A

Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You want to know one of the hardest things in life? It's figuring out your purpose. Why are you here? What are you supposed to be doing with your life? Can you create a good life and live with more meaning when the world is so overwhelming or the problems that you're facing feel insurmountable? Is that even possible? Well, Dr. Dacher Keltner, who is the founder and director of the Greater Good Science center, is here to tell you, yes, you can live a more meaningful life. And when your life is challenging, that's exactly the moment when you need to anchor in on your purpose even more. By the end of this episode, you will have answered two questions that are proven to help you discover your purpose. And you'll also understand the six common ways people find more meaning and purpose in their lives. And that's gonna help you zero in on yours. You will also master a one minute habit that reduces depression, anxiety, daily stress, and will make you feel more purposeful. And it's free and you can practice it tonight. And even if you already have a strong sense of purpose, today's conversation is going to help you go even deeper. Because that's exactly what happened to me as I was talking to Dr. Keltner. And if you're feeling totally lost, you're in the exact place you need to be. Because what Dr. Keltner is here to share with you, it is easy, simple. It'll make you feel better and could be completely life changing. This podcast is brought to you by Expedia. If you haven't booked your next trip yet, now is the time. Whether you're going to fly across the country, or maybe you just want to explore a cool beach town this summer, Expedia makes it easy. Flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars, activities. Everything you need in one place. That means no jumping between sites, no hassle. And when you bundle, you can save up to 30% with everything you need in one app. So sign in to save savingsvery Expedia, the one place you go to go places. The Mel Robbins Podcast is proudly sponsored by Ameca Insurance, our exclusive insurance partner. You know how good it feels when someone makes your life easier? Oh, I just love those kind of people. That's why I love Ameca. They go the extra mile in the moments you need it most. Listening, following up, and treating you like a real human being. And because they're a mutual insurer, the whole model is built around putting customers first. It's refreshing. It's rare. It's coverage with empathy and it's exactly how insurance should feel. Amica where your priority number one? Visit amica.com and get a quote today. This episode is brought to you by Peacock and the new original series the Five Star Weekend. Jennifer Garner stars as Hollis Shaw, a a famed cook who invites her best friends to Nantucket after a devastating loss changes her life. As boundaries are pushed, friendships are tested and secrets are exposed, cracks begin to emerge in her picture perfect life. Based on the bestselling novel by Ellen Hilderbrand, this a list ensemble also stars Darcy Cardin, Gemma Chan, Regina hall and Chloe Sevigny. The five Star Weekend is now streaming only on Peacock. Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so glad that you're here with me. It's an honor to spend this time together with you and if you're new or somebody shared this episode with you, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast Family. Today you and I are talking all about how to find purpose and live a meaningful life, even when the world is overwhelming. Our guest today is Dr. Dacher Keltner. Dr. Keltner is one of the world's leading experts on the science of meaning and purpose, and the tools that he's about to share with you are Based on over 40 years of research on how to live a meaningful life. Dr. Keltner is a distinguished professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and the founding director of the Greater Good Science center, one of the world's leading research centers studying the science of Happiness Connection. Dr. Keltner has published over 200 scientific papers, written six bestselling books on the science of a meaningful life, including his most recent book, the New Science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. Please help me welcome Dr. Dacher Keltner to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Dacher Keltner, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

B

It's good to be with you, Mel.

A

It is so good to be with you and I'm really excited for our conversation because I'm familiar with your work and I use it and it's exciting to be with you because your energy is extremely grounding. I'd love to have you speak to the person who's here with us and just share a little bit about what your extraordinary research might change in their life if they were to take it and apply it just day to day in the simplest ways.

B

Yeah, I think that the central message of today hard won by science. We have such strength Inside of us, we have such a sense of how to make the world better. We can find beauty around us. We have a sense of calling and a way to improve the lives of people. And we just need to feel that and to sense that in ourselves. This is free, it's in us. It just takes a little bit of inquiry. And then we just have to put it into a practice. A few minutes a day, and it will lead you in good directions.

A

I'm gonna feel better despite the state of the world after everything you're gonna.

B

Yeah. I mean, this is a time of crisis for a lot of people. People. A lot of people are struggling. A lot of people are very tired, so grounded in that. You know, what we're gonna be talking about today is how do we find purpose? How do you find a sense of calling? No matter what you're doing, how do you find the simple beauties and people around you in awe?

A

It's the perfect thing that we all need to be talking about and learning about right now. So I'm grateful that you're here.

B

Thank you.

A

You know, Dr. Keltner, you founded the Greater Good Science Center.

B

Yeah.

A

You've been doing research for the last 25 plus years on what makes for a meaningful life purpose, happiness. We're gonna talk a lot about the research around awe. What are the most important things that you need in order to live a good life based on the research?

B

I mean, the science of happiness just exploded, you know, the past 30, 40 years. And I got swept up into it as a young scientist. And we have learned a lot. You know, we've learned that money matters a little, you know, so your context matters. It's great to be in a democracy as opposed to an authoritarian culture. Right. So good to have a healthy body. But what my field, psychological science, is really interested in is what can we do in our minds? You know, what can we do right now? What can we do with the people around us? And, you know, we know one thing that really matters is just little moments of joy and beauty and laughter and gratitude and awe and love, kindness. Just find those little moments, five minutes a week, where you're savoring a moment of beauty or thinking what you're grateful for. It's a time of hardship right now. There's no doubt about it. I've been following data for 35, 40 years, and stress is higher. Younger people are struggling. It's hard to know where we find meaning in life. The climate crisis, the political crisis, et cetera. So you gotta figure out a moment or Two each day where you just pause and slow down and find some peace. Might be the sunset, it might be piece of music. It might be how you journal it. Might be listening to your show. Find a little peace in face of stress. And then, you know, I'm an introvert and I always struggled with the connect to everybody. I was like, ah, you know, I like solitude, you know, but alongside moments of joy and just finding peace is just find little moments where you're connected to people. I love this new literature on micro social interactions. Little bit of eye contact, saying hi to somebody, going to a farmer's market. Just little moments where you're like, I'm part of humanity. So that's what I teach students. A little bit of joy. Find a way to get calm and then just connect a little and you'll be on your way.

A

I'm just speaking on behalf of the person who is with us.

B

Yeah.

A

And maybe they're exhausted.

B

Yeah.

