JAKE SHANE: “I Was Scared People Would Find Out Who I Am”

A

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B

of these things happened to younger Jake, his whole life would be complete and he would be able to be happy and have it be over. I was so fulfilled while I was on Broadway. And then the second it was over, I'm like, well, what now?

A

Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a a minute and I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Shake. Shane. Welcome to On Purpose. It is great to finally have you here. And I've been so excited for this because ever since I came on your show, I fell in love with you. And every time I see you at a party or an event, whatever it may be, you are the sweetest, kindest person. So thank you for being here.

B

Thanks for having me. I've been so excited about this. I'm so happy we finally figured it out and we're able to do it.

A

So we've been trying to schedule dinner for a while.

B

Yes.

A

And it's fallen through. You've had crazy travel. I've had a bit of moving scheduling, and I missed. I think it was your birthday end of last year, October 27th. So I think it's like your half birthday right now, if that's even a thing.

B

Oh, my God, it is about to be my half birthday.

A

So I wanted to offer you a little gift that I got for you. And so what we did is we actually sponsored a real octopus. And they.

B

I know this thing.

A

The world. The World Wildlife Fund sent us this. And there is now an octopus in your name.

B

Wait, really?

A

Yeah, genuinely. That is now being cared for and taken care of.

B

Oh, that's amazing. God, I should stop eating them.

A

Well, that was the hope that this would balance it out. That this. This would balance it out. But, Jake, I wanted to ask you. You are having an incredible moment. It's so fun seeing you everywhere. It's so fun seeing you win. It couldn't happen to a better person. What is this chapter of your life called? And why?

B

It's funny you asked that. I've been journaling so much lately in the. Like, just. And I never journal and I've been journaling and I feel like I'm kind of. You know that part when you're, like, in the ocean and it's like the calm before a really big wave? That's kind of what I feel like this is. It feels. Everyone's like, you're doing so much. Everything's happening, everything's happening. But it feels very tame right now. Maybe this week specifically. But I don't know if that's just because I just. When I just got off Broadway, that was like a big. Whole big thing. And now it just feels very tame. I don't know what this chapter would be.

A

Okay, talk to me about what you're journaling about. Like, when did you start that and what's that been like?

B

I started journaling after I had this, like, time in January, where I felt really shitty about myself and I started journaling, like, really shitty things. And then somebody was like, you should journal. I think it was somebody told me that they like to journal to remember things that they would never remember. So, like, I saw Jay today and he gave me an octopus. Like, just some little things like that. Something I wouldn't remember. I would remember doing this interview, but I might not remember the octopus or the breath strips that you have in your bathroom. Just, like, little things like that that I have just started journaling about. And it helps me, like, kind of like explain my thoughts out loud in a way. Like, I'm very good at speaking my thoughts, but sometimes journaling helps put them together.

A

That's very helpful for me to hear, too, because I like speaking my thoughts, too. I do a lot of audio journaling.

B

Yeah.

A

But there is something different about writing it down. I think you're so right that we actually miss. I've. I've become friends with someone recently who, like, probes me and challenges me and will ask me, like, what's the most beautiful thing you saw today?

B

Yeah.

A

And I'll almost all of a sudden be like, oh, crap, I don't even know. And I'm like, wait a minute. I saw lots of beautiful things today, or I experienced lots of beautiful things today. But because we don't write it down or because we don't share it, like you said, you just forget about it and just disappears.

B

I think I also feel like journaling. I'm. Everything is going to get exposed or everything is going to come out, or everything is going to happen all at once or something. Someone's going to find out that something like, I'm not, like, who I say I am or something. And I feel like journaling, like, writing it down physically is, like, the one place where I know my thoughts are safe.

A

Yes.

B

Like, I'm always scared of, like, my thoughts escaping my head, if that makes sense. It's like. It's like an OCD thing.

A

Explain. Explain.

B

It's confession. Ocd. It's like you feel like you have to. That's why I'm so honest, because I feel like I have to tell everybody every side of who I am or else somebody will find it and use it against me.

A

Yes. Right.

B

Like, writing stuff down in a journal is, like, the one place that it feels safe. Like, even typing on a laptop. I'm scared that someone's gonna take my laptop.

A

Yes. Yes.

B

Or like, it's like a very paranoid thing.

A

Yeah. Yeah. No, no. But that makes Sense, Especially in today's world. And the hard part now is you're trying to say everything, but not everyone has the ability to listen to everything you ever say. And therefore, having a safe space where you can truly be honest with yourself, I'm guessing, is. Is huge.

B

Yeah. And it's. It used to be so much easier, I guess. I used to think my podcast was bigger than it was because once it went on Netflix and became bigger, people will tell you, like, your opinion is wrong, and it. Not only is it wrong, it's bad. And, like, my biggest fear is being, like, a bad bad or, like, bad or doing something wrong. And so, like, I've been struggling with, like, saying, being everyone's like, oh, you're so relatable. It's like, well, I've had had trouble being relatable lately because I'm scared of saying the relatable thing is wrong. Do you know what I mean?

A

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do know what you mean. You're saying that what made you successful was being relatable.

B

Yeah.

A

And now you're worried that saying that thing is the same thing that's going to be scrutinized because the platform's got so much bigger. Is that right?

B

Yeah. People are just like, I don't know. I'm like, I've had a hard time collecting my thoughts lately.

A

Yeah, it's hard.

B

Yeah.

A

But it is hard because I feel like we're so overwhelmed by opinions, feedback, expectations, stats, data, numbers, comments. Like, it's. It is an insane amount of data to hold.

B

Yeah.

A

Like, it's insane.

B

It's a lot. And it's. It's. I've been spending more time, like, kind of. Well, I was about to say I was spending more time off my phone, but I haven't, so. I love the honesty. Not true.

A

Yeah, I love the honesty.

B

Yeah. You asked what this chapter of my life would be called, and I. I genuinely don't know. I feel kind of, like, confused how I got here and, like, kind of confused as to, like, what's happening.

A

Yeah. Yeah, that's fair, though.

B

I also started smoking weed again, so there's that.

A

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B

Whenever I think about that, it's like, if one of these things happened to younger Jake, it would. His whole life would be complete, and it would be. He would be able to be happy and have it be over, essentially. I was so fulfilled while was on Broadway, and I felt. And then the second it was over, I'm like, well, what now? You're going from doing a show every single night of the week to doing then nothing. When you're doing a live show, it's almost like unanimous validation. Like, everyone's there because they love you and they see you, but when you're putting something out online, you're kind of, like, opening it up to people, being like, I don't like this. I think that was kind of hard for me. I always felt that way after I got off tour, after I got off Broadway. That's been difficult.

A

You're not trying to be right even in what you say. You're just literally giving musings and reflections, and it's almost like, I don't know how you can be wrong.

B

It was never that I was trying to be right until somebody was like, wait, you're wrong. And then I was like, wait, I can be wrong.

A

That's what I mean. Like, I just see you as someone who's, like, giving your opinion, being vulnerable, sharing. Like, I'm like, where does right and wrong even come into that?

B

I know. And I missed talking about, like, my dating life as well. And I feel like I'm not able to do that anymore. Like, therapist was always, like, kind of an outlet for me to, like, talk about stuff like that. But then I would see guys, and they'd be like, well, I saw on the show. And I was like, and what would

A

they say to you?

B

Like, that they would see. That they would know that I was talking about them on the show.

A

Oh, okay.

B

And because it happens in such real time that I'm like, I can't talk about it anymore.

A

And that would upset them because they'd feel exposed even if you didn't Even

B

if I don't say anything about them, anyone would feel exposed. I'm like, I don't want to make them. And then I don't want that to prohibit me from. I. I don't know. I don't.

A

Improved your dating life not talking about it on the show?

B

Kind of. Yeah, a little. Yeah.

A

So that's a good thing. A little something good came out.

B

But I miss talking about it. I miss being like, this happened. This happened. That. Yeah. I don't know.

A

God, that's. Yeah, that's. That's a. That's a, like, predicament right there.

B

Yeah.

A

Like, which way do you go? Which. Which way is your heart pulling you right now?

