S3E11: Branding the Bots with Hotkoin and Tom Farkas

Tony Baker

Foreign.

Ryan Hunter

Hey, everyone.

Justin

Welcome back to the HAVOC Rundown. I'm Justin, and tonight we have a really special episode for you. We are joined by the artist known as Hot Coin, whose work has become a huge part of the visual identity around Combat Robotics. If you have spent time around this sport, you have probably seen Hakoin's art on team. Logos, stickers, social posts, and all kinds of robot related artwork. This one is also personal for us because Hakoin is the artist who designed the HAVOC rundown logo and the artwork for rebrand. So tonight is a chance to talk with someone whose work we admire and someone who helped shape how this show looks and feels. So before we get into the full episode, I want to officially welcome Hakoin to have a Rundown hawk Coin. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

Hot Coin

It's a pleasure to be here, Justin. I'm having a great time so far.

Justin

Very cool. Tonight's Rundown roundtable is going to be all about artistic expression and combat robotics. We're going to talk about art, branding, personality, style, and the tension between building purely for function and building something that expresses a vision. And to help us with that conversation, we have the perfect fifth chair. Tom Farkas is joining us. Tom is known for building first drink of the day, positively hysterical. And his new bot, Golump, which he just showed off in June. He is someone who's always brought a very distinct artistic style into the robots he builds. Tom, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for filling in our fifth chair and talking with us about.

Tom Farkas

Thanks for inviting me back.

Justin

He is not alone, though. We have the usual crew joining us as well. First up, he is my brother, our game master, Game corner mastermind, and the person most likely to turn a simple question into a format with rules, It's Ryan Hunter.

Ryan Hunter

Hey, that's an accusation that I will beat

Justin

next. He's always ready with a sharp question, a calm read on the chaos, and probably one thing he is keeping secret until the exact worst time. It's Thomas Carroll.

Thomas Carroll

If you could see me right now, I would look two dimensional, just like Hakoi's drawings.

Ryan Hunter

Hey.

Justin

And also with us tonight, our creative powerhouse, fantasy trophy architect, and the man who understands that sometimes the bit is the build. It's Tony Baker. Hey, everyone. Like usual on our episodes, before we get into the real stuff, we like to have our icebreaker. So we are going to wander over to that weird corner of our show called Ryan's Game Corner. Brian, take it away.

Ryan Hunter

All right, this week I have an announcement of something Very exciting for me. I got myself a new part time consulting gig. I got a communication from one of those other realities out there and got contracted by somebody claiming to be the mad mage Archimodeus or Archie, I don't know, whatever he calls himself. He has been listening to the podcast, has really been enjoying the game corner a lot of. He wants me to do a little designing for him. He is building his wizard's tower at the far end of the ethereal sea and needs some puzzles to keep the riff raff out. So I need all of you to test one of them out before I send it to him. All right, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to describe you a full description of this room and you just need to find your way out.

Thomas Carroll

I'm really concerned.

Ryan Hunter

You are not full blown adventurers. You don't have magic, you don't have swords, nothing like that. You are just yourselves in this scenario. Normal, like peasants. All right?

Tom Farkas

The real magic is the friends we meet along the way. Exactly.

Ryan Hunter

Once I finish describing the setting, I will put on a clock for 10 minutes and it's all of your jobs to tell me what you want to do and get out before the time is up. Classic TTRPG kind of thing. All right. I'm not going to roll dice or anything. You're just describing to me what you want to do. Are there any questions?

Hot Coin

Do we have waivers?

Tony Baker

Are we allowed to throw Thomas into a door?

Hot Coin

Yes, I hope so.

Ryan Hunter

Okay.

Thomas Carroll

That's my only way out.

Hot Coin

Beautiful.

Ryan Hunter

All right, so everybody ready for the description?

Justin

Yeah, go ahead.

Thomas Carroll

Ready as I'll ever be.

Tony Baker

Okay.

Ryan Hunter

You find yourselves in a circular chamber carved from dark gray stone. Moisture beads along the walls, and somewhere in the darkness above, you could hear water dripping. The air is cool, wet, and carries the unmistakable smell of a laboratory that has not seen cleaning in forever. Directly across from you as you enter, you see a heavy wooden door reinforced with thick iron bands. And in the very center you see a single brass keyhole. To your right is a cluttered, a cluttered alchemical workstation. The wooden table holds five glass potion vials, each filled with a different colored liquid. Besides them sits a potted plant whose leaves have grown wild and tangled, a small wooden night figure and a collection of dusty glassware. Slumped in a chair. Besides the table, is a human skeleton wearing a stained lab coat, and one hand is clutching a large glass. Glass. High above you, suspended from a chain, hanging from the center of the chamber, nearly 60ft above the floor, is a small brass Key. As you step in the room, the stone doorway behind you suddenly slams shut and melds back into the wall. All right. I am about to start your timer. You can tell me what you would like to do.

Tony Baker

I tell Thomas to go pick the lock.

Thomas Carroll

I am taking that key and holding it dear because that's the only thing I know in this world.

Ryan Hunter

The key is 60ft above you.

Thomas Carroll

I'm taking it.

Justin

I put on the lab coat.

Ryan Hunter

Okay, you go over and you put on the lab coat. It smells dank and wet. You have a lab coat.

Hot Coin

Do we know what kind of.

Ryan Hunter

Thomas.

Thomas Carroll

I'm yelling at the key furiously until it comes down to me.

Ryan Hunter

It does not move. Hot coin. What are you saying?

Hot Coin

Do we know what kind of plant is in the corner?

Ryan Hunter

You go over to it. It looks like a little fern.

Hot Coin

And you said something about a knight statue.

Ryan Hunter

Yes. There is a small wooden knight statue. Once again, on the table is five potion bottles filled with different colored liquids. A fern in a pot, a wooden knight. And glassware. Along with the flask that the skeleton is holding.

Tony Baker

I go look at the little the tubes of liquid to see if there's any words on them. Okay.

Ryan Hunter

Or colors. The tubes of liquid do not have any words on them. However, each of them is looks like a different liquid. You see one that is red with gold flakes. A blue with a swirling twinkle. Twinkle like glitter inside of it. One that is clear with almost like a rainbow shine. One that is green with like almost a paint like viscosity to it. And one that is yellow that is putting off like just a little bit of its own ambient light.

Justin

Okay, two questions. So there's five potions, right?

Hot Coin

Yes.

Justin

Okay, there's five of us. Do all of us have to get out of this room or just one of us?

Ryan Hunter

All of you.

Thomas Carroll

I'm going to drink a potion at random.

Justin

I was going to say each of us drink a potion and then one of them has got to do something and then it will die. Pour it into the plant.

Ryan Hunter

Which potion would you like to drink, Thomas?

Thomas Carroll

Guys, which one looks the most intimidating and deadly?

Tom Farkas

The one with the llama.

Thomas Carroll

The yellow one glowing with the bomb on it.

Tom Farkas

The llama.

Thomas Carroll

Oh, yeah. Okay, I'll drink the llama potion.

Hot Coin

I think I know what that does.

Justin

Are we?

Thomas Carroll

But I'm only drinking half of it. Just in case. It's really good and we need it for something else.

Tony Baker

Okay.

Ryan Hunter

Pick a number between one and five.

Hot Coin

Thomas Llama.

Tom Farkas

Kuzco's poison.

Ryan Hunter

Who else would like to do something?

Thomas Carroll

Wait. Do I just not drink the potion?

Ryan Hunter

No, I want to know which one you're grabbing and drinking.

Thomas Carroll

Well, then why was I told there's a llama on it?

Ryan Hunter

There's no llama on it.

Hot Coin

There's no llama.

Thomas Carroll

Which one is the llama potion? You should tell me.

Hot Coin

I don't think there's a llama potion. But I remember distinctly a glitter potion. So.

Ryan Hunter

Yes, glitter one.

Justin

The night sky one is the one that. Yeah, drink the night sky 1.

Ryan Hunter

You take the blue potion and you drink half of it. After a few moments, you feel your skin become sticky and starts sticking to your clothing. And the vial in your hand.

Thomas Carroll

I can climb the wall to the key.

Tony Baker

Go, Thomas.

Hot Coin

He could climb the wall to the key.

Tom Farkas

Spider man it.

Justin

Yeah, Spider man it. Let's go.

Ryan Hunter

Okay, 60ft long, Thomas. You go over to the wall and you start climbing. However, once you get to the top, you realize that the key is now still about 10ft away from you in the center of the room.

