A

Welcome to the Scottish Watches Podcast. This is the episode that we do every single year for good reason, and that is we want people that enjoy this hobby watch, collecting, buying and selling to remain safe at all times. But when the summer months come round, people want to go out, explore, enjoy themselves. It's summer holiday time. Perhaps you're into football, maybe you're out having a couple of beverages with your friends and you're a little bit less stringent with your security measures. But we've got somebody on the line with us that has joined us many times in the past over various years telling us how to stay safe when it's not just wearing watches, but buying, selling, collecting and storing them. So welcome back to the show, Mr. Police Officer. How are you doing?

B

I'm very well, thank you. Thanks for having me back without my colleague today who normally does these with me. He's being called out on operational police duties. But very much looking forward to talking it all through with you again.

A

Fantastic. I've also got Dave with us. How's Dave doing?

C

Dave's good. Good to see you again on the show. And unfortunately, yes, I was going to say your partner in crime, but I suppose that kind of does work, doesn't it? It's a police joke, ha ha. And all that. But yes, he' We've only got you for this year's episode but I'm sure we'll get down into the nitty gritty of all the things that we want to talk about.

A

Yep. And we will tell you to check the show notes. Stay informed. You can either play along at home as you're listening to this show or watch this on YouTube. The link will be in the description or after the fact. You can go through and there'll be links to various things, information, the police website, The Met Instagram, YouTube links, all kinds of good stuff, including some of the things that have been covered maybe in the past that we're going to do a bit of an update and a refresher on because it's always good to remember the things that happened previously. So. So that we don't repeat the same mistakes again. But I suppose the first thing to do is to say what's been happening in the last year? How have you guys been?

B

As always, London's a big city, we've been busy. Lots of crime that does relate to watches. Of course, there's still a very sought after item, a luxury and expensive item that criminals want to get their hands on. I think a lot of the things that have happened have been quite well publicized in the media. A lot of big brands have had their stores raided. People on mopeds with machetes, even drivers driving cars into stores to get their hands on their ill gotten gains and to steal these watches. We've been busy with that. We've had good successes. We have identified a number of the people that have committed these offenses. They've been identified, located, arrested and charged and sent to court. You know, one of the messages I do want to get out on this podcast is that with modern technology, with cctv, AMPR and the effort that we put into these serious crimes, people will be caught. And like I say, a lot of the jobs that we deal with have, have made the newspapers and made the media. But we are getting good results with it. And the good news is that these crimes, these crime types, they are going down. Stolen phones, stolen watches, and the other big crimes that are getting seen around London that, you know, they are going in the right direction. And that is because we are working tirelessly. We know the importance of looking after the people that have these, these products and we want them to, to be safe in London. So as the summer is on us now and the days are longer and people are out drinking and in pubs and wearing their nice watches, you know, we've got a busy period ahead. But there are lots of good measures in place to deal with these crimes.

A

Now. Dave, you're down in London far, far more frequently than myself. So what's it like down there? Is it feeling better? Are people feeling more at ease or are they still quite wary because of all the publicity that's happened over the past number of years?

C

I think it's realistic to say that things of course are still there, the bad things still happen, but I think people are a significantly more aware to just, you know, have their head about them. You know, whether it be the police, the media, or, you know, the likes of this podcast and other channels telling people, look, just a little degree of caution will go a long way. And I've always had that degree of caution. You know, don't, don't wear out things. If you're going to get drunk and you know you're going to get drunk, just, you know, take care. I think because more people are much more aware of it, that's probably helping. As you said, the police are doing a much bigger job. One thing I have also noticed is, yes, the media will always cover these big crimes because, well, it's newspapers and they love the news, don't they? But I've also noticed the Met Police themselves are actively using social media to say, we caught these guys, remember this, that happened ages ago. Finally we caught up with them, they're in court or they've been jailed. And I think all of that, they're beginning to use the channels that we all use to see watches to actually remind people, yes, we've done our job. But also just bear in mind these things do happen. So, you know, I've never found London a particularly threatening place because I've had my, you know, wits about me, to be honest. But yeah, I think in saying that, I think, you know, that you don't hear quite as many of people having their watch taken off their wrists. I think people know the risk areas, they maybe put their watch in their pocket and all these things. So in my opinion, things have got a little better from just my standpoint of seeing it. But the risk is still there. And that's the bit you have to kind of keep in mind. I think sometimes when things get better, the risk can be that people go, oh, it's got better now, so I don't need to be as aware about it. And then it kind of is almost like a vicious circle because it comes back around again. But I think everyone's making sure that they keep that message at the forefront of your thoughts.

A

You're right, the complacency does come in and we're all guilty of it. We think things are fine, we let our guard down and then something nefarious can happen and we definitely don't want that to be the case. So for the people that can only maybe tune in for a short amount of time and don't want to get bogged down and everything, do you want to give us some handy hints, your sort of top five? If you're a watch collector enjoying the hobby.

