A

Foreign. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Screenstrong Families Podcast, bringing you the best solutions for parents who are serious about eliminating screen problems in their homes. This is Melanie Hempe and I'm so glad that you're joining us today. If you're one of our regular listeners, welcome back. And if you're a new friend, we're so glad you found us. You're no longer alone in this journey of navigating screens in your home. You have found your people over here at Screen Strong. So today we are going to continue our episode that we started last week about raising screen schooled kids. Screen Strong kids, all the things from the different books that we're looking at right now. So I want to talk this episode about how we kind of talked about what the problem was last time. We're going to talk about how parents can take back their agency and their leadership. In our last episode, we talked about what was happening to kids in the world of constant screen time and what was happening at school. And because you see that problem now, we have to start asking the harder questions, what are we going to actually do about it? And today we have welcomed Joe Clement back to the show to discuss some solutions for parents. Welcome, Joe.

B

Thank you. Great to be here. Appreciate you having me.

A

I am so glad that we've been able to do this little mini series here because it has been a long time for, for those who haven't listened to the first part of this yet, Joe and I have known each other for over 10 years and that time really does flash by. But in the very beginning of the days when we were all meeting each other and there was a, a number of us in this space early on that were sounding the alarm and we all kind of found each other and started writing books about it. And Joe's book, Screen Schooled became one of our very, very favorites. This was, this book was and still is one of the best, most simple, compelling ways for parents and even kids, you know, but of course, other teachers to understand what's happening in the world of screens when it comes to the classroom. Last week we talked a little bit about some of the problems in the classroom with the attention problems and the multitasking. And I love, Joe, what you brought up about the social disconnection that is happening or not happening, actually, that awkwardness. But just for the sake of new people joining us, give us a little bit of a background of your story before we get started.

B

Sure. I've been public school high school teacher for 32 years and I had no intention during that time of getting into any sort of screen whatever activism.

A

Yeah.

B

Was not, was not on the life plan radar at all. And my career was going along just, just dandy. And it was around year, I don't know, 18, 19, 20, somewhere in there, the, the2014 range maybe when things were changing in the, in the classroom. And the, I mean I, I kind of link it back. I think it lines up pretty nicely. The, the iPhone came out in 07. By 2010, 11, it was pretty ubiquitous for young people. And certainly by the time you get into that 2000 teens era, things had changed. Kids were, were just very different. And so we, that's when Matt Miles, my co author, who's a teacher at my school also, that's when we decided we had to do something because. And again we didn't go in with an agenda. We just were trying to figure out what was going on with kids. And everything we read was about how kids are really struggling with their, their ability to regulate their screen use.

A

Yeah, well, we really needed it back then because you were, you were just revealing sort of the behind the scenes story of what was happening during the school day. And that's what's so wonderful about your book because most parents are not sitting in the classroom and we don'. Understand what's happening when our kids go to school. And it was so helpful to get your perspective on that. And you know, last time we talked about what's happening to kids and so today I want to talk with you about what parents can actually do because they feel stuck and especially now they're, they're educated, they're reading, they're intelligent, they're looking at the news, they're, they're hearing all these stories about hey, my kid isn't learning. You know, the grades aren't good. Across the whole country. All this tech ed, tech stuff really hasn't done what it would promise to do, but they feel very stuck and they, they feel like they're negotiating now with this pressure, you know, between what their kids want, what the school tried and failed and yeah, they're having to step in and be the leader. So yes. How do they do that? How do they shift from, okay, we allowed all this stuff at home, everything was allowed in school. How does a parent do that? Do you have any thoughts on that?

