate, no, I, I really appreciate your sharing there because I, I, I've, I've seen the same in my own life, like, in, in a different way. It's, you know, sometimes, especially as you're writing songs, it can almost function as kind of like a journal sometimes of where you were at in the moment. And then years down the line, it takes on a whole new meaning when you look back at, like, the, you know, faithfulness of the Lord. You know, like in scripture, when the Israelites raised ebenezers like the, the, the rocks to recognize the goodness of the Lord, what the Lord had brought them through. You know, in the same way, we can do the same of, like, have like, these marking moments of, like, remembering what the Lord has done. I mean, like, for me, I went through really strong and intense battles with mental health years ago. I remember hearing one time the scripture of Jeremiah 17:14 being read, and it's just, heal me, oh Lord, and I will be healed. Save me and I will be saved, for you are my praise. And that scripture became almost like a war prayer for me. Like, when my mind would start to, like, attack me or when I would, you know, start to struggle, I would just, like, pray that over and over and over and over again. And now, you know, years later, seeing how the faithfulness of the Lord has changed my life in that area, like, that is, it's like a prayer of gratitude now. Like, I was praying it, hoping it would be true, and now I can pray that saying. Like, I know it is, because you have.

B

Yeah.

A

And that's, I mean, for me, that's one of the things, like, from that, that YouTube conversation that was really, it was almost like there was like an under undertone of, like, gratitude to the Lord that, like, permeated that whole conversation, which I just think is so, so powerful. And one of the moments that you mentioned that really stuck out to me. You mentioned having this, like, this moment where faith just felt so real to you. And, like, you're like, where is this faith coming from? But, like, I, like, it was like, can you speak to that a little bit of what that experience, like, that experience of faith was like for you?

B

Yeah. I mean, even you talking about it makes me teary eyed. I think that in the conversation with my sister, I was the first person at my sister's house. I would literally watch the paramedics walk up their apartment stairs. And so, you know, when you experience that type of like adrenaline, it's like everything else is like completely gone. Everything is gone. And so I get upstairs and I grab my sister and I'm like, the Lord's gonna do a miracle. Like, I have chills even thinking about, you know, that moment. And I truly believed in that moment that we were gonna see the Lord bring her back to life. And I've seen the Lord do wild things. Like, I've seen the Lord do things on, you know, Bethel Music, like tour nights and worship nights. And I've seen like I just met somebody or like re met somebody a couple weeks ago at an event that I did. And they were like, you prophesied over us. We came to worship school in Reading last year or two, I guess it was two years ago, three years ago. And they were like, you gave us a word and I don't know if you knew this, but we were debating on whether or not we wanted to start having kids and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they like showed me and I got to meet their two year old son. They were, they literally like had like a word from the Lord. I mean, it wasn't from me, it was from the Lord through me. But like, I've watched the Lord do things like that in my life and through me and like through, you know, worship moments and through church. But I think experiencing that like faith filled moment, it was like electricity. I mean, it was literally like heaven is. Has never been closer. And one of the songs on the project is called so Close. And it's literally talking about heaven is so close in these moments, you know, experiencing, you know, all of this stuff. But that faith for me, I don't know how people walk through stuff like this and they don't have Jesus. I'm like, lord, I couldn't do this alone. Like, I would be absolutely broken. But that faith moment for me, I try to walk that out as much as I possibly can. Obviously there's going to be moments where I forget, but that is, that is. It's like, have you seen Inside Out? I love the Court.

A

It makes me cry every time.

B

Oh, every single time. But that's like a faith like monument core memory for me. This, that moment with my sister, I was holding my sister and I remember thinking, we're gonna see this happen. Like, I Have tears and I'm, like, shaking because I, like, feel heaven in this moment. And I know that the Lord is here. And something that my sister said, I think we talked about it in the interview, but I remember, you know, after all of this had happened, and I remember her saying, junie saw the face of God and she just had to choose him. Like, how can you not choose him? And so I'm like, those moments, for me, I'm like, I have to choose him. How could I not choose Him? I've seen way too much of his goodness, and I've lived so many of these things. You know, I've watched the Lord show up in ways that I've never. Like, that man can't explain. And so how could I not choose him? So that faith moment for me is a core spiritual, like, monument that is, like, gonna be planted in my life for forever. Yeah.

