Elise Hu

Happy Sunday, y'. All. Elise Hu here. Today we're bringing you a Sunday pick where we share an episode of another podcast from ted, handpicked by us for you. What do radio personality Ira Glass, New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani, and TED podcast host Chris Duffy have in common? They all have practiced an unexpected skill that makes them more human improv comedy. And they all learned it from master improv teacher Rick Andrews. On this episode of how to Be a Better Human, Rick joins host Chris to discuss the life lessons they learned from giving up control and practicing how to yes. And in conversations. They also modeled improv games such as Alibi 7 Things, fortunately and unfortunately and More so you can sprinkle in some improvisational silliness to build better communication and trust in your work and personal life. How to Be a Better Human looks in unexpected places for new ways to improve and show up for one another. If you want to hear more insights like this, listen to how to Be a Better Human wherever you get your podcasts. Learn all about Ted's podcasts at podcasts.ted.com.

Chris Duffy

This is how to Be a Better Human. I'm your host Chris Duffy, and one of my favorite things in the entire world is improv comedy. I know that is very much not cool and hip to say that one of my favorite things in the entire universe is adults playing make believe together, but it is true. I absolutely love it. And I think that one of the things that I love the most about it, whether it's watching it or performing it myself, is that good improv skills, in my opinion, are the same as good people skills. How do you listen really closely? How do you make other people look good? How do you deal with unexpected situations? How do you remember something that is fun and playful and bring it back later on? They're all skills that are kind of basic to improv, but they're also skills that make people the kinds of people that I want to spend time with, the kinds of people that I want to be around. And today's guest, Rick Andrews, is an incredible improviser. He is very much someone who I want to spend time with. But more than just being a great performer, Rick is an amazing teacher. He has been teaching for years. He's taught so, so, so many people. And what he's learned is that we can all get better at playing, at improvising and making our lives funnier, more exciting, and more of an all around good time. We're gonna talk so much more about how to do that. But first we're gonna take a quick break for a few words from our sponsors.

Elise Hu

This episode is brought to you by Dell. Back to school starts now. Get long lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core. So you can work from anywhere now starting at $699 with exclusive student pricing starting at 599. And it's lightweight, portable and packed with enough processing power to make multitasking a breeze. So say goodbye to distractions and hello to more free time because you finished your work faster, complete your setup with savings on select monitors and more. Must have electronics and accessories, limited time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you@dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card puts the power of titanium in the palm of your hand. What does that mean? It means the power to earn unlimited daily cash back on your purchases every day. It means a materially different credit card accepted anywhere in the world. MasterCard is accepted. Ditch the plastic upgrade to titanium. Apply in the wallet app on iPhone today subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more@applecard.com this episode is sponsored by Kohler Smart Toilets. The objects we interact with most are often the ones we notice least. But what if the most overlooked space in your home could be the most considered? Kohler Smart Toilet challenges that assumption. Their Vail Smart Toilet is a sculptural silhouette that isn't just intentional, it's a philosophy that design changes everything. The kohlervale Smart Toilet is sleek with a rounded shape that's more like architecture than just plumbing. And it goes beyond looks. The touchscreen controls and customizable cleansing features offer a level of comfort and cleanliness that exceeds expectations. It's all about elevating those ordinary daily rituals into something extraordinary through thoughtful design. Kohler has been pushing these boundaries for over 150 years, mastering that balance of stunning form and high performance function. That's a long time to get it right and it shows in every detail. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets. Find out more@kohler.com

Chris Duffy

and we are back. Today we are talking about improv with Rick Andrews.

Rick Andrews

Hi, my name is Rick Andrews. I teach and perform improvisation.

Chris Duffy

So Rick, you've been performing and teaching for a really long time and I have been a fan of your work for a really long time from the first time I saw you. And every time I see you, I'm always struck by what a talented performer you are. But I also am struck by the fact that your real passion, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't actually about being on stage and getting the attention for yourself. It's really about teaching and sharing improvisation with others.

Rick Andrews

Yeah, I really enjoy performing and I find that very satisfying. But it feels like, I don't know, it's like a sugar rush a little bit that kind of fades quickly. And I feel like teaching and watching people get excited and fall in love with something that you are excited about feels really meaningful in a nice way. And part of what is nice about improv is that, I don't know, it's not just about being funny. So I think if it was just kind of like, I'll teach you how to be funny, I don't know that I would feel deeply passionate about. I think it's more about the sense of presence and creativity and being playful and being less self judgmental. I think a lot of those are things that help people not like freak out all day long. Certainly helped me that way. So it feels like there's something meaningful that's being delivered in the, almost by accident, in the act of like learning how to improvise well.

Chris Duffy

So for people who don't, aren't already familiar with your work, I mean, you're too humble to fully brag for yourself. But I will just say, from my perspective, you are truly regarded as like one of the single greatest improv teachers in the world. And you have taught everyone from. You've taught children, you've taught senior citizens, you've taught people in big corporations, you've taught Ira Glass from this American Life. You've taught Zoran Mavdani, the mayor of New York before he was the mayor. So you've really like taught this huge range of people over many, many years. What do you think the biggest thing that a regular person, someone who is not interested in being a comedy professional gets out of learning improv?