A

And as you just said, there's a lot of reasons to feel beaten up by life right now. A bit resigned and sad about the state of the world or the state of your family or your job or bank account. So if they heard you say, just find five minutes, little moment of joy or kindness or micro connection. And I can almost feel them rolling their eyes like, oh, For God's sakes, Dr. Keltner, seriously, like five minutes a week is gonna. What does it do? Like when you look at the research. Cause I believe this.

B

Yeah.

A

But you also have decades of research about why these micro moments of peace can actually help you through very challenging periods in your life.

B

We have worked with high schoolers in, in really under resourced high schools where it's tough and there's not a lot of hope. And they're looking at a different kind of job market. And if they feel a little bit of hope or find a little bit of awe, they enjoy their studies more. We have worked with veterans who twice the rates of PTSD as the average civilian in the United States. And little moments of awe reduce PTSD 32%. We work with healthcare providers, doctors and nurses during COVID chaos, right under resourced, understaffed. And we just asked them, like, find one minute right now of what's wonderful or awesome about life. And they're in a hospital, fluorescent lights, people are dying, they're working 14 hours a day. And they're like, you know, that woman who had a terminal diagnosis was so gracious and grateful to me and gave me a big hug. And that was remarkable. Human character remarks right so what this tells us is this stuff is deep in us. We've lost sight of it. Our culture is making it hard to get to. So we gotta take action and just find a couple minutes of it each day.

A

Why do you think it, like, buoys you up so much, particularly in a moment like this? Because I know how resigned and discouraged people feel. Cause I read it, comments online. I feel it when I look at the state of the world or the headlines, this weariness. But why do you think this does not only give you a sense of hope, but it's a very important thing to be proactive about, especially right now.

B

When you're stressed, a part of your brain, the amygdala, is activated. You're seeing threat everywhere. You are overestimating uncertainty. Cortisol, the stress hormone, is pulsing through your veins. Your body is acting as if you are being chased by a big predator. Right?

A

Yeah.

B

That's exhausting. And even if you have all the resources in the world, that stress exhausts you. And you wake up tired. You don't feel like you have the energy to take on the things that face you. What's amazing, Mel, is these emotions of gratitude and beauty and practicing a bit of kindness activate an energizing part of your nervous system. Oh, the vagus nerve, which calms your body and makes you feel strong and makes you feel open. It regulates your immune system in a healthy way. It activates dopamine. Right. So you get this dopamine, which is like energy and purpose. You practice a little love or you give some resources, you volunteer for someone and you help them out. And suddenly it's like, I feel powerful. You know, I feel like this is who I should be. And. And that's why we should be practicing this stuff. Just a few minutes a day. It doesn't cost you anything. And man, is it good for your body and good for the exhaustion that so many of us feel today.

A

I think oftentimes you can go through extremely challenging periods in life. We all do. And we have words like, I feel lost, I feel stuck, I feel frustrated, I feel sad. Things feel heavy, like this sense of despair. But when you look at the research that you've done, how would you define purposeless? So that the person who's listening might be able to go, oh, that's what it is, or, oh, that's what my daughter's dealing with.

B

Purposeful is, you know, you have a really sharp focus mentally, your mind is, I know the 12 things I need to do to get this task done or to help My teenager, you know, think effectively about what to do next. So you have a sharp focus. Purposelessness is really diffuse and vague, right? And your mind feels kind of unfocused, you know, and when you're feeling purposeful, you're. You're moving forward. You've got that dopamine energy. It's core to purposeful behavior. You're feeling empowered. And purposelessness is, you know, feeling listless, and you don't have a lot of energy. We feel a deep sense of purpose when we feel like the things we do are connected to things that are larger than the self. I remember interviewing Yumi Kendall, who's this cellist for the Philadelphia Symphony, one of the great cellists and a friend of mine. And I was like, man, you know, being a musician's hard. You know, make a lot of money, work all the time. It's super competitive. There was sexism in the field and so forth. And she said, you know, every time I play my cello, as the notes go out, I feel connected to the audience, and I feel like I'm connected to the history of music. And that's purpose, right? What I'm doing right now is connected to something larger than the self. And when you feel purposeless, you're unaware of how you are part of a bigger story, and we need that.

A

Dr. Kellner, I just want to pause right there because here's what I found to be insanely helpful. Well, because you hear the word purpose, and for decades of my life, I always thought that purpose was a thing outside of me, and it was something to find. And what I love about your distinction between this feeling of purposelessness versus waking up and living in a purposeful way is you just located all the power within us. And I've never heard anybody describe it that way, that purposeful is a way you can move through your day, and purposelessness is a way that you can move through not only your day and your weeks and your months and your years, but it's very helpful to think about it that way, because it somehow demystifies that there's some magical thing that is going to change all of this that's outside of me that I somehow have to find, versus actually, I could access being more purposeful today, and that might change things. Am I tracking correctly?

B

And it's so important. And you're getting it exactly right. And it's, you know, for any age person, right? You think about, you know, a person in the middle of their career, and they're a nurse and they're working long Hours, Right. And they're. It's exhausting, that kind of work. High pressure. You think about a teenager facing our world today, like, what is their purpose going to be for the next generation? You think about somebody in the last quarter of their life. And Amy Wisniewski at Yale had this idea called calling. And she said, as long as you locate within you, like, this is who I am and this is what I want to serve in the world. Some larger thing. If you can figure that out right, you might be a carpenter on a project or a roofer, or a nurse in a hospital, or a school teacher. If you start to see that in yourself. For me, when I realized my purpose is to teach, I come from a long line of teachers. I didn't know that once you realize, like, this is in me and I'm serving some part of the world, through this action, you'll find purpose. And it gives us a lot of power in some sense and agency to find that.

A

Could you, for the person listening, give some examples of how you might flip your mindset to this moment and today? And what would be an example of flipping from feeling purposelessness to saying, okay, I know I'm tired, but I'm gonna be more purposeful for the rest of the day. What would that look like?

B

Yeah, you know, I mean, I had a very poignant experience of that when I lost my younger brother. I am a hard working person, like a lot of people listening, and had a lot of purpose. And then somehow the grief kind of dislocated me and I felt just profoundly exhausted and without this sense of inspiration that he provided me. And purposeless is how it felt. And I think that what you really need to do is you need to just kind of pause and reflect and think about what are the moments of purpose in this day. And for me, what was clear is I have a commitment to orienting with kindness to other people. You know, that's not a radical idea. Almost every great ethical tradition thinks that's where we should begin. From Confucianism to the Abrahamic traditions to contemporary philosophy. It's like, practice kindness, practice it, you know, when you're walking through a city, practice it when you're helping somebody get across the street. Practice it in your daily work Life. And then 30 to 40% of Americans volunteer. It's really good when you're really exhausted to return to this great tradition of our culture. Like, who can I volunteer for right now? And so those little moments, those little small steps of purposefulness really matter.