B

Oh yeah, the, it was same for me. I mean I was a, I mean I am a parent of a, an 11 year old daughter, but I have two older sons, 27 and 23. And I remember this is before I Wrote the book or anything or. It was right around the time when I was kind of waking up to the whole issue. My older son, I, I had, you know, decided I'd watched the way my older son really liked the, this computer. We had one computer in the house and he really liked this one game, it's called Spore. Like you, you started out as a paramecium or something and then you tried to grow into whatever sin it became a city or a universe or whatever. And he really had trouble stopping. And so I set a limit on just the computer use in general for the kids at 45 minutes a day was going to be all they got. And so in the first part of their school career, that was it. And then as, especially as the older one, once he got into middle school and high school, he would go, okay, that's my 45 minutes. But I got to stay on the computer because I have to do my homework. And I went, so as a parent, you this unattractive choice. Do I? I mean, obviously the first thing is, well, you got to do your homework first. You can't do before you do your, your play time. But what hit me was now, wait a minute, the school is somehow dictating what I'm doing in my house. Like the school is telling me that my 45 minute screen time limit per day was no good. You have to use a computer, you have to turn things in online, you have to read this thing, you have to be, you want to order your cap and gown, you have to have an Instagram, you want to do this, you got to have, you got to have Snapchat, you got to go on the website to whatever. I mean, yeah, all these things. The student facing communication, the student facing requirements were onerous. And as a parent, like when you say I'm, this is where we are in our house, it just is, it just is not right that the school can come in and say, oh, too bad parent, you're going to have to do what we tell you to do.

A

Yeah.

B

So I mean, there's really no other issue where you would accept that. I mean, it just kind of roll over. So that's the first thing is I think parents need to understand how much power they have in this and how much they can push back and should be pushing back. I mean, really anytime. I mean, I don't want get into too many other issues, but I mean, when the school is telling you, hey, when you're at home with your family and the door is closed and it's whatever the School is going to tell you how to do your thing. The answer's got to be no.

A

Yeah, yeah.

B

And screens are, are the really the battleground that I think are right now is the most central thing because we're talking about the battle for our kids brains.

A

Yeah.

B

That you know, your, your tools so brilliantly explain to parents and kids what's happening to their brains. But when we, yeah. If you're a parent out there and you've got concerns, you're right to be concerned.

A

Yeah.

B

And the good news is you have, you have power and we got to use it as a group.

A

Yeah. We got to get our power back. And the way we explain it over here at Screenstrong, as you know, is we talk to parents about being a coach and they got to really coach their kids and they got to treat their family like it's a team and you know, take that ownership of your, your leadership back instead of. Right. You know, what we've done is we've kind of given all the authority over to the screens and, and honestly it's kind of like having. It's kind of like what we've done is we've allowed the opposing coach to come coach our team. Like it's a really bad idea. And so we've got to get our, our leadership back. And so what are some things that you think really can make a practical difference? You know, again, if you, if you're sitting, got some parents in front of you in your office and they're telling you, yeah, we're struggling with this, we know we need to do something. What are some things that they can do immediately at home? Like I, I think this idea of trying to get your homework done on a screen is so hard. But what we, I mean, because in our house we had to actually I had to just sit down and, and sit with them while they did that screen homework because I knew it was going to happen.

B

But you're correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, so the, the first thing is I think to understand I mentioned this at the end of the last episode, but it, it bears repeating that any. Again, I've been teaching a long time. The, the big changes that I've seen in education have really been parent driven and again, things like school start time or boundary questions, you know, who's going to go to what school, seven period day versus a block scheduling day and, and so on. Like the, the big changes, the big conversations happen because parents demand it. And often it's a small group of committed parents that just says enough about a. You know a particular issue or this is what we want or this is what we demand or whatever. And, and the, it's a kind of an interesting parallel to look at the, the, the start time situation. There are parents who just informed themselves and said look at the science and we need, we demand a change and so on and so forth. And many schools have, have, have made changes. I mean, some of them better than others. I mean, boy, if you're gonna look at the science, look at the science of learning and interacting and what happens to brains when kids are just marinated in, you know, screen use all day long and then, and then requirement by school in the, in the afternoon also. So there's a, you know, there's a list of demands. I mean, you know, I don't want to call it a manifesto, but there's a, you know, you can, as a group of parents make certain, I would say extremely common sense demands as a group, but also for your kid. And the, you know, the first thing is I just want to opt my kid out. I want to opt my kid out of one to one. I want to opt my kid out of online textbooks. I want a hard copy textbook for every class. I want, I want no requirement to turn things in online. I want no requirement that my kid needs to have social media. You know, I'm opting my kid out at, at every possible turn. So there are things you can do individually and, and schools. I will tell you right now, I know from experience, even to someone who works in the schools, you know, where my kids go, they push back. You know, they, well, no, you can't really do that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And your answer has to be, well, yep, I sure can. There are, there are a lot of resources. Fairplay is a, has a, has a treasure trove of resources for parents who want to opt out and write letters to the editor, write letters to their school board. There are templates out there where you can, you don't have to invent, reinvent the wheel. There's a lot of stuff that a lot of us have already done that we've, that's available for everybody to use. But there are, you know, a variety of things that parents can and should be demanding.