A

Thank you for talking about that, man. What I've so appreciated is it's recontextualized. Like, the songs that you've already released. We're recording this before the album comes out, but you've already released He's Here. And that's how I know and just. I think it just speaks to the powerfulness of God, like, that you're able to release these songs and sing, like, that's how I know that the Lord is good. It's to me, man, that has really spoken to me over the last week as I've been preparing for this conversation. It's just like, to see the faithfulness of God play out in that way. To go from three, four years ago, what you went through to writing and releasing a song saying, and that's how I know that the Lord is good. That is a powerful, powerful testimony. Can you talk a little bit about why you chose those two songs specifically to kind of intro the release and intro the project? Like, why those were the two that you wanted to release early?

B

Yeah, I think that's how I know is when we were talking through, like, first releases, that one definitely felt very hope filled. I want people to know that this project is not a woe is me. I've walked through all of this stuff. But it's actually the hope side of things. It's like, man, I might have walked through this. Like, David walks through all kinds of stuff. And you see it throughout the Psalms, and you see it like his, you know, stories are up here, and then he's down here, and then he's up here, and then he's down here. And I think that I really Wanted to make sure that people knew that these are going to be hope filled songs, that God is good and that, like, his specifically with he is here. I had something yesterday and I was like, like, I the moment that that song was written. And that one is actually the newest song of all of these ones. I believe when I wrote that one, I was like, this one has to go on the project. Oh, my gosh. Like, this is one that I'm like, I feel like, giddy thinking about, like, singing this song at church. We're actually leading it on June 7th at Legacy.

A

Oh, okay. Well, I am, so you gotta be there. Yeah, I'm not missing June 7th.

B

Yeah, right. But I knew that I wanted to release that one first because of how hope filled it is. It kind of just helps set up the project for, like, just a little bit of that, like, anticipation and then he is here. I think it was kind of coming back to, I'm a worship leader at heart. This song is gonna be one of those ones for me that I'm gonna sing everywhere that I go. I want to sing this song at church. I actually just sang it at a conference that I did last weekend and I'm like, like, I can't wait to lead this song. Every single time that I lead worship. Because it's fun. It directs people directly to the Lord. It's not necessarily talking about, like, my process with the Lord along the way. It's like completely vertical, like, 100% to him. But I think, you know, tying it into the project. It's like when. When we're asking for the Lord to show up, he does come. You know, he is in the room. He is. And actually Lyle and I think it was Elijah Lamb. They did a podcast and they were talking about, like, when the Lord is in the room. People associate that with a feeling. But when we show up to church and when we, like before, like, worship even starts, the Lord is in the room because we're. We show up, we're there. And so I think that, you know, this song or he is here. For me, it was really important that that was one of the next songs because it's for the church. And I think kind of like grabbing a hold of people that are like, okay, I need some help. And, like, putting that with church together, I'm like, okay, Lord. Like, I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I don't think that there was like a ton of, like, very strategic, but it was just like, man, I really want people to know that this project is about like hope filled faithfulness and that the Lord is good. And then also, like when we ask him to and when we need things, he shows up.

A

Oh, that's so good. I love the idea of continuing to sing truth over our circumstances. Like, regardless of how I may be feeling at the moment, regardless of what the circumstances in my life look like, I can show up to church, to the gathering, and I can point to scripture and say, no. God said that when two or more gathered in my name, I will be in their presence. And so it's like, well, of course I'm going to show up to church and God is going to be present there. He promised he would be. And do I trust my feelings or do I trust God's promises? And for me, in the same vein of when I've been going through my own struggles in my own life, it's those things that I can cling to. For me, how I've been able to get through some of those seasons of my life is because I can trust the Lord is good, because he says he is. He's proven himself to be and he will prove himself to be again. My current circumstances don't define the goodness of God.

B

Yeah, that's a word right there.

A

I often ask this question, but specifically for you. You've been leading worship for years and years, and you were continuing to lead worship and to serve in the church throughout this season of your life and throughout this project. I wanted to ask, how have you personally handled that tension of sometimes, maybe even feeling like I feel like I'm being called to lead people to a place that I'm not even at yet.

B

Yeah.

A

How have you handled that as a worship leader?

