Jay Shetty

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Jay Shetty

I've been waiting for this since you interviewed me and made my life a living hell because I was like where is she going to take this conversation? Only Kiki could put me in these uncomfortable places.

Keke Palmer

Oh my gosh.

Jay Shetty

Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute and I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And, yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Keke Palmer. Welcome to On Purpose.

Keke Palmer

Jay, I'm so happy to talk to you, and I just know we're going to have such a great conversation. Like, I just love it.

Jay Shetty

Keke, I wanted to start with, like, you do so much. I just talked about it. Film, television, podcasting, music, businesswoman, entrepreneur, mother. When do you feel the most like, Lauren?

Keke Palmer

When I allow myself to have uncomfortable feelings.

Jay Shetty

Ah.

Keke Palmer

Because I think that that's what I've been working on getting back to, because being able to do all the stuff I do and, you know, on the road to success, I was trying so hard to just, you know, be the best and, you know, be in a good mood and be ready. And so the part that really got pushed down was, like, the human part, the one that just sometimes is sad and that doesn't feel very strong, that doesn't feel very capable. So when I'm. What I'm learning is the more that I honor the space for that, and when I tell people, like, hey, I could probably push it and do this, but I would rather not, that's. That's the part of me that has not gotten a lot of air.

Jay Shetty

Wow.

Keke Palmer

So I feel really good when I'm honoring the fact that I might have a larger capacity, but I. But it's okay if I can't give it out right now.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Does that part ever win or does it lose?

Keke Palmer

It's getting better now.

Jay Shetty

Okay.

Keke Palmer

Most of my life. Crazy. It's one. The part that just pushes through, that's been guiding everything to the point of being disembodied in moments. And I think the having my son brought me to a place of presence, as kids do, where I started to realize that maybe that disconnection was happening. And so now I'm more active in being like, it's okay if you don't have it. It's okay if you don't feel like. I had something I was supposed to do after this, but my day got pushed back, and I was late coming here, and I was like, oh, no. I said, I can't do it. You know, the old me would have still tried to push through. And I don't mean to say the old me, but part of me that was habitually thinking that what other people wanted was greater than what I needed for myself. That side of me is, you know, I'm aware of it now, and so I can say, like, look, I don't have it. And that makes me feel really, truly confident. And secure.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. And that's hard to do when you're winning.

Keke Palmer

Oh, my gosh.

Jay Shetty

It's hard to do when you're losing because you feel like you have to get going and you got to get started.

Keke Palmer

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Then it's hard to do when you're winning because you're like, oh, I got to keep this going.

Keke Palmer

The momentum.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

The momentum game that we play with ourselves. It can be tough. It can be tough. But it's so funny how it does that, because being good with yourself is actually what's going to make you better for those things. At least that I found. But we trick ourselves into thinking that by force is how we get everything.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

And there might be some truth to it. There's a time and a place for everything where it's like, I got to hustle. I got to hustle. But you got to be also like, let me not be so in the hustle that I don't feel. Feel when the frequency has changed and now is the time for rest.

Jay Shetty

Yes.

Keke Palmer

And so it's like, you know, sometimes we can step out of the alignment when we. When we so busy thinking that there's one way to get it done.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. No, so well said. And you mentioned there you talked about your son, who we got so much of in this adorable adp. So I was like, oh, my gosh, he's so cute.

Keke Palmer

I'm so obsessed with my son. It's too much.

Jay Shetty

He's just the best energy, too. Like, it just, like, flies off the screen. But I was thinking about that, and I wanted to ask you, like, what have you learned about yourself since becoming a mom that you feel you didn't know before?

Keke Palmer

Well, I do feel like my son reflects qualities in me that are the most human. Before we get into, like, our adaptive way as human beings do. We all do that. We adapt for the room, for who we're around, for what we want, and, you know, all those kinds of things. So I get to see a human before they become aware of how they relate to others can impact them or how others see them might impact them. So I've learned that I'm very demanding.

Jay Shetty

He's really demanding.

Keke Palmer

He's demanding. He has clear boundaries. But he's also really loving and he's polite, but he's like, what are you doing here? And I don't have time for that. And so watching him in his, like, truth, it has really given me so much courage.

Jay Shetty

So you're getting self awareness.

Keke Palmer

Like, look, I'm like, so that's what I was like before I decided that I cared about folks, you know what I mean? And so I love seeing those. And then like I said, the presence piece because kids make you be pre. You cannot be somewhere. I mean, you could, but it's like it's hard to go to that other place when you have this being in front of you that's looking and learning and again reflecting so much of you back that you. You start noticing space and time is starting to stretch in a way that it hasn't before. It's crazy. When you have one, you realize that what we've always said is true. Yeah, children are really the future. They're the most greatest gifts. They are so bright eyed and their spirit is so open and pure and it can't help but affect you.

Jay Shetty

This episode is presented by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves. Building better habits, showing up more fully, embracing mindfulness. But sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you. Go online@statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. What does he demand and what are the boundaries that he sets?

Keke Palmer

So his boundaries, he's really boundaried about, like touch. He's like, he wants his space. I need space.

Jay Shetty

Well, when you're trying to hug him.

Keke Palmer

When I'm trying to hug him, I try to kiss him. No more kisses. That's too. He'll tell me, how old is he? He's three. Oh, he'll be open to it. And then when it's like, it's my mommy. No more kissing. That's too much kissing. And I have. I say, okay, I understand. I respect that. You know, he'll be like. In terms of demanding, he'll be like, I want my Lachita. You know, like, I want my milk. He was like, I'm very hungry, I want food. Or he was like, absolutely not. Don't try to feed me anything. Like, he's really like, he will tell you, the more words that he has, the more things that he says. He'll say things like, I would like to watch Monster Truck. And he's a really good debater. Like a really good. Like, he'll try to pick around. So he'll be like, can I do this? And you'll be like, no, what about this? And he'd be like, okay, no, what about that? You'll say yes, okay. Phew. You know, he says, like, few. Very expressive. He's actually very animated. Don't know where he gets that from.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, I know. Who knows?

Keke Palmer

It's the cutest. So it's like. It's so funny to just see someone's personality developing. And as a mom, as a parent in general, you want to be able to guide them, but you don't want to stop them from discovering who they are in their own way. You don't want to be so much of a. Of a curator that you impede their ability to come into their own character. My son has such a great sense of power within self, and as much as I want him to be respectful and kind and all that kind of stuff, it's a constant balancing act, because I don't want him to lose his strength and his ability to, especially as a young man. I feel like he's getting to live my male dreams. So I want him to know that he has power and influence and obviously using it in the right way. And he's like, he's only three years old, but these are the things that you're thinking about already because you just. You want to just make sure you set them up correctly.

Jay Shetty

It sounds like you figured it out. It sounds like you got it down.

Keke Palmer

There's so many much more to come.

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Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

That potty training got me in a chokehold. Damn, it's hard.

Jay Shetty

It's like, walk me through it.

Keke Palmer

Well, you don't. They don't know the comfortability of the toilet. Like, for us adults, we could sit on the toilet for a long time on our phones. We could sit on the. You know, we. We have a different relationship to it as him. He has the relationship where I use the bathroom. This is on my body, my diaper. I get to keep doing what I'm doing. I never have to stop and go to the. Like, he doesn't get the whole stopping what you're doing and going to the bathroom and then sitting on the toilet. And the toilet being the place where it goes. So the conversation and the comfortability, you have to get him with. To understand, like, no, the toilet is safe. The toilet is comforting. The toilet is your space. Your bathroom is cool. You know, you get to have a private moment. And so it's just like getting that. Getting his mind wrapped around it. And it's. It's not easy. And I don't have the same parts as him. Like, he Looks at me and he's like, who chopped it off? And I'm like, you know, it's like, I'm like, I can't, you know, I'm not a guy. You know what I mean? So that is like, very funny.

Jay Shetty

You know, that's hilarious.

Keke Palmer

Somebody took hers away. I'm spooked.

Jay Shetty

Oh, my gosh. For three. That is a lot of personality. For three.

Keke Palmer

Oh, my gosh, such personality.

Jay Shetty

What have you learned about your parents after becoming a parent?

Keke Palmer

I've had my times of being very hard on my parents, especially like in my early 20s. Never as hard as that would have made me not hold space for them. Because we've always been really close. Even in our times where we weren't as close day to day talking or being around each other. When I was kind of being in my more like, I need to be independent bag, I still think I was always very like, I understand my parents. I hold space for them. You know what I mean? I have compassion for the things they did right and things they didn't do right. But I think that I understand it much more embodied now. Before I was trying to be on my Jay Shetty, I was just trying to be like, you know, I'm being mindful and I'm choosing the right path, but there's like doing that mentally and then there's like actually feeling it, really. And so I think I was saying that for a long time without actually feeling it. And I think having my son and obviously many things, you know, getting older, you know, allowed me to really understand from their perspective of what that challenge may have been like to just raise a child, let alone a child that's in the public eye that many people are around and influencing. And you're trying to keep a hold, but you want you. You're putting them here to have opportunity to become more. But then there's also this whole idea that you become not enough for their world or the assumed idea that you're not enough for their world. And so I just. I think that my parents have a lot of courage. I realized that they are really brave people and they're so. They. They also love me enough to be that courageous to actually open doors for me to flourish. Like, they pretty much were watching me go down the yellow brick road. And they had their ideas of what the wizard was, but they still held hope and faith for me. And I was able to come back and give them something too in the end of it all or as we continue to grow together in this new framework. But it was really. You know, they were. They're like my.

