Jay’s Must-Listens: The Biggest Lessons From 10 of Our Most Inspiring Conversations

Jay Shetty

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Jay Shetty

Price Void in Florida hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Before we get into today's episode, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge this community we've built here on YouTube. When we started this journey, the intention was simple. To create a space where we could all feel less alone, where wisdom felt practical and conversations explored what it really means to be, to live with purpose. And you turned that into something far bigger than I ever imagined. The community we built together became a place of learning, reflection, and genuine connection. Now, this isn't a goodbye to YouTube, it's a new chapter in how we share these conversations. You'll be able to watch our full video interviews on Netflix and Spotify video, and we'll continue showing up here on YouTube in new ways as we keep building this community together. The heart of this has never changed. It's always been about helping you live a life that feels more intentional, more meaningful, and more true to who you are. I'm deeply grateful you've been a part of this, and I can't wait to continue this journey together. It's just the beginning. Today's episode felt like the perfect moment to look back. This is a collection of some of the most powerful conversations we've shared over the years. The moments that challenged us, shifted us, and stayed with us. Let's dive in.

Benny Blanco

I think to myself, I'm like, how can I make Selena's day better? Like, how. What can I do in my day to make her day better? Because then that makes my day better. And I wanted to find a person like that. And I know when Selena wakes up, like, the first thing she's thinking is, like, how can I make his day better? And we have such a give and take. Like, I could never even see a world where I would ever yell at her, she would ever yell at me. Like, we don't argue like that. Like, I feel like. I feel like we just have conversations. Like, there's never an argument. Sometimes she'll say, this is so funny.

Selena Gomez

Oh, boy.

Jay Shetty

No, no, no. She'll do this.

Benny Blanco

And it's really cool. I'm feeling a little irritated, and I think I need, like, 25 minutes. And I'll say, okay. And then I give her her space. And then after, like, five minutes, she texts me. She's like, hey, will you come back? But it's knowing that and we have the proper boundaries set with each other. Like, I don't have to be on top of her every second. She doesn't have to be on top of me every second. We. I just want to know she's in the house so I can say, like, hey, I love you, and then go back to what I'm doing. You know what I mean? Because, look, we're both highly independent people. Okay? But we're both little mushes who just need to be attached and behave.

Selena Gomez

Yeah. We are so cheesy. It's so fun. Yeah.

Jay Shetty

I love the maturity. I mean, hearing you both talk about it.

Spiritual Teacher

Yes.

Selena Gomez

But let's be clear. We are not the perfect.

Jay Shetty

No, no, no, we're not perfect.

Cal Penn

No.

Jay Shetty

But you're disagreeing. No, no, no. But I think the maturity of. And I agree with you. I think that's actually the difference. And I'm glad you brought that up. I think there's a big difference between maturity and perfection.

Michelle Obama

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Perfection is saying we never have a disagreement. We never have to take space from each other, which you're not saying. You're saying, hey, I just asked for 25 minutes space. And then I was like, wait a minute, I need you. And I think there's a maturity in that because it requires maturity from both parts. For you to first say, hey, I need space. For you to say, I get it. I respect you. And then for you to have the maturity to say, actually, I want you back. And for you to be like, not like, oh, I told you so. For you to be like, I'm here for you, that's not perfection to me. That's maturity. And I think that's. I really want people to get that from it. That you are gonna have disagreements. You are gonna want space. Like, me and Raleigh went through that.

Michelle Obama

She.

Jay Shetty

At the beginning of our relationship, if we had a disagreement and we were the same, we never. We made a rule that we would never raise our voices at each other. Because I came from a home where it was not great. She comes from a home where her parents don't raise their voices. But I was just like, I never wanted that in my home. I wanted the energy of my home to be so sacred. And I wanted the energy of the home to always have a space where everyone just walked in and felt like a warm hug. And I was like, we can't argue and then expect that to happen. But it took a long time for us to realize that.

Selena Gomez

When she.

Jay Shetty

At the start of our disagreements, she wanted space. And I used to say to her, well, if you don't want to talk about it right now, that means you don't care about me. And that wasn't true. She just needed space to process. So it took time for us to mature. For me to realize, wait a minute. You wanting space is you caring for the relationship?

Benny Blanco

When you start dating someone, you're not only dating them. You're dating every single person they've ever dated, every single relationship they've ever had in their past, every. Because you're getting every piece of baggage that that person's carried and that what they've learned through their own personal life, through the life with partners, their parents, with this, that. And I had to find a way to build that trust with her, not make it feel overbearing and make it feel real and make her actually believe it and vice versa. Like, I know that she fully tr. If I say, hey, I'm just going to do this today, there's nowhere in her mind that's thinking that. And if for any chance that she. I always Told her I said, it's okay if you have moments of doubt in something, in a feeling, always talk to me, and I'll talk you through anything that you may have. You know, if you say, hey, I know this is a crazy thing. I just had a dream, and I woke up from this dream and I was upset, sometimes she'll just say, like, please tell me I can trust you, or, please tell me you're not doing anything stupid. And I say, you can call me anytime you want. And I'm aware of her strengths, and I'm aware of her weaknesses. And what I try to do is surround her with a lot of things to help her. So if she's away and I have to go to a dinner, then a party, then this thing, then that thing, it's a simple text in between each things that says, hey, babe, I'm going to this next thing. I'm thinking about you.

Jay Shetty

Wait, so the album. I said I love you first.

Benny Blanco

Yes.

Jay Shetty

So, Selena, you said I love you first? Yes.

Kevin Hart

Yes.

Jay Shetty

She said it a few times. What made you want to say that? Because that's a big step, I assume.

Selena Gomez

I definitely have never been the first.

Jay Shetty

So this is the first time in your life you were the first?

Selena Gomez

Yes.

Jay Shetty

Wow.

Selena Gomez

I wanted him to also know how committed I was. And deep down, I just felt that. And I was tired of protecting myself. We had spent enough time together where, you know, I felt like this was my person. And I. I had the courage enough to say it, but I was very nervous, and luckily he said it back.

Benny Blanco

The thing that's crazy is, you know, before you say I love you, it's like this thing. It's, like, taboo. You're scared to say. And then after, you're like, oh, my God, I can't. Like, you want to say it a thousand times in a row. You never want. I can't even understand how I went so long without saying it to her. I say it 3,000 times a day to her. And I. I make sure every day I say I love you so much. Like, I love you a million times. And then I always tell her how beautiful she is and how lucky I am to have her every day.

Selena Gomez

You know, it's so annoyingly cute.

Benny Blanco

And I always want it.

Cal Penn

No.

Benny Blanco

And I always want to do that because I want her to know that every day, I don't take any of anything for granted. And I still look at her, and my breath gets taken away in so many different ways. And I said it to her. Last night, we were sitting. We were in, like, the pool or something together last night, and we were just hanging out, and I was just like, you're so beautiful. And I don't mean that just physically. I'm saying, like, you can feel it. There's like a ring, like an aura around her that exudes just, like, warmth.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

And it just, like, making me want to cry.

