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A

Hey, what's going on? This is the OG kickoff. A double down and next round media production. I am Conor o'. Gara. Well, when I threw out the possibility of Marcus Freeman following the 2023 Jim Harbaugh path, little did I realize that someone in Ann Arbor would just beat him to the punch and the joke would kind of be by everybody and hand up. Did not see that coming. Dusty May apparently did.

C

Look, you know we forgot that Michigan was the ultimate stepping stool job, right? Anyone gets the Michigan job and their goal is to win a national championship immediately bolt to the pro leagues. So we spent too much time talking about South Bend. We should have been talking about Ann Arbor and how nobody really wants to live there.

A

Apparently not. Goodness gracious man. Yeah, that that's stunning to to see that. And I know there are a lot of people wondering like oh, is this just time college sports are going to be? It's like ah, maybe it was just Specific to a situation. Until we see a bunch of head coaches actually go the route of championship to NFL or, you know, win an NCAA tournament and go straight to the NBA. Probably shouldn't assume that it's everybody, but noteworthy nonetheless. Who knows? Maybe Marcus Freeman's gonna be like, well, Dusty May kind of already did it. So I think I'll just stick around here and enjoy my time in South Bend, a place that everybody loves, right?

C

Yeah. And I mean, just to be the voice of reason here, right? Michigan is so freaking wealthy. Right? I mean, if it was a money thing, he would be at Michigan. Considering what they've done for Bryce Underwood and some others, you know, having just brought a national championship there, I have no doubts that they're fundraising efforts. I think that bringing in MAU Jerry, the famous Raptors gm, to be kind of their pobo over there. And then also working with Cooper Flag can't be understated. Where going to a great situation in the NBA, there's nothing like it, right? Where you could just kind of say, hey, give that guy the ball. We got a great fan base. We got no state tax. Let's let it ride. Like, this is the type of situation that you'd be praying for for the next 10 years if it were to come about.

A

I think Dusty May is a really good coach. Fellow Indiana grad.

C

All right.

A

I'm not gonna hate on a fellow Indiana grad.

C

You guys are just sleep yourselves, man. We're gonna find out that the whole government's just run by y'.

B

All.

A

Let me just say this. What if. And this is where my cynical brain went, and I'll tie it back to college football, I promise. What if Dusty May thought to himself, am I potentially Mike Norvell? Am I potentially the guy that has built an unbelievable roster at Michigan via the portal, which a lot of people are complaining about. Whatever. It's the new day and age. And am I just perhaps a cycle or two away from all of a sudden being compared to Mike Norvell? Like, is there that possibility that was in his brain? Because as much as I think that coaches are just so paranoid and they always think that they're about to get fired if they lose a couple of games, there is something a little bit more real in college basketball, more so than college football, with the way that you have to recruit rosters now, how much variance there could be. I think he's a really good coach, and I think he would probably be fine. But I wonder if he thought for a moment, is there a possibility that I'm just competing against myself. And if you rely on the portal a lot, maybe there's a little bit more variance. I don't know.

C

I think that's part of it having to adjust. I think part of it is, you know, it's the invoke thing to say state of the sport. You know, what are you going to do? Who would want to coach? This isn't the way it was when I was coming up. And I think some of the legislation that we saw come through actually kind of right after that about the, you know, five years of eligibility and all that starts to clean that up. And I think we've truly seen the bottom of everyone just looking around going the state of the sport. You can excuse any behavior now by just saying state of the sport. What are you going to do?

A

Or possibly he just saw oh Cooper flags over there.

C

That's, that's, you know, is that you don't have to lose that guy. Well, never know about the Dallas.

A

True, true. He could be on the chopping block within two or three years knowing how they operate. Anyway, we have a great pod lined up. We have Tony, Tony Catalina, first time guest who covers a M for 247 Sports. Great interview. Dig into all things Aggies with him and we have that of the week. But first Will, we're doing something new and we need to come up with a clear name for this because over the course of the last five, six days there's been some discourse about this potential name. I wanted to dig into something that is thought about but not addressed by college football fans. Simply put, which program is having the worst time of anyone in the 2000s. This is essentially the meme come to life of bro. I'm straight up not having a good time. That's what this is in college football. I, I think group of five teams are excluded from this group because while I'd love to discuss UMass and they're 7:57 record in the 20s 20s, I think there's a certain level of apathy that group of five fans have accepted just because you're not in the top tier of power conference. So like I, I don't want to say I, I do think that you need to be a certain level of committed to your program to, to be in that we are not having a good time camp. So I want to get that out there. We will not be discussing group of five teams today but and shout out

C

UCF who specifically started the decade in a great spot in the group of five and then now ended up in a version of hell by getting out of the group of five. Kind of goes to show that. Yeah.

A

And look, I actually didn't have UCF as one of those teams to discuss for this. Maybe in part because they started off the decade so well. We can add it to the end if you want to. We can. Didn't think that you were gonna hit me with a team I did not have mentioned here, but I came up with a name originally of duck of the decade for this team. Because when I think of duck in a football sense, it's an awful, underwhelming throw, and you drop back to pass. You have expectations, and it's a duck. Upon further consideration, per both Will and Lauren, the two people that I discussed these types of things with more than anybody, I realized that there are potentially some better names on the table. And it probably the mascot of the team that I picked to win a national championship is maybe that was more

C

because Phil Knight's gonna be at your door if we're using duck pejoratively. Right, right.

B

You're.

A

You're probably right. So, Will, we can either name this the dud of the decade, or as Lauren brought up the deuce of the decade. I will let you decide.

C

My pick was dud. I feel like there's some expectations with a dud, you know what I'm saying? It's like a firework, you know, Are you a big fireworks guy, Connor?

A

I'm not. Lauren wants me to be interesting.

C

Well, this won't surprise you. Growing up, my mom was a big fireworks gal, maybe the largest in the state of Louisiana. We grew up some bayou land, and we were always blowing stuff up. That was how we spent time. It's a little bit of a fantasy factory type situation. A little Rob Deerdick we had going on. We would, like, build stuff and blow it up. And so there was nothing scarier, more disappointing than when you buy the nice firework and it goes to the bottom and it's just. And it's like, what do we do now? You know, do we throw it in the lake? Do we go. Stay away from it. Do we go somewhere else? So a dud just ruins your time.

A

Lauren handed me one of those mail in coupon things for, I don't know, I was like, phantom fireworks. One of those brands or something like that. She goes, save this in case for 4th of July for us. I'm thinking to myself, we have never done this before. Why is this the direction you want us to be going in? Like, is. Is this something that you want to be part of our fourth of July plans? I we, we've done other things like that before, but I'm talking the buy 8 get 7 free whatever the coupon is type thing that you see and you're just thinking to yourself, those people that spend thousands of dollars on fireworks every year, that that is not my personality. But Lauren wants to get into the hundreds of dollars camp and I, I was just kind of looking at her going, is this something we talked about? I just didn't. I just got his face done.

C

I had no idea that's what my dad sparked the relationship. Connor, you know, I fully endorse that. I think blowing some stuff up could be fun.

A

Sure, why not? Let's blow some stuff up today. Will here's what prompted the discussion on the Conor o' Gara Show. Again, not my original pick for the name, but that is what it's called. Everyone should go listen on Friday mornings to what we're doing with the next round. We go live on YouTube 9am Eastern, 8am Central. I did an Auburn vibe check with Ryan Brown and I came to the conclusion. I think Auburn is straight up having the worst time of anyone in college football in the 2000s. And here's the case. The program has obviously had five consecutive losing seasons in the midst of its worst stretch since the Harry Truman administration. You've heard me say that before. You fired three coaches and you've paid all of them eight figure buyouts. The only winning season in the 2000s resulted in paying what was then the largest buyout in history of a college football head coach, Gus Melan. The job search was botched from the jump with the Kevin Steele mess. You land on Brian Harson. You staged a failed coup a year later because you don't like him. Against your two biggest rivals in the 2000s, Alabama and Georgia. You're O and 12 against them with some excruciating losses. And those teams have accounted for every single SEC championship in the 2000s as well as half of the national championships. But it's not just them or even the zero bowl game victories. It is a 4:26 mark against ranked foes, which is fewer ranked wins in the 2000s than the likes of Arkansas. Vandy. Even Kentucky has nine ranked wins in the 2000s. The only time that people were talking about you nationally was for an embarrassing loss when something like Gravedigger happened. Or the Jackson Arnold goal line play against Georgia last year. Or even allowing 40 straight points to Mississippi State in 2020 or all three times that Diego Pavia beat you. Whatever the case, it's always about the embarrassing losses. And then there was also the embarrassment of Hugh Freezes Golf Scores. But that, you know, whatever, that was blown out of proportion. Auburn's best moment of the 2020s was watching Cadillac Williams lead Auburn to a win against a 5, 7 Texas A&M team. And it was a great moment when you step back and realize, man, that's saying a lot. You get what I'm saying here? You also watch your biggest recruit of the 2000 and tens, Bonix, leave after three years at your program where he had every opportunity and then he goes off to Oregon and becomes the best possible version of himself. He's the Heisman Trophy finalist, he's a first round pick, he's a, he's a household name in the NFL. And now this is maybe a little bit of projection here, but you have the possibility of perhaps your biggest recruit of the 2000s, Cam Coleman, becoming the best version of himself at Texas for a team that thinks it's going to compete for national championship this year. And mind you, that's after Cam Coleman's last play at Auburn was the fumble in the Iron Bowl. So that's for a program that has treated its home fans to zero top half offenses in the 2000s. It's a program that's got two wins in a battle of top 25 teams, one of which was the COVID opener against Kentucky, a team that would go on to finish 5 and 6. Hardly a real ranked win. Auburn does not have the worst overall record on this list at 33 and 40 overall and 17 and 33 in the SEC. There are teams with worse conference records that we're going to get into. And like just in terms of who's been less relevant, like I, I get it, there are other teams that are part of this. But I would argue that Auburn right now, as we sit here in 2026 leads the discussion for dud of the decade. And I'm starting here because I want to go through all these candidates and see if you will have a, like an argument against it and see if any one of these other teams stacks up to Auburn's horrific 2000s resume. So that's, that's how we're going to do this today.

C

Yeah, I mean, and you saw what I just lost my mind and started laughing there when what really puts it in perspective is, yeah, your two largest rivals have just dominated the SEC championship. I mean it's like I haven't even Thought about that in terms of like, oh, who has it the worst? You know, like, is it okay, a little bit of like, Florida with Miami doing well? Tennessee? Alabama? No, no, no. The fact that they have been able to combine Georgia and Alabama and those teams are just the. Have been the class of the sec, and it's like, no matter what, they're so inevitable, not just in terms of the sec, but in terms of that game. Speak about Grave Digger. You speak about, I mean, like, the, the big plays are, you know, the

A

Jackson, the Bryce Young final. You know, what was it, like, 79 seconds that come back too, as well? I didn't even mention that. Yeah.

C

Yep. The Jackson auto fumble last year. I do have to, just as in our interview later, declare that I don't think that was the brightest moment in auburn of the 2000s. I think it was the Bonix play against LSU. That play made me feel sadness, but outside of that, I, I think that play was kind of stands alone in terms of happiness they've had. We made four guys miss, you know, did all that. So. Yeah, and that was the transition that we've talked about between quote, unquote, vintage Auburn and modern Auburn. You know, Gus Malzahn, obviously, I think, did great things there. I think that he was underrated, and I think that they kind of overestimated their abilities when they said, okay, we need to show you the door kind of unceremoniously after kind of a weird year, you know, at the end there. So, yeah, I, I think that that's what it is. It is expectation. It is. How are your rivals doing? You know, it's. How have you been measured in? Auburn, you know, like it or not, has had a dominant national champion season, a Heisman Trophy winner, another national championship appearance. That felt like, I mean, you know, we're a play away there from that being the most glorious season in college football history. As a fan, where you have the. The two plays that, you know, I believe, both of which we've done on. On overtime, on adjustment more. So that being said, like, I, I just. I feel like Auburn fans had this thing that we'll always be back. We'll always find a way. We'll always, you know, maybe we're not Alabama, but our record is close enough against Alabama to where nobody else can even say that. And, yeah, looking at. At kind of the horizon here, and I like, I like the goal is higher. Like, I feel like they're in a great. I feel like this. Feel like this is the best they've been in A minute. But if we're talking about this decade.

B

Oof.

A

Yeah. And that's the problem. Who feels worse when head hits pillow Fall Saturdays? That's, that's really what we're trying to, to figure out today. So this is the way that we'll, we'll kind of frame this because I've already made the case for, for Auburn to lead this discussion. It's a discussion that's, that's fluid. You know, we're only six years through the 2000s. We still have four more years of the 2000s, and we will be able to crown a dubious champion of this, the dud of the decade. I want to treat this like those videos where people do the stop when you see a player better than this guy. Barstool does a lot of that as well. But I think it's good for kind of framing the discussion of like, hey, this is the standard. And everybody else. This, this is what you're trying to, or maybe not trying to live up to in terms of awfulness, in terms of feeling like this is just terrible. And as you mentioned last year, you know it. You had a rough year last year. I'm having a rough year in 2025 or 2026.

C

What year is this?

A

2026. 2025 wasn't your year. 2026 has not been mine so far. I could admit that even though I watched my own modern winter national championship, I would still probably make that case. And you get to that feeling of December 31st, you're like, oh, just get me to a new year. You get it. Whoever wins this title will have that feeling of, oh, just get me to a new decade. I'm so glad that this one is over.

C

Yeah, been there before. And again, hopefully brighter, brighter futures ahead.

A

So I will go through these teams and then I'll ask the same question at the end of them, of Will, who's had a worse time in the 2020s, Auburn or this team that I mentioned?

