What's In A Name? The Worst Movie Titles Ever

Marina Hyde

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Richard Osmond

Exactly. You get to a certain level in the business where you don't want anyone to talk to you at all. And there are some people who are notoriously difficult to get hold of. Christopher Nolan, for example, is famously, almost completely. It doesn't even have a mobile phone. I mean, you literally cannot get hold of Christopher Nolan. He says. Of course he does. He's got a sneaky little mobile. Has he? Yeah, he's on WhatsApp groups. But he doesn't want you to know that. Should I tell who's easy to get hold of?

Marina Hyde

Who?

Richard Osmond

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Marina Hyde

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Richard Osmond

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Richard Osmond

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Richard Osmond

And I'm Richard Osmond. And for once we're not talking to Steven Spielberg or Tom Hanks, a major celebrity.

Marina Hyde

We are, we are talking to each other.

Richard Osmond

She's a little old us.

Marina Hyde

Well, I've missed it.

Richard Osmond

I've missed it as well. It's quite Nice to be back, isn't it?

Marina Hyde

Yes, it is very nice to be back. Are you gonna hit me with a question?

Richard Osmond

Yeah, I certainly am. And it is Jane Barrows. Thank you, Jane. She says, I've seen a few social media videos in recent past showing table reads from shrinking to Game of Thrones. Can you tell me what's their purpose? Who are they for? When do they happen in the timeline of a production? And would actors deliver their lines in character? Jane's question goes on for some while longer. There's lots of smaller questions inside it. But I think we can talk about the world of table reads.

Marina Hyde

Gan's saying that it looks. They do look super awkward. Well, they look awkward because obviously that is not the finished product. And in many cases that's the first. I'll get onto this. The first time those actors are seeing the scripts. I think with. Particularly with stuff like Game of Thrones. I know which one you're talking about. You're talking about like the final episodes where they discover where the actors are discovering effectively in real time what happens to their characters and who wins the Game of Thrones. And it can be very emotional. You can see people suddenly thinking, oh my gosh, hang on, I'm dead. Okay, it's been a decade of their life or something. But they are such a key part of the process. They do happen at different times, by the way. So it's not all the same. Normally they would happen at different. At the sort of very end of pre production of something. So. And it isn't ever the final script. That's part of the point of the table read. But if you're doing a series, it will be the end of pre production of that episode. But you're probably filming one of the others. Although funnily enough, last week I've got a thing in development and oh my God, I went to a meeting and they told me that they were going to do it, something internally. And then they said, well, actually it was really interesting when we. With the script, the last draft that I gave them when they said, yeah, it was interesting what people like that in the sort of. When we did the sort of table read. And I was thinking, oh my God, I'm so glad. I didn't know that this was going to be read up anyway. Almost people who were.

Richard Osmond

We've done a table read of it, not.

Marina Hyde

Not with actors, not with actors, but amongst. And I thought, I don't even want to ask about this because I just. That feels excruciating to me at the moment. So I don't want to think about it.

Richard Osmond

So they had it in the office, done a table read just amongst themselves. Oh, my God.

Marina Hyde

Anyway. Anyway. But that's not in general what you're

Richard Osmond

doing without you there.

Marina Hyde

But I knew that they were going to be doing that because they were going to feed other people who are not like the direct executives involved in this were going to sort of. They asked the general group. And it's very, very helpful because people who've never seen haven't had eyes on it at all. Because you do get in the weeds quite quickly, even if you're the detective, I suppose, in charge of things. It was really interesting, but I did think, I'm so glad I didn't know that was happening.

Richard Osmond

Can we explain what a table read is to people?

Marina Hyde

Yes. Table read is you get the script of an episode or I suppose, of a film. Everyone is sitting down. It's like a conference table or an oblong of table. You've got all the actors there. You've got all the heads of departments.

Richard Osmond

And by heads of departments, that means that you do the head of the sets, the head of makeup, the head of costume, lighting.