Jay Shetty

How do you react in the moment when that happens, Selena? Because, Benny, we're basically the same person. I do the same thing to my wife.

Benny Blanco

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

I do that to Radi. All like, we're so lucky. Rather, we'll just pull the funniest face in the world. Yeah. I was like, how do you react when. When Benny's telling you all these amazing things, Selena?

Selena Gomez

What do you say? Because I say, no, let's be honest. I also am equally grateful. And I tell him that all the time. I. I just. It makes me feel like it's not real. And I'll, Like. Sometimes I'll be like, this seems too good to be true. Like, he's so sweet to me. But now I've accepted it. I think I actually love it so much that it just makes me want to give him that support and that love back. So it's safe to say I feel much safer doing that now. And I like it.

Jay Shetty

I think so many people feel that when someone's that nice, and that's coming from someone who's like that, myself, with friends, family, and obviously with my. With my wife, too, a lot of the time, that's seen as a weakness. Like, people kind of look down on it when someone's that open about their feelings. Especially I get asked that a lot when I'm giving relationship or dating advice. People will be like, oh, no. But if. If I come on too strong, people get turned off. What, this time was different for you, where it's like, he's. He's being really affectionate. He's being really open. But there's a part of you that realizes that's what you want and that's what you deserve.

Selena Gomez

What I felt for Benny, it was. It was. Everything about him was honest. It wasn't just that he was honest with me. He was honest about where he was at in life. And he'll tell me anything that he's feeling, and it made me feel like I could do the same. But he's the one person you know, and you're saying those nice things to me, babe. It's, like, so sweet. But I believe in to where I'm not gonna believe someone who is blowing smoke up my Butt to just make me feel good. He's saying it cause he means it, and I believe it.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, that's beautiful. That honesty that someone has in every area of their life, including their bad days, their tough days, their challenging days. Then when they're saying that whether their day's good or bad, and they feel that way, it resonates with us. I think we all sense that the

Kevin Hart

biggest drug, it's not cocaine, it's not heroin, it's not Molly or opioids. And the biggest drug is fame.

Jay Shetty

And now it's more accessible in different doses.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

It's the.

Kevin Hart

It's the biggest drug. And the reason why it's the biggest drug, because it's a drug that makes you feel like you are powerful. And like everywhere you go, anything you want, everything you want, it's. It's a thing. And if you can't handle this thing, the consequences attached to when that thing is removed are severe. Nobody prepares you for the world of fame. There is no handbook. There is no outline. There is no guide by guide, step one to step. There's nothing. You get it. And yesterday you weren't, and today you

Jay Shetty

are, and tomorrow you're not.

Kevin Hart

No, we're done. People get shell shocked. That to me, has always been the point of no return. At the end of the day, this can wear off. If and when, however sees or decides, and if that were to happen, well, what am I? Where am I? It's all gonna. It's all gonna center back to, are you happy with who you are and what you did? Are you at a point where you are okay? Do you know you and are you okay with you? If you are not, it'll break you.

Jay Shetty

Your energy is incredible. And just the depth. What I love about this, and this was my vision with the show. And you are helping me achieve that, which I'm very grateful for, is I don't think. And I love that you've been doing this more and more with the audible, with heart to heart. Like, we're getting to see your depth. We're getting to see the mind behind you again. As we said earlier, we like to limit people. We like to limit people into, like, you just be a comedian or you just be a race car driver, or you just be an actor. And it's like we're starting to realize that, like you said, you're not just watching someone's life on tv. There's a human here, there's a story here, and we're getting that with you. Do you think it was. Was this Something. Was this an epiphany that you had before the accident or was it that this really. Because in your audible when you talk about like how when it's just silent, you figure out what really matters. Like when I heard that, I was just thinking like our near death experiences, you were told when you came out of it, you should be dead, and you're like, well, I don't remember anything. Does that feel like that was a moment, that there is a massive awakening? Or were you already kind of working with some of this?

Kevin Hart

No, I, I had a. I was always a transparent and authentic person. But yeah, you definitely change.

Jay Shetty

That's what you.

Kevin Hart

You definitely change. And by the way, still changing. I'm not sitting in front of us.

Selena Gomez

Yes.

Kevin Hart

As an unflawed man. Like, I. I am my dad's child and I'm my mother's child as well. There's nothing more humbling than a quiet room. There's nothing more humbling then the realization of what is really like, necessary, what you take for granted and what we don't think twice about is not until that's compromised that the true appreciation for life, I feel like, can sometimes be had. I don't want to speak for everybody because I think there are some people that truly do get it and that truly do thank whatever their space or version of a higher power is daily for life and for what they do. You know, I believe in God, so I'm. I'm not as spiritual as some may be, but I'm very thankful for the life that God has allowed me to, to live and the opportunities that I've been able to embark upon. But I got a lot more appreciation after life was almost gone, right? Like, do you really appreciate your toes? Do you really appreciate your fingers? Like, do you really think about your movement, your joints, vision, smell? Do you really think about how fortunate and lucky you are? It's the only time where I get a little, where I slow up, right? And when, when I'm slowing up is because the reality of that was significant. I really almost died my kids and all that. Like, what? As I'm moving so fast. I didn't even have everything dialed up for if said thing were to happen.

Michelle Obama

What?

Kevin Hart

Oh. Cause I'm. I'm out here, I'm just roaming. I'm out here aimlessly living and I'm moving so fast. I've yet to grasp the true concept and reality of responsibility immediately let me get my responsibilities in order. Because if that had have been, there would have been a lot of people with their hands up as to what, how, when. Fame is great, the lights are great. Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart. Number one of one of one. I was in that room with my goddamn wife, my brother, my kids. You look around, you got a lot of friends. You got a lot of people that love you. But then you start, well, what really matters. That's when my mindset started to change. That's when you go, okay, my approach to just me and working on me, it needs to be different. I've contradicted myself a lot since, you know, I want to slow down. I'm going to make sure I give my family more time. I have. That doesn't mean that there can't be more. The day to day battle of am I giving enough? Am I? Guys, you know how much dad loves you. I'm here. I'm like, you know, always working to make sure I do more. But is it enough? My workaholic. Okay, but that's not a bad thing because I'm. You love to work. Yes, you do. That's a passion you get. You got something that you go after every day. That is a driving source for me. I'm not in the business of letting that go, but. Or you better put your hands on these people and make sure. You better make sure that you are giving the time that you said you would when you were in that time of solace. Okay. All right. I'm constantly talking to myself. I have these conversations all the time. That's the beauty of taking my little runs, the beauty of working out, being in the gym. You talk to yourself, you better talk to yourself, you better have conversations. Figure out a yin and yang of good and bad. For me, it was about personal evolvement. After that accident and still trying, man, it's the biggest battle. The biggest battle is just doing right all the time.

