Ralph Russo

Foreign.

Bruce Feldman

Welcome to the Audible, presented by Trader Joe's. I'm Ralph Russo from the Athletic, joined today in person there used to being this close to you. There you are. When was the last time we were in even in the same room together? Well, national championship. National championship for a couple of days.

Stu

Well, no, not national championship. One of the other playoff games because I wasn't at the national championship. Oh, that's right. I definitely saw you at one of those right now to set the scene for people because you can't see the scene. Like, I literally just checked into the hotel in Vegas where we're here for the Athletic off site and came up here to record this. And Ralph, you definitely got a good one. You're looking straight out at Allegiant Stadium and the W and Mandalay Bay. Right. I know you. You're a Vegas guy. You must be excited.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah, well, not. Not the biggest Vegas guy. It's all it was. It was 99 degrees when I landed today at 9:00am oh, that was. That's nice. Much higher than that now and it's hotter than that now. So, yeah. Being a little intimidated by the weather. Enjoying my view from. They obviously they must have given me your room, clearly, because I have a very nice view. But we get to be in the same place at the same time when we get to do this podcast live. Bruce Feldman will be joining us. Well, we'll be joining the podcast later. Bruce was in Dallas for Big 12 media days this week, and his contribution to the show is going to be an interview with Mike Golick Jr. They talk about his career move back. He's heading back to ESPN with his dad. So Bruce will handle the last segment of the show. Stu and I are going to handle the first two segments of the show. The mailbag, of course, because it's that episode. It's the second episode of the week, so of course it's a mailbag episode. And we are going to start with some Big 12 because it was Big 12 media days this week.

Stu

And naturally the two people of the three who were not at Big 12 media days are going to be the ones to talk about what happened.

Bruce Feldman

Of course, yes, we were. Neither of us were there, but we were following along at home. Like, I hope you guys were Chris up and David Hubbin and Chris Venini were there for us along with Bruce. And like, no huge headlines. But of course, Deion Sanders is always a bit of a headline coming out of where whenever Deion shows up and talks, there's bound to be some headlines. For example, Dion is not in the EA Sports game. We wrote about that. And he kind of said, well, why

Stu

aren't paying him enough?

Bruce Feldman

Why you're not paying enough. But then we also, as David Ubin explained in his story, the coaches don't get paid to be in the, in the, in the game. And there's. He's not the only coach that's not in the game. But the coaches tend to not get paid to be in the game. But you know, it's year four with Dion at cu. Coach prime experience. It's been, you know, bad year, but progress. Year one, very good year. Heisman Trophy winner Shedeur. Year two, back to three wins last year. And we're doing another portal rebuild this year. I don't know what did you hear out of Coach prime that made you think this might be better or worse? Like what is going on?

Stu

Well, we discussed Colorado, I don't know, maybe a month or so ago, maybe a little more. And you guys were surprised at how down I was on them. Oh, it was the over unders.

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Yeah.

Stu

And nothing he said changed my mind. I mean the first year going to that first year, obviously I was wrong. A lot of people were wrong. We thought, we didn't think he was ready for the job. And he actually did a pretty good job. I know that the final record didn't say that, but it was clear like, okay, he has upgraded the roster and then they had the nine win season the next year and then his two star players left for the NFL including his son and they just totally regressed. He said a couple odd things. I'm going to be honest.

Bruce Feldman

What struck you as odd?

Stu

Well, first of all, he apparently doesn't know the first name of his offensive coordinator. He kept referring to Brendan Brendan as Brennan Marion. Brendan Marion as Brendan Marion. So I mean I don't want to be too alarmed about that, but maybe not the best sign.

Bruce Feldman

Maybe had Brendan Soares beyond the mind we've all had.

Stu

He said. Basically he said the reason he they struggled last year is he screwed up. By his own admission, he screwed up the quarterback situation after his son left for the NFL. I made a big mistake, man. You got to understand it. I've coached my son my whole entire life. So everything was like compared to that, it's hard to get. And then he later said that's why they make the most money in the NFL and college Nils as well. But I never had that thought process until a season ago. Deion Sanders, it never occurred to him that the quarterback position, how important the quarterback position was.

Bruce Feldman

Well, I mean listen, he definitely screwed it up at one point when he kind of threw that kid, the, the, the, the red shirt freshman kid or, or like Stringer in for a game. He had juju Lewis and juju Lewis is going to be the guy this year and I do wonder when he says he screwed up. I would have loved to a follow up of like should you have just gone with juju the whole way or should you had put juju on ice, have him learn a year and say we're just, we're not going to use juju in year one. Like I think like commit one or the other. He's the most talented kid. He's the four star, you know, five star ish player that you brought in. So like you would think that maybe that's what he means, that you're either like committed to juju or you're not. As opposed to jerking.

Stu

Well, he's changing it every week, right?

Bruce Feldman

That's what I'm saying.

Stu

You know, Kaden Salter was supposed to be the guy. He was productive at Liberty, right. I think he ended up starting the most games but it was like every week, is it going to be him? Is it going to be this other guy? Is it going to be the true freshman? And. But it wasn't like quarterback was their only problem. No, I mean pretty much everything fell apart.

Bruce Feldman

They regressed defensively. They still haven't figured out how to run the ball, you know. So the interesting thing, like I don't know if it's going to get dramatically better this year. I think, you know, again Bruce and I, you know, we're not, I haven't done a massive deep dive on the roster. What I, what I glean from some of the roster move this year, again, it's another big turnover in the portal. It seems like they are trying to do a little less of oh, that four star who failed at Alabama or Georgia or Texas. Let's go get that guy and we'll get the most out of him. There's a, there seems to be a little more. Oh, this guy was productive at his last.

Stu

Yeah, it's true.

Bruce Feldman

So maybe that helps this year, you know, but again like, you know, what does that mean when you're playing? I think they have two. I'm glancing at their schedule here, right. They play at Georgia Tech and at Northwestern. Not that, no, Northwestern is not going to be, you know, really good in the Big Ten. But I mean give me six and

Stu

six kind of good.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah. So they could lose to Northwestern on the road at Northwestern's new stadium and they played Georgia Tech in Atlanta. And a funny comment about how the coaches are on curfew in Atlanta, not the players, because they're playing. They're playing the opening game in Atlanta, I think, on a Friday night. So, yeah, I don't know, man. Like, I. Here's a better question. Are they going to be better off in the long run when this ends? It. It feels like what he has built is very year to year. And I kind of wonder, like, when this is over, will they have looked at this and said it was a fun ride, but, like, is there nothing really here? There's no. Is there any foundation here? And that's what I guess I'm wondering now we're not there all the time, but what are your thoughts about this idea of like, is he building something that, like, when he leaves it will be. CU will have been better off?