Marina Hyde

Anyone who's gonna have to do sfx. Anyone who's gonna have to do anything for this, you've got the writer. In my experience of doing it, you've got like the showrunner sitting there. And if it's your episode, you're sitting next to them at the head of the table. It's a big thing with American money that's being filmed over here. Then the very big executives from America will fly over and be sitting in the room as well, on chairs behind the big table. So everyone. It's a big and important thing. Somebody reads the state. Actors all do their own roles. In the answer to your question, do they do it in character? I would say they do it. It's varying. They do it in, I would say, 50%. They put 50%. They're seeing it often. They're seeing it for the first time. Or they've had chats with the director or chats with the showrunner about where they're going, you know, but they haven't actually seen the thing that's not the shooting script. Because you'll make a lot of adaptations from how the table read goes. I've done them always for comedy. So that can be, you know, something that you thought was your great joke doesn't get a line in the laugh in the room and something you didn't realize was a joke gets a really Big laugh. And you're like, oh, okay, that's interesting. I saw someone from Friends. I can't remember when I read this, someone who worked on Friends, saying, by the end of that, if the actors didn't like your joke, they would just absolutely ruin it by misdelivering it in the. In the table read so that it would then get killed. Some actors just literally just read the lines out in almost in a monotone. And they don't put everything into it. Others go quite big, but no one goes as big as you'd possibly go on set. It's much. It's not like that at all. Someone reads the stage directions. There's a person at the table read whose job it is to read every stage direction. But for me, it's really tempting to kind of. You want to mark up your script if you're the writer. Like this, you know, three, six. That one got a big laugh. That one didn't. But it's actually much better if you can not. You can avoid looking down the whole time. Sort of essentially like reading the subtitles. Because you want to hear it. You want to hear the rhythms, what works. And then you'll suddenly think, hang on, we really lost them. We don't see that character for quite a bit in the middle. And you can see by their face that they have also noticed that they didn't appear for quite a few pages in the middle. But a lot can change after the table read. I mean, if it's bad, you can have to go quite significantly back to the drawing board under quite a lot of time pressure.

Richard Osmond

Yeah. So the main thing about a table read, really. I mean, from our perspective, we would say this is for a writer. So the writer gets to hear the pace of the thing and the speed of the thing. And as you say, the feel of the thing. And the job is then to go, okay, now we're going to go and make that better. As you say, there are. There's also heads of departments sitting around. And sometimes you're thinking, why is no one laughing? And you think, well, because the person from wardrobe, literally all they're doing is trying to hear every time in the stage directions. They say, he is now wearing a fez.

Marina Hyde

Yeah.

Richard Osmond

And they are literally just writing down fez or so. And so, you know, walks out of the swimming pool and they're like, oh, okay, waterproof. Okay. So they. Everyone's just doing their job. And the lighting director is literally just going to. Okay, so that's outdoor. But then we transition to indoor. Okay. And that's all they're doing. So everyone is doing their job for a writer is the most important thing. We did a table read for the Thursday Murder Club play and that was dying for this, but that wasn't a full production table read. That was literally Tom Bastian and I had a draft that we were sort of. We had a finished draft that we knew was not gonna be the final thing. And we have a lot of friends who are comedy actors. So these just sat around in the West End in a really nice rehearsal room and just read the whole script out with very, very, very funny people.

Marina Hyde

It's so helpful. Yeah, I've done that at an earlier stage of things before, and it's really immensely helpful.

Richard Osmond

And in that situation, the actors get paid to do it. If actors are free and they know it's going to be a fun room full of people, they'll always come and do it because. And it was. It was such a laugh.

Marina Hyde

You had a great day.

Richard Osmond

We had a really great crew of people doing it. Really, really funny people. And, you know. Yeah, you work out what's funny. Work out. Oh, there's too much of that. There's not enough of that. And. And so we maybe did that six weeks ago. And I've literally only just finished the next draft.

