Conor O'Guerra

@blythe.com, it's not just about window treatments. It's about you, your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. Shop up to 40% off with minimum purchase and a free professional measure right now@blinds.com plus pay at your own pace starting at 0% APR with affirm terms apply. Hey, what's going on? This is the OG kickoff. A double down and next round media production. I am Conor o'. Guerra. Will is in Monaco. Yeah, Will is in Monaco. It is his first F1 race. No Bachelor party this time or thing that I think is a bachelor party, but it's actually not. He is overseas. He is still producing this episode. Ironically enough, that is the dedication of one Will Ogburn. But we will not have Will today. Unfortunately. We do have a great pod lined up. David Hale is coming on a little bit. He was at SEC and ACC spring meeting. So a lot of those developments we get into, including what was happening in Washington pretty much like as we were recording this, and also something that he did that I'm extremely jealous of that has nothing to do with college football that you'll want to stick around for. And then we're going to close with the the eventful weekend that I had with Lad of the Week. I thought today we would do something that's kind of similar to what we did a couple of years ago, kind of different. We're doing a 2014 time capsule today and two years ago. OG listeners of the show will recall that we did a 2019 time capsule wherein we put ourselves more specifically, I put myself in the position of someone who was looking at the college football landscape on December 31, 2019, as we are about to embark on the 2020s and not just getting into what happened with the COVID season, but obviously all the developments of the four years. I guess that time frame was that followed and just it was a good reminder of how much things change in this sport. I actually went back and listened to it last night and some of the things that you would have just absolutely assumed were locked in certainties at that time. Like Joe Brady being this guy who has probably taken over the football world to that point. That had not happened to that, you know, to up until 2024. Obviously things have since worked out for him. But yeah, it's just a reminder that this sport changes and it changes in a hurry. And like I said, we're doing something that is similar but different in different in part because we don't have will. Today I'm traveling back in time to August 14, 2014 as someone who has watched the developments of the last decade plus and I am speaking to a die hard college football fan from that exact time of August 14, 2014. It is just before the the first season of the College Football Playoff era is set to begin. The BCS is dead. Yes, you killed it. Congratulations. You had your championship with LSU in Alabama and you killed the BCS because you wanted to get all these other teams involved. And everything that is in front of us is just hope and possibility for five power conferences to be represented in a four team playoff. Yeah, that worked out. First of all, hello, this is a podcast. It's this thing that's gonna get a lot more popular. You'll get used to it. You'll get the hang of it. And they're all on YouTube now. Some are even on Netflix. Yeah, get ready for that podcast. Podcast on Netflix if you're really big. But as I am talking to you person from 2014, Nick Saban is actually in the year 2026 in front of Congress saying that if the government doesn't step in, college sports as we know it are doomed. He compared it to being in a Ferrari going 150mph toward the Grand Canyon. No, he didn't say that at all. Because he owns like a bunch of Ferrari Mercedes dealerships. No, he didn't say that. Yes, one day college athletes will have more than Dodge Chargers to drive around. Crazy thought. I know you're so used to the Dodge Chargers at this point already it's the official car of the sec. They'll have this money that's called nil, which stands for name, image and likeness. But really it's just about kind of how much money can you get for your school to be able to pay for you to go there. And the weird thing is it's all super legal because each school now spends from their revenue sharing budgets that they get from these big media contracts. What does the NCAA think of it, you might ask? How do they factor into all this? Aren't they just snooping around everywhere going, hey, you're breaking this rule, you're breaking this rule. College sports doesn't really work like that right now. Nobody really cares, actually. Yeah, it's kind of strange. It's very bizarre. And nobody cares if people spend Way over that budget either. You know, they're supposed to only have like this 20 and a half million dollar budget. A lot of people are saying raise the budget, budget doesn't really matter. Let's, let's face it. Yeah, people pretended that this new enforcement agency called the College Sports Commission was going to process all of these payments to athletes. They're just athletes. They're not student athletes anymore. But we're around a year and a half into this thing and only one of the four major conferences has all of its schools fully signed on to do this. Actually, like right before I came back to the year 2014 to talk to you person from 2014, the Big 12 actually became the first major conference to have all of its schools on board with everything the College Sports Commission is doing. So that's where we're at with that. And speaking of that, There are only four major conferences now. Yeah, the PAC 12 died and then it came back to life, but not exactly like a New Testament resurrection. That's not what we're talking about here. Think more of like an MJ with the Wizards sort of thing. If you've ever seen them. The great classic sports movie, Mr. 3000, Bernie Mac, rip a little bit like that. So you person from 2014 might be thinking that we now have a system that makes sense. If there's only four power conferences, at least we have a postseason that makes sense. If we only have four power conferences, each winner of conference gets a spot in the four team playoff. Right. Like that's that. That would all just line up perfectly. No, not at all. I'm going to get to the playoff in a minute here, I promise. We're going to circle back to that. What actually happened was that the PAC 12 died in the last year of the four team playoff, which was in 2023. So you're going to get a decade of the 14 playoff. You're going to get 10 full years of it. But then we basically had the Big Ten take the best parts of the Pac 12 like Oregon and Washington, USC, UCLA, while the ACC and Big 12 were kind of left to, to pick apart at everything else that was left over with the exception of like Washington State and Oregon State, because it turned out nobody really wanted them. So yeah, you thought it was going to be weird as you approach 2014 to see Rutgers playing in the Big Ten, buddy, wait until you see Rutgers have to travel to UCLA for a Big Ten football game. McConnell's gonna have some thoughts about that. I'm, I'm warning you. The 2020s is loaded with weird stuff like that. You're just gonna have to embrace the weird. You don't have to embrace the weird, but you need to open up your mind for more and more weirdness. It is not exactly a decade in which we tame things back. No, we. We expand our thinking and we. We get to places, geographically speaking, that are more maddening than anything else, and they just don't make sense. So don't bother trying to make any sense of it. While you're wondering how it's gonna look to have Rutgers and Nebraska play in a Big Ten game, I'm actually here in 2026 wondering how Sacramento State is going to look on Tuesday night action. So, yeah, one thing you need to just trust me on. Geography's dead. Geography is not a thing anymore. And I don't just mean we all flying cars and everybody can just get from point A to point B in a matter of seconds. No, no, nothing like that. It's still a pain. Traveling is still the worst. Believe me when I say that there's no more proof of geography being dead in college football than Cal being in the Atlantic Co Coast Conference. That's right. A school that is kind of sort of just off the coast of the Pacific Ocean is in the conference named after the other ocean. Yeah, realignment's weird. It just is. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but it has at least given us some positives. Okay, like, let's not just be all Debbie Downer here. Instead of just fighting on social media, we get to see Texas and Texas A and M playing football again. That's good. In fact, they only did so because Texas joined the ace. Joined the SEC against Texas A M's will. That happened. It was really, really weird. 20, 21 sec media days. They were. They were a trip, buddy. It was like right before. It was 20 minutes before Jimbo Fisher is set to go on. Oh, that's another thing. Jimbo Fisher, he's going to be going to Texas A and M. I know. He just won a national title at Florida State. He's going to Texas A and M. There's going to be boots. There's going to be a $75 million check. There's going to be a buyout. That's going to come later. You'll get to all of that. I'm spoiling a lot of this for you. But Jimbo Fisher, stay locked into that one. But yeah, Texas and Oklahoma are now in the SEC. The conference swooped in and just stole two of the biggest brands from the Big 12. Kind of like Jameis stole all those Chronicles crab legs. One day we're actually all going to look back and laugh that such a big deal was made from Jamis and the crab legs when we're now living in a world in which a Duke quarterback was stolen for $10 million. Again, buckle up for this nil thing. It is a trip. Money is not real. Geography is not real. Also, we need to buckle up for the conversations about conferences and the money that they changing drastically. I know you're in the hundreds of millions of dollars already.