Kerry Washington

That's a battle I used to value. I mean, stuff. I live in an area where there would be fires a lot. And there was probably four times we had to fully pack up the house. Everything out. House is catching on fire. Property caught on fire. Like really close to losing everything. First time, packed up my entire shoe and bag closet and a lot of them because they were memory stuff from my dad. Stuff in high school, but all designer stuff. Also videos, photos, whatever. Digitized everything, put everything important somewhere else. Second, pack up the designer stuff but leave some of the clothes. You know, I don't really need all the clothes, but I packed a hotel for months. Bags and bags. Every designer thing that I had had to come. Third Time. Leave all the bags and shoes. I don't need them. We got all the photos. We got all the. My little blankie when I was little, you know, the kids stuff. Fourth time. Leave everything. Me and my babies, that's all I need. You know, I have all my photos digitized. I have everything digital. We got our passports. We're good.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Kerry Washington

And that, like, evolution of, like, they had to go in and get all my designer stuff or I'm not leaving my house, you know, it's going to catch on fire. And now I'm like, nothing is worth it. Nothing is important. And I think that comes from life experiences, scary experiences, things shaking you to your core to make you realize that nothing is important. You can't. I know everyone says this, but, like, you can't take it with you. None of it is important.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. There's a beautiful Islamic proverb that says, detachment doesn't mean that you own nothing. It means that nothing owns you. And I feel so often we become owned by.

Kerry Washington

I love that.

Jay Shetty

Dreams, our desires, our pursuits, our things.

Kerry Washington

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

It doesn't mean that we have to give them all away or we don't have those things. It's just if and when we have to let go.

Kerry Washington

Totally.

Jay Shetty

Are we willing. Are we able to let go?

Kerry Washington

Totally. Even with work stuff, I mean, it doesn't just have to be the material things, like you said, like your dreams. And it's okay to be able to let go but work so hard to, like, the opposites are okay. Contradicting yourself a little bit in those ways. You know, it's like in, in relationships, you can love a person, miss a person so much, but still have the wisdom to know they're not your person and you're better off not together. That, like, opposite connection with everything, I think is really important to have that awareness in everything in life. Relationships, material things, all of that.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. I, I, I officiated a wedding a few years ago, and someone came up to me from the audience and, and said to me, jay, I realized from what you were saying that they'd just gone through a breakup recently, and they were saying, jay, I realized that I love that person, but we didn't like each other anymore. And it was that essence of, like, there'll always be that deep love for each other.

Kerry Washington

Yeah, but we just don't like family, you know? Like, you love people and. But it's okay to feel a protection of a person, but then also protecting yourself and realizing when you have to and when it's time and it's okay to feel all of the opposite emotions. You know, I think as long as you're really well aware and go through the motions and feel things and don't hold things in, it's so important whether it's, you know, breakups, deaths. I've always been really clear headed and like gone through the feelings, gone through the emotions more in those relationships, more in those lifelong relationships that you hope for and then also be okay and calm and realizing I've always been someone like okay, my dad died, why is this happening? What was his purpose here and how are we gonna grow and learn from this experience? And I always said that like right when he passed and I was felt it and super emotional about it and you know, cry all the time when great things happen that I wish he was here. But also I had a wisdom at like a younger age to understand that this is like a part of our journey and a part of our like evolution and this happens and this is why you have to hold on to relationships even more precious but don't let things destroy you at the same time.

Jay Shetty

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Cal Penn

hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with Lily Chu, the author of the the Audible original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already. It's a story about a forensic anthropologist who secretly writes mystery novels, an actress who adapts his book into a film, and what happens when a meme and a media tour collide with a slow burn romance. It's performed by Simu Liu and Philippa Hsu, and it is an absolute blast.

Jay Shetty

When you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence like the cat in the corner is black. In my head it's the cat in the corner is black. Not the dog, not the gerbil. But someone else might say it, the

Michelle Obama

cat in the corner is black.

Jay Shetty

That's always fascinating to me how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive.

Cal Penn

Listen to Irsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Spiritual Teacher

We live in a very busy, chaotic world. Lots of noise, lots of distraction. I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh, you know, social media and like all the, you know, people can't walk down the street without listening to music. Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. Like there's no peace. There's no quiet. When we're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves, why am I here? What am I doing? Or what is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now? Whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising my children, decisions that I make about everything, really. I have to ask myself and if you don't have a spiritual life, you're never gonna stop and ask any questions. You're just gonna plow through life. And if you just. And you're gonna see everything that happens to you as just a random event. And I don't believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us, to teach us some kind of a lesson. But, you know, the question is, are you aware enough? Are you awake enough? Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is? Like, why did this happen to me? What is my lesson? I don't want to go through life seeing everything that happens to me is random. But I also don't want to go through life as a victim. And I've had a pretty challenging life. And it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like being a victim or, you know, why. Why isn't this happening to other people? Why is it happening to me? Why don't I have what that person has? I'm sure you know, the expression comparison is the killer of joy. So, you know, it's like, you gotta. To get out of that game, you have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.

Jay Shetty

You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across called the third space theory. Have you heard of it? It's this idea that as humans around 50 years ago, we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home, and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church, a community center, or a third space.

Spiritual Teacher

And.

Jay Shetty

And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying was a place that you could look back at work and home and you could reflect on your life. You could take stock, you could introspect. But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it may be.

Spiritual Teacher

A place of self reflection.

Jay Shetty

A place of self reflection. And we ended up with working home. And then after the pandemic, we lost work. And so now we're in one space, and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying.

Spiritual Teacher

Go back even one more step. That to me is like a prison. Get. If you get. If you remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace, then you. You're in the home. And then removed once more from home is your looking at your phone, which is. Even takes you out of home.

Jay Shetty

It's a great point. Yeah.

Spiritual Teacher

So where are you you're nowhere.

Jay Shetty

We're all living in the virtual world. Yeah, we're living in the virtual world. Not even in the material world. We're just.

Spiritual Teacher

Yes, but a virtual and a virtual world is not a bad world. But if you don't have consciousness, there's really no point to living.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, it's. Yeah. So it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had. We need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things.

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Spiritual Teacher

I mean, some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen.

Jay Shetty

What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued. I'm curious. What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey, that have kept you going at the times, as you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong. You kept pushing and you kept. They kept you locked. What were they? What are they?

Spiritual Teacher

Well, one really important thing is studying. Making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Cahill Gibran, or you can study the Vedas. You.

Jay Shetty

You know, and you did that, right? You actually studied different traditions on your.

Spiritual Teacher

I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I. I was looking for answers.

Jay Shetty

Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers?