Marina Hyde

The draft that was in response to that.

Richard Osmond

Yeah, that's in response to it. Because you finally go, okay, I hear exactly what's going on here. I know how to fix that. I know how to fix that. And just stuff that got huge laughs in the room, you think, well, that's great, but it has to go because it's not. It doesn't fit in. You know, by the end of it, I was thinking, yeah, come on, I need. Let's speed this up. Let's speed this up. So, you know, table reads are incredibly useful in that regard at the very early stage of the production.

Marina Hyde

But it's never going to be the night before.

Richard Osmond

Yes, but, but, but the Game of Thrones type ones, that is far more. That's a. Got everyone just sitting down, taking care of business as quickly as they.

Marina Hyde

And then by that stage, there was so much secrecy around that show and because it had gone ahead of the book, so no one really knew who would win the Game of Thrones. And so you wanted people. You wanted to have those reaction shots of people finding out what happened to their characters. And it can be. But I do agree that it is exposing for actors to have those sort of things filmed because, as I say, they're not giving 100% on purpose. And, you know, you're sitting in sort of tracksuit around a table and it's not the same as being like in Westeros. So I feel sorry for them that they've got a. You know, and it's quite hard to explain that to someone who's just coming to the whole thing. That's maybe why they look awkward.

Richard Osmond

Yeah. Often it's the first time you meet your fellow cast members and stuff like that as well, which is interesting. And, you know, you're usually sat next to the person you're doing most of your scenes with. But I remember when we talked to Ben Elton, he was talking about what nightmare the Blackadder table reads were. And because there were a lot of very strong voices in there, all of whom had an opinion on what they were reading, and you're like, oh, that's not what a table read is for. You could see Ben Elton just wanted to go, shut up. You know, honestly, just do it and then let me and Richard fix it afterwards, you know.

Marina Hyde

The next question is almost thematically related to that because I think it's interesting. And it's about Traitors in the West End. And it's from Araminta. Araminta says it's recently been announced that the Traitors will now be a stage production in the west end next year, 2027. How does a production company go about making a popular TV show into a staged production?

Richard Osmond

Yeah, it's. I mean, there's. I mean, there's so many different answers to that question. Firstly, you have to want to do it.

Marina Hyde

Yeah.

Richard Osmond

And you know the one that you can't accuse Studio Lambert of not trying to maximize income from everything they've got. And you've got a show that's as huge as the Traitors and they do a live Traitors experience, which everyone says is brilliant.

Marina Hyde

And I still haven't done. I'm ashamed of myself.

Richard Osmond

I'm so. I imagine they started exploring the idea of doing it on stage. How would that work? Now, we all know a simple way that would work. We do a cheap cash in version of it, which they don't seem to have done. Studio Lamb tend to do everything right. So you have to get a script, you have to get a producer, and you have to get a director and you have to get a theater. Those are the four main things you need to do. So it needs to be written, someone needs to direct it, someone needs to put the money behind it, and a theater has to agree to do it.

Marina Hyde

And a concept, because you're just not doing.

Richard Osmond

Although hopefully you leave that with the writer, really.

Marina Hyde

But you're not. But you're not. It should be clear that you're not sort of just resurrecting.

Richard Osmond

It's not. It's not gonna be Claudia just sort of wandering around the stage. If you have a franchise as big as Traitors, then obviously a lot of people want it to work and a lot of people will take a meeting with you. In this instance, this play is, I think it's called Traitors, Acts of Betrayal. The writer they've got is John Finnimore. And John Finn, I think is a genius. I mean, weirdly still best known for doing Cabin pressure on Radio 4, but, you know, did his own sketch show on Channel 4. And he's a great, great, great writer, John. So they immediately, rather than go for someone sort of big and mainstream, they go for someone who is very, very smart, loves puzzles.

Marina Hyde

Yeah, I was about to say he's. He's puzzle genius. Genuinely.