Jay Shetty

My.

Keke Palmer

You know, my scarecrow and Tin man and Cowardly lion, and, you know, we're two. We've been together on this journey, so to see how they've been able to have the strength to allow me to become. I can only hope to be that brave with my child.

Jay Shetty

Have you told them that?

Keke Palmer

No, my mom's heard it just now. I guess you prompted this question. I never have. Have articulated it or said it, because I never really had the opportunity to. But, yeah, that's how I feel. I think that she's really brave and. And my dad brave, and I'm really grateful that they weren't afraid to let me be me.

Jay Shetty

Wow. I could tell it you. You're like. You're, like, really living in it for a second.

Keke Palmer

Yeah, I am. You know, it takes so much time for, I think, the things that we tell ourselves to hit us. And I think I spent a lot of time, especially in my early. My late teens, early 20s, really getting into, like, the concepts around mindfulness. I learned watching YouTube videos online that the only thing that separated me from the people that I admired was they thought differently. And so I focused on, like, what do people that are successful do? What did they put into their mind? How do they talk to themselves? And so I started, like, practicing those things. You know, going to a trip to Sedona, you know, having somebody beat on my chest with Reiki at 19, you know, going on this excursion where I'm in silence. You know, I try to put those things in my life, but it didn't really hit me.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

You know, I was just, like, doing them, and I was believing. I remember one of my favorite quotes, I got it tattooed is Aristotle. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then isn't an act, but a habit. And that's how it started. Started as an act, not a fake one, but me just trying to figure out how to get to this place where it feels real. And then when you arrive there, it's like. It's. I remember talking to Raven Simone, and she was like, 30s are the. Are the. Is the decade of revelations, like, and obviously, obviously, Jesus. You know, I mean, it's not unique, but it's like, when she put it like that, it was like, okay. And then, as I've been in my decade of the 30s, there have been so many revelations that it's like, what is coming next? And this year, I turned 33, so it's like, what is about to happen? You know what I mean? Come on, Jesus Year. You know, what is about to be reborn. You know what's going to happen. And it's been remarkable, man, because the seeds that I sowed, even though I didn't know when it was gonna really hit me, when it was gonna really feel true, I still planted those seeds. I really did. And I watered them sometimes every day, sometimes once a month, sometimes every couple of weeks, you know, and then I come back and I do it more consistently, but I kept watering and watering and watering, and I. Now I'm seeing the growth from those seeds that I sold or that I planted, you know?

Jay Shetty

Yeah. What. What even took you on that journey? Why did you want to pursue the path of understanding your thoughts and mindfulness and even going on that silent journey? Like, I get that that wasn't even your path, but why did you even want to go on that path? What were you looking for? What was. What was life like that you were asking those bigger questions?

Keke Palmer

So I think what started me to get into these kinds of conversations was deep depression. I suffered from, like, a lot of depression and anxiety, a lot of fainting spells and panic attacks and stuff like that. Like, I would go sometimes and, like, my period would disappear because I would be so stressed. And this started when I was, like, 12. And I would always journal my journals. I think one of my earliest rituals and practices. Brandi gave me my first journal. She said, you're gonna need. And she was really right because it really allowed for me to get a lot of things out. I think it saved my life in a lot of ways. Being able to come back to myself and remember who I am while dealing with so much of my responsibilities and just the projections of being in front of the camera. And so I would journal a lot, and I just started to really understand that I was dealing with stuff. And this is why I have such a. I really do love the Internet and technology in a lot of ways, because it saved me. I remember I started searching up words and searching up feelings and the way that I felt about certain things. Things. And then different philosophers will come up, you know, or different people that would say certain things. I would put in a word on this website called thinkexist.com and I found out words about stress. Then I found about that what I was feeling was anxiety. And these are, like, were small things to me, you know, in my. My mind now. I know them very regularly in my dialogue. But at the beginning, I didn't know any of those things. I thought something was wrong with me. And then I started to realize that these were concepts and things that people have been talking about for thousands of years. Like the fact that I was asking these questions, it wasn't actually crazy. It was kind of cor. You know what I mean? And I should continue to ask these questions. And so that's when I started to realize that there was other stuff out there and that how I was feeling. Even if it wasn't something that was common in my industry or something that we were talking about in entertainment, there was a space for it. And so through that, you obviously learned about Buddha and you learn about like all these different concepts of, you know, monks and people going on retreats and the concept of all this type of stuff. You know, I started this looking at that when I was probably like, like 14, 15. And then by the time that I was 18, 19, I was like, I want to see these and have these experiences for myself because my identity was constantly being broken down and attacked. After I was 17, my TV show True Jackson VP went off of the air. It was like I would liken it to a 60 year old man retiring or being removed from his top position as CEO at 17. That's how I felt. I felt like I was having a midlife crisis. Like it was like, whoa, like the money is different. My ability to help my family is different. You know, I don't know who I am as an adult, let alone as an entertainer as now a grown woman. So it was like there was a lot happening and I knew that if I was gonna survive it that I was gonna have to get my mind right. I just knew that my. And I would watch videos of like Will Smith, Will Smith at this time too would always be talking about this kind of thing.

Jay Shetty

Those old interviews are like, yeah, they're insane.

Keke Palmer

He was always, get your mind right, get your mind right. And so it's like I was, I was like, I want to be like, well, you know, I want to be able to be iRobot. I want to be able to be the, the hero of my life. And I took it to heart, man. I took it so to heart. And so I started getting physical. I started. I remember I got a trainer when I was like 18, 19. I was like, I was on the Will Smith program, you know what I mean? I was getting my mom, I was on that therapy, getting my body right, getting my mind right. And it just became a part of the things I was into. It became a part of my hobbies, it became a part personality. It was like doing my work and my job and Then trying to be on some, you know, wellness nourishment kick. And my family was like, okay, this is crazy, you know, but that's who I've been in my family, you know, and that's became a part of my life. And. And so, yeah, and from then, that just kept being something that I always was chipping away at, caring about, investing in, you know.

Jay Shetty

That's incredible. I didn't know that. I love, for everyone who's listening to know that, like, how much would you dedicate and say because of that work I did when I was 18, when I was coming out of a dark period, when I went through this midlife crisis at 17 years old and I refocused myself. How much of your success today would you owe to that part?

Keke Palmer

I mean, I don't wanna be dramatic, but I would probably say everything. And I would say not just the success of me as an entertainer, the success of me surviving being an entertainer. I remember watching the Eddie Murphy documentary, and Dave Chappelle said, not only is Eddie Murphy successful, but he survived being Eddie Murphy. Being a successful person, it's a great accomplishment, but it comes with a lot of things. It comes with a lot of stuff, you know, on the road to success is tough. I think you said something similar to this earlier. On the road to success is tough because it's tough. And then when you get there, the concept of sustaining it, what does it look like to evolve it? How does it look like to deal with what people expect from you because you are so successful? So, yeah, I think that be, you know, people say, oh, you a childhood child, you know, that survived and all this kind of stuff. Like, those are the practices that have helped me, you know, and when I started my company, Key TV Network, that was focused on helping you with your business, your brand, creating the practice of being able to actually do stuff. I could not leave out an opportunity to build something else. Practice by Palmer, which is, these are the practices that helped me be able to be the person that I am in business. You have to be good in your mind. You have to know who you are. And there's no way to stay in touch with who you are in this world without having some type of forms of rituals, you know what I mean? That's why a lot of people like, oh, I'm not religious or I'm not at the base level. It's a ritual. It's something that you can go to, you know what I'm saying? Even though I grew up Catholic, I have not been consistently to a Catholic church in years. But those rituals, Lord, not lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. You know, it grounds you. It's a conversation at the baseline of what it is. If you take away anything that you think about religion, it's a conversation with yourself, It's a conversation with the universe. Hey, you know, this is what's on my mind. You need to get that stuff out. That's how we know what's going on inside us. The journaling, spending moments of silence and seeing what comes up into your mind. And, you know, it don't have to be quiet. I remember when somebody first told me that mindfulness isn't just. Just your mind being quiet, it's actually you watching your mind be not quiet. And actually just sitting back and being like, now that was interesting. I'mma let you rock. You know what I mean? Like. Like being in that space. Like, so for me, it's like, that is so important to go side by side. To me, you are not a successful person if you can't be with yourself, if you can't know who you are outside of your achievements. And I just. I really was afraid of. I didn't want to be lost. And I think it was also scary, the feeling of having all so many things stripped from me at that age. I saw like, I've got to always be okay if the money not there, if the projects ain't there, if the people don't care, I gotta be okay. Because this could take me for a tailspin, you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty

If you ever open up a church, I'm there. I'm telling you right now. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna come to your monastery. I've been going to the wrong thing. This is like, I'm like, I'm in church right now. This is amazing.

