Conor O'Kera Will

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Paul Feinbaum

Hey, what's going on?

Conor O'Kera Will

This is the OG kickoff. A double down in next round. Media production. I am Conor o' Kera Will. I think we deserve a round of applause because my gosh, we successfully bullied Brendan Sorsby out of playing college football. Let's, let's. You know what?

Paul Feinbaum

Bullying works sometimes, guys. And I think we should bully more people in power.

Conor O'Kera Will

You know, not just even people in power. And by the way, I saw people saying, oh, credit bread and sorcerer for doing the right thing. No, never. No, no, no, no, no. That is not how this works. The Big 12 and Texas Tech clearly were at odds and clearly someone set him down and they eventually all had the conversation of guys, is this worth it? Is this worth it? Because maybe it's not. Maybe, maybe the grand scheme of things, all of this is probably going a little bit too far into the deep end and we could Drown. And you know what? This ended the way that it should have with Brandon Torsby not playing college football. And we'll get to the impact of what it means for, for Texas Tech with something that we're going to be discussing here today on the pod. But. Well, I've kind of, I've struggled with this conversation in some ways because obviously we're talking about a kid that is dealing with what is a serious issue. We talked about the ramifications of gambling culture and all those different things. I don't want to make light of that in any way, shape or form. But it was comical to watch Texas Tech screw this up at every single step and then get to this last step only to have Cody Campbell say Texas Tech acted with integrity at every step. It's not a lie if you believe it. According to George Costanza and Cody Campbell.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, I mean, I saw a tweet that said it is becoming. Two things are becoming abundantly clear to me. Texas Tech has an NFL style owner and he is terrible at it.

Conor O'Kera Will

Who is more Texas, Jerry Jones or Cody Campbell? It's a real conversation.

Paul Feinbaum

You know, it's got to be Cody Campbell because the thing about Jerry Jones is he's existed outside of, you know, some things like the, the trades in the 90s and everything. He's really existed within the rules. You can't really be Texas unless you're inventing new laws to break every day. And that's why I got a tip of the cowboy hat to Cody Campbell. This is true.

Conor O'Kera Will

This is true. Some are saying he's the, the most Texas man in existence right now. I mean, he's got an entire show just based on him. Based on him in his life. So we're. And that's the. What the. What's. Why am I blanking the name of the Billy Bob Thornton show?

Paul Feinbaum

The registers.

Conor O'Kera Will

No, no, no, no. Not Landman. What's. What's the name of it? Yeah, Landman.

Matt Berry

Okay.

Conor O'Kera Will

I had the name of it.

Paul Feinbaum

I don't know why.

Conor O'Kera Will

I was only thinking of landmine or something like that. Will, as two people who. Look our franchises now finally have a franchise quarterback. I think, at least I hope there is going to be a market for Brandon Soaresby with the supplemental draft. Some of which I care about, some of which I don't. I think he slips further than people expect and I don't think he's a first round talent yet. Would he have had the potential to be a first round quarterback if he had had a really good season? Of course. Obviously I think he would have been in the NFL if you were already a true first round guy, true late first round guy, and in the same conversations as Ty Simpson. I think he needed this year though. He's basically on a zero tolerance policy now moving forward with gambling stuff, which is a part of this conversation. As much as the NFL would just like to say if you're good, we'll find a spot for you and take on whatever risk is associated with it. It's a little bit different with quarterback, fourth rounder, fifth rounder in the supplemental draft. What do you think?

Paul Feinbaum

I just, maybe I'm crazy man, but I just never saw him as an NFL quarterback. I just thought he was a fun college guy. And I think that the quarterback position is one of true bastions of like you kind of have to play the game at a high level and show some of these things like the Josh Allens are so few and far between and they all have a common theme of guys not getting chances and guys having very high measurables, which I don't really think he has either one of.

Conor O'Kera Will

I think he's got, he's definitely got the size, he's got the mobility. I mean he's got those measurables. I don't know that his throwing ability is quite as next level as people might assume based on the frame and based on some of the things that he can do as a true dual threat guy.

Paul Feinbaum

Let's see, that's what I'm talking about because that is pretty fundamentally job. Pretty fundamentally the job, right? He's like throwing the football. I just haven't seen that out of him on a level that would make

Conor O'Kera Will

me overcome all the risks needs to improve the accuracy. Lord knows that's been said about many a quarterback prospect in recent memory and I don't want to pretend like that's just a non starter for these teams because it's clearly not. But yeah, I, I think he ends up being a little bit later in the supplemental draft. How is that not on TV? It needs to be on TV now. We haven't seen anybody selected in it since 2019. So he's going to be the first supplemental draft pick of the 2000s, which is kind of crazy in itself, but I'm very intrigued, I'm very intrigued at what this step looks like, especially knowing that he's no longer going to be in college football. We don't have to just have this cloud as crazy and as chaotic as it would have been. That's a little teaser. I'm kind of glad that it's off to the NFL and that this isn't going to be the story that dominates the college football season.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, and I'll say too, man, my direct quote on this was like, someone is gonna have to be the adult in the room, right? And we kicked it around, like, at the time I said the NCAA question mark, you're like, no, they don't have any teeth. So we're both right in that regard. It wasn't the ncaa, but the fact that it was basically just the entirety of college football. Like, I don't want to give Brett, your mark, the Big 12 commissioner, that much credit because ultimately the torches and pitchforks were at his door to make the easy move. To just be like, hey, you know, like, it would be one thing if we said, finally a commissioner stands up for what's right, but I think that pretty much anyone in a workplace situation, if you have every member of a large organization saying one thing and one guy kind of just like laughing and being like, hehe, hehe, Technically, I'm technically correct. You know, you can't just have a league, you know, like that. And that's part of the reason why Texas was not a great fit in the Big 12 is they were always kind of trying to change the rules and everything. So if you have these guys that have stayed in the boat after the departure of those schools and been taught that they have a seat at the table, you can't just have another Texas school from the Big 12 go. Actually, we're just gonna let guys just rip it, just do whatever they want. So yeah, I think that ultimately. Good one. And how often are we gonna have. How often have we been able to say that about college football, Connor?

Conor O'Kera Will

Pretty darn rare. It's pretty darn rare, man. Yes. Brett Y works for the athletic directors, he works for the presidents, and once they were able to get all their ducks in a row, it was very clear that this was going to be a massive issue within the Big 12. All right, that's enough on that. At least for like 20 seconds. We have a great pod lined up. Great, great pod. Matt Berry, the new SEC Nation host, friend of the show, not the fantasy football analyst. He is going to join us in a little bit. We're going to close with lad of the week and then a little programming note at the end. Will, let's talk some chaos. We've done this the last couple of years.

Paul Feinbaum

Thank God. Finally, some chaos in the sport.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yes, yes, yes. These are not predictions. I repeat, these are not predictions. I Am not saying that these things are about to happen. And this will be the 2026 photo album. In college football, chaos scenarios outline things that at least have some chance of happening and would have a massive ripple effect on the rest of the sport. We're getting ahead of storylines that could dominate college football and they could be felt by the masses. Mizzou having a bad defense and winning six games would not be a chaos scenario. Okay, Mizzou fans, you would be mad. I get that. The rest of the college football world would probably continue on business as usual and not really think twice about it.

Paul Feinbaum

Like that happened in Georgia. That would be a story.

Conor O'Kera Will

That would be a story. Yes. That's a chaos scenario. And we're talking Kirby Smart legacy. And what in the world is wrong with this program? How many speeding tickets have they had since that parade? That would all be discussed. And you're right, that would indeed be a chaos scenario.

Paul Feinbaum

Look, we got to start taking speeding more seriously in this conference. I've been saying it for years.

Conor O'Kera Will

Look, it just dethroned one of it, dethroned our premier program of the 2020s. We cannot have this happening. So last week, Will, we drafted power conference coaches that we think will be fired in 2026. Everybody should go back, listen to that podcast. Some of those scenarios would create chaos, some would not. More, I think, would actually not at the way that the market is. Is setting up, at least with the most likely of those outcomes. Like, I don't think Baylor has a domino effect in the way that a job like maybe Florida State could. It's not to say Florida State will, but it could. So that's all worth keeping in mind because some of these things would be chaotic within a fan base, but not necessarily felt by, you know, several fan bases within a conference outside of a conference. And Will, last year was one of the more chaotic seasons we've had. It really was. And it's not to say it went full 2007, which is the ultimate standard for an on the field chaos season, but it was beyond what anybody could have imagined. I mean, imagine if last year, we're doing this in June and we say chaos scenario. Brian Kelly, James Franklin, those guys don't make it to November. And Indiana's not going to lose a football game. Let's just throw that out there. I mean, we would have gotten that. That wouldn't have even been considered a. A greater than 0% chance to happen. And yet it happened. So that's why we talk chaos scenarios.

Paul Feinbaum

It's like, yeah, if you Kind of look at the final four. It's funny, the follow up questions we would have asked. It's like, okay, aliens from the future, here are your final four. It's like, wow. Well, Mrs. There. Lane Kiffin really must have got that big game monkey off his back. No, no, not quite. Oh my God. Miami finally won the acc. No. You're not going to believe this, right?

Matt Berry

Yeah.

Conor O'Kera Will

Things have a funny way of. If you just looked only at one specific result and tried to figure out how in the world we got to that point, very oftentimes you would be wrong. And you know, I argued last year, Florida was the ultimate agent of chaos going into the season. It felt like every single outcome that you could have mapped out for Florida was indeed chaotic. And I think that proved to be true. Maybe not quite to the extent that I thought, but we had a premier job open up.

Paul Feinbaum

But this is just a quick side tangent. I'm getting a little bit worried about Florida, like in a good, like, good for them way. They've kept a lot of really good guys. They're recruiting really well. John Silver all is like the best kind of Chad guy. Like I'm kind of looking up at some of their numbers. Like it's going to be legendary how bad Billy fumbled this.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, if Florida. So we did the 40 and 40 rankings for the next round. That'll be coming out soon. Those guys do a great job of, of counting down the top 40 teams in college football, which we all vote on. It was fun to be able to vote on it this year. And I don't know about you, we'll get back to the chaos in a second here. I got to the end of the top 25 because we only vote on 25, but they include 40 because obviously that factors in other teams. And I'm looking at Florida going, man, I know that they've only won four games last year, but I'm kind of looking at this team and all the things that John Summerall's done and I can make a better case for them than I can for a lot of these others. And I feel a little bit icky about that. But yeah, you're right. It's kind of hard to, to go against it. And that's why the chaos needed to happen the way that it did, because there was still potential there. Even if it was a bit of a gut job. It's a gut job that you're looking up at and going, that house is looking pretty good. Pretty good all of a sudden. We'll see what it Looks like when the actual games happen though, we'll see.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, absolutely.

Conor O'Kera Will

I thought you were going to say that you put Florida in the top 10. I was waiting for you on that.

Paul Feinbaum

I mean, kind of everything I'm saying, I'm like it. Like I said, I just want to kind of pin that down. When people call me a hater. I was a Billy D for your hater and I was completely, completely right.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair, I'll give you that. But yeah, I mean like the Lagway thing, that was of course going to be chaotic if, if it blew up and then his market in the portal we thought was going to be chaotic. I thought it would be way more chaotic than it was. And yeah, he ends up going to Baylor. But the SEC was loaded with chaos last year because we had six teams getting new coaches. So we owe it to the people to forecast. Not predict, but forecast chaos that could be unfolding this season. Does all that make sense?

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, absolutely.

Conor O'Kera Will

All right, let's start with the place that we just worked. Chaos scenario number one. Will Hammond is awesome. The Texas Tech backup quarterback, new QB1 by way of supplemental draft declaration Brandon Sourceby. It's the kind of thing that nobody's talking about. I saw my guy Chris Gordy bring this up. Hammond's coming off the torn acl. Maybe if he weren't, there'd be a little bit more buzz about him because we'd get to see the practice clips going all over the place and stuff like that. They would very quickly turn the page. Even though I think Joey McGuire is clearly trying to talk to the Pete Nikos's of the world and get out ahead of that message. We've talked about that, but you know, it's worth remembering this is a former four star quarterback who is entering year three who has legitimate backup reps because of how lopsided those games last year were very often whenever they had Baron Morton out there. And it's worth noting that Tech was willing to pay an arm and a leg to get Sourceby. Let's not dismiss that and how much they did to try and get that guy to be able to play football this year. So we can connect dots and say either their evaluation in Hammond wasn't particularly good or they might have just looked at this and gone, well, you know what, it's just easier. That's the path of, of least resistance. Because I mean maybe they, they could have just given him the QB1 Runway if they thought that the difference wasn't that good. And I don't know, like I go back and forth on that. I'm going back and forth even within this explanation because you know, last year Georgia came out was recruiting Fernando Mendoza and then months later Kirby Smart is going on a war path dunking on Feinbomb for criticizing Gunner Stockton. So Gunner Stockton ends up finishing seventh in the Heisman Trophy voting. So you know, I think you can go both ways with that and we'll play the results with this. Sometimes teams don't even fully know what they have and sometimes a guy rounds into form once he gets starts week to week and I think he's going to be set up for a lot of success if and when he makes that return. Week three as they're currently projecting. You know, I've mentioned this before but it's, it's a really good group of skill players that Tech still has. And while I do think the defense takes a step back, the under discussed part of this meteoric rise that's, that's taken place in Lubbock is the fact that they got Shield Wood from Houston to fix the defense. And they did that in astounding fashion last year. I mean that was a group that, you know, they played the bowl game against Arkansas, they couldn't stop a nosebleed and then all of a sudden they just transform into this unit that wasn't just pure talent. I mean schematically speaking they're pretty darn good. They did things to Dante Moore that had him in a bit of a pretzel in that game. So I, I think she'll. Wood's a really important part of this and it's kind of the reason why their floor is so tremendously high this year too. She would. Interesting name to keep in mind if the South Carolina job opens up. Just file that one away from Spartanburg. Shield from Spartanburg. That's catchy.

Paul Feinbaum

Is he friends with Tyler?

