Dave Ramsey

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best selling author, co host of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co host today. So, Rachel, we did that post, that silly thing you wanted to do with acting like we're doing a Netflix documentary or something.

Rachel Cruze

Oh, yeah. We haven't talked about that.

Dave Ramsey

And things gone bananas. You were right. It's a big, big deal. Apparently it's a trend to sit down in the chair and act like you're doing a documentary, right?

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, exactly.

Dave Ramsey

And so we did it and it went on Instagram. It went crazy. Yeah, the numbers are nuts.

Rachel Cruze

Well, like 1.3 million.

Dave Ramsey

And so. Yeah, they brought a million or something.

Rachel Cruze

Oh, yeah, yeah. Over that.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. So the guys, some of them were saying they had read the comments and a huge number of people didn't realize you were my daughter.

Rachel Cruze

Yes. There was a lot of like, well,

Dave Ramsey

10, a huge number ad and a trend. And they actually think there's going to be a Netflix documentary about being Dave

Rachel Cruze

Ramsey's daughter on Facebook. There's not on Facebook specifically. A lot of people are like, oh no, I just canceled my Netflix membership. I'll miss, you know, miss it. And we had to go in and call him like it's a joke. Don't do it. It's just a trend on Instagram. Just a trend.

Dave Ramsey

And I made it a funny thing to do.

Rachel Cruze

I made Dave do it. Sometimes he, you know, he's the anti social media guy. He's our boomer, our resident boomer who we love, but we will. But we get to rope him in.

Dave Ramsey

Sometimes go boomers sooner than some of

Rachel Cruze

the trends and sometimes he says yes, sometimes he says no. But it was a good one. Yeah, it was fun.

Dave Ramsey

Well, that one was fairly innocuous. It wasn't like, you know, you have to be a clown or something to do. We did years ago. Do you remember the. When Twitter was Twitter back in the day, the. Was it the ice water challenge or whatever?

Rachel Cruze

You dump buckets of water on people for als.

Dave Ramsey

For als. You dump. What is it called? It was ice.

Rachel Cruze

The Ice bucket challenge, something like that.

Dave Ramsey

You dump buckets of ice on people and you would play them doing it on. And so we ended up having the fire department come over to the front of our building and our whole team got dumped.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, yeah.

Aaron

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Remember, they rained on us with stuff. That was a pretty good post.

Rachel Cruze

Can you donate to.

Dave Ramsey

That was a trend that I participated in.

Rachel Cruze

That is fair. That was fair.

Dave Ramsey

That was only 30 years ago.

Rachel Cruze

I was gonna say that was like 15 years ago, but that's fine. Roping you in, Dave. We're roping you in.

Dave Ramsey

That's it. Yeah, I'm gonna make me relevant yet. Niecy is in Minneapolis. Hi, Niecy. How are you?

Caller

I'm doing well. How are you?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller

Okay, I'm calling because I am in a position where I don't have to pay any household costs as far as rent goes, and I'm just wondering if I should use my income in this time that I have living rent free to use this time to build my business or use this time to get another job and pay off debt as fast as possible.

Rachel Cruze

How much debt do you have?

Caller

About $108,000.

Rachel Cruze

What does that consist of?

Caller

Student loans, stuff and collections, and a tax bill.

Rachel Cruze

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

Why are. Where are you living? How are you living without rent?

Caller

So I converted my SUV into a tiny camper, and I've been living out of my vehicle to expedite this process. And in the process, when you start working on your debt, everything starts coming into full swing. And the next thing you know, I'm getting garnished. My wages are getting garnished. So now I'm thinking maybe I should just put building the business on hold and get another job. But also, I don't have any rent to pay, so it's kind of like, which road do I take?

Dave Ramsey

Who's garnishing your wages?

Caller

The state. For taxes.

Okay.

Rachel Cruze

For a business that you own.

Caller

No, it's not for a business.

Rachel Cruze

So it's like income taxes. Okay.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Now, how much in tax do you owe the state?

Caller

I owe about 20,000. First state. And about 12,000 for federal.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. And the state is. What's. Who's garnishing you? The federal is not.

Caller

That's correct.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. All right. And what do you make at your current job?

Caller

About 83,000 years.

Dave Ramsey

And that's being garnished?

Caller

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so how quick can you come up with 20,000, making 83 and living in your car? Pretty quick. Pretty quick?

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

I mean, like, quickly. And get rid of the garnishment by paying it off.

Caller

The thing is, I've been attacking my car loan debt.

Dave Ramsey

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to take care of the tax debt, and when you're doing your debt snowball you put IRS and income tax with the state at the top of the list because of what you're experiencing. And so we're going to, we're going to get rid of the state debt as soon as possible. So 83,000. So $7,000 a month. So you're coming home with five or six thousand dollars a month and you've got very little.

Caller

I'm coming, I'm down to like about 35,000 or 35,500 because of the garnishment.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. How much are they taking?

Caller

It's about 276, $276 a week.

Dave Ramsey

Oh, okay. Thousand dollars a month. Okay, well, in 20 months that'll be gone if you don't do anything. But we need to do something and get rid of it as soon as possible. So the question is, do I work a side job or a side business?

Caller

The question is, do I work a side job or continue letting them garnish me, Continue paying off my car and then use this time to start my business as well.

Dave Ramsey

No, you don't start a business right now. No. You need to work as many hours as you can work getting paid money quickly, as much money as you can make morally. And you start with this tax debt and clear it first before you clear the car, and then you clear the, then you clear the irs and then you work your debt snowball from there. And when you get back on your feet financially and you've got the IRS and the state off of you and the place to live, then you get a place to live. Live. Yeah, yeah, you've been, you were very nonchalant about the fact that you're living in your car. But I don't, but I don't want you there for long.

Rachel Cruze

No.

Caller

Yeah, it's not a, it's not a long term plan.

I definitely plan on saving for a down payment for a house.

Dave Ramsey

You need to go rent one bedroom cheap apartment.

Caller

I'll rent, I'll rent after my car. So the house.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. And I would want to be out of, I mean, I would want you out of that situation in a couple of months. Like if you can go get.

Dave Ramsey

We don't need to go into Minneapolis in the winter.

Rachel Cruze

Right.

Dave Ramsey

You need in the, in the back of the suv. So I want you to clear this debt as soon as possible, working extra and throw 3, 4, $5,000 a month because all you do is work at this, at this state debt and then, then go after the IRS and then get you, and somewhere in there, get you an apartment and get out of the car and.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Because if they're making $83,000 a year, you can live in an apartment and you can clear this debt and work side jobs.

Caller

Well.

Rachel Cruze

And you have 3500 left. So if you threw an extra 2000, lived on 1500 with food and the car payment. Right. And then worked extra, you could technically put 5,000.

Dave Ramsey

Yep.

Rachel Cruze

Away per month.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. And that'd be four months. You'll be done.

Rachel Cruze

Yep.

Dave Ramsey

That's the direction.

Rachel Cruze

I'm sorry, Nisi.

Dave Ramsey

Wow. You're after it, kiddo. Get after it. I love it. I appreciate your willingness to sacrifice like this, but let's have a plan. So we. That this is temporary. Definitely.

Caller

In our.

Dave Ramsey

In our past, not in our present anymore.

Caller

Foreign.

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Dave Ramsey

Jacob is in Canada. Hi, Jacob. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Caller

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm very appreciative.

Dave Ramsey

What's up?

Caller

So my question was, should I let my fiance's family move into our newly purchased home even though she's been manipulative her whole life? Her. The family. Her mom.

Rachel Cruze

Her mom's been manipulative her whole life? Is that what you said?

Caller

Yeah.

Yes.

Rachel Cruze

So you're not a fan of this?

Caller

No. I love my fiance dearly.

Rachel Cruze

Yes.

Caller

And does she. I see how much it just affects her.

Rachel Cruze

And does she recognize that?

Caller

Yes, she does. She does recognize it. And I think for her right now, it's just kind of grieving that we might lose her family, like, we might have to draw a boundary to a point where we don't really see them.

Dave Ramsey

If your family is only going to have relationship with you because of what they can get from you, they've already abandoned you.

Caller

Yeah. Which, you know, I try to let my fiance know. And it's just. We're getting to a point where if

Dave Ramsey

you have to pay for a relationship, it's called prostitution.

Rachel Cruze

Okay.

Caller

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. And so you guys are saying then if it does get to a point where, you know, they just got a notice in the mail that they're going to be kicked out tomorrow.

Dave Ramsey

You didn't do that.

Caller

And. Yeah, no, I know. It's been their decisions. They've been kind of struggling, and I feel like they won't take any help.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. They don't work much.

Caller

Yeah, yeah. So you would recommend then just, you know, set the boundary and they can react however they want to react, and

Dave Ramsey

you can't control their reaction. You can predict it.

Caller

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

And Jacob, they've come to you all. They've said, we're. We're. Can we. Can we move in? Like, they've.

Caller

They haven't. But we're like, 99 sure it's going to come. They got the letter. They've been talking about it. She's been making jokes like, oh, we could just stay in your backyard, you know, not really funny, but tomorrow's the day.

Rachel Cruze

Well, I don't think then a boundary has to be set until the question is asked.

Dave Ramsey

So I wouldn't. I wouldn't advance the boundary.

Rachel Cruze

That's right.

Dave Ramsey

And just say, you know, thanks for asking. We're going to be cheering for you. We love you. We'll try to do some other stuff to coach you and help you, but moving in with us really isn't something we're able to do. I'm sorry.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

And by the way, when you're setting the boundary, the fewer words that you use, the more powerful it is.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

Don't go into a lengthy explanation about family dysfunction or anything else. Just go, you know, we talked about this, and we're just not able to do it. I'm so sorry, but we love you.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

We're coaching. We're cheering for you. We want you to win. And do you got. Do you have any money? Are you doing well financially?

Caller

We're doing pretty well financially. Like, right now, we're in that. We're about to finish up the renos. We'll be a little low on cash, but we both have Jobs, you know, we're good at budget.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so you don't have any cash to like give him $1,000 to help them with the deposit on the next place or something like that?

Caller

No, no, I would not be able to help her with first in or last out or anything like that.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, that's what I was asking. All right.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

And Jacob, buying a house with someone you're not married to is really a dumb idea. You guys should get married yesterday.

Caller

I would agree. We're getting.

Dave Ramsey

Don't argue with me. Just go get married.

Caller

Can I give you one reason you can totally shut me down?

Rachel Cruze

Yes. Yes, you can.

Caller

We're getting married in September. The venue's all booked. And the reason we went with the house earlier than we would have liked to is because it was a private sale. My cousin had owned the house previously. It was a good deal. That was kind of the idea behind that, but I agree.

Dave Ramsey

Except you don't agree. But yeah, okay.

Rachel Cruze

Hey, at least they have a venue and a date.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, In September. I'll be here.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, we're moving. We're moving that way.

Dave Ramsey

The reason I bring that up too is it does change the discussion too. If it's your mother in law versus your fiance's mother. That's a, that's a little, little change there. My girlfriend who lives with me, who I'm planning to marry. Parents have trouble versus who I am different than my in laws have trouble. Yeah, that's a different thing.

Rachel Cruze

It is, but also the result will be the same.

Dave Ramsey

The answer is the same, but how you think about it is different. So in other words, if you were married, I would suggest that you don't answer the question when it comes that she answers the question. Because if you tell her mother no, you're going to be the bad guy forever and ever. The evil man that stole her daughter. And that is selfish and won't share everything with our dysfunctional family. But she needs to handle her blood. That's crazy. And she does anyway. Probably. But if I'm the boyfriend, I'm just gonna be like, what do I care if you're mad, Just be mad. You know, I'm a husband. I'm a little more worried about the long term relationship aspects of it.

