A

Welcome to the Scottish Watches Podcast. We have got a new person and we've got a returning person. So this is the episode where we like to bring a bit of fun, hilarity and seriousness to the podcast. Because when you buy and sell watches, you want to do something that ends up with something fantastic on the wrist or some pennies in the bank account to buy a new watch. Sometimes things can go awry. And we've had the folks from the Metropolitan Police Flying Squad on numerous times to give us the lowdown on how to protect yourself, be safe, but there are unscrupulous people at every turn. But the people on the show today are dead. Definitely not that they're here to help you, to guide you, to make sure that anything you do in the future when it comes to buying and selling timepieces is going to go absolutely fantastically well. And first of all, I'm going to bring it to our returning guest, who's been on numerous times before. That is Keith from ebay. How are you doing, sir?

B

I am very well, Ricky. So pleased to be back with you.

A

And do you want to introduce our new mystery guest?

B

It'd be my pleasure, yeah. So please meet Sarah Dixon from Inquirus.

A

Fantastic. Now you're a new person, Sarah. So what exactly is this thing? We kind of have an idea because we got a press release through and we couldn't schedule this record recording to be any closer to that information coming out to the public. But a lot of people have been emailing, asking us, what is this new thing, what's happening there? So who are you, what is it you do, and what is this organization that you're involved with?

C

Okay, so thank you very much for inviting me and for bringing me on to talk with you and Keith about this. I suppose so. We are Inquirus. So it's the largest lost and stolen free database in the world now. And it's created basically for the industry as a whole to track and trace stolen watches so that in the long term, we can devalue them so that you can never buy, sell, insure, or service a piece. And if we can do that, then hopefully it removes the incentive to steal. It protects the clients, but it also protects the staff. You can imagine the staff are sitting in the boutiques or driving the transports that are moving these watches around or working in the servicing centers. And the idea is that it becomes the industry standard for everybody to use together. So where we came from, though, and how we did it, we actually. I work for Richemont, which is a Luxury brands group. I don't know, you probably know of it, but it's. So we own 11 watch and jewelry brands, including Cartier, Van Cleef and Arcolls, iwc, et cetera. And we started it from actually requests from clients and we saw a raising, an increase in clients asking for us to track the stolen pieces. And that's how we started it off.

A

Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to jump in and stop you right there. I'm going to keep the juicy gossip, all the cool information for a little bit further down the line. And what I'm going to do just now is tell everybody to check the show notes. This is going to be an episode where you'll want to recap afterwards. If you're driving, if you're walking the dog, if you're at the gym or doing your household chores, this is one that you'll want to go back in time and make sure you absorb all this information because it is key. And then in a world where everything on the Internet seems to be. What's that term I used before, Kees in shitified, where everything is worse, everything is less, everything costs more and you get less value for money, this is something that is going to actually increase your enjoyment in life. So you want to stay tuned for that. So we'll get back to that in one second, but we'll have a quick recap with Keith. Actually, Keith, should we do that risk check thing? Because you always remind me to do that.

B

Well, that's why we're here, isn't it, to talk about watches.

A

Right, what you got? Then hit us with it.

B

Today I have my Breitling top time triumph. This might remind you of a sunny afternoon we had together in Geneva with my wife.

A

In case anyone's thinking anything untoward, you

B

were doing Breitling's job for them by kind of taking me through what you thought of their range. And you said that this was the absolute standout piece for you and yeah, for me, obviously. I love Swiss watches. I live in Switzerland, but I'm also British. So when I see a collaboration with a brand like Triumph, that's an absolutely huge hook for me. So, yeah, absolutely love this watch. It's a beautiful chronograph. And yeah, thanks for pointing me towards this one.

A

I didn't even get a referral fee for that one. I'll have to speak to George Cowan about it. Right, okay. And new mystery guest is no longer a mystery. What have you got on the wrist today?

C

I am actually Wearing a Panerai duo.

A

Panerai, wow. We've never had a Panerai wrist check from a guest. You're the first in nearly 800 episodes.

C

Well, this watch was actually a gift myself last year for actually completing a masters. And it was the color of my university and the color and so forth. And I just love the. I love the shape and the distinctiveness of a Panerai. It's. And the story behind it. The submariners created for the. For the Italian army or military or navy, actually submariners. And yeah, so I've always wanted one. So I treated myself well because you

A

are the first guest to talk about this. Give us a little bit of the history of Panerai because we've never covered this.

C

Oh my gosh, now you put me on the spot. So Panoramic was created originally for the submariners, so. And the deep divers. So with, you know, the ones that you wear, the big bell helmets, etc. Or at least that's always how I envisage it. And these were made for them. And then it, I suppose became a bit of a cult. It's one of the ones you have the paneristas who only purchase Panerais, which are very interesting group of people and yeah, they are now part of the Richemont group. But I still love the history behind them.

