Sponsor/Ad Narrator

Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc.

Jefferson Fisher

Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. Today my guest is Claire Holt. You may know her from the Australia series H2O, just add water, Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little liars, Mean Girls 2, the Originals, you name it. And what we get to talk about why I was so excited to talk to Claire is that we go deep on the guilt cycle that moms and parents feel between career being fulfilled, being full time parent. And we talk about how to know what season of life you're in and how to give yourself just a little bit more grace. We also talk about phones, the guilt that we feel when we're on phones in front of our kids and what role should phones play and some suggestions on how to handle it a little better. And we talk about how to live in the discomfort when you're trying to build and grow and improve yourself. Hope you enjoy. Hi. So good to see you.

Claire Holt

So good to see you.

Jefferson Fisher

Great to meet you.

Claire Holt

Likewise. I'm a huge fan.

Jefferson Fisher

Thank you. Same. I'm really, really honored to just kind of sit down with you for a little bit. I know that you have just a huge history of work in acting from H2O, just had water, the Australia series, from Pretty Little Liars to Mean Girls 2 to Vampire Diaries to Originals, all these things. And I'm, I'm. But I saw one of the reasons why I want to talk to you, Claire, is because you made a big decision here recently and that was to take a step back from it all, almost kind of pivot. And that's really what I want to focus on because I know there are a lot of people, a lot of women, a lot of moms, and it's something that we're dealing with in my own house. Right. Of what Sierra is wanting to do, of how they go from this one identity, whether it's a working job, they're doing this, just switching to something else, taking that leap of faith. And so I'm really curious of how that played out for you.

Claire Holt

You know, it was such a challenge for me because my entire identity was wrapped up in my career as an actress and My value or the value I placed on getting the role, being successful, constantly working, booking auditions, booking campaigns, anything involved in that space. I thought I derived my worth from that. So when I had my first son, James, I knew I had always wanted to be a parent. From when I was very young, it was my dream in life to be a mom. But I didn't realize how seismic that shift would be for me. And I really, really struggled. I really struggled. I felt down on myself. I didn't know who I was. I. I found myself shaking a rattle in front of his face one day and reading him these black and white baby books. And I just burst into tears because I couldn't understand how I could love something so much and still feel so creatively unfulfilled and still feel like, wait, this is supposed to be this big, pivotal moment in my life, and it's supposed to change everything in the best way possible. And I feel so anxious and so sad. And so I really went on this journey over the last seven years. I mean, it's been constantly evolving of trying to figure out who I am outside of that identity as an actor and. And realizing that, hold on a second. If I had nothing, if I were just me, is that enough for me? And. And can I love myself as just that? And I think I've gotten there. I really, like, I have my moments, but I'm really proud of how hard I've worked to be okay with just being me. Just Claire, you know, Just Claire.

Jefferson Fisher

That's the big question. Like, it. It's like this moment where you have to really sink in. Am I enough? You know, just.

Claire Holt

Exactly.

Jefferson Fisher

Just Claire. Just Jefferson.

Claire Holt

I think we all feel that way, don't we? Like, not even just mothers. I think that, you know, we have this constant barrage of external stimuli and. And we look at social media all day, and people appear to be achieving so much and doing so much and winning and earning and. And it makes us feel like, wait, am I not doing enough? Should I be doing more? Should I be hustling? And I'm so guilty of that, for sure. But every time I have those feelings, I have to just come back to, you know, what, who do I mean to myself as just a person? And can I lay my head on my pillow at night and be happy and proud of who I am?

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah. You all have three, right? I think three. Two girls and a boy or two

Claire Holt

boys and a girl.

Jefferson Fisher

Two boys and a girl. So what are their ages?

Claire Holt

One just turned seven. Five and two.

Jefferson Fisher

Okay, that's. You got the Spread. So our son is seven. Oh, he's eight. He just turned eight in January. And I still always say seven.

Claire Holt

It's hard, isn't it? Because you don't want to let go of that.

Jefferson Fisher

I don't want it to be eight. Because the thing is, Claire, I remember being eight, and that's when, like, surely he's not at that age yet, you know, Crazy. Yeah. So my son is. He's 8 and my daughter is 6. And then after our daughter, we were like, we're good. Like, she is just an absolutely firecracker.

Claire Holt

My daughter is the same way.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah, she. She keeps it. And yours is. Your daughter's the youngest?

Claire Holt

No, she's the middle. So my son and my daughter are 17 months apart, so she'll be 6 in Sept.

Jefferson Fisher

Does she, like, rule the roost or is she the boss?

Claire Holt

Yeah. Yes. Just last night, it was really funny. I was putting her to bed and she rolled over and she said, thank you for being. Thank you and dad for being my parents. And I said, oh, my God, we are the luckiest parents in the world to have you. And she goes, I know. So she really knows her worth, this kid.

Jefferson Fisher

She knows what she's doing. Yeah, she knows what she's doing. My youngest is definitely the. She's the. She's the boss. My son has two. Two moms, is his mom and his younger sister. That's kind of.

Claire Holt

Well, that's what you want, his little sister. You want a girl who. Who is strong and opinionated and, you know, values herself. And so that's what I try and tell myself when I'm, like, pulling my hair out, trying to figure out how to parent her. I'm like, it's okay. It's gonna pay off. It's gonna pay off.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah. And I think that's a. And I think that's a great segue into this idea of. First, before we talk about how you parent your children, I'm curious of how you feel your parents parented you. How did we get to have Claire in the way that she's approached life?

