A

Welcome to the Scottish Watches Podcast. This is going to be the extreme edition. Nothing to do with football because we're recording this before we know any results to do with anything at all. But we do know that there is some fantastic releases to talk about in the summer. Lots of cool colours, lots of interesting materials and we've got Dave Sharp with us. How's Dave?

B

He's not interesting, but yes, Dave's good. Actually. Dave's not having to fight jet lag as hard as he thought he would, considering he's not long off of a plane from Chicago. But you are right, it's an extreme episode because Zenith have got not one but two extreme watches out and frankly they're both amongst the best releases that this brand has done in quite a while, I have to say.

A

Yep, it's been a couple of years since. Well, it's been about three years since we got to go along to see the Extreme E with Zenith. They were supporting this crazy off road, remote control buggy type thing. There's a lot of electrification, especially with Dave with his car, but it's moving more and more into motorsport. I saw recently that Formula E is going quicker than F1 these days, which is kind of surprising and insane at the same time. But Zenith have upping their game. They have been moving things forward. We've been following their story for many, many years. They have done things like the Defy 21, I believe Dave owns or owned one in the past and then they just gave an injection of anabolic steroids. They upped their game. They made it more bulbous, more angular. It was just a different beastie with the same heritage and DNA within and they've extended that and they've got some really good colours out.

B

Now there's two Zenith Defy extremes. They're quite different from each other, I have to say. There is one that's in a Lapis lazuli and that's called a lapis lazuli. And then there's the ultraviolet, which definitely is more along the lines of what folk may have seen before in regards to these watches. So it has to be said that I believe this is the only mainstream production mechanical chronograph in the world that splits the time into 1/100 of a second splits. I'm sure there are some small volume watchmakers doing something similar, but this is throughout a mass manufactured watch. Now they've both got the same movement inside them. I think they're fundamentally the same size, which is 45 millimeters by 15.4 millimeters in the case it is quite big, but with the whole kind of extreme vibe. It sits quite well and it's effectively lug less. So it doesn't wear quite as large as you might expect. 200 meters of water resistance, which you would kind of expect in a watch that calls itself extreme. Let's look at them separately. So the Lapis Lazuli ii.

A

Can I just stop you a second there, Dave, because I'll let you speak the first time because sometimes I believe you know what you're talking about. This time around I don't think you do.

B

So let's try this Lapis Lazuli.

A

That's how you say it.

B

Nope, I definitely am going to stick with Lapis Lazuli because it's Z u L I oo li I would say anyway, the Internet, if you believe everything on the Internet, I wouldn't go with it.

A

Anyway, tell us about the watch anyway.

B

Don't care. It's stone and it's blue. That's all you really ultimately need to know. The previous model was quite different. That one was a steel and yellow gold case. Now it's altogether a bit more technical feeling and There are only 25 pieces of this one going to be issued worldwide. The case to be more technical is a matte forged carbon fiber and titanium number. Much darker. Much more I think in the vibe of this and I like the fact that that blue does kind of clash against that dark carbon. It looks a little bit better. I went and found a picture of the older one with the gold and not my vibe. I have to say. The chronograph counters, they've got those tiny little bits of stone, but of course you've got those inclusions in them of pyrite. Every bit of stone is different and you do get that kind of golden color from those inclusions which gives you those unique patterns. You do though still have yellow gold plated hands and hour markers to give a bit of contrast against it. Brings a bit of warmth to it as well. Not a bad looking watch. The other one is the ultraviolet and with this one you've got that very vibrant purple color scheme that you would expect. Now they have had an older kind of more rounded defy 21 and this is now using that color palette in this much sharper angled Defy extreme design. The case in this one is made of matte micro blasted titanium. So it's got that very kind of dark gray. It's definitely not black, but very dark gray kind of coloration from that micro blasting the dials on this one are layered. They're purple tinted sapphire crystal elements. And of course you've got pieces of the movement also in that purple colorway. Both use the same movement as we said, which is the El Primero 9004 caliber. They have got that one 100th of a second timing. And it doesn't drain the power of the standard timekeeping because you've got a dual escapement system in there. You've got the high frequency 5 Hz for the movement that manages your normal timekeeping, 50 hours of power reserve. But the chronograph has its own escapement and is an extremely high frequency. It runs at 50Hz which is 360,000 VPH. And it only runs of course when the chronograph is engaged. When running, that chrono hand will go round the dial once every second. So it does move fairly quick. Both the models have got an identical display layout. You've got the 30 minute counter at 3 o', clock, the 60 second counter at 6 o' clock and the small seconds at 9 o'. Clock. You've also got a linear chronograph power reserve indicator up at 12 o'. Clock. That chronograph mechanism though, if you're running it, it will deplete its power in 50 minutes of continuous running. Which does seem to me something that you'd be trying to get it to 60 minutes. Maybe they did try and didn't get there. But you have to wind up that power reserve by hand. It does of course feature their integrated quick swap interchangeable strap. The stone one with the lapis comes paired with a black rubber strap. And there is an additional high performance black Velcro strap on there. It retails in US at US$37,100. The non limited edition ultraviolet in my opinion the better looking of the two that comes with a full three kit option. It comes on a violet rubber strap along with a matching micro blasted titanium bracelet and a black Velcro strap. And it's priced at an altogether more reasonable US$20,100. Now I it you've got the carbon case and titanium. Don't think there's going to be a huge difference in the price to a bead blasted titanium case. The stone, okay, maybe a little bit of premium, but there's a fairly big price delta between these two. I think they're both good looking watches but frankly in terms of value, look, aesthetics, the fact you get a bracelet with it. The ultraviolet one is the one for me. Probably seeing Ricky nodding in the background, says he's thinking the same thing, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you think, Ricky?