Spiritual Teacher

Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had successful career. I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy. And I naturally sought out. Well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate, she was a Buddhist, and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that. Like, nothing bothered her. You know what I mean? Everything bothers me. Everything bothers me. I'm, you know, I'm a Leo, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic. I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness that everything was happening for a reason. She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career when I was living in New York and I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened to me. Really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her, her name is Mariana, would always say, what? Like, why are you, like, never upset? So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me. And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga. And my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still has a love.

Jay Shetty

Eddie. He's great.

Spiritual Teacher

You know Eddie.

Selena Gomez

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

I Do?

Spiritual Teacher

Yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up in and competitive about, like, first series, second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses. They would just go and sit in front of the statue of Ganesh or light candles or prayer. And I realized. And Eddie pointed it out to me, because sometimes I would have injuries. I would. Or I would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga. And he'd say, look, are you breathing? And I'd say, yes. And he said, you're practicing yoga. So I realized that I was too still too caught up in the physical poses. He's like, no, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point. The poses are just something that you do to breathe through, to calm your nervous system down and to bring you back to your center. And that really spoke to me.

Emma Watson

You know, you always get asked when you're, like, promoting these big films, like, so do you guys hang out on set? And, like, do you guys hang out? And, like, are you all friends? And everyone sort of, like, nods enthusiastically. But the truth is no one has seen each other outside of work, like, very, very, very rarely. Mostly because the schedule is insane. Everyone's so tired that when they get any time off, you're going straight back to your hotel room to try to, like, claw in any piece of rest that you possibly can. And, like, I don't know, like, it. Friendships require time and trust and presence, and those things, like, very rarely come about. They can and they, like, do occasionally, but it's more of a. More of a, you know, solar eclipse than an everyday situation. So. Yeah, but you have to pretend. I think that's the part that starts to feel icky after a while, is like, you. You have to pretend that you're all best friends and what's so sad. And I know this isn't just the case for me, but, like, I think people wish they were. I think we wish we did have those real connections and we did have that real support. And so having to pretend that something exists that you actually really want but don't have is, like.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

It's, like, pretty grainy in the wound.

Emma Watson

You know, it's like. It's pretty, like, tough pill to swallow to have to act out something that you wish were real but isn't. And I think that's the part that starts to kind of. Yeah, I can only speak for myself, but those are definitely the moments where I've Been like this feels dark like anyone else. Like this feels dark.

Selena Gomez

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

And there's such a real reminder that it's still work. And it's almost like asking anyone who works at any company and saying, hey, do you hang out with your team after work every night? And the answer is probably not. Yeah, no. Everyone wants to go home to their family. And maybe you've got a couple, of course you've got a couple of friends at work. And it's wonderful if you have a friend at work that you work out with or see after hours but you're not hanging out as the whole crew. It's very unlikely, 100%. And it is that reality check of. No. But this is also just work and their character stories are not their personal stories. And it doesn't. And that's why I wanted to go back. You mentioned that you talked about how Harry Potter had a family feel and I wanted to ask you how did that come about in the first. Like, what, what was, where did the auditions come from? Like, how did that become a part of your life?

Emma Watson

Yes. So I did not go to a performing arts school. I'd never done anything, I never acted professionally. But they came, they, they did like a basically country wide search to find Harry, Hermione and Ron. And so they asked my school and if they wanted to submit any students who love drama who wanted to audition. And so I was one of, I think about 12 students that was asked if I wanted to audition. I don't know, it was weird. I had this weird weighted fated sense of destiny pretty much from the moment that, that they said they mentioned the audition. I remember I brought I think maybe like seven different Beanie Babies with me along and like all these different like lucky talismans. And I loved the world and the books so much. My dad had been reading them to me before bed when I would spend the weekends with him. And on long car journeys we'd often drive back and forwards to France and that's how the time would be passed. And so I was just like. Loved the world, loved Hermione. And for me it wasn't so much about acting so much as it was that like I just, the books meant so much to me personally.

Jay Shetty

Did you feel like it was destiny for you or did it feel like, did you always feel like it was gonna be this?

Emma Watson

I always.

Jay Shetty

Cause obviously the books were already, you

Emma Watson

know, I always felt like Hermione was. I knew I was never auditioning for anything else. Like I knew it was her. I don't know. I Don't know how to explain it. Something felt right about it. And my. Yeah, my poor parents. Because if I hadn't have got it, I think they knew her crusher. I ended up doing nine auditions over a period of over a year and a half, which for a nine year old is a lot of work, a massive commitment. But I was, I loved her. I loved it. I really did.

Professional Athlete

What I try to do is just try to be still and understand that things come and go, emotions come and go. The important thing is to accept them all, to embrace them all, and then you can choose to do with them what you want versus being controlled by emotion. You know, a lot of times I've seen players, even myself, you know, when I was younger, being consumed by a particular. The fear. And to the point where you're saying, okay, no, it's, it's not good to feel fear. I shouldn't be nervous in this situation. Like not. And it does nothing but grow versus stepping back and saying, yeah, I am nervous about the situation. Yeah, I am fearful about the situation. Well, what am I afraid of? And then you kind of unpack it and then it gives you the ability to look at it for really what it is, which is nothing more than your imagination running its course, you know?

Jay Shetty

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Because what you're saying is that when you're dealing with something, it's almost like, how can I get to the root of it?

Spiritual Teacher

It.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, because sometimes what we're dealing with, like you're saying it's an imagination illusion. It's not really, it's not, it's not really a thing.

Professional Athlete

You know, like you think about game winning shots and, or game winning free throws and people go to the free throw line and they're nervous about it. Well, what are you really nervous about if you unpack that? Okay. You're nervous that you're going to miss the shot. All right, so you missed a shot. Then what happens? People are going to be embarrassed. You're going to be embarrassed because thousands of people, millions of people see you missed a shot. All right, and then what? People are going to talk bad about you. Okay, Right. And so you're looking at it and go, are those things even important? You know what I mean? If that, that is my fear, like what is you worried about letting your teammates down? Okay. Have you let them down before? Well, I'm sure in practice and things of that nature. Right. They're still there.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Professional Athlete

You know, and so when you're able to unpack it, you kind of look at it for what it is, which is really nothing.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, I love that. Breaking it down, I think that's so important. I think everyone who's listening or watching right now, next time you're facing, next time you're going against something, do that, like literally unpack it. Don't just settle for your first answer because the first answer is really the right one.

Professional Athlete

Don't hide from it. You know, you gotta be able to look at it and you know, and deal with it head on.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, I love that, man. And you talk about that because you talk about, you know when you talk about missing five throws and you talk about getting over yourself. Yeah, right. Like getting over yourself. How did you get that mentality of just being like I need to get over this, like I need to get over myself.