A

You also mentioned calling. Yeah, do you have any guidance for us on how you can begin to find your calling?

B

I think this is going to be one of the central challenges of the next 40 years. It begins with, like, having people think about what their core strengths are. Think about what you really care about. Think about the communities you want to be with. You want to think about who you want to serve. Right. As calling. And once Amy Wisniewski at Yale has this famous example of one of the people who's literally cleaning out bedpans in a hospital, said, this is such vital work because I keep the place clean. And he knew he was serving people. So you start asking those questions. I think things will clarify.

A

Could you speak directly to the person who's listening, who is really struggling with trying to figure out their path in this really confusing moment in time?

B

This is, in some sense the biggest question in life is like, what will my philosophy of life be? How will I find meaning? I think you have to think about your core concerns, what you really care about in life, and really think about the ways they present opportunities in your daily living. It might be that you really love taking care of nature and then build that into as much you can, your, your off hours, your work and so forth. People have moved out of the church and are finding spirit and a sense of higher purpose in yoga meditation. 40% of Americans find it in nature. So you want to be thinking about what is my soul? You know, what is a higher purpose, source of meaning. I love the work on what's called the social biome.

A

What is that? Social biome?

B

Social biome is just like, we know connection matters, but it can be exhausting and hard. And, you know, I gotta like getting all these texts and, you know, what do I do? And it just, it just offers some simple ways to, like, say hi to some strangers and strike up a conversation and make sure you got one good friend you can talk to, you know, and that's, that's about all you need. And so think about what your ideal social environment is. So this is a challenge of our times is to, in this time of crisis, to, like, figure out how to find meaning again.

A

Well, it ties back to all of your research and your guidance telling us that you need to, or the opportunity is to develop a mindset and an attitude about your own life where you're more purposeful.

B

Yeah.

A

And it's very clear based on what you just shared and based on all this research, that it begins with an inquiry.

B

It does. You think about 60, 70 years ago, 90% of Americans went to church and you go, or synagogue or whatever your practice is. And you would go in, and that's inquiry. You know, how do we think about these big questions about life and existence, life and death, and what's divinity, et cetera. And we in some sense lost that. And it really needs to be reintroduced. And I tell the thousands of students I teach each year like, this is the central question in life, your philosophy of life. There are a lot of tools out there. I can't package something to you and give it to you. You got to discover it. And then there are some great forms of guidance to follow to get there.

A

You know, it's magical that you're sitting here because as we were driving over this morning, my sister in law, Christine, who's also our chief operating officer, we were just kind of chatting about what we were doing this weekend because I live in Vermont, she lives outside of Chicago. And she was saying, I went to church and I just love going to church. And she said, I love going because it just gives me a chance to step out of the busyness of life and to sit quietly and to contemplate bigger themes and to be reminded that there is something much larger in life than the things that are going on in my life. She said, you know, it makes me very sad that so many people have left places of worship for good reason. You know, a lot of people leave and don't have the ritual of being in contemplation and being in community and really reflecting on larger themes about life that remind you that it's not about you, that there's something bigger going on that connects us all. And I know we're gonna get into the research around this, but you do keep bringing up church. Yeah, but I know that you're not bringing it up to say that you need to go to church.

B

I don't go to church.

A

You're basically saying there are places and structures that used to be in our day to day life that got weeded out because of productivity and work and travel, sports and disenfranchisement with what was happening in the leadership in some of these places. But we've lost something. So if you take the church or the synagogue or the mosque or the actual kind of secular nature out of it, what is it that we've lost that you want the person listening to really get purposeful about?

B

Oh, Mel, what a wonderful summary. And every now and then you're just awestruck by an observation or an insight. And Jane Goodall, who's one of my heroes, you know who studied the chimpanzees and fought for their protection. And she really felt, as Charles Darwin did, that chimps had a sense of wonder and awe. And she even said spirituality, she said, which is really very simply being amazed at things outside of yourself. And that's where purpose comes from, is I have this self and I'm going to navigate the world and meet my needs. But as humans and as mammals, I am able to connect to things in a service filled way that are outside of me. Right. And we used to find that in church and that is one of the fundamental strengths and forms of empowerment in church. And now we're adrift of that. And like you said, the productivity emphasis and the emphasis on writing code as opposed to reading a novel and thinking about what does it mean to fall in love or how do I think about life and death. We've lost it and I think it'll return. I think people are starting to wonder about that. And I don't bring up the yoga example as a silly example. It's very serious, which is it has this structure that you talked about of I'm with people, we're breathing together, we're quiet together, we're reflecting together, we're doing these ancient practices and there's a lot of that that we can find in our lives.

A

So, Dr. Keltner, I can tell, especially given that you've been a professor for decades, that you're very worried about the state of the world. And you're worried in what you're seeing and what the research shows, which is, you know, when I think back, I'm 57. When I think back, however many decades that I was in college, you were like a little acorn ready to crack open and grow into a mighty oak and full of wonder and oh my gosh. And it's discouraging to hear your observation that you're not seeing that. So what is it that you think every 20 something needs to hear?

B

What I really started to emphasize in my teaching, I teach happiness to 500 students each year. Is the most important thing that I want you to get out of this class is for you to inquire, figure out what's meaningful to you and start to develop a philosophy of living. Like, what do you care about? What's your sense of ethics? What are your core moral passions in you that you want to be alive at every step of the way in life? When you're at the end of life, what do you want to have given to the world? What will that look like? Those are all questions about what's the philosophy of life. We have had millennia of efforts to teach this. This used to be the core of an education. Who are you, and what do you want to give to the world? And we've lost it. I also use the word soul a lot. I'm a scientist. I couldn't measure the soul. I don't know what it is, but it's intuitive. It's like there's something sacred in me that is what life is about for me here on Earth. And they should feel that in their youth and find it. And that's what I asked them to do. And then the rest is easier. Right. Once you figure out, like, I love serving young kids, then your job's going to come. You know, you'll know how to sort of volunteer. Things come more easily once you ask those big questions.

A

What is your definition of happiness?