Tony Baker

Thomas, just get to the top and jump.

Thomas Carroll

Yeah, you know what? Okay, guys, get ready to catch me. I'm gonna jump and grab.

Justin

Hey, we don't have any hp as far as I know. We don't have any HP or get

Ryan Hunter

hurt if you fall towards us.

Thomas Carroll

The risk I'm gonna have to take for the this key.

Tony Baker

He didn't say we live to exit the room.

Justin

That's. I was literally about to say exactly what Tony said.

Thomas Carroll

I'm the tank. I'm tanking the. The enemies for you.

Tony Baker

He just said we had to get out of the room.

Thomas Carroll

I will as far as I can to that key.

Hot Coin

Yeah. We turn you to soup, and we pass you underneath the door.

Justin

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Can. Can one of us. Can one of another one of us take the potion, crawl up there, and throw Thomas to the key?

Hot Coin

I think he has the potion. So he would have to drop it and one of us would have to catch it.

Tony Baker

Yeah, it still sucked him. It's so Ryan.

Thomas Carroll

I can't drop it.

Tony Baker

Hey, Ryan, I want to take the glowing potion and pour it into the plant.

Ryan Hunter

Okay, you pour a little bit of the glowing potion into the plant. Suddenly there is a popping sound, and now there's two plants.

Hot Coin

Oh, I should have.

Justin

I drink the glowing potion, there is

Ryan Hunter

a popping sound, and there is a second one of you standing there motionless.

Justin

I drink more of the potion,

Ryan Hunter

nothing happens.

Tony Baker

You were going to climb on top of yourself.

Justin

Someone else try. Because if we get enough people, we can stand on top of each other.

Hot Coin

Wait, so what are the remaining potions?

Ryan Hunter

So far, the yellow potion has been drank and the blue potion has been drank. There's still a red, a clear, and a green potion.

Tony Baker

Okay, so I have two plants. So I'm gonna pour one of the red ones and one of the plants.

Ryan Hunter

Okay. The. You pour the red one into the. Into the plant. There is a thunderous clap. The plant goes shooting up about 10ft and then clatters to the ground and explodes. Explodes as in it hit the ground too hard.

Hot Coin

Okay.

Justin

How many feet did it go into the air?

Ryan Hunter

About 10ft.

Tony Baker

Hey, Thomas, climb back down. Take the red potion up with you, and then when you get to where the key is, drink the red potion.

Justin

I love that we're just using Thomas.

Thomas Carroll

No, I volunteered for this. I'm the tank. Someone's got to tank the damage.

Hot Coin

We literally have a spare adjusted. But we're using Thomas for this.

Thomas Carroll

No, the spare is for liquefying. Don't worry about it. I will climb down, take the red potion with me.

Ryan Hunter

Okay.

Thomas Carroll

Climb back up, and when I'm at the top, aim myself towards the key and consume a small amount of red potion.

Ryan Hunter

Okay. You climb up the wall, you consume a little bit of the red potion, you explode sideways from the wall, grab the key and fall to the floor.

Tony Baker

Now the key.

Ryan Hunter

Congratulations, you have the key.

Thomas Carroll

Hey. Okay, I'm done.

Justin

I take the key off of Thomas dead body and then go unlock the door.

Ryan Hunter

It is stuck to Thomas's dead body.

Justin

I dragged Thomas's dead body over.

Hot Coin

I would think he's really stuck to the floor. Like this is a sticky hand on a string kind of situation.

Ryan Hunter

All right. You have solved my puzzle. That was really quick.

Justin

Good job.

Ryan Hunter

What good job?

Tom Farkas

Did I drink the clear potion anyway?

Ryan Hunter

Yeah, I was actually about to say so as a reward for this, if we play this game again, I will honor you could take one potion with you into the next room.

Hot Coin

Oh, okay.

Tony Baker

We still had what? Clear green.

Justin

I like Tom's idea of taking the clear one. I feel like that's like an invisibility or something like that.

Thomas Carroll

It's just water.

Ryan Hunter

Would you like to test it before you take it? Oh, yeah.

Justin

Pour a little bit on a plant.

Ryan Hunter

You pour a little bit on a plant, it appears. Nothing seems to happen.

Thomas Carroll

It's water.

Ryan Hunter

It's water.

Tony Baker

We totally forgot about the little statue

Ryan Hunter

that we never use.

Thomas Carroll

Wait, can we just break stuff?

Ryan Hunter

No. So would you like to take the clear potion?

Thomas Carroll

I like to kick the statue.

Hot Coin

Aren't you dead?

Ryan Hunter

Yeah, he's dead. He's dead and stuck to the floor. Into the wall, into the door.

Hot Coin

All right, could we pour a little bit of him into, like, spare Justin, and he could walk around like a homunculus or something?

Tony Baker

Pour a little bit of the green in the spare Justin. Yeah, yeah, pour the red.

Thomas Carroll

On my dead body. I'll explode again.

Ryan Hunter

All right, which potion would you like as a reward?

Justin

Take the clear one. That's fine. Okay.

Ryan Hunter

You get a potion of lightness. Congratulations. All right, thank you. I will bring this back to the mad Mage as. As some testing. I might have to adjust some things for when it fully gets built, but thank you. Thank you very much. All right, get out of my game corner. Let's actually do the interview. All right.

Justin

So it is a. It is a perfect encapsulation of D and D that Ryan probably had this thing in his head of how he thought it was going to go, and we completely came in and destroyed every concept of what he thought was going to happen.

Thomas Carroll

He hasn't played D and D with the guy that climbs because there's no

Tony Baker

way he expected us to blow Thomas off a wall.

Ryan Hunter

The true way I thought that, like, I was designing it to be completely solved was you were supposed to combine two of the potions inside of the flask and then use them as a combined thing.

Justin

We did combine two of the. We combined two of the flasks in the Thomas.

Tony Baker

Yes.

Thomas Carroll

I am the flask.

Ryan Hunter

Thomas the flask.

Justin

We made an exploding spider Thomas. That's how we solved your puzzle.

Ryan Hunter

I hear that's how the next movie ends.

Thomas Carroll

It's true.

Justin

Okay, so let's move into tonight's rundown roundtable. So, common robotics is usually talked about as an engineering sport. We talk about dry power, weapon geometry, forks, armor, ground game, all that kind of stuff. But there is another part of the sport that matters just as much as how people connect with it. The art, the logos, the stickers, the character designs, the color choices, the names, the way a robot looks. All of that kind of stuff goes into the identity of a robot as it goes into a cage. So tonight we want to talk about artistic expression and combat robotics before we get to the interview. Just talking about Hakoin in particular. Just quickly touch on this subject to just flesh it out a little bit. And that's why one of the reasons I wanted to have Tom on, because Tom is known as one of the mad geniuses of the sport who brings his own unique artistic style to these amazing robots like Princess Chelsea, like, first drink of the day, and of course, positively hysterical. So that's kind of the direction of the conversation I wanted to have in the roundtable section. So the first question that I have is, what makes combat robotics such an interesting subject for artwork? And what. What kind of sparks that artistic need? Because we see this in not just robots that are specifically for just the artistic expression. We also see it in robots like Maximizer. Jake has his own artistic expression he puts into that robot. We see it in Turbo Fiend. We see it in a lot of robots, the themes and everything, the color choices and stuff that goes into it. So what. What is that connection there? Like, what is that? What makes it such an interesting subject for. For the artwork that goes into some of these robots?

Tom Farkas

Do you want this one first?

Justin

Yeah, whoever wants to. I'm just kind of throwing subjects out there that we can like.

Tom Farkas

Yeah, I haven't really thought about it.

Hot Coin

Yeah, well, I have a question if that. If that would help facilitate things.

Justin

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Hot Coin

So in this case, are we. Are we kind of separating, like, expression from, like, an engineering perspective and expression from, like a. Like a purely visual design or conceptual perspective? Or are we, like, combining those two into one big thing and calling it, like, a artistic expression?

Justin

So I wanted to kind of shine the spotlight on the artistic expression because a lot of the conversation around Copy Robotics goes into the engineering side. How deadly a robot is, how its weapon works, all that kind of stuff. But there's the other side of it, especially when we start about. Start talking about the personalities of the builders and the personalities that they put into these robots when they put them into the arena, that has the artistic style to it. And I bring up Jake and Maximizer specifically because he has a specific style for himself and his robot that he applies, not. That's outside of just the engineering mindset of the robot, if that makes sense. So where does that spark come from? Because I. I mean, people could just make robots and just make them look like every other robot. So where does the artistic style come from, the artistic expression that is there? Tom, why don't you talk about, like, what makes you want to make something like positivity. Hysterical. What makes you want to make something like Princess Chelsea?