Rick Andrews

I think managing uncertainty improv is making up an idea, a scene, a story on the fly. Right. And improv, the inherent nature of that is that you cannot be in control of where it's going to go. And I think people's brains do not like change and that kind of disruptive feeling. And so there's this protective cognitive shell that we throw around where we lock into ideas or we kind of disconnect from what's actually going on. And I think it's not that improv makes you better at knowing what's going to happen. I think if you watch really good Improvises. It kind of seems like they know where it's going, but you don't develop this kind of clairvoyance. You instead just get very comfortable not knowing what's going to happen and managing uncertainty. But the extra anxiety on top of it of managing that uncertainty, of all the stuff that I can't control, I think becomes. You don't turn it off entirely, but that voice gets quieter. I think I've noticed that it's kind of not possible to be bored if you're hanging out with three or four improvisers. It's not really. Because if nothing's happening, well, it's not really possible. You're sitting at the airport terminal and there's a delay. Instead of people just complaining all the time, I feel like people just look around a little bit and they're like, hey, look at how that guy walks. That's interesting. That sign doesn't make any sense. Why do they call it Hudson News? Whatever. There's just a kind of curiosity about the present moment that I think does translate off of that stage a little bit.

Chris Duffy

The way that we are talking right now is actually kind of a great illustration of what building the muscles of improvisation have allowed you to do. Because we are talking about, like, not around the day that you are moving across continents, but literally, like, you are doing this interview, and then in several hours, you will leave for the airport to move from the United States to Europe. And you seem so unbothered by that. The fact that we're, like, talking now and then you're gonna have to leave to the airport and bring your family to an entirely new continent. I would be. Even though I have studied improv, too, I would be, like, pouring sweat and so stressed. And yet you seem remarkably unstressed about the fact that you're about to do a transcontinental move.

Rick Andrews

I might be, like, missing a section of my brain, you know, But I do think that, like, I taught all my classes yesterday. Like, Sunday is a day that I teach and perform, and. And my classes were like, oh, when are you moving? And I was like, tomorrow. And they were all like, why are you here?

Chris Duffy

Yeah.

Rick Andrews

Yes.

Chris Duffy

I was like, exactly right.

Rick Andrews

I, like, didn't understand the question, the reaction. I was like, I teach on Sundays. This is the. Our last class. You know, I feel like improv is, like. I've heard from people. It's like, it helps on dates and job interviews or whatever. Not that that's, like, the purpose of it, you know, or like, how, like, why you should do It. But it is one of those things where anything where you're in this situation where you feel a little nervous, you don't know how it's going to go. Someone might ask a question you weren't expecting. It's a lot of just managing that moment a little bit. And I think you're doing that through an enhanced set of listening skills a little bit. Just paying attention, being in the moment, noticing stuff. But also I think it builds self confidence in a more genuine way. It's not about, I don't know, pretending to be this confident person. It's like improv is a lot of, as I'm sure you felt, learning it and getting really good at it. It's like you are trying your hand at it and not great at it at first, but you're doing this context where people are building off of every idea you say, no matter how bad it is, and people support you. So you kind of get to prove your idea's validity to yourself. I feel like I constantly was having moments where I was like, I don't know what I should do. And then I would say a thing and your scene partner's like, great. And then you're like, okay, yeah, that was good. It is like putting the bumpers up on the bowling alley lane so you can't actually get a gutter ball. And that's what improvised feels to me.

Chris Duffy

In a lot of ways, it reveals a truth that we all know. Right. Which is that you can actually only control the thing in the present moment. Right. Like, you only control what you're doing right now. You've acknowledged the truth that, like, a lot of us pretend that we don't do.

Rick Andrews

I wish I had packed more earlier. Absolutely. You know, it's not that, like, you. You do you, like, learn this skill and then you stop, like, planning for things. It's just that, like, no matter how much you plan, you can't control everything. And so planning is really good, but it's just. It's never going to go exactly how you think it's going to go, and it's never going to be. And I think some of that also, like, there's a reduction of anxiety. There's also kind of when you're so anxious and worried about it and it saps you from the present. You're missing out on all these really wonderful, like, moments we both have, like, young kids. And I wonder if you felt some of this being with, like, a little kid where they just, like, stop and, like, look at a leaf.

Chris Duffy

Totally.

Rick Andrews

And they will Sit there and look at a leaf for, like, five minutes, and it's. That's not an activity that I often do, like walking around, but it's awesome. Looking at a leaf totally rocks. And I should stop more and look at a leaf thinking about all the 10 things I have to do. I'm kind of missing the thing that is happening. And in improv, as you're building scenes, that's where a lot of the joy and discovery comes from, that we get to figure out these fun ideas together. And in life, it feels like when I remind myself to do that, I'm like, actually, I notice stuff. I notice things that are beautiful or sad or interesting or compelling or funny or whatever it is. Yeah.

Chris Duffy

Well, one of the things that I think is so great about spending time with a young kid is they combine what we've been talking about, like that real presence in the moment, because they just live in the moment, but they also combine it with this silliness. And I think it's not always intentional with a kid, but I think as an adult. This is the other flip side of improv is this silliness and play that I love. I mean, I was trying to think in preparation for this interview what my first memory of you was, and it was watching you perform at an improv festival. I think it was in Boston, and you were in anthropomorphized gumball machine, and you were performing as the gumball machine. And it was so silly. And I just remember laughing so hard, like, truly tears coming down my cheeks as I was watching you be sometimes doing improv.

Rick Andrews

It's like. It's like someone who, like, gets blackout drunk, they don't remember what they did. You're like, if you say so. Yeah.

Elise Hu

Yeah.

Chris Duffy

Well, also, you've done this, like, thousands of times.

Rick Andrews

That sounds fun. I would do that again if I. If I did that. That sounds great.

