Mel Robbins

Hey, it's your friend Mel. And welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I want to start our conversation today a little differently because right now I am holding a spreadsheet of dream guests. You can hear it, it's multiple pages long from July of 2023. And I'm talking way back in the early days of this show. And at the very top of Mel Robbins list of dream guests, Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Dr. Patrick is a biomedical scientist who's known for her deep research on micronutrients, exercise, and longevity. But here's what I love about her. She has this genius ability to make the science somehow so understandable and simple to apply to your life. I'm not kidding. This is why she was the number one expert that I wanted on the show. Now, look, it may have taken a few years to get her here, but she finally flew across country and came to our Boston studios. And I had very, very high expectations. But let me tell you, Dr. Patrick just blew us all away. This is one of my favorite episodes that we have ever recorded. And the reason why I can say that is because Dr. Patrick took a topic that I kind of thought I knew a lot about and flipped it on its head. Everything she shared is relevant and doable for you and every single person in your life. And today, she is going to boil down extensive research into five core lifestyle changes that she also will make super easy to implement. And that's a tall order. And she delivers. In fact, one of them is you can do in just one minute. And I will do it live while we tape the episode. What Dr. Patrick is here to teach you will add years to your life. It is easy to do, and it gives you exponential gains in your health. It puts you in a better mood. You're gonna love this. I cannot wait for you to hear and learn from the extraordinary Dr. Rhonda Patrick.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Mazda has been named Consumer Reports safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features, so you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead and ready before problems ever start. Mazda. More of what matters most to you. Go to Mazda USA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product.

Mel Robbins

The Mel Robbins Podcast is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance, our exclusive insurance partner. You know, when someone finishes your sentence because they already understood what you needed, that's what working with Amica feels like. They don't guess. They don't assume. They take the time to understand what you're trying to protect and why it matters. Most companies talk, talk, talk about putting customers first. Amica really does it. You feel it in the way they listen, the way they follow through, the way they treat you. As a customer owned company, Amica puts your needs first. Visit amica.com and get a quote today. Hey it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am thrilled that you're here. It's such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you and if you're new here or or someone sent you this particular episode, I just wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Today you will learn the science of living a longer and healthier life. Today's guest is someone I've wanted to sit down with for such a long time because if you've been doing all the healthy things and you still feel off, Dr. Rhonda Patrick will explain why and exactly what to change. Dr. Patrick is a PhD trained biomedical scientist who has spent her entire career studying nutrition, aging and disease prevention with research experience spanning mitochondrial metabolism, cancer biology and neurodegeneration. She completed her PhD in Biomedical Science at the University of Tennessee Health Science center and her graduate research was conducted at St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. Dr. Patrick's work has been published in major scientific journals and she's also the founder and host of the top podcast and online platform foundmyfitness, where she's known for taking peer reviewed science and translating it into practical guidance with total transparency about what we know, what we don't know, and what's just the Internet hype of the moment. So please help me welcome Dr. Rhonda Patrick to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I'm so excited you're here, so excited to be here Mel.

Mel Robbins

Thank you. I know how busy you are. I really appreciate you hopping on a plane and coming and spending time with us. Here's where I want to start. Dr. Patrick, if the person who's listening is overwhelmed like I'm overwhelmed by all the advice about health and they follow your research back approach that you're about to teach us today what might change about their life or their health outcomes,

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I think for the person listening it's really important to understand that they don't have to do 50 different health hacks to improve the way they feel and ultimately the way they age. The way I like to look at health is what are the few behaviors that we can adopt that are gonna affect many different underlying biological processes in our body that will affect These things that we care about, that's gonna improve our mood, reduce inflammation, improve metabolism, ultimately, you know, improve cardiovascular health, brain health, and just the way you age. And I think that if we sort of zoom out and take that approach, we, we realize there's just a few core behaviors that we should be doing that are really not that difficult to do and that are ultimately going to make us feel better and age better. And so what are those behaviors? And I'm sort of gonna speak in a sort of just 10,000ft up, you know, like big zoom out sort of picture because I think, again, they're very easy for people to do. First top of the list, move every day. And when I say move every day, we wanna make sure we're getting some vigorous exercise. We're gonna talk about what that means and we're gonna challenge our muscles. Very, very important, because your body is very resilient. And if you can put a good type of stress on it, which exercise is, it's going to adapt. And when stress is thrown at you later in life or in the day or in the minute, whatever your body's already dealt with stress, it's adapted. And so when that stress comes, you're going to be stronger and you're going to be able to deal with it. Mental stress as well, by the way, challenging your muscles, doing exercise, vigorous exercise, this is challenging many systems, your lungs, your heart, your brain as well, because it's hard to do hard things. And so again, you want to be resilient and that's what it's doing. Number two, make sure you're just eating a nutritious diet that is giving you the proper nutrients that you need. And we'll talk about that. Not that hard to do. Number three, make sure you're focusing on good sleep. You have to be able to repair, recover, rejuvenate, and that's what sleep is.

Mel Robbins

Could you just tell the person who's listening, based on your expertise, why they should trust these recommendations and really just focus on this?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yeah, I mean, because there's a lot of research that has been done by amazing scientists all over the world for decades, looking at what we can do in our diet and lifestyle to improve things like mood and metabolism and inflammation and the way we age. And so we have the evidence here, we can see what type of robust gains we're gonna get. So I just think the reality is, is that we have science, and science has done amazing things for advancing human life expectancy and also helping treat and prevent disease. And so if you look at the data. It's there. You just have to look at it. And I think that's kind of my role. I look at this data and then I help explain it to people. So it really is that easy. It really, really is. And we're going to talk about what kind of gains that you can expect. It's kind of mind blowing, to be honest.

Mel Robbins

Well, I'm ready to have my mind blown and my life simplified and the gains made easy. So let's jump into the first CA category, which is moving every day. And, you know, I think we've all heard this obsession around 10,000 steps that we should be getting every single day. Is that a useful goal? What does the research say, Dr. Patrick?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So I think that we need to replace 10,000 steps a day with 10 breathless minutes a day.

Mel Robbins

Breathless.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Breathless. And what I mean by that is 10 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise, which means you're breathless. I don't want to throw walking out because walking is better than sitting. Right. So what are you comparing it to? Okay, walking is better than being sedentary, not moving. But, you know, this 10,000 steps a day originated back in the 1960s from Japan. There was a Japanese group that was trying to sell pedometers, and that's where it came from. It didn't come from science, didn't come from medical research. It came from a Japanese company wanting to sell a pedometer. And it was very catchy. Now, since the 1960s, of course, there's been a lot of research on walking and moving and not being sedentary. So there are health benefits. But let's talk about why I wanna replace 10,000 steps with 10 breathless minutes. 10 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise. And why I say breathless is because it depends on where you're coming from. If you're already exercising and very fit, breathless for you might be sprinting, it might be running. If you're someone that doesn't really exercise a lot, maybe you only walk, then breathless for you might just be walking uphill, you know, going up the stairs. So it all depends on our starting point. And that's why I like to say breathless instead of heart rate or, you know, any other definition. Because I think we can all relate to if I am at the point where I can only say a few words and then I have to take a breath and then a few words and then I have to take, you know, you can't talk, you certainly can't sing. Breathless would be that where you're just a couple of words in and then you have to take a breath because you're really working hard. Why is that important? And why do I want to replace the 10,000 steps a day? There has been overwhelming research over the years, but even as of most recently, within the last few months, a very brand new study came out. Now research is done very differently than it was 20 years ago when we were relying on people's memory and questionnaires. How, how frequent do you exercise? And they have to think back and remember. Now we can actually measure it. We have these accelerometers on people's wrists where they can measure movement and how fast they're going. And so there was this huge study that was published showing that people that are moving more vigorously, it's kind of exponential in terms of health benefits versus moderately moving. So that would be where you're not breathless, but you're not able to sing. So that's kind of like you can kind of talk a little bit, but you're still breathy while you're doing it versus light activity, which is kind of like just walking around the house maybe. So we know that for every one minute of vigorous exercise, you have to do four minutes of moderate intensity. That would be brisk walking, for example, to get the same drop in all cause mortality, dying from cancer, dying from respiratory diseases, dying from cardiovascular disease. Right. All non accidental causes. Four minutes. If you're gonna do light exercise, for every one minute of vigorous, you have to do about 53 minutes of light walking, gentle walking around.

