Millennial skin care, face food and what really works - episode 427

A

Hi, I'm Valerie, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetics industry. This is episode 427. I'm your host, Valerie George, and with me today is Peri Romanowski. Hi, Perry.

B

Hello, Valerie. Great to see you as always.

A

Great to see you as well. We have a lot of stuff to cover on today's show, including questions on what are our thoughts on herbal face food brand? Can eye creams make skin sensitive to the sun? Do we have recommendations for reducing C section scars? Have we ever looked at the brand? Timeless. And what do silymarin and aminopropyl ascorbyl phosphate do for skin? But first, set a name. Chit chat.

B

Valerie, what have you been up to? It's been a little while. I've been just up to my ears in kittens.

A

Yeah, I've seen the photos. Super cute.

B

Yeah, we finally got all the kittens fixed, and the mom, too. So now we have six fixed kittens in our house that we do not own.

A

Well, you might own a couple of them, right? I mean, you can't get rid of all of them.

B

You know, it's interesting. I think if you foster, like, one or two cats and you don't have one, I think you probably get more attached than if you foster, like, a bunch of them, because I like them all kind of the same, so you know what I mean? And I'm not going to keep them all. So I think it's harder to get attached to just, like, one when there's all these other ones, you know?

A

Yeah.

B

I don't know. Maybe I'm just not sentimental, but I

A

think you have your favorites.

B

I really don't. I like them all.

A

That's. I know you say that, but there's a couple you send me pictures of and you're like, oh, this is punishment, Poppy. Or, oh, this is blank. I can see it in your eyes. Yeah.

B

Yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see, because I have all my outdoor kitties, too. The porch kitties.

A

Well, nothing much up with me. It's hot here in Dallas, and I don't know if this is usual for May or if summers come early. I haven't lived here long enough to know. And so we've just kind of been hibernating inside. It's really too hot to do anything.

B

How's the insects there? In. Yeah, in. In.

A

Not good.

B

Texas.

A

Not good. I rate them Yeah, a lot of insects. I rate them a 1 out of 10. Terrible. So many in California, we could leave our windows open, our doors open, let fresh air in. It was pretty incredible. But here you can barely even open your door to walk in your house without flies rushing in. We have this crazy thing on our brick on our home. I don't know if it's a moth monster. It's awful. I told Mr. Cosmetic Chemist, please take a picture and pray it goes away overnight.

B

So, you know, I find that a lot of people do not like insects. I've always been sort of fascinated by them, but, you know, I was a biology major at one time because I just liked insects and animals, you know, not me.

A

And I've even thought about getting a bat house or something.

B

Oh, bats. To eat all the insects.

A

Yeah.

B

Thinking about it, they have a lot of bats in Austin. Did you know that?

A

Oh, maybe that makes sense. So they have some caves near there.

B

The bats all live under this bridge. Oh, yeah. It's a whole thing. Look up bats in Austin and remind

A

me not to take that bridge underneath it anyway.

B

Yeah.

A

Oh, my goodness. Well, let's head over to some feedback. We have a big show today. Listener comments.

B

It's your voice we want to hear. Welcome to listener feedback right here. One listener, Kelly, she said, I'm hoping for a review from Valerie on the Dr. Q sunblock. Given you are not easily swayed, your choice to purchase intrigued me.

A

I think she meant Dr. Few. I don't remember Dr. Q, but I definitely remember a Dr. Few. We had looked at their products, products, primarily their sunscreen, online, and I thought, wow, that looks really nice. Let me give it a try. And I received the package. They had thrown a couple product samples in there, which is really nice, so that I could try some of their other stuff. It's really important if you can't see a brand to be able to try it in other ways, especially when the brand is a little expensive. And just for me, I'm a little price sensitive when it comes to certain things. So I. Anyway, I tried the sunscreen. I'll say it was a nice sunscreen, but the thing about sunscreen is it's really personal. And when it comes to texture, some people like a really silky feel or some people like a topical film on the skin. For me personally, I like a waxy type layer on the skin because it reminds me not to touch my face. Like, hi, you have sunscreen on your face. Don't touch it. And that's helpful for me. But this product, there's just a few things I didn't like about it. It did sit on top of the skin in a layer, but it wasn't a waxy layer. It was kind of like an emolient layer. And I don't really like that type of feel. It's probably better for a more mature skin type, in my opinion. Or a skin type needing that kind of suppleness. The tint was also initially in the hand. I was like, wow, this is really dark. I don't know how this could be suitable for all skin tones, but it actually ended up rubbing out really nice. The thing I didn't like about the tint was it almost kind of had a bronzer appearance to it. Like, there was a little shimmy particle structure to it, which ends up making the skin look really nice, like kind of having this healthy glow and sheen. But for me, you know, I don't really like it. So even though the texture was nice, the tin ended up being okay. I just didn't really like the feel. And I probably won't continue to use it, actually. So if there's anyone in the US who wants it and doesn't mind that I took a handful of pumps out of it, I'll mail it to you, but just not for me. So I probably wouldn't repurchase, especially given the price.