C

Okay, easy.

A

Let's start with the one that Ryan brought up that was top of mind is me. The top of mind for me as well. If I could speak today. Nebraska, obviously. And by the way, Ryan brought that up. As someone who actually likes Matt Rule, there's an obvious case for this. It's the winless record against AP top 25 teams. It's not just a 2020s thing, but it's currently at 30 in a row dating back to 2016. You fired your savior, Scott Frost, because he could not win a one score game to Save his life. That's the worst kind of loss for a fan base to suffer. And your savior then insisted that it was the wrong job for him, even though he self destructed in every possible way. You've also watched your biggest recruit of the decade up and leave for Oregon TBD on the Dylan Raiola experiments in Eugene and how that goes. But unlike Auburn, who watched Bo nix up and leave for Oregon, you haven't had a winning conference season in the 2000s. You know, you only fired one coach, but two ADs willingly left, including Trev Alberts, aka an All American offensive lineman who was part of those vintage 90s Tom Osborne teams who left for Texas A M. You've tried to distract people with things like a massive stadium renovation and those new uniforms. It's still a program that's 29 and 41 in the 2000s. But, but, but, but you are at least coming off consecutive winning seasons that included a bowl victory for the first time in, you know, in a decade. The sellout streak is alive. Because when you can just have rich people scoop up unsold tickets and write them off as charity donations, that's just what you do. You heard that from many people, not just me. And you haven't had to watch your rivals become juggernauts in the way that Auburn has. So will. Who has had a worse time in the 2020s, Nebraska or Auburn?

C

So this one's, this was the first name that came up to me whenever you kind of like explain this to me. And I know, I understand the rules of this, but I do want to have one little caveat here. Auburn, during this period of time, right, like, they were pretty good at basketball. They had some things to be happy about. I know this is about football, but the thing about Nebraska is, yeah, they have a recent basketball success. If you're in Nebraska, man, they have just proven over and over again that they care so freaking much about just football. I mean, like the way I was actually about to go there, I was about to go there. They have turned into a volleyball school. That's how sad their, their football team is. I, I was literally about to go there where they're selling out their football stadium for volleyball. So they were just a mass of people that so badly wants to believe in something, right? And that's not speaking to the quality of their volleyball team. I actually follow their volleyball team and I'm really impressed by what they've done. But that being said, you know, when you have the so many legacies, Raiola talking About Frost talking about like, Trev Alberts or whatever. It's like, hey, you guys brought in. You already brought in the, you know, the, the legacy guys that were going to write the ship. The way that Miami has tried to do it, it just didn't work for you, so you got to go in a completely different direction. And so, yeah, I, I think that's what's so fascinating that they have shown. Hey, this is our nil approach. This is our new practice facility. This is our business center. We're going to give to the athletes like you truly are within striking distance. There is no one in the Big Ten outside of maybe like an Ohio State that you can look at and be like, this team can really outspend us if we really get our Ducks in a row, if we really are real about ourselves and our expectations. The way they've sold out that stadium. So, yeah, I think they're right there neck and neck with Auburn. And that's why I do a little bit of a tiebreaker there where I go. At least Auburn's at basketball. I. Again, I'm sure that people care about volleyball, but if you're just talking around in the office, that's not going to save you.

A

Nebraska's going off its best basketball season ever, though. Like, that's.

C

No, no, I know it's. But it's been one year. That's the thing. Auburn had, like, you know, the whole Bruce Burton you to be happy about.

A

Yeah, I, again, I, I do want to just stick to football and I don't think that that should like, make or break the discussion because I think this is about what fall looks like. And if you've experienced fall in those places, you know that there's not like turning the page is. Does not just automatically happen. Now maybe you can make the case for Auburn. That's. That's been a different discussion as of late and had that to look forward to.

C

You know, here's why I'm going to take Nebraska. Nebraska is used to being the big dog, historically. Auburn. I love the town of Auburn. I love the plains. I love their identity as kind of the plucky underdog. I think they're so easy to root for. I think that like the, the family, all. All of their branding goes with. You're going to come here, we're going to welcome you, we're gonna accept you. Have a good time. Nebraska's branding is like, we are the black shirts. We are going to beat the teeth out of you. This is original Joyless murder ball. And so the fact that they're both at about the same level of success speaks in Nebraska is more sad because they're used to just kicking people's teeth in and they just can't do that now. Not even close.

A

Here's where I'll concede this argument, where I'll agree with you. If I'm predicting who will be the number one leader in this discussion by the time the decade concludes, my pick would be Nebraska. It would not be Auburn. I think for my projection of Alex Golish versus my projection of Matt Rule, that's where that gets factored in. But if I'm just looking at how this has started so far and knowing the pain, the different levels of pain, because there was the ramp up that, that Nebraska had in the 2010s, like I saw it firsthand there with all of a sudden realizing like, you're a borderline top 25 team with Bo Pelini, and then you had this precipitous fall under the botch Mike Riley hiring that led into Frost and all that other stuff. But you are now at a place where you feel like, oh, yes, we missed our window, but we at least have this sense of opt that Matt Rule is. Is not going to let us bottom out in the way that others potentially would. So that that's the only thing that I would really push back on for there. But they're, in my opinion, like everybody else in the discussion, they're chasing those two. Like I. And maybe you'll disagree with that, but I think those are the two clear leaders you have to bring up when

C

you start this and look at their contracts, too. I mean, I know we've talked about the, the contract there for Rule, but it's the mystery box, right? It's Gholish. Might not be Matt Rule. Their contracts are so different. They're not locked in long term. So either with Golish, he can beat top 25 teams, which in the SEC you'll know pretty quickly. Right. Like we usually know about guys. But then also the odds of someone getting to that place at a place like Auburn where you can just feast on bottom feeders is not really possible. So, yeah, I, I'm gonna. I'm gonna lock in my pick. Nebraska is farther in hell because they. They're stuck with my rule. Okay.

A

Yeah. All right, let's end this discussion then. That's pod. That'll do it. No. All right, let's. Let's look into some other teams here. And again, there is a difference in. In tier. I think we're getting into now the tier two already. Michigan State. When I talked at Lauren about this, I know what I said. Michigan State was one of her two picks for this and we'll get to the other one in a second. The more I thought about it, the more I felt like Michigan State needed to be part of this discussion and not just because they're on their third AD in two years. I mean, that's. That is wild. Even Tom Ezzo is like, seriously, this is what we're doing, guys.

C

Dude, his quote the other day was grim.

A

Pretty over it. It doesn't sound like a guy that's going to be coaching for several more years. If I had to guess, we can't.

C

That was almost like adult call me to save you from this mess type of quote. Because we've seen some coaches come back and do that. He's like, I will be in Boca Raton, dog.

A

Yeah, Boca Raton. People always say Boca Raton always bothers me. Anyway, Mel Tucker saga. It happened. It happened like you had the mega deal, the 10 year mega deal, when everybody's doing it in 2021 and he repaid you by having inappropriate conduct with a domestic violence advocate and getting fired with cause. So then you make the smart hire of getting Jonathan Smith, a guy that was very well respected, arguably the best hire of the post 2017 cycle when he went to Oregon State.

C

And.

A

And then he essentially follows the Chad Morris Arkansas timeline of two years and out. Some might not want to include Michigan State here because there's optimism about Pat Fitzgerald, even though by the time he coaches this fall, it'll be roughly like, I think we're at like 1700 days since Pat Fitzgerald has won a game against a power conference team on American soil. Not that I'm keeping track, but I would add to this. They watch Michigan win a national title, you know, and that's a big part of this, especially for the program that was called little bro, shout out mikeheart. That happened in a year in which your team was in disarray and you lost 49 to nothing and then you lost the fight in the tunnel afterwards. To make matters worse, that was ugly. 31 and 37 overall. Michigan State is in the 2000s. They're 18 and 34 and pick 10 play in that stretch. Five losing seasons. And that's for a 2000-20s decade that started with Mark D' Antonio being locked in as your head coach, only for him to retire weeks after getting a 4.3 million dollar longevity bonus. People forget about that. The only case I can make it against it is this 2021. Kenneth Walker. It was fun. It was fun. He was good. That team was nasty because he was nasty. They won 11 games. They finished ninth in the AP poll. They had the comeback win against a playoff bound Michigan team that year. Their high is arguably higher than anybody on this list. So Will, who has had the worst time in the 2000 and twenties? Michigan State, Auburn or Nebraska?

C

I think we're at a tear break here, I think. And again, I know I, I get the goal of the exercise, but I'm not even exactly positive they're a football school. I think that their goals are to be 11, two. Right. Like I. And they did that once and I don't know if there's going to be anybody else on this list that was able to get to the highs that they have. But again, it's all about expectations. And I think that it sucks to watch Michigan win for sure. But I don't think that the period that, I think the period that we're in right now is very disappointing for them, but I don't think that they're in hell in the way that the folks in Lincoln or Auburn are.

A

Yeah, they did have great, great moments in the 2010s. Can't forget about that. And that perhaps set the stage for whoever Mark d' Antonio's successor was, but he had some, some rough final years. And I do think that that's context that probably changed what we thought Michigan State's ceiling was. Going to the Rose bowl, going to the College Football Playoff. Like these are things that they, they did and, you know, felt like were real and sustainable and just have not been able to sustain any of it in the NIL era at all. But a team that has probably been like, yeah, this sucks. Let's watch anything else besides football?

C

Yeah, and I'd say too, like, you know, the. I, I had to double check the Dantonio thing because that was just after the turn of the decade. So I think that does count. And their misery, like, he stepped down in February of 2020 and it's really underrated how messy their situation has been because that situation was messy. The Motocra situation has been messy. But again, it just doesn't feel quite as hopeless. They have, oh man, what's his name? The donor that owns the basketball team. Is it Dan Gilbert? They have a couple of very, very. They have Ishbia and maybe also they have a couple of very, very rich guys that are there. So it doesn't feel like that level of hopelessness they're still in the Big Ten. Just feels like they don't really care. Like if they really said hey, we're done losing. Feels like they could pull a couple lovers if they haven't quite engaged yet. Which like Nebraska is not done.

A

Yeah. And it is kind of a reminder of it's you fire head coaches sooner than what probably the casual fan might realize in hopes that that you just change around the vibes. And Michigan State very much needed to change around the vibes. It did not work with the Aiden Chiles Jonathan Smith thing and it's just been really rough and kind of surprisingly rough for them in the 2020s after a really solid decade or at least solid first half of the decade for Michigan State in the swing tents. Okay, Oregon State. Yeah. Speaking of Jonathan Smith, you have to include a program that had its conference crumble and then watched literally everyone else in that conference besides Washington State find a new happy home. That part's tough because you're being told how bad you are. This is Michael Scott thinking he's getting invited to Ryan's cool party in New York to launch Dunder Mifflin Infinity, only to realize midway through the drive that he's only got a chat room invite. Of course, Michael Gary Scott does not take L, so eventually he had to make his way to New York with Dwight for some of that New York sushi. Oregon state doesn't take Ls okay, it just started the PAC12 up again and had its own fun. Of course, it's been pretty costly though it has been. You watch Donaldson Smith leave his alma mater in good standing because of those dynamics and you can't convince me otherwise. You did the internal promotion of Trent Beret and then that very quickly flamed out. Oregon, meanwhile, is living its best life in the Big Ten. What was once kind of a fun back and forth, even like later days of the Pac 12, it was kind of like not a given who was going to win that rivalry. Like that's turned into a clear superiority factor that Oregon has over Oregon, even though you could argue they've had that for a good chunk of the 21st century. And this could be Oregon's breakthrough year. You could have to watch that TBD again. That's projecting, but I don't think it can be in the lead for this reason. From 2021 to 2023, aka the last three years of the previous version of the Pac 12, Oregon stated three winning seasons with two wins against Oregon during that time, it was their best three year stretch in 15 years, they were ranked in the final playoff poll twice, a 34 and 36 mark. Over a six year stretch in some places is dreadful. Like if that happened at Ohio State, we'd be like, oh my God, what in the world has happened in that program? But Corvallis is not Columbus, okay? It's just not. I will say, if we're doing this at the end of the decade, keep an eye on Oregon State. They could be a winner. They could be set up well. They could be set up well in the new version of the PAC 12. We'll see how it works out with Jamarcus Shepard. But it's part of this discussion and in my opinion, it's just not leading because that three year stretch. So Will, who has had the worst time in the 2020s? Auburn, Nebraska or Oregon State?

C

So I'm gonna, I have a lot of points to make here about losing your conference and all that, but I think that those points would be better served for Washington State, which I'll get

A

to in a second here. Right.

C

The tiebreaker is these winning seasons. And so ultimately, okay, again, I'll get to it. But when you bump up against that, can we have fun on a Saturday? Can we watch some wins? You're ultimately kind of a G5 team vibes are not. I mean, you see the ceiling, but if you can win and go to the games and, you know, kiss your girl in the touchdowns, how bad could it really be, you know?

B

Yeah.