A

I love that and I love that this whole phone free movement is actually a thing that you can talk about because back five, 10 years ago when I was going through all this with my kids and we had a small group of parents and we went in with your book and we went in with the little studies and we had studies Then, of course, not as many as we have today. And we got so much pushback. They just kept pushing and pushing and pushing, and of course, nothing changed. And that was so frustrating. But today, you and I are both seeing that now, this is not. You're not going to get the same pushback you're. Because the schools know that this is a thing that has kind of gone haywire. And I, I love that you're encouraging parents to do that. I, I think that schools are actually figuring out that, hey, things are kind of getting better when, when we don't have all the funds. And so if a parent is wanting to opt out of these other screen, you know, devices, that's where we're headed. I really believe that's where we're headed. We're working with South Carolina right now. They're actually adopting our curriculum in the whole state. And we're so excited. We're working on all these initiatives. We're, we're working on some final deadlines for that. So. But it's coming in. And I believe that they are headed in that direction, like many other states where they're going to just start eliminating screens in general from a classroom. What do you think about that and what do you think that's going to do? What. Well, what's the downside?

B

I mean, there's no real downside if we do it, you know, thoughtfully and correctly in the, in the same way that, like a laptop or a. I mean, I'll limit it to. Laptops can be a good tool if it's used for a targeted purpose, you know, intentionally. When it, when there's no other tool that will do the same job. Like, you know, if your kid's going to learn. You have a high school kid and they're, they're in a computer science class and they're learning how to, you know, program in Python. Well, obviously, they're going to need a laptop in order to do that. So there's a case where it makes sense for a classroom to be set up with, you know, computers for kids to, you know, to work in, because that is what we're doing. And, you know, in the disciplines I teach economics and government. And so if you know, why one of my kids doing research on a bill, we were doing a model Congress, and so they had to find other bills that are like their bill that Congress has actually worked on or whatever. I can say, you know, if I have a laptop cart in my room, for instance, I can say, all right, everybody, here's, here's what you're going to be doing for the next 20 minutes. I need you to find three bills, go get a laptop, get back to your desk. Here are the three things you're supposed to do in the next 20 minutes. And then at the end of the 20 minutes, close the laptop, put it back in the cart. Let's talk about what we found.

A

Love it.

B

It's a tool for a target. You know, first of all, purpose and a specific limited period of time. And then what the, the messaging is so important in this because what's the message? Right now the message is, oh, here's a kindergartner, here's an iPad. Because you can't be in school, you can't learn anything unless you have a screen in front of you. Here's your laptop. You know, older kids, you gotta have this if you're gonna learn. Well, I mean, it's just utter nonsense, first of all. And second of all, as the teacher, it really devalues what happens between teacher and student because the student gets the message that, oh, this is the thing that does the teaching. That old person over there is just kind of there, I guess, to help me when my computer crashes or something. And this, and the, the way it would work is if we, you know, want to leverage the technology for the good it can possibly do, then it has to be, first of all under control of the teacher if it's going to be in the school at all. Now if you look at some of the most exclusive private schools in the world, most of them are zero tech. And you got to ask yourself, what are the, what are the wealthiest among us know that the, you know, that the rest don't. So separate conversation. But yeah, if you have, in just a regular school now that we have this one to one stuff, then we have enough computers for every kid to have one. All right, Stick them all in a corner of the classroom on a cart. Teacher controls them, says when you have access to it and when you don't. And then the message is, oh, okay, now I understand. That's a tool that I'm going to use for this job for 20 minutes and then I put it back in the same way it would be. I teach economics. I have whiteboards on their desk and they draw things and they show me, you know, what they drew or whatever. Yeah, we don't always use the whiteboards. I tell them to get them out when it's time to, hey, here's a graph. Practice drawing it. Show me what you did. And I don't need them to have the whiteboard all class long. Because it's not. It's not necessary all class long. In the same way a laptop isn't necessary all class long. You're teaching Shakespeare. I mean, why do you need it doesn't need a laptop.