David Hale

You.

Conor O'Guerra

You understand that money is really big. We're about to start using the B word billions here. Okay? The SEC Network. I realize I am talking you today, a person from 2014 on the day that this thing launches, all right? This is a big, big deal for the conference. And I don't mean to to spit in the face of Jefferson Pilot and all those great things that made the SEC what it was, but the SEC Network is launching today. Appreciate that, because it is going to be a huge asset for the conference, I think, for college football as a whole. A lot of great people are going to work at the SEC Network, and there's going to be a lot of great programming that's going to come from it. These conferences getting their own networks. This is a positive development. This probably shouldn't have happened seven years after the Big Ten network was launched, because in many ways, the Big Ten's ability to negotiate media contracts, it's what's going to give the Big Ten a huge edge in the 2000s in this era in which those types of things bankroll College Sports. In 2025, the Big Ten made 1.47 billion. I told you we'd say the B word. Billion dollars. And it distributed $1.37 billion to its 18 schools, which is a whole lot different than the $318 million check that the Big Ten cut to its member school. Yes. Money. Not real.

David Hale

Okay?

Conor O'Guerra

Monopoly money. Monopoly wishes that I have money like this. That's true for the coaches, too. This one's gonna blow you away. So, person from 2014, I need you to be sitting down for this. I don't know why you've been standing this whole time. That's kind of a weird move. We're having a conversation. This is a podcast, remember, not a radio show. Sit down. You're living in a time in which Nick Saban just got a raise to start making $7.1 million per year. I know. We always have sticker shock with the saving contracts at Alabama. First, he was the four million dollar man when he was the head Coach at Alabama 2007. And now here we are seven years later, and my gosh, that number has climbed all the way up to $7.1 million for a college football coach. He's in college and he's making that kind of money. Couldn't have him leaving for Texas, though. That's what this is all about, right? Be a bad look. So Saban's the only coach in America who even makes $6 million per season in 2014. That's why you person from 2014 have this sticker shock. I realize, like, he is still the outlier as you sit here and breathe. So I won't necessarily tell you you're crazy to think that way. But here's the thing that I need you to be sitting down for. In 2025, 42 coaches will make at least $6 million per year. If you ain't making 6 million bucks a year and you're a power conference coach, you're probably going to your agent saying, why am I not making at least $6 million? Or you're probably on the hot seat and maybe you should do a little bit more to earn that money. 29 coaches will make at least as much as the $7.41 million that Nick Saban got. That includes one Kirk Ference. Yeah, that's right. He's still around. He's still caring a lot about punting. He. He's still doing his thing. Maybe he's immortal. I haven't figured that out yet. I won't pretend I know the answer to how that all shakes out. There are a lot of guys, though, who are on that list, that list of 29 coaches making at least $7.1 million in 2025. Guys that you've never heard of before or if you have, like, I. I don't know. We need to have some conversations. There's this guy named Marcus Freeman who was. He was an okay player at Ohio State. He was all right, maybe you remember him. But like, you could probably name a whole lot more linebackers at that time, more so than. Than Marcus Freeman. But yeah, I mean, you probably don't know who he is, and he's going to lead Notre Dame to a national title birth ten years from now. Yeah, that's right. There's this other guy named Dan Lanning who, who is going to help Georgia and the 1980 jokes. He's going to do so as a really decorated defensive coordinator, and then he's going to become one of the best coaches in the sport at Oregon. Yeah. Dan Lanning name to know. And then there's this other fellow you've never heard of, person from 2014. You, you have a crippling gambling addiction and you probably need to stop betting on division two football if you've heard of this guy. But Kurt Signetti, let me tell you something about him. I tell you to Google him in 2014, but all it's going to come up is that once upon a time he was on Nick Saban's staff and probably nobody even talked about what he did to go to IUP and leave that staff at, in. At Alabama and to go to Indiana University, Pennsylvania. Yeah, I know, but trust me, you're gonna want to know that name. He. He's very much worth, worth remembering here. A Nick Saban disciple who figures things out. This is the part where I lose you completely. Okay. Kurt Signetti is going to be on that list of highest paid coaches because not only did he get Indiana to the College Football Playoff in his first year to earn that new deal for 2025, but then he won a national title by going 16 0. See, I got, I got. You could see it right up there. I, I got the, the thing to commemorate it. I got the little, the frame. Frame black. Yeah, you could, you could see it right there. No, we did not switch this conversation to all of a sudden talking about basketball. We are still talking about college football. Yeah, that is. This is not a video game. This is not a video game, though. Speaking of that, it's about to go away for about 10 years and then it's going to come back better than ever. Just, just sit tight. It's going to be fine. But the 2000 and 20s are so bonkers that Indiana is winning a national title. And it might not even be the craziest thing about what's going on here. All right. Kurt Signetti is so good that people like Aaron Murray ever heard of him. He's saying that he's a better coach than George's coach, Kirby Smart, who did end the 1980 jokes by repeating as a national champ, but is also trying to win titles at a time in which cars go way, way faster than the Dodge Chargers that you're used to seeing, especially in Athens. So, yeah, I buried the lead here a bit with the other part to this Indiana thing in the postseason that they were able to just win. They had to win a 12 team college football playoff. And. I know, I know. I also thought that they would go to an 18 playoff before they eventually went to 12. But money talks. That's the theme of the 2000s. And honestly the 12 team playoffs been pretty fun for the most part. You know, I kind of resisted it too. I was one of those guys like I don't think we need to get off of 4 though. I understand why we are moving to 12 and I didn't think that the sport needed it to survive. I thought it was still pretty inclusive. But 12's been fun. It's been really fun. Like the ramp up's been great. You've gotten these matchups that you know, I don't know that we would always get. I There was some bait debate about whether or not the regular season was ruined after the first year of the College Football Playoff in 2024 because Ohio State. I'm