Keke Palmer

Come on, Fraser.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, no, but it's. As I'm listening to you, I'm like, wow, it's so fascinating hearing someone. What I love about this is I feel like everyone at their point in life comes to recognize the value of this work, whatever you call it, whether it's religion, spirituality, therapy, coaching work, the work everyone comes to in their own way. And when I hear people's stories about how they found it, it's never the same. It's totally unique. It's also someone from such a different background and walk of life. Like, I found it at the same age as you did, but I found it in a completely different way, and it was a completely different whirlwind. And experience that I was having, but the fact that we both have so many things in common, even though we come from totally different.

Keke Palmer

Well, I really related to your story when we talked on the show. Even though I didn't go necessarily specifically in that path. I still have, you know, done entertainment work. I love it that much that I could see that for myself. So I'm like, I love your life because it's like you get to do that every single. You get to talk about stuff that I think is so meaningful. I mean, I'm not trying to say entertainment's not meaningful because everything plays a part. Sometimes you want to lose yourself in a project. Sometimes storytelling is the only way you can understand something. So those things are absolutely useful. But what I love is just the opportunity to also bring it back to the attention to that. Because as human beings, it's really scary. Just don't think we talk about it enough. We don't know why we're here. We don't. We don't know if we're like a cell microbiome in some big giant's life that lives on another planet. Like we don't know.

Jay Shetty

Some sort of experiment.

Commercial Voice

Right.

Jay Shetty

You know what I mean? We don't.

Keke Palmer

These are the things that go into your mind. And obviously there are ways that there are things that people do believe about that, but at the base baseline of it is it can feel really lonely, it can feel really scary. You don't know if you should try to achieve something and be quote, unquote successful or just be over there in a village by a lake with your family and do nothing and just appreciate the opportunity of being. All of us are trying to figure it out. And so I love when we can talk about that because it's like that's the real stuff. That's. That's the stuff that sometimes can drive you crazy or make you a narcissist, as they say, because you just want to feel like you matter. You know, at the core of that is just I wanna matter. I wanna know that I mattered and that my life meant something. And that's something that any of us can relate to. So it brings me great joy cuz it's always in my mind.

Jay Shetty

Did you find that a lot of the people around you as you were coming up as a child star were struggling with that as well?

Keke Palmer

Yes. Most of them were turning to different things to help them. And I felt like my parents were overprotective of me then I felt very alone and I felt like all I had was my journal and that I didn't have anybody that I could talk to. And I had one friend who just. Who passed away named Brandon. Yeah, he was my first boyfriend, and

Jay Shetty

we passed away recently.

Keke Palmer

He passed away recently. Sickle cell anemia. Only 34 years old, so.

Jay Shetty

So too.

Keke Palmer

And he was my friend that I would talk to a lot. And I had my friend Taylor Parks. Like, I had very few friends that I didn't get to see often. And my journal, you know what I mean? Thanks to MySpace, I was able to talk to them. Tom, I'll always love you. I will always love you. Okay, so it was very. You know, I had a couple of people, but. But I felt very alone dealing with things that I. And I didn't have anybody to relate to because I didn't have a lot of friends in the industry. The ones that were, were. It wasn't the same. You know what I mean? Gravity. And a lot of kids my age, I could see now, like, when I had conversations with people like Demi, I wish that I did talk to them. I think I also felt very isolated, being a lot of times the only black. And my experience with being the only black in my school back in Illinois was like, stay in your lane, girl. You know what I mean? And so I. I was obviously the star of my own show. And I never was, like, putting my head down, but I kind of was like, I don't know if I'm really. What we really talking about. Like, I really didn't know. So I was just like, showed up. Hey, we polite, we talk, but we weren't really necessarily getting into it because we didn't have the language that we have now. There was no words for microaggressions. There was no words for, you know, what that felt like, any of those nuances. And so. But when I see. Now I see that we all really was dealing with a lot of different, you know, in our own way, but a lot of the same things. And I wish that we all could have talked, but there was no space for that, you know, So a lot of times, you know, people were. Sex or drugs or whatever it might have been for them to be able to cope. And honestly, for me, I was a really an Internet kid. I went to the Internet and I still be on there. You know what I mean? You know, so it's like I was the kid that was.

Jay Shetty

You found the good side of the Internet, though, man.

Keke Palmer

It was. I mean, we had some time, you know, those early days with the wild, Wild West, But I really do feel grateful to have experienced my experience space. I really found some really genuine you.

Jay Shetty

You're giving some big shout outs to my.

Keke Palmer

Honestly. Cuz it was the place where I just, I just was coding, you know what I mean? I was meeting friends and learning about the space. I was having so much fun being able to express myself in my small corner. And it was private, right? Because this is before Twitter. This is before, you know, entertainers being online. This is like back in the day, me and any of the friends that I had or, or I should say peers, colleagues that I had on Disney and Nickelodeon, we had had private pages. Like our names would be like Fanny, Fanny, Toot, Toot. You know what I mean? Cause we're like trying to be like all incognito, you know what I mean? So it was like before all that time and it was the one place that I felt like I could express. So that was a saving grace for me.

Jay Shetty

What's it like now? What are the rituals now?

Keke Palmer

I thought you about to stay with the Internet.

Jay Shetty

Oh no, we'll go there later maybe. Maybe. We'll see. All right, go ahead. Actually, let's go back a step. When you were 18 and you're looking forward to. And you're like, God, I gotta learn all these things and I've got to learn the mindset. And I'm watching the Will Smith video and whatever else it may be, did you ever think you would find the answer or did you feel scared that you may never know?

Keke Palmer

I actually did believe. I really did believe. I didn't know when though, so I had to really have a lot of patience. But I did believe. I believe that if I keep. Why, why would that not happen if I don't. If I keep chipping away, it's like that picture that goes viral every two years where the guy's like chipping away and he turns around and he was already. He was just there. I believe that, like, there's no way if I keep chipping away, that I won't get to wherever I'm trying to be. I really, truly believe that. And so even though it will be hard in times, and then you see small, small things, like things that, that stuck. You know what I mean? Like things that were like, oh, I went from working out every now and then to now it's a part of my every single day. Or, you know, I went to, you know, only going for a walk X amount of times a year. Now I'm doing them X, you know, I'm doing Thousand step, you know, whatever it is. I Started to see those changes, but is. I think a lot of times you think you're gonna have a new mind, but my mind is actually just so much more compassionate. The new mind was compassion for myself to be able to grow. Like, I realized that it was not like a new person that I would be, but that it would be like it would just be a version of me that supports the person I've always been. You know what I mean? And giving myself a safer place to land and being okay when things don't go right and knowing that I can get right back up again instead of thinking that, oh, I messed up on Monday, I guess I don't get another chance till Friday. It's like, why that be the case? You still have the opportunity in the next couple of hours even to decide to have a better mood. So I think that's the cool thing that I've discovered. When I think about me and my, you know, 18 and those early teen years of getting into awareness of myself with intention, it's like, wow. Like, I didn't become a new person. I just started being nicer and more loving and supportive of the person that I've always been. And because of that, I bloomed. You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty

That is so good. That is so good. No, because I think that's. We constantly convince ourselves that you're going to become a new person, that you've got to become a new version of yourself. And you're so right that it's actually just seeing the version that already is there.

Commercial Voice

Yes.

Jay Shetty

That exists, that lives, that breathes, that has all the skills, the potential, the. The tools, the mindset and. And being present for that version and being compassionate. Because if you're always telling yourself you have to be someone else to be

Keke Palmer

successful, well, that just sucks. You're just being so mean to you. You know, Brene Brown speaks a lot about that kind of thing with the shame piece. And it's so interesting how that can show up in your life. And you just. You. You don't think that that's what you're doing, but you are. I think I used to feel so much shame or guilt around my large capacity, so I would constantly outsource it. And then I'd be so sad when I got nothing back because it was like that. The capacity, that abundance, it actually should be inward, and I shouldn't feel guilty that I can pull myself up or, you know, decide to go out there for my goals or, you know, instead of always feeling like it's my job to make Other people feel great about themselves because they. They don't have that energy. Well, what would happen if I, you know, I gave that when I could and when I felt like doing it, but I gave it back to myself.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

And it's like, damn, Yeah. I needed this. And when. Now I see how I feel when I'm actually giving what I've been giving out to me.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Yeah.

Keke Palmer

You know, and we feel.

Jay Shetty

Feels selfish when you fast it.

Keke Palmer

You do.

Jay Shetty

Right.