B

Yeah, like Dave's explained there, keep it simple, really. Make sure you're thinking about what you're wearing. If you have got a higher value watch, think is it appropriate? It might be your favorite occasion of the year. You might be out in London, party, alcohol flowing and you know it's going on to one in the morning when it's dark and when there's less other people on the street but is busy around the sort of party areas and cafes, bars, restaurants. These are times that you're vulnerable when people come into London and if they're in a high end luxury establishment, they often feel comfortable and reassured because, yeah, maybe while you're in there, the security is brilliant and you are in a relatively safe place. But even While you're in there, who's watching you? And as soon as you go out of those doors to go to your taxi or to get home, who could target you on the street? So if you're out for that night, how important is it to wear a high value watch when you've probably got another one that might be suitable for the occasion? So it's definitely an awareness of where and when you should wear your watches. And if you're in a safe environment, if you haven't got it on, it can't get stolen. So that's one of the simple things. If you are wearing a watch that you're worried that people might be trying to take off your wrist. Obviously simple things like wearing a long sleeve shirt is going to hide it from the eyes of people potentially looking to, to see that watch. The other thing to do is if you have a number of watches, this is more of a secondary thing, but if you register them with some of the watch databases, if they do get stolen, if, if you're unfortunate enough that it does get stolen or lost, to have all of those details registered with one of the databases out there that the police work together with to recover these watches, that's really useful. There's the watch register, which has been discussed on Scottish watches before. We've worked with them for years. They're very good at circulating stolen watches globally and we have a lot of success stories getting watches back with them. And there's also Inquirus, which is part of the Richemont Group. They're running a very good database. They own a lot of the watch companies such as Cartier, IWC, Jaeger, LeCoultre. So they have good innards with the companies that these watches might be brought in for repair by an unsuspecting middle person that's bought it off the thief or a handler. So there's a good ways of getting those watches back. And if you preempt registering those when or if the unfortunate thing happens and it gets stolen, then they've already got all of those details and it makes it easier for us to try and recover them if they're flagged up anywhere. Yeah, the other thing is just, just wear that inexpensive watch that hopefully potential robbers would recognize as an inexpensive watch and won't attack you, you know, try and steal it from your wrist. They're the main points, really. Keep it simple and just wear it where appropriate.

A

That makes a lot of sense and it's something we've talked about over the course, not just when you come onto the show, along with your partner in Anti crime. It's something that if you wear a watch that stands out for the wrong reasons, like a really garish looking yellow G shock or something like that, where somebody looks at your wrist and instead of wondering what is up your sleeve, they look and go, that is definitely what I don't want to take off that person. Because it's got a resale value of 49 pence. And breaking down some of the individual points that you've made there, you had mentioned maybe in one of the previous shows that when you're in a club, you're in a bar, you're doing something, it's not that moment in time, it's the fact that that moment in time somebody can recognize, they can spot, they can almost mark. They say people are a mark because back in ye olden times a chalk mark was put on their should so that the person down the road was waiting for that person to walk past them and then attack them or jump them. That's what you want to avoid. You want to avoid being a mark so that when you go outside, somebody doesn't help you into a taxi and bundle you into the wrong car. You're walking past the dark alleyway, you're grabbed and you're pulled inside. It's all about making sure you're not that person. Because we can all think it'll never happen to us until it does happen to us.

B

Yeah. And you've mentioned about a mark, you know, where someone, a criminal flags you up to, you know, their associates in order that you're the person that's targeted. So that sort of brings me on to distraction thefts. So there are groups of criminals often work all over the globe targeting different tourist hotspots, you know, all over Europe. One week it'll be in Madrid, next week it'll be London and they, they keep moving. So it makes it harder for us to, to identify them whilst, whilst they're in London, for example. But just be aware, especially if you've been drinking and you're out, if someone comes up to you and they want to talk to you at a bus stop and they're trying to hug you, you know, it's called hugger mugger. What they'll do is they'll distract you while still may be a little bit inebriated and you think they're being friendly and jovial, but who else is around them taking the watch off your wrist whilst you're talking to them. Or it might be they're doing it themselves and you know, quite often people wake up the next morning a little bit the worse wear from what they've been drinking and the watch isn't on their wrist and it's not until the CCTV is checked that they realize where and when it. Some people don't even realize they've been robbed. So awareness of groups talking to you when there's no sort of natural reason for them to do that is worthwhile.

A

I remember a TV show that you managed to feature on Once Upon a Time, back in the golden days of when we used to watch television instead of YouTube all the time and one of the guys, it was called the Real Hustle here in the UK on the BBC and I believe it's on YouTube. You can find different bits and pieces. It may be linked in the show notes. And on there, there was a couple of episodes where the stars of the show would you how easy it is to remove a watch from a wrist. And there was one where one of the gentlemen would stand at the top of a staircase and try and help people down the stairs and in doing so would hold the arm, the arm would slide down to the wrist, to the hand, back to the wrist and before you know it, by the time the person was at the bottom of the staircase, the watch was gone. And this is something that these folks practice, that is their daily grind. And you may again think to yourself, it won't happen to me. These people, they've got better things to be doing. Well, if they manage to take a watch off the rest of you or somebody else, and then they sell that for a grand, two grand, five grand, ten grand, depending what type of watch it is, that is a hell of an early rate. That's what you've got to think about. All they need to do is do that a couple of times a week and they're making more money than most people in the UK do on a weekly basis. So that's something to consider. But have there been any sort of new variations on fraud, fraudulent watches, fakes and Frankensteins? Because something you've talked about in the past is that super clones are quite hard to spot. Sometimes dealers don't spot them. There was an influx of things appearing on the likes of Craigslist and various different platforms. How is the fraudulent and the fake watch scene seen at the moment?

