The Mysterious Death of Mostly Harmless: Big Cypress National Reserve

Danielle

In the fall of 2009, the search and rescue team at Big Cypress National Preserve got a call a hunter had gone missing. Big Cypress sits on the northern edge of the Everglades and protects the same ecosystem. A landscape shaped by water, freshwater swamps and coastal estuaries. Cypress trees, mangroves, sawgrass prairies, and islands of hardwood oaks rise a few feet from sea level. It is paradise for wildlife, but it is a dangerous place to get lost. Alligators are everywhere and cottonmouth snakes lurk in the grass. The Florida panther, rarely seen, slinks through the trees while clouds of mosquitoes swarm all who breathe. If you get turned around, there's nothing on the horizon to orient yourself. Florida is the flattest state in the nation, and with one wrong step, you're in waist deep mud. Wherever you go, the heat and sun will follow. These were the hazards that worried search teams looking for the missing hunter. In 2009, with a team patrolling on foot, with bloodhounds and helicopters searching from above, they were unable to find the man for four days and feared the worst. Until they heard a hoarse voice calling out for help. The man had fallen into deep water, lost his cell phone, shotgun, and most of his clothing. When they found him, he was covered in mosquito bites and sunburnt. He had survived those four days by drinking swamp water and eating a catfish. He was lucky to get out alive. Many do not. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

Cassie

Hello, everyone. Welcome back. I'm Cassie.

Danielle

I'm Danielle.

Cassie

And drinking swamp water just gave me a visceral reaction.

Danielle

It's not the best option, but if it's your only one, what are you gonna do? Eating a catfish is truly equally. I would rather drink swamp water.

Cassie

I'd rather eat a catfish. Swamp water. Giardia. You're gonna. You're leaving that? I don't know if drinking that swamp water is rehydrating you or if it's depleting you of everything you had left

Danielle

in your whole system. It also gives vibes of your how to survive quicksand episode. Just being stuck in the mud like that.

Cassie

Yeah, it sounds like a nightmare.

Danielle

Well, welcome to our nightmare. We're in Big Cypress National Preserve today, a park that we have not visited yet on the podcast, and I don't think either of us have ever been to in real life.

Cassie

Close to close to the Everglades, but not quite. It is on our list to do. Actually, right before we hopped on the sewers, I was saying to Danielle that we need to do a Florida. And we've talked about this in the past together that we need to do a little Florida national park trip.

Danielle

Yeah, it just sounds nice when we're

Cassie

cold in the winter.

Danielle

Yeah, when you're freezing to death in the winter, for sure. Well, let's talk about Florida in June because there's no better time to be in Florida. That's what everyone says.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

All right, so this episode is actually another recommendation from a listener twice in a row now. Thank you, everyone. And it comes from a HBO documentary is where I guess we started research. But the documentary is called they Called Him Mostly Harmless. It came out last year or the year before. It's really good. I definitely recommend everyone watch it. If you have HBO after this. And I'll link the other resources in the show notes. There's a lot of good articles and also a podcast that we'll get into a little bit too. There was three episodes dedicated to this story.

Cassie

I recently just signed up for HBO so I can watch it.

Danielle

Oh, to watch what?

Cassie

I watched the Dark wizard with Dean Potter.

Danielle

Oh, okay. Okay. Well, as we're speaking, as we're recording tonight's the night, House of the Dragon Returns.

Cassie

Oh, you know, it keeps popping up in my. You should watch this. And I've never watched it.

Danielle

I think you would enjoy. You have some catching up to do. You're going to be very confused if you just get on tonight for the season premiere. But regardless, I think you would love

Cassie

it because House of Dragons is related to Game of Thrones, right?

Danielle

Yeah, it's like a prequel type of thing.

Cassie

Okay. And I. And I watched Game of Thrones and I really liked it.

Danielle

So yay, get on board so we can talk about it. Because I love that show so much, I think I might like it better than Game of Thrones.

Cassie

Really?

Danielle

Yeah.

Cassie

That's a tough one.

Danielle

And you like dragon stuff?

Cassie

I do like dragon stuff. Yeah.

Danielle

Okay. Anyway, sorry, I'm just excited. Today's a big day. But anywho, let's get into the story. On a sweltering summer afternoon on July 23, 2018, Nicholas Horton and Logan Bueller, friends from Fort Lauderdale, were hiking a 15 mile loop through Big Cypress National Preserve. Nicholas was questioning his life choices. The cowboy boots he had chosen to wear for fear of snakes were causing him blisters and discomfort. Just a few miles in, and the steady rain that had tempered the heat was becoming uncomfortable to track in. After a quick debate between them as to whether to keep going or to turn around, they elected to push a bit further, eventually meandering to Noble's camp, a small Campground along the Florida Scenic Trail and part of the loop that they were doing. When they arrived at the site, Nicholas wandered towards a swampy area while Logan headed towards the picnic table. They weren't separated for long when Nicholas heard Logan's voice call out, hello? Hello. Walking back over to see who his friend was speaking to, Nicholas approached a small clearing that held a picnic table and a yellow two person tent. first glance, nothing seemed to raise alarm. The site didn't look disturbed, and a pair of hiking boots sat just outside the tent flap. But within a few moments, the eerie silence shifted the atmosphere. And then came the smell. The friends called out to the tent, more hoping for a voice to answer. But when none came, they approached the tent and peered through the mesh door. What they discovered made them recoil. As they were backing away, Nicholas reached into his pocket and dialed 911.

911 Operator

Call your county 911. What is the address of your emergency? I'm at Big Cypress National Preserve. I'm Nick Horton or Nicholas Horton. Thank you so much. And did you need the police, fire medical? We just found a dead body. Okay. Are you on the trail? Yeah, I'm on the trail. And the dead body is at the Noble Camp. Noble site? Yeah, it's in the tent. Like I just. Like we walked by it and I don't know if that smells strange or something kind of in it. It's kind of curled up. Yeah, just it looks like one body. Okay, and what do you remember the color of the tent? There's only one tent out there in this whole place because we just walked the whole trail. It was like a small red and yellow and yellow. It's all yellow tent. Oh, it's an all yellow tent. Okay. Yeah. And when you did see the body, did you check on it to see if it was breathing or anything? Yeah, I mean, I didn't touch it. I looked at it. We yelled hello. But he looked really skinny and really like, I don't know, like a weird color.

Danielle

The friends had discovered the remains of what they assumed to be a male camper. He was extremely emaciated, just skin and bones, positioned in a somewhat upright but curled position with eyes staring wide. Park rangers, deputies and homicide detectives, including a detective from the Coyer County Sheriff's office named Detective Kevin o'. Neal. When they arrived on scene, they walked into a mystery. The man in the yellow tent had a long mountain man type of beard and appeared to be in maybe his 30s or early 40s. But he had no identification on him, no wallet, no driver's license, and no cell phone. Among his belongings were his hiking equipment, food, a plastic bag with over $3,000 in cash, and two notebooks filled with what appeared to be some sort of mathematical equations or code of some kind of. During an autopsy, medical examiners found that this man had wasted away. Despite being 5 foot 8, he weighed just 83 pounds.

Cassie

Whoa.

Danielle

But confusingly, of all the usual theories to explain his condition, they didn't seem to fit. How would he have starved to death if food was discovered inside of his tent within arm's reach? So maybe they thought he was on drugs. But the toxicology report came in and he. It came back completely clean. There was Tylenol in his system, but nothing else. They found no signs of trauma or evidence of foul play or any apparent illness that he may have suffered from.

Cassie

So it's not the swamp water?

Danielle

It's not the swamp water or the catfish. I'm like, giardia.

Cassie

That's giardia.

Danielle

So, no, he's not eating.

Cassie

He's stick thin. Case solved.