Rachel Cruze

Sure, sure.

Dave Ramsey

And I know we're planning to be a husband next week, but we're not a husband yet, so.

Rachel Cruze

And that's the hard. That's one of the hardest parts of the money. Dysfunction with family and especially we're seeing more and more Grown kids with their, with their aging parents. You know what I mean? And it is a, that's such a hard place to be that if you have the relation, the relational equity and the means to be able to help and you choose to, that's beautiful and wonderful if that's what you want, you know, but this idea that I have to, that it's now my responsibility to take care of them when they've not been responsible adults, we're seeing that, I feel like more and more.

Dave Ramsey

Oh calls.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

And you know, again, boundaries are a decision. But here's the thing. You can. Henry Cloud talks about that in the famous book that is his best selling book of all of his bestsellers called Boundaries and. But if you set a boundary with someone that doesn't like boundaries, please expect them to be pissed. 100% chance they're not gonna like it because, you know, you don't have to be mean, but I mean, they don't like the word no because they feel entitled. They feel like you owe them something because of blood, that you have to live. I'm going to live in your backyard. No, you're not either.

Rachel Cruze

Passive aggressive.

Dave Ramsey

Not funny. I agree with him. Not funny.

Rachel Cruze

Throwing that out there, that was pretty funny.

Dave Ramsey

Not funny. Not funny.

Caller

Funny.

Rachel Cruze

I'm trying to be funny, but not funny.

Dave Ramsey

Jake is in Pensacola. Hey, Jake, what's up?

Caller

Hey guys, thanks for having me on. How are you doing?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Caller

So my wife and I just recently started saving for her to go to PA school and that's about three years out from now. And what we've been doing is stacking cash into a money market account. And I want to know if we're doing the right thing by doing that.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, that or High yield savings is fine. What's your rate on it?

Caller

Yeah, it's 3%. That's what I found through Fidelity.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. Yeah, you might do a little better than that with Fairwinds Credit Union. You might check their, their high yield savings. It might be a little better, but it's not, it's not going to be like 5% better or something. So here's the thing. How much are we going to save total in the next four years for this?

Caller

I want to save. We both want to save around $90,000. That's a little bit overshooting for the nearest school, but I don't know if our expenses are going to be that much higher.

Dave Ramsey

Gotcha, Gotcha. So the reason that she will have $90,000 and get to go to school without debt is because you put $90,000 in the account, not because of the rate of return.

Caller

Okay. Yes, sir.

Dave Ramsey

Because 3% on $50,000. The middle range of this, which would be like, two years before you get there. Okay, so 3% of that is $1,500. $1,500 does not mean she gets to go to school. In other words, if you got 0%, it'd be real close to getting 3.

Caller

I see what you're saying. That does make sense.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. It's not. It's mathematically not the reason.

Rachel Cruze

Too short of a time frame to probably put in the market.

Dave Ramsey

If you wanted to put some of it in a growth stock mutual fund and maybe an s and P500 or something, you could. But it could go down. That portion could go down. But again, if $50,000 was in there and it went down 10%, which would be unheard of, very rare, then you would have lost $5,000. And that won't keep her from going to school.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

So the investment vehicle is not gonna make her go to school or keep her from going to school unless you gamble it 100% on something stupid like crypto or a hand of poker or something dumb like that. Or DraftKings, you know, which. We're not discussing any of those things without laughing.

Caller

Foreign.

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Dave Ramsey

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Caller

I'm great. How are you?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller

Hi. Thank you for taking my call and I have lots of respect for you. Thank you so much.

Dave Ramsey

Thank you.

Caller

Uh huh. So my question to you is, I have a real estate property. It's a townhouse that I bought a few years ago. I paid cash so there's no mortgage on it. I have credit card debt of 50,000 and a student loan of 40,000. So the real estate is worth about 200 grand. So my question to you is, should I sell that property for 200,000 and then use that to pay my credit card and my student loan?

Dave Ramsey

What's your household income?

Caller

My salary is 70,000, but I rent my a couple of the rooms in my house. So it brings me up to like

Dave Ramsey

100 and 110,000 including the rent on the townhouse.

Caller

Huh.

Dave Ramsey

Okay.

Caller

All right.

Dave Ramsey

So you make 110, you owe 90 and you have this $200,000 paid for investment.

Caller

Correct.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. Number one, I love the investment. I think it's great. And you like it. I can tell by the way you talk about it.

Caller

I do.

Dave Ramsey

You don't want to sell it. Okay.

Caller

No.

Dave Ramsey

So the trade off is that you're going to have to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. No vacations, no eating out and do anything you can to earn some extra money. You're already doing a lot of things to earn extra money, but anything you can do to get these debts knocked out fairly quickly to make keeping the investment make sense. If you're going to be 10 years wandering through this debt, it doesn't make sense. You need to sell it. But if you're going to say, I'm going to knock this out $30,000 a year and be done in three years or $45,000 a year and be done in two years, which would be like $4,000 a month or $3,000 a month.

Rachel Cruze

Could you do that?

Caller

Yeah, yeah, I should be able to.

Dave Ramsey

If you do that, then I'd probably try to hang on to it because it sounds like a good piece of property.

Caller

Yeah, I get 1750 per month.

Dave Ramsey

That's a good return on 200k. That's good. That's a good cash on cash return. Good.

Caller

I'm doing bookkeeping on the side too, so I didn't even count that salary. That.

Dave Ramsey

So what's the most you could throw at this debt per month right now? If you just really tighten the budget?

Caller

If you're telling me that I can do $3,000 a month, then I'm going to do that.

Dave Ramsey

Well, I'm just asking, have you looked at your budget?

Caller

I have. I mean, that other than my credit cards, that's it. I have no car payment. I have nothing else. My mortg, where I live, that's the only thing. Which is $2,000 a month.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. So I'm saying when you get on everydollar and download it tonight and lay it out, you're a bookkeeper, you're smart. I can tell by talking to you that you know your numbers. And so what we're looking for is three to $4,000 a month. And if you can find that and commit to doing that, then keeping the investment makes sense because you're going to be done in either $4,000 is done in two years, $3,000 is done in three years.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

See, 36 times three is going to knock your 90 out. Or four times 12 is 48 a year, and that's 90 in two years. Okay.

Caller

Okay. I've been doing the snow. The snow effect.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, I would do that.

Caller

So I've been.

Dave Ramsey

I would do that and throw it at this. But you've just got the two debts, right?

Caller

Yeah. Yes, my credit card and my loan. My student loan.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. And so knock the credit card. Is the credit cards a smaller one? Right?

Caller

Well, there's different credit cards.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. So, yeah, that I list the credit cards out, smallest to largest and attack them in that order. And that's going to put the student loan at the bottom, which actually ends up mathematically correct as well. So that's good. Got that going for us. But yeah, I, I think you're amazing and I think you can do this, but that, that the answer to your question is it does not make sense to keep the investment property and drag this debt out time. It does make sense. If you like the investment property and want to sacrifice and do three to four thousand dollars a month on this debt, be done in anywhere from two to three years and keep the investment property, that does make sense.

Rachel Cruze

But you would tell someone if they had $200,000 in an index fund to cash it out, cash out part of it to pay off the debt.

Dave Ramsey

I would, but that's a lot easier transaction than real estate and a less expensive transaction. And this is a known, this piece of real estate's a known factor. Of course that's a known factor too, but. Yeah, but that's very liquid is what I'm saying. Yeah, you just gotta, you just gotta push one button and that money shows up in your account.

Sponsor

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Dave Ramsey

With real estate, you gotta sell it, you're pay brokerage fees and then later you're going to reinvest, you're going to pay a bunch of other fees. And so there's a lot of gyration, a lot of gyration that goes on with real estate.

Rachel Cruze

And the point is too, that she enjoys it because we do talk to some people and they have an extra property and it's a headache and they don't enjoy it. So you're like, yeah, if you want to take 200, throw 100 at your debt, take the other hundred, stick it in an index fund and just let it ride and you know, be more of that passive investor, go that direction.

Dave Ramsey

Exactly.

Rachel Cruze

But if you love real estate and that's part of how you want your long term play. Keeping that good point.

Dave Ramsey

Brett's in Kansas City. Hey Brett.

Caller

Hey Dave. How are you?

Dave Ramsey

Good, man. What's up?

Caller

Hey, yeah, just question. So recently just went through a divorce. Finally got all our financial support, all that stuff kind of figured out. In the next few months I'm going to be getting some equity in the house I used to live in. And I'm curious, since she's going to be getting some of my retirement, I'm wondering, should I put that money back into my retirement or should I use that equity to pay off my bills, some of the loans, lawyer fees and then that would pretty much put me debt free.

Dave Ramsey

How much is she getting from your 401k?

Caller

Well, it's capers. I'm in the public school system here in here.

Dave Ramsey

How much is she getting from?

Caller

It's going to be about half. I've worked for 20 years and we've been married 17 of that.

Dave Ramsey

So does it have A dollar amount on it.

Caller

I have 87,000 in there right now.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so she's getting 43,000?

Caller

Roughly, yes. Okay.

Dave Ramsey

And how much equity are you getting out of the house?

Caller

About 60,000.

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

Why didn't you leave your 401k alone and take less out of the house?

Caller

That was just part of the deal. I know why we came to during mediation.

Dave Ramsey

Why a bad idea.

Rachel Cruze

Well, I can't go back now.

Dave Ramsey

You could hypothetically.

Rachel Cruze

Brett, how much is all the bills, the lawyer's fees, debt, everything

Caller

about, let me see, I got the biggest ones. A vehicle that I got in divorce that she basically kind of gave me or that we came to an agreement on. 47, right. About 50.

Dave Ramsey

What's the, what's the, what's the car worth?

Caller

The car is probably worth 35. Okay.

Dave Ramsey

And you don't need it, right?

Caller

I have two vehicles. One's paid off and it's super old and it's always in the shop getting repaired. And basically we bought a truck about a month before we separated. So we don't. I mean it's 30. I owe 30,000 on it.

Rachel Cruze

Is that. And that's part of the 50?

Caller

That's part of the 50. Yes.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, I'd sell the truck and. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Throw some of the money at the difference.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

And if you need to buy, you know, a ten thousand dollar car with some of the cash, that'll be fine. But I'd get out of that truck debt instead of paying it off and keeping it. What's your, what's your income?

Caller

My main job, I make about 87,500 and then I make about 25,000 and just some other side stuff that I do.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, I don't think you go back and change it. Like I said originally, I think you stay with the deal. You got, take the cash. You become debt free by getting rid of the truck and you're not got enough to do much else with. Build an emergency fund. By the time you pay off everything, there's not much left.

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Dave Ramsey

Tari is in Charlotte. Hey, Tari, what's up?

Caller

How you doing, sir?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Caller

Okay, so I'm trying to clean up my debt. I'm trying to clean up my debt. And so a debt collector, they sold it off to another debt collector. So I called them up and tried to basically settle the debt. So they told me they can't collect on it. And it's reached a point of some. I can't. I can't remember the term he used, but they said that they can't collect on it or they don't report on it to the credit bureaus. And I'm trying to get it off my. Off my credit report.

Dave Ramsey

The debt collector that bought the bad debt said he can't collect on it.

Caller

Yeah, he can't collect on it.

Dave Ramsey

And you offered him money and he didn't want the money.

Caller

Yeah, I tried to settle. I tried to settle the debt and he said it's the point of statute limitation or something.

Dave Ramsey

He said, exactly. It's past the statute of limitations. That is so unusual. That's true. Right, but it's so unusual that a debt collector would actually tell you that instead of just take your money.