A

No.

B

And so that's it. To me, it's just a reframing of what is the thing for and how are we administering. Like, it's. It's being done so badly right now, but the. The change to do it right is not a. It's not massive. Like, we're not. This isn't a big ask.

A

Yeah. I love what you're saying about the carts, because that's when some of my older kids went through school. That's what they had. And it really wasn't a problem. I mean, every random now and then there would be some issue with some kid doing something stupid on the laptop, but it really wasn't because. Because you just hit on it. So clearly the teacher was still in charge of it. And. Yeah, and I'm sure that there are times when you have to tell some kid to put the laptop up. Right? You know, I mean, if they're doing something they shouldn't be doing. But it also, the other thing it does, it makes the parents job so much easier. Because what that does is it. It kind of conditions the child to be like, okay, well, when I'm doing homework, I'm going to get this laptop and I'm gonna do the thing and I'm gonna put it back. And if you're not allowed to shop on Amazon and watch, you know, YouTube movies and whatever at school, then you. Your brain starts to learn. Okay, I'm here to learn. I'm here to think. I'm here to process this information. I'm gonna do this, you know, when my teacher says it's okay, and then I'm gonna put it back. That is such a good discipline. And that would be so wonderful if we would all go back to that. I think that would just be amazing. That would wipe out most of the problems. So if you're a parent listening, don't tell your school to get rid of all screens forever and ever. Amen. There are certain times and things where, you know, where they could use a screen for something. But, you know, like, we used to have computer labs back years ago where you go to the computer lab and you would do your thing and then you would come back. We're not dissing the whole, you know, tool that it is. And I feel like they.

B

But that's that's it. It's a, it's a tool. And somehow the message got through that. It's, it was the, it was an end in and of itself.

A

Yeah.

B

Rather than a means to an end, rather than a tool to help a kid's educational journey, it became this indispensable, unalloyed good you must have at all times for some reason. And there's nothing else like that. I mean it's, that's a, it was a weird thing to, to think and a weird thing to inflict on children. And so a laptop cart would take care of the issue or really go a long way to taking care of the issue during the school day. But the, the one thing outside of the school day that I think would really help parents a lot is for schools to go back to paper, like hard copy textbooks. Like we can't. When a kid, I mean, you know, you gotta feel bad for a kid when they say, well, I've gotta read chapter five and chapter five, guess what? It's only online. That's, that's just, that's a non starter. Like we, we have to, I mean the research, first of all, the research is very clear. We all understand things and, and read more deeply and retain much better when you physically can touch the pages and read and there's not things popping up distracting you and so on. So we gotta get back to that. But that also helps the parent not have to get so involved in, well, what are you doing online? How long are you going to be doing your homework? And blah, blah, blah. If the homework is just like it was when we were all in school. It's a book. Here's a notebook. I'm going to take some notes or I'm going to answer some questions or I'm going to do what I need to do, just do my reading. It can't be, can't be digital.

A

I was talking to my husband last night about this. This is so interesting you're bringing this up right now because we were just talking about years ago, one of the things that I predicted, I guess was that poor kids were going to get laptops and rich kids were going to get tutors because. And this is kind of what's happening where we're starting to realize that if you really want to do school well, you're gonna get a tutor because it's not happening, you know, on the laptop. And a lot of schools don't even have the, the print textbooks anymore. And so you can, you can actually go online and find them on eBay or whatever you can find, like the math book or the history book or whatever. But I think that parents should have

B

to do that, you know, like that, that, that's a, that's a lousy thing to ask to expect of a, a parent. Like, that should be the, that should be the, the default, should be the paper textbook, you know, and if a parent wanted to opt into some sort of online thing on their own, because that's worked for them, then maybe. But the school should default to the paper. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt.