Mel Robbins

Wait, hold on a second. I wanna make sure I understand this because first of all, I love the idea of replacing the 10,000 steps because that might take me an hour and a half. And I don't really have that kind of time to walk five miles. Right. Because it feels like this goal that's very hard to achieve if you're somebody that's working and taking care of people. And you've got a very busy life, which most people do. So when you say, Dr. Patrick. Okay, we really want to look at the research and I want to replace this idea of 10,000 steps with 10 minutes of breathless exercise, which to me, I would love to have you unpack breathless. Just so that as we're trying to absorb this information, we understand what you mean by that. And I've heard you talk about the talk test. What does that mean?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Right? Yeah. So the talk test is really that test of, okay, I'm talking to you right now. Right? I'm talking to you. And I'm not breathless, I'm not breathing heavy. Right. It's easy. I could even sing if I wanted to. Right. So the talk test is you can't sing, but when you're talking, you're a little bit breathy. That is, you know, talk. That is moderate intensity exercise. The talk test means if you can talk a little bit, but you're breathy, that's moderate intensity. That would be like briskly walking. If you are doing vigorous intensity exercise, the breathless type of exercise. Okay, then this is a little bit more like jogging, running. This is where you are. Okay, Mel. So yeah, this is a vigorous intensity because you have to take breaths, quite a few breaths in between words. That would be vigorous intensity exercise. So that's the breathless type of exercise I'm talking about.

Mel Robbins

Got it. Okay, so I'll give an example. So there's a walking loop by my house. And I would say for three quarters of it, it's four miles long. Love to walk it with my girlfriends. Shout out to my Wednesday walking group. Three quarters of it. I'm chatting up a storm. We are catching up. We're sharing details about our family. Dogs are running wild. There is a hill where the entire hill. Everybody's silent because nobody can talk. Cause we're going to up. I'll catch up with you. And that's the vigorous part.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

That is exactly the vigorous type of exercise I'm talking about. That's the breathless moment. The breathless minute or two minutes or three minutes or four, however long it takes you to get up that hill.

Mel Robbins

Okay, yes. Okay. Now I just wanna make sure I'm tracking because that's the breathless part. But you also talked about moderate. And so would moderate be like, this is kind of a long, hard walk, but I'm still able to talk to you. And I feel myself sweating and I'm definitely exerting myself, but I can still carry on a conversation.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

That's correct. That would be moderate. Where you can still carry a conversation, but you're kind of like this, you know, you're just like. Like if you were on the phone, you weren't with someone, or if you were recording it and like the person listening was listening to it.

Mel Robbins

Yeah.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

They could tell that you were walking.

Mel Robbins

Right.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Like right now it's obvious we're not walking. Right. That would be the moderate intensity.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And the vigorous is so much more powerful. So I said for every one minute, for all cause mortality reduction, you have to do 53 minutes of light just walking around.

Mel Robbins

Well, that's the piece I wanted to unpack. So you're basically saying the one minute that I Am walking up that hill and I can't actually really talk. Cause I'm exerting effort. I'm getting a 53 minute gain in that one minute against the other 53 minutes. I'm walking the rest of the loop.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

No, the other 53 minutes you're walking the loop would be moderate. That's moderate.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

If you were just walking around your house.

Mel Robbins

Oh, I see.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

That would be more light.

Mel Robbins

Okay, so this is the thing to understand that you could clock 10,000 steps a day. It might take you an hour and a half to do it. You could be walking around your house. You could be getting out of the car and walking into the grocery store. You could be walking around the office. You are saying one minute walking up a hill is the equivalent to 53 minutes of just kind of walking around.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

That's correct.

Mel Robbins

That's incredible.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

That's incred. It's incredible. And it gets. Listen, there's more mel. Okay, we're just talking about all cause mortality. Okay, let's talk about cardiovascular related mortality. I mean, this is the number one cause of death in the United States and many developed countries. For every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, you have to do about eight minutes of the moderate intensity. And you have to do an hour and a half of the light type of just walking around the house.

Mel Robbins

All right, so break that down again. So you basically just said walking up the hill breathless. One minute is the equivalent of eight minutes of the moderate. So you're still cooking, you're still exercising, but you're getting.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

You're still with your walking group. Yeah, you're still with your walking group,

Mel Robbins

but you're catching your breath.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

You have to do eight times more than you do if you're walking up the hill.

Mel Robbins

Whoa.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And if you are just walking around the office, walking around the house, doing some chores, you have to do an hour and a half for every one minute of that walking up the hill.

Mel Robbins

You know what's so cool about this? And also I slightly hate you a little bit. Dr. Patrick. Is one of my big excuses for not exercising is I don't have time.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Exactly. You're basically saying you do.

Mel Robbins

Yes.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yes. You.

Mel Robbins

Yes.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And not only do you have time, it has to be something that you go, oh my gosh, I have to do this. I have to do this and I can do this. Right. You know, there's other outcomes too. Cancer is another one. And this one's really mind blowing. For every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, you have to do two and a half hours of that Light type of exercise, walking around the office, walking around, you know, your house. So what does that take for cancer mortality reduction? Dying from cancer, dying from all types of cancer.

Mel Robbins

So there is also what you're saying, Dr. Patrick, if I'm listening closely, is this isn't just the gains that you're making an hour or one minute. This isn't just the gains that you get by doing one minute of breathless walking up that hill versus the 53 of strolling around the house. It's also that there's something powerful about that one minute of walking up the hill and what it does to your immune system, I suspect, or to other aspects of your physiology and biology that have a meaningful impact long term over things like your ability to fight cancer, your longevity, your longer range health outcomes.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

That's exactly true. So what I'm trying to get at is intensity matters. Your body responds more robustly and adapts more robustly to the more intense exercise, the adaptations to your heart, your cardiovascular system, your lungs, your immune system, your brain, everything. The bigger the stress you're putting on it, which happens when you're doing a more intense type of exercise. Exercise, the better the adaptations are. And so when life happens and you're aging, it's all a stress, aging itself. Every day we're being stressed. We can't see it when we look in the mirror, but it's happening at the cellular level. Your body has adapted to that big burst of stress that it is able to handle all the little types of stress that are happening every day so much more robustly. And so that's the point here, is that why not just do the more intense exercise and we can talk about, well, I've never done that. How do we get there? And there are definitely ways to do that are very easy. But the point is you have to understand the powerfulness of it. It's like mind blowing. I don't know why more people aren't talking about it. It's so mind blowing. I just think it's one of the most important things to talk about right now. In health. In health, for sure.