Claire Holt

It's so interesting. I will tell you that when I became a mother, my respect and admiration for my parents just compounded. And, you know, before becoming a parent, I had all of these, well, you did this and you did that, and I would have done this differently. And I don't think you, you know, worked hard enough on this aspect of parenting. And then I had my own son. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is the hardest thing in the world. Nobody Knows what they're doing. You guys did an amazing job. Thank you so much. So it's really healing to sort of have that full circle moment, especially, you know, with my mother. My. I'm one of four, but my parents had three girls. So, you know, there's a. There's an interesting dynamic at times with a house full of women, I find. And so it was really beautiful to sort of have that, like, wow, I'm really sorry for how I acted as a teenager moment with my mother.

Jefferson Fisher

I love when I'm, like, having this moment with my. It's usually my son. Like, I'm having to get on to him about, like, you don't just break this. This isn't yours. And then I look at my parents if we're, you know, on a trip, and they're just cackling. They're just. So.

Claire Holt

You just totally know.

Jefferson Fisher

It's definitely.

Claire Holt

Totally. You know, they. I had this interesting dynamic, and I think it's similar in my house where, you know, my mom was really gentle and she was a nurturer, and we knew we could get away with some stuff with her. And my dad was really structured and. And I wouldn't say strict is the right word, but he just believed in having chores and doing the right thing and having a strong work ethic. And no means no. You know, with my mom, no meant maybe not right now, maybe a bit later. And yeah, she. But she was so soft and nurturing and really encouraged us to chase our dreams. And. And she was the one who was like, you can do this. You can go to America. And she, like, helped. She put me on that plane and. And really gave me the opportunity of a lifetime to move here. So. So I'm super lucky. And I think also growing up in Australia was such a beautiful experience for me. It was very different, I think, to how kids are growing up now. And also, I grew up without social media. I mean, it only came in my very late teens, early 20s. So I didn't.

Jefferson Fisher

I think we're the same age. Yeah.

Claire Holt

Yeah. I didn't have that deep fear, you know, just freedom.

Jefferson Fisher

I think sometimes we didn't have it. Yeah.

Claire Holt

Oh, yeah.

Jefferson Fisher

Thank goodness.

Claire Holt

I'd still be trying to make sure that. To fix that if I had it when I was a teenager.

Jefferson Fisher

Me and you both. I want to make sure that I don't miss something important. And that is when you are. I want to kind of go back to the Claire that is seeing. Feeling the weight of this acting career. And here she is looking at her Newborn.

Claire Holt

Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher

And you're getting tears in your eyes and you're feeling, how could I love so much but yet be creatively unfulfilled? And how do I balance that? And how do I know that I want to do something different and have that, that leap of faith? And, like, what am I if I am not this, if I am not? And there are people that I know, it happens with mothers whose kids are. We have friends whose kids are graduating high school and they're going off to college. Like, what? It's. Who am I if I am not the character mother who makes every sandwich? You know, what is that? And so what kind of advice do you have for those people who are in a shifting of seasons?

Claire Holt

Don't judge yourself. That's the biggest thing that I would say because it's so easy to go, I shouldn't be thinking like this. This is a mistake. I'm supposed to do this or I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to love my child. I'm supposed to love every moment of parenthood. It's so challenging for some people to have children, and I'm so lucky. And I'm not supposed to feel this way or, you know, judging yourself doesn't fix anything. It just makes it worse. So I think giving yourself grace and acknowledging this is a massive change. And you can read as many parenting books as you want, but you have to. It's a lived experience thing. I think you have to give yourself time to adjust and, and you shouldn't rush the adjustment, and you shouldn't think that you have all the answers. And if you want to go back to work, that's great. If you don't want to go back to work, that's great. It. It's something that's going to evolve over time. And I feel like now, seven years later, I'm just starting to hit my stride in terms of feeling ownership of my career and who I am and feeling comfortable with the decisions I'm making and comfortable enough to say no and brave enough to take leaps that I didn't feel safe taking. That's the. The most important thing. It takes time. And if you don't have all of the answers in six months, that's normal and healthy, probably.

Jefferson Fisher

Why do you feel, to me, the emotion that comes up there is regret? You know this. Well, actually, if I dig deeper, I think the better emotion is guilt.

Claire Holt

Yes.

Jefferson Fisher

Why do you. Why do you feel that? I'm going to put this in again. I'm not a mother. Right. I'm I am a husband who does what his wife says.

Claire Holt

You probably have some pretty good insights.

Jefferson Fisher

I do have some insights, but I. You have a very unique perspective and. And the listeners of this podcast too as well. I'm curious on your take of why that sense of guilt. Is that something you felt? Is that something you continue to feel? And if you don't feel it anymore, how have you overcome it?

Claire Holt

So I've always had a very overdeveloped sense of guilt, even from when I was a teenager. I mean, I remember being 13 years old at a sleepover, I took a puff of a cigarette and I called my parents and I said, you have to come and pick me up. I have to tell you something. They came and picked me up at 11 o' clock at night. And I stood there and said, I have to confess. I took a pop of a cigarette. I understand if you have massive consequences for me. I'm so sorry. So I've always had that feeling inside of me and it just increased a thousandfold when I had kids. And every thought, you know, this is the wrong thought. This. I'm not with my child enough. I don't want to be with my child. I feel guilty because I want some time to myself right now.