Keke Palmer

And I don't. It's a guilt. It's a shame. It's a shame around seeing something, having insight around something, feeling something, knowing something for whatever reason. I don't know what that is. But as human beings, the moment that we feel that we have a lot, it's just so weird. I don't know what that does, but, you know. Yeah, I feel that. That. That I've had to deal with that. That I felt shame since I was a little kid being able to be happy even, you know, and those are like priceless things. But I think I felt guilt about it. That I was able to be so happy. Even when we was living in poverty and nothing was good was going on. I felt like I could find a reason to have joy. I could get out on the floor and dance and be. You know, I always felt like that that was like a superpower for me. And I felt like, oh, guilty about that. Cause everybody else can't be happy. Now it's my job to make everybody. You know, and it's like, that's different. It's a different feeling of giving because you want to and then giving because you feel that people need you to.

Jay Shetty

Yes.

Keke Palmer

And you're like guilty giving from a place of guilt and shame for having joy as opposed. You know, that can really distort the gift.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. When you feel you're responsible for other people's emotions, that just sends you down the wrong path. Whereas when you feel you're on your path and you can overflow and give people the love that they deserve and need, that's a totally different thing. And it's such a fine line.

Keke Palmer

Yes, it is.

Jay Shetty

For people with big capacity.

Keke Palmer

Especially because sometimes just your presence is.

Jay Shetty

I can relate to everything you're saying right now, you know, because you get.

Keke Palmer

And that's your work. And that's just so cool. I remember one time I was talking to. And I'm sure I would.

Jay Shetty

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Keke Palmer

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

Commercial Voice

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Keke Palmer

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Great price.

Keke Palmer

I even have seven days to love it or return it.

Jay Shetty

So there's no.

Keke Palmer

No, no Buyer's Remorse. More like buyers rejoice.

Jay Shetty

I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it.

Commercial Voice

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Jay Shetty

Choice.

Keke Palmer

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Keke Palmer

My name is Paul Brunson. More couples. This could be the start of a very successful marriage. And more surprises. Or maybe not everything is just not enough. You're a little bit crazy. I don't know what's gonna happen. I want my fairytale ending. Married at First Sight now streaming new episodes Thursdays only on Peacock.

Jay Shetty

What if I told you you only have 12 hours to legally have sex?

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Keke Palmer

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Jay Shetty

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Keke Palmer

This whole thing is nuts.

Jay Shetty

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Keke Palmer

I'm Owen.

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Jay Shetty

What about you and me? Monica Barbaro. Callum Turner. I've been told I'm a seventh.

Commercial Voice

By who? Your mom?

Keke Palmer

No, she thinks I'm retired.

Jay Shetty

One night only. Rated R only in theaters August 7th.

Keke Palmer

I'd love to hear if you have a version of this. One of my teachers, one of the people first that were mentoring me on this pass, was a makeup artist. And she introduced me to another kind of master yogi type of person. But I could only call him at a certain amount of time. He was only Available till a certain amount of time. And if you didn't catch him, you didn't catch him. And you also cannot call him after this time.

Jay Shetty

Wow.

Keke Palmer

And so I would talk to this man every now and then. One time, I called this man at literally, like, the time was like, 8:00pm I called this man at 8:01. He answered the phone. Why would you call me? Why would you call me? It sounded almost like we was in Beyond Belief Factor fiction, and he was gonna disappear after this. Like, it was, like, so urgent. He was like, why would you call me? Why would you call me? And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have never been able to contact that man again. No, I have never been able to reach him again. Never have been able to. It's, like, gone. It's, like, gone in the wind. Like, it's like he's gone. You know what I mean? And I say that to say, like, I really respected that he had clear boundaries. He had a large capacity. Millions of people probably called that man every day to tell him about something, to talk to him about a new path. But he had very clear boundaries to the point where he said, you didn't feel following. You can't be involved. Because I have a lot to give, and I have to protect it so that I can keep giving it to its full capacity. So that made me think with you. I'm sure that you have so many friends that's calling you, that's telling you. Do you have something that you try to let them know? Like, I'm not open for business with this right now. You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty

Well, I have a rule that I don't give friends advice because I just want to be a friend.

Keke Palmer

Well, guess what? We're not friends.

Jay Shetty

We're not friends. All right. We're not friends.

Keke Palmer

And call you.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, he said, you can call me. Yeah, we're not friends. Because I used to feel like when we'd be just hanging out and someone's talking about their problems, I don't like giving unsolicited advice. That's first of all. Like, no one needs unsolicited advice. So that's first of all. I don't give that. But what I didn't like was, like, friends would be just talking about their problems. I'm like, oh, Jay, tell us what to do, and then no one's gonna follow up and listen to it because they're your friend.

Keke Palmer

Exactly.

Jay Shetty

So they're not gonna take it seriously either. So I'm like, look, I'm just gonna hang. We're just gonna, you know, talk about soccer or something. Talk about the basketball. Like, let's just be friends and, and it's safer that way. And then when someone's coming to you, asking you for advice, truly locking in, truly saying, hey, I'm taking this really seriously. I'm not asking the group chat. I'm coming to you because I want your help and support. I'm locked in. I'm there to help, of course. But that was my boundary setting where it was like, if we're committed to each other that you want to do the work and I'm going to help you, then I'm in. But if we're just giving free advice and hanging out, that's not going to help anyone because we're all going to feel spent. But I mean, I should do the 801 thing. That's what I hear. That's what I should do.

Keke Palmer

I was trying to get back to him for years. He was like, like, you're done. But it's so important because I feel like we find ourselves doing that too. Like, I can at least say for myself where it's like when I take a step back, like, everything that I was trying to tell others or support others on, even if they ask, even if they. We were just having a conversation and I accidentally spilled extra over, those were things that I needed. And so I've really been in a season of restraint. Even if somebody asks me, I'm not telling them what to do or tell them. I'm just being a listening ear and allowing my presence to at least just be a bouncing board. Which is so funny because that's what we always say a good thing therapist is anyway. Like, you know what I mean? A good, A good person that you actually are going to for help generally pushes you toward the answers that you have yourself.

Jay Shetty

Yes.

Keke Palmer

So it's so funny how you can be thinking that, you know, it's. It's your job, it's your duty, and it's like, actually your best thing is to just be there to listen and to reflect. And so in my season of restraint, I feel like a. I'm getting so much of the things that I thought that other people needed from me. I'm actually realizing how much better off I am by having my relationships reflect information to me. And instead of thinking, I'm supposed to share it, but actually, like leaning into the intuition myself, seeing what reality reveals to me, and then also taking what I learn or what I'm seeing reflected in the relationship. And actually turning it back into myself and say, well, what's my relationship to this? If I think that that's what's happening with this person, is that showing up in my life instead of thinking I'm supposed to tell the person something?

Jay Shetty

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We feel better when other people are doing worse.

Keke Palmer

And obligated. And obligated in some way to be like, by the way. Yeah, a Virgo is good for some by the way ass shit.

Jay Shetty

I'm a Virgo. I do it.

Keke Palmer

I'm a Virgo. We can be really. If we're not healed, we can be actually.

Jay Shetty

Well, what's your birthday?

Keke Palmer

August 26th.

Jay Shetty

Oh, I'm 6th of September. That's crazy.

Keke Palmer

We can literally, by the way. Yeah, it's okay.

Jay Shetty

I had to really control that. I had to rein it in. Me too.

Keke Palmer

By the way, Erin. Aries, you're not. You're not free.

Jay Shetty

Oh, really? Why are you calling out Aries?

Keke Palmer

Aries love to be like, actually,

Jay Shetty

what's. Leah.

Keke Palmer

Leo is a Leo rising. A Taurus moon and a Pisces sun. And he's not an actually person. He's actually like, actually your ass. Leo is like T and Tamara. I got my own mind. I do my own style at my own time. He is so unbothered.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

Oh, my gosh. Well, they say, say Pisces are perfect opposites of Virgos.

Jay Shetty

Oh, interesting. My sister's a Pisces.

Keke Palmer

Very. Let it flow. Very. Let it go. Very. My son is so present and so like, he cool, you know?

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

Who gave you these blue eyes? They are remarkable.

Jay Shetty

Complete anomaly in my family. No one has them.

Keke Palmer

They're just awesome.

Jay Shetty

No one has them. I got really lucky. I grew up with jokes about how my mom had an affair with the milkman, so. Oh my gosh.

Keke Palmer

It's giving Pitbull. Pitbull got the ball.

Jay Shetty

Does he? Does he? Yeah, he got P. I didn't notice them on Pitbull. Oh, that's so cool. Mr. Worldwide. I never knew that. Wow, that's funny. Yeah. No. Complete anomaly. You're so. Like, when you walk into a room, you are such a force.

Keke Palmer

Oh my God.

Jay Shetty

You're just such an energy, a spark. Like whether it's a big room, a small room like this, whatever it is. How would Lauren walk into a room?