A

Love this one. And it's a lineup that I do like and it goes back to the good old days of Zenith maybe three, four, five years ago when Julian Turner was at the helm. Then he moved on to Tag for about six months and then he moved on to Hublot, where he still is to this day. And we caught up with him at numerous events. He was in Glasgow. We, as I mentioned, we went to the Formula E and we actually had an interview with a little bit of Julian in one episode. And then we actually had Carl Cox, DJ extraordinaire. And not just a dj, this guy is into all kinds of going fast. He's got a motorcycle team, he's involved in the TT over in the Elaman. He has got crazy quarter mile weapons that do insane speeds and quarter mile times plus tons of other stuff and he is constantly on the go. I believe he's in his 60s now. Yeah, 60s and he ain't aged a day in the past 25, 30 years. It's just incredible what this guy does. And we actually went across and we saw him doing a small DJ gig on a boat three years ago, back when things were really good, back when there were more events to go and see, there were more launches and things of that ilk. But the whole point of being there was it was the launch of the previous edition of this watch and it was in a green colorway to match in with the team and that was phenomenal. This one in the purple, it's almost got, as it says in the name, an ultraviolet tinge. So it is like when you see a Dyna rod van going past, that's a very UK reference, but a fluorescent color, like one of those highlighters that you get in school. It's this kind of effect. And the module technology that's in there, well, the movement technology is not even a module, it's a movement. That's something that we've spoken about in the past. David, I mentioned, had one, don't know if he still got it. We did a video maybe five, six years ago with a listener to the show, good friend Gordy and his watch. And they've not really talked about these much in the last few years. They've moved into maybe their throwbacks to the 70s. They've changed the defy range. They brought in these blue watches last year to celebrate this and the other. There was pilot stuff going on and then they had their master lineup, which we didn't really gel with. We saw them at watches and wonders. We went back for a second helping this year, still didn't have our socks blown off this time around. But this, this is where it's at. This is when I think of Zenith, this is where my mind goes to. They were the guys that pushed the El Primero. They were the guys that were behind the dial on the Daytona up until recently. And I'm hoping that this is a change back in direction to being cutting edge, pushing things out there. Recently it's been iwc, what they've done, their titanium technologies, the watch they released this year to do a space flight. This is Zenith coming back into that direction. And I hope they continue because this is a great watch price, little bit expensive, but then again, everything these days is a little bit expensive.

B

If you want to see pictures of these watches and you can tell us which one you like, check out the show notes because that's where you'll see pictures and, well, any factually correct information that we've managed to get wrong. Also, please do send us an email. Tell us how you pronounce lapis lazuli because I see it that way and I'm going to continue saying it that way. I don't trust the Internet. But anyway, Ricky, what else has been going on? Any buzz about the auction scene?

A

Indeed. I'm going to pull out my wee man and show you him because I'm hoping maybe this little thing that I'm holding my hand here and anyone that's listening on audio, it's not as bad as you think. Check the show notes. Watch usual video at the weekend. This is a little astronaut watch holder and there's an astronaut that is all abuzz about selling some watches through the auction houses. And that is of course, the guy that went to the moon. Some people say, some people say he didn't. Some people say he's the greatest actor in the world and he will punch you square in the face. Say that to him.

B

I was going to say, yeah, he's the kind of guy that could probably be on the show because, well, yeah, he punches first and asks questions later, but anyway, yes, Buzz Aldrin has got, well, a considerable number of his personal watches coming to auction. That auction being Sotheby's in New York and it's their latest space exploration auction. 24 watches and all, all have been owned by, well, Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon. It's a fairly large portion of his overall watch collection. They are primarily Omegas. Probably comes as no Surprise. But there are a few other watches from other brands thrown in. I don't think it will come as any surprise because well, if you know, you know. But he's a flight flown Speedmaster. Well that isn't in there for a couple of reasons. One is because well it's still lost. It was stolen when it was on its way to the Smithsonian after it had been on the Moon in 1969. And the other bit is, well technically it still belongs to the US government so I don't think they would take too kindly to appearing in an official auction. In terms of the Omegas that are there. These are all ones that are meaningful to Aldrin in terms of his decades of collection. But there's also some scuba diving or diving watches in there because he, he is a very experienced scuba diver and it was his other big love in life along with a big box of souvenir watches. A little bit more about what that is. The bidding sessions begin July 15th in New York. Couple of examples of things, we're not going to go through them all. You can check the show notes out for a more in depth list of what is available. Well, there's a GLC Shark deep sea chronograph that is sitting currently. I think it's something eight and a half thousand US Not a huge amount of money. It's well below the estimate for a chronograph of that vintage. There's also of course an Omega SpeedMaster that being a 3590.50.00 from the 1990s that's got the calibre 861 in it with a tritium dial. The estimates are only putting a little bit above the market rate for that reference and it's currently around 8,000. An interesting one though is a Speedmaster X33 Generation 2 with a blank case back which means it was typically issued for either the military or NASA so that they could get squadron patches or other engravings on it. There's an Omega Constellation Manhattan Day date. And the more interesting bit of all of this is there's a box of commemorative watches. There's a two tone watch that was presented to Buzz commemorating his involvement in the Buzz Aldrin Elementary School. There's a Toy Story 3 watch. There's a Rodeo Drive and art and performance commemorative watch. There's a Korean War watch. There's a Boeing watch with the International Space Station in the dial. I think they are some of the cooler ones. Probably not going to go for huge money. They will get a premium for sure because, well, Buzz Aldrin but yeah, cool to watch watches actually end up selling for. Check the show notes out to see a bit more in terms of what's there because some of the prices at the moment are not insane, so maybe it's on the pickup list.