Richard Osmond

Who ever came up with this concept? I don't know, but the idea of it is the play always starts the same, but there are five different endings. I think someone was saying, oh, it's, it's the. You know, you'll never see the same show twice. And I think somebody else pointed out, well, you will because there's only five different shows. But anyway is the idea is, you know, you could go more than once and you could possibly see a different ending. So John Finnimore is writing it. I know someone, funnily enough, who did a table read for this and said it was terrific. So which it would be if it's John Rober Hastie is directing it. And again, standing at Sky's Edge, he's just like a proper theater director. And theatre directing is a. Is I've discovered from them from this Thursday Murder Club process. There's only about eight people who can do it, but it's like immensely complicated and difficult and it's sort of very, very different to being a movie director in some ways. There's something much more up close and personal about it. So they've got a great director studio Lambert, I see, are producing, I saw it, said that they're producing it themselves and I thought, hu. I mean, that's very brave. Cause again, producing a theatre show is very, very different to producing everything else. But then I saw that Neil street are producing it with them. And Neil street have done lots of theatre. That's Sam Mendy's and Pippa Harris's company. And then of course, they have a theater because John Finnimore is writing it and Robert Hasty is directing it and Neil street and Studio Lambert are producing it. So it's.

Marina Hyde

And the West End is in incredible health. We have to keep saying this. This is why so many things are. It's extraordinary. You know, I've said it before, but that sor of thing that you used to do, and if you wrote anything, the contract, like, what if it becomes a musical? It always used to just be a joke with writers. I'm pretty sure that originally when Irvin Welsh wrote Trainspotting, he didn't. Someone said to him, what if it becomes a musical? He'd go, a musical of this. Okay, you know, what if it does? We'll come to that. But it is a musical.

Richard Osmond

The offers we got to turn Thursday Meadow Club into a musical, I mean, like, a lot. I mean, you know, we're doing it as a. We are doing as a playback. So this is gonna be at the Gillian Lynn Theatre. It's called Traitor's Acts of Betrayal. I think it opens in 2027. But to answer the question, you have, I mean, a number of things. If you had a smaller piece of IP and you develop an amazing script, then maybe a director and maybe a theater would be interested with this. I think even if they'd done a substandard script, they would have found a director and they would have found a theater because you know that lots of people are going to come and see this. It'll be, you know, an event play. But it seems like. And it sounds like they've done the opposite and they've actually done something great with it as well. So, you know, I'm dying for it. I think they. They have high hopes. I imagine it'll be very good. I hear it's very good. And, yeah, it'll be in the west end in 2027. But, yeah, you. You have to want to do it, then you have to do it really, really well. And then someone has to give you several million pounds.

Marina Hyde

But look at the amazing things that have come. You know, if you look at something like my neighbor Totoro, which was extraordinary to have come from, I mean, it was absolutely brilliant. Stranger Things, the first shadow, all of these things. And they all start. They all start here because it's too expensive on Broadway. And lots of them then go all the way around the world. But it's really interesting to see how it's a part of our creative industries that is in mega health.

Richard Osmond

And the reason they do it and Studio Lambert is A good example here. The reason you do it is almost all plays lose money, but if you make money, you really, really, really mint money forever and ever and ever. I mean, you know, there's, there's, there's a reason Andrew Lloyd Webb has got such a nice house. You know, it's you, you can print money forever and ever. The reason you wouldn't do it is because it costs you a lot of money to put it on. But if you're Studio Lambert and you've got a piece of IP that is so powerful and so successful in this country, you know that other people are going to finance this thing for you and you're still going to get a very good deal. I imagine they've invested their own money in it as well because, you know, they would believe in it. But it's, it's a low risk way to sort of be involved on a poker table where the winnings could be absolutely enormous.

Marina Hyde

Let's go to a break now, after which I'm going to be considering some truly terrible film titles.