Keke Palmer

Well, she would probably walk in and not feel like she had to make people feel comfortable about it. See, I think that I always knew that I. That that the energy existed, but because it would make people feel Some type of way. And I learned this very early on when I started going to private school, because the teachers were like, stay in your lane. The energy was clear that for whatever reason, however I was perceived on the outside, the power that I had within was not allowed. And so I just. I learned not to silence the power, but to make it more palatable and make it a little bit easier for you to get into. And that's when my. That. That's when those skills sets, you know, of me being able to regulate a space or be able to translate who I am, whether through code switching or charm or whatever it could be called. That was me trying to create safety for myself. And it was the best way that I knew how to create safety. And then there are things that they are part of me, you know, they're who I am. But now I don't always feel like, you know, or. Or I'm at least better about where I choose to go if a place requires me to do that, to be safe. Because ultimately, that's where it came from. It came from a place of feeling unsafe, showing up, being seen as powerful, being felt as powerful, power that I didn't even know that I had, and trying to figure out how to make sure that it was, hands up, don't shoot, basically, you know what I'm saying, As a young black person and as a young black woman. And so I. It was just me managing the fear that that would put into others.

Jay Shetty

Did you have experiences like that that felt very, very unsafe?

Keke Palmer

Oh, my gosh, yes. All the time. You know what I mean? Whether it was with, you know, misogyny and then also racially, when people feel like you are challenging the status quo in some regard. Also, I saw it in history. I remember having a conversation with somebody, you know, and I was thinking about, like, Martin Luther King, you know what I mean? And it was like, that's a fear that black people really, genuinely feel. Anybody that is of a person of color or dealing or from a particular group that decides to stand up, a lot of times they've been murdered. You know, they've been attacked. Caring about my community, being passionate. You can't be Michael from Good Times and actually live long, long. That's what you've seen the pattern to be. And so, yeah, very young, knowing that I had impact doing movies like Aquila and the Be my Community, saying, we got. Became kind of afraid at a certain age where it's like, I don't want nobody to take my ass out. You know what I'm Saying, I want nobody to be afraid of me, you know, or think I'm going to do you know what I mean? And I remember after I did one of the marchings that we were dealing with, and I say one of the marchings because there's so many that it gets to the point where it's like, you know, right after George Floyd died, I was like. I just. Something had came over me, and I was. I had a moment with the National Guard that people filmed, and I remember being really, really scared. But I think that that marked, like, a moment in my life where I maybe was trying to come out of that fear because I was spooked that, like, I remember calling my mom, like, they're probably going to get me for this, or I'm going to be. I was really spooked that people were going to get me for just standing up for my community in this way. And it was really scary to me. But something had just come over me in that moment. And it was. It was during COVID and everything was so. And I felt just so. Like, I just was like, I just can't believe this. You know, I was just so unhappy and just so. But I didn't want that to make me silent. And then I just. It was just so much feelings and that I had to do that. And then I. But I was a little bit scared. But I feel like it was the marking of me kind of shedding some of that fear and also, like, being able to understand and articulate some of these things. But you're constantly trying to figure out how to manage these things. You know what I mean? From whoever you are, whatever background or whatever you believe in, you know, we're all dealing with some challenges. And I remember I would have these experiences, like going to Harvard, and the Harvard would be doing a thing on me, and they would be talking to me about power, and I would be trying to figure out, like, why am I the case study, you know? So it took me many years to understand what I was holding, how it was affecting people, and why it was such a thing that I had to manage all the time. And then to be at peace with that.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. It's amazing how we develop all these skills and tools in order to feel safe, and then they become the very things that make us feel unsafe. Safe, because we get so disconnected from who we are deep down. It's so fascinating, isn't it?

Keke Palmer

You ate that. You ate that. It's like our protective tool became too good.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, it's like how your protective tool Suffocates you, which is like a, A fascinating idea when you think about it. And we all do that as kids. For me, like watching my parents argue, watching my parents behave in the way they did. I was picking up cues and I can, I can walk into a room and I know every energy, energetic field that is going on in a room, in any room. I can listen to each corner. I know what's happening over there, and I can be fully present over here because I had to, I didn't have a choice. And I love that skill. Yeah, I love that skill. I love that tool. And at the same time, it can take away from being able to flow and have human experience. And so you have to be aware of it. So you almost have to be aware of the tools that you built to protect and make sure they don't suffocate you. What have you done to create those spaces where these incredible tools you have.

Keke Palmer

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty

That you use so wisely. You've learned how to be really effective with them and at the same time, they are true to you. They're not, they're not inauthentic. But then how have you allowed yourself to put the sword and shield down sometimes and breathe? Like, what does that look like?

Keke Palmer

Well, I think when I did my TED Talk, that was a big moment reclamation. Thank you so much.

Jay Shetty

I want to, I want you to know my whole team wants to. And everyone was like raving about it. So just so you know.

Keke Palmer

Thank you so much. That was a big moment of reclamation for me. Me, parasocially, I think in my personal life, you know, like I said, my practices holding space for myself over time have allowed me to let those things have those moments of breath, you know. But parasocially, that was an opportunity to really also speak to my audience about that differentiation. My nuance outside of just being fun and joyful and energetic is I have feelings. I'm a human being. I've had my experience in this and, and being coming. This has been. Has cost me a lot of things. And my nervous system is readjusting from all these experiences that I've had and that it's okay to be nuanced and complex and that I don't wanna be the poster child for hyper functioning if it doesn't sit alongside this truth. That was like a big, big moment for me in my life. Now it's. Everything is integrated because it was always fragmented from my private life and my professional life. And so that was a big moment of integration in a major way. Again, being Able to speak the truth. Being able to speak truth to power. That is the greatest liberator of that voice that's inside that had to rest is to actually speak truth on the things that I experience and what it cost me and how I had to learn this stuff and that adaptive intelligence and what performance is and what is authenticity that lives inside of that. Like, these are conversations that I felt like I wasn't allowed to have or I couldn't have. And a lot of times in the early days, people didn't want to have. Don't nobody care give a damn about. About this. You know, they didn't want to. You had to just be ready to go and be jab like, you know what I. You want to be just, hey, it's too much. So it's like, if you talk, if I can have the conversation, then I can have the conversation. So I'll also say time. And that's why I've taken care of yourself. I'm so happy that I did those things so that when the world also was arriving at these times that I could share the. That this. I could share this truth because people could be open and ready to hear it. And so I felt like that was also true for my generation. How I came up in this industry and what, you know, what it took for me to get here was like, also waiting for spaces like this to exist. I feel like, you know, I mean, obviously podcasting exists back then, but it was called talk radio.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. And you weren't having conversations like this.

Keke Palmer

Right. You know, also, we've all caught up to our period, so it's like a collective shift that has gone on that I get to be a part of.

Jay Shetty

No, for sure. And you were ahead of it. You were doing it when it wasn't trendy. So now that it's kind of come into vogue.

Keke Palmer

Yeah. Which is crazy.

Jay Shetty

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Health AI. We've got to talk about those panicked Internet searches. You know the ones that I'm talking about, when something about your body just doesn't seem right. So you search and search and scroll and scroll and trying to figure out your body by endlessly looking for answers. Thankfully, now there's Amazon Health AI. It can connect your symptoms with your medical history, and it can even get you care 24 7. So call off the search. Amazon Health AI is here. Healthcare just got less painful. When you were talking about your childhood, I remember having what now I know are panic attacks or anxiety attacks. And I'd go to the doctor, the Doctor would wire me up with this, like, crazy technology, checking my heart rate, checking my heartbeats. And then 24 hours, I'd have to wear it at school. It would look really weird. And then the next day, I'd go back and be like, there's nothing wrong with him. And I'm like, mom, there's something wrong with me. Like, I'm. I'm having an experience, and we just didn't have language for it. And so what you're saying about language is huge, but vocabulary, emotional vocabulary, is just so huge. And I feel like people being exposed to ideas and words is so important.

Keke Palmer

I mean, I didn't even realize that how the recursive, like, kind of like, boom. That is when I was thinking about the fact that I did Akeelah and the Bee, this movie, that again, it's inspiring in many different ways. But for me, it became re inspiring because it's like, yes, a little girl having language to express how she. She feels. That's crazy.

