A

So good, so good, so good.

B

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A

You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome?

B

That's new.

A

It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses Setup required. Compatibility and availability various 18. Hey, what's going on? This is the OG kickoff. A double down in next round Media production I'm Conor McGarra. Well, what if I told you that Jim Phillips has finally figured out tiebreakers in the ACC and maybe they're actually gonna send their best teams to a conference championship game when it has a playoff birth at stake? What if I told you that in the year of our Lord 2026 they finally figured that out?

B

I'd be really proud of him. How did he manage that?

A

Well, he managed that by basically saying, hey, you know, we probably need to look at other metrics head to head. Still going to be most important, but like team success rate is how we're gonna wiggle around this whole like Duke vs. Miami thing when it comes to sending your best team to the conference championship game. And Lord knows there are probably a lot of other ways that you could do it, but that's the way that the ACC is going to do it for now. So congratulations acc. After you finally got your first playoff victory of the 2000s, you also have now figured out that sending your best team to a conference championship game the smartest move to make if you're trying to actually have a chance to do that.

B

That's so funny. But it's kind of a bummer, right? Because, well, I guess we can now say that Miami never made the ACC under the conventional format. But you're right, it does feel like a little bit of a mob boss way to be like, hey, we kind of cooked Miami here. We don't want that to happen again. But that was the funny part of last season. It was one of the funniest things that happened last season. I actually wish Duke would win the ACC every year or at least play in the championship game.

A

And now the irony is that Darian Mensah is playing for Miami when he was at Duke, and he said at ACC media days, like, glad I was able to sneak in there before things changed. If you're not getting there based on wins and losses in conference play this year, that Darian Mensah, we're gonna have some different conversations. And Will, you're gonna feel very vindicated. If Miami, even if this, the new tiebreaker, does not benefit the Canes, if they can't get in there, man, that would be probably one of the biggest disappointments in all of college football.

B

That would unfortunately be the most Miami thing ever, is they physically change the rules for Miami to get in. Now they're like, good, and they're a money team. It's like, okay, it's their time and they fall, like a half game short.

A

Yeah, I don't think it'll happen. Maybe it will. I don't know. We're talking about upsets today. That's the plan. We have a great pod coming up. Gene Chisik in a little bit. Speaking of upsets, certain 2010 Auburn team discussed once or twice. Great, great, great conversation with him. It was so fun to catch up with Chiz and long overdue for his return. Awesome to have Will on that one as well. Chiz is the absolute best. Not that anybody who's been listening to the show for a long time needed a reminder of that, but he is. So we have that and we have out of the week. But first, well, these seven SEC upsets that will define the 2026 season. We're going into media days. We're going to have live shows. Is going to be the plan for us at media days in Tampa. We will be there. We'll kind of roll out what that plan is. It'll be a little bit different than what we're used to doing, but we're gonna have a lot of coverage, a lot of content from Tampa. And going into that, you kind of have to figure out who you think is going to be good, who you think can cause some chaos, and who you think is going to be basura. So that's what the goal is today, to be able to figure that out. And Will, I have a take that. I think some are going to disagree with this. You ready?

C

This is.

A

This is a fire take, like maybe the hottest. Take me to give this offseason.

B

Okay, wait. First off, this is our last show before media days. So, hey, we're going to be at media days. Excited to Tampa. I got my fat proof haircut in case they got me from a lot of angles. I'm excited about that. So, yeah, if you're out in Tampa, come say hi. And without further ado, what's your take? Fat haircut. Fat proof haircut. So you feel her side profile? Don't really have the double chin. Before, I had to be at the right angles, Connor. Now I feel like I'm locked in. I feel like I could be at any round table. I'm ready to go.

A

Okay. Your haircut impacts the double chin.

B

Yeah. Because it was kind of looking. You saw. You guys are seeing with the backwards hats. I was looking kind of sloppy for a minute there. I had to get it tightened up, get camera ready. Not really something I'm used to thinking about, but here we are.

A

Facial hair impacts double chin.

B

But haircut, oh, yeah. Well, you see it. I'm doing it all. I'm hitting. I'm a five tool player. We're trying to not look fat. I'm cooking.

A

Okay, all right. Work the angles, work the colors. I'm wearing a lot of black this summer myself. I was always told, don't wear black as a kid. And then as an adult, I've kind of realized, nope, that's just foolish. Okay, so this take. The only way to predict records, if you're doing so like, oh, you're trying to predict records in conference play or something like that. The only way to predict records in the SEC is to pick each game in the preseason. That's not to say that you're married to each pick. Lord knows we're going to get to some Week 10 games by the time we get there. I'm gonna look back on preseason picks and go, well, that was dumb. Why did I say that? That's not what I'm saying. But anybody can get in front of a microphone or get in front of a camera and say, my team's gonna go 10 and 2, and this team is overrated. But instead of just doing that, because to me, that just looks only at one specific piece of the puzzle. Take a half hour of your own time. Do it when you're scrolling, watching TV at night, you're watching that Netflix show that you're not even paying attention to. Do it when you're pretending to work whatever, just sit down and map out every single game that an SEC team plays. Do that. It's a fun exercise. And this year, with a nine game conference schedule, it's a tougher exercise because you'll be like, wow, I thought I was really high on this team and I haven't going 7 and 5 this year. Not everybody can go 10 and 2.

B

Okay.

A

Not everybody's going 10 and 2. I do this before ICC media days every year so that I can get there and know how I feel about specific teams and not just talk up everyone or if I'm in a bad mood, talk down everyone. But I like doing that. I used to do the s. The SEC crystal ball. I used to do that for, for sds. So I kind of did that. And I have like my own version of it. Even though I'm not going to be like rolling out specific in print form. But I map out potential upsets. That's what I like doing in the preseason. I think it's a fun thing to do because you have to map out upsets if you're just picking chalk. And this team's better than that. Like, what are, what are we doing? That's not talking season at all. And I'm not talking about like if Arkansas wins as a dog against Mizzou. I, I do have those upsets. But for today's exercise, I'm talking about the types of upsets that can define an entire season for a specific team or it can define conference races, playoff races, coach, hot seat, all that stuff. Perhaps it's not like end all, be all breakthrough type wins, but these are perception changing games that will ultimately help tell the story of the SEC in 2026.

B

Okay, that makes sense. So basically just to just to be sure, it could just affect one team. It could just affect the top end team. If a bad team were to beat a good team and take them out of a conference championship race. That is seismic.

A

Yes. So here are what I think were the seven perception defining upsets in the SEC last year. And you might disagree with some of this. Florida beating Texas kept Texas out of the playoff. Bama winning at Georgia helped Bama wipe away the FSU loss, which initially appeared to be a perception defining upset until it kind of wasn't. Ole Miss winning at Oklahoma kept Ole Miss in the playoff. Oklahoma winning at Tennessee kept Oklahoma in the playoff. Vandy winning against top 10 LSU will beginning of the end for Brian Kelly. Maybe beginning of the end was a little bit sooner, but that was like, okay, now we know this LSU team is not getting off the map. And and then Texas A M winning at Notre Dame kept Notre Dame out of the playoff despite what Irish fans will want to tell you about that that night. And Vandy winning at Tennessee made for a very weird off season for Josh Hypo and kind of put a cap on Pavia's Heisman argument. A lot of people that just decided, I'm kind of over this Pavia thing just absolutely hated him and, you know, maybe it fueled him to say some things after the Heisman Trophy ceremony. A lot of things that happened as a result of Vanny's performance. So I think the upsets that we will outline here could either have huge playoff implications or long term implications for an established SEC coach. Maybe a couple of other things that we can get into. Does that all kind of make sense now that I, you know, go through last year and all that?

B

Yes, absolutely makes sense. I, I think my, it's funny because. Yeah, okay, really quick on Texas. You know, that wing could have springboarded Florida, but it just didn't. But it did hurt Texas, to your point. So that really does change the sec. And then on the other end of it, I'm looking at Vandy going, man, I wish you could have seen that team in the playoff. You know, I, we talked about this kind of throughout the year, but they killed so many teams that were seen as better than them going into the game. I think I kind of did a counter like five or six teams that they played Vandy and then their season just came apart because of the mental toll of just losing the Vandy and it was like a before and after where going, going into the game they were ranked or they were hot, kind of like, you know, lsu and then after, they just fell apart. And I think that really hurt Vandy. I think that they're one of the greatest examples of logo attrition that we've ever seen. Because I think that, you know, again, looking at this list again, if they were Texas or Alabama or Georgia, I think they're pretty cleanly in the playoff.

A

But you don't. No, their wins didn't hold up. That was the problem.

B

Right.

A

You talk about LSU falling apart, South Carolina fell apart, Virginia Tech fell apart. They had these games that, you know, to their credit, like they took care of business. Like winning 10 games is no joke. I, I think when you realize like other 10, 10 win teams were left out of the college playoff, I don't think you can just say it was purely based on the logo and you know, they had a loss to a 9 and 3 Texas team which, you know, they came back and fought, man, that came much closer than it initially appeared to be. But I don't think Vanity's resume necessarily held up So I wasn't necessarily one of these people saying like they absolutely need to be in the College Football Playoff just because if you lack marquee wins still, it kind of doesn't matter who you are. You're gonna have a tough time if you have multiple losses.

B

Oh, agreed. And it's just interesting because not to do the whole thing about JMU or whatever, but I just would have loved to see that team because I don't think it would have been. Yeah, I don't think it would have been. I don't think it would have been bad watch. Either they're getting smashed and it's funny or they're hanging with a big team and you're like, whoa. So it's. Anyway, but that being said, we can, we can get down to it.

A

Confirmed. I would have rather seen Vandy than James Madison or Tulane. Like if we're being 100 honest, like that would have.

B

You're right.

A

Yeah, no, no doubt about it. Okay, so seven upsets, they will be huge talking points. You don't even have to watch the games. They're. They're all just. I'm just going to tell you exactly how they're gonna go right now. Okay. Texas A M wins at Bama. We've brought this up a bunch this offseason. The four game stretch that Bama has that could define their season in what I think is going to be their lowest preseason ranking since 2008. But that four game stretch, in case you forgot, Bama has home against Georgia, at Tennessee, home against Texas A M, then a buy, then at lsu. Bama will be coming off of what I expect to be two very physical games against Georgia and Tennessee, both of whom are teams that I think should be really solid in the trenches. Seeing a third consecutive team like that is going to be difficult, especially for a young Alabama offensive line. This is the exact type of game where I think Elko is different than Jimbo. And yes, Jimbo did save all the good plays for Bama, notoriously so he always did that. But going on the road and physically imposing his team's will was not something that Jimbo did well outside of 2020 when people had like coded Covid depleted rosters and all that stuff. He really didn't do that. Like, let's remember Mike Elko took over a program that had a 10 game road losing streak, so he's been able to kind of end that. And I do think it's very possible that Marcel Reed has a multi turnover game against what could be the best secondary in all of college football. I think the timing of this matchup favors A and M, who's going to have a de facto bye week the week before playing against the Citadel. This is going to be billed as a top 10 showdown with a pair of one loss teams and then it's going to follow a script that's similar to last year when Bama lost at home against Oklahoma. Just one of those games where it just feels like Bama can't quite get over the hump and an elite defensive minded head coach on the other side just kind of has Kaylan DeBoer's number.

