The Ben Shapiro Show, Ep. 2345 - Trump Declares War…On Jerome Powell

Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Ben Shapiro (The Daily Wire)

Overview

This episode centers on President Trump's Department of Justice initiating an unprecedented investigation into Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. Ben Shapiro explores the economic, political, and legal ramifications of this move, the political schisms it exposes, and the potential implications for Federal Reserve independence and American markets. Key guests offer expert input on issues including ICE operations in Minneapolis and the rapidly changing situation in Iran, with a high-profile national security perspective.

Key Discussion Points

1. DOJ Investigation of Fed Chair Jerome Powell

• The Situation:
  The Trump DOJ is targeting Jerome Powell for alleged cost overruns in the Federal Reserve building reconstruction. Powell, in a rare public rebuttal, accuses the administration of using prosecutorial threats to force the Fed to lower interest rates—raising questions about Fed independence (00:00–05:00).

  “Powell accused the administration of using the threat of criminal prosecution to pressure the Fed into lowering rates. He framed the Justice Department investigation as nothing less than a head on challenge to the Fed's ability to operate free of political control.” — Ben Shapiro (02:12)

• Political Response:
  Both Democrats and Republicans react with concern:

  • Rep. French Hill: Warns this could undermine monetary policy independence.
  • Sen. Kevin Cramer: Criticizes Powell’s track record but doubts he's a criminal.
  • Sen. Lisa Murkowski: Calls the probe “an attempt at coercion” and suggests Congress should investigate the DOJ if cost overruns are the sole basis (05:00–07:30).

  “If the Federal Reserve loses its independence, the stability of our markets and the broader economy will suffer.” — Senator Lisa Murkowski (06:50)

• Ben’s Take:
  Ben argues for the necessity of Fed independence and criticizes efforts to politicize monetary policy, highlighting the dangers for economic stability and investor trust.

  “Once monetary policy becomes a pure tool of whichever party is in power, you start to have a real problem…” — Ben Shapiro (04:29)

• Implications for GOP:
  The move is seen as “needlessly chaotic” and possibly damaging for Republicans heading into the midterms. Current polling shows a historic high in political independents—45%—signaling disillusionment with both major parties (07:30–09:30).

2. Economic Analysis & Housing Markets

• Mortgage Rates and Administration Moves:
  Mortgage rates have dropped below 6% following a $200 billion government purchase of mortgage bonds, but the DOJ probe on Powell has reversed much of the positive market response (11:11–11:51).

  “The market has already undone all of the good of lower rates that happened off the back of that $200 billion mortgage bond purchase announcement.” — Economic Analyst (11:25)

• Rents and Affordability Trends:
  Ben notes rent decreases and concessions in Sunbelt cities (Phoenix, Denver, Charlotte, etc.) due to overbuilding. Corporate ownership is not directly correlated with rising rents; supply is the key driver (12:00–13:30).

  “When you increase the supply and the demand stabilizes, then the price goes down. I know. Shocking.” — Ben Shapiro (13:00)

• Homebuilding and AI:
  New AI/robotics-driven methods are slashing homebuilding costs, with companies claiming up to 40% reductions. This could produce major benefits for the middle class (15:44–16:00).

  “We're reducing the cost of home building by up to 40%. That's going to make a huge difference for middle class Americans.” — Industry Expert on AI and Housing (15:44)

• Middle-Class Mobility:
  The “shrinking middle class” narrative is contested; data shows a steady movement of American families into the upper-middle-class income bracket (16:00–16:30).

  “More families in 2024 were above the core middle class threshold, 35%, than below it.” — Ben Shapiro (16:20)

• Potential AI Bubble:
  Apple announces its use of Google’s Gemini AI for Siri. Ben flags possible bubble dynamics and the risks that come with rapid industry consolidation (16:30–17:00).

3. Immigration Enforcement and ICE Operations in Minnesota

Interview with Trisha McLaughlin, DHS Asst. Secretary for Public Affairs

Timestamps: 20:07–29:37

• Scope and Targets:
  ICE is conducting large-scale operations against “the worst criminal illegal aliens.” Recent efforts have netted thousands, including killers, gang members, and suspected terrorists (20:23–21:07).

  “Our top priority are these gang members. Our murderers, our rapists, child pedophiles... There’s been over 1,000 new known or suspected terrorists that we’ve arrested in the last year.” — Trisha McLaughlin (20:23)

• Sanctuary Cities and ICE Visibility:
  McLaughlin explains that sanctuary policies block ICE from accessing local jails, forcing more visible, city-wide sweeps to apprehend criminals (21:33–22:41).