Commercial Voice

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

That is powerful. Because words, once you can put words in it, I mean, we can get all into Lacan that words have different meanings for other people. Like, you know, yes, of course, love doesn't mean the same to me as it means to you. But if we're, generally speaking, having the words to define and articulate how you feel with precision is, without a doubt, liberating. And that's why the TED Talk experience was so major for me, because it was a moment that I had to sit down, actually write, and I'm going tell you something that was crazy, too, with this whole TED Talk thing. So I was getting ready to film a movie right in the middle of when I'm getting ready to do the TED Talk and have the TED Experience. And I was fine with it. I was like, I'll go in, just do my. My talk that one day I won't get to do the whole ted, but I'll get to do my talk that one day that'll be fine. In the midst of me, you know, preparing for my talk, we're preparing for the movie. And they're, they're, they're chipping away at a lot of stuff. Like the movie was supposed to be a certain amount of days. Now it's damn near two days. Not literally, but you know what I mean? It ain't a long time. The movie was supposed to be this much. They doing with it now it's crunched this much. Okay, that's going to make things harder for us as well. You know, all these little Things started to happen that started making me feel really just not happy and uncomfortable. You know, in. In the midst of that, they were also chopping down my TED days. So originally I was going to have all my TED days and be able to have the experience. But then suddenly that stopped. Going from that to me just having the one day and I was still like, all right, fine. Then they call and they say again, and pretty much they going to take away the T. And I did something that I've never done before, which I am still so proud of myself doing this. I said, I'm not doing the movie.

Jay Shetty

Wow.

Keke Palmer

I'm not doing the movie. I'm done. Cause by the way, I already didn't want to do the movie. The truth of the matter is, I was already doing the same shit that I'm talking about doing in this speech that I ain't doing, gonna do no more. I don't feel good. It doesn't make me happy. I'm not going to enjoy this. This is requiring me to chop off pieces of myself that matter to me. Man. When I tell you that I said no to that movie and I felt so liberated and had my experience with my TED conference and had my talk and was able to feel truly embodied in that moment and to know that I was actually making choices that really were real for the person that. The true full person that I am. That was a moment. Moment. I'm so proud of myself.

Jay Shetty

I'm proud of you. That's amazing.

Keke Palmer

I'm so proud of myself.

Jay Shetty

Those. Those are the hardest moments, though, when

Keke Palmer

you're put to the test.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're up there saying the thing, and then you almost have to live it. I've. I've had many of those moments, and those are the hardest because you can tell whether you're in alignment or you're misaligned.

Keke Palmer

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Because you're like, I'm saying this thing over here, but.

Keke Palmer

And it's so crazy because then to get the feedback that I had gotten on my TED Talk, I. Look, I just. Like, God is just so real to me, you know, because it's like, God will show you. Life will show you. And it's not about. About, like, just data and insights. It's about impact. It's about the fact that somebody comes up to me and they say, girl, I feel the same way. And this is what I've been experiencing with my family. Like, I love doing movies and I love performance and I love all that type of stuff, but you can't take these if Something is going to take moments like that away from me. True connection like that for me, then it ain't right. I know that it ain't right. If it doesn't feel good, if I'm not liberated and excited about it, then it can't be. It can't be correct for me. Can't be. And so that really was a big moment for me this year. It really was.

Commercial Voice

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

At the beginning, you kind of can cut corners. You. You're trying to figure your way, right? Like you, you, you. Not everything's going to be fully aligned when you start. You have to do certain things, you have to compromise. But then when you get to a certain point, that's why you get to that point.

Keke Palmer

Right to your point about that point. You can't deny the awareness. I had become so aware. I had become much too aware when you started.

Jay Shetty

You.

Keke Palmer

You don't know, but once you are aware. I was aware that if I said yes to that movie and didn't do what I wanted to do with Ted, I would have been betraying myself. See, these other situations, the self betrayals, are not as glaring because we don't really even know how to really show up for ourselves. We're still trying to become aware of what we want. But once you become aware of what you want and aware of what's not in alignment with that, and you decide to still do what's not in alignment with that, well, now you gonna have me. D. I betray myself and that once I become aware of when I could be betraying myself, I'm not closing my eyes to that. Like, you can't. I am not going to be blindfolded

Jay Shetty

to that one thing.

Keke Palmer

If I can't really see and I don't really know and it's a delayed reality, but when I know straight out, this is the moment I was waiting for, what am I going to do with it? And I'm going to show up. For me, I must pause.

Commercial Voice

Pause.

Jay Shetty

That was. That was just. I want to go to this church. I'm waiting. Keith, you got to set this up. I'm like, all in. I'll be the first disciple. I'm like, right there. I'll be the first student to sign up and subscribe. I mean, I'm so in. I'm like, I've never been this motivated in my life. I'm gonna walk out of here and like, change the world after this.

Keke Palmer

Like, you already.

Jay Shetty

No, no, no. But this is. No, that's what I'm saying. Like, this is like, this is the most pumped up I've ever been on the show. I'm like, dude, you need to go out there and sort your life out. What are you doing? You want a p. Serious.

Keke Palmer

One Virgo to another.

Jay Shetty

I'm being serious. I mean it. I'm not just saying it. I actually mean it. I'm being very genuine. You mentioned a couple of moments ago the idea of love. And I was thinking about a lot of our audience are young women. They're entrepreneurs. They're doing incredible things. They're winning at life. But the question that I constantly get is, Jay, I want to find the right partner. I want to find the right person. That's an important part of my life. What do you look for in a partner today? With everything you've achieved, everything that you are, all the inner work that you've done, what do you.

Keke Palmer

You know, this is a question I've been asking myself. I had a cool little moment with my mom the other day where it was kind of a realization of if you're not really wanting what you say you want, your relationships are going to keep failing. And I feel like because my parents were traditional, I thought that that's what I wanted. And by traditional, I just mean, like partic, you know, married. You know, we are in a very. Just like, my parents are so all American and ain't even funny. You know, they found each other out of college, fell in love a year, got married. They ain't left each other's side since. They are an American story. And so I assumed that that was for me because I admire it so much and I just thought it was just so awesome. But the truth was that actually is not in alignment with who I am in my life. My parents weren't entertainers full time. They weren't doing the kind of work that I were doing. They weren't dedicated to a passion in this regard. They don't have my same personality. They don't have my same makeup. They made me from that, but I'm not actually that tradition. I always loved whoever I wanted to love. Relationships can look any which way to me. Like, that's how they felt. Even though I was trying to do something that I felt was the only way to do it. And so now what relationships look like for me is like I'm somewhere between Uncle Jessie and Erykah Badu probably. You know what I mean? I'm living with my family, you know what I mean? Like, I love that, you know, I want to be in my own house and I want to be in My own house, with my family, with my sisters, with my niece, my nephew. Like, I always want us to have that. Like, that makes me happy. So I don't think that my, like, love or relationship with me necessarily looks like we live together, or if we do live together, we live together part time. Like when I'm coming to where you're at and I decide to stay with you for a little while and then I go back to my house. So there's a big space that has to be held for independence and freedom. That doesn't mean I want to sleep with everybody in the world. That's not what I mean by freedom. Although it could look. It could look like that. It really means I just want to have my own space to be me. And I think that's something I used to lie about to myself about because I felt like I had to perform what it was to be a partner. That means we got to be together all the time. That means we got to do all this together. But that actually isn't what I like. And so then my personality change. I start being a little withdrawn. I don't really care as much. And now you feel like I'm lying, but I'm not intentionally lying. I'm just trying to be a role that I don't want to play. And I act most of the time. So now I'm tired of acting with you. And now the relationship is done.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

And so I think what I'm learning about myself are those things. Right. I don't necessarily need to be with somebody all the time because I still want to be with my friends and I want to be with my family and I want to be with myself. That's number one. We have to have great stuff. Sex. Sorry, could look at it. I'm like, that's. I mean, that's. That's a reliever. You know what I mean? You need that relief in life. So we have to have some type of passion and chemistry in that regard. I don't think I always was. Again, as a woman, you're not allowed to. Yeah. You can't be truthful, but half the time that's why you're mad, because you're not getting that vitamin D. You needed it to be at a certain level and it was given not enough. So, you know, I got to be real about that.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

So I think that's important. And experiences, like quality time. We could be on the couch watching a movie or show, or we could be going on an excursion somewhere in the Alps. So experience. I think I see. I think for me, relationship love is less about what it looks like to other people, what relationships are supposed to be, and truly what makes me happy, what allows me to be fully myself, what's fun to me. Not that we don't have difficult times, but what is ultimately fun, respectful and true.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

I remember I was talking to some guy recently and he kept saying sorry every time that he would be late to a message to me or something like that. And I really wanted him to know, like, you're not obligated to me. We. We know. I know we vibing. And I love the vibing, and I love that you want to reach out to me, but I want to know that you want to reach out to me because you want to reach out to me. Not because you think I'm going to be angry with you or because the connection's then going to be lost, or because if you need time, I want you to know that I can hold space for you to need time, because I want you to hold space for me. Because the truth of the matter is you don't want to talk to somebody all day long sometimes.

Jay Shetty

Definitely.

Keke Palmer

It don't mean you don't love them,

Jay Shetty

especially as you get older, you know what I mean?

Keke Palmer

It don't mean you don't love them. It just means you need to be. You might need to be in your mind for a minute, or you might need to take, you know, break or whatever, and then you come back and say, hey, it was a hard day for me. I know you ain't heard from me all day, but I'm holding space for you because I don't need you to perform connection. I need you to just be truthful in you. And I think that's what it looks like for me. Now, what is the truth for you? And can you still love me in that or do you still like me in that? You still wanna hang out with me? If you still wanna hang out with me, then maybe we could be meant to be, you know?