Caller

Right. So now my thing is, how do I tackle it and get that off? I'm trying to settle it and get that.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. First thing I would do is call the debt collector back and ask for a. An email from him saying in writing what he told you on the phone.

Caller

Okay. I mean, I'm so.

So.

So I did call him back and what they said was he said, our team handle it. Solid. Solid in the dispute.

Dave Ramsey

Our team will handle it.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

She was like, no, I'm asking you to send me an it. Call him by. I'm asking you to send me an email saying that you cannot collect this debt because it is past the statute of limitations. I'm asking you to me saying that that's what I want him to do, number one. Then number two, you've got to write to. And there's an email place to do it on each of the websites. All three credit bureaus.

Caller

Right, right.

Dave Ramsey

Okay.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

And what you do is you say this particular debt, I am disputing it as being valid. Don't go into detail. Don't mention statute of limitations. Just say, I dispute this debt now. And according to. And you may want to go back and play this on the podcast later. Play it back. According to the Federal Fair Credit Reporting act, you have. This is your verbiage in the letter. You have 30 days to prove the validity of this debt or to completely remove the entry from my bureau.

Caller

Exactly, exactly.

Dave Ramsey

And you send that. I would send that by email if they've got a place on their site. And I also would send it in hard copy letter form, certified mail or FedEx or something where you can get proof of delivery on when the 30 days starts.

Caller

Okay, because. Because all the other credit, you know, I'm saying I was able to, you know, settle on or this one that they said they couldn't. They couldn't really. They don't report or they don't. They don't report on it, nor do they. Whatever. Whatever.

Dave Ramsey

Well, he can't collect on it because it's past the statute of limitations. And if it found out later that they collected on something that they're not allowed to by law, they could get in trouble. But most of the time these guys are so scummy, they don't care. They take your money anyway. So I'm a little shocked, but it's okay coming out in your favor. So, yeah, you need to send a certified letter. Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices act and Federal Fair Credit Reporting act is the federal two federal law that dictate how this is handled. And when you dispute the validity of a debt on your credit Bureau, they have 30 days to prove it or remove it. Now, for the rest of you out there, not for this guy, they will not be able to prove it in 30 days on any of your debts, even if they're valid. Because if they write to bank of America, bank of America is not going to get back to them for 30 days. And so you could get that blown off your credit bureau. And there are people that teach that as a way to, quote, clean up your credit. The problem is it doesn't work because it will get removed from your credit bureau report. But bank of America or whoever downloads in batches to all three credit bureaus at least once a quarter. And so about 120 days from now, you're going to see the thing pop back up on your credit bureau.

Rachel Cruze

If it's not been passed, if it's

Dave Ramsey

not a valid, if it's not an invalid debt, it's going to come back. You can knock it off for a minute, but it's going to come back. In this case, it sounds like these guys are not going to report it again, but if you remove it and they re report that they have this out for collections, it'll show back up on there again.

Rachel Cruze

How long does it take for the statute of limitations to.

Dave Ramsey

Statute of limitations on a debt is different in every state, but in his state, a lot of them are 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years. Somewhere in there, everything comes off of your credit bureau report every seven years from date of last activity. The problem is if bank of America in this example, re reports that's activity and it starts the seven years over again. So even though you didn't pay anything on it, even though you didn't actually have any activity on the account, they can start the seven years over again and keep you in limbo for freaking ever. So you cannot get out of paying these debts unless someone does what this guy's saying is happening with him, which is a very unusual circumstance that he called with today. But most folks out there listening, you're going to have to go get those things settled and you're going to have to get them paid off. You don't get your credit bureau cleaned up until you clean up the actual debt, because it's just going to pop back on there and you're going to see it and it's going to hang out seven years. A Chapter 7 bankruptcy is the only thing that stays longer than seven years. It stays on 10 years. And an interesting fact with that is none of the loan applications or applications that you fill out for other things say, have you filed bankruptcy in the last 10 years. They say, have you ever filed bankruptcy? And so even if my Chapter 7 bankruptcy from 1988 no longer shows on my credit bureau report, if I answer no, I have never filed bankruptcy because you can't see it on my credit bureau report. And someone does business with me due to me answering that question, that's called criminal fraud. I lied to get to do business. So don't do that. It's a bad idea.

Rachel Cruze

Be honest.

Dave Ramsey

So you tell the truth. And so since I filed bankruptcy in 1988, the year Rachel was born, for the rest of my life, I get to answer that Question. Yes, I filed bankruptcy. What were the dates? It's like filling out one of those medical forms. Have you ever had an operation? Yes, in 1982, I had one. Still got to fill it out because they're still going to find it. And, you know, for your life insurance application or whatever it is, you still got to put all the stupid medical stuff in there. Anything, any hangnail that's ever happened has to show up. And that's the way this stuff is.

Rachel Cruze

And by the way, interesting reason to almost avoid it so it doesn't just follow you your whole life.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, hello.

Rachel Cruze

Like, hello, I know after like a financial. Been divorced financially, you can recover and all.

Dave Ramsey

Have you ever been divorced? If you have, the answer is yes. Not lately, it's not. Lately, that's not the answer. You know, not 20 years ago. That's not the answer. The answer is yes, you know, that's it. And it's that simple. So you know this stuff, these decisions are big life decisions.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. And Tari brings up a good point, too. Just to remind everyone, you can check your credit report for free. And you should once a year. Yes.

Dave Ramsey

And you should.

Rachel Cruze

The Equifax TransUnion. You can go to these websites.

Dave Ramsey

And you ought to also freeze your credit.

Rachel Cruze

Yes. And freeze your children's credit.

Dave Ramsey

We did. Well, and that's a pain in the butt. I had to go in and just rip people shred to get it. But I froze all of theirs when they were minors, when they first came out with a law allowing you to freeze it. And what freezing it does is if someone bothers to check your credit before they issue a debt that is not. That's like an identity theft thing, as an example. Then they would deny the credit because the credit bureau's frozen. And so they would say, oh, this person's not really applying for that. But the problem is about 9 out of 10 credit cards are issued without checking credit. So that's why a dead person and dogs get credit cards. And a guy in West Virginia one time sent me a copy of his credit card and he had applied for the credit card in the name of bucknekid.

Rachel Cruze

Oh, Lord.

Dave Ramsey

And they issued the card.

Rachel Cruze

Stop.

Dave Ramsey

Visa issued to Buck Naked.

Rachel Cruze

Stop. Unbelievable.

Dave Ramsey

Love it.

Rachel Cruze

That's a good segment. The craziest thing.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Craziest things that have ever happened. Yep.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Frou Frou the Poodle got one, too, and he'd been dead three years before he got his.

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Dave Ramsey

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz is my co host today. James is in Kansas City. Hi, James.

Caller

Hey, How y' all doing today?

Dave Ramsey

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Caller

Good.

So just.

I'll shoot you the quick question here. So basically I work for a university and I'm due to be laid off here in about a year due to the school folding into another here in the area. I've got no debt. I've got a year's worth of emergency fund and I'm also due to get some severance and retention bonuses of all the school kind of, you know, goes towards closing here within a year. My question is, should I start really looking hard for a, you know, a new job right now or should I kind of wait, collect those bonuses and see where I'm at, you know, within about a year?

Dave Ramsey

So the bonuses and the severance are going to amount to how much money about after taxes.

Caller

I've done the math. It's about 24,000 altogether.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, and what do you make?

Caller

Right Now I make 70. About 70,000 a year.

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

And what do you do? You're a professor?

Caller

I work as a. Yeah. No, I'm actually a compliance coordinator for the financial business office.

Dave Ramsey

Okay.

Caller

All right.

Dave Ramsey

And so what will you likely go to? What's your new career going to be? Your new job? Same thing.

Caller

Well, well, I've been thinking about that. There's also some different, you Know whether I work for maybe a bank or a financial, like credit union or something along those lines where I get back into compliance or risk management, I'm kind of, kind of on the fence with it.

Dave Ramsey

With probably a lot more money there, isn't there?

Caller

100% by far.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so let's pretend that you found a new job making 120,000 today, and they want you to start today. Well, you would take that because 70 plus 24 is less than 120.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Let's pretend you found another job making 70. I would not take that until the last day of my other job, of my current job, because I would want to get all the bonuses. But I think you're probably going to move up in pay as you shift the type of compliance work that you're doing so much that this bonus is not going to be worth sticking around for.

Caller

I think you're right.

Dave Ramsey

I think that's the math. I'm gonna let math drive it, but go out there and start poking around.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. Have you talked to anybody, James? Just in that industry and just kind of have a feel out of how easy it could be to get your foot in the door somewhere.

Caller

Yeah, I've done some poking around. It's definitely gonna be a lot harder. I actually used to work in the banking industry. I want to maybe jump back in. And I know you guys say, you know, don't just throw applications out there. So I'm really trying to hit my connections, you know, to see, to see kind of what I can get right now. I haven't had a lot of hits, but I know the job market is slow.

Dave Ramsey

Ever had any history in the securities side of like working for a broker, dealer or something on that side of compliance?

Caller

I have not, actually, but it's worth looking into.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. It pays better than banks. That's why I was asking. Sure, but, but, but if you've had the history in the bank and you can get your foot in the door, I don't care. But I'm actually thinking you're probably going to go move to six figures. Does that sound right?

Caller

It does, it does. It just. It takes a lot of, of course. Effort. Yeah, obviously.

Dave Ramsey

But why not, why not work on it now and if you could get six figures starting next month, then we would just go ahead and say goodbye.

Caller

Yeah, I think that's fair.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. So let's do that and I'll send you a copy of Coleman's book Proximity Principle, which is what you're referring to, to use your connections to get in the Door on things for sure.

Rachel Cruze

And the wisdom of, I mean, he's at the luxury of just say it gets down to the wire. He's got three months or so of pay, plus a year, big emergency fund. Nothing's on fire right now, you know, you know the end is coming. So you want to start having these conversations, but in a great way is you, you know, if you have two or three options ahead of you, you get to kind of make that decision of what's best for you. You get options. There's no urgency of, oh gosh, we have to start making an income. Cause we get some of those calls and it's like you gotta go, you gotta down scroll, start doing anything.

Dave Ramsey

Well, and when you're desperate, you don't interview as well.

Rachel Cruze

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

You know, your body language is different, your voice tone is different, you walk in the door different, you feel different. They can feel it in the air that you're scratching and clawing at this. And if you're like, yeah, I'd like to do this, it looks good. If it's a good fit, I'll, you know, let's talk about it. And is this a good partnership? And that's a completely different interview.

Rachel Cruze

Yep, for sure. And in this there's nothing. I mean, there's no moral obligation by any means to stay, but is there any level of loyalty of hey, I'm going to finish out this, I'm going

Dave Ramsey

to go down with the ship. A college that went out of business, I don't know, because they didn't follow my compliance guidelines and didn't stay financially solvent.

Rachel Cruze

Could be that too. Yep.

Dave Ramsey

Oh my gosh. Donald is in San Antonio. Hey, Donald, what's up?

Caller

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call.

Dave Ramsey

Sure. How can we help?

Caller

So me and my wife are retired. We're on baby step seven and we are still doing the envelope system. And my question is, are we better off? Because a lot of the envelopes just build like the ones we have for car repair and Dr. Co pays and debt bills and all that.

They kind of just sit there and

we beat that off just letting that sitting in our IRAs instead of taking that money out every month.

Rachel Cruze

Well, I would at least probably put it, Donald, in just to a high yield savings account. I would put it somewhere. So yeah, to your point that it's kind of growing.