B

My heart is saying, if the situation is over, you can speak about it. As long as there are no, like, identifying figures to who this person may be.

A

Yeah.

B

Especially if they're private.

A

Right.

B

You know, and so that's, like, what my, like, heart is telling me. Because I want, I think, like, being gay, it's like, it's a weird experience. It's a weird dating experience. I've always kind of. I prided myself in being able to, like, talk about how weird it is. And so I think if my. Where my heart is telling me is if the situation is over, I can speak about it as long as no one will ever find out who it is besides my best friends.

A

Right.

B

Or you. I can tell you right after.

A

Right after this.

B

Because I can't keep my mouth shut.

A

Yeah. As a straight man. Talk to me about what dating is like as a gay man. In a way that I would understand

B

it from my experience. A lot of the gay dating scene is. Is online. And I think that's where a lot of gay men find, like, community is online. Because they might live their life closeted or. And search for an outlet and have. And that can be on hinge or whatever dating app. And so when you're on a dating app, like, the first jump is obviously aesthetics than looks. And if you're attracted to this person, of course there's prompts and you're like, whatever. And the prompts may be charming and whatnot, but it has been, for me, very visual based. And that's, like, led to a lot of stuff with, like, my body or being comfortable and all that. But as. Yeah, it's. It's. It's been lonely. I would describe it as very lonely.

A

Wow.

B

Yeah.

A

Wow. That doesn't sound fun.

B

It's not fun. It's very lonely. And I know I'm not alone in that experience. And I think I would always talk about how I wanted a boyfriend on my podcast and how lonely it was to not have one. And then when people started, when other people online started talking about my looks and how if I was ugly or whatever, my whole bit was complaining that I didn't have a boyfriend. I felt like, unvalidated. And then I felt like I needed to shut up. And then the whole experience is lonely. I didn't make any sense just now and.

A

No, no, no, no, I get what you're saying.

B

I'm like, really trying to find my

A

thoughts and I like that. I appreciate that's probably one of my favorite things to do is to hear someone actually be vulnerable and open and figure things out. Like. Yeah, if you can articulate how you feel perfectly, then you're not really thinking about it anymore. It's. It's a conclusion. Like. Yeah, you're already kind of there. So I like that you're trying to find your way and. And I'm with you all the way. And then obviously you, you show us your incredible new physique at Coachella.

B

I know.

A

And it goes viral and everyone's talking about it.

B

That feels really good because I've been working for years for a really, really, really long time on my body, and then it feels good to get a little more male validation from that. So I've discovered that I like kind of male. Being gay and dating feels like I'm experiencing what straight people experience in high school. But now, right. That's like kind of. I feel like I'm 10 years late. Got it on, like what a 16 year old girl would experience.

A

Got it understood. That helps. That really helps. And it's people like me too. I mean, I'll just be. I, I DM Jake straight away, go. I need that workout and that diet now.

B

It says it was a spray tan and angles, but it was also, it was. I've been working really, really hard.

A

Yeah, we've seen the Aloe Gym stories. Yeah. Working out. What. What is that experience been like? Like, I think, you know, jokes aside, like, there's a, there's a seriousness. So I was overweight growing up. I was bullied for being overweight. I also grew up in an area that wasn't Indian, so I was bullied for the color of my skin. I know what that feels like. I then was lucky enough to get fit and healthy, do well at school. You know, I've been with my wife now for 13 years or whatever. And it's like I worked through all of that for you, what has this journey been like, where you're like, wait a minute. People are saying these things about me. I'm getting into shape because I'm working out for myself anyway. But now I get validation. It feels good. But I'm the same guy who I was three years ago. Like, talk to me about that.

B

It's so funny. I saw a photo of myself from like two years ago when I was bigger, and it's almost like I can't believe. And this is just me being completely honest, like, that I lived life looking like that or feeling that way. Because, like, and I. And I. And I don't mean to sound horrible in saying that I feel like I'm a lot more. I. I feel like, if you can tell, I'm like, a lot more cautious with what I say nowadays. But it's like both this feeling of, like, I feel so attractive and I feel so proud of my work. And then I get this feeling of, like, embarrassment that people saw me the. The way I used to look.

A

Wow.

B

Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I get. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I didn't even think about it during posting it. It kind of just like, happened. My trainer calls it like the iceberg effect. Like, one day you just kind of start to look different and it kind of just goes like, or whatever, which way. It's been weird. It feels very good to get compliments. And then I'm like, I start to base all my happiness and compliments about how I look, and then I'll have this, like, fake sense of confidence that I'll have from all those compliments and it'll get shattered by like, one old video of me where I didn't. I used to be bigger.

A

You know, you talk a lot about imposter syndrome and, and that's what you're kind of experiencing now, which is like this. I'm really proud of myself for what I built and what I'm doing, both career wise, physically, everything. Everything that you're doing. And at the same time, there's this feeling of embarrassment from how you were before, or also looking at it as a child and thinking, oh my gosh, Jake, little Jake would have been happy for one of these things. But now I'm unfulfilled. Talk to me about how you get anything done when you are so sensitive, because I think that says a lot about you, because I think that is a universal thing we all experience. We're all more sensitive than we make it out to be. We're all more affected by negativity than we make it out to be. But some people get stuff done and some people don't. What's the difference in being sensitive and building as much as you have and getting stuff done versus kind of going, I can't get out of bed today.

B

I think it's about the people you surround yourself with. If I was alone, every day would get nothing done. Thank God I have my roommate Brett. Thank God I have my best friends Peyton and Julia and Alice and my whole team. That makes me feel better about everything because if I didn't have them, I wouldn't get anything done. And there's kind of like experiences like doing Broadway where it's like people bought tickets to this. You have to get on stage and you have to do this no matter what people say. I used to look on Reddit all the time. I don't look on Reddit anymore. I. And then I would. I moved from Reddit to Twitter. I don't look on Twitter anymore. So, like, there's certain things that you can do to help yourself, and it's kind of like ignorance is bliss. If you have that mindset. Like, you have to like, go into it knowing that if something was really, really, really wrong, people will tell you. Like Louise would tell me.

A

Yeah. So you're almost saying, like, limit your exposure.

B

Yeah.

A

To all those things that just increase your sensitivity to a point that you just can't be yourself anymore.

B

Which is hard though, because a lot of my humor is very self deprecating and I would take a lot of those things. But it's gotten hard to look at because it's gotten like, real specific and real nasty.

A

Really? Like what's. What's been the one that gets to you the most?

B

That I'm like, bad spirited or like I have like a bad heart or like, I'm not a good person. That is the one that always, like, really, really kills me, like, because I feel that way about myself all the time that you are. That I'm a bad person. It's like I was talking to my therapist about it. It is like a form of ocd, just feeling like you're dirty and like a bad person and like your thoughts are bad and like everything about you is like. I think that's like kind of like a trail of OCD that you see it in people that are very clean and see it in people who have intrusive thoughts. Like, it's like those things. Things about being infected. So when I read something about me Being a bad person, that really upsets me. And I can read anything about me being bad at my job that I don't care about. I really. I thought if someone said I was bad at my job, it would hurt me more than it does, but it really doesn't. It's more about who I am as a person that really kills me, by the way.

A

I feel the same way as you do. If someone thinks that I'm, like, inherently a bad person.

B

Yeah.

A

It, like, hurts me to my core because I can see all of myself.

B

Yeah.

A

Like, I've seen the shadow sides of myself.

B

Yeah.

A

And I've seen the good sides of myself. And it's almost easier if you never thought there was anything bad about you, because then you wouldn't even believe it.

B

Right.

A

But I want to be able to see what I need to work on, and I want to be able to see the parts of myself I need to improve. But it gets to, like, a really dangerous, murky place when everyone who doesn't know you and has never met you thinks you might be a bad person.

B

Right.

A

And then. And then, like, God, what do you do with that?

B

The thing that I remind myself is that, like, my friends wouldn't be my friends if I was a bad person, because my friends are good people. That's the one thing that I'll always remind myself is, like, well, I've had the same friends for 10, almost 10 years now, and they would tell me if something shifted in me. I don't need Twitter to tell me if something shifted in me, because Brett would tell me.