Jefferson Fisher

Yes. This is what I'm talking about. Yes. That right there, that kind of like back and forth guilt, but it also feels like starts really young. I see this even there's a big difference. Like my son doesn't feel a thing. My daughter can be the first. Like I need to tell you this because it weighs so heavy on her. And that's just really curious to me of like guilt about one, then guilt on the other. Yeah. You think it's a nature nurture.

Claire Holt

I think it's nature. I think I was born that way. Maybe your daughter was born that way. My oldest son was born that way. My daughter, she doesn't feel bad. She's good, you know, So I, I recently heard something and it has changed my perspective on guilt. And guilt is when you. You should feel guilty when you're acting in misalignment with your values. So if I'm going to exercise, I'm taking an hour away from my kids because I'm going to go for a run. What are my values? I value being healthy and strong so I can take care of my kids. I value hard work, training for something. Exercise is a core belief that I think is. It's really important. So is it in misalignment with my values if I go out for a run for an hour? No, I should feel good about that. So I'm not going to feel guilty when I go away on a work trip. I value hard work. I value, you know, building something or an entrepreneurial spirit. I, I value showing my kids that if you want something, you can go after it. So if I'm away on a work trip, is that in misalignment with my values? No, I shouldn't feel guilty. So I always have this system where I judge what I'm doing, what are my values, and if I'm acting in accordance with my values, the guilt has to stop and I put it to the side and I move on. And that's really helped me to reframe because before that it was just, I'm a bad mum. Oh, I'm not there. Oh, I'm traveling. Oh, I'm on a plane. I've got a two hour run that I've got to do for my marathon training. And I feel so bad because my husband's going to take my son to soccer and I'm going to miss his soccer game because I'm just this crazy spinning wheel of thoughts that were not productive. And so that's really, really helped me for sure.

Jefferson Fisher

Even last night, like in my home at Sierra, we were going to go to a charity event and instead I needed to do this interview webinar thing that was also equally important. And that was going to mean that I was going to have some, we found a babysitter, have some babysitter help and I was going to make it work. I'm saying, hey, I'm going to, we're going to be fine. I'll take care of dinner. And she just had so much guil. Did she? Over the fact of even going for an hour, you know, to this event. And I think it comes up over time and I know everybody listening can relate to this kind of guilt cycle of I'm away from my kids. Also when I'm with my kids, I feel guilty that I'm not doing something else. I'm not keeping all the, I'm not juggling all the balls in the air. And what I hear you saying is, well, you found to stop your cycle when you go through that guilt cycle is to ask the question, am I acting in alignment with my values? And which is going to require some sense of what are my values? Is it? Yeah, you know, I'm gonna, you're gonna be a better mom when you show up happy, fulfilled, whether it's health or whether it's mental clarity, you know, it's it's. And the family wants you to go do these things because they know it's gonna, like, refresh you in some way, like fill your.

Claire Holt

I think it's challenging, you know, when you're at the phase or the stage where the child's crying for you. Right. They're no, mommy, don't go, no, daddy, don't go. Or they need I need you to put me to bed. Or they're having some form of anxiety and that makes that feeling so much more intense. And I think it's, I'm sure it's a biological process like you're nature is to be a caretaker and to take care of this baby, this infant, this toddler, whatever it is. But I also try tell myself in those moments, I'm teaching them that they have the skills to handle discomfort. I'm not going to fix the discomfort that comes up for them when they want me to be there when they need something, when they're feeling all of this anxiety in their body. It's my job to teach them how to handle that, not to fix it for them. So.

Jefferson Fisher

Oh, that's powerful, Claire. Yeah, that's great.

Claire Holt

Thank you. I think that's big. It's helped. I mean, listen, it's been seven years of trying to figure out the right way to do it, and I don't. I've certainly not done that yet. But these things really help me. And when I feel sturdy and when I feel like a strong leader, I see it reflected in my kids.

Jefferson Fisher

This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. One thing I love about Cozy Earth is their bed sheets. If you've never slept on Cozy Earth bamboo bed sheets, you don't know what you're missing. We have been using those bed sheets for over a year now. Not the same ones, obviously. We've, we washed them, changed them, changed them out for a long time now, and they're fantastic. And I tell all of my friends about what they are that we gift them. They're just excellent. So if you are somebody that, that you are very particular about the thread count and how comfortable it is and you go to other hotels and you miss your bed back home, you're going to love Cozy Earth bed sheets. I know I do. Cozyearth.com Jefferson use the code JEFFERSON for up to 20% off. Cozyearth.com JEFFERSON use the code JEFFERSON for 20% off. And now enjoy the episode. Now, we've talked about moms and we're going to. I definitely want to keep on this motherhood thread. I also Want to pause and say, hey, do you have any advice for the bonehead caveman husbands like me? You know who. How was your. How is your husband? He's your partner, supported you in this. In these moments when you're kind of in the. The guilt cycle of having different wants and being pulled different directions and to encourage you to say, hey, I'm gonna be here for sure no matter what, what's the best way that he's been able to show up?