B

First of all, thanks reminding me of the Real Hustle. That was a good show a long time ago. And if anyone has got time on their hands and want to see examples of, you know, exactly these sort of crimes being carried out. It's quite a good watch to, to have it illustrated how it was all done. So I'd recommend people look at that if they get, they get time to view and see how the criminal minds work with regards to super clones. Fake watches, fraudulent watches. Yeah, that's, that's still ongoing. You need to be careful with people wanting to trade watches with you online if you haven't met them, if they want to meet you. As an example, one of the scams was someone will have a fake watch or a super clone and they'll, they'll advertise it, but they'll, instead of taking money, they'll say, look, I've got it in green, I want to exchange it for a GMT in black. So you think, oh, well, hang on, you know that that watch is worth more than mine. That's quite good. They're happy to do an exchange. They want the watch so they sort of distract the, the seller from the fact that there's a cost for the watch and they kind of think of it as a swap. Generally it's an upgraded watch on the one they want to swap, so they think they're getting a really good deal and they stop focusing on whether they can trust this person or whether it's the right price. They meet up, they swap watches and of course you've given away your perfectly legitimate, a genuine watch and you've ended up with a super clone. And it's not until the watch dealer breaks to you that there's a subtle difference that you've got, you know, 150 pound watch instead of a 15,000 pound watch. So that's still ongoing. I mean, anything you're dealing with online, you've got to be so careful. You don't want to be meeting people that you've never met before at locations with items that can be worth, you know, thousands, if not tens of thousands of pounds. So I would never recommend that. I wouldn't recommend ever meeting up and selling watches with people that don't have a, you know, a long history and a company behind them. And I would only recommend going to registered premises. You know, look at all of the trust pilot things that know who you're dealing with. It's got to be an established company if you want to be buying and selling and trading watches. Certainly what I recommend.

C

The phrase buyer beware comes to mind. And also if a deal is too good to be true, it very much probably is. So, yeah, that's the, the thing to have in your head if you're going to Go to one of these items where it might be traded because ye, there's, there's subtle ways that they use to try and just knock you off guard. And the minute they remove cash from it, people think, oh, this is, this is probably too good to be true. So, yeah, just be aware.

A

I like how you've made the point there that your human security systems break down and turn off the moment that cash is removed from the equation. And doing a swap takes away all those checks and balances that used to be there. So that is a huge one to bear in mind. And I'm remembering something that I brought up way, way, way back in the past and it's something that should be in the mind of any watch enthusiast and collector. It doesn't matter if it's a G Shock is a Christopher Ward or if it's a Patek. Just imagine to that somebody out there that their daily grind, their daily business is thievery. Watches, this, that and the other. It could be cars, Land Rovers, anything at all. Everything they see is cash. So if you're walking around with a Daytona on your Wrist, they see £20,000 sellotaped to your wrist. If you've got a GMT, it's 10,000. If you've got an Omega Speedmaster, it's 5,000. You're walking around holding a bundle of cash in your hand. That is all they see. So if you change it in your mind to think that's what everyone else looking at me sees as a bundle of cash, you will maybe start to protect, cover up and hide what it is you're wearing.

B

They're con men. At the end of the day, they're, you know, confidence tricksters. And as soon as they start to make you believe, oh, hang on, I'm actually getting a deal here. I'm not just getting what the watch is worth, I'm getting an upgraded watch. Like you say, people switch off to all of the sensible things they've considered up till then and end up swapping a watch for what is effectively, you know, some beans, like Jack in the Beanstalk, it's of kind. You've traded it for nothing and you end up with nothing.

C

Basically, the primary rule is have your wits around you, regardless of whether it's you're wearing a watch and you're out and about, whether it's you're selling a watch, trading a watch, literally, common sense and just having your wits about you is the way to do it. There's ways you can put it back on your foot, you know, make sure that you've got the ball in your court, that you're in charge of the serve rather than them. And if you are trading a watch, selling a watch, there are things you can do. Choose a secure meeting location, for example, insisting that you don't want paid in cash because there's always a risk that the cash itself may not be as legitimate as you think it might be either. Bank transfers are your friend when it comes to these. Maybe money or watches are held in escrow. There's lots of options out there that can be much safer than just meeting in a cafe somewhere with a guy or a woman you've never met and suddenly you find that you're the loser. Because these people are clever at what they do. None of them are stupid. They are extremely clever and they know all the tricks about how to get your property cash out of you. So, yeah, definitely think twice about it.

A

And as much as this is nothing to do with ebay, they're not sponsoring this episode or anything at all. Having been through the ebay system of buying and selling watches, and I've told the story before, don't want to repeat myself too many times, but a 30 grand white gold Daytona is what I sold a couple of years ago there to get a deposit for a house together. And I did it through ebay and it was silky smooth, no problems at all. And they protected me and they protected the person that eventually bought the watch because they've got systems in place in between where they take the watch and they authenticate it, they pop the case back off, they check the movement, the serial numbers you mentioned, Inquirus. We had the folks from inquiries on the show less than a month ago along with ebay, because they have now joined forces, linked their database system into the ebay process. And as much as they are owned by Richemont, which you are correct, it's Montblanc, iwc, Minerva, Vacheron, Constantin, all these different maisons within the Richemont Group, they have opened that up to everybody. Omega, Swatch Group, Rolex, Tudor, anybody and everybody that's out there, LVMH so that they can all benefit. Because this is a combined thing. If we can make watch, owning, purchasing, selling safer, everybody wins out of this one. And as Dave mentions there, choosing the proper location. For me, that's ebay, because it opens my sales window up not just to my demographic, within maybe 20 miles of where I stay, but it opens up to the entirety of the uk and there's more people out there perhaps that have got some Spare cash or looking for the particular model that I have for sale at that moment in time. So just something else to be aware of. But is there any stories of things you can talk about? And, and we're very aware there are lots of ongoing operations and investigations, court proceedings that you can't talk about. But is there anything that's been released to the press over the last six months or a year? Some big wins for you guys?