A

Well stay tuned and we will report back exactly how well these have done in auction because it's something pretty cool. You know, I think some of these watches will go for a little bit more than maybe Dave thinks because having any kind of tenuous link whatsoever to space travel, especially in this day and age where people are look at Katy Perry, the greatest astronaut ever. There's all this hype, there's all this stuff going on, especially with SpaceX and different countries getting in in the act. So I think this is the way forward after half a century of not being on the moon. But anyway, another thing to do is to tell you to Watch us on YouTube. If you're listening to the audio podcast, you're missing half the story. At the weekend, usually a Saturday around about 9.10am UK time is when the videos drop and it is the video version of this podcast you get to see in real time the images, the pictures, the video clips. And sometimes there are jokes that work better in a visual medium than they do in the audio podcast. So it's good to ch out both if you wish and obviously subscribe. Like Share Comment Is it time to talk about some summer treats?

B

Fun and Frolics is where we're going next. And who are we talking about? Well, the company Norkane, who have been putting out some fun watches. So what is this one we're going to talk about? This is their, well, New Freedom GMT Enjoy Life Holiday Limited Edition. That's a mouthful.

A

Anything to do with Mel Gibson?

B

No. Well, not so well. Does he enjoy life? Not sure.

A

Does he enjoy freedom?

B

Does he enjoy freedom? Well, going by quite a lot of the movies he's done, I think he does enjoy freedom. Third chapter in the Enjoy Life collection. The first one was about ice cream. The second one was about, well, ice cream desserts and sprinkles. But this is the first one that's not specifically about ice cream or desserts or the things that you have after your main course, if you finish everything and your parents think you've been a good little boy. What this one is about is holiday season and it's of course travel themed. Being a GMT watch, you've got a colorful world map on the dial there and in it you've Got lots of little hidden kind of secret Squirrel things. You've got a beach themed date wheel. Every seventh day it gives you a little surprise. The previous one, well, you had the ice cream chronograph, you had the sprinkles edition. This one is based on their already in the range Freedom GMT model. And it's got everything on the dial that celebrates things like morning coffees, happy hour cocktails, to famous landmarks scattered all around the world and are shown on that colorful world map. Naturally in the name you've got a GMT complication. It wouldn't be good to call a watch GMT and not have GMT in it. There are only going to be 500 pieces of these worldwide. And in amongst that, One of those 500 watches will have a golden ticket in it. And the person who gets that golden ticket will win a holiday for two. The Ayada resort in the Maldives. Sounds good. Could do with that to be honest with you. But the watch itself is a 316L stainless steel case. It's 40 millimeters across, it's 14.5 millimeters thick and its lug to lug is 49.3 which makes it fairly wearable. 100 meters of water resistance. You've got the Norqain signature plate on the side, which means you can get some customization on there if you should so wish. The dial itself is a silvery white color and you've got that colorful kind of logo all in there. On the case back of this watch you've got a colorful Enjoy Life logo that's printed across that crystal. That's covering up the movement to some extent. But you've also got a one of 500 designation. Now the dial, it's a matte white base that provides that backdrop for that stylized world map. It's finished in lots of shades as you would have seen in this previous series. Oranges, pinks, turquoises, etc. And those colors also continue around the 24 hour GMT ring. It gives you a kind of sunrise sunset vibe going on. It's also not a standard GMT scale with numbers. Midnight. Well, you've got a crescent moon, morning's got a coffee cup, you've got happy hour with its own cocktail between 4 and 6pm and the 24 is illustrated with a little holiday icon. I think it's pretty cool to be honest with you. The date disc, as we mentioned, every seven days you've got a beach inspired graphic. You've got flip flops, sunglasses, swimming shorts and a beach umbrella. The movement in There is the calibre NN22 developed in collaboration with Kinisi. It's cost certified. Seven hours of power reserve and it's a flyer style GMT. You've got a white rubber strap or a three link stainless steel bracelet. Price wise it's 4885 on the bracelet or 4750 on the white rubber strap. Now it's a fun looking watch. It's cool. I like the fact that Norqain are well taking the serious out of serious watchmaking and it's good fun. Not sure that maybe there's an awful lot of models of this in the range now. I was actually a big fan of the sprinkles one. The first one not too bad. The ice cream one I really like the second one, this one, there's a lot going on in the dial. It's a fun watch. Is it over fun? That's only a question I'm posing. Ricky, what's your thoughts?