Danielle

I. Should I just stop. We're six minutes in. I. I did.

Cassie

I think. Yeah. Thank you.

Danielle

Let's pack it in. Do you have anything else to say?

Cassie

No. Enjoy the view, but watch your back.

Danielle

Goodbye. House Dragons on tonight. Um, okay. Sorry. And going back to what else they're finding as they're examining the body. His teeth. Of course, a lot of people rely on dental records for identification purposes, but his teeth are in fantastic shape. It doesn't look like he had any sort of dental work done at any point in time. But they did notice a faint scar on his abdomen, suggesting maybe he had a surgery of some kind at some point in his life. But nothing they found could explain how he died or as it turned out, who he was, because there's nothing that indicates his identity on his person or within his belongings. And just a note here. I mean, I know I described. He was emaciated and a lot of people are morbidly curious. And I understand that. I will not be posting the photos, but they are readily online. As far as not there are autopsy photos, but there are a lot of photos that were taken on site that show him in the tent and his remains in the tent. So I won't be posting that. Are public, but they're public online? Yep.

Cassie

Wow, that's crazy. I don't understand how some things get online, but okay.

Danielle

But sure, yeah. I just don't want to contribute to recirculating them. But for those of you who are curious, they're available. Furthermore, he had no Tattoos or medical implants that would make identifying him any easier. He had no credit cards. Again, no id, no names in his notebooks that had all that kind of mathematical equation stuff going on. One investigator said that the notebooks looked either like the workings of a genius or a madman, but they couldn't make heads or tails of them either way. And we're not talking manifesto type of thing, like ramblings or internal monologue type of journalistic writings. These are truly. It looks like code to something so interesting. They're very confused as to what that means, but. And that comes in later on. But just so you know, it's not like a.

Cassie

Not like a journal.

Danielle

Yeah, a journal. It seemed like whoever this man was, he had made an intentional effort to remain anonymous. But police hoped that someone somewhere might recognize. Recognize him. They took a picture of his face and did everything they could to clean it up, to not be gruesome. So they ended up photoshopping his head onto a. Just like a regular body. And then for some reason, that body was wearing, like, a professional suit. So it's like this dead body's head that is clearly emaciated and looks disturbing. And they, like, kind of photoshop it onto, like, a body to make it seem like he's alive. And they're like, hey, have you seen me? Or like, do you recognize me? And he. They put it on a flyer.

Cassie

What year is this?

Danielle

What.

Cassie

What year is this?

Danielle

This is in the 2000s. This is in 2018.

Cassie

What? I feel like 2018. You know how missing people, like missing children, they'll do a photo that's like, this is what they would look like now kind of thing. I feel like they could easily have had a photo of him, like, done a. This is what he would have looked like, a live photo, not emaciated, and been like, does anyone recognize him? Vs Photoshopping his. Him onto a business person? I agree that's crazy.

Danielle

I have a better picture that I'll post of this flyer, but I just don't have it on my phone. But I do want to send you this at least, so you have a little bit of an idea. It's not, like, super. It's nothing like, startling, because, again, the sheriff's office did this. But it does look strange. But that's all they had to work with.

Cassie

Why is his mouth open?

Danielle

Because he's dead. He's deceased, and his.

Cassie

His face looks dead and his body looks alive.

Danielle

Right. Well, so their hope is that someone is going to recognize him or his essence in some way. They put it on this flyer. They distribute it to the local community, asking for the public's help in his identification. And as weird as this is and how, like, kind of you can clearly see that and be like, this person is not alive. But if you think about it, they're really lucky that he was found by those two friends when they did, because you're talking July in Florida, in the swamp, A body's gonna decomp so fast. Like, he probably died within hours or a day of being discovered because his body, even though it was emaciated, Decomposition wise. Decomp process hadn't started in earnest yet.

Cassie

Okay. Yeah. And then also just all the wildlife that's there, the fact that he was still.

Danielle

Right, right. And this photo is kind of like, we'll get into it. But it's the one thing that tipped over, like, oh, actually, I do recognize him, and this is what I know about him. Without that photo, they wouldn't have had anything. Okay, so it worked. It did work. It was just. Yeah. So anyway.

Cassie

A little unhinged how they went about it.

Danielle

The flyers caught the attention of many, but two in particular became central to this case. Christy Harris worked long days as a delivery driver for a local dry cleaning company. But by night, she spent the evenings behind the glow of her computer screen. As a kid, she always dreamt of working for the FBI and felt a calling to fight for people who might otherwise be forgotten about. So she spent her time off working to identify the unidentifiable and another person. Natasha Teasley was the manager of a kayaking company. And as a passionate member of the outdoors community, she saw this missing person's case as a worthwhile cause, because, again, they also did say where this person was found. It seems like they were a hiker or a camper. They were in a tent. Etc, so she was drawn to this case for. For that reason. And both women leaned into this case during COVID when, you know, our real life kind of slowed down to a halt, and a lot of people's lives were different than normal. And while these women didn't know each other personally, their profound interest in the case led them to become moderators of a Facebook page that would grow to be thousands strong, dedicated to identifying the man in the yellow tent. The police were aware of the reputation that armchair detective communities had amongst law enforcement. Chaotic fleet, filled with conspiracies and often producing unhelpful or counterproductive theories. But without any leads to speak of, investigators leaned into getting the word out in whatever way was gonna work. You know, they accepted the risks of what online sleuthing can bring, but also recognized the benefit and decided to move forward with that. The sheriff's office started a podcast about their missing persons cases called Sworn Statement. Like I mentioned up top and the first three episodes, this entire podcast is focused on this case in particular. The episodes summarize the case as they understood it at the time. Basically, we do not know why this man died, but we do know that he had taken deliberate steps to hide his identity. This is the information we have. Do you know anything else? So the podcast is. Was kind of being produced in real time, so there's not like in a nice neat bow of here's the story in its entirety and here's the ending. It's just kind of like a plea for help. This effort, among others, helped gather momentum. A growing number of sleuths like Christine and Natasha began sharing the man's image across the Internet, posting in every South Florida hiking group they could find, and reaching out to the thru hiking community in the state and beyond. As the police's unhinged headshot circulated online, members of the thru hiking community were the first to recognize who this person was. Kelly Fairbanks, a trail angel, recognized the man's eyes and remembered meeting him in 2018 in Florida.

Cassie

That's a crazy statement because his eyes look wild in that photo.

Danielle

But she's like, I know them and here's the proof. She produced a picture that she had taken with him boasting a wide smile. And in it, he looked healthy, handsome, and had kind eyes. And Kelly knew him by his trail name. Mostly harmless. As more thru hikers who had met the man emerged, the story went that he had arrived after dark to a campsite in Georgia where a group was already gathered around a campfire. And when they invited him in to join, they joked that he was welcome as long as he didn't bite. And allegedly, he replied that he was mostly harmless. So that's kind of the lore of where that trail name came to be.

Cassie

That's a lot more innocent and fun than I imagined. I'm like, mostly harmless is a little scary.

Danielle

Well, we'll revisit this. It's important.

Cassie

Okay.

Danielle

Finally, investigators had an image of the man alive and a name. Well, at least a trail name that they could go off of. Invigorated. This information sent the sleuthing community into overdrive, searching for more and more hikers who might know his real name and his true identity. Other hikers knew the man by the trail name Denim, because at least early on, he had hiked in jeans. So now that they have a real picture of him, there's other. This other half of the hiking community being like, yeah, I know him, but not by. Mostly harmless. I knew him back in the.

Cassie

You know, by denim.

Danielle

By denim. So already we have.

Cassie

Hiking in jeans is also. I can't.

Danielle

A choice.

Cassie

Sketchy.