Ryan Hunter

Like, where.

Justin

Where's the inspiration there when you start making a robot like that, where you're just like, I have this idea. I don't know if it's going to be competitive, but it's. It's an idea that's in my head that I want to put into the cage.

Tom Farkas

You want something that stands out, and anybody can make a two wheel drive or four wheel Drive vert. But it's like an expression of yourself. Like, I'm not that competitive of a person, but I'm more, you know, a little weird. So you gotta build. You know, I want to build something that's a little weird, too. That kind of shows off my personality and just trying something new. And even if it's not going to be competitive, it. You know, maybe somebody else looks at that and says, oh, wait, this is a good start. Like, the first Big Wheel bot. Like, how they've iterated on that and event now it's almost meta now at this point, but just then, maybe it catches somebody's attention. Like, some random person on the Internet will see a clip of Paws or Clockwork Princess and say, oh, wait, it's not just a bunch of engineering nerds. It can be for artistic expression as well.

Tony Baker

I will tell you, I'm trying to build a robot. And, like, I've literally been doing this for a while. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna build a robot. And that's the number one thing that's holding me up, is that I keep going. Okay, I want. I know the basic, like, weapon and stuff I want, but I'm like, I don't want it just to look like a box. Like, I want it to look cool. Okay, how do I do that? Like, it's that whole, like, I'm not like that. I'm paralyzed with the artistic thing.

Ryan Hunter

It's like, I want to figure out

Tony Baker

the way to do this, and I'm like. And I'm not going to build it until I have something that I'm truly in love with. I'm like, this looks cool, right?

Tom Farkas

Or you just lean into the box, Just make it look like a cardboard Amazon box.

Justin

Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm kind of talking about is the logo, the. The personality that a team puts into themselves and puts into the robot that they're presenting. Hive Asteria is a good example of this. Was the. The be theme for everything and the robots, just the artistic expression that goes into having that idea and then shaping the bots around the B theme so that that becomes an identity.

Ryan Hunter

How.

Justin

How much more, like, how important is that when it comes to putting a robot into versus how well the robot actually does? And I don't know if I'm. I'm expressing this question as well as I can, but the. The brand of the bot, like, you

Tom Farkas

know, I think you can be competitive and artistic.

Ryan Hunter

Like, the.

Tom Farkas

If you're learning something at the same time, then you Know, then go all in for branding. It's. But it also depends what you want to get out of it. I mean, Clockwork Princess was just. I wanted to build a walker and as I started building it just started taking a shape and I just went with it. Even though I knew it wasn't going to be good, but it didn't stop me. I mean, you just can't be afraid to do something dumb.

Tony Baker

Well, I, I guess the, the question is, is then like, so how do you. Because NHRL does a really, really great job with the storytelling. I think the bots that do well on YouTube and get that like that popularity is the ones that are either insanely good, like Kaza and stuff like that, or are. Is a story. And like yours, Tom is a great example of that. And so is Ko. Yeah, that. Yes, I can't. I'm totally chopping his.

Ryan Hunter

Yes, I'm totally Kotomani.

Tony Baker

Yes, I'm totally chopping his name.

Justin

So it's like.

Tony Baker

But there, there, there's a story there. There's a coolness to it. There's that artistic thing to it. So it's like how. And this. And Hakwen. You can answer this too. It's like how do you take the box with a whole bunch of wires and everything else in it and make it artistic to get that coolness factor that you might not have otherwise?

Hot Coin

I mean, I do think. Well, I mean, okay, so I've been to NHRL once in person. Got to see a bunch of cool bots there. I was on the west coast scene for quite a while as well. Right now I'm in the middle of nowhere and there's like no robots around me unfortunately. I do think you have to sacrifice a little bit of efficiency for something that you want artistically on a robot. Like a good anecdote. I'm going to bring this up and it's like Calvin Iba had Lynx. Lynx was this super efficient machine. He just one and one dominated whatnot and he got tired of winning. So I don't know if you've seen them before, but Calvin had these concepts for a robot that was more fun and artistic and less competitive so that he had something to practice with and lose when going up against other opponents. And it was this sports car looking thing and I think he never fully did complete it. Eventually it became Sucker Punch. I don't fully remember.

Ryan Hunter

Yeah, yeah. Okay. If I remember right, that the concept became Sucker Punch and that and Sucker Punch became mixtape.

Hot Coin

Yeah.

Ryan Hunter

And then mixtape turned into a wagon.

Hot Coin

Yeah. So in like a, in like a weird way, Calvin is such a, he's such an efficient, efficiency oriented person that he tried to do something a bit more artistic and less efficient so that he could, quote, unquote, lose or have a higher chance of losing so he could fight a little bit more aggressively in the ring without immediately winning. And I guess he couldn't fully commit to that. And so his design became more and more efficient and became more and more and less artistic, quote unquote from like his point of view. So I do think that if you want to intentionally inject like more artsy out there shapes into your robot, you will have to sacrifice a little bit of that efficiency. You know, your, your plates might have a few more catch points, you might lose a little bit of weight somewhere. And for a lot of people, you know, they're trying to shave as many grams as they, as they can. You know, they're, they're trying to avoid using too much paint so that they don't go over the grammage. So I think you have to be willing to sacrifice a little bit of something.

Ryan Hunter

When, when somebody brings a bot to you and brings you a concept and everything like that, what, what is it that you really, that like, how do you go about it, I think is a good question. Like, how do you take their concept of like this is what the bot is, is the concept of like the name behind it. And how do you come up with like a logo for them or help them with some sort of branding or something like that?

Hot Coin

So generally step one, I ask what they're looking for because of course, like that comes first. But behind the scenes I'm trying to nudge people into leaning more on the themes or branding because yeah, I will say like 90% of robots that people try and get logos of, they are so efficient, which means that they have, you know, they're avert with weight saving holes, they are pretty rectangular and they probably do like really well in the ring. It's just that a lot of the time people just want pictures of their robot from like a certain angle. In which case I start leaning on the name to try and like build a logo that perhaps is a bit more abstract and fun. But a lot of the time it mostly just comes down to people wanting a picture of the robot, which is fine, you know, which is, which is great. People want to see the robot. It's like all this hard work blitzwen tears that they've put into a creation. But I do try and nudge them into going a little bit more abstract with a logo. Because I do think that for a lot of these people, they built like, one robot, they get a logo, maybe the logo looks pretty cool or has a theme to it, and then that feeds into their next robot, which could make it, which could change the look of their next robot, like a version 2 or something. And that's when they start adding, you know, maybe decals or features onto their printed, like, wheel guards and stuff. That's generally how I go about things.

Ryan Hunter

That's, that's really awesome, honestly. One, I, I'm, now I'm regretting I didn't do a name game with you because you must have, like, a lot of insight, insights into people's names and everything. Two, I, I, I am, I am willing to stick with the hot take of doing a logo that's just your bot is a little lame, and you really should, like, lean into the name and do something really cool. Like even, like some of my favorites were, there was a little while everybody was doing, like, human versions of their robots and everything like that. It was really cool. Some of my favorite stickers that I've ever gotten are all, like, the strange, like, the strange things of, like, I can't even think of any really, really good ones. But the whole back of my, my laptop is probably covered in things that you've designed, which is kind of hilarious to me.

Hot Coin

I see that impact sticker.

Ryan Hunter

The impact sticker. I'm sure you had your fingers in, like, the Booty brigade sticker too, and like, all that sort of stuff. I love it wording.

Justin

So, so one of the, One of the other things is we talked to Ed and Kelly, specifically Ed from. And they were talking about in the future of the relationship with nhrl. One of the things they're looking for is personalities and stories to stand out. And one of the important things for a story to stand out or a builder to stand out is not just the personality of the builder, but it's the personality of the robot. Like, the robot has to be memorable. It has to be able to be recognized easily by the viewership. And one of the ways that you do that is by having a striking color or having some kind of xenomorph. Take xenomorph, for example. Like, you look at xenomorph. Xenomorph is xenomorph. Like it has. They've put a specific look into that

Ryan Hunter

robot, and it glows. And it glows. I don't think most people know this. It does glow. It, it does have a A glow to it.

Justin

Well, the last time that he was charge it, the last time that he was in prime time, he had the, the black lights on it.

Tony Baker

Yeah.

Justin

The UV lights on it.

Tony Baker

So.