Conor O'Kera Will

It's gotta be. But anyway, this is a chaos scenario because well, I think the hatred of Tech is, has been diffused a little bit. The air has been kind of lit out of the balloon that would have been building up had Source b been their QB1. Every single game would have been really hated. Everywhere they've gone it would have been Tech against the world. They're still hated. I mean they are. And if they're even better than last year with Hammond as their starter, that's going to Madden people even more because we'll all wonder, hey, why did you do all this for Source B? You had a guy that was that Good. Like couldn't you close your eyes and see this scenario playing out where all of a sudden, wait a minute, Will Hammond's having an all Big 12 season? What was Texas Tech doing? Why didn't they just let that guy be the starter instead of just trying to get this guy to play and have the the state judge and all this hassle and potentially break up the relationship with the Big 12? But yeah, it could even reset the quarterback market in the transfer portal. Even though we've had four consecutive transfers win the Heisman Trophy, three of which were quarterbacks. But that's a different discussion. Yeah, this is a chaotic scenario. Even though it's BYU's year, most of us are one good deal away from finally replacing that worn out rug, fixing up the backyard, or getting the bedroom we actually want. Good news, that deal's almost here. Wayfair's Black Friday and July sale. Get up to 80% off area rugs and up to 60% off outdoor and bedroom furniture. Shop Wayfair's huge selection of styles and find the piece to fit your style, budget and space, plus free shipping. Black Friday in July ends July 27th. Shop today@wayfair.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, I mean, could you imagine the just paradigm shift for Texas Tech if they win with a guy who they recruited where they're just like, hey, you know, built, not bought, right? We're doing out here in L some of these teams like Oregon that are spending billions of dollars. Not us. We got our hometown kit. I think, you know, like, can't you

Conor O'Kera Will

picture after the week that's been Joey Maguire and Cody Campbell saying, like, oh, we never lost faith in Will Hammond. I kind of want that to play out.

Paul Feinbaum

Ready? You got some Russell Wilson, concussion water. He's good to go. Is ACL's never been better. He's been doing HGH in the back. We just got it legalized two weeks ago. Anyway. No, I think, you know, like, part of me could be cynical and say, well, if this guy was any good, they wouldn't have done all this. But in reality, this is the same team. We thought it was a good idea to start Baron Borden for all of last year. So maybe they're just bad at making decisions. It's actually kind of a blessing on him because if this was Oklahoma under, you know, Lincoln, Riley and Stoops, or Alabama, you're going, well, they don't want this guy to see the field no matter what. But considering that every decision they've made up to this point has not worked out for them. This would be the most fitting thing where the guy that they didn't want just comes out and balls.

Conor O'Kera Will

I'll defend them on that. They didn't have a better option than Barrymore last year. They, they did not. And I like, I'll include Will Hammond in that discussion.

Paul Feinbaum

It's not like they couldn't they have just played him last year.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, I mean he was, he was a redshirt freshman last year and he got to play and he lost that game against Arizona State. So like, you know, they saw they lost their only game in the regular season without Baron Morton as the starting quarterback. It's like that's, I, I would defend them there. And Barry Morton was a fine college quarterback. He was just clearly the thing that was holding them back from getting to national championship level.

Matt Berry

Good.

Conor O'Kera Will

And that's a big thing to be held back with. But you're right, if all of a sudden we see Will Hammond ball out, will then retroactively say, oh gosh, not only should they not have gone to the ends of the earth for Brennan Sorsby, but they should have played it the year before too. And they messed that up. That's what.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's, it's interesting because they really did kind of go all in. And some of that stuff is like things breaking the right way. Every transfer almost playing above what they expected. You know, it's so hard in the transfer portal era to who's, you know, rebuilding, who's contending. Sometimes you just catch lightning in a bottle. But it does feel like they kind of went all in last year. And so to see this Texas Tech team was such a target on their back, I mean, maybe it's freeing, you know, maybe maybe having all this stuff happen internally, externally paints a target on their back for sure. But I think it lowers expectations. That's exactly what you'd like if you're in this situation.

Conor O'Kera Will

The one who didn't was Michael Hudson, the former five star who very briefly was at Texas A and M. And then that whole saga of like the Texas Tech going back, it just very, very weird. But if they get all of a sudden get him to play at an all conference level this year, everybody's looking at Tech going, oh my gosh, like this is, this is not fair that they've been able to hit on this many transfers. Their evaluation obviously pretty darn good. Okay, chaos scenario number two, Will. One that you're going to be very interested in, by the way. I think we've hit our Texas Tech quota for the year. I think we're good on that.

Paul Feinbaum

They'll find a way. That's one thing about those, those Red Raiders. They'll find a way.

Conor O'Kera Will

They will. Sam Levitt stays healthy and plays like 2021 Matt Corral. 2021 Matt Corral pre Auburn injury is the ceiling for Sam Levitt. It's the guy who looks like he's in total control, can beat you with either his arm or his legs, doesn't have these grenade games. 2020 Matt Corral is the floor for Sam Levitt. Okay? It's a guy who doesn't look like he's in total control. He can still beat you with his armor or his legs. But he does have those grenade games, those five interception type games where you're just like, man, you need to be able to find a way to sustain a drive against Mississippi State. All right, this is, this is a problem. Worth noting that Corral did not have Charlie West Jr. In his year during 2020 and 2021. He had Jeff Lebby. But this is worth discussing because if Levitt plays At that 2021 Matt Corral level, LSU is very capable of being a 10 and 2 team. That's not crazy at all. I wholeheartedly disagree with Bud Elliott, what he said about LSU having the easiest schedule in the sec, especially when the conference slate starts with two playoff teams at Ole Miss home against Texas A M. I I don't think that that's a fair take. I respect Bud, the work that he does. Blue chip ratio very much a part of the college football lexicon, but disagree with that take. Going 8 and 4 with that schedule, which I think is plenty challenging, would also not be a massive shock for lsu. It would be noteworthy. Chaos comes in the form of link given being a playoff contender in year one. Because while going seven and five with a banged up quarterback would definitely be a chaotic Kiffin having his playoff resume picked apart and having it happen while Ole Miss fans are leading the charge to point out every flaw in that team, which you know they will. This is the new thing of ole Ms. And LSU have basically become Texas and Texas A and M with how online they are at each other's throats. That would be chaotic if that played out. So I think LSU being being actually a good team is more chaotic than the alternative. Do you agree or disagree with that?

Paul Feinbaum

I think so. You know, I think that we're pre setting up ourselves to be outraged by LSU not being good this year. I mean, you know me. There have been exactly two years in our long friendship thus far that I've said I think LSU can win a national title. This year it was 2019 and 2023, and it took wild things for 2023.

Conor O'Kera Will

I've never, I've never said LSU can win a national championship. So we're in total disagreement.

Paul Feinbaum

I've never exactly said that in my entire life. Exactly. But you know, like, if you go back and watch the clip of you saying, unless you contend last year I was like, huh, how about that? And so, I mean, just because in my childhood, you know, when you're a kid, you think you win it every year and then you start to see the things that are the reason why you don't. And so I have been pretty fair about LSU over the years and I think that this year I, I'm in the same boat. You know, I think that eight wins is not fireable. I think that nine wins is about where we're going to sit. To your point about Bud Elliott, you know, saying, oh, Anything less than 10, I think is a disappointment. Again, look at the schedule. If you go back two years, you could see, you know, Clemson and there's another team in there, oh, Tennessee, that have been College Football Playoff contenders in that span of time. It's not like these are teams that have just been doormats. So, you know, you got a couple of teams that were on down years last year that could bounce back, that are on LSU schedule. So that being said, like, I think that when you replace 100% of your production, basically outside of like, you know, the running backs, you're not going to be great, especially in the early season. So I think that we've seen some of these, these teams that have been able to turn it around, but I think it's not been under this amount of scrutiny. I think that a couple of it's going to take a year to get going. Even Lane Kiffin has said that at times. But people want to compare the Ole Miss destination he left, the LSU destination he's at right now, Ole Misses. You know, you said had their best team in school history last year. That's not going to be a fair comparison. It wasn't a fair comparison when Nick Saban got to Alabama and LSU won it the next year. But over the course of 10 years, that's why guys leave jobs. And I think that's what we got to keep our sights on, that this is not a one year deal for Lane Kiffin. D.J.

Conor O'Kera Will

pickett, Wit Weeks, those guys part of the production that they bring back.

Paul Feinbaum

I'm talking about offensively now, on defense. They have no, they have no excuse to be bad on defense. All right? But offensively, we're going to see some weird drops.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, it's, it's fair. It's. It's a very, very new look offense. They have basically just come in and said, nah, we think we have talent in the running back room with Harlan Berry, Kaden Durham and then everything else. Let's start fresh. I don't blame them. I really don't. It was a disaster last year. Okay, number three, Marcus Freeman doing the 2023, Jim Harbaugh. That is a chaos scenario in a lot of ways. Again, we are subtracting the Connor Stallions FBI home rates as part of this scenario.

Paul Feinbaum

Okay?

Conor O'Kera Will

We're not predicting that.

Paul Feinbaum

Look, 2023 Michigan without crime is like peanut butter without jelly. I don't know how you separate the two, man.

Conor O'Kera Will

I am not forecasting a chaos scenario in which Mike Denbrock has the FBI show up at his house.

Paul Feinbaum

Okay?

Conor O'Kera Will

We are not getting into whether or not Chris Ash has anything on his computer that is worth the FBI's attention. We are, we are not doing that today. I cannot say that enough. Okay.

Paul Feinbaum

We are got some bowling scores that have flagged the FBI investigators.

Conor O'Kera Will

We are just talking about winning at a place that has not had a national championship in the 21st century and then going off into the NFL sunset. That is the scenario, the blueprint that we were talking about following here for Marcus Freeman. I have said this before. I've. I'll say it again. This is 100% possible. Possible. Not likely, but possible for a coach who tweeted in late December, let's run it back. Okay. Notre Dame has somewhat quietly gotten over the they can't win the big one notion. If anything, Notre Dame just at this point, they don't have a rest of college football program problem. They have an Ohio State problem. That's the. The biggest hurdle standing in their way. And I've already mapped out the potential chaos scenario of Ohio State missing out on the playoff because for my money, I think Ohio State has the toughest schedule in college football. I'll give him that title. Marcus Room has already beaten Kirby Smart and Kurt Signetti. Okay. If we're just counting Curtzing that his time at iu, Marcus Freeman is the only coach in America who can say that he's beaten three top five teams already after the Irish went 15 years between wins against top five teams. That matters. Okay, so this year you've got a stud in C.J. carr, a guy who I ranked as my number six quarterback, and I immediately regretted it. I was like, I should probably have him higher than that. And he did a lot as a redshirt freshman I'll even throw out there. It's Mike Denbrock getting a returning starting quarterback, which last time he did that 20, 23 Jaden Daniels happened, and that was pretty darn good. So I'm not saying that's necessarily in the works for a very different player, but again, you feel like he is set up for a lot of success. You have an experienced defense that improved a lot down the stretch, that returns the best lockdown cornerback in America, and Leonard Moore. Also look at this will on FanDuel best odds to make the College Football Playoff Much has been made about this because I'm not sure if you've heard this Notre Dame, if It's a top 12 team and the final playoff rankings, it is guaranteed a spot in the playoff. Apparently everybody has just thrown all their money at that. And because they have a favorable schedule this year, with I think two marquee games and everything else, you're kind of like number one on that list of most likely to make the playoffs. Notre Dame at minus 750. That's nuts. Number two, Indiana, minus 340 and then tied at number three, Miami and Oregon both at minus 290. And for everyone that always says, like, hey, Notre Dame is overrated going into the year. They haven't gotten a preseason number one vote in the AP poll in 20 years. They could this year. They're also number one in the country in percentage of returning production, having won 24 games over the course of the last two years, nine of which were against ranked opponents. I think Marcus Freeman has a real interest in the NFL, too, and I think the NFL has real interest in him. So doing the thing that you set out to do, which is win a national championship, it was maybe not billed as that. From from the start, we talk about jobs that you sign up for where the expectation is strictly defined and whether or not you won a national championship there. Marcus Freeman, maybe some would say that that was the expectation when he took over Brian Kelly, maybe it wasn't. But doing that and then moving on at this stage of your life at 40 years old, I think would make a lot of sense because you have time to be able to come back to Notre Dame. So yeah, that is a massive, massive chaos scenario. And I want to get your thoughts on that before we get to the other very chaotic thing that would ensue.

Paul Feinbaum

So I'm going to keep it short because I feel like I've been too nice to Notre Dame this offseason, and it puts the ick in my mouth. You know, there's a difference between having, you know, a disdain for the system and the fans of the administration and a respect for Marcus Freeman and what he's done. And, I mean, you mentioned that game against India, this last loss Indiana's had, right?

Conor O'Kera Will

Correct. Yep.

Paul Feinbaum

In that game, the conversation around it was how Signetti was kind of on fraud watch and, like, how, oh, Google me. Like, okay, you can be up on the soft Big Ten schedule because Notre Dame emasculated them in. In the first, like, home playoff game in college football history. It was cold. I remember this. It was like this team just looks. Looks outclassed. It was like, okay, welcome to the big leagues. Kirk Signetti, which is a funny thing to say now, but that's the point that they were at. And they ran through the College Football Playoff. They obviously had some injuries here and there. I don't think their quarterback knew his name by the end of the year when they lost the national championship game. And so, that being said, like, they are a team that is terrifying to play. And the best thing it's crazy to say about Notre Dame, the best thing I can tell you as this compliment I can give you as an opposing fan, is, I hope your coach goes to the NFL. Like, there was nobody more than me glued to my phone going, oh, he's going to take the Giants job. Oh, he got in the shouting match at a wrestling game or shouting thing in a wrestling match.

Conor O'Kera Will

Like, shouting match at a wrestling match.

Paul Feinbaum

There we go.

Matt Berry

Yes.

Paul Feinbaum

He got. Oh, it's. Oh, he's not happy. But. But then you look up and you go, yeah. This is why. Because subconsciously I did not want him to return to Notre Dame because I do not want to see him in the postseason. And I've never felt that way. It's not the, you know, Brian Kelly, oh, you somehow beat the coronavirus, Clemson. You know, it's not like all these. All these, like, qualifiers of why you're a good coach. It's like, no, you're punching people in the mouth. You're punching good teams in the mouth. And, yeah, your schedule's soft and your fans are annoying and the federal government and Big Brother on your side, but sometimes all that can be true, and you could be a darn good team. And I think that's exactly what Notre Dame has turned into, isn't it funny

Conor O'Kera Will

to think that Brian Kelly's only win against a top five team at Notre Dame was against Djangalalay, with Clemson having covet issues because of. It was DJ Angle's first career start because Trevor Lawrence was out with COVID

Paul Feinbaum

his best care start.

