A

Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. Hi, this is Zoe Deutsch and Nick Robinson.

B

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A

Then your sister calls, hearing that perfect

B

song exactly when you need it.

A

Please stay.

B

Sometimes life rigs things in our favor, like learning about your new favorite rom com Voicemails for Isabel, now playing only on Netflix. I have a lot of people who have teenagers, and they say, Jefferson, I'm struggling to communicate with my teenager. It's different. They'll say, this is not the same kid. What are some things that are kind of your goalposts or pillars when you're communicating with your son?

A

So my biggest advice would be apologize to your children. Model recovery as often as you can.

B

Yeah.

A

Literally, about something small, whatever it is. You know what? I could have done that. I'm sorry. I could have done that better. It's free.

B

I am so honored that you are willing to spend some time with me.

A

I know.

B

And to have you actually just sit with me, have a conversation about all the things that is going on in the world these days. And one of the things I want to really talk with you about is here you are from, I would say, pop culture icon to STEM and math and the books that you've written and your whole transition, I feel like you've gone. You've lived, like three separate lives.

A

Yes. I guess when you're old enough, you have enough experiences in your life. Yes, I have. Yes. Multiple careers, super grateful for them. Been around for a long time.

B

You've been able to kind of partner and bring a lot of those lives, like full circle moments when you're able to integrate different parts of you.

A

Yep.

B

Into one. I feel like that's. And that's something I've experienced certainly in my. My own life of going, okay, you do videos on social media, and it's minuscule compared to the career you've had. And you go, okay, how. How do I. How do I integrate family, faith, What. What's a passion, what I do? How do I be a present dad for you? How do you be a present mom? That's. It's a different level of peace, I find, when you find a purpose that's kind of greater than yourself. And certainly you've done that. You have this book, I love you 100, that my daughter, who's 6, can't get enough of.

A

Oh, I love that.

B

Okay, I'll make sure that. I want to make sure that the. The we'll have it in the. The show notes. Okay. Because it's just such a good book. You have a son who's 15, right? How do you have a lot of people who have teenagers and they say, jefferson, I'm struggling to communicate with my teenager. It's different. Like, My son's 8. And they say, this is not the same. They'll say, this is not the same kid who was 8, 9, 10. All of a sudden they're in 15 years old. They go, this is a different child that I'm talking to. I'm having a hard time recognizing them. How. What are some things that are kind of your goalposts or pillars when you're communicating with your son, A mom.

A

So what I would say, I feel like most parents want their kids to be sharing more and telling them more. Right. Being more open. But are you doing that with your kid? And have you been doing that with your kid? So I talk to Draco about all sorts of stuff, like. And I always have. I also apologize to him. And believe me, there are plenty of opportunities for that. I'll just be impatient. I'll raise my voice. You know what, Draco? Look, what you did was wrong. I didn't need to raise my voice. I should have expressed it differently. And I'm sorry. The look on your child's face when you say, I'm sorry, it's like this relief. It's like this. And you make a connection with them. So my biggest advice would be apologize to your children. Model recovery as often as you can, literally, about something small, whatever it is. You know what? I could have done that. I'm sorry. I could have done that better. It's free. And it's so many other. So many opportunities. Believe me, there are. And also, if I made a mistake in some other part of my life, and I'll describe it, I'll say, you know what? I just wanted to share this thing with you. So I did this the other day, and it turned out that I should have trusted my instincts on that or whatever it is. Just whatever you're going through. Like, When Draco was 1 years old, 2 years old, I used to carry him around, and I would say, now I'm opening the refrigerator. Now I'm going to look for something like just teaching how to talk. Right? Maybe it was one at that point. Or, you know, reading. I just point things out and just narrate your thought processes out loud.

B

Oh, cool.

A

You know, like, that's what I've been doing with him since he was little. We have a great relationship. Is he a teenager? Yes, he's a teenager. Which means I get a lot of eye rolls and like, mom, you know, whatever. But we talk. There isn't a lack of communication. And if he's a little. If he's like a little rude, I'll be like, you know what? That was a little rude. He's like, you know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I have modeled that and he does it back to me. So we are in. There's tons of communication.

B

Yeah.

A

But there's tons of, like, moments that aren't perfect.

B

Sure.

A

And then you recover.