A

Lauren's boss grew up in Corvallis rooting for Oregon State. And if I told him that Oregon State would be leading this discussion, he'd say, no, no, no, no, no, you've got that all wrong relative to expectations. Very important with something like that. Okay, you teased it. Washington State, of course, if we got. You got to include both of them. You have to. The two teams that were left out, musical chairs didn't work out for him. Everyone else in the PAC 12 scooped up. Even Cal had a suitor from the ACC. And yet these poor folks in Pullman, Washington, are like anybody, man. No takers, we got nothing. Let's also remember what happened nine days into the 2000s decade. Your savior, Mike Leach, left you for Mississippi State. The guy that brought you Joy throughout the 2000 and tens bolted for a lower tier power conference job. And then in 2021, his successor, Nick Rolovich, he gets fired because he refuses to get the COVID vaccine. His successor, Jake Dicker, our friend comes along, actually does well in three plus seasons there, but leaves for another Lower tier power conference job at Wake Forest, which felt very much like a direct byproduct of the PAC12 exit. I realized he was there for a year in which they were independent, but you get what I'm. And then, cool, you got your guy. Jimmy Rogers gets you to a bowl game, only for him to leave for Iowa State after just a year on the job. To recap, Washington State has had four coaches in the 2000s, three left for the likes of Mississippi State, Wake Forest and Iowa State, and one didn't want to get a vaccine. So I guess you're on your fifth coach of the 2000 and twenties. That's what we're talking about here. That's nuts. All right. We're only in 2026. I don't know if you've been keeping track at home. We're only on 2026. And now Kirby Moore is probably gonna stay there for a long time. Maybe. I don't know. I like Kirby Moore, but first time head coach. We'll see how it works out. You've also watched Washington play international championship in 2023. Did get two wins in the Apple cup, which thankfully, that's continuing at least for another few years. The only argument against Washington State to be leading this discussion is they've actually been all right. They've actually been okay since the 1 in 3 covet season between 5 and 8 wins. It's not like truly bottoming out.35 and 33 overall. So record above.500 for a program without a lot of historical success. Okay. I kind of think they're in a good spot with a new structure of the PAC12, because the head start that they're going to have among, you know, all those Mountain west transplants, they've got a better start with resources than one would probably think. So Will, who has had a worst time in the 2020s? Auburn, Nebraska or Washington State?

C

This one, I have decided, is up in the tier with the other two. I think this is a stretching distance and let me tell you why. Give me those destinations again that their

A

coaches left for Mississippi State, Wake Forest, Iowa State and unvaccinated.

C

It's the Daily Mail. And so that being said, right, that you take out the unvaccinated is the most horrifying trend in the world you could possibly see. Okay, Lose a guy. Sec. Who am I? Okay, who's a guy to the acca? It's a little bit embarrassing, but bicoastal. They're kind of at our level a bit. Oh, oh, this guy, this guy's. Going to. I was not the Big Ten one. No, that. The other one.

A

Oh, well, it's like Troy. It's like Troy. That, that's what it reminds me of. And you're basically a group of five team at that point. Like that's, that's what you're, you're accepting is with all those coaches, they are telling you that's how far behind you are.

C

Yes. And now I'm gonna speak on the sadness of losing the PAC 12, right. Having, you know, Bill Walton pass away right after the last official Pac12 event, right. Like seeing the, the video, the mascots all hugging for the last time, right. Like, like the guy in the wazoo, like with the wazoo flag that's been on game day forever and him getting interviewed about. You've devoted so much of your life to this for free, for at cost to you. And what is it giving you back? Sorrow. Right. And so like I said, I think that with Oregon State it's a little bit different because they've been scrappy, they've been able to kind of, you know, push back and forth, punch back. And I think that the additions of some of these other teams, the Pac12 pack, do soften this blow. I think that when they were truly a two teams without a country, it was even sadder. But again, to see your rival appear in a national title get closer, I feel that Oregon has right to, to see, okay, this is just how far away we are. It's across the state and there's only room for one. You know, it's like the type, the door and the Titanic. It's like only one of us can get out of this ship. But it's so clearly going to be Washington and, and you know, what they've been able to do in the Big Ten and everything. Like it's one thing to lose Kayla and deboer to a once in a generation Alabama job. It's another thing to again lose your guy to. Golly, man, I mean that's just so rough and so, yeah, I mean if you're truly locked in, that's the thing. You know, I don't know what the people of Pullman, Washington have going on in a given week. I don't know how much they care. But that's the really, the only edge I can give Nebraska is that I know there's really nothing else to do in the middle of Nebraska. No, you know, just, just like no disrespect to them, but they would tell you that, right? At least they could say I don't care about this anymore. Like, at least they could say, I'm just gonna, this isn't gonna bring me joy. I'm done. Whereas the people of Lincoln are trapped. But yeah, I mean, there's just nothing good coming out of Bowman lately. It was just, it's a rough scene.

A

That's so tough to hear that from. Power conferences say, no, we don't want you. From your own head coaches, your highest paid employees at the university who have said, we don't want you. Yeah, I'm sure, like, if you give them truth serum, they would say, look, I, I, I, I enjoyed my time there, but I also see the writing on the wall and I see the way that college football is trending. And you can't be in a place like this where all of a sudden you're looking up going, am I in a power conference job? No, I'm not. And that's. You were relegated. You were relegated. That, that is the closest thing that we have seen in college football to relegation. And that having that play out in that dynamic and just being the ultimate, like the, the ultimate face of, of the, the side effects, the, the ripple effect of realignment, like, that's, that sucks. That's a brutal pill to have to swallow. So Washington State in, Oregon State, I think are firm, like, they can't go away in this discussion in the 2000 and twenties. We can't lose sight of that and what it means to go from being in that place and feeling like, oh, in a given year, like we can compete at a top 25 level if we hit it right, and then all of a sudden to being like, oh boy, maybe eventually you, like, we can work our way up to perhaps getting the group of five bit and even that might be a little bit ambitious, but you've, you've moved down a status in college football and I'll say to

C

the tragic death of Mike Leach as well. Like, you can't even look fondly on the Gardner Minchu years and say, look who it used to be. It brings us out and associated with that. So, yeah, it's like everything that they could put their hat on I think is just crumbling.

A

All right, so speaking of that, well, Mississippi State is our next team up here. And not to make light of this, but having your head coach die during a nine win season is unheard of. I mean, it just, just doesn't happen. I mean, it just does not happen. You finally made this big splash at the start of the 2020s by getting Mike Leach. You go to his place in Key west, give him this $5 million contract and you got three years out of it. That's it. Not because he flamed out, because he died. Is we always want someone to blame a ref player, coach resources. In this day and age you can't really be mad at a death that that very drastically changes the trajectory of your program. And I, I haven't done a good enough job of talking about this but will, I think Leech would have thrived in the Portal era. I really do. You know, like we didn't get to see that, we didn't get to see that really take shape with the way that rosters were constructed back in 2022. This is someone who recruited to a very specific system that could know very quickly if that guy was good to play in it or not playing it. And he often would bring in, you know, he'd often would have an experienced quarterback run it or at least that's when we would see it run. Well, he could pluck a veteran quarterback like a Gardner Minshew who you know was going to be maybe third string quarterback at Alabama and decides I'm just going to leave the nation in passing in Washington State he could have plug and play wideouts that he'd be able to get and go to all these different group of five places. And I bet he'd be really good with that, you know that he wouldn't waste any words with those 24 hour recruitments. I think Leech would have really done well with Portal evaluating and it's a chapter that we just didn't get to see. And if you're a Mississippi State fan, that frustrates you knowing that man, you felt like you actually were building towards something really good. Even if you were due for kind of a setback next year. Like you could have been set up really well in the 2000s and that's just not been the case because of how it's played out since then. With 5, 7, 2 and 10, 5 and 8:1 and done for Zach Garnett, Jeff Levy's now facing pressure in year three. The thing that I think is worth repeating here once again in the post Leech era at Mississippi State, they do not have a home SEC win. Three seasons, zero home SEC wins. You beat Arizona State last year and did so in incredibly dramatic fashion for what was easily the best moment of the post Leech era. That's all well and good. You also watch your teams quandary golden opportunity against Texas. And then there's the Ole Miss part Of this, on one hand, you probably had a good chuckle watching all the lane drama play out. You're like, see, you're gonna go back to being totally irrelevant. Enjoy this. And then on the other hand, they followed that by, you know, having their best season of the post integration era. And we're 20 seconds away from playing for national championship. Your lone win against them in the 2020s was the last game that Leech coached in 2022. The argument against Mississippi State. Been to a bowl game four times, won two of them. Did have that ugly melee after the Armed forces Bowl in 2020. People forget that it's a 32 and 42 mark overall in the 2000s. But eight wins against ranked foes, that included starting the decade by breaking the SEC single game passing record against the defending champs. Will, I think you remember that one. Well, it also included the aforementioned 40 consecutive points after falling behind 283 against number 16, Auburn. Beginning of the end of the Brian Harson era. So Will, who is having a worse time in the 2000 and twenties? Auburn, Nebraska or Mississippi State?

C

Golly, man, that's a compelling case as well. Okay, so really quick, I, I do think the least part of this is so interesting because again, from the, from the Washington State side, you could say, hey, it really did take a perfect pitch to make him leave Pullman, right? Like to your point about going to Key west and all the stories that have been told there. And from Mississippi State's part, they could say, wow, we were in a position to make this perfect pitch. So both schools can kind of walk away from that in a positive way, right? But to your point, the fallout that has become there, where you have such a clear identity, you have finally gotten your roster retooled. I think the transfer portal part of this is so fascinating, Connor. It's such a, such a great point because how many guys that were, you know, four and even five stars that were just languishing on a bench somewhere would have gone, hey, you know, worst case scenario, I'm gonna have my little version of Blue Mountain State out here in stark Vegas and go play this 5 wide system where I'm gonna just catch, you know, a ton of passes and fall down, or I'm gonna have the ability to run screen passes, or I'm gonna have really good tape. I'll be able to tell my kids and grandkids one day. I used to be able to do X, Y and Z. Look at my highlights and they're gonna go, why didn't you get drafted and you five, seven. And so like, all of that, all of that sounds awesome, right? Like in the transfer portal era that there, there would be this enclave that you could just go play for this pirate in Mississippi. It would just be about ball and partying and having fun and a guy who famously, you know, backed up his players and, and was like, hey, if you got a fight in, you will harness that. And, and I think that, yeah, you know, trying to kind of pay respect to him with, with the hire that was made after that didn't exactly work out. Marnett, who is obviously back in town. I think you just got to treat it sensitively, you know, with kind of kid gloves. When you're at a place like Mississippi State and you do feel like, you know, you had it figured out for the next however many years and at least you had a Runway to pick who that was going to be straight from the man, you know, himself. So, yeah, I, I, I'm with you. I think they're kind of at the top of the second tier. You know, I wouldn't quite put them in the top three because Mississippi State has watched some bad football. You know what I'm saying? Like, they've watched some bad football over their, their tenure as friends or as fans. I think the old miss part of it's new, but, but I think that ultimately, you know, just, just being direct, directionless and getting cooked by, you know, your Alabamas and, and your, you know, other teams isn't a new thing for them. But I will say that Texas game was really something special.

A

I also remembered thinking I was there at the 2022 Reliaques bowl, the first game without Leech and they beat Illinois. Comeback win. Really emotional. If you saw the scene afterwards, it was, it was pretty unique seeing the reaction from those players, how much it meant to them. You could say bowl games don't mean anymore, don't mean anything anymore in the playoff era. That meant something in Mississippi State. And you know, I remembered writing, this is the beginning of the new era. This is how they're gonna have to win games. It's going to be more low scoring and it's going to be they're going to get into some rock fights. Like if they're going to be relevant and if they're going to keep their head above water post Leech, this is kind of what it's going to have to look like. And it just has not played out in the way that they could have anticipated. And it's, it's such a difficult thing to, to project because nobody knows how to respond to that, but it has truly defined the 2000s for Mississippi State. And it's not to say that's an excuse, and it's not to say it's an excuse for some of the, the poor decisions that Jeff Levy made down the stretch to be able to blow some of those games last year. Like, they have to get better in some of those spots. You can't just be like, well, our coach died three years ago, so this is why we couldn't close out the fourth quarter against Texas. I'm not saying that, but it has defined it in a way that I didn't really think it would. And it looms. It definitely looms. Okay. Wisconsin knew they were going to be brought up here from 2005 to 2019, which is really when I kind of came to know and respect Wisconsin. I went to camp Randall probably four times during that stretch. I think they had a 15 year stretch in which they finished unranked three times. That's it. They were able to overcome Brett Bielma leaving for Arkansas. They entered the2020s as one of the most set it and forget it programs in the sport. And if you recall, that was with prize quarterback recruit Graham Mertz set to be the new face of the program. Yeah, about that. Graham Mertz's most noteworthy accomplishment. I shouldn't say accomplishment. His most noteworthy moment at Wisconsin was him dropping and shattering the Mayo bowl trophy. Remember that? Go look that one up, kids. If that doesn't perfectly describe Wisconsin in the 2000s, I don't know what does. That's it right there. They had Paul Chris fall out of favor. Camp Randall emptied out. They got a discount on his buyout. And even though fans were upset that Jim Leonard didn't get the full time job, they very quickly were like, wait a minute, we got Luke Fickle. That's, that's awesome. That's great. And then it's not been great. It's been really, really rough. Wisconsin has yet to have a ranked finish in the 2000s. A stunning thing to say as we are six years through this decade. On top of that, they've got a coach that's on arguably the hottest seat in America with an AD who just got bounced. And if they have to pay him upwards of $20 million to go away, that would suck too. They have no footing or identity in this new look. Big ten, which is thriving, but not at all because of Wisconsin, which is so weird because if you had told anyone in the 2010s, hey, the Big Ten is going to have this renaissance in the 2020s with three different teams winning a national title. Plenty of people would have assumed that Wisconsin was either one of those teams or at least was chomping at the bit and maybe getting to a Big Ten championship and pushing those teams. And instead, at least six losses in all three of those seasons in which they've watched a different team win a national championship from the Big Ten. On top of that, just three wins against ranked foes. That's even fewer than Auburn have had quarterbacks just dropping like flies. And last season, nine points per conference game. I mean, you want to talk about not having a good time, that is not having a good time. The argument against Wisconsin is this. Three bowl wins in the 2000 and twenties, two of which had trophies that were not shattered. No massive scandal. You've only had to fire one coach, maybe two very soon. And while you've had to watch fellow Big Ten teams win a national title, at least it's not like some Big Ten west rival.