A

Because these are limited edition and they have been maybe limited by production previously. They were killed off the first one within seven months. We were told something like that. They killed off their baby. That was the most successful release released so far. And I don't know if that is commercial suicide or not, but it works for the collector because people then don't look at it and go limited edition series of 5000, 9000, unlimited production ROM of 15, 20,000. The fact that these ones are 500 pieces only means they're building a bit of hype and anticipation. So I think this could be their golden ticket. This could be what moves them forward. Because nor kind of had the wild one. That's what they were known for, but it didn't appeal to everybody. Whereas these watches, if you take away the color, they are a watch that anybody could wear at any time, anywhere at all in the world. It could be in the boardroom, it could be in the beach. And then they bring in these colorways that they kind of work together. But when you bring in the theme of summer ice cream sprinkles, the GMT version we're talking about today, that again adds another layer on top. So I think they found their stride and this melody that they're humming along to, this is actually working out great for them. So the longer they can continue this along with the other lines and there are various models that Norkane produced that that we don't generally talk about because they release them. Not too much fanfare. They're not limited edition, they're not tied in with A rugby player or a tennis star or a footballer or anything like that. So they are starting to find their path and they're a relatively new company. They've not been going for decades and decades. They are a minnow when it comes to the amount of time they've spent in the Swiss industry. Although the people behind the scenes know what they're talking about, especially here in the uk, the team they've got are doing great guns and we're working behind the scenes to move some things along to bring them onto the show to give us a recap because it's been many years since Ben Kufer, the CEO, the guy that founded the company along with other people, was last on to tell us what they've been up to. And there have been some changes within the staff. They brought in more people, they've explored new options. They're still sponsoring this, that and the other. They're getting more involved with sports and these releases. This colorway. I love the fact that the UK on the dial has got orange on it and Dave likes orange as well. So this is a massive one for us.

B

Moving along, though, Ricky, I always come second. You're coming first. What she got on the wrist?

A

Oh, your time to tell us to do the wrist check. Okay. And it is early in the show this time around and I'm wearing a summer watch because this is the watch I wore when I was on my travels in the past week. Why, you may ask? Well, it's a luminous watch that has got a luminous strap and a very funky dial. And the sun was out. The sun is its hat on it for the entirety of last week here in Scotland, maybe not football wise, but, you know, in the sky, weather wise, it was great to get out there and actually lap up the rays. Didn't get sunburned, which is surprising considering the amount of hair in my head. But I had a fantastic time out and about. So I'm wearing today the watch that was my go to, I would say, over the past seven days. And that is the Christopher Ward Bel Canto. But it's not just any Bel Canto. This is the Lumiere edition and I've pronounced that one properly, so I did actually check. So I'm known as the person on the show that said he didn't like the Bel Canto when it was released, when they did limited edition versions of it, when they did one offs, multiple series charity versions, I said, yeah, not really my vibe. It's very classic. It's got lots of componentry. Dial side. Yeah. It makes a little dong noise every hour or so, but. But not for me. Then this got released end of last year and I made a beeline for the Christopher Ward folks over in Dubai. We were over at Dubai Watch Week, they were round the corner. We popped over to say hello. This was on display. I'd seen the press release, the renders, the pictures, the videos, but there ain't nothing like getting the watch in hand and on the wrist to check it out. And I fell in love. Why did I fall in love? Well, it's a Bel Canto, but it's not. It has been remixed, revitalized, updated and made extremely sci fi. I'm thinking Blade Runner, I'm thinking Trolley. And when I actually spoke to Mike France, the CEO of Christopher Ward afterwards, he said, yeah, our mood board for the design of this watch had Tron imagery on it. So if you think of Tron legacy, that's the middle one. It's not the original, it's not Ares, the latest and greatest, which I actually enjoyed. This is the one from 2010 that they based this idea along with other things on. And it is just brilliant. In daylight, it looks good. As soon as you pull the light away, the dial, the small dial at the 12 o' clock position lights up along with the loom markers on the hand, but. But the fun doesn't stop on the front. It goes all the way around. The white rubber strap is infused with luminous materials, so it glows. Not to the same extent, but there is a good contrast between the watch face and the strap itself. If I take it carefully off the wrist on the back, you don't have a clear case back, but you do have a funky. Which looks like almost the chime symbol you'd have seen on maybe a Casio watch or something of that ilk back in the 80s when digital technology was just coming along. But this ain't a digital watch. When this chimes, it is all mechanical, thanks to the custom movement inside. I think it's based on Sellita, but they have created their own movement inside that actually makes the dinging noise every so often. So if I was to pop the crown out, move the handset up to the right position and then hold this against the microphone, you may be able to hear it. So, yes, as soon as I saw it, as soon as I tried it, as soon as I listened to it in real life, I thought, this is a watch that I want to have. Problem is, it was wait listed. They had actually sold out their allocation and they didn't know how successful or how popular it was going to be. So I had to wait a number of months for this to actually turn up in the UK and I got it a number of months back. I actually had it in time for the latest addition that we had, Make France on the show when he was talking about the updated revitalized Sealander collection. So that's my wrist check for today. It is the Belcanto Lumiere from Christopher Ward. Rick, Dave, what you got on the wrist?

B

So what's Dave got on the wrist? Well, as usual he doesn't actually have it on the wrist because wrist camera, opposite sides.

A

Have we not fixed that problem yet? We did send out a memo last week to all staff.

B

No, we did, but no, it's not going to get fixed either.

A

Shame your dad wasn't fixed about 53 years ago.