Danielle

And we get into this again, it comes back again. As far as there's these little things that at first you're like, huh, interesting. But they all come together in the end, okay. Investigators chased down leads as they came. The owner of an outdoor gear store in Georgia reached out to say that he remembered selling the yellow two person tent that the police had also shared photos of in their report and on that early flyer. And while Denham had purchased the tent with cash, leaving no record, he had almost certainly stayed at the hostel next door, which did require guests to leave their full name, not just their trail name in the register. Investigators rushed to the hostel, combing through the logbook for his name, flipping to the date of the tent purchase in November of 2017. And there they found a name, Ben Bellamy. The police quickly checked the name Ben Bilamy against national databases, and it turned out that no one with that name existed in the US not just in the U. S. Missing persons cases, none at all. It was clearly an alias and just more evidence that he had taken concerted efforts to cover his tracks. And it should go without saying, but it is really, really hard in this digital age, Even back in 2017, to leave no trace online, to hide yourself so effectively that neither professional investigators or thousands of Internet sleuths on Facebook, Reddit and other online forums could not find out who you were. As a result, many started to believe that Denham had the skill to erase his online footprint. Something like some sort of tech genius or tech worker. And that kind of goes back to the notebooks. And that theory coincides with. Okay, this makes sense because his notebooks are filled with some type of coding language.

Cassie

I once could code MySpace forever.

Danielle

Yeah, I could make things like bold and italic and do so I could do that songs.

Cassie

I could change the colors. I basically was a web designer.

Danielle

A lot of us had promising careers. As in the tech world we did back then, asked me to do it

Cassie

now, but we lost it all too young. We did.

Danielle

A dream has come and gone. Yep, well, AI is taking all that shit anyway, so we would have been screwed.

Cassie

RIP to the jobs we could have maybe had.

Danielle

So going back to this notebook, it was about 40 pages filled with this dense, neat, insipherable handwriting that again, mimicked coding, just like they did with his image. The investigators did their best to try internally to try and figure out what this was saying, but they came to the conclusion that, all right, we only know so much. Clearly we have no idea what this is. Maybe the public can help us. So they released images of the notebook out as well to circulate to the community, hoping that someone out there recognized it or could at least decipher it to some degree. And the online community once again helped identify it as code. And at first, they didn't realize what it was for. Some believe that it might have been related to Bitcoin, which. Don't even get me started. Ask me to define Bitcoin. I'm. I don't know. A million dollars? If you gave me a million dollars right now, I don't know what that is. I. It's some kind of money, Fake online money. But who? Where? Where? Like, if someone's like, can I pay you in bitcoin? I'm like, what does that even mean? Do I also have to have bitcoin to be paid in bitcoin to give you Bitcoin back?

Cassie

I think it's just fake money that someone decided is worth something, and you exchange it online, and hopefully the people who use it will continue to agree that it's worth something. That's my understanding. It's also God, but I also know nothing about it.

Danielle

The name is escaping me right now, but I remember it was pretty big a couple years ago. There's a word for it where it's like. It's a piece of art, like digital art that's unique and one of a kind, and it's worth like millions of dollars, but it just looks like AI generated art. What the hell is it called? Sorry. People are gonna tear me apart.

Cassie

Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Danielle

NFTs.

Cassie

Oh, I vaguely remember that. Yeah.

Danielle

Online digital paintings or one of ones. NFTs.

911 Operator

The.

Danielle

These pieces are verified for authenticity and digital ownership, meaning only one person can own the original file and their work. Worth so much money. But it's just a piece of digital you like. It's like, I own this digital thing. It's mine.

Cassie

Oh, and that's interesting.

Danielle

Okay, do you want to guess how much the most expensive NFT, what, went for?

Cassie

$10 million.

Danielle

Okay. The most expensive NFT ever sold is the merge by Pack, which achieved a record breaking 91.8 million in December of 2021.

Cassie

And it's just online art. Like, you can't even. You print it yourself.

Danielle

I don't know if it's meant to be printed. I think you're just.

Cassie

So you just look at it on your phone or something?

Danielle

Yeah, I guess.

Cassie

What?

Danielle

Okay. And you're gonna. This is what it is.

Cassie

What? I don't understand.

Danielle

It's a spear. I don't either.

Cassie

Anyway, whoever bought that should just give me their money, because that was ridiculous.

Danielle

In bitcoin. I want $91 million in bitcoin, please.

Cassie

I would prefer real money.

Danielle

Anywho, we don't know what bitcoin is, but eventually someone really smart figured out what the journal was saying. And it was code like people had thought. But this coder in particular said, I know exactly what that's for. And it's for a game called Screeps. Essentially. This is a game for programmers where you build, like, little fortresses that operates based on the code that you generate and create for it. And it just kind of like runs in perpetuity even when you're not actively playing it. So even if you're online, it's just going because you created code for it to just keep building and doing its thing. So. This revelation didn't reveal Denim's true name, but it was another piece of the puzzle, because clearly he was a techie of some sort. And this information was corroborated by through hikers who had stepped forward to share their personal experiences with him. When they ran into him on the trail, they remembered him talking about working in the tech industry. And it was through hikers who helped paint a picture of Denham's personality. One hiker, trail named Magpie, decided to hike half of the Appalachian Trail when she was 68 years old. Her friends had laughed at her when she had the idea to do this, but she wanted to see if she could still do it. And she set out to reach her goal. And I just want to do a little quick plug for Cassie's episode on Grandma Gatewood, because we get so many emails to this day asking us to cover Grandma Gatewood's story. And we have.

Cassie

We have. And it's such a good one. And if you haven't read the book, read the book, because the book is also really good. And it was written by one of her relatives, which is also cool. Yeah, she's a badass older through hiker, just like Magpie.

Danielle

And one day on the trail, Magpie says that she ran into a young man who introduced himself as Denim. And when she shared her trail name, he asked why it was why she went by Magpie, and she responded by saying, it's a big noisy bird that doesn't like shiny objects. And Denim playfully reached into his pack and pulled out a shiny gum wrapper and handed it to her, joking back, that sounds like something a Magpie would say. And in her experience, most younger men on the trail were in too much of a hurry to talk to an older woman. She shared her experiences of kind of being, like, overlooked or ignored while on the trail. But Denim stopped to speak with her for quite a while, and when they ran into each other again at a trailside restaurant, Denim was sitting with a group of younger people. But right away, as soon as he saw her, he invited her over to sit with them. He stood out to Magpie simply for how kind he was to her. She felt like they were kindred spirits, and Magpie was not alone in that feeling. Another hiker named Brandon Dowell remembered meeting Denham at Springer Mountain in Georgia. He'd arrived at the shelter early and was glad for the company when Denham arrived and introduced himself that night around the campfire. They talked about sci fi and girls, and eventually their conversation evolved into a rather deep discussion about their early childhood, learning that they had each gone through some difficult stuff as kids. Brandon talked about his stepfather's reign of terror in his house, and Denham shared a painful memory of his father taking him out into the yard and asked him to fight him before Denim chose to walk away. The following morning, the men parted ways and never saw each other again. But the experience resonated deeply with Brandon, who remembered the connection many years later. Denim felt like a rare person who could understand Brandon's pain with compassion. As more details emerged about Denim, mostly harmless, the online sleuthing community continued to grow in both size and fervor. These added details about Denham's kindness just added fuel to the fire, giving Kristy and Natasha more of a reason to care about discovering his true identity. And it might not surprise you that many of the theories that emerged from these Facebook and Reddit groups were unhinged, to say the least. Some believed that Denham was an international spy who was covering his tracks for whatever reason. And some people thought maybe he was an ex military operative. And then some of the more off the walls theory ventured into the cult member, alien time traveler, reincarnated ghosts territory.

Cassie

Ah, so there's that good old.

Danielle

The good old reincarnated ghost, which I've never heard.

Cassie

I was gonna say a reincarnated ghost. Are you reincarnated as a ghost or are you just a ghost after you die?