B

Ah, gotcha. All right. Well, that's the challenge of formulating any skincare products, or sunscreen especially, is that people have different levels of tolerance of greasiness and stickiness. And so that's why there's so many products out there. Right?

A

Yeah. And it wasn't terrible. I'm still gonna wear it because it was also very expensive. But, yeah, I just feel like I probably wouldn't repurchase, especially given the price.

B

You know, at the New York suppliers day, they were giving out little samples of Supergoop spf. And my wife was very excited about getting those samples because she loves that brand.

A

I don't like Supergoop.

B

Oh.

A

Again, it's all about the texture. It feels right. I just don't like the feel of it on my skin. It's just not compatible.

B

You know, I was golfing last week and I actually put on sunscreen. But you know what I noticed? I'm getting around hole nine, hole ten, and my eyes start to sting.

A

I was gonna say. Yeah, you couldn't see. Ow, ow, ow. Classic.

B

I know. Yeah. What's that all about?

A

That's why I like those waxier textures. It gives it like this sting. Stay put if this. And you're like, okay, it's not going to migrate. It's going to stay right here. And I'm not going to touch my face to disrupt anything or transfer it back to my fingers. And so maybe that's what you need is an SPF with stay putiveness.

B

Or a big hat.

A

Or a big hat. Yeah.

B

I do have one other thing on sunscreen. I was just scrolling through, I don't know, either Instagram or TikTok or something like that. And you know what I saw?

A

What?

B

Some influencer in the science beauty science space who's got quite a big following there. They were putting on sunscreen, sprayed right on their face and then rubbed it in.

A

Yeah, two wrongs don't make a right.

B

Well, there's lots wrong on the socials about our industry, but we'll continue on to other feedback.

A

I think there was one listener that wrote in and had some feedback about you and how you don't believe anything works.

B

That is true. I saw this criticism by someone. I don't even know if they're a fan or they're probably not a fan, but they said that. I've been dismissed in the past where people say that I don't believe anything works. I think that is a complete misreading of my positions on stuff. I actually think beauty products in general, they all work. Like if you're buying a shampoo that will clean your hair, if you buy a hair conditioner that will make your hair easier to comb, it'll make it feel better and such. If you have dry skin and you put on a skin lotion that will work. They, they. If you have a sunless tanner that will make your skin brown. I can't think of a, you know, cleansers will clean, body washes will body wash and exfoliators will exfoliate. I think I have a hard time seeing why people say I don't think anything works. I think they all work.

A

So you're agreeing that if a product has a stated function, which is a requirement to label a product with a function in the world, so for example, shampoo, cleanser, et cetera, you believe it does those things to fit that function. But what I think you don't believe is necessarily the other marketing claims that go beyond utilitarian product function and more in the marketing world.

B

Yeah, there are things that are claimed that I don't believe are. Are working. There are lots of ingredients that are put in there and they're talked about, but they don't really do anything substantial. Enough that it's going to make a difference to you using the product. So I guess when I say things don't work like we last week we were talking about that. What, oxygenated water?

A

Yeah.

B

Now that's one that I would go all the way and say this doesn't do anything. I mean that technology, there one part where like you and I will disagree, then it's in the area, I think of active ingredients.

A

Yeah, I could see that.

B

Yeah. I generally don't think an active ingredient thrown into a moisturizer is going to provide more benefit than just the moisturizer itself. So I suppose people can look at that and say, oh, he doesn't think anything works. But no, I think the moisturizer part of that does work. It'll make your skin feel better, it'll make your skin look better temporarily. I just don't think that added extra ingredient that's supposed to get rid of your wrinkles over time. That's the kind of thing where I don't really see a lot of evidence for those things working.

A

Now is it that you don't see evidence of it working or you don't believe that a consumer would notice a difference? So it's maybe doing something, but not enough for the consumer to notice.

B

It's mostly that second one. It's mostly that a consumer will use a product and they won't notice a difference that wouldn't have happened anyway from when they started the product to where they end the product. I think that's mostly where it is there. I still think there is also some where it's not actually doing anything too. Yeah, because people, people put ingredients in their herbal extracts and even a lot of some active ingredients that don't penetrate the skin and get to the dermis where they would have to do something and they still put those things on. So I think it's a combination. But there is certainly some portion where an ingredient has been studied and they show some clinical result. But you know, you're not going to notice it over time. And I actually did see the comments that somebody said. Well, because they were talking. It was in response to our discussion of those red light devices which I think are complete. I don't like to say anything's a complete scam, but the use of them is dubious at best for sure.

A

Well, let's head over to Beauty news. Would you see this week I saw

B

this article and the way I get articles is like it says cosmetic chemist and it gets sent to me. But I saw this article from the IO From. I think it's from South Africa, actually. But it's science or scam. A biomedical scientist reveals which 2026 skincare trends are worth the hype. And of course they talked about the PDRN stuff, the, the sperm facials.

A

Did they believe that was worth the hype?

B

They said there's potential, but it's definitely not proven.

A

I have a question.

B

Yeah.

A

What's a reason a biomedical scientist would be able to opine on these things?