Stu

I mean, first of all, I think they got their, their money's worth with those two seasons. You can't make for whatever the record was. I know, like, if you add the two together, it's like around 500. But the whole college football world was focused on Boulder, Colorado for two years, Right. Sold out crowds, huge TV ratings. Like, that's what you hired him for. That, that went frankly beyond what you might have expected when you hired him. So I think what you're going to.

Ralph Russo

What will.

Stu

What this year will determine is kind of what you're saying, right. Like, let's say they're even worse than last year. You know, he took over a program that was at rock bottom and if is it four, four years later they're back to rock bottom.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

Then, no, I don't think he left them better off. But I think your hope would be stabilize, build some momentum this year. And you know, when he hired Brennan Marion, for people who don't know was, you know, he's been all around the place. Right. But he had a big role in UNLV success under Barry Odom. He was the OC with the Go Go offense. Then he leaves, become the head coach at SAC State, which I visited him there. That.

Bruce Feldman

Right.

Stu

That preseason there was a lot of hype around them. They're going to get to the fbs.

Bruce Feldman

Which they did.

Stu

Which they did. And. But by that time he was gone

Bruce Feldman

in an odd way.

Stu

And I'm thinking part of that was at that time, like he went there, he had said, like, I, I wouldn't have come here if they weren't moving to fbs. And as of that moment, they weren't an fbs. But also, if I'm him and Dion calls, I'm thinking, huh, if we do. If I go there and we do well, and then Dion steps down for. Whether it's for health reasons, lack of success, whatever it may be, like, maybe they promote me. Right. So I think that would be the ideal scenario, is that he leaves it in a place that is promising enough that maybe whether it's Brennan, Marion or somebody else, they can keep building from there. But right now, all the momentum from that first two seasons is just gone.

Bruce Feldman

Right. Because the things that build a foundation are. Well, in the old days, it was recruiting, and it still can be recruiting. But they don't really. High school recruit.

Stu

No, they don't.

Bruce Feldman

Which is a problem. Yeah, they pick and choose a couple of four stars here and there, but they're not really building a pipeline of high school recruiting. But nowadays even that is like, not exactly what. What you really do to build a foundation is sort of like get the boosters involved and figure out, like, what the structure is going to be for Nil and the coach can have a hand in putting that in place. And sort of like, again, when you start about building a foundation of like, okay, what is our talent acquisition base going to be? And I just kind of get the feeling that whatever buzz there is around Deon leaves. When Deon goes and then does cu, just going back to this place where there was a massive malaise, I just wonder, has he awakened the program, the supporters of the program, the boosters, the people around the program, to the idea of, like, oh, yeah, remember when we used to be good at football? That was fun. We should continue trying to be good at football because that's why CU was so bad for such a long time. And I don't know if that's happening. I'm not seeing signs that, like, the community, the university itself is like, yeah, when you leave, we are still all in.

Stu

I don't know. I mean, the AD who hired him isn't there anymore. Mike Bone Step or not. Mike Bone.

Bruce Feldman

No, no. Rick George.

Stu

Rick George retired. I don't get the sense that even with that success, they suddenly had massive booster contributions. That's part of why they don't necessarily play in that. That pool. But he showed you can win there.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

You know, before that, I mean, I remember writing a story about Colorado being hopeless. This was the year before. So Carl Durrell going to call what became Carl Durrell's last year. They, like, this program has no Hope they were literally.

Bruce Feldman

I got it. You can make the. You can make an argument they were the worst FBS team in the country for a couple of years. Therefore you got. Yeah. Excuse me. For. Yeah. Worst power conference team to the point where they didn't even look like a power conference team. That you, you talk to people who lined up against him and like, this is not a PAC12 at the time roster.

Stu

And even though they have that history, you know, certainly people. We just do all this 90s stuff.

Ralph Russo

Right.

Stu

People remember the glory days of CU. But I talked to for that story, I talked to Rick Neuheisel, I talked to Gary Barnett, I talked to people who are on Bill McCartney staff. And they all tell you, you have no idea how hard that job is. Like Bill McCartney made people think it was easier than it is. It's very hard.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

And. And going to the PAC 12, by the way, did not help.

Bruce Feldman

No, they thought it was going to because it was a better sort of academic, cultural fit. But. And they get so many kids from California. But it never really panned out that way. So. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, Deion, again, Deion always makes some headlines whenever he steps in front of a microphone.

Stu

We should also acknowledge, since you have the A, that he took a little dig at the Athletic. Yeah, we didn't quite understand that. Our colleague David Oman asked him a question. It was the EA question, actually. He answered it and then at the end he said, you guys do a great job with the Athletic, sarcastically, and then said, and if you can't tell, I'm lying. We don't know what that's about. We really don't.

Bruce Feldman

So I'm speculating when his first year roster changeover didn't Max Olsen, who was now with espn, wasn't here when I got here. Didn't he do a big story? Not just Max, I'm sure.

Stu

Yeah. The story he would have been most upset about probably was the one where he talked to all these guys, guys who it was, you know, he brought in his Louis Vuitton cast off all these other guys. Max talked to some of the guys he ran off.

Bruce Feldman

Right.

Stu

And some of them were not very complimentary. But man, that was three years ago.

Bruce Feldman

Right.

Stu

I know you we had over it,

Bruce Feldman

but man, you guy just remembers everything.

Stu

All right.

Bruce Feldman

So of course. And again, it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be our show and it wouldn't be the Big 12. There wasn't at least some Texas Tech news. Listen, Texas Tech is still trying to. The Big 12 and Texas Tech are still trying to get on the same page. Right. They're still trying to, you know, mend some fences, I think was the word in Chris Vanini's story from yesterday. And then it comes out. I don't think this is going to necessarily help, because then it comes out. Today, Scott Satterfield was talking to a couple of our colleagues, Chris and David, and he talked about how, oh, yeah, Brendan Sorsby, he had teams like halfway during the season reaching out to him, including Texas Tech.

Stu

He specifically said Texas Tech reached out with four games left.

Bruce Feldman

So, of course, he accuses Texas Tech of tampering. We also hear that Cincinnati has gotten a letter of inquiry from a notice of inquiry from the ncaa. They want to ask some questions about, hey, like, what did you know about Brendan in all his gambling? Right. Like, I mean, clearly, we know there's been reporting from Justin and our staff about some of the things that, you know, Cincinnati has acknowledged that, hey, like, yes, he came to us, he said, can I bet on you?

Stu

You know, UFC and nascar.

Bruce Feldman

UFC and nascar. And there was, you know, there was

Stu

a fantasy app he was using.

Mike Golick Jr.

Yeah.

Bruce Feldman

So there's a couple of things that have been out there already. It would make sense. But the problem with all of that is, and it leads to some of the weirdness we got at Big 12 media days on Tuesday, I guess it was. There's still this, like, feeling among Texas Tech people and even some media people that, like, Cincinnati knew, yeah, they got,

Stu

why aren't they getting punished?