Jay Shetty

That's such a great answer. I feel like everyone's doing some version of that. Forming, folding, molding, performing. Right? We're all kind of going, oh, you want me to be a bit more that, then I'll be a bit more that, and you want me to be a bit less that, then I'll be a bit less that. And then we end up becoming this version, and then we resent ourselves, and then that person doesn't like us either, because it's like. It's like all of it. We Failed at all of it so

Keke Palmer

many times because I just thought that I had to be this traditional vibe and it wasn't me. And so then after a while, I'm tired of playing this role. And it ain't even like there's some secret that you're hiding. It's like I want to be in my room alone. And I just didn't take enough space for myself. And so now I'm mad and my relation, because I've betrayed me and I'm resenting.

Jay Shetty

We're scared that being ourselves will push the other person away. But then if you become the person they want you to be, you push them away anyway because you don't like yourself. You don't like yourself and you can't do it for that long. How long are you going to do it for? And so it's so fascinating that, yeah, we'll say, oh, no. But if I. If I tell them that this is what I want and this is what I need, then they might go away. And. Right. It's true. Like, that's. That's what people are thinking.

Keke Palmer

And honestly, maybe they should. You know, some of these people,

Jay Shetty

this is that Virgo right now.

Keke Palmer

It's like we are having a Virgoing time. It's absolutely incredible. But it's true because sometimes you doing all that shit and it's like, that was never for you, girl, or guy or them or they. That wasn't for you. And so we do have to really start being truthful so that we can actually be connected with the people that are on our same frequency. The more that we're contorting ourselves into being who we're not, the more that we're actually getting what we don't want, which is just like, so sucky.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Yeah. It's the worst. It's the worst. Do you find it hard to trust people?

Keke Palmer

I think so. Even just put some of my shit down with them. Trust. Because I also feel like that my life comes with a lot of stuff that people can end up getting affected by. So it's hard a piece because I feel, you know, that my life is a lot going on and I don't want it. Like, it's hard to trust someone with that weight. And so I kind of just say, well, I don't want to tell it because that's too much for you and I don't want to really put it on you. But then also, when I have let people into my world, the lights are bright. And the reality of it is every relationship is a Little bit transactional doesn't mean that it's bad. Like, you know, there's always a gift. Somebody's going to be getting something, you're going to be getting giving something. And it happens back and forth. And that's. To me, there's nothing wrong with. That's. That's humanity. That's relationships. But what happens sometimes with me is that sometimes people get stuff they didn't even ask for. They get attention. Their perception could be either inflated or it could be deflated. There's so much that they could get that they're not even aware that they could get that they didn't even necessarily want. But then they're then asked what they're willing to take. And I've been very disappointed a lot of times because I've learned that a lot of people will take more than they need just because. And it's very human. But it's very hurtful to me because then I feel like I'm not being seen and valued really for who I am. But you're now being lost in the world of who I'm perceived to be. And you're willing to take whatever that world gives you. And that is an extraction, actually, from me. It's very extractive. So that has hurt me a lot in relationships, being able to say it has become so happy. Cause I would just feel it. I'm being robbed of something. I don't know what you're stealing, but there's something being dimmed. But I've learned now what it is that's happening. And I hold grace for those people. But I create healthy distance.

Jay Shetty

Yes.

Keke Palmer

Because without that awareness, you might rob me. And I'm not open for theft, you know?

Jay Shetty

Yeah, people. Yeah, people fall in love with your avatar. They fall in love with that, you know, that 2D version of you. And that happens to everyone, by the way. You don't have to be a public figure or be in movies for people to do that. People fall in the 2D version of you. And often that 2D version is the version they even made up of. Of you. And then the benefits that come with that 2D version. And none of us want to be loved for that.

Keke Palmer

No.

Jay Shetty

Because it's a caricature. It's like.

Keke Palmer

It feels like erasure.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

It feels like you're being erased. It feels like erasure. It's like, damn, I don't matter. I don't. It's so funny because you find yourself in these relationships where it's like, again, this goes back to what we're talking about where it's like, well, you erased that person first because you didn't speak the truth. You didn't actually say your boundaries. You didn't have actually say your limits. You didn't actually. So they're only acting like you. And so it's really important for perception to not be something that guides you and for you to know yourself enough to know what is reality and what is just other figment of other people's imagination.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Yeah. And we outsource that a lot. What does my mom think? What does my friend think? What is my. You know, and. And you can just outsource the biggest decisions of your life to the group chat.

Keke Palmer

Woo. That group chat need to be on Paul.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Yeah.

Keke Palmer

Right now the world is up over here.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, but we do it. We do it all the time. We do all the time. Kiki, we got a game for you that I want to play with you. Got a few more moments like this was made just for you. It's called does it have a little sweetness to it? So I'm going to give you a scenario and you'll tell me if it's sweet or if it's a no go when it comes to dating.

Keke Palmer

Okay.

Jay Shetty

All right. They create a playlist for you.

Keke Palmer

Ah, the sweets.

Jay Shetty

That's sweet.

Keke Palmer

I think that's sweet. A playlist. I just made a playlist for someone I did. They don't know, though.

Jay Shetty

Okay. You're scared of giving it to them.

Keke Palmer

I'm not giving it to them.

Jay Shetty

Oh, you're not giving it to them.

Keke Palmer

I'm not. I'm scared. It's for me when I'm thinking about them.

Jay Shetty

Oh, okay.

Keke Palmer

It's like a playlist for me when I want it to be the soundtrack of my mind.

Jay Shetty

Okay. Morning, evening.

Commercial Voice

All day.

Jay Shetty

All day. Wow. Oh, wow. All right. Some lucky person. Gigi, this is. All right. They keep a photo of you in their wallet.

Keke Palmer

That's sweet. Okay, that's sweet. And their wallet is sweet.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. Not their screensaver, though. On their phone. Screensaver or wallet.

Keke Palmer

Just me. Screensaver is a bit much, I think.

Commercial Voice

Screen.

Keke Palmer

Screensaver is us. I'm happy.

Jay Shetty

Got it.

Keke Palmer

Just me cringe.

Jay Shetty

Screensaver's cringe. All right, don't do that. All right. They bring you soup when you're sick.

Keke Palmer

That's so lovely. That's so thoughtful. Absolutely.

Jay Shetty

You're very empathetic, compassionate, loving human being. Someone else would be a bit more savage with this. All right. They plan an entire date but won't tell you. I like that. Do you like surprises?

Keke Palmer

I like. Well, I like to know that I'm about to be surprised. So if he set the context of this is a surprise, then I'm cool. Sometimes surprise can be a bit much if I'm not in the mood for the. Because I get overstimulated. And this is what I've also noticed with my son. The reason why my son is like that is because he knows he's overstimulated, and so he'll be like, back up all this shit. You know what I mean? Y' all doing too much. That's what I actually feel. And so I've learned to, like, actually just say, like, don't. You know what I mean? Because it's too. I get overstimulated, and then I become plateaued.

Commercial Voice

It's too much.

Jay Shetty

I get it. Yeah, I get it. All right. A few more. They write you a handwritten letter.

Keke Palmer

Is it positive or is it negative? It's a love letter.

Jay Shetty

Yeah.

Keke Palmer

I'm here for the love letter.

Jay Shetty

Okay. I'm here for the love letter. I love it.

Keke Palmer

Oh, my gosh.

Jay Shetty

Gosh, you're so easy to please. You're like, yeah, I'll take it.

Keke Palmer

All right. That's the problem.

Jay Shetty

They asked to take a picture together after the first date.

Keke Palmer

No, that's an absolute no picture together after the first day. What we doing is. This is not a no. No, I don't want that.

Jay Shetty

There's no exceptions to that one. All right. They call instead of texting you back.

Keke Palmer

Absolutely not. Do not call me ever, ever. I'll call you. If I don't start the calling with you, don't call me. I'm here for text. I'm even here for voice notes. Don't call me.

Jay Shetty

I hate voice notes, especially. People talk so slow.

Keke Palmer

Do you have your trans.

Jay Shetty

I'm like, get to the point, bro.

Keke Palmer

Do you have your transcripts on?

Jay Shetty

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keke Palmer

I just read the transcripts. Half the time.

Jay Shetty

I literally. I'm like, I can't stand voice notes unless you have an amazing voice. And I asked you to send me a voice note. Something. Please do not send me a voice note. Please don't send me a voice note.

Keke Palmer

You are too funny.

Jay Shetty

They want to spend every day together. Obviously, we know the answer to that one.

Keke Palmer

That's too much. It's not even. Because I don't like you. But we're not going to be good if we do this. Like, we're just not. I think what would be, like, really good? Like, my minimum would be, like, once a Week. Seeing you in person, that's like a straight. Like, I would like to see you at least three times a week. I think three times a week is good. And then we can have space in between there. You know what I'm saying? Because let me miss you. I also have learned that I like that. That I like being able to come back to be so. My gosh, you won't believe what happened the last few days. I didn't get a chance to tell you about this. We need.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. You don't want that daily. Just routine. Yeah.