A

Yeah. I love that. I think the idea that the people that know you most deeply, most intimately, who've actually seen you when you're hungry, stressed, tired.

B

Yeah.

A

They're the ones who can actually tell you where you're at.

B

Yeah.

A

And someone who's only seen one clip of you or one video of you doesn't really have a. Have a picture of who you are in life. And it's. That's a great one. And I love. I mean, I love the people around you. I mean, Peyton, obviously, is one of my. I have to give a shout out to Payton.

B

We have to. Payton loves Jay more than life itself.

A

I have to give a shot. I love you, too. Yeah.

B

Is the best.

A

Yeah. She's awesome. And, like, everyone that you're surrounded by, like, I've. I've loved meeting the people you're around as well. And it was evident when I came on the show. And for anyone who's wondering, Jake is not a Bad dude. So thank you. Just throwing it out there. Like, whether I see you at a party, an event, whether we're texting, whatever it is, like, you're always the same. You're always the kindest and the sweetest, and thank you. And you're a good person. You're a good guy. So thank you for whatever it's worth.

B

I did need to hear that, so thank you.

A

I'm throwing it out there.

B

Thank you.

A

As you said, you share so much of your life online, you're having to be a bit more careful, especially in the dating area. What's something that you think you're discovering about yourself that you haven't yet fully talked about publicly? Like, things that are new, things that are coming up where you're like, oh, I kind of just discovered this last weekend, and I want people to know about it. Or I'm learning this new thing about myself that people might be surprised to know.

B

I love sitting in the shower.

A

Sitting in the shower?

B

Yeah. And laying down.

A

What do you take, like, a stool?

B

No, I just sit on the ground.

A

So how long will you sit in the shower for?

B

30 minutes.

A

Wow. And what do you do?

B

Just listening to music.

A

Okay.

B

I think what I discovered lately about myself is that writing stuff down is so fun because nobody can get that. Get to it besides you. There's no computer bug that can get inside your computer and get what you're writing. Like, that is on paper. Like, that is for you. Like, those are. Your journal is really like, your brain. Like, it is. So, like, unless somebody came into your room and took your journal out and started reading it. Which feels way more invasive than, like, a computer bug. Cause I feel like, as a society, we're accustomed to people, like, hacking other people. And, like, that's always, like, a fear I've. That I've had, which I know is an OCD thing. But journaling. I've really, really been journaling a lot lately, and I've discovered that that's really, really good for me and that weed probably isn't.

A

This seems to be, like, a running trend right now, this discovery that weed is not good for you.

B

Yeah. And I've also discovered that when I'm feeling confident about myself, my body is shaved. I, like, groom myself properly. Like, I take care of myself. And when I'm not, it's like, not. And I feel gross.

A

And how's that connected to weed?

B

Because when I'm smoking more, I feel gross more often.

A

Right. I got my brain scanned by Dr. Daniel. Amen. I don't know if you've ever done.

B

I've heard of him. I want to do it.

A

My friends, you should definitely go and do it, because I think he'll be able to talk to you about at least what weed's doing to your brain.

B

I know.

A

And then you'll be able to see the difference. Then that visual kind of, like, sticks in your head because you're like, oh, wow. Like, that's what's going on.

B

Well, when we talked.

A

Yeah.

B

I think I was sober from weed. I don't think I was smoking at the time.

A

Interesting. What took you back to it?

B

I wanted to look cool in front of this person. And so I started smoking again, and it just slowly but surely, it was like. But it makes me so creative.

A

Yeah.

B

I make my, like, funniest. I get really. I get. There's, like, 20 minutes of, like. Like, where, like, no one can tell me shit and, like, I am the funniest person in the world to myself.

A

Yeah.

B

And I'm almost brought back to, like, the days of, like, where I was first posting on the Internet and, like, that type of humor that I elicited, and that's, like, kind of what I love about smoking weed. But then there's the 20 minutes after that where I feel like, yeah.

A

Is that where all the dance videos are coming back and everything?

B

Yeah, that's.

A

That's.

B

I'm always high when I'm dancing.

A

Yeah.

B

I'm always high.

A

That's so good. And. Yeah. I mean, that's like a. That's a great conversation to have with someone like Dr. Daniel. Amen. Actually, I feel like. Because he. He's like. He knows. He knows the benefits of the creativity, but they know everything else that you're feeling, and it's. It's a fascinating thing. I want to go back to the general thing because I think what you're saying is I feel like as your life gets more public.

B

Yeah.

A

Your private life becomes more important. And I always say to people, I'm always like, my private life's better than my public life. So if someone thinks my public life is good, which. Which I think it looks good, I'm like, my private life is way better, and I keep it to myself because I. You almost need. It's a weird one, because you're like, I built my whole career on sharing everything, and that's what's been so cool. But it's almost like there is a beauty in having something that's just yours. Yeah. And that's what your journal represents.

B

Yeah. And I Always kind of had this like false dream of like celebrity and what that meant. And I always thought it was cool when someone was so wanted to know about your private life. And I think I'm coming into realizing that it's not this glamorous thing that I've built up in my head for people to like speculate on your private life in this. Like, I always grew up thinking that it was like so cool, like all these like women people would be like, who are they dating? What's going on with them? And I, I always thought it would make me feel more attractive almost if people like wondered about who I was dating. But then if someone wonders about who I'm dating and they think that I'm too ugly for that person, then that, like, you know, I didn't think about the downside. I don't know if I'm making sense.

A

That is making so much sense. But what's so fascinating about it is that when you're consuming that content, like if someone's, yeah. If someone's on Instagram and they see, oh, so and so is dating or whatever, like, oh, is this person good looking enough for this person, whatever it is, right. If someone sees that, we all love that, right. Like, we will get addicted to it. We're talking about with our friends. We're like, can you believe so and so are together now? Like, whatever. But when you're going through it, it's the worst experience in the world. I've coached so many of my clients through public divorces or moments or whatever it may be. And I will say it right now, like, those people, no matter how rich they are, no matter how much, how famous they are, no matter how successful they are, having your divorce or breakup happen publicly is not easy and not fun in any way. Yeah. And it doesn't matter how much money you have. So what I'm hearing is, I agree with you. I think when you hear about people, you're, oh, they're so desirable. They're so, yeah, you know, mysterious. That's so cool. And then when you're the mysterious, desirable

B

one, and I don't think I've ever really been that, but I've had moments where you're getting there, maybe hopefully felt like that and then. But I immediately feel the downside. And I think, and I've always struggled with this is I want everyone to like me always. I can't take when someone doesn't like me. It was always hard for me to not have people like me in my personal life. But then when that's your job as well. And people don't like you, and you kind of just have to, like, keep it moving with. And you can't. Like, when I grew up, if someone didn't like me, I would try to handle why they didn't like me. But when you're a public figure and you're putting out a show, someone doesn't like you, you can't address every single person that doesn't like you. You have to just keep it moving.

A

Yeah.

B

I think that's what I've been trying to. I've been struggling with.

A

Yeah. I. I remember that when. When I feel like I first came into more notoriety or people being aware of who I was and I wanted to, like, sit every person down.

B

Yeah.

A

Who didn't like me. And I wish I could, like, set a day where I just sat with each person one on one, and, like, held their hands and looked into their eyes and was like, let's talk.

B

Right.

A

Because I want to. But you can't do that.

B

No.

A

To millions of people on the Internet. And now I've just realized it's all mathematics. I always say to people, it's all just math. It's like, if you get, you know, a million views, there'll be 10,000 people in the world who don't like you. If you get a billion views, you will have a million people in the world who don't like you. And if you get 100 billion views, you'll have 100 million people who don't like you. Like, it's just math.

B

Right.

A

Right. It's not complicated. It's almost like just about the volume and scale that you operate at. And it's natural. And that's the hard truth about it, where it's like, it just gets bigger the more big you get. Whereas you. We think, oh, the bigger you get, the more loved you are. And it is. That's true, you are more loved. But there's a proportionate amount of people that are now just not fans of yours.