Mel Robbins

Well, what's a really incredible paradigm shift is if you take the example of how 10,000 steps a day got created by a company marketing a pedometer in Japan in 1960, and we all just were like, okay, 10,000 steps a day. That sounds like a good marker. I'm sitting here thinking, given that this research has been around for a while, and we know, or at least you know, as a researcher and a scientist, that this has the biggest positive impact on multiple health outcomes for you long term. In terms of the breathless exercise, I started to think as you were talking, I wonder why. Why do I think I need an hour? Why do I think I need a half an hour? Why do I think it needs to take that long? And I wonder if it's because, especially as women, we've been socialized to go to an aerobics class that lasts an hour or to a certain class, and there are certain exercises that it's nice to have a long yoga class. But when you're really thinking about, I've got a little bit of time and I want the maximum positive impact in terms of my health, this breathless exercise is a complete shift.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It's a game changer for people that don't have a lot of time, that want to get health benefits, that feel overwhelmed when they have to think about getting a gym membership, getting in their car, driving to the gym, working out for an hour. It seems like a lot. And they just say, I can't do it. And so then they miss out. And yes, there's of course, benefits doing that. I mean, so in these studies that I'm talking about where people are wearing accelerometers, there are also many other studies that are very tangential where they're measuring people doing these types of what are called exercise snacks. So when I'm talking about one breathless minute, perhaps two breathless minutes, maybe three, this is something called an exercise snack. I've talked about it before, but it's essentially like you can either have it structured where you're getting up and you're doing a minute of body weight squats, or you're doing some jumping jacks or high knees or burpees or whatever. Fill in the blank you want to do to get your heart rate up and to be able to be in that zone where you can't really talk but a few words, right? Or it could be taking advantage of everyday life. I work on the fourth floor of an office building. I am not going to take the elevator. I'm going to walk up the stairs. I'm not only going to walk up the stairs, I'm going to walk fast up the stairs. Or I work a few blocks from my house. I'm not going to drive there. I'm going to briskly walk or perhaps even jog or bike, you know, so you're basically taking advantage of everyday life. I have a grandkid or I have a child. I'm going to play tag with them for a couple of minutes. I have a new puppy, I'm going to run around with my puppy. These moments count, they add up, they're cumulative. And we have the research to show that this is called vigorous intermittent lifestyle activity, vilpa for short. It's these people that are taking advantage of everyday life and to really get that vigorous minute or two or three in. Multiple studies have shown that if you do this, you actually get the same type of benefits as people that exercise. They've directly compared. When I say people that exercise, I mean people that are identifying as going to the gym, taking some block of time out to go and get the heart rate up. So very different types of ways to get your heart rate up. Right. One is just taking advantage of everyday life and just going for I'm playing tag with my grandkids. Or one is taking time to go to the gym. What do we see? We see that people that do three minutes of it. The three minutes of this breathless. So it could be walking uphill for three minutes. It could be playing with your tag with your grandkids for three minutes.

Mel Robbins

Right?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Three minutes, three times a day. So we're at nine minutes a day. This is where I get the 10 from. We're at nine minutes a day. Those individuals have a 40% reduction in cancer related mortality for 40% reduction in all cause mortality and a 50% reduction in cardiovascular related mortality. This is even in people that are not identifying as going to the gym and exercising. If you were to ask them, do you exercise? They would say no, because they don't count those moments. They don't count when they're playing tag with their kids or grandkids. They don't count when they're, you know, going fast up the stairs to get to work. But it does count exercise and the way our body adapts to this exercise. It doesn't matter if you go to the gym or not. Right. It just matters that you're doing it. And so I think again, this is so. It's like, take a breath of relief because. And when I talk to people about, it's like, oh, thank God, some people don't like going to the gym. I love it, I love it. But not everyone does. Some people literally don't have time. They don't have time. But do you have time to do three minutes after breakfast, three minutes after lunch, three minutes after dinner? Yes, you have that time. You just have to take it and do it. And it's fast. It goes by very fast. I also have, for the exercise, snacks, I have a free guide out there, how to train guide according to the experts, and essentially talks about the different ways to do exercise snacks, what exercise snacks you can do, how to do them, and also a variety of other training modalities out there that can help improve your brain health, your mood, and also the way you age. It's howtotrainguide.com if people are interested in picking that up.

Mel Robbins

Awesome. And we will link to that in all the show notes with all the resources related to this conversation. You know, Dr. Patrick, couple things. First of all, I really like the name exercise snack versus the vigorous intermittent lifestyle. Whatever the last word was exercise snack sounds like I could do it. And I want to make sure, as you're listening or you're watching right now, that you really got the very simple instructions from Dr. Patrick based on the research, that it's just three minutes, three times a day of this vigorous kind of breathless activity. And in fact, you know what I'm realizing? My husband Chris, will often, like, first thing in the morning, he drops and does like, 11 or 20 pushups or whatever it is he's doing it. And I'll see him do it in the kitchen midday. And I never really kind of understood why. I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting and sexy, but I don't feel like doing that right now. But I didn't feel like it counted. I live in the old world where in my mind, it doesn't count as exercise unless I'm in the exercise clothes and I am doing something for at least a half an hour and that it is a form of exercise that I tend to not like. And what you're saying is. No, no, no, no. Three minutes, three times a day, whether you're doing squats or kind of jogging up a flight of stairs, or you are going up a hill or you're playing tag with your grandkids, anything that gets you in that state. This counts and has massive impacts on all kinds of health outcomes.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yeah, absolutely.

Mel Robbins

For how long do I have to do this? Like, for the rest of my life is what you're gonna say. But, you know, like, when do I feel better?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

10 minutes a day? So, look, you will feel better after. You're gonna feel better because you're gonna get increased blood flow to your brain.

Mel Robbins

So how does forcing yourself to do something that's hard physically challenging your muscles? Doing breathless exercise vigorously, even for short bursts of time? How exactly in the brain and body, does making yourself do something hard help you manage the challenges of life? You know what I mean? Like, I've heard people talk about the. Is it the anterior single torp? I can't even say that.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yeah, the anterior cingular cortex.

Mel Robbins

Yes. I don't know if that's kind of what you're referring to in terms of the researcher, but if you could, Dr. Patrick, just explain. When you challenge your muscles, it boosts your ability to handle the challenges of life. And the more you force yourself to do hard physical things, the easier your life starts to feel.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

There's a lot of things that happen. One of them is activating that part of the brain as well, which seems to also play a role in protecting against neurodegenerative disease. So we have an endogenous. That just means in our body, opioid system. Okay. Opioids. We're usually thinking of, you know, maybe exogenous ones that people take to help with pain relief. Right. Like morphine, for example. We make our own opioids. Endorphins. Right. Endorphins are something that we make. Those are the feel good opioids that we make in our brain. They make us feel good. You do make that with exercise, but you also make a type of opioid that makes you feel uncomfortable. It's called dynorphin. It's responsible for that uncomfortable feeling. That feeling that's like, ugh, I wanna stop. I can't do this. It's hard, right? Dynorphin is that uncomfortable neurochemical that's being produced. And. And what that does is when your brain is making that and you don't give up, you keep pushing past, has this feedback loop in your brain where then your brain goes, oh, this is that bad? I don't wanna call it bad. It's the dysphoric feeling. I better figure out a way to deal with that and adapt and make something good so that later when I have that uncomfortable dysphoric feeling, I don't feel so uncomfortable. And so what happens is your brain. Brain starts to make more of these receptors. Receptors are things that neurochemicals and neurotransmitters and things like that bind to. To have an effect. So they make more of the receptors that bind endorphins. They're called mu. Opioid receptors, and they become more sensitive to endorphins. This happens only when you're getting that uncomfortable dynorphin flooding your brain. And so what happens is then later on, when anything happens that's a little bit pleasant, you're going to feel it better and for a longer period of time. And so that just makes everything easier when you have that sensitive, that sensitization to these endorphins, which we are making all throughout the day. Little things like, yo, seeing your friends smile, like all these little things they're making you make endorphins. And it's just a matter of how powerful are you going to feel that endorphin. And so the uncomfortableness of the dynorphin is what is doing that. But you have to engage in the hard, uncomfortable thing that makes you feel

Mel Robbins

that dysphoric feeling that makes so much sense. So if you force yourself to do. And we're just talking about moving your body to do some form of exercise, even just for a minute, even for three minutes, even for 10 minutes, that what's happening because you're experiencing all of that discomfort is it paves the way for you to now really magnify all of the beautiful and wonderful and comfortable things that follow it. Cause you got the discomfort out of the way.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Isn't it amazing?

Mel Robbins

It's awesome. It's actually amazing because I think we've all had an experience. And as you're listening or you're watching right now, think about something that you pushed yourself to do physically, Whether it was a 5k or it was some trail that you hiked that was harder than you thought, but you got to the top, or maybe you climbed a ridiculous amount of stairs and you get to the top and you surprise yourself and you're out of breath. It is true that when you look up, the view is spectacular. The rest of the day is downhill, so to speak, because you got the hard thing out of the way.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

You got the hard thing out of the way and your body adapted to that hard thing and said, hey, I'm gonna make the good things feel even better because I got to negate some of that hard stuff that I know I'm going to face again.