Justin

But yeah, so the, the importance. What is the balance going forward in the importance of making sure that you have a story and a bot that can stand out so that you can go further with that versus just having a bot that's competitive and how do you balance those two things, if that makes sense.

Tom Farkas

It's hard to balance because if you go, you could have the cool, like one of the coolest looking bots. But if you go 02, nobody's going to see it unless they decide to do a YouTube short like revenge of Mouse Mouse. I mean that robot went 02 and somehow it has millions of views. But especially now with the like the pro tour and there's a lot more focus on the highly competitive bots. But in a field of highly competitive bots, if yours has like giant googlies on googly eyes on it, it's going to stand out. And I think that's where some of the like the branding and the art comes into it. Yeah.

Justin

Or stand out so that it's picked to do something cool with like the gigantic. Positively hysterical. I think when we did your interview when we actually last season, or was that in our first season that we did our interview with you, you talked about that story a little bit. But what was it like having one of your things that was in your head that you then put into the cage maximized into this gigantic form? I think we may have covered this, but. But since that we're on the subject of this like that you have one of those opportunities that you have done of just having one of your artistic brainchilds maximize on this stage like that. What is that?

Tom Farkas

Like it's really cool. Especially when I go it's Ben long enough where I can actually wander around downstairs and people don't recognize me. But it's been. It's nice being able to just sort of see like people going over to it and getting photos with it and having it mean like so much to certain like the people and. But it's also kind of nice being able to sort of distance myself away from it. Like I like right after that I would go downstairs at a certain point of the night and people would recognize me and now I can just go

Hot Coin

downstairs and sit on the bleachers and.

Justin

Yeah, that's really cool. So yeah, so basically the, the conclusion of this and I'm not sure if we, we really covered as much as I was kind of thinking about. But the, it's going to become a lot more important for that artistic expression and the builders personalities to stand out as they go into a cage and for fans to remember who they are as this sport becomes a bigger thing in the media, on DAZN, on YouTube, on wherever else that it may go. It's a very important part of the whole piece that I think some people forget about and it needs to have its importance shown that the art that you put into the robot is, is almost just as important as how well the robot works. And that's going to become more and more a thing.

Tony Baker

Yeah.

Tom Farkas

And they in a field of, you know, one type of bot or maybe two or three different types of bot, the one that does have, I don't want to say gimmick, but the one that stands out like that maybe just has something cool that nobody else is trying to. That's the one that's really going to stand out and like four wheel drive verts. But then you know, chainsaw kitty all black with like the, like the blood looking on it and like it stands out I mean for besides being really competitive and because I being cool and the bot just being brutal. But like somebody looks at it and it's got a different profile and it's got a different paint job than just uhmw.

Thomas Carroll

There's a lot of builders that have personality with their bots, but there's one thing that almost nobody is doing. There's only one bot that did it and that's Mr. Roper. There are a lot of fans in the audience and they're all looking for free stuff.

Hot Coin

Really.

Thomas Carroll

Everyone loves free stuff. People should be handing out signs and little postcard, little popsicle stick things for everyone to be cheering on their bot. It costs nothing.

Justin

So I don't know.

Thomas Carroll

I think Hot Coin should be getting commissions. Other people should. There's a lot of artists that should be getting commissions to make these little poster things for everyone to cheer on their bot.

Hot Coin

Thomas, the truth. Thomas speaks the truth.

Thomas Carroll

This is gold.

Hot Coin

Just come to me. Come to my lair. Throw me some coins. You know how it works. I, I do have something to add actually. Oh wait, no I didn't.

Ryan Hunter

Yeah, no, no, no. Go, go, go.

Hot Coin

Okay, to, to preface, I, I would say yes, I am a Grapple Bots fan. Um, I love how the robots are built around concepts and how that really like leads your design decisions between iterations. Like some, some people, some people design more to have a box that goes real fast and hit things real good, which is nice for, like, the competitive scene. But some people have a concept and they're trying to build a robot that can eventually do the thing that they are picturing in their head in, like, a slightly different way than then. Oh, I want to optimize my numbers also. Also shout out to Kikatomane. I think he was. He was mentioned earlier. Love is zero bot. I don't know if you. I don't know how much you guys know about this, but I have three robots. They've.

Justin

They did not know that.

Hot Coin

Yeah. So, I mean, I. I had three robots. I think they've. They fought like. I. I've only fought, like, once or twice in, like, competitions. And all three of them were done in, like, a similar style where I build around a concept. And to preface, I think I've only won, like, one fight out of all my fights because all three of them were built to be weird first, with no regard for competition. So my first one was an ant, and it was called Mistake, like S T E A K because it was shaped like a piece of meat. And I have seen this. Yeah, it had one. So. So it's. It's a horizontal spinner with a small disc. One of the wheels is offset to be in front of the other. So it had one on the back, one in the middle on the right, and then a disc and had, like, a little T bone stake, like, sharpied into it. And I think that that thing went one fight against Josh Kong and got, like, destroyed for a full three minutes. But. But it drove straight, which is the important thing. You learn something from that. My second one was called doing. I don't fully remember how it's spelled, but it had one of those, like, those door stoppers. That's like a spring that goes on the bottom of your door. So it's a thwacked bot, and it could thwack, but, like, the wheels were horrible. If I put a little bit more effort into the wheels, it probably could have done decently well. But of course, that lost a whole bunch of times. I think I did, like, two iterations of that. I could never get the concept right. And I think that separates, like, good artistic builders from, like, artistic, artistic builders. Like, there are people who build robots who are also savants in the engineering side. And they get to do. When everything works together and comes together, you get a great artistic robot, you know, Thomas, of course, clearly we can see it. Right. And I think my most recent one, which was the simplest one It's a fairy weight that looks like an ant weight. Like, it's really big, and it looks like it has a big front blade, like a horizontal, but the blade does not spin. I pinned it, and it was essentially a big wedge. And so I would start in the other box against, like, an ant weight, and they would see this huge, like, weapon in there, and I just would not be able to spin it up. I would just, like, start pushing people around. And I think I nearly won with that one. That's called Obliterator. Like, I posted pictures of it on social media, and people were like, whoa. You know, that's really cool. Hawk on made a robot. It's a horizontal spinner. But if you look at the picture for, like, more than five seconds, you would realize that the blade, like, cannot physically, like. Like, if it. If it did spin, it would go into the wheels immediately. And half the comments were like, wow, you know, that's really cool. And the other half were like, does that work? And I would say, like, oh, you know, the blade spins and it matches, like, the rotation of the wheels. And they'd be like, okay, I believe that. And so I think there can be this intersection of art robots and concepts that they're really cool to see in a couple fights, but I don't know if you could build an entire storyline around them. So I do think there's a pitfall there when it comes to nhrl. If you are just going out to build an art robot that has a limited gimmick, there has to be some longevity to it, just a little bit of bite to do the robot if you're going that route.

Tony Baker

Okay.

Tom Farkas

That's part of the reason I. Oh, sorry. Oh, that's part of the reason that I stopped bringing pause to events because it just felt worn out. I was like, it's done everything that it's needed to do, and it's just like, yeah, it's time. It's time to move on from it.

Ryan Hunter

Hot coin. I. I want to. I. I want to, like, set. Hey, I. Just in case people don't entirely know who you are and what you. Your influence on the community, how many robots do you think you have done commissions for as far as, like, branding and logo and everything like that? And what are some of the most recognizable.

Hot Coin

Oh, no, I. I do not. I do not know. I. I don't. I don't fully keep track of these things. And for the most part, like. Like, for. For most of them, when someone comes to me with a logo, they have an idea in mind, you know, or they might have like existing branding and stuff. So when I draw their robot and stuff, I. I wouldn't consider that like making a brand for someone per se. Yeah, so. So those I wouldn't like count, I guess. In more recent memory, I worked on Nightlight, so that would be Bam Bam Singnasek from San Jose side. So that Bay Area robots. I did designs for her and she seemed to be happy with them. I'm on Team Horizon, of course. So I did the aesthetic work for Horizon and Calypso. Both proved to be pretty difficult because this is like heavyweight robot stuff and we're trying to save as much weight as we can. And the design has to extend not just to the robot, but to the rest of the team and how they appear on camera, which is something that like a small scale, a smaller scale builder in NHRL could look into as well. You know, you want to costume yourself as much as you want to costume the robot. I think that's a big part of it. Let's see. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how many robots I've done because it's been a bunch.

Tom Farkas

I know you did a lot of the Battlebots ones.