B

Like you say, a lot of stuff is ongoing and we don't want to give the suspects any advantage by letting people know what's happening there. But certainly, for example, the Rolex one, where they attacked the Rolex headquarters back in January of this year, I believe it was. There were six, six people with machetes, mop heads. The footage of, you know, is online. People can see it. Lots of people recorded it and it was, it was shared even on the day. So that's out there as a unit. We identified those suspects and they've been arrested and charged. So like I say, with modern technology, cctv, ampr, really it's a question of when we get to these people and piecing it all together, not, not if now it's not like, like 30 years ago where you haven't got those contingencies in place to, to trail people once they leave the scene. So that, that was a successful case and the court proceedings are ongoing with that. That was particularly shocking because, you know, machetes being waved at people. It's. So the crime type is so disproportionate, what they're prepared to do for, for what they're stealing. And obviously it's very shocking to staff and members of the public alike. And it's not just the, the machetes and the, the violence they show at the store, it's. It's how they ride the bikes. It's through Parkside park and around those areas. It's dangerous for, for everyone that's around it. So we're committed to stopping these types of crimes and the way we do that is by capturing people, putting them into the court system and hopefully taking them off the streets, putting them into prisons so that they realize this type of crime isn't going to pay for them anymore. A lot of the crimes of this type are carried out by quite a small percentage of society, if that makes sense. It's organized criminal networks that their main focus is on doing that. And they're normally quite locally based to where these shops are in Westminster. So each time we catch part of that group, the less of These offenses we see, and I think we are having a good impact on this type of criminals. Other types of offenses that are happening a lot at the moment, it's not just around watches. The price of gold has gone up a lot in recent months and years. Criminals have, you know, criminals know what's going on in the world. They switched on with what's worth stealing and all of a sudden they know that gold has a higher value. And once that's melted down, it's, it's harder to trace. We can, we do know ways to, to locate when people have stolen gold and what they're doing with it. But people will steal the watches, the jewelry to get the gold and the gold content, and that will get melted down. Doesn't so much impact on the watches, because even a gold watch, the value is in the fact that it's a beautiful watch, not that it's got an element of gold in it, but certainly crimes against jewelry stores had gone up because of the, the value of gold. And again, we, we've caught a number of suspects that have been doing that, put them into the court system and got good sentences for that. That. So yeah, a, a lot of what we're dealing with is commercial premises being targeted. And what we've done in recent years is we've highlighted to the, the judges and the legal system just how much even commercial crimes impact on the staff that are in the shop where it feels like they're home. And of course the, the massive effect it will have on the business. I think historically the courts were less sympathetic when it was a business premises or a shop because people don't live there. But we've highlighted the impact that has and now that that gets better sentencing and criminals are punished proportionately to the upset they've caused in terms of street crime. Dave mentioned earlier, of course watches will still be stolen, wallets will still get stolen, phones will, you know, that there'll always be thieves all over the world, you know, stealing in all the big cities. On the watch crime front, I think people have got a much better awareness now, hopefully partly through podcasts such as this, just reminding people where appropriate watches, appropriate places. But people are wearing their cheaper watches that are less desired by criminals. And because there was such a big problem for a while, I think people have become more sensible about where they wear their watches and that has helped bring down the number of watches stolen as well.

A

That's a good point. Point. We are sensitized, not desensitized to watch crime at the moment, which is a Good thing. But that these reminders, once every summer, I feel as if they're valuable and we do go over old ground sometimes, but it's a brilliant reminder. It's like a refresher course once a year. And there's a point you brought up that only really came home to us recently and that is the victimless crime. If a place is burgled, if there has been a robbery, there's been a watch theft or any jewelry, whatever it may be, it's the knock on effect of the staff. And we had an intricate chat with a large retailer in the UK about just how damaging that was. And it was told to us in a way that made perfect sense that these people, like you say, they come in, they've got their work colleagues, they know the delivery driver, the person in the front door, the receptionist, the people answer the phones, and then people come in to their safe place where they have been for years and years, if not decades, and that whole security is stripped away in milliseconds and they're left with the nightmares of waking up of somebody holding a blade against them or threatening to do this, that or the other. And it is just as horrific probably as a home invasion. Thankfully, touchwood, that has never happened to me, hopefully it never does happen to me. But hearing the tales from this retailer of how their staff were affected, it was chilling. And that is something that people don't think about.

C

And also in addition to that, it's the other things. Generally, if someone is raiding a store, they're trying to get away as quickly as possible because generally speaking, these guys have got good alarm systems, so the police are on the case relatively quickly. And it's the knock on effect, as you say, they can be driving erratically, whether on bikes or cars, and it only takes that one kid who walks out between two cars and the next thing you know, they've killed a kid as well. So there's all of these different facets of it that are much bigger than just a faceless business losing some product. And it's good to hear that, you know, the police have taken a proactive approach of trying to educate the justice system, that it's arguably just as impactful, if not potentially more impactful, than a watchman taken off of someone, someone's wrist as they walk into a tube station, for example. That's not good. But the huge ecosystem of what goes on in these big crimes has got lots of knock on entails to it.

A

Now let's switch gears a little bit and talk about buying and not just the selling watches and the wearing watches, but actually going to pick up a watch. We've talked about this in the past, but again, it's a good refresher. Say somebody has saved up their cash, they've had the call from the ad, the watch they've been after for months, if not years, has suddenly become available. And they're excited, they're jubilant, they're ready to rock watch should they do to protect themselves the most so that they don't fall foul of the adrenaline that's running through their veins. Are super excited. How can they stay safe when they're buying a watch?