Bruce Feldman

Why aren't they getting punished? So there was this kind of, like, a very testy exchange between somebody who covers Texas Tech and Bret, your mark. I guess all's not well there. Like, there's still some. Some feelings that need to be smoothed over. But, like, I don't know, like, does it matter? Like, like, is there, like, at some point they have to live with each other? Right, Stu?

Stu

Apparently, they all went to a steakhouse, because in Texas, all business gets done at a steakhouse or barbecue or Barbie. No, like, your mark. And Texas Tech folks, including Cody.

Bruce Feldman

Okay, of course, yeah.

Stu

Went to a steakhouse to try to mend fences. But you definitely heard your mark's frustration. So it was one of those only immediate kind of scenes.

Bruce Feldman

It's become a meme now. And one of my former AP colleagues was part of that meeting.

Stu

Oh, yeah, I saw that. Yeah. This reporter who I believe was a podcaster there, you know, asks what is. You know, it's. The way he's wording it is like, you Wouldn't even have to know. Okay, this guy covers Texas Tech.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

Which basically, like, he's a. He's insinuating that the Big 12 has it out for Texas Tech, not just because of Sorsby, but because, you know, remember last year at the big controversy around this with the tortillas was they banned the tortillas, which text, you know, the Texas Tech tradition. So, like. And I don't think, by the way, that he's alone. I think. I'm not going to say all Texas Tech fans because I don't know all Texas Tech fans, but the ones you see on Twitter or maybe popping up in your mentions. Yes. They genuinely believe that. That the Big 12, which, by the way, doesn't make any sense for the Big 12, would love more than anything is for Texas Tech to become a national championship contender with a national champion. No, the sentiment is great. If they hate, they're jealous. Everybody's jealous of Texas Tech. And because they have Cody Campbell and they have all the money and so they're out to get them. And wouldn't be the first time that a school, like, I remember Nebraska used to think the Big 12 had it out for them. Like, not, not. Not the first time. But, you know, it's. It's a bizarre situation, to say the least. Most. Mostly because I. I can't remember a time when a school and a fan base had a swagger that they just. They've had one year. Yeah, they had one. I mean, Texas Tech was mediocre.

Bruce Feldman

They never won.

Stu

2009 to 2024.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

And then they have this one great year. And now it's like, no, no, no. You don't tell us what to do. Big 12, you know, we run the place.

Bruce Feldman

We are the brand.

Stu

You need us. If you don't like us, we'll go to the sec. And it's like, no, this is not reality. You're not living in reality.

Bruce Feldman

You actually had this in your mailbag. A question. So let me just get this off one thing off my chest. I've said that I think you were gone on the podcast. We very rarely have been together, all three of us. Texas Tech did not get punished for the Brendan Sorsby situation. Like, I think there's this idea that Texas Tech has gotten punished. Texas Tech has not gotten. Brendan Sorsby got punished. Right?

Stu

Yeah.

Bruce Feldman

Like, you weren't on the show. In fact, I had talked about it with Bruce. I used, like, baseball jerks in profar. The Braves signed this outfielder free.

Stu

I do remember listening to that.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

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Yeah.

Bruce Feldman

And like, this is that situation again. Brendan Sorsby was punished because he did the bad thing. The ncaa, as of right now, has said none of the schools involved with sue them. But after they were threatened, all the Big 12 did was say, hey, listen, if you play the ineligible player, we're going to have a problem. But as of right now, you're cool, but if you play the ineligible player, we're going to have a problem. Can Pat. And that's a really.

Stu

That lawsuit beneficially dropped.

Bruce Feldman

I don't think it.

Stu

I don't think it has. And there was talk of, like, they might try to get Texas Tech to cover their.

Bruce Feldman

To cover legal fees.

Stu

Yeah, that seems like something you maybe shouldn't do if you're actually trying to make. Well, maybe let bygones be about.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah, I was looking up how much that. That law firm costs. There's a lot of $2,000 an hour lawyers in that. In sibling Sibley Austin, I think it is. Yeah. So, yeah, I just like, I think this idea that, like, Texas Tech was punished is. It just misses the point. Texas Tech was never punished.

Stu

Here.

Bruce Feldman

Texas Tech just happened to sign a guy who was a knucklehead and he ended up getting suspended. That happens in all of sports. Calvin Ridley did not. You know, I think he was with Tennessee at the time. You know, Tennessee didn't get anything back when Calvin Ridley got popped for gambling.

Stu

He's with the Falcons.

Bruce Feldman

Oh, he was with the Falcons.

Stu

Yeah.

Bruce Feldman

And he just went away for a year. So I would just. I just want to throw that out there again because I just. That annoys me when Texas Tech feels like it's being. Like it's being targeted here when it hasn't even been punished for anything.

Stu

Well, I will say that again. We're talking about a media member, and you're right, there's this great picture and we're two of the people around him and behind him here. I'll do it in front of the camera. Like.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah, there was a lot of this,

Stu

you know, Joey Maguire, from what I can tell, took the high road. I mean, in all his. You know, when you go on these circuits, you get interviewed a million times and, you know, he talks about coaches who reached out to check on how he was doing and all that kind of stuff. And he never said an ill word about the Big 12.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah. Yeah. So listen, I. I still think Texas Tech is going to win the Big 12. I still think that. I was going to ask you real quick. Somebody had asked you in your mailbag which is a bigger brand by you or Texas Tech.

Stu

Right.

Bruce Feldman

How did you answer?

Stu

Well, what they asked was you clearly only read the headline. That's okay. They've literally only asked.

Bruce Feldman

I had to read last week's mailbag to talk about what we were in the.

Stu

It's okay. It's early in the day. Yeah. Out here they asked, is there a school in the Big 12 that could become a big brand the way Texas and Oklahoma were? And the answer is probably not. But I did still look at kind of who would be in the contention. My. I, what I'm. What I said was, I think as of now, the biggest brand in the Big 12 is BYU because they're the only. Not the only one, but they're the one that has the national championship and the Heisman Trophy winner. Like there was a time when BYU was. Yeah. National following. And then they kind of went away.

Ralph Russo

They.

Stu

In the mountain, you know, they went to become independent.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

Which was like, I do think they're the most recognizable one. Could Texas Tech become that? Sure.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

Do what Indiana just did. Right. Like Indiana is a huge brand now because of what they did last year. Not, you know, 100 years of history like Texas or Oklahoma.

Bruce Feldman

Right.

Stu

But no, I think, you know the old helmet test. Right.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

If you go to 100 average college football fans in Montana or Idaho and you hold up a BYU helmet and you hold up a Texas Tech helmet, which one are more people are going to recognize? I would say byu.

Bruce Feldman

I'll buy that. All right, we are going to take a quick break here and then we'll come back and do some mailbag in the second segment. A little change up this week.

Stu

All right.

Bruce Feldman

And we're back.

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Stu

Hey, hold up.