Conor O'Kera Will

They put up 40 points and they, they won that game in double overtime. Like, that's Brian Kelly's lone top five win at Notre Dame. And so like, for all those, those conversations for a very long time, that was justified. I think we have to shift expectations with what Marcus Freeman has done. And in a lot of ways, like you can say, Marcus Freeman inherited a good situation. Like, he inherited a team that almost went to the College Football Playoff at a time in which it wasn't like they were going to have a mass exodus post 2021 with transfer restrictions. They had opened up, but it was still not what it is today, today. And, you know, if all of a sudden this job became vacant, it would be a different cell than what it was after the 2021 season. It is still an elite job. Would I put it tier one? No, I personally wouldn't. But if this chaos scenario plays out where you win a national championship and do the thing that everybody's like, hey, Notre Dame's not going to do that in this era of college football. You could in theory sell it as a tier one job. And I, I think that that would very much be the case. And so that list of candidates would be really, really deep. People would inevitably bring up Kayla Boer, who I don't think would take it because you have the type of alignment right now with Greg Byrne that is as good as you could have asked for. The way with the way that things have started at Alabama. And I don't think you'd be seeking alternative options unless things got really haywire with that relationship. You would get people going. You bring up Signetti, people would go, well, you got to make him say no. Okay, sure, I think they would make a real push for Mike Elko. I don't think Mike Elko would lead Texas A M, but they would make a real push for him. Having already had the experience in South Bend, ironically enough, left South Bend for College Station to be able to get that coordinator job. But that's neither here nor there. I think Kalani Sataki would be a real target at BYU. It is BYU's year. Speaking of guys that are alma maters, could you get Jeff Braum, somebody that's already got experience in the state of Indiana? The list of candidates would Be really, really good. Notre Dame was the least chaotic vacancy when this happened post Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly. Moving created chaos, but the way that they handled it was not because it was obviously an internal promotion. And in this cycle though, I think it has potential to be more chaotic than Florida State, who we've already discussed with Matt Hayes how they could be on the cheaper end of going after a first time head coach like a Charlie Weiss Jr. Or somebody like that that's not necessarily at Lane Kiffin levels of eight figure salary. So, you know, a lot of those other jobs that we talked about last year or last week rather, that would open up like a Boston College, even a Wisconsin, like a Maryland. I think it's, you know, group of five coaches, coordinators are a lot more likely. Whereas like Notre Dame, they could have the chaos unfold by poaching a power conference coach. Chaos happens when you poach a power conference coach. And Notre Dame could definitely do that if it followed the 20, 23 Jim Harbaugh path.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, and I'll say really quick, I think that Marcus Freeman has not changed my opinion of the Notre Dame job very much. It has made me change.

Conor O'Kera Will

I think he's changed mine a little bit.

Paul Feinbaum

Man, let me finish. It has made me respect him all the more for his ability to fit into it. And that's, that's all I'm saying. There is that if you look at what the mobility across college football is and the reasons why guys are leaving established jobs to go to new jobs, it's several things, right? It's a lack of like academic standards, it's fertile recruiting grounds, it's sometimes climate and scenery and things like that. Money for sure. Notre Dame has money. They big fan base. They have some of those things. Favorable schedule, sure. But that being said, it takes a specific type of guy to want to recruit elite athletes to a private Catholic school in the middle of Indiana in a way that, you know, just going to even like an Ole Miss wouldn't do for most people because people could

Conor O'Kera Will

tell themselves, hey, South Bend low key sucks. Can we say that? Look, look, I love the state of Indiana. I love the state of Indiana. Might call it home again one day. South Bend kind of sucks. The campus itself, beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Anybody that's ever been to Notre Dame, like, it is sacred ground, like, go touch your touchdown, Jesus. Do all that. South Bend loki sucks, all right, like, and that's. That gets blown out of proportion when we talk about, you know, whether or not this job is good or that job is good. It ain't exactly moving the needle in terms of desirable places that you just want to live. And you could just like, you're not going to have this. Oh, my God. I fell in love with the town of South Bend. You might fall in love with campus, like, by all means, but that doesn't ever get talked about with Notre Dame because the campus feels so separate to the outside area of the town. And it just never gets brought up because everybody understands the history.

Paul Feinbaum

If you're watching on YouTube, you can see a brief split second where there's fear that goes through my eyes as I'm like, oh God, Connor is going to defend another northern city that I don't know anything about. Tell me. Like, oh, you didn't know they got the largest peanut museum up there? How could you dump on South Bed? And you're like, no, this place is booty. And I'm like, yeah, even you think that you love Indiana, but you went to Indiana. Like, come on.

Conor O'Kera Will

I like and I respect the program.

Paul Feinbaum

I do.

Conor O'Kera Will

I just say it like, no, you're going to the campus. You're not really going to the outer areas of it. I, I get it. There are a lot of places like that.

Paul Feinbaum

But I commend their, their commitment to their culture and academic standard. There was a Supreme Court justice with a Notre Dame degree. That is not true about Louisiana State University. At the same time, that doesn't make people want to come, you know, get five star athletes there. It could be both things. Again, it's not hater, it's what they're. Their priorities are being met up there.

Conor O'Kera Will

There are a lot of places where you would rank ahead in terms of like college towns that you want to just go experiences. And I'm not just talking what's on campus and what the buildings look like. And again, I don't think that's his make or break with some of these coaches and some of these jobs, as we think. But it just never gets brought up with the Notre Dame conversation whatsoever. And every time I go there, I say that to myself. Like, the outer areas of South Bend are, are not particularly inspiring, but whatever. People don't care. Okay, chaos scenario number four, Speaking of the Midwest, will another year, another different Big Ten national champ, as in 4 and 4, as in the exact feat that the SEC accomplished from 2007 to 2010. Four different schools winning national titles. And yes, that was part of a seven year run for the SEC from 2006 to 2012 in which it was nothing but SEC schools winning national championships. I get that. That is a rarefied error. I don't know if we're ever going to see that again in college football. Maybe we're in the midst of that. We don't even know it. But still, that feat, if the Big Ten were to accomplish that this year, would only add to what's really been a chaotic development in the middle part of the decade. I do think it adds to the significance that it would be just as both the Big Ten and SEC made these huge realignment splashes and they said, we're going to add these schools to our conference and we're going to do so in ways that nobody else is capable of doing right now. And obviously the Big Ten so far, in terms of the expansion discussion, has done just fine with that. And Oregon, ironically enough, them winning a national championship could create this chaotic scenario again, something that I've already been on record predicting will happen. Plenty of people have told me I'm crazy. We'll see. My last national championship prediction was totally fine. You shouldn't go back and listen to it. But we also can't forget will usc, according to Lincoln Riley, has a championship window that's not open, that's now open officially in year five. So they could accomplish this feat as well. Hey, what if. How chaotic would it be if an early 2010s Gary Patterson, TCU defense, just transplanted to Southern California, and that was part of Lincoln Riley's team? How about that? Like, maybe they can travel across the country and win a game in November that everybody thinks that they're not really built to? That would be chaotic, right? So USC is very much part of the chaos scenario.

Paul Feinbaum

It's funny, I saw you going back and forth with somebody under our graphic that was like, look at Riley when he took over. We were like three and nine or whatever. It's like, have you considered that we hate, like a Riley? How about that? How about it's our list? How about that guy sucks? Did you ever think about that? And so, yeah, somebody made a point about the NBA Finals where they're like, sometimes football or, sorry, sometimes basketball just comes down to, I'm going to physically dominate you. That's why we have questions about Liquid Riley, folks. So, you know, sometimes it just gets down to it. And that's what the issue has been for Oregon as well. I mean, hey, if you had told me, you know, four years ago that this is what college football would look like at this point in time, I would have never believed you. Obviously, we made a lot about Indiana, but even Ohio State's path is, I mean, arguably less possible historically. The ANA is losing that mini game. Wow. Imagine losing multiple games of the season and winning a championship completely unthought of 20 years ago. And so that being said, like, anything can happen, right? I hate to, hate to be like Mr. Platitudes there, but the three, those three Big Ten perfect Michigan who couldn't throw passes in their quarterback was insane. Ohio State, bad losses, they just started turning on during the playoff wagon juggernaut Indiana. Whatever you're describing to me about Oregon, USC is less ridiculous to those three things all happening for sure.

Conor O'Kera Will

Look, it's not that Michigan couldn't throw passes. It's that Michigan didn't have to throw a lot of.

Paul Feinbaum

They chose not to.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, yeah. J.J. mcCarthy could have been a Heisman Trophy winning quarterback. Just ask him or anybody in his circle. That still goes to bat for nine anyway. But yeah, that would be really. Those are the only two that I could see factoring into that. So the odds of it are not very likely because again we're ruling out, we're saying no Michigan, Ohio State, Indiana. Obviously that would be a certain level of chaos if one of those schools won it, but we're talking about football. Four different Big Ten schools in four years. Well, if Iowa wins a national title, I, I think we have to forget everything we know about this sport and just start over. Just, just brain reset. Just. I want a totally, totally different factory reset approach to the rest of my college football fandom. And it started with Iowa being the last team standing. I, I think we can all get on board with that.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, that was actually low key. One of my like, oh, who's been kind of good. Ish. It's like Iowa would be right there. Right. But no, I think if it's a fourth team for sure. I mean honestly, even four in a row, like it is officially, officially panic mode in the sec. I think that that three we're really starting to get to the end of the year. They're already, you know, the, the Big Ten championship shirts are so funny. It's just always a, a inflection of like whatever you say about me is what you really think where like Big Ten fans, like it's so lame to cheer for a conference and the Big Ten is selling three straight with three rival team shirts. But yeah, four would be a disaster. We might have to open a Big Ten podcast.

Conor O'Kera Will

Oregon beating Ohio State international championship in all Big Ten national championship for the four and four. Yeah, some takes. Definitely be some takes. Okay, chaos scenario number five. A First year SEC coach gets to Atlanta. Two things are true at the same time. One is that it's pretty rare for a first year coach to play for an SEC championship during the 34 years in which an SEC championship has been a thing. The examples 2022, Brian Kelly, 2015 Jim McElwain, 2013, Gus Malzahn, 2005, less miles. Gus is the only one of those four who won it. The other three lost by double digits. Gus needed two miracles to get there. I mean two, like all time historic, great miracles to get there. And there's obviously nothing more chaotic perhaps in the history of College football than 2013 Auburn. A first year coach getting to Atlanta does a lot of things will. First of all, it gives that fan base hope that it cannot just win an SEC title that year, but maybe a national title knowing that they're likely getting into the 12 team playoff. It also makes other fan bases go, wait a minute, that coach just got there and they're already getting to Atlanta. That's not good. That puts pressure on other coaches, other fan bases. I already told you why. LSU going 10 and 2 and getting there would be chaotic. Lane leaving Ole Miss and getting to an SEC championship for the first time as a head coach would. I think that would be really, really noteworthy as you would also make the case Ole Miss doing so immediately after losing Lane to LSU and getting there for the first time in program history. Very, very noteworthy. What's also interesting, it sets the bar pretty high for these coaches who do that. Like you go back and look at the history of those four, the last three that got to an SEC championship in year one, Kelly, McElwain, Gus. How many SEC championships did they win after that? Zero. None. Kelly didn't get to the end of year four, McElwain didn't get to the end of Year three. Death threats. And Gus got to the end of year eight, but very much struggled to recreate that 2013 magic and he was ultimately competing against that for the rest of his time on the planes. So it's just one of those things that it just kind of has a lot of very shifted perspectives. If that type of thing plays out, and I'm not saying that the odds are good, but there's also never been this many new coaches in the SEC. To have six new coaches out of the 16 teams in the conference, there is at least a chance that we could see that play out this year.

Paul Feinbaum

I'm just going to quickly talk about this because you just brought up a team I'm Glad that you talked about the other three first. I would. My kids ask me like, oh, how good was LSU in the 2000s? Cutter Les Miles, his whole team survived Hurricane Katrina. Then they made the SEC championship. I'm like, what was I doing it to? Oh, my house was underwater. That's why I have like memory holding this. They were supposed to play Arizona State at home and. And they had to fly to Arizona with some of their people without homes because they beat Arizona State on this, like, thrilling, this thrilling play. And so it's like that. Les Miles, as a coach, you need to put a little bit more respect on his name because I don't think anyone has ever overcome something as insane as Hurricane Katrina to first year coach make an SEC championship.

Conor O'Kera Will

Seems like a lot. Seems like a lot. It's kind of like the, the coaches entering year one to deal with the COVID season and whatnot. Some handled it well, some did. Mike Norvell things. It's just kind of all over the place with how you handle something that's very, very much outside of your control. But yeah, it is kind of just one of those things where you're, you're always sort of competing against that. And I don't know how much Brian Kelly getting there year one led to his demise in year four. But it was one of those things that all of a sudden you're going, man, you beat Alabama. You got to an SEC championship. Yeah, you got stomped by the eventual national champs. But it set a bar that was very clearly, hey, you're ready to compete. You're ready to compete in this conference. And we said many times after that that they were ready to compete. And I, I just think that, that, that kind of all of a sudden you go from thinking maybe you're like an 8 and 4 team or something like that. If this hits right, if that hits right to all of a sudden just being like, no, no, no, we are ready. We are here and we're ready to compete. If we compete for an SEC championship, we can compete for a national championship. And I don't.

Matt Berry

I just.

Conor O'Kera Will

History tells us it does not always follow that path. You're a lot better off, historically speaking, getting their year two as opposed to year one. Year two, way, way, way more common.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, I, I will not do document terrorism here and actually give you a good response there. I was just like, wow, I kind of forgot that happened. But if you look at kind of the three more modern ones, I think you're. You're totally right in that you could almost kind of Put an asterisk by a couple of them where the sec was the SEC Easter early week in 2015, 2013 took a couple of miracles for Gus. 2022, again, we just hate Brian Kelly. I don't really think there was any asterisk there. It's just bleep that guy. But that being said, I will say the new format does make it feel a bit more legitimate where there's not really a way to hide in the way a couple. I mean, again, hey, 2282, they got stomped up by Tennessee. Like they. They actually did play some pretty hard teams that weren't on the recurring schedule. But that being said, like, I think that the. I think that like basically the new format is in such a way that I think we're gonna see fewer teams make the SEC championship over the course of like a 20 year period. If it stays the same, maybe it won't be this way for five years. We'll end up with Oregon in the conference, I don't know. But if it stays this way, I think making the SEC championship will be such a more impressive feat because you won't have these lame ducks like east teams that we saw here and there who would just show up and then get smoked by Alabama, Auburn, lsu, whoever. So yeah, I think that does speak to building something. It's another reason why, you know, I could never imagine not taking SDC championship seriously because we saw an Ole Miss, an A M team last year that were. I mean, they would have been able to celebrate that for the rest of their lives if they made it and they fell just short.