B

Happiness is if you feel like you're doing the things in the world that you're supposed to do that give you a sense of purpose, give you the goosebumps as you're approaching the day. If you see it in other people and they're doing it with you, you tear up. Like, that's why I'm here. And within the scientific literature on happiness, we call that meaning. Right now, I think we're in an era of meaning that you've been pushing me on, Mel. Hey, put aside this pleasure and ease and stuff. How do we really handle the exhaustion and purposelessness of our times? And it really is finding meaning. And that's when you feel like I'm doing what I'm here on Earth to do.

A

I want to make sure, as you're listening, you're picking up on this. In what Dr. Keltner is teaching us, you have not attached career, job, and money to the thing that is your calling or your meaning.

B

Yeah, yeah. And you just gave me goosebumps. Thank you for saying that. Goosebumps are a source of awe and a recognition of what's important in an idea, a big idea that you just floated. Yeah. You know, we're. There is no doubt. You know, it's harder to pay bills for young people. They're looking at affordability issues, new kinds of salary structure. We know AI now is going to hurt younger jobs. Right. Which is not a surprise. So it's stressful, no doubt. But I think we're going to be in this era. And the upside to AI is it could enable this, which is to find your calling, your purpose, what you care about, and express it out there. And I think we're going to move out of this era of perfectionism that you may have seen it around you and man, it's tough and allow young people, if they want to be a struggling actress, that's a good thing. That's where their purpose is. If they want to be a carpenter like my dad was, that's a wonderful career. Right? We want to encourage all of the kinds of work and not just the perfectionistic type work and then to really broaden out and think about what's your service, what's your form of creativity and see if we can cultivate that.

A

Dr. Kellner, thank you for explaining it that way. I need to take a quick break to give our sponsors a chance to share a few words and I also wanna give you a chance to share this episode with someone in your life who really deserves the gift of Dr. Keltner's research and this perspective shift of being more purposeful in your day to day life. Stay with me. We'll be right back. When it comes to your health and wellness, trust matters. Whether you're working toward fitness goals, building a wellness routine or just stocking up on everyday essentials for your family, where you shop really matters. And that's why I want to tell you about our new sponsor, iHerb. It's your one stop shop for vitamins, supplements, sports nutrition, personal care and even grocery, baby and pet products. For nearly 30 years, Iherb has delivered wellness products sourced directly from trusted brands to more than 15 million customers around the world. And here's what sets them apart. There are no third party sellers on Iherb's website or app. So you can shop confidently knowing that for supplements and sports nutrition products, brands provide certificates of analysis and select products are independently verified through the eye tested lab program too. And if something doesn't meet your expectations, IHERB makes it right with easy returns and simple refunds. Visit iherb.commel and use code meltwenty for 20% off your order. That's iherb.commel with code MEL20. Did you know that 89% of dog parents consider their dog their best friend? Like even more so than a human. I'm on a business trip right now. I cannot wait to get home. Yes, I'm excited to see my husband, but really I want to see Homie and yolo. And if you're dog obsessed like I'm dog obsessed, you need to know about Ollie. They deliver fresh human grade food in five drool worthy flavors so your pup can live their best life. You could say Ollie feeds the obsession. Everything is tailored to your dog. The meals are perfectly portioned. You get a puptainer and a scoop for easy storing and serving. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs with gut friendly ingredients that support digestion, energy, skin health and better poops. Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com Mel, tell them all about your dog and use code Mel to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus it's risk free with their guarantee. That's O-L-L-I-E.com MEL and enter code MEL to get 70% off your first box. Ollie Feed the obsession you know as summer travel plans and pack schedules take over. Don't forget about your hair health. And our sponsor Nutrafol is designed to support whole body hair wellness, making it easy to keep in your daily routine no matter what season you're in. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Nutrafol's hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. Let your hair become one less thing taking up space in your head and see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit NutraFool.com and enter promo code MEL. That's Nutrafol.com spelled N U T R A F O L.com promo code MEL. Welcome back, it's your friend, Mel Robbins. Today you and I are Learning from Dan Dr. Keltner. We're hearing all about the science of awe. 40 years of research on meaning and purpose and how to start living more purposefully today. I love this conversation so much, Dr. Keltner. I wanna just stay right where we were. If you're feeling a lack of purpose and meaning right now, what's the first step you can take?

B

It begins with asking yourself questions like what really inspired me as a child? And for me it was like encountering dinosaurs when I was five. I was like, I love evolution and dinosaurs. What inspired you as a child? Who inspired you in your life? You know, and you think about those people and you know, Mel, what those questions get to is what's inside of you, what are your core strengths? And we know from this really interesting, inspiring science and practice of virtue that's age old is, you know, there's six or seven core strengths that we can be thinking about. Each of us is different and they speak to us in different ways. So it might be knowledge, right? You might love crossword puzzles and, you know, studying things and learning about music or birding or the like. It might be courage. You might just find great inspiration and sort of a sense of purpose in doing courageous things and getting out and taking chances. Kindness is just a universal, like tending to people volunteering who need help. There are a lot of people today who need, you know, who could use. You're 90 years old and you could use that drive to the supermarket. They're the justice people and they're around us, you know, and man, they will find their purpose if they get a chance to fight for what they think is fair. There's a kind of strength that's more transcendent, like meditation and spirituality and just finding the questions about divinity or whatever form it takes. And one of my favorites is the creativity types. They love humor and stand up comedy, and they're gonna do spoken word or write their short story or join the book club or whatever. And there, it's just like creating. And what I love about these ideas is this isn't about your career, how you make money. This is just what you're gonna enjoy on the weekend and what you should prioritize in your life to find a little bit more purpose during these times.

A

What I love about those core strengths that you just listed off, and you said, knowledge, courage, kindness, justice, transcendence, which to me felt like just seeking deeper connection and creativity as you were talking, Dr. Keltner. And I'm glad you said, this isn't like what you do for a job. I almost thought to myself, you know, if this is your core strength, it doesn't mean you're good. What it means is you come alive. You cannot help but feel like yourself when you are either doing something that's creative or you get lost in some sort of poem you're reading or you are arguing with people. Because fairness is just something that just. You just get. It's almost like this is so core to who you are that you are the only one that can block yourself from this.

B

Yeah.

A

Is that a fair thing to say?