B

How do you. So I want to add that right there. Like, that's. A lot of moms are probably going, that's. This is what I have with my teenager. A lot of eye rolls, a lot of, like, you're just trying to control me, you know? Is there a way that you found with your son to not only handle disagreements or model that recovery that you just mentioned?

A

Constantly looking, like in any relationship, constantly looking for your part in it. I mean, it's takes humility.

B

Yeah.

A

And don't try to control them. Like, if you're going through an ego moment of like, I'm the parent and I get to decide everything that happens and I get to, you know, blah, blah, blah, recognize that.

B

I think that's hard for a lot of parents.

A

It is hard. It's hard. Even if you're super self aware and have been working on it for years, it's still hard because it's just easier if things just go the way you want to. You go, okay, you know what? Let me just relent for a moment. And what do I actually, really, actually need in this moment? What do I actually, you know, or what just feels more convenient? Or am I forgetting that he's his own actual adult human in there that's growing up, and I need to honor that and respect that. So I'm an older sibling. I've got a younger sister who's younger by year and a half. And for any older siblings out there, you know, when you're young, you're kind of like, you're the head honcho, right. With your younger sibling. And I remember at a certain point, I realized we were probably around the age of 15 or so. I realized that if I wanted to have her as a friend for the rest of my life, I need to stop treating her like she was my younger sibling all the time. Like, just go. Let me just step back a little bit and try to, like, honor things. That she's doing that. She's really good at that. Maybe I'm not good at. Maybe like highlight those or just sort of honor those. And she's my best friend today. And something I think people don't think about is that your child, your relationship with your child will mostly be them as an adult. Like, the vast majority of your relationship with this person is them as an adult.

B

That's true.

A

So what do you want that to look like? Start doing that now, in some ways, you know, I mean, believe me, that's a good point.

B

That's got me thinking.

A

Right.

B

And we have way more time.

A

Way more time. And guess what? They can hang up that phone.

B

Yeah.

A

They can just be not available. What do you want that relationship to be? How do you want them to treat you as an adult someday maybe treat them like that now as much as you can.

B

That's a good question.

A

Right.

B

Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about AG1, y'. All. My summer is going everywhere. So far we've got what, summer camps. After summer camps and dentist appointments and going here and there and traveling. And that makes it all the more important that I. I make sure Sierra makes sure that we're having energy to keep up with these children. Okay, and how do we do that? We've been trying AG1. We've been doing that for close to a month now of having AG1. And what I really like about it is that I know right away when I have it. I'm having immediate nutritional support for my body. That means gut health, immune health, healthy brain and mood, and helping fill in common nutrient gaps. Having to think too hard about it. It's a scoop that you put in of like 6 to 8 ounces of cold water. It's green. Does it taste awesome? It's not full of sugar? I'm going to tell you that it's not full of sugar, but I do know that when I drink it, I feel better afterwards because I know I'm putting good stuff into my body. And one thing I really appreciate about AG1 is they actually invest in research. AG1 next gen is backed by multiple gold standard clinical trials and is clinically shown to fill in common nutrient gaps, improve key nutri levels within three months, and enrich the gut biome. That sounds pretty good. For me, it's just one less thing to worry about. So no matter where the summer takes me, I can keep one healthy, routine, consistent visit drink ag1.com jefferson to get a free morning person hat and free ag1 flavor sampler in your welcome kit with your first ag1 subscription. That's a $82 value. That is drinkag1, the number one dot com. Jefferson. And now let's keep going. How do you, I guess, define or aim or strive to be a present mom with all that you have going on?

A

Yes. So. So Draco's dad and I are divorced, which means I get him only half the time. So when I don't have him, then I schedule all the things like this or just meetings of any kind. I do a lot of writing. I also. I homeschool him somehow when I'm with him. That's what we're doing. We're homeschooling. We're doing other things together. We're going in little field trips. We're, you know, scheduling time where we're hanging out with. Maybe I'm friends with a mom, he's friends with the son, and we, like, do a play date or whatever. Like. Or we do family time. So I try to really. I had this the two separate times with Draco, without Draco. Without Draco, I'm a workaholic.

B

Yeah.

A

With Draco, I try to put that aside as much as I can, and that.

B

That helps. You think it would be harder if he was with you full time?

A

Yes, I do.

B

Yeah.

A

To be honest, because I would need to create that some other way. Now, if. If he were with me full time, but he went to school, then I'd probably get the claim that, you know, reclaim that time because I'd be doing that stuff while he was at school. But homeschooling him, that's different.

