A

You're listening to the OCD Stories podcast hosted by me, Stuart Ralph. The OCD Stories is a podcast dedicated to raising awareness and understanding around obsessive compulsive symptoms. I do this for interviewing inspired therapists, psychologists and people who have experienced OCD. Welcome to the OCD stories and welcome to episode 544 of the podcast. And in this one Nicole Sofia kindly agreed to share her OCD story with us. So in particular we talk about suicidal themed OCD getting diagnosed young. Meeting Dan Siegel, who's a famous neuroscientist. Now Nicole mentions the acronym SAM which says stands for SCAN Alert mechanism. I just did some digging and I think Dr. Siegel references it as SCAN Alert Motivate. So just a slight change, but I just wanted to correct that for accuracy. We discussed sexual orientation themed ocd, relationship themed ocd, music, mental compulsions, feeling her feelings, self compassion, making friends of her ocd, expressing through being a singer, songwriter, using humor and much more. So it was great to see Nicole's self compassion for herself and her OCD and the acceptance. It was really nice to see that and her words for you guys around self compassion. And thanks to our podcast partners. Nocd. If OCD is interfering with your life, NOCD can help. They're licensed therapists, specialize in exposure and response prevention therapy. The most proven therapy for OCD with no CD effective treatment that is 100% virtual is available for children and adults with OCD and most members can get started within seven days on average. No hassle, just real science backed help and support between sessions. Begin your journey@nocd.com or I'll put the link in the episode description. So thank you to you guys as always for listening and thank you so much to Nicole for her time. It was great to have her on and hear her story and her journey. Without further ado, here she is. Welcome to the podcast, Nicole.

B

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

A

Yeah, it's great to have you on. So I'd love to hear your OCD story. As little as much detail as you want to give, definitely.

B

So I was diagnosed with OCD when I was 10 years old after having really intense intrusive thoughts, including intrusive thoughts telling me to take my own life. And so I would be like literally running around the house screaming at the top of my lungs with the fear of death and also having the part in my brain being like, well the solution is just kill yourself. And I got, I was having like compulsions with door locking and, yeah, I was having fear. Fear of knives in relation to my intrusive thoughts about suicidality, and was a lot. I think there's a lot of people that have OCD that don't get diagnosed young. And I'm really lucky to be one of the people that did, partially because it was so glaring. Like, it's really hard to ignore your kid running around screaming, having panic attacks. And while that was not fun as a kid, I do think it kind of saved me in a lot of ways. Um, and so I got put in kind of a traditional form of treatment, but it didn't really work for me because I was being told and taught to kind of push away the OCD voice in my head. Um, and I might have just been the therapist. I'm not ragging on all OCD therapists. I'm actually very grateful for OCD therapists, but that didn't work for me. And so nothing really worked until I got the name, the advice to name and befriend the OCD voice in my head. So I happened to meet neuroscientist Dan Siegel when I was, like, 10 or 11, because my mom was at a conference with him, and he was talking to me about ocd. And the acronym he used for ocd, which I might butcher, is sam, which stands for Scan Alert Mechanism, which is the part that he talks about being overactive in brains. I don't remember if it's exactly that, but you can look it up. Um, and so I decided to name my OCD Samantha, because Sam was a little bit too boyish for me. So once I started naming and befriending my ocd, it got easier to approach and deal with. And then for a long time, that was kind of like, enough. I had worked with my ocd, I had found a way to befriend it. It was better. I was like, throughout high school, it gotten better, and even in college. And then I got into my first romantic relationship, and my OCD came back with such. Such loud and enthusiastic opinions about what was going on in my life. And up until this point in my life, I hadn't experienced ocd. And it's more kind of subtle forms. So, like, I hadn't experienced relationship ocd. I hadn't experienced, or I had been experiencing, but actually didn't know that I was having sexual orientation ocd. I'm queer. And it took me way longer to figure that out than I think it would have if I hadn't had ocd. Because my OCD was like, oh, well, you're appropriating queerness, and you haven't struggled enough, and you're just doing it for attention. And what if you don't really like girls? And what if you like. There's all these different things. And, like, now I'm in a lovely, happy relationship with a wonderful woman. But, like, it took a really long time, and not because of any outside factor, like super accepting, family, all the things, but it was just my ocd. And so when I was dealing with all of this new relationship OCD and I was. It was peaking in that way, One of the ways I dealt with it is I started writing a song to my ocd. So music has always been a way that I've processed my world, and I'm a professional musician now, which is awesome and also very interesting to have OCD while your whole job is, like, putting things out into the world and being a public presence and all those things. And it's. Little Sam really loves to try and correct me and work with it, but I remember sitting there in this new relationship being like, I've wanted this for so long, for so long. Why are you coming in and trying to ruin it? Like, this is a good thing? And I was sitting there having that feeling, and I remembered every single moment of OCD and. And every conversation that I had with that voice in my head, and I started writing about it mainly to help myself process. But this song has become so important, and I've had so many people with OCD reach out and talk to me about how good it feels to have something that really relates to the experience. And, like, I didn't know that that was gonna happen when I was writing the song during a panic attack, but I'm so immensely grateful for it. And so I've had, like. In that kind of. That period of time passed. And then I honestly, up until recently, thought my OCD was a lot better than it was because of the very subtle ocd. So I have a lot of looping thoughts and mental compulsions. And again, ironically, whatever it is, I. When I first started falling in love with my current partner, my OCD got so incredibly loud and took her. I was. I'd had, like, multiple meltdowns on the floor, and she's so wonderful and patient, but I was it. I was asking for reassurance constantly, constantly, constantly. And it got to the point where she was, like, not even knowing, but she went, oh, this seems compulsive. I went, oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is a compulsion. And I was looking and tracking and seeing everything that I was like, that's a compulsion. And that's a compulsion. And just because my brain isn't yelling intrusive thoughts at me doesn't mean my OCD isn't present. And so lately with my ocd, I've been learning about like the hyper morality and like the perfectionism, but perfectionism with crazy stakes in my head.