Bruce Feldman

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Stu

It's your mind you know, it's your place, your life to love, to dream, to change. It's your world to understand the New York Times.

Bruce Feldman

Find out more@nytimes.com yourworld it's time for the Mailbag. Send your questions to theaudiblepodmail.com and we'll hand out a Trader Joe's gift card to the best emailer of the week. As always, we're gonna start with Ryan in Bloomfield Hills. Stuart. Love the pod and the recent 90s nostalgia content we have.

Stu

That's a lot of it.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah, a lot of it. A lot of 90s nostalgia on, on the athletic lately and it's been very good. Read up. Which program do you think would have benefited Most in the 90s from a 14 playoff? Okay, so there's an obvious one I'm just gonna get out of the way. Florida State finished in the top five 14 straight years. Most of that was, I believe it

Stu

was actually in the top four.

Bruce Feldman

Yes, actually, I think it was the top four.

Stu

So them.

Bruce Feldman

So clearly Bobby Bowden might be Nick Saban might have Nick Saban's resume if it was a different playoff system back in the 90s as opposed to just bowls and polls. So let's get it, let's get the, the answer to this question is Florida State. But you had another one.

Stu

Well, I don't think there's anybody else that you would look at and be like, oh, they would have dominated for the whole decade. Yeah, but you know, Miami at the beginning of the decade, I think probably could have won one more Right before the, what is it, the Pell Grants games. All this stuff came out, everything blew up. I think it could have been good for Lou Holtz, you know, the, the nine. So he wins one in 1988. He plays for another one against Colorado in 1990. And that's the clipping. Yeah, but like 92, 93. I'm going to get some of this wrong. But that's the era of like Jerome Bettis and Aaron Taylor. Like, it's some really good, really good players, but like, just a little bad luck. I think the 92 team lost one too many games. And the 93 team did beat the national champions.

Bruce Feldman

That's right. Speaking of Florida State.

Stu

So your Florida State, they beat Florida State and still miss because they lost to B.C. put them back together in a 14 playoff. And. And maybe it's like it would be the. What happened with Georgia and Alabama in 2021. Like, you know, maybe. No, it wouldn't be like that because in this scenario, Notre Dame has to beat them twice.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

But regardless, like, that team was capable of winning the national championship.

Bruce Feldman

Let me throw another one out there because I've heard this one before. Maybe John Cooper is thought of a little different at Ohio State because a couple of years there when they lost the Michigan at the end, they might have still squeaked into a four team playoff. Certainly the team that beat Jake Plummer in the, in the, on the Rose bowl, that certainly would have made a four team playoff because they were still in the mix, I think, for the national championship when everything played out in the bowl season. So yeah, maybe John Cooper is kind of like Ryan Dick.

Stu

Actually, I think that's a really good answer.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah. Lose to Michigan and go win a national championship. Maybe, maybe Ohio State's got a national

Stu

championship under John because they had this run from. It was from 95 to 98 that they were absolutely one of the two or three best programs in the country. But they just kept losing to Michigan and then the 98 team. So the one that really got away from like the 95 team was awesome. They lose to Ohio State and it cost them an undefeated seat. But like at some point they would have had to play a 95 Nebraska team. So we'll put that one to the side.

Bruce Feldman

Okay.

Stu

The one that really let it get away was 98. The 1998 Ohio State team was rolling. And then for some reason it was almost exactly like this happened to Urban Meyer's team too. Exact same opponent, Michigan State comes in.

Bruce Feldman

Oh, right, it was Michigan. It was, it was Saban.

Stu

Saban, Michigan State. But they're not very good. They're like a 500 team and they lose their home and that's it, they're out of the BCS championship race. Tennessee was a good team. They won the national championship. They were undefeated. But if Ohio State was in a 14 playoff, they could absolutely have won.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. John Cooper's legacy would be, I think, very different if it was a 14 playoff. All right, next question. Team me up here stuff.

Stu

Okay. Sorry for the US constantly looking down at our phones. It's a little bit of A different setup this year. This week, Brian Ronan. Hey, guys. Longtime listener of the pod. I enjoy the addition of Ralph Riso this year. He has brought a fresh voice to the pod, which I enjoy. We, we agree the World cup is using more technology than college or pro football. They have electronic sensors in the soccer ball. The sensors are used to assist the refs and replays. Like did the whole ball cross the goal line or whether the ball was touched. Do you see college football adding sensors to footballs in the future to help with spotting the ball after the completion of a play or whether the ball crossed the plane at the goal line? I do think it's odd that in this sport that has made so many other technological advancements, we still rely on three or four old guys holding a chain.

Bruce Feldman

A guy running in from the side like I think it was there.

Stu

Guy works at your local library from Monday to Friday. On Saturdays, he helps determine these massively important costs.

Bruce Feldman

It's truly a game of inches. Like an inch or 2, 6 inches is going to change this game. And I think it was right there. I think it was right there. So my guess is eventually we get to this. The answer, I think, Brian, is yes. The answer is yes, eventually we will get to it. And I guess I'm surprised we haven't already got to it, which just simply suggests to me that the technology isn't foolproof yet. It isn't ready yet. And you know, we were doing a little research during the break. So what we come up with.

Stu

So the NFL has a chip in the ball for all that they use for all the. Like next. Is it called Next Gen Stat? Like all the stats?

Bruce Feldman

Yeah, the stuff so and so is running dates.

Stu

But even they don't trust it enough to do it for spotting the ball. They don't necessarily think it's accurate enough yet. There's also some mild concerns about how does that affect the weight distribution of the ball. Even though a microchip, you would think, because it doesn't play hardly anything at all. And I've heard that too from, from college people. But you know, college football offic. I mean, replay technology, they've always been 15 years behind the NFL. And think about how long it took to get helmet communication.

Bruce Feldman

I mean, that won't happen though, anymore, right? Because we were moving past this idea that, well, if you have it in the, if you have it in the sec, you have to have it in the Mac. If you have it in the Big ten, you have to have it in fcs, right? I think I, I Wouldn't be surprised because for that was a lot of what held back some of the technology in that it couldn't be used throughout all of college football, at least all of Division 1. So yes, I think it probably will come to the NFL first, but I think it might not be as slow as you're given credit for just because the way things are moving now and SEC and the Big Ten kind of doing their own thing and given more leeway to do their own thing.

Stu

But that wouldn't be ideal because you have non conference games, you have bowl games, you have playoff games. Like you're telling me this conference, let's say the Big Ten decided on its own to put a chip in the ball, but the other conferences didn't. And then a Big Ten team plays at an SEC team and they don't get.

Bruce Feldman

Oh no. What I'm saying is like I think the power, at least the Big two, the SEC and the Big Ten and maybe just the power four would be capable of saying we can afford it. We're going to do it now when we go play a Mac team. Well, they're coming to our stadium, so we'll pay for the chip.

Stu

Right.