Mel Robbins

In the old world, Mel Robbins would have gone straight to the refrigerator and grabbed a snack to make me feel comfortable. Based on hearing all of this research, I suspect that if I were to do an exercise snack instead, and I were to do a minute to three minutes of air squats or go just walk up the hill by my house or climb some stairs or high knees or whatever, and I'm breathless in the kitchen, that would have a massive benefit on how I feel right after and my ability to handle the stress of whatever I'm in in that moment. Is that right?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Absolutely right. Massive, massive benefit. Exercise snack is exactly what you should do. In those types of moments, until you do it, you don't realize how powerful it is because you hear one minute, three minutes, no way. But when you do it, you actually then realize it's so powerful. She's right. The exercise snack.

Mel Robbins

You know, Dr. Patrick, I'm just sitting here reflecting on everything you've shared so far. I'm so grateful that you're here. Thank you for flying across country. Thank you for sharing this with us. I have so many more questions, but I wanna take a quick pause because I'm sure you have people in your life that you're thinking about. And go ahead and share this link with them while you take a moment and listen to a few words from our amazing sponsors. And don't go anywhere. Dr. Patrick has so much more to teach you and to share with you and unpack for you. And we are just getting started, so stay with us. You know that feeling when your brain is fried? You have like 12 irritating tasks you don't care about, but you have to do them anyway. That's where I've been lately. The administrative stuff was eating up half my day. So I've been using Microsoft Copilot as my extra set of hands. It's like having your own personal assistant. That's why Microsoft Copilot is my favorite AI tool. Last week, I had to send this long, overly complicated email about scheduling and travel, the kind of thing that takes up way too much energy for what it is. I opened Copilot, talked to it out loud while I was walking around my kitchen, and Copilot turned it into a clean, professional draft. It was amazing. And because my brain wasn't fried, I had the energy to sit down and eat dinner with Chris without feeling mentally wiped. That's the whole point for me. Microsoft Copilot clears the clutter so I can be more present for the moments that matter. That's why I'm using it. If you want to try it for yourself, visit Microsoft.com Melrobbins to download the Copilot app. Get started with Copilot today for free and see how handing off the small stuff gives you more energy for the moments that matter. That's Microsoft.com, i have two truths and a lie to share with you. Here we go. I high five myself in the mirror every morning. I'm amazing at fly fishing. I have been a Verizon customer for over a decade. All right, I lied. All three of those are true. And you know Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your ATT or T mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. Take your AT&T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get your better deal and start saving for real. And one of the reasons why I've been a Verizon customer for over a decade. They have the best cell service everywhere. I travel so much for work and Verizon is always there for me. Based on root metrics Best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025 all rights reserved. Must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice

You should be curious about your heart. It's doing a lot for you. After all, it beats about 100,000 times a day without you even thinking about it. And when it comes to your heart's health, one of the most useful biomarkers you should know about is apob. Here's why it matters. Every particle in your blood that build up in your arteries carries one apob. So your APOB result counts them, and that's where tests through function comes in. With function, you get access to over 160 lab tests, APOB included, plus your full lipid panel, inflammation markers, hormones, and more. You see the numbers and you watch how they move. It's time to stop guessing about the body that's been carrying you around your whole life. This summer, check your health for $365 a year, literally a dollar a day. Learn more and join using this show's link, visit functionhealth.commelrobbins and use gift code MEL for a $25 credit toward your membership.

Mel Robbins

Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are here with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, and she's teaching you about the first five supplements that she believes every person should be taking. We're digging into the research. We are going through them one to one. So let's keep going. Dr. Patrick, my next question is this. You know, one topic that I hear a lot of people talking about is visceral fat, and I'm not even sure I understand exactly what it is. And is that like when you see a guy that's relatively skinny and then they look like they're kind of pregnant or what? And I don't mean to be offensive to anybody, but I don't really understand what visceral fat is.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Visceral fat is the Kind of fat that you cannot pinch. So the fat that you can pinch is subcutaneous fat. That's the fat that's stored as energy, it's energy storage. Visceral fat is, yes, it is usually around the midsection, this belly fat, but it's the deep, deep belly fat. It's actually surrounding organs like the liver, the kidneys, it's surrounding the organs. And unlike the subcutaneous fat, this fat is not just stored energy. It's like an endocrine organ. Endocrine organs like make hormones, it's making hormones, it's making inflammatory molecules causing inflammation that are wreaking havoc on your body. It is something that, not necessarily someone that looks maybe lean, they might actually have visceral fat. So waist circumference is, is a indirect way of measuring it. So for a woman, if you have a waist circumference of 35 inches or higher, that's a pretty good indicator that you have a high amount of visceral fat. For men, it would be about 40 inches or higher. But it doesn't necessarily have to be the waist circumference because some people are lean and they don't eat good diets. We can talk about the main drivers of it. They can increase their visceral fat. Why is it something to care about? Is also a really important question. I think because, you know, most people, when they think about fat, they're thinking about, well, I don't, you know, my looks, I don't look good.

Mel Robbins

Right.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

But they're thinking about their long term health. You know, obesity and being overweight is obviously a major driver of, you know, increasing many different diseases. Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cancer, for example.

Mel Robbins

Right.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

But visceral fat is, it doubles mortality. So people with a high amount of visceral fat die, you know, sooner. So you're talking about double risk mortality. It also increases cancer incidence. So people that are making these inflammatory cytokines, inflammation drives cancer. And so people that have visceral fat have like a 44% higher risk of having cancer. It's insulin resistance, it's causing insulin resistance, you know, metabolic dysfunction. But I think what people relate to more is the effects that are happening on a day to day basis. So because visceral fat is causing inflammation, it's activating your immune system each day. Right. You don't want your immune system to be activated each day. You want it to be activated when you're exposed to a pathogen. That's what the immune system is there for. Right. It's there to fight off foreign invaders, Whether that's a virus or a bacterial invader or whether it's a cancer cell. Right. This is what your immune system is meant to do and be activated for. When you have this chronic inflammatory signal that's being produced by your own body inside of your own body, it's activating your immune system, which is extremely energetically demanding. It is taking energy. I mean, when you're sick, you're sleepy, you're tired, you're fatigued, you have no energy. Well, that's happening to some degree. When someone has this chronic inflammatory signal from visceral fat, it is gonna make you feel fatigued because the energy is literally being sucked away to your immune system, because that's what it needs to activate the immune system, is a lot of energy. So you're gonna feel chronic fatigue. The other thing it's gonna make people feel is they're gonna have these energy crashes followed by cravings. And the reason for that is because visceral fat is metabolically active, it is breaking down fatty acids and these fatty acids, because the location of it right around your liver, it's going straight to the liver. And essentially, it's the liver is prioritizing that fuel rather than the fuel you eat. Perhaps you eat a meal, you're gonna have your blood sugar, your blood glucose is gonna go up. Usually you'll make insulin in a response to that, and the glucose will then go into your muscle or go into adipose tissue. What happens when you have visceral fat is that whole process is completely dysregulated because you're constantly making fatty acids. Those fatty acids stop the body from making insulin. So after you eat a meal, the glucose stays around, your body freaks out and goes, I better make more insulin. So it overcompensates, makes a lot of insulin. Then all the glucose goes out of your bloodstream, goes into adipose tissue or muscle, whatever, and all of a sudden, your blood glucose drops and you are crashing. Your energy goes down. Then your brain is sensing that and going, oh, my gosh, I need energy. What's the quickest way I can have energy? And you start to get these cravings for the quickest type of fuel, typically processed junk food. So this is kind of the vicious cycle of visceral fat causing fatigue, causing energy crashes, causing cravings, and then insulin resistance sort of in the making, and eventually type 2 diabetes.

Mel Robbins

Okay, the thing I want to unpack is how you described it. So I personally found it extremely helpful to understand that there are two different types. One is the kind we can pinch. And the other is this visceral fat, which, as you were describing it, is something that is surrounding your organs. It sounded like a invasive species that is coating certain organs and then starting to expand out and in doing so creates almost like its own little toxic ecosystem around your organs.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And.

Mel Robbins

And I personally, maybe somebody's explained it to me like that. I've never visually imagined it like that. And the second that you described it that way and that it, you know, is the kind of thing that's like a. It's like dense, like you're not gonna fix this with a crunch at the gym. I immediately thought, my God, if I have that sort of, you know, invasive species encasing my organs, how the hell do I get rid of this? Because I don't want that happening underneath the surface and robbing me of years on my life, robbing me of energy, disrupting my metabolic systems. What is the research, say, Dr. Patrick, about the specific thing you should do if this is you or somebody that you love?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Well, the good news is, is that it is easy to get rid of it.