A

Fantastic. I remember Panerai when I was a kid because it was what Sly Stallone and Arnie got involved in back in the Planet Hollywood days. And then they just grew and grew. We met up with the folks at Watches and Wonders this year, had a great presentation from them and they showed some of the most incredible technology. And Panerai, as much as been part of Richemont, they're one of the brands you don't really hear about. They don't shout loudly enough. Whereas IWC, God, they had the F1 movie last year. Year. You've got JLC, you've got all these other people that are constantly in the mix in the media. But Panera, it's maybe once a year and we want to try and maybe write that wrong in future episodes of the show because there is a lot of history in there and they've done so many things. The crazy amount of power reserve on the latest releases from this year just blew myself and Dave away. So we'll put a pin in that one and we will come back to it. Keith, should I do my wrist check?

B

Yes, please.

A

Okay. Would it surprise you to say I'm wearing a watch that came from ebay

B

and Definitely wouldn't surprise me, Rick.

A

It wouldn't surprise you? Okay. I thought I'd surprise you. So I'm wearing a watch that I did not buy, but my wife bought this when she was my fiance. She was looking for a white ceramic watch for myself and she knew that I liked seven Friday. She knew that this one had been released a couple of years back, but she couldn't find it. She did a lot of googling. She's a sleuth. Females are fantastic at finding out information on the Internet should all be in the FBI. But she did a hunt, she did a search. She found it on ebay, but it wasn't within the uk. And this is something I want to let people know about. When you buy something off ebay, you can buy it internationally. You can get the best of the best from Japan. They look after stuff better than anybody in the world. But this one actually winged its way across from America. It was brand new, it was at a boutique. So she didn't tell me about it. It came across and she presented it to me just before my wedding. So instead of just wearing my Moser, which is my favorite watch of all time for many reasons, I double wristed, I wore the Moser and I wore this seven Friday. And it is a fantastic watch that I am so precious about because I don't want to damage it and because it's got a white leather strap that is going to crack, it's going to break, it's going to get dirty and I'm not going to be able to repair it or get another one. So I thought I would bring out the watch box for a special occasion and that is having you guys on the show today.

B

Thank you.

A

Right, Keith, let's do a quick recap on you to find out what's been happening because last time we had you on was maybe tail end of last year. And you're great at highlighting things that are going to happen without telling us what's going to happen. Now things have happened. But bring us up to speed of what has been happening in the world of ebay, perhaps not just within watches, but in luxury and collecting circles and how things have moved forward.

B

The collectible space is so dynamic at the moment. There's so many different trends going on. I think we were speaking about how the appetite out there for sports trading cards, for collectible card games just keeps on getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And to address that, we've actually launched our authenticity guarantee for trading card in the uk so it's the first marketplace in the UK that has this service. So I believe it's trading cards at £500 or above. Exactly what you know and love about our watches program and what we do in jewelry, handbags and sneakers, it's protecting buyers. So when buyers place the order for those items and for watches, it's watches above $1,500, 1,500 pounds in the US and UK or €1,500 in Germany. The seller, instead of getting the address of the buyer, they get the address of our authentication center. We check both the authenticity of the item and also the condition of the item versus what's promised on the listings. And providing that's all in order, that then gets forwarded onto the buyer. The seller gets paid once we've done those checks, and then the buyer ends up with an item that they're super happy with. And we do exactly the same thing on the return leg in the event that seller allows returns. So we protect the seller as well. The buyer gets the address of the authentication center once again, whether that's a trading card, a watch, a pair of sneakers, and we check that the item going back to the seller from the buyer is the same item in same condition as it was when it left the seller's warehouse initially. So, yeah, still the same proposition that we've had for sometimes we're just adding more and more to that.

A

There's an element there that I didn't think of before but now rings more true, and that is protecting people's private information. So, for instance, when I was selling my Daytona story I've told a million times before, I didn't really want people that potentially were going to buy the watch or whatever to find out where I stayed, because they may think I've got other watches in my collection and I'm a great target. So that's something I've never thought of before. And it's something good to highlight. And with trading cards, we did a very short story on the podcast a number of months ago because somebody get found out for printing trading cards. And the only reason they got found out because in America there was some kind of trading card organization where they would put their reputation behind things. And this was legitimate. That was legitimate. Turned out to be a big Ponzi scheme. And everybody behind it was just pumping their own stuff and saying it was great. And then somebody looked at one of these trading cards and found it had been printed on a printer that wasn't even invented at the point in time where they said it would originated from. So that was A huge story. So I'm glad that you guys are covering that base. It's not something I'm involved in. I like my vintage, vintage video games and whatnot and obviously watches and cars and motorcycles, but there are loads of people out there that do this kind of thing. And I remember way, way back, what was it, Beanie Babies that launched ebay pretty much back in the day. So good to see everything covered. But apart from the trading card side of things, the collectibles, anything else in the luxury sphere?