Claire Holt

There's a few things. And first of all, like you saying that showing up, he just shows up, he's there and you know, sometimes he asks me, do you want comfort or solutions right now? Cause he's a solutions oriented guy and he's very used to fixing things. So sometimes he'll give me, why don't you do this, why don't you do that? And I'm like, I don't wanna hear it, I just wanna complain.

Jefferson Fisher

Right?

Claire Holt

And he's am. I think also, you know, we had a journey because when I first had children, a lot of resentment came up because so much in my life changed. And I wouldn't say very little, but not that much changed in his, you know, he still got to. He, he didn't have to carry the baby, he didn't have to go through pregnancy and postpartum, he didn't have. He could just. He took the two weeks off and it was awesome and amazing. But then he went right back to work and everything was the same. And I was like, hold on a second. How is this fair? Every single moment of my life, I am consumed with this. Childbearing, giving birth, postpartum, raising, feeding, the pressures that come with that. You know, it's my responsibility to breastfeed. It's my responsibility to take care of this baby. When he cries, he needs me. And I felt really resentful because I had focused so much on my career for so long. And, you know, I'm sure that that was very hard for him to navigate, but he just listened and he totally understood. And he never made me wrong and he never tried to tell me, no, you, I. Things have changed. I can't travel, I can't. You know, he never did any of that. He just went, I hear you. I'm really sorry. I'm here for you if you want to talk about it. And that was super helpful. He validated that. And he's such a hands on dad. Like now, especially with slightly older kids, I feel so comfortable going, here they are, I'm off. And you know, we have help. But I'm very confident that my husband could take care of all three children by himself for a week and they'd be fine. Things may not be done the way I do them, but they'd be done the way he does them and he's their dad and it's great. So I think just understanding that it's more than just having a baby, this identity shift and all of the things that come with it, it's so impactful for the mother, for the woman. And so just like listening and understanding and giving a little grace. We may be kind of difficult to be around sometimes and, and just acknowledging, okay, like, it's like, treat us like a toddler. You know, your toddler's having a tantrum. You're not going to make them wrong. You're not going to. You're just going to let them have their moment and they're going to work through it and then you're going to chat about it after. It's kind of similar, you know, let, let, let us work through our process. And so that's what he does. And he's awesome. And you know, we've been married for eight years and he's. I'm obsessed with him. He's the greatest guy ever.

Jefferson Fisher

That's awesome.

Claire Holt

So, yeah, it's really awesome.

Jefferson Fisher

I think we all, we all go through that, that toddler tantrum, you know, all of us, totally. And. But I think a lot of the times in relationships we have a hard time giving the same amount of rope, you know, to allow it to happen. Like if my daughter comes down the stairs and it's, let's say 8pm and she's crying and whiny and, you know, maybe her voice is louder and things and she's not liking stuff and she's crossing her arms. It's like, I'm not going to get mad at, like, how dare you behave this way to me. Of course I see it as, she's tired. She's totally, she's just totally, you know, or, or she's just hungry or she doesn't feel good. You know, these like, very natural things that we don't mind seeing that through the lens of our own children, but we have a hard time seeing it through the lens of the person we had the children with of understanding that they're also just as tired, just as hungry. And I do think that in any relationship, marriage or otherwise, brings up or highlights the everybody's own value of fairness. Like that just gets. That just gets exposed big time.

Claire Holt

For sure.

Jefferson Fisher

You Know me, fairness is not really a big, huge thing of my identity. It is absolutely the identity of my wife. Really, so. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, she's, she's big, big, big on fairness. And that's got passed on to my son. He is big, big, big on fairness. And so, you know, but, but those kind of things, relationships have a way of. Whatever identity you have is going to get brought up. You know, it's going to be tested, it's going to be pushed. And what you say, I think is really beautiful of that. Sometimes you just need to go a little easy on yourself. When you're in this career change and you're not really sure and you're feeling like you're in the guilt cycle, you need to go a little easy on yourself. Before we get going, I want to take a moment to tell you about mill. Now, there are a few things in life that come as surprises, and one I never really expected. You're is mill, all right. It is revolutionized how we do things in our kitchen. And there was, we know there was a time pre mill and post mill and this, in this post mill life, it's been awesome. What is mill? It is an automatic food recycler. So what you do is you take things like scraps of food, anything that you scrape off a plate or feed to a dog or go throw outside or whatever you would you put in the mill. It's next to no noise, it never smells. There's no fruit flies or anything. And what my kids love about it is like, my daughter will come. And by the way, she is very disciplined about what can go in this mill. So she loves any opportunity to go like, dad, can this go in the mill? Like, yeah, it can go. And so she throws it in there and the next morning it's dry shelf stable grounds. And it's like magic. And you, we, we thought it was going to be something of like, ah, I don't really know. It's awesome. And I think we've like had three personal friends of ours get it because it's that awesome. So if you are looking to change how you do things in the kitchen and be a little bit more environmentally friendly of how you handle food scraps, look no further than mill. Once it's shelf stable ground, you can do whatever you want with it. I think we filled ours twice, but it took two months, three months for that to even happen. So you can put up to 10 pounds of things in there. So if you are like me and you're ready to be in that post mill life, you can try Mil Risk Free for 90 days and get $75 off@mill.com Jefferson. That's $75 off at mill m I l l.com Jefferson. You won't regret it. And now let's keep going. So you were telling me, Claire, about the thing that your daughter came home with. Can you show me one more time what that was?