Danielle

Die after you were reincarnated into life and then you pass away? Yeah, that's my job on that. But I'm just saying it for what the theories truly were. Over here at National Park After Dark, we are environmentally conscious and do everything we can to be kinder to the planet. And that's why I use Blueland. Knowing just how much plastic is in virtually everything we use, my aim is to reduce microplastics anywhere that I can. So I made the decision to oust my old cleaning products in favor of Blueland, who makes the dish laundry and other household cleaning products designed to reduce single use plastic. Their laundry tablets have made my life so much easier. They're pre measured and mess free. I just drop the little tablet directly into the drum and wash as usual. Their microplastic free formula made with plant and mineral based cleaning ingredients is hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin, but also tough on stains, all without the bulk plastic jug or any of the artificial scents. Blueland products are independently tested to perform alongside major brands and the formulas are made without dyes, parabens or harsh chemicals. Blueland is a certified B Corp and Leaping Bunny Cruelty Free certified. Their formulas are EPAC for Choice certified and many products have also earned Cradle to Cradle's Gold Material Health Certificate. Blueland is trusted in over 1 million homes including mine. Make the switch today. Get 15 off your first order by going to blueland.com npad that's 15 15% off your first order at blueland.com npad bland.com npad you know I love organization just as much as the next gal, but having one of those pill organizers to keep track of all of my daily supplements was getting a bit extra since switching to IMA. All that fuss is gone. Im8's Daily Ultimate Essentials is a daily all in one wellness drink that gives my body the benefits of 16 different supplements in one tasty drink. It simplifies my supplement routine and it's easier to support my health. Co founded by David Beckham okay honey and crafted with insight from experts at Mayo Clinic, Cedar Cyanide and former NASA Chief Scientist. This drink is loaded with 92 rich ingredients like vitamins, minerals, adaptogens and pre, pro and postbiotics. They use effective ingredients and back them with research through clinical trials. Their ingredients are clean, vegan, gluten free and non gmo. With all of that, I feel confident about what I'm putting into my body, especially on the year I'm focused on my health. I like to drink my imate in the morning because, I don't know, I just feel like I'm loading up my bod with what it needs for whatever the day brings. And it helps that it tastes great. So it's a nice, refreshing way to kick off the day. Go to im8health.com npad right now or click the link in the description and use code NPAD for a free welcome kit. Five free travel sachets plus 10% off your order. That's code npad@imate health.com npad code npad@imatehealth.com npad these statements have not been evaluated by the food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. One Facebook user even concluded that Denim was legally blind. And the reason that they said he was blind is because they saw one photo of him that emerged. Because now that people are recognizing him and sharing their experiences, all these through hikers are sharing photos that they snapped with him or their interaction. So there's actually a lot of photos coming in of him, and there's one that he's. He's standing pretty close to a trail sign or map. Just kind of like getting a good look at it. Kind of maybe like you're examining your route you're about to take. But from that position in that one still photo, this Facebook user was like, he's legally blind. He can't see, and he starved to death because he couldn't find the food in his tent.

Cassie

I love Internet people.

Danielle

Oh, my God.

Cassie

Internet people know everything, and I'm here for it.

Danielle

It's like, whatever you say.

Cassie

It's like, you. You were mauled. You raised wolves. Oh, by yourself, and then they mauled and ate you.

Danielle

Or. Or I was raised by them and then came back into society and then went back to see them, and they accepted me back into the pack because they remembered me.

Cassie

I do like that.

Danielle

I like this.

Cassie

That you erased by wolves. Yeah, that's nice.

Danielle

For those who don't know, that's a fact, and that's what I've always said. For those who don't know, there's a. There's a video of me online that recirculates. I don't know. It was taken in 2015, and it recirculates every, like, year or two on all of the. All over online. I'm a. Like, I'm a gif. I'm in a ton of different YouTube videos. It's crazy, but essentially When I worked at the Colorado Wolf and Wildlife center, my friend Michelle just took a video of me, like we do every day, going in with the wolves and, you know, cleaning their enclosures and doing socialization and stuff like that. And just for whatever reason, this one clip, there's a million of them like it with me and with a ton of other people. But for whatever reason, this one clip went viral of Kikoa, who has since passed away. RIP he was a real one of him kissing me and playing with me. And the comments that people have, like, I've received death threats of like, I should die because I'm like, with a wild animal and I. I deserve to, like, get mauled and I'm stupid for being with wolves.

Cassie

And again, Internet people are just out here doing the Lord's work. They are. Yeah.

Danielle

Spreading kindness throughout the land.

911 Operator

Yes.

Danielle

So, and then just to wrap that up, others, you know, there's a ton of different theories. I won't get into all of them, but some even pointed to the reason that he had no identification on him is because. Or credit cards is because he was Amish. And we all know that the Amish don't do credit cards.

Cassie

Yep, I'm here for it. Internet theories. I'm here for. Give me the deets.

Danielle

I believe them all. I will consider everything. As the sole moderator of one of these early Facebook groups, Kristy Harris saw it as her job to kind of wrangle all of this misinformation and trying to streamline things because it's getting crazy quick. So she would delete unhelpful or outlandish discussions to try and keep the focus. But she also had really strict rules for the group. She demanded that all the group members went through her before reaching out to other thru hikers, contacting law enforcement, or organizing information on the page. And in the documentary, she said that she needed to be the hammer if they wanted to get anything done, even if that meant not being nice to everyone. So she's starting to rise to the top of being like, I'm in charge here. This is my group, and I want the help. And I think that every. Everyone has a place here to help with information, but only in the way that I am seeing fit.

Cassie

Gotcha.

Danielle

And Natasha Teasley was a member of Christy's group, and she was one of those members that she kind of brought the hammer down on. After Natasha attempted to contact a witness independently, Christie sent her a private message calling her an idiot and telling her basically to just off.

Cassie

Ah, here we go.

Danielle

The Internet. I Love it. Others threatened her in private messages as well. And this behavior was not limited to just, you know, you know, just going to Natasha. She was like this with quite a number of people. But what makes Natasha different is that she eventually left the group because of these types of reasons and became the moderator of a competing group to help solve this case. And then other members of that original group went over and joined her because they were really upset with how Christy was running the group. So it kind of like started as this wholesome, let's really, we want to find out who this man is and let's all work together and we can make a difference. And now people are at each other's throats and we're. There's mutiny and things are happening.

Cassie

There's Internet wars. There's.

Danielle

Wars are happening.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

Throughout all of this toxic online drama, the sleuthing community and professional investigators were starting to exhaust their leads. In the hiking community, one of the last leads came in the form of a man named Mike Gromley, Trail name Waterboy, likely the last person to ever see Denim alive. Mike attempted the Appalachian Trail in 2015. When he learned about trail angels. In retirement, he became one himself. And that's how he eventually crossed paths with Denham. In April of 2018, driving near Big Cypress in his truck, he saw Denim walking on the side of the road and pulled over to chat with him. He described what many other hikers had mentioned. Denim's backpack was absolutely huge. And I'll post a photo of it because it does not look like a pack a thru hiker would carry. You know, they're meticulous down to weighing ounces of their toothbrush. Like chopping their toothbrush in half if. If it means saving an hour.

Cassie

Yeah. Going all in on the ultra light gear and really. Yep. Really making sure that things are light. And he's total opposite.

Danielle

Total opposite. It's like the size of him. He's the bat. The pack is absurdly large. And it's kind of like one of the first things that people noticed and kind of made him stick out because it just. That and early on, the genes, of course.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

And so that was one of the first things they talked about. He's like, hey, what's in your pack? And it turned out that Denim was still carrying all of his winter gear with him.

Cassie

And.