B

Yeah, the. The women that we know and the men that we know who homeschool their children like, that, to me, requires a different, like, gear to be not just around your kids all the time, but also responsible for their education.

A

It's a. It weighs in. You're like, am I. Am I doing a good enough job or they're getting exposed to enough things. You know, I feel like I'm really strong in math and science.

B

Right.

A

That I'm not worried about. We're in pre calculus right now. He went through all my books, of course.

B

Of course.

A

But sometimes, like, oh, he hasn't really studied literature very much, but that wasn't really a strong suit for me. So maybe that's why, you know, his dad supposedly does the history in English and, like, so how's it going over there? But he. But his dad's also an amazing piano player, and Draco plays beautifully.

B

Oh, that's cool.

A

And also super smart with computers and programming stuff. So they do all that stuff. And so it's great. You know, it's all fine. He's getting a fantastic education. Yeah. But, yeah, being present, you know. Okay, so here's. Here's a little piece of advice, too. So when I got married, I remember people telling me, it's gonna fly right by. The day's gonna be over. Right. Much like people say the childhood flies.

B

Right?

A

So. So take a moment here and there during your wedding day to, like, stop and be like, just stop everything. Go take a mental snapshot. I'm here at my wedding right now. Look at this. This is the wedding. And then. And then try to do that a few times. So I will sit Draco down, like, all the time. I would say probably a couple times a month. I'll be like, draco, just sit down. Let's just sit down on the floor and stare at each other for a minute. Okay? He's like, oh, okay. And like, I'm just. I just like, okay, so this is you now, right? Look at you. You're, like, becoming like an adult. It's like you're like a young man. Look at the hair on your arms. Like, I just, like, look at you.

B

You're, like, noticing everything.

A

And he rolls his eyes, but he also kind of likes it. I think he feels seen.

B

I think he might like it later.

A

But right now he's like, I think so too. Yeah.

B

Yeah, we. That's funny you say that. My. So my baby brother. See, I call my baby brother. He's, like, 28, just got married this past weekend in Austin, and it just happened to line up that we were on the way to take pictures. We had all. Had these suits on. And my middle brother, so he's. It's me. I'm the oldest of four. It was me, my sister. Brother. Brother.

A

Okay.

B

So the older of the brothers was driving then baby brother's riding. Who's getting married? Then I'm in the back, and we just had this moment while we were driving to the pictures where Jonathan and I, we've both been married, and we're talking to Jacob, who's about to get married. Of like, hey, listen, that. Because he was all worried about his itinerary. We're like, hey, that itinerary. Just forget all of it. Like, it's not gonna. Nothing's gonna go by the itinerary. Just take a moment to appreciate that we're here in the car together.

A

Yeah.

B

We're gonna have this moment, like, we love you. And then later on, like, right before the ceremony, we got together and, like, grabbed his shoulder and, like, hey, we're right here in this moment. And then right after the wedding, we're like, hey, we're right here in this moment. And. And so it was really cool to. Sometimes I think, what's the takeaway? Is that you're gonna have to find that time in your life to grab the person that you love and that means something to you and say, hey, I just want to treasure this moment that we can have together. It's not gonna be the same moment that's gonna be there in the future, but we get to have this moment right now. Let's not waste that. Cause I think it's easy to just to kind of let those moments go

A

when we're constantly thinking about what we need to do next.

B

Right then, what's always next? What's always over the hill? That's the energy I feel like you put out of this very unselfish energy of, what good can I do? How can it. How can I be about family, good values? How can I talk about faith? How can I create these environments? From the math books to how you talk about being a present mom, to everything that you. You do, is that something that you find to just be a core value of yours?

A

Yes. I mean, from being in the public eye from a very young age, I've always felt a responsibility to be a good role model. From my earliest. I remember, I was offered this granola bar ad campaign when I was 14. My mom was. You know, this was in the 90s, and it had sugar, but it had sugar in it, and I didn't eat sugar. And we were. My mom had taught me not to eat sugar, and I turned down. And it was $100,000 campaign, which back in the 90s was. I mean, still a lot. But it was even more back then, if you can imagine.

B

Yeah.

A

And I was like, but I can't tell other kids to eat this thing that I wouldn't eat.

B

I guarantee you I ate it. I probably ate a lot of it.

A

I mean, you know what? But there was this inner core of this, like, this. Like. Like this.

B

Yeah.