C

You've never had one, so what could you expect?

A

No, Minnesota. Minnesota is very much a rival.

C

No, no, I'm saying they've never had a title. Wisconsin has like never won a title. So they can't be like, oh, no more teams have won titles without us.

A

Oh, yeah, true, true. I get what you're saying. Yeah, so you at least not have had that element come up in the way that like an Auburn or Michigan State has 36 and 34 record overall in the 2000s, 23 and 28 in Big Ten pool. I actually thought those numbers would be worse. But relative to expectations, knowing the 15 year stretch that Wisconsin entered the 2000s on, that's pretty horrendous. So will, who is having a worse time in the 2000 and twenties? Auburn, Nebraska or Wisconsin?

C

Wisconsin situation is not that bad. And I'm here to tell you people of Camp Randall, you can hire me right now and I'll fix it. What you need is an assertiveness coach. You need the version of what Plankton was to spongebob when he taught him how to be assertive. And I'm here to tell you I'm going to lend you my services. I'm going to go in that, that discussion meeting in the Culver is the TAD every year. And I'm going to say, listen here, bleep face, I'm done. All right? We know what the buyout is. We know what the situation is. Those boys should never let Jim Leonard get out of the Building. What I'm going to do is bring in Jim Leonard, make him the DC and say, I'm going to put in a smarter coach than you with the thought that if you can't turn it around, we're going to look right there at that guy. And I think that they just need to be more assertive. I think they just have been too chill. It's like I said that they're just, they've fallen for the, the tall guy with a terrible credit score and their mom's going, what's the plan here? And that could be me. I could be their mom. I could, I could sit down in the, in the, in the meeting room and say, what's your five year plan? Hey, you know, what are we doing? We got a degree we're working on, we got some career opportunities. What is your plan here at Camp Randall? Because you're wasting my, my program's time. I think this is pretty easily fixable and they need to hurry before Jim Leonard gets a better opportunity.

A

Jason Neck. But yeah, Jason Neck is going to be the guy.

C

Either or, either or.

A

The, the funny thing is, is like we make the joke about the Culver's meeting that they have to be able to award their satisfactory coaches with automatic one year extensions. We make those jokes even though the two things that they did in the 2000s that were most noteworthy were pretty aggressive moves. Firing Paul, Chris. At that time, a lot of people were like, how could he fire this guy? Like, what do you mean? And it's kind of a big reason why I say optics matter, because the optics were so bad. And those that were just looking at his record and the stability, they were not realizing that the fan base had totally lost trust in him. He wasn't going to be able to recruit and sell boosters in the NIL era. And I think that there is a feeling, or at least there was a feeling when Luke Fickle was hired of like, oh my God, the Wisconsin just get the best hire of the cycle. They end up with Luke Fickle. That's pretty amazing, all things considered. And it just has not worked out. So they've tried aggressive, they tried not aggressive. And it's been tough and it's been really, really tough. And so, yeah, that's why everybody's pointing at Jason that going like, that's probably the solution if Luke Fickle is again, at least just, you know, sitting there at 5 and 7 or 6 and 6, like, that's probably the direction they'll go. But I never thought in a million years that they would be part of this discussion. They are 100 part of it.

C

Our guy Tony Soprano can also fix it. There's just, there's a couple of obvious options to be if they're just not in one of them.

A

RIP. All right, Florida. Florida. Florida. Florida. Let's start with the obvious here. Two coach firings with eight figure buyouts at the end of year four. Still trying to get a coach to year five for the first time in the post urban era. You know this still zero playoff appearances. The best opportunity for a playoff berth was blown because of a throne shoe. You know, this embarrassment has defined Florida in the 2000s. The throne shoe, the Dan Mullen tirades, the time Samford put up half a hundred in swamp, the time USF came into the Swamp and won. Florida has had four losing seasons in the 2000s. And if you don't think that Florida deserves to be a part of this discussion, you need to hear me say the stat. I'm going to start it over because there are people going, oh, what are you talking about? They've had this moment. They've had this moment. No, no. Florida in the 2000s has had four losing seasons, which is a lot when you remember that in the 40 seasons prior, Florida had two losing seasons, okay? They had more national championships in that stretch than losing seasons. That's why they're part of this. Two other key elements, Georgia. Not sure if you heard it's in the lead for the team of the decade discussion after ending the 1980 jokes, which most part came from Florida fans who were making them and repeating by doing the thing that Florida did not do when it won those three national titles going defeated. Georgia did that. Florida hasn't done that. So you've seen that change and that's tough. You could argue that the team having the worst time is the rival of the team having the best time. If we just want to simplify this whole thing, okay. But the dud of the decade is of the 2000 and twenties, which was Tennessee Decade of Dysfunction. Shout out Mark Nagy for that book. They finally won in the Swamp for the first time in two decades. Tennessee has now won three of four against Florida, which has only happened one other time since those two teams started playing each other in 1990, which just so happened to be the first year of Spur year. The prized Florida recruit of the 2000s, DJ Lagway, bounced after year two. We never really got to see him fully live up to that five star hype that he came in with don't know that he's about to become a Heisman finalist at Baylor like Bonix at Oregon. But who knows? The argument against Florida and the only reason I didn't lead with them in this discussion, four bull berths and an SEC championship trip in the 2000s. You've at least had some of those good moments sprinkled in there. Billy Napier's 2022 debut, the win against Utah, where everybody freaked out over three plays that Anthony Richardson made and told themselves that he was the next Cam Newton. I was there last year for the Texas game. That was a great moment. Beating Georgia during the COVID season, that was kind of a breakthrough moment for Florida. Got them to the SEC championship that year. First time, you know, beating like that version of Kirby. That was a big deal. The LSU and Ole Miss wins in consecutive weeks in 2024, those were big deals. Florida is in the midst of a historically bad stretch, and yet it has six wins against ranked foes, which not good. But four wins against top 10 teams, which is kind of a reminder of like, yeah, they could just kind of come up out of nowhere and have one of those moments and convince you that they're more relevant than they are. So will. Who is having a worse time in the 2000s, Auburn, Nebraska or Florida?

C

It's actually so funny that this is the point where I get to address this because I've joked about this. There's not been a team that I've been more consist consistently correct against the menial average than Florida. I think since I got on this podcast, pretty much every single thing I've said about Florida has ended up being right.

A

Since you got on the podcast, Kyle, trust was better than you gave him credit for. But we don't need to get into that. That's fine. Well, as a college, I don't care about the NFL. I don't care about. I don't care about the NFL. He did not throw that shoe they put.

C

I know, I understand. But like, I could see the deeper meaning of Mullen's not stacking these recruits. Yeah, Florida made the SEC championship game in this weird, you know, Covid year, but they never led. Okay. You could see how this bowl game has gone and how that means guys are like, you know, off the boat and like what. What that's turned into and how several other teams have followed suit there, including Florida State. I think that it's funny that I'm viewing this right now because despite me running uphill against water Current for 6 years About Florida and being Empirically, absolutely correct. This is the first time I am legitimately feeling good about Florida. I like John Summerall. I've been saying this consistently and so it's such a bummer to be that now I'm sitting here. If we had this conversation a year ago, I would have been like, I still think this guy Billy's a fraud. Because I said that after the LSU with the Ole Miss wins and nobody wanted to hear it. But that being said, I do feel like they've hired the type of coach that can actually bring the hard nose mentality that they thought they had or that they lacked with Dan Mullen at least. I don't know. Again, Billy is one of these, these salesman tech guys. But that being said, it's so wild what they were unable to get out of their talent. It's so wild when you've seen these guys that go to the NFL or you see what's on their roster right now. And so that being said, I said this from the beginning of the decade. I think that the expectations at the University of Florida are disjointed with what reality has been. I see that we have gotten the stadium renovation. I see that we added all these guys on staff at, at, you know, with Billy. But Florida is a university that truly is an everything school. And when you are that, you don't really have the ability to pool your massive amount of resources into one place like in Nebraska and go out spend in Alabama, go out spend in Ohio State and I. So I think that they have now been playing catch up after the disaster with their nil collectives and all that different stuff. So like, I think they just didn't understand where they were for six years, but I think now they do. That's the thing is that like they've had a horrible time, but they've fully done it to themselves. I think that if you looked objectively at the coaches they've had, they've hired the guys on the rosters, you know, Graham Mertz, whatever it would be, and gone. How could you think this team could win nine or 10 games if you really empirically looked at them? And so it would be hard for me to say that in four years they'd be back in the spot because I think they've finally looked in the mirror after striking out for Liam Kiffin and gone. This is the type of coach that can save us.

A

That was really nice and really mean at the same time.

C

Hey, that's what we're here for. It's gentle parenting or I guess honesty

A

they are spending money now. And if you don't believe that, look at how expensive the stadium renovation is.

C

I mean, and that matters. And guess what? They just started that hiring a couple extra guys in, in renovating stuff. You know, the practice facilities newer. We've started to see things happen in a row now that I could start to get behind.

A

It's going to be part of this discussion if they are still left out of the playoff. Because that's the standard that Florida is. Is held to. That's the standard that they're held to nationally because I think fair or not, when you've won multiple national championships in the 21st century, people come back to that. They come back to that whether it's the roster dictates it or not. And I'm not saying that that's ultimately what is fair in a given year for Florida, it's certainly not going to be fair for this year. But they have had a frustrating time of it in the 2000 and 20s because even when they were at their best, the face of the program was losing his mind. And that's just such a unique thing to have to wrestle with as a fan that you're like, wait a minute, can we actually enjoy this? Is this actually a good thing that's happening to us? Because we see the flaws, we see that this defense isn't particularly good and we know that this offense is going to lose a lot of its pieces next year. Next year could be kind of rough if we don't hit it right and if Emory Jones doesn't turn out to be the guy that we think he is. But yeah, I mean, Florida has had a. A really, really tough sell nationally that they are still not. That they are still relevant year in, year out. And I think that's the place that they would like to be able to get back to with John Summerall DVD on that dvd.

C

So you're saying they have playoff expectations year one under summer.

A

No, that's what I'm saying they don't have. I'm saying.

C

I'm just making sure because that's my point. I think they actually need to have a scheduled building year, you know, not a year where they lose hope like 20, 24 and then get it back. Like, I think playoff expectations are fair in year two under John Zal, because I. But again, if you've never made the playoff, how can I expect you to be in the playoff? That's what I've always said is that they need to do something different. And now they're doing that So I, I feel, I feel great about them, to be honest.

A

Number one in the country in percentage of returning defensive production. We'll see if it matters this year. Stanford. Fun fact will or you're. You're gonna get your mind blown with some of the Stanford stuff. I promise you Stanford has not reached five wins once in the 2000s.

C

I'm already. That's nuts. Okay.

A

Other fun fact, Stanford is now on its fourth coach of the 2000s to Vita Pritchard. Last fun fact, Stanford now plays in a conference named after the other ocean, not the one that it's 20 miles away from. Speaking of the number 20 Stanford in the 2000 and 20s. 20 total wins, 20 and 46 overall. 14 and 35 in conference playing whatever conference they've been in. Pac 12, ACC, of course. Even though I think a lot of people would have said at the start of the decade they had a top 10 coach in the sport in David Shaw. Zero appearances in the AP top 25 worst record overall among power conference teams in the 2000s. Auburn. That's. That's even worse than you. On top of that, Stanford had the number 56 scoring offense during the COVID season. But since then, here are the FBS ranks in scoring offense. 1131-091121-06122. But hey, they just. New coaching staff just came on board. Maybe they're going to have an influx of talent or something like that, right? Fresh start, bring in a bunch of new guys. Let's see how this works. Oh boy. Six transfers. You can count them almost all in one hand. If you're Antonio Alfonseca, you can count them all on one hand. One third of which are from Harvard and Yale. Yeah, two of your six transfers, Harvard and yo, you can't even sell yourself on Andrew Luck being some game changing general manager when basically you're just still going to be Stanford. Right? That seems like really just a marketing thing at this point. Steve Sarcasian could never imagine the academic restrictions for transfers at a place like Stanford. Don't even tell him that. The only argument against Stanford to be leading this discussion who's actually having a bad time. It's a state of apathy. It's group of five level type stuff that we're talking about. They had a top 10 Notre Dame team in town, rivalry game and they couldn't even get 30, 000 paid fans with probably a lot of Notre Dame fans that, that are willing to travel and make that trip or you know, big massive national Fan base that, you know, plenty of butcher in California that could have made that trip. They had a home game earlier that month. Classic clash against ACC rival Pit Will. They had 16, 540 paid attendance at a Stanford home game in a non Covid year. That is so unbelievably bad. This is not Auburn or Nebraska, you know, fan level. Okay? Not even close. They, they couldn't even begin to sniff that. And it's because of how bad the team is. Can you have that bad of a time when your own athletic department is unwilling to spend and more willing to follow like the 20th century Vanderbilt model of getting a conference media check and then using it to fund everything else? Can you really be that mad? So, Will, who is having a worse time in the 2000 and twenties? Auburn, Nebraska or Stanford? Maybe I should ask Ashton Daniels about that question. He would.

C

There you go. Yeah, this, this is just upsetting me. This is just making me mad. This is apathy. I mean, I, I, I just. They have this list of alums that, I mean, could, could literally rival Harvard. It could rival Oxford. They could, I mean, Phil Knight also has a degree from Stanford. Nobody talks about that. I think that if they actually cared. This is actually, I've shouted this out before. I think Stanford could be a sleeping giant in the, in the NIL era, because if it could just get like five alums in a room, they could outspend 95 of college football.