Claire Holt

Yeah, she came home. It was from her teacher. It says, give yourself grace. I love her teacher more than anything. And she's just so kind, the way she helps these children navigate the big feelings. And she knew I was going through a trickier time. I'm quite close to her, actually. She's so awesome. And so she. She sent this home with me, and I put it beside my desk. And I see it every day. And anytime I'm having a hard time and I'm thinking about myself, about my failures or my guilt or this or I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that. I just look at it and I pause. I'm a big visual person. I feel like if you have this reminder in front of you, a vision board, write something on your mirror. It really helps.

Jefferson Fisher

Is that why you think you turn to marathon running? Is, you know, you kind of subconsciously enjoy the. Yeah, exactly. He's getting all your trauma out.

Claire Holt

Exactly.

Jefferson Fisher

Is it that you. You know, there is the people who run marathons that I know in my life. In fact, Travis, who's one of the. The producer of the show. Okay, Travis, he does ultra marathons.

Claire Holt

Claire, damn. That is amazing.

Jefferson Fisher

Okay, he does. He does ultras. And last year, I think he did. He did an ultra, like every month. Okay.

Claire Holt

What?

Jefferson Fisher

He's about to run the Boston Marathon.

Claire Holt

I'm call you out. I'm going to Boston this weekend to cheer. I'm so excited. That's amazing.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah. Yeah. So like that one. I don't know if there's something broken in his mind. I don't know, but this is.

Claire Holt

This is definitely something broken in mind.

Jefferson Fisher

It's super impressive. And so do you find that it's part of this ethos of knowing that it's not a race, it's a marathon? It's. It's not just this one step. It's all the steps after it. It's not just this guilt here. It's where you, you know, your. Your life is not the sum of what your career is in the next year. You know, it's. It's like, you know, how can you be 80 years old and look back at your 37 year old self and say for sure that kid was just figuring it out, you know, what made you turn to running?

Claire Holt

It taught me so much about myself and I think throughout the process, number one, it was a confirmation that I can do really hard things. And I think when you actively choose to do hard things, it makes the rest of life easier because you know how to navigate it. You know how to navigate when a speed bump comes. You know how to navigate when something gets tough. You know that there's going to be moments in training, in a race, in life. It's an amazing metaphor for life where you feel so bad, but you also know around the corner there's going to be a moment where you feel high as a kite and you've never felt better and you could run another 30 miles and you, you're high five in people and, and those two moments are so much closer together often than you think they are. And so it, it really taught me that life and running and everything around it, it's, it's up and down, it ebbs and flows and nothing is permanent. And so you can have an amazing Race and you can have a terrible race. It's really outside of your control and it's really about what happens on the day. But, but your mindset is everything. And so I just, it changed my life when I signed up for that first race. Also, I needed a goal after having kids, I really, really wanted something to, to challenge myself with, to look forward to and to commit to. And so when I set this goal, I realized how powerful goal setting is and what a difference it can make to your psyche and your mindset. And so now like I can't stop my poor husband when my alarm goes off at 4:00am he's like, Please, come on.

Jefferson Fisher

Now. I know that when you are facing these big like seasons, at least this is just me. I think I'm really talking more like to myself on this is I, it helps me when I realize when I am in one season and not in another season, meaning I want to do all the things right, but that's not the season that I'm in. Like it would be great if I could go with friends or do this or go try that and go learn this. But that would take away from picking my kids up, putting them in the bed, breakfast in the morning. And I know it's like that's not my season. And so much I think when I come to peace with that, there is a big kind of emotional nod in my mind of like that's just not the season I'm in. You know, later in life, yeah, I'll get to have that chance, but that's not this season. And so when I know that that's going to be coming or it hasn't gone away and it helps me actually focus better for sure on, on the season I'm in. Do you, do you relate to that at all?

Claire Holt

Yeah, I, I find that sometimes when I see people having brunch on a Sunday with a mimosa and their friends and I look at it sometimes and I'm covered in like maple syrup from pancakes and like I'm trying to chase a kid around with a spoonful of eggs or something.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah.

Claire Holt

And then I go, I know that that's going to come back for me one day and I'm going to be wishing I had those sticky fingers on me. I know for sure. And so I can watch them and I can say, oh, that was a nice time in my life and I really did enjoy that. Maybe I didn't value the peace and quiet quite enough in that moment, but it's going to come back for me and nothing is going to compare to what I'm in now. This season, this beautiful, beautiful season. In fact, I find myself really struggling to let go of this season. And you know, should I have another baby? Should I just have 10 babies? It's the greatest thing of all time. It's the most beautiful. There's so much love. I love it. They're growing up. I can't bear the thought of them leaving me. And so. You're so right to be. I just try to remind myself, I know that this is not going to last forever. In fact, it's probably going to be another five, six, seven years of having kids in my house in the way that they are right now. And my gosh, am I going to miss it when it's gone.