Professional Athlete

You know, trial and error, you know, you grow up and you make game winning shots and it's awesome. You come back the next day and miss a game winning shot and it's misery. And then the next day comes and you're back playing again and you understand that life has this cyclical nature where it's, you know, what you do on Monday is fantastic. But then Tuesday is a bad day, but guess what, there's Wednesday. So are we just supposed to live our lives like this the whole time, you know, versus just staying like this and understanding that it's really just a journey of evolution every day. It's just constant improvement, constant curiosity, constantly getting better. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. And we all get obsessed about the results.

Michelle Obama

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

We get obsessed about like the output.

Professional Athlete

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Not the input of not figuring it out and not like changing things. What you said trial and error, like the experimenting.

Professional Athlete

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

We forget to do that.

Professional Athlete

It's unfortunate, man. Like I've seen a lot of players, especially now, you know, in youth basketball dealing with that. You have players that are like bigger and faster and stronger and you know, their coaches are just coaching them for results. You know, we're just going to use your size that because you're bigger than every other 12 year old out there to dominate today. But they're not growing. Right. So they're just based on that result. But they're not focused on growing this young child into becoming a better athlete and through that teaching them how to become a more well rounded person.

Jay Shetty

And.

Professional Athlete

And we're missing that.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. See what you've said there? Just. I want to ask you this and I'm not saying because I, you know, like, you know yourself best and you know how you've got there. So I'm asking it from a place of humility, of learning. When I look at you, I'm like, you know, your superpower isn't just your work ethic. Your superpower isn't just like figuring things out. Your superpowers, like, you think strategically, like, that's a very strategic thought of saying this person could be this in the future if they were developed as a whole individual, rather than just like, let's use them for the short term. Right. Where did you develop that from? That ability to see beyond, to think deeper, to. To reflect deeper. Where did that come from?

Professional Athlete

Well, I had to do that because, you know, I grew up, growing up in Italy. When I first moved over there, it was, you know, I didn't speak Italian. I didn't have any friends. You know, I had the game of basketball. And through sport and playing soccer, I was able to make friends and build connections. But it was a lot of time spent alone. And when I came back to the States, I wasn't the most athletic kid. You know, I was really scrawny, like really, really skinny and had like major knee issues because I was growing. So I was the dorky kid with high socks and big old knee pads.

Jay Shetty

It's fashionable now.

Professional Athlete

It's fashionable now. It wasn't then. It wasn't then. And so I had to look long term because in the here and now, I couldn't compete with these kids. I mean, there's kids that were like 12 years old with beards.

Jay Shetty

Like, I can't.

Professional Athlete

What am I supposed to do with that? Like, they're doing windmills and dunking backwards and I'm happy to, like tap the backboard, you know. So I had to look at it from a long term because I wasn't going to give up on the game, right? So I had to say, okay, this year I'm going to get better at that. Next year, this. And then so forth and so on. And then patiently, I was able to catch them.

Tom Hughes

The quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me. And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

Jay Shetty

That is so good.

Tom Hughes

And I think that that is such a great piece of advice because as a celebrity, you live on this stage, you live out there, you kind of give out a version of yourself that you want people to see. And that can be the version of yourself that they can have a problem with or they can love. And there is a, you know, I feel like I'm quite authentic in my public Persona, but I just try to really care about what my family thinks, what my friends think, what the people in my local community think. I live in Kingston, I know everyone that lives there. I can't walk five feet without bumping into one of my mum's friends. So, yeah, so it's something I've been working on. I try my best to not let that stuff affect me. It does, yeah.

Jay Shetty

Of course.

Tom Hughes

I'm not cold hearted or anything like that. It does affect me, but I just try to. To move on and focus on the positives.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What, what was a. Did you ever see your dad deal with everything and you thought, wow, that was incredible. That. Was there anything specific that you remember that, like seeing him like tackle something and you thought, wow, that really impressed me. Even if it was something really small. In hindsight, I think the thing I

Tom Hughes

admire most about my dad is his resilience. You know, he's someone who has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life and then later in life his career sort of plateaued and he struggled and he's never stopped, he's never given up. He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books, he has a patron, he has a podcast. He's constantly grafting to get to where he wants to be. And I think being a young kid and seeing your dad continually working as hard as he can to kind of put his best foot forward for me has been a huge drive for my work ethic. I'll give it 100% or I'll give it nothing. And I think a lot of that has come from my dad and seeing him deal with that. The funny thing about my dad is he'd talk about doing a bad gig. I must have seen him 20 times. I've never seen him do a bad gig. He always seems to absolutely rip it, but maybe that's just because we're in the audience, but he. But no, I owe a lot to my dad and a lot of the teachings are things he's told me and things I've just witnessed him do?

Jay Shetty

Yeah. And was there ever a piece of feedback or a rumor or something you saw that did affect you, where you actually thought or at least made you stop and go, God, I'm trying to see the positives, but this one's tough. Like. Like this actually made me have to pause and figure it out.

Tom Hughes

Something that did really upset me. I was in New York, I was shooting the Crowded Room and I was Having a really hard time with the job just because of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I was having to get to every day. And I decided to delete my Instagram because I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over. I would be on set working. I'd come and sit in my chair and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And it was. It was becoming a problem. I was just obsessed with it, and I was obsessed to find out what people were saying and how people. What they thought about me. So I decided to make an announcement, which unfortunately, we have to do, and say that I'm taking a break from social media. And I tried to position myself and say, like, I'm taking a break from social media because I feel like my mental health will benefit from it. And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that, and they tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown. And what upset me was if I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They took the story in the wrong direction, and they painted, again this negative light on mental health, rather than saying, oh, he's doing it. It's okay that he's doing it, so we should all feel okay to do it too. They were saying, oh, look, he's not the perfect, happy, go, lucky kid you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. And I think that that was a really unfair line of journalism, let's say, because I just think it, again, kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong light, if you know what I mean.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It almost sounds like you were actually preemptively going, I'm doing this so that I don't.

Tom Hughes

Right.

Jay Shetty

Go in that direction.

Tom Hughes

Totally.

Jay Shetty

At least I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but absolutely. It's almost like I'm proactively seeing that I. I could end up in a position where, sure, I might have a breakdown. I don't want to be in that position. And so I'm responsibly saying, guys, I'm taking a break in order to protect myself 100%. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense and actually is quite admirable. Again.

Tom Hughes

Totally. And that's kind of what the message of the show is about. Like, the message of our show is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate.

Spiritual Teacher

Yeah.

Tom Hughes

If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel bad and you wake up and you go to a friend, a therapist, a teacher, an employee or a colleague and say, I'm really struggling. I need some help. That should be something that we give you a pat on the back. Like, I would love to help you. I'm delighted that you asked me and that for me that announcement was kind of my olive branch and the press ran with it how they ran with it. But to be fair, it kind of gave me a great drive to finish the Crowded room in the way that we did to like, if you're not going to listen to my personal message, then you have to listen to the message of my show. Yeah, so it kind of went hand in hand.