B

What I'm wearing is a watch that, well, kind of reminds me of the first watch we talked about, the Zenith. It's not a Zenith though, but it's definitely angular and it's about the same size as that watch. And it's from Citizen and it's one of their mechanical watches as opposed to one of their eco drives that I am commonly wearing or owning. So this is The Citizen Series 8, one of their automatic mechanical numbers. This is a stainless steel case on this one, but a bit like that Zenith, quite heavily faceted. It is also a slightly larger piece. I love the dial on this watch. This is one of a dial. It's a kind of sandwich. You've got this kind of lattice effect. It's almost like little, well, cakes, little cakes that are all cut into slices all over the dial. And I don't know if the camera is picking up but you've got this iridescent disc behind it where you've got purples and greens. It's like that Flip car that Nissan made way back in the day, I think probably in the 90s. You've got the date of course there at 3 o' clock and these skeletonized hands. It is quite a chunky little number with those big, big crown guards on there. It's a very plain case back, not a lot going on apart from a few wordiges. And you've got the bracelet with a quite interesting little clasp that looks like it's a butterfly but in fact it is a fold over clasp. But yeah, it wears very comfortably as well with the Citizen logo on the clasp there. This is the NA 1010. That's the model of this watch. I think it's from around Five or six years ago from memory is when this came out. And this was one of the first of the watches that usually were not available in the uk, only available in Japan and somet times the USA that made its way to the shores in the uk And I thought I'm going to pick one up before they decide to stop bringing them in anymore. Watch I've not worn very often, but again, as I've been going through my watch boxes trying to pull unusual and weird things that I've not worn too much, it's pretty good as well. No scratches, no marks on it. And I like that mix of polished surfaces and satinised finishes on there. So that is what David has been wearing.

A

Okay, wrist check's done pretty quick, pretty far up the show for a change. So Mizzy will be super happy with that one. And you can look in the show notes to see the pictures if you're listening audio. And something that has returned to the podcast in droves over the past few weeks is Panerai. I cannot fathom why there is something in the air. The universe is connecting various dots together, but they've released a watch after having two people wrist check Panerai watches over the preceding month. And it has been so long since we've chatted about this brand on the show that, well, let's just take it away. Dave, tell us what's new.

B

Well, it's fair to say as much as the brand has, I guess, been in fashion, been out of fashion, not entirely sure what it is, but it feels like it's maybe coming back into vogue. There is always been a hardcore of collectors that have been into Panerai, the Paneristi as they're called. But what have they done? Well, they've introduced the submersible 44 millimeter on a metal bracelet for the first time ever. Which does seem a bit amazing that they've never offered this watch on a metal bracelet. The signature size? Well, the clue is the 44 millimeter part, but they've never done this on a metal bracelet before and have now released the PAM01756. This is an Atom, actually. New reference. They've not just taken an existing model and put a bracelet on it. This one's got a completely new dial. It's a sunray brushed black dial with a blue dive timer bezel on it. And additionally there is no date window at 3 o' clock, as is seen on all other standard submersible 44 mm. It's kind of loosely based, maybe on the recent Navy SEALS special edition. And like that watch it uses, uses a loomed index marker at 12, 3, 6 and 9, obviously with the date being removed. That's similar to the Navy Seals version. It's also dateless. The styling of the bracelet, well it's the same style and kind of look as you'll see on the smaller models such as the 42 millimeter models. But it has 500 meters of water resistance. Well, it's a submersible. You would like to hope so. And it's got the newer P980 calibre over the P972 is a power reserve. It's got hacking settings seconds. Kind of hope it would have hacking seconds to be honest with you. And coming in at a, well, not ridiculous but not cheap price point of 11,000 of your UK pounds, actually quite a good looking watch. It's a big chunk of metal, have to say, but actually in my opinion looks pretty good. I like that blue colorway against the black. Not two colors I'd necessarily always put together, but not a bad looking one. The bracelet, a little bit of detail on there, especially when it meets up with the watch head. You've got a kind of shaping on there that well resembles that crown guard that you see of course famously on Panerais. I quite like it. Don't know If I'd pay 11 grand for it, but then I wouldn't probably buy it because it's not really ultimately my taste in watches.

A

So there I am playing with my phone as Dave talks, as always. But this time I'm actually not just looking at memes, I'm looking at information and the current on the street price for a brand new Rolex Submariner which is a little bit more loved on the pre owned market. Loved by people, better name more for brand exclusivity. That's £9,500 UK and the Panerai is 11K. So I think they've got their sums wrong. I think if they want to sell more watches, which is probably what watch brands want to do, they should try and actually lower the price point a little bit. Yeah, it's got a funky bracelet. I don't think it will stand up to Rolex bracelets because they are the best for that price point. They are the best. I don't know. The price has always been something with Panerai we've spoken about, especially after watching Windows this year when they showed us this release, that release and we thought that that's pretty good, that's pretty good. Then they told us the price. One of Them was vastly underpriced for what you were getting, technology wise with its crazy power reserve. Then the next one they showed us the price was just. It didn't connect. And I don't think 11k for Panerai in this day and age with the movement, technology and everything else is going to be that good because a Submariner date for a grand and a half cheaper, I think that's where my money would go.

B

That is, of course, if you can actually get one of those said Rolexes, which is a completely different challenge, shall we say. But yeah, I kind of agree with you. I think there's a few other watches I'd be getting before this one if I wanted something chunky and big divey, probably be leaning towards Omega Ploprof, something kind of big, chunky and funky.

A

Well, let me jump in there and ask on the Omega front, where you know much more than I do, what is the conversion there? Would it be something. It wouldn't be a deep one, it wouldn't be the Ploprof. It would be something maybe Seamasterish.