Hot Coin

Yeah, a while ago. Funny story with the BattleBots one. So I actually started getting into the robot hobby not by doing robots at all. Like when you talked about the anthropomorphic robot characters, I started that as a joke because I was like, oh, you know, people make like anthropomorphized like guns and boats and whatnot. So I'm like, I can do. I can do robots. So I did like three at first and it seems like the, like the builder got their hands on it and they were like, wow, this is so cool. And I was like, sure, you know, I can make more. Right. So I made the whole set of like 50 something robots for the 2021 season, I think. And that ballooned into the 2022 season. I made all those two and then a bunch of others. And it was a. It was a fun exercise that really got my foot into the door for like the hobby space. And then I started learning more about like the intricacies of the hobby and building my own robots and stuff. So that's, that's how I got into the hobby through the art of it.

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Justin

Hey everyone, you're already listening. So you know the fights don't end when the episode does. But the Havoc Ron down now lives over at havocrundown.com again. That's havocrundown.com that's where we're posting Combat Robotics news, hosting every episode of the show and running the largest Combat Robotics bot registry that's ever been put together. Stats, history, teams and results all built to grow alongside the sport. We're also curating fight videos, rolling out community games and dropping merch for anyone who wants to rep the chaos. And the 2026 fantasy league is live right now. You can create the your own Fantasy league for a full season or spin one up for a single day event draft. Robots track performance across events and compete in a way that actually fits how Combat Robotics is run. This year our focus is the sport as a whole. If robots are fighting, it belongs in the conversation. All leagues, all formats, all rule sets, from local events to competitions around the world. We have got you covered. Thank you for listening everyone. Let's get you back to the episode and back to the chaos right now. So that's a good place to wrap up the round table. So we are going to now move over to more of a focus interview on Yuha Coins. So we are going to go into our signature segment which is are 5 inch focus. So each of us have a question for you. Ryan, I have you heading off, so why don't you ask Cock Coin your interview question.

Ryan Hunter

Okay, so my interview question, we kind of went a little bit into it, but how about how. Here's my question. What are some lessons in design and Branding that builders should integrate when they are designing a new bot. Like if you had to give like maybe like a five point lesson for a builder that is looking to actually like start designing a robot for like being a well known like recognizable robot, what would be the lessons that you would tell them to follow?

Hot Coin

Five points. Oh, wow. Okay, that's, that's a number of points.

Ryan Hunter

If you don't have five, it's fine. I'm just, I pulled that out of my head.

Thomas Carroll

I mean make it seven.

Hot Coin

Seven points. Wow, okay, that's a lot of points. I, I do think. Okay, yes, this is a question thrown to me. I do think Tom probably has more insight on this because he, he actually has robots that are like designed artistically and functionally.

Justin

Oh no.

Ryan Hunter

Like even logos and stuff?

Hot Coin

Even logos and stuff.

Ryan Hunter

Everything like that. Yeah.

Hot Coin

Okay.

Ryan Hunter

The stuff that you, you get.

Hot Coin

So step one, step one is all about your mindset. You have to be willing to lose a few fights to, to gain your footing. Like if, if you really want to artistically put something in that hasn't, that someone hasn't done before, Walking the path of efficiency is not a great way to do that. Not that it cannot be done, but it is really difficult to have something unique that is also efficient. And you see this with, there are a lot of people who are like, oh, you know, here's my bot. I really like how I put the weight saving holes in it. And I'm like, yes, you know, that looks really cool. Like it legitimately is beautiful. Also, like there are tons of other people who have put like weight saving holes in like that particular way because that's just the strongest way to do it. Even though it looks cool. Like in terms of people who've pulled it off, I think Quantum is a really good example from, from BattleBots because you have more weight to play with. But they, they were able to integrate efficiency into the visual design. That's really, really hard. I wouldn't say you should start off with that. And in that same vein, if you're going to like, if you have a good regular scene that you're competing in, maybe have like your one try hard robot and your one more RC robot so that you get the feel for what like has to be there for you to successfully win fights and what you could change up or skimp on when it comes to design designs, here's my second point.

Tony Baker

Right.

Hot Coin

A good starter tip is you start with a black or white or neutral colored base and then you add a highlight color to it. That's that's the most basic way to, like, have a robot that works in terms of color. More colorful robots are always very nice to see. If you have, like, four primary colors, you're wandering into more toy box. Tertiary color style theory. So try and stick to two or three at first. You can branch out from there. Let's see, what can we make a third point concept is good. Like, there are two streets you can go down, right? You can go down the more abstract concept, or you can go down the more concrete concept. The concrete concept is a little bit more. It's a little bit easier to design stuff. So let's say this. This surrounds concrete objects. So like a shark, you know, I want a shark theme. I want a robot to look like a shark. I have visual stuff that I can see, and I can dress up, you know, in like a. Like a big left shark costume or something.

Ryan Hunter

Right?

Hot Coin

That's one way to go about it. The abstract way would be surrounding things like. Like more intangible concepts. It's a little bit more difficult to build designs around that kind of thing unless you have practice in it. So, like. Like, I'm trying to think of one. Do you guys have any good, more abstract concepts that you could build or theme a robot around?

Thomas Carroll

Dump truck.

Hot Coin

Dump truck is concrete, right? That's like an actual. That's like an actual thing you can. You can see. I'm thinking, like, abstract, like, love melting.

Thomas Carroll

Space.

Justin

Melting.

Ryan Hunter

Melting.

Hot Coin

Melting is a good idea, right? So, so, like, build. Building your robot around the concept of melting. It's easy to see. It's easy for you to execute to a degree because you can physically melt things and maybe integrate that into your design. But at the same time, melting could be in a more like, oh, my robot is designed to, like, win fights slowly. And so I built my robot around that idea. Maybe a crusher or something, right. That feeds into your melting theme. So I guess don't think about artistic principles for your robot in terms of decals or just, like, what extra coat of paint could I slam onto this? I think if you want the art of your robot to really stand out, it's got to start from the base at some point. Trying to slap stuff onto an efficient design just kind of makes a worse efficient design. And you have to sacrifice, like, a lot of the flexibility of your art if you try and do that route.

Ryan Hunter

Okay, Awesome. I like the melting theme. Seems kind of cool. I like that a lot.

Thomas Carroll

Until you have to fight Clyde. Then it becomes real melting.

Ryan Hunter

It becomes real melting.

Hot Coin

But then the judge can't see that damage has been done. You know, like this is true. That's a strange.

Ryan Hunter

There you go. There's the fire strategy that we all needed is pre built the robot.

Justin

Tom, why don't you go next?

Thomas Carroll

Which Tom.

Justin

Tom. Not Thomas Tom.

Ryan Hunter

Mr. Far.

Thomas Carroll

I liked.

Tom Farkas

I liked the be prepared to lose. I mean Frank is one in six and. But in the other one is like sometimes an idea may start going down a certain path and then it completely changes and you kind of just have to embrace it because you'll just look at something. You'd be like, this is not looking anything like. Like Penny was. I mean it's shares a lot of. Some of the CAD with paws and it just. I was not planning on making it look like a. A Fisher Price phone and it just. As I added to it, it just happened and I just leaned right into it. It's. And like the first fight or two, it was bad and like the mechanum wheels were cool but. And then you realize you're like well, it still looks good. It doesn't need that on top of it because. But the one who's really good at making like interesting looking but actually good is Kokota with like the power of friendship just.

Hot Coin

Oh yeah.

Tom Farkas

Or serial killer. That. Yeah. Sometimes you just have to lean into it, be flexible and just know that you're going to lose a lot.

Ryan Hunter

It has those robots have different shadows than other robots. Not like even like visually like different shadows. Tom, do you have your five in Focus question?

Tom Farkas

I do.

Ryan Hunter

Okay, go for it.

Tom Farkas

All right, so you've designed a lot of cool, interesting robots on your Instagram. I specifically remember one from a long time ago that used like a muscle to flip. Have there been any of those that you have wanted to build and you just haven't? Yat.

Hot Coin

Oh, wow. I would say to agree. Yeah, to a degree. Yes.

Tom Farkas

Right.