Richard Osmond

This episode is brought to you by the Lloyds 5k house deposit.

Marina Hyde

Lloyds are offering a 5k house deposit which was last seen in 1996. What are your entertainment memories of the 1990s?

Richard Osmond

I feel guilty talking about the 1990s because you look back and it was, it was such a golden era.

Marina Hyde

We've never had it so good. We didn't even realize because we were young and we just thought we were entitled to it.

Richard Osmond

We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah. Brit pop was absolutely in its pomp Oasis playing to a quarter of a million people. You had Blur swayed.

Marina Hyde

I'm so sorry.

Richard Osmond

Spice Girls, amazing movies at the cinema. Trainspotting. I mean, it felt a time of absolute optimism but at the time you just assumed that was the way that.

Marina Hyde

A very British type of optimism.

Richard Osmond

Yeah, but part of the optimism, of course, is that mortgages were more affordable and that is what Lloyds is, is dealing with right now.

Gary Lineker

Yep.

Marina Hyde

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Richard Osmond

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Gary Lineker

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Richard Osmond

Welcome back everybody. Chris Rand asks I'm interested in how film titles are determined. Two decent films this year I Love Boosters and Crime 101 have had poor box office numbers and I'm convinced it's because of their terrible titles. Could you explain how films with significant branding investment can end up with titles that fail to resonate with audiences?

Marina Hyde

Chris, I so agree with you on bad titles. It is extraordinary. Sometimes I have to say I haven't seen either of those. I know what they're about.

Richard Osmond

But that's why you haven't seen them.

Marina Hyde

Maybe. I also thought the trailer for Crime 101 looked like gibberish, so I didn't feel the need to.

Richard Osmond

Gibberish is a good name for a movie.

Marina Hyde

Yes. I mean, it could apply to many. But I totally agree with you. There's some sort of sense that the title doesn't matter. The title really matters for anything, any single thing. It's such a crucial element. It's the first kind of thing that a potential audience will have, will effectively hear about a film or anything or any creative property. It needs to have a certain stickiness because there's a lot out there.

Richard Osmond

Well, any creative project, you're constantly trying to nudge your audience in one direction or another and the. And the title is where you start nudging the Russian.

Marina Hyde

And you're so right. How on earth can it happen? Because we are talking films that cost tens of millions and sometimes even sort of hundreds of millions. I sometimes think that I don't want to be too unfair here because I do think there's a sort of confirmation bias. And when films flop, then sometimes you can say, oh well, you know, you can retrofit the idea that the title was terrible, but there were certain things that people thought would be a flop. I mean, I know that Tim Robbins was like The Shawshank Redemption. It's like a tongue twister. You can't even say it.

Richard Osmond

That is a bad title.

Marina Hyde

Yeah. And yet it doesn't matter because something, you know, and now everyone can say it very easily and name it their favorite film, et cetera. He thought it was just like. Almost like a tongue twister. There are others that you just think, I can't. There was. Do you remember that? There was that amazing Gabri Sidibi who made her debut in that film and she was brilliant in it. And it was called Precious Colon, based on the novel Push by Sapphire. Because there'd been some other film that nobody cared about or something called Precious. I mean, you've got to explain to me how you've. This is ridiculous. Okay. I thought like Joker, folie a deux. If I hadn't already thought that. Sorry, you're turning Joker into a. You're turning the incel film into a musical. If I hadn't already thought that was in a bit of problems, I would have definitely thought it once I saw that title. I actually, I mentioned this on Tuesday's episode. I don't think. Nope. Is a good title. That film is really, really good. And it's like. Sorry, what am I watching here? So I've tried to break down what the different types of bad title.

Richard Osmond

Oh, great.

Marina Hyde

I would say when it's sort of genericism to a ludicrous degree. So that film, John Carter. Sorry, Tom. It's just a name. Tell me what it's about. I have no idea that this is some kind of.

Richard Osmond

Sorry, that's a friend of my dad.