B

Yeah, well, interesting. I had this exact scenario happen to a friend the other day in London and he contacted me knowing that I deal with watch crime. And he was kind of asking me was he being paranoid? And I said, no, definitely not. So he, he got a call from an ad. It was a, it was a Rolex he was buying. He, he came out, he went in, been waiting for this watch for three years, I believe, and he, he got his watch. I don't think he'd watch this podcast because he hadn't done any of the things that we've, we've said previously. But still he, you know, he was given a bag in store and he came out with the bag. And obviously if you're coming out of one of those stores with a cardboard bag with or without the logo on on, because maybe it was a plain bag. Now people are gonna have seen you gone in if you haven't got that bag when you've gone in and you're coming out with one, unless you're buying a very bulky watch strap, it's probably going to be a watch. So they know that instantly you're worth targeting because if you're coming out of one of those stores, there's not going to be anything in that bag worth under £10,000. So he was instantly a target. And he said as soon as he came out, he was aware of three males all staring at him. Him, he was quite switched on and did spot them and his car was parked nearby and he was sensible enough to think, right, I'm not going to go straight back to my car because I'll be ultra, ultra vulnerable there. And luckily enough, he was smart enough to go into another store. He walked into another store, told the security team there he was, had concerns, he just bought a watch and he thought he was being followed. And of course, course the security people in and around Bond Street, Oxford Street, Regent street, they're Aware of this, it's there, it's the stuff they deal with daily. So they advised him, they provided him with security guards and escorted him to his car. But the shocking thing was even with, with this, and he got to his car safely and the watch is all safe and he got home. But even as he went up to his car, even with the security guards, the three people still followed him to see if there was that opportunity because it's, it's too big a payday to ignore. Or 10,000 pounds, whatever the watch may be worth, if they could have got that, that's a good day's work and a team of three against any, any one of us that, you know, the odds are stacked against you, they're, they're going to get that. And that of course could involve violence, it could involve distraction, but long and short of it, you're, you're going to lose your watch and potentially, you know, worst case scenario, get really badly hurt as well. So it is still happening. So how do we stop that? Or as we've discussed before, the first thing is, is if you're going into a store like that, go in with a rucksack on, that is already looks full. So if you're going into collect a watch, when people watch you go in and when you leave, you've got the same size bag, so there's no reason for them to definitely think you've, you've got something extra from when you've come in and out. So you, you know, you look like a tourist that wants to look at watches. The other thing is, and we've, we're advising shops about this, is to make sure that they don't issue them in their bags with their logos on. If you've got a big watch brand logo on the bag, again, it's signposting criminals to what's inside the bag. So if you do buy a watch and the dealership give you a bag with their logo on, put it inside another bag and don't let people see that as you come out. So that's one of the simple things when going to the store. The other thing is when you're in the store, be aware like lots of these stores, the area where they present you with the watch is inside of the window. So people could actually see you picking up the watch, collecting it. Even if you've done all of the good work with the rucksack and putting it in the wrong bag, if they know you've got it, they're still going to target you. So if you're collecting a watch, collect it somewhere private, out of view of people inside the store and also people outside the store. Because you know, these teams that are working, there's, there's nothing to stop them being in the store as a customer as well. With regards to when you're outside of the store, be with someone else. If you've got high value watch, you know, have someone else, more eyes and ears that are looking out for you, you the better in advance speak with their security teams like my friend did, albeit through another store when he already bought the watch. Have a security team that will take you to your car or take you to where you're, you know, finally safe with that watch to get it home. I think if you ask that in advance, they will help with that. And obviously they've got the expertise of the area, they know where the CCTV cameras are, they know where safe. Maybe they've even got a back entrance that you can, you know, park up at and not have to do that walk, which is the risky area between the store and where you're safely in your vehicle. Going on from that, even once you're in your car, you feel safe. Your watch is in, in the seat next to you, you can see it, you're safe. But remember, these criminals, if they know you've got that watch, it's nothing to them to follow you, tail you for one, two hours. Wherever you're going, they will follow you. And again, you're vulnerable when you park up at the other end and maybe you're going back into your home address or wherever you're taking that watch. So you know your awareness needs to be the whole time from when you leave that store to when you get home, phone, you know, look out, are you being followed? Is there a car that's been with you all the time? If you're local to London and picking up in London, and this is one that happened recently, are there three people on line bikes that keep going past you, following you? Because London traffic's so slow, people can tell you on these bikes, you might not even notice them. Because the bikes are so common, it's really easy for them to stick with you for the couple of miles from, say, Mayfair to Battersea or wherever you might live. So it's just again, have that awareness of who's around you. If you keep seeing people, Paul, once you've got that watch, why do you keep seeing them? Is it natural for them to be there or are they targeting you?

C

Another way that's also quite useful is many of the stores now will give you the option that they will forward the watch onto you or at least the packaging onto you as well. So that you don't necessarily need to leave the store with a big bag with all of this stuff in it. You know, if you've got any concerns about it, again, speak to the staff in the store. They're selling a high value item and they're very aware of what they're doing and quite often as of part, part of the service, because if they know what they're selling and they know the risks involved, they might offer to have that secure courier to your home address. That's something I've made the use of many times because it means you also don't need to wander around a city centre with something of high value. As Ricky mentioned, you wouldn't walk around a city centre with a couple of grand or a couple of 20 grand in your bag or whatever it is. So why would you do it with something that's even easier to grab? So yeah, that's another option on the table.

B

Yeah, I get it. Again, it's just an example, isn't it, of course, of common sense and balancing up. Everyone wants that if they're buying a lovely watch, they want that experience. They want, you know, a glass of champagne or a coffee and picking it up. They've waited three years for that watch. But just stay alert, stay switched on. Maybe say no to the glass of champagne. You know, stay switched on. The watch is worthless if it's been stolen from you. You know, you're not going to get any enjoyment out of it. So it's really key that you pick that watch up and get it home safely.

A

It's interesting that you've told us this story and it has not been set up. This is truthful. We didn't prearrange anything at all like this and it's terrible that that happened. And the fact that your friend then saw three gentlemen actually follow him to the car. It wasn't just something in the back of his mind that he was being a little bit over cautious. You can never be over cautious. And I will repeat, don't feel as if you shouldn't be buying things that you want. You just have to remember that in this day and age, as in any day and age in human history, there are going to be bad characters, bad actors out there that want to just get ahead quickly. They don't want to follow the system, the rules of civilization. They will do what they need to do to get to the end result. As Fast as possible. And has always been the case. We've said things in the past like, wear your nice watches, but be careful. Just as we would always say to somebody, be aware of your surroundings. If perhaps you are on your own, don't go down a dark alleyway. You should legally be allowed to. You are legally allowed. Allowed to, but you shouldn't have to lock your doors, but you do, just to be safe. So it is about screwing the nut and just making sure that you follow the simple rules of the jungle so that you are protected. And if something bad is going to happen, it doesn't happen to you. It perhaps happens to somebody that isn't as careful as you are, like in the zombie apocalypse.