B

Well, I mean, that they use them. Right. I don't know what is extra special about somebody being a biomedical scientist being better than, I don't know, having any special expertise in this area. I suppose it's like asking a cardiologist what they think of dental work or, you know. Yeah, seems a little, I mean, I guess there's got to be some overlap. Right. And when you're talking about active ingredients, certainly in skincare, that's biomedical, right? Isn't it?

A

Yeah, but I think, I mean, I guess I know a lot about ingredients, not because I just went to school and I'm interested in science and I work in science like I work in the field. And while I understand science from a lot of other fields, meaning like the core principles of how science works, I wouldn't say I'm expertised enough to state whether or not something's worth the hype or really works because you don't really learn this type of science in school or you don't really learn how studies are truly done on ingredients until you're presented them and are formulating with them. So I just find it curious that that was the resource in terms of whether or not ingredients would work in skin.

B

Yeah. And I would also say even if all of your experience and knowledge of the industry comes from what you read from even scientific, published, peer reviewed stuff, that's just a different perspective that I would have with somebody who actually has to mix chemicals together, put formulas out into production and get them sold on shelves. It's completely different. And in some ways I think that probably has made me a little bit more jaded than the typical science communicator because I see lots of studies, especially from raw material suppliers who say, oh, this is a clinical study or this is scientific information that was peer reviewed. And I'm just skeptical of it because. Because I've seen all of this stuff over the years, tested it, you can't see any difference with regular consumers. And so for me it becomes a bit of science washing. And I think there are a lot of well meaning science washers out there where they try to talk about the science of the beauty industry when they're kind of ignoring how it's only kind of, just kind of science. Because there's a lot of times you do a study, an industry sponsored study, you run it and it doesn't show you the results you want. So you're certainly going to publish that. So that makes the science that you see published about beauty ingredients and beauty products is really one sided. And it's always going to be cheerleading on the side of saying that something is positive. You'll never see the other science stories where something didn't work.

A

You mentioned something really interesting, so you mentioned seeing the product in use. It's not just enough in my opinion to be able to say, oh well, I formulate with ingredients, therefore I know how they're going to perform. I think you have to gain a lot of experience in the in vitro testing, in in use testing, in consumer perception testing and doing those types of things. I think what made me, I don't mean to be like, oh, I'm a really great hair care formulator, but I think the thing that sets me apart from other people in the hair industry is that and not this is a broad sweeping statement, but versus people who just formulate hair is I worked in a facility with a salon in it and we saw 600 people per week or whatever the count was in terms of our products being applied and being able to go out and touch and feel and then also doing testing with third party research organizations to clinically validate the thing. So I think that's where I got my insight. I don't think I would be able to speak enough if I just formulated.

B

Yeah, it was interesting the salon stylist who worked at our company because we also had a test salon. It was kind of interesting the things that they believed because they didn't, they, they didn't just necessarily believe all the marketing stuff that a lot of salon stylists believe because they would actually have to test products or test prototypes versus products and, and they could. Whereas a lot of times salon stylists who are, you know, you get trained in what, the Aveda school or the Matrix School or something.

A

You go to a school.

B

Right. But it's the, the information is typically sponsored or the, the education is typically sponsored by a salon brand.

A

Yeah.

B

And they're certainly going to steer your knowledge towards that.

A

Exactly.

B

So. Yeah. Well, what else did he say? He said, you know, skin flooding, I guess it's a big social media obsession this year.

A

Oh My gosh. You heard us.

B

Skin flooding, I think. Overload your skin with heavy creams and serums.

A

Yeah. What goes around comes around. This was in, like, 10 years ago.

B

Right, right. And then the danger of DIY beauty hacks. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of bad stuff. Bad advice on Tic Tac. Surprise, surprise. You know what? It's surprising to me mostly is how much people believe what's on TikTok. Like, just anyone will say anything. They get a huge following because they say something inflammatory, you know, and it's just. It's amazing to me. But that's social media for you.

A

Exactly. Well, there was another article online in Health Digest, and it was about Boomer skincare advice Millennials absolutely can't stand. And I thought it would be fun to go through, because I'm a millennial and you're a boomer, right?

B

I am not a boomer. I am actually the forgotten generation in between we Gen Xers. I'm probably a Gen Xer.

A

I'm just joking about you being a boomer. But, yeah, I thought we.

B

I think Boomer is just the shortcut to just say old people.

A

I know, I know.

B

There you go. That's right. I'm still proudly a Gen Xer. Okay, what is the advice here? This is. Okay, it says. So I saw a title here. Millennials don't think that cold creams are worth all the hype.

A

Well, I would probably say I don't personally use a cold cream, but essentially a cold cream is a lotion that removes your makeup. And so in some kind of way, I think people are using this. It's just in different formats. So, for example, cleansing balms, instead of it being like a traditional emulsion, it is simply an anhydrous product with ethoxylated materials in it that help add some water, solubility. So they're doing the same thing, just in a different format. And I actually would probably prefer a cold cream over a cleansing balm, because I think cleansing balms are too waxy.

B

I've not used a cold cream, actually. I've tried them just for the experience, but it's certainly not part of my routine. What's another advice here? They say millennials don't want to feel that squeaky clean after their skincare routine.