Hot Coin

Like, like if I had tons of resources and like, you know, infinite like brain power and whatnot, I could just like snap my fingers and. And bring any of my robot concepts to life. They don't have to work. Right. I just want to see if they, if they move at all or if the materials like support the. The forces at play in terms of one that I've always wanted to build, I guess. Okay, so I'm going to discount Obliterator here, which is a robot that I had a concept for and then I did build. Maybe I've always wanted to see a big wheel flipper of some sort. I know I've drawn a few. They just never really did work out from a mechanical perspective once you get flipped upside down. But that's not important. But it's these. Yeah, right. That's like the biggest thing. But the silhouette is so cool. You know it's not going to do well but the silhouette of it all is going to be so interesting. I keep featuring these like these robots with big wheels but the body sits like closer to the floor. I'm not sure what that would do. That seems like the wrong way to go about baits but it's one of the few things that I've been thinking of. The other one is a. What's it called? I don't remember what it's called but basically think again. This is a big real thing. Think it has the body of a horizontal but pointed towards the floor. And then it has a big blade that works like a. Like, like. Like it would. It would look. Dive bomb. It's called dive bomb. It looks like a plane that is pointed towards the floor because the blade is on the floor but the big wheels keep it above. So to actually hit the body you would have to be like a hammer saw or something. That's the other big one that is coming to my head by now. And then a whole bunch of like really small. I want to see more, more flippers that don't use pneumatic stuff that really get the force going without using you know canisters, you know, more spring powered things. But I haven't really come across a good mechanism for that personally. Besides all the string flippers of course.

Ryan Hunter

I. I think a Beetle, a non like really good. A Beetle flipper that's not just a motor is like a holy grail for people. I mean there was. Oh Kelpie. Kelpie was a CO2 but even Kelpie had its problems and everything like that. Kelpie was a while ago that it worked. Everybody knows what Kelpie was, right? The Beetle David Smalls beetle CO2, CO2 flipper. I love that idea. I really would love to see more flippers and more like interesting ways of doing it. It's just so damn hard to get it to cram it all into small ant weight. It's not that bad in 30s but like then you have to spend the money on a 30 flipper.

Justin

Yeah.

Ryan Hunter

You know it is what it is.

Hot Coin

Yeah. I've seen a couple like. Like dog latch mechanism things. You know all these different concepts where you spin up a flywheel of some sort and use that as your energy. But like I've not seen a Good way to transfer that energy without blowing your robot out. Right? That's like. Yeah, that's a tough bit. I may or may not have drawn one or two concepts that involve that. But also, like, I. I'm not a big. My physics isn't up to snuff. I'm pretty sure those things would explode. So I guess that's on my. That's on my list of robots I'd love to see. Yeah.

Justin

Okay, cool. Tony seems to be back. So, Tony, why don't you ask him yours.

Tony Baker

So what's your process like when you start a new piece of artwork or commission?

Hot Coin

Oh, process. Okay, so this depends on if it's just artwork or, like, commission artwork. Because I feel like those are two very big different things in terms of process. So commission artwork is easier. We'll start with that. Commission artwork is dependent on another person, so of course their wishes come first.

Tony Baker

Right.

Hot Coin

Like. Like, I want to draw a cool robot, sure. But I want to draw, like, someone else's cool robot. You know, they, like, this is their piece first and foremost. I think this. This circles back to how. To something Ryan said earlier with, like. Like, yes, it is a little. Admittedly, it is a little uncool to just get, like, a picture of your robot with, like, you know, a name in black slept under it. But I think it's also a perspective thing. It's like some. Some people are getting stickers for themselves, right? This is a nice gift for yourself, which I think is neat in its own way. If you're making a sticker for someone else, for example, that's when, like, oh, you could go into something a little bit more fun, a little bit more cookie. So generally I ask people if they want to go with more abstract logo work or with more concrete logo work. So if they want, like, more of the robot or if they want more of the brand, and then it splits from there. So if they just want the robot, like, robot forward stuff, then that's easy, right? Send me reference pictures of the robot, and then I can craft it up for you. Do you want the screws in? You know, like, some people want the screws in, some people don't want the screws in. If you want to go with the more abstract side, that's when the. The rusty gears have to start turning because it's like, oh, you know, what. What can we pull from your name? What can we pull from how your robot looks? Do you want it turned into, like, an anime girl? Sure, we can do that. You know, that's.

Justin

That's how I love Thomas's nodding.

Thomas Carroll

Everyone needs an anime girl.

Hot Coin

Everyone needs an anime girl. I feel like there's. There's a big avenue in there that people haven't really explored with, like, turning robot into other things. Like, like, what if your robot was kind of toaster themed? So it look. It looks like a vert. You know, it looks. It looks like a vert. It has, like, maybe. Maybe the. The. The stand. Like, the weapon tower looks like bread coming up. A toaster or something. But your sticker looks like a toaster with wheels, you know? And you go. You go into that toaster brand and you bring a toaster to events and you plug it in, you put your bread in, you burn down the venue. Right? So that's one way of doing things.

Tony Baker

Okay, I now want a Brave little toaster robot.

Ryan Hunter

Oh, Brave Little Toaster is such a good robot name too. Oh, it's Brave Little Toaster. Even though that movie.

Justin

That movie gives Ryan and I ptsd.

Ryan Hunter

Yes.

Tom Farkas

Brave Little Toaster as an anime girl.

Ryan Hunter

Isn't there. Isn't there a type of anime that's just girls anthropomorphizing things? Like, there was a battleship one, and there was also a tank anime where the girls were also tanks.

Hot Coin

Ryan.

Ryan Hunter

At the same time.

Hot Coin

Ryan. Correction. There are two battleship ones.

Ryan Hunter

And.

Hot Coin

Okay, the girl one. They do not turn into tanks. Okay, but there's one. There's one of the guns. That's a little weird.

Thomas Carroll

Yeah.

Hot Coin

So, yes. Wait, though.

Ryan Hunter

Oh, I have seen the one where they turn into guns.

Hot Coin

We know there's a whole thing. There are three where they turn to guns. Yeah, that's something else. But yes.

Tom Farkas

Right.

Ryan Hunter

More things. It must be a whole genre. It has to be. It's a whole thing.

Hot Coin

It is classic games and whatnot. Yeah, yeah. And coming back around, that's the commission side of things. On just, like, the artwork side of things, I usually just, like, the idea pops into my head, and I want to jot down something real quick, and that eventually, like, snowballs into, you know, fully finished artwork. Right. Like, it's out of my hands, out of my control. It happens. Sometimes one concept comes out, and I roll it about in my head after, like, a couple sketches, and then a more finalized thing comes out. That's. That's how the artistic process works for me. It'll probably work differently for you. So do explore that kind of thing if you're interested in making art.

Tony Baker

Okay. Very cool. Awesome.

Justin

Thomas, you have a secret question that you never took.

Thomas Carroll

I have a secret question. So Nhril is on espn, it's on Dazn, and there's all these large streaming platforms that it's on now. There are a lot of robots whose identities are IP of somebody else, such as mine. And Plusl, I call her out because she's already in the process of giving it a new theme for this. But the Nintendo Ninjas, once that intro gets big, I could see suing everybody. What do you suggest to people that their entire bot theme is based off of something else? Would you say, maybe modify it to something similar or just kind of rebrand? And how do you feel about that in general?

Justin

Can I. Can I just say Hakon before you answer? We never know what side of the aisle that Thomas's questions are going to come out with, but I'm going to say that is a God. Good question. It is such a good question. Such a good question.

Thomas Carroll

My other question was about what would happen if you woke up with no hands, but I figured this one was bad.

Justin

See, there you go.

Hot Coin

Okay, no hands will be pretty bad, especially when I wake up and I try to use the washroom in the morning. But okay, so that is an excellent question. I think it's important to note that a lot of really cool, seemingly original art things were once copies of other things that people then tweaked a little bit and they took off. So I think the first question you have to ask yourself is, uh, why did you choose, like, such and such a brand? Like, like, why did you choose, like, Pokemon as your. As your starting thing for the robot? I think there's something you liked about the look or theme of that, and you have to be careful to keep what you liked about that original thing and tweak everything else around it to make it look different. Like, for example, Mina. And plus, right off the top of my head, I think there's an element of like. Like both friendship and approachableness and maybe an electric theme and the simple red blue coloring that comes with Milan and Tussle as, like a Pokemon character. As Pokemon characters. And then that. That is stuff that you could keep, and then you change other things around it. Nintendo is. Yeah, they're. They're heavy with the lawyer hammer, but at the same time, like, cute, adorable, like characters are not something they have monopoly on. Right. So you could rebrand it to something that keeps that side of the equation. It just isn't like a Nintendo thing specifically. Like, for example, if. If you liked, let's say, let's say your robot is themed around, like, the Punisher. Or something. So you have big skulls. You know, you have the big Punisher logo in the front. You have it in black. You have, like, gun shapes. I guess that would be, like, how you describe it. You could definitely, like, tweak the skull. You know, you could keep all the bone and dark and shadow and take away the. Oh, no, wait. I don't remember if the Punisher is DC or Marvel.