B

I mean, it was interesting that my friend was still, you know, paranoid, that he maybe was just imagining it and he'd got it wrong. And I was like, no, what you're describing is absolutely what happens all of the time. Time. And it's, it's just lucky that you were switched on enough to, to spot it and take the right actions to. To get your watch safely to your car. But like I said to him, even after you're in your car, if they'd seen you get to that, like I've just highlighted, you've got to be aware that they're not following you home as well. And luckily, you know, he. He was home and he was fine. But it doesn't. Once they know you've got the watch, it doesn't stop. Doesn't stop. You've got to make sure you've thought of everything 100%.

A

Dave, you've actually had some stories from folks you know, haven't you?

C

Yeah, sadly, it has happened, albeit in a different country. I know an individual that went over to Paris to pick up a watch, a watch that was extremely difficult to come by. So much so that you had to internationally travel to get said watch and got a little bit excited, purchased the watch, put it into a rucksack again, following everything, all the rules that people talk about. Be safe. Then had to get himself from said retailer to the train station to get the Eurostar back to the UK and made one fatal mistake. He stopped partway along to have a coffee, he sat down and he had a little look inside his rucksack. And of course, what had happened was someone had been following him all the way from the shop on the hope that maybe he had something and that he made a mistake like he did. And that's exactly what he did. He then quite happily put it and zipped up his bag. But between said cafe and the train, the contents of the rucksack went missing. He didn't even know it had gone until he got on the train and decided to take it out in the safe safety of the train, which is not a safe place to take it out, by the way. And it was gone, completely vanished. That was a watch that was never recovered, sadly. And yeah, it shows you, you just have to don't let your guard down at any point until you know you're genuinely in a safe environment. Something else I should mention. And he brought this one up to me, he said I didn't even get the insurance for it because of course I just picked up the watch so it wasn't covered by my insurance. And he learned a salutary lesson there. And going forward, what he now does is every time he's a watch to pick up, he contacts, asks the retailer and says, can you give me all the details, the serial numbers, etc. Can you even send me the copy of payments and such like? And he gets it on the insurance before he even picks the watch up. So that if ever the worst thing was to happen again to him and unluckily it could do, he knows he's insured and at least he would be covered because not only did he lose the watch, that will probably take years to get again, he got zero back from it from any insurance. So lots of these things to keep in mind and again, most of them simple and sensible. Just have your head on, think of the basics, think, you know, sad to say, you have to sometimes think, if I was going to steal a watch, how would I do it? And the reality is that's probably one of the way that many of the criminals do think as well. So just think, well, if they, if that's how I would do it, then maybe don't do the things that would make me a target.

B

And again, that's an example where companies such as Inquirus and the Watch Register are good to know about and that could all be registered in store before you even leave. And at least it's there for when the worst case scenario could happen. The thing is, with the registration now, you put it on, it can be searched anywhere in the world, it's global. And the other thing is it's free of charge to search for it. And all of those details go into sort of a very protected digital vault. So it's not out there for everyone to see, it's just for the relevant companies and the police units that they work with and that could be all over Europe, all over the world.

A

That is something to highlight because we have spoken in the past about Virus is free of charge. And like I said when they were on just a few weeks back, if anyone's missed that episode with ebay and Inquirers, it's a really good one. If maybe if you're not even interested in purchasing or selling on ebay, it's good to find out about the background. And something had been brought up recently in an email to us talking about Paul Thorp and his digital watch vault that he launched with some partners a number of years ago. And because he left the watch and the stream, moved into other areas that just died off, off completely. And people had not invested money, but they'd invested their time putting in their serial numbers, putting in their values, taking photos of the watches, et cetera, et cetera, and that evaporated. So that was gone and a waste of time. Whereas something that's run by Richemont that been in operation and some of their maisons have been running for 2, 300 years, they are not going anywhere. When they put their name behind it, they don't quickly bury it. They keep it running. They will invest, they will keep it at the fore. Especially since we're all in a very digital economy and a very digital industry at the moment. So the Enquirer system system, the Watch Register Previous episode the Podcast Good Ways to Scare Yourself into being Safe we want to enjoy the hobby, we'll keep saying that, but stay safe.

C

The other thing to bear in mind and remember about this is as we mentioned earlier, that you know, wear the sensible watch, wear the suitable watch for going out and we all like to wear the expensive watches, the fancy ones, but, well, most of us, and I guess most people listening to this are going to be into their watches. We've all got that watch that's not that expensive. It's not a high target, I think item and we probably don't wear it out. And about the watch we wear for gardening, the watch we wear for kicking about the house, sometimes it's nice to actually just get something out the watch box that maybe doesn't hold a high value rating, but it's nice to actually wear them out. You'll be surprised sometimes by how many people, well, want to talk about that watch because you wear a cool G shock or you wear something that's, you know, a cool and interesting watch, but it's not going to be a target for the thieves.

A

I was actually having a chat with somebody in A retail store over the past few days and we were talking about watches that are phenomenal but criminals don't know about. For example, Moser Streamliner. That's a watch that a criminal would really have to be into the hobby to understand what it is and then think, I've got a buyer lined up for this thing versus a Submariner, a gmt, a Daytona, a Speedmaster or a Patek, one of those high value items that you see on rappers and rockstars. But again, talking about some of the brands that we bring onto the show that are not crazy expensive. The likes of Formex, the place that Dave works, or Raj, fantastic watches that will just fly under the radar, radar. So these independents, as well as offering great value for money, they're also something that are a little bit safer out and about.