Dave Ramsey

If it's building up too much, you've got too much allocated to the category. Okay, So I mean, if you've got $5,000 in your vet bill envelope, your dog's not been sick. You know, I mean, you see what I'm saying. You got $5,000 built up in your car repair envelope. You've over budgeted for car repairs. And so that's, you know, you should not have big buildups in there anyway. But a lot of people, including both of us, have gone to just very few or no envelopes and instead are just using the everydollar budget and using a sinking fund approach inside which is a little miniature savings account, like a miniature envelope per category inside your every dollar budget. And it explains where your money is. And a lot of people are using that digitally now rather than the actual physical cash in the envelope. My wife still carries a couple of envelopes. She still does that. But everything else we do at the Ramsey's is now done with debit card and with a budget system. And it is at your house too, right?

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. Cash has gotten unlimited.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. But you're right. What ends up happening is that you've got the money to do stuff and you just do it. And then you look up and go, God, that Envelope's got like $6,000 in it. And I'm walking around with this in cash, you know, so. No, that you.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. And I would say the envelope system, the purpose of it is to control your spending, to know what's going on per category and to have a level of real life accountability that when there's no money in the envelope, we stop spending in this category. So people that are just starting to budget, you know, I think it still is for two or three months. Just to sit on groceries. Yeah. On a couple of things. Because again, it kind of just gets you back into this rhythm of knowing exactly what you have because it's physical money right there. And so that's really the purpose of the envelope system. But Donald, you guys are baby step seven. You know, the main reason for it is I think you guys have probably outgrown that main reason. So if you put everything into, you know, a Fair Winds Credit Union High Yield savings account, you'd be great. You would be fine.

Dave Ramsey

You would not be doing anything that'll work just fine. The interesting thing is, by the way, for those of you that want to try this or you're just getting started, that the actual research says that when you spend cash, when you hand Uncle Benjamin Franklin over to the cashier at the grocery store, it activates the pain centers of the brain. It hurts to spend cash. It does not activate the pain centers of the brain to hand them a piece of plastic stick. So you spend More. As your business grows, everything becomes more complex. There was a time when Ramsey Solutions had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business. We wasted too much time chasing information instead of making decisions. That's why we got NetSuite. NetSuite brings your financials, inventory, CRM and more together in one place. More than 43,000 businesses trust NetSuite, including Ramsey. And now they're taking the next step with NetSuite Next, making it easier to put AI to work across your entire business. NetSuite Next helps you make the most of your time automating routine work like forecasting demand and following up on overdue accounts. With NetSuite Next, AI is built into everything you do, so you can ask it questions, just like when you're talking to a member of your team. And right now, you can try NetSuite next for free. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to NetSuite AI Ramsey. That's NetSuite AI Ramsey. Offense is investing, defense is insurance. The right kinds at the right cost. You need both offense and defense to win the game. By the way, the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if some kind of disaster hits. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com checkup to get the free coverage checkup and find out if you have the right kinds of protection at the right cost. Julian is in Houston. Hi Julian, how are you?

Caller

Good.

How you doing?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller

Okay, so I have my. My question is I currently have a truck. Oh, 38,800. My payoff. There's a dealer interested in purchasing it for 44,000. My question now is I do have a side hustle that I do monthly when I'm off from my work. My side hustle brings me in roughly around 1300-2000 dollars per month. My truck monthly I'm paying average about a thousand dollars with entrance. My diesel monthly is about $400.

Dave Ramsey

Is the side hustle have something to do with your truck?

Caller

Yes, sir. Because my side hustle, I do pressure washing so I need to tow my trailer with my water totes containers and chemicals.

Dave Ramsey

If you could tow your trailer with a $10,000 truck.

Caller

Right, that was my question. Now should I sell my truck?

Dave Ramsey

Yes.

Caller

Buy something cheaper?

Dave Ramsey

Yes.

Caller

Or should I sell my truck and just get a daily where I don't have to do side hustles no more?

Rachel Cruze

Oh, Because. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Because. Because your side hustle basically paid for your truck. For the payment, the insurance, the gas.

Dave Ramsey

Do you, I mean, have you got other debt?

Caller

Not really, no.

Dave Ramsey

What's your income at your main gig?

Caller

My, my main job, I'm making an estimate about $62,000 and BI weekly. After taxes and insurance, I'm making about 1900.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. Okay. There's two questions. Should I continue my side hustle and should I sell my truck? The answer is you should sell your truck. And if you want to continue the side hustle, that's fine. Get an inexpensive truck to tow it with. But if you, if you don't want to continue it, then sell off the equipment, that's fine. Yep. But if you want to make some extra money and this is a good way to do it, pressure washing is a good way to do it. It's a great side hustle. Really good pay per hour. But you've got some equipment tied up. But you don't need a $40,000 truck to tow a pressure washer. That's kind of. That's backwards.

Caller

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

And if you don't have any other debt and you have an aggressive way to get a three month emergency fund in place to keep moving down the baby steps, that's okay. Yeah, you can. Yeah, you don't have to do the side hustle, but if you want to.

Dave Ramsey

I personally would keep the side hustle going by getting an inexpensive truck and pay cash for it and sell the big one. That's definitely what I would do personally, but I've always worked a lot, most of my life. So. Kayla is in Boston. Hey, Kayla, how are you?

Caller

I am good. How are you?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller

Up.

So my fiance and I have been on the house hunt in Massachusetts for about a year now and unfortunately we keep getting overbid.

Rachel Cruze

Good.

Dave Ramsey

You shouldn't be buying a house unless you're married.

Caller

Yeah, my house together. What was that?

Rachel Cruze

Sorry, I was clarifying.

Dave Ramsey

You should not buy a home together when you're not married. It's not a good idea.

Rachel Cruze

Married people can buy home.

Caller

Oh, I see. I see. Thank you. My parents house is in a really great town in Massachusetts and we've already went to our attorneys and put the house in an irrevocable trust. Since I am the only child, Instead of putting 20% down on a $600,000 house, should I consider maybe putting 20% down into this house, my parents house, because I will be inheriting it one day?

Rachel Cruze

No, I would Not.

Caller

No. Okay.

Rachel Cruze

Because it. Because it just. It locks you in to that home for a really long period of time where you and your husband may get married, and in two years, something may happen. Right. And you guys may move and want to do something else. So, yeah, it locks your money up into an asset that you can't get it out. You can't get it out. It's. Yeah, it's. It's done. Versus you guys building a life together and having a home. And then one day when your parents pass, you know, then you can decide, hey, do we want to move in? Do we want to sell our current home, take some of the equity to fix up mom and dad's home, or sell mom and Dad's home? You know, you actually have options. This just locks you into one option for a long period of time, which I would not do.

Dave Ramsey

When is the wedding?

Caller

Sorry?

Dave Ramsey

When is your wedding?

Caller

Next fall.

Dave Ramsey

This, like 18 months from now?

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. In 30 years of doing this, almost 40 now. Some of the worst nightmares I have seen are people that buy a home together who are not married. Please do not purchase a home until you're married. It is not together. It is not a good idea. You're going to make a mistake, and you're going to. It's going to cost you. You've. You're getting this out of order.

Rachel Cruze

And so, yeah, rent for a little bit, get married, and then you guys go and. And look for a home.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

So.

Dave Ramsey

And I think you've been protected so far from accidentally making that mistake by not being able to buy so far. So. And. And no, I would save up and put as much down as I can put down after we are married. But too many things happen, and you're too vulnerable, and most people are not gonna do the proper documentation and everything else to make sure they're protected. And you're not either. So it's just best to wait until you're married if you're gonna buy together. Now, if one of you wants to buy a house, that's fine, or the other wants to buy a house, that's fine. What Rachel's point was, but couples should not buy homes together that are not married. It creates all kinds of relational problems, legal problems, financial problems, and the unseen things that come at you, the unexpected unintended consequences that come at you create all kinds of issues for you. I'm begging you, don't do this. Gabriel is in Augusta, Georgia. Hi, Gabriel. What's up?

Caller

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I'm doing well. How are you?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I Deserve. How can I help?

Caller

So here's the situation. I'm active duty, military. I am married with two daughters, one year old and a three year old. And we own a home. I put no money down. I use the VA loan, no debt. Other than that, that's a $250,000 mortgage and I owed 243,000 left on it. And besides that, we just have my wife's student loans, which is about 12,12,700 left. So we're working on baby step two, working on paying it off. But I'm thinking ahead and thinking if we have a third kid, we're going to need a car that can have three car seats. And neither of our cars can do that right now.

Dave Ramsey

How old is your youngest?

Caller

Youngest is one year old.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so how far out is this problem do you think? Problem child though the problem is the third car seat. Not the child. Not the child. How far out? The problem is I need a car. How far out is that?

Caller

Yeah, so I mean I. Not to get, you know, too, too personal about it, but, but we're, we're not, we don't believe in using birth control.

Dave Ramsey

Oh.

Caller

So we're gonna try natural. So we're gonna try natural family.

Rachel Cruze

Any minute, nine months, we'll.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. So how much do you have saved towards the next car?

Caller

Well, i0 right now.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. And how much is the current car worth?

Caller

The. We have two cars. I have a beater I drive to work. That's probably worth Less than 2,000 fully paid off. And the other car is worth. I could probably sell it for 17,000 right now.

Rachel Cruze

Oh, perfect.

Dave Ramsey

So sell it for 17,000 and buy something that holds three car seats. For 17,000.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, go get you a used van. A nine year old van. Honda Odyssey is what I recommend.

Dave Ramsey

And if you can save up some cash to put with the 17, maybe you could move all the way up to 20.

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Dave Ramsey

to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan.

Caller

Foreign.

Dave Ramsey

Of the Day is brought to you by why Refi One financial mistake doesn't have to define the rest of your life. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans in default, why Refi can help you explore low fixed rate refinancing options and affordable payment plans. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter. Yes. R e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states Today's question comes

Rachel Cruze

from Carly in New Mexico. She said, my husband and I are in our 40s and we have a household income of $80,000. We are debt free except for mortgages on our home and business building. We have a fully funded emergency fund and about $75,000 in retirement. We have a net worth of over 1 million, but it's almost entirely made up of the equity and real estate investment. Should we be concerned about retirement if we have all of our eggs in one basket? I mean, over the long term, yes, I would be concerned. I mean, if you see a plan out of this where you start to equalize some of this in the next four to five years, I would be more okay with it because of your age and where you guys are at. But I would be making sure that you're funding 15% of that 80,000 in retirement so that you don't become real estate heavy again over the long term. But that 15% will help you kind of balance it out. But yeah, I would, I personally wouldn't want all my net worth purely just in real estate. I would want cash available and real estate investments or I'm sorry, retirement investments like 401 s. The problem is there's

Dave Ramsey

a shortage of cash in that situation and so that that lack of liquidity is going to pinch even if you have a high net worth. And it's all in real estate. I don't mind it being very heavy in real estate, but being cash poor is what I mind. No liquidity. And so having some Other types of retirement investments to provide the cash is fine because these are not people that love real estate for some reason end up cash poor if you're not careful.

Sponsor

Right.

Rachel Cruze

Because a lot of the investments, you know, they're not making, they're not providing the cash. Right. It's tied up in a business building. And unless the business is paying rent to the building, then you make money that way. But there's no cash coming out of these investments.

Dave Ramsey

Nothing to panic. But I would start building a liquidity position is what we would call it, meaning some cash. And that would a good way to do. That's exactly what Rachel said. Start putting 15% of your income away into retirement into some good mutual funds. And that, you know, over time that's going to be plenty. You know, that. That alone will make you another several million. All right. Dennis is in Atlanta. Hi, Dennis, how are you?

Caller

Hey, Dave and Rachel, it's an honor to speak to you guys.

Dave Ramsey

You too. What's up?