Tony Baker

Marvel.

Hot Coin

Marvel. Right, Right. Okay. No, I saw the show. I've seen rundowns of comics. Wait, yeah. So, yeah, there is a way to scrape all that back and keep what you love about the design, but you cannot just keep what you love. You have to build onto it a little bit. If not, something will feel missing, and it will keep you up at night, and when you wake up in the morning, you will have no hands.

Justin

Honestly, Zoe should just reach out to. What is it? Pocket pair, and just see if they'll allow her to use some. The PAL World creatures instead.

Thomas Carroll

A new pair of small, fluffy creatures that are red and blue.

Ryan Hunter

I mean, she could just do mining and plus, minus and plus. Or just do positive and negative or something like that. Pause. An egg or something. I don't know. There's got to be something there that she could rename it.

Justin

You know, Kill Switch.

Thomas Carroll

Guys would have.

Ryan Hunter

Maybe Justin will actually be able to pronounce whatever the new name is. Happy now?

Justin

I only got it wrong, like, the first two times. I have been very good since then. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay, so, hot coin, my question is, when you look back at your old work compared to what you are making now, what part of your stellar approaches change the most? And what are you actively trying to improve on next? So, not. Not maybe specifically, just Combat Robotics stuff. Just your artwork, your portfolio as a whole. Where have you grown since you started as an artist? Like, what parts have you grown? And where do you look to. To move your artwork next? Like, what do you look to improve on?

Hot Coin

Ooh, Yeah. I think sometimes I stumble looking through tags, like, the tags in my different social media stuff, and I come across works from, like, 20, 21, 2018, stretching back. And honestly, when. When I take a look at those, it seems that I have been improving more in, like, a technical. Technical practice kind of sense and less in, like, a conceptual stance. Like, I can see. I can see bits and pieces of my work then that I can express now. But, like, for example, my shading has gotten better. My color control has gotten better. Like, you don't notice these incremental improvements well, they're not improvements, right? They're not necessarily improvements. They're. They're changes in style. But my tool set has broadened. Right. I. I used to. I used to stay away from gradients and soft brushes, and for the longest time, I was just drawing using a hard digital brush. That means you can see every pixel on it. And it doesn't. It doesn't blur out the sides with cell shading. So those like distinct colors, and I wasn't blending them together. I do them. I do that, like, much more now than I used to then. And I guess, like, I don't notice these kinds of things until I see my old work. I wonder if that's the same for robots as well. Right? You build a robot now and you look at a robot you built how many years ago and you notice that, oh, you know, my entire wire loom has been cleaned up a lot more. My armor geometry is, like, so much better or worse intentionally, right? Yeah. I think that's what I've been seeing my. In my art and how it's changed. Okay.

Justin

Yeah. I mean, with robots, it's the same thing. Even if you're winning all of the time, you still. I mean, take Jameson Go, for example. Like, no matter how much he wins with his robots, he always comes back with improvements to make it win better or win more. So there's always room for movement. There's always something he's trying to group. So very cool. Okay, so that was the five. And focus. Before we end, we are going to go into the Listener mailbag. You've reached the voicemail of the HAVOC rundown.

Hot Coin

Please leave your message after the tone.

Justin

The first question and why I didn't ask it earlier is because I knew it was in the listener my bag. I think we kind of touched on this a little bit. But Patrick asked, what inspired you to get started as an artist? And how do you find your way. How did you find your way into comic writing, robotics, art? I think you answered this a little bit, but just your origin. Just tell your origin story a little bit.

Hot Coin

Okay. So I was born at a young age.

Ryan Hunter

So, honestly, with or without hands?

Hot Coin

With or without hands? I might have had hands then and then, like, they sprouted at some point and then a pencil entered it. Right. Like, I was drawing when I was real young. I don't fully remember when it started, but I drew stick figures for, like, 10 solid years, which I think helped me a lot now because the more six figures you draw, the more your line of action improves. But that has to do with, like, character work. That's not necessarily things to do with, like, hard surface stuff, which is what robots fall under.

Tony Baker

Right.

Hot Coin

For the longest time, I just drew things in 2D. Like, I wouldn't attempt 3D looking shapes and things until one day, like, you know, in my adolescent hit, something clicked, and I was like, oh, you know, the stakes really aren't that high. I could just draw something in 3D, and if it doesn't look good, it doesn't look good. And I would draw in all these, like, notebooks and stuff that only I saw, right? Like, these are notebooks that. That people that are not shared to the public. And then social media hit me like a bus when I was, like, 14, and I started, like, posting stuff online. And then you see other. Other, like, artists and stuff posting stuff online. So I'm like, oh, you know, I could. I could draw, like, something like that. I could do a fan tribute here. I could do a little thing here. And I guess that that is really what has solely built my toolset for today. Seeing stuff that other people executed. Well, in this case of that case, and I'm like, I could practice that. I could try that. I could. I could integrate that in some way. I think that's really something that's helped my artwork in just in terms of technique and drive and I guess. Yeah, the second part of the question, right. So how did I get into the combat robot side of things? It was a joke. I started off just trying to make like a. Oh, you know, some people turn. Turn like, anime girls into, like, boats into anime girls. I'm going to do combat robots into anime girls. And it just kind of took off from there. I mean, even then, at that point, I still. I definitely had, like, an appreciation for the robots as objects and also the robots in terms of, like, a sport and a community. I think that shows through a little bit. And if I didn't have that kind of drive, even if I didn't realize it, if I didn't have that kind of drive, I definitely would not have drawn, like, 50 of them in, like, two weeks. So, yeah, that's really where that started off. And then I got into building robots, so it's kind of kind of as backwards there.

Ryan Hunter

Okay.

Justin

Um, so Tigerhawk asks, what is your favorite Battlebots? And I'm probably going to mispronounce this, but. Gijinka. You have made.

Hot Coin

Oh, my favorite Gijinka.

Thomas Carroll

Um.

Hot Coin

Oh, no, I made a whole ton of them. Like, I would have to zoom through

Justin

pictures for any listener that doesn't know what. What is that? For any listener that doesn't know the term, turns out it is the term

Ryan Hunter

I was looking for earlier.

Hot Coin

Yeah, pretty much spot on. A gijinka specifically is moe morphism. So moe means girl. Morphism is to change. A gijinka is when you take a thing that is not a girl and make it a girl from a platonic ideal standpoint. Right. So when I take Hypershock and turn hypershock into a girl, that is a gijinka version that is a gijika. Let's see. There's so many choose from. One of the ones that I did like was in terms of a sleeper hit, Fusion. I kind of like Fusion when I. When I drew the two of them, because it was like a. How do I take one robot and split into two as, like, people? And also they were like, these kind of scarred individuals because Fusion kept, like, catching on fire at the time. And I could. There are more avenues you can go down in terms of poses when you have two characters in a scene instead of one. And that was something I enjoyed there. If I had a big. If I had my, like, sheet out and I could see all of them, I might have changed my mind in some way.

Tom Farkas

Right.

Hot Coin

Because I don't remember most of them now. It's been like, ooh, it's been like, four years. There is. There is. Okay. This is, like, secret news that apparently only have a rendan has the ears for. But there is a picture of Hypershock, like, wearing a onesie or something and lying on top of, like, Will Bales, because Will Bales had, like, a picture of himself sitting inside the frame of Hypershock or something. And. And I did a little doodle of that and then sent it him directly. I don't know if anyone else has seen it, but that picture exists.

Ryan Hunter

That's awesome. Yeah.

Thomas Carroll

This is what art is all about.

Hot Coin

This is what art is all about.

Ryan Hunter

Yeah.

Justin

100%. Alex from the team Panda says, what makes a bot fun to draw? And have any bots been a real challenge to capture?

Hot Coin

There've definitely been some really tougher bots to draw. So what makes a bot fun to draw? Um, I can tell you what makes a. But a bot not so fun to draw. And it's. It's when the geometry doesn't have a lot of right angles. But also, that means your bot probably looks better because like. Like drawing a bot with a lot of right angles is really simple, easy, and fluid. And so there's, like, an element of like, fun or flow to it. Something with a lot of like, weird right angles that someone wants like a proper space rendition of. So like a bit of an orthographic view of it. Those are really tough to draw, but your end product is usually quite nice. So, like, you suffer for that. Right? Not as fun, but looks better in terms of like a holistic overview sense. I like, I have much more fun drawing robots when they are in action and when people are willing for the shapes to be stretched a little bit. So a little bit more cartoony, a little bit more in the moment. So, you know, like, your bot might be a box, but you can give it so much character if you, if you say, oh, you know, have fun with it, have it look a bit more cartoony, have it so that, you know, one side, like stretches as a robot is like swinging its arm. I think those, those are my favorite in terms of like, things to draw when it comes to robots.

