A

Foreign. Worship. Well, podcast. I'm your host, Chris Cootie. You know, one of the greatest gifts a worship leader can receive is time with someone who has gone before them, someone who has navigated the calling of worship, pastor, the pressures, the longevity, and is still standing through it all. Those conversations are rare, and when they happen, they change you. Today, we get to have one of those conversations. 40 years as an artist, 36 number ones, three Grammys, and still releasing music for the church. His most recent hymn of Communion, is out. Right now, we're talking about going the distance, how worship isn't just music. It's a way of life. How you hold family, faith, and a calling like this together over a lifetime, and what it actually looks like to stay wholehearted. This is Michael W. Smith. Michael W. Smith. I just want to start out the gate. You've been doing this for over four decades. I just want to know from a ministry perspective, what has this kind of lasting ministry legacy cost you? How. What does it cost a person like you to go the distance in ministry? Maybe stuff that you really haven't pulled back the curtain on. For the younger worship leader listening, what is the cost of decades in ministry?

B

You know, that's a good question. I wouldn't say my family, because I've really kind of kept my family at the forefront of being the most important thing in my life. You know, I've never let anything get in the way of that. Maybe it's some other things that I could have done, and I could have been maybe more successful at doing other ventures and things like that. And I've said no to a lot of those things. I never regretted it. But, you know, could I have thrived more and made more money? Yeah, maybe. But you know what? That's. I never did this for the money, you know, and I think probably just on a spiritual level, it's just, you know, you just die to yourself. I mean, it's just you don't give into the worldly pleasures of life. And as you get older, you learn more about that, that it's not about you, but it's a calling. That's what it is. And you either go be true to the calling or not. And, I mean, I had no idea that I would be having this conversation with you four decades later, you know, or 43 years later. So to me, this is all a gift, and I feel like my best days are ahead, believe it or not. So.

A

So even through that, and I just, I. I told you earlier, before we recorded the generational kind of leader doesn't come around a lot. And so when you have the opportunity to have the conversation, I just want you to put on the lens of the 20 year old worship leader who's just getting started, who's listening to this podcast, who's trying to navigate through all the, the dichotomy of I'm on a stage not to perform, but to magnify the Lord. And looking back at all the success that you've had, and that really, that is our desire, is to go the distance. And whatever the holy definition of success may be, you've tasted a lot of that in the physical. You've sold millions of records. You've led worship at presidential inaugurations and state funerals and so much more. Yet through it all, how do you keep that from becoming your identity?

B

It's a dying to self is what it is. And believe me, I've had my share of not doing that very well, especially in the early days of my career and worried about how many records I sold and all that sort of thing. But as I said earlier, as you get older, you get wiser and you realize it's not about you. And then also you realize if you sell a million records, well, the next time you got to sell 2 million and then you got to sell 5 million, it's never enough. And so to me, it's a dead end road, you know, it's just a, it's just a dead end road. And then you find out, most importantly, that God not only loves you, but he actually really likes you and just wants to be your daddy. And it's all this whole thing is relational. And so when you start to kind of walk in that and dwell in, that kind of changes, everything changes your perspective on what success really is. Yeah, it's been quite a ride and I'm still learning, but I can honestly tell you I don't care if I get another award ever again just because it doesn't really matter. I don't. I like award shows and there's nothing wrong with having success and being honored, but I just know that all of this is a gift and this thing's not about me. So I'm just trying to hit in my sweet spot. And you know, I'm just one of millions of believers in the world who have a calling on their life to go, okay, so what is your gifting and how do you operate fully in that gift and change the world and then do it till you take your last breath, you know, and.

A

Yep, yeah, that's, it's beautiful. And I. You know, just preparing for this conversation. I was just intrigued by your. Years before even a worship record, obviously you'd had your pop career, but the plantedness and rootedness in the local church, do you think that had a bit to do with kind of that rootedness, that groundedness in even, like you said, dying to self before anything kind of blew up for you professionally? Bring us back to those days, to early days leading in Brentwood. What were those moments?