Chris Duffy

Yeah. Well, but this is what I mean. It's like, it was really fun, but it was also so silly. Like, you were in the moment pretending to be that. But also, that's not something that, like, you could be very in the moment for your whole life and never pretend to be a gumball machine, because there's a silliness there that is also like that Bringing that childlike play back into your life as an adult is also a big piece of this too.

Rick Andrews

I think that's part of also what it's like. It feels like kind of meaningful silliness, you know, because it's. It's a collaborative thing. Not Like a. The kind of silly, jokey thing that feels unfun is talking to someone and they're trying to take everything you say and be funny and do a bit. And it's kind of indelible because it's not really a genuine engagement with you versus this sense of playfulness where they're there and engaging with you, but they're just seeing the world with a playful eye and pretend to be a gumball. Sheen that was alive would probably not be very fun if I was doing it with a bunch of people who acted like what I was doing was so lame and stupid. But you're doing it in this context where everybody else. I'm sure I don't remember that show, but I'm sure they were all, this is great and they, like, built around it. And so it's kind of like you learn over time that like, one, like the confidence and the lack of like, self criticism, I think is actually like what the audience is engaging with. Like, they want to watch you guys, like, play in this, like, fully present way. And also you're like, freed up to do that through the support of it. Like, I don't know that I have it in me to, like, do that by myself. You know, to just be, you know, people have your back and they're going to make whatever you do look good. It just creates this huge space where you actually feel like you can't fail or it's kind of not even on you to figure out why it's good. It's like other people are going to do that job. And I think that's a huge part of it, is the rapport and the trust in the corporate term of psychological safety. I think that is a lot of what improv is building.

Chris Duffy

This is what I have trouble sometimes explaining to people who haven't done improv a lot, or even people who are improvisers who just improvise in a different way than I do, is that I think the skill is really great and I think it builds these cool muscles of attention and playfulness and connectivity. But to me, the thing that actually I really loved the most about improv, and I like doing standup too. I like doing all sorts of comedy. But the thing that I loved the most about improv was when you perform a lot with the same people. So not just once, right? Like once you still feel that, oh, you have my back. But like, when you really get to know each other and you know what they think is funny and, you know, the things that they have references for and the things that they don't have cultural references that, like, deep knowledge of each other combined with the trust that you're going to make each other look good. That, to me was like. What was so magic was being in a moment where I knew, like, my friend Tim actually does not know anything about Shakespeare. And yet if I say to him, you're a famous Shakespearean actor, he will immediately pretend to be a Shakespearean actor and he'll say everything wrong. And we will just agree that that is correct. And the audience will laugh because it's so obvious how he does not know Shakespeare and yet he's going for it because we're all going to make him look good on that. That is the joy, I think.

Rick Andrews

Yeah. It is really nice to be in a supportive context. I remember going back to my college improv team reunion show and there are a bunch of folks there who I had improvised with when I was a freshman and they were seniors. I really only did improv with them for one year and they were now, this was 10 years after I graduated. So it was. Everybody was full adults and I hadn't seen people yet in a long time. And it was that thing of like, you kind of expect, oh, it's that person. Then you're kind of hanging out and you're like, oh, we actually don't know each other that well at all because I haven't talked to you in 10 years. And then when we did the show, it kind of felt like no time had passed. Just so weird because it was like, oh, yeah. I actually didn't know these people in this, like, social way that much. I wasn't like hanging out with them every weekend necessarily, but I knew them in this playful way. The way I knew them is this, like, language of communication that we have as we're improvising together. There is that weird kind of connection where you're like, oh, yeah. I just feel like we're like on the same wavelength at this point.

Chris Duffy

And I also think it's a feeling you can get in a really, like, long term relationship, whether that is, you know, a romantic relationship or a friend relationship. But improv, I think, especially the way that you teach, can be a way to. It's a shortcut to get there. You can get that kind of emotional intimacy and that safety with people in a much shorter amount of time. Which is why I think a lot of people do really value this in like a corporate or work setting or universities, because you want to have that closeness, but you don't have, you know, 10 years of hanging out to get to that place.

Rick Andrews

I do think it is helpful in all the ways that we're talking about, but it's not like you go in the room being like, the entire point of everything we're doing is to be more confident or to be a better doctor or to have friends or whatever.

Chris Duffy

Yeah.

Rick Andrews

It's kind of like you learn and grow through the act of, like, trying to develop a craft and, like, trying to, like, do this task together. Like, a lot of people I know who I feel like are really. I don't know, I admire or mature in these ways. I do think in a weird way, sometimes a lot of them kind of found themselves through the act of doing a thing that wasn't the purpose of it wasn't to fix them or make them something better or whatever. It was just kind of like they got really into rock climbing or they got super into playing the piano or whatever it is. And then each one of these skills or whatever, if you apply yourself to it, it has different lessons to teach you. Learning an immune instrument takes a kind of dedication and, like, a commitment to practice. That, for example, improv does not require, you know, so, yeah, like, rock climbing requires a little bit of, like, facing, like, physical fears in a way that, like, you know, probably scary, but not in, like, I'm gonna fall off the rock way.

Chris Duffy

And yet many people do feel that. I think a lot of people feel that, like, visceral physical fear of, like, I'm gonna be in front of people performing, being silly. Like, that is. I think a lot of people fear that more than falling off the rock.