A

And I just think it's awful to think that we live in a world where, you know, most kids in affluent situations, you know, their parents have to pay for tutors because they're not. And it's just the, the world we live in right now because they're not learning it deeply the first time. They're not learning how to learn. They're not learning how to get through that awkward middle stage of that learning process where you're frustrated. You know, they have to work through that when they're on a screen. As you know, I'm preaching to the choir here. But when you're on a screen and you're in 8th grade or 9th grade or 10th grade and you're trying to do a math problem and you don't get it, what's going to happen is you're going to get frustrated and you're going to go play a video game and then, you know, you're not going to ever figure out the math problem. And then your mom is cooking dinner and she thinks you're doing your homework. What do you recommend? Let's talk about that just for a second here. What do you recommend for parents that are listening right now? What should they do about homework? Because that's what got us in trouble with my oldest son. He kept telling me he was doing homework and that's how he started his gaming addiction. So, because I kept thinking he was doing homework and it was always the default that he could say, well, mom, I'm doing my homework. You know, what do you recommend? What do you, do you recommend anything to parents on that? Exactly how to handle homework at home?

B

Well, the first thing is that, you know, I was in the exact same situation. That's what I was talking about earlier. But the, the, you know, I would say there's a short term and a long term approach. The, the long term approach is we have to get schools to stop requiring. I mean, first of all, they have to have paper textbooks. And so they had. Get all the, get all the homework offline, you can't. The, the idea that a school can dictate to a family your kid is going to have to go home and get on the computer is just ludicrous. So that's a, that's a long term trajectory to aim toward. In the short term, the. I mean, I would say this is just a general good principle. Screens cannot be in a kid's bedroom really ever. Whether it's a phone or a laptop or whatever. I mean, in order to get the most you can out of an impossible situation, which is what schools are often putting families in and putting kids in is these impossible situations in order to get the most out of it, you have the computer in a central location where mom or dad's cooking dinner or doing the dishes or whatever it is they're doing and you have a sight line to the screen. Not the kids got the computer turned toward the wall, but you can see it as you're over at the sink or whatever and they're at the kitchen table. You know, however it is, you know, however, however it works for you so that the kid knows that. I mean it's not going to be fun first of all for the kids. So they're not going to want to sit there and you know, mom or dad, they know you're looking over their shoulder the whole time. That's.

A

Yeah.

B

If you, anything you can do to kind of make it less exciting, like where the kid gets to take the device into their bedroom and then, oh man, like, I mean, I could do anything here. And then when mom shows up, it's just alt, tab and boop. Oh, look, it is geometry. So, so the, the, the big thing for me is screens are never in a bedroom. All the homework is done at some sort of centralized location where everybody can see what everybody else is doing. I would do the same thing with phones, like have a charging station and that just becomes the thing. When you come in the door, it's not on you. It's just simply at, you know, if there's a table or something near the door, the, near whatever the nearest outlet is, all the chargers are hanging there. You can make it look nicer. It doesn't always look nice that way. But you know, every, and everybody's, everybody is charging at the same time. And you. So, you know, as the parent, 1, 2, 3, 4. Oh, we're missing one of the phones here. And where is that? You know, oh geez, it's mine. You know, and they. Now I gotta remind myself to go know, put it up There the. But. So those are, to me, the big things. I mean, principle number one is if just a screen can. I mean, that's a recipe for disaster. A screen in a. In a kid's bed. But, you know, and. And I would say you've got, you know, ask the kid. If you really want to get involved, ask the kid, what is it you have to do for homework tonight? Give me, you know, give me the list and then kind of think about it yourself and talk to the kid about it. Or how long we imagine this is going to take. I don't know. I think it'll take an hour and a half. All right, you got an hour and a half, buddy. I mean, you know, I mean, obviously they want to put, you know, have your kid just do lousy work just in order to get it done. But you want to let them know that you understand. I know you're not, you know, writing War and Peace over there.

A

Yeah.

B

You know, I know you've got a limited number of things to do. You've got to answer five questions for English and you've got to do this one reflection for history class or whatever, have an idea of how much they're being asked. And. And over time, homework has been kind of de. Emphasized. So most of the time it's, you know, you're not going to be looking at, well, I've got seven hours of homework tonight.

A

Right.

B

I mean, it can take seven hours if you've. If you're trying to flip back and forth between Netflix and video games and whatever else. But it. Generally speaking, that's not a thing.