Mel Robbins

It is.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It is. It is actually the first kind of fat you lose if you're on any type of weight loss program. The way that you lose visceral fat is kind of entangled in with how you can gain it easily as well. And I think they're both important to understand because you can gain it very easily, quite quickly if you're eating a lot of calories. So there's studies showing that men, healthy young college men, you know, they're eating 1200 more calories a day for five days, they will gain excess visceral fat without even gaining weight. So there you get on a scale, really not much weight gain at all. But you are gaining visceral fat. And that's important to point out because I think sometimes people think, oh, if I'm not gaining weight, if I'm weighing myself every morning, then I'm fine. Not necessarily the case. So if you're eating excess calories, particularly in the form of processed foods, things that don't have a lot of fiber, you're eating, like, refined sugars, really easy to gain visceral fat. Good news is also easy to lose. The ways that you can lose visceral fat, for one, would be caloric deficit, any sort of weight loss program. In fact, it's one of the first types of fat that you lose. High intensity interval training, vigorous types of exercise. That is one of the most robust ways to help lose visceral Fat again, you will lose it without even seeing that reflected on a scale. So just know that if you are doing your 10 breathless minutes, perhaps you're doing 30 minutes a day, you're adding in some moderate intensity, you're adding in some walking, brisk walking, in addition to the 10 breathless minutes, the 10 vigorous minutes that you're doing that is really has been shown to help lose visceral fat. Even if you don't see that reflected on the scale. Very important to keep in mind. Sleep is extremely important and that is because being in a chronically stressed state can cause your body to react and start to accumulate visceral fat. There's studies showing that two weeks of sleep deprivation. So for an individual going from nine hours of sleep per night to four hours for two weeks, they will gain about 11% of visceral fat just in two weeks.

Mel Robbins

Wow.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So big, big time. Making sure you're prioritizing your sleep and not being chronically sleep deprived, very important. Also stress, you know, a lot of that psychological stress, being able to deal with that stress better. And again, that comes down to the exercise. It's going to help your reaction, your cortisol response to the psychological stress is going to be buffered by that exercise that you're doing. So that's the key. Those are the main things that are really helping you lose fat and the drivers of it. So making sure you're not sleep deprived, making sure you're dealing with your stress are important. But any sort of weight loss and then doing the vigorous exercise is the most important type of exercise. Resistance training is important. You don't lose as much visceral fat, but it does overall help your metabolic health, which will help you prevent you from gaining as much visceral fat, if that makes sense. So engaging in resistance training is a very important part of your exercise program. You want to make sure you're maintaining muscle mass. Those bodyweight squats are a way to do that, but you can also do them vigorously and get the best of both worlds. I would say.

Mel Robbins

Dr. Patrick, hold that thought. I have a follow up question, but I need to hit the pause button because we have amazing sponsors that I want to give a chance to share a few words with you. Don't go anywhere. Dr. Patrick has so much more to teach you when we return, so stay with us. You know that feeling when your brain is fried? You have like 12 irritating tasks you don't care about, but you have to do them anyway. That's where I've been lately. The administrative stuff was eating up half my day. So I've been using Microsoft Copilot as my extra set of hands. It's like having your own personal assistant. That's why Microsoft Copilot is my favorite AI tool. Last week I had to send this long, overly complicated email about scheduling and travel, the kind of thing that takes up way too much energy for what it is. I opened Copilot, talked to it out loud while I was walking around my kitchen, and Copilot turned it into a clean, professional draft. It was amazing. And because my brain wasn't fried, I had the energy to sit down and eat dinner with Chris without feeling mentally wiped. That's the whole point for me. Microsoft Copilot clears the clutter so I can be more present for the moments that matter. That's why I'm using it. If you want to try it for yourself, visit Microsoft.com Melrobbins to download the Copilot app. Get started with Copilot today for free and see how handing the small stuff gives you more energy for the moments that matter. That's Microsoft.com Melrobbins when it comes to investing or really anything, don't you think it's important to choose a company that you can trust? One where you have the freedom to do things your way with confidence? Because some days you might want a little more control and flexibility and other times you may need a specialist in your corner to help out? Well, a Schwab, you get all that more all in one place. Schwab has everything from self directed investing when you're thinking, hey, I got this all the way to full service wealth management when you're like, you know what? I'm going to need to get some help. That includes planning for big goals too, like college, buying a house, retirement planning, and more. Because if you're going to do this whole money thing, you might as well choose a firm that lets you do it your way, right? Visit schwab.com to learn more. That's schwab.com you should be curious about your heart.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice

It's doing a lot for you. After all, it beats about 100,000 times a day without you even thinking about it. And when it comes to your heart's health, one of the most useful biomarkers you should know about is apob. Here's why it matters. Every particle in your blood that can build up in your arteries carries one apob. So your APOB result counts them. And that's where tests through function comes in. With function, you get access to over 100 APOB included. Plus your full lipid panel, inflammation markers, hormones and more. You see the numbers and you watch how they move. It's time to stop guessing about the body that's been carrying you around your whole life. This summer, check your health for $365 a year. Literally a dollar a day. Learn more and join using this show's link, visit functionhealth.commelrobbins and use gift code MEL for a $25 credit toward your membership.

Mel Robbins

Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are getting to learn from the extraordinary Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Dr. Patrick, let's just jump right back in where we were. I have a quick question, though. If somebody's listening to you and they're saying, oh, my God, I've been doing everything. I've been going to the gym, I've been watching what I eat, I've been drinking my water, I've been trying to sleep, and Nothing is changing. Dr. Patrick, what is the first thing you would have them audit about their lifestyle?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I think for someone that really thinks they're doing all the right things, first of all, I would ask, are you getting seven and a half to nine hours of sleep? Not being in bed for seven and a half to nine hours, I mean sleep. Right. I would ask, are you getting bright light exposure within 30 minutes of waking up for at least 15 to 30 minutes? Because that is what is resetting your biological clock, your circadian clock. So every organ in our body has a clock and everything is running on a clock. Our metabolism, our neurotransmitter, synthesis, like making neurochemicals, our immune function, everything, hormone production. Right. And so you want to reset that clock every morning. And the bright light exposure is the reset. It's the master regulator in your brain. It's called the suprachiasmatic nucleus region. Light is what is resetting it. So that your brain and your body know start. This is the reset start of the clock. It's going to start making the hormones at the right time. So that bright light is going to make something called cortisol. We've all heard of it, we're all scared of it. We shouldn't be. It's very important. It's a hormone that you want to be making first thing in the morning and you want to make a lot of it because it's regulating 20% of your human genome. A lot of important things that it's regulating. What you don't want is that slow drip cortisol where it's not getting the big amplitude peak, it's just a little drip, drip, drip throughout the day. It's making that stress response and it's dysregulating all those 20% of genes, right? So that happens first thing in the morning because cortisol actually wakes you up, gives you energy, you want that. So the bright light is really important because it'll also help you. Your body will know when to go to sleep. It'll start to make melatonin, that's that sleepy hormone at the right time. Your core body temperature will dip at the right time during sleep so that you can stay asleep. All these little things, you don't think what your heart rate will be going down, right? All those little things, that's all controlled by your circadian clock. And if you don't reset it, it's not going to be working properly. Right. So bright light exposure, are you waking up at the same time every morning? Very much like bright light exposure, that's also a reset for your clock. Your body anticipates when it's supposed to wake up. When you start to get these erratic wake up times, let's say you're socializing, you're out late and you're doing it constantly. Your brain can't figure out when it's supposed to wake up. And so all these hormones and all these things that are important and on a clock don't happen. So it really affects your sleep. Then I would ask, are you eating within three hours of going to bed? Because that also really affects your sleep. You don't want to be digesting food when you're sleeping. So if you're eating an hour before you go to bed, it takes about five hours to digest your food. When you're digesting food, you're activating what's called the sympathetic nervous system. That's the fight or flight response. It's when your heart rate's going up, it's signaling to your body, time to be awake, time to be awake. So you might be sleeping, but you're fighting. Your body's going, no, no, I'm digesting, I'm supposed to be awake. And so your sleep isn't going to be good. You're going to have more awakening things. It's also been shown in studies you're not going to have that robust cardiovascular reset. Your blood pressure won't dip as low, it'll dip a little bit, but it won't have that big amplitude dip. And that's very important again for preventing. In fact, there's studies showing that if you don't have that cardiovascular dip as robustly. You're 20% more likely to get cardiovascular disease earlier in life. So very important. And then alcohol consumption would be the thing. I would also ask, are you drinking alcohol too close to bed? Because a lot of people have this misconception, because alcohol can help you fall asleep faster. That's why people like to drink alcohol at night. It disrupts your REM sleep. So you're gonna have. And it also causes more awakenings in the night. So that would be the first thing I would ask. I know that was a lot, but it's important because I don't think that many people are realizing perhaps their sleep isn't optimized. And there are a few core behaviors that you can sort of tweak that will really affect your sleep. And. And that would be a place to start, because if you're not getting. If you're chronically sleep deprived, like I mentioned, you're gonna be getting visceral fat. You're gaining visceral fat, and you're going, why am I still gaining it when I'm, you know, doing some exercise and, you know, you're battling. It's like the battle. Like it's tug of war, essentially.