B

I think it makes the love harder to believe, though. Like, if someone used to come up to me and compliment something I did, I would say, thank you. And now sometimes I find myself saying, like, really like you. Like, not to be like, pick me. But I'm like, oh, you really liked that when I said that. Like, you really enjoyed that. And they're like, yeah. And it's like, because I read something negative about it, like, it makes it harder to believe.

A

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I personally think. And obviously, you're talking to your therapist about. The therapist about this, which is amazing. But I. I honestly think that's because of our inability to properly receive good feedback and comments and compliments. It's like we don't have the presence to be really slow and thoughtful when we read a positive comment.

B

Yeah.

A

We don't really drink it. We don't really take it in.

B

It's just. Yeah.

A

Whereas if someone reads a negative comment, we will analyze every word in it. Yeah. And, like, read it backwards and three times over and send it to a friend, and it becomes this big conversation. I always say to people that you remember the bad times more than the good times, because when something bad happens, you cry for a month. And when something good happens, you celebrate for a day.

B

Yeah.

A

And we all know what that feels like. Right. If you win, you'll have one party, and then tomorrow you get back to work.

B

Yeah.

A

But if you go through a breakup, you will cry for three months, and that will stay with you. And so we just deal with negativity with so much more depth than positivity. But do you get involved in Internet drama?

B

I never get involved because I think it's a cheap shot to get involved. I think it's a very easy way for people to talk about you. I don't need to give my opinion on anything. I don't need to let you. Like, that's not what I'm here for. And if I were. If I were to be doing it, I'm not shy in saying that I love to gossip, but I don't need to gossip on the Internet publicly because it will hurt someone's feelings and it will show my face to more people. And I think that that's a very cheap way to get yourself out there. Does that make sense?

A

That is the best answer I've heard on it.

B

Really?

A

Yeah. I love that.

B

I think it's a cheap shot.

A

Yeah.

B

It's. At the end of the day, I really do. I love that. There's been times where I've been like, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about this. But I'm like, you know what? Like, there is more to me than just gossiping. Gossiping is for when we stop recording and we start talking, just us two. Because that's the beauty of gossip, I guess.

A

It's the idea of, like, I don't want to be followed for gossip.

B

Right. I want people to be like, I follow him because he's funny and he makes me feel better.

A

Yeah.

B

Not like, I get my news from him. And there are places for that. But I just. That's not. That's never been my journey.

A

Yeah. It's not the offering you want to put into the world. And I like that answer because I think it can be tempting when something feels like we know everyone's obsessed about it. I think we now live. We also live in a really interesting time that I discovered was whenever there was something viral about someone happening, whether it was an article, a someone getting canceled, whatever it was, these companies are now sending reports to every podcaster on their network and saying, do this because it will get clicked.

B

Really?

A

Yeah.

B

Oh, see, I don't know that because I'm independent.

A

So am I. Yeah.

B

So I don't know.

A

So I discovered this when it was happening to me, but it was like basically what was happening was every time there was something about someone who was well known that was not great, that company is sending a report saying, do this topic because it will get clicks. And so half the time people are talking about stuff, not even because they care or have an opinion, but because their company or their network or whatever it is has told them that will get clicks.

B

Right.

A

Which is a crazy thing to think about, where it's not even something you're thinking about or care about that much. But you're diving in because you've been told sometimes leadership isn't about putting out fires. It's about building the right team so the fires don't start in the first place. And when you're stretched in, you realize this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps you connect with quality candidates exactly when you need them most. Instead of struggling just to get your posts seen, you can focus on finding the right people and hiring the ones who can truly drive results. In fact, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed are 95% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored Jobs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. This episode is presented by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves. Building better habits, showing up more, fully embracing mindfulness. But Sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you. Go online@statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

B

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Or maybe not everything is just not enough.

B

You're a little bit crazy.

A

I don't know what's going to happen.

B

I want my fairy tale ending. Married at First Sight now streaming new

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episodes Thursdays only on Peacock Old what do you think about Cancel Culture?

B

Cancel Culture exists to me because when you get likes on a video, likes on a post, likes on anything, it feels good. There is no rhyme or reason that chemically feels good. That is like a scientific fact. So regardless of what you are saying is complimentary about someone or negative about someone. Like for example, when I was doing my skits, my improv skits, and they were getting a lot of likes, the reason I kept doing them is because it was fun, but it was also doing well. So if you're making videos negatively about someone else and they're doing well, everyone is going to start making video like it's like a virus.

A

You have a lot of people now saying a lot about people that they know very little about.

B

Yeah.

A

That's the fascinating part, right, is that we're reading into like a tiny paparazzi picture. One second of a conversation and then drawing these massive conclusions based on people. But we all do that as humans all the time.

B

Yeah.

A

Do you stay away from that in your personal life? Like in your private life? Like. No, I do it.

B

I'm such a gossip. I can't help it. I love gossiping. It's like my love language. I just don't I try not to do it publicly.

A

Yeah. Yeah.

B

But, like, if you. If you see me and we start talking and, like, I start gossiping, it's because I love you.

A

Yeah. Got it.

B

Yeah.

A

That you did start with me today when you. Yeah. All right. I'm like, it's because I feel comfortable.

B

It's because I love you and I love to gossip, and I think there's such a beauty to it, and I think. But, yeah, I just. I won't ever publicly do it.

A

Let's do a quick rules of gossip to make it work. What's the manifesto? What are the rules of gossip? To make it fun and connecting, but not hurtful and painful.

B

Rule number one is like, you can't. If something is happening to somebody you really love, you don't gossip with other people about it. Like, you don't. Like. Like, if something was happening to me that was really, really hurtful and really, really bad, I know Peyton wouldn't go talking about it to someone else.

A

Got it.

B

But if it was someone outside of our group and we were like, if we heard something about something, we would be like, what the fuck is going on?

A

Got it. Rule number one, That's.

B

Rule number one is protect those that you love.

A

Yes. Okay, good rule.

B

It's like, you know, protect the family.

A

Yeah.

B

And I would say rule number two is like, have fun. As long as no one's listening, just have fun. Gossip is fun. Sharing information is fun.

A

What if it gets back to them?

B

Yeah, it's happened to me many a times.

A

No way.

B

Yes. Many, many, many times.

A

What do you do in that position?

B

So you say sorry.

A

Oh, you do? Okay.

B

I'm very. Yeah, you just say, I'm sorry.

A

Do they reach out first, or do you reach out?

B

No, I'll just be like, okay, I'm sorry.

A

So you'll message them and say, I'm sorry.

B

Well, it's never really gotten to that. Usually I get confronted. I'm an easy person to confront. Like, I'm not very intimidating, but I'm never, like, really ragging on. Like, I'm normally just, like, sharing information.

A

Yeah.

B

I don't know.

A

And the third rule of gossip is the one you've been talking about, which is, like, only gossip offline, not online.

B

Yeah. That I. I really think is important.

A

Yeah. Got it. Yeah, got it. Do you and Payne ever gossip about me?

B

Never. Well, we only say positive things. How much we miss you. I told her I was coming here today. She's like, tell him I love him.

A

Oh, she's the Sweetest.

B

Yeah, she's the best.

A

I love her. Oh, you have to do this for me now. For. For my. Define a crash out.

B

It literally feels like a painting is melting. Like the. Your world is, like, crumbling. Like, it feels like everything is falling apart and you're just like, free falling.

A

Wow, that's good. The painting melting is brilliant.

B

So, like, I crash out over this guy during my crash out. I reached back out to him and saw him again, even though I knew it wasn't going to be good for me. And that's because any decision you make in a crash out kind of goes. And it's fun to crash out when your best friend is also crashing out. So Peyton and I will often sync up with our crash outs. So I'll be like, should I just do this? And she's like, yes. Should I just do this? I'm like, yes. Even though we both know it's bad. Like, there's this, like, rush. There's a rush to a crash out, I think. I really think there's a rush to it.

A

And are you trying to get out of it as quickly as you're in

B

it or you can't really see a way out when you're in a depth of a crash when you're in, like, the real darkness. Depths of a crash out. Like, there's no way out.

A

What's the longest crash out you've ever had?