Danielle

And reminder, it is July in the south of Florida. So Mike, you know, being the trail angel that he was, offered to mail his. His belongings back, at least his winter stuff and things that he wasn't Utilizing at the time, he offered to mail it back to wherever his home was. Since they were, you know, in the. In the summer of, well, I guess this is spring, this is April. But still, since they were approaching the summer months and Denim declined doing that to Mike, Denham was polite, quiet, and in the photo that they took together, he seemed to be quite healthy. Mike even joked that he had pudgy cheeks when he smiled. Denim asked if there were any campsites in the area, and Mike recommended Camp Nobles, the place that Denham's body would eventually be found a couple months later. And then they parted ways and they never saw each other again. For all this information, the investigators seemed no closer to learning Denham's real name or what led to his death in Big Cyprus. For all the flurry of activity the online community kicked up about this case, the flyers that were circulated, and the attention that law enforcement gave to this one particular case, no friends or family stepped forward. And as new details about the case slowed, the now enormous community of Internet detectives began, became a bit of a story in its own right. In 2020, Nicholas Thompson, who is the editor in chief of Wired magazine, became fascinated by this story. A man who had managed to vanish in the digital age and the self appointed sleuths searching for his identity. His Wired story, which he titled A Nameless Hiker and the case the Internet can't crack went absolutely viral and it reached well over a million readers. Yet even still, something with that reach didn't crack the case because at first it's like, yeah, there's the Internet community and local law enforcement is doing that stuff, but it's kind of like localized to South Florida area. But this especially, you know, with Wired magazine, it's nationwide and still nothing comes in. However, that article added several thousand new Internet sleuths to Christie and Natasha's Facebook, Facebook groups, and others like them because there's a ton of subreddits and things like that happening as well. And at this point, folks in all of these groups were getting a little desperate trying to discover new leads. Eventually, Christy and her Facebook group submitted a Freedom of Information act request to the police department to obtain copies of the police report, complete with the autopsy photos. In their initial public release, along with the weird headshot that was distributed, the police described that faint scar on the abdomen. Remember, they're like, oh yeah, maybe he had some sort of injury or surgery at some point in the past.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

And when Chrissy was reviewing the autopsy photos for herself at this point, she was shocked because they made it seem like it was a faint scar, but. And I. I looked at it too, but it's about 4 inches long, and it runs from, like, right under his belly button area all the way down to, like, his groin. It's clearly defined. It looks like a prominent surgical scar, not just, like a little faint mark.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

And this discovery led the online community to kind of go crazy because they're like, okay, he must have undergone a massive surgery. What for? You know, what do people go under surgery for? And then, long story short, they basically came up with this story that he had terminal cancer based on a scar.

Cassie

Yes.

Danielle

And I'll tell you what the story behind that is. And.

Cassie

And what cancer, because it leads down another.

911 Operator

Weird.

Cassie

My first thought when you said the scar there was, like, his bladder, like, belly button to groin, like, that's his bladder area. So that was my first thought.

Danielle

Thought. Well, for them, their line of thinking is, okay, well, it's not uncommon for people with terminal diagnoses to want to go out on their own terms. And people who develop various cancers lost their appetite. It's confusing. They also thought there was reincarnated. Reincarnated ghosts happening. So I'm not connecting all the dots.

Cassie

I mean, I know that sometimes for heart stuff, they go into your groin and they do.

Danielle

Yes, absolutely.

Cassie

Stuff like that.

Danielle

But that's not a scar that large also. Yeah, for that type of surgery.

Cassie

But anywho, confused.

Danielle

But they're basically leave the Internet, but believe the Internet.

Cassie

Yeah, if it's on the Internet, it's true.

Danielle

So they're essentially saying he had some sort of terminal cancer and that caused him to lose his appetite. And that's why he. He was discovered, essentially starved to death. And that's why he was out there in the first place, because he wanted to, like, go out on his own terms in the wild. That was the story that they're, like, now thinking. All from this one photo of this one scar. So through that lens, people began combing the Internet for new leads, searching the Internet for Appalachian Trail and cancer. And soon they found a blog. In it, the author wrote about discovering he had cancer after a serious car accident and trying to take control of his life by hiking the Appalachian Trail. Then after several posts of this blog, the blog abruptly ends. So they're like, oh, my God, this is our guy. Like, he died. We know the end because he was found deceased in this tent. This is him. And another thing that they're pointing to is the author's name on this blog was Ben Reynolds, which many sleuths pointed out was not far from the Ben Bilamy name that was in the register at the hostel.

Cassie

Okay, so two bends.

Danielle

Two bends kind of close, right? So they're like. Well, we knew he was using an alias in the trail register or in the hostel register, so. But this Ben Reynolds is his true name. So of course, investigators are going to follow this lead and see if it checks out. But it turns out Ben Reynolds was also a pseudonymous, this time belonging to a man named Bill Powell, who was very much alive. Bill had chosen this alias to protect his privacy. He didn't want people to know his house was being left unattended during his Appalachian trail hike, which is a smart move. But he was very much alive at the time that the sleuths found his blog in real life, not in this made up scenario. And after his hike ended, he stopped writing in the blog to pursue treatment for his cancer, which was ultimately successful. He beat cancer and came out the other side, started a family, had a daughter, and moved on with his life. And then the messages started pouring in. Armchair detectives traced the blog back to Bill and believed that they had, quote, unquote, found their man. The only image of Bill in this blog was taken from behind, like. Like he's walking down a path on a trail. And the sleuth theorized endlessly about, you know, picked apart his body language, the way he was holding his body and trying to connect it to denim. Hundreds of people began messaging Bill and anyone associated with him online. His father, his sister, his friends, and anyone who had even liked Bill's posts on his Facebook or on his blog. That's much.

Cassie

I mean, don't get me wrong. I think that there are some. There are definitely stories, and maybe this will be one, too, where Internet sleuths really do crack open the case. And they put in way more dedication than sometimes even the police departments. And they, like, reopen. And there are instances where that happens, but that is just like. It feels like there's like a boundary that's being crossed right now to this man and his family.

Danielle

Well, they're just trying to fit the narrative. Right. It's like, I appreciate you checking out this lead for what it is, but you got your answer. Let's back off and pivot. And they didn't do that.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

You know, it's just a step too far. But going back to what you said about, you know, Internet sleuths, like, solving cases or helping to solve cases.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

This story, initially, when I was first researching it, and especially the documentary, just the Way it's filmed and stuff, it reminds me so much of the documentary Don't Fuck with Cats.

Cassie

Oh, yeah.

Danielle

Do you remember that story?

Cassie

I do.

Danielle

Oh, it's the same thing, you know, people online working together to solve a case.

Cassie

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it truly, it's cool to see what the Internet can do. You know, the Internet's a really cool place because it can be absolutely horrible and horrific and horrendous and really great things come out of it as well.

Danielle

And I think this story is a mixture of both.

Cassie

Okay.

Danielle

It's a good showcase of every side. So when Bill politely responded to these messages that, hey, it's me, not your guy.

Cassie

Hi, it's me.