A

I couldn't. It was like water and oil. I couldn't.

B

This identity.

A

Identity. Yeah. Like, I can't get up there and say so. Like, that's why I could never be a politician. Like, I just can't.

B

Like, I feel like you have the passion for it.

A

I would be destroyed. Yeah.

B

Just because you can't go, I can't be bought off.

A

And I can't. I can't play the game, you know,

B

Especially not by Nutri Grain bars.

A

I don't say the brand.

B

Yeah, whatever. The health bar is. Whatever. Granola bar.

A

Right. It was like a health food. Right.

B

Okay.

A

But it wasn't because it had sugar in it. So anyway. But the point is, like, I, for better or worse, have always felt an obligation to be a good role model. I never went to Hollywood parties and did all that stuff and never did the Hollywood.

B

Did you ever wonder, like, I could have. It just wasn't pretty bad.

A

I think I've always been kind of a goody two shoes, which is why it's so good that I landed a great American family channel. Because I could just be myself.

B

Yeah.

A

You know, I don't have to be edgy or like, I don't know. I just, like, I don't, I don't drink alcohol really. Like, it's not like I. I mean, I have maybe half a drink every month or so.

B

Yeah.

A

I don't drink coffee. Like, I just don't. Like, I'm like, oh, that sounds as good for my body as it could be if I didn't have that thing. So I won't. Like, I've just always been like that.

B

Have you. You see it as a sense of like. There's some people that I know that are. They see it as. It's very easy for them. They're like, this is just where I align in my value. That coffee. I don't really. I don't drink coffee or anything. You go, ah, that's just.

A

I'm afraid of getting addicted to things. So like, I tried a cigarette once when I was 18 and it was like really good, nutty and sassy. I'm like, I'm never touching that again.

B

Right. Yeah.

A

You know, it's like that, like, oh, I don't want to get addicted to something. Maybe that's control.

B

Well, no, I think that's. I mean, that's safety. Right. I think that's, that's. I know other people who also have very, very afraid of addictive tendencies, even though they've never displayed any addictive tendencies.

A

Okay. That's me.

B

And so it's, it's just that fear of. Well, that doesn't feel safe to me if that doesn't align with what I feel is safe and secure. And so it's just, it doesn't become. It's not that it's negative, is. It's a. An aspect of that doesn't Feel like, secure to me. And so I'd rather, I'd rather not.

A

I see people like, oh, ladies having wine, mimosas. Yeah, it's so fun. But like, I'm. I'm on the outside looking in. Like, it's never. I never get to be a part of that. For better or worse. Like, I just.

B

You wish you were sometimes, or just

A

the idea of it. But like. Like in college, I used to go to sorority parties and I would dump out the beer and put water in it and then drink it out of a beer can. And that was perfect.

B

Got it.

A

Because then people didn't look at me as a weird, goody two shoes outsider.

B

I can, I can see it.

A

And I could pretend to be drunk, just a little tipsy, you know, just for fun.

B

Well, I mean, you could definitely do that. I mean, you could pretend. You could pretend to be anything.

A

What's the difference?

B

Yeah, I can relate to that idea of we care about where we are socially and we care about how others perceive us. But I think you've done a wonderful job in creating the brand that is your life and how you're treating others around. I mean, what you're building, I think, and continue to build. Is there anything on the horizon for you that you're really excited about? Any projects you're really excited about?

A

Well, I'm. Like I said, I'm writing my next Christmas movie right now and putting faith into the stuff. And I can't talk details yet, but probably shoot this summer.

B

Awesome.

A

And you know, I do speaking engagements around just homeschooling my son and trying to stay in shape and do all the things, stay healthy.

B

I feel like you're just a bright shining star and I wanted, I'm just honored to be able to share you with my community and say, hey, if you want a role model of somebody who I think is doing it right

A

and got it right, but also like a total goody two shoes nerd, you know?

B

Yeah, but you use it almost. You almost use it in like, in a derogatory sense. I don't see that. I don't see that as a.

A

At this point. I'm in my 50s, I'm 51, so I don't even care anymore. Like, I don't like, I. I embrace the nerdy sort of outside looking in aspect of my personality. It's fine. It served me well. And people in my, you know, surroundings, they all understand me and love me anyway.