B

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling Smart move. Another smart move getting help from one of State Farm's 19,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. You know, this is so funny because we just posted that quote where we were just like hyping up Kaylin DeBoer as the second best coach in the SEC. And I didn't factor in spinning that forward as like a prediction because that's how we do these exercises. We try to do them in a vacuum. And I'm thinking about it like, well, it could take a step back this year. This could look silly because, yeah, it just goes to the fact of how kind of competitive everything is and how they're kind of cycling fully on to the Kalyn DeBoer, you know, Persona as a team. And I think that A and M is like very well positioned right now. We talked about this, you know, one of our interviews where A and M is kind of, this is their do or die season. They've kind of impressed for the last two years. They've kind of not ended the year with a bang. End of the year with a little bit of. But that being said, you know, they, they, they have this year to really say, are we going to take Mike Oko seriously? Are we going to take A and M seriously? Finally, you know, they've been knocking on the door since Manziel was there and I think that's the type of win that really puts you there in a way that Jimbo Fisher couldn't. Because exactly to your point, beating Alabama when you're kind of out of it in the way that they did isn't the same as, hey, we're trying to pass Alabama in these standings here.

A

It's so funny that they beat Bama coming off two consecutive losses and they did so with Zach Calzada. Like, just makes no sense whatsoever. Question, did Marcus Freeman lose at home to A M last year? He did. Is Marcus Freeman still considered a top five, top six coach in the sport? He is. Did he go 10 and two last year? He did. I think Kaylin Deborah could overcome that. Like you're just gonna lose some of those types of games with a nine game conference schedule in the sec, wherein I don't think that separation is that great. And look, I've, I've said come coming into the year, on paper I think A M is a better team than Bama. So maybe this isn't even considered that much of an upset. But we're talking about in Tuscaloosa, so that has to be factored into it. But this is one of those games that you're, you're just going to see a lot more in the conference where you're like this. Maybe 6 times out of 10 it goes this way and then 4 times out of 10 it goes this way and it maybe all comes down to a couple plays here or there. And I think that's ultimately going to be the difference. And timing could dictate some of this. And I just think timing is a little bit more favorable for A M than it is for Bama. All right, Arkansas wins against Tennessee. Connor, you're crazy. What are you talking about? Arkansas is going to blow chunks this year. You're one Ryan Silverfield. You've seen how many new faces are on that roster. What are you talking about, man? Here's something crazy that doesn't really matter. But I do wonder about the college football gods because they are just sickos at heart. Can all agree, right? Like the college football guys are just. They are the sickos committee and increasingly more so.

B

They can't get off that stuff.

A

They can't. And they'll. They'll keep things in their back pocket for decades. They don't care. The Clint Sterner stumble and fumble infamously happened in 98. Famously happened in 98 if you're a Tennessee fan. Since then, Arkansas has a 6 in 5 record against Tennessee. Isn't that kind of crazy? On top of that, since that play happened, Arkansas is 5 and 1 against Tennessee and Fayetteville. 2024, you recall. Big win for Sam Pittman at the time. This game in fville, this is the midway point of the season. Game number six. And at this point of the year I think this very new look Arkansas team is going to have seen a lot to this point because they're all hardy faced Utah on the road, they'll have Georgia at home and then Texas A M at Kyle Field. No longer in Jerry world I think they're gonna have more of a feel for what K.J. jackson can and can't do. And Ron Roberts, the now Arkansas defense coordinator, he did have some success against the falls in 2024 when they last time they had a young quarterback when he was Ron Roberts was Florida D.C. i realized last year a little bit different story but possible night game. It won't be a noon game. We know that windows 3:30 or anywhere from 3:30 to 8:00 Eastern. We're talking about. Tennessee meanwhile has Bama on deck. It's the Vol's second true road game of the season and with all due respect to Bobby Dodd at Georgia Tech, I think that atmosphere is going to have a whole lot of Tennessee Orange probably in Atlanta who are going to make the trip for that one. Whereas this one maybe not as much, maybe not as much. Tennessee lost at Arkansas in a year in which it made the College Football Playoff. So I don't know that it's this total indictment, but I can close my eyes and just picture that happening again with Arkansas feeding Sutton Smith, a guy who's going to be at ICC media days coming over from Memphis. I think they're going to try and do a lot of things around him offensively and maybe it's just going to have that, that Jim Knowles defense kind of out of sorts. So I think, I think the reason I bring this up is because I think this loss could spiral into what is a brutal second half of this season for Josh Hyple and for Tennessee. And suddenly those questions about his future in Knoxville is going to be one of the big storylines in November. And while if I'm sitting here predicting today, like I think Josh Hyple ultimately returns, I don't think this is his undoing. This is the type of loss that gets those conversations starting and that if it's coupled with like a 6 and 6 season is the type of thing that makes Tennessee fans go, what are we doing? Have we picked, have we peaked already? Like this is. What are we talking about here? Like this is year six. This is where we're at right now. This isn't great. So that's why I included it on this list.

B

You know, I should have saved that head coaching point for right here because hypo is an even Better example where we can grade him based on what he's done, but that doesn't predict success in the future. I really see this one too, man. I really do. Just based on everything that you said, the fact that Tennessee, I think, is going to take a step back, I think that again, the thing for me, for Tennessee this year is they need to survive this season. I don't think anybody thinks Tennessee is going to be a contender this year, but it's going to be about getting the, you know, the defense in place, getting their feet under them after having a couple of different kind of regimes as far as your DC leaving your quarterbacks being kind of in and out. Like Josh Eiffel kind of needs a proof of concept that hits on all cylinders and he's been missing parts here and there and when that happens, these teams can spiral to your point. So, yeah, I actually see this one a little bit too clearly. It's starting to freak me out.

A

Isn't it kind of weird that the last few seasons with Tennessee we've had a similar, similar thought of can they just survive this? Is this a floor season like 24? I realized there's a lot of hype for Nico coming into that year and it's a team that made the College Football Playoff. I, I don't mean to diminish that, but the thought was, well, they're going to have to deal with some ebbs and flows and defensively, like they've got an all new secondary. Secondary ended up actually being really, really good if you recall, like Jad McCoy and his emergence with that group. It was the strength of that team. But it feels like we've asked this question more times than not with Tennessee and like the last time that we've gone into a year feeling like, oh man, like this Tennessee team is going to be very much up there in the conversation. I think was 22. Like, I didn't think that way about Joe Milton in 23 and 24. Even if I felt like, yeah, they got a real path to like nine and three, I wasn't sitting there saying, I, I think that they're absolutely going to make the College Football Playoff because of what, you know, if, even if Nico is, is really good, I, I still have questions defensively, but it just kind of feels like we've been, we've been saying that for a little while and I'm not saying it's wrong and maybe it's a little bit too reactionary, but you know, if that's still going to be in question by the midway point of the season. Yeah, this is. Vibes will not be good in Knoxville, that's for sure.

B

I think in 24, they fell on their face. I mean, you know, if we transport ourselves back to that bowl game against Iowa, we're sitting there going, oh, man, this Nico kitty. So smooth.

A

2023.

B

Yeah. Yeah, right. And like, kind of looking into the 2024 season and going like, oh, wow, like, this is the guy next year. I mean, things that we've, you know, yet to say about that player since it's so weird. The feedback after the Iowa game was, wow, he can do it all. He can use his legs a little bit. He can read the field. He seems so natural and so poised. And that player has just not shown up again past that Iowa game.

A

And so, that being said, non conference play, the early season.

B

This is kind of what I'm saying, though. At the beginning of that year, they were like, they were scary, and then they weren't. And I think once we saw. I think the Oklahoma game was where it started to really go, oh. And it kind of didn't ever get back to it. So I think within the preseason, Tennessee had expectations. That year, I think about a quarter of the season, you. We were surviving. But that doesn't mean that it was a survival team. It means that it was a team that I think was disappointing. Right. And so you're right, though. You can't have very many. You can't go. You know, you're up and then you're let down, then you're surviving, then you're surviving forever in the sec or you just get fired.

A

A. A very interesting thing that we're going to see play out this year. Your established coach loses to a year one coach. A lot of new faces in the sec. Not sure if you've heard that can be a tough thing to stomach. A really tough thing for perception. And it kind of is the ultimate. What are we doing? If they just had that type of rebuild and we can't even beat them with a year and they have a year one coach, where are we going? Like, what are we doing? If this is the type of game that can make that thought all of a sudden become a lot more real for Tennessee. Okay, another one here. Speaking of Year one coaches, Florida wins against Ole Miss. Yeah. What I think is a fair takeaway from Florida's year one moves with John Somerall is that they're going to catch someone. I'm not sitting here telling you Florida is going to be in the playoff on November I won't do that. I mean, they really caught someone every year with Billy. If you think about it too, like you go look back, Texas last year, ole Miss in 24, Tennessee in 23. When Tennessee was number 11 team in the country in September. Yes, it was Tennessee in the swamp, but still. And then Utah in the season opener in 22. Ole Miss has a gauntlet schedule. Okay, very well documented, but they're going to be coming off the LSU game that is going to have so many emotions on the line. As we know, if you win that game, which I'm sitting here today predicting Ole Miss will beat LSU on September 19, that's going to feel like winning the Super Bowl. That's going to be a huge emotional high for that program. Having to turn around and then play in a true road game in a hostile atmosphere against the defense that's number one in the country. And Bill Connolly's percentage of returning defensive production, that's tough. That's really tough. Mini revenge game for John Sumrall in some ways got struck by Ole Miss twice last year. Then in his season at Tulane, he was probably going to lean heavily on Brad White who last year at Kentucky did things to Austin Simmons that made it a real four quarter game. I realized Austin Simmons not the quarterback at Ole Miss anymore very much not the quarterback in part because of that game, but similar system that, you know, you were able to have some success against that Ole Miss is going to be running. But there is, this is where I think Florida having those veterans on that defense, especially up front like a Cameron James having, you know, like having those dudes that are, that are just like in that front seven that know where they're going and just kind of have an answer that's going to be really important. And once that place kind of smells blood, I think they're able to take over and that atmosphere will be a little bit too much for Ole Miss. So that'll be one of those early season upsets in which we, we kind of throw up our hands and go, wow, the SEC is going to be kind of crazy this year, isn't it?

B

Man, I disagree with you often, but so far I'm like, I see all of these now. I will have one caveat. If I were to sit here today, predict lsu, Ole Miss, I, I would also predict Ole Miss. Right, but let's say LSU wins that game. Does that cause this game to.

A

Okay, that changes it. I agree. But so yeah, if, if all sudden Ole Miss has two losses before October, Vegas knew something. Vegas knew Conor didn't know that. I'll hand up, I'll admit I'm wrong on that.

B

I think that they are going one, one and one in that stretch. I think that's what it is. I think if, if, like LSU wins, they beat Florida. I think if they beat lsu, they lose to Florida. I'm right there with you. And I mean, it's funny to, to shout out that Brad White, like, basically took Austin Simmons job too, because it's like, you know, that goes into the hirings that John Sumrall has made. It goes into again, the revenge factor with the two lane game where it's like, hey, how do you like me now? Like, you beat me. I was at Tulane. That's why I took this job, so I could come back. And, you know, and, and I think those are two coaches that are going to be super interesting to watch. Both kind of players, coaches, fiery guys. Again, I want to see John Sumrall more on camera. He's like, very funny and interesting, but two guys that I think are jockeying for just like that unproven next year of guys that could be elite could be. Okay, we'll see. And so, yeah, I think this could be the super bowl for Florida. Whereas if Ole Miss wins the previous game, they've already kind of won their Super Bowl. Like, I mean, honestly around that game, I'm getting to a point where we need to just stop talking Ole Miss, LSU about that game because, like, what else do you know? It's like, it's like every time, it's like, oh, what do you think about this? It's like, I have no comment. Pete Golding, no comment on L. Kiffin. It's like, so I think no matter what, after that game, the tendrils of that game are going to bleed into the next week. And, and so you could be smelling, you know, be drinking your own Kool Aids, a little bit of rat poison, and get caught by a Florida team. That again, Johnson's an internally very angry guy and I think he wants one like this.