A

Woods, you know, like just John Elway.

C

And that's the other part of it. That's the other part of it, Connor. They have enough NFL alums, John Elway, Jeffrey McCaffrey talking about Richard Sherman, talking about dudes that if you just called them and said, hey, we're gonna kind of do like a player first thing over here. We already got Andrew Luckett here. You know, we're just gonna, we're gonna get some guys in here that, that are gonna make it feel fun to be at Stanford. And they just do not care. And so, yeah, so they're number fourth in America in endowment at $41 billion, dude. So they just don't care. So, like, why would I, as a fan care if they don't care? They could just slice off a little bit. A billion, a little measly billion of that endowment, you know, and, and we could make a case about, and I will later, about Cal and how they're in the opposite situation. But if you just don't care, then there's apathy and that's the opposite. Or I always joke about the Opposite of love is not hate. It's apathy. This is apathy. This is not hate. Nebraska's living in hate.

A

I actually included Stanford instead of Cal. I did not include Cal on this list. Do you want to quickly make a case for, for why Cal should be? Because I think they've actually been a little bit better than probably the true bottom out part of this list. And they have fans that actually do seem to be pretty engaged and very much on the Internet and if like not necessarily had great moments in the 2000s but they to me are in a kind of a different discussion with how they're treated and how like what college football fans think of them. Because even like they're like how they've really leaned into who their identity is, like what their university is about politically speaking and all those different things I think is more so it's, it is like actually not apathy. And they don't really feel like they're coming from a place of pain in the way that I think others on this list are.

C

Yeah, I mean here's the thing about Cal. They have this albatross of like this earthquake proof stadium that is just sinking their athletic budget. They're like in the exact opposite.

A

It's just a giant sinkhole.

C

Yeah, it's like the type of. Yeah, it's like the money pit. It's like, it's like if you're you know, like a young couple and you buy a fixed her upper house and you just keep, you just keep finding stuff wrong with it. Like that's their situation to the point where like they're not ever going to get out of that. Like they truly are going to have to get some type of government bailout. It's like the most to your point about the California identity. This is like what people in the south specifically laughing California about. It's like you literally have your stadium on layaway. Like the only reason they're letting you use it is because you need to get some return on investment. This is like the sewer system in Jefferson county, in Birmingham was for a long time it was like how could you even get out from under this? It doesn't even make money. And so like that being said, I think that puts them in a larger void because they're really in a disadvantageous situation in every negotiation they're in, you know, with recruits, with conferences. I mean the ACC much has been made of the deal that they made with SMU for instance, but they could make the exact same type of deal with Cal if you know let's say an FSU or Miami were to go to the table and say we need more. Cal is the first one to go right there because they have no life wrath. It's really the ACC just doing them a favor and that's all they have going for them. So yeah, I, I think that, yeah, they've had some wins and stuff here. They've also had obviously great NFL talent, but they just have no path to. I mean they actually physically own the things that are in their building.

A

Really exciting sophomore quarterback though. That's going to be really fun to watch. And I, I do think that they could be in a different spot with Tosh lapoi as their head coach. The way that they recruit a little bit different than the way that Stanford recruits. So I, I just thought, like I looked at them side by side and that's why I didn't include them because I'm like any argument that I can make against Cal, I can make against Stanford. You know what I mean? And I think it's worse and the results have been worse. But yeah, I mean, I don't think they've been necessarily living la vida Loca in the 2020s either. Shout out Ricky Martin.

C

Sure. Yeah. I just pulled up, I just pulled up an article here. It says that they, they, by their estimations, will be paying off this football scared people. This football stadium until the year 2112

A

that doesn't even exist. That's never real.

C

We, that we maybe we will be owned by robots by the end. They're really banking on not a Stanford graduate creating those robots and a Cal graduate doing it. Because boy howdy, is that just not a thing that can sustain anything.

A

Debt doesn't count if you never have to pay it. That's what I always say. You know, it's like hospital debt.

C

You don't really have to pay it.

A

Yeah, you're fine.

C

This is like the bit from Schitt's Creek where they were just writing things off. You can't just not pay for your football stadium.

A

What do you mean?

C

This isn't safe. They're in hell.

A

All right, ucla, let's stay in the state of California.

C

It just makes sense. Riley feel that much more affordable. Right? It's like everybody else has it worse.

A

Yeah, I actually didn't include USC for this too. Maybe I could have, but I think USC's actually won more games than anybody that's just been totally miserable.

C

They're just in a worldly different situation. Yeah.

A

Yeah. And like you had the Big Ten life rap ucla, Big Ten life raft as well. We could debate whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing, but not enough people talked about how much of a mess UCLA was in the first part of the 2020s, because obviously they get this in to join the Big Ten. It's like, hey, you get to come into the club, you're actually cool. Chip Kelly left UCLA to take the Ohio State OC job. And you could definitely make the case that he was getting fired the next year and that he was just picking his next move. And we're seeing that become a lot more common in college football. Two things can be true at the same time. One is that like that probably was his reality. Another truth is that UCLA's nil budget in the early 2000s was a joke. I mean, I talked to, I've talked to multiple coaches who have told me that it was laughable when they found out the money that they had devoted to football. Like, truly, truly laughable. Like this has to be a typo type of disregard that they had for funding that. And it spoke to a lot of the issues that they've had the last three years with the Sean Foster, two of those years with him. I think that has since improved their funding. It certainly has if you're getting someone like Bob Chesney, who is regarded in coaching circles, is one of the top up and comers. But that's the type of misstep that can lead to obscurity in this era. And we talk about apathy. So you know, you've, you've got that like, that that's all part of kind of the past. And, and I think the first half of the 2000s and this Big Ten move has certainly complicated things because in theory you've netted more money, but it made it a lot tougher for your fans to travel. And you feel like anytime your team is playing in a road game in the Big Ten, like, great cross country flight, this is gonna suck. They're gonna lose year two in the Big Ten. They were bottom 10 in the country in both scoring offense and scoring defense. Sure. You got Nico Yamalayava. Maybe with the new coach, you're gonna unlock the five star talent. We'll see Bob Chesney and his staff, I've heard this too, apparently thinks that they're like Signetti 2.0 with what they've been telling. Yeah, they're like, oh, we have, we have the model for success. We were at James Madison too. We know what's going to work. They're apparently, like, telling people that behind the scenes, which is interesting. I'll wait and see, I'll wait and see on how that plays out the argument against UCLA. They went 25 and 13 in the final three years under chip, you know, and then you got the desired next step from the PAC12 collapse. If you were left out to dry, maybe you'd be a leader in this discussion. But to me, your path back to relevance, it makes more sense than a lot of these others. And I could see that path with Bob Chesney. So I. I don't necessarily put them in that same class. But I will ask you, Will, who is having a worse time in the 2000 and twenties? Auburn, Nebraska or UCLA?

C

This is a skip to me. I mean, again, they just don't really care. You know, what are your false Saturdays like? You live in la, you're in Everything is Cool. You don't really care about football. You don't spend the money. You can't be too sad.

B

Okay.

A

All right, let's move on to Purdue. I mean, Indiana just went 160 and won a national championship while you couldn't win a Big Ten game for the second consecutive year. Need I say more? You just end it right there. I will say one of your best coaches ever, Jeff Braum, left you for his alma mater and you've gone 7 and 30 without him. That's not quite UMass, but it's like, not that far off. That included two and out for Ryan Walters and then, in my opinion, overpaying Barry Odom to clean up his mess. That's still work in progress. It is a mess that is certainly more complicated by being a very distant third in your own state behind Indiana and Notre Dame. Signetti's teams, if you're keeping track at home, they have outscored Purdue 122. 3. So that's tough. The argument against Purdue, for half of the 2000s, you had a guy with a clue. Purdue had a real identity under Jeff Braum. And this might sound crazy because Purdue hasn't, like I said, beaten a Big Ten team since 2023. But. But Jeff Brown went 6 and 3 in Big Ten play in consecutive seasons. They beat a pair of top five teams in 2021 when they won nine games. They then beat Tennessee in the Music City bowl on a goal line stand ruling that everyone totally agreed on and hasn't been talked about since. I think a program who has had those highs, who hasn't had true embarrassment beyond just really bad football, is probably safe here. From the leader of the pack. But I'll ask anyway. Will, who has had a worse time in the 2000 and twenties? Auburn, Nebraska or Purdue?

C

As a guy who spent some time there, I mean, at this point, how much do you think they care about football Saturdays?

A

Yeah, I mean, I think there is still a desire to get back to that level. And they, they could have great crowds under Braum. Like they had some fun times. I mean, RIP Rondell Moore. The Ron El Moore 2018 game against Ohio State is like an all time. This is why you need to watch in a given Saturday type of game or how on fire they were. And you know, that place more times than not has been pretty sad. But if you build it, they will come. That's actually not the line. It's. If you build it, he will come. I watched Field of Dreams on Sunday night. Little, little Father's Day, tears rolling down at the end, you know. But I do think that that fan base responds to winning in ways that I like. I think there is some sense of urgency. Obviously, what they've done with basketball with Matt Painter, like you can make the case that it's just strictly a basketball school now and they don't care as much about football. I still think they care. I definitely think that they care. But, but it's not a level of apathy like, like Stanford. I definitely wouldn't go to those places.

C

Yeah, I think that when your rival does what they've done, you really just wave a white flag and say, hey, we're the basketball school, you're the football school. Get off me. We're not talking about this. You know, yeah, maybe.

A

And that, that's a good argument. Like it's, it's a weird argument that it's played out this way because, because

C

they started as the football school, but ultimately it's all about agendas. I think they have an agenda they can cling to because they're not getting any. Getting to Indiana levels for sure.

A

Do you know how many national championships Purdue has?

C

I actually don't.

A

In sports.

B

Look it up.

C

Is it, Is it zero? How about that? What's a produce land here on this beautiful day?

A

I'm just saying I've said a lot of nice, I said a lot of nice things about Jeff Brahm, Eric Purdue. It's been bad since then. I got pushed back on Barry Odom for including him on our top 10 worst contracts. And that's one where I wish I could have had the context because a lot of people are like, oh, it's way Too early. It's way too early. And my whole argument is like, I just think he's. I think he was really overpaid for a job that I don't know that he's capable of doing.

C

Has he ever been good? That's the thing is, that was my point. It's like, oh, wait till he gets to vintage Barriot. Still bad anyway.

A

Yeah. Like, I, I don't know that I could just give him credit for rebuilding Mizzou post Gary Pinkle. Like, I, I don't think I, I looked at that situation and thought, oh my gosh, he totally rebuilt them and like, got them back off the ground. Whereas, like, the situation in Memphis was a little bit different. I, I don't know. I, I have a, I have a tougher time with Barry Odom and I think that there could definitely be some, some bad money that's been spent there.

C

Okay.

A

A few that we're just gonna rip through here that maybe you'll have stronger feelings than I will. But I wanted to at least bring them up. Will Virginia Tech only one winning season in the 2000s. But they're so back, though.

C

They're so back then.

A

Yeah, look, it was a 7 and 6 season that came thanks to a Military Bull win against Tulane. That's the loan winning season. Frank Beamer's two successors have both flamed out. They're on their third certain guy named Big Game James. I talked about how bad Brent Pry was in those close games. That's. There's a certain level of torture when your fan base just knows in a close game that your team's just not going to get it done. And swipe. Nebraska is certainly the. As tortured of a fan base as there's been in the last, you know, 10 years. It was the face and well, I don't know if you remember this too. Virginia Tech was the face of the it's so good to have fans back in the stands feeling of 2021 with the very first enter Sandman that popped. And I think it was a Thursday night or a Friday night game against UNC. UNC was a top 10 team. Sam hall was back and they won that game. And then since then, they're 1 in 11 against AP top 25 teams, with the lone win being a Military bowl win against tulane. So only two wins against ranked foes in the entire 2000s. For a program as respected as Virginia Tech, you've got the ACC split looming as the end of the 2000 and twenties approaches. And I think whether they admit it or not, Virginia Tech is very desperate to avoid getting left out of future realignment. They want to be if there is any sort of super conference that forms or hey, this team is getting that bid and this team's getting this. They don't want to be like, hey, we're on the outside looking in. They don't want to have any sort of, sort of relegation scenario because they've had this, this awful decade and really that's what it's been.

B

So

A

the thing that's lacking though and the reason why I didn't want to include them in the I guess the tier 2, 21 and 28 versus the ACC and it's not like you had to watch your rival become the face of the sport and you've avoided scandal and real national embarrassment outside of like Diego Pavia coming into your building and pretty much putting curtains on the Brent Pryor. That's kind of it in terms of your embarrassment. So didn't want to include them in the earlier part of this discussion, but probably needs to be mentioned as a fan base that's just hoping and praying that James Franklin can be that guy.

C

Look, I mean I know I've cautioned against ODing on hopium, but I think at the end of the day I think they won this coaching cycle. I would argue even more so than LSU given their expectations. I think that talked ad nauseam about the DMV recruiting area and how whoever's controlled that area up that coast has done amazing things. You can think about Iverson, the Vix, Jonathan Allen, EJ Manual. Yeah. Who's our guy that's at Clones or that's at South Carolina. That's super fast. I somehow blanking those names.

A

Yeah.

C

Another DMV recruit. Right. And so I think that if you just take. I was talking to my stepbrother about this because he's like oh yeah, what about James? James Franklin's overrated. It's like if you just copy paste their results at Penn State with a 12 team playoff at VTEC against a softer schedule. Oh my God, they're so back. And that's all you really have to he had gotten some good guys out of that region before. And so I think it's definitely, it's disappointing for this point in time, but it feels like they've already crossed the the Rubicon.