Danielle

I'm alive, you know, the armchair detectives demanded proof that he truly was who he said he was and accused him of even being part of this conspiracy to throw them off the scent of like, you know, they're like, yeah, just accept you're wrong. Yeah, yeah. And move on.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

But at this point, Bill was worried that this harassment would spill over and that they would begin targeting his daughter's school and like, really infiltrating his life in, you know, more serious ways. So he joined Facebook groups and subreddits to personally debunk the theories and ask the groups to please stop with the harassment. However, people in the groups told him that, well, sorry, but we just can't rule you out. And one person specifically demanded him to prove that he was Ben Reynolds. When he reached out and posted in Natasha's Facebook group, she helped to shut that theory down. You know, basically putting her foot down and reminding people that, hey, outside of this Facebook community, these are real people on the other end of these investigations. Let's please have her some respect and boundaries. And as all of this was going on, news of the case and the rabid online community reached the desk of Othram, a Texas based genetic startup that markets itself as a forensic human identification service. With a sample of DNA, they're not necessarily able to identify the person's name, but of course, your DNA is a product of your heritage and your family tree is a product of where you are born and where your family is from. And by using these patterns, Othram prides itself on their ability to trace a person back to a region of the country to help narrow down the search. So in Denim's case, that would have been extremely helpful because there were so many competing stories from different memories of thru hikers that were coming forward with their experiences with Denim on the trail, because some remembered him saying he was from Brooklyn or maybe the Bronx. Others were like, no, I heard him say he was from Baton Rouge. Some people said it was Milwaukee or even New York or even Saratoga in New York. So there's a lot of different narratives coming through and people are remembering different things. So this would have been a great start, at least maybe to narrow down their focus. But. But there was a problem because running the DNA sample was pricey. It was about five grand, and it was a sum of money that at the time, this little sheriff's department in South Florida just didn't have the extra funds to dedicate to. So AAM looking for some good publicity because the story is now huge. And it was, of course they wanted to help, but I think it was like a good look for them and good marketing. They're like, hey, well, if you, you know, if we get the money and you fundraise, maybe you can fundraise for it. We would be happy to help. So that's what the Facebook groups did. Natasha's Facebook group in particular launched a crowdfunding effort, raising all of the money for this DNA testing in just over a week.

Cassie

At dsw, we ask the important questions,

Danielle

like, what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival

Cassie

season, or just planning the ultimate vacay,

Danielle

the right shoes can make or break an rsvp. So own the moment. You've got big plans, and we've got

Cassie

just the shoes at the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with designer shoe warehouse.

Danielle

Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today and let us surprise you.

Cassie

So good, so good, so good.

Danielle

New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom rack stores. Now get ready to save big with up to 60% off brands like Rag and Bone, Levi's, Adidas and free people. Join the NordicLub to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Investigators sent a small fragment of Denham's bone to the lab to begin the slow process of mapping his genetic history. The process in total would take around eight weeks to complete. And while the world waited for Othram to sequence the DNA, the atmosphere within the online groups grew increasingly toxic. Christy, who was the like, I'm the hammer woman. Like her kind of iron fist ruling policy that had driven Natasha to create her own group, she felt kind of boxed out because Natasha's group is the one that raised all this money for the Genetic testing. And by her own admittance in the documentary, she did say she started to feel desperate to solve the case before science did. So she's now in overdrive trying to fit these pieces together, because there's like that. About two months before the testing was going to come back, and according to Natasha, Christie began spreading rumors in Natasha's Facebook group saying that Natasha was being misleading and that the DNA tests were actually a hoax. And in truth, Natasha was just scamming people in this group out of their money and just taking it for herself. Ooh, so now she's spreading rumors in this other group.

Cassie

It's not even about finding out who this person is anymore. It's just like a bunch of egos fighting with each other.

Danielle

Yes. And while the DNA was being processed, the sheriff's office got a call from Christy and said. And she said, oh, I've solved it. I know who Denim is. Look no further here. Here he is. And she sent them this photo of this young man as proof that. Which is her. Her only, like, true evidence, I guess you could say. Like, she had her reasons here and there. But this was like the piece de la resistance of like, here he is, look at him. And it was this yearbook photo, black and white, and it was a young man named Ronald Newman. And of course, he looked many years younger than denim did at the time because it was from decades prior. High school graduation photo, and he was clean shaven. But she had taken a ballpoint pen and drew. Hand. Drew a beard on him to make him look more like denim.

Cassie

What?

Danielle

And gave it to the sheriff's office and said.

Cassie

And was serious.

Danielle

Dead ass serious. And she's like, hey, look, this is. They have such a resemblance. This is him.

Cassie

They have the same beard, right?

Danielle

So the police are like, okay, we'll follow up on this. And they. To their credit, they did. They're like, okay, we have this guy's name. We'll look into him. And yeah, so they basically called him. They're like, hey, hey, what's up?

911 Operator

Hello?

Danielle

Are you alive? And he's like, yeah, I'm very confused and also alive. So the same online community that had once turned on Natasha now aimed its anger at Christy because, yeah, they're like, what the hell are. What is this?

Cassie

It's like, we actually want to solve this case. What are you doing?

Danielle

And now she was the target of a lot of name calling, a lot of hostility, and she even got some death threats, too. So it's just.

Cassie

It's all around the Internet switches real quick.

Danielle

Switch asides. They have no allegiance to anyone. Maybe it's the simple fact that these groups formed on the Internet, which so often brings out the worst in people. But this story, in many ways, is a cautionary tale from the moderators right on down. What began for so many people as a well intentioned effort to help people erupted into whirlwinds of harassment, death threats, accusations, and hostility that spread far beyond the groups themselves. By all means, it can be rewarding to speculate on unsolved mysteries. It's like solving a puzzle. But in this case, for many people, it grew to be more than a mystery. And again, you can watch the documentary and read through the still active subreddits if you dare. I personally do not go near any sort of Reddit thread. They scare me. But it's clear that nearly everyone involved could have done with a little bit more humility. And it's worth noting that a lot of this was happening during 2020, with people cooped up at home and looking for something, you know, anything to find meaning in and to provide distractions.

Cassie

That is an exciting Covid project. Solve them. Solve a mysterious death case.

Danielle

Yeah, but also, people are really pissed off and angry, but some people are

Cassie

making sourdough bread and some people. Or solving mysterious cases.

Danielle

Yeah.

Cassie

Which one were you?

Danielle

Which were you? I. I didn't do either.

911 Operator

What was.

Danielle

Actually, I was gonna. I was working with you. No, you weren't.

Cassie

I didn't work during COVID Oh, yeah, you didn't.

Danielle

I was working.

Cassie

I was not. I was hiking in the White Mountains pretty much all of 2020.

Danielle

Didn't you get your yoga certification too, then?

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

Is that the year?

Cassie

I did that too. Yep. It's a big year. Had a kidney transplant, got a yoga certification, went hiking. Did not work.

Danielle

Healed. A year of healing.

Cassie

Yeah. Healed. Yeah. A year of healing. Truly for me.

Danielle

I quit. That was the year I quit. Well, I didn't quit.

Cassie

But you moved.

Danielle

2022 was the year I officially quit. I just moved. I quit that one clinic and moved. 2020 was a good year for me and I. Again, I'm afraid of the Internet. They're going to turn on me. I hate saying that because I know it was awful for a lot of people, but I really like it.

Cassie

It was hard for a lot of people. People, but it was a. Interesting year. Well, I remember I told our job that I was. I would be back.

Danielle

And I knew you were lying.

Cassie

Plot twist. I knew I was never coming back.

Danielle

And that's your Gemini speaking. Two sides to the coin at the same time.

911 Operator

Yep.

Danielle

You're like, you'll never see this face again.

Cassie

Like, yeah, I'll see you in eight weeks after I recover from my surgery.

Danielle

Little did you know, I'm like, oh, no, you will see me again and you'll work with me forever.

Cassie

I was like, sorry, we won't be working together anymore.

Danielle

And you're like, bitch, you thought.

Cassie

It's okay. I like this job way better.