A

It is pretty amazing how quickly they can do their homework when mom and dad are sitting there and they're. Some accountability. Right. And I. When you were talking, one of the practical tips that I'll offer up for parents is that always read. I have a lot of books that I read, and I have a book at all times kind of with me. And so I would use that time to read my book. I would do the dishes or whatever I was doing, or most of the time I made them do the dishes because that's another thing. But. But when they sat down to do their homework, I would just get my book and read and I would just be there. And you're right, I didn't want to see the front of their head in the back of the computer. I want to see the back of their head in the screen. And it was just shocking how quickly that homework could be done. And then we would just close the lid and they would have to go put it in their backpack like it couldn't even sit because there's something weird about these laptops. They, they have legs and they walk and they open up on their own and all those things. So we tried to treat it like you, you said in the classroom, if you have a laptop cart, you know, you take it out, you use it for what you need it. But parents, yeah, it's a tool. And parents, I tell you that it's on you. It's on you. You can't expect your kids to do this and you can't expect the teachers to not give homework. So, you know, it is kind of part of this digital age that we live in. It's one of the jobs, it's one of those other jobs that we have, um, as a parent. So let's, let's start to, got to start to wrap up, but I want to talk with you a second about limits and about resetting your, your child. So if you're a parent now, you know, listening to all this and they're thinking, well, I can't do all this and I can't manage all this. You know, limits rarely work on big problems. And that's what we had found over here. It's screen strong. What is your thought? That, I mean, do you ever recommend to a parent to, hey, just reverse the problem by getting rid of the phone? Is that a thing that you would recommend?

B

I mean, you know, most, most of us don't want to hear that. But the, the, the problem that I think we've put on kids, really on adults too, but especially children, is these are not device. We're talking about a phone or even a laptop or an iPad or something, or even a smartwatch. They're not devices that are made to be used effectively and responsibly. They're made to be used compulsively and addictively. And so when we do it, you know, I look back at the, you know, the way I was, I was naive in the beginning, thought, well, I'll just set a 45 minute limit and you know, that'll be it. And this was before, you know, the, the real, a lot of the real nasty persuasive design had gotten into the games and apps and stuff. They're not, they're not. Kids aren't wired to make great decisions. They don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. And you take that and then you add it to a device and an app or website or whatever that is built on the principles of persuasive design to keep kids as, as ensnared as possible. You know, the, they call it the attention economy for a reason. How, you know, how long can I keep these eyeballs on this screen? You know, it. I think it's, it's a very difficult thing to say. Well, we'll just set a limit of blah, blah, blah without, you know, I mean, if you're, that's a fight, you're gonna. Like you said, it's, it is on the parent. A lot of this. It's, it's very unfortunate, but the, the schools, society and industry have made it very difficult for parents to get their arms around this. But you either have to really honestly decide, I'm going to stick to these limits and I don't care what kind of fights we get in, or just remove it all and just say, we're, we're done. We're just not doing this anymore. Victoria Dunkley's book reset your child's brain is great on that whole path because, I mean, there, there comes a time for sure when it's just we can't do it. We, we recognize this is a, this is a kid. We just can't use it responsibly. There's, there's no way this is going to work out. And I'm not sacrificing my kid's brain so that we don't have to have unpleasant conversations. So I'm just going to do it. And I, so I would recommend book for anybody who wants to go down that road.

A

I think more and more people are going down that road. I think, you know, they've tried it. They're sick of it. They're sick of the arguments. I can promise you this. When, when you get rid of the phones, when your kids don't have social media, when they're not on gaming and phones and you have all that distraction, your life is so much better. It's like happier. You're. I mean. Cause that's what happened with my younger boys. We said, forget it, we're not doing this. And it was just that I thought it would be like hard. Like I thought we'd argue about all the time. We did not when. And we weren't arguing about screen time because it just wasn't a thing because we just didn't have it. And today they, they are in college. They're doing fine. They're doing just fine on their screens. And you know what's really interesting? Just yesterday, my daughter, she's older now, of course, out of college, in the workforce and all that kind of thing. And she came for dinner, and this literally happened less than 24 hours ago. Okay, I. I'm not making any of this up. She said, mom, I gotta give you my new phone number because I got a flip phone. I'm leaving my old number with my smartphone, and that's gonna be my work phone. And I'm leaving that at work because I'm sick of it. I am so sick of it. And so she bought herself a flip phone.