A

I found this one interesting because when I was growing up, I recall my cousins, you know, putting mouthwash on their face to help dry up any oil on their skin and improve their acne. And, I mean, I don't think anyone wants really Tight, squeaky clean skin, skin. But I'm surprised, you know, they lumped millennials into this, because we. We did do practices growing up that did those types of things and maybe even into, like, your. Your generation, which I probably more align with. And maybe that's the problem. I kind of align with your generation because all my cousins and siblings are older. But, yeah, I would. I would agree with this one.

B

Yeah. I guess the idea is that if it doesn't. If your skin doesn't feel dry and tight, then it's still oily and not cool clean. Maybe that's where they're at. But I remember when I was, you know, going through high school and such, I was way too embarrassed to go to the grocery store drugstore to buy, like, anti acne medicine, Noxzema pads.

A

Yep.

B

Right. It was just a thing. Like a young boy at that time caring about his appearance. Like, that was not. It was kind of frowned on. Yeah.

A

Maybe that's what happened to you.

B

It could be. But, you know, I used to do this. I would take cotton balls and soak it in alcohol, and then I would dab that on my face, thinking that that was going to help my acne. And I don't know, somehow I got through it all. I was fortunate I didn't have a huge amount of acne just here and there.

A

Oh, me neither.

B

Another bit was, they say millennials believe that moisturizer is a must for oily skin.

A

I would say this is a new. I don't want to say it's a new concept, but I would say people caring about it is new. I think I would be surprised to think that. I find this one surprising. Like, as if, like, people older than millennials didn't know this and millennials and younger know it. Based on the current work that I would do, I would say there's a lot of people in the millennial age bracket that even think, wow, I have oily skin. I need to avoid a moisturizer, like a true moisturizer.

B

Oh, yeah. So you're thinking that this one is still around.

A

Correct. I know for a fact it's still around.

B

I was looking at this, all of these claims about what millennials think, and I think there's a big gap or it's a bell curve. Right. Like, there's still a huge number of millennials who would like that squeaky clean. Right. I don't think you can lump. All consumers or all generations say, oh, we don't want squeaky clean clean. I. I don't know that's what I. When I read these. That's what I thought of it. Because you couldn't say all boomers thought you should have squeaky clean skin either. Right. Some people don't like that.

A

The next one, the younger generation can't understand the older generation's obsession with tanning. I would highly disagree. I mean, I remember I didn't do this, but in my high school, I was a loser because I didn't go fake tanning. And I'm not talking a spray tan. I'm talking laying in a tanning bed. And so I think to say, like, wow, I can't believe older people are obsessed with being tan. I mean, I don't think that's true. I think a lot of millennials did do it, and they're paying the price now. And furthermore, Perry, I'm actually shocked that tanning is back in with younger people.

B

I would agree. Yeah, no, my nieces are younger, and she. My one niece just posted something about on Tic Tac. She was going to try out a product, and it was some sort of skin balm. And she does a before and after, and she shows she's got a tan. So she was using a tan accelerator. And I, like, I don't think. I don't think the younger generation has gotten over that idea about tanning.

A

No, not at all.

B

Millennias don't reach for walnut scrubs anymore.

A

I think this is true. I mean, walnut scrubs have gotten a bad rap, but guess what? I think they're kind of coming back in.

B

Well, you know, I would be curious. There was a brand I used to work on, the St. Ives Apricot Scrub.

A

Yep.

B

Which use walnut shells.

A

I thought of you.

B

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, that was very popular in the 80s and 90s. And it got. I guess it got less popular, but, yeah, it's coming back, huh?

A

I think it's coming back.

B

I can understand it, too, because when you're talking about using products that you can actually feel something there, you know, so that you feel a scrub, you feel it going on. Whereas you use, like, a glycolic acid one. It's much more subtle. It's subtly searing all your skin off you rather than actually you can feel it.

A

Oh, come on. There weren't enough walnut scrubs in, say, knives to feel anything. Barely. You could be like, oh, my God, I think I felt one.

B

No, no, there were. There was definitely enough in there that you felt like little pieces of shells or rocks on you. Yeah, there certainly were. I disagree with that.

A

I would say Barely. Maybe they watered it down over the years to help reduce.

B

Yeah, they probably went through some cost savings. I would think so. But I distinctly remember it's like. Felt like little granules of sand. But I was. We had just bought St. Ives, and our management said everyone's got to try these products. Okay. So I'm taking the walnut shell St. Ives scrub in the shower, and I, you know, put it all on my face and such and wash it off and make my face feel good. But you know what happened as it rinsed down? It rinsed down onto my chest, and then it got caught in my chest hair. And then I just had all these grains of sand in my chest hair. Which did not feel good.

A

No, not at all. Well, let's answer some questions. Our first question comes to us from Helen, a patron on Patreon. Hello. Thanks so much for great information. Any thoughts on herbal face food brand? Thanks as always, Helen, in South Carolina.

B

Herbal Face Care brand. So, herbal face food. I was not familiar with this brand, so I checked it out.

A

I was not familiar with it as well. I also checked it out, and I probably won't check it out again.