Rick Andrews

But you kind of know that you're actually not going to die when you are rock climbing. You. You might actually die. Yeah, I guess that's true. So it's like, I think each one of these things, it's like pulling different parts of a potential version of you kind of out. Your current personality is interacting with this craft or skill or game or sport or activity and having that right angle on it. Versus when I have students who are, for example, they're really obsessed with getting good. It's actually really unfun energy to perform with. I just want to do it right. And it's kind of like, people are like, yeah, this is cool. I'm going to keep doing it and see how it goes. That actually turns into building a lot of skills pretty quickly. So there's something kind of nice about it that we have this group task, and the actual focus is not on what I'm getting out of this, what I'm supposed to be doing. It's all on helping the group, helping the moment, helping the scene. Being present so that it can be successful requires forgetting yourself in it, which I think is one of the active ingredients in why this thing is fun and also meaningful in a way that doesn't feel disposable.

Chris Duffy

Going to take a quick break and then we will be right back.

Elise Hu

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. Running a small business means every hire matters. A bad hire can cost you time, money and momentum. A good hire? They can help grow your business. But finding great talent isn't easy, especially when you don't have the time or resources to save. Sift through piles of resumes to find the right fit. That's why LinkedIn built Hiring Pro, your new hiring partner that screens candidates for you. So instead of sorting through applications, you spend your time talking to candidates who are actually a good fit. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence, knowing you're getting the best talent for your business. In fact, according to LinkedIn, those hiring with LinkedIn are 24% less likely to need to reopen a role within 12 months compared to the leading competitor. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire get started by posting your job for free at LinkedIn. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. For a lot of small business owners, the challenge isn't just growing the business, it's everything that comes with it. Hiring payroll benefits the work that happens behind the scenes but still takes real time and energy. That's where Gusto makes a difference. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. With built in automated tools, your team spends less time on paperwork and more time focused on growth. And Gusto has options for nearly every budget you get. Unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises. Getting started is easy. Transfer your existing data and get up and running quickly. Try gusto today@gusto.com TedTalks and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll@gusto.com Tedtalks One more time. Gusto.com TedTalks

Chris Duffy

and we are back. The funniest people who I've ever done improv with are often almost clueless as to why the laugh is happening. And it's because they're so committed to just like saying the thing that they're seeing, or they say something that is unusual but is true to what they're feeling, and that gets this huge laugh. And it's so fun to play with them because they're unexpected, but they're also genuine. And that's something that doesn't really work in other contexts, but I think in real life, we love that too, right? Like, you walk into a. A room and it smells really bad, and a bunch of people are pretending like it doesn't smell bad. And then someone just goes, it smells horrible in here. That person calling out the reality of it is often the person where you're like, okay, at least that one person is real. And I think in an improv scene, that's often the funniest thing that a person can do is just to say exactly what is happening.

Rick Andrews

Oh, totally. Yeah. I'm remembering a guy who used to perform at the theater who was like. He was like one of the worst actors I'd ever seen in my entire life. But he had this incredible stage charm. He was just like one of these guys that. That his action personality lacked that censor. He was just like. It never occurred to him to not say exactly what popped into his brain, even if there was no possible way to justify or explain why that is. And so it's like, on paper, he would be making the wrong choice, but it always felt joyful and fun. And it was so fun to play with because you knew it was authentic and genuine versus someone who's kind of like, you probably talk a lot about. Yes, and how can I build off this idea? So it's like, sometimes someone will start a scene, and they're like, dad, I have to go to the potty. And the other person's like, son, you're 35. And it gets this kind of cheap laugh where it's kind of like that laugh kind of comes at the expense of your partner. Like, you know, they don't think they're 35, right?

Elise Hu

Yeah.

Rick Andrews

Yeah. What really matters, actually, is not whether we get the ideas right, it's that we're trying to do it. So it's kind of like, what was my honest read on your thing? And if I get it wrong, that actually still feels really fun and joyful.

Chris Duffy

You know, people talk about yes, and as, like, we agree and then we build. But I think there's this other piece in exactly what you said, right? Someone starts a scene and they say, I have to go to the potty, daddy. And then the person says, son, you're 35. The reason denying what that person said. It doesn't work, like, on a technical comedic level. It gets this cheap laugh and doesn't keep going. But the thing that it took me a long time to put my finger on is one of the things that is so beautiful about improv is I walk on stage and I am not my physical form. I am not a white dad in his late 30s. I could be anything. I could be a giant red balloon. I could be a gumball machine. I could be a gumball machine. I could be a spaceship. I could be a tiny little squirrel. I could be a woman from 1835. Right. Like, I could be anything. And so what you have to do as your. As the partner is to pay attention to how that person is defining themselves.

Rick Andrews

Yeah.

Chris Duffy

And if you don't and you just put a definition on them that is not true to what they've said in the scene, it's you kind of like putting your preconceptions on them. And you see this a lot of times where people, like, won't let, for example, like a female improviser, they won't let them play a male character. And it's like, well, that is you bringing all your own crap into the scene rather than actually existing in the scene. And I think that's like. That's where the beauty is, is like actually just seeing the person as what they are claiming to be and defining themselves as, rather than your idea of who they have to be.