Caller

So, got a question for you. I am 32, no kids, not married. I'm going to be finishing baby step two this week and should be done with baby step three in about two months. And then that will put me into baby step seven. So I'm kind of not sure what to do. I know I'm going to max out my Roth IRA, put some money in my work 401k, but really just don't know what else to do at that point.

Rachel Cruze

Is it because your house is paid off or do you, do you own a home or are you living somewhere else?

Caller

Yes, yes, I own a home.

Rachel Cruze

It's paid off and it's paid off. Okay, good for you, Dennis.

Dave Ramsey

Way to go, man.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, well done.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. So yeah, I would max out all the retirements and then I would have some other investments going in non retirement, minimum of something like an S&P 500. But if you wanted to get with your smartvestor pro and open up a brokerage and have some after tax investing going in addition to your maxed out retirement, that's what I would. That's what I did do with it, by the way. That's not what I would do with it. It's what I actually did. And that money, that side money, is what I started buying real estate paid for with. And nowadays many, many, many years later, Dennis. Cause I'm 65. You're 32, right?

Aaron

Right.

Caller

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

And I was probably about 32 when I started that. But now I've got a lot more of my net worth in real estate than I do in mutual funds.

Caller

Okay. Yeah. I was going to plan on opening up a brokerage account and kind of start building potentially a bridge account or you know, something to pull from, you know, if I wanted to buy a second home or something like that.

Dave Ramsey

Exactly, exactly. That's exactly what we did. And again, you can sit down with Smartvestor Pro, you can find them at Ramsey Solutions, they can help you put all that together and lay out a game plan and start setting some targets on that that you're aiming for. And man, that's, that's awesome.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. Well done.

Dave Ramsey

Very cool. Good stuff. Well done, well done. Brandon is with us in Provo, Utah. Hi Brandon. How are you?

Caller

Better than I deserve. I wanted to say that to you for such a long time.

Dave Ramsey

Well, you pulled it off. One goal down.

Caller

I know. Amen. Alrighty. So I'm currently dealing with a problem right now. Well, in my mind it's a problem. First world problem. We're going to be in Utah for about three more, me and my wife. She's going to school for architecture and then we're headed out to Florida so I could start my own H Vac company out there with my brother in law and that's currently what I do. What we're currently looking at right now is we have a lot of good finances available. We're wondering if we should be putting money into purchasing a home in Florida now to kind of beat the market, so to speak. And this is what everyone's been telling us to do.

Dave Ramsey

I don't care what out everyone.

Caller

You think

Dave Ramsey

I don't listen to everyone on anything. Matter of fact, what everyone says usually run the other way. No, I wouldn't buy Florida till you're ready to go.

Caller

Okay. So you think just keep on building up our nest egg pretty big.

Dave Ramsey

Yep.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. The market's not going to move that much, Brandon, in three years at this, at this rate. Right. It's not like it's 20, 22 again and everything's just, just skyrocketing. It has slowed down in a good way. But yeah, I think if you guys stack enough cash you can out beat the growth there, if you will.

Dave Ramsey

Yep. You can outstack whatever change in values there are.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

But either way, even if it was going up quickly, I still would not go buy a property in another state in anticipation of moving there. I know, three years, I know that's the plan. But three years is a long time. It's also a very short time. But it's a long time.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. So let's Make a big purchase like that.

Dave Ramsey

No, I wouldn't do it.

Rachel Cruze

And being so far from it, I. Yeah, I wouldn't do it.

Dave Ramsey

Nope, nope. Not the way I'd handle it. David is in Chicago. Hey David, what's up?

Caller

Speak with you guys today?

Dave Ramsey

Sure. How can we help?

Caller

I need a little advice. I've been with the company for 15 years and mismanagement. They are closing their doors in about four weeks. I have a traditional 401k that the company has been contributing to, contributing a flat amount. And I started a Roth 401k on the side also. It's handled through John Hancock. And I was wondering once the company closes its doors, what would be a good option for me if I were to leave it with John Hancock or move it, move it out into something separate such as, like Fidelity or Charles Schwab, something like that.

Dave Ramsey

I would move it to a more traditional mutual fund setting and I would use a SmartVestor Pro that we recommend to do that. The Ramsey trusted ones. And if you go to Ramsey Solutions, you can find the person that we recommend. I would move the John Hancock account over there. And your old 401k at your old company that's closing is very simple. It's a direct transfer rollover to a new traditional IRA and there's zero taxes. Now be very careful, David. Okay, you need to get in touch with SmartVestor Pro now and get the paperwork filled out. And they need to submit that then to the 401k. If you take a check on the 401k the government requires directly to you. The government requires them to withhold 20% and you don't have 100% then to roll over. And so that's going to burn you on taxes. So you don't want to do that. You want to directly transfer this rollover into the next ira and you not touch, doesn't need to touch your hands because they're going to withhold 20% on you. So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro Pro and you can find somebody in your area to sit down and do that and get that opened up. And they'll, they'll, you know, and, and you can roll your John Hancock thing over there too. It'll be easy.

Rachel Cruze

Do both of them.

Dave Ramsey

Do, do both of them. Keep them all in one place with your SmartVestor Pro. You'll be in much better shape than both of those situations. So I hope you got the next gig lined up. Brother.

Caller

Sam,

Dave Ramsey

As a dad of young kids, I'M starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for preteens and teens. Because one thing I know for sure, if you don't teach your kids how to understand the world, somebody else will. And these days that could be TikTok, YouTube, Instagram influencers, or whoever happens to show up in their social media feed. World Watch's 10 minute videos help young people understand what's happening in the world through a Christian worldview without all the outrage, negativity and noise that is everywhere these days. The reporting is factual, engaging and designed specifically for preteens and teens. And World Watch creates opportunities for something every family needs more of, meaningful conversations. Instead of just reacting to headlines, kids learn how to think about what's happening in the world. And parents get a chance to keep those conversations going at home.

Aaron

Home.

Dave Ramsey

Because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now you can get a 30 day free trial. Just go to WorldW News News Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's Worldwatch News Ramsey. Linda is in Houston. Hi, Linda. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Caller

Hello. Thank you for having me. So I am 35 years old. I have two kids. I have a common law husband who's been unemployed for 12 years. I've been with him for 15. I have a total debt of 45k in student loans on my car. I have home that was gifted to me that was worth $400,000. And so I am a registered nurse. My father told me, hey, come work for me. I'll pay you what you were making as a nurse while you go to nurse practitioner school. So that's where I'm at right now. My question to you is, should I pull a HELOC loan on my home to invest in real estate? And with that being said, one that would be helping me with the contracting and building is my father. He wants me to tell my husband to get a job, which my husband has had trouble listening.

Dave Ramsey

Your husband's had trouble what?

Caller

Listening to my advice on him getting a job. He did not take it well when I asked him to get a job for 12 years.

Rachel Cruze

What's he been doing?

Caller

He was taking care of the kids while the kids were during the pandemic, doing online schooling. But the kids had been back in school for going on three years now and he refuses to find work or help me out.

Dave Ramsey

What's he do all day?

Caller

Oh, usually at home with the kids right now during the summer, but at home as well, whenever they're in school. Keeps up with the home.

Rachel Cruze

And he just says, I just. I want to take care of the home and the kids, and I don't want to go get a traditional job and make a living.

Caller

Yes. I have talked to him and asked him to help me out because we are still currently living patriot to pay,

Dave Ramsey

even with common law. So you guys are never married? You're never married?

Caller

No, we're not legally married, no.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. So I'm curious why you've put up with this for 12 years.

Caller

Oh, yes. I asked myself the same thing, but the fact that we have kids, and I have tried talking to him about helping me work. I'm tired of living paycheck to paycheck. I want to grow. I'm already. I'm 35 years old, and I'm already planning retirement. I want my kids to be. Be able to be financially ahead, you know, just like I was, thanks to my father.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. I also don't want to be married to a knot on a log, a lazy guy.

Caller

Oh, yes, I agree.

Dave Ramsey

Aside from all your personal goals, it's just hard to respect a guy that sits on his butt all day.

Caller

I agree. I agree. So. Because I wish he had the same.

Rachel Cruze

And I'm assuming that attitude of a little bit of laziness and apathy plays into every part of his life. Right. Your marriage and all. It's who he is. Yeah.

Caller

Yes. I make a decent amount of money. You know, I wish I made more. I'm. We live comfortable, but like I said, we're paycheck to paycheck. One disaster away from everything crumbling.

Dave Ramsey

And so the house ends in your name.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Correct.

Caller

Yes. The house was gifted to me by my father. Everything's under my name.

Dave Ramsey

And in your state, the common law status does not give him any access to ownership in the house, right?

Caller

No. Because it was gifted. He doesn't have anything. But now I worry if I do, if I do pull a HELOC loan to invest with my father.

Dave Ramsey

I would not pull a HELOC loan to invest with your father under any circumstances.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

Period. We don't teach people to borrow money to invest. We teach people not to do that. But yeah. So basically, you're the owner of the house, and so relationally, this comes down to just telling him he has to leave, right?

Caller

Yes. I don't want to because I believe that every child deserves a voltanic in their home. But I don't want my children.

Dave Ramsey

I don't want my children thinking this is how a man behaves.

Caller

Exactly. Exactly.

Dave Ramsey

So this is not. Don't tell me we're doing this for the children. The proper thing to do for the children is to not let this model be in front of them. Does he have an abuse problem? Is he abusing alcohol?

Caller

He's had a past with substance abuse.

Dave Ramsey

You sure it's in the past?

Caller

Yes, once in a while. Currently.

Dave Ramsey

Once in a while. That's not in the past, by the way. If you've been an abuser, if you've been an addict and you're drinking again, that's not in the past. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm not sure exactly what our question is on the table, but what I would tell you to do is, no, I would not take out a home equity loan to invest with your father. Borrow on the home that he gave you that's paid for. That's a little weird. Okay. Not even thinking about that one period. As far as there's going to be,

Rachel Cruze

I think, some absolutes that are drawn.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. I think under the direction of a good marriage counselor. And I would go see one. He's not going to go, but if I were you, I would get somebody other than a couple of people on a podcast guest or your dad to advise you on this relationally. What we're hearing, though, is if we were in that situation, we would say you're going to have a job working 40 hours a week sometime in the next 30 days, or you're going to have to leave. And that's what I would have done 11 years ago, not sit on your butt for 12 years. So this is now your fault. It's no longer his fault because you've tolerated it this long. So now you've got to correct your problem that you created by drawing a line in the sand.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

And I think that's what a good counselor is going to tell you. But you ought to have someone other than us tell you how to do that. Other than your dad.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. And I was trying to flip the script in my head. If a man called and said, we're paycheck to paycheck, My wife refuses to get a job. X, Y, and Z. You know, like, does that make a difference? You know what I mean? I'm playing that out in my head. If there's a difference there. I don't know if there is, but I think the problem is, is that

Dave Ramsey

I don't think this guy wants to be. I don't think this guy's asking to be a stay at home dad. I think this guy doesn't want to work.

Rachel Cruze

That's what I'm saying is I would.

Dave Ramsey

Like that's the difference.

Rachel Cruze

And when one spouse is the only income earner and is struggling and reaching out to the other spouse, I mean, I know they're not married and saying, I need help. We need help to get us out of this situation, to get out of debt. It's kind of all hands on deck. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's the attitude approach of a healthy marriage. That we look at our situation and say, okay, what do we have to do instead?

Dave Ramsey

She has three dependents.

Rachel Cruze

Yes. And that he's doing nothing.

Dave Ramsey

Nothing.

Rachel Cruze

Nothing.

Dave Ramsey

See? Nothing Drives me bananas.

Rachel Cruze

I know. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

I can't handle it.