B

Says the best of plant science at work. No fillers, no chemicals, no bs. Well, I don't know what they're using for bs, but I wouldn't say they're devoid of that.

A

So when this question came in, Perry, I just googled herbal face food, and what came up was herbalfacefoods.com and so I actually spent a significant time on that website, and I was just like, I can't believe someone would write in about this product line. But then we connected, and you said, no, it's herbal face food without the S. Talk about brand confusion.

B

Yeah, I wonder how that is. I mean, I guess that could happen on the Internet, but I think somebody might have a copyright dispute there, right?

A

Oh, yeah, for sure. A trademark conflict. So we took a look, we poked around, and I actually was a little bit surprised by the pricing of this product, particularly given.

B

You know what amazes me about this? I'm looking at their lotion or their cream, for example. This cream has an ingredient list like the size of a short novel. This could have been like a Hemingway book. I mean, there are so many ingredients in here, it's amazing. But they say nothing but plants. You don't use nothing but plants. Now, to be fair, I looked in there. They have. They have guar gum, for example. Right? Now, guar gum does come from a guar bean, but it's. It's not like, it's in nature. You're gonna put it in your product? No, you have to, like, process it. So it's not synthetic, but it's not the natural form that's out there either.

A

Yeah, I. This isn't a traditional cream for sure.

B

Right.

A

This appears just to be a blend of different materials, and it's structured a little bit, at least based on the inky disclosure.

B

Yeah.

A

To have the consistency that it does. So if you're looking for more of a traditional type feel in a moisturizer, I don't think this is going to do it for you. I mean, there are different butters, but essentially it's. It's a balm with different powders creating some viscosity for it.

B

Yeah, I. I don't actually see any obvious, like, synthetic ingredients, but, you know, they have so many ingredients in here. And, you know, all of these have the potential to irritation, fragrance allergens, microbial contamination. There's a lot going on in here that I'd be worried about. You know, I'm looking at this cream, too. I'm like, where's the emulsifier? Like, how's this thing staying together?

A

Does it have banana in it?

B

I don't see banana in it.

A

Okay, not a serious question, but basically, Mr. Cosmetic Chemist makes a smoothie for me every day, and the quality varies. Sometimes it's, like, so spot on, and then other days it's separating, and I'm like, what is going on? And then I was watching him make it the other day, and I said, oh, you know, where's the banana that you put in it? And he said, oh, I don't put banana in it. I'm like, well, I've seen you put banana in it. And he said, oh, maybe I'm not consistently doing it. And I said, well, the banana's an emulsifier. It keeps the smoothie from separating. And he continues to pummel fruits into the blender. And he says, well, if banana's an emulsifier, why haven't you made any creams with it yet in your work?

B

Well, that is an astute question.

A

Yeah. And I didn't have a response, so I was. So anyway, just a little joke.

B

No, to be fair, banana. It's not a traditional emulsifier, I guess.

A

Well, I think what it does is it creates, like, a polysaccharide network, which essentially traps different smoothie ingredients for migrating throughout the system. And so not a true emulsion. More of, like, a stable gel network, I guess.

B

It's like a starch Like.

A

Exactly.

B

Hydroxyethocellulose or xanthan gum or something like that.

A

Exactly like that. So I don't see anything like this except for the guar gum in this formula.

B

Yeah. So I think as this brand goes, they say 100% plants. I don't see anything like super synthetic here.

A

No, but in terms of the pricing, Perry, I mean, it's $306.

B

Wow. Yeah.

A

For 1.7 ounces, which is. I mean, this is pretty expensive. And, I mean, maybe they have people who really enjoy it. I mean, they claim it's coveted, worshiped, whispered about. But I just. I wouldn't even buy this product to try it because of the price.

B

Right, right. And I can understand it's probably very pricey. I mean, if they're actually getting natural ingredients like this.

A

Here's my other problem with the cream. They claim it has a natural SPF 50 plus.

B

Oh, my. That's. That's not good.

A

No. And so if they're willing to do this stuff, I mean, who knows what else is? I mean, they're clearly not understanding regulations.

B

Right, right. Yeah, that's. That's a big red flag there.

A

So a Soap starting at 83. 97. I mean, I just don't believe that these. It's a bar of soap. I'm staring at it. I'm just not sure that these products would deliver anything a conventional product wouldn't at a lower price point.

B

Yeah. And then they have a bunch of serums and stuff, and. Yeah, I. Look, the reason synthetic cosmetics were invented is because they worked better than the natural stuff that was out there. And so I don't see us going backwards. It's like trying to, I don't know, replace the car with a horse and buggy. It's like, that's not tech. That's technology. We're beyond. And so that's what this is.

A

Yeah, I just. Based on the pricing and based on their claims, I would say it's mostly based on pricing. I would say this is a pass.