B

I mean, I grew up in West Virginia. I was raised in the church my whole life. My mom and dad are my heroes who never gave up on me. Contemporary Christian media changed my life in the 70s. The Jesus movement that started in California found its way to my little town of Kenova, West Virginia. And all of a sudden, here's Larry Norman and Randy Stonehill and Andre Crouch, and it just changed my life, you know. And then I'll never forget picking up that first Maranatha record that said it was a big red Maranatha sign. It said, the Everlasting Living Jesus Music Concert. And I turned the COVID over and there was all these people with long hair singing about Jesus. And I remember going. I vividly remember where I was in that little consignment shop at 13 years old and went, that's what I want to do one day. You know, I wanted to kind of be like Elton John, do my pop thing, but sing about Jesus. I mean, that's kind of what I wanted to do. But saying all that, and I went through this 17 through 21, prodigal, gosh, almost lost my life. You can read about all the crazy details in the books I've written, but I had an incredible rescue. And I think that was all because the prayers of my mom and dad. And so after that rescue, in 1979, I met a guy named Don Fetto, who has been my mentor for 43 years. And I started going to Belmont Church, and before I knew it, I just ended up kind of on the worship team. And, you know, Brown Bannister was there, Amy Grant was going to that church. And there was a fresh move of God going on at Belmont. A lot of college kids, and I loved it, absolutely loved it. And so I led worship at Belmont for 19 years while doing all the pop stuff, Friends and Places, World and all that. And then it wasn't till 2001, that. Long story. But I did this vertical record that I felt like God wanted me to do, simply called Worship, which I thought would be the least successful record of my career. But it was an obedient thing. And it ends up being the biggest record of my career. Everywhere I go, literally all around the world, everybody knows every one of those songs in that first record, that first worship album. So came to Nashville to just do the music thing. I probably belonged to la. I probably belong to New York. But then back then, Nashville was pretty much a country town, you know. But then Sparrow moved here, and some more record companies were. And then I met Amy Grant.

A

So you're leading weekend after weekend at Belmont when you're not on the road?

B

Yeah, all during the 80s and the early 90s. And, I mean, I was exhausted, though. I mean, it was a bit of a chore, especially when. Especially when the career thing really took off and I was out, you know, doing the Le beyond tour. And, I mean, I remember one day. This is a crazy story, as I came in and I was so tired, I was so exhausted. I'm a slave worship. And I came in, I saw Don backstage and going, dodd, I don't. I just don't. I don't have it. I'm just. And I start crying. And he just. He pulled me and embraced me and prayed over me. And Don will tell you that he thinks that was one of the most powerful worship services that we ever had at Belmont. And I was spent. Somehow, through my weakness, just. Things happened, the atmosphere changed, and it was. It was a powerful day, but I didn't think I could do it, you know, But Don mentored me through all those years, and really just. He's really kind of the one who, you know, saw that I had this gift to be able to lead people in worship. And that was my beginning, you know, and that was nurtured by a lot of people who were older than I was. That helped me learn a few things about that. And then I've just gotten like, you know, you just learn so much about kind of what this whole thing is supposed to be about. Like, I mean, I think as a worship leader, and now, more than anything, there's two things I do before I walk on stage going, God, I want my motive be pure. And then let me just be clothed with humility, posture, humility, posture, humility. And then probably my next prayer is going, God, let me. Whatever I do, if it's. If there's any glory coming to me, I deflect it. Don taught me that. Just deflect it. Deflect the glory and let me be able to change whatever I do and whatever I say and sing. I just want to change the atmosphere where, God, you can meet People.

A

And so I'm intrigued by your relationship with Pastor Don, because I. You know, to be honest, I mean, he's in his 90s, you told me. And the beauty of that relationship, I. I can see. I know this to be true. In a lot of my ministry life, the depth of relationship with my senior pastor in my healthiest times has. Has been just so rich and so deep. And where connectedness and rootedness was lacking, I was the least healthy. And for the young worship leader out there listening, how do you cultivate that relationship? How do you let your pride die? You had to let your pride die in that Sunday morning when you went to Don. You're like, dude, I don't have it. And he talked you off the ledge of leaving and continuing to lead worship. And that relationship is still going on today. To the young worship leader out there, how do you cultivate that? What has to die in you to have a rich relationship with your senior leader? What have you learned through that relationship? Why does it still linger today?