A

Yeah.

B

And all of these different really subtle things about OCD that I didn't get taught when I was younger. And so the practices that had been like, honestly when I booked this interview, the practices that had been working for me are not the practices that I'm using anymore to help treat it. And I'm actually going back into OCD treatment, starting soon to kind of work with these more subtle voices that come up in my day to day life. And I felt kind of nervous to not have it figured out, quote unquote when coming onto the podcast. But I was like, actually, I'm sure plenty of people listening don't have it figured out. And it's helpful to also hear a story that's kind of happening in the middle. And so, yeah, I have. Even with having really hard moments, like, I've had kind of probably the hardest two months that I've had in a really long time. I still have an amazing and really full life. And I think that's what's important for me, for people to know of. Like, I two weeks ago had a panic attack on the floor crying my eyes out. But I have a partner who came in and sat and held me and was there and like, really, I could tell in my bones was so happy to be there and loving me and supporting me. And we also have a great time together. And I don't spend most of our relationship crying on the floor. I'm a professional musician. I do what I love every day. And I'm pursuing a really hard dream. And I'm. Yes. Do I sometimes have spiraling OCD perfectionistic thoughts when I'm trying to write a grant proposal? Absolutely. Did I cry last Thursday doing it? Yeah. But also, like, I'm out here doing it day to day and I'm doing what I love and I'm making music that makes a difference. And I have excellent friends and I get the opportunities to share my story both through my music and in moments like this. And even the other day, like, I was on a different podcast talking about music, but I mentioned that I had ocd. And the person that came up to me who was doing the editing was like, thank you for talking about that. So I just want people to know that, like, even though I have been having a hard time and even though they might be having a hard time, it is possible to have a really lovely and amazing full life, even while being in the middle of having some rough OCD and not being exactly where you want to be with it yet.

A

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your story there. And you know, what you were saying there is, like, you know, in one of the therapies I use is. Is can't speak acceptance and commitment therapy, which is live your life in spite of the thoughts and feelings anyway, make space for the uncomfortable thoughts and feelings and keep moving in the direction you want to go and what matters to you. So, yeah, how do you think about that? Or, like, is that consciously a decision you make of, like, I know I'm struggling today, but I. What, said I was going to go do this or I want to go do this, so I'm going to go do it? Is it that sort of thing?