Conor O'Kera Will

Some are saying. Well, some are saying conference championships still matter. Here to declare. Okay, number six, A six and six Tennessee season in year six for Josh Hypo. Have I said the number six yet? Do I think that happens? No, I do not think that happens. I think he's the adult in the room. I. I think this is when in many ways, Josh Hypel does a very Josh Hypo thing, which is rise above some very low expectations, calm and anxious fan base down and say, guys, I got this. I know what I'm doing. I also think, and I've said this ad nauseam, so apologies for repeating myself. Danny White, his boss, modifying Hypo's contract four times in a. In an improved way. I think that matters, as does the fact that he's under contract through 2029 with a buyout that's 75 guaranteed. If it's before December 15, 2027 that he's fired, that is still more than $20 million that they would owe for a school that went through a multi year legal battle over Jeremy Pruitt and $12.6 million in that buyout.

Paul Feinbaum

Okay.

Conor O'Kera Will

As Adam Sparks pointed out, it is worth mentioning that with Hypo there would be some offset money there that Tennessee would essentially not have to pay Josh Hypo if he were to get another one of these jobs. I think Josh Hypo, if he were fired after a 6 and 6 season at Tennessee, I think he would have a power conference market. I do. Like, I think that there are enough of those jobs that I look at and go, I, I think Hypo would be like at the top of their list just because he's also not done anything off the field to make you think, oh, we can't invest, you know, an eight figure salary into this guy. I'm not saying eight figure annually, you get what I'm saying. But I think that there would be a little bit of a way for Tennessee to kind of skirt around some of that risk with where Josh Hypo is at at this point of his career if it just went really, really south this year. But I, I think his floor is remarkably high. I also would have said the same thing about Brian Kelly last year. Not to make everything about lsu. And then it was a disaster season in which a very large stadium emptied out and told us exactly what was about to happen. And that's why this chaos scenario exists. It exists because Vol Nation's very, very powerful. It has dictated a hire before it revolted to get out of Greg Ciano to only end up with Jeremy Pruitt. That the takes would just be all over the place if loss number three came mid season against Alabama. That's the game to circle for the panic meter. Especially if it coincided with Florida having year one relevance with John Sumrall. We've already talked about how we like this Florida team and the decisions they've made from a personnel standpoint. And then something like Alex Goish returning to Knoxville with Auburn and getting a year in his first, getting a win in his first year there. You'd have some anxious times on Rocky Top. You would what? I upset Tennessee fans if I even just for the sake of this discussion will gave them like three names of people that could be Josh Hypo's successors.

Paul Feinbaum

Is that the bridge too far?

Conor O'Kera Will

Can we, could we be adults in the room and have that conversation?

Paul Feinbaum

Sure, go ahead.

Conor O'Kera Will

Again, I'm not saying Josh Hypel is getting fired, but if he were, you're

Paul Feinbaum

saying that Danny White's prepared to do his job. You're saying he's doing his due diligence. It would be responsible if he did.

Conor O'Kera Will

Connor Exactly. That's all we're saying here. We're just, we are making sure that no stone is left unturned. We are doing our due diligence for Danny White and giving him a list of candidates. Clarkley, obvious reasons. Kenny Dillingham not the last mention of Kenny Dillingham and other jobs. We'll get to that later with Matt Berry. Manny Diaz, another interesting one. We've always liked Manny Diaz. Maybe that would be a little bit too underwhelming. I don't know if Tennessee fans would revolt to shiana levels if Manny Diaz was the guy won an ACC championship. People forget that friend of the show. And then if there were a coordinator, a group of five market which is the thing that nobody ever likes to entertain because everybody always assumes that they're getting power conference head coaches. Even though if you look at the history programs are not poaching power conference head coaches. But that market would be something like Charlie Weiss Jr. Corey Heatherman name to keep in mind. Miami defensive coordinator. That's a really, really good thing so far. Jason Taylor a big part of that. If he were a package deal that'd be really intriguing. And then a bit off the radar. Lance Taylor. Not the Lance Taylor that you know from the next round. Rising star Western Michigan one to circle. They win the Mac again this year. That's going to be a guy who's getting a bigger and better job very, very soon. But look, we just had that conversation. No, no couches were torched, nobody had revolt, nothing was thrown in any sort of river. Everything is fine. But that's what it could potentially look like. Athletic Brewing Company crafts award winning non alcoholic beers for those who want to be part of every round. With over 185 flavor awards, they're exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle. Lifestyle and any social occasion. Summer's full of good times and athletic fits right in. Go to athleticbrewing.com to have brews delivered to your door or find them at a bar, restaurant or store near you near Beer Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all times.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, I'm trying to like get all the pieces together for Danny White because I would say that like Danny White is low key, a very, very high tier athletic director just in America. Like I definitely put him on the short list at the top and so I, I think that he has been very pragmatic the way he's handled things over the course of his career. I mean, there's no better endorsement of someone than how, you know, the program that they leave does after you. And he took UCF from nowhere to the top of college football, and now they are back in the basement. And it just goes to show the ways that he was able to maneuver in. In ways that we'd never seen before. He was inventing strategies for them. So I'm. I'm right there with you. I think he would end up with a guy like maybe a Charlie Weiss that's a little bit off the radar. I could see him going big game hunting and pulling, you know, a guy that was very happy somewhere else or, you know, a guy that we hadn't really heard of or that we hadn't considered that would make people upset, which was what Hypo did. I. I wasn't a big Hypo believer when he came in, but it's worked out really well for them. They resurrected Tennessee football. So I think that I've been a big hopeful believer. I don't think he's going to get fired. I've said, you know, over and over again that as an LSU fan, I would celebrate if he got fired, because again, they stomped us up 23, too. We're reliving all the past trauma today here, folks. Anyway, so we got Hurricane Katrina. We have Brian Kelly. Okay. Wow. And so, point being, yeah, like, just as I would be excited for, you know, not having to play Josh Hypo. And again, the thing about Josh Hypo is when it looks bad, it looks like your buddy that you played ncaa who only run three place. Like, it's like, how do you. How did you win all these games? Here you are running three plays, but when it looks good, man, it looks so hopeless. And the team's getting up and down the field, they're hitting the mess out of you. They're, you know, they're hitting these big open plays. So I think you got to take that in, in, like, perception and bake that in where, you know, he's never going to play this brand of football that is super, you know, complimentary and, and whatever. But I think that overall, if he were, If Hypo were to get fired, you would immediately start to fear as an opposing fan, what Danny White was cooking. And I think that's. That's the part of it that's interesting.

Conor O'Kera Will

Maybe you disagree with this. Rock bottom, during the Hypo era so far was that Vandy game. It was getting run off the Field by Diego Papia. Watching that fan base come into Rocky Top and celebrate was so far, rock bottom. And you could make the case that by losing the bowl game to Illinois, Brett Bilma is sitting there saying that Tennessee was a national championship contender. Two weeks left in the regular season on, pardon my take, whatever, you could make the case that rock bottom continued and that it didn't all of a sudden get better with the off season whiffs at quarterback in the transfer portal. And that's part of the perception problem that we've talked about many times throughout this off season. And that's why we're at this place and that's why the chaos scenario least needs to be discussed. And it again, it's not to say Josh Hypo is sitting here on the hot seat, but many a coach who have not been on the hot seat have found a way to all of a sudden be public enemy number one. And the optics of what it would look like if things went south and if this was all of a sudden the worst season that Tennessee has had under Hypo.

Paul Feinbaum

I was gonna say that would be really impressive under Hypo.

Conor O'Kera Will

That's the key distinction here because 2021 was going into it saying it's year zero and it very much was not. And I, I think winning eight games is not anything to be scoffed at and having a floor like that since then. But yeah, we, we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility of that again. I'd still bet 8 and 4. I'd still bet 8 and 4 for Tennessee. We'll see. We'll see. Okay, last one. Number seven. Archman. Let me say that. Right? I was gonna say Arch Manning. That's not what we're talking about. It is, but it isn't. Arch Madness is actually based on him being that dude.

Paul Feinbaum

Is that a thing?

Conor O'Kera Will

Did you come up with that Arch Madness?

Paul Feinbaum

I haven't heard.

Conor O'Kera Will

No way.

Paul Feinbaum

No way.

Conor O'Kera Will

First of all, shout out to the Missouri Valley Conference. I remember they've called it Arch Madness, their conference tournament for forever. I think they have a trademark even they might. I don't even think Arch could make any money. I don't think Arch can any money off that. He should be able to, but I don't think he can. I think they've, they've had that since like the mid-2000s. I mean, I remember freshman year of college watching a lot of Arch Madness because it came on the week before the rest of conference championship weekend.

Paul Feinbaum

And being like, this is what I was talking about earlier with South Bend I just never know what's bumping around that little, little noggin.

Conor O'Kera Will

Too much Arch Manning. That's right. That's what we're talking about. We're not talking Missouri Valley basketball. How would we handle Arch looking like that dude from the jump? Because we've already seen what it looks like for him to not live up to expectations. That chaos scenario already unfolded last year. Okay, what would be the conversations if he established himself as the best player in college football? Some think he is capable of that. I don't think that's inevitable. It would be a chaos scenario felt not only in college football, but of course the NFL level. You'd have everyone and their mother talking about tanking arse for Arch. That is mine. Please don't steal that arse for Arch. Shout out to the Brits taking that. Trademark not pending. Maybe. We'll see. You'd have people probably saying that he's still flawed as well and there'd be this, this pushback and I mean even go like late 2019, Joe Burrow. I remember Dan Orlovsky getting up there and get up and be like, Trevor Lawrence is the much better player than Joe Burrow and blah, blah, blah. And he's like, oh, so anyone can have resistance in this day and age. So even if he's that good, there would still be people that would push back and go, well, if his name was Arch Smith, we wouldn't be having these conversations. And I always think there's a level of chaos if we're talking about potentially this would be the byproduct of Arch having this type of season. There's always chaos. If we're talking about a coach who hasn't won a national title, checking that box, who's been just kind of right there, right there. Get over the hump. Ryan Day 2024 is the best recent example of that. Sark doing that would give us another coach doing that for the, for the first time. We've had three consecutive years of a new coach joining the national championship winning club. I went back to try and find a stretch in which there were four consecutive years of a first time national championship winning coach. 2000 to 2003 was the last time it happened. 2000, Bob Stoops, 2001, Larry Coker, 2002, Jim Trestle, 2003 Nick Saban or USC fans will tell you it was Pete Carroll.

Paul Feinbaum

Why would you do this?

Conor O'Kera Will

It's pretty likely that we see that stretch is going to be matched like that, that we will hit four because the only way that it's not matched is if a national title is won by Kirby Smart, Kurt Signetti, Ryan Day, Dabo Sweeney. Not sure what the odds are on that, if that's even been created by one of these sports books, but I would imagine it would be minus money to take the field. I don't know. But anyway, Arch being the extremely rare guy to do all of those things and live up to expectations would be chaotic. For what it's worth, my expectation for Arch this year includes checking all three of these boxes. Get to Atlanta, get to New York, get to Vegas. And that's not to back up Fernando Mendoza. That's where the national championship is being played. But that's, I think, all on the table. Now, if he plays for like a 10 and 2 team that misses out on an SEC championship, but he still does those other two things, you could say that it's all forgiven. But I. I think that's where the bar is. Get to Atlanta, get to New York, get to Vegas, play for a national championship.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, a lot has been made about expectations. I think this is one where Texas truly, you know, has nowhere to run. I think that ultimately you could talk about Art Smith or whatever. Let's just take the last name out and say he's a guy who has these NFL measurables, who has been lauded since he was a kid, who's been prepared for the spotlight. I mean, I think that it's fair. I think that ultimately it's fair. I often will push back against some of that and say, oh, you know, the kids, you know, don't choose to have this life in a situation that's benefited him greatly. Right. He's a guy that was independently wealthy and has made his own money technically since the time he got on the campus and probably not before that. I think his family was pretty above board there because they didn't need the money or the stress of like, you know, invisible hand guys. And so that being said, I. I think that, you know, obviously Peyton and Eli combined for zero national championships. I think that that would actually be a pretty interesting thing if he was like, quote, unquote, the. The Maybe not the most successful, but the highest achieving in the family. It would just take that. Right. And so that being said, you can have a great NFL career, especially with that last name, without doing a ton of winning at the highest level of college football. You can do a lot of participating. You can bring your team to great, great links and everything. But it'd be very funny if he was seen as the winning Manning in college if he, if he, for Texas puts all this together. And I think that Sark is a great coach. I mean, I think he's a great play caller. I've kind of hinted at that, said that in different interviews. I think that we. But this is it for them. I mean, they are unserious. I think that the best thing that the University of Texas could do is band together with Paxton, their attorney General, and take a stand with their brothers at Texas Tech to never play the University of Georgia again. Because if they were able to do that, their path is wide open.

Conor O'Kera Will

Connor, I want to see another Texas, Georgia game.

Paul Feinbaum

Everybody but Texas wants to see.