Bruce Feldman

And they'll. And, and when they play. But amongst themselves, we don't care what happens with them when they play amongst themselves.

Stu

I mean, the biggest reason this stuff moves slow is because they're so centralized.

Bruce Feldman

Yes.

Stu

Like everybody thinks the NCAA is in charge of officiating. Yes. And no. There's a coordinator of officials and he can like help you interpret the rules and da da, da. But like the SEC coordinator, officials still is still the boss of officiating in the sec. Right.

Bruce Feldman

So I think eventually we will get to this type of technology. But yes, Stu's right. A it's not there yet. Just like abs the balls and strikes challenges and baseball was like, is it coming? Is it coming? Is it coming? Bang. Okay, it's here. And I think you. But I do think it will take a little longer in college because of just who the hell's in charge of all this. All right, last question comes from Tanner Peterson, who is a apparently a relatively new listener. Started listening a couple you asked for

Stu

new emails, you got them.

Bruce Feldman

Started listening a few weeks ago. We asked for some new folks to chime in. So thank you very much, Tanner. Tanner is a lifelong Minnesota Gophers fan. I've accepted that we're pretty much middle of the Pack Power 4 program. I've come to expect seasons in the 6 and 6 to 8 and 4 range. I don't love it. But that's been the reality for most of my adult life. My friend and I always debate Minnesota should swing for the fence. Whether Minnesota should swing for the fences instead of settling for being consistently average. I've usually been on the conservative side of that argument, but after seeing Indiana's success, I'm starting to wonder. So should programs like Minnesota be more aggressive, or does that create a real risk of falling to the bottom of FBS and facing a long, expensive rebuild? I don't know about that. I mean, like. Like, I don't. I don't know if there's as much risk. I think maybe the risk is you take away from some of your other sports. But what do you think? I mean, I'd say go for it.

Stu

Yeah. I mean, I think the lesson of Indiana, everybody says, oh, you know, that means anybody can do it. Well, anybody can do it if they go all in the way Indiana did. I mean, I think the. It caught everybody, myself too, by surprise at first. Like, really, Indiana has that kind of money to spend on football? Where'd that come from? Right. And I don't think we still fully know the answer to that. But the first sign of, like, oh, they're serious. Was what. What they were paying Signetti.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

I mean, I think he got, you know, whatever they were paying him initially, he immediately got another raise and then another race. Yeah. And you. When it got to like, 11 million a year, you're like, really?

Bruce Feldman

During last year.

Stu

During last year, yeah.

Bruce Feldman

Season.

Stu

Paying his football coach.

Bruce Feldman

He got an extension to about 11 million during last season. They give him another one on.

Stu

They're paying the coordinators, you know.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Stu

So you can. There's. There's nothing stopping Minnesota, but, like, yeah, it's going to take an investment, and that's going to take the administration being, like, we are willing to. You know, there's always been a. What I am starting to see change, right. Is there was always a kind of taboo around the university subsidizing the athletic department. Right. Rutgers was always on this island of, like, my God, look how much money they have to take in subsidies. And now, like, I don't know, it's not unusual for. I think I just saw that Michigan's gonna be doing that at least for a year. Like, so you have to be comfortable with that idea that, like, money that could otherwise be going to the chemistry department is gonna go to the football

Bruce Feldman

program, but there's not that much money.

Stu

It's relative. I mean, I always say to people, like, in our World. You know, an athletic department making $200 million seems astronomical. Do you know what a tiny, tiny percentage that is?

Bruce Feldman

Like the university's overall budget. Exactly.

Stu

These are multibillion dollar enterprises.

Bruce Feldman

Right.

Stu

Then have an endowment on top of that. But. And you got to have a plan. I mean, I don't think you can just be like, all right, let's say they fire P. Do we're going to fire P.J. fleck. And it's just like balls to the wall. We're just going to win at football. Well, how are you going to do that? Like, what makes Minnesota unique, right? That they can, they can maximize. I do think it's always been like, I'm not going to say sleeping giant, but. But I don't know. There's a number of programs in the Big Ten that I've always thought are a little too accepting of mediocrity.

Bruce Feldman

You're getting to the point I was just about to make, which is. I think that's what. You know, I hate to bring it back to a 2014 playoff, but there is a little bit of this. Like, I think this is what Tony Petiti and the Big Ten administrators are trying to coax out of their people. Hey, we're making a lot of money now with this TV deal. And like, could you maybe like, look at the SEC schools and say, why can't we be like them? Like what? Like be all in. Yeah, all in on this. And listen, there's going to be some recruiting restrictions. When I say restrictions, not like literal restrictions. Limitations. Maybe because you're in the Midwest and you don't have as many football players up there to pick, but those barriers

Stu

are so much lower than that.

Bruce Feldman

That's what I'm saying. The money, the, the, the idea that we are just a global society.

Stu

We do have a whole country of transfer portals available. Right. You know, like, so I think, I mean, the biggest reason the SEC every old. It's because they cheated. No, no, no. It's because you could only build your roster through high school recruiting. And all the high school recruits are in the South. It's pretty simple, right? And, and that really hurt the Big Ten because literally the population has been migrating away from the Midwest to the south.

Bruce Feldman

And football culture down there, again, like you, you're building a different type of football player who's all in.

Stu

But Indiana is a state does not produce much talent. Football town, big time football talent didn't matter. Go get these kids from James Madison. Go get Mendoza, who grew up in Miami, which is a football happen like that. That's not the impediment anymore.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah. So, yeah. So our, our suggestion would be, yes, go all in on football. And that's Tony Petitti's suggestion to all those mid tier big 10 teams. Go all in on football. Go for it. Try to become your best self. Try to be the next Indiana. All right, who's getting in Trader Joe's $16 Trader Joe's gift card this week,

Stu

Stew, I mean, I think, you know, we asked for new blood and we got new blood. So let's reward Tanner, the Minnesota fan. I also just really liked his question. Yeah, we don't get a lot of Minnesota questions.

Bruce Feldman

We don't get a lot of Minnesota questions. So, Tanner, email your mailing address to theaudible podmail.com and we will send you that $16 Trader Joe's gift card. Thanks, everybody for the mailbag questions and send more of them for next week's show. Now for our audio listeners, you will next hear a interview with Bruce Feldman sitting down with Mike Golick Jr. Who's returning back to ESPN.

Stu

This year's girls trip to Telluride was the best. We one upped ourselves with my Sapphire Preferred card. And with five times points on Chase

Bruce Feldman

Travel, plus three times points on vacation

Stu

homes with top brands, we got this incredible cabin.

Bruce Feldman

It was a mansion.

Stu

And with three times the points on dining, we ordered a wagyu steak dinner. And that pistachio gelato was too good. So where should we go next year?

Mike Golick Jr.

I've got ideas.

Stu

Chase Sapphire preferred the card that's preferred for a reason.

Bruce Feldman

Cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

Mike Golick Jr.

All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's.