Rachel Cruze

And just a dude. I mean, when you said that, I was like, it's so true. It's one of the most. That'd be one of the most unattractive things. Things. Just lazy. Do you know what I mean?

Dave Ramsey

Just a hound dog in the sun on the front porch.

Rachel Cruze

Lazy. I'm like napping, man.

Dave Ramsey

That's it.

Rachel Cruze

He had initiative. How do you sign up for doing something like. You know what I mean? Within another context, I'm like, I'm trying to, like, I'm playing gymnastics in my head a little bit of how I would approach it if it was something else and something different.

Dave Ramsey

But I think it's just.

Rachel Cruze

I think the end of the day,

Dave Ramsey

the problem you're going to have is this. Okay. Very little that you can do in this. Once as much water's under the bridge. Bridge is going to work. Because we have 12 years of the same pattern of script.

Rachel Cruze

Yep.

Dave Ramsey

And now to flip the script and go, oh, you got to get a job or you're out of here. It's just not. It's just gonna. It's not gonna go. It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. He's not gonna go. Oh, you know, I was just thinking the same thing this morning. No, that's not gonna happen.

Rachel Cruze

And I'll provide for my family.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. You know. No, you wouldn't have anywhere near the fuse on this bomb that you'd have around, man.

Rachel Cruze

And then you got Linda, who's like, killing it, working hard. A nurse.

Dave Ramsey

Nurse heading towards nurse practitioner. Got a paid for $400,000 house.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

By the way, I think you need to pursue nurse practitioner. Not your dad's business, too. You didn't mention that. But I'll throw that in just for the fun of it.

Rachel Cruze

Linda. I'm sorry.

Dave Ramsey

I love the independence that you can have and that you have and you're gonna need it. Yeah. And that's where it's gonna take you. So. Yeah, I don't think this, as they say, leopard is going to change his spots. I got a feeling that as you just go, oh, and I was just thinking, no, that's not gonna come up that way. I think the old boy is gonna have to find somewhere else to take his naps because he takes a lot of naps after. He drinks a lot. And she's not being truthful. He drinks a lot still. Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

Linda, I'm sorry. I appreciate the mom heart, though, of fighting for your family and, you know, all of it. But you got to figure out what's

Dave Ramsey

good for you, Linda, and for the kids.

Caller

You.

Rachel Cruze

Yes. And you being in the healthiest situation, safest situation for you is going to be the best thing for your kids. But I would, I would go get some infection from, from a counselor. I would sit down with someone, a professional, and talk it through.

Dave Ramsey

Sit down with a good pastor.

Caller

Maybe that's a good idea.

Dave Ramsey

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Steve is in Rochester, New York. Hi, Steve, how are you?

Caller

Hey, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller

I have a business that I've owned for about eight years now. Within the last 16 months or so, it's taken a hit and it's basically breaking even. And I haven't been paying myself throughout that. So, you know, I'm trying to figure out. It's listed for sale. Not probably not going to get anything close to what would have gotten a few years ago. And I'm just trying to, you know, get some guidance on what I should do next, if I should try and pour some more money into it or go look for a 9 to 5 or start a new company.

Rachel Cruze

What kind of business is it, Steve?

Caller

It's a protein supplement company.

Rachel Cruze

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

That you make or that you sell.

Caller

Can you repeat that, please?

Dave Ramsey

Do you make the protein supplements or do you just sell other people's?

Caller

We make it. We have a contract manufacturer and we sell it.

Dave Ramsey

What happened to the sales?

Caller

Why is it down direct to consumer? We were using a 3PO one.3PL and they changed. They got bought out and then bought out again. And they threw out about $350,000 worth of inventory. We hired attorneys Went through the whole process, which was expensive, and we were out of stock on pretty much everything for six to eight months.

Dave Ramsey

So now you have inventory back.

Caller

Now we have most of the inventory back.

Dave Ramsey

So why can't you sell it?

Caller

That flywheel momentum. We're trying, but that flywheel momentum hasn't gotten back up to speed.

Dave Ramsey

Why?

Caller

To where it was? I don't know. I don't know if people are spending less on it or spending or spending more.

Dave Ramsey

Why isn't your selling?

Caller

Probably marketing. Getting the name out there or back out there.

Dave Ramsey

How were you. I mean, the other company was doing all the marketing for you. You've never had any experience selling your own product?

Caller

No, we have. We used to use influencers and we stopped using that because. Stopped using them because it was. We didn't have great experiences with some of them.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. Because it didn't work

Caller

at first. It worked. Yeah, but. But after that it didn't.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so it sounds like you know how to make protein supplements but you don't know how to sell them. That's what it sounds like.

Caller

Me specifically to go out and you own the company. Right.

Dave Ramsey

I don't necessarily say you need to go door to door, but you ought to have an idea how you're going to directly get this thing that you created and you created it with someone in mind. And who are you going. How are you going to get it to them? That's marketing.

Caller

Right, Right.

Rachel Cruze

How many people work on the team? Steve?

Caller

It's small. It's about. Not about four people.

Rachel Cruze

Okay, so after payroll and expenses and everything, you guys are breaking even?

Caller

Yes.

Yeah. I'm not. I'm not how long myself.

Dave Ramsey

And then how is. How is that much product moving? Just on your website?

Caller

Yeah, yeah, on our website.

Rachel Cruze

And how long has it been since you've had inventory back?

Caller

Almost about four months.

Dave Ramsey

How long ago did you start this company?

Caller

Eight years ago.

Dave Ramsey

You told me that. I'm sorry. So eight years ago, if I had talked to Steve, would he have been more excited than he is right now? He sounds down in the dumps.

Caller

Yeah, very much so. It's been. It's been so frustrating. I've married. I wasn't married when I started the company and we have a five month old.

Rachel Cruze

And you've been through a lawsuit and all of it, it's just taken you out?

Caller

Yes. Yeah. It's been listed for sale for. Since we got inventory back in stock, there's not been much movement. So it's. It has been pretty frustrating.

Dave Ramsey

But it's not it's not really much of an asset to buy because it's not profitable.

Caller

Right.

Dave Ramsey

I don't know why anybody would want

Rachel Cruze

to buy it unless they would just want to buy the inventory and then.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, and the formulas and recipes or whatever. But.

Rachel Cruze

Okay. So, Steve, so what next steps for you? You're wondering. Your main question is you keep putting money into this.

Dave Ramsey

No, not unless you have a reason to believe it's going to work. And right now I haven't heard a reason to believe it's going to work. So Henry Cloud says in his book Necessary Endings that we end something, a relationship, a job, a business, a department, an employment, whatever it is, when we lose hope that the situation is going to improve. And I have not heard a single thing talking to you that you have any hope this is going to happen.

Rachel Cruze

I know it's been four. Well, I'm just thinking it's been four months since everything's been back, but there's

Dave Ramsey

no light at the end of the tunnel. That's not an oncoming.

Rachel Cruze

I'm just wondering, Steve, if you were killing it right now, would you still love the business or do you just want out in general?

Caller

I probably wouldn't be. You know, I've exited a company before and was making pretty good money then.

Rachel Cruze

Okay, so you just want out in general, even if it was doing good, owning your own company and doing all of this, it's just. It's not. Not. It's not fun right now for you in general. Hello?

Dave Ramsey

He's gone.

Rachel Cruze

Oh, we lost him. Oh, did I offend him? No, just kidding.

Dave Ramsey

I doubt it. Yeah, no, that's my job.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, I would just tell him. I just wonder if there's strategies you go back to for 60 more days to see if there's anything.

Dave Ramsey

Tell me three things. You want to try to keep it open.

Rachel Cruze

That's right.

Dave Ramsey

And I can't get any of that out of it.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah, no, he seems like he's done.

Dave Ramsey

He needs to close it.

Rachel Cruze

Seems like he's done.

Dave Ramsey

He's done.

Rachel Cruze

So what do you do? Sell off the inventory to another company or something? Try to get the cash flow, keep

Dave Ramsey

your website open and shovel it out of your basement.

Rachel Cruze

We got him back. Steve, you there? Wait. Press two.

Dave Ramsey

We got him. Okay, good. Steve, we got your back.

Rachel Cruze

Oh, there you are. Okay, good.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. So do you have three moves you can make to try to salvage this thing and get it profitable that you want to try, or do you want to collect it?

Caller

My gut instinct is to close it and or sell it, but you know, to put money into it in three months, another year.

Dave Ramsey

You don't, you don't have, you don't have anything that gives you hope. That's what, that's what I'm hearing. Yeah.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

And you're. And I'm also hearing in your voice that you're out of gas.

Caller

Yes, yes. You know, three, you know, with a five month old and staying up till 2am 3am to try and make this work. It's, it's my family and faith are more important than.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. What is the, what is the value of the inventory?

Caller

It's about 350,000.

Dave Ramsey

Okay.

Rachel Cruze

I wonder if you can sell that.

Dave Ramsey

I think you can work that as your side hustle. Just running now for your own website with no overhead and get your inventory back out of it. You're probably going to make more than that way than you will trying to sell it. Sell the business. Because I don't think the business is a viable purchase because it's not got profit. And businesses that aren't profitable are called a hobby. So yeah, I'd go get a 9 to 5 and come in out of the cold for a while and heal. You may go back to being an entrepreneur someday. That's not a sin. But it's not unusual at all for somebody to take five years and go back out into the marketplace, work for someone else, get their emotions healed, get the lick your wounds as they say. And you know you've got these responsibilities that are weighing heavy on you. So that's what I would do. Took a minute to get there. Sorry about that. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance. Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would would. Find what you need@ramseysolutions.com insurance. Tessa is in Pensacola. Hi Tessa, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Caller

Hi. Thank you.

Dave Ramsey

What's up?

Caller

I am calling. My husband and I have been following your principles for the last six years. We just paid off our mortgage.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah.

Caller

Really excited. We and we've been investing 15% since we hit baby step four. But now that we paid off our mortgage we've been looking in how to like optimize that investment.

Dave Ramsey

Good.

Caller

We've been investing between Roth and traditional and just like a split there but now we just, we hit. We Just found out that we hit. There's a. For Roth, there's an income limit. So we cannot invest in the traditional or the Roth. I know there's the back door, but the question is, is there a recommendation on percentages of the 15% to invest in traditional versus backdoor?

Dave Ramsey

100% into Roth, 100% into Roth. Your 401k ought to be Roth. Everything ought to be Roth. If it can be. Is it. Is Roth available on your 401 case?

Caller

It is, but we don't qualify because of our income.

Dave Ramsey

That's not true. True, 401k does not have an income limitation.

Caller

The traditional. But doesn't the Roth.

Dave Ramsey

A Roth individual has a $200,000 married filing jointly limit, and you have to do a backdoor, but not on the 401k. I do a Roth 401k, and my income is way above that.

Caller

Okay, so just continue. Put the whole 15% in.

Dave Ramsey

No, I'd put everything. I'd max out your 401K K, all Roth. And then I do two backdoor Roth IRAs. Individuals as well.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

And that. And if you've got money, if you have the money to do all of that and still do some of the other things you want to do with your life, then that's what I would do. What's your household income?

Caller

It's. It's variable because of a commission structure, but anywhere between three to 400,000.

Dave Ramsey

Okay. Yeah. You got the money to have a wonderful life and max out all your retirement.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah.

Caller

So 100% Roth and backdoors.

Dave Ramsey

Exactly.

Rachel Cruze

And then if you wanted to beyond that, Tessa, open up. I mean, it would be like a bridge account, I guess, or, you know,

Dave Ramsey

just a brokerage account. Put some money in mutual funds that

Rachel Cruze

are not in retirement that you can use. Because if you go down this rabbit hole, there's the mega back door for. I mean, there's all these other elements that are so. Such high numbers. And I remember we even. We. We've talked about this on the show High earners. There is a point that you can max all these things. You know, there's all these elements of massive retirement investments, but it's all stuck till you're 59 and a half. So there is a point of maxing out everything from the traditional sense, but then there's all these other layers that you could do. But I probably wouldn't.