Rick Andrews

You know, if I have students in their 60s and 70s, like, you know, somebody will come out and be like, nice kick, flip. And the other person's like, thanks, Grandpa. And it's like, I don't think he thought he was your grandpa. You know? You know, people who are 24, like, they maybe don't have a bunch of friends who are 75. So their only association is like, you're my grandpa. Right. And it's that cool way of seeing kind of beyond each other. Let's take the thing of I need to go to the potty. Son of 35. Right. So if you do it the opposite way, where it's like, dad, I need to go to the potty. Right. Good enterprises are just getting as much possible information out of it as can. So not only did I tell you that you're my dad, but I think I'm probably pretty strongly imply that we are not at home. Right. Because if they can use the potty, they could maybe go by themselves at a certain point or whatever. But there's also something in the tone of voice. It's like, I kind of need your help or whatever. So if we're at home, I do need you help me, I'm not able to go by myself kind of thing. You actually already have narrowed the frame in a subtle way. But if you're ignoring all that to get this joke, you actually don't pick up on any of those potential information, so you lose it. And if you really think about what you're doing there on a cognitive level and you're kind of thinking, what do I think you think is true about the scene? And because this is a fictional world, I'm essentially asking myself, how are you seeing the world? It's kind of like the literal definition of empathy, right? It's like trying to see the world from someone else's eyes. And I do think that's kind of like why that thing works, is I have to do this perspective taking in order to not just understand what did you say or do, but not, where are you going with it? Because there is no. We're not in control of that. But given all of the clues I have, what do I think you think is happening right now? Right.

Chris Duffy

I actually do buy into why so many, like, business people or leaders or, you know, people in stressful situations take improv workshops. It's for exactly that, right? Because how do you not bring your own ideas about what this person is telling you, but instead really hear what someone is saying and get all the information out of it? To not put them in a box, but rather to actually, like, hear what's in the moment is. Is a really incredibly and super valuable skill for a leader.

Rick Andrews

I did a workshop with a bunch of physicians recently, and we ended up having this really interesting conversation about the difference between yeah and yeah. It's like, okay, does it hurt if I do this? Yeah. Does it hurt if I do this? Yeah. They're different, right? Like, one is like 8 and the other is like 6.5 or whatever. Right. But it's all in the tone. And I think, like, my understanding is that a lot of doctors get trained, kind of like how salespeople get trained sometimes, where it's like, here's the. The things you're going to say. And then depending on what they answer, you're going to go down this pathway or this pathway, where it's like, I'm asking you these 12 questions right, in a row. And so I might hear the actual answers you give. But if I'm in my head thinking about what the next question is, I now may be missing some of the little human things, which is ultimately, sometimes when I go to the doctor, I don't just want information about what is wrong with me, but I want someone to tell me that I'm going to be okay. You know what I mean? Which is an emotional need that is not a medical one. And you're not going to pick up on that in the symptoms that I present. You're going to pick up on that and, like, noticing my body language and my facial expressions and my tone of voice.

Chris Duffy

So you walk into a room full of doctors and you are there to lead an improv workshop. What's an exercise that you do with them that you feel like unlocks something inside of them?

Rick Andrews

A lot of what we start with is just warming up, Do a little name game, get to know each other, have a little fun. Some group exercises just so people can feel like, oh, this is actually not so hard. And we're doing it. There's a yes and exercise that I often use in these workshops at companies and in level one in prep class. It's called Alibi. Do you remember this game, Chris?

Chris Duffy

I don't know. Remind me.

Rick Andrews

Okay. It's great. So the setup is like, I'm the facilitator, I am a parent. And then we get two people up, and they are my teenage children who are siblings. And so the setup is that, like, they're coming home late, past their curfew, and what they've really been doing is they were at a party, but I will ground them. That's not a good reason to be late. Right. So instead, the two teenagers have to come up with a lie on the spot about why they're late. If they contradict each other, that's when I know that they're lying. But if they support each other, then they might get out of trouble. So if I'm like, why are you late? And the person was like, oh, we got stuck in traffic. But then the other person was like, no, we didn't. We were swallowed by a whale. Okay. But it was like, oh, we got stuck in traffic. Yeah. There was a big event at the aquarium. Yeah. They're having a. A blue whale. It's the first time ever a blue whale in captivity, et cetera, et cetera. So now we're, like, riffing off of each other. The context is very intuitive that we are on the same team. And it's not. I'm not trying to win this game. We both succeed by making each other look good.

Chris Duffy

Okay, and then what about muscle building exercises that people do? I Mean, I'll tell you one that I think of a lot, which is like seven things. So it's just naming seven things in the category. And I think of that as just a great way of getting out of the idea of right and wrong. Right. But you give someone a category, they name as fast as they can.

Rick Andrews

So, Chris, seven Winter Olympic sports.

Chris Duffy

Okay, ready?

Rick Andrews

Yeah.

Chris Duffy

Skiing.

Rick Andrews

One.

Chris Duffy

Sledding.

Rick Andrews

Two.

Chris Duffy

Bobsledding.

Rick Andrews

Three.

Chris Duffy

Ice skating.

Rick Andrews

Four.

Chris Duffy

Ice skating with jumping. Ice skating with falling. Six. Rocket launching.

Rick Andrews

Seven. Yeah.

Chris Duffy

And serial. Okay.

Rick Andrews

Eight. Yeah, great. And then you did the thing too, which is like, okay, now do a version where like, explicitly you have to be wrong. So I'm going to give you a category and it's only incorrect answers.

Chris Duffy

Oh, great. Okay, let's do that.

Rick Andrews

That's fun. Seven made up incorrect breakfast cereals.

Chris Duffy

Okay. Sardine Trans. One King Cobra. 2. Sharp Edges.

Rick Andrews

3.

Chris Duffy

Square Buttons.

Rick Andrews

4.

Chris Duffy

Taco Littles.

Rick Andrews

5.

Chris Duffy

Giant Squares.