A

And especially if Florida is coming off a loss at Auburn, which that's what I have mapped out here. So that's. And look, I don't want to do the thing. And I realized that that game, if Florida were to be an Ole Miss team that I think should start in the top 10 in the preseason, that's the type of game that a lot of people will say, like, see, this is why John Summerall was so coveted. Like, I'm not saying people are wrong for, for Doing that. We've seen a lot of Florida coaches have year one success and have these moments where we're like, oh, my God, look what they're about to do. And then it turns out the way that it does. It would be a really nice proof of concept win for John Summerall if

C

he can get it.

B

Okay.

A

Home SEC debut. You know that you're trying to be able to. To show those people I am different than these predecessors in the poster Meyer era. Winning against Ole Miss, that would be a really nice feather in his cap early on.

B

And I think just be mid year one, you got to buck the trend. Every Florida coach is great year, what we've seen. I don't need to go back. Billy. Was it first game? Come on now.

A

Yeah, first game.

C

That's something.

A

You know what I'm saying?

B

It was like starting with a bag every time. It was like, whoa, what do we got here? Summerl just needs to chill. He just needs to not make headlines that year, too. It's like, look, I'm different from everyone else.

A

Yeah. I remember being there 2018 at the Swamp when Florida beat LSU. They beat that Joe Burrow team. That was still very much your way, obviously. But LSU had started off and was, I believe, number five in the country, I want to say, at the time of that. And my takeaway was like, oh, my God, Dan Mullen's exactly what Florida needed, even though they'd already lost to Kentucky at that point in the season. But still, yes, we could. We do these things all the time with Florida coaches, and it would be. It would be good. But let's just keep everything in check, okay? Oklahoma wins at Georgia. You're about to sense a theme here. Oklahoma is the agent of chaos within the SEC this year, and maybe they're going to end up being the agent of chaos in all of college football. I think probably not, because you would have to have coach firings and. And quarterbacks hitting the portal. That would probably have to impact more of that. Like a roster that could all of a sudden just be up for grabs. Everybody would just be chomping at the bit to get pieces of. So maybe not from that standpoint, but specifically in the sec, I think Oklahoma has a ton of chaos possibilities. So we know that Georgia is no longer holding on to the nation's longest home winning streak because of last year's loss to Alabama. In other words, like, when you sit here and predict Georgia to lose a home game, it's not as crazy as it once was. So keep that in mind. This is a prime example though of a team that knows its flaws already against a team that doesn't. Georgia schedule before this is cake.

B

Okay.

A

Tennessee State, Western Kentucky at Arkansas, I'd expect at the time of this game

B

pretty similar teams really.

A

Yeah, very, very similar. We don't sleep on Tyson Helton, but yeah, let's just say I don't expect Georgia to all of a sudden be like, wow, we're playing in 60 minute games multiple times start off the season if that's happening. We're having different conversations. I would expect that by the time Oklahoma comes to Georgia in what will be the second matchup ever between those two teams as we talked about with the adjustment more that we did on the Rose Bowl, Georgia is going to be in the top three, maybe the top two, perhaps very minimal adversity to that point in the second half. And Oklahoma meanwhile will have already traveled to Michigan. And don't sleep on my, my Group of 5 playoff pick, New Mexico. Making that not, not a 60 minute game, but a game in which Oklahoma starters are on the field longer than what maybe the casual fan is expecting. So Oklahoma will have already gone into a hostile atmosphere TBD on whether or not they have success there. It will have already faced a physical team like what Kyle Whittingham will have this year at Michigan in year one. And in a battle of Venables versus Bobo. I'm gonna take Venables in this one. I am. And you're also going to have the ability to run John Mater a lot knowing that the bye week follows. So you have a week before the Texas game, week before Red river for him to be able to rest up. I don't believe the gap between these two teams is that great. And maybe that in itself is, is a hot take. And it wouldn't surprise me if the takeaway from this game is, is that the best unit on the field is Oklahoma's defense, which is just stacked at every single level with dudes. I think Oklahoma exposes that Georgia is just not a finished product with its offensive identity and what it ultimately needs to be to, to have its, its highest ceiling in 2026. And I think Oklahoma, much like what we talked about with A and M and Bama, one of these games that can go back and forth, Oklahoma makes just enough plays to win like a 24 to 21 type game.

B

Now I'm, I'm gonna ask this question knowing there's really no way we can know the answer right now. But what do you think about Oklahoma's offensive line Slash run game, as we

A

said here, still a massive question mark. It's, it's a massive question mark until it's not. And they basically said last year, we're gonna just trust that an experience is going to be our best friend in 2026. Because they knew that they were going to be young in that area last year and inexperienced in 2025. Means you're a lot more well versed to handle that in 2026. And having a guy like Michael Fazusi at your left tackle spot is kind of the, the, you know, the microcosm of that. I still don't know that you can set it and forget it with that run game outside of material. So I'm not going to pretend that that's imminent. They should be better on that offensive line. They just, I, I gotta think that they have the improvements there. The addition of Kevin Wilson in the running game too is kind of an important thing for what they're trying to do. So I, I think they'll be improved. And I think having a healthy version of Mater elevates the floor of that run game. Though obviously as we've said a million times, it can't just be John Mateer.

B

So the reason I asked that question, and that definitely makes sense is like Oklahoma seems like a mid 2010s or I guess like late 2000s, early 2010s SEC team that was just dropped in the modern SEC. Like they have a defense that is like solid tip to tail. They do they pride themselves on not giving up these chunk plays and playing hard nosed defense in an era where no one's really committed to that in the way that Oklahoma is. Some teams are obviously don't want to go through them, but they are a top 1% team in terms of you don't want to play us, we're going to make this hard. And on the other end they have like a kind of figure that is harder and harder to find, like a Jim McMahon, Stephen Garcia, Johnny Manzo quarterback. That's basically just like I'm just going to die on this field if I have to. I'm just going to basically will my team to win. They have a, a bonafide number one receiver and they get chunk plays through just kind of throwing it up to them sometimes and it's like this weird team. When you kind of look around the conference you're like nobody's really doing what they're doing and a team like that can really throw a wrench in what you're doing because again if you're Georgia and you're kind of just. And again, I know Kirby Smart, 60 minute football culture program, all that, but until you see what Vells is cooking up, you really can't anticipate it, even if your Kirby's smart, because they're. They just come from different defensive philosophies. Like, it's like, hey, I'm a great chef in this discipline. I'm a great chef in this discipline. It's kind of different. And so that being said, I. I'm with you. I could see the early advantage in this game going to Oklahoma. Now, that being said, one thing that a quarterback like that brings you, which is why they're not as common anymore, is you will have some of the most duck grenade turnovers. And that's what we saw last year. Now, how much of that was injury? I think if, I think if Mattier can clean that up this year, he becomes such a fundamentally different player. He's a guy that is running when it's a good idea. He's a guy that's taking a chance when it's a good idea. Not because he feels like he has to, or if he feels like, oh, if he gets hit, it's gonna be a problem, or if he feels like he's gonna take a hit despite the defense to show that he can get hit is what it felt like sometimes. So I say all that to say this is a nightmare. Pandora's mystery box of an Oklahoma team. And if you're Georgia and you love to be on script as they do, you don't want to see them this early in the season.

A

Yeah, and I think that's going to be the challenge, knowing that we're projecting material to be healthy at this point and if he's got everything on the table and he's looking like the guy that has acknowledged his flaws this off season, it just changes you. And like, just to, to piggyback on the point about the Oklahoma, the Oklahoma run game last year and why it was. It was such a tough watch. I mean, part of this, and this isn't just to make excuses for him because obviously things happen and you have to be able to, to adjust, especially in this conference. But like, you spend 800 grand on the jade knot thing and just could have gone worse. Like, you just get nothing out of that. Where you invested heavily in that position to think that you have a bona fide power conference starter who should be one of the best running backs in college football. And you just get nothing out of that. And then material being Banged up, down the stretch, they couldn't do anything in the ground game. And I'm just not necessarily sold on the notion that this year will be the same exact thing with what should be a more experienced offensive line. So, like, some units can overcome that. They were not one of them. And so I think they'll be a little bit more multifaceted offensively. I don't know that they're going to set the world on fire and be this team that averages 35 points a game, because that's just not going to ever be what Brent Venables wants to do. Like, he wants to play ball, control football. But I think you have a quarterback that can do enough of those things, enough of those wizardry type things against a defense like Kirby Smarts to. To be able to go into that atmosphere and win.

B

So, yeah, I'll say really quick. I think that's a microcosm of, of, you know, Oklahoma, and that's why I asked that question at the jump, which is that if you were Kirby Smart, you want John Matier dropping back those extra 20 times or 15 times he had to last year to make something happen. Whereas if you're John Mattier, you want to be able to take a playoff, hand the ball off, get the, like, read the defense, get a free one in there. I think that changes them so fundamentally.

A

Yeah, definitely. Okay, let's continue the Oklahoma conversation then. Oklahoma wins against Texas. Yeah, this would be an upset. Maybe someone disagree with that. Three of the four times that Brent Venables has been part of the Red river rivalry as a head coach, he watched his offense fail to score a touchdown against Pete Kwiakowski's defense.

B

Well, good news. They fired that guy because he. They thought he sucked.

A

So, you know who isn't at Texas anymore is Pete Kwiatkowski. That's not to say that Texas is definitely going to be bad on the defensive side of the ball. Lord knows Coach Boom has done many great things being able to coach up defenses in this conference. All right, we're not going to sit here and pretend like Will Muschamp is all of a sudden just this Basura defensive coordinator. Even if it's something that he's doing in that way for the first time in a decade with total autonomy on that side of the ball. But I wonder, Will, if this is like in baseball when a starter goes seven innings and his stuff is nasty and he's just mowing dudes down left and right and then the manager brings in the reliever because maybe the starter's pitch count gets a little bit high and hitters just exhale and they're so relieved to see someone else. I remember when that would happen in high school baseball, and it was the best feeling ever of like, this dude for 5 innings just cooked us. And you mean to tell me that I'm gonna get to face somebody new? I don't care if this guy's throwing gas. I'm ready to just see something new other than this herky jerky lefty that just struck me out looking three different times. So, like, I am of the belief that Oklahoma could benefit from that and that could just be how this, this type of matchup goes with what they need to be able to go over that mental hurdle. Because right now I think you look at these results and say Oklahoma has a Texas problem offensively, not necessarily defensively. I would argue actually defensively they've done some good things. They did some good things last year and then Texas was able to kind of break things open. But I have this as the lone regular season loss for Texas. So this isn't necessarily some passing of the torch necessarily. Like, I have Oklahoma missing the College Football Playoff but winning this game. I think John Mateer has been haunted by how poorly he played in this one. Post, Dr. Shin, post Chipotle, all that stuff. And having already faced the likes of Michigan and Georgia, I think Oklahoma is going to know the level that it needs to get to to win a game like this. Having a healthier version of John Mateer against a new look Texas defense, I think that's the difference. And Oklahoma gets a huge how do you like me now win.

B

So what's interesting here is this reminds me of one of my favorite moments that kind of went under the radar when Lane Kiffin beat Kojo in 2021 and he greeted him at midfield and there was this look of like sympathy or shock on late Kiffin's face. He's like, hey, you guys were sitting in cover three that whole game. Like, it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

A

He's like, well, I don't know.