Dave Ramsey

At your level of income, I probably would not do megas. Yes, but I would just take your full 401k at Roth and take Your backdoor Roth's individuals. At your income, you'll still have plenty of money. You'll do some other investing, some other generosity, some other enjoying and you'll have plenty of, you should have plenty of wiggle room. And they're making three or four hundred thousand. So yeah, sit down with your smartvestor pro. They can walk you through every single bit of that and show you how to do it. Jared is in Chattanooga. Hi Jared, how are you?

Caller

Hi Dave. Good, how are you?

Dave Ramsey

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Caller

Well, I just want to say what an honor it is to talk to you. My question is. So right now I'm 30 years old, I'm in a pretty high paying career. I would like to make a 10 year plan for myself to transition to a more flexible career path so that I can spend more time with family. I'm just wondering the best way to think about that. It'll be probably I'll be making about a fourth of what I'm making now.

Dave Ramsey

What do you make now?

Caller

Right now I make about 194 after taxes. It's like 170 a year.

Dave Ramsey

How old are your, how old's your family?

Caller

I'm 30. My wife is 25. We have a one year old and we have another daughter on the way.

Dave Ramsey

And you want to transition your career to make less money so that you have more flexibility. How many hours a week do you work?

Caller

Right now I work full time. So 40 hours, 45 to 50.

Dave Ramsey

You make $200,000 a year making working 40 hours a week?

Caller

Yeah, probably more like 45 to 50 hours right now.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, and what will you be making in five years if you stay in this career?

Caller

Probably slightly over 200.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. And what are you doing? What's your career?

Caller

I work in finance. Finance and accounting for a manufacturing company.

Rachel Cruze

Okay, and where did you get the numbers that it's going to be a fourth? Like were you looking at a specific role at a job that's 20 hours a week or something? Like give me the reasoning of when you said it's going to be about a four forth.

Caller

Yeah, I want to be a soccer coach and we would like to homeschool our kids. So I'd like to transition to that just to be with family more.

Rachel Cruze

Okay, but you have a one. So you have the one year old who won't be in school for another four to five years. Right?

Caller

Right.

Rachel Cruze

Okay. So is that when you're thinking when they start kindergarten but you won't be home? Will your wife be homeschooling or will you?

Caller

My wife is going to homeschool. This is. I'm trying to find like a ten year plan, hopefully.

Rachel Cruze

Okay.

Caller

So I think I have about 10 years to.

Okay.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. I mean, I would just work my. Yeah. Work hard. Don't overwork yourself, but work hard, save, get out of debt, pay off the house. Get yourself in a position that. Yeah. That if you, if you decide to pull back career wise at 40 and make a fourth, that you'll have enough. But I just don't.

Dave Ramsey

Where are you a soccer coach at 50k? Where are you gonna be a soccer coach for 50,000?

Caller

I was gonna do like youth club teams and probably a local high school around here.

Dave Ramsey

Okay.

Aaron

All right.

Dave Ramsey

I.

Rachel Cruze

Dave, doesn't compute with this.

Dave Ramsey

No.

Rachel Cruze

And Jared, let me just tell you, I think in 10 years your life is gonna look so different. I think you're 30, you have a one year old. I think by the time you guys have another couple kids, they start school, you start your life, things may shift. So you can.

Dave Ramsey

I think there's a lot of different ways to accomplish similar goals that aren't as destructive as this is. So. I mean, you can soccer coach on the side and make a shift in your career where you've got more flexibility in your current career and you're still making the same kind of money. I think that's an entire possibility. This idea that you somehow have to come home and destroy your earning power so that your children turn out is not a truth. That's not a true story. That's not true. Men have worked 40 hours a week, 40, since time began and their children turn out. And so this idea that you have to be at home to nurture is not true.

Rachel Cruze

No. But what I would say is true at 40, to have the flexibility, just like you're saying to be able to leave an office at 3:30 to go and coach your kid's soccer team on

Dave Ramsey

the side as opposed to leaving the office for good. Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

Right.

Dave Ramsey

I don't have a problem with that at all. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. One of the reasons we work and build up a nest egg and some wealth is to give us some flexibility. Flexibility.

Rachel Cruze

And Jared, you may look up in an accounting. You could have your own accounting firm in 10 years and do the business you want to do, you know what I mean? And create your, your own destiny.

Dave Ramsey

Like it's a lot better idea.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. There's a lot of avenues here. Yeah. So I would say, and again, money is not everything. We're not saying that but no, I'm

Dave Ramsey

not saying that at all.

Rachel Cruze

No, but it does give.

Dave Ramsey

But this, this is a, it's a false narrative that need to cut your income to a fourth in order to be a good dad.

Rachel Cruze

That's right.

Dave Ramsey

And in order to be. Have been called flexible. And in order to homeschool your kids and in order. I don't know what you're reading, but that's just a false narrative. And so never seeing your children and working 80 hours a week and being a workaholic is the other end of the spectrum. We don't endorse that either. We don't endorse that either. The reason we live like no one else is so that later we can live and give like no one else. One else. And that involves some flexibility. But I, I think you need to be careful what narrative you're buying off on. That's, that's what's bothering me with.

Caller

Foreign.

Dave Ramsey

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey, Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Until it's summertime. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. There's a bunch of folk showing up today and we do the show from 1 to 4 central time every day, Monday through Friday on the glass. You're more than welcome to come by and get a free homemade chocolate chip cookie and some coffee and visit the store, visit the museum and sit and watch the show. And also whatever you call that thing back there.

Rachel Cruze

Smithsonian of Ramsay, Smithsonian of Ramsey.

Dave Ramsey

That's it.

Rachel Cruze

Our history wall.

Dave Ramsey

The history wall. The wall of history. What do you call that if it's not that? I don't know. Anyway, so also in the middle of that lobby is the debt free stage, which is where Aaron is standing on the debt free stage. Hey, Aaron, how are ya?

Aaron

I'm doing well. How are you guys doing?

Dave Ramsey

Better than we deserve. Where do you live from?

Aaron

Columbus, Ohio.

Dave Ramsey

Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off?

Aaron

I paid off $31,000 in $30,000 months.

Dave Ramsey

Good for you and your range of income during that.

Aaron

Two and a half, 35,000. Up to 38,000.

Dave Ramsey

Wow, that's amazing numbers.

Rachel Cruze

Thousand bucks a month you're putting away.

Dave Ramsey

You lived on beans? Not even beans and rice.

Aaron

I moved into an apartment above the vet clinic that I work at that involved not paying any rent or utilities in exchange for taking care of, boarding, and hospitalized patients overnight on the weekends.

Dave Ramsey

Wow. You went all in. Amazing. What kind of Debt was the 31,000?

Aaron

23,000 of that was a car loan, and then the 8,000 were two student loans.

Dave Ramsey

Wow. Very cool.

Rachel Cruze

Did you go to vet school?

Aaron

No, I'm a vet tech.

Rachel Cruze

Vet tech. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So I was gonna say that's pretty good. 8,000 for veterinarian degree, but no, you got off the other way.

Aaron

That's good.

Rachel Cruze

That's good.

Dave Ramsey

So how old are you?

Aaron

28 years old.

Dave Ramsey

Very good. Good for you. So what happened 30 months ago that made you get so radical?

Aaron

I took Financial Peace University through my church, and just knowing other people who were actively getting out of debt or people who had gotten out of debt, who I knew who were able to do that really inspired me and helped me get a jump start on getting out of debt.

Dave Ramsey

And what a cool opportunity to be able to get a free apartment for a little while and do what you love. Anyway, you love animals.

Aaron

It's been a huge blessing.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. That's very cool. That's a neat. That's a. That's a creative way.

Rachel Cruze

It's always fun to hear what people do, you know, and you hear that, you're like, well, there you go. How great for Aaron. Yeah. You don't have to pay rent.

Dave Ramsey

It's not a forever thing. But for a little while, that was fun.

Aaron

Absolutely. Yeah.

Caller

Yeah.

Aaron

Good for you.

Rachel Cruze

That's awesome. Okay, so in the 30 months, what was the hardest part, would you say? You're 28, you're like, I'm living on nothing, doing this debt free thing. What was tough about it?

Aaron

I would say staying motivated at first there at the beginning, it just seemed like a huge mountain to climb. But as I kept going, as the snowball happened and I got the student loans taken care of, that was very motivating. Just to watch my payments be able to get bigger and just to watch my debt just decrease.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, Just watch it go down.

Aaron

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

That keeps you motivated, keeps you moving. And it's like, I can see the end. I can see the end. I can do this. I can do this.

Aaron

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

That's called hope. Yeah. Very cool. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. Who was cheering you on? This gang over here in the peanut gallery.

Aaron

Yes. Yep. My Whole family.

Dave Ramsey

All right.

Rachel Cruze

That's awesome.

Dave Ramsey

Very good. And they all came down with you to cheer today, huh?

Aaron

They did, yes.

Dave Ramsey

Very good. So mom and dad are proud.

Aaron

Yes.

Caller

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

You're living in the vet clinic, not their basement. That's good. I like it. Very cool. Now that you did all this, how does it feel?

Aaron

Feel fantastic.

Dave Ramsey

Was it worth it?

Aaron

Yes, it feels very freeing.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. Very cool. So what do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt

Aaron

is having and sticking to a budget was very helpful. There's freedom within the budget, too. Budgeting just gives you a plan for your money so you can still do the fun things you want to do and still savor the things that you want to do while also being able to. To pay your bills.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Were you doing it on the EveryDollar app or on paper?

Aaron

Yes, I've used every dollar.

Dave Ramsey

Okay.

Caller

All right.

Dave Ramsey

Very cool. Good for you.

Rachel Cruze

Good for you. So great.

Dave Ramsey

Very, very proud of you, Aaron.

Rachel Cruze

That's awesome.

Caller

Good work.

Rachel Cruze

Okay, so the other 20 something year olds that are listening and they have student loan debt, they got car loans, all the things. What would you tell them if they're sitting there thinking, there's no way I can do what Aaron did? Like, she just. She killed it. She sacrificed so much and got out of. Of what, $31,000 a day. I don't know if I can do it. What encouragement would you give someone listening in their 20s?

Aaron

I would say to think outside the box, look for opportunities to decrease your living expenses and find anything you can do to increase your income. And I was able to do this, doing things that I love. In addition to living above the vet clinic, I've also done a lot of pet sitting on the side, which I love doing that anyway.

Rachel Cruze

Yes, Yes. I love that. When people can find a side hustle that they're naturally good at, it's what they're. It's what they can do well, you know, and then you get paid for it. Just like what you're saying. That's awesome.

Dave Ramsey

Works out perfectly. Perfectly. Well done, Ms. Erin. Proud of you. Good work, Good work. And onto everything else in your life from this point forward. You got everything's wide open now.

Aaron

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

Congratulations. Well, well done. All right, It's Aaron in Columbus, Ohio. 30, $31,000 paid off in 30 months. For those of you slow at math, that's $1,000 a month, making only 35 to 38. She did this. It's amazing. This is very cool. Those numbers are unbelievably cool. Very good work. All right, Erin from Columbus, count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

Aaron

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

Dave Ramsey

Yes. That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. That's how it's done.

Rachel Cruze

Love it.

Dave Ramsey

So we get to meet the Gen Zers and the millennials that are not victims and that are not entitled and that are actually go getters. They. They get up, leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. She's obviously one of the. And we get to meet them. And so we have a distinct advantage over a lot of people out there, because a lot of people can believe that these two generations are all entitled brats that live in their mother's basement or something. And they're not. There's a high percentage of them qualify like her.