Bruce Feldman

Refreshers contain caffeine.

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Ralph Russo

All right. We're pleased to be joined By Mike Golick Jr. Man of many hats, TNT football analyst, college football analyst. We're going to get into also you and your dad's return to espn, obviously, former Notre Dame, the defensive offensive lineman.

Mike Golick Jr.

Sure. And dad's defense. We got both sides of the ball covered for you.

Ralph Russo

You got everything covered. Okay. So we're here at Big 12 media days. What are you most intrigued by about this conference? Coming off of all the Sourcebee talk of the summer and what's gone on for you as somebody's going to be doing the games, what jumps out with you?

Mike Golick Jr.

Yeah, well, I think first off, you know, Texas Tech has been clouded by that conversation over the last month. And you know, certainly it's going to be interesting what happens with Will Hammond, who's coming off an injury of his own now and is going to be taking up that mantle. But like you still look at them as probably the flag bearer for the conference given the depth of the rest of the roster, given the way the schedule lines up. So can they come out though and, and block out all that noise like that's a real thing, like that's that locker room has had to hear nothing but this talked about them in a season where they're coming off a CFP birth, winning the Big 12 and coming into this year as they thought, the favorite. So can they weather the storm on that? And then, you know, I think outside of them, you work from the top down in this conference. Utah, has Morgan Scally taken over after Kyle Whittingham? You've got a veteran quarterback that comes back. Can you maintain that standard of a program that dominates on the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball? You lose all five starters in your offensive line and bookended NFL tackles. Can you make that happen? BYU Year 2 with Bear Bachmeyer, you know, you have all these overtures for Kalani Sataki from these other programs. He makes everyone happy. And Pro bowl by Signing up to stage there. So can the, the upper crust of this conference that kind of separated itself last year in a conference that usually is all about cannibalization, these, these incredibly compelling games that sometimes knock teams out of playoff contention, can that group continue to maintain the standard of that? And who can rise up to meet it after that? You know, Kansas State's got the prodigal son returning home in a quarterback and Avery Johnson that's as talented as any. You'll see. Can he put that together? Can Houston and Willie Fritz go back to back 10 win seasons for the first time in school history and finish down the stretch in a way that they didn't last year? And I think it's still a conference where on any given Saturday you're going to see a lot of incredibly close games at the end. But you know, can a couple of those teams separate themselves and finally win a playoff game for this conference in a way that's eluded in the last two years?

Ralph Russo

As a guy, as a former offensive line, but also as a Joe Moore Award, you know, offensive offensive line guy, you know, right. You guys, I, as part of that committee, you look at the offensive line through a different lens than the rest of the media does. When you see Texas Tech invest the way they did in the trenches, not just on the D line, but obviously on the O line, are they different? Because obviously last year Utah had two high level prospects in the O line. BYU with Kalani Satake has been really, really physical. Is that the different difference maker you think between what separates the top of these, the, the, the Big 12 and the rest of the league in that the commitment to the trenches or is it maybe that overblown?

Mike Golick Jr.

No, I, I always think that, you know, regardless of the level of football, that foundation is to me the only way to build the house the right way. And I think, you know, if you look Texas Tech last year a lot was obviously written about hey quarterback, maybe you felt like once you got to the higher level competition you weren't working with the same thing. But I thought that offensive line, you know, at times wasn't given as many opportunities to impact the game just based off the structure of that offense, but also maybe fell short of looking like one of the best units in the league. You weigh that thought that maybe the price tag associated with some of the guys that came over on that would be. So no, I think that's always the first place you want to start with this. Even Utah, fascinated to see like that was a very different offense last year. It had so many bells and whistles, so much east west motion that you felt like even with all the those talented players up front, there weren't a lot of instances where you saw them get to lean on guys. And so it's one, the investment, but two, are you going to give them the opportunities to go out there and impact the game? And that's something that I thought Kalani, Sataki and, you know, BYU were able to do really well. It helps having a quarterback and Bear Bachm who's a huge plus runner and a physical one. Right. Who's going to be able to do and get up some of those between the tackles runs. But I think they do a consistent job of giving that group chance. And I think, I think that's always the differentiator, whether it's all right, what's the chief differentiator? Group of five to power four, what's the chief differentiator? And the contenders in a conference, it starts up front. So all those teams have a great baseline beginning.

Ralph Russo

Boy. So as a player, you guys played for the national title.

Mike Golick Jr.

Right.

Ralph Russo

You went up against Alabama. Obviously it didn't go great, but that team played for the national title.

Stu

Right.

Ralph Russo

As you look at your alma mater, Notre Dame, with Marcus Freeman there, I mean, you played with one of the most talented players Notre Dame's ever had and Quentin Nelson. Right. This is the same, same era. Do you look at the talent level of the caliber of athletes that they have? I don't know if it's beyond just the trenches as being, oh, man, they should be able to win a national title with how he's. With how Marcus Freeman's recruited. Yeah.

Mike Golick Jr.

You know, it's interesting because you mentioned like, you know, Q got there right after me. Zach Martin was a teammate of mine. Like, you've always had great offense and defensive line play at Notre Dame. And Marcus Freeman said, in this era we're still an O line D line program. They're 27 recruiting class sort of beguiles that I think they have four top 50 prospects all on the lines of scrimmage. But you look at this team, so I think that's in a good spot. The O line's a little bit more of a question mark than it's usually been for Notre Dame this year. In a way that is really fascinating to me. You've got a bunch of really good pieces coming back, but in a different order. We're kicking one guy out to right tackle. You've got a red shirt freshman getting ready to potentially start at left tackle. You Know your left tackle that started since he was a freshman's moving into garden is on all these preseason all American teams, but we haven't seen him play in the interior yet. But I think twofold is the difference for this team. One is they're still well built, well stocked along there, but the depth is in a different place defensively. I was out there for the spring game and you see wave after wave of the bodies they can throw at you on the defensive line in a way that's really impressive. You know, obviously Francisco Brution Gray, two huge portal acquisitions that feed into what they built there. But the differentiator of what Marcus has done to the program for me has been the way they recruit in the wide receiver room. But more than anything else, what he has done to defensive back play at Notre Dame, we couldn't strap up and play man coverage of people when I was in school, when I was watching Notre Dame football growing up. And the fact that you went from Benjamin Morrison, who I think was one of the first really great true pressman corners that Notre Dame's had, to Leonard Morris, who has matched and exceeded, that does it with more size and walks into this year as one of the best, if not the best defensive player in college football. It's changed the way they can play defense. It's been a fast, physical team that can lock you up on the back end and throw more at you in terms of the blitz package, some of the exotics they use. And so I think the way he's rebuilt that program on the perimeter on both sides of the football has been one of the real areas where it's his stamp. It's not. Not just Notre Dame with the through line as the trenches, but it's now, oh, you've got these skill position players and guys in the exterior of your teams, especially on defense that are some of the best in the country.