B

I'm like, great.

A

Oh, my goodness. And I think part of it is because she grew up without all the social media, you know, because we didn't do that. And I thought, wow, good for her. And I think that there's a trend. I think we're all exhausted, and I'm hearing more and more people getting these flip phones. The adults are getting the.

B

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And there are, you know, and I. I feel like. So my daughter is the only one of her. Her friends that has no, you know, didn't, you know, didn't have an iPad, didn't have a phone, didn't have a this and that.

A

Yeah.

B

And I do feel for. For young kids, and this is something I think parents ought to. Ought to consider is, you know, like, when we were growing up, you had the one phone in the house. It was a landline. You know, if you were lucky, it had a real long cord so you could, you know, take it to the next room or whatever. But that was how you made plans, right? You'd call your friends, hey, let's go to the movie, or I'll meet you at the pool, or whatever. So when you take that away, like, so many houses don't have landlines anymore. And even if they do, kids are. For whatever reason, they've got weird about. They've gotten weird about calling. Yeah, you do it. I have. Very sympathetic to when parents are, you know, they're like, well, how is my kids supposed to meet up with their friends? How are they supposed to be involved just in conversations when kids have these text groups, et cetera? And the, you know, the. I don't. I'm not advocating one way or the other, and I'm not. I certainly don't get paid by any particular organization. But there are phones, obviously, that only text and call.

A

Yes.

B

And so if that's a decision you make as a family, then that's really just a device that you. We all used to have in the house. I mean, obviously, our phones weren't broke, didn't text. But it's the same principle. I only can use this thing. This is really not very interesting. It's for calling my friends to make plans or texting them to make plans or whatever. And if, if a family decides that's the way to go, then I'm. That to me is the safest way to do it. Just like your daughter discovered on her own, which is awesome.

A

Well, and growing up, you know, we, we actually had one phone for a while like you're talking about in the house. And it, it was a flip phone and it lived in the kitchen. And this is a great idea to get one of these top tech phones or even a regular flip phone, put it in the kitchen. That can be the kid phone, but it stays in the kitchen and they only need it like if, if they needed to go babysit or something. Yeah, maybe you gotta take it, you know, tonight. But then it, it's not their phone. That is right. That is the problem is that they got the device, you know, on their body at all times. Like that's crazy. You can still get the benefit like you said before, as a tool. So that's a really good practical tip is to get a non data phone, put it in your kitchen, keep it charged in there and it stays in the kitchen. They can go in there if they need to make a call, if they need to do a text, if they need to do something. But it's not their phone. It belongs to the family. It is the family phone that works really well. And I think we should always start with that before we go from 0 to 60 from nothing. Smartphone. I think it's a really good, bad idea. Really bad idea with kids. You've given us so many things to think about today. I'm so glad that we had you back on here to straighten all these problems out. But let's, let's end. We, we gotta wrap up. But can you like, can you just give us one thing? Like can you wrap up all your knowledge to one little advice for parents? But if you could just tell all the parents out there, listening, you know, just one thing to kind of stop this conflict in your home, what would it, what would it be? What, what advice and encouragement can you give to parents?

B

Well, two things. I mean if we're talking about in. Well, it's really same piece of advice is, is the agency that, that parents have. And first of all, you know, we have to remember even, you know, when a parent has given a phone to a kid and they realize maybe that was a mistake, the phone almost always still belongs to the parent.

A

Yeah.

B

So this is, this is that issue of our time where the parents have to lead and so they have to lead at home and say, this is. I mean, set your principles wherever they are. And we, you know, we're all, you know, on a spectrum, kind of all, all over the place, but we can all be on the same team. And as long as we recognize that we're the ones that are in charge of whether it's the device or, you know, the computer, phone, whatever we have to be talking about in the, in our homes. But when it comes to schools in particular, and that's really more, you know, why my passion at this point is to please don't give up your power as a parent. And it doesn't take a ton. Like, you don't have to find 10,000 other parents who think the same way. You get 6, 8, 10 other parents who are just willing to be those people who make the phone calls, send the emails, show up at school board meetings, show the research. I mean, you don't. This isn't even. You don't have to invent anything. Just, Just show the truth, shine the light on the real situation and, and use the power that we have to, to. Because ultimately, what are we talking about? We're talking about saving kids, right? We're talking about making the world a better place for our children, which means the world's a better place moving forward. And, man, we can't give up that power that we have.