B

Yeah, well, it's still lingering because he's still alive, and he's about to turn 96, and he still loves me, and I still love him. And we just had dinner the other night, actually. And, I mean, what he's done for me is probably more just. He's edified me my whole life and has made me believe when I didn't believe in myself. And, you know, he's always been quoting scripture over me. I remember that we were walking Mount Leconte, which is a mountain in Tennessee, and we used to go there on a retreat. And, well, first of all, he quoted sitting on a bench in a park in Radnor Lake. He sat down and started talking to me, and it was Colossians. And I thought he was talking to me at first, but then all of a sudden, oh, my gosh, he's quoting Colossians. He quoted the whole book by memory. Like, he wrote it to me.

A

Wow.

B

And I went, oh, my goodness. I've got to learn how to do that. So we begin memorizing Scripture together. And so I've got a bunch of psalms. I still have them. I still have Psalm 139. I can quote the whole thing to you, but just those kind of things. That's just one of. Just many, many things of just going. When you don't have it, you know, when you just can't find the words to say, just quote the word. Quote the word. And I. And to all the. Whether you're in your 20s or 30s, I think all of us, honestly, but especially those in leadership. I think you need a mentor for your whole entire life and maybe that mentor crosses over at some point. Then I think if there's any possibility, then you probably need to find another mentor to kind of guide you through at least the latter part of your life. I don't know if I hope I'm at the end of the third quarter. I hope I'm not in the fourth quarter, but maybe I am. But the crazy thing is now is I feel like I'm stepping into a role of being a father because especially a lot of musicians and artists that are going, how'd you do it? How'd you keep your family together? Have you been married for 44 and a half years? How did, how did you do that? You know, so all those things have just what's the secret? You know, and believe me, I'm, I'm very open to saying, well, here's, I sure made a lot of mistakes, but thankfully a great wife, a great prayer group that I've been in for 36 years, we're still together. And the three mentors in my life. My dad changed my life. My dad was the best. This one, the kindest man I'd ever met in my life. Be my dad. Billy Graham was a huge impact in my life. And then Don, those three men changed my life.

A

What do you, what do you think's in the way for today's worship leader from just some of that longevity of relationship, the depth of relationship. I often think the biggest disadvantage if I was starting to lead worship today, social media is both a blessing and a curse. Right? I can pull up the church down the street and compare our weekend to theirs. What do you think is in the way of just some of that long lasting relationship that maybe you've seen others in your peer group kind of fall prey to just isolation. And how do we get over that? How do we combat that? How do we keep those relationship going the distance?

B

Yeah, I was going to say that, but you did it first. I mean, I think social media is for the most part pretty awful. I mean, there's some advantages to it, you know, and you get to see some great quotes, whether it's Timothy Keller or something that comes on, oh, that's so amazing. But you can just get lost in it and you start comparing yourself to other people. And I just think the whole thing, you just lose perspective. And there's this thing about being quiet, being still for the Lord and just hanging out with God. He wants to hang out with you. And I think in this world that we're living in, we have to fight for that. And some of us, we get weak. We succumb to the pressure. Oh, I'm not going to look at my phone today. And all of a sudden, you've looked at it for an hour. You know, it's very much intentional that you're going to die to that phone today and you're just going to hang out with God. And sometimes I don't have a whole lot to say because I'm really just trying to listen. But I pray a lot. I pray almost every day. God, give me great wisdom. Give me. Give me understanding, Give me great insight. Let me see the world the way you see the world and love the way you love the world and be your guy. I want to be your man. God, let me be a conduit when I walk into a room, because I want this the one thing. I want to be like Don. Because when Don walks in a room, the whole room lights up. It's like he's. And it's not because he's drinking carrot juice. You know what I'm saying? He just glows. He's got this glow. And one of my prayers is that I could walk into a room and the atmosphere changes just by my presence. And it's not because it's Michael Davey Smith. They go, wow, there's something different about that guy. And it's. It's Jesus, you know, just that comes out my pores and not even have to say a thing. That people come under the conviction and realize, oh, my gosh, this Jesus thing really is real.