Mel Robbins

Well, first, Dr. Patrick, I wanna thank you, because when I asked you that question of what would be the lifestyle audit that you would focus on if somebody feels like they're doing all the right things, but nothing is changing about their health or their body composition, I thought you were gonna say, look at what you're eating. And so the fact that you said you need to do an audit of your sleep was both surprising to me. And it was also very helpful to have you walk through those five questions that you need to ask yourself, because those questions around how much sleep are you getting? And are you getting bright light in the morning? Are you waking up at the same time every morning? When are you eating? In terms of how close are you eating to your bedtime? And then finally, are you drinking at night? Those five questions give you, almost like a treasure hunt, the answers to the things you need to change in order to get a better night's sleep. So now, Dr. Patrick, I wanna shift gears and go into the category of nutrition. And you have a daily smoothie recipe that makes it simple and easy for us to get a lot of the things that we need every single day in one smoothie.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Let's do it.

Mel Robbins

All right, let's step out of the studio and head into the kitchen here in Boston. So, Dr. Patrick, you are about to teach us how you make the smoothie that you have every day. And for those of you that are listening, I'm just gonna tell you. I see kale, I see blueberry, I see avocado, I see protein, and I see something I can't pronounce.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Okay. It's a beta glucan powder made from barley. Before we get into this smoothie I make every day, I kind of want to give a little bit of reason why I like to do a smoothie every day. And it really comes down to realizing that what we do in our lifestyle and our diet really is impactful on the way we age and our life expectancy. A lot of people think genetics are the most important thing. And when it comes down to it, really, 80% of how long we live and how well we live has to do with our lifestyle.

Mel Robbins

Hold on, 80.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

80%? About 80%? Yeah. I would say about 20 to 25% is genetics. But what I'm gonna tell you is this study that actually came out of Harvard here in Boston, and it was really, I mean, it was a few years ago, but it was really a compelling study because what it did was looked at people's diet and lifestyle and their life expectancy and found that if people followed just like five different lifestyle factors, it could increase their life expectancy between 12 and 14 years. So women, on average, that were not doing all five of these lifestyle factors, which is a big part of it, is what we're going to be looking at here, they lived on average about 79 years. If they did include all five of the lifestyle factors, they lived to the age of about. They added 14 years. So they lived to about 93, what, 14 years? 14 years. If they started at age 55, different healthy lifestyle factors included all five. They lived to age 93. So it was a 14 year increase in life expectancy. For men that started at age 50, it was a 12 year increased life expectancy. So they were living on average, 74.5, 75.5 years, and they went up to about 86 years.

Mel Robbins

And just what are quickly those five lifestyles?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

The five are adopting a healthy lifestyle pattern, which we're going to talk about, okay, not smoking, doing three and a half hours of moderate or vigorous intensity per week. We talked a lot about the vigorous intensity exercise. Ten minutes a day. That would be 70 minutes a week. And so you're basically going to add on to that by doing some of the more moderate intensity exercises.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice

Got it.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So that was number three. Number four is not consuming Excess alcohol. So women were consuming fewer than one drink per day, and men consumed about one drink per day or fewer.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And then the last one is maintaining a healthy BMI. Those were the five lifestyle factors that could add between 12 to 14 years to your life expectancy. And on top of that, those individuals were free from diseases like cardiovascular disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, cancer. Right. So you're living healthy years, which is what you want.

Mel Robbins

Yes.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

The nutrition part is a big component of this. So those individuals were eating. They were in the top 40% of the. What's called the alternative healthy eating pattern. And what that includes is, first and foremost, you have to have four to five servings of fruits and vegetables per day. So those vegetables. What's a serving? Is the question. A serving was either a cup of leafy greens, so you have to have 4 to 5 of that. And so you can see here, this is a measuring cup. This is a cup for those people. That person that's.

Mel Robbins

And she's packing.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Just packing it.

Mel Robbins

Yeah, Regular old kale. Nothing fancy about it. Right into the 1 cup metal measuring cup, kale.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And remember, you gotta get five of these per day. And this is why. This is efficient. We've been talking about efficient. We've been talking about what can we do that's easy? That's gonna give us the biggest bang for our buck. I find it's easiest for me to get five servings of vegetables if I can at least, you know, get a smoothie in. So here's the kale. That's one cup. I'm gonna add another cup here.

Mel Robbins

So you're getting two servings in.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I'm getting two servings. I'm probably gonna get around three servings of kale into that smoothie.

Mel Robbins

Three cups of kale.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So three cups of kale. There we go. And that is. Then I can substitute the rest with my salad. Kale is really high in lutein. Lutein is that thing that's gonna prevent your eyes from macular degeneration. It also seems to protect the brain. It improves cognitive processing, cognitive speed, fluid intelligence. That's the kind of intelligence that you've accumulated throughout a lifetime and then can still incorporate when you're older. That's what we want, right? So kale has a lot of that. It also has magnesium, it has calcium, it has vitamin K. It's got a lot of these micronutrients that we need to get from our diet. The next thing I like to add is blueberries. And blueberries are part of that serving size. Of fruit and vegetables. And again, it's about a half a cup as a serving. So if you want five servings of that, you're going to get about two and a half cups of the blueberries. I also like blueberries because they're high in polyphenols, a specific type of polyphenol called anthocyanins. And those have been shown in randomized placebo controlled studies. That's very important because placebo effect is real, as we've talked about. But the blueberries have been shown one cup a day to improve cognition. That's important, right? We all wanna improve cognition. It's been shown in young adults, it's been shown in older adults, it's been shown in adults with mild cognitive decline. So everyone has every reason to try to take at least one cup of blueberries a day. So I'm gonna put one cup.

Mel Robbins

Yep. And we use frozen, which I also like. Cause they're cheaper than buying them fresh.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And I do have. I do like to usually use organic because I don't want a lot of pesticides. But I do like frozen also because it keeps the smoothie cool cold and it just gives it a better. Like you don't want your smoothie really warm. So I had two cups, two cups

Mel Robbins

of blueberries, three cups of kale in there.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I'm gonna do two and a half cups.

Mel Robbins

Wow. Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Two and a half cups of blueberries. And then one thing I do not add to my smoothie is a banana.

Mel Robbins

Now, why don't you like bananas?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I mean, I love bananas. They're high in potassium, they're good to refuel. I love to do em before a run. It gives me enough fuel without cramping. Right. But I used to put them in my smoothies.

Mel Robbins

Dr. Patrick, what happens when you put a banana in a smoothie?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

What happens is there's something in the banana called polyphenol oxidase.

Mel Robbins

That doesn't sound good.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Doesn't sound good. Polyphenols are what I just said are beneficial. Yes, Oxidase. Polyphenol oxidase is essentially an enzyme that's breaking down the polyphenols. And there have now been studies that have come out showing if you add bananas to blueberries, you're not getting as many polyphenols. In fact, it's quite a bit lower.