B

I know there's a lot of conversation about AI at the moment. The other thing that we've been busy building is, you know, there's a whole load of AI slop out there. But I think when AI is used for good purposes are actually useful. It can make a real difference to, like people's time, which I think is the thing we're almost short of. So we've been developing lots of cool features where you can just take two photos of an item of clothing and it will populate the rest of the ebay listing for you and then you can just get that live onto the website. Advertised for our 135 million buyers globally in no time at all. So that's available in the luxury space for clothing as well as lower priced items as well. So, you know, if you are looking at some T shirts, you might think I'm only going to get a couple of quid for these. Is it worth me doing the listing now with AI We've made that super fast and easy. So, yeah, if you're looking to refresh that wardrobe, Ricky, for the the upcoming warm season in Scotland, then this is a great opportunity to create some space in the closet.

A

You mean raincoats and umbrellas and whatnot? Yeah, we'll see what we can do with that one. We had our summer, it was last Tuesday. It's a long distant memory in the past. But no, that is fantastic news. And now that all the boffins, all the folks at ebay headquarters have stopped listening because we're about 15 minutes into the show. Tell us the truth then, what's been happening with this AP Swatch thing? How did that go?

B

So really, like, unbelievable. As soon as we saw that the collaboration was announced, we knew this is going to come onto ebay in a big way. Whenever there's something that has all of this hype. I think what's been interesting about this one is whilst there was a Blancpain Swatch that was kind of the sequel to Moonswatch, I don't know What I'm trying to think of the right film franchise to maybe express that, but it didn't ever speed to. So Moonswatch was huge. Generated so much interest in both Omega and Swatch at the time. We didn't see, frankly, that same uplift with the Blancpain 50Fathoms collaboration. When the Royal Pop AP vs Swatch collaboration went, the level of interest just was even greater than the first Moonswatch.

A

Really?

B

Yeah. The shape we've then seen since is it hasn't sustained to the same way as Moonswatch did. So I think qualitatively, when you look at, I think the fact that it's a pocket watch rather than a wristwatch, I think there's been a different reaction to it. I think people were already speculating and getting excited about. About it before they knew what the product product was. I think it's really interesting what what Swatch and AP have done in terms of doing something really different. But I think probably a lot of people were out there hoping for, again, purely speculating. This is my view, rather than the ebay view, expecting something that they could put easily on their wrist. And I think that's just driven a different shape of the hype cycle. So we saw, you know, it's not sustained to the same level, but the peak, I would say, of interest was a lot higher than Moonswatch. So every time something like this happens, the shape of it is a bit different and we just really love seeing how the trends develop, which colors kind of go wild. Someone bought a full set for £11,000 in the UK, so, like, there is huge demand for these, but I think they're reaching a different customer to maybe what, you know, maybe your audience is. I think it's probably more female customer because it's more like a bag charm. And I'm really looking forward to seeing these out in the wild. I think they're really fun. You know, it's not going to replace buying an AP by any stretch of the imagination. It's something very different and I think, you know, fair play to them for doing something bold and different.

A

Kind of agree. Any thoughts on that one, Sarah?

C

We actually had massive debates in the office about it and were incredibly disappointed when it wasn't a wristwatch, but very clever. We'd chosen our wristwatch, our color. I think all of that sort of stuff. I think you're probably right, it goes more for the. The female market and in the colors and that sort of stuff from my opinion. But I also. I wish it. I wish it wasn't A bag charm. I wish maybe it had a chain on it or something like that so that I could wear it as a pocket watch in a different way. I think that that's just my opinion, but they're fun, they're interesting, and there'll be something maybe as an entry level to make people interested in watches again, which might be an interesting way of doing it, too.

A

That's the point I think we've all been thinking about because Keith and myself on previous episodes of the show have said this kind of thing. It was Apple with the Apple watch that reinvigorated a generation that forgot watches existed. And then the Moonswatch did the same at a lower price point for a bit of fun. And this time around, it's put a shot in the arm of the industry a little bit. It's reminded people, yeah, watches are a thing because the last time watches were big, NFTs were big. Remember NFTs? They're like beanie Babies. Can't get rid of them. So it has been another great thing. Maybe the way they handled it wasn't the greatest, with the queues outside and the wrong demographic, the scalpers coming out in force to try and get a hold of them, and stopping the actual stores from opening on a couple of days at launch. But the other thing I spotted this time, because it wasn't a wristwatch, you had all these people that ran strap companies that decided, hey, We've got a 3D printer on the corner, we can mock up something. We've downloaded the video, we've used AI to measure the dimensions. And I saw even Ming and people like that were creating 3D models that you could print at home to convert it into almost like a Swatch watch. So it was good to see everybody getting behind it, all the creators, all the independent brands, and then ap, as I knew they would, they decided to drop their big launch just afterwards with their concept watches because they were just riding the coattails of that free hype. So that was really good. But that is something that has come and almost gone, as you say. I saw some news article saying that the price had dropped something like 93% on eBay from the peak where they were going for thousands and thousands, and now they've dropped down to almost the retail value, if not sometimes below that.