Jay Shetty

Awkward time to ask this, but hey, did you download the trail map? Yeah, no, I don't need to.

Professional Athlete

I I don't understand.

Jay Shetty

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Michelle Obama

Whoa.

Jay Shetty

I don't trust my carrier that much. We'll just use your phone is a flashlight. With America's best network and T Satellite,

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Cal Penn

I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

Ray Porter

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this it? Indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great cuz it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.

Cal Penn

Listen to Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tom Hughes

I just wanted to do dry January and all I could think about was having a drink. It's all I could think about. I was waking up thinking about it. I was checking the clock. When's it? 12? And it just really scared me. I just was like, wow, maybe, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing. So I sort of decided to punish myself and say, I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off. If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. Two months go by and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda. I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling. And I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem. So I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, if I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I Don't have a problem. And by the time I had got to June 1, I was the happiest I'd ever been in my life. I could sleep better, I could handle problems better. Things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride. I had so much, such better mental clarity. I felt healthier, I felt fitter. And I just sort of said to myself, like, why, why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink? And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for, for work and, you know, I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers. And I just felt so much pressure. And this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community because so much of it is about, how much can you drink? Let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and a half into it now. It doesn't even cross my mind. I found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic ones that are also really healthy. I found this one beer that it's full of electrolytes and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long lasting energy. So like having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing. I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it. I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like, oh God, just have a beer, like, you're fine. They've always sort of really supported me and I don't want to be that person that's saying to people, you should get sober, you should get sober. If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great. But I, I don't want to start getting into the world of, you need to stop drinking. Because I just, it's, it's not for me to say. I went on my own little journey. I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my mum's almost has also given up. She's loving it and it's been amazing. I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking. Yeah, I feel amazing.

Jay Shetty

That's amazing, man. I love hearing that and I love hearing that. It's been great for you, right? I think, yeah, that's the point. Not everything has to be like, look what I did, you can do it too. It's kind of like, no, this is just what's been great for Me? Do you think it was partly that attitude for you, at least in the beginning, where it's like, well, I can drink. I drink a lot. It comes from my mum jeans and it doesn't affect me. And then all of a sudden you realize, well, wait a minute, it's more than that, because I think there is that. Like, I was like that as a young man as well. Like, for me, it was. It was easy to drink. I didn't drink daily. For me, I drank a lot more socially. Sure. And I love playing drinking games with my mates. Yeah, that was what I enjoyed the most, probably. And for me, when I quit, I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk. So for sure, for me it was more that. But, yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that there's a really fine line between, like, oh, I know I can drink a lot. And then all of a sudden you're kind of addicted? Not addicted beyond that.

Tom Hughes

No, addicted, mate, I'm happy to say. Like, I was definitely addicted to alcohol. Not shying away from that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and has not wakes up, anyone that has a beer every day is probably got a little bit of a problem. But, yeah, you're right. I would drink and drink and drink and drink. And then you would just reach that moment where you're like, wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer. And you wake up the next day and you have a terrible headache and you're suffering. I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, Aura ring.

Tom Hughes

Yeah. And it was amazing because I couldn't sleep. I was like, why can't I sleep? I'm working 14 hours a day, I'm doing two hours in the gym, I'm eating really healthily and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me? I bought this ring and it was booze. It just. It was completely affecting my sleep. And since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere, you know, it's also interesting as well, going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear and everyone's, I love you, man. I love you so much. And you're like, yeah, brilliant. I love you too. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm going to bed. I love being that person now. I love seeing my friends on the golf courses at 8am in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go, and they're sort of crawling out their car.

Michelle Obama

So.

Tom Hughes

Yeah. So I'm over the moon to be sober. I love it.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

There are three pillars of adult friendship based on research that are also gonna help you understand that when people come and go in your life, 99% of the time, it's not personal, and you actually haven't lost them as a friend. One of the three pillars is missing. So the three things that need to be required to have a friendship happen are the same three things that were around all the time when you were a kid. Number one, proximity. Proximity matters tremendously. Proximity means who are you actually physically next to? In fact, they've done research, Jay. If you and I were in a dorm and we lived across the hall. I don't remember the percentages exactly, but it's like 90% chance we're gonna be friends.

Jay Shetty

Interesting.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

The poor person at the end of the hallway, 10% chance that we're gonna be friends with them. Because of proximity, even a matter of 50ft makes a difference. And so when you were little, you were in proximity to people your age all the time?

Jay Shetty

All day.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

Exactly. The research also shows that to have, as an adult, a kind of casual friend, you need to spend approximately 70 hours with somebody to have a close friend, 200 hours. So when you're an adult, that creates a big problem, because who are you spending all your time with once you're 20? The American time study shows that it's with people you work with. So why aren't we best friends with people at work? Because you have proximity and you're spending a lot of time together. But here's the thing. Timing. When you were little, you were in the same timing of life with everybody.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

When you hit your 20s and it's now individual, everybody's on different timelines. Some of your friends are getting married. Some are going to graduate school. Some are now pursuing jobs. Other people are moving out of the city into the city. Everybody's timing is now different. And this also explains why you're almost never best friends with people at work, because the timing is off. You're sitting next to people that are in very different times of their life. You may like them a lot, and you may be friends, but you never spend time outside of work because they're at home with their family, and you're going out with your buddies your age on the weekends. And then that brings me to the third thing that needs to be present for a friendship to truly click. And that's energy. And the thing about energy Is it changes. And you can have fantastic energy with somebody, and then if you decide you're not drinking anymore, the energy's off. If you decide to get really focused on fitness, the energy's off. If you have very different political beliefs, the energy's off. It's not personal. It's one of these three pillars. And it has helped me so profoundly, Jay, to realize that people come and go, and it's a beautiful thing, and you should let them. And you should really, if you have a friendship that starts to dissipate. Right. Ask yourself before you blame them or you blame you. Are any one of these three pillars missing? Are we not near each other anymore? Is the timing of our lives off? Is there just something about the energy that hasn't clicked? Because you can't force those things. But what I've found is that when you recognize that those are really important factors to your connection to someone else, that if a friendship starts to fade, for me, it's so easy to say, let them. And I don't wish anybody bad. I literally wish people well. Because the other thing that I've learned, and, you know, being 56, I've had a lot of friends come and go in different phases of my life, that you would be startled by how many people from your past that you no longer quote, consider friends. Cause you haven't seen them in a very long time, or things just got weird. If you actually called them, they'd pick up the phone.

Jay Shetty

They would.