B

We do have to remember that, you know, watch thieves, good at good though they are and they know what they're targeting. Given the opportunity, any watch that they see that they can get, they will, they will steal off you if, if the situation arises. So the important thing is even if you have got that watch that might be significantly less and maybe a rarer brand is still really good to get that circulated because it could still get stolen. It could be a 50 pound watch that someone's mistaken for a 5,000 pound watch. So it works at all levels to circulate that. I certainly know with Inquirus They've got over 200 different brands that they know all the details of and how to circulate them and where the serial numbers are. And the watch register have got a very extensive list of all the different brands as well. So just because it's a cheaper watch, we still would like to get it back if it ever gets stolen. The same protocols for all of them really.

A

Do you happen to know off the top of your head, without going through any sort of Excel spreadsheets and whatnot, what are the most sought after stolen watches, the ones that people tend to lose the most?

B

I haven't got the facts or figures for that, but I can tell you from dealing with it for many years, obviously it's the big brands that generally are worth more sort of aftermarket grey market market that are popular to steal. So you know, Rolex is, is a very popular one and gets targeted a lot and other big brands in that sort of bracket. But it could be any watch because the thief doesn't always know what they're they're trying to steal. They just see a watch on someone that they assume is wealthy or has just come out of a nice shop or expensive restaurant. So they, they will target it anyway if they get close and they see it's not a brand they want. Yeah, of course they might leave it, but anything can be stolen, stolen and Rolex is one of, one of the big, big brands. Luckily they're very good with their serial numbers. People know where to look for it and obviously they've even put serial numbers in the front of watches now. So even when they're displayed in photographs, you can pick up a serial number. AP the the big brands that sell for more money once they're not at list price, they're obviously where the thieves know they can make the most money if they've managed to steal those. And of course they're very popular brands. They are the sort of go to brands that a lot of people want to buy for that special occasion to mark that celebration, etc.

C

Yes, I guess ultimately when they're stealing watches, one of the things that's in their head is how easily and quickly can we get rid of this? And if it's something really obscure then it's going to be a much more difficult job. But that said, you know, the more organized these criminal gangs are, the more able they are to move anything and everything to the right hands. So yeah, just keep your wits about you. That's again, we keep reiterating it but I think really what's about you and a bit of common sense goes out a long way to stop you ever being a victim of one of these types of offences that we've discussed.

A

And it's not even just watches. I find myself when I'm even in Edinburgh city centre, which doesn't have the same, I don't know, newsworthiness about things as London, Paris, Milan, etc. I use my phone in public with my hand cowling the top of the phone just in case a moped goes past. And I do the same in Glasgow just in case. I see scooters all over the place and you can't tell who is what, they're silent, they just fly past you and it could be anybody. Somebody could have been eyeing you up from across the street. They could have phoned their friend to say there's somebody walking up the street with a nice watch or whatever. So yeah, just keep aware of your surroundings in all walks of life. It doesn't matter if it's watches, mobile phones or anything at all. Laptops, iPads, everything can go walkies. It's quickly turned into cash and that's what we don't want for you guys. Well, we're coming to the end of this episode. It has been quite dark and dirty, but let's try and lighten the mood a little bit. What are the, the good things that you guys have been up to? What are the success stories? What are you sort of beating the drum about? That have been the wins for the Met over the last few months.

B

A lot of the commercial crimes that have happened, you know, we have, we've identified the people and arrested those. Good news is, you know, these, these crimes have decreased. So the street crime, if you like, the robberies, we're having an impact on that. That's been through our unit, working with other borough units in particular like Westminster, they have had a lot of operations, a lot of stings where there are officers prepared for when victims or in some cases which have been publicized stooges have been attacked. And then all of a sudden everyone appears from everywhere in their, you know, non uniform clothes, but the tasers come out. That's been well publicized and people have been arrested. And I think that's good because it just puts that element of doubt into the prolific thieves in and around central London. If they are targeting someone, could that person be linked to the police and are police officers about to come out and arrest them as soon as they do it? So to make the criminals feel uncomfortable when they're in London, that's what we want to achieve. We've had some good results with that, but as always, it goes on. We know popular watches are with criminals, how much money they can make from it. So there's still a number of operations going on to, to target these thieves and, you know, make people feel more comfortable and be able to wear their watches like they should. But like we've reiterated, only wear it in the right circumstances. Don't put yourself at risk for the sake of having a luxury watch on. You know, any watch you've got is going to tell you the time, time to only wear it when you need it for that specific moment where you're safe.

A

Wise words to end the show on. And it is always a pleasure having you here, even though you're riding solo. This time you didn't have your co partner, we'll call him your co partner. It's been great having you on the show and every episode is different, the theme is the same, it's all about safety, but there's always something new. And in the world of online watch crime, offline watch crime, we just have to be very aware, very careful because you save your much money up, you wait for the call and then if something bad happens, not only do you lose your place in the waiting list, but you've lost all your savings along the way. Or it could be something we've heard a lot of people say. To us, it's not even the value of the watch monetary, it's because it's an heirloom piece. It was passed down from a father that's passed away. You can't replace that. It doesn't matter if there's a million pounds behind it, you could not replace the memories that are invested. So always protect what you have. That's probably the best idea. And me personally, personally I have got a safety deposit box in Glasgow city centre and I use that all the time. I don't even have an insurance policy for the house because no watches stay in the house, everything stays there. And it feels like going to a sweet shop for me before I go to maybe Dubai or somewhere else because I stop off, I pick up a watch that I've not seen for months or weeks depending and then I bring that watch with me to wherever I'm going and then it returns back as soon as I'm back. And it's super cheap. I think it was around about 4 or 500 pounds for an entire year. With a box that you can put your documents in your watch collection, a hard drive with backed up stuff from your house, childhood memories, family pictures, etc, etc and it's a lot cheaper than insurance policies because I looked at that myself. Not to say that's a bad thing. If you are going on holiday there are various services out there that you can utilize that will protect you if the worst was to happen. But that is the way that I deal with things because I remember getting a quote and it was about five or six thousand pounds a year for an insurance policy for my house and they wanted a special safe installed by a special company and to be checked. It was all these different bits and bobs. Bobs far easier putting it out of sight, out of mind. And as you mentioned, one of the last shows treat going to a safety deposit place like buying a watch. Because if people can watch you going in and out of a shop, they can watch you at a safety deposit place.