B

Sounds like very selective statistics. I think it was. It's not. Not at its peak. I think there's still serious demand out there for it. Oh, and I. I don't think this is over. I think to Sarah's point, I think we're going to see. I think they're teasing us. I think especially the fact that there isn't that accessory ecosystem out there. I don't know, it's fun to speculate about what they're going to do next. And like you say, it's got people who haven't spoken to me about watches in ages were intro like we're sharing things online about this and it's, it's generated that interest again. So I think it's brilliant for the industry, not just for these two brands. And I think even if they didn't know what they were going to do every step, they were going to do it when they launched it. And I suspect that they did have a plan and they do have a plan. I think there's lots more to come with this and I think we will see chains and whatever else that turn this into jewelry and allow us to do lots more with it. I don't know, who knows, But I just think Swatch are brilliant what they do. AP are brilliant at what they do. And I think we love collaborations because you put creative minds from two different businesses together and then they come up with something that just surprises you. I think your friends at Moser and Studio Underdog, when they got together brands at totally different ends of the price spectrum, you end up with something really cool. And I think this is the same thing again. So, yeah, I'm excited to see what comes next. Like, I think I know there's been some haters out there for this, but like, like I say, if you don't like it, you don't need to buy it.

A

It's always the case. Most recently we heard some haters talking about the new Formex release because they decided to do something that was out of their lane, slightly more expensive and the people that feel as if they've got an investment in it for some reason. It's like the local band. This is analogy I use local band that does well and they're not just turning up at the pub for £5 or now doing stadium tours and people go, who do they think they are? It's just a terrible mindset to have. We should all be coming together because this is a hobby. Hobbies are supposed to be fun and yeah, let's, let's move forward with that and having fun. Buying watches is always good as long as you don't get into trouble. Buying and selling is what I try and do a little bit of. We've actually got some things happening in the background that I don't Know if at the point in time this episode drops will have happened yet. Depends. But you had been speaking to me when we caught up in Geneva at Watches and Wonders. We always do this. We never meet up in Scotland. What we did, we met up in Scotland once. We've never met up in the UK since. I believe it's been Geneva. It's been in different countries across the world. But the latest chance we got to sit down together to have lunch, well within PAL Expo at someone else's cost, not our own, because, well, that'd be quite expensive, obviously, and I'm Scottish and I'm tight with money. You were telling me how the live system has been going and you've got this thing called Watch Weddings.

B

Yeah, absolutely. So ebay live, which is very simple. It's live shopping on the ebay app on your phone or on the ebay website on your computer. Simple as that. Go, go onto ebay. You'll find it immediately. Watches is just one of the runaway successes through that channel. And so interestingly, talking about AP, last week, the record not just for ebay Live, but the record for ebay Germany was a Royal Oak Michael Schumacher from 2016 sold for €70,000 that just arrived in our authentication center. It's left now, passed all the checks. But, yeah, amazing that people are coming into ebay live, engaging that way. And the trust that we've built up that people are willing to buy and sell watches at that price. And then when I talk to my US colleagues, there was a Richard Mille $213,000 watch that sold via ebay live. And just, you know, we've had $1.8 million on a single ebay live show just through Watches, the new record. So it just keeps on getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I say even it's just a great way of seeing watches, right? People are going on there to buy, but I think they're also just turning up for entertainment. It's, you know, Ricky, we might even have competition for yourself now in that there's just amazing watch content because on a Wednesday evening, tune in on eBay UK, or we have Thursdays Jewelry and Watches Thursdays in Germany where we just have regular programming. So, you know, you can go in, check out what's going on and talk to the community. There's a great chat feature. You can talk to the seller who's showing the watches and just, just engage with other watch enthusiasts. And then obviously the ebay angle is we hope that we persuade you to park some cash and buy watch Get

A

Caught up in the hype, as they say. Well, I may be in competition with myself because I've been invited along to co host a Wednesday watch extravaganza. We are going to be traveling down to England somewhere, not going to say exactly where, to spend an evening with a watch seller. And we're going to do a bit of a collaboration. So we're going to dip our toes in the water, see how that goes and make sure that we don't just own the podcasting sphere, but also the ebay lives here. That is the next demographic we're going to take charge of. But let's move across and find out more about why we're here today to talk about the benefits that people are now getting. An additional benefit authenticity guarantee was a huge thing that we have hyped up we've talked about. I took control of myself a couple of years ago, story I've told any new listeners. I will quickly recap. I had a good watch collection. I decided to sell said good watch collection to buy a house and I had to put my white gold Daytona up for grabs. Having spoken with Keith numerous times, I thought, you know what, let's put my money where my mouth is. Or let's put someone else's money where their mouth is and utilize ebay for a watch that is not insignificantly priced. It was around about 30,000 pounds UK at the time and I didn't tell anybody ahead of time what I was up to because I wanted to go through the system without a chaperone to see exactly what it'd be like from a public member's point of view to see how it would all go. I advertised it, took good photographs, didn't hide anything, didn't Photoshop out any scuffs or scratches. There weren't that many to begin with and I went through the system, listed it, somebody bought it, I got the ebay address to send it to. Didn't have that person's personal information, they didn't have my personal information. Sent it off bits, scared, didn't hear much about it. Then money appeared in my account a few days later and that was it. Nothing further. I thought something had gone wrong because it went so smoothly in my head. It was like getting a mortgage for a house. That's a huge thing. Surely they must phone you a thousand times to double check stuff. No, it was just plain sailing. The watch went out, the money came in, that was it. Game over. Nothing else happened in the future. And it's because it's so easy that I Think it scares people, that they may feel as if, well, how can it go so simply? It is a big purchase, it is a big sale. There was not a complication at all, no pun intended, being a watch podcast. And I've heard from numerous people selling things at 500 bucks, 5,000 up the way. And it doesn't have to just be within watches. We've talked about different collectibles, we've talked about bags, we've talked about vintage this, that and the other. Somebody recently sold a vintage video game and I'm not allowed to see who it was, but it received a pretty penny. Because everyone is now accepting the fact that yeah, 20 plus years ago eBay was seen as a bit of a maverick, but now it is sustained. It's been around so long, it's the og, it's one of the originals like Amazon and you can put your trust behind it. So yeah, that is my story with that. But Keith, maybe you want to introduce this new system and then let the expert tell us all about it.