B

All right, so that's our thoughts there, Helen, and thank you so much for supporting us on Patreon. Our next question comes to us from Jamie. Hi, Beauty brains. Love the show and the banter. I recommend your podcast to all my friends. Well, thank you so much for that. I've been searching for an eye balm to help minimize wrinkles and put under and to refresh concealer to help prevent it from settling into fine lines. I was looking at the Tula's 24.7Power Swipe Hydrating Day and night treatment eyeball and notice it has lactic acid in it. Isn't that an exfoliant? Why would I want an exfoliant in an eyeball on thin skin? I've been seeing AHAs show up in other products too, where it seems odd. For example, the City Set Lightweight setting spray has citric acid in it. Can you help me understand what these ingredients are doing in these products and if they would make my skin sensitive to the sun? Lastly, are there any eyeballs that you recommend? I've been seeing people online saying they use Aquaphor sticks, but wouldn't the petrolatum in it smear my glasses? And anything you put on top or under it. I also question whether that's even safe to put so close to your eyes. Thanks, Jamie. So petrolatum close to your eyes? Actually, I think that is safe. Petrolatum has ingredient been tested for a long time.

A

Well, safe around the eyes, but I think the question is, can it migrate into your eyes and make it blurry for your vision? I don't think that's more of a safety question, really. I mean, it's posed as a safety question, but it should be a performance question, right?

B

That would be irritating for sure. Like annoying. Not irritation, but annoying for sure. So there is that problem. So that's kind of why you avoid Petrolatum products around your eyes.

A

I actually use a balm around my eyes sometimes, like in a stick format, and I find that it doesn't get into my eyes, but I'm also not putting it up towards the. The lash line. I'm still keeping a pretty safe distance away from the lashes and of course not putting it on my upper eyelid. So I think that helps from the migration a little bit. So, Jamie, I don't know if that's a tactic you can employ when considering a stick, but I like them because they kind of stay put. You obviously want something that's a little bit on the heavier, waxier side. So there's no migration of any oils throughout the day, but it's. It is safe to do. Now, has the product undergone ocular testing? I don't know, because if it's not intended to be used around the eye area, they probably wouldn't do ocular testing. That's not. That's not a common thing. So you kind of have to weigh that risk and see for yourself. But a product like Aquaphor has minimal type things in it, so I think you'll be okay. But going back to the eye cream and why you're noticing these acids? That's a really great question. In the United States and Canada, if you use exfoliating acids like AHAs, you have to have a sun safety warning on it because they exfoliate the skin, exposing newer skin to the sun, which can increase your risk for sunburn. But even though an acid is in a product, it doesn't necessarily mean it's providing that function.

B

Right. If they're. If you put lactic acid or citric acid in there, sometimes you'll put it in there not for the performance on the skin or hair. It's more for adjusting the ph and maintaining a ph in the formula. So it's an ancillary ingredient. It's not really a performance ingredient. So just because you see an ingredient in a formula doesn't mean it's in there to do some function on your skin or hair. It could be just for stabilizing the formula.

A

Exactly. And when you stabilize the formula or lower the ph, the acid is actually getting adjusted away and it's turning into a salt. It's kind of hard to explain, but once it's neutralizing something, it's floating back between its salt form of itself and its lactic acid form, ideally in equilibrium. And so it's not truly necessarily in there as. As the acid anymore. In terms of eye balms, to recommend going back to your aquaphor question or even just eye creams. You know, I myself am still searching for the perfect eye cream. I've never really found any where I'm like, holy cow, I'm actually going to buy this separate eye cream. I understand their value. Yes, they're just traditional lotions or moisturizers, and they may have. And they'll work in that function. But one thing that eye creams have are specific active ingredients for the under eye area. And maybe Perry doesn't believe a difference would be seen. But if you're an optimist in that respect, like me, you would want to use a dedicated eye cream. But honestly, I just use my moisturizer and I put it up towards my eyes. And when I need a little bit more, you know, reduction in trans epidermal water loss, that's when I put like a stick. But honestly, I just use like a lip balm.

B

I see that Cerave, they have an eye eye repair cream that they say, okay, I mean, if you. If you want to look for some options that are safe, look for ones that are specifically saying they're for around the eye. And just because it has lactic acid or citric acid. It's probably in there at low levels that are just adjusting the formula. Not for, you know, doing the exfoliating.

A

Exactly. Our next question comes to us from Zvana Zavana.

B

That was very well pronounced there. It says, hello, Valerie and Perry. I have two questions today. One is, do under eye patches really work or are they for show? And another is, I have been using Palmer's firming and toning lotion for my belly after three C sections. I notice it's helping firm the skin, but I can't help but notice my C section scar is still very noticeable. What do you recommend in terms of products to apply to the scar for less noticeability? Thank you. And I have switched shampoo to VO5 because Perry talks about it so much and I love it. Well, excellent. Well, you know what, lots of people love VO5. We used to sell about 40 million bottles a year. So you're not alone.

A

They either love it or love the price point. I was just kidding. It was fine. And the scents were always very nice.

B

Yeah, I think that's why people buy it, because they like the scents. And it's. It worked. It was cheap, it worked and it smelled good. So it's not gonna zhuzh up your hair, but you gotta use conditioner. But it's a good shampoo. All right. But her question was about first. Eye patches.