Rachel Cruze

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

And we got a bunch of them working here in that age group, too, and they're incredible.

Rachel Cruze

Well, when you. And I think what's always impressive is when you choose to do something when you are on the younger side of life, you know what I mean? Like, it's one thing when you're in your 40s or 50s and you're like, I gotta get my crap together. Cause I see retirement coming, all of it. But to have people in their 20s, like, step into this and be like, you know what? I'm gonna do it early. Because it's what everyone else wishes they had done. You know, they're like, living out the lives.

Dave Ramsey

I wish I had met you when I was 19.

Caller

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

That's so many people. That's right. Yeah. And for Erin to think about at 28, you think 10 years from now. 38, 48, 20, like, what she can save and put away. She'll be a baby steps millionaire, honestly, in no time. Like, it is wild what your income can do when you have no payments.

Dave Ramsey

Yep, yep. And what your career will do.

Rachel Cruze

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

Because it opens up. You don't have to sit in a bad situation. You can make different choices on where you work, how you work, who you work with, because you're not staying stuck. You're not dependent upon, oh, if I lose one paycheck, I lose my car. If I lose one paycheck, the student loan people are going to come knocking at my door. If I lose one paycheck, we're going to discover that Samuel L. Jackson is actually in my wallet. You know, it's a MasterCard. Right. What's in your wallet? Apparently you. You know, and so, yeah, all that's gone. And so when you learn to do what she did, which is Take a very intentional approach, step by step, systematic. Like, she did follow the process. Didn't argue, didn't try to make up her own thing with some math thing. She read on TikTok. She just said, I took this class, I'm going to do this.

Rachel Cruze

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

It was real simple. And there's a beauty to that. Simplicity.

Rachel Cruze

Absolutely. Well, and the consistency. And over time, like, it's not. It's not fast. Right. I mean, 30 months, like she, you

Dave Ramsey

know, it's two and a half years.

Rachel Cruze

Over two and a half years. And it's. That's a. When you're in the grind of that. That's long.

Caller

Right.

Rachel Cruze

You can look up and think two and a half years ago from sitting here and you're like, oh, my gosh, that went so fast. But when you're in the middle of it, like she was saying, it can be hard. So the, the perseverance and the motivation. Yep. I think is great.

Aaron

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze

And I think another funny thing is being on this show and you get calls from all generations. And I'll say, I think we've met as many entitled boomers calling in, expecting certain things as we have gen Zers, you know, I mean.

Dave Ramsey

Oh, definitely.

Rachel Cruze

There is a. Definitely an amazing thing that regardless of. Of your age or generation, the people that went on this stage, then I think the consistent thing that we see over and over again, regardless of age, is that they believe they can do it. And she looked up and said, you know what? I'm going to change some things for my situation and I'm going to do it.

Sponsor

And she did.

Dave Ramsey

I'm going to take this.

Rachel Cruze

It's amazing.

Dave Ramsey

A buddy of mine said, he said it never worked. Your stuff never worked, Dave, until I submitted myself to the program.

Rachel Cruze

Just like, yeah, I had to submit

Dave Ramsey

myself to something that's different than I thought, different than my arrogance. Yeah, that's very good.

Rachel Cruze

Congrats, Aaron.

Dave Ramsey

Very cool, Aaron. Proud of you.

Rachel Cruze

Awesome. Hey, guys, Rachel Cruz here. And I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else? There's more of spending.

Aaron

Oh.

Rachel Cruze

Between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar budgeting app because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your Summer without the money. Stress. Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free. Today,

Dave Ramsey

Our scripture of the day, Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness. Give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name. B.B. king said, the beautiful thing about learning is nobody can take it away from you.

Rachel Cruze

All right, up next we have Chase in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Chase. Welcome to the Chicago show.

Caller

Hey, guys, how are you?

Rachel Cruze

We're doing great. How can we help?

Caller

Hey, so first off, I want to say I'm sorry if I stutter. I stutter when I get nervous, so it might be a little awkward here.

Rachel Cruze

No worries at all. Dave just screwed up his whole in ears, so he's, he's having issues too. So don't. You're in good company. Don't worry, Chase.

Aaron

Don't worry.

Caller

Okay. So my wife and I, we make decent money. I mean, I would say it's okay. Money.

Rachel Cruze

How much is that?

Caller

So we make 118,000 a year combined.

Rachel Cruze

Okay.

Caller

We just paid off her debt besides her car, which we still owe about 18,000 on it. And now we're transitioning into my debt. I made a bunch of stupid decisions when I was around 23, and I have three items on my, on my credit that are charge offs and those charge offs total up to about $4,000. And then I have about an additional $3,000 that is medical, that is not charge off. So my question is, how do I go by paying these off to be able to boost my credit and have be able to buy a house by no later than February?

Dave Ramsey

Don't know if you're going to make it by February, but we can help you get it cleaned up and then we'll see how quick it changes your credit score. Okay.

Caller

Of course.

Dave Ramsey

So the, the $3,000 in medical, why has that not been paid and how long ago was that?

Caller

So it was about two years ago, pretty much. It came down to I used to work in law enforcement. I got injured when I wasn't working and ended up having to leave my job. I wasn't able to return just due to the injuries. And then we just, we lived pretty much penny pinching, paycheck to paycheck. I was trying to do odds and end jobs.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so that's all. But it's not been written off or charged off yet as far as you know? Yeah. So do you have a contact point on all three of these debts, someone to call?

Caller

Yes.

Dave Ramsey

Okay, so call them up and ask them what it takes to clear the debt or what they will accept to clear the debt. Okay, okay. They're all bad debts. And a bad debt made good, even if it's settled, is about the same thing as paying it. So that 3,000, they might say, oh, we've added charges and interest and it's 8,000. And you may have to negotiate down and say, okay, I can't give you 8,000, but I can give you 3,000. If you'll take the original amount, I can send you a check today. If you send me that in writing, that you'll accept that as settlement in full. Okay.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

So in all three cases, you're looking for a couple of things. One is you need an email or something in writing that says, we the organization will accept X amount as settlement in full. And then you keep that piece of paper in hard form, print it off in a file for the rest of your life. Because these people forget, they screw up, they call back, they go, oh, we didn't settle that. Oh, that guy didn't have the rights. Oh, I too, sorry, I got it in writing. Okay, so you need to get it in writing. And then the second thing is they will ask, some of them will ask for electronic access to your checking account to pay the bill that once you agreed on the settled amount, do not allow them to have electronic access to your checking account. They lie, they will clean you out. Okay.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

So instead you can wire them the money or you can buy a prepaid, one time use debit card for the exact amount and put it on that, and then give them that card number. But don't let them use your regular debit card and don't let them, you don't give them your checking account number, anything like that. Okay.

Caller

Okay.

Dave Ramsey

So in writing, no electronic access to your checking account. And then you've got a deal on all three the fastest. As soon as you do that and then, you know, go ahead and put in, then you can, and you can even put in the, in writing that as soon as we receive this, we will will enter on the credit bureau that it was paid in, that it was settled or that it was paid in full. Whatever settled in full is fair, that's fine. But that will remove the damage, the bulk of the damage. So if we were going to put it on a scale of 1 to 10, as an example, a bad charge off is an 8 or a 9 if 10 is the worst. Okay. Which is where you are today. A paid off charge off off is a three or a four. So it still damages your credit, because this really happened. And it shows that you didn't pay a bill, but you went back later and paid it. But it's not nearly as bad as where you are today. And that's what I'm saying. I'm not sure you'll quite be ready by February.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah. And do you guys have an emergency fund chase and a down payment? Will you have all that by February?

Caller

Yeah. So we've actually been looking now to go look at houses. We actually have $40,000 for a down payment. And then we have 7,500 put as specifically for my debt.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah.

Caller

Meaning we can go pay off everything. And we're lucky enough that my in laws, they have like an in law suite for their house. We're able to live here for free. They offered it to us instead of renting so we could fix everything up and be able to save for a house. So everything can be paid theoretically today. But I'm. I'm sorry.

Rachel Cruze

Well, no, I was going to say it takes usually around six to eight months. Months. Six to nine months with. For the credit score to go undetermined once all the accounts are closed. So, yeah, you guys will be right on that line.

Dave Ramsey

That's why I keep saying I don't know February is going to work. It might be May, but you got to do it anyway. So let's go get it cleaned up. Go get it cleaned up and get everything shut down. And if you have no other active accounts.

Rachel Cruze

Yep. Making sure everything's closed, then you may,

Dave Ramsey

you may see it go all the way to undetermined, which is the, the best possible scenario.

Rachel Cruze

Because if they pull your credit score when you're trying to get a mortgage and it's bad, it's going to hurt you more than having an undetermined credit score at that point when you can do manual underwriting and have two years of back bills that you're showing that you pay. Right. Cell phone, insurance, electricity, so on.

Dave Ramsey

Exactly. Hey, we wish we could get to every call and question, but we can't. So we built a thing called Ask Ramsey. It's our AI tool that's free. Free. And it's built and trained only on proven Ramsey principles. The data that AI is accessing is only Ramsey data, so you're only going to get a Ramsey answer. Ask Ramsey. It's free. Ask your question@ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the description. Jada's in Sacramento. Hey, Jada, what's up?

Caller

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Dave Ramsey

Sure. How can I Help.

Caller

So my husband and I decided to pay off our $33,000 debt this year. And we've made $6,000 progress so far.

Dave Ramsey

Good.

Caller

So we're doing really well. And he's the one working. I stay home with our one year old, and he works a lot. He commutes almost two hours to and from work. He has a side gig. He's really busy, so he feels like he should have a good size allotment of fun money. We haven't budgeted up until this month. And so that ends up being $360 for each of us, which I feel

like is a lot, because I want to.

I'm the one who wants to pay off the debt. And so my question is, what do I do with that $360? I throw it at the debt. Do I try to save it? Do I, you know, go blow it somewhere? What should I do?

Rachel Cruze

Well, have you guys. Have you run out? I mean, how much that you guys have left?

Caller

27,000.

Rachel Cruze

Okay. I mean, if I were you, I think having some level of money right. For yourself, because you're gonna have to be buying, you know, there's things you have to buy throughout the month for yourself, which is fine. But just to blow money for the heck of it while you're getting out of debt feels wasteful to me. Because as you're looking and running out the numbers, both of you, I mean, the. The math is the deeper you sacrifice and the more money that goes at the debt, the faster you're gonna get out and the faster you can get back to a great life without payments. And so I guess that's a decision that you guys have to make. Cause the more you. You spend and just enjoy, the longer it's going to take you guys to get out of debt. And I know he works hard and all of that, and.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah, w. We all work hard. So. Yeah, that's too much. Y' all have too much fun money budgeted. I'd back it down. Less fun.

Rachel Cruze

I mean, it's almost 700 bucks a month.

Dave Ramsey

Yeah. Less fun.

Caller

Yes.

And so that was the.

The quote, unquote compromise. He wanted about 10% at first, which is just crazy.

Dave Ramsey

Well, he's not on board then. You're the only one doing that.

Aaron

This.

Caller

Yeah. And so it feels like if I.

Dave Ramsey

The problem is not the fund money. The problem is whether or not he's engaged.

Rachel Cruze

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey

Once he's engaged, then he. We don't argue about this. He's not engaged.

Rachel Cruze

Don't need a timeline.

Caller

And.

Rachel Cruze

And to say here's an aggressive way or aggressive time to get out of debt.

Dave Ramsey

He needs to believe that this is worth it, and he doesn't. Yet that puts us out of the Ramsey show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.