Marina Hyde

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's just ridiculous. I do not know what this film is. There's a couple of those Planet of the Apes ones that annoy me just because it's like Rise of the Planet of the Apes, dawn of the Planet. Like what orders this come in? And aren't they the same thing?

Richard Osmond

You can't have two of them as

Marina Hyde

well in the same sense. Just no ludicrous grandeur I cannot bear. So if I didn't already know that Quantum of Solace. Well, if I hadn't watched it was not going to be my favorite Bond movie. This is the one where he's in so much grief, Daniel Craig, over Vesper's death that he doesn't even have sex with a Bond girl. Okay. No wonder Sam Mendes came back with a one word cracking title. Skyfall. I'm not sure what it is, but it sounds very Bond. Yeah, I mean, I'm interested.

Richard Osmond

I'm assuming Bond is going to have sex with somebody in a film called Skyfall.

Marina Hyde

Yeah, I mean, it's not that hard in life, is it? You go around Star hotels and have sex with beautiful women. But anyhow, I don't. Like I've talked about under Explanation. Well, it's like, this is so generic. I don't even know what it's called. Carter, franchise over explanation. Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness. If you didn't know that Marvel was really going off the rails by that point. Also Ant man and the Wasp. Quantumania. No, those ones where you just think. Okay. Or. Or like something a Star wars story. Like, oh, I don't know, is it canon? Is it off world? Is it this or that? No, thank you. I don't need any. And I think the most. I think the one I think is the most egregious are titles that suggest the wrong genre. So Greenland. And I'm like, what's this? It's like, look, let's be honest. It's a Jerry Butler disaster movie. Let's just. Let's just call it what it is. Then I would have like, Extinction Event.

Richard Osmond

I've not even heard of it.

Marina Hyde

Yeah, I know.

Richard Osmond

Greenland.

Marina Hyde

It should be called Extinction Event or something like that.

Richard Osmond

Greenland has fallen.

Marina Hyde

Yeah, or Greenland. Or Jerry Butler does Greenland.

Richard Osmond

It's fine.

Marina Hyde

You know what you're getting? I want to know what I'm getting. Maybe the absolute classic of this for me is the Constant Gardener. Sorry, is this a spy movie? I mean, I understand if you love Le Carrie or whatever. I get it, but, you know, you're trying to get everyone in here. Yeah, don't. This is a spy movie. It literally sounds like it's a Jane Campion movie about a prisoner of war or something.

Richard Osmond

With that one, though, I mean, if we're going to talk about why films end up with bad titles, Le Carrie's not going to let you make that movie and change the title. And it's a great title for the book because in the book you can't fail the title.

Marina Hyde

Yes. Because you've got John Le Carrie on the COVID You haven't got that on the cinema.

Richard Osmond

It just refines doing something about gardening.

Marina Hyde

Yes. Maybe he's a prisoner. Maybe he's an Alcatraz. I don't know what's happening. He's got a tiny garden on the window. I don't know what's happening.

Richard Osmond

Is this Alan Titchmarsh the movie?

Marina Hyde

In terms of the next part of the question, which is, how does it happen? Honestly, the people with the power agree. And sometimes that might be the writer, as you say, sometimes it might be the author who's allowed you to adapt his brilliant spy novel. And committeeism, in my experience and many people's experience, can lead to madness. I actually think you should just know what you're getting. Movies that I mentioned in the Tuesday episode Barbie. Oh, I think I know what's happening here, Oppenheimer. I know what's happening. A Minecraft movie.

Richard Osmond

Dude, where's my Car?

Marina Hyde

I mean, people, that one was so bad, it was good. There is a, there is a genre of so bad it's good.

Richard Osmond

Dude, where's my car? And you know the follow up to Dude's my. Yeah, seriously, dude, where's my car?