Conor O'Kera Will

I know, right? Georgia fans want to see it. I'll tell you what, I, I would love to see an SEC championship. As much as I've talked about wanting to see new blood, I, I like seeing these teams battle. I want to see if Texas can get over that. Humphrey. I do think it is a real block for them at this point. Mental, physical, all of it. I think that that would be fascinating to see out on a playoff stage as well. It could. That's the fun thing about the 12 team playoff is that we're more likely to get those matchups than. Than we were in any previous era. And that's fun. And even though they don't play in the regular season, it could play out. But yeah, I mean, watching Texas have one of those years and be back in every sort of way that they've always dreamt of, that would be the exact thing that they signed up for when Arch committed back in. Was it 20, 21 we're talking about here? So I, I don't know that that necessarily happens. If I'm sitting here betting today, I would say it probably doesn't. It's very hard to live up to those expectations and Lord knows Texas has failed to do so at many different turns. But do you have a chance to do these things? Yes. All on the table. That's chaos. Okay. Any other chaos scenarios that you thought of while we were doing this that we need to be able to discuss? I don't know that there's a whole lot within the ACC or Big 12 outside of the ones that we outlined. Outside of a team just having, of course, anything chaotic of like a team that's 101 to win a national championship. Yes. If Arizona wins the national championship, that is indeed chaotic. And you will hear me talk about Noah Fafida. So don't worry if I did not discuss that here today.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, I think the easy, cheap Thing. Exactly. Your point would be like, oh, yeah, like Northwestern makes a run. I think there are two guys that could have how you like me now seasons that aren't ridiculous. That I think would really change things. I think number one is Pete Golding. I think if Pete Golding comes out and just starts punching people in the mouth, suddenly we're talking about a guy who's like on this crazy trajectory as a head coach. Like, we're talking about a Kirby Smart level ascent. If your first couple of games are like national spotlight, you're beaten. Kirby Smart. You're doing all these great things for Ole Miss. You're getting the fundraising together, you're recruiting, you're hitting the Portal. And then we come out and they're just gangbusters. And it's one of those where we're going to feel like prisoners of the moment. If we look back at 10 years and go, wow, you know, how didn't we see this coming? Based on what he's done, not me personally, I'm still a hater. I don't think it's going to happen, but I think that it could do so much to shift the landscape of the sec. What do you think about that?

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, if they beat lsu, I would love to know what that behind the scenes support looks like all of a sudden. And I think the way that they've recruited in the Portal post Lane Kiffin suggests Pete Golding still very much has the approval of those important people, the ones with the deep pockets. But if you beat Lane and all of a sudden you give those very wealthy people in Oxford and in the state of Mississippi more proof of concept to say, hey, this wasn't just a team I inherited. I had to rebuild a lot of this roster. And look what I did on this big time national stage. All these different things, I, I think that only adds to it. You're right. We mapped that out with, you know, a first year coach, you know, getting to an SEC championship, which Pete Golding technically is, even though he got to coach in the playoff last year. But yeah, it would definitely be chaotic. Everybody would be looking at him going, whoa, all right, we got a real big time player in the sec.

Paul Feinbaum

To the people of Oxford, I hope you take all this new avenue and please, for the love of God, invest it in hotels. I've recently bought two trips, one to Monaco and one to Oxford, Mississippi. And which one do you think was cheaper, Connor? Because it's not the one you'd think,

Conor O'Kera Will

wait a minute, you paid more in Oxford than you did in Monaco?

Paul Feinbaum

Yes. They do not have enough hotels there. No, I stayed in Oxford. That's the problem. I to have something that is walkable from the stadium. I am farther away from Vaughning Way stadium and it was more money than having an Airbnb of a similar size in Monaco. Please buy hotels. I want to experience your town.

Conor O'Kera Will

The one time that I've been in Oxford, we were there in 2018. We stayed. I think it was just outside of the city limits. And it was. We had the. The setup through an ad deal and I remembered thinking there are not enough places for people and if they get really, really good, this is probably a huge issue.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah.

Conor O'Kera Will

Being more expensive than Monaco. If you want to tell the average European mind cannot comprehend Saturday in Oxford, Mississippi is more expensive actually than F1 in Monaco. You'd surprise some people. You'd probably. That's wild. I can't believe that.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah. And obviously our take on this is like, hey, Ole Miss is going to be better than LSU this year, I think. And so if we do end up, you know, that game not going our way, if we've had a couple, we're gonna want to walk to Airbnb. I don't think taking an Uber to Memphis is something we want to do after that game. But anyway, I digress. That would be very interesting. And I won't say I'm rooting for it, but it would be. It would be interesting to me. The other one is, of course, our good friend Dabo. If our good friend Dabo puts a run together this year to again, silence Tyler from Spartanburg. Like, you need to start writing stuff about him right now because last year it didn't quite work. You know, the graphic got to him and everything, but he still wasn't good last year. I think he needs some more haterade because I think that, you know what Clemson is about. The only team. I'll say the Clemson. The sport is better with Clemson in it because I love the hate Clemson. I love to hate Clemson. I love their Little Miss paint logo. I love their stupid colors. I love that they have like, so similar traditions to LSU and Auburn. I want to see Dabo talking about the parables of whatever when they're like, like nine and one with a loss to, like pit or something. It's funny to me. I. I want, like, I'm. I'm actually kind of tired of reading against them. I'm starting to feel bad for them.

Conor O'Kera Will

Well, what are you saying that you didn't enjoy last year wasn't a fun time for you?

Paul Feinbaum

Oh, well, personally, that was the only bright spot in my. My year was beating clubs, and they became terrible after that.

Conor O'Kera Will

So, no, personally, I. I thought last year ruled, but, you know, I guess

Paul Feinbaum

we need to go back and forth. That's what we need. We need 11 wins, four wins every other year to where we think we got old Dabo figured out. He has some ass in the pocket for us.

Conor O'Kera Will

I left Dabo out because I think I include him in chaos scenario every single year. And at this point, it's just kind of an evergreen chaos scenario of more so that Dabo is just gonna step down and that he's just had enough. Who could ever think of a chaotic. A chaotic scenario in which Chad Morris tanks Clemson even further than what they were at in 2025.

Paul Feinbaum

Chad Morris Broyles award.

Conor O'Kera Will

Oh, my God. Anyway, that is a chaos scenario, Clemson being back.

Paul Feinbaum

Let's.

Conor O'Kera Will

Let's have that conversation. Is Clemson back? That's got to be the new one. There's always got to be at least one that we throw out there, and we've kind of gotten over the two biggest ones of Texas and Miami. We can't say that anymore. Is Clemson back?

Matt Berry

Let's just.

Conor O'Kera Will

Every single time they win an ACC game, let's just ask that question.

Paul Feinbaum

Oh, yeah, dude, they're playing October 3rd this year. Oh, yeah. Clemson comes out, just smashes Miami. Man, that would be so funny.

Conor O'Kera Will

Clemson beats Pitt Saturday afternoon. ACC network. It's so gray in Pittsburgh. Crowd is half full. Is Clemson back? Some people are wondering, all right, Gabo comes out.

Paul Feinbaum

I got a little cafe sito in me. It's called the Holy Spirit.

Conor O'Kera Will

Oh, gosh. Please don't take what Miami has done with caffeine. We are big caffeine, caffeine fans on the show. Please don't take what Miami has done and turn it into a Clemson thing. Do not clemsify this.

Paul Feinbaum

Okay?

Conor O'Kera Will

Clemson fans. Don't turn it into some AI thing that you guys are doing to defend Dabo. So that's just all the rage these days. Let Miami have its caffeine. Stay away from that. Stay away. All right, let's kick it to Matt Berry. Matt's going to become an even bigger fixture for SEC fans with doing SEC Nation. Now, you've been seeing him on your televisions for more than a decade now, and he's been absolutely everywhere. So we talk about, about that. A little Sam Levitt, some big ten SEC talk, and a whole lot more. So here is Matt Berry now, excited to be joined by a very special guest. It Is the new host of SEC Nation and perhaps still the future host of Wheel of Fortune. Not ruling out. We're not ruling out. It is Matt Berry. Matt, let's start right there. Have you processed the irony of Wheel of Fortune now having a Georgia grad, sort of Ryan Seacrest and now an Arizona State grad is hosting SEC Nation?

Matt Berry

Yeah, how about that? Like, it's funny how the world works when you kind of dig into to the, the connectivity to the, the jobs that you're hosting. But it, it, look, see, like I've said before, Seacrest has every job in America. He needs to leave some for some of us. So we're in the same company, abc. So I'm gonna, you know, he's doing idle and all that, so I'm gonna try to get a hold of him. You're like, bro, if you ever need to fill in for Wheel of Fortune, Fortune. He couldn't fill in on SEC Nation or college game day or even college football final. But I'm pretty positive I could just knock out Wheel of Fortune.

Conor O'Kera Will

I'm positive too. You could definitely do that. And you know, it's interesting because I think you're the first non fill in host of SEC Nation who did not go to an SEC school. And I say that because Marty Smith, when he was filling in for Laura Rubbish. When she was on maternity leave, 2019. Marty's obviously, he's a Radford College graduation, Radford University and you know, didn't go there. But it is a unique perspective and you could take it from someone who, like, like myself, I did not go to an SEC school and I predominantly talk about the sec. There are still great benefits to it of being able to come in with that perspective. But just so that the audience has something that they can hold on to and say, like, oh, that guy's a homer. Which SEC school will you be the biggest homer for?

Matt Berry

Well, okay, so a couple things. One, Joe Tacitor actually launched the show when it, when it launched SEC Nation. He's not an SEC grad. So the actual first host of the show didn't go to an SEC school. So I think Testator kind of set the precedent. But you see the South Carolina Gamecock helmet right there. My wife is a South Carolina Gamecock graduate, so she went to the University of South Carolina. So she, she's a graduate, she's a Gamecock. And I worked my local tv. I worked for three years in Columbia when Steve Sprayer was the head coach there. Right. You know, it was my first taste of the sec. It's funny enough because all my local TV stop South Carolina and Columbia and then I was in Oklahoma obviously pre SEC for the Oklahoma Sooners. Then I was in Dallas pre SEC for Texas. So I've been in the SEC markets. I think that's kind of the beauty of not being the SEC grad but SEC connections because you can't be accused of, of being a homer as a host, right? Like you don't have a, an allegiance to any of the schools. You just have a broad knowledge of college football and you know, every Saturday. I've been in studio now on Saturday with Joey and the fellas for seven plus years and just about everything we talk about there as well. SEC related, college football finals, same thing's always been SEC related and you know, the Big 12 is obviously a story and ACC and all of that, but the SEC continues with its dominance leading into the College Football Playoff. It will always be the storyline. So I'll try not to homer for anyone. I think it's just the responsibility of the job. But I will get pressure at home to be a little nicer to South Carolina and the Gamecocks.

Conor O'Kera Will

Beamer's the best too.

Matt Berry

I love, he's great. He, we caught up in Destin at the spring meetings and he's always fun to catch up with. We'll, we'll shoot each other attacks a time or two. So I really enjoy him. I think he's done a remarkable job. I think he'd be the first one to tell you that last year didn't live up to the expectations based on the talent that was on the field. And I'd be stunned if they had another season like they had last year.

Conor O'Kera Will

Better question then for you, which SEC school that you have not been to are you most looking forward to very likely going to this year?

Matt Berry

Yes, I've been on this circuit since being named host and been asked that. That question. I've never been to Auburn so I'm looking forward to heading there just, just the War Eagle and, and Tumor's Corner and all of that. So I'm looking forward to seeing what Auburn's all about. And this one's probably the most shocking one that I've never, I've been to most of them because like I said in my time, not only in Columbia, because I was there for Steve Spurrier's first year. So the market was so excited to have and we traveled quite a bit on the road with them that those first couple of years. So I've been to most of Them. But the one that I haven't been to, maybe a bit surprising, is Athens. I've never been to Athens, Georgia, and so I'm looking forward to that. But even in my time at ESPN Sports center on the road in Tuscaloosa, I've been to Knoxville, I've been to Gainesville numerous times. I've been to Starkville, I've been to Ole Miss, I've been to Baton Rouge, I've been to Austin, I've been to Norman. I've been to most of them. But I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to see Auburn and Athens.

Conor O'Kera Will

If you could just close your eyes and just. Just draw up a college town. I think it's Athens. Like, I think Athens is. Is tremendous. And it. It gives me so much of that. Like, man, I like. I don't know how people could go on a visit there, either as a prospective student or as an athlete and not just pick there on the spot. Like, I think it's. It's that picturesque that's. That's a good choice to lead with.

Paul Feinbaum

So.

Matt Berry

And look, I. I've also. I've thought that about Tuscaloosa. I think Tuscaloosa is a phenomenal college town. The restaurants, the bar scene, the proximity to campus, the stadium. Look, that's one of the great things about this job. 2014 was my first taste of it at ESPN. It was doing SportsCenter on the road. We actually took the show to Tuscaloosa when then number four, Dak Press, or then number one, Dak Prescott, Mississippi State, traveled on the road to take on number four, Alabama. And we did the show from there. And we. We did the show leading into college game day. So I had the college game day crowd behind me. It was kind of my first sense of what it's all about. And then after that, we would take the show on the road in 15 and 16 to Knoxville, in some of these other spots. And you really. I got to do basically the whole SEC tour then, and you just. You really got a sense of how great these towns are, and that's what separates college football from the NFL. You go. And. I mean, even the Big Ten. My first job out of college was in Wisconsin, so I used to drive to Madison all the time in those early kickoffs. But there's just something special about these college towns and these. The connectivity that the university has to the town and the restaurants and the libraries and the bookstores and the. Everything, the coffee shops, the smells, the sights, everything. And that's what makes this job so great is that, you know, every Saturday leading, going through the, the SEC championship in Atlanta, we'll be able to bring that home to, to the viewers again.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, in a lot of ways. I mean, you have been everywhere. You've, you've done so many different things. Even though, like you said, you've done the studio thing on Saturdays for, for so long. But yeah, yeah, I mean, your experience I, I think is for ESPN just in general has been really, really versatile and the types of shows that you've done. And then you've also, you know, been able to do the Sunday pod with Paul and that's become a staple of, of what you do. You know, you've got all these different things including, you know, golf and TGL that you've been involved in. Take us through the process of hearing that our friend Laura Rutledge was going to be leaving and this could be something that you could add to your already very loaded workload.