A

If they were still in the Brent Pry era as a head coach, not as a defensive coordinator, then we'd be having a different discussion, but because they've moved on. It's weird for me to argue for James Franklin. I think that they're safe here. Maybe if the James Franklin thing bottoms out and they're really, really bad in the ACC and they're all of a sudden left out, then we can have that discussion later in the 2000 and twenties.

C

Delaware. My fault. Anyway.

A

How dare you not know your east coast geography. Will Rutgers 0 and 15 against ranked foes in the 2000s.

C

Yeah.

A

Bad. Rutgers would kill to have a moment like what Auburn had with Cadillac. You know they haven't had that. Their best moment was getting Shiano back. That. That was really it. He's in year seven of his tenure. He is still searching for his first ranked win. And the reason that Rutgers.

C

He's been there seven years. Geez.

A

Started in 2020. Start this. Yeah, I think. What is he at? I don't know the total years. He's been there 15 years before, including his first stint.

C

I just mean this time it feels like that's still a fresh hire. To be like that was. Yeah, I'm looking. It's all Greg shot. Wow, that is gross.

A

Yeah. And the reason that. That it's not as high as maybe what some would expect. You're not as dysfunctional as Rutgers has been historically. And you can kind of take the good with the bad with. With Shiano. With like your guy running the program. No scandal in the 2000s like what you had with Kyle Flood in 2015, which was kind of ugly. No. No coach firings in the 2000s. You've actually been to three bowl games in that stretch though. One of them was just because everyone was opting out of bowl games in 2021. What? Watched more Rutgers football in the 2000s than any person should. I think they've been more watchable in the 2000 and twenties. I've talked about. I like their skill players. Antoine Raymond's good player.

C

K.J.

A

duff, fun player. And again you have Shano. So how bad of a time is it from that perspective? I'm asking Rutgers fans that, by the way. Not Tennessee fans.

C

Sorry, I gotta keep the bike muted. That's. That was good. Yeah. I mean it's. You know, on one hand you could say. Well, because like if you would ask me all, like if I say four years, I just. It feels like it's been a time suck because I've had.

A

I would agree with you. It's gone by way quicker than I would have imagined.

C

I mean, I don't know how old is Greg Shiano? Because that's the other part of it

A

is he late 50s? Is he like, let me guess, is he 58?

C

Yeah, let's see. 60. Just. Just. Actually, yeah. Just turned 60 in June. So, you know, if he's happy there, you get a couple more years out of him. Let's say, I don't know, four or five maybe. I mean, he's obviously going to be your. I mean, do you build a great shadow statue when he retires? Depends on our ends, I guess.

A

He needs more. He needs more.

C

More funniest statue discussion of all time. He's gonna have like 30 seasons there and like 14 winning seasons.

A

Tennessee fans come in and just vandalize it.

C

It's like that's actually why you can't put up a Kregian statues to see if fans will just pop up like the children of the court and start spray painting it. Anyway. Yeah, I mean they were kind of in financial hell for a minute. I think that being in the Big Ten matters. I think they were able to get their guy hold on to him. Obviously, again, it's all about expectations. I think they're just fine. The three bowl games matters. Again, like you don't really expect much out of Rutgers. They're, you know, New Jersey's team and all that. But most of the guys up there, probably NFL fans, I think they're doing just fine.

A

Full media contract cut too. That's a good thing.

C

Yeah.

A

First few years in the Big Ten where you weren't getting that and you're only getting a certain slice of the pie. I don't remember. I think that went through like 2018. I don't remember exactly. It was something like that. But getting a full media, you know, piece of the pie, that's good.

B

That's good.

A

Living could be a whole lot.

C

I think getting above that was a really big deal. Getting Shadow, having him stay, I think they've done enough to where I'm not like bummed about it, you know.

A

Yeah. West Virginia, similar to Rutgers. You brought the guy back that made you relevant in the Big east. So you feel better about that. Even though last year wasn't great. Better QB situation for Rich Rod this year. Michael Hawkins Jr. Coming over from Oklahoma, really intrigued there. That's a nice little fit. He's got some John Rice Plumly to his game. Very interested. But there was a hope that Neil Brown could be Jeff Brahmish and instead that didn't really work out. Four ranked wins in the 2000s, just like Auburn, plus four bowl appearances. Probably not enough dysfunction or angst for me to Say that this is the leader, but potentially in the hunt if things flame out with Rich Rod, and if Rich Rod is like three years and out and even like the guy that brought you your golden years, it's since past his time. Then we're talking about panic. And then all of a sudden you're looking up going, man, we can't even keep our head above water in the Big 12, which is supposed to be all over the place and anybody can have a year. Then all of a sudden you're going, oh, boy, this could get real grim.

C

Tbd and Richard, I'm with you.

A

Yeah.

B

Okay.

A

Well, just to cover our bases, just, just to cover it, because there are people that are listening to this going, guys, you are 85 minutes into this podcast and you haven't asked the question zealous. You part of this. You can answer that question better than I could.

C

I mean, LSU, I think that the 2022 season does a lot of heavy lifting.

A

I think so too.

C

I think beating Alabama, making like, that's a point that I've made about, okay, we're talking crap with like, you know, ole Mississippi State. Brian Kelly won the SEC west more than Ole Miss has. Like that, like that matters ultimately beating Nick Saban at Alabama. Now, have you beaten girl Deborah? No, but they did beat Nick Saban. I think that there have been enough. Here's the thing about lsu. I love T. Bob's comp of, you know, we are Greece, where, yeah, LSU might be putrid, but they're going to have one or two signature wins every year that are just lit, that are just like, you're beating a top 10 team because you play so many good teams. Yeah, you'll get your brains beaten by Alabama, right, in 2020, but you'll beat Florida. You know, I think that's the thing about LSU is that when they decide to stop shooting themselves in the kneecap, which might be never, they. They actually can put together like at one game a year. That can make you happy. And then also, you know, Lane Kiffin hiring and just generally not rooting for Brian Kelly. I think that rooting for Brian Kelly bums you out a lot, obviously. I think, I mean, if you guys want to see sadness, go back to the. The pod we did right after that where my eye looked like a raccoon. My eyes are just so, like, sunk into my head. I'm just like, oh, my God, this is hell. It's been bad. But that being said, the. To be fair, the championship happened after the year 2020, and there has been an SEC championship or championship appearance in there. Which not.

A

I was worried about that.

B

That.

C

Yeah.

A

Like technically they did. Even though we do not call it. LSU was not the 2020 National Champs. They were the 2019 National Champs. Having said that, from a calendar perspective for this discussion, they won their national championship in 2020. So that has to probably be part of it. And there's a reason why I'm more just asking this question to see how you would answer it. But yeah, it's a fascinating sliding doors to 2022 because LSU winning on that play. The touchdown pass to. To Mason Taylor or the two point conversion. It was right. Two point conversion to Mason Taylor. Yep. Which I mean probably LSU's best post Joe Burrow moment.

C

Right.

A

Like that's what we're talking about here.

C

Yeah.

A

You could make the case because that knocks Alabama out of the national title discussion. Bama tried to tell you that it deserves a spot in the 14 playoff even though their best win was against a pair of of teams from Mississippi that both had four losses. But if LSU doesn't beat Bama, does Bama win that national championship that year? Is the question that we'll never get an answer to because yes, Kirby had already exercised those demons beat Nick Saban in 2021 the previous year there was a feeling that that Georgia team wasn't quite as good and Bama would have played for an SEC championship against Georgia. Now maybe they would have both still made the playoff because obviously Georgia was undefeated at that point. But could Bama have won that and then gone on to win a national championship and then Nick Saban retires after that instead of after 2023? We'll never know. But LSU played a part in that and played a part in what I think is in at least help tell the story of that 2022 season where in Bama was an overwhelming preseason number one and picked to win the national championship that year only to not make the College Football Playoff with two regular season losses. Yeah.

C

And I mean LSU is just the most mercurial team because right. Like I went to three straight Sunday openers that were each a different kind of disastrous. Like I get it. Like again, rooting for Brian Kelly was not that fun. But there were some moments in there. So I think that the ability to hang your hat on a couple of key Saturdays, you know, like I said 2022. Hey, say what you will about 2023, it was fun.

A

You got a Gene Daniels, Heisman, Daniels, Heisman.

C

I think a load if you could give basically every fan Base in the sec, other than, like, Alabama pretty much would take that exact year where you're like, yeah, we're kind of feisty. We have one of the best quarterbacks in college football history. Our defense is horrible, so we have to watch every second. I think they're more like fun years than not fun years. That was a fun year. I agree. I agree.

A

I just. It needed to be said because if we didn't bring up lsu, people would have been like, oh, you're just trying to protect Will. No, no, like, we. We acknowledge all. All the parts of what's been a wild decade so far are for lsu. So who then wins the argument, Will, Auburn or Nebraska? You're going with Nebraska, right? That would be your pick as of. As we sit here today. This is June 24, 2026.

C

I'm gonna go to Nebraska. I'm gonna throw one fact in here. I remember one time at this point, four or five years ago, almost as long as a Ciano tenure, I talked to you kind of like, off record, and I was like, hey, I was talking to my buddy Brady. He said, nebraska is never going to be back. And you just looked at me with. With this grim look in your eyes like, I just told you your dog died. And you're like, will, do you know why Nebraska was so great back in the day? They invented weightlifting. Yeah, good luck doing that again. And that has really stuck with me. This is one of the most impressive stats I've ever heard outside of Iowa State. Hasn't won a conference championship since the Ottoman Empire was around. But, yeah, I think that they are not going to invent weightlifting again. I. I think that they might just be in hell.

A

They might be. You said a hell a lot. This wasn't the college football hell episode. You know that, right?

B

Like, we.

C

No, I know, but this is. This is, you know, it's projecting forward. That's the part of it, is that we still have four years to go, so you can't, you know, like, it's like you're down here, and we're gonna hold you down here with all of our might.

A

Auburn's my pick today. My pick for December 31, 2029, to be the winner of this discussion is Nebraska. There's a separate story that I'll tell you about Nebraska one time with a certain marketing pitch that they had that. That has always rubbed me the wrong way for the last, oh, nine years. We'll save that one for a different time that's not as relevant for today. But needless to Say I, I, you will not have me, even though I spend time there and have friends that, that love Nebraska and I don't wish pain on them. Like, we've discussed this before, like root for your boys teams and stuff like that. There are, there are some things there that just have never quite sit right that I won't necessarily be banging the drum for them to be relevant. And you will not convince me to tweet about how great their uniforms are, even though they're just trying to distract you. That's what they're trying to do.

C

Sorry. All right, how far is Nebraska from retroactively claiming a title? We haven't even talked about that. That's the main case for Albert is when you're retroactively claiming titles, you're in trouble.

A

They won a lot. Not in legit ways. Well, drug testing was different then, so I don't know how legit it was, but a lot of steroids. There is probably going to be some of that in the future. Matt Rules is. Oh, you're so right, Will. Matt Rule is definitely going to hang a future banner that he had nothing to do with.

C

That's I bet one more midnight Rule year where they're trapped to the contract. That Rule is such a fake. National championship guy.

A

Like, just time your watch to it. Some loss to Northwestern and that banner's going up. He's like, I know we were 8 and 2 this year, but I did smiled research.

C

You know what I always say, do your own research, kids.

A

Like if they're eight and two in this era. And this one guy from back then so that we had these metrics and if you actually factor in yards per play. All right, Matt.

B

Okay.

A

Whatever you need to tell yourself and everybody else.

C

They had a 122 playoff with the big eight, buddy.

A

We would all made it. All right, let's kick it to Tony Catalina. Great to talk some Aggies. He spent a lot of time working on a Marcel Reed piece, had really good access. So I wanted to dig into that with him as well as some Mike Elko talk. So here he is, Tony Catalina. I'm now excited to be joined by a very special guest. It is Tony Catalina. Tony, I need to confess something to you before we get going here. I love a Massachusetts accent. Like, I really do. Like one of my best buddies in the world, my guy, Jackson Malnati. He has a thick Massachusetts accent and it comes out just in very specific times. And I always tell him I want more of that. I want you to say every single word with a thick Massachusetts accent. I think Brian Kelly could have learned a thing or two about that. I. I just want to start by saying that I hope, Hope that you hold on to it forever and that no amount of time in College Station or the south or wherever your career takes you, I hope no amount of time takes it away.

B

Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that, because I was on the radio last week and I've been in Texas College Station for like two years now, and I was on the radio and, you know, when you get flowing, you find that like, flow state. And next thing you know, I'm like, not pronouncing my R's and I'm like, wait a minute, I gotta take a step back here. And, and you know, I try to get my politically correct voice, but. But sometimes it comes out. And you know what? I think that's a reminder that I probably need to touch. Touch home base a little bit here soon.

A

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. So you've, you've obviously been on the beat and you've gotten some, some pretty cool opportunities with what you've been doing. Your transition from the Statesman to 24 7. Basically, the last piece that you did for, for the Statesman was this All Access piece with spending time around Marcel Reed, a guy that a lot of people are talking about going into this season. I always love doing these stories with people because you just get a different sort of insight and see kind like, what's an act, what's not really an act, what's performative, what's not. And maybe it's not a full, you know, transparent type thing, but usually it's, It's a pretty good window into who someone is. And I, I got to imagine you had some takeaways from your time with Marcel. What was your biggest takeaway from being able to, to spend that day with him?