  “If Chicago picks up a criminal legal alien… they’re not allowed to release them to ICE for eventual deportation. What happens is that person will serve a certain amount of time, then they’ll be released back onto the streets.” — Trisha McLaughlin (21:45)

• Recent Minnesota Operation and Protests:
  Recent ICE actions in Minneapolis resulted in the arrest of 2,000 illegal aliens in five weeks, alongside federal investigations into massive fraud (22:56–24:00).

• Renee Good Shooting Incident:
  The conversation addresses the controversial fatal shooting during an ICE operation; McLaughlin stresses that while tragic, the officer acted to defend his life after being hit by a car driven by a protester (24:00–26:17).

  “She weaponized her vehicle. She used it as a deadly weapon. And our officer… responded as his training instructs him to do.” — Trisha McLaughlin (25:30)

• Political Rhetoric and Public Safety:
  McLaughlin blasts politicians and activists who compare ICE to the Gestapo as “legally illiterate,” and links the rhetoric to a spike in violence and assaults against agents (26:33–27:49).

  “If people don't like ICE enforcing the rule of law… these politicians should change the law or they can lobby Congress to change the law. But continuing to demonize and vilify our law enforcement, you’re going to see more incidents like this…” — Trisha McLaughlin (26:33)

• Red vs. Blue State Cooperation:
  Large deportations occur in red states thanks to local cooperation, resulting in fewer confrontations and safer operations for the public and agents alike (27:49–29:31).

  “In red states… if they cooperate with ICE, then these operations tend to go off pretty easily.” — Ben Shapiro (27:49)

4. Update on Iran & US Foreign Policy

Interview with Ret. Vice Admiral Robert Harward, National Security Expert

Timestamps: 36:21–47:36

• Iranian Regime Instability:
  Widespread anti-government protests have reached new heights, with support from all sectors. Harward believes regime collapse is now a question of “when,” not “if” (36:42–38:10).

  “It's got to happen from within... Everyone’s behind it now. So you have a mass you’d not been before.” — Vice Admiral Robert Harward (36:54)

• US Role and Leverage:
  The Trump administration is considering “strong options”—strikes, sanctions, and possibly arming dissidents (41:48–44:10).

  “If I could get a million guns and 10 million rounds of ammo into the dissidents so that they're armed to fight… that presents a big threat to the IRGC.” — Vice Admiral Robert Harward (42:35)

• Potential Iranian Counterstrikes:
  Harward believes Iranian threats to retaliate militarily lack real teeth and would backfire, justifying further US action (45:19–46:41).

• Ultimate Outlook:
  Both Harward and Shapiro predict regime change is coming, provided the US and allies seize the opportunity to support authentic Iranian resistance (47:06–47:28).

  “We need to support the Iranian people and bring this to closure.” — Vice Admiral Robert Harward (47:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fed independence:

  “Once monetary policy becomes a pure tool of whichever party is in power, you start to have a real problem...” — Ben Shapiro (04:29)

• On ICE operations and sanctuary cities:

  “If Chicago picks up a criminal legal alien… then they’re released back onto the streets.” — Trisha McLaughlin (21:45)

• On Iranian regime's grip:

  “It's got to happen from within… everyone’s behind it now.” — Vice Admiral Robert Harward (36:54)

• Iranian dissident on US gun rights:

  “This would never happen in the United States. … because you guys have guns.” — Vice Admiral Robert Harward’s anecdote (42:35)

Segment Timestamps (Key Content Only)

• 00:00–09:30: DOJ vs. Jerome Powell, Fed independence, Republican and Democrat reactions
• 09:30–11:00: Partisan divides and rising independents
• 11:11–16:30: US housing market, mortgage rates, bond purchases, rent trends, AI impacting homebuilding
• 20:07–29:37: ICE operations and protests in Minneapolis, interview with Trisha McLaughlin (DHS)
• 36:21–47:36: Iran’s instability and US policy debate, interview with Vice Admiral Harward

Tone & Style

Throughout, Ben Shapiro’s tone is rapid, assertive, and uncompromisingly conservative—“principled” and analytical, with a focus on fact breakdown and a willingness to challenge both left- and right-wing talking points. Guest experts provide direct, sometimes dramatic insights reflecting law enforcement and national security realities.

Summary

This episode offers a comprehensive look at the tension between political authority and institutional independence in the US, namely through the DOJ’s investigation of Jerome Powell and the broader implications for American democracy and financial markets. Alongside, Shapiro brings in voices from Homeland Security and military intelligence to address immigration enforcement—and the risk of urban unrest—and the tipping point facing Iran’s regime, underlining the episode's focus on consequential, “hard-hitting” news.

For listeners seeking a deep-dive into the latest high-stakes episodes in American economic, immigration, and foreign policy, this episode of The Ben Shapiro Show lays out both the facts and the ideological battles behind the headlines.