A

At the pace you maybe were running or even currently are running. We'll talk about new music you have coming out soon, but you're orchestrating soundtracks and you're writing new music. You're producing stuff. I'm sure when you were on the tour, hundreds of dates a year, where do you. Where'd you find the discipline for that Silence in a pretty loud life in world.

B

I do a lot of walking. I do a lot of. Especially on the road. I mean, I like to go out and hit the golf ball. I have to be honest. That's kind of fun. And I actually really. Especially if I'm kind of by myself, it's kind of. I actually really enjoy that.

A

I do. I do a lot of praying on the golf course. It's really like, lord, Lord, let. Let this pitching wedge hit the target.

B

Oh, it's funny. Yeah, just. And I. And I'm not doing hundreds of dates, which I'VE really never done that. Honestly, I might have done close to that when I was lead me on tour or something back in the day. But I just, I'll just say this and then I'll answer your question because I think it's important is that I remember Deb and I stepped when the whole thing started to take off and all of a sudden this, the fame and trying to die to all that. Just all of a sudden you're like, this thing is hitting on all cylinders. And I remember Deb and I, my wife and I sitting down and I looked at her going, you know what? There's probably a better chance of us being a casualty than not. And we need to make sure that we're not a casualty. So we just started making these rules. We made the rules. I'm not going to be gone any more than two weeks for my family. Even if I had to cross the pond and come back and cross the pond again. I was never gone from my family more than two weeks. So I just. So my kids, I got five kids and then 20 grandkids, believe it or not, that's a whole other story. But just I made family the most important thing. And other than just walking with Jesus and it's paid off. And what was the question again? So was it one of just the

A

discipline of silence and all the noise, 20 grandkids running around?

B

Well, you really have to fight for it. But you know what? I just think you've got to find, I mean, for me, I'm very fortunate. I've got a farm, you know, I've got a 200 acre farm that's about 20 minutes from our house and that's a haven for me and I love it. You don't have to have a farm. Just find a place. Maybe it's your closet, maybe it's a park, wherever that place is where you can turn your phone off and just be in nature. If there's any possible way that you can find a place like that. I just, I look at the stars and have the spiritual experience, you know, I just. The creation screams, you know, his praises, in my opinion, you know, so to me, it's just open the eyes of my heart, you know, let me see what's going on. Because it's. I can just walk outside and going, I love God, I love what you're doing.

A

You know, there's an intention in even just your accounting of those early days in your marriage when success is, everything's up and to the right and we may as well just name this episode of the podcast Die to Live. Right. You've got to choose what things are going to die so that the right things can thrive, whether it's my relationship with my spouse or my kids. In light of all the success, something's got to die. My pride's going to die. My. My calendar's got to die. I've got to. And so we're going to put some things to death, including our own pride, so that we can walk in. And I just want to talk for a moment about your new song coming out. It's Hymn for Communion. I love the picture of union and communion with Jesus, everything You're talking about, walking with him. Talk to us about the heart of that song and what you hope it resonates or reverberates out in the global church.

B

Yeah. Well, I wrote it with my good friend Michael Olson, who used to be on Rockatown Records, and he's a worship leader, the great friend. And we talked about this, and I think I'd mentioned him. I've always wanted to write a song about communion, but I always wanted to write it where it was invitational, too. And for some reason, I kept going back to Mephibosheth and the whole. He has a seat at the table.

A

You couldn't find anything to rhyme with Mephibosheth?