Ralph Russo

Yeah, I felt like when they had Kyle Hamilton, he felt like he was just such an outlier athletically, but then all like you guys just. Or not you guys. But Notre Dame just got a freshman coming in who looks like he's the same size, was like dominant in the All Star games. And you add him to Shuler and add him to like the secondary, it's. It's like eye popping where you would say when you guys, when you, your team played Alabama, I just remember sitting there and you're watching the game, you're like, oh my God, there's like different level athletes all over the field. Yeah, it looks like that's What Notre Dame is, is working with now.

Mike Golick Jr.

Yes, they that and that's the exact right way like when, when Kyle Hamilton was there, you know, when we had Harrison Smith back in the day or on that national title team. Tyler Ifrt a tight end like you saw. Oh, there's a Sunday guy or two there, but they were a little fewer and further between and maybe that depth wasn't there in the same spot. You're right now it's that embarrassment of riches that you've seen in the top programs all across the country that they're starting to be able to stockpile at a lot of those premium positions. And that's the difference, especially in this era. We got to win multiple games to win the title. You need depth to be able to respond to injury. You need depth to be able to go and play the course of a long season and make sure you get everyone through there the right way. And Marcus Freeman in this program have finally recruited the championship caliber of depth that you need for that.

Ralph Russo

Brian Kelly did obviously a terrific job for a long time there. Why do you think Marcus has been able to resonate maybe with a higher level of. Of some of the skill guys in recruiting obviously as the Ohio State pedigree from coming in. And there's certainly a charisma piece of it it from your perspective, why do you think it is is played so well and why Notre Dame is getting kids that maybe before may have been like, yeah, I'm not going to go there.

Mike Golick Jr.

Yeah, you know, it's. Well, I think it's a lot of factors and once, you know, the only constant in college football the last number of years has been changed. Right. So the world that Brian Kelly was recruiting in in Notre Dame is different than the one now where you've got nil, you've got the portal in the way it currently sits. And so, you know, I don't you compare too much. Like you said, Brian Kelly did so much good for Notre Dame. Him and Jack Swarbrick as a tandem at the athletic director changed the trajectory of that program in my lifetime. But I think with Marcus, one of the biggest sells for him has been the energy that he brought coming into this cheer point. There is a natural charisma. He's been a younger coach and so he's closer to where these guys want to go more recently than almost anyone else. And so he attacks that that recruitment, recruiting and being involved in that matters to them. These recruits, I think, feel like they get a personal relationship with their head coach and he's a Guy that we've seen has been able to go and take that energy, take that proof of concept with what they've done in the field, building on what Brian Kelly and the staff before him had done, and sell that to a lot of people. You know, so much has been made of all of the former players that are comfortable sending their sons to Marcus Freeman in Mass. I do think that speaks to just the level of trust that he's been able to build because the words have matched the action so often with him. In a way, that's been a huge help.

Ralph Russo

I mean, you're a legacy for Notre Dame. Your dad actually was a terrific player there. Your uncle is a great player there for.

Bruce Feldman

With.

Ralph Russo

With Marcus and the way he kind of gets people. I noticed this with, like your lacrosse program.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah, is.

Ralph Russo

Is a powerhouse. And there's some interesting ties with. With how they really leverage the Notre Dame community to, you know, it's a real strong commitment. Has there been carryover to that? I don't want to say, like, make more of this, but it's like, you know, kind of how the lacrosse brand has just really evolved and grown.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Ralph Russo

Is there some of that that. That Notre Dame has been able to tap into maybe in the football side of how to make connectivity with it

Mike Golick Jr.

in terms of the connectivity with like alumni base and. Yes. So that I always tell people, you know, when I first got to Notre Dame, we weren't doing that as much with football. You got so only so many hours in the day and so much going on. But I do remember watching my buddies, you know, my roommate in college, a guy named Sean Rogers, was an attackman on a lacrosse team. And when they would do an east coast swinging trips, they'd be at the New York Stock Exchange, they'd be meeting with guys on Wall street that were Notre Dame alums, they'd be forging those connections. And I think Notre Dame has, you know, towards the end of the Brian Kelly era and now through Marcus Freeman's area era, done a phenomenal job of getting players in touch with guys and industries. They show an interest in bringing back former players. Hunter Biven is a former player himself horseback at Notre Dame. And it does an outstanding job with Notre Dame's legacy weekend in the spring. But just in general of trying to make sure guys know, hey, you're welcome back here. And oh, by the way, we want you to meet the guys currently on the team because you've got such a unique resource in not only the student alumni base of the, you know, student population that Aren't athletes that go on to these incredible careers that are always willing to help out Notre Dame players, Notre Dame students coming out of the university, but you've got a lot of that in your football alumni base. You know, you and I both know my buddy Dane Crist, who played quarterback with me way back when, who's done a phenomenal job now in his professional life and is a guy that, you know, anyone would be a fool not to use. And so I, I think overall, yeah, it's a program that understands when you make that, that 4 for 40 promise and the recruiting pitch, you've got to follow through on that. And I think they've done a really good job of that. And in a market where everyone's got money now, everyone, you know, there's so many chances to play high level football. I do still think those other parts of the equation, if all things are equal, can be a big factor, especially if that's something that matters to the player.

Ralph Russo

Yeah. From the outside looking in, just knowing a bunch of old Notre Dame people and not so old, it feels like they have done a very good job of leveraging the brotherhood aspect of it. That is kind of different. I feel like then you can make a promise, but it feels like in this day and age of college football, it feels very transactional.

Advertisement Voice

Yeah.

Ralph Russo

And I don't know, like again, I'm probably know too much about the lacrosse side of the Notre Dame.

Mike Golick Jr.

No, I love it. Listen, you're speaking my language.

Ralph Russo

But it feels like they have leaned into it in a way that is pretty rare. I mean, just from at least on the college football side.

Mike Golick Jr.

Well, I mean, you think about for so long, the conversation around Notre Dame recruiting in my lifetime had been, hey, you know, there's only so much you can do with the academic restrictions that are there on campus. And you know, this last spring we heard Marcus Freeman name checking one of the, you know, folks in admissions for what they've done because now you've got guys with multiple years of eligibility that are being allowed to transfer in. Like, there's certainly been some of that. But it's Notre Dame saying, all right, that's a thing that's made us different in ways that have sometimes felt like maybe they've held Notre Dame back. It's also different in a way that should help sell that program, you know, to people in the right light. And they're not the only academic minded program in college football. We all know about Stanford and Duke and Northwestern and these teams that have had varying levels of success while offering that package. But, you know, for Notre Dame, I think there's always been a pride in that idea of saying you can do both of these things at an extremely high level. And right now, they really seem to be delivering on that.

Ralph Russo

Yeah, just the last thing I want to get into is. Is a couple of weeks back, you and your dad have a really cool viral moment. You grew up, literally at espn, right? So I remember, you know, growing up in, you know, as a young media person there with your dad's show was kind of the soundtrack of. If you lived in Connecticut.