B

Coacho just walked away. And it's like, I don't think to your point that Coach Boom is Basura. I think it's very hard to call defensive plays in the sec. I think getting a break for the extended period of time that he has can hurt you. And I think that after Brent Venables already sees Kirby Smart and that defensive staff they have over there, those are the influences that I think, you know that Moshe is going to pull from. And, and when things go wrong for him, when you get sideways, where does your mind go? Probably your most immediate stop. And the things that he was in the meeting rooms with Georgia very recently. And so that being said, I could see a reality where Brent Venables, after studying tape on Georgia and after studying tape on Texas is going, I know what they're doing on defense. I, I've figured this out. Basically, Muschamp hasn't had enough time to adapt to his second and third things that he's doing. He hasn't, you know, adapted from his early season stuff that he's still trying to install and make sure it works and everything. And I could see Venables kind of getting over to the side, talking to the offense and being like, here's what you're going to see today. Don't screw it up. Because I think the chess match between him and Sark is great and I hope it continues honestly, in perpetuity, because we're talking about, again, the best defensive mind maybe in the sport, according to Gene Chisik. You know, don't listen to us, listen to him. And then offensively, I still think probably a top five play caller in the sport. And that's, that's given. But so it's going to be the other side of the ball, usually. And I think that that is a matchup where Venables as a defensive mind

A

really helps you, I think, to. It's not that it's going to be a game in which Arch falls apart and it's, it's awful. It's going to be a game in which maybe it's a little bit more high scoring than what we saw last year, which is insane. A whole lot. And it's a game in which your mistakes can define you. And maybe it's, hey, Oklahoma has had two straight touchdown drives and you just need to get something out of that Texas offense and this is just the worst possible time for a three and out or a turnover deep in your own end. And that's the type of thing that it happens. So I don't, I don't necessarily look at this as like, oh, this is the game that everybody's going to be confirmed by saying that Arch is overrated in the preseason. Like, I don't necessarily think that, but Oklahoma ceiling is going to be darn good. It's going to be really, really good. What's their floor? It's a different question. Speaking of that question, Mississippi State wins against Oklahoma. That's right. Remember I said, Oklahoma is going to be the agent of chaos in the sec. Yeah, three of these, three of the seven upsets that I have outlined, Oklahoma's involved. I think this is a game in which Oklahoma looks back on and just kicks itself in every possible way. Because I have ou going 9 and 3 and I think they're gonna end up sitting there in the first week of December making some very familiar playoff arguments that we've seen from nine and three teams so far in the 12 team era. Much like Texas last year, much like Alabama the year before that. They'll go, yeah, we have three losses, but we can play with anybody. The tough part for Oklahoma will be when the selection committee will look back on the resume and go, why'd you drop that game at Mississippi State? Why'd you do that? I think John Mateer struggles against the unique prep of the Zach Arnett 335. If this game is in mid September, I'm picking Brent Venables against an inexperienced quarterback. And I'm just saying Oklahoma will win this one maybe by a couple of touchdowns. But I think there are going to be a handful of Saturdays this year. More people are catching on to this. I've been trying to kind of get out there with this take and since the Manning Passing Academy, a lot more people have jumped on board with this. But there are going to be a handful of Saturdays this year in which we go, man, I don't know about Jeff Levy's future, but I know Camario Taylor's special and that guy is fun. This will be one of those days. Two or three times we're just gonna wonder, how did that Brent Venables pressure not get home? That always gets home. How did this guy find a way to escape it and make something out of nothing to be able to move the sticks? This ends up being a massive game for Jeff Levy, one that he and his boss, Zach Selman, they're going to take a lot of pride in a couple of former OU guys, all right. Both of whom with degrees from there. I think Jeff Levy graduated last I checked. Maybe, I don't know. Zach Salmon's got like an NBA from there or something like that. Maybe it's the difference in Jeff Levy staying versus getting fired. But perhaps more of note nationally, it could be the game that keeps a very dangerous Oklahoma team out of the playoff.

B

Yes, confirmed. Jeff Levy does have an Oklahoma degree. So yeah, I never sure if those

A

guys graduate or if like they leave a little earlier. Yeah, you just. In a Stetson Bennett world, we can't assume anything.

B

That's a good point. Yeah. So I think at this point it's fair to just say I think you've kind of done this in the aggregate. But what do you have Oklahoma's record. Which games you have Oklahoma losing?

A

9 and 3. 9 3. And I think 9 and 3 can look very different at a place like Oklahoma.

B

Right.

A

Wherein 9 and 3 could actually be like really impressive. But I have them losing at Michigan. Remember I have Michigan making the College Football Playoff this year and then losing to Mississippi State and then losing at home against Ole Miss, which maybe you could argue like that would be a game worth including here. I don't consider that as, as, as big of an upset because I have Ole Miss holding on to that top 10 status kind of throughout the year and being a team that gets to the SEC championship, this is just a horrifying schedule.

B

Wow. I mean I'm just. Yeah, the at Michigan game and he really just puts the cherry on top of this because yeah, it's like pick. I, I don't see a way this team wins 10 games in the regular season. If they do, it's like, you know, again we have a win at Georgia in there. Like it's, there's so many and against Texas I've been. Georgia.

A

Yeah, Texas. And getting left out of the playoff will. That's how tough the schedule is.

B

I feel like you're at least, I mean with those quality wins would be interesting. But again to your point about can't lose Mississippi State as we, you know,

A

nine of three teams haven't made the playoff yet. You know, like that's the thing we're still waiting on and you could tell me all Clemson Clems got an automatic bid in 24 because it won the ACC. Yeah.

B

Right.

A

So like until we see those nine three teams that are rewarded, I, I can't sit here and pretend like it would be the case. If I'm an Oklahoma fan. I'm frustrated. I'm really frustrated when you consider how good the wins could be and you would have a legitimate case. But I, again, we need to see that happen when we're still seeing 10 and two teams get left out. We just talk about Vandy getting left out at 10 and 2. Like there's been, I think six 10 and 2 teams who have not played in a conference championship game who have been left out of the 12 team playoffs so far. Like it's, it's tough man. It's really tough.

B

So you do have them beating A M then at the End of the

A

year, have Oklahoma beating A and M. Yeah. And A also getting left out of the playoff.

B

Yep. Yeah, this is here. Yeah, let's. Let's all agree to watch Oklahoma next year because this is, this is going to be the team. You know, when I see him show up kind of three times in a row here, I'm like, how impactful could they be? No, a lot of these games are going to be coin flip games. If you have them winning a couple of games that they shouldn't, you know, they're gonna. And that's how teams just work. You know, you get too high, too low, whatever. I could certainly see. It'd be hard to see them kind of sweeping Michigan with all, like, the improvements Michigan's made that game being at home now. So. I see that. So sorry, I hate to take that all the way back. Oh, no, I don't. Because I think it's relevant here. When you say, oh, in a vacuum, sure, Mississippi State winning this game sounds wild, but when you factor in how beaten up this Oklahoma team is going to be, and again, to your point, if Matir gets hurt, like, this is not probably a great football team. This is probably a team that's really fighting in the end of some of these games. And so, yeah, I could see they're likely going to drop one of those games in the clear part of their schedule. It's a pick them. Could it be Mississippi State? Could it maybe be Kentucky? Maybe South Carolina? I think at Florida. I mean, those. How about this? Those games are all in a row. They. They would be. It would be shocking to me if they went undefeated through Kentucky at Miss State, South Carolina at Florida games. They should probably be favored pretty handily in most of those games, but that's just not how the SEC works. You could sell me probably any of these, but again, going on the road. So I'd probably say either at Florida or at Mississippi State would be. Would be the one.

A

It's just a really unforgiving schedule. You know, it just is. Like you can, you can tell yourself. And, and I, you know, we had this conversation with Chris Plank and I'm. I guess I'm kind of talking on both sides of my mouth by saying this, but like the first half of the schedule is. Is really difficult knowing that Michigan. And I'm saying this because I have all this mapped out. I'm looking over here on the side in my notes here, like knowing that you have Michigan and Georgia and Texas in the front half of the schedule all the way from Norman that's, that's really difficult in itself. And then oh, by the way, if you're able to get through that, if you're high volume running quarterback who like, even if they do have those improvements in the ground game, like John Mateer is going to take a beating, like he's just going to take a beating in this conference, a nine game conference schedule. And then if you get through all that, you still have two games in November against the likes of Ole Miss and A M. Oh, by the way, I didn't even include the game at Florida that, that will be on the, the back half of that schedule that you'll have to get through. It's just very unforgiving. And so if Oklahoma gets to, to the playoff this year at 10 and 2 again, we're going to give Brent Venables his flowers because that road to get there, man, let's not pretend that this is just the same road that Oklahoma had in the Big 12. It's not. And this year is really a good example of, of what it could look like. Again, we're having these conversations in the preseason. Maybe the strength of schedule will look different, maybe the wins won't age as well, but man, Oklahoma will earn that playoff bid if it gets it this year.

B

And I'll say too, if they're 9 and 3 and they beat Texas and Georgia, I bet OU fans are thrilled with that, honestly, even if they get left out because you've beaten your rival and you've beaten kind of the class of the SEC and you're saying, hey, the schedule sucks, we belong here. I think it would be very short sighted after a season like that.

A

Yeah, they, they would have a better feeling about that than some of those teams that won the Big 12.

B

Oh yeah.

A

Easy as that. Sounds like they would have a better feeling about that team, about maybe this team than they would like 2019, even where they saw how far apart they were from the national champs. And this I do think is going to be. We know, we know. Justin Jefferson, thank you for that.

C

We.

B

We.

A

I, I'm, I shouldn't say we. I have been saying I think this is Brian Fennable's best team. I really do. I just don't know that your best team in this era of the sport, in the conference that you, you chose to join is going to yield the best possible result.

B

God, they would be chilling in the Big 12 too. They really, they chose. That's the thing. You really can't feel bad for them because they chose this smoke. In a way, we Talked about Lincoln Riley ran from it. We talked about, you know, all kinds of teams that position themselves or whatever. They really said, you know what, winning 11 games every year is just boring. We're going to get there and play Georgia and Texas and didn't try and

A

cancel the Michigan home and home as well. Like Oklahoma wanted that smoke for a while. You could make, maybe make the case they didn't want that smoke. I, I think Oklahoma, if there's one thing that's changed under Brent Venables, they, they are confirmed seekers of smoke. No doubt about it.

B

Absolutely.

A

All right, last one here. Ole Miss wins against Georgia. Depending on kind of how you look at these teams, if you choose to remember what happened in the Sugar bowl, maybe you wouldn't say this is an upset. I think this game determines a spot in the SEC Championship. Ole Miss is the team that's going to have everything to lose in this one. Having already lost two games, feeling like it's fighting for its playoff life. Georgia's lone loss would be the aforementioned Oklahoma game. I've seen Trinidad do things to the Kirby smart defense that very few can do. In both of those games. Like seven of eight quarters that he played against Georgia, you're like, this cat is special. Part three of Trinidad versus Gunner. I think it should be a dandy, should be awesome. I mean, those are my two best quarterbacks in the sec. Two of the best quarterbacks in all of college football. I'd expect another shootout because why wouldn't we? I do worry a little bit about, you know, what we talked about last week with Q on Lacey, health wise, knowing that this is going to be the fifth consecutive SEC game for Ole Miss without any bye weeks sandwiched in there and having to face George at the end of that, like, that's really difficult. But this is where that running back depth should help them out. You asked last week about Ole Miss having a backup option to Kewon Lacey, and I had remembered that they had added a couple of guys from the Portal, but, like, didn't remember specific names. Just remembered feeling like, oh, they do actually have that address. Didn't have that off the top of my head. So that's why we didn't go down that road. They added Joshua Dye, who was a Walter Payton Award finalist, which is the award given to the best offensive player at the FCS level. He had 1800 rushing yards and 28 touchdowns at Southern Utah last year. Eight more rushing scores than any FCS player had over a thousand yards after first contact. Like, dude was a stud last season. And then they added Makai Frazier, who had a couple of hundred yard games last year, as kind of a change of pace back at Michigan State. That group, I think, is going to be able to complement Trinidad and allow for them to not feel like they need to put it all on Kiwan Lacey in the way that they did last year, where maybe you could make the case in that Miami game, he runs out of gas.