B

No, I couldn't. That was going to be a little difficult, but I just wanted. Because I say that a lot, you know? You know, I'm a big Brandon Manning fan. I just love something. It's what Brennan said about the Father Heart of God, you have a seat at the table. And the song starts out, come to the table. There's. There's a seat for you. And so that's what I love about it. And the whole thing was scary a little bit, too. Just going. Because I think communion is such a sacred thing, and sometimes I'm not sure we do it right, you know? And we're gonna take communion every week. I love taking communion every week, but it's like. It's like. And I remember making this video in this church, and I didn't know that there was gonna be the bread and the wine or the grape juice, whatever. I mean, when it was there and it doesn't really show me taking communion, but you get the indication that I am. But even when I broke. When I'm breaking the bread in the video, man, my heart almost stopped. And I just thought, oh, God, I just let my heart be pure. Let my heart be pure. Let me partake of this. The bread and the wine with a contrite heart. And so to me, you know, it's interesting that in the Catholic Church, it's a big thing, you know, I just want to make sure that we're doing this thing right. I don't really say that in the song. I'm just. To me, it's an invitation. I hope somebody hears it who just doesn't believe, just going, oh, my gosh, I'm invited to the table. That's what I hope people get from it, you know, that. That many salvations, many people will come to the Lord to this song.

A

He said it earlier so. Well, God loves you. He wants to be with you. And I, I think so often, especially for those of us who lived our lives on stages, how often we try to perform our way to the table. And I pray. I know it's encouraged me, but somebody listening today would understand. You already have a seat. It's been reserved. It's been bought by the blood of Jesus. If you've been trying to perform your way to the table, he's already done it. You couldn't earn it. And I think for the worship leader, I want to kind of pivot to some practicalities. I think, Michael, the way I remember the 2001 worship record, my wife, before I hopped on with you, she's like, he's got to know. The instrumental record, I would put that on in high school, and I would literally fall asleep to it. Not because it was boring or it put her to sleep, but it calmed her soul. Okay. So I just had to clarify that. But you have a way. Every room I've been in that you've been in, you have a way of rallying a generation of people. Right. Doesn't matter, young or old, around a melody and leading them to just sing vertical to Jesus. I don't know if it started that way or it was a progression for you, but for the worship leader who's like, I can't get my church to sing, Take us through some of that thought process as you're navigating even just the technicality of the moment, to all the environment, to the song selection, how do you break down those walls? That just extends an invitation. And the generations sing back.

B

Yeah. Well, you can't whip them into a frenzy. And that's. That's probably not a good. That's not a good approach. Come on, you guys get to stand on your feet. Let's go. Yeah, not a good idea.

A

The cheerleader approach doesn't work, huh?

B

At some point, you just gotta pray that God, God to open people's hearts, really get it. And because you want, you want the worshiper, you want the congregation to respond out of a response of the goodness of God, that you can't help but stand, you can't help but raise your voice, then you got different, you got people. I have to be really careful this because. Because I'll look into the audience and I'll see. I'll see. I'm like seeing an August day or something. And then. And most everybody is so engaged. There's some people not moving, not smiling. I have no idea what their life is like. I have no idea what happened that day. And I think you have to take in consideration that people are going through stuff and we don't know what it is. And so we can't expect for people to respond the way you think they should respond. Maybe they are responding, maybe they're totally, totally in it, but it doesn't look like they are. So I just think we have to make sure that we don't assume and that should not have anything to do that should not mess you up while you're leading. And stay the course, stay focused. I pray all during worship. I'm like, lord, let me read the room. What's happening in the room? Do I need to shift? I change the set list a lot, which is. I don't have a problem with that. But I know that's hard when you have a set list and you've got a group of musicians trying to. But are you supposed to stay on a song longer? One of my big things, and it actually happened this past Sunday and gosh, I loved it. I love, love, love, love. We're not quiet enough. And my son in law is Jack Moring, who's married to my second those Whitney and Leland and Jack are brothers. So Jack is the pastor, me even helping this church. Well, Jack asked if I'd lead worship. And so I pulled out some songs I hadn't done in a while. I did Wide is the sky by Matt Rebman. We did Cornerstone. I first heard when I was at Hillsong a long time ago for the conference. But something we got into this. It just. Something happened. It was so powerful. And I just began to play. I was just sort of playing in the spirit. And all of a sudden I just felt like I was supposed to stop. And nobody moved for five minutes and it was awesome. And I just don't think we do that enough because we want to fill the gap. And to me, be still and know that I'm God. And I think God wanted to speak to us through the silence.