B

Yeah. And you just gave me goosebumps because what you said is so important. You know, this isn't about your career. This isn't about what you do. This isn't about how you label yourself. This is where you come alive. This may not even be the thing you do most of the time, but it gives you so much meaning. Your wonderful description made me think about my own life personally. You know, I was raised by. My mom taught literature. My dad was a visual artist. And I was no good at the arts, you know, and I couldn't write fiction to save my life. And even though I wanted to. But I will tell you, Mel, like being in a museum, seeing plays, reading fiction, hearing fiction, I am most alive in the arts. Creativity. Right. And beauty. And yet it's not how I make my living. It's not what I'm necessarily great at. But, wow, do I come alive for reasons I can't describe to you. And just knowing that, it's like, if I want a sense of purpose, I go see a movie. You know, if I want a sense of purpose, I will go to a play. Right. And just take it in. It'll give me all this insight about life as art does. Because that's something core to me. That is what really matters.

A

You also, Dr. Keltner, talked about two questions. You were talking about, you know what, Whether thinking about childhood or any moment in your life where you inspired. And then the second question was, who are the people or the people in history that have inspired you? As you answer those questions for yourself and you think about your core values, what do you then do with those insights? Because it gives you data about what makes you come alive. But how do I then apply it?

B

Yep.

A

In my life right now.

B

Yeah. And, you know, this is merging a couple of really rich literatures, Mel. You know, the narrative psychology of, like, we are stories. We're almost like books. We Dacker is a novel in some sense. So they're these early inspirations and people who move me and those forms of inspiration point to, like, this is what I care about. And I remember when I was on a panel with the dalai Lama in 2003, he said, kindness is a basic state of human nature. And I was blown away. I was like, wow, that's so rich as an idea, as a scientist. And it's also rich as an idea how to live life. It's like. It's so basic. That's all we have to do. Practice kindness. His quote, if you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. That insight coming out of someone who inspires me taught me a lot. And then you start to take these insights through this inquiry, to use your word, and like, okay, I have a free weekend. What should I do? Well, maybe I'd like to volunteer Inside a prison, which I did. Maybe I should volunteer in the parks and help with tracking what bird species are. Maybe I should help volunteer in a school. So from the inquiry. And once you get a sense of, like, I care about justice, you know, well, this is the book I'll read. I'll read To Kill a Mockingbird, you know, and then I'll have this conversation with people. So they're just guides. They're good compasses to friendships and to volunteer work to what we want to pursue, what we want to enjoy as a film. So they're good ways to go about the life.

A

And I want to make sure, as you were listening to Dr. Keltner, you heard the genius of the instruction. He didn't say, quit your job and pursue something else. He didn't say, you need to have some 17 step morning routine. He said, once you ask yourself these questions, when have I been inspired? Who inspires me? What is my core value here? He's instructing us to insert something that feels like that this weekend into your life. And that's how you start to remind yourself of who you are. That's how you start to reconnect with the parts of yourself that you have forgotten or that have been buried under the to dos and the busyness and the headlines. It's by remembering what made you come alive and remembering what matters and then finding small ways where you are right now to do something. It's so important, and you make it sound so simple. Dr. Keltner, I'd love to dig into your incredible research around awe. What is awe? And why did you decide you were gonna study it and write a blockbuster bestseller about it?

B

We've been talking about brief moments of really important meaning and purpose. And awe is an emotion you feel when you encounter things that are most typically vast and you don't understand. You know, so you see a lightning storm, or you hear you're at the U2 concert, and it's incomprehensible how music could be so powerful. Or you are witnessing somebody who is giving away all their resources to a stranger, right? And you're awestruck. Vast and mysterious as an emotion. It moves into our body and we tear up and we get goosebumps and our heart feels warm, right? It changes our neurophysiology. And then awe really is. As Jane Goodall said, when you're amazed at things outside of yourself, you want to give to it, you want to promote it, you want to create community. It really brings out the better angels of our nature. And as I Got interested in awe. I was raised by, I was raised in a kind of a wild context of the late 60s and by an artist and a literature professor in Laurel Canyon. You know, crazy times, very awe inspiring times. And I was lucky enough to develop scientific tools to study it.

A

How do you study awe? Like what do you do?

B

You have people listen to music? We take people outside and they look at big trees. We have people think about someone who inspires them in a really life altering way. We've studied people in national parks, we've studied people, the Great Wall in China, we've had them look at big views. There are other scientists who've gone to mosh pits at concerts. So it's actually a pretty easy emotion to study. We've done research in art museums, you know, and you can get people to feel awe if they slow down and look at a painting in a really powerful way. And then you measure it. You ask people how you feel. You measure the brain, you measure the goosebumps. You measure activation of the vagus nerve. Turns out even though people think you couldn't study it, it's actually pretty tractable or easy to study in the lab.

A

Dr. Keltner, I am so happy that you're here. Thank you for being here with us. And I just hate to do this, but I gotta hit the pause button so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words. But while you're listening to our sponsors, don't go anywhere. Because a little bit later, Dr. Keltner is gonna teach you this one minute habit that based on 40 years of research, will reduce depression, anxiety, daily stress. It makes you feel more purposeful. It's free and you can practice it tonight. Trust me, you're gonna wanna know what this is. Don't go anywhere. We're gonna be right back. You know what makes life easier? One place that actually has everything. Groceries. Check. Snacks for the week. Yep. School supplies. Toiletries. That random thing your kid forgot to mention until 9pm all of it. One stop. That's Walmart. You can count on Walmart for prescriptions too. With the Walmart app managing medications for the whole family. Simple. Need to transfer a prescription. Done. Time for a refill. Just tap. You can even get your meds delivered right to your door. So you're not spending another afternoon in line when you got a million other things going on. Couldn't be easier. One less thing to remember. One less thing to worry about. Walmart for the win. Switch your prescriptions to Walmart. Pharmacy delivery not available for all Prescriptions, exclusions apply. As we all know, care feels really different when it's personal. That's why UnitedHealthcare is all about putting care at the heart of your health insurance. Behind the phones, screens, and services are real people who care about helping when it matters most. That human connection is what makes UnitedHealthcare different. They make benefits, costs, and care options easier to understand while helping you connect to doctors, clinics, and specialists in your community. Learn more@uhc.com care here on this podcast, we talk a lot about tools. Tools for solving things that are expected or maybe things that aren't. Here's a tool to keep your schedule together. Take five Oil change. The moment your oil light comes on, head to take five. They check everything, explain what you need, what you don't, and you're done in about 10 minutes. Don't let an oil change interrupt your schedule. Visit take5.com podcast and save up to 30%. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are getting to learn from Dr. And we're talking all about how to find your purpose and live a meaningful life based on 40 years of research. Okay, Dr. Keltner, I wanna stay right where we were. I'd love to have you walk me through, okay, what is happening in my brain and body when I have a moment of awe. And I'm thinking about this because I'm taking a bucket list trip three days from now going rafting through the Grand Canyon, something I've always wanted to do. This is like three years in the planning. And I know every time we come around a bend, I'm gonna be like,

B

you just did part of it.