Jefferson Fisher

Before we keep going, I'll take a moment to tell you about Zocdoc. I don't know about you, but my guess is if I know you, there is a doctor's appointment that you need to have. There's a dentist appointment, there's a dermatologist appointment, there's some kind of health related appointment that you have been needing to get put on the schedule and you've been avoiding it because there's always that one thing. I know because it happens to me. It took me way too long to schedule a dermatologist appointment that I know I need to do. I just haven't done ZocDoc. Makes it that much easier. So what it does, first off, it's all online and it can find health providers in your area that take your insurance, which is huge. And also on the platform itself, it will help set up the appointment for you, remind you for the appointment. So when they can make the process easier, it makes it easier to actually go to the appointment. With more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states, you can find everything from primary care to dentistry to dermatology, eye care, and more than 200 other specialties. You can search by specialty or even by symptom to build the care team that's right for you. Do you need an in person appointment? They can do that. Do you want a video visit? Awesome. They can do that too. You can read thousands of verified patient reviews and see real time availability. Appointments made through ZOCDOC happen fast and typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments. I'm talking to you. And go to Zocdoc.com Jefferson to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Zocdoc. Z o c d o c dot com jefferson zocdoc.com jefferson and now let's keep going. You shared something of, you know when you're kids that you feel like that, that push and pull of you leaving them and they want you to stay and you're teaching them to learn to handle the discomfort. Right. You're saying I can't do everything for you. You have to learn. I have to teach you how to handle the discomfort. And I feel like because we are now apparently adults, somehow that happened. Yeah. Is that right? I don't feel like that's right.

Claire Holt

I'm still 21.

Jefferson Fisher

That. Exactly that. It's marathons, it's, you know, the cold plunge, it's the, it's the hobbies, it's. Those are the things that have to teach us sometimes to live in the discomfort. And so you are, when you're doing the marathon and yeah, you have to run these. It's not like you can just go to the gym and do 30 minutes of a workout. Like a marathon takes a lot of training and a lot of miles and a lot of time. It's you having to live in that discomfort. You think that's some of what that's taught you?

Claire Holt

For sure. I mean, especially in Miami, Florida in the summer when you've got 20 miles to run and it's 87 degrees and 100% humidity outside. No, it's Interesting. I really feel that because I can do this, because I have shown myself that I can set my mind to something and achieve it, it's given me the courage and to do this new 2.0 of my life and my career and the thing that I was struggling with so much. Who am I? What should I do? Am I a business owner? Am I an investor? Am I creative? Am I still an actor? Am I a writer? Where am I going to go with this? What am I going to do with my life? Running marathons has given me the courage to try something that I didn't think I could do before. And so it's not just understanding that I can tolerate the discomfort, but maybe on the other side of that discomfort, there's something so incredible, and I have to just go for it and see what's there.

Jefferson Fisher

I think that's well said. Sometimes you just have to go for it and see what's there. But you got to go for it first. You know, you got to get it.

Claire Holt

So many of us have. It's not only, like, imposter syndrome or feeling like we can't do things. It's what's everyone going to think of me. And what I've realized is people don't think about you anywhere near as much as you think they do. And even if you don't finish the race, your business doesn't succeed in the way that you wanted it to. Whatever it is, no one cares. And. And it's such a freeing thing to think about. Like, you know, we spend so many years, our formative years, thinking that everybody cares about every single thing that you do. And then you just realize, like, we're all existing in our own world and we're all thinking about our own stuff. And so. So when you have that freedom to go, like, okay, if I don't finish the race, or I don't get to the end, or I don't get the time I want, like, it's fine. That's. It's nobody else's business but my own. And so that's a. Was a really, like, freeing thing for me to realize as well.

Jefferson Fisher

When you look at, you know, we. We talked about the season, the seasons of life and understanding what season you're in. And we've looked at how you handle that discomfort and given yourself some grace and getting out of that. That guilt cycle. Is there something that even now, even though, you know you can give yourself grace, you. You still struggle with a little bit?

Claire Holt

Yes. And that's being on my phone, because I, a Large part of my business, both social media, but also starting the business that I've just started. My fashion brand.

Jefferson Fisher

That's right. The T shirts, right?

Claire Holt

Yes. Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher

Do you have. Do you have a men's line or is this.

Claire Holt

We have a boyfriend tee that I make. My boyfriend. My husband wearing. He looks great.

Jefferson Fisher

Okay.

Claire Holt

But just women's for now.

Jefferson Fisher

Give me the hookup.

Claire Holt

You're so sweet. So a lot of my business is being on my phone, and I have to make a conscious effort to tell my kids, like, this is not, you know, I'm not just doing. I'm trying to work and finding that boundary of, like, okay, I have this device that keeps me connected and allows me to do all of this stuff in a moment's notice and fix problems and come up with solutions, whatever it is. But also, my kids don't know that. They don't know what's going on in their lives.

Jefferson Fisher

That's such a good point. Yeah.

Claire Holt

So I feel very guilty sometimes when I pull it out and my face is in and I hear my son trying to ask me a question or. And I have to say, just one minute, I'm just doing some work and. And they don't understand. And so that is. That's something I'm really trying to navigate now, especially in the world of social media. I made a pivot that I don't share my children's faces or voices anymore.

Jefferson Fisher

Same. I don't do that either.