A

I think they really work to increase the water content of the under eye area. They typically contain humectants. They typically trap the humectants on your skin either from a woven patch or a non woven patch, or they are from a polysaccharide like gum, forming this little gel that goes on your under eye area. And I do think they work to significantly increase the water content of the skin whether they do anything else. You know, do they really work? I think that's kind of an open ended question. Do they work to moisturize or hydrate? Yes. Do they do other things? Unlikely, because. Yeah, yeah, it's unlikely. Just based on what I know from having produced eye patches for people and I see the formulas, I don't think they contain enough actives. They're primarily hydrating. So you could use any eye mask that you like for that purpose.

B

Right. I mean, when it comes to asking a question about does it really work? You have to say, well, what do you mean by work? So if you're looking to reduce dark circles under your eyes, probably not going to do much for that. Although it might make you feel like it's working because it's certainly going to moisturize your skin under. Under your eyes, and maybe that will make you make it feel better, and then that, in turn makes you feel better about what it looks like.

A

Exactly. And then in terms of the scar, I know right where you're at. I was just looking at my scar yesterday, and.

B

Oh, no.

A

Yeah. People react to scars very differently. And this is the way collagen and elastin reform in skin after it's been cut through. Usually you have upper skin in the outermost layers, grow and over and kind of fill. Fill the skin in, and then your collagen and elastin rebuilds. And you just need time in order for that to go away. I don't know if there's any topical products that really work, in my opinion. I know that my physical therapist recommended scar tape and to wear that for as long as possible during the day and continue to work on massaging the area and whatnot. But there's also a lot of evidence that getting microneedling works on it as well, and this helps rebuild the tissue. And so presumably, maybe you could see a facialist or someone who's experienced in, like, scar microneedling to help stimulate your collagen and elastin to rebuild. But using a topical on its own, I think is very difficult because it has to do with the dermis of your skin, which topical products don't really get to on their own.

B

Yeah. You know, I have a big scar where I cut my nose off with a chainsaw, and I haven't done anything to it, but I think over the years, it sort of fades a little bit away. Or maybe I'm just imagining that.

A

No, I see it.

B

Yeah. Yeah. When I squinkle my nose, you can see it. I also have a big scar on my arm that I got when I was a kid, and, you know, I smashed it into a mailbox at nighttime. And I came home and my mom saw me, and you know what her big salt for that was? She put four band aids on it. I mean, this is a scar that probably should have had a number of stitches, but, you know, we had a lot of kids, and it was the 80s, and I stopped crying. So she's like, ah, I guess he's fine. Yeah.

A

No. Wow, that's funny. Yeah. So, Svanja, I would recommend seeing someone who can do some more deeper treatments for you on the scar.

B

Yeah. But temper your expectations, because this is not a problem that cosmetic science has

A

really solved, and it'll take a long time to go away as well. Yeah. All right. Our next Question comes to us from Karen first, long time loyal fan. Have you looked at the brand? Timeless, seems to be independent, has good reviews. Interested in your thoughts? My skin, sensitive, aging and frankly yes, perhaps foolishly, I'm always looking for quality and efficiency at various price points. Many thanks for this and all your great work.

B

Well, thank you. I looked at this and they have. Boy, they went to the bright color school of package design. Yeah, it looks really interesting as things go. This looks like a gamish of every hot active ingredient in skincare that you can find. So they have a coenzyme Q10 serum, they have a matrixyl 3000 serum, and then they have the matrixyl synth 6. Is that that snake one derived from snake venom?

A

No, it's just, it's just another peptide part of the Matrixyl family. Actually I think this one's two peptides.

B

So anyway, they all focus on advanced peptides for visible Results. Although Kioen's MQ10 isn't really considered a peptide, right?

A

No, it's a CO factor in cellular metabolism. But that's okay. Maybe it has a peptide in it. Oh, I see it also contains matrixyl 3000.

B

Oh sure. And then they have a, they have product like vitamin C, ferulic acid blend product.

A

I wonder if it smells like hot dog water like the skinceuticals product.

B

That's right. And as far as pricing goes, I

A

think it's pretty reasonable in my opinion for a bottle. When you think about other products on the market, they appear to have a lot of reviews, satisfactory customers. I am a fan. You know, I don't know if you'll see a difference on the peptides, but these appear to be like simple blends and so it's an inexpensive add to your routine for sure. In general, peptides, if they can get through the skin, are really great with collagen and elastin production. And of course they'll fill in the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles because they'll hide. They are in systems that hydrate and plump the skin. So I think, I think it's worth a try.

B

Yeah, I certainly, I wouldn't worry about them the same way I'd worry about that, that natural plant brand. Right?

A

Yeah.

B

And yeah, I agree with you. The pricing here at least is not like outrageous like some brands that we see. These like 30 bucks now is it going to do much more for you than moisturizing? Well, you know, Mr. Skeptical is remains that way. However, these are all the most popular types of active ingredients at the moment and they're affordable. So it's not. It's certainly. Give it a try if you. If you'd like to do that.

A

Exactly. I'd give it a try too. Last question from Jessica.

B

Jessica says could you please review the Serum Tidy Pores from the brand Authentic Ego. I'm curious about their use of silymarin and aminopropyl ascorbyl phosphate. I haven't heard much about these ingredients. What do these ingredients do for skin? Is there scientific evidence to support them? And what percentage do they need to be used in it to be effective? Those are all good questions. Silymarin, isn't that.