B

So there's actually two ways before I even processed it. That's actually where music comes in a huge amount in my life, because for me, songwriting has been a way to orient, like, all of the really hard things, like, all of the contradicting, like, oh, I feel happy, but I'm sad, but I shouldn't quite feel like this, and why do I feel like this? And all of the looping thoughts in songwriting, it's like the one space in the one moment where I actually love all those contradictions in my head because I'm like, this is really compelling. So part of the way that I do acceptance and commitment is like, sitting and writing about the feelings and asking myself what's going on and then getting to see. Like, for me, I've had situations that I'll loop on and I'll be like, oh, well, should I have broken up with that person? Should have dated that person? Or da, da, da, da. And I, I have the blessing of coming back to. It's like, oh, well, if I didn't make that choice, I wouldn't have this song. Or if I didn't date them or we didn't break up, I wouldn't have this song. And so, like, that's one place that, for me, I'm really lucky. And it's really easy to see and, like, accept my choices and what's going on in my brain, because it all becomes this, like, sacred fuel for alchemy in my daily life. I'm much worse at it. Like, it's really? But I do acceptance and commitment. Especially, like, just having compassion with myself of being like, wow, my brain is loud right now and wow, I'm being super perfectionistic. Like, I used this grant that I was talking about. I really fully cried on Thursday trying to write a grant because I was receiving help with breaking down the questions and doing things, and I was like, oh, I'm cheating and I'm the worst and all the things. And I. I just let myself for a second, like, have a cry about it. And then accepting that I needed to let the feeling out, I came back, I figured out exactly what I wanted to write for this grant. I was able to do it. So, like, part of my acceptance and commitment is just, like, allowing myself to have big emotions and let them move through me when needed. And it is not my favorite thing to be crying over writing a grant proposal, but I try and let myself, like, by accepting where I'm at, okay, I need to feel this. How can I feel this in a way that's safe for me, that doesn't add more fuel to the fire, but also acknowledges the very real emotions?

A

The.

B

Like, it's important for me to really feel the feelings and move through them as much as I can in a healthy way. And I have my tools to do that. And sometimes it's harder to do than others. It's just like, for me, having compassion and saying, okay, I need to feel this feeling and I need to, like, while the thoughts aren't real, the feelings that come up with them are. And I think being as compassionate with myself and kind to myself during that process as I can be is like, is a huge part of it. Because I find being hard on myself for feeling upset that I'm having disturbing and distressing thoughts just doesn't help anyone. And so I think that's a big part of acceptance of, like, okay, I need to take a moment and I need to give myself some space. Or I truly actually am too worked up right now to do the thing I want to do, and I'm going to take a break and come back. Or I'm going to plan a time where I can do this. Or I'm going to ask someone if it's a really hard thing to, like, sit with me while I go through it. Like, that's also okay and acceptable. And, like, then some. And then there's some times where I'm like, I really have to just get out of my own way and accept and do it. Like, I'm super perfectionistic about sending outreach emails My OCD is like, if you say the wrong thing, it's going to ruin your chance of connecting with this person. And sometimes I just need to sit down and be like, an imperfect email is better than no email at all. And one of the best things that I can come back to that's actually a mentor told me, is like, don't let the perfect get in the way of the good. And I really try and have that with myself. But, yeah, just gentleness with, like, the human parts that come up with the ocd. Because it's not my fault I have OCD and it's not my fault that it's loud.

A

Boom. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really important to share. Compassion is such a important part of recovery because OCD can be torturous and then people can really beat themselves up over having it, which obviously was never their choice to have it. So was compassion like something that came naturally or was it something you had to work on?