going to spoil this great game for you, but it's worth it. It adds to the context of this. Ohio State lost a second game in the regular season as this three score favorite to Michigan in 2024. That in any other previous era of the sport with the exception of 2007 would have knocked Ohio State out of consideration for for the national championship and they would have had no chance to play for the playoff in the four team era. And you know they did this whole flag planning thing at make field. You had fights real 90s feel to a great game. You're going to want to stick around for that game in 2024, I promise you. But instead it was the first year of the 12 team playoff and so Ohio State still got a shot to play for a national title. And it ends up going on this great four game run. Super dominant, incredibly talented Ohio State team ended up winning it all. I should note it wasn't with Urban Meyer. Yeah, he was long gone by then. Not dead. But in a not so stunning turn of events, Urban is gonna step down at Ohio State later in the in the 2010s. He is going to win a title. That's what you're in for by the way. 2014. I just spoiled that first year of the College Football Playoff for you. Wait, wait to see Cardell Jones, man, wait. Wait till you see that happen. That, that's going to be really fun. But yeah, things are gonna get a little messy for Urban during his final days in Columbus. There's gonna be a Jacksonville chapter coming up with him that just trust me when I say set notifications on in any way you can Google alert. That might be a little bit excessive but just you're you're going to want to be very dialed into the Urban Meyer chapter at Jacksonville, though. It goes by very, very quickly. You know that smartphones exist, but apparently Urban was unaware of that. Anyway, what are we talking about again? We are talking about the playoff. That's right. That's right. You see, not to spoil everything that happens, but the 12 team playoff actually does a lot of things well. It gives the power conferences hope it lets us have some of these elite matchups that we're actually starting to in 2026, we're starting to get away from in non conference play and there's teams that are, that are canceling these big non conference matchups, which is kind of a separate issue. But the 12 team playoff even lets the Group of 5 have an automatic bid though. You don't really have to tune into those games. And you know, there, there are a lot of those 14 playoff semifinal games that you're probably going to want to just go ahead and earn some brownie points with your significant other and be like, oh, let's go out for a nice dinner. You don't necessarily have to be fully tuned into those second half. Lsu, Oklahoma, do something else. Just trust me. I know what you're thinking. Person from 2014, what's the problem here? I, I sound a little bit distressed. I sound like I'm, I'm in a bit of panic. I'm not just coming to you with this sense of ease that everything is great and that all is right in the college football world. Doesn't it feel like we've got something in college football that gives the sport a postseason that anyone can become interested in? Haven't we gotten away from the fear of regionalization that the sport was just facing at the start of the 14 playoff eras? Isn't that something that we've been able to move past? We've successfully been able to figure out for the most part, yeah. The problem is that apparently 12 isn't good enough anymore. As we sit and breathe, the majority of college football decision makers are pushing for, wait for it, a 24 team college football playoff. And I know I can't count that high either. 24 is a lot. It is way too many. It makes no sense until you remember that college sports are about to start spending like a finance bro at a bachelor party. And they're convinced that increasing a media package for another expanded playoff is the only thing that'll allow them to continue to spend like a finance bro at a bachelor party. They'll tell you that it's because they need to save Olympic sports and that it's the best way to get participation and get this fan base interested and think they have a chance to play for a national championship, even though they really don't. But it's not, it's not really about that. In fact, the guy after the guy who replaces the Big Ten commissioner that you know very well, Jim Delaney, he's this guy, Tony Petiti, who believes that the 24 team playoff is going to make the regular season more meaningful and not less. And his reasoning for that is citing the MLB playoffs, which is what he was a part of helping expand. He, he said, you know, MLB playoffs, he never had resistance and he doesn't get why it's being met with resistance in college football. And he's pretending like going from a wild card rounds, like adding a wild card round in MLB playoffs is the exact same thing. Just dry heave, dry Heath. This guy doesn't get it and he never will. And he's convinced that going from four to 12 to 24 in a span of roughly four years, that's the timeline that we're talking about here, is that same thing as what the MLB did while he was there. And that's just bad. That's just really, really bad. And so I'm warning you, this is going to get ugly. And I hate to paint two grandma of a picture for you person from 2014, but I speak to you in hopes that you enjoy the time before this, before the time that I am at in 2026. I just be very skeptical of the people in charge and be skeptical that, that you are, you are entering the best days of college football. Okay. And I'm usually not the person that is sitting here telling you that, but I, I do find myself wanting to just be with you in this moment. I wish I could stick around for longer. I really do wish I could stick around with you longer in 2014. But I just would encourage you be, be as present as possible. That is the best advice I can give you. And look, I have spoiled a lot of developments for you. A ton. Apologies for that. In my defense, I was sent here to 2014 to tell you person from 2014 what awaits. And it's not that it's all bad. The turnover chain was fun for a second. It was. You're gonna get to see some of the great teams in the history of this sport. 2019 LSU, 2020 Alabama. Weird circumstances there, but still really good team. You're gonna get to watch special players like Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson. You'll see polarizing seasons like 2020 Florida and 2023 Michigan, albeit for really different reasons. You're going to be treated to all world games like the 2017 Rose bowl and the game that followed. That was really epic, too. Georgia fans, you're not going to want to watch the game that followed. You'll see this unbelievable rise and fall of coaches like Tom Herman and Ed Ogeron shoot the upcoming 12 Years of Lane Kiffin. That chapter is. That chapter alone is worth savoring. Even if you're locked into nothing but Lane Kiffin, it is worth experiencing this time in college football. I really don't want to spoil anything there, but I'm just going to tell you that you have not seen the last of Lane Giffen on a tarmac.

David Hale

Okay?