A

It's milk thistle.

B

Some sort of fungus. Okay, yeah.

A

Milk thistle, yeah. So it depends on what part of the plant the milk thistle comes from, whether it does anything. We went to the actual product page for this material and it's just a generic extract. So without knowing where the plant extract comes from, what portion of the plant, or if it's a standardized extract to contain the amount of antioxidants and other metabolic materials that milk thistle would be reported to have. If it, it's not standardized, we don't know if it. It's actually doing anything. So that's a really hard ask. I know that this serum, I would

B

say it is interesting about this serum is that they list percentages of a lot of ingredients. So they say that 2% betaine and you know, 2% glycerol glucoside. But then they say there's 0.5% silymarin, 0.5% glycerinic acid, which is actually a lot.

A

That's a licorice root extract. It's very potent. So I think that's actually if It's a pure 100% active material, that would be really incredible.

B

Yeah. So just that marketing strategy of telling people the percentages is an interesting one to me.

A

Well, it is. I mean, it's interesting. But again, like if, if you're a consumer and you're looking at this, do you know what any. You might look and say, wow, half a percent of silyrene, that's kind of low. And it actually probably would be no different than 2% if it was a non standardized extract and it just had whatever in it. But when you look at glyceritinic acid, you might say 0.5% is low. But that's actually a lot for a licorice root material and they are pretty effective on skin, depending which licorice root extractor looking at. So I think it's actually a bad strategy for a brand because the consumer has no idea. Also, a consumer has no idea what 5% acetaminoethoxyethanol is. But it's a material called Alpha Moist AC Humectant, and it's essentially a humectant that delivers moisture for over 30 hours, which is how the brand is able to make that claim. So presumably they're using the study level. So in a way, it's good. In a way, I think it shoots the brand in the foot.

B

Well, yeah, because, you know, if you're clever enough, you'll just add up those numbers and you'll realize that 88% of this is water.

A

Yeah. We'll put it on our moisture analyzer. And then lactic acid, interestingly enough, they actually call it out as a ph adjuster. Does not exfoliate. And presumably they did this not to put the aha warning on the product.

B

Right. Yeah.

A

I do want to make a comment about the Portulaca oleracea extract, which is the purslane extract. This is part of the Barbara Sturm line. She uses it in every product. And it's actually an interesting material because it has data to show that it helps increase antioxidant efficacy of different materials, primarily vitamins. See, over time. So it helps reduce oxidation of other materials because it has a standardized glutathione content.

B

So then it becomes more of a product stabilizer than what it's delivering to skin.

A

Exactly. It's for the other materials. So it's. Yeah, that's quite an interesting material. And presumably it's to help the aminopropyl ascorbyl phosphate, which is an interesting choice. 0.1% for that material, which may seem low, but it is low. And I'm not sure even if it were higher, it would be doing anything. There's probably some in vitro data that shows it works at 0.1%. Again, I'm not really familiar with it, but it is a stable form of vitamin C. And generally the stable forms aren't as effective.

B

Yeah, but overall, this formula, anyways, I guess it's mostly water and these active ingredients, betaine, to keep it all together. I agree with you. Like, giving consumers this kind of information, it's either gonna wow them or it's not gonna mean much to them, you know?

A

Yeah, but this looks like a nice serum. I mean, I'd give it a try. And that's. I mean, for $45, it seems approachable. Yeah, but probably just hydrating the skin.

B

Probably hydration. So. And then as far as what does ascorbyl phosphate do? It's anti aging, anti wrinkle. Isn't it a version of vitamin C?

A

Yep. It's that stabilized form. And again, the more stabilized you make a vitamin C, the less effective it is. You really have to get it to penetrate into the skin where it gets enzymatically converted to active vitamin C. Yeah,

B

the fact that it can get oxidized is what makes it a good ingredient.

A

Exactly.

B

So it gets oxidized and it's not a good ingredient anymore. And the silymarin, that's moisturizing antioxidant properties.

A

Yeah, yeah.

B

It seems like you're double dipping there or something. But that's why those are in there.

A

Exactly.

B

Speaking of why they're in there, why is this music playing?

A

Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review that will help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

B

Hey, speaking of beauty questions, the Beauty Brains are on Patreon. If you appreciate the fact that we don't take paid advertisers and sponsorship stuff, that's only because the Beauty Brains are sponsored or supported by our listeners. So if you want to keep supporting the show, head on over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. You can also leave us comments there and leave your questions there because we give a higher priority to people who are our patrons.

A

If you have a question, record it on your smartphone and email it to the beautybrains gmail.com or you can just use the form in the show notes of this episode or call 1-872-216-1856. We never answer, but we listen.

B

I know, but you will hear my sunny voice on the recording machine so you can leave your message right there.

A

Don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts on Instagram or the Beauty Brains 2018 on experts at Beauty Brains on Blue Sky Worth the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page, a TikTok and a YouTube.

B

And we have kittens.

A

Thanks again for listening everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

B

Thanks everyone. Kittens.