Danielle

Good. Me too. Okay, so going back to 2020. It's December 2020 and the DNA results come in. During a Facebook live broadcast in Natasha's sleuth group, othram announced that the DNA results provided a concrete lead. The hiker had significant Cajun and Creole roots, placing him in south Louisiana. Immediately, people used this information and sprang into action. The sheriff's department sent official bulletins to Louisiana law enforcement. The author of the Wired article began running targeted online ads about his article in the state of Louisiana. And Facebook and Reddit groups posted to every single south Louisiana group they could find, hoping and praying that someone would eventually recognize. Mostly harmless because they're like, okay, we've been in a different part of the nation trying to get the word out. Let's pivot and let's just like flood Louisiana with this information. And for a week, crickets, nothing. People started to get a little bit deflated. But then, on the same exact day, two people reached out who recognized the man. There was a former roommate and a woman whose husband had worked with Denham at a store called Shopper's Choice. Both gave the same exact name, Vance John Rodriguez. Police quickly reached out to the Rodriguez family, but they had not heard from their son in months and. And didn't even know he was missing. They believed that he had moved to New York and chosen to stay silent. But after taking a DNA sample from the family, it was confirmed that mostly harmless was indeed Vance Rodriguez. Born In February of 1976 near Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He had a twin sister and an older brother. This discovery finally allowed the mystery to be put to rest and reward almost two years of dedicated work for both professional and amateur investigators. After years of speculation, many in these communities had grown really fond of this man at the center of the story. It had taken over their lives for the last two years. A lot of people had invested, you know, a lot of their own lives into figuring out this case. They had heard stories of his gentle kindness to the 68 year old hiker Magpie and his compassion with Brandon Dowell, bonding over their difficult childhoods and it didn't hurt that he was kind of handsome, leading many in the documentary to mention his blue sparkling eyes and silver threaded beard. But now that they knew his name, who was he really? Some of the details that emerged lined up with the prevailing image of the man as a tech genius. He was indeed a talented IT professional who friends described as most comfortable behind a keyboard. But for the most part, investigators and the public that had grown to feel so bonded to him did not like what they learned. After his name went public, multiple ex girlfriends came forward to describe patterns of emotional and physical abuse that they had suffered at his hands. One ex remembered Vance locking her out of their apartment during a winter in Brooklyn and said he'd threatened to release her credit card and Social Security numbers online if she ever left him. And there's more to that, too. Like this woman, she survived some sort of. I forget which one, but she survived a terrorist attack and had some pretty, pretty bad ptsd. And she clearly needed support from her friends and family and her partner. And he would like, keep tabs on how many times he had to help her and would like, hold it against her and.

Cassie

Oh, I hate that.

Danielle

Yeah. And another ex girlfriend who dated Vance for five years, called him a monster. The scar on his abdomen that once led to theories of terminal cancer turned out to be signs of a lifelong struggle with mental health. At age 15, Vance left home with a gun, walked into a field and shot himself in the stomach. But after he pulled the trigger, he changed his mind about ending his life, crawling back to help, and getting surgery that ultimately saved his life. According to some acquaintances, he was quite open about the scar later in life, donating blood regularly as a form of penance because he had needed so much of it to survive his self inflicted wound. His parents, fearing for his safety, committed him to an institution afterwards, something for which he never forgave them. Records emerged that when he was 17 years old, Vance was legally emancipated from his parents care, and he severed contact with them completely. These issues followed Vance for the rest of his life. A friend and former roommate described Vance as a bright but deeply troubled man. Occasionally, he would sink into deep depressive episodes that the roommate called outages, basically periods of time that Vance would not care for himself or others. He wouldn't, you know, do daily tasks for himself, work, or even really come out of his room and. And he would stay pretty solitary and not speak to anyone. And they could last for days, up to months. So he would just kind of go in and out of these cycles and overall, coworkers and former roommates noted that, you know, despite his struggles with his mental health, he was pretty introverted, solitary, but pleasant and kind. He grew. At one time, he grew out his hair so long it almost touched his waist. And then he cut it all off just to donate to Locks of Love. He donated blood all the time. And then we have these reports from his ex girlfriends about how he treated them. So I think it's pretty. It mirrors a lot of what people experienced with him on the trail of, like, having one version of him that is different than other people's experiences. And, you know, his family and friends and everyone had a different version of him, I think.

Cassie

Yeah. Well, I think it's also. It's super complicated because I think that people are very different inside relationships, outside of who they are in other capacities. Like, it's just a very different role. So to hear that he is, like this great, loving person to everyone, but the people he's in a relationship with, I feel like that's pretty common in, you know, a lot of. When you hear a lot of domestic abuse situations, people are like, I could never believe that he's so amazing. Like, he's so nice to everyone. He's. He goes to church, he helps with the. He donates to charity. He does all these things. But privately, it's a different story. They're a totally different story. And I think that's why a lot of people are, like, so shocked when they hear that they're abusers, because they're so great in other aspects of life.

Danielle

Well, I love that you say that, because in the documentary, both Magpie and Brendan, the guy who shared that campsite with him and that deep conversation at the campsite, both of them were admitted that they were absolutely shocked to hear.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

These details emerge about him because their experience was just such a polar opposite. And even Magpie, both Brandon cried because he had such a profound experience with him, and he was so upset. And he does go on record, he's like, there's no excuse for that behavior. And I condone that. And even Magpie, too, was like, I. You know, it's upsetting to hear that. But both of them did say, like, we had profoundly different experiences and also memorable ones. I mean, they are on this documentary, however, many years later, saying how deeply impactful their experience was with him. And it was for, like, a brief moment in time. A day.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

You know, so, anyway, I just wanted to say that there's just a lot of dimension here, going on, truly. And his family for their part, you know, of course they were contacted and they were asked to participate in, you know, press releases and documentaries and things like that. And they had no comment at all. So clearly they are estranged from him since he was emancipated. And then another thing that surprised people at least that knew him, friends and co workers and roommates and stuff, of how he was discovered deceased in a tent in Florida. For them, they were shocked that he was even outdoors. They, one of his former roommates was quoted as saying, you know, the wild or outside for Vance, the Vance that he knew was the space between the car and his apartment.

Cassie

Oh, wow. So had no relationship with the outdoors at all?

Danielle

No. And it kind of, like I said, ties back to the jeans. Hiking in jeans. At first, the huge backpack and even the tent. It was a. The guy who sold it commented of like, yeah, that tent was actually really hard to sell because we're on this through hiking route that people are doing ultralight, small, compact tents and this is kind of a big, bulkier, two person tent and.

Cassie

Mm.

Danielle

And so that's kind of why he remembered selling it to him.

Cassie

Interesting.

Danielle

So yeah, it's just, it seems like he just decided to leave. Yeah, you know, he wasn't an avid outdoorsman to begin with. So anyway, long story short, this all dramatically changed and clashed with this romantic image of Vance that had flourished online over the years. That this gentle, kind, quiet man existed, you know, and needed to be identified. And now all this information is just adding complexity to the situation. Many were unwilling to accept this information of his violent and troubled past, calling it fake news. But while it wasn't easy, many of the people closest to him, the thru hikers, accepted it. The documentary sits with people, like I said, like Magpie and Brandon, as they try to bridge the distance between the kindness that they witness and the cruelty that others reported.

Cassie

Yeah, I just want to. That kind of upsets me a little bit because this is why. And I think people need to be cognizant of this online, especially when you do not have a personal relationship with these stories and you're just speculating from afar. It's like this is why women have a hard time reporting stuff like this and domestic abuse because of things like this where these people seem so kind and friendly and have all these great wonderful qualities, but are a totally different person at home. So then when you're like, well no, that that's impossible. They're great outside of here. Those women know that, you know, that's

Danielle

why they spent five year plus years with this person day in and day out and now people who had a. I'm not calling out Brandon and Magpie particularly because there are other people that contributed. You know, they are just highlighted in the documentary. But they're like, no, he was great. I it was wonderful and kind and pleasant and it was the best. And he seemed so nice.

Cassie

And those limited interactions versus these women who see all of these sides who know the side you're talking about but have experienced the private side in their home. And yeah, that's just, just a food for thought. If you are looking at something from an outside perspective and have no inside connection to this. To completely denounce a woman saying that she was abused is not right.

Danielle

That's right.