A

Yep.

B

So I could give you probably 20 different things that I think might be healthy as you leave worship. And then you just got to realize, I said it earlier, what's your motive? That's the big thing. And are you humble? I remember in the early days, Lee, at my church, New river, it's been a little. Let me just say this, Chris. It's been a little different for me a little bit because I. I kind of grew up and became successful being a recording artist and a celebrity, which I don't like. So I've had to sort of, like, diffuse that probably. Maybe more so maybe than maybe other worship leaders. I'm not saying that in a weird way, but. But, you know, people came to our church because Michael David Smith leading worship, you know, so I have to. I've had to diffuse that. So there were like three, four times when we led worship that we turned the whole band around and we faced the screen so all they could see was our backs. And I loved that. I just thought it was awesome.

A

That happened to me at a Vineyard church. I was leading worship, and they made that request of us when we got there. You know, I'd been. We'd been there, like, months ahead, and then we get there, hey, every. All of our worship leaders, they. They turn the other way. And I'm like, wow, But. But what a holy moment. Because I think you said, you know, we begin to believe our press, we're the brightest thing in the room. We're the loudest thing. Through the pa. We begin to. Our flesh at least begins to buy into the. The narrative that this is in some way about us when it has never been. And so in any of those small, subtle moments where we can let that, again, in keeping with the theme, let that lie die. This is not about you. And maybe some of you listening today, you got to let your set list die. You've got to let the. The constant noise and overproduced nature of your services die and just sit in some silence for a little bit and hear his revelation. You mentioned Jack and Le. We've talked a lot to the younger worship leader in the room. There's some of them who. I'm 42. There are some of worship leaders listening who need to step into. If they haven't already, it's not too late. But you need to step into your era of equipping. Right. And saying, who's coming behind me? Talk to us about just practical ways that you've done that. You've much like your pastor did to you. He saw more in you than you saw in yourself. And you called other people up. You know, I remember meeting Jack and knowing Leland a little bit. But you being so pivotal and formative in their maturation and growth, took you putting your agenda aside, letting that die and saying, there's something I see in you that I could be cultivating in myself. But I believe that there's more fruit to bear by investing in you. How do you help somebody who's trying to just white knuckle their way through that arrow where they should be letting go, just let go and equip the next generation?

B

Yeah, well, I think it's important and, you know, I think it's a little bit of dying to yourself. You know, you want to be the guy. That's what I loved about Don when he was. Maybe he was much older than he should have been, maybe before he passed the baton, but he passed the baton. I mean, a lot of these leaders, even pastors, they stay on and stay on and stay on instead of pass the baton and then mentor that person. You know, I mean, I would be glad. I mean, if God said, hey, you know what, maybe you're just supposed to mentor the rest of your life, I would do that. So I think you got to raise up people. You got to raise up people in your fellowship and let them lead from time to time. You know, if you're leading every. Let them lead once a month, you know, and mentor who you think probably that person is, that really got his heart dialed in, you know, to me, on the worship thing. And I did that a lot at Belmont back in the day, getting people to come alongside me. And even in my band, I hired people for their hearts. And they might not be the best players, but I'm looking for somebody who's just got a heart of gold. And they're just so dialed in and so beautifully humble. That's almost more important than whether they can play or not.

A

What are some of your hacks to figuring that out early? How do you navigate, okay, this guy may have the talent, but the character. Is there an interview process you walk through? What are you looking for in those early on conversations?