Conor O'Guerra

You've got plenty to look forward to, person from 2014. You've also got plenty of reason to wonder what in the world that we people from 2026 are in for. All right, let's kick it to David Hale. Great conversation with David, though. There is a little bit of some adult language mixed in there. So if you got some kids in the car, maybe just save this one for the headphones. Nothing that egregious. But yeah, just something I always like to point out ahead of an interview like that. But still a lot of fun. Great, great discussion with David. So let's kick it to David Hill. I'm now excited to be joined by a very special guest. It is ESPN's David Hale. David, lots to get to with you. You've been everywhere lately. Let's start with the SEC spring meetings. I was trying to think about what's the best way to phrase this, but what was the thing that provided you with your biggest eye roll of the week? And why was it anytime anybody mentioned the SEC breaking away?

David Hale

Yeah, first of all, you said I've been everywhere. I'm currently like in a phone booth. So I apologize for the lack of aesthetical aesthetics, aesthetic pleasures here. I don't, you know, whatever that is. I'm not a writer. I don't come up with words. You know, it was Sankey really set the stage early. By the first time somebody asked him about it, him saying, well, we've always had our own rules that we voted on here and we're not even voting on rules this time. And it's like, I think you're being purposefully obtuse here about what is actually being asked. Though I also rolled my eyes at sort of the way the media continued to ask the same question. Phrase the same way, knowing the answer that he was going to give. You know, it's funny too, because it was a few weeks earlier that Iowa State's AD basically said, like, yeah, go do it, I dare you. And I've thought more and more that like, like, I do think there is this sort of inevitability around super conferences in five years, maybe or four, whenever we get through this next round of TV contracts. Like, there's, there's so many things that point in that direction if something significant doesn't intercede here, whether it's government stuff or whatnot. But the notion that the SEC and the Big Ten were just going to take their ball and go home, and for years they've been basically threatening this just seems sort of crazy to me. And I've talked with Jim Phillips in particular about this because I'm stuck with the ACC very often, like, why not call their bluff? Why just double their playoff payouts and not just call their bluff and say, yeah, go have your own playoff and see how it goes? Because I don't think they would do it. There would be tons of political and legal blowback in the PR response to it would be a disaster. But then again, like, this sport is so fundamentally broken in terms of, like, how the people running it or managing it and how little anyone cares about the overall industry of college sports and only care about their little corner of it, that none of it really surprises me.

Conor O'Guerra

I think that's perfectly fair. And, you know, when I hear Scott Strickland talk about the Premier League and how well the SEC could basically do what the Premier League has done, I think that is so, so unbelievably dismissive. And to just assume that you can just create what they have, especially at this juncture with the sec, where, and everybody knows this is the worst three year stretch on the championship stage, at least that the SEC's had in a couple of decades, and to think that, oh, hey, you could just take your ball and go home and you'd be perfectly fine. I think that that's maddening to hear that. And if I'm a fan, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that would be the worst possible result for this. And I, I think it's ridiculous that, that people are legitimately saying, well, we're not discussing this, but, you know, like, if we wanted to be good, I,

David Hale

I couldn't agree more with you on this. And look, frankly, I think there, if you go look at sort of the formation of the Premier League and how British soccer evolved in the like 80s and 90s. There are a lot of parallels. Like, I get where that sort of analogy comes from, but there are, it's much like people saying, like, well, it's the college is becoming so much more like the pros. Like it's becoming more like it. But there are certainly more ways it's different now than there are ways that it's the same. And you know, our old pal up in Chapel Hill is a perfect example of like, if you don't recognize the differences between the NFL and college football, you're doomed. And if you don't recognize all of the ways in which that parallel between the Premier League and the SEC or anybody else doesn't hold up to scrutiny, when you start digging into the details, then you're shooting yourself in the foot. And you know, I'm glad you brought up to the worst three years. Like Sankey really sort of tried to downplay that too, is like, oh, a couple of close games that could have gone either way. This reminds me a lot of Dabo Sweeney talking about like, well, if we just had gotten a few more of those takeaways. Like, well, you used to beat people by 30 and now you're losing to Duke by four. Like, yeah, one takeaway might have been a win, but also that doesn't show up how much different things are today than they had been. And frankly, I almost feel like the 2014 playoff discussion is a bigger indictment of the SEC than the three straight years without playing in a national championship game. Not because I disagree with the SEC stance, but I mean if this was six months ago, if the SEC and ESPN were against something happening, it didn't happen. And we went from the Big Ten alone on an island with this to now controlling the narrative about it. And to me that's the thing that is really like eye opening. Not because of the on field product, which obviously I think we've seen some significant shifts, but the off field power structure. Like Tony Petitti has put himself in a power position that did not belong to anyone outside of SEC country six months ago.

Conor O'Guerra

It begs the question, and I'm curious if having spent this time around Greg Sankey and seeing his interactions at the spring meetings impacted your answer to this. Has Greg Sankey lost his fastball?

David Hale

You know, I, it's funny, I, I, I, it's a little bit, I was talking to somebody about Kirby Smart and Georgia yesterday and just what I think a significant season this is for Georgia. Not because they haven't been very good. They have, it's just that like, again, I watched all of this happen at Clemson where they win two national championships in a three year span and it seems like it's never going to end. And then it kind of chips away a little bit, but not a lot. And then it goes off a cliff and it's like. And is there, is there this point which Georgia like has to win? And I said, you know, Kirby Smart and Dabo are not the same in almost any other way. But like, I do think that they view sort of their role as a coach and program building and culture building through a very similar mindset. Like, Kirby doesn't love the portal, just as Dabo doesn't love it. Like, all of there's more similarities than people think. Anyway, that is all preface in saying that, like, I think Kirby's a great coach who is trying to do things the right way. I think Greg Sankey is largely the voice of reason here. But we don't live in a society where reason trumps everything else. We live in a society where the guy with the best sound bite or the guy who's greasing the right wheels is the one who's getting what he wants. And so I'm not sure that like, I don't think Sankey has fundamentally changed. I think the ecosystem we're living in has shifted quite a bit and Sankey's still trying to be the, hey, guys, like, this is, let's, let's think this through. What is this? Does this make sense? And largely does this make sense for the sec? Yes. But in general, like his points about the playoff and that we haven't thought through a single repercussion of going to 24. These are valid points. He's not wrong. He's just not being listened to the same way.

Conor O'Guerra

I think that's a huge part of it. And I, I think this is just also maybe what conference commissioners sound like when their conference isn't winning championships.

David Hale

Right? Yeah. Context is funny thing, man.

Conor O'Guerra

He sounded a lot like Jim Phillips with some of the spin zone things that he was saying where, you know, the SEC is by far still the strongest conference and that if the SEC were winning, nobody would ask him about losing. Like, wait a minute, is that the dumbest thing I've ever heard Greg Sinky say? Like, is that the single dumbest thing that he's ever said?