Cassie

And that's my. That's all I have to say on that. Thank you for saying it fires me up.

Danielle

I know. I love when you have and another thing moment because I feel like they're usually me. The truth of Vance's real name also helped to uncover the meaning behind Mostly Harmless, a name whose dark irony only grew the more people learned about him. Investigators discovered Vance's profile for Screeps, that programming game under the username Vejor for Vance John Rodriguez. He posted quote, I'm mostly harmless for now in the Screeps Slack channel back in January of 2017, before he had abandoned his Brooklyn apartment and set out on the trail. And the trail name itself seemed to be a reference to the last book in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, which was titled Mostly Harmless. In a series otherwise known for being funny. This final book has a darker tone. The protagonist, Arthur Dent, is adrift in life. He has no fixed home. He's cut off from the people he knew and settles into a low tech life before the book ends with him and the earth dying. Given Vance's love of sci fi, it's not hard to connect this book to his own story and his mysterious death. People began examining the book as if he had chosen it was his suicide note. The documentary quotes several passages like this is not your home. You don't have one. None of us have one. Hardly anybody has one anymore. They don't even have any memory of who they are or what they're for. And another passage, right before the main character in the book dies, says a tremendous feeling of peace came over him. He knew that at last, for once and forever, it was now all finally over. Magpie, Brandon and other hikers who met him suggested Vance was grappling with his violent past. Maybe he was running from it. The name, mostly harmless, was perhaps a way of recognizing, in a tongue in cheek way, a chapter of his life he sought to distance himself from. But for whatever the reason he went into the woods, folks began to believe that he chose to never return, that he died by suicide, choosing to starve himself, however horrible way to go out that sounds to be. And in the end, a core piece of what made this story popular proved to be wrong. People believed that Vance was an unknown for so long because he had so expertly covered his tracks online, that he was so skilled in erasing evidence that people who knew him and loved him couldn't find him. But the truth, it seems, was that no one he knew was looking for him in the first place.

Cassie

Oof.

Danielle

Which is just so sad. Sad. It's just so deeply sad, you know? And of course he did shitty things, but that is it hits for all of the hurt that Vance caused in his life, the hikers who'd met him on the trail still wished that he found peace either in life, death, or the afterlife. Maggie accepted the truth of Vance's violent past and hoped that after the kindness he had shown her that he sought redemption by setting out on the trail. Brandon was so moved by the compassion Vance had shown him, trading tales of troubled childhoods, that he even wrote a song about it, which is played at the end of the documentary. Christy and Natasha, the Facebook moderators, took their own lessons from the experience. Christy nearly quit sleuthing after the backlash of her ballpoint pen incident. Pengate.

Cassie

Yeah, a good time to retire for sure.

Danielle

Well, she stuck with it and counted the solved case as an affirmation. She has since pursued other missing persons cases and joined different Facebook groups to help identify the unidentified. Natasha, moved by the success of finding an answer and crowdfunding the successful DNA test, opted to swear off sleuthing. She wanted to focus on the real world instead, and actually started her own kayaking and canoe company. Occasionally she dips back into sleuthing if a case calls to her in the right way. But the experience overall was like let me reground in nature and get back to what I love here. According to namus, the National Missing and Unidentified Person System, the national centralized repository and resource center for the missing, unidentified and unclaimed person cases across the United States, at any given time, 90,000 people may be reported missing, and it is not unheard of for there to be well over 10,000 sets of unidentified human remains held in coroner offices throughout the country. Without identities, it is impossible to know who they were. And I don't just mean their name, but in all senses of the word, if they were kind or ruthless, had lovers, friends or enemies, if they did harm or good in this life. So hopefully this story encourages people to think twice about looking at that missing persons flyer they pass on the road or sharing that. Have you seen me post online? Because while it is true that not everyone deserves to be respected, identification is a dignity everyone deserves in the end. And that is the story of mostly harmless Vance John Rodriguez.

Cassie

Wow, that was super interesting. And I think a topic that we've never really touched on, which is Internet sleuthing, which I think we're seeing more and more of. And we kind of talked about it already in the episode. But it's just such a, interesting place to be because you have this one side that can be like a little bit crazy and do things that are a little outlandish, but then you have other things where cases are truly being solved. And these missing people who maybe they're cases just kind of fell to the wayside because there's only a certain number of dedicated people who to work on it and they have other cases and things pile up and new things happen. Having all of these other people who are kind of in the back end still interested and solving these things that maybe otherwise would have never been solved, it's just, it's an interesting concept and obviously very complicated.

Danielle

Yeah. The good and bad.

Cassie

This is a story that I've never heard.

Danielle

Me neither, Me neither. And like I said, it gives such don't with cats vibes. So if you're, of course, if you want to know more about this case, I feel like, I feel like this was a pretty in depth episode. But if you want, you know, more. Definitely there's the three part podcast that I talked about, but that was kind of truly in the moment. There was none of this follow up information. But of course they call them mostly harmless on hbo. But yeah, don't fuck with cats is also. If you're in the Internet sleuthing, you know, vibe and you kind of just want more of that, that's another. I don't think there was much. I'm trying to think back. I don't think it was as much of a divide amongst the Internet community. Like I feel like it was a little more wholesome and they're not like battling each other. But yeah, they, the Internet really came together to apprehend, help apprehend a really horrific. I mean a murderer.

Cassie

Yeah.

Danielle

So he was much more violent and the reason that the alarm was raised on that guy. I forget his name. It's escaping me. But the reason the alarm, you know, on the Internet, people were like, what? Who is this guy? He was killing cats online.

Cassie

Yeah. Which is kittens. Yeah. Who does that?

Danielle

Seriously?

Cassie

A murderer. A murderer.

911 Operator

Yeah.

Cassie

Yeah. Truly. But, yeah. I would be so curious if anyone listening is in this kind of community, Sleuther. And if you've, like, helped solve any crimes or you've. Or you've watched it unfold online, I'd just be so curious because I've never. I've never personally dived into that world, but I do think it's. It's interesting and certainly a way to help pass time if you have that time available, you know, and if you

Danielle

have that, like, innate, you know, like, Christy, she was like, I. I always wanted. Yeah, she works for a dry cleaning service, but her passion and her dream was always to work for the FBI. And that was just her way of, you know, contributing. And, you know, if you have that bug and you may. That may not be, you know, your life or attainable to you of like, you know, you're like, I have a job and a family and a life and kids, and I can't just, like, quit everything and go to school.

Cassie

It's a side gig.

Danielle

It's a side hustle. Yeah.

Cassie

Yeah. And that truly could change someone's lives if you are really closing these cases. Yeah.

Danielle

And investigators reach out to the public in situations like this for a reason. You know, they need the crowdsourcing and the help because the more minds onto something, the more eyes, ears, experiences, the better or worse, depending, I guess. But.

Cassie

And truly, with this one, I feel like if all of these Internet sleuths hadn't gotten so interested in it, it probably would have been a case where it was just like, we don't know who it is. We'll keep it on the website as a missing person, but we have other things to do to focus on, to focus on, and we can't dedicate years and months and whatever to this. So I feel like because of these groups, it kept the case alive. And that's why we probably eventually found answers. Well, obviously, because they crowdsourced the DNA test. But, yeah, I think that when you have eyes on something, it's more likely to be solved.

Danielle

Yeah. All right, well, that's it for. For that.

Cassie

Great. Well, thank you for telling that story. Thank you for bringing us to a park that we have never talked about on the podcast before. Thank you, everyone, for hanging out with us. We will see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye everyone.

Danielle

Bye.

Cassie

Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more MPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark.

Danielle

For more stories just like this one, with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple Subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

Cassie

Insurance isn't One size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's Name youe Price Tool for years now. With the Name youe Price Tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com, find a rate that works for you with the Name youe Price Tool Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law.