B

Probably over the sky. So from January to end of. I think I'm still good. Beginning of April. Wow.

A

I thought you were going to say, like, three hours. No, you just said three months.

B

Yeah, three months. It's like, effect. Like this one guy affected, like every decision I made. What.

A

What was it about this one guy?

B

I don't know. I really don't know what it was. And, like, I knew I shouldn't have gone back and I went back and the same exact thing happened as the first time. It just took longer.

A

Never go back.

B

I know, but I really was like, basically we went on. We went on a date and it didn't end up working out. And then I reached back out like a few months later or a month later, just like throwing it out there. And he came back with, like, flirty. So we started hanging out again. But then the same thing happened after our. That happened after our first date, after, like, two months. So it was like. Do you know what I mean? And it was like, this was all because of a crash out.

A

And did you feel more mad at yourself or did you feel more mad at him? Or is it Crash out. A bit of both.

B

In the moment when he was like, I don't think this is working out, I was like, okay. Like, I was right the first time.

A

Yeah.

B

And he was right the first time. No one was wrong. It was just like. That's like, this was. If someone shows you who you. They are, what they deem a situation to be, like, believe them.

A

And then does the crasher affect everything else in your life for those four months?

B

Those that are closest to me will tell you yes.

A

So how do you go to work? How do you do the show? How do you go on stage? When you're having a crasher, you need

B

someone to just be like, well, on stage, you're like, these people paid to see you.

A

Okay. So that. Yeah.

B

That commitment, luckily for me, they also pay to see me crash out. So, like, I can get on stage and be like, I'm crashing the out right now. Like, I'm not okay. And that, for me, for them, is equally as entertaining as me not crashing out.

A

Got it.

B

So it's almost like I can crash out on the job because it makes it more entertaining and more funny.

A

Yeah.

B

But then there's moments where I'm like, wait, no, I really don't feel good, and I really can't do this right now.

A

Yeah.

B

Like, after the Vanity Fair thing, I didn't want to talk about that. I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want. I couldn't, like, make a joke out of it yet. And that was a really hard week for me because I was like, I can't crash out about this publicly normally. Everything. I can be like, I'm crashing out over this. That. And the third, I couldn't crash out about that because so many people were yelling at me or that's what it felt like to me. Like, something like that is hard. Like, I can't crash out. And that's, I think, the moment where things kind of shifted for me, where it being public became less fun.

A

We were texting at that time.

B

Yeah. I was. I was not okay.

A

Yeah, I was not okay. I remember. Yeah. I really appreciate you reaching out.

B

Yeah.

A

Because I can't imagine that being fun.

B

It was. Well, it was just like. It was horrible because it's like, yeah, yeah, it just sucked.

A

And you survived.

B

And I survived. I literally, like, physically. When you physically survive something you're so scared of, you're so dreading it happening. You knew, like, you. I've talked to you about this. Like, people getting mad at me is my number one fear. Like, I think my physical reaction to that was that I literally would not physically survive.

A

Yeah.

B

When you physically, like, actually make it out of something that you're scared of, it, like, teaches your mind almost that, like, it's fine.

A

Yeah.

B

Do you know what I mean? Like, after that week, like, I felt like, oh, like, I'm still. I'm, like, breathing. As dramatic as it sounds, like I'm, like, breathing. And I felt like I was holding my breath, waiting for this thing to happen. And then it happened.

A

Yeah.

B

And now what? Yeah, you just keep going on.

A

Totally. And. And. And what I find really hard about those moments. And obviously, you know, I'm a fan of yours. I follow you. And it's like, I'd watched an interview done around the same time. I think it was just before it

B

was the Rolling Stone one.

A

Correct. And I'd seen that interview, and I was like, jake's being really honest. Like, he's not a. He knows he's not a journalist. He's not trying to be a journalist.

B

My mom is a journalist.

A

Yeah. He really, like, it was just really interesting because I follow you quite deeply in that sense. Like, I keep up with what you're up to. And I was like, oh, wait. Jake said this thing, the Rolling Stone thing. And the thing that he's getting, you know, targeted for whatever you want to call it, is that very thing that he's already. Okay.

B

It's funny how that works.

A

And I'm like, if you just listen, if. And this is the challenge I see with everything, and I go through this myself, I'm like, if someone actually listened to everything I said.

B

Right.

A

I think they'd have a better picture of my genuine emotions about things. But if you just pick one thing I say or one thing I do, you might get a very different perspective of who I am. Right. And I think the challenge today is who the hell in the world has the time to listen to everything I've said or everything you said? And who cares enough to do that as well? Like, it's too much work. And so it's. Yeah, it's rough because I felt like what you were saying in the Rolling Stone interview directly would have made the other side of it.

B

Right. It was like a direct response. It was like, well, I'm not a journalist. I've never claimed to be. I think it's insulting to say I'm a journalist. I'm not. I'm not. Neither am I inquisitive enough to be a journalist.

A

Yeah. Yeah.

B

Unless it's gossip. I'd be a good gossip journalist.

A

There you go. That's. That's the new title. Yeah, that's the new headline. Yeah, that's a new headline. I feel like the good thing is to survive early in that growth journey because then you start realizing that these things will keep coming and keep happening, and you're gonna have to live with it forever. So in one sense, it's kind of, like, nice to get one under your belt because you don't want to wait too long. Because I've seen it happen the other way. And I think this used to happen a few years back was that people would literally have, like, three decade careers where they would never have anyone hate them. And then all of a sudden, something massive would happen.

B

Right.

A

Years later.

B

And they don't know how to deal with it.

A

And they don't have to deal with

B

it because of the Internet.

A

Correct.

B

It's not just bad press any. Like, back in the day, in traditional media and traditional celebrity, you could get bad press where the press was talking about you poorly.

A

Yeah.

B

But the press is now the people. So it feels a little more individual and a little more like. I think it feels more personal.

A

It does feel more personal. 100. It feels more personal.

B

Yeah.

A

Because you're seeing one person say something about you.

B

Ye.

A

It feels really, really personal. There's this. I remember Ellen DeGeneres was canceled at something like, I can't remember how old she was at that time, like, 46. For coming out as gay. Like, coming out in America as gay was, like, cancelable.

B

Really?

A

Yeah. I remember there's this clip that people can watch of the Oprah show where people are literally standing up on the Oprah show saying, how can you be friends with Ellen because she's gay?

B

Really?

A

Yeah. It's unbelievable. And you'll see Oprah say, like, well, you know, I appreciate her. I like her, whatever it is. And I'm like, that is bizarre to me to think about. You watch that and you go, oh, my gosh. Like, you know, what a. What a crazy thing to go through.

B

Yeah.

A

And now it's almost like. Yeah, it's. It's what you just said. It feels so much more personal. It feels so much more urgent as well. And. And it's rough. And. And I don't think anyone has the magic pill or the answer to how to deal with it.

B

Right.

A

Because you got to keep. Keep moving on.

B

Yeah.

A

You got to keep getting on with it. Well, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you survived. I'm glad you kept going because. Because you're making a lot of people happy. Making a lot of people smile. You're like, I'm trying.

B

Yeah, I'm really trying. I feel like I've kind of lost my funny lately and so I'm like trying to, like, get it back.

A

Well, what helps you get it back?

B

Watching tv.

A

What have you been watching?

B

Industry.

A

Oh, I've not seen that yet.

B

I keep being told, you gotta. Okay, okay. You would love it.

A

Okay.

B

And I'm so good at when I'm like. And I know I'm good at when I'm imitating things. And I always say, like, when I'm binge watching a show and I binge, I go through this period of like, binging and then I regurgitate it all out. That's when I'm my funniest.

A

So that. Okay. Watching tv, Mine's. Mine is genuinely like, I love watching stand up comics.

B

Like, I watch enough of it.

A

I love watching stand up comedy is one of my favorite things. I come like, if I can watch a really good stand up comic that just is dialed in and, you know, really knows how they work in the crowd, it's. You've never done stand up comedy?

B

I did it in seventh grade.

A

Oh, okay.