B

It was definitely something I had to work on. Um, I think there was a long time where I was just like, I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, but I was like, um, if you just got your shit together more, you wouldn't be feeling like this. Like, why? Especially with, like, it wasn't. I didn't feel that way with the big intrusive thoughts, but with the more subtle ones where it's like, you're an adult. Why are you having a meltdown? Why do you need this reassurance? Like, you should be able to send this email without overthinking it. You should be able to post, like, why do you need these different things? Like, why. Why are you freaking out? Why do you need to think about the decision over and over and over again? Like, you should just be able to do it. And honestly, it was just when I figured out that so many of those things were ocd, I was able to look at them differently because I didn't. I didn't get educated about the more subtle forms because my form was so obvious initially. And so when I was able to start being like, oh, yeah, that's Sam. That's. That's me having ocd. That's a thing. Oh, okay. So now I can recognize that voice and that pattern in this more subtle way. And now I can be more gentle with myself. And I mean, I think the practice of feeling my humanity and just feeling the emotions of it became. Was maybe the first thing I did for practicing self compassion. It's like, whether or not it's quote Unquote, right? That I feel this way. Like, I do feel this way. And so. And I'm not gonna be able to move through it by ignoring it in the same way. Like, I can't work with my OCD by pushing it away or ignoring it. And so then I've been able to have more compassion for myself. And honestly, just the more I've learned about ocd, like, I found out recently it's considered one of the top 10 most debilitating diseases, like, in the world, like, across the board, mental and physical. And I was like, oh, holy shit. I'm living with one of the top 10 most debilitating diseases. That's no small feat. And I'm doing really, really well,

A

all

B

things considered with that. And I think it's just moments like that. And also for me, it's like, how would I treat a child that came up to me feeling like this, if this was, like, 30 years from now, and I have, like, a kid that's my age, how would I treat them? What would I say to them? How would I hold them? And oftentimes, like, kind of separating that for me can make it easier.

A

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. That's a nice way to look at it. And going back to the beginning of your story where you said you were having lots of intrusive thoughts about sort of hurting yourself and killing yourself. I guess just to clarify, for anyone's new to that theme of ocd, you weren't actually suicidal, you were just obsessing that you may be. Right?

B

Yeah, I was. I was just obsessing that I. I may be. And then because of how intense my obsessions were, they were leading to suicidality because they were scary and intense. So, like, my obsessions and fears about death were so intense that I was like, well, if I killed myself, then that part of my brain would be like, then I wouldn't have to hear it anymore. And, like, then I wouldn't have to deal with the unpredictability of death and all of these things. But it was. It was never a genuine desire of mine. Most of it, it was my intrusive thoughts offering a solution to the problem that they had been causing.

A

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And with the sexual orientation worries, obsessions, I may have missed it. What age were you then? And I guess what led you to the point where you were finally at peace with or certain of who you were and your identity?

B

So with the sexual orientation, ocd. So I started having questions about my sexuality when I was, like, 13 or 14. And so I came. I come from a very accepting and inclusive household, which is amazing. And I grew up in an environment that was accepting and inclusive. And so for me, I, at the time, was identifying as bi, but I felt like I was lying and cheating because I was like, oh, well, I still have attraction to men, so therefore I can't actually be queer. And therefore I'm being queer for attention. And therefore. And like, oh, I didn't have to struggle for my queerness because I come from an accepting family. So it's, like, too easy. So it's like, really, if it, like, was hard, I wouldn't be gay in the first place, and I wouldn't have this attraction and whatever the things like. And so it was using kind of the acceptance and the lovely things about my life to be like, oh, you're not valid. And so I actually backtracked and was identifying as straight, which I have so many stories of everyone being like, the closet was glass. And no one believed me when I said that I was straight. But I was identifying as straight kind of up and through the first part of college. And then I really, really fell for one of my best friends who's a girl. And by the time I started writing love songs about her, I went, okay, so I don't think straight girls write love songs about women. And it also, for me was just a reckoning of, like, I don't want to live in a world where people have to suffer to be queer and to be valid in their queerness. And so it became. It was an orientation of, like, what kind of world do I want to live in? And I can either feel guilty for living a life where I've been accepted for who I am or feel immensely grateful and share my story to show people that there are people in places and spaces and there are opportunities to have queer stories that don't revolve around suffering. And I think, for me, like, that was the. The mindset shift of, like, that it doesn't. I don't actually want to believe in a world where I need to suffer to be valid. Um, and I think especially because I. Especially because we need more stories of queer joy and showing it's possible. And then, like, that was the kind of the orientation that helped me get through. And then also just kind of the undeniable evidence. But even still, like, when I was dating women, I'd be like, oh, well, do I really want to be here? Even though, like, quite honestly, more so. My sexuality was questioning whether or not I was attracted to men. Like, After I started dating women, it was like, oh, am I still attracted to men? And I always make this joke, but I do think my sexuality is God or the universe's way of making me and my OCD deal with ambiguity, because it doesn't have a clear definition or answer. And every time I think it does, it starts to change a little bit. And so I think it was a way that the universe said, you're going to have to deal with ambiguity at some point in some way. So. So we might as well make it in the fun of dating. But, yeah, it was those moments that really kind of helped me starting to orient. And now I can clock when it comes up. Cause it so comes up. Even though I've been out for a while and I feel very confident in my identity and I'm, like, dating a woman that I love and all of these things, it still plays the question game all the time.