A

And so what happens? I even feel awe. Like I'm that crazy person in our family, that around dusk, I'm like, shh. Can you hear the barred owl? Can you hear the barred owl? Cause they're now, you know, doing their who cooks for you?

B

Who cooks for you?

A

Like, they're calling right now to each other. And so what is happening in you in a moment of awe?

B

Yeah. What wonderful descriptions. So when you encounter things that are way beyond your frame of reference, like the river in the Grand Canyon or a symphony of birdsong that you hear, or sunset. Sunset. The colors and the changing colors in time.

A

Incredible.

B

Suddenly it's like, wow, this is different. How I ordinarily perceive reality. It's beyond my frame of reference, and I can't classify it. And then what happens is part of your brain, called the default mode network quiets down, it deactivates and the default mode network or DMN is where the ego and the self relevant processes take place. My checklists and my to do lists and my goals and ambitions, that quiets down. And that's very much akin to when people are out at nature, at the U2 concert or wherever, they feel like their ego is no longer hassling them. They feel like I'm free of my ego. So that part of your brain deactivates. Then these regions of your nervous system, the vagus nerve, this big bundle of nerves wandering through your chest, calms your heart rate, opens your chest, makes you feel connected to other people, that's activated. A little bit of evidence showing oxytocin is released. This kind of like we're all one being, you know, your immune system is functioning better. And then very importantly, you get quiet. Your mind opens and expands. You see how you, as Mel or Dak or our listener out there are part of larger things, right? And suddenly when you're feeling awe, you're like, wow, I'm part of everybody who's listening to this podcast, or I'm part of these people quietly meditating. I'm part of an ecosystem. I'm listening to bird call and birdsong and it sounds like human song and music. Wow, I'm part of this big thing, right? And then you have this sense of deep meaning and purpose and that's so central to our conversation. Like, you know, when I have awe out backpacking, which, you know, which I do every summer, it's just with my daughter Natalie and friends, and it's just so reliable. And it's like, you know, I am this small species and a member of a big species, but we're just part of this ecosystem. You know, I'm part of the trees and the rivers and the fish I see in the rivers and the changing light of the day. I'm just part of. This is life, right? I'm part of life. Darwin called it endless forms. Most beautiful is what life is. And that transcendent, right? That's when you're like, all these individual concerns I have, the stresses, the exhaustion I feel fade away and you find something to devote yourself to.

A

I think you just explained why I am an absolute sucker for a documentary about wildlife. I watch all the Earth series and I sit there, I'm like, oh my gosh, look at those penguins.

B

Yeah.

A

Oh, wow. Look at the magic of the seals swimming through the sea kelp. And you're right, you just feel connected to something outside of yourself and magical that has nothing to do with your to do list or your self criticism? What have you found in the research, Dr. Keltner, in terms of how making it a habit to purposefully have moments of daily awe, how does that improve your health?

B

Yeah, you know, Mel, as I was doing this work and big lab, like, lots of people working on this, we're heading into the mental health crises, the loneliness epidemic Vivek Murthy had called our attention to. And I faced a lot of skeptics, like, wait a minute. If depression's rising out of COVID you think awe is the answer? And we actually found, like, if you practice a minute of awe a day, you feel less depressed. And so what we've found makes me feel bullish. And when I'm in front of a thousand doctors and giving a talk, which I do routinely, to MDs and nurses and healthcare providers, other healthcare providers, I say, there's nothing better for your mind and body than a minute of awe a day. And what we know is a minute of awe a day reduces depression, reduces anxiety, reduces the daily stresses, makes you feel less exhausted and more energetic, makes you feel more connected, less lonely, more purposeful, is good for your heart, is good for your immune system, reduces inflammation in the body. That's a few minutes of all a day. You step outside and you look at the sunset and you pause and you watch the colors change and your body starts to feel, as Emerson said, like there's nothing nature cannot repair. So, yeah, it's a battle cry in some sense for me, which is that we have data showing money gets in the way of awe. You don't need any money to find this. What we need to do is just look around us, think about an opportunity for awe, and go get it.

A

Dr. Kellner, can you walk us through how you do one minute of awe? Because after you gave that long list, I want that, and I know the person who's listening wants that. So how do we do it?

B

After we started to document these health benefits of awe, we started to test it, like, can this benefit people in systematic ways? And we've got good evidence for that. And what I tell people is really simple, which is pause, put away your devices, open your mind, take a deep breath. And then, you know, Mel, in our research from around the world, we found these eight wonders, right, that really help us put awe into practice. So find it in nature, right? So go outside and look at the sky. I do this with my undergrads. They're like, oh, my God, look at the clouds. You know, so take a minute to look at the sky. Moral beauty. Think of somebody who inspires you, right? And just feel that in your body. Think about collective movement. Is that what you're doing in your yoga studio or at the Red Sox game or at a concert? Think about a visual opportunity for us. Some people love paintings or visual patterns. Think about music. Music's one of my favorite. You know, Mel, we forget how powerful it is, how much it can give to us. So find a piece of music that gives you some tears and just listen to it for a minute. And then a couple of the other wonders are, you know, think about ideas you care about. And really provocatively is the life cycle. Just think about this cycle of life. We only have a little time here on earth, right? It's just a fundamental truth. The people we love have this sense of cycle and just reflect on what that means to you.

A

So I want you to help me and the person who's listening to experience awe right now. And my team has this extraordinary bouquet of flowers, and it has been sitting next to me this entire time, kind of under the table. And so I'm gonna grab it and put it on the table in front of me, and then I'm gonna have you walk me and the person who's with us through an experience of how we can feel awe.

B

Wonderful. Oh, those are beautiful.

A

These are stunners.

B

Yeah.

A

To my right is a gorgeous bouquet of flowers in this cool glass jar. And imagine jewel tones like it's an explosion of spring. And if you love flowers like I do, we have a tree peony and an anemone, and garden roses and snapdragons and lianthus and Queen Anne's lace and some greens, and it's like a very English garden style bouquet.