B

It doesn't really. Doesn't really count, but I love when you see someone. So whether it be a comic or athlete or a musician in control of a crowd, it's like equally as crack for you as it is for them. I feel like.

A

Yeah, yeah.

B

It's like the. Oh, my God, what am I witnessing right now?

A

Absolutely, absolutely. What's. What's become your, like, biggest red flag in dating for you right now?

B

If someone watches my show, you don't

A

want them to be a fan.

B

It's weird because it's both a red flag and a green flag. It's like, okay, you still pursued me even after seeing me for all that I was. But, like, internally, I'm so insecure that you've seen it that I now can't date you.

A

Yeah, yeah.

B

Because I'm so insecure with all that you've seen. I can't hide anything from you.

A

God, that's.

B

Does that make sense?

A

Yeah. It's almost like you don't get in a normal relationship. Like, if you're not a public figure, you get to reveal information.

B

Yeah.

A

As you both get to know each other more. Whereas when you're a public figure who's talking about yourself all the time, it almost feels like everyone knows too much about you already.

B

Right.

A

And now you don't even get to reveal that part of yourself. And it doesn't feel like a discovery, even for the other person.

B

And it just feels almost, like, embarrassing.

A

Tell me about that part. Why is it embarrassing?

B

Because I used to talk about, like, my sex life a lot, or, like, lack thereof. I'm like, oh, my God, if this person's seen my show, they know that I haven't had sex in however long. That is so embarrassing. I can't sit here with a straight face.

A

So what do you do now?

B

I go for older men that wouldn't normally watch my show.

A

Right. And how's that going?

B

It's fine.

A

Okay.

B

Honestly. Great. They have great perspectives on life.

A

This episode is brought to you by Altra. Making space for ourselves matters. Having time and room to try new things. Our feet benefit from more space, too. That's why ultra running shoes feature ultra fit design, giving toes more room for comfort and balance, helping feet feel stronger. These aren't just running shoes. They're perfect for walking, hiking, any pace, any level. They feel right from the first step. Go to ultrarunning.com forward/onpurpose and use code PURPOSE10 for 10% off. That's a L, T R-A running.com forward slash onpurpose. Stay out there. Are you generally attracted to older men, or is this because they don't listen to your show?

B

I think generally I'm attracted to older guys. And then this has made it even more so, easier.

A

Okay, okay, okay. So that's a green flag right now,

B

being an older man, you beat an

A

older guy who doesn't want your show.

B

That's a green. A green flag is like, an older guy in their 30s is. Who doesn't watch my show. And then a red flag would be, like, someone my age who watches my show.

A

Yeah. It's good, though. You're segmenting your, you know, your pool. It's good.

B

Yeah.

A

What's the face, James?

B

I know I'm wrong.

A

What do you mean, you know you're right?

B

I know I'm wrong. I know what I'm saying is incorrect. And, like, I'm gonna wake up and be like, no way. That's not how I feel. But that's how I feel. I think that's my issue. Yeah. With having my podcast grow as much is because, like, I think I say things that I feel in the moment, and then, like, I switch my mind up like that. And then. So when people are like, that's wrong. I'm like, wait, that is wrong. I didn't even mean that, but in the moment I did.

A

It's not your opinion on anyone else. Yeah, I don't think that can be wrong.

B

I know.

A

You're allowed to change your mind.

B

I know.

A

And, and you know, it's all tongue in cheek too. Like, it's like, you know, it's you saying how you feel about what you're attracted to right now, and that could change tomorrow. I think that's. That's cool.

B

Yeah, I think that that's a red flag. I'm trying to think of, like another red flag that I would agree with tomorrow morning because, like, I feel like. I feel like I could go on a date with someone that watches my show and them be wonderful and it be, you know, so I. I actually don't know if that's fair to say that that's a red flag. I think a red flag would be. I don't know what, what was a red flag for you when you were dating?

A

That's a good question. It's been a long time, Jake. You're like, you know, right now. I haven't been on a date for.

B

I think lying.

A

Lying is good. Lying.

B

Yes. This is my answer. If you catch somebody in a lie early on, Red flag. Yeah, Immediate red flag.

A

Name dropping is my red flag. Oh, I'm not a huge fan of name dropping. I don't, I don't. Yeah, I don't need to like. Or if someone's like, brand dropping, name dropping, event dropping, like, oh, I was just going to this place with this person.

B

Very good. Red flag.

A

It doesn't, it doesn't do anything for me. I'm like, I don't. I'm good. Like, you know.

B

Well, then I think, is this date just name drop for you later on?

A

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So. And now I'm thinking about friend dating because I don't go out and date something of like, just friends and how I pick people who I hang out with. I don't like that. I don't. I get turned off if someone's like, if someone only talks about work or money or deals or.

B

Me too.

A

Like, I just, I find that boring.

B

And like, you know, back to my crash out from. The reason I crashed out so hard over this one guy was because he wasn't a name dropper at all. And like, I'd realized that the way I need to be loved in a relationship is constant words of affirmation. It's like someone telling me that they are attracted to me because I read people telling me that and I And I'm very insecure already. And I see people saying that I'm ugly all the time.

A

Really? Do you see that a lot?

B

All the time. And so to have the person that I'm intimate with tell me that they are attracted to me and they're not. Not lying to me is like. I think what. Like, my most important thing.

A

I didn't realize the ugly comment for you was a common thing or a thing at all.

B

Oh, yeah. Especially from other gay guys.

A

Wow. I had no idea.

B

Yeah.

A

God, that must be terrible.

B

Yeah, it's not great, but I am able to use it to. To, like, as part of my humor. Just sometimes it gets a little too mean.

A

Yeah.

B

Sometimes it's a little too mean and a little too specific.

A

And that's when you can't laugh.

B

And that's when I can't laugh.

A

Yeah. Well, you showed everyone with the Coachella post.

B

Right, Right?

A

You did. Yeah. Yeah. Just put it out there. You know, it's. I think. I think you did. I'm, like, flirting with you, Jacob.

B

I know. I know. I know. But I did. I. I do that. That part of my. I actually. You know what? It's funny when you bring up the, like. Like, my bo. Like, transforming my body and stuff, people are. A lot of the comments that I've received are people being like, that just doesn't make sense for him. I think I literally just heard Louise laugh. Like. Like, am I not someone that's supposed to be attractive? Do you know what I mean? Like, that's how it feels to me. And then it feels even worse.

A

Yeah, there's those clips of, like. I remember there's a clip of, like, Jonah Hill when he'd lost weight, and I think he was on a TV show, and someone said to him, like, oh, you don't look like someone who would smell good.

B

Y.

A

And it was. And he called it out on the show. Like, he literally goes, what do you mean? I just don't think, like, Right. See the light. He just goes straight at it to combat it. Because obviously, it didn't feel good to hear that he was like, what do you mean by that?

B

Well, it feels like they're saying to me, your face is still ugly, but your body is okay.

A

Yeah.

B

That's what it feels like they're saying to me when they say that. When they say, this doesn't make sense for him. It feels like they're saying, the face is still ugly. I need some work to do. But the body is getting there.

A

Yeah. So what are you. What are you. New dating rules.

B

How are you go on first dates.

A

Rule number one, go on first.

B

Go on first date. And it's so hard. I hate dating.

A

How do you meet people right now?

B

Right now, Raya.

A

Yes.

B

It's touch and go.

A

Yeah.

B

Kind of like, it's like, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. But also leaving the house. Like, I feel like leaving the house and going to a bar.

A

Yes. Yeah.

B

When you base all your, like, romantic validation and online dating, it's a black hole.

A

Yeah.

B

Like, you're never gonna. You're never gonna feel good about yourself. But when you go to a bar and you get flirted with.

A

Yes.

B

Like, in nature, like, it fuels you for, like, that next month to, like, lead with confidence.

A

I like that. The fact you're saying you can go out and do that, being a public figure, I think that's great advice for people.

B

Yeah.

A

Yeah. Actually get out there. Just do it the old way.

B

I mean. Yeah. I. Because what else are you going to do, you know?

A

Yeah. Any others that are working? Any. Anything else that's.

B

No. I mean, I don't think many things are working for me right now.