Mel Robbins

So the banana is killing the benefit of the. See, this is why I need you. Because I am sitting here making smoothies thinking, I like the texture of the banana in it. It gives a little. Heft creams it out a little bit. But then I'm putting in my blueberries, and I just blew it because the banana canceled the blueberries.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It's true. I also used to add it to my blueberries for the exact reason plus the taste. If you go to any smoothie place, you'll see they always add bananas to any blueberry smoothie.

Mel Robbins

Yes, of course.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

But that's where the avocado comes in, because now you're gonna get the creamy texture that you want, which is what I also want. Yes. And on top of that, there have been studies showing that the fat. So this monounsaturated fat in this avocado, it actually increases the bioavailability of the lutein and another carotenoid coid called zeaxanthin in the kale by fourfold.

Mel Robbins

Okay, well, hold on. Let me just make sure I'm tracking with this. So if I sub the avocado for the banana. Right. Then the fact that the avocado, which is a good, healthy fat source, is gonna dance around and mix it up with the kale. That fat source superpowers the benefit of the kale.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It does.

Mel Robbins

That's cool.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It makes it where you're. So the getting rid of the banana makes it where you're getting all the polyphenols from the blueberries. And then adding the avocado gives you the creaminess, and it helps you superpower and get those carotenoids that are in the kale that are so beneficial for our eyes and brains and making it fourfold more likely to be absorbed. So you're getting a lot more. And there are studies showing this, adding an avocado. Carrots have carotenoids in them, so you can get. The beta carotene is probably the most well known carotenoid. You get fourfold more beta carotene. So you could even add a carrot in here if you want. In fact, I often like to add carrots as well. So I'm gonna just use my fingers and put that.

Mel Robbins

Yeah, that was a good.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

I usually do about half of an avocado.

Mel Robbins

Okay, half an avocado, and you can

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

save the other half for the next day.

Mel Robbins

And then you know what I do? I put this little top that's empty on top of the other one. And then it doesn't, like, turn brown.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Right. You can add lemon juice as well. That'll prevent it from oxidizing a little tint. All right. So this is really the core of this smoothie. Smoothie here. Now, these Are the optionals here? I like to add some protein powder, particularly on days when I'm really busy. I'm not getting. I know I'm skipping a meal because I'm not getting all the protein that I. I need for the day, which is about 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kg body weight per day. And so I'll add sometimes a little bit of whey protein powder as well. You don't have to do that if you're getting your protein. This is again, an optional add.

Mel Robbins

I think it's very hard to get the amount of protein we're supposed to get, so I'm always adding it a

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

lot like I do. So I'm going to go ahead and add protein powder. I do like, I'm not. I have no affiliation with Momentous currently right now, and. But I do like their protein powder because it doesn't have any fillers that affect my gut. And so I'm just scooping down to get their scooper because their scooper is the actual serving size. There it is. It's so funny. They're always hidden down there. Okay, so I'm gonna take one scoop of protein powder, which for this one, 23 grams. That's 23 grams. So here in it goes. If you're sharing it, you can do two scoops. So I think I'll do like a scoop and a half.

Mel Robbins

Does that mean you're sharing it with me? I hope it does.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Oops. Show that. Okay. And then an optional add. This is actually a type of prebiotic fiber. You've probably heard of that. It's like prebiotic fiber.

Mel Robbins

I've heard of fibers and I've heard of probiotics.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Okay. Probiotics are the beneficial bacteria. If you take those, it helps. Prebiotics are the type of fiber, soluble fiber, fermentable fiber that feed the bacteria in your gut.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So that's why it's called a prebiotic.

Mel Robbins

Got it.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Okay. Feeding it. So it's a type of prebiotic, it's beta glucan and it's isolated from barley. In this case. The reason why I have now added this to my, I would say regimen, soon to be smoothie regimen, is because this has been shown in studies 1 to lower LDL cholesterol, which is a type of cholesterol that can build up in your arteries and play a role in cardiovascular disease. But what really piqued my attention was the fact that there's studies showing that beta glucans can decrease the amount of forever Chemicals, the pfas, Forever Chemicals that last. Usually last in your body anywhere between two to five years. They're associated with cancer. It's really terrible. And we're being exposed to them all the time, even on our fruits and vegetables. They're in the soil. You know, it's something that even kids are being exposed to. So now I'm something I've been giving to my whole family.

Mel Robbins

Okay. How much do I need?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So usually I do one gram. And one gram, it says here, is three tablespoons. So I'm gonna grab that tablespoon out. Okay. One, two, three.

Mel Robbins

Plus account stored fiber. Which is great.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yes.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Now, the study that showed it reduced forever chemicals, it was three grams a day. So you have to do. You have to do the three tablespoons three times a day. Wow. To get that. Yeah.

Mel Robbins

That's a lot.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yes. Yeah. Or you can add. Perhaps you can add more and get it in one serving. But we're gonna start with the three grams.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Then add a little bit of water just to mix it up a little bit. And as I'm standing here over the blender, Mel, I just want to point out one thing in that this blender is made of plastic.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And there. There is a little bit of a concern that plastic blenders can shed microplastics more readily because of the friction with everything that's in there.

Mel Robbins

So you should have a glass one.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

If you can have glass, there's also some metal ones that you can buy as well.

Mel Robbins

Did you hear that, everybody? We gotta get a glass blender around here.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Okay.

Mel Robbins

Thank you for giving us the pass, Dr. Patrick. Here she is. About to hit the blend, everybody. Cover your ears. Here we go. Oh, that's really purple.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yeah, I like the polyphenols. I just want to see what the consistency looks like. Yeah, I think we're good.

Mel Robbins

Excellent. Well, I got two wine glasses. Since we're not drinking alcohol, we might as well.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It's polyphenol hour.

Mel Robbins

Yes. There we go.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yeah. And the polyphenols, I feel them immediately. It's been shown to increase blood flow to the brain in older adults.

Mel Robbins

What exactly do you feel?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It improves my mood and gives me energy. So I do take this midday. Just do a little glass.

Mel Robbins

I'm actually kind of excited to try this. Well, everything always tastes better when somebody else makes it. I mean, that's true.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So polyphenol hour. Cheers.

Mel Robbins

Cheers. To your health, Dr. Patrick. Let's try her new smoothie recipe. Here we go. That tastes like health. It's not sweet enough for me.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It's not bad.

Mel Robbins

It's not supposed to be sweet, though, right?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It's not. You can add the extra.

Mel Robbins

I would add more blueberries, I think,

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

to make it sweeter. And, of course, you can never get enough blueberries.

Mel Robbins

Mm. You definitely taste the kale. And it has the same consistency as if we had put a banana in.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It does. It's creamy.

Mel Robbins

Yeah. And I love the purple.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

And actually, the prebiotic fiber didn't really mess with the consistency, to be honest.

Mel Robbins

Well, I don't know. Cause you're the one that makes this all the time, so I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It didn't.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It really didn't.

Mel Robbins

Okay, now, if I'm putting that much fiber in my smoothie, do I need to drink more water? Is that gonna back me up?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

No, this is not the kind of fiber that you have to worry about that. This is prebiotic fiber. That's a little bit different.

Mel Robbins

Cause I know if you were doing, like, psyllium husk or some of the other stuff. You gotta really make sure you're hydrating.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Right. It's bringing. You gotta make sure you get more water in you. Right.