A

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. Absolutely. And being proud of your story that you. A family that were truly accepting and, you know, that's. Those stories need to be shared too, so. Because that also, I think, helps lower the fear that. Because otherwise, if it's just stories of how people were rejected or hurt, the world starts to be viewed from that lens as that's everyone. And of course, there's probably a lot of those cases, but there's also cases where it wasn't an issue. The family didn't care that he loved the person unconditionally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that. Okay, so with Dan Siegel. So he's a neuroscientist. For anyone listening, I believe that's his title. Yeah, he's. He's wonderful. He's written loads of books on neuroscience and the brain. But when he said, what was it? Name it and make friends of it? Is that what he said?

B

Yeah.

A

What did he mean by that?

B

I actually don't remember if it was him or my godmom that told me to name it and make friends with him, but I think he. He was talking about it, essentially. It was like, the more you push that part away and punish it for being there and punish yourself for having it and try and, like, essentially bully it. The more, like, the more you resist it, the louder it's gonna get. Like, essentially, like, as opposed to being like, wow, I hear that you're really scared right now part. And I hear that you're really trying to protect me, and I appreciate that you're trying to protect me right now, but I'm actually not in danger or instead of Being like, oh, just shut up. I don't want you here and you're the worst and it's horrendous. And like, don't listen, don't listen, don't listen. As opposed to just being like, yeah, I hear you. You're here. And treating it more like, honestly, a kid that's trying to protect you, that doesn't really know what it's doing, and treating it with that sweetness of like, oh, yeah, if a five year old were trying to run my life and keep me safe and it knew about every dangerous thing that an adult knows about but doesn't really know how anything works, it would make up really weird rules to be like, yeah, no, you do have to, like, run into the garage before it closes, otherwise a bad guy's gonna get in. Like, of course that makes sense to that part. And so just the, the acceptance and befriending and having conversations of like, hey, I hear you. I am actually safe right now. Instead of fighting back, which takes a lot of energy, and it just like, just like people, right. As soon as you start arguing with someone, they're more prone to get on the defensive.

A

Yeah.

B

As opposed to just being like, I hear you, and I have compassion for you, but I'm also the adult or the person in the driver's seat. And I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I also know that the way that you're trying to do it isn't helpful. And so let's work together and figure this out. Yeah.

A

Yeah, that's a really good, really good point. Good way I look at it, I like that. So what, what else has helped you on your journey? Anything in particular?