B

I'd say it probably fits somewhere in and around the Seamaster Ultra Deeps. There's the ultra deep insane one with the titanium case, but there's also the steel versions with the Omega steel, which is still the best and worst name ever for a name of steel. But yes, I would lean in towards those. Maybe the kind of higher spec Seamaster ranges. I've forgotten the name of it, it's disappeared. But above the Seamaster, three hundreds into the kind of. They've got a few watches, I think they're usually 600 meters in Omega from memory, something like that. And you can definite get it for less than 11,000 of your UK pounds for sure. Anyway, it's up to people to decide whether they think or not that this is value for them. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of Panerista. I think that this is the watch for them and they will buy it. So good luck to them and well, as we always say, if you like it and you've got the money, buy it. Outside of that, Ricky, we've been up to stuff. What have you been up to?

A

Well, last week Dave was the guy that was out and about doing crazy stuff and I didn't do much. I just turned around the head house, looked at my watch collection. Isn't that what everybody does that listens to the show? But this time around I decided to do a thing that happens maybe every three years or so and I go Back in time, I go to a place in Scotland called the Secret Bunker. You know, you go to a museum, they've got exhibits, or maybe there all the time, or they bring them in for a specific gallery event. But those exhibits are dressed up with a set, so they kind of look like they're in the right place. The secret bunker near Crail and Strother on the way to St Andrews, it's in its original location. So we're talking a Cold War era, 1950s-1990s underground nuclear bunker that the government and heads of state and the military would be in if the worst was to happen. Maybe something was sent over from the Russians. And this has been decommissioned, it has been restored on an ongoing basis for many, many years and decades, since 1993, there or thereabouts. And I just like to go back every so often because there is no feeling like of anywhere. I've been museums, art galleries, exhibits. Because this is in the same place with the same stuff. You have the smells, they have piped in audio that's recorded to be reminiscent of. As if there was a full motley crew of military personnel. They're running around daft, making sure that the country was going to come out the other side scathed, unscathed, whatever it may be. And each of these different rooms and departments, they have got all the accoutrements that you would have seen, all the accessories. You've got the beds, the radar equipment, the CB radios, military stuff. Got to be careful with the names of certain implements because they'll get blocked on Neutron YouTube. And I just. I like going there, seeing what it's like, because it's also a bit of a reminder how good times are. Just now. The news just reports some bad things for clicks and to get the headlines. There is a lot of good in the world and it could be a hell of a lot worse. Lots of people thought after the Second World War, nuclear would take over and perhaps bombs would start flying, missiles would start flying through the air. Thankfully, not the case. But this is just a time capsule, a working, living time capsule that you can walk through. It's got multiple rooms, multiple levels. It's open, I believe, March through to October because of the weather. It's kind of remote and out the way. You'd never find it unless they had big, massive signposts, which they do. And if you're into history, it's brilliant. If you're into military stuff, it's brilliant. Even if you're not, it is fantastic. It's good just to Go and escape and think about times that weren't quite as good as they are just now. And I missed this point in time where television used to have adverts running, radio used to adverts, schools used to have information about what happens if something comes up over duck and cover, how to stay safe in the worst of times. They've got a little cinema room where they play these informational reels. It's just a great experience. I've done it countless times since way back. I think it was 2000 was the first time I went. Hasn't changed much but they have improved that. They brought new exhibits and they've updated it and the information that they've got in and around it is just fantastic. Have you ever actually been to this place?

B

I have indeed. I've been like you multiple times, four or five times I think I've been. There used to be an air show that took place up at Arab RAF lookers which is a bit north of there, up towards St. Andrews kind of way. And quite often I would spend a bit of time over in Fife, go to the air show, maybe drop into the bunker, etc. Etc. Yeah, it's great if you love it. I love the fact that even on a nice warm day you go in and it's just very pleasant inside or it's freezing cold outside and you go in and it's just a nice temperature because of course it's deep enough underground and stabilized that well, it's pretty funky and well, this is one of the bunkers that was decommissioned long before bunkers were, were fully decommissioned because this is one of the older ones and well, yeah, it probably wasn't going to survive a full on big strike. And there is a newer bunker in Edinburgh that's been decommissioned a few years ago as well that you can, well not maybe officially get into but you can definitely go and have a looky see if you wish. Yeah, well worth it if you're in Scotland or if you're up in Scotland on holiday or whatever and you're in the Fife area just north of Edinburgh over those pretty bridges there's a railway one and two roads, road ones. You're into Fife and you can go and visit the secret bunker and I would suggest it's well worth a wee day trip.

A

Now what have you been up to?

B

What have I been up to? Well, I have been over in Chicago and over in Chicago for the wind up.

A

Oh, so you're making pizza.

B

Well, I had pizza and it was very tasty. I have to Say, but they've got this weird baked pizza cake type thing, which is not a pizza, but is a pizza. Anyway, it was good. Their hot dogs, though, in that city are excellent. And before you say it, Ricky, an edible, edible hot dog known as a sausage. Not the kind of sausage you're thinking either, but yeah, they're very nice and spicy. So we were in there for the event, which took place Friday, Saturday and Sunday. All new venue. Lots of our friends there, Christopher Ward, they were there. We had the folk from, well, lots of the brands that we talk about on the show. Too many to name. And, well, I've named Christopher Ward, but it'd be unfair to name some. But not all of them did meet a few listeners of the show as well. Always nice when people come up and say hello. Hello. Well, around half past four on one of the days, I was buying a gin and tonic because, well, you know, gin and tonic o'. Clock. And an individual came up to me and said, oh, I listen to the podcast, it's very good and I want to buy your gin because you've spent plenty time amusing me. His name was Brian Mason. He was from Virginia and we had a good little blether. He's been listening to the show for many, many years and I said I would absolutely give him a call out. Well, I mean, he bought me a gin and tonic. It's bribery in some fashion, but I'll take it if it involves gin and tonics being bought for me. Great chat to him. He had a great time at the show. He had come in from Virgin to get a good look at all these different watches that were at the event. Many of the brands, as I mentioned, that we talk about were there and we got a good play with them, got to see what they were up to and maybe a sneaky peek at some things that are coming out down the line. Great event that also Chicago, what a great city. Really like it.