B

I think there are more people like you than you think. Maybe I really. And I think there Are many people who are listening to this and saying, seeing that example of courage to just be who you naturally are rather than, and being okay with this idea of on the outside looking into what you, the world says is cool or hip or whatever and knowing that there's they can take courage in the peace of walking in your purpose and being a light to those regardless of what's happening out there. So before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Tiny Health. Now you know what it's like when as you're going throughout the day you go something just off. I don't know why I feel off. I feel like I've been eating okay, I've been doing all my regular stuff, I've been getting sleep, but maybe my stomach is not feeling good. Maybe I just, I don't feel locked in the way I need to. My family's been using Tiny Health for issues that have to do with just that. What Tiny Health does is, it is a take it home test that you send in and it gives you personalized recommendations and results that are science backed that give you a whole insight into what's going on in your gut, in your gut health and your gut biome, your microbiome to say, hey, these are some of the foods that may be giving you issues. These are some lifestyle changes you might wanna be aware of. In other words, rather than just guessing, what Tiny Health does is allow you to actually look and see based on real scientific data as to what exactly is going on. And when you have that kind of information, it's really a peaceful feeling just to know, know, hey, this is what's going on. I'm not crazy, I'm not losing my mind. It just really is in your gut. Because if your gut isn't right, nothing's right. So start improving your health with real data from Tiny Health. Tiny Health is offering my listeners their biggest offer yet which is $50 off your first at home test@tin.com Jefferson. That's tinyhealth.com Jefferson for $50 off. And now let's keep going. I would love for you to tell me how you came to faith that

A

journey because it was recent. Four years ago.

B

It was very recent.

A

Okay, so I've always been around Christianity a little bit here and there. Like when we moved from San Diego to Los Angeles when I was a kid, the best school was a Catholic school. And so I went to Catholic school. My mom was like, oh well, don't worry about all that, it's a good school. But don't worry about the whole Jesus thing. I'm like, okay. But it was around. You know, you're around it and you kind of learn about it. And my mom's a wonderful person, a very moral person. She just didn't grow up with all that, so. And my dad, when I was around, I was a teenager, I guess my dad came to Faith. He's in real estate, and the market had crashed, like, big time, and he lost almost basically everything.

B

Wow.

A

And he came to. A friend brought him to church, and he came to Faith, and. And he gave me this necklace. He gave this to me when I was 16.

B

Oh, that's awesome.

A

And I just saved it, like, well, that's pretty.

B

Yeah. Yeah.

A

And I was like, wow, he seems so happy. Like, he seems different.

B

Yeah.

A

I'm so happy for him that this is working for him. Like, that was kind of my feeling.

B

Good for him, good for him.

A

I'm genuinely happy for him that whatever, you know. And then. And then fast forward a lot of years to, I think it was probably 2020 or so. And my friend, Candice Cameron Beret, who is also on Great American Family Channel, she is very public about her faith. And she would read the Bible on her Insta stories. And I used to listen to. Because it was just kind of. It was just calming. But. And I. And I. And one of the things that had always kind of bugged me about Christianity, I just didn't understand. I was like, okay, I gotta ask you something. I DM'd her, said, what is this whole thing with forgiveness? So you can do whatever you want. And then Jesus died on the cross for your sins. So, like, you're. You're good, you're fine. And then you can just go back and do it again. So you just ask for forgiveness and you can just do whatever you want. And she's like, can I send you a Bible? I'm like, sure. And she sent me a Bible. It was beautiful. And I. I didn't. It's a story like, hey, thanks, Candace, for the Bible. You know, didn't open it. Fast forward longer.

B

And this is on Instagram.

A

Instagram. And then she asked me if I want to go to church. And I was like, sure. But Covid was happening. And so, like, things weren't open or like, if somebody was even a little bit sick, maybe in the family, then we wouldn't like. Finally it. Some of it was 2021, finally, in April of 2022, it was Palm Sunday. It was the first time that it worked out for me to Go. And they did the Passion Play. And there was something about. Just hit me. The Holy Spirit came to me, flooded me. I was bawling. Yeah, I got it. And the thing that had bugged me about Christianity was really just religion. And it was all the negative stereotypes about how all these wars had been fought in the name of, you know, Christianity. And, like, people died, and people. And I was like, oh, wait, Jesus was anti religion, right? Oh, my goodness. What. Like, that was. That was like. And I. And I. So intellectually, I got that. And then I was. I was just gifted. I was just gifted. The gift of belief in that moment. It was a moment. And I remember Candice squeezing my hand. I'm squeezing hers. I'm like. And the idea that it's about relationship and not religion, like, all that really hit home and felt so freeing to me. And I went, like, the next week, I went for a church again. And I was like, I want to tell everybody, but I don't know anything. And she goes, well, just share your experience. And so I did. You can find it from April 2022. I'm wearing, like, this pink dress. And I. I came home and I just went live and I just talked, and it's all there. I'm like, wonderful. I'm like, guys, freedom. Okay. So I used to think that religion, like, Christianity, meant that you had, like, less freedom, was restrictive. It's actually different. It's the opposite. I feel so much freedom. I feel like my heart's open to my, like. And what you're. What's freedom is freedom from anxiety.