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

If you texted them. The research shows that when you get a surprise text from somebody that you haven't heard from in a long time, the amount of joy that you feel. And so I want you to consider, if you're very lonely right now, that there's actually probably hundreds of people from your past that still consider you a friend. And if you take the approach that I'm talking about, which is friendship is your responsibility, you need to go first, let me create the friendship and the connection that I want. And you can start by literally taking a look through your past and thinking about people that you remember fondly and just sending them a text. And you will be startled by what comes back, because they're there. They haven't actually gone anywhere. The connection is still there. And oftentimes, even if you've had somebody where something's been off again, let them and wish them well. And there will be a time, I promise you, where the timing or proximity or energy comes back around again.

Michelle Obama

It took me a while to learn that, you know, there's no way we could be everything to each other. We have different interests, different goals. There was this stage in my marriage where I thought that's what a partner was supposed to be. You know, you should call me all the time. We should talk all the time. We should be each other's best friends all the time. Our marriage got better when I got better about that, because I think he already had that independence. This notion of, I love you even if I don't talk to you today, that to me is like, I don't need that. I felt like I needed more of that. But as I got older, right, I got more mature, more clear about my own goals. I realized that I, you know, he can't be responsible for my happiness. I have to be responsible for that. I have to define it for myself. I have to learn how to achieve it. My husband is definitely a part of that, but he is not the. I cannot put him in the center of my happiness. That freed me up to let him be him and let me be me. So I have friends who give me things that my husband doesn't give me. I have girlfriends. One distinction that we have is, like, I'm a talker, all right? When I sit down with my girlfriends, we can talk for days. I mean, literally for days. We can take a break for lunch, but we can talk. You know, my husband's not. He can talk, but he will come by a friendship session. You know, nine o' clock in the morning, I have a friend staying with me, and he's like, what are y' all talking about? It's like, well, we're just now getting into our kids, and we're gonna talk about each one of them separately for, like, an hour. He's like, I couldn't do that, right? He can't be that for me. But I have really good, mostly girlfriends who give me that. You know, we will dissect life to the bitter. We will wring everything out of every subject. And he's like, I think I'm done. I was like, well, you can go be done, because I've got her. And we just got started. We're gonna. We got 12 more hours to go, right?

Jay Shetty

And that's so beautiful to hear, because I think, especially when we're young, we think that that person has to be all of that and from the beginning, or they'll become it. There's the other fallacy of, like, oh, well, I know who they could be and who they could become. How much of that did you feel you had to disconnect and detach from of like what this person could be to you. Obviously not in the world.

Michelle Obama

But I had a disconnect from all of those beliefs. Right. And every couple is different. I found I, I know people who are each other's best friends. They like to travel together, they walk and hold hands. And I, I have friends who are in relationships where they talk like every hour. I'm like, are you talking to him again? Nothing changed. You know, it's up to the individuals to define that for themselves.

Jay Shetty

That's the key word. Yeah.

Michelle Obama

For Barack and I. And I think you should be clear about that. Because the other thing is that when we hold on internally to an expectation of the other person, we don't even share it. So now we're mad that you haven't even fulfilled something I never even told you I needed. You know, that takes time and it takes work, which is why marriage is hard.

Selena Gomez

Right.

Michelle Obama

Because you'll have the tendency to live in your head and live out the image of what you want them to be. And you haven't even communicated that to them. That's just one little fraction of the challenge of marriage and friendship and all of that. It's hard. It takes time, but it's worth it.

Jay Shetty

Absolutely. Yeah. I think those, those check ins are the hardest. I know that there's four check ins that I try and keep a good habit around with my wife that have really helped me. One of them is every day I'll ask her, like, what was your highlight today? Or what did you learn today? Something, Something positive. Something like, what's, what's the best thing that happened to you today? I want to know because it's so easy for us to get so busy in our days, not see each other all day, not speak all day. And days can go by like that too, because we're also traveling. Then every week I try and ask her, like, how can I, what can I help you with this week? Like, is there something coming up that I just need to be aware of? Sometimes it's just information. And that gives me an opportunity to also tell her. I've got a really stressful week coming up. Just know that I may not be at my best this week. I'm just letting you know. Every month I'm checking in with her and trying to just say to her, like, what's your big focus for this month? Like, you know, what's the big thing that you're working on then? Every year is easy. Like, you know, what's your goal this year? A resolution or whatever. And I find that those questions. And sometimes every quarter, I'll ask a question, which is the hardest one. But it's like, is this relationship going in the direction you want it to? And if it isn't, what are you willing to do? And what am I willing to do to get it back on track?

Michelle Obama

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Because I find so often, like, if you just don't talk about that deep intimacy, you're just going on different tracks. And that's why five years later, you're like, well, I don't know you anymore.

Michelle Obama

Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty

And so I find that, like, staying in close contact. But one of the biggest things I read, which I wanted to try with you, is the Gottman Institute talked about how the number one skill or habit in relationships, and they looked at couples who'd stayed together the longest, and they found it wasn't date nights, it wasn't vacations, it wasn't any of this stuff. It was learning how to fight. It was knowing how to deal with conflict. And most couples, obviously, we all go, well, we never fight or we're never going to fight, but it's inevitable. So I came up with these three fight styles, and I wanted to know how you see yourself and how you see President Obama, how he would see himself. And so here, the three fight styles are a venter, which means I want to fix and solve it. Right now, you like to vent, but you're really trying to fix and solve it. The second one is you're a hider. You need time and space to think about it. Just want to go spend time by yourself. And then the third one is the exploder, where it's like, I want my emotions to be heard, felt and seen before we take time apart or before we try and solve it. Which one are you?

Michelle Obama

Okay, so I've changed over.

Jay Shetty

Interesting.

Michelle Obama

Early on in our relationships, I was more of an exploder.

Emma Watson

Wow.

Michelle Obama

I think he has been always been a fixer, right?

Jay Shetty

The venter. Yeah.

Michelle Obama

Fixer.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Michelle Obama

So then I would be explosive and then wanna hide.

Benny Blanco

Right.

Michelle Obama

It's like I wanna explode. Let me have my emotions and then give me a moment.

Jay Shetty

Yes.

Michelle Obama

Right. And he's like, we've gotta fix this. We've gotta, you know, shut this down. We gotta. I will figure it out. Let's talk this through. And I love that about him, especially as a man. You know, he is somebody that is not afraid to put his emotions out. He's smart and so he knows me. So he's like. He won't let me pretend like there's nothing wrong because he Knows. I know there's something you're a little off. But I've had to learn that exploding on a fixer, it doesn't feel good to them, right? It just, you know, it feels good for me. Yes, but it doesn't feel good for him, right? But he's learned that as a hider, that I do need a little more time, right? If I'm exploding, I can't be rational enough to talk through your fixing. And you. If you want to fix it, then I've got to be in a rational place. So let me hide for a minute so I can get myself down to a fixer place. Yes, I think that's been the trajectory of our sorting through, learning how to argue.