A

What's the most insane thing you've ever done in dating or the craziest thing you've ever done on a date?

B

I mean, like, crashing out over a guy one on one date with and then telling him I passed the place where we went on our first date to get back in contact with him, even though I was sitting in my hotel room with my friend Cassie. Like, that's insane. Like, I was like, I just passed this place, thought of you. No, I didn't. I was in my hotel room.

A

That's a good one.

B

No, I didn't. And by the way, not only was that I planned that.

A

Yeah.

B

From the second that he said that he was not, I thought he got the. So I thought he got the ick from me. And my friend was like, if he has the ick from you, just give it a month and then try again.

A

Jay.

B

So I gave it a month. And I was like, my plan is. Well, my plan was three months. I lasted one month. And he's probably gonna listen to this, be like, this kid's insane, but it's over now, so whatever.

A

Yeah, that was part of the rules. The earlier rules we said, jake, that's so bad.

B

I know. Oh, red flag for dating. If their friends suck.

A

Oh, yeah, That's a good one. I like that one.

B

I like that one. If their friends suck bad.

A

Yeah. Yeah. I also don't like people who are not responsive. I have a big issue with that.

B

Yeah.

A

Yeah. I'm like, I need to get a rhythm of communication.

B

I'm a bad responder.

A

I don't see. Here's the thing. I think there's like, like, I think you've got like a 72 hour rule. Yeah. Like, if you respond to someone within 72 hours, I think it's respectful.

B

Yeah.

A

And I'm like, if I'm getting to know someone again, I'm not dating, but if I was getting to know someone as a friend or I'm like, 72 hours is fair. Everyone's busy. Maybe five days, I can deal with maybe seven days at a max. Right?

B

Yeah.

A

But over seven days to not communicate, I'm like, this is like.

B

Yeah. I'm thinking about the person that I haven't responded to in seven days now, and I'm like, I have to respond to them.

A

I feel like seven days is. Is good. And like anything more than seven days, I'm like, there is no I. Seven days is good for someone you don't really ever want to see.

B

Right.

A

Like, you know, whereas if I want to build a friendship with someone, I'm expecting them to respond within 72 hours.

B

Right.

A

Yeah.

B

So nice that you have a wife and you don't have to think about the romance.

A

No, no, I don't have to think about romance, but I do think about friends and I do think about, like, building relationships or Right. People at work or whatever it may be. I'm definitely. I think you're always building relationships with people and I'm someone who just, like, likes having friends. Like, I enjoy.

B

You do love it. I love getting to know people.

A

I enjoy getting to know people. I enjoy getting to know people deeply. I enjoy to actually get to know what's going on in someone's life and heart. Like, I enjoyed that and I'm always looking forward to. Again, I don't want to do that with a million people. I'm looking forward to doing that with a few people.

B

Yeah.

A

So you're like, you're looking at me with some dubious eyes.

B

No, no, I'm. I'm looking at you with, like, have I just said a whole bunch of nonsense for this past hour and, like, has anything I said made sense?

A

There's been so much that has made sense and insane. The insanity question was, was a, Was a really good one. But why do you feel ready to be in a relationship right now or just to be dating?

B

I think just to be dating. And I've always said I wanted a boyfriend, and every time I get close to it, I'm like, I don't want this, because, I don't know. I haven't figured it out. I think I. Well, I just had someone on my show, and they explained to me the different attachment styles of stuff, so I think I'm avoidant. Like, I look for people that are not there, and then if they ever get there with me, I'm like, wait, what?

A

Yeah.

B

Like, I don't want that. I think I'm too insecure to, like, share myself entirely with someone. I think I'm just, like, too insecure as a person to, like, be able to show someone. I think that's where journaling's kind of been helpful because I've been able to, like, I'm sharing it with, like, this fake object. This object. But it's still something else other than my own mind. And I think that's what I've always struggled with.

A

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You talk about the importance of friends and being surrounded by the right people. You obviously have a great crew. I feel like you just told me you're gonna be living alone for the first time in a long time.

B

Well, yeah, and I'm really stressed out about it. I'm. I've been begging Brett to stay, but her journey is that she is moving in with her incredible, lovely boyfriend, and I'm dreading the day it happens, and I don't know what I'm gonna do. Waking up to a friend every day is, like, the best thing on planet Earth. We wake up every morning, we go downstairs, gossip for 20 minutes, we go about our days, meet back up for lunch, gossip, go about our days, meet back up for dinner, and, like, I don't know, like, it's. You get very complacent when you live with someone. You get complacent and not. Not having to make plans. It's like, well, Brett will be home, or I'll just be with Brett. And I think it's gonna be really, really, really hard for me when she moves out. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

A

How do you define a good friend?

B

I. I think the most classic answer and the most truthful answer is that somebody who has been with you at your worst. Like, I. I think the song Delicate by Taylor Swift is kind of like, applies to romantic relationships, but it also, for me, applies to platonic friendships as well. It's like, she talks about, like, this feeling of, like, having this new relationship, and, like, her reputation has Never been worse. So this person that she's with right now must really like them for them. And so the people that have been with you at your worst and stuck by you, like, that's a good, like, a loyal, like, loyalty. I've learned that loyalty is really and truly everything. Sticking by someone, even if it's not convenience. Convenience or sticking by or doing something for someone because, you know, it means a lot more to them than it would to, like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm trying not to get too specific, but, like, really showing up for people, you know, even if you don't want to.

A

Yeah.

B

Making things work for someone even if you don't want to.

A

Yeah.

B

Because they would do it for you. And knowing that they would do it for you, that's a good friend.

A

Yeah. And you're like that, too, as a friend.

B

I think I've learned how to become like that. I don't think I was always like that. And I'm totally fine to say that I wasn't always like that. And my best friends would sit here and tell you right now that I wasn't always like that.

A

What changed you?

B

Like, life just, like, things happening. And sometimes life forces you to put things into perspective, and you have to choose and you have to decide, like, certain routes to go down. And I've just been faced with situations like in college or high school or middle school, and each situation, like, I think I've been a better and better and better friend.

A

All right, we have two games that we're going to finish on that we do with all of our guests now.

B

Okay?

A

One's made for you, and one's another game that we do. So this one is called which one ruins your day more?

B

Oh, my God, I love this.

A

So. Oh, Jake. Which one ruins your day more? Someone text, we need to talk, or someone just reacts. Thumbs up to a long text you sent.

B

We need to talk.

A

Why?

B

Because the thumbs up, I. I at least know where you stand. If I. If it's the uncertainty that kills me.

A

Yeah.

B

If I know you're upset with me and I know that that text that I've sent you don't like it, fine, so be it. It. I'll be upset about it, but I'll be way more upset if you say, we need to talk. And I don't know if it's good or bad, because then my brain starts spinning and spinning and spinning.

A

Okay, everyone listening, do not send your friends. We need to talk. All right, which one ruins your day more? You wave at someone who wasn't waving at you. Or you say, you too after your service says, enjoy your meal.

B

You're waving at someone because the you too is like you're being polite at the end of the day. It's like you're polite. Like you're just trying to be polite. You're like, oh, you too. And it's like a silly, fun moment.

A

Yeah.

B

Waving at someone. That happened to me the other day was the worst.

A

Did it actually.

B

Horrible. One time I did it to Jennifer Aniston by accident and it was like we were staying at the same hotel and I was. Wait, I thought she was waving at me and I was like, what? She. It was so awkward. I like thinking about it. Makes my skin crawl.

A

Who is she waving at?

B

I know. I think I was waving at someone next to her, but obviously she's like, are you waving at me? And I'm like, no. Like, I don't. And I didn't realize it was her. And like, it makes my skin crawl.

A

Which one ruins your day more? You get left on red or they Send back a 5 paragraph text.

B

Left on red.

A

Left on red.

B

It's the uncertainty. Kills me. Kills me.

A

It's the worst. Which one ruins your day more? Being way too overdressed at a party or way too underdressed at a party?

B

So in New York you would say that it's better to be overdressed than underdressed, but in la, it's cooler to be underdressed. And I feel these days very LA through and through. So I would say being overdressed would. Would upset me more.