David Hale

I mean, I was purple. Nobody would be asking if the sky is blue. That is, that's the fact right there.

Conor O'Guerra

Yeah. Like, so what, what did you make of that? Because it's, it's very rare to see him in a spot like this where, you know, I think that there's still a certain level of respect for the depth in the sec and we can talk about that until we're blue in the face. But where you see him bringing out these points and then like any sort of pushback, he doesn't really have the defining metrics in a way that makes everybody kind of go, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And we can point to the data, the data packet that he handed out last year and what a. A joke that ended up being. But this really comes down to just a conference that isn't winning championships anymore, or at least at the time being, doesn't know how to talk its way out of it.

David Hale

Yeah. And so much of it is they set up a conversation and the facts of that conversation have changed and not in their favor, and they're still trying to have the same conversation. And I think that's a part of it. Like, you've got to adapt with where your strengths are, and I don't think that that's being aware of your strengths. It felt defensive, which I think when you compare it to Jim Phillips, that's sort of the starting point of like, this level of defensiveness as opposed to acknowledging, like, it could have been very easy to just say, like, boy, you know, we haven't had the ball bounce our way a lot. But we also have to make a couple of strong moves to ensure that we remain at the top of the food chain, because that is where the SEC belongs. Like, that's a perfectly reasonable answer that I think would have been a tip of the hat or a nod to what is recent history, but also not conceding the point to the Big Ten on any sort of permanent basis. But it's sort of crazy. And I've talked to a number of folks around the sport about this, how much the SEC has sort of misplayed its hand over the last couple of years, because by being sort of like so self interested and within that bubble of we're great and we're going to protect how great we are, they've opened the door to all of these changes in college sports that again, if. If the SEC and ESPN had been fighting for a lot of the things that we're trying to talk about in Congress right now, all along, I think those things would have happened by now because everybody was getting in line behind the sec. Well, by not putting in any sort of the guardrails that people are now asking for, it has allowed the Big Ten to become what it is. Like Indiana can't do this if it's 10 years ago. Frankly, I don't think that like Michigan would have become Michigan if it was 10 years ago. Like a lot of this has, has been the Big Ten. A lot of the, the infrastructure advantages that have been created and from all of the new lack of rules have really helped the Big Ten. And the SEC has largely just said like, okay, cool, like let it happen. And you know, and I think that comes from a place of arrogance might be the wrong word. But just assuming that we're the greatest and it'll stay that way.

Conor O'Guerra

And it's something that I feel like in a different way. It's like the State of Florida football program struggled with that.

David Hale

Oh, 100.

Conor O'Guerra

And it's like the SEC is, is kind of facing this reality and it's a huge fork in the road right now at face feels like. In somewhat related news, as we are recording this, the SEC and Big Ten, you know, they're, they're, they released this, this joint statement saying basically, hey, we don't support the Protect College Sports Bill. And of course you've got Nick Saban with the testimony and all these people who are trying to, to get through to Congress. They don't want to be bullied into pooling their media rights and forking over what is essentially their competitive advantage. My question is, who is the Protect College Sports Bill actually designed to protect? Because if you're telling me that all this posturing that's gone on and all of these thousands of hours that has been spent trying to be able to get a bipartisan or non partisan bill, whatever you want to call it, if all this is being done to just make sure that kid can still play water polo on scholarship, I'm rolling my eyes because these powers have way too much invested for me to think that's the primary motivation.

David Hale

As a few people have said, it feels like a bill that Cody Campbell spent hours and hours and hours writing. I don't know what Ted Cruz and Marcia Cantwell spent their time on. Yeah, I mean, look, I totally get why the SEC and the Big Ten are pushing back on this because it does feel like a bill that was written to pull power back from them. And so many of the things in there feel so directly about like what I'm worried the SEC or Big Ten is going to do. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing for college sports, but it is definitely feels like a thing where they're targeted. You know, I've always had. And this is one of those things that goes very unsaid. Water polo is a great example of this. But, like, a lot of people have been talking about tennis now because it's not like young American kids playing tennis, first of all. It's. We're. We're importing tennis players from overseas and paying them nil money now. So we're already killing college tennis. But also, like, water polo, tennis, soccer, like a lot of these sports, like, they're from families who can certainly afford to pay their own ride, and they don't need coaches making a million dollars to coach tennis or water polo or whatever, or some fraction of that. Even football and basketball, two sports that are largely played by a much different socioeconomic class than water polo and soccer, have been footing the bill for them for years and years and years. And a lot of this, to me, I think we don't talk enough about how wrong the economic model of college sports has been for so long. Like, I'm not saying I like where things are at right now. The pendulum has swung all the way in the other direction, and I think it has had a lot of negative consequences, if nothing else, for fans who never get talked about in this conversation. But the bottom line is, in any other business, if you couldn't keep your business afloat with your own product, then sorry. Now, I don't want that to be the way we look at Olympic sports, But also, like no other country in the world does Olympic sports the way that we do Olympics.

Conor O'Guerra

Yes.

David Hale

So, you know, I struggle with a lot of this. And even, like, like, soccer is another great example of, like, as a sport is sort of trying to figure out how it even fits in the NCAA anymore. Like, they want to go to two semesters, because it doesn't. If you want to play soccer at a high level, the NCAA model for soccer really doesn't work that well as it is. So, you know, to me, we're trying to stuff toothpaste back in a tube as opposed to saying, all right, this is the landscape and this is what the future looks like. How do we build the best future here?

Conor O'Guerra

And if these big revenue sports are making more money than ever, then in theory, you're getting more money than ever to be able to finance these other sports. It's just being used as, like, the. The. Oh, hey, this is actually what it's all about, when really it's not.

David Hale

First of all, I always ask, and I've never gotten a good answer to this. Like, before, football was generating Billions of dollars. How did the water polo team exist? Like in 1980? Why did schools have water polo teams? Like, like somebody was paying for them back then too. And yeah, I mean look, you're, you're 100% right. The, the NCAA and the powers that be are really good at sort of finding the empathetic straw man to try to get people on their side. Like it was always before. It was like all of these different state nil unfair to the players. Like, no, it's not. They're doing fine. They're doing just fine. We don't need a federal oversight of NIL to protect the players. But that's the thing that you're trying to hang out there as the. Well, this is a reasonable thing to say. It's not all about us being greedy.