Claire Holt

And that really, you know, when I started. When I started having kids, I did not understand at all. And I had had this process of really struggling. I had a miscarriage with my first pregnancy, and I was quite open about it, and I shared it online. And I got so much love and support, a tremendous amount of love and support. And I felt very connected to my community in this journey of becoming a mother. And so it just felt natural to me, oh, well, this is my baby. I'm just going to share my kids. And then I started sharing and I would talk about it, and I didn't know really what was happening on the Internet that. But I mean, I did, but I didn't really understand. And then as time went on, I started to feel more and more uncomfortable about it. But I was like, well, I've already shared them. I've already shared their lives. Like, what, do I just stop? And then. And then finally I got to a place where I was like, you know what? I'm not going to make a big hurrah about it, but I'm not going to do this anymore. It doesn't feel right. My, you know, it's misaligned with my values. These are not my values. And so I stopped sharing them. And I think that's created like a really healthy boundary. But I still have to be on Instagram for my business. I still have to be on my emails. I still have to do things on my phone. And so I really struggle with that, how to explain to them. It's not like you just clock in to a nine to five. It's a very different world that we live in now. And so that I'm working on that one.

Jefferson Fisher

You care if I. I share some things, at least what I've learned.

Claire Holt

Please, please.

Jefferson Fisher

Social media aspect of it all is. And I'm certainly no expert of the right way to, to do it because I've struggled with a lot of that same stuff. So I very much relate to that. There is a fear in me that what I don't want is my kids at the age of 24, 27, 33, where they're in therapy and they have to tell the therapist because my. My parents, you know, emotionally abandoned me because they looked at their screen more than me. You know, they got chills.

Claire Holt

I feel the same way, you know,

Jefferson Fisher

and it just, it. It is. I'm telling you, Claire, it's in my nightmares.

Claire Holt

Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher

That it's going to be where they're having these moments where they're telling the therapist. You know, I can remember asking them to look and they're just looking at their screens. Or we're at dinner and I'm eating and they're looking at their phones and they telling me no screen time. They're telling me no tv, totally no video games, but yet they're looking at their phone. And, you know, I think it's going to. I truly. If I'm projecting, I think it's going to be a pandemic in some sense. I'm setting about the children of the people who got these smartphones because this wasn't here before. And so I feel like that's kind of our age of smartphones. So that aside. And I know you and I share that same fear back in. This was. This is almost a year ago, probably eight months ago, I decided I wasn't going to have social media on my phone anymore. Like my own. My own phone. I'm not saying that from a position of. I know, right. I'm just saying it got to a point of unhealthy for me because I find that I would look at Instagram, I Have a lot of followers. You have a ton of followers. And I'd swipe off of it, and then I'd find myself all of a sudden, without thinking, clicking on it just again, 100%. And it's like, it doesn't. Nothing's changed. But yet. And that. That was my moment of, like, this isn't healthy for me. This isn't. This isn't. This isn't good for me. I felt like. And so when I, like, I have my phone right here. No, no social media on it. Instead, I've been able to get a team that shares in things, helps and things, monitors messages, emails, and stuff to where I let them handle it, because I realize that's not good for me. I'll tell you what my wife and I do is when we get home, we pick up the kids, our phone goes on what we call it home mode. So that's our nice way of, like, instead of her telling me, hey, can you put up your phone? Which is going to make me defensive, you know, and like, if your husband was like, okay, you. What are you doing? Just. Are you doing. What are you doing on your phone? And immediately you're like, I got to finish this. Right? And then it makes you feel like that guilt comes in again. I need to finish this. I know. I need a home. I'm trying to. Just one second. Just one. And instead of that, when we ask, you know, are you good with. Can we put phones on? Home mode is the way is like our cue of we're going to put our phones down for a few hours while the kids. So they don't see us on them, and then know that when we do bath in bed, then we can have, you know, 30 minutes to an hour of like, whatever we need to catch up on. But that's. We're still trying to figure it out.

Claire Holt

Listen, and we do phone free Sundays now, so.

Jefferson Fisher

Oh, that's good.

Claire Holt

My husband leaves his phone by our bedside table. He doesn't touch it for one second on Sunday. I have it for logistics. So if I gotta order a pizza or if I've got a. Yeah, I got the phone for that.

Jefferson Fisher

There's gonna have to be something that social media.

Claire Holt

Yeah, yeah. Practical or someone's an emergency. They need to contact us for sure. But it sits in a little basket in our kitchen. I don't touch it. I'll just check it maybe like, yeah,

Jefferson Fisher

we have a little bowl in our kitchen. That's exactly what. Yeah.

Claire Holt

And that's.

Jefferson Fisher

I think that that's gonna be something that's gonna be in. Yeah.

Claire Holt

Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher

How has it affected Yalls life?

Claire Holt

Oh, my gosh. Which is so much. I'm so much more present with my kids. I'm so much happier on a Sunday because I don't have any FOMO whatsoever. Like, all these people are doing these things, and I'm just, you know, like, wiping butts. I have none of that. We go swimming. We go to the beach. We. We play games. I teach them games from when I was a kid, like foot wrestling and. And it's been so beautiful because our kids know if my mom has to do something for work or she's on her phone or whatever, they know Sunday is our day. That's our family day, and that's really helped. I would love to get better. I would love to get to a position where I don't touch it at all when I'm around them. But I also am trying to give myself grace and explain to who I am, what I'm doing. But it's a huge fear of mine. A huge fear of mine.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah, I. I can definitely relate in that fear, you know, and how we. How we show up as. As parents. And I think that's. That plays a big part. You told me that struggling on your phone, you know, is there a. Is there a part of your mindset that struggles? Is it. Is it doubt over whether you're doing the right thing? And, like, I'm trying to give. Let's put it this way for the listener who says, claire, I feel like I'm in the exact same season you were seven years ago or even four months ago when you decided to make the leap to take a step back from acting. And I'm right there on the edge, and I don't know what I should do. What would you tell that person?