A

Is that where Al Capone was based?

B

I'm not sure if Al Capone was based there, but there is a great arts institute there. Got some time to see some, well, very cool artwork that was there. And, well, there's a big thing called the Bean.

A

Oh, did you go and flick it?

B

Oh, well, you see, I was trying to be subtle. I have a picture of me making a gentle flicking motion and the Bean is not close, it's just far away. Well, check out. Well, various online dictionaries will make you understand what that is. If you're not already aware of what it is. I'm sure, most of you listening know exactly what we're talking about. But we're being YouTube friendly because, well,

A

the thespians will understand. Understand it.

B

Yes, indeed. And anyone that has had, well, fun whilst flecking beans will understand it as well. So that's predominantly what I've been up to outside of that. Well, not really very much because that was roughly one week of my time and I have to say it was very hot and very humid in that city. 35 Celsius, something like that. Don't know what it is in your F numbers that you use over there. 90 something. But anyway, it was a pleasant trip. Always good to see lots of people over there. Built up a few good friends in that city since we've been visiting for a few years. Years. That's it though we should probably go on with well, some watch and news that we need to cover before we get this episode to a finish.

A

Yeah, we like to balance out new releases, industry news bits and bobs from here, there and everywhere. And there's a brand behind the scenes that makes a lot of the movement technology you have seen in many different watches from many different manufacturers, including the likes of Jacob and company. And some of their watches, you may not like them, you may not appreciate them, you may not enjoy the price, price point, but you cannot vault when they produce a working engine inside a watch or they create a tellurium of moving planets and things like that. But one of the brands behind the scenes, Concepto, they're celebrating something.

B

Yeah, Indeed. It's their 20 year anniversary of making movements. Now, the founder of Concepto is Valerian Jacket and he's led that company since its founding back in 2006. They are now a vertically integrated manufacturer. They're capable of creating and producing, producing essentially every part of a watch. They do remain a family business and they've got some pretty impressive numbers. According to them, 20, 25, their sales exceeded 60 million Swiss francs and an output of some 30,000 movements, including around 1100 Tourbillon calibers. They list over 100 brands on their client list and they were the brand that helped Bulgari set the record for the world's thinnest tourbillon. Jacob and co. Well, they tapped up concepto for the WC16 engine automation. That's in their Bugatti Tourbillon wristwatch. And in fact even Bugatti themselves, they turned to Concepto for the mechanical instrument panel in their latest Hypercar. We talked about that in a previous episode.

A

Is that maybe something over here, Dave? This thing that's printed 3D, that could

B

be that highly, highly legal, completely licensed 3D printed model that you have have there. Excellent. Yep. Because of course, everything you see in the background of these shows is 100% legitimate. But of course they've also done work for other brands. Louis Vuitton Resonance, being amongst the brands they've worked with. They've got 183 employees. That's a fair considerable size. They're debuting around 10 new calibers each year. But of course there is a bit of a storied history ultimately behind not the Concepto as we know it today, but, well, the family. The spiritual predecessor of it was Jacquet and his father, Jean Pierre Jacquet acquired a specialist supplier and transformed it into that brand in 1992. They were very well known for chronograph movements and they included multiple iterations of the Valjoux 7750. But around 2003, it all unravelled amidst a spiraling scandal that became known as the Jacquet Affair. And it saw 2:12 people convicted and sent to prison for crimes related to the watch industry. Everything from the production of counterfeit watches and the theft of gold bars. And Jean Pierre himself, in 2008 was sentenced to four and a half years behind bar, but on appeal was released early. Jacquet was renamed. Are you ready for it? Ricky La Joux Perret in 2005, after his fellow shareholder acquired Mr. Jacquet's stake in the firm. That said, the Jacquet name has been well redeemed by Valerian, who has produced and done everything he has with Concepto. But an interesting little footnote there of the, well, wild and wonderful goings on of the Swiss watch industry.

A

I was listening to that story, not knowing where it was going to go, and then the little French guy in the back of my head was saying, sacre les bleu.

B

Sacre les bleu. I think that was probably what was said round about the point where he heard four and a half years. But anyway, if you've got any juicy gossip, if you want to tell us stuff, if you have got any, well, behind the scenes info or you just want to say hello, remember, you can contact us by emailing us infooottishwatches.co.uk. none of that DM nonsense on Instagram because, well, it'll just get lost in all of the nonsense going on. But if you want to call out, if you want us to maybe read your email or you want to anonymously tell us of all the Shenanigans that may or may not be going on do drop us a, an email.

A

Indeed. And we're going to stop off not in the uk, not in Switzerland, not over in Chicago, in America, not even Australia. We're going to talk about India and watchmaking over there because many years ago we had the Bangalore Watch company on the show. It was Neripesh and it was actually Nicholas from Fierce who connected us. He came on to co host and they were telling us the history, the story of Indian watchmaking and they had been flying the flag, trying to revitalize it in the luxury sphere and they've done amazingly well. We caught up with them over last year at Dubai Watch Week to get a bit of a roundup and hopefully we'll be able to bring them back onto the show within the next maybe few weeks, months, because they've got a lot of stories to tell. But it's not just the Bangalore Watch company over in India that are doing amazingly well and doing new things, bringing new ideas to the forefront. Who are the titans of the industry we're talking about today?