Matt Berry

Yeah, so look, Laura, she's kind of the perfect example. She did the show for a decade and kind of gave it the legacy that it has now. But also from her perspective, what she's been able to do, she kind of became who she is because of the growth through SEC Nation and doing the sidelines. I mean, I remember talking to her in 2018 when she was here and she was just here in Bristol in 2018. She was literally here to shadow Sports center because she was full time SEC Network just in case, you know, we needed somebody fill in. Well, at the time, my co anchor, L. Duncan was getting ready to go on maternity leave to have her first baby. And I said, hey, let's, let's just have her hop in with me during the week if she's available and get her some reps. That was in 2018. And look what she's doing now. I mean, she's on Monday Night Football, she's the face of NFL Live, a two time Emmy award winner back to back. And so, you know, at some point she's, she's, she's grown into this, this star that, that's become an NFL face and with always having her SEC roots and college football roots. And so it was one of those things where when, you know, we're getting the super bowl this year, which is, as you know, the marquee in sports. So to be able to have her kind of sink her teeth into that and do what she's always done. And so the, the opportunity arose and you know, one of the biggest things for me is, is I had such Respect and. And revered college football Final because it was the show of record for me in college football growing up. I mean, I used to watch Reese, Mark and Lou every week, my show of record, because, you know, I'd walk, wake up and watch game day. And then you. You know, and when I was working in local tv, I would have to go cover the team in. In the market that day. So I was only focused on one game because it's all my schedule would allow. But then I would come home and watch Final, and I thought that was the greatest show ever. And so that's been the hardest part of all of this, is leaving Joey and the guys in studio because I've done that show now, I think for sure, seven, maybe eight years, and leaving that show, which I absolutely love doing, was the hardest part. But I'm also one of those people that believe, like, growth is good, even if it takes you away from something that you love. And I think that's kind of not speaking for Laura. You know, she and I are good friends, but I think taking her away from something she loves, which was this show, SEC Nation to go grow in the NFL. I mean, I think that's just a natural breaking point for everybody. And we do that all the time. We're faced with these decisions all the time. Well, there's this opportunity here. Okay, well, is it better than what I'm doing now, or is it something that. And you. Do you think about these things. But at the end of the day, from. From doing SportsCenter on the road for all those years and being at these SEC campuses, I knew what it was like and I knew what it was all about. And I knew that this would be an opportunity to grow, do the show on the road, stick around, and do the halftimes from inside the stadium. So I still get my halftime itch that I've been doing for so long. And so I think at the end of the day, when the. The they approached me and the conversation started happening, I just think, look, you know, I've been at ESPN for 13 years. I've done a lot of things, and this will just be. And kind of the other thing, too. It's the only show that's like college game day at the network, right? There's only one college game day, and that'll. There will always only be one college game day. However, this is kind of the next best thing to it. I just. I wanted my opportunity to be able to. To go on the road and continue the legacy that Laura's built. And Maria before Her and then Joe Tess when he launched it.

Conor O'Kera Will

You talk about being at ESPN for, for 13 years and we've talked about this a little bit before, but you know, new context is important. I can think of a couple other places that do both college football and golf. How close did you get to leaving espn?

Matt Berry

Yeah, you know, there were definitely some, some intense conversations that were going on because those are my two passions. And at the end of the day, I think when you weigh the options again, like we were just talking about a moment ago, you're like, okay, what, where is best suited for me to continue to grow now? Do you hop at that shiny toy when your contract is up? Because they're saying all the right things. Because when you're talking to other networks when your deal's up, mind you, that's, that's a recruiting pitch. You know that that's a pitch from another network that's like, hey, we can offer you this, this and this, it all sounds great. They're not really recruiting you to stay at ESPN because you're, you've been there, you're, you're family with them. You know how it works. You know everyone there and you've got a relationship and you've got a built in support system there. And so at the end of the day when, when you weigh it and you look at the known versus the unknown and where you eventually want to be in your career, I think that, that ESPN continued to, to be the market leader in it. And, and, and I'm so happy that I stayed when my deal was up a couple years ago.

Conor O'Kera Will

So to answer the question, close, close. Just it's, it. Look, those opportunities are, you're right though, because it's hard there. And there are a lot of people who have been able to, to go on and lev ESPN and do really, really good things. I think Maria is a great example of this.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah.

Conor O'Kera Will

In Torico. And like you're watching like I'm sitting there watching Maria do the Olympics coverage and I'm like, yeah, dang man. Like, it's not to say that she wouldn't have had great opportunities had she stayed, but.

Paul Feinbaum

Right.

Conor O'Kera Will

It isn't so black and white. And I do think it's a relevant question for people. Not just the, the awful announcing crowds of the world, but for people like yourself that want to do a lot of different things and feel like, man, I've got like a real opportunity here where I could. There are a lot of different, different directions. This is a fork in the road type moment in my life. And I think it's relevant and I think it's cool that you've decided. Look, I, I think this is the best path for me.

Matt Berry

Yeah. And you don't want to make decisions just based on money and like the raw. You don't want to make decisions for the wrong reason. You know, you don't want to run away from something. Something. You know, you want to run to something. And I just didn't think at the time, I mean, this obviously could change, but at the time it just, it wasn't right. And I knew that I was more seduced by the flattery of what was being thrown our way rather than the realization that, hey, like, you gotta really. I've had a sports center home for over a decade. You know, I've always had a sports center home. And what I mean by that is a consistent sports center show that I host. You know, I, I was thrown an enormous opportunity with TGL to do a TV startup, which those don't exist anymore. We literally created a game. And so I was, I was thrown that opportunity. And so just little by little, it's like, you know what? This is actually pretty cool. And I do the Masters every year. I do the PGA Championship every year. I hosted the show of record in college football. It was good. I mean, it's a good, It's a good portfolio. And, and you, you don't run just to run. You run because what you're running to is better than where you're at. And that, that wasn't the case.

Conor O'Kera Will

I have a request. And it. Look, this, this can't be forced, but you have enough of a rapport with Paul, having done the Sunday pods with him for, for, for years now. We need a new leave the sides moment.

Paul Feinbaum

We.

Conor O'Kera Will

We need. And look again, that was so organic. And for those who don't know what I'm talking about, the very famous Marty Smith, Marcus Spears, Tim Tebow, Paul Feinbaum, SEC Nation clip, wherein they just. It's one minute of pure comic gold. And all you do, all you have to do right now is Google leave the sides. If you don't know what I'm talking about. We need something like that. Because I think you have to be in the right place with Paul to kind of get that out of him or to at least allow him to absorb something like that. I think you're capable of, of being able to, to give us that.

Matt Berry

Yeah, the word you use there too, that was, Was operative. Was organic. I mean, those moments. I mean, Paul, Paul and I have done SportsCenter for 10, 11 years together, maybe longer. And so he used to, to come in on Sunday mornings and do. Because I used to do the Sunday morning show and we would have those organic moments all the time that you didn't know were coming. There was the one where the Mark Richt season at Miami where they started off, I think 70 or something like that, and he put on the, the turnover chain and declared that the U was back and he threw it on. He started doing this dance. Well, none of us knew that was coming. But organic TV moments are, are, are the best there are. And it's, and by the way, it's done and it happens because the people that you're on set with trust everybody, you know, and then that's, that's how that stuff goes down is like if there's this comfort with everyone that you're sitting with on set and everyone knows one another and that we all have each other's backs, those moments are going to happen because everybody knows inherently everyone's on the same page in the same team.

Conor O'Kera Will

Let's talk a little ball. This is definitely the first time that we've ever seen an established Arizona State quarterback leave under some kind of weird circumstances, transfer to a new coaching staff at lsu. Never been done before. What are your thoughts on the preseason discussion surrounding Sam Levitt and will he be Jaden Daniels 2.0?

Matt Berry

Yeah, look, I mean, Jaden Daniels 2.0 is interesting. He's also an Arizona State grad or Arizona State guy that, that, that got his, got his.

Conor O'Kera Will

Oh yeah, he is, isn't he? Yeah.

Matt Berry

Jaden had a remarkable year from Herm Edwards. He knocked Oregon out of the playoffs, kind of regressed a little bit. And just the, the time in Tempe, he had three years there. The time in Tempe just kind of didn't end on the right note and he wanted to get a fresh start. Now at the time I was, I was stunned. I was thinking, well, you know, at the time Jaden had been struggling at asu, would he be able to pick up a Brian Kelly offense in Baton Rouge in the sec and boy, did he prove everybody wrong on his way to a Heisman Trophy. But is one of those players where, you know, Kenny Dillingham got him from Michigan State and when he brought him in from Michigan State, he was competing for the starting job of the player. A five star named Jaden Rashada who had committed to about five other schools, landed on Arizona State and Jade net a live arm and he was going to be a great player. But then Jaden got hurt, didn't really participate in school spring ball, and Sam kind of grabbed the job and led ASU to a college football playoff berth. And Kenny's great at that. He's a quarterback whisperer, so to speak. And he had a lot of Jake Plummer in him, and he had a lot of that in that special knack for the moment. He, you know, he had some injuries off the field that I think probably weren't the best timing last year. And so for him to believe that he was going to get a fresh start in Baton Rouge, I'm sure. Well, not. I'm sure the money that LSU is able to offer relative to what ASU is able to offer wasn't going to be comparable. And so he gets a fresh start with another guy that's really damn good with quarterbacks and Lane Kiffin. And so from that perspective of going somewhere that fits, I mean, that's. That was a pretty smart choice for him. It is a really smart choice for Lane Kiffin because I've seen the best of Sam Levitt and it's really damn good. And so just because of that, I mean, look what Lane does with quarterbacks. We know, look no further than Trinidad Shambliss and what he did with him a year ago. I mean, if he, if he taps Sam's potential like Kenny was able to do, I mean, LSU is going to be a hell of a team. They're already loaded. You get Sam playing at his peak. I mean, I look at him at a quarterback loaded sec, He's. He's as good as any of them.

Conor O'Kera Will

It is kind of frustrating, I bet, for Arizona State right now to be in this spot where you hit right on the young coach. That was seen as a roll of the dice. You got to the College Football Playoff. You, you know, had the, the marquee quarterback and, you know, still Kenny Dillingham is out here looking for people with deeper pockets to step up and say, like, look, we. We need more money.

Matt Berry

We.

Conor O'Kera Will

Where's our billionaire? Like, we, we need this, this type of thing to get to that next level. Has Kenny reached out to you being like, Matt, look, I know you're a big J, but you're also big time. Can you, can you help us out? Like, if. Has he been willing to, like, have those conversations with you, or is that, like, a line that he's not going to cross with anybody in media?

Matt Berry

Yeah, no, I, I don't know. The people connected to the program have reached out about it. Kenny and I have more Conversations about the program in general and about using the ESPN platform to help shine a light on asu. And, and he's smart about that. And we talk about players and I'll call him. And you know, during the Michigan thing, I was, I was blowing up, blowing him up during those unfounded Michigan rumors. And he's, he's. Look, the thing with ASU is, is there was the playoff year which was one of the great runs that I think that the ASU grads and will ever experience. And but it is, it's, it's the, it's the blessing and the curse because we got Relique Brown from usc, who was a five star running back out of the transfer portal that just didn't really get an opportunity that he liked at usc. We were patient with him. He was injured as first year and then last year, the year after Cam Scatter Boo becomes the best back in the Big 12. Well then what happens? Well, we don't have Texas's pockets either. And so Texas is able to come in and grab Relique. And good for Relique and good for Sark because Sark and Texas are absolutely loaded. And so that's kind of one of the, the, the, the pluses and minuses of college football. The pluses are that, you know, Sam and Relique, you know, I'll be at their third transfer, we're able to go where they wanted. But the minuses are that they, the teams in the schools that gave them the opportunity to develop into great players were left behind. And by the way that, you know, when you look back, you, when people were saying, well, is Arizona State belonging the playoff? Could they compete? They, they should have beat Texas. If you look back at that, they, they should have won that game. And so the answer is yes. I mean, could we have handled Ohio State the week after? Probably not. But the point being is that schools like that do belong and can succeed in that format. And so there just has to be a way at some point where everyone can succeed and kind of be in the same world financially, almost salary cap driven so that the haves and the have nots are such big swings.

Conor O'Kera Will

But Matt, I was told by Steve Sarkeesian that Texas doesn't take all transfer credits and therefore it's really hard for them to get transfers and their unlimited pockets have nothing to do with it. And we should all just feel bad for Texas and their woes when it comes to recruiting talent.

Matt Berry

God bless Sark, though I, I've said this forever in college football. I think the two best jobs in the country now in terms of resources and program stature, alumni base and reach. I think Ohio State and Texas are the two best. And I don't think it's particularly close.

Conor O'Kera Will

I just, I would have one, I would add Georgia to that. I would add Georgia. I think that's the top three.

Matt Berry

Yeah, Georgia is definitely up there. But those, those two, in terms of size of university, the billionaires that are trotting around Texas and Columbus, I mean they're, they're, they're far reaching. I mean it's, it's insane. And so Texas was always one of those jobs when I, when I was in Dallas and Mack Brown had his thing going. We would always say about Mac, Texas doesn't recruit, they select because it's that kind of job. And you're right, Georgia is that kind of job. There's a ton of resources there. But I still believe pockets and size wise and athletic department budget wise and everything in between. I think Texas and Ohio State

Paul Feinbaum

long

Matt Berry

ago separated themselves, but there are some other jobs that, that do have. I was doing something for, for Texas AGS the other day and I said that about Texas A M, the pockets that are at A M and the talent that's in that area. I mean, Mike Elkos just scratched the surface there. I mean, he really has. I, I, I believe now this year Marcel's back. They've got some holes on the offensive and defensive line that they're gonna have to work through, but I think Elko is going to have Texas A and M in the playoff conversation every year, which they should be. I think Sark's got the most talented team in the country. You know, I think Georgia with Gunner, Stockton, I mean the talent right now that's coming back in the sec, that's going to have to go get the Big Ten because they've won three consecutive national championships. It's going to be an interesting watch. And you know, Julian saying at Ohio State, Jeremiah Smith, I mean, they're loaded again. It's. This year I think is going to be crazy because the, the biggest storyline other than the Big Ten winning three consecutive national championships is people. Why isn't the SEC if they're so dominant? One, one. Well, one top to bottom, it's, it's a tougher schedule. I mean, I'm friends with Big Ten guys and they'll just tell you that like the schedule's tougher, but not on the record.

Conor O'Kera Will

They won't say that. Brett Bielema in those people. They won't say that on the record, they'll say that off the record and they'll admit that it's like three, really, three or four really tough games. And then like you get into the back end of it. That's the part where I will side with, with some of the sec. But it can't be the excuse for why you're not winning national championships.

Matt Berry

No, it can't.

Paul Feinbaum

No, no.