B

Absolutely. So like you say, since we launched the authenticity guarantee, we've just been working to like build up additional trust features ever since we launched and we've done the physical authentication where we check the watch is genuine, we've checked the item condition, but collectors today also want greater certainty around the watch's background and legitimacy. And Sarah will say more about Enquirus, but when we heard from Sarah around like the launch of Inquirers, we were like, we've got to integrate that into the authenticity guarantee program. So very excited to share that. That's exactly what we did around about a month ago. And I will let Sarah take over from here.

C

Thank you, Keith. No, we have been talking for quite a long time actually and it took a long time to work out how we would do it and so forth. And I think one of the things we wanted very much to do was make sure that it is as simple as possible and it becomes part of people's everyday life. Perhaps whether you're buying personally on the pre owned market or if it's for example Kees team, which we now have an interface in and it's integrated within their system so they don't need to go from one system to another. And that was very important that this becomes, as the idea is, to become the industry standard so you don't think twice about it when you're buying or selling or insuring or servicing on the pre owned market, that you check first to make sure this is not a stolen piece or a Stolen watch in this case. So, yes, we launched it in 2023. Building it up. We work with multiple police forces to try and make this work. We have checks along the way and it's simple for anybod to use and it's free for everybody to use. That was very important, that if it's not free, then it doesn't encourage everybody to actually use the system and you can register your pieces. So point one is when you buy something or if you have a collection, you can register it. Ricky. But. And we also actually have an ocr, so an AI Serial Number Recognition. Because the point is to put your serial number into the system somewhere. If you do have a large collection, I'm sure you, Keith, you have it all listed with in an Excel spreadsheet or something like that. You don't. No, but the serial number is very important, so you need to.

B

Mine's all in inquirers. Sarah. It is genuinely well done, Keith.

A

You've played this game before.

B

Cost me a panic.

C

Yeah. And the idea is, so you can take. You take a picture of the back of it or wherever the serial number is, and we'll explain because each watch is different and how you read that serial number is also different, depending on the brand. And then so you can take a picture, it will read the serial number for you on the majority of the cases. And then we do ask for some other form of serial number recognition. So if you've got an invoice or a warranty card and you then can create your collection and your digital vault, so you have everything there and that's all encrypted, anonymized, everything for you. When you were talking about personal information and how important that is, is very important for us as well. So it's all segregated in there. And then of course, if you do have the unfortunate event that something is lost or stolen, then with a police report, you can quickly report that and you can do it. Therefore, if it's already on the system, you can do it from wherever you are in the world and you have your serial number and you can add that into the police report, which is also very important. So we know that it's not your car or your cattle sofa that got stolen, that it is actually that watch. So we check everything at each point to make sure the data is as accurate as possible in all cases. And then the last step that you can do is of course, you can search and you can search as an individual and you'll find out if it's a yes or no, if it is listed on the system or it's not currently listed as stolen on the system. But you can do it as a business. Like ebay now has it as an interface. We have over 300 pre owned marketeers with accounts on the system that use it as well. But we have police forces in over 30 countries, we have insurance companies, we have manufacturers, we have a wide range of different stakeholders using it now, which is wonderful to see. Wow.

A

Okay, well, you answered all the questions. I had a list in my head and I'm like, oh, I don't have to ask that any longer. Don't have to ask. You mentioned multiple countries, obviously you've got a very British accent and we're based in the UK as much as we're listening to across the world, so that's good. Tick Mark. The fact that you've mentioned the police forces are involved, that's huge because they don't get involved with things unless they see legs. And I will say, and I'll not name names, but over the past maybe seven years that we've been running this podcast, there have been many people popping up saying, hey, we've got this database, it's on the blockchain, you can check this, you can check that. Pretty much all of them have fallen by the wayside. And the other thing to add in here in the back of my head is this is from Richemont, but you're open to everybody. If you've got a Rolex serial number, Tudor serial number Omega, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be from one of your maisons, which is fantastic because I can't think of any of the other conglomerates that run all the different luxury brands who would do this and then open it up to everybody else. So this is generally for everybody. And then being Scottish, the best part you said was it's free. I love free. What was it? The things behind the scenes, how many moving parts were there involved to get this up and running? How long did this take to put together? You said it launched 20, 23, but how long was the process beforehand?