B

Okay?

A

So I think that this is going to allow Ole Miss to all of a sudden feel like, oh, my God, we have a direct path to the SEC Championship. It's there. It's sitting in front of us. And I realize I'm dumb.

B

Okay?

A

Like, I. I'm gonna say this a lot over the course of the next week, two weeks, whatever, that I am dumb for predicting Georgia to miss the SEC Championship for the first time since 2020. It's wild to think about the fact that Kirby has been to eight of the last nine SEC championships. And we do this thing so season where we just don't want to be boring. So we just say, like, oh, hey, let's try and go against the most boring thing. And the most boring thing is saying that George is going to be in the SEC Championship. I am guilty as charged on that front. Okay. But Georgia fans, would you really hate missing out on the SEC Championship if Georgia still gets to 10 and 2 and hosts a home playoff game? No. You'd be okay. You'd sleep just fine. It would not be sky's falling. Everything would be business as usual.

B

Well, that's one way to get a night game assigned for stadium.

A

This game in Oxford. In Oxford.

B

No, I'm saying if you host a home playoff game.

A

Oh, yeah, yeah. Cool.

B

There you go. It's like, hey, get some gate revenue. You get a prime time game. Come on.

A

They get the noon slot. They get the noon slot on Saturday instead. And it just has the feel of like, SMU, like at. Penn State a couple of years ago.

B

Kirby's crazy enough to be like, we tried. The bike didn't work. We're gonna try something else anyway, so. No, you know, it's actually, you know, I was kind of looking up and down this. We're not even predicting that winning in Tuscaloosa is an upset for Georgia.

A

No, no, I. I don't think you can. I. I don't think that would feel as much like, oh, man. Like, that goes against the grain in the preseason. Just because we saw them play in the SEC Championship, albeit different teams, and Georgia won that despite what Kaylin Deborah tried to tell you in the post game press conference when he's making a case for the College Football Playoff, Georgia won that game pretty lopsidedly. And I, I wouldn't necessarily sit here and go like, oh, my God, that's. That's changing, you know, national perception. I think it would confirm a lot of how we feel about these teams in the preseason.

B

Just, it's just worth noting, right? Like, that's so much the Caleb Devore DNA that, like, okay, you can't just come in here and beat me. And he's got, quote, unquote, he's got Kirby's number. I know we talked about that with kind of avenging that loss last year in the SEC Championship game. But as we know, winning in Tuscaloosa is very hard to do. So I just wanted to shout that one out. But this would be, gosh, such a hilarious. I mean, just. Just an absolute gift to the still somehow suffering Georgia fans where it's like, okay, if we beat Alabama, we don't play for the sec. But again, if you're Georgia specifically, I'm going to make this case specifically to Georgia winning the SEC doesn't really matter that much because you've already done it so many times in the last couple of years. It didn't really equate to much. Like, if you're Ole Miss, if you're Texas A and M, if you're LSU under Lane Kiffin. Matters a ton to make the championship game and to win it, and to the point where if you get embarrassed in the playoff, it's like a winning season for you. If you just do that with Georgia, they're at a different point. So I think that this would be such an interesting, chaotic season to say, okay, where does Georgia actually fit up here if they're not playing in the SEC Championship game, but they're beating Alabama, but they're losing at the end of the year, so I could see it. I think it's going to go a little bit differently. It would be easier for me to imagine, you know, again, a loss at Alabama versus, like, winning one of these upsets because they tend to. That's one thing that's kind of underrated about Kirby is that he doesn't really lose these sneaker games anymore. At the beginning of his career, he had your South Carolina game and, like, you know, random teams jumping up and beating them here or there. But I, I think that they would go a little bit closer to the book. But I could also very easily see them missing the Championship game.

A

Yeah. And this just speaks to how I think the SEC looks this year. I don't think there's just a ton of that separation at the top, you know, and maybe teams kind of like one through six, really, really similar, like, separated by, like, a touchdown in a given game. And if Georgia loses to the likes of Oklahoma and Ole Miss, it'll be a reflection of that. And it won't necessarily mean all of a sudden like, oh, man, they can't win a national championship. Depends on a lot of other things, of course, going into that. But, yeah, George is the only team that can win the SEC and not have anybody change their opinion about them and have their fans go, yeah, that doesn't really change how we feel about, like, what their. Their ceiling is all of a sudden, you know, unless all of a sudden the SEC just has four of the top seven teams in the country and then you win, you know, going away and you're undefeated in conference play. Then. Then we're having different conversations, probably. But it would still all be about how healthy are we going into the postseason, what are we going to do differently that we didn't do the last two years in the playoff. All those things would probably go into it. But, yeah, I mean, I'm dumb. I'm done for not predicting Georgia to make it to an SEC championship, like, hand up.

C

All right.

A

Have you thought about that yet of your SEC championship pick, how you're going to fill out that ballot when we're at SEC media days next week?

B

I think I'm going to sit down, like in the next couple days or this weekend and really do exactly what you're talking about. You know, it's so much more fun to just be hot, take guy to your point, be like, oh, 10 win team, nine win team. But you're right, it's kind of unfair because when you go talk to people that are so dialed into their teams and they know all the ins and outs of this game, and if you're like kind of a national level guy, where it's like, oh, we talk about every team. And so I could say this is. I could go on this radio show and say, this is a 101 team. Go on this radio show and this is. Say this is a 101 team. And so, yeah, I think you're right. I think I need to just go through and predict the entire season and then be horribly wrong, like we all are every year. Unless we pick Alabama, Georgia somehow. I think. I think that's what I'm going to do. And I'll be locked in for media days.

A

I have some of these here that we'll get to at a later date of records, and we'll go through, like, order, finish and all that stuff at some point here. But I'll be honest, there were a few teams that I looked at, and you're right. You have to go through the schedule before you can truly know how you feel about a specific team. And it makes a big difference. All right, so that's how I have this point out. And again, like, I have other ones, like South Carolina beating Tennessee at home. Maybe that's considered a big preseason upset. I. I don't know how much, you know, how much that'll be considered an upset at the time. We'll see, like, Mizzou beating Florida at home. Maybe not consider an upset, considering Mizzou won eight games last year in Florida, 1, 4. But I just wanted to highlight those seven because I think they'll have big ramifications on the conference playoff picture. Hot seat things, all those different things. So do your own upsets at home in the preseason, not just the week of. It's more fun to do in the preseason anyway.

B

All right. And don't let me get, you know, I'm gonna be talking to players and stuff. Don't let me get captivated by a story and be like, wow, you know, love this young Green guy.

A

You're going 3 and 9 next year, and I don't care how likable you are.

B

Yeah, yeah. No, that's. It's. It's. It's. It's really like we talked about. I get so excited for media days a couple years in a row that we've gone because you. You do get to see that side of it. But at the same time, it's so easy when you hear these coaches talk because they have, you know, image coaches or they have people that coach them up. You get to the end and you're like, they all think they're going 10 to 2, don't they? Some of them defeated.

A

They do. They do. And sadly, they all cannot. All right. A guy who knows a thing or two about going undefeated. Gene Chisik, great to talk some ball, which is. He discussed kind of what his last few years have been like, thoughts on modern offenses. Of course, we had to bring up some. Some 2010 Auburn stuff and a lot more. So here's our guy, Gene Chisik, now excited to be joined by a very special guest. It is one of my favorite people. It is Jean Chisik. Chiz it is so good to see you. It's been great seeing you back with SEC Network these last couple years. Before we talk about your life the last few years or so and talk a little ball for Those on the YouTube audience who are watching this, maybe not seeing like your typical, like, you know, your typical background, your, your situation right now a little bit different than normal. I got to know about your last couple weeks. Is, is everything okay on with, with the house right now and everything? Dealing with a little bit of adversity with the, on the home front?

C

Yeah, a lot of sudden change, Connor. A lot of sudden change. Man. My football days are coming back to me and they're paying dividends. So, yes, we have had a little bit of a catastrophic issue with our home with a little flooding issue while my wife and I were out of town. So we are presently in a rental and we are learning to live back when her and I were together with no children in a two bedroom apartment. Feels very similar, which we're good with. We have no problem with that. But it's been, yes, it's been an interesting journey dealing with insurance and things of that nature. But hey, man, like I tell everybody, you know, when they, my neighbors are like, hey, are you moving? Are you selling your house? No, guys, our house flooded and we got to move out for a while and get some renovations going. And they're like, oh my God, God, that's terrible. And I'm like, hey, dude, first world problems, like there's way, there's way bigger problems out there than we got. So it's all good, man. We just, we keep rolling with the punches and like I said, it's, it's sudden change.

A

That's what you do. I know that one of the places that you still call home is Auburn. Your old pal Gus returned to Auburn and people are like, he's going back to, to live there like in his retirement. And I, I think to me like, that's the ultimate sign that a place is special, that two fired coaches would willingly return to that community because they love it so much. Have you been able to meet up with, with Gus post retirement?

C

Well, we're trying to get together initially. When he retired, he hit me up and we went back and forth on what our plans were. So he's got a place in Destin about 15 minutes from us. So the, that he, he was trying to do some things back in Arkansas and get everything kind of situated, you know, when you retire and this is a new world for you, like there's a lot of moving parts. Like, you think everybody just goes and chills on the beach. That's not, that's not the way it happens. So him and I've connected in terms of trying to get together when we're either both in Auburn or we're both, you know, in Destiny. And we've, we've texted back and forth, we've. I talked on the phone with him and we definitely are trying to get kind of, you know, in sync, but he's got a lot of things going on right now. So do I. I think it'll slow down a little bit kind of once the season starts. Believe it or not, you know, he's on the College Football Playoff committee now, as you guys well know. So he'll have some duties there, but, you know, then I'll do have my TV duties. But yeah, it's a. It's a very unique place. Gus and I have touched base. We will definitely get together at some point. Don't know exactly when that's going to happen.

B

So, Coach, plenty of people talk about kind of the hectic nature of coaches, like just day to day lives, right? So you're kind of unique in that. You were in it, you got out, you got back in it, you got out. What was it like, you know, with your family adjusting and readjusting that schedule?