A

Got it. I. I agree with you. I'd rather be underdressed too. Which one ruins your day more? You send a photo of the guy you're talking about to him or like a post on his Instagram from five years ago.

B

Send a post to him or send the photo to him. I think I've actually almost done that before. And that's happened to me in, like, other situations where I've been talking about somebody and I've sent them a screenshot of like our own text and that ruins my week. That's just like, you. Ha. There's nothing coming back. There's no coming back. You have to be like, sorry.

A

All right, a couple more. Which one ruins your day more? The guy you're dating isn't funny or doesn't get your brand of humor.

B

Doesn't get my brand of humor.

A

Yeah, of course.

B

Because if he's not funny, like, you can always. I think you can always teach Someone how to be if they can at least laugh at it. Doesn't matter if they're funny. Can you laugh at me and what the jokes I'm making. But if you don't think I'm funny, why are we even talking?

A

Totally. Yeah. All right, last one of these. You accidentally send a mean girl text about someone to that exact person, or you're caught in a blatant, unnecessary lie by someone you actually deeply respect.

B

I think the mean girl text. Sending a text to someone, resending a text to someone that you didn't mean to send it to. Like, they'll kill me for telling this story and I need to double check it with them. But one time, Peyton texted Julia, I need to go search for Julia's bag so she'll shut the up. And she texted to Julia while sitting next to Julia. And I just remember, like, it being, like, for everyone else, the funniest thing, but for them too, like, not funny.

A

So bad.

B

So bad. It was slippers. It was slippers. Julia couldn't find her slippers.

A

Oh, my God. Oh, well done. You did good. That was really good. All right, gut reaction. So I need your quickest reaction. The hill I die on for no

B

reason is air conditioner. As, like, everyone should have it.

A

Okay. Right?

B

No, like, everyone should have air conditioner. I don't care how bad it is for the environment. I don't even. I'm sorry, I don't. You need to have an air conditioner. Like, it is important to condition the temperature of your home properly.

A

Got it. The most embarrassing thing currently sitting in my notes app is I thought I

B

was being really poetic. I don't have my phone with me, but I. I took notes of my day, and it was that I was walking home with, like, makeup products in my hand because I was too embarrassed to walk home with the Sephora bag. And I wrote that down. And, like, I. And I looked back at it today and I was like, what the fuck? Why didn't I want to walk home with a Sephora bag?

A

That's good. That's really good. The most unhinged thought I've had today is.

B

Oh, most unhinged thought I've had today is probably like, should I smoke before this? And I'm so grateful I didn't.

A

You didn't? No. Oh, nice.

B

I was like, I'm so. I literally was almost like, should I just smoke?

A

Yeah.

B

And then my therapist was like, you cannot smoke. Like, like giving me all this attitude about smoking, reading me a quote from Yoda, and I Told her. I was like, I don't even watch Star wars, so I don't know what the you're talking about.

A

There have been people who smoked before. I mean, like, Whiz had his Whiz Khalifa had his car down there and smoked before he came onto the show.

B

Yeah, he's able to, like, control himself.

A

There are a couple of people I'm trying to remember now, but Wiz was definitely one of them. The brand I would sell my soul to be the face of is Dior. Dior. Yes. You already are. No.

B

Oh, my God.

A

Are you kidding?

B

Dior. I would love to be a Dior.

A

I see you wear Dior everywhere.

B

It's my favorite brand.

A

We both love you, Jonathan Anderson.

B

Love Jonathan Anderson.

A

We love you.

B

I think it's just everything he does is so brilliant, and I think what he's done with the brand is brilliant.

A

I agree. I went to his first show out in Paris last year, and it was just spectacular.

B

Without the one where he debuted the book tote collection.

A

That's correct. Yes. It was just. It was so good. It was so good. Amazing. Good answer. The celebrity friend you're calling to help you bury a dead body is Renee Rap. Oh, wow. Okay. Renee's been on the show.

B

Okay, Renee. Renee raps. He. She is. That is a ride or. Talk about a ride or die. Like, that girl is a ride or die. Like, I'd call her and be like, I am geeking out. I'm tweaking out over this one thing. She'll be like, we're. It's handled. We're handling it.

A

That's so good. And you trust that she can. Like, she's like.

B

You know, she's like. She protects. She protects her family.

A

Nice. Yeah, nice, Jake. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Okay, Jake, Shane, these are your final five. First question, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

B

You can't create magic twice.

A

I like that.

B

If something, like, works once, there's no point in, like, I wanted to go back for Coachella weekend, too, and I looked at Louise and I was like, just. I don't want to taint my experience because weekend one was so perfect, and it's such a shallow thing to say for that answer. But, like, just, like, you can't create magic twice.

A

Twice.

B

Like, magic exists because, like, you know, it's like, how did this happen? Like, you can't create a miracle twice.

A

Yeah. The impermanence is what made it special.

B

Yeah.

A

The fact that you didn't believe you could do it again, that's what made it rare. Absolutely. I love that advice. Never had that on the show. Question number two. What is the worst advice you ever heard or received?

B

All press is good press. I don't think it's true. I thought it was true, and then my friend looked at me and said, that is not true.

A

It's so painful. Yeah, it's so painful. I agree. It's the worst. I fully agree. Question number three. What was the highlight of Coachella?

B

The Strokes. Besides, like, Justin Bieber and stuff? The Strokes. I've always been at the same festival that they've been playing at. And my favorite song of all time, besides the Archer by Taylor Swift, is Someday by the Strokes. And I never got to see it live, and I saw it live, and I was on my best friend Will's shoulders, and it was, like, the best moment of my entire life.

A

Really?

B

Yeah.

A

Wow. Yeah. That's awesome.

B

And I have a video of it too. Someone took a video of me, so it was like, you weren't even having

A

to have your camera out.

B

I didn't have to have my phone out. I just got to experience it.

A

Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. Question number four. What are you most excited about this year?

B

Continuing to work on my body and work out and show people how much work I put into my body. And I'm also really excited about working on my show that I have in development. That's been so rewarding and so fun.

A

This is a show about your life, right?

B

Yeah, yeah. And it's just. It's so fun to make fun of yourself.

A

Yeah. That's so cool.

B

And you feel like you can do it a little more in a scripted setting.

A

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not acting in mine, but we're working on one as well, about my life. And I'm like, I'm helping produce it and working with the writers, and I'm having so much fun because I want to make fun of myself.

B

Yeah.

A

And. And there's no better way to do it than in a scripted show. You're at least getting to play yourself, which I'm not gonna do. But it's like.

B

I mean, are you. Of course. I literally am. Like, I imagine I can't make a show about myself and not play myself because I so desperate for a role. So I'm like, obviously, I have to play myself.

A

Yeah. Yeah. It's brilliant. Jake, fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest who's Ever been on the show? If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Be?

B

This is my law. Every airplane should have personalized air conditioning instead of central ac. Because when it's central, you're like, is it. When is it turning on? D? But when it's personal and you can just twist it on or off, like, every plane should have that right, and that should be the law. And that they also shouldn't oversell airplanes. I never understood that.

A

What do you mean?

B

You'll be like, we oversold this flight. How?

A

Oh, yeah, yeah. That doesn't make any sense.

B

How is that legal? How does that work?

A

Yeah, that.

B

How does that work? Work?

A

What happens in that situation when they do oversell?

B

They make somebody get off the plane. It's crazy. It's the craziest thing.

A

Has that happened to you?

B

I would never. I would never. You'd have to drag me off a plane if they were. If someone was saying like that we oversold this fight, please, you have to leave. I'd say over my dead body am I getting off this plane.

A

So good.

B

I'm not. I pick someone else.

A

So good. Jake. Shane. Jake, you are so much fun. I love getting to chat to you. I hope you got done to open up and share where you're at right now. And honestly, I can't wait to see you continue to win, continue to succeed. And most importantly, I'm excited for you to find that fulfillment that you're seeking. And I'm excited to be there right by your side as you discover those things.

B

Thank you. Thanks for having me. This was so awesome.

A

Thank you, Jake. You're awesome. That's fantastic.