Conor O'Guerra

David, let's talk some ACC here. We outlined last week how, how wide the preseason odds were between Miami and everyone else in the ACC. I mean it feels like 2010 is Clemson all over with the way that yeah, everybody's going to have the Miami as the obvious pick in the preseason. They don't even face Louisville or smu who's second and third in the preseason odds. Miami can't possibly lose the ACC this year, right?

David Hale

Oh, he of little faith in the ACC's Wheel of Destiny. You know, it is funny because we do this every year with the ACC as we pick whoever the easiest pick is to win. And it shows such a lack of imagination in a conference that's on field product is nothing but a child's imagination. It doesn't make any sense. It's all just, you know, fairy tales. Like here's the thing, I think Miami on paper is probably the best team by a pretty good margin. But like I look at them and they just brought in a $10 million quarterback who I think is really good. But you're, you know, he's one of the things I think he showed against Tulane last year is like he doesn't like being the guy that all the spotlight is on and this is a different area for him. And then you flipped over an offensive and a defensive line from massive, massive NFL talent and you've got really talented guys, but not as proven guys who have not played together the length of time that a lot of those guys on the O line did last year or have this chip on their shoulder the way that Reuben Bain and Akeem Messador did last year. Like, I think there's really good guys all the way around. I think, look, their backfield is going to be deep the receiving core is probably better than it was last year. Their secondary should be really good again, although Keonto Scott is going to be missed a lot. But I always say I start every year like in the, in the, in the preseason. I think, like, how good is your quarterback and what's your line of scrimmage look like? And, and that's got to be the starting point for anything else I believe about your, your program. And I've got questions at Miami. I think they have answers, but I've still got questions. Now compare that to a place like Louisville or Louisville's. Maybe not as good an example as SMU where you've got a fourth year starter quarterback in Kevin Jennings who is desperate to prove and has always played with that chip on his shoulder. A lot of returners on both sides of the line of scrimmage and I think a really damn good head coach in Rhett Lashley. Like, and SMU beat Miami last year.

Conor O'Guerra

True. People forget. People forget. It was, it wasn't just entirely Carson Beck throwing inexplicable interceptions, but that's always

David Hale

part of the recipe. It's just, Just, you know.

Conor O'Guerra

Yeah, it's just like Louisville on that Friday night game where you're like, wait, the reverse angle. Okay. I can't tell you what he saw.

David Hale

Has there ever been a player in college or at least recently whose entire narrative was defined more by like six throws? Like, like, I can't even tell you, like the great throws that. And he did. He made some great plays, but there's like six, just terrible ones that defined his entire career right up into the very last throw of his college career.

Conor O'Guerra

And if he has those in the NFL, just two of those. Multiple of those.

David Hale

Yep. That's.

Conor O'Guerra

You just get blasted into the sun and you're just forever. Just like, all right, this guy can't be.

David Hale

You've been exercised to the Nate Peterman zone.

Conor O'Guerra

Exactly. Miami getting its first acc. Well, I shouldn't say it this way. Miami getting the ACC its first playoff victory of the 2000s was massive for the league. And Jim Phillips can. Can flex about that all he wants, especially considering that the path included two SEC teams and a Big Ten team. Who do you think is the next non Miami ACC team to win a playoff game? And it doesn't necessarily have to be this year.

David Hale

It's a great question because there is, there's just such a power vacuum right now. Like, the money is obviously part of the problem. Clemson's regression is a part of the problem. Like, would it shock Me, if Clemson wins a playoff game this year, like, no, Dabo pulls rabbits out of his hat and he's done it before. But like, Florida State is down bad. Clemson is down bad by Clemson standards right now. Virginia Tech I think is probably still two years away from really being a factor in all of this. And then, you know, look, I think SMU is a real good team this year, but talent wise, like, on paper, they're not a bunch of blue chip guys. Louisville I really like this year and I think Jeff Braum is one of the best coaches in the country, particularly on the offensive side of the football. But there's. I got questions that man, like, what is. Who is Lincoln Keenholz? We've never really seen him play at any sort of significant action. And again, that's not a roster that is chock full of blue chip guys. Like the difference between Miami's. The blue chip ratio that Bud Elliott puts out every year, the difference between Miami and everybody else is pretty wide at this point. And so you say like, who's. Who's the next. Who can really get there? Like, again, it wouldn't shock me if any of those teams got to the playoff and then it's really about a matchup for a win and Clemson could do it. But you know, I honestly, I don't think I'd be crazy in saying Virginia Tech might be the next best answer.

Conor O'Guerra

That's interesting. Yeah, that's really interesting. Look, big game James, non Miami playoff victory in 2020. That'd be something. I can't wait for people to turn on that week zero game between UNC and TCU and go, wait a minute. Bill Belichick hired Robert Patrick Petrino to run his offense. This is a good, incredible. I love that. Petrino has basically become the turkey vulture of college football where a coach like gets fired. You know, he wants to be picking at the carcass as the interim coach. Like, that's just his new mantra. And I'm all about it. Give me your early sense on kind of that extremely fascinating dynamic in Chapel Hill.

David Hale

There's a. There's like a long running. If you're like a TV nerd, there's a long running joke about Ted McGinley. Years ago that every show Ted McGinley would come on like, it would be like in the final throes of being canceled. And so he comes on like Happy days for the last year in the love boat. For the last year he was actually one married. I think he was on the better half of Married with Children. But That's a long. That's a longer story.

Conor O'Guerra

Shrinking is so good.

David Hale

Shrinking is good. Yes. And he's. It's nice to see maybe Bobby Utrino has this late career shrinking renaissance as well. We'll. We'll have to see. Look, the Petrino hire is a good one to me in that I mean, you could have probably just had chat GPT program your offense and be markedly better than whatever they were throwing out last year. And normally I would say the problem with hiring Bobby Petrino is that you really risk the culture of your locker room. Well, it was already complete shit at North Carolina, so this isn't really changing that dynamic either. If you're at Carolina at this point, you know what you're getting. And then they've got Travis Burgess, the freshman quarterback that they brought in. I don't know if he'll win the job or not because nobody knows anything that's happening inside the Carolina program because Belichick doesn't let anyone know about it. But I know the kids got talent. And if you put a quarterback who actually has some upside with a smart play caller and Bobby Petrino and a moderately better roster than they had last year, like, I don't think it's wrong to say, like this team's probably, well on paper, probably two to three wins better than they were last year. The problem is the schedule that they had last year versus the schedule that they have this year is also a lot harder this time around.

Conor O'Guerra

Speaking of offensive coordinators, Chad Morris. I'm gonna say something nice and then something not as nice.

David Hale

The compliment sandwich.