C

It was about two years beforehand. So we spent a year researching, looking into it, trying to understand what there was out there. I mean, the watch industry is a very old industry. This has been around and theft is not a new thing, let's be honest. And we won't solve it overnight. So it was a year of trying to work out if police forces, what was happening within the police force, the insurance industry, everywhere. And we worked out everybody was actually trying to do something. Everybody. You know, all the brands had their lists, the police forces had their lists. Just they were all siloed and they were all separate and nobody had visibility on each other's. There was always a worry about personal information, about sharing sensitive information. So what we did was we made a proposal to use. Well, if I say simple technology, my tech team will get angry at me because nothing is, you know, it's not as simple as that, but it's not a blockchain. Easy to use. Absolutely. So we made a proposal to our senior executives and our leadership team and they said, okay, we'll go build it. And we built a very. The basics of the basics, the mvp. And we took that to the market. And I think Heath was one of the first people we might have shown as well and said, what do you think? And then. Yes. And of course we got. We were lucky within houchement to test it on our brands and that sort of stuff as well and open up some doors there. And it's. Yeah. And then we. We launched it at Watches and wonders in March 2023. So that was a big thing and it was very well received, actually, as something that was needed. So the technology is a database. That's what it is. It's got the highest level of security on it as far as we can. You can imagine being in Hichemont, we have to jump through a lot of hoops to make sure we're very tight. And in terms of I have teams that. I have a team that actually checks everything on the system. We try and use AI and where possible. I mean, Heath made a really good point. There are so many things that can make lives easier nowadays with AI and more accurate as well. I mean, our serial number recognition thing, picture recognition is very helpful in making sure everybody's accurate because human error is a problem. And if you put in your serial number incorrectly at the very beginning, we're never going to be able to help you find it. Because if a police officer finds it on the street or on a thief or whatever, he will enter the one that's in front of him. And if you haven't put it in correctly the first time around, then we won't find it. So that's why we try to make it as accurate but as transparent as possible as well. And opening it up to everyone, talking

A

about AI and the benefits and the negatives, people they see in the mainstream media, news reports of people losing jobs, industries closing down, that kind of happened with various things along the way. But we change, we move forward. We don't do as many things in print as we do online, etc. Etc. And we've been using AI behind the scenes for purposes for about four years now, because sometimes people don't have professional microphones, but by the time we run audio through AI, it removes out the background noises, the cars, the barking dogs, the air conditioning systems. It has its place. And when it comes to things like this, I'll give you a great example. So in my household, my wife loves the gym. She can't get enough of it. I have to tell her to stay at home sometimes. And she's got all these apps, she's got the gym app for exercise programs, she keeps a note of things, but she's also got a tracker where when she eats different types of foods, she can take a photograph of it and AI will tell her what it is and how many calories it is. That is magic, absolute magic. So if it can do that, and it does a very good job of it, if you can look at a slice of cake and deduce how many calories are in that, picking out a serial number from an image, that sounds quite easy. So I've got no problems with that whatsoever. And then the fact is, because it's Richemont that is behind this, this will not evaporate. People don't like putting their details into something when they think it's going to be sold off in a couple of years or closed down. And Google are the worst for it. They create something, everyone gets on board, they love it and then they just kill it. They just kill it off. And at the end of the year, there's a website that actually shows you how many products Google have brought to market and then ended without telling anybody what to do. You guys have been in business for hundreds of years. You don't put your name behind something unless it's going to work out. So I've got complete faith in exactly what you're doing here. And the way it sounds to me being a car guy is this is an HPI check, this is a car vertical for a watch. But we don't have to pay 30 quid for it.

C

Well, I, I always use the analogy and. Well, he's heard it before. I said you wouldn't go and buy a second hand car without checking to make sure it wasn't stolen first, would you? And why do we do that with second hand watches when they probably in most cases cost more than your secondhand car? So this really needs to become an industry standard that you just it becomes second nature within your. Especially if you're. If you're collecting or you like vintage watches, or whichever one it is, we need to tell everybody to start using it now. One thing you said about your wife's thing, it's actually our OCRs work very well for the police forces because they don't have any knowledge of how to read a serial number or where to read it. So that's been quite helpful. I mean, I'm wearing, as you saw, a Panerai. Panerai is multiple numbers on the back of the watch that makes up the serial number. A Cartier is very similar. It has two sets of numbers and you have to flip them the opposite way around to put the serial number in the correct order. So small things like that. And that's how AI can help us.