B

They're incredible. You ready?

A

Yes.

B

You gonna be a subject in an experiment?

A

Yes. Let's do it.

B

All right. For the listeners out there, I'd really encourage you to either, at this moment, orient to the sky, or if you're outside, orient to some trees. Or when you have a chance to pick a place in nature that really speaks to you. The important point is either take a moment to just take in some of the sensory experiences of nature, whatever it may be. Could be flowers, it could be trees around you, a forest, the sound of rain, et cetera. There's all research on this. If you are inside an office where there's no nature, pause for a moment and think of a place in nature that really means a lot to you. Right. It could be a campsite that your family goes to, or A place you like to backpack or a garden that you may be growing things in. Most of us have that thing, so we're going to do that. And Mel, what I'm going to have you do is I'm going to have you kind of slow down and focus on this bouquet and we're going to walk through the senses and then I'm going to ask you some awe related questions. So what I'd like you to do, and this is good for any awe practice, is just to let your gaze move through the flowers, zero in on the really fine details of flowers and then move out and look at the broader patterns of the flowers. Go from small to vast and let your powerful eyes see all the miracles of the flowers patterns. I want you to let your gaze move around the bouquet and just look at the different colors and the hues of the different colors. What comes to mind when you look at the shapes of the flowers? Smallness and the vastness and then the colors. Where does your mind go?

A

Well, the first thing is just how shocking it is that something so intricate and beautiful could come from what was once either a tiny bulb or a seed. And the diversity of the shapes, like the flat open petals of the anemone versus the layers and layers and layers and layers of petals in these garden roses. And how different that is from the teeny tiny little blue. I don't know if those are cornflowers or what they are. And then the snapdragon. The snapdragon are like these puffs of popcorn up a stem. And then you look at the Queen Anne's lace and it's so crazy fine that you would almost miss the fact that, that it looks like a piece of lace, but it's made up of these tiny little flat things that are like the size of a dime that each have another 25 tiny little flowers on em.

B

Incredible.

A

And so when you see em in a field, they're like 4 or 5ft tall and that's like a white blanket. But up close you realize how intricate and delicate it looks.

B

You ready for the next step? That was awesome. I think we have 12 million receptors in the nose that take in fragrances and tell us what things are. We navigate the world through our sense of smell. So if you can just move over and smell a few of the flowers, whatever ones you like. And Mel, I want you to engage in a stream of consciousness. Like where does your mind go? Okay, how do you remember when you smell things? What comes to mind?

A

Okay, so I just smelled a rose and it just Reminds me of weddings. Like, there's something about the rose smell that just is. Wedding, wedding, wedding. Okay, that peony does not have a smell. Let's go over to this one. Lianthus doesn't have much of a smell, but it reminds me of cut grass.

B

Mm, that's a nice smell.

A

Yes, that's a cut grass for me, is a big one. Okay.

B

What's it make you think of?

A

My dad. Cause he was always out mowing the lawn. Oh, this one's really good. This rose is a different variety. It reminds me of my grandmother.

B

And what about your grandmother?

A

Like, just hugs. Smells. Warm, familiar smells. Like summer, too. Beautiful.

B

Yeah. Scent is awesome. Just that it can transport us in time like that. All right, close your eyes. Final awe prompt in our awe experiment here on the Mel Robbins Show. You know, we have all these incredible receptors in our hands that help us understand what things are through touch. Just sort of move your hand over the flowers and just touch. And what do they remind you of? What's the touch feel like to you?

A

There's lots of different textures. It feels. Oh, my God. It reminds me of being a kid. I grew up in western Michigan and tiny town, and I spent so much time laying in my front yard staring up at the sky, and it reminds me of just touching grass as a kid.

B

All right, so it's just been a couple of minutes. And what we've done are three different sensory accesses, if you will, to awe, which is, you know, scent and vision and then tactile contact. Nature is one of the most powerful sources of awe around the world, no matter where you are. Just trees and rivers and sounds and birdsong and skies and flowers and the natural world, mountains, et cetera. And I think that the key and what we do in all of our research is like, pause, put things away, calm down, and then take in this whole miracle in some sense of the small intricacy of the design, the vastness, and then where does your mind go as you appreciate it? So as you look at the bouquet now, what comes to mind?

A

The anemones are insane. There's like these teeny, tiny little, like. I don't know what the word's called, of the little petally things around the center that the bees come to, and they're like purpley blue. And I'm focusing on that because, like, the actual crazy amount of detail, the variegation on the leaves, the difference of all the petals, it's right in front of you. And even. Forget nature. If you had a minute when you were Going through the grocery store, and you stopped for a second to just be present with a bouquet and notice all the difference. You could tap into this inside. And it also, on a deeper level, just makes me think about my parents, because my parents are massive gardeners, and my love of gardening comes from them. And I think about my husband Chris, who, four years ago, built me some raised flower beds, boxes, for Mother's Day, because those damn voles kept eating all my tulip bulbs. So now I go out in the garden every night and I cut flowers and I inspect what's coming up, and there's so much around you that you're missing that you could slow down and drop into everywhere.

B

Yeah. And that's the lesson of all right, is there are these incredible systems that we're not aware of. And once you listen to a piece of music, and then you take the time just to think about where it came from and what it means, suddenly it becomes richer for me, because I've studied so much emotional behavior and expression in the face and the voice. If I just slow down and look at all the ways in which people are cooperating with each other on a daily basis on a street corner, at a daycare center, you know, on a university campus, it just almost makes me cry. And it's the same thing. You're seeing the miracle that is always there. And that's what it all is. And it's. In some sense, it's. And I love your parents and your grandmother's recollection because it reveals what we've been talking about, which is. It's part of your bigger story of life.

A

I'm gonna move that down. Otherwise I'm gonna be so distracted by the flowers, I'm not gonna be able to ask you any additional questions. Dr. Keltner, what is an awe walk?