Ryan Hunter

I think that really goes into our next question from Lyndon because I know you love drawing those things because you have your. Lyndon asks, do you have any plans to make more in the Red Square mini comics?

Hot Coin

Oh, okay. In the Red Square, not so much. So. So the thing about in the Red Square was that it really was this like a. Like I took my experiences on my, in my first contact with like the combat robotics community and I condensed them down into like little bite sized pieces of information that I got from interacting with people both in a heavyweight scene and in like an insect scene that became in the Red Square. And I feel like I've explored that quite a bit. I have done in the Blue Square, just unofficially, like a couple ones here and there. And I think I would prefer exploring something a bit more story based. All this is like deeper, you know, like, it would be nice if I had the time and everything to do one of these. You know, people keep Talking about the BattleBots anime right here and there. I do think there is, like, space for that. I've just not gone into it real hard. So that's kind of where I'm at right now with like, in the Red Square.

Tony Baker

Cool.

Ryan Hunter

All right. I've always been a big fan of the comics. I thought they were really great when you were doing them. That's awesome. Thank you, Che. One of one of our favorite people, she says we are big fans. It feels like every time we see a particularly good sticker, it turns out you did the art. Looking through your work, I noticed some of your pony art as well. And the contrast between, between those subjects. And styles really shows your range. What drew you to each subject and what parallels do you see between them? I think specifically robots and ponies.

Hot Coin

I think there's a big overlap between robots and ponies. You see, there is. There's. Okay, so, I mean, to be fair, like, oh, no, this is like a. This is like a big. You might uncover something here. There's something about. There's something about, like, how ponies are. So I. I used to be bigger into the hobby space for ponies. Recently, not as much because everything's over.

Tony Baker

Right?

Hot Coin

Basically, you see. You see this in pony blobs. They've started, like, doing what NHRL will. NHRL competitors would have to do with their copyright robots, where they used to have, like, a pony blob. And then their pony became like, they've fallen in love with it. But because My Little Pony isn't so big anymore, they've turned the pony into some other species of character. But it's the same character, and they look like pretty similar. They're just their own thing now.

Ryan Hunter

Wait, wait, wait. What are we talking about when we say ponies?

Justin

Are we talking about My Little Pony? I'm assuming My Little Pony.

Hot Coin

Yes, My Little Pony.

Ryan Hunter

So. Okay, okay. I was lost. I am very sorry.

Justin

No, Whenever I hear ponies, especially as an artwork, that's always the first thing that goes. Like, that's the first thing that I think of.

Ryan Hunter

I was thinking small horse.

Justin

I don't know.

Hot Coin

But the ponies are lame. It's over pretty much. Like. Like, if you really. If you really took the time to look at a My Little Pony, you'll. You'll realize quickly that that is not a horse. That's nothing. That's not a horse.

Thomas Carroll

And they bite.

Hot Coin

It's. It's like a. It's like a weird homunculus that kind of looks like a horse that's been, like, engineered by. By people to have appealing shapes. In the same way an anime girl doesn't look like a girl, right? Like, an anime girl doesn't look like a woman in real life. My Little Pony does not look like a horse in real life. And there's something about how people have, like, their own pony ocs or something with, like, a bright color. They slap a cool, like, 2D mark onto the side of the flank and they add some sort of accessory to it that really is how people build robots, I guess. Like, we see the same, like, efficient layout of, like, a horizontal void. It just has slightly different colors. You slap the cool sticker in your top plate you know, a robot is a pony or vice versa.

Justin

Wait, that was the episode right there.

Ryan Hunter

So now we just need you to design a pony version of every robot

Justin

and give it out.

Ryan Hunter

Give it out. So we could collect stickers of all the robots as ponies.

Justin

There's your next series hat coin.

Hot Coin

Honestly, excellent idea. If you come to me with that, I will do it. I will say that I'm a bit shorter on time nowadays because I started a full time office job thing with weird scheduling. So I may not have as much commission time as I used to. But if you come to me with like a, like, if you want to turn your robot into a pony, I. I may or may not secretly, like,

Thomas Carroll

recalled as a pony.

Ryan Hunter

Thomas, say that again.

Thomas Carroll

Can you make manufacturer recalled as a pony?

Hot Coin

Oh my God. That means send, send reference, send, send reference pictures anytime.

Thomas Carroll

Will do.

Hot Coin

And pitch me a concept.

Thomas Carroll

I've already got the anime girl version. I've got the BOB version.

Hot Coin

Could be both.

Thomas Carroll

I just need the pony version. The trifecta is complete.

Hot Coin

So there are, there are ponies that are anime girls because of a spinoff series called Equestri Girls where they took the ponies and turned them to girls so you could have like a little bit of everything.

Justin

There you go, Thomas.

Thomas Carroll

That's all you need.

Hot Coin

It's all you need.

Ryan Hunter

I need my robot to go turn into a pony and then turn into an anime girl from the pony version of the robot.

Thomas Carroll

It's all the same thing.

Ryan Hunter

And then, and then she needs to. Then she needs to do like a frame arms girl and become the robot. And then like, it's a circle. It's just a circle all the way around.

Thomas Carroll

You just make a custom frame arms girl.

Ryan Hunter

There you go.

Hot Coin

Yep. Kit bash something.

Justin

And on that note, that's going to do it for this episode of the Epic rundown.

Thomas Carroll

What a wild way to end.

Justin

Yeah.

Tony Baker

Right.

Justin

A huge thank you to for joining us tonight and talking about art, branding and the creative side of Combo Robotics. It was really cool to have this conversation with someone whose work has helped shape how so many teams and bots are seen by the community, including our own showing. Before we go, can you tell our listeners where the best place or places are to find your amazing artwork?

Hot Coin

Okay, before I share my socials and my socials and stuff, I have to give a big shout out to Team Horizon, of course, my home team. And I must say, Derek, I'm still working on your Mac commission sticker. I know it's been like nearly a month. I'll get onto it. In terms of socials, I'm on Instagram under Hot Coin. I'm on Bluesky under Hot Coin. I think I'm a little bit more active there because Instagram posting has become like a little bit weird in terms of formatting and stuff. I'm also on Discord. So if you really want to be in like a Discord server or something, I have one. Yeah, that's like my three main places. And then there's the secret Tumblr account that you have to find yourself.

Justin

Okay, what you'll find out, Tumblr, is it. Is it your art station? Because that was the one, one of the ones I was going to call out too.

Hot Coin

The art station is mostly there for like, portfolio works here and there. When someone wants something and I send a link over that, that's what that is. But if you want like, like more recent artwork and whatnot, it's going to be on my socials.

Justin

If you Google Hot Coin, you're gonna. You're gonna see a whole bunch of stuff. I'll just tell you that. Just Google Hot Coin and. And your Instagram pops up, your blue sky pops up. All that stuff pops up.

Ryan Hunter

So, very importantly, yes, H O T

Justin

K O I N which is gonna be in the episode description and stuff like that too. So if you're listening or listening on YouTube, listening on Spotify, wherever, you should see, you know, Hawkins name as well. So just Google that. And I'll put a link to a bunch of stuff as well in the description of the episode, so don't worry about that. Thank you as well to Tom Fergus for filling in the fifth chair tonight. He had to drop before the end, unfortunately, but really appreciate him joining us and bringing the builder side of this conversation, especially as someone who's always made artistic vision part of the robot itself. And of course, thanks to Ryan, Thomas and Tony for being here. As always, they are my cohorts and my team and I appreciate you guys a lot. If you enjoyed the episode, please, like, comment, subscribe, follow the podcast and share it with someone who loves Combat robotics. Cool art or beautiful problem of making a dangerous machine look like it has a soul? Make sure to check out thehavicrundown.com Follow us on Social media and keep an eye out for future episodes clips and announcements. We have merch, we have fantasy league, we have bunch of stuff over on havoc rundown.com so please check that out. Until next time, keep the bot spinning, keep supporting the builders and artists, and we will see you in the arena. Everyone say goodbye.

Hot Coin

Bye.

Justin

Bye.