C

You know, Will, it was very interesting to me because, you know, before I got let go at Auburn, it was almost 30 straight years of just all I knew was going to work. And I only knew that world, right? And that world is very cyclical. You know, you can tell what you're going to be doing five years from now, in the middle of March, the middle of, you know, June. You have everything so scripted and so organized in your life that that's the way you live and you don't really know what's out there other than that. And one thing that I realized, you know, the first time I got let go or the time, only time I've gotten let go, I had to realize that. I realized how much I wasn't around because I was around every day, because I took two years off. I did tv, I did radio. I got into kind of the media world. I loved my life, but I realized that there is another life out there. That's what I was exposed to, and I loved it. You know, I have a team at the SEC network and you guys know, you know, Dari and Chris Doring and all those guys, they're my guys. Peter Burns, all them, they were my new team. But I Was able to have a team, and I was also able to have a life where I could do things outside of football. And I never knew what that was like. And I was like, wow, this isn't a bad life. Well, then Larry Fedora called me and talked me into going back, back to North Carolina as his D.C. and, you know, I'd said no two or three times. And, you know, he kept. He was persistent with me. So I ended up going back and then I got out again because my son. I wouldn't. My son was playing high school football time, and I didn't ever get a chance to see him play. So I was like, man, I got to drop the anchor right here. This ship, I don't have to be doing this. Like, I need to be around my boy. So. So I spent the last two years of his high school career just with him. Went back into tv and then same thing happened with Mac Brown. I went back in again. And to be honest with you, both times I went back in, there was no intent, like, I wasn't chomping at the bit to do it. You know, both guys called me and said, hey, will you come help me out? So I've got a really good perspective, probably better than most. And a lot of times when guys, like, get let go, I'll call them and I'll. And I'll say, hey, guys, you know what? I know where you're at. I know what you're thinking. I know where your mindset is. But there is a world out there that's really cool. And, you know, whether you go back in or you don't go back in, or you take a year off, you're going to find out there's a world out there and it's different than the one, you know, that's what I experienced myself.

A

I remember getting to know you 2019, kind of through 2021, in between your first and second stints at UNC. And you know, we talked about that a lot, was like, your life's really good. Like, you have a good flow during the fall and, you know, you and your wife can go and travel and do these things that you're still involved in the game and you are truly all in on those Saturdays. You do, like, some Friday night calls as well. And like, you had a really sweet setup. You didn't need to get back into it. But I saw that look in your eye when you talk about this stuff. And before you went back to work for. For Mac UNC, I knew that you had kept up with with defenses, not just at SEC Network and you know, when you're sitting down and watching film, but like when you and your wife would go on some of these trips and before you go to the beach, you'd go on the treadmill in the morning, you'd pull out the iPad. You're like looking at pressures and stuff like that, and you just had this itch to want to get back in. When you got back in 22, what was the biggest takeaway that you had schematically about schemes and how they had changed in the 2000 and 20s, either on offense or on defense?

C

Well, I'll start with 2022, right? That's when I went back in. There was a lot that had changed, Connor, in terms of offensive mindsets. And one of the things that drove it, and I see it happening now that I really look at it and study it, is analytics. And I think you really have to start at analytics because that's changed the game. And it's changed the game not only for offenses, but it's changed it for defenses as well. And I'll make this succinct as I can. Analytics have changed the game because offensively now everybody's deal is let's get more plays. Let's look at the risk reward board of going forward on fourth downs. So you have all of these analytics that play. And. And when I became the defensive coordinator again in the, in the, you know, 20, 22 and 23, one of the first things I asked every week at the beginning on Sunday was, are they driven by analytics? Because that's going to be whether or not they're going to go for it on fourth down. That is driven by risk reward. That's driven by a lot of things. But, you know, analytics was really just a huge part of the way offenses were. Well, you know, that affects defenses ultimately because the day and age of defense is saying, hey man, let's just play solid defense, man. Let's make them drive the field. That doesn't really work like it used to anymore. Offenses are running too many plays. Let's not even go into all of the things that are true. Meaning this quarterback started 8 years old and they have these trainers and they're in these seven on sevens. So you have these elite offenses right now that run RPOs, tempos, quarterback, run game, all these things. And these guys grow up in that world. You've got a field that allows you to take, you know, advantage of the spacing, you know, with your athletes in space. So there's a lot of advantage on offenses. And now all of a sudden the number of plays are starting to build up and escalate as well. So defensively where you, you know, back in the day when I we had the number one defense in the country in Auburn in 2004 and that was my line of thinking, look, we're really solid. Let's not give any, any explosive plays. Let's play really sound defense. Let's get three or four stops. Nowadays it shifted to we need TFLs, we need sacks, we need turnovers. We've got to get them off schedule right now because they are driven by analytics. They're going to go forward on fourth down. They might have six of those a game. Well, they you convert on, on fourth down, you can exponentially see what that does to the defense and their number of plays. And let's not there's a whole bit it matters for defense because defense doesn't even have the depth that it used to have. Because of what? Because of nil. There's a lot of far reaching tentacles on this. But the bottom line is it's changed a lot because analytics, I'll start there. Has changed the offense. And if you go back and look at take Indiana, everybody talks about Fernando Mendoza, right? And rightly so. And you know, all the, all the things they were doing offensively, you look at Indiana, go, go, go look right. I don't know exactly where it is. I guarantee it's top 10 TFLs, sacks, turnovers gained 100%. Their defense is built on that. And that's how simulated pressures became a thing. Because what that allowed defenses to do was take some risk but play coverages behind it that were safer. So it gives you the illusion that you're bringing five or six guys, but you're really not. You're playing the safe quarters or three deep behind it. So now I'm going to really chance going in there and trying to get a negative play, but I don't have to play man to man coverage. And your guy's better. My guy. And the quarterback throws it up and 60 yards later it's a touchdown. Long winded answer. But that's kind of how everything has evolved in the way I saw it. The way I still see it.

A

It's a great answer.

B

So coach, you said it yourself, you know, you're not chomping at the bit to get another coaching job. So this is just purely theoretical. You know, if you were given a job at let's say an SEC or a big ten spot, you know, things are so different now with the portal and nil, how would you prioritize spending that nil budget and building the roster kind of irrespective of who's on the team? Like how would you attack roster building today?

C

Well, I think there's critical positions right now that are non negotiables. As you know. I would make sure that our quarterback evaluation and all of our resources, starting with the quarterback number one. That's what drives everything. I mean look at any football team right now. If you don't have a quarterback, you don't have a championship chance. You just don't. Now you can sit there and say we got great, great players on defense, we got some great white house, we got some great skill guys, we got great defense. But in the end, if you don't have a championship caliber quarterback because you don't have the depth anywhere around him, you might have really good players. One level deep depth is critical now because you don't have any. Because there's. Nobody's going to sit there and wait so that they can play like back in the day, three years later. No, they're to going to go take the money and run so you don't have the debt. But I'm spending my money on the quarterback. I'm spending my money on one to two offensive linemen that are very critical. Obviously your left tackle, that's a huge part of that. I want a great skill guy. I want a guy on the perimeter that I can, he is my go to guy and I want that guy to be a big dude. I want to be able to throw the ball up to him. I want him to be that guy that you got to say double. But then I'm going to spend my next amount of money on a guy that's on the other side so that you can't necessarily take one guy out of the game. And then we don't have, you know, any explosive threats on the perimeter. And then defensively, no brainer, I'm spending money on a pass rusher inside, let me start that. Pass rusher outside, pass rusher inside in one great corner. I'm building that on that. I want my corner to match up on your great whiteout. I want to have a mismatch where you gotta find my pass rusher. So the way the defenses are built now, they're, they're built on edge, rush speed, they're built on speed everywhere. Linebackers that can match up, linebackers that can go into space, all of those things. But my money's going to be Built. My money is going to be built on a pass rusher on the edge, a formidable inside player. If you don't have a thick great middle of your defense, you don't have a defense. And then I'm getting one perimeter guy at corner that is a lockdown true high draft pick, dude, I'm evaluating that. And if I have the resource, I'm starting to build my team like that and that's not negating or minimizing all the other players around them. But if you don't have a lockdown corner, you don't have a pass rusher with these offenses, you got issues. You don't have a quarterback with these pass rushers on defense, you got issues. You don't have a pass protector right now that can pass protect against these rushers, you got issues. So all of those things are kind of, to me, extremely that that's where you start building everything. If you look at the NFL, where's their money going? Going to quarterbacks, going to left tackles, going to whiteouts. They don't pay money for running backs. They get beat up, right? So that's where they spend their money. Where does defensive guys spend their money? Pass rushers, lockdown corners. So that's the idea. I would sit down with my GM and say these are priorities, these are non negotiables. We got to get the best we can get, use our resources and then, you know, we plug and play around them.

A

Speaking of hypotheticals, let's just throw out a hypothetical scenario here. Like it's after the 2019 season and I don't know, there's a school like Mississippi State that like wants to interview head coach or something like that. And they say like Gene, you know, let's, let's have you come on board and just show you around the facility and interview you. What's that process like to go through that? Like to have those conversations? Because I'm sure some of it, they want to know about roster building. They want to know what have you learned from both your time on the outside and on the inside. Like what's that process like to, to spend a day with a program and try and figure out like if you guys are going to be a good fit and if you're going to ultimately be the face of that program.

C

Yeah, that's, that's an interesting topic for people, Connor, because, you know, let's start from the beginning. When somebody's interested in you, you're not going on campus. So you're gonna, you're gonna do your interview with Them normally at a search firm place. So they'll set it up right now where there's, you know, nobody knows who's coming in, who's coming out. It's at a desk.

B

Plane tracker. Coach.

C

What's that?

A

None of that with, like, Lane Kiffin or anything?

B

No, plane tracker. They're not tracking the planes yet.

C

Yeah, yeah, I said normally, so. Key word normally. And so, you know, you sit down and you have these conversations. And usually in the room, there's the athletic director and then two or three of his people that he either has on a committee. And I've been through all these with. When it's been just the ad and one other guy, then I've been on it. When it's a whole committee, then I've been on a. It was an ad and a couple of his guys and the people from the search firm. But it's really, really interesting, the questions you get asked. And there's a couple of good friends of mine that are ads right now, and they call me and they say, hey, Gene, I gotta have a football coach. What would you ask him? And I literally tell them, especially the young ones that have just become ads. This just happened recently that I had a conversation with them. I said. And I told him, I said, I'm not trying to be disparaging at all. I said, but I've been in enough interviews, and I'm being honest to know that you guys don't even know the question, the right questions to ask. I'm being honest. You don't even know the right question.

B

I agree.

C

I mean, you look at some of these hires out there, they go, they look at a piece of paper and they say, let's look at his stats. Oh, he was really good. Black and white, right? That translates zero to whether or not you're going to be able to run a football program as a CEO. And to be fair, I've sat in some interviews and I'm like, what is this guy asking me? Like, anybody. My wife could say, okay, what's your recruiting plan? Okay, you know, what's your roster plan? What's your discipline plan? Those are all generic. Like, you need to dive down into the nuts and bolts of what matters when you hire a football coach, right? Your leadership ability. What is your process? Who do you surround yourself with? What is your org chart look like? Like, who goes to what? How are you building the strength of the people that are great at this, but bad at this? How are you intertwining and making the mix and match so that this guy over here isn't trying to be great at something he's not good at because you're wasting time and he'll probably never be good at that. So I'll give you an example. When I was a head coach, I thought it was very important when we went out with recruiting that I matched up, you know, 200 years old. You have this area. You have this area. Oh, you're the O line guy, you recruit O lineman. Well, you're the whiteout guy. You recruit. That's not how we did it. We did that early in the process so that we could find out who we wanted to recruit. Then we matched them with the people that best fit their personality and then we recruited as a village. Connor, you may not be set to recruit the wide out from apopka even though you're the whiteout coach. Right. You're not the best fit for him and his family. Y' all don't jive, you don't mesh. I'm gonna put another dude on there as the lead guy. Now you're gonna come in behind him and then we're gonna do it as an offense. Make sense? And the head coach always gonna be. That's how we had recruiting success, so. But Connor, you know what, you're really suited to recruit that center from Arkansas. And you know, you're the wideout coach, but he's a center. But man, you and the family mash y' all got. There's things out there so that. So again, I'm not trying to make you be great at something that you're probably not great at. And so that happens with coaching as well. Right? You're going to sit there and beat your head against the wall as a head coach because the coach you hired is really not a good coach, but he's a great recruiter. Build on his strength as a recruiter and get him help as a coach. Make him be great at what he's great at and then help him the things he's not. That's what leadership is. You know, I say that to ads and people all the time, are like, wow, I never really thought about that. Yeah, but isn't that just common sense? Be great at what you're great at and then give you help in areas with others that you're not great at. That maximizes what you can do as far as adding to the organization. It's common sense to me. So long story, long wind. But I sat in several interviews with head coaches. I mean, as head coaching interviews, several. And I'm Literally sitting there going, this guy has no idea what to ask me. None. I mean, it was embarrassing. Just being honest.