Conor O'Guerra

Yes, right, exactly. Dabo essentially did kind of what Kirby did with Bobo. If we want to talk about the Clemson Georgia comp, it's kind of similar in that way of like, hey, let's go back to the early 2010s. Like, we're not going to question loyalty. The difference is that with, with Bobo, he essentially had a year long mentorship under Todd Vulcan and was told like, hey, this is kind of how we operate now. Whereas Dabo just hired the guy whose offense he was running throughout, throughout the entire time. And he asked Garrett Riley to run the Chad Morris offense. And now he's like, ask her. Let's just bring Chad Morris back. Let's just do it. It's just easier this way. Even though he hasn't been calling College play since 2019. Arkansas shout out Ty Story. This ends in pure disaster. Right?

David Hale

Here's the thing. I like Chad so much. Like, he's such a lovely person and I've Spent a lot of. I like, he's nice to me anyway. And so I want to be a Chad Morris supporter here. Yeah, I mean, the odds of any of, like the house of cards that Dabo built this year, he said, I am going to build it the way I want with my cards. It's a house of freaking cards, though. And it does feel like any one of these pieces with Chad Morris being one of those, like, load bearing cards could fall apart very, very quickly and very easily. I will say in Chad's defense, or maybe at least in Dabo's mindset, he didn't call plays or anything last year, but he was basically working with Virginia's offense last year and the Virginia offense looked better. That was with, you know, Tony Elliott, who was the offensive coordinator at Clemson, who immediately followed Chad Morris. I think there's a little bit of, if that hadn't happened, if, if, if Chandler Morris hadn't been Virginia's quarterback and Chad hadn't gotten involved with Virginia and been a part of that and had these conversations with Dabo through last year, I don't think he'd be here right now. But so much of this is about putting Dabo with people he's comfortable with because he feels like he got burned by straying too far from the things he wanted to do and so he's going to do it his way. And, and he seems really comfortable with the idea that, like, if this doesn't work out, like, screw it, like, that's fine. I've had my run. Like, I'm going to go out on my terms, not on theirs. And I can't say, like, if I was in his shoes, I can't say I'd do it entirely different. Like, it's, there's something commendable about doing that rather than like hiring Bobby Petrino.

Conor O'Guerra

I don't know, I feel like I'm just predicting Dabo's demise every single year.

David Hale

And this is the part that scares me. That's when he thrives the most.

Conor O'Guerra

That's. That's probably true. But it is kind of like if you ever do the milk chug challenge, like the gallon milk chug challenge, and you're like, all right, my stomach feels like death. I'm just gonna chug the rest of this. And that's hiring chatbots.

David Hale

All right, I can't argue with it. Yes, exactly. I can't argue with that at all.

Conor O'Guerra

All right, last one before I let you go. I don't know if I've ever been more jealous of someone than When I saw you on Top Chef, my wife and I. Look, we've seen every episode in the. Whatever, 22 seasons, whatever it is, at this point of. Of the show's existence. And when I saw you pop up on that super fan episode this season, I was the Leo meme, pointing at the tv. If you could tell the. The story of kind of how you lived out. What is our household dream, Your household dream as well, of being on Top Chef.

David Hale

It is ironic or funny or sad. Like, I. I am on a TV show with my colleague Andrea Adelson on the ACC Network that airs every single week, and yet the number of people in my life who were like, hey, you were on tv, because they saw me in the background on Top Chef, you know, all right, I'll take what I can get. It was. So the. The. The. The long backstory is that much like you and your wife. My wife got me started watching Top Chef. It was the Vegas season, and it was sort of like one of those things that we were very into when we were dating so many years ago. And our favorite contestant from that season was Kevin Gillespie, who was from Atlanta. We were living in Athens at the time. So I was going to propose, and I booked dinner reservations at Kevin Gillespie's now out of business restaurant in Atlanta, and we went and had dinner there. And I had just bought a ring, and this was a very expensive dinner and wine pairing, and my credit card got declined, so that was not great. Ended up actually proposing the next day because I had to call an audible there, as I think any good coordinator would. So, anyway, flash forward, and Top Chef is filming in Charlotte, which is where we live now. And a good friend of mine is on the Charlotte Visitors Bureau, so he had, like, was plugged in with what they were doing. And so for the Superfan episode, they sent out, like, a questionnaire, like, tell us why you're a Top Chef fan. And I told that story of proposing to my wife, or trying to, at Kevin Gillespie's restaurant, and they thought that was just great. So they're like, yeah, come on, you get to be on this episode. And we didn't know anything in advance about, like, what it was going to be. They take you. I mean, it is like the bat cave. Like, you're blindfolded in, like, mask over your head, and they bust you into, like, where the Top Chef kitchen is. But, like, when you get there and you're like, oh, this isn't, like a restaurant. This is, like, actually where they film the show. It was super cool. We Got to go around and meet all of the chefs. Like, the format of this episode was, like, the chefs serving desserts to all of the diners in the kitchen. So, like, we got a chance to go talk to and spend time chatting with, like, all of the chefs that were still there. And so Lawrence, who was my favorite from this season by a country mile, literally, I spent a half an hour talking to at the end, and he basically told us everything that had happened in the season up to that point. And it was just such a great experience. And the. The. The chefs were all super chill and fun. You know, I. I secretly have a crush on Gail and. And Will for the rest of my life, and I got to, like, meet her. Like, I can't argue with any. Like, it was an amazing, amazing experience, and I think it was. As somebody who's been in Charlotte now for 12 years and lamented our often lack of food culture or any culture, it was really cool to have them here in general, because I think it got people talking about, like, what good food should be and. And how to build a good restaurant and. And put some attention on some of the folks who are actually doing it here. So all a very great experience.

Conor O'Guerra

It's incredible. Absolutely incredible. And for those who have been watching the season, spoiler alert here. The Seeger Exit is one of the great moments of recent memory. Did you get to meet him that day? Like, did you get any sort of vibe?

David Hale

No, because here's the thing, because this was his second elimination, the one. The meltdown one, because he'd already been eliminated once, and then. So I didn't see. I didn't get to meet him at my episode. But you got that vibe from him. Like, there was this era of cockiness. Like, and actually, so it was right before the episode that I was on that he got eliminated on, and it was his cockiness about how much more he knows about barbecue than everybody else. And he ends up getting eliminated after, like, snack talking Lawrence the whole episode for how he was doing his barbecue. So. But, I mean, this is a thing, and this is. I'm sort of torn on the Seeger Exit to some degree. Like, I loved every second of it, but, like, part of what I love about Top Chef is there's no part of it that is trying to be a reality show. Like, there's no part of it that is, like, forcing the drama. And this happened just completely organically, like a Real Housewives show of just, like, somebody bitching about stuff that. And everybody, like, oh, my God, like, all of it was so great. It was just great. Real reality TV drama.