B

Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny because that day started at 6 o' clock in the morning and, and a large part of that story was telling the fact that like, like it was really an off day. Right. Like, this is the day they weren't supposed to practice. You know, it was supposed to be walked through some light stuff. And, and he's in the building at 6, 20 in the morning. They're doing hydration tests. He's got lifts, he's got, you know, he's meeting with coaches and, and they're breaking down film from the practices and some scrimmages and, and so just being able to be there with him for like 12 hours. And just to see what like his day looks like and like I said in an off day was really fascinating. But what I came away from it most was just the Marcel that you see on Tech Sags and he's just like funny and he's goofy and you know, somebody who just like is very candid in, in his moments with the media. It's all really authentic. He's such a good kid. I mean obviously a coach's son. His dad, Rod raised him really well, him and his mom and just well spoken. You could see him like when he's with his players, he's just a college kid, right? He's with his teammates, he's just a kid. But as soon as you know, Joey lynch, the QB coach walks in the room, he's yes sir, no sir. He's just really respectful, understands it. And when you get to see him lock in and really study, he's just a student of the game, right? You wouldn't expect anything less from a guy who grew up around a Division 1 program and his dad just kind of bringing him along in, in that ride. So my biggest thing is he's a kid who's very aware of the conversation about him. He understands what the end of last year looked like, like what is a challenging him or what is expected of him in, you know, this second season as a full time starter. Just really impressed by his work ethic because again, this is a lot of the stuff that these kids would rather be at home or, you know, you're in College Station, you're the king of the castle in College Station. He can go and do whatever he wants, but he takes his time to really hone in on that craft and just, you know, I just see an authentic kid, a kid who really wants it, understands what needs to be done and he's really looking to take another leap this year.

A

I think he has to. I think he would like he'd be the first person to admit there are some pretty defined strengths and weaknesses with his game. And you know, I, I did my, my SEC quarterback rankings for Texags and he's all like, he's the biggest lightning rod of conversation probably of anyone on that list. And I had settled on six for him, which I was kind of wondering how that was going to be received. And you had some people that are like, oh my God, he's not even, he shouldn't even be top 10 in the SEC. And then others who are like, how is he not top three? And that just kind of tells you where People are at with him and I, I, I think that, that people are kind of wondering what's his ceiling? Because if he doesn't improve in the intermediate it's going to be rough. He can't have so many turnover worthy plays in non blitzing situations. Like again the weaknesses are pretty defined. What do you think his ceiling is this year in 2026?

B

I think you, you got him right where he's at. I think in my opinion I probably have him at 6, 2. I think this conversation to put him at 5 but I probably wouldn't go much higher and if you wanted to go a couple spots lower, like I'm here for the combo. But that being said, yeah, I think for him you're right. It's the, it's the decision making, it's, it's making the right read. It's, it's kind of, you know, being more concise with his decision making, understanding that you know it's okay to take that intermediate shot instead of going for the deep shot that's going to make a third and 10 right. Go, go and get four and five. You can't go broke taking a profit. And I think with Holman Wiggins, and I know he's a huge question mark about this team too is just what is this offense going to look like in a first year play caller. But every time we got a chance to talk to him he's like hey, Marcel is going to have a hand in this offense. He's going to have a hand in what we look like. We're going to build it around his strengths, we're going to build it around this team strengths and just more so in that is he's going to build it in a QB friendly structure, right? He wants it to get the ball out quick, he wants it maybe one or two reads, get the ball out in space, let your playmakers make plays. I think the culmination of being another year stronger, another year wiser and having a QB coach, a QB coach, offensive coordinator who wants to build this around him to be successful. I think we're going to see an organic tick. But as far as the ceiling goes, I really don't know if there is a cap on it. I mean he's, he's working with Jeff Christensen, a renowned QB coach. He's believed that he's going to take another 5 to 10% leap from when I talked to him he said he took a 10 to 17 leap last year. So, so if that's the progression in a year two as a starting Quarterback, I think it's the ceiling.

C

Tony, great to see you, man. I'll ask a little bit deeper down the same road of that question. Right. You know, when Reed has struggled, has been as a passer, we know he's a dynamic runner, and that's something that has kind of gone back and forth over the course of his career. When it break down, when it breaks down for him, we kind of know how that looks. Right. So you spoke on the most ideal version of him and this offense, you know, are they trying to build him into a, you know, Manning type passer? Are they going to try to lean on his legs? Like, what is the perfect version of Marcel Reed look like?

B

Yeah, I think that's a great question for me. I think for him, it's kind of taking the governor off. I think last year they kind of built it around. Well, we can't get him hurt. We can't lose them. Like, let's not put him in situations where he can put himself in risk. I think now, as, you know, a rising junior, a veteran quarterback, somebody who has some, you know, skin in the game now, they're going to get them out in space, they're going to roll them out, they're going to condense the field, cut the field in half, make them have easier reads, let him use his. His legs. That run against LSU where he rolled out completely and then took off, like, that's. That's the stuff you can't prepare for. I don't care who you are. A guy who's looking for a deep shot and then he can turn on the burners and go 60 yards for a touchdown. They just got to let him be him. And I think, you know, to. To their credit, they were trying. First year quarterback. What is this kid's strengths? What can he do? Let's try to keep it within structure here. But I think what we realized with Marcel is he has quality arm talent, but he's best when he's out there and he's kind of just playing ball. And I think that's something Holman Wiggins really wants to hone in on. It's hard to kind of quantify what that looks like, but if you just let the kid go be a kid, I think he has a chance to be his best version of himself.

C

We've seen the inherent risks of the LSU fan asking about Marcel Reed because that's exactly when he looked the best was against lsu. Great. Okay. I do remember that. Oh, no. But that being said, let's pivot to L. Elko for a second. Obviously he's a defensive minded coach. That's where he's hung his hat a lot of the time. They've lost a lot of that side of the ball via the draft. It's a good problem to have. Right. So what do you think the identity of this team overall is going into 2026?

B

Yeah, I think it's still going to be tough, right. I think with the, with Lyle Hemphill in the, in the fold, there's probably going to be a little bit more zone principles. I think he's going to have his little fingerprint on the defense, so to speak. But make no bones about it. This is Mike Elko squad, this is his unit. I think they're going to be creative in their past rush. I think they're still going to try to get after the quarterback. It's. They've been middling at best that stopping the run over the last, you know, first two seasons. They got to find a way to be better there. I know losing Damien Sanford for however long that is the linebacker who's, you know, a captain now, that's not going to help. Obviously that's going to hinder them in some point. What, no matter how long he's out for. But they got D.J. hicks, they feel really encouraged by a former five star defensive tackle in the middle there. They got Ray Coney who's super productive at Tulsa. I just think they want to be physical, they want to be hard nose and, and you know, after you. If you look at this team from 2024 when USC was carving them up in the Las Vegas bowl and they couldn't stop the pass. To say that their strength now is the secondary is a crazy testament to what they've been able to build and grow and just find in the portal because arguably their safeties, they're gonna have two veteran returners and they got Des Ricks along with Ricky Gibson. Like they're going to be able to defend the pass. So how can they get after the quarterback? Can they use that to the advantage? And I expect Elko to find a, a plan that works great for them.

A

This team's got to be able to run the ball. I think all the questions we can ask about them. You'd feel better if one of those things that was a constant was just, oh yeah, they. You can rely on them to, to be able to pick up 200 yards in an SEC game and do so on the ground. I have held on to my Reuben Owen stock. I had a lot of it towards the end of 2024. And I think last year it's. It felt more like a get his legs under him type of season. I think it's pretty noteworthy that they didn't sign a running back out of the portal and they're really young in the backfield behind him. If you look at all the freshmen and, you know, like second year guys, they're rolling out there. What should we expect from him? Because he's kind of going to be left out of these top tier SEC running back conversations. Understandably so. But as someone that comes in, I think still with a lot of potential and now maybe a little bit healthier and feeling like himself, like, what do you think the ceiling is? You know, to ask the same question that I asked of Marcel Reed.

B

Yeah, I think me and you have a lot of the same things. I think we saw the same vision for Ruben Owens. He's somebody who's dynamic, obviously a guy who can get the ball and hit the home run shot. He's somebody who is just a supreme athlete in that sense. But I think some of the conversation around him, you're right, just trying to get his feedback, trying to find, you know, ways to get healthy. But his, his interior, the way he runs the football in the interior was more impressive than I thought. Like, I think when you watch the film and you look at some of the deep analytics, like he was more productive off the hip of the right guard and the left guard than Le'Veon Moss was, which was really, really impressive and really eye opening when you look at that. So I say that to say you're right. They don't have much behind them as far as proven talent. But Jamari Amuro, a lot of people are expecting a big step up from him. K.J. edwards, a true freshman, is somebody who has really flashed in the spring, and I think there is high hopes for him to be a year one guy. But this group, like you said, goes with Reuben Owens. I think he's somebody who can take the lead first year as a guy who's going to be the RB one, like, he knows it. This is his group, this is his unit. It comes with a different edge this off season to get ready and prepare for that. He did lead the team in Russian yards and attempts last year because Le'Veon Mosses, it was banged up, dealing with injuries. But. But it's a huge year for him. I mean, for people like you and me, who rightfully so had stock in a kid who thinks that he can be a really good football player, I Think there isn't. Like I said with Marcel, it's hard to put a ceiling on it because I don't even think we really scratched the surface for how good he could really be. It's really going to be about him. You know, I spoke to Troop Taylor, you know, the running backs coach for Texas A M, and, and he kind of said he issued him a challenge, right? Like, this is the guy who we, we. We're going to lean on, we believe in. But if what they do and how they can run the football is going to come on his back, now go and take it and embrace that moment.

C

Tony, I love that you shouted out the USC game in, in the last answer there. You know, two years in a row, I actually said right around the LSU game, hey, this year is a success for Elko. It kind of doesn't matter what happens from here. And then both years, something has happened, right? A loss to Texas, you know, bowl game loss, whatever it would be. And it feels like they've gotten to this point where it's like, wow, this is such an amazing turnaround. And then they've just kind of backslid a little bit. And so looking into this 2026 season, right? Like, how can they avoid fading as the year goes on?

B

No, I mean, that's the number one thing, right? You look at the way they started last year, 11, 0 lose their two most important games. You can't lose an Austin, and then you can't lose a Miami. And you know, it just the way that that season ended is what the bad taste in the mouth of this fan base is. It's just what it is, right? And so. So I think that's the next step. We saw this team go from eight wins to 11 wins, college football Playoff appearance, hosting a game, like, there's a lot of positive momentum. They even look good at the front end of November. Right? So you felt like that was some things that they were kind of resurrecting in real time. But then at the end of the year, it's a familiar finish for this team in this program. Elko's gonna. If he's gonna take the next step. And I think that arguably year three is probably the most important year in the Elko tenure, in my opinion. Right, because you saw the progress. You see them make the playoffs. But this year is the year you try to put the country on notice and say, hey, that wasn't a flash in the pan. This wasn't a one off. We're going to be a consistent contender. This is the Team, this is the program you're going to have to worry about every single year. So. And in order to do that, you're going to have to beat Texas, right? You're going to have to find ways to be successful at the end of the year. Scheduling the SEC is not getting any easier. You're going to play nine conference opponents, you're going to play tough, you're going to play Alabama, Oklahoma, both on the road. Road like this is just not going to get easy. So to that point there isn't just one way to do it, but to simplify it is just win games when it matters. Right? I even talked about that. You got to find ways to win games that matter. And I don't know if any game the Friday after Thanksgiving is bigger than that one.

C

Do you think there's something inherently about Elko or the way this team prepares, do they over train? What is it that's led to that two years in a row?

B

You think it's interesting? I just, I wonder. Some of it is coincidental, some of it is just meeting, you know, a buzzsaw. I, I do, I really do think there's something about whenever A M Texas comes together, it doesn't matter what sport, there's just these emotions, there's this, this like this energy about it that just obviously it's a big deal in the fan bases, obviously a big deal to the state. It just feels like the moment gets really intense and I think even somebody from Massachusetts could feel that pressure in that room. Them, right, they can feel it. I know people, I've talked to people and you know, I laugh at this, but I'm like, hey, you go 111 in every year and lose to Texas and make it the playoffs, are you happy with that? And there's people that push back on that. I'm like, I, I don't know if I would push back on that, but I don't know if there's one thing or the other. I think the bowl game against Las Vegas, I give them a little grace. It wasn't the team that they rolled out there all year, but you know, flat out losing to Miami, losing the Texas, that's something they're going to find. I have to find a way to get better at.

A

Will was looking for a very specific answer there. You don't know that, but I do. And he was looking for a very specific answer related to a certain strength coach that left LSU for Texas A M and whether or not they're over trained.

C

No, that was an open ended question. I just wanted to get perspective.

B

Huh?

A

Totally. Tony, I, you talk about, about Holman Wiggins and the first time play caller element of, of what goes into this and you know, I, I think it's a massive question mark because you can find cases in college football where a first time play caller has been fine and it's worked out great and then you find others where it flames out and you're just kind of left wondering why did they do this internal promotion when. Even though I think down the stretch last year there were some tough moments for Colin Klein as a play caller, even though I think we all felt really good about him in positions that he was putting Marcel Reed in. But what is the, the, the feeling like now knowing that that kind of looms and we're really not gonna know. I don't know that we're gonna know. Know how good he is as a play caller until like maybe even late October. Like it's going to take a while for us to feel like he's either got this and, and he knows the best way to maximize this offense or he doesn't.