B

Humans are a walking species. We walk on our two legs, our two feet. Chimpanzees don't. We have meandered to all the continents on the Earth. We are itinerant species. It's just part of what we do. And walking is great. There are all these great traditions of walking. There are often, in spiritual traditions, forms of pilgrimages where you walk. And most people who are probably listening to this have a walking tradition. And that's good news. It's very good for your body and your mind. And so what we decided to do, Mel, and this was with Virginia Sturm, is we added a little awe to your regular walk, and it was exactly like what you did with the flowers. We asked people, take a Walk once a week and in our control condition, go out and enjoy your walk in our awe walk condition. Look around to the small and the vast. The little bark on the tree and the full bark patterns on the tree. The cloud, the patterns of clouds, the raindrop, the full storm. Go from vast to small. Go to places that are filled with childlike wonder, which we've been talking about, like, whoa, the swing sets my daughters used to swing on, et cetera. And just do that. You can do that anywhere. Go on your walk, slow it down. Just look around you and look for small things, you know, vast things. And then go to places where you might feel a little curiosity and wonder. And what we found is in that study, it made elderly people who are 75 years old or older feel less pain in their bodies. And more recently, we have a paper under review showing greater brain health six years later, which is amazing. And what's interesting, Mel, I love how your mind went on a journey with the flowers, which you were like, suddenly you got a bigger picture of your relationship to flowers. My husband Chris, in the flower beds and my clipping them each night, and the foals and my grandmother and my parents, suddenly you had a map on where to go. And that's what the all walk did as well. Once you start doing it, you start practicing all walks wherever you go. I do all walks in the airport. I'll be like, I'm really tense. I have flight anxiety. Let's look at the moments of goodness here. And it can work.

A

I have a little twist on this. Cause every time I walk, I'm doing an awok. Because the thing I'm purposeful about is I play a game to see if I can just see a naturally occurring heart shape in the vast clouds or in a oil stain in the concrete or a leaf. And then when I see it. Cause I now always see them everywhere.

B

That's awesome.

A

I just take a moment and really kind of savor that. That was put there for me.

B

Oh, that's great.

A

And it's killer. And so now our family group chat is full of heart shaped random objects that people see on walks. But it's a way that I've applied your research and added a little twist to it.

B

That's a wonderful twist.

A

You know, Dr. Keltner, I see this quote floating around that the amount of good in your life depends on your ability to see it.

B

Yeah, I love Thich Nhat Hanh, this Buddhist practitioner who said, so much of our life is oriented towards fear. And of course, you know, there's a lot to be fearful of. You know, there's climate crises and economic issues and war and of course. But that's part of the story. That is always part of the story. And if you just pause and open your mind, you have the chance to see the miracles of life. In his words of, you can smell the flowers, you can hear, you know, young children laughing. You can see the light in somebody's eyes just a little instant. So that is always true. And for skeptics out there, this is a hard time. But time and time again, people who are facing the hardest times, I learned this from prisoners inside prison. You talk to veterans like the toughest times in combat. They return to these fundamental truths that there's also beauty and there's also awe. And I think we just have to take the time, like this podcast and conversation with you, Mel, like, let's remind ourselves of these beauties because they are powerful and they're there to guide us.

A

Dr. Keltner, if you had to distill everything that you shared with us today to the most important thing for the person listening to do as soon as the episode is finished, what do you think that is?

B

I hope your audience appreciates. I was genetically wired to feel a lot of anxiety. Panic is everywhere in my mom's side of the family. Losing my brother, really deep grief. And I had to find my way through answering the question you asked. And for me, Eleanor Roosevelt, every night when she went to bed, she had this prayer where she said, I want to see the simple beauties all around me and be aware of the hidden loveliness of people that they ordinarily hide. And for me, those two words, simple beauties. And I believe that. I believe that anywhere there are beauties in the people around you, in the natural world, in the music you hear and the things that bring us all, you know, the eight wonders that we've talked about. And so to me, this is one of the Our great strengths as a species is to be able to notice the beauty in the glass of water or a conversation or the eyes of somebody or memories of the past. Right? And we always have that capacity, no matter where we are. Doesn't cost a dime. You don't have to move a step. And the simple beauties are there to access. And I think that's why Eleanor Roosevelt said it. And it's meant a lot to me.

A

Well, Dr. Keltner, you mean a lot to me, and I know you mean a lot to the person who's listening. And your research and your work is A treasure for all of us. So thank you for what you do. Thank you for hopping on a plane even though you're anxious about flying and flying across country. I've got my tricks to share all of this research and wisdom with us, and I am forever a fan and grateful.

B

Thank you, Mel. I've had many goosebumps during our conversation for good reason. It's been wonderful.

A

Me too. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that will not only help you find awe and beauty in your day to day life. I truly believe that if you apply everything that Dr. Keltner taught you today, it will help you find your calling and a deeper sense of meaning in this one incredibly amazing life that you get to live. Alrighty. In case nobody else tells you today, as your friend, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And creating a life that has a deeper sense of meaning and being more purposeful is clearly the secret to doing that. So go do it. Alrighty. I'll see you in the very next episode. I'll walk in you in the moment you hit play. What are they called? Stanum. What are those things called that the bees land on? Do you know what they're called?

B

Em.

A

And this is called Lianthus lithianis. What's it called? Something like that. I mean, look at this bad boy. This is almost like giving birth. It's kind of erotic. I don't know why. It's kind of. We don't need to. We don't need to feel. Finger the flowers. I'm forgetting that I'm supposed to ask you a question because I'm hanging on every word. And so I forget because I'm just so busy listening and taking it all in, and I'm like, oh, I gotta ask you another question.

B

You caught me off guard, Mel.

A

That's okay. You're absolutely destroying it. And besides, the timing's perfect. Right, Jasmine? With the helicopter going by? See how that works? I'm in awe. That's it. Great job, everybody. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional Got it. Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

B

SiriusXM podcasts.

A

This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the all in one finance app where you can bank, borrow and invest all in one place. Let's talk bank accounts for a second. The average bank Savings rate is 0.39% in interest. You're earning pennies on your savings, but it doesn't have to be that way. But with SoFi's high yield checking and savings, the money barely making moves sitting in your savings account can earn over eight times the national average savings rate with eligible direct deposit, no account or overdraft fees. We love transparency. You can get your PayCheck up to two days early, plus get up to a $300 welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. Sign up for Sofi Checking and savings@sofi.com Mel Sofi checking and savings is offered through Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms apply those precious magical memories you'll always

B

cherish the Disney Cruise Line we cherish the too.

A

Our ships are designed to help you discover those moments. Whether it's seeing the wonder in your child's eyes, feeling that quiet spark of joy as they reach for your hand,

B

or stumbling across that inside joke that's

A

still funny years later. Make the memories that never leave you.

B

Disney Cruise Line where magic meets the sea.