Mel Robbins

Amazing. We're gonna go back in the studio and talk about what else we could be eating in the bucket of nutrition. And here's to your health. One of the other things that I noticed, Dr. Patrick, about the smoothie is that it had five ingredients, and you were talking about those five healthy lifestyle index factors that really have a massive impact on the quality of your life and your health. The smoothie was terrific. And again, you promised easy ways to apply the advice every single day. What are other foods we should focus on eating?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yeah. So some of the other foods that are important, first and foremost, getting omega 3 fatty acids. Some people don't like fish, which is why the supplementation of Omega 3 is great. But if you want to take the healthy alternative, Healthy eating index has two servings per week of 4 ounces of fatty fish, like salmon or mackerel. Right. So that would be two servings per week, 4 ounces each. And then you want to make sure you're getting enough whole grains. And these whole grains in this, you know, healthy eating index come from oats, barley, quinoa, brown rice, farro, those types of whole grains. Women need to take in about 70 grams per day, and men need to take in about 90 grams per day. And just to give you a little background here, 98% of the population's not getting enough fiber every day. And that plays a very important role in our colon health and our overall health. LDL cholesterol as well. And then red meat, processed meat, these are also foods that are on the list. How much should you be eating? It seems like the sweet spot for red meat is about 12 to 18 ounces per week. Not going over that. And then almost no processed meats, like less than one serving per week. So really cutting out the lunch meats and the processed meats, the hot dogs, the bacon, that stuff is processed meats. And that also has been associated with colon cancer. The other thing on this healthy eating index is sodium intake. So you wanna make sure that you're not really going above. Usually it was like 2, 2300 milligrams per day, ideally 1,500 milligrams a day. And I do think sodium intake is really also just a proxy for our ultra processed foods. You wanna really be minimizing that. A lot of those have a lot of high sodium. If you're getting foods that are, if you're eating out at a restaurant, you might have a lot of sodium in that as well. So that's also important. And then also making sure that we're not eating and drinking sugar sweetened beverages. So that's zero of those. This is all part of that study where we're trying to really like be at the top 40% of that healthy, you know, eating index. And so you want to make sure you're at zero sugar sweetened beverages per day, including juice. So if you're going to eat fruit, it has to be with the whole fruit and the fiber. That changes the way your body is processing and absorbing glucose. Very important. And then the ultra processed foods are pretty much, I'd say less than one to two servings a week. So really, really low on eating the junk food.

Mel Robbins

Dr. Patrick, you mentioned Omega 3s and I know that there are five supplements that based on the research you recommend that everyone takes. What are those five supplements that should be on our list and how much should you be taking?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So Omega 3s are really at the top of the list, mostly because most people don't want to eat 2 servings of fish per week either. And it seems as though to get from a low omega 3 index to a high omega 3 index, it takes about 2 grams a day. So that's a pretty good starting point for omega 3 supplementation. The second would be a multivitamin. And depending on what the serving size is, I take one a day because that's my serving size. Some multivitamins are three to capsules. So you wanna take one of those and that's filling a lot of nutritional gaps. And then you wanna take a vitamin D. Vitamin D is very important because it is converted into a hormone. 70% of us are not getting enough of it. Usually a good spot for vitamin D is 4,000 IUs a day. So the fourth supplement would be magnesium. We did get some magnesium from those kale leaves that we had in this smoothie. Magnesium is a very, very important co factor for 300 different processes in the body. I personally like to take 250 milligrams a day. That's two capsules of my 125. And that seems to help me when I take it at night with sleep as well. Plus I'm getting to that goal of about 300. For me it's more like 350 milligrams a day because I do sweat and you lose magnesium through sweat. So that would be the fourth supplement. And then lastly, creatine is something I think a lot of people can benefit because one it does. If you're working out and exercising, which you should be after this episode, you know that exercise snacks are itchy, achievable, attainable, and that you should be doing them every day, like you brush your teeth, that'll help you with those exercise snacks. It'll make them easier, you'll be able to do them more, you'll recover quicker.

Mel Robbins

Really?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yes, yes they will.

Mel Robbins

Like if I take creatine powder in the morning, how much am I taking?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

You're taking 10 grams. I would do, I do five and five. So I, I do five before my workout and then I do five after my workout.

Mel Robbins

Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

The reason the creatine is going to help you with that workout, by the way, it's going to take about four weeks before your muscles saturate. So four weeks of getting at least five grams a day, your muscles will be saturated. So if you're starting off fresh, give yourself about a month.

Mel Robbins

Okay. So it's not like magic juice. It's not like magic this. And all of a sudden those air squats are a breeze.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

It'll take four weeks before it builds up in your muscle. And once you get to that buildup point, that saturation point, then the five days is just keeping it there, Keeping it there, Right. So what you'll notice is that your air squats will be easier because you can replete, you can replenish ATP, which you're using as you're doing them quicker.

Mel Robbins

Huh. So and what's the other benefit, though?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So the 5 grams after is to benefit the brain. Because we now know from research that it takes about 10 grams per day for it to get into the brain. Five grams is greedily taken up by muscle. Once you get past that to 10 grams, it gets into the brain. And there's research showing that there's benefits in the brain, particularly if your brain is stressed, like sleep deprivation, you know, any sort of neurodegenerative disease, or I like to extrapolate and say just the chronic stresses of daily life.

Mel Robbins

So you're taking 10 grams of creatine every morning?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Yes, I take 10 grams every morning. I split it up in two 5 gram doses. Sometimes I do 10 if I don't have time, but I do 10 grams every day. That's my baseline. When I'm traveling sleep deprived, I go up to 20 to 25 grams, depending on how sleep deprived I am, because studies show that helps with sleep deprivation.

Mel Robbins

If you had to boil everything down, I would love to have you speak directly to the person who's here listening or watching right now. And out of everything that you talked about, all the research that you shared, the simplified recommendations based on this exquisite research, if the person listening or watching takes just one action out of all of this, what do you think the most important thing to do today is?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

10 minutes of breathless exercise. The 10 minutes of vigorous exercise. Exercise, snacks. That would be the most important thing.

Mel Robbins

And, Dr. Patrick, what are your parting words?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

My parting words are you can do this. You can do this, and you should do it. And then once you do it, you're gonna realize how much you can do it. And you're gonna wanna do it because you're gonna feel amazing.

Mel Robbins

I love you. I need that on repeat as the alarm every morning. You should do this. You can do this. And you're gonna feel better when you do this. Thank you for giving us the simple things to do and for also explaining why it matters and how it is gonna make us feel better. You're amazing, Dr. Patrick.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Thanks so much, Mel. I really had a great time. Looking forward to the next one.

Mel Robbins

Me too. We're gonna be talking supplements. And I also wanna thank you. Thank you for making the time to listen to something that's not only going to improve your health and make you feel better, it'll add years to your life and life to those years. Thank you for being generous with this episode and sharing it with everybody in your life that you care about, because everybody deserves the gift that is Dr. Patrick. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you, as your friend, that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And I know you can. Because if you follow everything, the simple recommendations that Dr. Patrick just laid out to us, your life will get better. So go do it. I'll see you in the very next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the Moment yout Hit Play.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

So, so excited to be here today.

Mel Robbins

I am thrilled that you're here in our new studio. Oh, it's beautiful. Come on in.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Soft lighting. I love you. Okay.

Mel Robbins

Studying nutrition, aging and disease prevention with research experience spanning with research experience spanning mitochondrial metabol. And her graduate research was conducted at St. Jude's Kilt. St. Jude's Children's. St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. Let me say what Dr. Patrick's work has pub. Dr. Patrick's work has been published. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice

SiriusXM podcasts.

Mel Robbins

I'm getting a lot of questions about what I'm using on my face. And luckily you can buy it all at our sponsor, Sephora. First love Westman Atelier Baby Cheeks Lip and Cheek Cream Blush Stick. It melds with my skin for a natural finish. I also love the Caudalie Premier Crew Anti Aging Eye Cream for fine lines and wrinkles. It brightens de puffs, my eyes. Live by it. And the Josie Marin Golden Hour Whipped Argan Oil Refillable Firming Body butter. Ooh, hydrates my skin. Gives it an all over glow. You're going to love it too. Shop now in store or@sephora.com I love spring, especially here in Vermont where it's starting to thaw. Can you feel it? The sun's out longer. You're getting outside to move your body. Spring is a time to refresh the things you use every day. Even something as simple as your socks. And I got to tell you, Bomba's sports socks have been a game changer for my long outdoor walks. They're cushioned exactly where you need it. Wick away sweat. And they don't slide around, so instead of fussing with your socks, you can focus on just moving your body, being outside, and feeling good. Head over to bombas.commel and use code MEL for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B-A-S.commel code MEL at checkout.