B

Oh, I think honestly the difference of being able to name when something is or isn't OCD helps me tremendously. Like, even just that takes a substantial weight off. I mean, in my general mental health journey, finding movement practices, I love really feeling my feelings. And I think, I think I mentioned that earlier, but, like, honestly, nothing's more helped me more than therapy, medication, songwriting, and making space to feel all the imperfect feelings. Like, I had a while where I had some anger stuck in my body and I was in therapy, but I had this instinct. I was like, I gotta go start boxing and going and hitting punching bags. Helped move through that thing that was in the middle of my stomach and helped me move through it. But yeah, I finding a way, especially with, like, the songwriting, to make it so that all of those feelings that come up in life and all of that confusion becomes, like, interesting and beautiful. And making a space for all of the questions that loop. And like, having somewhere I can go to be like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm looping on a thing. Let's write a song about it. Like, of course I'm going to keep thinking about this thing. And then I have an outlet. And then. Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm a firm believer in finding a great therapist and finding medication that works for you. I was really resistant to medication for a long time because my. My brain loved to tell me that it was cheating. And I got to a point where I was like, I've done everything that I can possibly do and this is actually neurochemical and it's not my fault. And even if it is my fault, I can't get to where I need to be right now. Like, I can't. I can't willpower my way out of this. I need a. I need a boost in order to get to where I can actually work on it and use the tools I have. And it was hearing musicians that I admired and care about talk about their medication journey that like, helped me. And so it's important to me always to be really open and candid about my mental health just because I want people to know that like a. It still really affects me. Which I know is maybe not the happiest thing to hear. Um, but I'm also in the middle of my journey. Like, there are people that are much more recovered than I am. Um, and even in the middle of my journey, my life is pretty great. Yeah. And that it's. It's possible. And that people. I know I'm. I mean, I'm a. I'm a smaller artist right now, but I have people that look up to me and a lot of the time on my platform, like on my social media. Just the other day, I posted a video of me literally crying and sobbing on the bathroom floor that I took because I have a song in the first sentence is I think it's sexy when I cry. Because I was trying to write it to lighten up about the fact that I was feeling horrendous and to give myself space to feel those feelings. And the existence of that song in the mid panic attack made me start laughing. And I pulled out my phone to record it. Cause I was like, I wrote this for these moments. Um, and so just like the importance of other people's honesty has been so, so important in my recovery that I think I. I go out of my way to share it intentionally and to also maybe make it make Sense for people that don't understand. Like, I wrote this song about OCD really to process it for myself. But also, like, so many of my loved ones vaguely got what it was like to be in my brain, but they didn't get it until they heard it. Of like, this is what it. This is what it feels like. And it's not, it's not subtle. And this quirky thing you see me do feels life or death. And this is how I express it. And I just hope to make people feel less alone. And so, and also just being really. I mean, humor has been a huge tool. Like, sometimes my OCDA will say shit. And I'm like, okay. And I'll, I'll. I like, I'll. I walked up to my partner the other day cackling because I was like, you won't believe what my brain just said. And sometimes it's just like, that's all you can do. And those are the easier moments. Like, the harder moments. It's harder to laugh at, but, but like humor and letting people in and also knowing and trusting. Like, I have kind of rules in my important relationships in my life that help me self soothe and mitigate. So it's like, if I'm talking with an adult that's important to me, I don't have to scan for whether or not they're mad. They're a fully grown adult. They get to tell me if they're upset. And so my like, harm OCD and my moral perfectionism ocd. I'm like, if I hurt their feelings, they're going to tell me and we're going to talk about it because that's our agreement. And so just being candid, and I think those are good things even for people without ocd of like, own your own feelings and be responsible. But especially for me, it's like, okay, I can trust people to do their part and if they don't tell me that's not on me, that's on them. And it's also my responsibility to tell people how I'm feeling. But finding those spaces and agreements and also just having people that I can go to that can, that I trust, that won't kind of fuel the fire, but can also kind of idiot check me if I need. Like, I was editing a video actually about my experience with my mental health the other day, and my OCD was like, oh, you're like suicide baiting. And you're doing all these things that are like, you're, you're lying about your experience. And I just sent it to friends. And I was like, can you idiot, check this for me? Because my OCD is saying this and I just need to stop. Like I need two people that I trust to tell me that this is a very valid thing to post. And like, ideally I'd be able to do that for myself. But I also think like, as a public Persona, it's just like nice to have people that are willing to check that I trust and people that I can be vulnerable enough with to call and be like, my OCD is really bad right now. Like I called my, I called my best friend and I was like, my OCD is really bad and they're not an OCD therapist. They weren't able to fix it. But just having people who love you through it and get it makes a tremendous difference. And there are people that will love you through it, even the worst and scariest parts. And we also have to practice loving ourselves through it. And that's kind of one of the hardest things. Things.