Rick Andrews

6.

Chris Duffy

Tree Balls.

Rick Andrews

7. Amazing. Okay, and then if this is a group of people who've done Zimbabwe before, I often, like, play that game. And when people say the answers that are wrong, even experience surprises, you can see their face going like, this is so stupid. Like, sharp edges. What am I saying? But then I'm like, okay, now just do some scenes with that as the start where it's like, so what brings you to the doctor today? I think I had too many sharp edges. I had a whole bowl this morning. It's not going down well. You know, it's like when you're saying the wrong answer, your brain still kind of goes like. And then if someone else just takes that and is like, actually, I love that. I think that's brilliant. I want to watch the Olympic sport. That's skating with jumps. It's not figure skating, it's speed skating with jumps. It's like ice hurdles, you know?

Chris Duffy

Yeah.

Rick Andrews

Like taking the wrong thing and like figuring out, well, why could that be great? Is like such a good creative muscle. And that's where a lot of, like, actual solutions come from. Is not like, when I'm running brainstorm sessions, it's exceedingly rare that the favorite idea by the end of the session started as someone saying something very safe and bland and ass covering. And then people rift that into innovativeness instead. It starts as someone saying something that is stupid, that is not practical, and is maybe even actually literally a joke. And then it's. But it's got this kernel to it. And then someone else is like, yeah, we can't do that. But like, oh, what about that? With this way you know, and you're actually like working it into practicality, right?

Chris Duffy

I think if there's some reason why it can't be the obvious answer or like the 10% close to the obvious answer isn't right, that's where people struggle. Because even for me, right just there, like, couldn't be lower stakes.

Rick Andrews

It.

Chris Duffy

It is uncomfortable to say things that are wrong and different and weird. And I love that. That game just like builds the muscle of it where in the lowest stakes way, it's just like, okay, I'm just, I have to say something. The only unacceptable answer is nothing. The only thing that is not right is if I stop and wait until I can think of something that is quote unquote correct. That's the only way to be wrong.

Rick Andrews

It's about trying to get the right answer together. You know, like, like, like I'm trying to read your reality and like, being wrong is fun and fine if, if I'm genuinely doing it. I was having a class this summer and this, I don't know, kind of a middle aged American guy, I think, I can't remember now, someone started a scene and was like, you know, basically doing Speed, you know, the movie. And they were like, I can't drive the bus below 50 miles an hour. It's going to explode. And the other person, I think it just moved from like Taiwan or Singapore. They've been in the country like three months. They were 23. They have not seen the 90s action movie Speed. They were just like, slow down, you're hurting my tummy. It was such a much funnier scene being like, there is no bomb, actually. It's just like, the bus driver is crazy and he's making everybody car sick. And it was like, oh, yeah. We met in this middle space between both people's associations. So it's actually not even knowing the reference. It's just like, I'm taking the text of what you gave me. I'm making my best interpretation of it. And actually, both people had more fun in the new third scene that was created out of both of their ideas than either one of them would have had if the scene had just gone exactly like each of them was expected. Does it make sense? I think that's like why we're trying to. Why do we get together to be creative? Why do we do brainstorm sessions with people? Why do we like, riff? It's because there's this kind of like, I don't have a weird metaphor, but it's like a gene pool of ideas. If it's just me riffing myself. It's like I'm not getting enough genetic diversity in the gene pool. It's like zoos got to trade their animals look like the other zoos, right? It's like you have different experiences than I do and you have slightly different associations or very different associations than I do. And that's not a weakness, that's a strength. So when I say something, you're going to have this slightly different association to it, and then your response is not going to be what I was expecting, and vice versa.

Elise Hu

This episode is brought to you by Walmart Business the best leaders might tell you the work that moves an organization forward doesn't happen in spreadsheets or supply chain emails. It happens when you have the space to think big. That's the idea behind Walmart Business. It's built to take the friction out of running an organization so your team isn't losing hours to procurement logistics when they could just be focused on the problems that actually matter. With an ever expanding business assortment, everyday low prices and fast, reliable shipping, Walmart Business keeps your operations running smoothly. Shop online, in store, or through the Walmart Business app, however, works best for you. Simpler operations, smarter spending. It's Walmart built for your business. Sign up for a free Walmart business account@business.walmart.com this episode is brought to you by NPR's Planet Money. Every great TED talk starts with curiosity, a question that pulls you in, an idea you hadn't considered before and somehow makes it feel personal. NPR's Planet Money does that same thing, but for the economy. Every episode starts with a why are Pokemon cards outpacing your retirement account? How has Russia's economy held on through four years of war and sanctions? What does a 750 pound wok robot mean for the future of restaurants? These aren't abstract economics lectures, they're human stories, funny, surprising, and genuinely illuminating. The Planet Money team has published a book tracing the global supply chain, launched a satellite to explore the private space industry, and walked inside a live book auction, all in the name of a helping you understand how money shapes the world. It's econ down to Earth. Follow NPR's Planet Money podcast and understand how money shapes the world. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. For a lot of small business owners, the challenge isn't just growing the business, it's everything that comes with it. Hiring, payroll, benefits. The work that happens behind the scenes but still takes real time and energy. That's where Gusto makes a difference. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay, hire onboard, and support your team from anywhere. With built in automated tools, your team spends less time on paperwork and more time focused on growth. And Gusto has options for nearly every budget you get. Unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises. Getting started is easy. Transfer your existing data and get up and running quickly. Try gusto today@gusto.com TedTalks and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll@gusto.com Tedtalks one more time Gusto.com TedTalks

Chris Duffy

you've taught a lot of people for many years. Have you ever done a private improv lesson, like for one person? Is that even possible? What would it be like?