A

Thank you. That is great. Parents, don't. Don't give up your power. And don't, don't use it the wrong way. Use it the right way to get this thing done. I love that you said that. We need to hear that. I think sometimes parents just feel like, you know, they're going to throw the towel in because it's too big. It's just the interview is so big, but you can do it in a way that. And I always, I always say when you go to talk to your teacher, your principal, your superintendent, be nice. Be really nice. And absolutely, there's a way that you can do it that is not hateful and emotional. You can, you can take, take them the screen schooled book, right?

B

And there you go.

A

Give them a few pages to read

B

and say, highlight some stuff.

A

Yeah. Or just. Yeah, highlight some stuff.

B

Hey, I'd like you to. I'd like you to know that, you know, it sounds like you guys are really doing this thing, but I'd like you to know what the research says about that. Just, you know, here Here it is. If you'd like to see it and then follow up, get a chance to look at that study that I sent you because it's really important and then

A

you as a parent can ask them, how can I help you? Like I, I know this is a real thing right now and you must be getting a lot of pushback on it. What can I do to help? I want to be part of this.

B

Yes.

A

Solution and you want to all be on the same team. Don't go in there angry and don't go in, you know, just mad. You, you have to realize it's going to take a minute. It, it took a long time to get us in this mess and you know, it's not going to take a year to get out of it. It's going to take a little bit longer than that. But one, one of the other things, I know that you, you agree on this too. You have to just continue to educate your kids because. Yes, educate our kids. And, and again, one of the reasons why we did the, the kids Brains and screens, this is the middle school book and then we have the, the younger one for the elementary is we want parents to be able to have the right language and the right words. And instead of getting emotional and all mad, we're going to talk about your frontal cortex and we're going to talk about the dopamine and we're going to talk about that limbic center in your brain and in. It's really cool when kids learn some facts and they can actually have the vocabulary around it because the conversations and all. And you see that with education in general, if you don't have the right language, it's not going to work. And so I just feel like even as a parent that I'll add to what you're saying, you can go into that meeting with some practical, you know, help and you can say like even for the adventure book, for this third grade book, it comes with an activity book and the way it's deployed in the school is through Super Brain Week. So it's a one week program. It's really easy to do. And as a parent you can even get corporation to pay for it if you know they wanted to and kind of be a sponsor of it or you know, a lot of times there's funds in the budget at school for certain curriculum projects or special projects or there's so many ways to handle it. But I think that if you go in with a solution and with some positive energy, it really, really helps. So like, so glad you got to come talk to us, Joe, because you're just like, we're going to send you back to the front lines now. You got to go back to school.

B

Yep. Back tomorrow. Yes. And be.

A

I don't know how you know, so I don't know.

B

I'm really glad, really glad you you thought to talk because. Yeah, it's a good conversation. I love everything you're doing and I really appreciate the opportunity.

A

We love our teachers. Thank you so much for joining us and we will have you back. I know we need to have you back and talk about AI and all that other stuff, but.

B

Oh, man. Yeah.

A

So thankful that we had some time to. To get this parade with you today. Thank you.

B

Thank you.

A

So I hope this episode has helped encourage you to get a handle not only on the reasons why maybe your kids aren't thriving in school, but on just some of the practical things you can do. And we've heard from Joe. He's a real teacher who's out there telling you it's okay to call your school. So we're going to be nice and we're going to do it in a really professional way. But please take his advice, parents, and get your power back and then talk to your school about ordering the adventures of super brain and the kids brains and screens for the middle school. This is where we're headed. We've got to educate our kids about all these addictions. And you know what, even if we get the screen thing figured out, this is really good information them for them to know just about life in general, about how their development works and how their brain works. So we are so thankful that Joe got to join us today. Please share this episode with your friends and share it with other teachers because I think teachers kind of sometimes feel like they're alone too. So you want to share this with your teachers. Remember, we've got your back over here at Screenstrong and we're here to help you have everything you need to remove the screen conflict from your home. So until next time, stand up for your kids, stand out from the crowd and stay strong.