A

Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. Absolutely. And it's okay to get it checked once, right? As you say idiot, check it. But yeah, it's only an issue if you. Then you'd be like, oh, I don't quite trust my friend. Let me get another one and another one and another one. Then it's yeah, compulsive, but no, yeah, all good words. So if you could pick up the phone and call the 20 year old you, what would you tell her?

B

Oh, that's so funny. Because 20 was a particularly hard year for me. I was like, just became estranged from my family. I was having a whole, whole experience. I would tell her, you are much more trustworthy than you think. And the mark of a good person is not making mistakes because everyone makes mistakes. It's how you learn from them and grow and repair. I think especially when I was that age, I was so scared of ever hurting anyone, ever. And I realized you it's not a reasonable expectation that you're not going to mess up, but to the mark of a good person and a person that's a good friend and a good partner and a good sibling and all of the things is being able to show up and own that. And so, and I learned that I was trustworthy for both myself and also in my accountability to others for how I handled making mistakes so that I didn't need to be so scared of preempting them. And also that quite honestly, I'm a good person and I don't make that many huge mistakes. And if I Do they are genuinely mistakes like that? I. I'm not malicious. And I would say, I would also tell her your OCD is more subtle than you think, and there are so many facets, and I would recommend looking into them. And I would tell her, you're handling a lot right now, and I'm really proud of you because it's not easy, and you are truly showing up with as much grace as humanly possible, and you have a lot to look forward to and the things that you're scared of, especially in the realm of like messing around and finding out and living and learning, which at that age was terrifying to me because I was scared I was going to make a mistake that was going to ruin my life. The living and learning is actually going to be the thing that saves your life and sets you free and opens up doors for you in ways that you don't know. And it's those imperfections that are gonna be the things that make the songs beautiful and have it so that people relate to you. And, yeah, you. You don't need to protect yourself from yourself like that. You're. You're a safe and you're a trustworthy person, and I'm proud of you for doing the work and getting the help, and you'll continue to do so.

A

Yeah. Nice. That's a good phone call. And you got a billboard where you live. What do you want written on that billboard?

B

Oh, like, as in like a billboard about me or just a billboard in my town?

A

Yeah, in your town. And you could put any message to the world on that billboard.

B

One of my favorite quotes, which is live the questions now the answers will come. And that is something I would especially. I especially come back to myself of. And I would want people to know that.

A

Yeah, I really like that one. I've not heard that before. And then lastly, anything else you wish you could have said or shared today?

B

Just I. For all the people listening that I'm presuming a lot of us have ocd, in case no one's told you recently, it's hard to be in our brains. And you are doing so much better than you think. And truly, you deserve support. And I like as. Just like, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you for being here. I'm proud of you for surviving, being in your brain each day. And I'm proud of you for doing the work to heal kind of at whatever stage you're at, whether this is the first thing you're listening to about OCD or you've been in treatment for years and years and years. You're doing a really good job and I know how hard and scary it can be. And I want you to know that you're not alone and to have as much compassion with yourself as you can and to know that there's hope out there and people that will love you and you'll be if you don't feel it right now, you will be able to love you too. And like, there's it gets better. There's hope.

A

Yeah, I like that. Really good and important message. Well, Nicole, thank you so much for sharing your story. It was really great to hear it and how you know, how you've developed and grown in your journey of acd.

B

Thank you so much for having me and thanks for being patient with my technical difficulties.

A

All good. All good. Thank you for listening to this week's podcast and thank you to our patrons who helped make this episode possible. And if you would like to find out more about Patreon and the rewards and benefits, then there will be a link in the episode description. If you enjoy the OCD Stories podcast and would like to support us, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you listen to the podcast. And thank you to NOCD for supporting our work. If you want to find out more about nocd, you can click the link in the episode description and quick disclaimer Guys, this podcast is not therapy. It is not a replacement for therapy. Please seek treatment from a trained professional and until we speak, take care.