The Ben Shapiro Show

Episode 2348: What I Learned From Sitting With Gavin Newsom
Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Ben Shapiro (The Daily Wire)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Ben Shapiro reflects on his recent two-hour interview with California Governor Gavin Newsom, held on Newsom’s own podcast in Sacramento. Shapiro unpacks the interaction, analyzing Newsom’s political persona, policy stances, and rhetorical approach as a likely Democratic frontrunner for the 2028 presidential race. The episode then pivots to major news items: ongoing unrest and federal immigration enforcement in Minneapolis (including the potential invocation of the Insurrection Act), the brutal crackdown in Iran, U.S. policy toward Venezuela, and a lengthy interview with Dr. Mehmet Oz on the Trump administration's new health care initiatives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sitting Down with Gavin Newsom: Impressions and Themes

(00:00–05:00 | 14:07–15:09)

• Personal Impressions:

  • Shapiro describes Newsom as personable and very quick on his feet, skillful at sidestepping critiques and defending his record.
  • Suggests Newsom uses his moderate positions on contentious issues as a bid to appeal to the broader electorate for 2028.

• Political Analysis:

  • Shapiro argues Newsom’s positioning as an “anti-Trump” and his aggressive social media presence make him a prime Democratic contender.
  • He notes the inherent challenge facing Democrats: the need to moderate on certain issues to win a general election, but a base that often demands more radical positions.

    “The biggest problem for Gavin Newsom…is that in order for him to appeal to the broad middle…he is going to have to jettison some core Democratic positions that are just unpopular with the American people.” (03:12)

• Newsom’s Political Ambiguity:

  • Raises the question: Is Newsom truly a moderate, a radical, or simply a political chameleon?
  • Shapiro urges listeners to assess for themselves, playing clips to highlight Newsom “sticking and moving” around difficult policy positions.

2. Showdown on California’s Governance & Newsom’s Record

(05:00–07:00; 18:49–19:07)

• Housing & Cost of Living:

  • Shapiro presses Newsom on California’s high housing costs, population loss, and homelessness, arguing state policies are to blame.
  • Newsom concedes overpromising and underdelivering is a problem but repeatedly pushes responsibility onto local officials.

  “Overpromising and underdelivering is a bad road to make policy.” – Gavin Newsom (05:53)

  • Discussion highlights the disconnect between Newsom’s rhetoric of moderation and California’s record on spending, DEI, trans issues, and immigration.

• Taxes and Economic Health:

  • Newsom touts California’s progressive tax system as “fair,” but Shapiro retorts that this focus on fairness may be detrimental to economic growth and innovation.
  • Shapiro argues statistics are manipulated to downplay California’s population exodus; warns against misleading per capita framing.

  “The goal of tax policy is presumably to create a thriving state…not to make you feel better in your innards.” (19:07)

3. Moderation vs. Radicalism—Key Issues and Newsom’s Responses

A. Immigration and ICE
(10:16–11:24; 25:31–27:05)

• ICE & Sanctuary Policy:

  • Shapiro asks about Newsom’s stance after his press office called a controversial ICE shooting “state-sponsored terrorism”—Newsom distances himself from that rhetoric.

  • On abolishing ICE, Newsom distances himself from the progressive “defund ICE” movement and emphasizes cooperation in cases of violent criminals.

    “Our ICE officers obviously are not terrorists. A tragic situation is not state sponsored terrorism.” – Gavin Newsom (10:45)

    “Absolutely, I disagreed with abolishing ICE.” – Gavin Newsom (11:11)

• Sanctuary State Debate:

  • Newsom claims California cooperates with ICE on violent criminals; Shapiro clarifies the limits of such cooperation and points to local resistance to federal enforcement.

    “California has cooperated with more ICE transfers probably than any other state in the country…when it comes to violent criminals.” – Gavin Newsom (25:43)

B. Iran, Israel, and Democratic Foreign Policy
(11:24–13:56)

• On Iran and Solidarity with Protesters:

  • Newsom laments the lack of Democratic Party pressure/support for Iranian protesters, claims he issued clear statements but wishes more Democrats would do the same.

    “Where are the members of the Democratic Party protesting and wearing pins for the protesters in Iran who are getting mowed down maybe by the tens of thousands this week?” – Gavin Newsom (11:40)

    “I’d like to see more Democrats.” – Gavin Newsom (11:51)

• Israel and Accusations of Genocide:

  • When pressed about fellow Democrats accusing Israel of genocide, Newsom says, “There is no standard by which Israel committed a genocide in Gaza” but hesitates to forcefully rebuke the rhetoric in his party.

C. Transgender Policy and Parental Rights
(14:07–15:49)

• Shapiro challenges Newsom on California’s gender and school policies.
• Newsom sidesteps direct answers, expressing sympathy for “anyone who’s suffering” but not engaging Shapiro’s core biological critique.
• Shapiro points out Newsom’s attempt to “make radical issues secondary,” potentially alienating progressives.

D. Election Legitimacy and Trump
(17:15–17:46)

• Shapiro probes Newsom’s statements on the risk of the 2028 election being “stolen.”

• Newsom insists the threat is real but justifies running by arguing “we have agency, we can shape the future.”

• Shapiro notes this is one area where Newsom “stakes his flag on the left.”