Rick Andrews

If people are determined to pay me to do it, I will be grumpy to do it. Sometimes I'll do public speaking training for executive folks, and I'm always trying to get them to do a small group with a couple of their colleagues. And the higher people up are, the more nervous they are about that because it's so much more fun. It opens up the kinds of exercises you can do and then it feels like, okay, it's not just one person. And then me like, hey, try this. It's like the two or three of us you need someone to play with. In a lot of these exercises, it's kind of involved in balancing off the other person. And a lot of the benefits that we were talking about earlier, I think, come from that bowling alley bumper gutter thing. So it's kind of like if the goal is to build your creativity and confidence, I think actually doing that by yourself might seem less scary, but it's ultimately less impactful than having at least one other person there who you have to trust and put yourself out there for. Because then they are the bumper that helps and you're their bumper. You're both kind of nudging each other back on the lane in these nice ways.

Chris Duffy

Because of this podcast and because of the book that I wrote, I've interviewed several therapists and and psychologists who study anxiety. And one of the things that they all talked about that feels really related here is how one of the most effective treatments for people who are anxious is to just have them test the thing that they're afraid of against reality. Right? Like you're afraid that if you go out in the street, something terrible will happen. So let's go out in the street for five minutes, just see, like, you're walking on the sidewalk. Did something terrible happen? No. Okay. Maybe that means that, like, it's a valid fear, but it's not a guaranteed thing that is going to happen. And I think the reason why speaking and playing in a group of people is so helpful is I think it does take that fear that people have of, like, I need to prepare all alone, because otherwise things are going to be disastrous when people hear me speak in public, to just go, like, let's do it. Let's have a disaster in front of some people and see how bad it is. And it ends up not being bad at all. It ends up being fun.

Rick Andrews

I mean, I wonder if this is. You're not always interviewing people who do a thing that you also are.

Chris Duffy

Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Rick Andrews

Chris is also very humble. He's also extremely good at improv and knows a ton about it. Like, what is Chris before doing improv or comedy or performing? And, like, now, like, can you really feel this, like, phase shift of, like, the way it's kind of, like, shaped you?

Chris Duffy

It's a great question. I mean, my honest answer is that I think so much of who I am is because of doing improv and comedy. And I started doing it when I was young, so I wasn't, like, a fully formed person yet. But, you know, I was, like, in college and still figuring out who I was. So it's hard for me to say, like, this is who I was before, because I think the formation of who I am, it's kind of tied to it. But I think the biggest thing was realizing that the best thing I could do if I wanted to look good was to not make myself look good, but to make the people that I was there with look good. Like that. That was the secret trick, is you want everyone to enjoy the show. Don't make it so you're the best person in the show. Make it so the other person on stage is the best person in the show. And then they're trying to do the same thing. And through that, you all look great. I think that was a really big lesson because I think that's counterintuitive to how I'm wired, where I would like to be regarded as the best person in the show. You know, I'm like, but what if I did this? And then realizing that that actually was always the way to backfire and make yourself look bad is to, you know, try and steal the joke rather than give the joke away. And I mean, not, like, steal the joke, like, steal, like, A written joke, but like, steal the punchline, steal the laugh rather than like, give the laugh to your partner.

Rick Andrews

Is that thing of like, am I worried about, like, how I'm looking? You know, it's just, it's not a comfortable space and it is more fun, actually, like long term, it is more enjoyable and fun to try to make other people succeed.

Chris Duffy

Yeah.

Rick Andrews

Because the kinds of things that you all can do as a group when everyone is playing that way far, far outpace what you can do if everybody is out there trying to get their own individual laughs and make themselves look good. It's like a basketball team where like everybody's shooting the second they get the ball. It's like you're not going to play very well. You need people to like, cut and drive and set picks and hustle on defense. And it's funny watching the All Star Game in every sport because it sucks so much. It's all the best people and they don't know how to play with each other. So everyone has maxed out their skill levels. But you kind of need some guy who doesn't make the All Star salary, whose only job is to just harass people on defense at the three point line or whatever. These pieces all have to fit together in some way. And in improv, it's not. You have this designated role, but it's like we're all trying to like, be whatever the show needs that night, kind

Chris Duffy

of across the board. Any successful creative person I've talked to or know will tell you that one of the biggest differences between, like, when they actually became successful and before, when they had this idea of what it meant to be a musician or a writer or a comedian or whatever it is that they do. An artist. One of the most consistent things that I really just feel like everyone experiences is I thought this was a thing that you do alone or you do just with your little group, like your little band. And then they realized that success is actually being part of a scene is actually being like supported and challenged and inspired by other people. And so even in the fields that are like, a novelist is not a team sport. And yet it is such an unbelievably rare novelist whose work is not the product of their relationships and their creative partnerships and the people who inspire them. And so that that thing of, like, together we are smarter than we could ever be alone. Oh yeah, I've heard. I think Brian Eno is the one who coined this term Scenius. Like, not genius, but Scenius. It's the genius of the Scene. And I think that is such a profound creative truth.