B

Well, we are talking about Titan who are by all accounts the largest watch brand operating on from India. And they've got, well, an interesting watch. This is a very minimalist piece and it's the Edge Ultra Slim. Something that's not new but the mechanical version is the new part of this watch. They are based in Bangalore and they are beginning an international expansion. This, as I mentioned, the Ultra Slim is their first mechanical iteration of their super slim Edge timepiece. The brand, well, it was established back in 1984 and it was a joint venture between the mega company that is Tata Industries and Tidco. They've got a lot of branded boutiques and official dealers predominantly in India and a few in and around Asia as well. And there's a huge wide variety of designs and price points from very, very attainable through to, well, a bit more punchy. As mentioned, they're India's leading watchmaker. They produce 60 million watches annually and they're an integrated design and manufacturing capabilities. They have a workforce of 12,000, 3,200 people. So they are not a small little watch company. They've got 3200 points of sales in 431 cities. But the watch itself, this was originally introduced back in 2002 and it was a quartz powered edge. It's very minimalist. Aesthetically wise it's only 5.7 millimeters thick, making it, well, definitely very slim. Not as slim as, well, some of the crazy slim out there. But at 3,000 Swiss francs, it's definitely not a crazy, lunatic price. The dial, this one as well has rotating discs instead of traditional hands. It's very much a black and white color aesthetic. It's a hand wound mechanism, as you would probably expect in a watch that slim. And it's a 40 millimeter lightweight grade 2 titanium case. They're a brand that, well, they've got some interesting things if you look through their catalogues. A lot of the stuff for sure is absolutely made and appeals to probably the Indian domestic market, which is, well, one of the largest watch markets in the world for watches, especially for homegrown watches ones. But we see India more and more coming up. A bit like China. They are catching up fast and they produce huge volumes of watches. I actually, in fact only a few hours ago ordered a watch from an Indian manufacturer that I saw couldn't get because it was sold out. And they are just releasing a new batch of them, 30,000 of them they're going to make and they will sell out instantaneously as well because the price point came in at I. Well, very affordable. £39 UK pounds for this watch. And that's from a watch called the Delhi Watch Company, who've made this funky little tool watch thing on a Velcro strap. It seems to be a bit of a darling of the Instagrams for the last couple of years because they make small batches and they instantly disappear. But I put myself on that thing. You know, you put your email in, they say they'll tell you when there's more coming and you never get an email. Well, out of the blue, a couple of days ago I got an email and it said it's coming and we've got a small batch of them, only 30, 30,000. We expect them to sell out very quickly and to be fair, at the price point, I can see why you

A

drew a comparison there with China and India and watchmaking. And it's things we've spoken about in the past when it comes to China. We've got Sega design, we've got Barons, we've got various players out there and they're creating things that punch well above their price point. And I've always said don't look at something from a place, look at something for a price. And out in China they make things like iPhone, high technology, they produce this, that and the other. And over in India, I believe they were producing iPhones as well, along with various other things. The space race has moved forward. Go think of the past. Look at the present, look at what is currently happening and then make your decisions from there. Now, this isn't the thinnest watch in the world. Definitely not. But compared to most of the movements that are out there just now, it is pretty damn thin, isn't it?

B

It's definitely thin. And the other thing that has to be said is it is an in house movement. They make the design, the movement themselves. It is, is a all Indian watch. They're an economy that are well on the ascendancy. They have skipped over multiple kind of places that most countries and economies have to go through to get there. They are on, well, as I said, the ascendancy. They have a space race of their own. They're more able to get things into orbit than, well, even the United Kingdom.

A

Well, bringing this one in to land, it's not a shuttle, it's not a rocket, but it is the end of a podcast. We're going to tell you. If you like what you hear, drop us a review. Spotify, Apple Podcasts, if you're watching listening on YouTube, YouTube, leave us a comment, let us know what you think, give us your feedback. If you've got any questions, drop us an email. As Dave mentioned earlier, infoocottishwatches.co.uk and if you want to go through the recent past, not all 800ish episodes but we've had everybody from one of the guys that founded, well, he founded Awake, the watch brand that we've been talking about for years and years in the back catalogue. Who else have we got? Dave?

B

Barbara. She pops on regularly to tell us all about her whereabouts and what she's been up to and well, her take on many of things in the watch industry. Industry. We've had the episode all about ebay and enquiries who are well checking to make sure that your watches are not stolen and if they are trying to get them back to their owners. We've got Jem from Elliot Brown telling us well everything Elliot Brown has been up to and of course many other shows from Formex are live shows both in Glasgow and at Buchra in London and well, quite a significant number more episodes, nearly 800 is where we're at today. So you've got at least 700, 180, 90 something that you can go and check out should you be that bored.

A

And coming up next week we've actually got a chat with the folks from the Metropolitan Police so they're going to be explaining the latest problem areas in watch collecting, buying and selling, how to stay safe on the street, when you're out and about wearing your timepieces, you're selling them or you're storing them. Not at home. Maybe you're going on holiday, you're taking them with you. Lots of really pertinent information. Bit of a refresher in places, but it's always good once a year to have that check in, just to bring those thoughts to the forefront, because we get complacent, we take an easy route, we think life is going easy, but we don't want to come a cropper. So that is one you'll want to check out next week, and that is really about it. So thank you for listening and we'll catch you again soon.

B

Take care.