B

Yeah.

A

For me, and I'm not talking about clinical anxiety. I've never tried to speak to that, because I don't think about that. What I will say is, for me, the anxiety that I have felt in my life, worrying, trying to control everything, having to figure out all the potential situations and how things go wrong so I can preemptively prevent them from going wrong. All that, that I've spent so much of my life doing. People say, well, what's different in your life since you came to faith? The biggest stuff is stuff you would never see. It's the stuff on the inside. It's all the in between moments. It's every time I get into bed at night and just, like, thanking God, just feeling. Just flooded with gratitude and having that. And then I do the Lord's Prayer at night, which I just love. I love that prayer so much that. And then when there's things that happen that I'm afraid of or whatever is going On I go to God, I turn over and a humility giving. Glory to God. Oh my goodness, that's a huge one. And for somebody, I mean for you, that you have all this sudden success, you know, my advice to you, not that you ask for advice, I love advice. Glory to God. Glory to God. Every day constant. Every day constant. It puts you in this, in the, in the position of humility to receive more also, but to use it as a. You're receiving, to give. And it feels so much better than trying to collect riches on a throne. Like, it's not that actually that creates more fear when you are protecting your throne. To quote a sermon yesterday in church.

B

That's wonderful.

A

Protecting your throne. Like, no, it's not ours, it's not ours. And that has freedom in it. Because then you're not worried about how to hold on to whatever it is that you think you have, that you're collecting, just knows it's glory to God. Glory to God. It feels so much better than our egos. And it just feels, it feels.

B

I agree.

A

It's everything good about it.

B

For me, it's a lot of my prayer before I go and do anything is this idea of let me be less so he can be more. And so it is. That's like my, that's what always hits me is like I let me be as little as possible to make room for what he's going to do.

A

Yeah.

B

And whether that's a conversation, whether that's content, whether whatever that is in the way that it's not mine to curate. Right. And so sometimes it's just me unlocking the door and it's, it's allowing, allowing him to, to do what he's going to, to do. But that kind of freedom that you talk about is something that I find it's so easy to get excited about because you want to share it. That the freedom is there and it's readily accessible and it's there and it's something you could have now rather than putting it in something else. And so when you, if you were talking to that person who's, I don't know, let's just say they're in LA or they don't know anything about the church. And you've, you've. Because you've been that person. Right. Like, you know religion and you see all these type of denominations that are out there and everything.

A

Right. And the holier than thou idea, like, oh, the Jesus people, they think they're better or whatever. Like all those misconceptions and the Thing is, there are probably plenty of people who are like that.

B

There absolutely are.

A

So that's the thing.

B

That's not probably. There are. No.

A

Yeah, no. Right. So. But that can all exist. Doesn't need to keep you from having that relationship with God and with Jesus. I didn't. I wasn't able to say Jesus for like the first year. Like I would, but it felt weird.

B

Well, there's something powerful in the name of Jesus.

A

There is.

B

It's a name that, when you, like, people are okay talking about God, I feel like. But as soon as you say the word Jesus, it's like, whoa. Okay.

A

Right, right.

B

Yeah, yeah.

A

And maybe because of just the inherent power in the name and also because of all. Everything that's been stuck to it, where people who aren't maybe modeling authentic Christianity and using the name in ways that aren't as nice, you know, to judge.

B

Yeah.

A

And to not actually live out what Jesus stood for, stands for.

B

How do you. Now how do you integrate this as part of your life? You told me about the prayers that you do throughout the day now, the content that you get to make and produce. What's been. If you could tell this to the person who goes, I don't know about this, Donna Graham. I don't know about this. What would be just some words that you would give that person?