A

I love that idea. I'll tell you why I love that idea. The second luxury watch that I bought, funnily enough, Keith, it was off eBay in 2017. It was a Rolex GMT Master II. I bought this and took it because there wasn't all these checks and balances in place back then. I took it to a local watch guy, legitimate company, the service repair this type of watch, that type of watch, and I got a call back to say, we have a problem with your watch. We've taken the bracelet off your Rolex and there is no serial number on it. And my heart sunk. I was about three weeks into the hobby and I thought, that's it, I've been done. And then I thought to myself, hold on a second, why did you take the bracelet off the watch? To look on the watch, head for the serial number. It's actually down at the six o' clock position on the rehot. Because it's a newer model, the older Rolexes, you had to take the bracelet off. So when I got in touch with the place and said, do you actually know what the hell you're doing? They admitted, oops a daisy, they made a mistake. So the fact that your application shows you where to look on the watch, that is fabulous. That will take all that problems out and me having a heart attack almost when I bought that watch. So that is great news. Keith, what's the reception been like from the ebay end on all this?

B

It was one of those, as Sarah said, they shared it. They launched it at Watches and wonders in 2023 and we were, myself and the rest of the team there. So we were waiting, like, how much is this going to cost us?

A

I knew that would be your first

B

question we were sitting there and obviously we're bought into it. It was like this is the right thing to do. Like but you know, interested to see what the commercial pitch and when you hear it's free and we're doing this, I think what really came through was protecting the Richemont staff at the various different brands and boutiques and their customers and how important that was to them and that being a really motivating force, you know, that just really resonated with us. Like ultimately whether it's ebay people or the buyers or sellers on the platform, that's why we do what we do. And like I say it's, it's one of those, the motivations I hadn't thought of. Obviously there's also the commercial benefit of making people feel the, the end customer feel safer around wearing their item because hopefully this will become a huge deterrent for, for crime because as we've seen, as Sarah said earlier, the harder you make it to transact and stolen items the criminals will hopefully move away from watches as something that they, that they try and profit from. So yeah, as you would expect, you know, we're not charging anything on top for this service. So it's just additional benefit with no additional cost. There's no change to the timings that things take to go through the authenticity guarantee program. So, so it's kind of a no brainer and everyone's happy about it apart from probably maybe some bad actors who will be deterred from trying to pass things through now.

A

What a shame for them. No, it all sounds good. And like with previous systems you've incorporated, there is no negative because there's no cost, there's no add on and you are not the product when it comes to this kind of thing because you've proven it, you've borne it out with previous things that you've incorporated into the ebay system. So to actually have somebody like Richemont, biggest in the world to do this kind of thing, offer it to everybody, give it free of charge and then put their name behind it and say we're going to stick at this, that is fantastic. Making product too hot to handle on the secondary market if indeed they are a little bit dodgy. So are there any stories? I know it's early days, this has only been out for maybe a month, linked to ebay, but have you caught anything? Is there any big headlines that we can talk about already from our side?

C

I have ones not linked to ebay.

A

Okay.

C

We had a grandfather, we had a watch that came into a servicing center. And we were able to get it back to the grandfather. He was a grandfather by this stage. It was two years after it'd been stolen. And actually he was so excited because he could pass it on to his grandson. And I think that. Actually I thought about it when we all talked about the watches we'd chosen at the beginning. They're very sentimental pieces, watches. Very often, I mean, I choose mine because of what they looked like and time in my life that I bought them or something like that. And I've been given some for special occasions and handed down some. And I think that's why very often it's that piece that we want back. And I think that one really, really explains that perfectly. When he said to the person, and they called me up and said, sarah, he's. Yeah, he's so excited because he. Now he can give it to his grandson, which was what he wanted to do, which was so lovely. We had another one recently, actually, that came into another servicing center. I just heard the rate. But the interesting one was that was the speed. And that for me, I think we need to make sure that we had one came into a servicing. It had been stolen two days before and put on the inquiries, and then two days later arrived in a servicing center. Then quickly. And then, of course, police were alerted and so forth. And in doing that, actually they were able to find the thieves, but also the client who was not. I mean, he bought it unwittingly. This is the problem he hadn't realized. And on the secondhand market, he bought it and he got his money back for it as well. So it's about making sure that we close these circles down. I think it is. Yeah, we have. We work with police forces that send us very long lists that we can mass upload into the system of pieces. And with that, we actually interconnect what you asked about how we got here. And in the research, we realized that one of the other issues was the linking between the police forces. So because these pieces go across borders, as you probably know, I mean, it's a very simple thing to put in your pocket and move from one jurisdiction to another. And then police records don't follow that. So what we've done in a few cases, we had one stolen in Italy, bought in Poland, then went back to Belgium from Belgium with servicing center in France. France then, you know, and so with. And then we are working with interval and Europol now as well. So we are recommended tools for Europol and working with Interpol now on the next step with them. So we were able to get the police forces to talk to each other and work out what was happening. I do have to say, after that, we let the police do their business. You know, that's their thing to do criminal investigation and we don't get involved after that. It's about the community of setting up the links of, you know, Keith's team sometimes calls and says, we've got this strange thing. What do we do? It's about people talking to each other and sharing the information now and learning from each other and making things better. That's the idea.