B

I can almost see it immediately. I'll give you an example, which I think I could do this and not cry. My drummer, Chris Lidecker, went to heaven three weeks ago this Wednesday. He was 36 years old, had severe bout of cancer, and he was just gone in five and a half months. It was just awful. And I've cried so many tears. But he was the nicest guy I have ever worked with in my entire life. And when I was making a transition, trying to find another drummer, somebody told me, he said, you need to meet this kid named Chris Lydecker. I'd love to see first Dull. He's a great jazz drummer. So he walks in my studio and sits down on my red couch in my writing room and knew immediately, even in the first five minutes, I'm going to hire this guy. Because his demeanor, the smile that never left his face, it just. He smiled constantly. He was like a kid in a candy store. But he was humble, and he loved what he did, and he loved people, and he was kind. And I just. I don't have all the gifts of the spirit, obviously, but I think I've always had the gift of discernment. And I just thought, this guy's the real deal. And I let him leave. And then I called him that night and said, you got the gig, you know, And I honestly didn't know if he could play. As I know all these people who knew him well, who I very well respected, told me he could play. But then when I got in a room with him, he was better than I thought he was going to be. But I hired him because of his eyes and his demeanor, and it was never about him. Never about him.

A

That's a masterclass in just recognizing character. Yep. Character over competency.

B

Yeah. Yeah.

A

I love it. I think we can. We can turn the corner and wrap this way. Michael. You know, hindsight's 20 20. We all get that. But the thing that, you know now that early on in your 20s, when you first got started, you're like, gosh, I wish I would have learned this earlier. What would that be?

B

It's not that. Me. I mean, I wish I could give you a more profound answer. You know, it's not about me. I mean, this is. I wake up every day and I'm going, oh, gosh, what a gift. I get to take another breath. I get to get out of bed, and I get to sit in my war room for me. I go to the hot tub and I pray outside. And I God, thank you for another day. Let me live it to its fullest. Let me be ever aware of everything going on, and who am I supposed to come in contact with today? Who am I supposed to be with and guide me and don't let me go off and just do whatever, but just let me be intentional about being salt and light and that might not have anything to do with music. It could be the person at the grocery store, you know, I mean, I did something crazy the other day. I'll just give you this. This is a crazy example. I hardly ever do this. But we have In n Out burger now, which is a big deal for Tennessee.

A

It's about time, Michael.

B

It's a big deal in my bed. It's overrated, you know, but we have an in and out that's like 15 minutes from my. And I. And honestly, it was so weird. I felt like I was supposed to go to. And I'd been there once, only that opening day. And I eat pretty healthy and. But I was just a mood for a burger. And I felt, this is weird. I just felt God nudging me to go to In n Out. And that's the weirdest thing. Maybe it wasn't God, but I kind of think it was after what happened. So I go and I order my food and I've kind of got the day off. I'm working with Ted T. But I've kind of got this three, four hour window. And so I order my food. And they're all so nice. Everybody's so nice. Are you going to eat in or you going to eat out? Well, I think I'm going to give the old college a try and eat in. And the place is packed, you know, so I'm just standing there waiting on my food, and this booth opens up and so I grabbed the booth. Everybody's looking for a seat. You know, there's just people standing up because every seat's filled. And then this lady walks up to me and has this Eastern Europe accent and says, hey, is anybody sitting here? Could me and my husband sit with you? I said, yeah, come on. They're from Bulgaria. They live in Alabama and they have for the last 25 years, but they got that accent. We sat there for 45 minutes. Wow. That talked about life, talked about faith, talked about God eaten in and out burger. To me, that was just a beautiful sacred moment for me almost as much as leading worship on Sunday morning this past week, you know, so it's those little things that you just want to just be keenly aware of going. Maybe I'm supposed to sit in the booth with complete strangers and talk about life. And that's what we did. I love it.

A

Michael W. Smith in an In n out of Nashville.

B

And I had my hand on, you

A

know, with some Bulgarian Alabamans.

B

I love it. It was so good, though. But I loved it. I just walked out there and I went, thank you God, thank you for that moment that you knew that was going to happen before the beginning of. It's just crazy. Just that God. The whole Psalm 139, I just. That's my favorite. I thought about that. You know, all those verses about how he ordained our ways and. But it was great. So. And who knows? I mean, maybe we'll get. I'll get on the other side. And something truly impacted both that couple from Alabama, because it turned into Michael.

A

Hello, Michael. It's us from Bulgaria.