Conor O'Guerra

Early season. Top Chef, like, like you talk about like the Vegas season. Vegas had probably a drama like the Taggio Brothers even just like that dynamic. I remember the stole.

David Hale

The stolen P Puree. What year was that? That was like epically great TV drama.

Conor O'Guerra

Yeah. I mean even Kristen when she gets eliminated that first time. Yeah, like there's, there's a lot, there was a lot of great early season, but they've gotten away from that. It's all about the food. But an unbelievable show and I'm extremely jealous that you got to be a part of it. David, you're the man. Know that you got a lot of stuff going on. Hopefully next time that you're on, we'll be discussing the Cubs independent race and maybe a single pitcher will stay healthy.

David Hale

All we have to do is just keep winning 10 games in a row in between our 10 game losing streaks.

Conor O'Guerra

Yeah, yeah, just win 10 games in a row. Like just avoid the 10 game losing streak and then, you know, you'll win a title. That's the way it works. Thanks, man. We'll do it again soon.

David Hale

Good talking to you.

Conor O'Guerra

All right, let's close with some lad of the week. I don't know that I mentioned this on the show, but we were out of town this past weekend for Claire's third birthday party in Indianapolis. And oh, by the way, Claire is my last of the week as I like to do every time she has a birthday. And for all the cliche reasons, I mean, it's crazy to think that she is already three years old. I remember like it was yesterday doing these episodes recording ahead of time like in preparation for her being born. And Will and I did a bunch of stuff just to make sure that people still had podcasts to be able to listen to. And we, we're doing like knocking out a bunch of different content leading up to that. And so to be here already three years removed, it, it's very, very crazy to consider that. And a lot of the people that we were with over the weekend who were able to, to be with us to celebrate Claire were there at her first birthday party which was also in Indianapolis. The first one at her sister's house, Lauren sister's house. This one we had at Lauren's parents house in Indianapolis which is a five acre farm with horses and there's tractors and plenty of stuff to do and whatnot. They've got just a whole lot of outdoor fun, pool, hot tub, the whole deal. And we had a fantastic time it was one of those weekends, though, in which I went into it thinking that it will probably be a reminder that people don't fly across the country very often to celebrate their kids. And I definitely had a couple of moments in which I thought to myself, are we doing too much for this again? Because it was a lot easier last year to just be like, all right, we're gonna hang out in Orlando, we're gonna take her to SeaWorld and she's gonna flip out seeing Elmo and doing all those things. And instead we were flying because we wanted to be closer to family. I've shared this before, before, but my mom lives three hours away from Indianapolis in the Chicagoland area, and so she's able to. To make the drive down pretty easily. And she did so with her fiance Mike, and then my brother and his wife being in Lexington, they can drive up three hours to Indianapolis and they are able to. To make that work as well. So extremely grateful that we were surrounded by, by family and friends and whatnot. And yeah, being able to have both sets of grandparents there at the same place was a lot better than, you know, being able to celebrate just in Orlando. And it would. It would have just been. Been us and Claire's friends, which would have been fun in its own right, but just a different experience and whatnot. So I, I say that because I was seeing all the different moments with Claire in which I thought, dang, I can't believe how big she is and how old she feels already. And I wondered how that would feel as a parent, to watch your kid grow up and, and have moments in which she's an actual person and she can boss people around, tell people that she wants things this way or that way or the other, and she can run from point A to point B. She was literally riding a mini tractor by herself, which she just learned how to do over the weekend. And I tried to be as present as possible with it. I know I say that a lot on this show, but it was special. It was really special. It was special getting to see her interact with family and friends as a much bigger person than what she was at her first birthday when we were there a couple of years ago for it. And so it was really, really enjoyable. We had a Paw Patrol themed party that went about as. As one would expect a three year old's birthday party to go, where you just kind of blink and it's over. But yeah, had ourselves a great time. Lauren came back with a tattoo that doesn't have anything to do with Claire's birthday, Lauren got a tattoo for the first time. She got a friendship tattoo. She went on a trip with her two college roommates all of whom had not been in the same place at the same time since 2019. And so they planned this girls weekend about nine months ago and they spent a couple of days in Bloomington and just got to have themselves a fantastic time for a couple of days and then she was able to make it, make it back up to her parents house about an hour away. And yeah, Lauren came back with a first time tattoo. So all of a sudden then I now I'm the one member, I guess on her side of the family that is lacking tattoos which is just an interesting development of like her parents in their 60s got tattoos for their 60th birthdays and now have a look, a lot of ink. And Lauren now has a visible tattoo sample gates that is just like, just sitting like right there on that part of her arm. And so yeah it was, it was an eventful weekend. I didn't even get to the part where I, I think I got a traveler's version of something. I'll let you fill in the blank but let's just say I think I lost ten pounds in a day. Don't think it was a, it was a stomach bug or anything contagious. Otherwise we wouldn't have had anything like we wouldn't have hosted a bunch of people at the party. So wasn't anything like that. But your boy was, was going through it for about a day and a half there and we were able to pull through and it made it work. So yeah, it was, it was a great time. It's crazy to think that Claire is already three. She is a three nager. I did not come up with that. I heard that said for the first time a few weeks ago. That is mine now. Claire is the most three nature that I have ever seen and we are very, very happy that we got to spend the time that we did in Indianapolis. For those of you that live in that area right now that just get to experience that weather all the time as opposed to 90s and humid in the south. I am so jealous. Beyond jealous. It's a weird thing for me to get up here and say that the weather, I, I, I love weather at a place that I've lived before but my gosh, it was, it was incredible. So yeah, still a little bit buzzing off of the weekend that we had. It was an absolute blast and hopefully we get to go back up there sometime soon. So that's pod that'll do it. I know we're a little bit shorter. We're a little bit shorter when we don't have Will because we don't have his input. But that's all right. I hope Will right now is enjoying himself in Monaco, having himself a time, as the kids say. So Please email us dojkickoffgmail.com Caffeine intake. What's it like? What you doing? Give me recommendations. Always looking for new caffeine recommendations. I'll drink a black coffee over the weekend. Yeah, every once in a while. Had to mix it up. It was worth it. Leave us a five star review. Subscribe to the next round as well as the OG Kickoff on YouTube. Follow us on Twitter at tjoker oh so hard. Thanks guys. Talk soon.