B

Yeah, man. I'll start with this. When Benny Johnson, Bill Johnson's wife, when she passed, for me, as a worship leader, as a worship pastor, as someone who is leading a room, leading people to Jesus, Sunday morning, leading worship is not for me. Yes, there are. There are moments where, you know, the Lord does something for me on a Sunday morning as I'm leading a song. But I think something that's really important is to know that that Sunday morning is just an overflow of what happened throughout the week with the Lord. But I. But coming back to first point is, you know, walking through what I've walked through. And Bill Johnson says that, or he said this, and it changed my whole life. When Benny passed, he had talked about how in this moment, this is the only time on earth that we can give the Lord this type of worship in complete and utter sadness. In grief, in pain. And, you know, this is the only time that we can give this to the lor while we're here on Earth. Because when we're in heaven, you know, we're not going to experience, you know, these. These tragedies. We're not going to experience grief. We're not going to experience pain. So this is the only time that we can give a sacrifice of praise.

A

Wow.

B

And so I think that that is really important, you know, when walking through things, because I've had people ask me, like, how did you get up and lead worship? You know, less than a month later, after all of this happened. And honestly, it lit a fire underneath me. I was. I. It brought me closer to the Lord. I. It makes me want the enemy to just crumble underneath this. You know, the platform, the stage, like, where.

A

Amen.

B

I'm like, you see, when. If you ever watch me lead worship, I cannot sit still. I've always been that way. People ask me if I want a mic stand, and I do, but I never use it because I'm moving all the time. I literally will go to churches and go to places and they're like, okay, we put a mic stand. And I'm like, I probably won't use it, but I like, other than to put my mic on so that I can, like, take a sip of water. But it honestly has lit a fire inside of me that just makes leading worship and makes singing these songs so much more real because I've lived through what I'm singing. And I think for, you know, some younger worship leaders, if I were to give any advice, or not even give advice, but just history with the Lord will come while you're leading worship. Brian Johnson told me one time, he was like, any opportunity that you get to lead worship, say yes to it. Any opportunity, if it's singing with you and a piano in a room of 20 people at midnight for, like, a prayer room, do it. Say yes. Obviously, there's going to be times where you can't say yes all the time. And you don't want to burn out, you know, but you're gonna. You're gonna learn history with the Lord. You're gonna dig wells with him while you're leading worship. And I also had another worship leader who told me this one time, I remember being so frustrated that I was singing the same song every single time. And people ask me a lot. They're like, do you ever get bored of singing Living Hope? Do you ever get bored of singing All Hail King Jesus? And I'm like, actually, no, I feel like I. I mean, there was a. There were moments in time where I'm like, oh, again. But I think that there's something so powerful about when you experience a song on a different level or you read a scripture and you're like, somebody reads it to you and you're like, I've never thought of it that way before. That's crazy. Like, and it opens something new. I think leading these songs over and over again has done that for me, and it's. It's lit a fire underneath me to continue to sing these songs more and more. But I think for me, with. With. Your original question is, this is the only time that we can give the Lord a sacrifice of praise, so I'm gonna lead worship as hard as I can lead worship again. It's not for me, it's for him, and it's to bring people into the presence of God. But I think that there's something very powerful about stepping into that sacrifice of praise.

A

What a wealth of knowledge that was. Wow. Thank you. That was so, so good. A lot of wisdom in there. I've heard it said, too, in similar vein of, like, worshiping through our grief and our pain here on earth is something that not even the angels ever get to do. Like, we have the opportunity to bring that type of. I'm like, that was, like, mind blowing to me when someone said that.

B

Literally one of the lyrics of my songs.

A

It's just like, you know, I remember hearing that for the first time in that season. It gave me a boldness to, like, to sing, like, in the same way of, like, you know, you were talking about with your story. Like, it gave me a boldness to sing of, like, I'm not going to waste this opportunity to give God the praise that costs me. And, man, that's so, so good. Well, Bethany, thank you so, so much for taking the time to have a little conversation. Congratulations on your first. First project. That's super exciting. When does it come out again?

B

July 10th.

A

July 10th.

B

Yep.

A

Amazing. I cannot wait. I'll be a day one listener. But thank you so much for being on the podcast and for sharing some of your story and wisdom with us, and look forward to seeing you at church sometime.

B

Yes. Yeah.

A

Right.

B

Thank you so much.

A

Absolutely.