B

Yeah, you're right. I think it's, it's, it's really hard and I, I'm totally with you because you're not going to be able to get a definitive answer on who Holman Wiggins. The, the play caller is until you said until they're. We're in the mix here for conference play. But you know, talking to people in the program, even asking Elko about it, it like there's a full confidence in it now. They're going to say that publicly, they're going to say that. But ultimately from what I've seen from home and Wiggins is, he's a teacher, he's an educator, he's a, he's a player's coach, but demands excellence. So like some of the different things. Colin Klein was a great coach, somebody I would, I was defending a lot of his decisions last year too. I thought there was rhyme of reasons for even the things that didn't work out last year I can understand. But when I see Elko, I mean, excuse me, when I see Wiggins, it's just a different demeanor. His attention to detail when it comes to, you know, he'll pull a guy off a drill and explain why he's telling him to teach this, you know, he'll pull Marcel aside and say, hey, I'm looking for this. Or it's just the attention to detail. He knows exactly what he wants. And then when you talk to him, you Say, hey, like what do you want this offense to look like? And, and he won't pigeonhole himself, right? He won't put himself in a box. You know, we talked to Ashton Bethel Roman, the, the third year wide receiver. He's talking about air raid principle Bulls. Then you talk about, hey, we'll lean on the run when you talk to Wiggins. And then you said, I want to be in 11 or 13 personnel or I want to be in, you know, three wide. And so you're talking to him and you're like, oh, he's going to do what is ever dictated needed in that week to week in that season, right? Like this year's team may be a pass for first team and people may look at the guy and be like, oh, wide receiver coach, he's going to sling it around the field. Hey, man, if, if K.J. edwards and Jamari omorrow are studs next year, maybe they're going to ground and pound the ball. So. So I think the best thing I can say for him is he seems open, he seems malleable. But the things that are non negotiables, he's very clear and precise about it with his team.

A

I mentioned that Will was looking for a specific answer related to a strength coach. I was just looking for the answer to whether or not he was going to call a million pass plays when the wind is clearly howling at like, you know, ridiculous rates. That's all I was looking to find out.

B

Well, when you miss a 21 yard field goal that you, you think the, the wind isn't great. There's.

A

Yeah, look, it was rough. It was rough. A few of those games on the stretch. Let's get you out of here with a record prediction and whether you think it'll be worth it for a playoff bid. Go any way you want with it. How does this, this season play out? The, the very pivotal year three for Mike Elko.

B

Yeah, you know, I'm, I'm probably tabbed as one of the more optimistic people, you know, outside, you know, of some, you know, others that may be a little bit more, you know, up, up on it than I am. But I look at this team and obviously there's no doubt about it. The schedule is tougher. Nine SEC teams, they gotta travel to Tuscaloosa, they travel to Norman. It's. You can't look at this squad and not say that it's going to be more of a challenge. But with that being said, I just, I, I believe in Elko and I believe in what he's doing right. I think when you look at the foremost pivotal games. Lsu, Oklahoma, Texas. And I know I'm missing one there, but at Bama. At Bama, yes. You're. Sorry. I said it enough times. I forgot. But, you know, if you can find a way to split those, I think you're in business. If you lose all four, then we know what the deal is, right? There's. You know, they go. They could go aim four if they miss all four of those. So I'm gonna settle in right now and say I think 9 and 3 is realistic. I think 9 and 3 is. I think you'd. Some people probably won't be happy with that, But I think 9, 3 is a real, real possible number. And if things start to swing your way, I could see 10 and 2, but it's gotta really have to go their way to find that.

A

Okay, last. Last one. Nine and three. It doesn't include a playoff berth, but it includes beating Texas. Would that year be better than last year?

B

You know, me, I. I think I said playoffs and lose to Texas every year is probably a successful year, but there's people here who would probably take nine and three with, you know, missed the playoffs and beat Texas. This. I don't know if I agree with that, but I think there's a sector of the fan base that would.

A

I don't know, man. Sometimes just. Just being able to get that one against your rival, it matters a whole lot more.

B

I think the best part, because I've been in the room or been on the field when they've lost to Texas and Kyle Field, and you're like, well, there goes the SEC championship opportunity. Then the next year, they lose in Austin, and quickly they're like, all right, well, we. We got the playoffs. Like, let's. Let's change. I think that mentality mindset was probably a little more comfortable than the 2024 version of the loss.

A

Yeah, I'm just picturing a world in which, like, an 8 and 3aM Team beats Texas. And it's like, that's their Super Bowl. And it's like, hey, they don't care about not making the playoffs.

C

Like, they.

A

They have that and then Maybe even a 10th win in a bowl game. And all of a sudden it's like, it's a better season than the 11.0start, which is just. It's funny how college football works. Tony, this has been a lot of fun. We'll have to do this again in the regular season, man. Really appreciate it.

B

Absolutely. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me.

A

All right, well, let's close with some light of the week. Who you got?

C

This one to me feels a little bit unanimous with a shout out to Skip Johnson and the boys at Oklahoma. Great job. Winning another consecutive championship for the SEC conference has fallen off the face of the earth. As we all know in sports, we

A

can't pay players seven consecutive national championships. Has the SEC ever done that?

C

No. And guess what? LSU is the only repeat. Not repeat, but like multi time in there. It's actually, actually so insane. The two Mississippi schools, Vandy 2 LSU, Oklahoma, like the way that the conference is just built to butt. Everybody in baseball has been like, I've told you guys, watch some college baseball. Like I, I was in Hoover watching this Oklahoma team lose to a bad LSU team and going, why are we even here?

A

This team is 11th in the SEC and one national title.

C

Pretty crazy. Yeah, they like truly, I think they lost one more game after that or maybe two with it lost the other day. But it's just crazy that any team in the SEC could truly win it. So shout out to them. But my nearly unanimous light of the week is Norway striker Erling Haaland. A just absolute whale of a man. The more that I learn about him, the, the more I like him, right? He is a guy that is just so terminally online. He's built like what AI would design as a Viking athlete. I've loved watching Norway. Like I, you know how the World cup goes. You root for America and you kind of pick a secondary team. You're like, they could go a little bit farther and America this year actually kind of has a shot. So I shouldn't say that too loud, but the way that they do the due to row is so sick for Norway. I think that like leaning on that Viking heritage and leaning on that dude who just runs like a gazelle. He's the size of an NFL middle linebacker. He's so funny, he's so gracious. I mean, maybe we'll, you know, find something problematic about him. But everything he's posted, everything he's been about seems to be the right things. And he's the type of guy that's always getting dirty play happening against him because he's so massive and guys, you know, pulling on his shirt and everything and he never really pouts. He's just a great team guy. And so I, I think, you know, he's only 25 from what I looked it up and so it feels like I've been hearing about him forever. But just an absolute, it feels like a Guy that's going to make a lot of money off of this World Cup. He already has four goals scored as I sit here today. And it's gonna be many more and many more so far than Cristiano Ronaldo, which has been very fun to watch. Watch.

B

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C

Hey, Meta, any last minute tables for two tonight? Sure.

B

There's a great Italian restaurant 15 minutes away.

C

Hey, Meta, where's the nearest flower shop?

A

Five minutes away.

B

Straight down Broadway, past the bodega.

A

Their lilies are trending on Instagram.

B

Just saying.

C

Hey, Meta, am I forgetting anything else?

B

How about setting a calendar?

A

Calendar reminder for next year.

B

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A

So put this in football terms for me, like American football terms for me. What non kicking position would he play?

C

I mean, striker is your closest to like a quarterback or a middle linebacker. So he's one of these. He's almost like a Josh Allen. He's a lot. He's very similar to a Josh Allen, but a Josh Allen that wins on

A

the big stage, who is Norwegian and knows it. He's. He's been, you're right, he's been very online. I feel like I've seen a lot of pictures of that dude that just come across my feed. He's got like the, the pose that's been very like synonymous as well. And yeah, I mean, we'd love to see what he could do on an NFL field. Am I right? Yeah.

C

You know, I've noticed this as I've watched a little bit more F1, a little bit more soccer in America, we reward the giant athletes like, like, you know, I feel like Michael Jordan could still beat me up today, you know, even though he's past his prime and everything. Whereas, like the soccer players, like the Messi and stuff like that, they're a little bit smaller. They value finesse out there. And Holland, like so many people, like, of course it's Holland that catches on in the usa. Yeah, he's awesome. He's built like a dn. He's running people over politely.

A

So D end is your final answer.

C

Oh, man, he could play some D end. Like him personally would play dn, but in terms of his role on the soccer field as a quarterback.

A

Love it. Love it. All right, my lad of the week is Matt Miller. And for those who saw this unfortunate news, he posted an update the other day about this and really, really sad he was involved. For those who don't know, Matt Miller, by the way, ESPN NFL draft analyst we've had him on, on this show probably like, last time we had him on, I think, would have been like, five years ago. He's. I mean, he's big time now. He used to be a Bleacher Report NFL draft scout on Twitter. Very, very well known within football communities, and was involved in a very scary car crash in which he had to be airlifted to the hospital and had to have an emergency amputation of his left arm. If you saw the picture of his car afterwards, you're like, oh, my God, how in the world did he survive that? Like, really, really scary. And I. I think anybody that has known Matt and his story in the past has seen how inspiring he is as just a guy that doesn't have the NFL background. Like, even, you know, even like a Field Yates or something like that, or like a Todd McShay. Like, Todd McShay briefly played college football or, like, field had really good connections playing lacrosse and then, you know, worked. Worked in the NFL before he, you know, did the ESPN stuff. And, like, not to say that their paths are more traditional, but Matt is just someone that grew up idolizing Mel Kuiper and just said, I love the NFL draft and I want to be Mel Kuiper and did not have the football background in the way that so many do. And it's just worked his tail off to get to this place where now he is a mainstay on that desk during the NFL draft. And that is a really, really big deal. And especially for someone that doesn't come from, you know, the traditional background in the way that he does. And I know that he has inspired a lot of people to follow their passion. And if you truly believe that you can do something, go out there and just start doing it. Start making content and be that person. And my only hope with seeing this is that he's going to inspire a lot more people who have physical limitations to go out and do great things. Because I hope that Matt will be able to make a full comeback and that we're still going to see him as a part of ESPN's draft coverage and much, much more because he's got so much insight and knowledge. And that guy can just remember people that you're just like, oh, my God, like, your Rolodex is kind of crazy with the things that you can pull out about specific people. And yeah, I was reminded of one of our college friends is. Her name's Lindsey or Doty. And we, like, I met her. Lauren and I both met her while we were working on the newspaper staff, and she was on management the year that Lauren was and, like, sat across from us. And a year before we had met her, she was involved in a. A car crash that involved her having to have an emergency amputation as well. And she now lives without part of her arm. And last year, fast forward to like, last year, we were at her wedding and it was this beautiful wedding and stuff like that. She's found, you know, someone that, like, really, really makes her happy. And she's. She said some other things in her life that have just been very unfortunate that I won't get into, but it was a reminder of, like, she had this catastrophic thing happen to her. And now I think he's doing a lot of good in the world and like, showing people you can do very, very great things. She's, you know, great journalist in Indianapolis and is living a happy life. And my hope for Matt is that he uses his platform to inspire others and to be able to continue to live out his passion in the way that he has for a really long time. So just an awful thing that when you see it, you're like, oh, my God, like, really, like you endured something like that. Crazy. Like, I, I had no idea until I saw the update. It just absolutely gutted for him, a father of two and, and hope that he has good days ahead and hope that he can inspire many people.

C

Matt Miller, this is probably the highest praise I could give for someone. He's one of the very short listed people that has cooked me on Twitter into respecting him.

A

So that's hard to do.

C

20 or this event, 2018, 2019. I was really obviously a fantasy football sticker. Didn't have a lot going on in my life at that point. I was very high on rookie O.J. howard, and usually when I get into it with people, I have a little bit of insight. And he was like, look, even if you like O.J. howard, which I don't, I don't like him as a rookie. Tight ends don't produce in that level. Hit me with all these stats. You know me. I was like, you don't know. You didn't watch him. He did. He did the check back of the year, check back in a year, and guess who was right? Not Will. And so I remember being like, all right, game recognized. You got me. You're smarter than me. You're right. And so since then, I've kind of like followed his career and respected him a ton because he got into the weeds with me and cooked me on my, my terms, which is really hard to do. And then I went. I really hope this guy goes great places, like I said, follow his career and really rooted for him since then. So really just a tragic thing to have happened. But to your point, he's a tough guy. He's been around and he didn't come this far. To come this far. Yeah.

A

And. And hope that whatever road awaits him with recovery, he just absolutely crushes it. And, and man, what an awesome thing. Like, I know I kind of make fun of some of the manufactured moments with the NFL draft at times because it really just does seem like, hey, they're desperate for something on day three and they're just gonna, they're really gonna ham this up. Seeing him on the desks next year, I don't know. Again, I don't want to say that that's imminent or anything like that. I have no idea what his path to recovery looks like. But seeing him on that desk, if and when that happens, would be an incredible, incredible, incredible sight for someone who's involved in what is obviously a life changing experience. And I hope we get to see that. I will absolutely root for that. I will root for Matt. I have always rooted for Matt even as he has continued to grow his platform and do just tremendous things with espn. So, yeah, hope he's able to recover, hope his family is doing okay because, man, what a scary thing to do. Seriously, like, look at the picture of that of his family car. You're like, how did a person get out of that? Like that? That to me is like such a hard thing to comprehend. And I, I just am always amazed that that that can possibly happen. But, yeah, very, very scary situation for Matt. All right, I have said it before. I will say it again. Please email us yoji kickoffmail.com if you are someone of that is rooting for a team and you just have not had a very good time in the 2000 and twenties, we would love to be able to hear from you. Please leave with your caffeine choice. And also, if you have not listened to the Conor o' Gara show every Friday morning on the next round on YouTube, subscribe there. Subscribe to the OG Kickoff on all of our platforms. Follow us on Twitter ogara at goso hard. Thanks, guys.

B

Talk soon.