Matt Berry

Once you, once you get in the bracket, then you need, you need to go. Now I, I will say that Texas last year, they went on a run at the end of the year. Now if they don't schedule Ohio State. Right. If they don't schedule Ohio State and they schedule, oh, I don't know, give me a Power 5. And they, and they schedule NC State and they beat NC State and at that point they're 10 and 2. I mean, do they get in.

Conor O'Kera Will

Yeah, you know, but they also, there's also reward. You know, like there's.

Matt Berry

You're right. There's absolutely a reward to that. There's no question about it. But it's just, it is you to, to your point, there's a, there's a reward to a win. But now this year is going to be interesting too, because the SEC for the first time playing nine conference games. All right, so you're telling me because who used to be the doormat of

Conor O'Kera Will

the SEC every year used to be Vanderbilt.

Matt Berry

There you go.

Conor O'Kera Will

Has still probably Kentucky.

Matt Berry

Kentucky, Vanderbilt on the Mississippi State, unless it was the Dan Mullen era was another doormat. But Levy's got that thing on the Will Stein. It's. But even Mark Stoops at Kentucky was doing things Kentucky hadn't seen. So the, the bottom teams started to mess with the big teams. You know, we brought up Shane Beamer in South Carolina with a little 4 and 8 last year. They were considered one of the worst teams in the sec. I don't see that last lasting long. Arkansas, they had a bad year. They bring in Ryan Silverfield, they have no one realizes how much money is in Arkansas. Like if you could get that thing going again and so could you make that argument. And I don't mean to pick on schools, but could you make the Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Kentucky argument, Could you make that argument for Rutgers or could you make that argument for Purdue or could you make that argument for some of these schools? Now, if you want to throw Indiana at me, that's the perfect rebuttal is like, well, it happened in Indiana and yeah, you can do it, but you just got to find the Right. Coach and Kurt Signetti and a guy that can develop talent better than anyone in the country because he had to go to Indiana, who we didn't know had the pockets they had until they really committed. And to me, that's one of the great coaching jobs in the history of the sport.

Conor O'Kera Will

As an Indiana grad, you're speaking my love language right now, and I certainly appreciate that. You realize your alma mater is kind of the reason why that take exists is because of what Arizona State did last year at Mississippi State. And then Mississippi State goes 1 and 8 in conference play, has competitive games against teams that we view through the lens of the SEC as mattering. Like, like Texas. Mississippi State should have beat Texas Intransitive property then favors that. And all of a sudden it makes the SEC feel like it still has the argument as the deepest conference. And I still believe that to be the case. It's just interesting that, like, Mississippi State is now viewed as that team that can illustrate that point for all these different SEC teams. And it's, it's fascinating. And look, I agree with you. I think, like, there's, there are so many juicy storylines, like, going into the season, and because there is more parity within the SEC that I think is creating a conference that feels like it's a little bit all over the place. And that's just maybe the way that we're going to have to accept college football being like, the fact that Indiana did what it did last year. It's not that we're going to expect things like that to happen, but we could just see this, this, this shrinking gap. And I don't know what that means for the next five, 10 years, but in terms of right now, it means that all we're talking about chaos scenarios today, earlier in the pod, it means there are a whole lot more of them than I think what we could have forecasted near years past.

Matt Berry

When I just, I just said that about Purdue. Like, Barry Odom's a hell of a football coach. What if there's a couple of benefactors there that are like, hey, let's, let's make a run at this. I mean, it can happen anywhere. Like, Indiana going into the season was the second losing his program in the history of the sport. Like, since we've kicked off on Saturdays. In the history of the sport, they were the second worst and they were the most dominant team in the country last year. Like, that doesn't happen in any. Like that. That just shouldn't happen. And now because of the way of the world, it can and you know, look, the Big Ten, I'll tell you this, the Big Ten desperately needs USC to be relevant again. They just absolutely need USC to be relevant again. They absolutely need Wisconsin to be. I mean Wisconsin people forgetting to Brett beat them up. Three consecutive Big Ten championships went to the Rose Bowl. You need Wisconsin to be really good at football. You need Matt Campbell to keep Penn State at Penn State. You need Kyle Whittingham to do his magic at Michigan. Like you need some of these other schools. You need Nebraska. Think about the conversation of college football in the late 80s and early 90s. Doesn't exist without Tom Osborne in. Nebraska is arguably the preeminent program in a country. Country. Matt Rule, like, wait, Nebraska, like there are, there's an opportunity now for the Big Ten if some of those schools that I just mentioned work their way up into relevance. Now we're having a conversation. Now we're having a conversation. If Chesney at UCLA gets that thing going like now, now we're, we're starting to discuss. Oh, look at this. And, and I just think that at the end of the day, and that's why this conversation of do teams succeed and or conferences to seed into their own thing. Well, the NFL is how many teams? 32. Well, 18 and 16. Big 10 and SEC make that 34 at 32 team model works pretty nicely. So don't be naive to the fact that they're not discussing that a 34 team league would, would also work pretty handsomely.

Conor O'Kera Will

I want to go back to something you said you were hitting up. You were hitting up Kenny Dillingham and being like, hey, look, don't Michigan. I know that job is great. What were those text messages like to Kenny Dillingham?

Matt Berry

Well, he got, he got smart after a while. Just quit answering me because I was just like, dude, you know, and then he finally, he finally. We had talked briefly after. He's like, man, you really thought I was leaving? Like, did you really think I was, you know, sort of breaking my balls about it? But yeah, I think Kenny's where he needs to be because we, I've talked about this with a lot of coaches and Kenny just being, being one of them, that, that you never quite strike the relationship if you're succeeding at your alma mater. Like, like he's, he can win there, he can win every year there. He can win the Big 12 there every year if he wants to. In terms of like, you're never going to be a one hit wonder at Arizona State if you keep it going the way he's kept it going. I mean, last year, we've got injuries. Sam gets hurt. We've, you know, Scatterboo's gone, but Sam gets hurt. Jordan Tyson gets hurt. We're still in the conversation to win back to back Big 12 championships. And so at the end of the day, that's home. He grew up in Scottsdale. It'd be different if you were in Arizona State. Alum. And you were from Texas. Well, yeah, you're an alum, but you're not home. I mean, he's home. And so for him to be with his family and everywhere, live where he grew up, be the king of town and lead ASU to a playoff. And I expect them now, especially with Brendan Swartsby being gone, I expect them now to be again one of the teams to compete with in the Big 12. And I'm glad he stayed. I'm glad that I was able to bother him about staying along with a bunch of other ASU alums. But at the end of the day, coaches are going to do what's best for them and their family. And he still believes that ASU is the best for him and his family.

Conor O'Kera Will

As a graduate of a Big 12 school, even though you didn't attend the school that was in the Big 12 at the time, how over Texas Tech are you right now?

Matt Berry

Oh, man, we did that show story for a month on SportsCenter. I mean, I think we led with it. We led with it all week this week and most of last week. But, yeah, the fact that there's finally some. Some conclusion to it on. On June was that 15th. And now we can just get out of it and go into the summer and regroup and start talking college football. The right thing ended up happening. Like, it ended up being the right thing for everyone. For Texas Tech, for Brendan, for the Texas Tech football program, like, for the university. Like, the right thing ended up happening and you just, you can't. You can't gamble on the sport you play. You just can't. It's rule number one. I know Brendan, he went to rehab for it. I, I'm very respectful of all of that. I'm very sympathetic to all of that. But you still broke a rule. You still did something you're not supposed to do. And now if Texas Tech wanted to do what they were saying we wanted, we want to support the student athlete, make sure that he's okay, you could have done that and not let him play. And so what ended up happening with Brendan saying, you know what? And I don't know Look, I don't think we'll ever know who was in on that decision like completely. And if it was Brendan's complete decision, then good for him. If the university went to the football program is like, we're not dealing with this. This is way too much, way too much black eye on our university. We're not doing it. You should probably move on then. Good for the university. But end of the day, the right outcome happened.

Conor O'Kera Will

Last one for you. I just want you to be able to, to give a little love to your former, your former co host. I don't know if you call Dan Mullen a co host, but co, you know, co worker, colleague, your guy, seeing what he did last year at UNLV after he was spending, you know, falls with you, well, how satisfying was that to be able to like sit back and watch him and, and watch him just rack up wins and still be very, very good at this and still have kind of this, this second wind coaching college football.

Matt Berry

I'm just telling you that if Dan Mullen wants to go to a big time university and win big in a big league again, he's absolutely still one of the best offensive minds in the country. If he wanted to. Like, I know he had flirtations from other schools, I know he did. But the thing that, about Dan, that, that's, I love hearing him say it. He's just having fun right now. He's having fun. And for a coach who do the SEC grinder for so long at Mississippi State, building them by the way, again, they were ranked number one at one point. And then Florida, to be in that cauldron for so long takes a toll on you. And he goes to unlv, they win double digit games, they're playing for the conference champions championship. Their offense is just, was so much fun to watch. He's like, man, I'm just having fun. I'm having fun again. And then that's, that's the thing is like you talk to a lot of these coaches, I don't really know how much fun they're having, you know, because it's just a different world now. They'll all tell you that and they all know they're sickos. I mean that's just, that's who they are. And, and they're, they're wired to love that kind of thing. And, and so to be able to see Dan have fun and be on the sidelines and call ball plays and still get upset at his players, but laugh off an interception from Calandria or whatever and just kind of Take to it. It's been fun to watch because I like, I got him right after the Florida stuff, you know. And so I, I there, there was a lot there because of, of this, this con, this, this misinterpretation of him not being able to recruit. And so at the end of the day, for him to be able to get back in, take a job where people are like, well, why would you go to unlv? Well, he proved why he wanted to go to unlv and I think they're going to do it again this year. I mean, imagine if and when he gets Jackson Arnold playing at a high

Conor O'Kera Will

level at quarterback, kind of excited for that.

Matt Berry

Like I'm some stump telling you, think about that for a minute. Like if he wants to. And UNOB goes on a run again this year, which I think they will because they're pretty stacked offensively. If he wanted to go to a school that was like, you want to come back in, you know, you want to, he would do it and he would succeed. And that's not a knock on human lv. I mean, it's just, it is what it is. There's, there's unov, which is a really good group of five. Then there's going to be a big school that eventually is going to come all in and whether he wants to do it or not going to be up to him. But yeah, watching him see getting back in. But it was funny. He was still text us on Saturdays. He would FaceTime us from the west coast knowing damn well we were getting ready to do college football final. And we're sitting there on set. He's out there having a, a postgame beverage, enjoying the UNLV win. I'm like, man, your life, your life got pretty good. We're sitting here getting ready to grind through the A block of college football final and you're sitting there having a celebratory cocktail. Good Friday for you.

Conor O'Kera Will

Why would Dan Mullen take the UNLV job? Look at this FaceTime right now. This will tell you everything that you

Matt Berry

need, by the way. No state income, no state income tax. It's, it's a re resourced program which a lot of people don't realize. And you can have fun because the pressure there isn't what it is in other places. Like if you're winning, they love you. If you're losing, they're just doing something else. You know what, what coach doesn't want want that.

Conor O'Kera Will

There are a lot of places that would make sense for him if they have another one of those years. Sometimes even the place where he might have spent a decade just. Just throwing it out there, just, you know, look there.

Matt Berry

Well, no, I don't. Where he does. You know, coaches are pretty smart. If you had success at one place that doesn't typically have success, to try to go back and repeat that. I mean, you just. You. You leave. You. You leave. What's that?

Conor O'Kera Will

Look at the Big 12. Look at Scott Frost right now. Look at Rich Rod at West Virginia. It's like the new thing in the Big 12. I'm. I'm. I'm just saying.

Matt Berry

No, you're. You're not. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. There are examples of it, and it's just. It's. There will be at some point a school like, look, I'm telling you, he was. There were teams flirting with him this year. Year, but he's having fun. And some of these jobs are like, oh, you would have killed it there, you know, so it's. It's fun to see him succeed again. We had a great conversation the other day, and it's good to see him happy again, enjoying coaching football. I thought he was really damn good on tv. He was, but. But I think he's even better on the sidelines because that offensive mind, like, being able to sit next to him for two years and call Thursday night football with him and hear him how he sees a play, breaks down a play, understands a play. I mean, it was. It was you know, basically a master's degree in. In learning how coaches see things. I. I got better because of it, and I think he got better because we would make fun of him, and I would specifically make fun of him. Like, dude, if you. This is when he was working at tv, I'm like, man, if you get back in, just relax a little bit more. Quit being so paranoid. You coaches are so paranoid about everything. And he was just. Now we're not. I'm like, hey, you just relax, you know, So I don't think he would publicly admit it, but I. I know that. That maybe he listened to his. His media friends a little bit more this time around.

Conor O'Kera Will

It's why I wish Gus Malzan had taken a few years off and just done media and just kind of reset and then have this second wind. And instead, like, I think he got burned out. And I think he would have really benefited from kind of following the Dan Mullen path. And, you know, I'm. I'm excited to see where this next chapter goes. Excited to see where your next chapter goes. Too.

Matt Berry

I appreciate that, man. Yeah, it is good for them to, to get out because again, you're just, you're in that burner for so long that and, and any coach will tell you this, won't, won't tell you this. Rather that I believe that if you're in a, in a high pressure job and it doesn't work out and you have to go and you immediately go somewhere else, I don't think that it's gonna, I don't think it's gonna work out because I don't think you've given yourself the time to have closure on why it didn't work out at your big time job.

Paul Feinbaum

Agreed.

Matt Berry

You know, you know like for Dan to get out for two and a half years to just get out and self scout and figure out and let the, the sting and the hurt of what, like that's just natural for anything for anyone. But if you go from a pressure cooker, like if you go like I'm thinking Kevin Sumlin, if someone goes from Texas A M where he was the chosen one for a while, didn't work out at the end and goes right to Arizona like you're never, you never get that time back to regroup of why it didn't work. And so I'm with you on Gus. He's still a great offensive mind. I'd still love him to have him do media pace.

Conor O'Kera Will

Checkout is offered by your banks and credit unions. So when you shop online at participating merchants, your cards appear in one place, ready to use and kept up to date. And the best part, your actual card number isn't shared when you check out

Paul Feinbaum

because boundaries are healthy.

Conor O'Kera Will

Like no work emails after six. Once more small step for boundaries. One big leap for checkout pace.

Paul Feinbaum

It checks out.