Bruce Feldman

Yeah.

Ralph Russo

Of everything for you to see. You know, he left, and there's a lot of times where you feel like you can't go back to ESPN because it just feels like there's scar tissue there and everything else. When did you think, oh, man, this could be real? That we could probably go home together?

Mike Golick Jr.

You know, after we had started to have some of those initial conversations about it, when they, you know, reached out and we started wondering if. If that was something that everyone involved felt like could be good. You know, just how easy it felt. Again, it's still so many of the same people that, when we left four years ago, were a big part of our lives then. You know, people that we had grown up around. I mean, you know, Justin Craig, who works in audio there, was one of the producers on Mike and Mike back in the day. I always joke, like, I've known Justin since I was, like, 12 years old. So it was still. It felt so familiar. And, you know, obviously, the first time around was a little more complicated. Leaving with dad and coming back was always going to entail more for him than it would for me. You know, I'm trying to give myself a chance to last as long as this industry as he and so many of the people I grew up listening and watching to have. But. But, you know, he. He's got a legacy there already. He's left an indelible mark on sports radio, sports media. And so I knew that impact was going to be big. But I. I think he was really excited and invigorated about the opportunity and about the chance to go back to something that feels, you know, familiar and something that he knows so well with a lot of people that we trust and still care about.

Ralph Russo

I remember when I left, it was.

Bruce Feldman

There was a lot of, you know,

Ralph Russo

acrimony, and it was. You just kind of. You're not sure if you're pissed at this person or that person, and maybe when you see them, you don't talk to them right away. And then if you end up talking to them at some point, it just feels like the air out of the balloon gets popped and it's like you kind of feel a little bit better about it. And I have no idea how your dad felt about certain people there and everything like that, but I imagine it's got to be a little cathartic to be like nobody wants stress or drama kind of thing. And it's almost like a, a good way to, to turn the page and probably even better when you get to do it with your son.

Mike Golick Jr.

Yeah, well, and I think the good news with my dad is he's never been like grudges, drama, like, because he doesn't hold things back. He's an old school, face to face guy. If he has a problem with someone, he's going to address it, you know, straight up there and now and not let it linger. And so, you know, there weren't really a lot of bad feelings that had to be parsed through going back here. And there wasn't a lot of that because, because, you know, I think he's always handled his business the right way. I think he's always prided himself on doing that. And it, it's allowed these conversations now, going back to be really fun. It's allowed it to be energizing and hopeful and, you know, like you said, the chance to do it together. You know, last time around I was fortunate to get to work with dad in a professional capacity on air there, but I was the third chair on a morning show that was him and Trey Wingo. Like, that was Golic and Wingo, that was theirs. I was there to, you know, be a, you know, a young shit, for lack of a better term, and kind of poke and prod them and have some fun with that. But, you know, to now get to come back and have it be ours on airwaves that he's been so important to. And for me to get to play a, you know, small pardon, helping add to that legacy that he has there is just, you know, I think the older I've gotten, I've realized how unique that is. Like you said, I grew up there. I got the ESPN as a 26 year old who, you know, was, you know, understandably the nepotism conversation, all that stuff, like I didn't know what I didn't know, but I walked in with a good attitude and wanted to work hard and wanted to make the most of it. A decade later now, both professionally, I think I have a deeper appreciation for all that but then just personally, as a 37 year old who now has been handed two hours a day I get to spend with my dad at a time where life gets busy, everyone naturally kind of grows and expands as families. It's from that standpoint, I think, more powerful than.

Ralph Russo

I recognize how much, you know, like, it's hard to get around the nepotism piece when you're that young, especially when, you know, same name, same pedigree, you know. And then what I felt like, just from the outside of this looking in, is I felt like through social media, people got to see you and your personality.

Mike Golick Jr.

Yeah.

Ralph Russo

And. And we're like, oh, even if somebody was predisposed to be, like, skeptical, I feel like you have a lot of people in your corner because they kind of got to know you through your. Through maybe how you opened up either your voice on social media, your voice in a lot of other ways through the shows. Was that something that, like, just kind of evolved for you, or is that just. It's. It's kind of interesting to see, you know, to be honest, you know, a lot of people who grew up were like, they didn't like Notre Dame.

Mike Golick Jr.

Yeah.

Ralph Russo

Like, so you bring in that too now. Notre Dame's certainly a lot more likable, it feels like with Marcus Freeman, than Maybe it was 10 years ago or 20 years ago, but it seems like it's all kind of been an interesting journey there.

Stu

Yeah.

Mike Golick Jr.

You know, I, I think obviously I was never going to, like, deny the role that played in the start of my career. To do so, it'd be disingenuous and quite frankly, disrespectful. And I, I said then and I still agree now. I understood if people thought I shouldn't have been there and, you know, however they felt about it was justified. And I couldn't control that. What I could control was, was I serious about doing this? Was this something I actually cared about? Not just something to do that, you know, was going to get handed to me. And then just like when I was playing sports, because I remember, you know, coming up as a recruit, as legacy guy at a place like Notre Dame who was, you know, a three star offensive line recruit out of Connecticut. I got plenty of people that told me I was only there because my dad had, you know, was who he was. And I had been used to that conversation. And the way I always attacked it was, all right, you gotta put your head down and work. Like, I have to show people my peers because that's really who I cared about. Fans can say whatever they want. But, you know, my peers, my job was to earn their respect with the way that I worked and to go out there and do that. And then, you know, from the fan side of it, with social media, that's kind of a right place, right time thing. Like, like I came up where, you know, I call this like my generation that is millennials at the daywalkers. Like, I had life outside where I didn't have a smartphone with the world in my hand. And then 2011, 2012, when I was in college, we kind of got handed all that. And that was, I think, the golden era of Twitter, especially for sports, where I got to meet and talk to so many people through that whose work I respected and enjoyed. I got to give a lot of myself and that that space in a way that, you know, people did seem to respond well to, which is again, a testament to a foundation laid by my dad where so many people felt like they knew me because they talked about us so much on Mike and Mike and they had that built into the model. But social media, I do think again, was just, I was in the right place in the right time for the right version of that to be able to bring my personality there in a way that could help me professionally, personally. That was fun. That allowed me to, to, you know, meet and interact with people I never otherwise would have like, you know, it's. It all kind of was a crucible that came together at the right time.

Ralph Russo

Right. Good stuff. Well, we appreciate you taking the time joining us on the Audible today. We're going to watch it and listen to you and your dad back at espn. Mike, thanks for coming.

Mike Golick Jr.

Appreciate it.

Stu

Thanks.

Ralph Russo

Loose.

Bruce Feldman

All right. Appreciate Bruce coming in from Dallas with Gojo. Thanks for listening as always. Come back next week for more of the audible.

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