B

So, yeah, and I think that's another thing Inquirers have done as well as build the technology. They brought us together with Interpol, with detectives from the Met Police who've appeared with yourself, Ricky. They also, because our authentication center is outside of Berlin, they introduced us to the equivalent of the flying squad for Germany as well. And it just means that the network that we have between like a technology partner, like Inquirus, the backing that they have from the wider organization, that they're part of a marketplace like ourselves. And I know we're not the only ones who are kind of, you know, this is something we want to team up with with the other places that do similar job to what ebay does and the police forces and the insurers and we'll just make it much more difficult for criminals to move stolen goods around. And yeah, I have to thank the inquiries team for really like building those connections and just driving this with their mission. It's been really inspiring to watch.

C

Thank you. It's a team effort, it really is. So thank you.

A

Well, we've come to the end of our time and this has flown by so quickly, not just because there's multiple guests, but because there's somebody that's been here before, recurring guest, a friend. And there's a new friend that we've introduced to the audience and for all the right reasons. This is going to benefit everybody, anybody that loves watches. This is good news. There is no downside to it. There's no cost to this and it's not going to disappear. And I'm just blown away. We have got a long standing relationship with Richemont. We've been working with them behind the scenes covering watches since the very, very beginning. One of the first things I did was to get invited almost Adrian, from Bark and Jack to JLC's Atelier back in 2019, the first year of the Watch podcast, just before the pandemic. And ever since we've done things with iwc, we've done things with more Blanc right the way through with a mini series with Minerva that finished just a month or two ago there. So we've always been working hand in hand, as we do with lots of different people. But the point that really catches me here is you're doing this for the benefit of the collector, the person that doesn't want to lose that heirloom, that thing that's been handed down to them, or the thing that they're going to hand down to somebody else. And you're doing it for other brands. You wouldn't see Ford helping Vauxhall out, you wouldn't see this in any other industry. You wouldn't see Hugo Boss helping out Ralph Lauren. So this has to be commended. That is absolutely, absolutely fantastic. And I can't wait to actually jump online and try and find all my invoices so I can put all my serial numbers into this system. So if people want to find out more about this, Keith, how should they interface with it? What is the way this is done through yourself and through, obviously, the main system?

B

Yeah, I'd say I'm sure that Sarah and Mziel will add into the show Notes the inquiries website. And it's so simple, I would say just go in, do it now, don't wait until the bad happens. Get all your watches registered in there. That just means it's peace of mind. And as Sarah said, if something happens when you're on holiday or whatever else, you could act immediately. When it comes to ebay, you don't need to do anything different to benefit from inquirers. Just buy a watch via our Authenticity Group Guarantee program, which you find with that simple blue badge. We will be checking any watch via that program on eBay, UK, eBay, US eBay, Germany, all of those watches will get the inquiries check as part of the standard process. So you don't need to do anything different as an ebay buyer through that process.

A

And Sarah, if people want to jump onto the website you're talking about, what is the web address and what is the process that's involved?

C

So it's. The website is inquireus.com so inquireus.com and it's a very simple process. You just need to create your own account, you need an email address and that becomes your username and go from there, add your pieces, add your, as Keith said, watches. We do have some jewelry brands on there and are building on that for the future. So go and make sure you remember. And if you're buying on the pre owned market. Go and check first as well.

A

Fantastic. Well, I think we've covered everything and I'm going to go and do this right now actually. As soon as we finish this recording, I'm going to put my two feet first and see what happens because I've got a lot of watches that I wouldn't like to lose and if they do go walkies and I'm careful, I am pretty careful about things, don't keep anything. The value in the house, got a safety deposit box. But when I do wear them out and about, I'm always a little bit fearful. And this is just another layer, another comfort blanket for when I am here, there and everywhere across the globe. So I want to thank new guest Sarah to the show and I want to thank Keith for coming on. Any closing thoughts you guys want to mention before we let the listeners on their way?

C

I just like to say in the comment that you just said, please don't be scared to wear your watches. Please wear them, please enjoy them. And the point of this site is that of Inquirers is to help carry on that love of watchers. It is not to scare people that it's super dangerous out there or anything like that. It's to provide a service in case that unfortunate act happens.

A

This has been awesome. I didn't know how this would go. I have specifically kept away from too much information. When the press release came through and we did briefly mention it, I let Dave deal with it. So this would be fresh information for myself and I could obviously interact and ask the questions. You can check ourselves out, you know where to check these two people out and what they're up to. But we are out twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays. Follow us ottottishwatches on Instagram. We've got our YouTube channel, website, all that good stuff and yeah, I think that is really about it. I'm a busy boy. I've got lots to do today to catch up with my serial numbers and hopefully once you've listened to this, you will be doing the same. So thank you, Sarah. Thank you Kees and we will catch you again soon.

B

Thanks very much.

C

Thank you very much. Thank you. Take care.

B

Out.