Conor O'Kera Will

Activation required. See pays.com to learn more. Terms and conditions apply. Maybe, maybe very, very soon. Could be, could be joining you could be coming to an SEC Nation set. I'm sure you guys will have many of those great, great guests that are going to be just all over campuses and whatnot. And I look forward to being able to watch you guys. I know you guys have a lot of fun with that show. It's going to be great to see on the desk there. Everyone check out Matt on SEC Nation. Seemingly every other ESPN show. Is there any other ESPN show that we didn't? We got tgl, we got Sports center,

Paul Feinbaum

we got college football.

Conor O'Kera Will

No more Thursday night stuff.

Matt Berry

So I'm doing Thursdays again.

Conor O'Kera Will

Wait, you're still doing Thursday stuff?

Matt Berry

I'm still calling Thursday Night college football.

Conor O'Kera Will

Oh, my gosh.

Matt Berry

I can't. I can't give you any more secrets to the. The Thursday night college football setup. But I will be calling Thursdays again. Again this fall.

Conor O'Kera Will

Okay? So just turn on your TV and you will see Matt this fall.

Matt Berry

That's usually a safe

Paul Feinbaum

Matt.

Conor O'Kera Will

Thanks again, man. We'll do it again.

Matt Berry

Yep.

Conor O'Kera Will

All right, well, let's close with some lad of the week. Mind if I start?

Paul Feinbaum

Go ahead, man.

Conor O'Kera Will

I don't really start ladder of the week, do I? Come to think of it, I always. I always defer.

Paul Feinbaum

You usually get the more serious ones. So I'm just like, I saw a cat that was wearing a sunflower hat and you're like, this person is very dear to me has passed away. Right?

Conor O'Kera Will

Oh, you're right. I do go a little bit more serious. Okay, let's go. A little bit more fun today. I just. All the Knicks. And I say that as someone who grew up hating the Knicks. Absolutely hating. I got this book, Blood in the Garden, which is a great, great read on the 90s Knicks. I've read it three times. Hold on a sec.

Paul Feinbaum

It is.

Conor O'Kera Will

I'm gonna. I'm gonna show it to the people. No, no free shout outs, but this is worth it. Chris Herring did the Lord's work on this. It was everything you would hope for if you experience like 90s NBA. And I have read that book cover to cover, thinking to myself, the Knicks will never win an NBA championship and I will laugh at their fans. I went to college with a lot of New Yorkers who root for the Knicks and stuff like that. And so you'd always have fun at their expense and be like, hey, guys, remember when you freaked out for Linsanity? Remember when you thought Carmelo was going to bring you a championship and I would always just be that guy? Okay. But this team was so fun to root for. And I'm not going to pretend like I rooted for them, but just so fun to watch as somebody that did not have a dog in the fight. And I became captivated by. By them. And I found myself in these games rooting for a Knicks comeback every single time. It was so hard. Well, you know me, like, I. I don't stay up particularly late anymore. Like, that's just not really my thing. And when they were down 29, I told myself like three different times, if they're not. If they're not within 15 at this point, then I'm going to bed. If they're not within the. And I couldn't talk myself into going to bed like that. That is how good they were during this run. And it was, it was awesome to watch. I miss watching the finals already. I told this before on these airwaves, so apologies for repeating myself. My brother used to ref with Jalen Brunson back in the day. Jalen Brunson went to high school, Stevenson High School, the town next to Buffalo Grove. Different conference, different tax bracket. And so when my brother would be reffing park district basketball games, like, oh, there would be Jalen Brunson, like right over there. And he's been very high on him, obviously for a very long time and has followed his career closely, of course. And seeing what he did at Villanova, you kind of thought that was going to be it. Of him winning national championships and then, you know, maybe he'll kick it around in the NBA and then become a coach, you know, kind of do like what his dad did. And seeing him get to these levels is wild. Absolutely wild. It's one of the greatest underdog stories I think, in the history of not just the NBA, but really pro sports. When you consider his size. He's not six two. He's not. He's a dude is six feet and with a good pair of shoes. But dude is just a dog. He's absolutely awesome. His dad was nuts growing up. That was what I had always heard, was that his dad was. He's the rare guy who had the crazy dad who like emerged and was actually better for it. Like, he is the guy that took all that hard coaching and just became the best possible version of himself. And his dad deserves obviously a lot of credit for the job that he did, raising him, coaching him up and all those different things. But yeah, crazy dad story.

Paul Feinbaum

It's like either you get a documentary or you're in therapy. I mean, probably both.

Conor O'Kera Will

The Marinovich.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, you get, you know, like the Williams sisters, like Josh Verstappen, Max's dad. Like, if you want to be a crazy dad, make sure that your kid is actually athlete because it's just awkward Thanksgivings if they're not a millionaire, you know?

Conor O'Kera Will

Right.

Matt Berry

And.

Conor O'Kera Will

And he is, he is that dude. And then watching OG Anunoby. I mean, an OG from Indiana, Come on.

Paul Feinbaum

Is it.

Conor O'Kera Will

We've been, we've been OG fans for, for more than a decade now. And seeing him finally stay healthy, the tip in was just an all time NBA finals play. He's Indiana's best NBA player since Isaiah Thomas, which is kind of crazy to think about. Think about that. Yeah, I, I mean Eric Gordon, Victor Oladipo is the competition I would take, I would take OG's career over both of them.

Paul Feinbaum

I really miss Indiana. Old Depot, man, he was something special. He really. It's, it's. But you're kind of right though. Like that was only a couple years where he's really like that. And yeah, at the sport, OG's got

Conor O'Kera Will

staying power, I guess. Definitely does. So yeah, I mean, I found myself rooting for the next. It's an interesting thing though. How many times in your life as a fan can you do a 180 on a team that you hated? Now it helps probably my case personally, that the Bulls are so irrelevant that I don't. It's not like it's some rivalry or anything like that. It's 30 years removed from me hating John Starks more than any other person. But here I was watching these games as a grown adult, seeing John Starks in the crowd at all of these games and feeling like, oh, I'm glad that that guy's getting that moment when if you would ask 6 year old Connor what he thought of John Starks, he would have had some probably not so kind words and probably even 26 year old Connor would have said that too. But yeah, just an unreal story and was fun to watch. Captivated, I think all of the sports world.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah. As a small market sympathizer, right. Saints Pelicans, it's very hard for me to like big market teams, so I'll just be happy for Clyde Frazier. I think that dude showing up in the freshest fit in the Garden every night deserves something. I think that when you see the old Knicks legends and they're like, this is the last time that the next world title, it's some dude that's like 80.

Conor O'Kera Will

It's like, man, wait, you find yourself, you, you can. You couldn't appreciate what the Knicks did because they're a big market.

Paul Feinbaum

I'm just a hater, you know, I feel like if you look at how they built their team, I hate to be this guy, but like, you know, they got Leon Rose as their gm. He was a former president. CAA got a bunch of people, you know, and like they got. But I think you look up and down this roster, you're like, wow, it's not like they were finessing guys like it. You just keep seeing the depth and like it was like, you know, the, the, the Roman army, like it's just, oh, wow, you got this guy in a trade. Oh, this guy Bridges is just hanging out over there. They barely even need him. Oh, Alvarado from New Orleans was awesome. Josh Hart. So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely. It's a team that I would love to see in one of these simulations and see how well they do historically or like, if we could play, like me and my boys always joke about, like, if we could time travel, we would just like play teams against each other and that would be a great one because they just. The sum of their parts was awesome. That's the thing I want to say. They're this gritty team, but if you look up and down, if this was like a 2K roster, they're. They're a really, really good team. But yeah, I think, you know, have a lot of famous fans. Shutting down the block. Keeping out the, the working class fans is not great. The. The celebrities with the puns on their shirts, not a fan. But I think ultimately, yeah, it's just too millennial cringe for me, man. But those people care. That's the thing. It's always weird to me when you get like an OKC that wants a title. It's like, yeah, this affects like maybe 100k total people on earth. Whereas, like, with the Nick, it's millions of fans that have been suffering. So I will give them that. 33 years.

Conor O'Kera Will

Long time. Very, very long time. Yeah, I saw some people being like, what's the college football equivalent? I saw. I can't remember who it was, but basically 2023 Michigan was kind of probably the most like it of like 20th century. Considered the, you know, the premier franchise, premier power. And it fallen obviously in hard times over the course of multiple decades and just meant so much to so many fans, so many very boisterous fans. But yeah, it was fun to watch. I miss watching the finals already. It was great.

Paul Feinbaum

Yeah, that's. I'd say this. The NBA is back, right? I feel like we had a couple of snoozer seasons where guys are getting hurt and it was like, okay, Halliburton, that guy was awesome. I gave an apology on him. I thought that his, his last second, you know, heroics wouldn't translate, but he just kept doing it. So that kind of got me back in. I was watching a little bit here and there, but this like, Spurs Thunder, like Western Conference final that was like, you know, months and years, you know, coming. And the chat rivalry was really cool. And then I believe I saw the Knicks blew or, sorry, the spurs blew the largest, third largest and fifth largest vital finals lead in history in the same week, which is really impressive. I think that's. You gotta look at your coach there. Put a certain point, dear. And Fox is just, wow. I don't know how that happened, but yeah. Amazing job by the Knicks. Yeah.

Conor O'Kera Will

Darren Fox. Yeesh. That's all saying that. All right, we got.

Paul Feinbaum

See, that's why, that's why Indiana is better than Kentucky. You got that blue blood coaching right there and you want to make the big play anyway. So back to it. Yeah. I would say Lionel Messi and the Team USA World cup team.

Conor O'Kera Will

Who never heard of him?

Paul Feinbaum

Never heard of Messi. Man. I saw a stat that Messi has more international goals past year, 35 than Ronaldo has in his career. It's actually pretty nuts to see the level of dominance. And I've seen this, you know, watching a lot of F1. The European standard of an athlete is so different from what it is in America. Like you see an athlete in America and you're like, oh, that's LeBron James. Oh, that's Myles Garrett. Oh, that's. You know, even like a Tom Brady is six five. Like, oh, Tom Brady. He was so slept on his six five. If you walked around, you'd notice him. These guys that are playing soccer, it is so fast, Twitch. And they just look like regular dudes until they don't. And I think the greatness of like Messi and the wizardry, like we've talked before about guys that are suspect of having the force. I talked about like Greg Maddox and like Messi's right there where like he's just able to move the ball with his mind. And it's so crazy to see these world class athletes like we talked about go to Auburn, Alabama and go across the Southeast, specifically and across America. And also again, actually feeling like we have a little bit of a shot to make some noise here in the World cup with the Team USA kind of throwing out the country club mentality, getting some dogs in there, getting the young generation of guys that want to fight and claw. And it's just been a great. It's been my favorite World cup almost already. And I'm excited to see kind of whatever happens. I don't feel like there's really a villain so far.

Conor O'Kera Will

Far, there probably will be by the end. That's the way that usually works. Maybe the US Is going to be the villain in all this. Look, you got to be relevant to be a villain. It's been a long time. It's been a long time since the US has been worthy of that sort of title. But who knows? Yeah. Coming out the way that they did. Seeing how many people were going, that's the best I've ever seen a US Men's national team play. You're like, oh, okay, that's. That, that, that actually changes things. But yeah, it's a very long tournament. We'll see. Obviously, I'm gonna be more locked in. I, I can, I can't get truly locked in during pool play. Is that bad? Does that make me not a fan? Like, I, I watch like, I, I tuned into like the, the post hydration break part of, of the US game. And I, like, I was following along as they were going up, but I, I couldn't say to Lauren, hey, like, I gotta lock in to this for two hours right now. Especially when I was already watching the finals too. I will, I will. Once they continue to win games. I'm a, look, I'm a bandwagon American fan.

Paul Feinbaum

Same here. Honestly, there's some things around anyway, like. No, I'm with you. I think that it's kind of like the beginning of March Madness where sometimes you'll just get like, like four NBA guys versus like some math teachers and it's just kind of funny. Georgia was in a game like that this year, weren't they? Anyways, so point being, like, you know, I think I, I think that's kind of the beauty of it is that sometimes you like, it's national anthem, the kids are walking out. It's so beautiful. It's like, yeah, one of these guys is. One of these teams has like Holland or one of these teams has like Messi and the other team just does it. And I think that part of it's funny and like, like panic to the fans who, like, while we went all the way out here to watch our team get smoked. But yeah, I think we're gonna have some high level games here and like, field quality has not been an issue so far. So fingers crossed there.

Conor O'Kera Will

How about that? Playing on grass. A lot of football players are going, hey, could we do that? That sounds, that sounds fun. That'd be great.

Paul Feinbaum

All right. Dome hatred. Wow.

Conor O'Kera Will

I know, right? Wanted to promote one thing that we're doing also. By the way, email us the OG kickoff gmail.com Would love to get your responses on this show on chaos scenarios that you see unfolding. Caffeine, of course. Lead with your caffeine intake, please. We are doing a new show and it's got a name that I promise I didn't come up with, but it is the Conroe Cara show here with the next round. It is a really cool thing that we're doing. Every Friday morning we're gonna do this through the season. About 30, 35 minutes, we're gonna go live. It's gonna be 9 Eastern, 8, 8 Central. Again, that's in the morning and it's going to be rotating crew of TNR guys. So we're going to talk about stuff that we mentioned here. We're going to get some, some of their takes on some of the things that we brought up and then we're going to get into a lot of other things and kind of be a little bit off the rails at different points. I'm sure we had Lance on And within first 10 minutes we had him sharing never been told before, stories about life changing experiences that both of us had with the law. I told one of those stories before Lance had not. And for somebody that's been in radio for like 25, 30 years, that's, that's saying something so great. Great stuff. The Conor o' Gar Show. I promise I didn't come up with the name, but please, please, please listen to it. A Friday morning, you're just getting into work or something like that. You're trying to lock in for the day, have us on in the background with whatever you're doing. Comments. If you're not subscribed already to the next round, you should go ahead and do that. Please listen, subscribe to the OG kickoff as well and go follow us on all forms of social media. Please do that for us. It would really, really help us out. Leave us a five star review by the way. We love getting five star reviews. That's always great. Follow us on Twitter at cjoger.

Matt Berry

Oh, so hard.

Paul Feinbaum

Thanks guys.

Conor O'Kera Will

Talk soon.