A

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A

I wish you could name names on that one because I could go in a couple different directions and I have a few people in mind.

C

I'm not gonna go there.

A

We'll save that for off air.

C

Exactly, Coach.

B

I like that you sized up my guy. Connor, as a guy who can't can't recruit wide receivers, we want him doing the gritty out there in a podcast. I think that's a good call.

C

Yeah.

B

But no, that being said, like, you know, I told you off air, I went to Hoover High school and that 2010 Auburn team was like showtime for us at the lunch table.

C

Right.

B

We were watching you guys every weekend. And so my, my question for you is just the day to day I'm gonna do rapid fire if that's okay with a couple of guys on that team. And once you just tell me what they were like on a day to day basis. Okay, so number one, obviously Cam Newton, what was he like?

C

Hard worker, fun to be around. Grinder. Did everything we asked him to do in the one year that I had him. I love the guy.

B

All right.

C

Nick Fairleigh, one of the most dominant defensive linemen I've ever been around. Didn't even realize how good his potential was. Got better and better as time went on and he started to realize who he was, he started to realize the importance of work ethic. Didn't know that when we got him, but by the time he left there, he did know that. And he's one of the players that probably grew the most out of anybody that I had in a two year period.

B

And that's one of those interior, thick boys you were talking about. And finally, one of my favorite guys on that team, Trooper Taylor.

C

Love my man. True. I love him. He is truly. He's one of the. I want to, I want to make sure. Everybody understands. This is truly one of the best hearted human beings I've ever been around. He's at Texas A and M right now doing a great, great job coaching the running backs. Mike Elko loves him, rightly so. This dude cares about kids, he cares about family. He cares about everything that you would want a football coach in your program to be and do for those guys. He loves those guys. He loves them up. He's taught, he's. He's hard on him now. He doesn't play around with them. He's not their buddy, he is their mentor. And he is just. He is truly one of my truly great friends. And I, I love the guy and he is. He's one heck of a football coach and one of the best recruiters. No, the best recruiter I've ever been around.

B

Love that.

A

That 2010 team we did, and it just meant more podcast about that national championship against Oregon. I text you right after and it was, it was really fun to see how happy you were in those moments. Like, you kind of forget over time, like just what it looks like to watch someone live the best moment of their professional life and knowing that everything changes for you when you're able to. To be the last team standing. And, you know, I've always wondered, what does a coach do after winning a title? Because everybody talks about, like, oh, players go out and like, you know, there's shots of like, Indiana players at like 11, the club in Miami and stuff like that. And I always picture the coaching staff just sitting around in the hotel just like having drinks together. Wives are there and they're just shooting the breeze. And it's like this euphoric thing in this moment in time that you can't quite ever recapture. What was that night like for you, Connor?

C

I love that question. And I wish people would ask coaches that more because it's incredible to, to try to even explain the feeling would probably cheapen it. But I'll tell you what we did. So the first national championship I was ever part of was at Texas in 2005. So when I was a defensive coordinator, all of my family flew out there. All of my high school. You know, there's a lot of my high school buddies that flew out there, all the guys that I grew up with, and I had a rule that I made that night, and we made it just as night went on. Right, because you're exactly right. You always have a party. The coaches are there, you invite your close family friends, and then the party dies down. You're exhausted, just Just for the record, like, dude, you are flat worn out. I mean, you've played 14, 15 games. The pressure just mounts and it's enormous as you go. And we were about ready to go home. It was about 3:30 in the morning. And I was like, whoa, whoa, why would we, why would we go home? This night should never end. We're not going to bed. So I declared in that moment, if you win a national championship, you're up all night. You are not sleeping. You're not going anywhere. You are going to have fun. You're going to be with your buddies. You're going to party. You are going to have fun. Fun. And you're going to get on that plane the next morning, sleep on your way home. So that was at the Rose bowl five years later. I held true to my word and only two guys hung with me after we won the national championship at Auburn. And we stayed up all night again. And I went straight from staying up all night right into my press conference the next morning. And to be honest with you, I was sitting there having a great time and I forgot there was a press conference. And Kirk Sampson texted me and said, hey, we got to go to the press conference. And I'm like, oh, that's right, we have a press conference. So anyway, it's an incredible feeling, but the number one rule is you don't ever let the night end. You write it right till the sun comes up. So I'm two for two on that.

A

Who are the two coaches with you?

C

It wasn't two coaches. It was Jay Jacobs. No, it was Jay Jacobs and a guy named Tim Jackson all night long. Those are my two AD buddies. And yeah, it was, it was incredible.

B

Talking about champions here, you know, you were obviously a part of that 2004 Auburn team and you know, a team that certainly would have had a chance to compete for a championship. Do you consider that a championship team? I know there's been some conjectures since then, but basically, how good was that team and how would they stack up today?

C

They were. It was an outstanding football team. It was an excellent football team. Number one, I think Al Borges came in as our offensive coordinator and he did unbelievable work with Jason Campbell, our quarterback who struggled the year before. He used Ronnie Brown and Cadillac. As good as I've seen anybody use two first round draft picks in the backfield. Complementary, took the beating off of each other, use them schematically the way he needed to. It was. It was a thing of beauty. And then defensively, we had the number one defense in the country. I don't even think we gave up a rushing touchdown to like game nine. And so we were just really solid on defense everywhere around there. And people ask me all the time what team was better that or 2010, and I genuinely don't know. You got two first round quarterbacks, you know, you've got two really, really good defenses. You know, the year we won it all in 2010, we weren't great in pass defense, but our number one job was to stop the run and we were number one in the league in rush defense, you know, and so it's, it's a shame we didn't get a chance to play for it. We went undefeated in this league. I thought Tommy did a great job leading our football team and we just, we never got the shot. So you know, people are going to say, you know, I think somebody named U.S. national champions or whatever. It was a national championship caliber team. And I believe, I think it was USC that won it that year in 2004. Maybe, I don't remember now. I think it's USC and Oklahoma played for it, but we feel like, I think Oklahoma got blown out. I could be wrong. Is that, is that what it was? We, that wouldn't happen. That wouldn't happen. We, we would have, it would have been, it would have been a brawl. USC was good and the reason I know that is because I played him the next year. So I know for the national championship it would have been a brawl, but it would have been a great football game. We 100% would have had a chance to be the national champion and that would have been cool. For me that, that means I went back to back 2004 and five, you know, but, but it was a great football team, great players and Tommy did a really good job leading that football team.

A

I remember talking to Ronnie and in Cadillac back in like 2018, and you're right, they talked about like what Al came in and did with the complimentary backs and it was just like at the time it was just such a difficult thing to kind of figure out when you had two talents like that. And it took like the exact right offensive mind to be able to tap into to those things. And, and they did that and it like, it was kind of, it was a little bit more of like back and forth like leading up to that 2004 season with those guys and like couldn't stay healthy at the same time. And then when they finally did and you had the right offensive mind in there, just everything just, just kind of took off. But you're right, like, that is kind of one of the forgotten games of, like, what with 2004 Auburn, USC, what would that have looked like? Because everybody can point to 2003 when those two teams played and say, like, oh, well, we saw this, this blowout. I think Auburn was a different team in 2004. And while the computers might have and people like public perception might have dinged 2004 Auburn for that 2003 game against USC, I, I think it would have been fascinating to see. Like, I, I really think it would have been truly down to the wire and definitely would have been more competitive than the Oklahoma game.

B

Yeah.

C

In 2003 was just. There's a lot of moving parts. We had changed coordinators. Bobby Petrino had left to be the head coach at Louisville, you know, and they were trying to figure things out offensively. And, you know, it was a struggle in 2003, but 2004 was a completely different team in terms of coaching, in terms of confidence, in terms of players growing and maturing. Jason Campbell being a great example. Example of that. But that was true with a lot of different positions we had on the team. But our 2004 team 100 was national championship caliber. But as we were talking about, we never got the shot.

A

Go in any direction you want with this. If I could give you one person in college football right now to go run a defense, they could be head coach, coordinator, who would you pick based on what you've seen them do on film and just go like, yeah, just. Just give me that guy and I'll figure everything else out.

C

You talking about a guy that's an assistant right now?

A

It could be an assistant, could be a head coach. There's definitely a headco. Two head coaches that come to mind. That would probably be a pretty popular answer for this as well. I'm curious if you go in that

C

direction and you ask that, Connor, from the perspective of them being a coordinator of some sort?

A

Yeah, let's say, let's say you're. Let's say you're putting together a football team and you just have to pick someone to be the head coach of the defense specifically. Like, that's their entire responsibility to just go win you a football game tomorrow. Like you're, you're. You're trying to figure out, like, defensive game planning, putting guys in the right spot. Like, who's the defensive mind that you would say.

C

It's no brainer.

A

Guy's just.

C

Yeah, no brainer. Brent Venables tomorrow.

A

Yep.

C

I mean, it's not Even I don't have to think about that. He is incredible. And that's a great example. What we were talking about earlier about a guy using his strength, what he is strong at and running the defense because you remember before that it was Ted Roof and I think was maybe another guy. Even before that Brent took it over and they weren't great on offense, but how in the world they get to the College Football Playoff and get the wins that they did with great defense and you know, very average and sometimes below average play offensively. That defensive performance was so dominant. I mean they were number one in the country in sacks at 45 sacks on the year. So he's a great example also of me talking about how analytics have changed people's mindsets that you got to get sacks and TFLs and all those things. Look at Oklahoma. So, you know, but Brent is by far, to me he's, he's ahead of the game with, with most everybody.

A

I think that was the correct answer. Will and I were kind of debating circling around that question the other day and that was the name that kind of came to mind with that. I know you got a million things going on here. Last one for you. And you've. I don't know that I've asked you this question recently, but are you officially retired from coaching?

C

Yes, I'm done. I love my life. I love, I love espn. People have asked me that before. People have reached out to me. I'm going to be 65 years old guys in four months, five months. I'm healthy, I can get around. I love to travel. My wife and I just love to travel. We just got back from Asia a little while ago doing that. I love to travel. I love my life. I did it for 30 plus years. The games changed. I love football like deep in my soul. But it's time for me to give that off to a younger, you know, the younger guys and you know, guys that have come come up in this world. I do not. I am, I think college football isn't the most incredible sport on the planet and I'll always think that. I don't like the things that are happening with it right now for all the reasons we don't need to go into. But you know what that is, you know, with the transfer portal in the nil, just the theology wise. I just, I can't agree with a lot of those things and they can't seem to get them in the, get them back in the bottle. I think eventually they will to try to get this right. Don't know exactly what that's going to take. That's a whole nother discussion. But this game has, this game has been amazing to me and my family. I've been blessed by this game. I love this game. I'm still involved with this game. I still love studying film. But as far as far as me being a college football coach, I'm. I'm done with that.

A

Can we get you in the booth, though? Can we get you in the booth for, for some of these games, man? Like just, just a handful because you have so much to give in that way. And I think that's the, that's the only part of your analysis that I feel like, man, we, we could get, we could get even more of that. So can we get just, just like three or four of those, like Friday night games and get you in studio on. On Saturday? Still doing SEC Network?