A

I would advise them to ask God for help to see him. Just ask for that help because he's the only one who can really make that happen. And to give yourself permission to accept God. You don't have to accept God yet. Just give yourself permission to, like, let's say there was somebody, this is pre faith that I wanted to forgive or somebody who just. I wanted to feel a different way than I actually felt. But I didn't want to let go of the anger or the resentment or whatever it was. I had this trick where I would give myself permission to let go of the anger and I have to let go of it yet I'm just giving myself permission to. And I would say that as kind of like a mantra. I give myself permission to forgive that person. And I could do that much even though I really didn't. And by the way, forgiveness is like one of the most important things you can do. Holding on to anger and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. These are all sort of adages and things that I use pre faith that really do translate pretty well. But give yourself permission to do that thing that you aren't ready for yet, but, you know, you need to. To me, that was like. That was. That was the gate. That was unlocking the gate when I wasn't ready to go through yet. And then it pushes open more easily. So maybe give yourself permission to accept God into your life.

B

I love that. Yeah, I like the permission aspect because people feel like they have to do it now. Like, that, go to it, Right. Like, they have to take this step. We have to move, have to go to A to B. But I think there's also this beautiful idea of, let me give you some permission to go to it.

A

Yeah. Psychologically, just. It just unlocks something because it relaxes you because you're not doing the thing yet. You just give yourself permission to.

B

I'm saying, you can, you can, you can, you can.

A

When you're ready, you can. Permission, permission.

B

It's kind of like that both can be true. Like, I find a lot of the times in conflict, there's the struggle. And sometimes a very kind of permission way of going about it is saying, well, hey, I think there's something both. Both things can be true. How you feel can be true and how I feel can both be true. And it's that, like a little bit of a psychological. Just give ourselves permission to disagree. Give yourself permission to challenge. Like, for me, I think it's a. I think it's a good thing for people to wrestle with faith. Like, I think just the idea of wrestling with big concepts, like I wrestle with the concept of the kingdom of God, right? Like Jesus talks about, the kingdom of God is like this. The kingdom of God is like this. And like, these are big things that every time I wrestle with, or sometimes I wrestle with the big paradoxes, who loses their life will gain it. Like these big paradoxes and life. And so I find that if you can, once you kind of identify and attach, and I think naturally our lives kind of go towards this or the idea of surrender, rather than trying to control. Really, there's so much. You think there's so much peace and control. There's so much peace and surrender. And it's like, instead of this, it's a lot more of this. And when you get. You find yourself in that paradox on the other side of it, it's such a freeing feeling. Like you said the very beginning when you wanted to tell your community, freedom, I have found freedom.

A

Freedom is freedom because you're free from worry, right.

B

And that you're getting to live in the truth.

A

Philippians 4, 6, 7, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, through prayer and supplication with thanksgiving. Let your requests be made known to God and the peace of the Lord which surpasses understanding will guard your minds and hearts in Christ Jesus.

B

Let's go.

A

That was a little rough, but that was.

B

No, I loved it.

A

That is my favorite verse.

B

That's a good one.

A

And then the Lord's Prayer as well. Yeah, those. If I'm worried about something, I just do those on repeat as I go to sleep.

B

That's awesome.

A

Yeah.

B

Thank you for sharing that.

A

Yeah.

B

That was beautiful. Thank you so much for coming and spending some time with me. And I'm so.

A

Thank you for what you've done for the world. Like you have so many nuggets, golden nuggets of advice and that I've used. Just the other day I saw said you can't win an argument or no winning argument is bad.

B

Yeah.

A

That was like so good. That's so good.

B

Thank you. I just take it and I give it up there.

A

Yeah. I have thing. Yeah.

B

Right. Yep.

A

It's great. It's great. You're just a beautiful channel for all sorts of wisdom and truly bringing peace to the world. And you're doing it in a way that doesn't require someone to have faith to get it. It's just. I'm. I'm just in awe of what you've been able to accomplish and I hope you consider me to be a friend definitely through this new. I know you have a lot of fast fame and reach out anytime.

B

It's good to have a genuine friend like you who actually. Who actually cares.

A

No, I really do. I want to. I want to like protect everything that you have had your whole life because the world is coming at you because you are such a beacon to so many people. You've helped so many people. I bet you helped so many marriages, so many parent child relationships. You name it and you continue to do so.

B

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I'm just repackaging what somebody else. What he's already said.

A

Well, you're doing a really good job.

B

Thank you so much for being on.

A

My pleasure.

B

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