Claire Holt

It's interesting because it's different for every. Everyone. And I think I would say give yourself time to figure it out. Don't feel like you have to have the answer right now because it's going to take time. And, you know, you may want to go back to the career you had before, but it may not be available to you. And you're only going to figure that out when you get there and you try. And then you're going to have to pivot. But again, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. This. This version of yourself doesn't have to come to you immediately. It will take time. And it may be uncomfortable. It may feel uncomfortable that you don't have the answers right away, but really trying to be present and to sit in that and to acknowledge it and not rush to change it, but just sort of work through it, I think is the best advice I could give. I still don't have it. Right. Like, I still don't know. And it took me a long time to feel comfortable. When people ask me, what do you do? I would always say, I'm an actor. I'm an actor. And then it became, oh, I'm just a mom. Oh, I'm just a mom. And now it's. I do a lot of stuff, actually. It's really. It's really fun. I'm having a great time. I don't need to identify what I am, what I do, who I am to anyone. I, um. And that's. That's something that, you know, it took me seven years to get there, so. Takes time.

Jefferson Fisher

It does. And I think what I hear you saying is, whatever time you think you have to figure it out, whatever time you think you need, give yourself more, you know, Give. Give yourself more. Whatever time you think it's. It should take double it. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever time you think it should take, double it. Because most likely you're being the hardest critic of yourself. You're harshest on. I should have figured this out by now. I'm waiting. I'm taking too long. I'm getting too old. I don't have this. All right? It's like whatever time you think that you double it, give yourself a little bit more time, which I think plays right into your. Give yourself a little bit more grace.

Claire Holt

And I think the other thing that is really important is you get to decide how you feel about any given situational moment. And sometimes when I'm really struggling and I'm in that hole, I have to remind myself, wait a second. I can change how I feel in the snap of my fingers. I can decide I'm going to be happy right now. I'm going to decide to look for the good in what I have around me right now. I'm going to decide to lock in on the giggles of my kids and how that makes me feel. And you having those, like, micro moments of control sometimes help you to feel a little more in control of your life as a whole.

Jefferson Fisher

I think that's really awesome. And do you feel that the parts of you that have been in your whole career in acting, do you think that is played to be a strength or a weakness? You know, in this, or maybe not a weakness, but at least sometimes a hurdle or an obstacle in the life that you have now in terms of

Claire Holt

putting on a front or acting as something else.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah, yeah. Trying. Trying to say, am I, am I really being clear or am I trying to put on, put on the role of, of mom?

Claire Holt

Oh, yeah, for sure. And it's because I didn't feel good about myself and who I was. And those insecurities led me to act as if. Or put on a front or, you know, hide behind. Well, I'm an actor. I'm this, I'm that, or I'm just a mom. And I mean, I've been in therapy for almost 20 years. Like I, it. It's taken me so long to work through all of this stuff and, and, and to get to a place where I feel super comfortable with who I am. And so that's another thing I would suggest. You know, it doesn't have to be a therapist, but just talk to someone. Don't do it by yourself. You don't have to sit in that world of, of discomfort or insecurity alone. And hopefully you have a partner, especially if your mother. Hopefully you have a partner that you can share that with and be vulnerable with. Because sometimes just speaking it out loud gives you freedom as well.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah. I think I read recently of you're not meant to heal alone. And I think it's something that stuck with me. Claire, thank you so much for.

Claire Holt

Thank you so much for having me with me.

Jefferson Fisher

Yeah. Getting to hear how you approach life. And I know I can tell that we're in the same season, you know, right now. And that gives me. That gives me a lot of hope and a good reminder you're a little

Claire Holt

bit further ahead in the season.

Jefferson Fisher

That's true. I can't tell them to go get ready for bed and they go do it. So.

Claire Holt

That is nice. They listen to you.

Jefferson Fisher

What a dream that is. Yeah. No, they don't. And my favorite is when my wife will, you know, Sierra will do something of like, okay, Mr. Communication, like if I totally blow it, stop with my kids. Stop. Amazing.

Claire Holt

She calls you out.

Jefferson Fisher

It's awesome though.

Claire Holt

Sounds like you had a great wife.

Jefferson Fisher

I do. I really do. Awesome. Claire, thank you so much.

Claire Holt

Thank you for your time.

Jefferson Fisher

I look forward to seeing it.

Claire Holt

Great to talk to you. Likewise.

Sponsor/Ad Narrator

Athletic Brewing Company crafts award winning non alcoholic beers for those who want to be part of every round. With over 185 flavor awards, they're exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle and any social occasion. Summer's full of good times and athletic fits right in. Go to athleticbrewing.com to have brews delivered to your door or find them at a bar, restaurant or store near you. Near Beer Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all Times.