Rick Andrews

I was just talking to someone about music that like pre Internet, any non commercial genre was hyper geographically focused. Like remember like all the grunge bands came out of Seattle, right? And like Most of the 80s thrash metal bands were like from San Francisco. So I'm a metalhead, so this is most of my knowledge. But like, like of the like top 10, like seminal 80s death metal bands, like all 10 of them are either from Tampa Bay, Florida or Birmingham, England. It's so random because it's kind of like you could not hear like guttural death metal on the radio. Like you could only see it at a show or someone played it for you. So it was like there was a band in Tampa Bay and like they were, they figured the thing out and then people watching and they were like, let's try something like that. And they were all. It was this kind of collective thing. And when you go to write a novel, you sit down by yourself, but you are also in conversation with all of the books that you have ever read and all of the knowledge that's been passed to you and all of your experiences all kind of rattling around in there. And yeah, it is like being able to see and watch people do it is itself kind of part of the scenes and part of the conversation about it.

Chris Duffy

Okay, before we go, is there another exercise or improv activity that you like that we could do with just two, just the two of us.

Rick Andrews

Do you want to do a little. Fortunately, unfortunately this is like a really simple one that will play pretty well on audio or video.

Chris Duffy

Great. Yeah, explain it.

Rick Andrews

Okay, this is like a warm up game. It's like not like too big deep of a game, but it's really just simple fun warmup for the managing uncertainty thing. So this is a game that like anybody can do. They don't have to practice or done improv. So feel free to play this at home. We're going to make a story together and we're going to build it one sentence at a time. So I'll get the first sentence and then every other sentence after that is going to alternate either beginning with the phrase fortunately or unfortunately. So if I said I went to the pet store to get a puppy, then the next, then you would say like unfortunately the pet store only had lizards. And then I would say like fortunately, I'm a huge lizard fan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unfortunately the only lizard left was a Komodo dragon. Fortunately, I've got a huge yard, etc.

Chris Duffy

Etc.

Rick Andrews

Would you like to be fortunately or unfortunately?

Chris Duffy

I'll be fortunately.

Rick Andrews

So I will start with a bit of a negative news. I was walking to the train and I tripped on the curb.

Chris Duffy

Fortunately, you're going to get a huge class action settlement.

Rick Andrews

Yeah, unfortunately, I just can't stand lawyers. I really don't have it in me to just deal with being in court.

Chris Duffy

Fortunately, your lawyer also hates other lawyers.

Rick Andrews

Yeah, unfortunately, my lawyer is my ex. And it's just been really tense doing these, filing the paperwork.

Chris Duffy

Fortunately, this presents an incredible opportunity for you two to sort through all of the issues that drove you apart in your relationship.

Rick Andrews

Unfortunately, I'm also remembering why we broke up.

Chris Duffy

Fortunately, she's really starting to see that you weren't as bad as she had made you out to be.

Rick Andrews

Unfortunately, she's already fallen madly in love with Dale, who is her new partner.

Chris Duffy

Fortunately, Dale seems like a cool guy.

Rick Andrews

Unfortunately, he doesn't like me at all.

Chris Duffy

Fortunately, Dale is teaching you about setting clear boundaries, a lesson you needed to learn.

Rick Andrews

Unfortunately, I am a slow learner. Awesome. Great. Yay. Yay. It's a super silly game, and it's, like, fun in that it always goes a direction that is literally impossible to predict from the first sentence. I did this a while ago, and the first sentence was, I'm walking into. You're walking into a restaurant for a first date. And then very. It's a group of, like, 20 people. And the very first person said, unfortunately, I had a heart attack and died in the restaurant. And I could feel the whole group go, like, what are we going to do now? And the next person was like, fortunately, I became a ghost, a friendly ghost who haunted the restaurant and helped people have good dates. And this whole story became about, like, how we were, like, helping other people on their dates as a ghost. And it was like, the thing that feels like you've quote, unquote, like, ruined it, or like, that's a mistake actually turns out sometimes to be the best part of the idea that is the memorable portion of it.

Chris Duffy

I love that the thing that you think is the disaster might turn out to be the greatest gift of all. Well, Rick Andrews, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, and this was no exception.

Rick Andrews

Thanks, man. And can I say, I'm sure listeners who don't know you might wonder, gosh, he seems like a really nice guy, but, you know, sometimes in real life, people actually jerks. And I just want to confirm for everybody that Chris is the actual nicest person. One of the nicest people I know on the planet Earth.

Chris Duffy

Oh, that's so nice. I thought you were going to go for the cheap punchline and say he's a monster, but I appreciate that you did.

Rick Andrews

Like, you're so lovely and everybody who knows you feels the same way. Thanks man. Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

Chris Duffy

That is it for today's episode of how to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to our guest, Rick Andrews. You can find him online@rickandrewsimprov.com I am your host Chris Duffy and my new book Humor Me is out now. You can find out more about my book and all my other projects@chrisduffycomedy.com how to be a Better Human is put together by a group of Zip Zap, Zop. On the TED side, I'm getting yes and Ed by Daniela Vallorezzo, Ban Ban Chang, Michelle Quint, Chloe Shashar Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lot, Tanzika, Soon Manivong, Antonio Ley, and Joseph de Bruyne. Ryan Lasch edits the video and picks the perfect moment to black out each scene, and Mattea Salas checks the facts to make sure we are not inventing our sources or statistics. On the PRX side, there are the Herald Knight of Audio, Morgan Flannery, Norgill, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks to you for listening. You are the best scene partner I could ever ask for. Please send this episode to someone who you think would enjoy it. Someone who has your back. We will be back next week with even more how to Be a Better Human. Until then, don't make any plans, just improvise. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 30% your first year@lifelock.com podcast terms apply.

Elise Hu

Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam, call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself now@aura.com safety.