Keke Palmer

Cause what are we saying?

Jay Shetty

Yeah. How's your day? Yeah. Yeah. They tell their mom about you after the second date?

Keke Palmer

No, no, no, no, no.

Jay Shetty

Has someone done that before?

Keke Palmer

Yeah.

Jay Shetty

Wow.

Keke Palmer

Somebody had me meet their whole family on this.

Jay Shetty

After the second date.

Keke Palmer

On the second date.

Jay Shetty

How did you walk into that?

Keke Palmer

I was going through a breakup.

Jay Shetty

I say, hey, what did you do? Did you just go, hey? I just said, hey, y'.

Keke Palmer

All. I mean, it turned into a tour. I felt like I was on a super fan tour.

Jay Shetty

You.

Keke Palmer

But it was. I didn't have anything else going on, so I went with it.

Jay Shetty

Last one. They dance with you in the kitchen.

Keke Palmer

That's sweet. I love that we're dancing in the kitchen.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, it's sweet. I like it.

Keke Palmer

It's a little bit of a movie.

Jay Shetty

I like it. Okay, so this is good. This is. There's. There's lots of opportunities.

Keke Palmer

It's super sentimental.

Jay Shetty

It's super. Like, I am too. I think that's. Is that the Virgo in us, or is that just. I think that is hopeless romantic in us.

Keke Palmer

We clearly have a similar personality. I don't know how much of that is our signs, but us having the same sign, I mean, it does seem like it's goes hand in hand. We love genuine when sincerity moments like that's always going to win with us. We don't like anything. Virgos don't really like when stuff is like, just false.

Jay Shetty

Yes. Yes.

Keke Palmer

You know, so those things feel pure.

Jay Shetty

Pure. Yeah. And real. We talked about this, but I wanted to talk about from the perspective of like, you just took on so much responsibility when you were young. And for me, it's like I remember taking on responsibility for myself, and that was hard enough. I started working when I was 14. I paid for my. My own phone bill, paid for my first car, paid for all of that stuff. But I wasn't taking care of my family. My family was taking care of me. So I'm like, I can't imagine what that Does. What do you feel you've had to unlearn from your childhood?

Keke Palmer

That time is over. Because I think that that was necessary at that time. You know, I come from a village, the village of Robbins. And community is everything. And I still stand behind those rituals in order for my family to get out of poverty. That was what it took. But I just didn't realize when it was done. It did require a lot from me, but I didn't do it alone. My parents were there for me. It was definitely like it was a scenario. You know what I. There's some things that like, we've got to understand that like, are systemically what happens. And it's not a scenario that you would hope for. But I felt like I could do it. And so I did my very best. And my parents were there and it was a business that we held up. It was a lot of it was on me because I was the one in front. But I didn't do it alone. They were there to support me. And so it got to a point where it's like, that's over. So everything that I had to learn to be during that time, I just didn't learn. And I'm going to have to have as many years of. Of relaxing it to know that it's done with. Because I don't have to operate from that same level. Don't have to operate from that same place that. The same thing that was driving me then or what I was feeling like I was up against, I'm no longer up against. Because I think that like realizing that. That. That it's over, that we survived it. You know what I mean is the is. Has been the biggest thing.

Jay Shetty

Yeah. It's so hard, isn't it? Again, it goes back to those tools that you develop. You develop a mindset that gets you out of the mess.

Keke Palmer

Yep.

Jay Shetty

And then you have to let go of that mindset in order to get the next one.

Keke Palmer

Exactly. And really self compassion is the main one. My feelings were not important. My desires to rest, my desire to be free, you know, See. So you see these collections of why I see love the way that I see it. You know, because being responsible for other people, that I've exhausted that. Or feeling responsible for other people, I've exhausted that. That I've had enough time with that in my life. So being able to feel like I can be my own self, that's what's more connected to what is actually needed for me in my life in love and friendships and family. And so being able to be Free. Being able to be my own self. Being able to say that I don't want this. Being able to say that I'm tired of you. Being able to say that I need a break. Being able to say no to the project. Those are all versions of me reminding myself that I'm not in survival mode. I've seen survived it. We've survived it. I can truly be free.

Jay Shetty

Kiki, I love talking to you.

Keke Palmer

I love talking to you too.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, we have a great time. I know.

Keke Palmer

You're the best.

Jay Shetty

We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.

Keke Palmer

Okay.

Jay Shetty

And so, Kiki Palmer, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Keke Palmer

Effy, never let someone else perception of you be your perception of yourself.

Jay Shetty

Good advice. Question number two. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Keke Palmer

Oh, that's hard.

Jay Shetty

You don't remember any of it, right?

Keke Palmer

I probably blocked that shit out. I don't know. That was hard.

Jay Shetty

Yeah, that's hard. That's good. We'll skip it. Question number three. How do you define a good friend?

Keke Palmer

I mean, it maybe seems simple, but a good friend is somebody that lets you be you. You know, Good friend is somebody that you don't have to perform around that. That you can truly rest in who you are.

Jay Shetty

Absolutely. Absolutely. Question number four. I want you to repeat this and finish the sentence. I think I think too much about.

Keke Palmer

I think I think too much about systems and structures.

Jay Shetty

Tell me more.

Keke Palmer

I'm a person that's really driven on pattern recognition. Like, that's like how my cognition functions. I'm like, constantly searching for patterns.

Jay Shetty

We're literally the same person.

Keke Palmer

I love that we have us now for each other, because I'm about to be like. Cuz, literally, dude, I just. I'm always looking at the underneath, underneath of the underneath of what caused that and why was that? And know it's a good thing. But sometimes it's like, take a break, babes. Just, just stop looking for the reasons, the reasons that we're here.

Jay Shetty

Sing it.

Keke Palmer

Whose song is that?

Jay Shetty

I have no. I don't know.

Keke Palmer

Dang. I got a friend. I don't know why that popped into me when I just thought about that, but it's like I'm always doing that. And I remember back from when I was a little bitty girl in my grandma's house, outside of a porch, looking at the ants, studying patterns, systems, structures. I've always been Obsessed with that, with my lines, the way I learn my lines, the way I understand words, the way that I understand experiences. Everything is based on that. And so it's. It's obviously something I truly enjoy. You know, it's like math ontologically. It's like, you know, the experience of being able to recognize what's going to come next just because you're watching and learning through what you see. I love it, but sometimes I need to take a break and just be. And stop always trying to be Albert Einstein.

Jay Shetty

I love that. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world has to follow, what would it be?

Keke Palmer

I hope nobody's mad at me, but I think that this would help us with all this over manufacturing, everything like this. You don't have to be a vegetarian, maybe you don't have to be a vegan. But let's be seasonal and have things for a period of time. Maybe only chicken this time of year, Maybe only beef this time of year. Maybe only fish this time of year. Maybe only, you know, these vegetables when they're in season, only like, I feel like it will help us a little bit, I think. You know, I've been thinking a lot about the global warming bit. I've been thinking a lot about the Earth and how we can try to get something under control. I think it would be good if we did things marked off so that we wouldn't overdo it. And then people getting sick and then now we got to pump everything up because we don't have enough of it. Well, if it was only for this time of year or if we had year where it's like this is the year of chicken or this is the year. You know what I mean? Like, just. I don't know, I just feel like we got to get that under control.

Jay Shetty

Yes.

Keke Palmer

You know, so I would love to do something where the food and stuff was like, you know, more to accessible, especially in food deserts. I grew up in a food desert. We only had a liquor store. I remember working the first time when I was a kid with this organization called Urban Farming because they actually would go in urban areas and farm because there was no access to actual food. Everything was just processed, packaged stuff. And so like, you know, I wish that those things was free. I wish that people could have free foods that grow. They should be able to grow where you are and you shouldn't have to pay for them. I know farmers was coming for me. I'M not coming for you farmers. I'm not saying you don't deserve to be paid. I'm just saying that maybe the government could hook us up, help us out. You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty

God, Kiki Palmer, you are the Kiki. You are the best.

Keke Palmer

You have the best questions.

Jay Shetty

You're the best conversation. I have the best. Honestly, I've not had this much fun on the podcast ever before. I have to give it to you. If anyone asks me what was the most fun you've had on the show, it's with you, without a doubt. I mean that. It's been seven years, too. So when I say that, it's. It's a real statement.

Keke Palmer

I feel the same.

Jay Shetty

You.

Keke Palmer

I just knew. That's why I was saying, telling everybody because I was working a day and I'm like, it's going to be so great with Jay because he's going to be talking about something so interesting. I just knew. And so you didn't disappoint.

Jay Shetty

Good. I'm glad. We'll come back anytime.

Keke Palmer

Yes.

Jay Shetty

Minute. Thank you. You're the best. Thanks. You're so much fun.