  “If I believe [the election will be at risk]…we have agency, we can shape the future.” – Gavin Newsom (17:22–17:31)

4. The Problem with Party Extremes

(27:05–29:00)

• Shapiro contends that both major parties are torn between their radical bases and the moderate stances needed to win general elections.

• He doubts the Republican or Democratic nominee will “waltz” to victory in 2028, instead predicting a dogfight centered around who can best embody normalcy and the American mainstream.

  “Maybe if I tacked toward the middle, maybe what Americans really want is normalcy… As we are seeing from polling data, more Americans are identifying as independent, and the reason for that is because all they want is return to normalcy.” – Ben Shapiro (28:20)

Additional Major Segments

5. National News: ICE Protests & Insurrection Act

(30:51–35:17)

• Immigration Enforcement Unrest in Minneapolis:

  • President Trump considers invoking the Insurrection Act to quell unrest over ICE enforcement.

  • DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and ICE Chief Todd Lyons blame local Minnesota leaders for escalating rhetoric and releasing criminals, arguing this fuels violence against federal agents.

    “This kind of violence is perpetuated by what we hear the governor saying, what we hear the mayor in Minneapolis saying… Governor Tim Walz has my phone number… You let your city burn down in 2020. Don’t do it again.” – Kristi Noem (31:43)

    “That’s not peaceful protesting. That’s anarchy, plain and simple.” – Todd Lyons (33:57)

6. Iran Update: Suppression and U.S. Response

(35:17–42:04)

• Iranian regime violently crushes protests, shuts down Internet.
• Thousands reported dead; international uncertainty over U.S. military response.
• Shapiro anticipates Trump will not “repeat Barack Obama’s mistake” of inaction, but urges caution in calculating military/strategic efficacy.

7. Venezuela: U.S. Policy and Opposition Support

(42:04–47:05)

• Opposition leader Maria Corina Machado meets President Trump, presents him with Nobel Peace Prize (a symbolic gesture).
• U.S. strategic support in Venezuela focuses on regime change and restraining oil exports.

8. Interview with Dr. Mehmet Oz: Health Care Reform

(47:05–55:29)

• Main Themes: Lowering drug prices, making insurance more accountable, system transparency, and “putting patients first.”

  • Drug prices: Push for “most favored nation” pricing; end American “subsidization” of global medicine.

    “We know and you know that you’ve been getting away with price gouging…This President will not tolerate any more… Fix the problem.” – Dr. Oz (42:20)

  • Insurance: More money into Health Savings Accounts, promoting private market competition, challenging regulatory burdens from Obamacare/ACA.

    “We have got to make this real insurance. It's a discount card right now.” – Dr. Oz (50:22)

  • Transparency: Hospitals and insurers must post prices, value, and options for real consumer choice.

    “If you’re not sitting at the table, you’re on the menu. And that’s what’s happened to the American consumer.” – Dr. Oz (53:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Newsom’s Political Style:

  “Anybody who sits down in front of you who wants to win your vote is a person who could be masquerading as a moderate, could be masquerading as an extremist, could be just masquerading all the time, right? You just don’t know.” – Ben Shapiro (04:13)

• On the State of U.S. Politics:

  “Maybe what Americans really want is normalcy. Now, maybe the primary structure prevents normalcy from actually taking the floor. But…more Americans are identifying as independent… all they want is a return to normalcy.” – Ben Shapiro (28:20)

• On Foreign Policy and Iran:

  “The regime has massacred its own people in large numbers. The President of the United States, of course, said people should maintain their presence out in the streets. That help was on its way.” – Ben Shapiro (36:07)

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–05:00: Shapiro’s introduction, outlining his sit-down with Newsom
• 05:53: Newsom hedge on housing crisis and overpromising in California
• 10:16–11:24: Exchange about ICE, “state-sponsored terrorism” rhetoric, and Newsom’s disavowals
• 11:38–12:17: Newsom critiques Democratic silence on Iran, distances himself from “abolish ICE” rhetoric
• 12:45–14:07: Shapiro/Neswom on Israel, genocide claims, and party rhetoric
• 15:09–15:49: Discussion on trans policy, social transitioning in CA schools
• 17:15–17:46: Debate on legitimacy of future elections and “Trump threat”
• 18:49–19:07: California taxes, population exodus, and distortion in statistics
• 25:31–27:05: Detailed immigration policy, CA-ICE cooperation discussion
• 30:51–35:17: Insurrection Act, unrest in Minnesota, ICE Director and DHS commentary
• 35:17–42:04: Iran’s crackdown, U.S. potential responses
• 42:04–47:05: U.S.–Venezuela relations, Machado’s Nobel Peace Prize gesture
• 47:05–55:29: Interview with Dr. Oz on health care policy

Conclusion

This episode gives listeners a behind-the-scenes analysis of Gavin Newsom’s political persona, positioning him as a skillful but ambiguous moderate straddling the ideological line as he eyes a presidential run. Shapiro’s critical breakdown examines where Newsom’s rhetoric diverges from his state’s record and from the Democratic base. The episode also delivers comprehensive commentary on ICE enforcement unrest, global crises in Iran and Venezuela, and new health care policies from Trump’s administration. Shapiro concludes that both major parties face internal rifts between radical activists and the moderate mainstream—a tension that will likely make 2028 a razor-close contest.

For further engagement:

• Listen to Newsom's original podcast episode for firsthand context.
• Visit the White House website (as referenced) for full details on the new health care plan.