B

It turned into a Jesus thing, you know, a little bit. And I tried to downplay, well, what do you do? Well, you know, I come in the music business and, you know, we lead worship already. You know, it's just kind of one thing. But I always try to go, this is not about me, but because in inside, I'm. I'm trying to go, Lord, I'm trying to sort of, I want to be your man here. You know, try to find out about their faith. And I did pre Orthodox, but told me they're believers, and we had this nice chat, and they found I was friends with Andrea Bocelli, and they freaked out. And then we just talk about the record, and all of a sudden she's found me on Instagram. And you just never know how that couple might be impacted by just our little encounter in an outburger in Tennessee.

A

It's the pause. Long enough to see the hand of God working.

B

It's the pause. Yep.

A

I admire that about you. There was a couple years you were senior pastor of a church. Did I get that right? What's it like being the worship leader for senior pastor Michael W. Smith? Take me back to that day.

B

Oh, well, I led worship a lot, too. When I was doing that, I mean, I was so unqualified, Chris. I mean, I really did it because our fellowship was in trouble, and, you know, we were trying to be a plurality. It's a long story. And it was a. It was crazy that I just felt like that God wanted me to do this, and it was a miracle that I did that I even pulled it off in the midst of a recording career. I was just trying to anchor us a little bit and trying to cast some vision, you know, to kind of get us back on track because we had some issues. And I realized that this is the hardest job in the world. And so my empathy level went way up for senior pastors of what they deal with probably on a daily basis. I'm the guy. Chris says, okay, everybody, let's love God with all our Hearts and let's love each other as ourselves. It's that simple. No, not for some. You know, it was hard. It was very hard for me to be patient with that. At the same time, during that two year time, my love for the church deepened on a grand scale. I fell in love with the church. Even with the crazy people, I fell in love with church and it changed my life.

A

Wow, that's a moment for sure. And I think we can end our conversation there. And I just want to. Again, to those of you listening, I pray that this podcast, anything we create at Multitracks serves you. I know this conversation with Michael has serv. And Michael, I want you to have the final word, I think to the worship leader listening. Today we talked to thousands of them and the general consensus by many of them in some way they're saying, I'm tired. And there's a lot today who are tired almost to the degree that they're thinking about stepping away from ministry. Everything you said about the beauty and love for the local church, Jesus is obsessed with the church. And if I love Jesus, therefore, I will be just as passionate about the church. But to the leader who is ready to just kind of let go and move on and do something different with their life and maybe that's the step they need to take. But for the one who doesn't need to take that step, what do you leave with them today to just one more Sunday, maybe what Pastor Don spoke to you that, that day. What do you leave with that leader who's maybe navigating that tension or they're just tired and ready to, to move on?

B

Yeah, it's tough because I've been there, you know what, in your weakness, he's strong. I think when you get that exhausted, there's got to be something somewhat unhealthy with maybe the way the organization, the church is operating. I mean, you're not supposed to be burnt out. It can be exhausting. But I think with the calling, maybe some of that comes with that. I'm sure Jesus was exhausted. I got to get out of here, man. I gotta go pray. So I think he knows exactly what you're feeling. I would just say don't easily give up and just stay on your knees and just say, lord, I just, I'm tired. I can't do it. But be my strength. Just be my strength and I'm going to lean on you. And I think the more you can do that instead of. Because sometimes we get exhausted because we are, we're trying to do it, you know, we're trying to muster up the energy, but. Yeah, I just. I pray for all of you that are feeling that way that God will, first of all, that you'll know that he has not given up on you and that he loves you. And I believe in the midst of maybe all, maybe it's chaos, maybe it's exhaustion again. I believe you got a calling on your life, and I believe your best days are ahead. And I pray that whatever the obstacles are, if the devil's involved, then get thee behind me, Satan. You have no place in my life and no place in your life. Then may you thrive for all the right reasons. He's got you there for a reason. And I'm sure there's lots of people who've been deeply impacted by what you're doing. And so. Yeah. But great wisdom, great insight, which is what I pray for myself all the time and for some godly holy stamina that only comes from him. Amen.

A

Go find Hymn of Communion by Michael W. Smith. Out now. Wherever you listen to music. We've got all the stems right here at Multitrack. Until next time. Thanks for joining us on the lead Worship well podcast.