C

Well, I did, I did the Arkansas Mississippi State last year year and I was a little rusty. Connor at the beginning got me to. About the third quarter for me to, to, to do it. No, I love doing games in the booth and they know that if there's, you know, a time where they need me, you know, there was a kind of a situation where they were, you know, last minute scenario and I told them, I said, hey, I'll jump in the booth whenever you want me to jump in the booth. And I did that and I had a blast with it. I love it and I wouldn't mind doing, you know, several a year, but I really enjoyed it. But I was rusty. I felt a little bit better about the third quarter when I knocked some of the dust off. But yeah, to your point, I love being involved in it, everything about it.

A

Love it. Gene, this has been great. Can't wait to see in Tampa in a couple of weeks here next time you're in Orlando, High tide. Harry's got to make it happen.

C

Really, really appreciate you. That's happening, buddy. When I come to speak in Orlando, you and I, it's a date.

A

Let's go. Let's go. Can't wait for it.

B

Thanks, man.

C

Thank you all.

A

All right, well, let's close with some lad of the week. If I had to guess, I think we're pretty derby focused with lad of the week, aren't we?

B

A little bit, yeah. I'd say I want to go back to the World Cup. It's been a good time, but it's kind of like what's happening in sports right now. This is the time of the year where, you know, our moms would tell us to go outside grown ups.

A

So yeah. And for those who have experienced the derby as, as kids it's, it's hard to imagine it not being a staple of summer and for a very long time like as an adult I don't feel like it's been a staple of my summer. All the messing with the form, the format and whatnot. I was, I was dialed in on Monday night, man. So I'm going with Jordan Walker, the derby winner and I will admit definitely was not rooting for a Cardinal was 100 rooting for Schwarber. Would have been much better to see Schwarber win, especially like seeing how badly Schwarber wanted it to like in front of the home fans in Philly like I. It was but it was so fun to watch because seeing that crowd boo the non Philly guys like Wilson Contreras who's another former Cub, like getting booed like when he's, you know, he pops one up or something like, or like they, they chase year when he pops one up, it just, it was, it was really fun to watch. And it pains me to admit but the theater that we got for Jordan Walker hitting six straight bombs to beat Schwarber, essentially a walk off in the home Run Derby which is like nearly impossible to do it and they could only really do it like kind of with this format in that sort of way. But yeah, seeing his parents reactions were incredible. His swing is just so smooth, so effortless. Pretty wild for a guy that was very highly touted coming up. But Ben Hockman, who does great work covering all things like St. Louis area, he pointed this out like last year at the All Star break, Jordan Walker had three homers in 191 plate appearances.

B

Yeah.

A

With that swing like I was. How is that possible? Wasn't even a lock to be an opening day starter this year, but pretty incredible rise for another Stone Mountain Georgia legend. Yeah, Stone Mountain Georgia. A lot of references lately. 66250 only confirming my theory that there's just something different in the water in Georgia. Okay. Can't tell me there's not. I'm convinced of it. If the youth get it, bless them. Ryan Howard handed him a chain after it was like a Liberty Bell chain. And he dwarfed Ryan Howard. And I'm talking like Ryan Howard the former Phillies first baseman. Like Ryan Howard from the office. He dwarfed him. Okay. It's amazing that that guy never played football. And I was looking it up, I was like, surely this guy played football at some point. Like high School coaches try to get him to play every year. He's like, nope, I'm focused on baseball. Was originally going to take his 3.98 GPA to Duke and play baseball there. And then the Cardinals were like, hey, what if you come play for us and we'll draft you in the first round? I said, okay, I'll do that instead.

B

You've already made peace with being hated by most people. You're going to Duke. What if you just came to the Cardinals instead? It.

A

Dude, his dad went to MIT and his mom went to Harvard, and he's 66 with that frame. How is that fair?

B

I know that. That is insane. That is too many talent points on that guy.

A

Like, come on, man. At least. At least play football. And let us say maybe you were disappointing with your size just so there. Is there something bad about you? I guess maybe there is something bad about him because he struggled, you know, first part of, like, his MLB tenure. But he's clearly figured some things out now. But, yeah, guy looks like a future face of the franchise. And I'll say this. If he terrorizes the Cubs for the next decade, like you very well could, this is going to be the last nice thing that you're going to hear me say about him. Like, this is. This is the rise and then everything he does from this point moving forward, I just get to pick apart. That's the way this works. But, yeah, derby was great. It was awesome. Like, absolutely awesome. Was one of those things that, like, my heart's, like, pumping. Watching it at the end, I'm like. I mean, I watch Warbur to win, of course, but I don't have, like, a dog in this fight. Like, I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna sleep just fine if Schwarber's, you know, unable to win this thing. But it was great. Absolutely. Must see tv.

B

Yeah, no, I'm right there with you. And I'm gonna go actually the other way here, right? And actually go with Kyle Schwerber. I know that the way that it ended for him wasn't great. I know that, you know, it's. It's all about the result. But again, this is a glorified screen scrimmage right at the end of the day, and I think it matters. It's great. But I think at the end of the day, his career arc. I was just talking off air with you. Like, I remember one of the first, like, real conversations we had was I had Schwarber is like a keeper where he's like, a catcher for the Cubs in fantasy baseball. I was like, dude, tell me about this guy. I didn't know he went to, like, iu didn't know the stuff about him. He has, like, these crazy accolades where he was great in, like, Little League and stuff. And. And so the fact that he has been able to basically remake his career after being on the Cubs and being like, I. I feel like a decently disappointing player. Like, I feel like we had such high aspirations for him. And then him go over to. Wait, what?

A

When you're a World Series hero, you're good.

B

No, you're right.

A

Legacy is cemented.

B

But he's like.

A

And Rizzo brought this up on the broadcast. Rizzo said, I think of Schwarber now in a Phillies uniform more than a Cubs uniform, which is 100 fair. Like, what he's done in Philly is ridiculous. And the fact that the Cubs didn't give him $9 million that it would have taken for him to stay is one of the more painful things I can think of. But maybe you just needed a change of scenery, and there's a reason why, like, everywhere he goes, he's just part of winning teams. You know, I. I love that guy so much.

B

Yeah. And that's kind of. That's where I'm going with it. You're right. You know, he had. It's the fact that his career started so hot, and then it was kind of a story of what could have been. But then, you know, he gets to. And again, he bumped around a little bit, too. Like, that's the thing. Going back. And remember him, okay, I'm on the Nats, I'm on the Red Sox. And for. When you have a power hitter like that, it's razor thin margins. Right. A bad week or two could be, oh, this guy is, you know, need to get sent down. And we've seen that happen so many times. So when you're. When you're moving around, when you're changing your routine, such a big deal in baseball and to land with a place in Philly, that really resonates with him, that cheers maybe loudest of any sports city. Right. And to hit like all those almost consecutive all star teams at 21, 22, 25, 26, and to say, like, yeah, you know, they already had Bryce Harper, like, that's going to be kind of their guy. But to have this other guy that's kind of more fun and easier to root for, you know, because again, I. I like Harper more than most people, but he's kind of a tough guy. To root for. He's a guy that it's. It would almost be better for Harper if he was a degenerate not to go down that road. But he's so, like, hardo about everything, and he's like, straight edge, and he's like, oh, like you, like, here's how I do it. He seems like a raw milk guy, you know, Whereas, like, in every band, like, I could see Swerver, like, you know, having a couple. Couple beers after the game. And so I think that's. I think baseball is really making a comeback, you know, at kind of every level. And I think that having, you know, you have your Otanis, you have your Aaron judges that are like these folk heroes that feel like, you know, mythological titans, and you have a guy like Schwarber, it's like, this feels like one of my boys. If you were very, very, very good at baseball. And he plays in this way, that's so fun. And so, again, no, it didn't end well for him, but seeing the home fans kind of like, look at him and be like, that's our guy. After his career took him around and I guess more so around the Northeast, right? But. But back to his. His current home in Philly, and he is going to be that guy. And I think he's on pace to eventually probably make his way into Cooperstown if he can.

A

He's gonna be hall of Famer, hall of Famer, 500 home runs, like, all very much on the table. If he wins a World Series too, that'll be like, maybe this Phillies team will be the. The team that. That wins World Series. He's played a ton of playoff games already. But, yeah, it's. It's kind of crazy to think, too. So, like, you talk about, like, being a legend in Philly. They were shooting the Abbott elementary episode at the Phillies game. I think this was last year. And, like, he knew he was, like, gonna be doing stuff for it after the game. And, you know, it was like, kind of like ABC cameras are gonna be like, shooting a sitcom there. And it'd be, like, kind of cool if, like, Schwarber is a big part of the plot in this episode. And I'm sure, like, he knew going in all the cameras are going to be on him for these at bats and stuff like that. Whatever. The dude hits four home runs that night, just then casually shows up and shoots all of his scenes right afterwards after a four home run night. And he's just electric. He's awesome. Like, he's provided me with some of my favorite baseball moments of my life, like, going to the College World Series when IU was there and he was, like, part of that team. Was so cool. Like, seeing IU win a game of the College World Series, nuts. Seeing, like, what he did to the Cardinals, hitting the ball that went up to the Budweiser sign up and, like, he's. He's the man. He's absolutely awesome. I don't care what uniform he's in. Favorite MLB player, like, hands down, Wanted to see him win. Definitely wanted to see him win. And you could. It was cool seeing how much it meant him, too. Like, he was upset when Jordan Walker was kind of going on that run there because maybe this is his last chance to win a Home Run Derby. I don't know, like, if he's like, kind of like, ah, this might be my last time doing it because he lost in 2018 and wanted to come back and wanted to be able to win. Wanted to do it in front of the home fans and wasn't able to do it. So that. That part was a bummer. But you're right. Like, it is cool to see just a celebration of a guy that's just. He's awesome. Nobody ever says a bad thing about Schwarber. Except my uncle, who my uncle used to text my brother and I when Schwerber would have, like, an O for four game with three Ks, they'd be like, schwarber sucks. And that's all he would say. So now whenever, like, schwaber hits, like, 40 or 50 homers in a season or something like that, or he's like, in the MVP race, my brother and I will just text each other and we'll be like, schwarber sucks. It's just like a running joke in our family. Like, God, he's so good. Love Schwarbs.

B

It's. It's so funny to you to be kind of that archetype of player and then have already done it on the biggest stage to where it's just like, yeah, again, sometimes. Sometimes the average slip, sometimes we strike out. But we know he's a bonafide dude in the postseason. And that makes. Makes it feel so much more real because it's not like, oh, we're just watching empty calories here. It's like, this matters. I think it's super cool. Just hits nukes, man.

A

Just hits nukes. All right, email us the OG kickoff gmail.com Any thoughts on today's episode upsets that you have that you're like, hey, this is gonna play out. Conor, Will, you should have had these. I'm on record. Let us know. We are going to be doing something a little bit different. SEC Media days. We're kind of finalizing what some of those details. Details are. But as of right now, we're going to be doing live shows every day, so be on the lookout for that. We'll kind of update everybody like, where they can follow along, where they can watch live. We're still going to be doing our. Everything that we're going to be doing is still going to be part of our podcast feed. So we're not going to ask you to, like, go to different places or anything, but just be subscribed to the next round on YouTube where we are going to be going live every day. That is the initial plan. And we're going to have have, you know, guests while we're in Tampa and we're going to be doing a lot of fun things. So please, please, please follow along for that. Follow us on Twittera at ghostard. Thanks, guys. Talk soon.