B

That's a, that's a really good point. And like you say, safety deposit places of a very good idea. Just like everything, every step of the way, be aware, think ahead of the criminals, you know, criminals that are doing these high end crimes, they're so smart and they're always evolving. Today, I think we've covered a lot about street crime and sort of burglaries at commercial premises and in particular, stuff that relates to in and around central London and other. Other aspects to think about is there's a lot of scam phone calls these days. I don't know about you, but on my mobiles, you know, regularly there's a number that's coming up, suspected spam. If your phone provider is telling you it's a suspected spam, bam, probably best to just totally ignore it, not answer it. People, you know, companies sell people's numbers on databases and anyone can get these calls. But what happens is with modern technology, if you do answer the calls and you give three or four seconds of your voice, they can then save that voice. They can use AI, which is of course constantly evolving. And by them having your voice puts you in a vulnerable position, because they can then use that to, to trick you further down the line, to trick companies that you've worked with, with that may recognize your voice as well. You know, people can take over your identity effectively by having a few seconds of your voice. So avoid the scam calls because that can lead on to other frauds being committed against you. And if someone's got your phone number, what else have they got about you? They got your email address, what do they know about you? How did they get it? And just be careful about that because street robbery is not the only way to lose your watch. There's lots of ways you can be scanned out of it. So just, just always be aware, be careful with who's contacting you on your phone. Try not to talk about your watches, enjoy them, but try not to share information on them. On social media, the more that people know about what watches you've got, the more people out there that potentially want to take them away from you.

A

I remember on a previous show, as a good reminder, Yanni, who ran Yanimize, I think it was called wrapping company for cars here in the uk, huge on social media media posted that he was out. I think it was his 40th birthday or something, and he was wearing a really cool watch. Dodgy folks saw that on Instagram, knew where he was. It had been posted minutes previous. They followed him home, they knew where he already stayed, they waited for him to fall asleep, they broke into his area that was very secure and they tried to rob him, threatened his family, all kinds of stuff. So, yeah, home invasions, all these things do happen. And the more you post on social media, the more people find out about you. So that is a really good. That's another bad story to end the show and probably not the best thing I in the world there. But you are correct. And talking about AI and using people's voice. Well, at least me and Dave don't have nearly 800 hours worth of our voice on the Internet for people to utilize.

C

But at the same time, there's also precautions you can take. Yes, we all want to maybe occasionally post a watch or a picture of a watch or somewhere we are on social media, you can play various tricks. Don't post it when you're actually there, post it days later, post it a week later, you know, anonymize data, don't tag yourself. Lots of little things you can do in social media to keep yourself safe. And it's very, very much in the news at the moment because of course, it seems that everyone wants to crack down and make sure the social media companies are held to account as well, which is not a bad thing in my opinion. But you can do lots of things yourself to make sure you stay safe online as well as in the real world.

A

And that's the reason we didn't do a wrist check today, because we don't want to tell you what we're wearing. But no, it's been phenomenal having you on so much information to get through. And at the end there, there were parts we forgot to cover. So I'm glad that we managed to squeeze them in. Well, we are going to be very careful because summer holidays are here. Just now, myself, Simona, Dave, the team, we're heading across to Geneva watch days without expensive watches and that is going to be phenomenal. We're going to see the expensive watches instead of taking them with us. But there is lots in our back catalog I mentioned there 800. We're fast approaching episode 800. You can go through various different things. The Inquirers episode with ebay, recently Awake, tons and tons there. I don't even have the list in front of me. You'll just have to check the show notes. And if people want to find out more about what the Met Police and other forces across the UK are up to. Is there an online portal, is there an Instagram page somewhere people can go?

B

Social media pages with the Metropolitan Police now, we obviously try and keep people updated with what we're doing, what we're having success with. Just, just have a Google and look at the Met Police. We're on Instagram, we're on all of those, those forums and the good news stories do come out. Hopefully there hasn't been just doom and gloom me telling you all of that today. I like to not think of those bad stories, but just stories that make your good listeners aware, wear and help them protect their watches so that these, these things don't happen as much in the future. And a lot of it's very simple, a lot of it we've covered before, but it's a really good reminder. And the thing is, listen to this podcast. Even if you get one or two things from this, great. But like we've mentioned, AI, have a look on your own phones and research ways to protect your watches better because for every scenario you're thinking of, there'll be advice about how to, to look after your watch. So do, do your own research as well. Start with the little bits that we' and if you're, if you're worried or concerned about something, have a look on your, on your phone, on Google, on the various AI sites now and say, look, I'm thinking about doing this. How best do I protect this? What measures should I take? And the advice is out there. A lot of it the Met have put out and we've put out on these podcasts. But if you, if you research, it will come up again and give you really focused advice for your situation.

A

And there we go. Kuno said it better myself. So thank you for joining us and we'll catch you guys again soon.

B

Thank you. Take care.

C

Take care,

A

Sam.