Jay Shetty

If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough. Simple communication is not a sign of a lack of intelligence. It's a sign of deep understanding as a speaker, a leader, a communicator, a manager, whatever you may be. If you're able to be concise, simple, it will be so much more powerful. Remember, confusion creates resistance. Clarity creates cooperation. If someone doesn't understand you, they can't support you. Good communicators ask if they were understood. Bad communicators assume they were. Good communicators aim for understanding. Bad communicators aim to be right. Notice the difference. Principle 3. People don't argue with facts, they argue with threat. Here's a powerful insight. Most disagreements are not about facts. They're about identity and safety. When people feel embarrassed, judged or blamed, their brain stops listening. Let me say that again. When people feel embarrassed, judged or blamed, their brain stops listening. How many times have you stopped listening when you felt that way? Now think about all the times you spoke that way and thought it would affect someone. I know I've made that mistake. I constantly feel that if someone really understands what they got wrong or they were really made clear on the mistake they made, that that would make them listen more. But actually we're not listening to that because it's not factual. It feels like opinion. It feels personal. It feels like an attack. Researching conflict psychology shows that once someone feels threatened, they prioritize self protection over understanding. This is actually mind blowing. You think about all the interactions you have home or work. When you make someone feel attacked, they're only thinking about protecting themselves. Effective communicators lower threat first at work. Here's what I'm seeing. Tell me if I'm missing something at home. This matters to me and I want to understand your side. These Phrases do one thing, they create safety. Remember this, People don't need to feel corrected, they need to feel considered. Once safety is present, truth can land. Before sharing feedback, before saying something that's hard to hear, before you're about to have a difficult conversation, first, set safety. Second, make sure that anything you're saying is coming with the intention of safety. And choose your words that really align with that energy because you want to have an impact. A lot of people say, well, I should just be able to say what I want and people should understand, well, if that's what you want, then that isn't a relationship based on care. It's not a relationship based on love. It's not a relationship based on connection. It's a relationship based on you wanting people to understand you, but not taking the moment to understand them. I think this can all change for us. It can all change when we prioritize. Principle 4 questions change everything One of the most powerful communication tools is curiosity. Research from negotiation psychology shows that asking open ended questions reduces defensiveness and increases cooperation. Statements trigger resistance. Questions invite collaboration. Instead of you're not listening, ask, can you tell me what you heard from what I just said? Instead of this isn't working, ask, what do you think would make this work better? Questions shift the dynamic from opposition to partnership. Here's a phrase that instantly de escalates tension. Help me understand that sentence creates space where conflict used to be. There are so many challenges with the growth of AI. There are so many risks that it presents. But one of the things that I'm grateful it has done is that it has brought humans back to asking better questions. We grew up at a time when answers were everything. Now we know answers are everywhere and all of a sudden questions and prompts are the key to our intelligence. The better you are at asking questions, the better results you'll actually get from AI. So that's a great way for us to test whether we know how to ask good questions, whether our questioning and curiosity ability is actually impro moving. That's the goal. If you can do that, you will actually lead your team, guide people, move people in a much stronger way. Manifestation is clarity about what you want and what it takes. Manifestation is writing it down and then building it step by step. Manifestation is persistence when motivation fades. Manifestation is aligning your choices with your values, not just your wishes. If you just make it about your wishes. If you just make it about what you're writing. If you don't ever make it about the how right people say start with why really Important. You should know why you're doing what you're doing. You should know what you want to build. But if you don't know how you're going to get there, it's almost the hardest thing, right? If you don't know how you're going to get to the party on a Saturday night, if you don't know how you're going to get to your vacation destination, if you don't know how you're going to build that company, it becomes a lot harder. Spend more time figuring out the how and you'll know that you're making momentum. You'll know you're making progress. You'll know you're moving in the right direction. See, the thing is, I really want you to get there. I really want you to experience the joy of building something you love. I don't just want it to remain a dream in your mind and your heart. Space that never gets to see the light of day. Myth number four, the universe rewards wanting. If I want it badly enough, I'll get it. It does not work that way. Desire is fuel, but direction is the map. Without it, you spin in circles. Have you ever desperately wanted a job, relationship, or whatever it may be, but you had no strategy? Desire without direction is like stepping on the gas with no steering wheel. The reticular activating system, also known as RAs, filters what you notice. Define a goal and your brain literally starts spotting opportunities. For example, once you think of buying a red car, you see them everywhere. So here's the step. Each morning, write down three things you want to notice that day. Maybe new clients, learning opportunities, or ways to connect. Your RAs will tune in. This is so important if you have a goal to write a book, start a podcast, build a company, ask yourself, what is it that you need? I was talking to a friend the other day, and I'd said to him how important it was for him to show up to networking events. I said, if you're out at those events, you're going to meet people, people are going to see you. You're going to get to connect with them. He was avoiding it for months and months and months. He finally went to one, and he was shocked at what it felt like to be front of mind. When you're present, you get to have the conversations you would never get to if you weren't there. So many of us avoid the actual action, even though in our mind we're wondering, why is this business not taking off? Why is it not starting off? Because we're not positioning ourselves in the places that we need to be. Remember, you don't see things as they are. You see them through your own fears and hopes. You don't see yourself as you are. You see the story you keep repeating about who you are. You don't see the future as it is. You see the version you believe is possible. So many of us have the wish. We have the want. We have the desire. We don't have the direction, we don't have the drive. And where does that drive come from? Comes from picking something that you really value. I mean, everyone would want to be financially free. Everyone would want abundance. Those are things we all want. What does that look like for you? How does that manifest for you? When I say that, what I mean is, how do you envision that? How's it unique to you? And how are you going to get there? That's unique to you? If you connected with today's episode, check out my raw and honest talk with the one and only Cardi B. She opens up about overcoming depression and how she balanced rising to fame and creating a life for her children.

Tom Hughes

But you can tell me I'm.

Jay Shetty

I'm a bad mom. I'm a great mom.

Tom Hughes

If I'm good at something, it's being a mom.

Jay Shetty

M&M's popped caramel do sound different. Oh no. People are gonna be obsessed.

Professional Athlete

What do you mean?

Jay Shetty (Guest Speaker)

People hate the sound of chewing.

Tom Hughes

Maybe they won't like the crunch.

Professional Athlete

Maybe we're saved.

Jay Shetty

Wait a minute. Yellow. Have you been eating them this whole time?

Selena Gomez

Mmm.

Professional Athlete

So tasty.

Benny Blanco

Hands off us.

Professional Athlete

M&M's popped caramel. It's more fun together.

Jay Shetty

If you're a lineman in charge of keeping the lights on. Grainger understands that you go to great lengths and sometimes heights to ensure the power is always flowing. Which is why you can count on Grainger for professional grade products and next day delivery. So you have everything you need to get the job job done. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

Cal Penn

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the of the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Spiritual Teacher

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.