Marina Hyde

Yeah, and that. Brilliant. You know, I told you I was looking forward to the horror that's coming in August, by the way. I have now seen it and it's absolutely brilliant. I'm desperate for you all to see it. It's so good. It's quite genre bending, but it's also very, very much an homage to the genre and very funny. That's called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma. Okay, I guess call it what you like, but okay. So I think you can sort of get away with those subtitles in maybe it'll just. Everyone just call it Teenage Sex and Death. But that is brilliant. That's written and directed by Jane Schoenbrauman. It comes out in August, but again, we'll see. It is a brilliant film. I absolutely loved it. I'm still thinking about it.

Richard Osmond

Oh, that's cool.

Marina Hyde

It's a lot.

Richard Osmond

We have, yeah. Spend a lot of time on, on the titles, I mean for my books and everyone's books and sometimes books will come out with titles where you're like, that's. I mean, how are you supposed to know what that is? But yeah, we've always spent a long time on titles and it's, you know, I'm very, very happy to involve as many people as possible in that. It's funny because sometimes they have to come up with the titles before I finish them. Sometimes just because, you know, the process of covers and things like that. And I will never let my publishers read anything beyond the first 20,000 words because they're sort of houdinity type books. So I want them to read it all in one. They'll come up with titles and they go, yeah, that's. I mean, that's going to give away the killer, just so you know.

Darvi Einarson

Or.

Richard Osmond

Yeah, that has literally nothing to do with what's about to happen. And, I mean, God bless my publisher, they do keep out. And they could give us any hints that I go, yeah, maybe something around this sort of area. But it always. You have to have a title that at least, you know, the Bullet that Mist, the man who Died Twice, even the Thursday Metal cup at the first point. Just. Just things where you go, oh, okay, There's a little something to get your teeth.

Marina Hyde

I can understand it from the title. Sorry. I mean, these things do seem basic, but with some of these film titles. I agree.

Richard Osmond

Yeah.

Marina Hyde

I. You know, I love Boosters is a terrible title and I think it was quite funny and good.

Richard Osmond

Eddington is a film I've read so much about. I have no idea what it is because I just think I'm not. It's just. It's called Eddington.

Marina Hyde

I agree with you. You're not giving me any. Unfortunately, in a very crowded marketplace, you have to. So I agree with you. And thank you for raising that Chris round.

Richard Osmond

This segment is brought to you by Lloyds.

Marina Hyde

Marina Lloyds are offering a 5k house deposit, which was last seen in 1996. What made 1996 such a huge year for British pop culture? And it was massive.

Richard Osmond

Yeah, it was massive. I mean, by the way, that's an amazing idea.

Marina Hyde

Yes.

Richard Osmond

You know, I just remember, like, when we were in our 20s, you didn't have to put down a huge amount of money for a house, which was handy if you didn't have any money, which I definitely didn't. So, yeah, 1996, it feels like the year that everyone harks back to when we're kind of going, it was just before Blair got in, but, you know,

Marina Hyde

so there was a sea change in the air.

Gary Lineker

Yeah.

Richard Osmond

And it was, you know, and we felt this optimism would last forever. So thank you to Lois for bringing some of it back.

Marina Hyde

There was a thing that people always used to say about the 60s, which was that the swinging 60s was actually 17 people in London and Mick Jagger. But it didn't feel like that in the 90s. And in 90s and 96, it was very. The whole sort of Britp. All of these things were a much more democratized movement and they all joined up the football, obviously, it was the Euros. I might be able to talk. I'm still quite upset about it.

Richard Osmond

So Brit pop started sort of early 90s, and it was sort of very cool. And it was. It was very kind of left field and it was suede and blur and pulp. But then Oasis, when you get to 96 Oasis suddenly are playing to a quarter of a million people at Nebworth. So this thing that was very, very British, very, very cool, very, very optimistic, that crossed different classes suddenly became absolutely the heart of mainstream culture. And difficult to think of an example of that happening in the years since.

Marina Hyde

No. And it was internationalized in American magazines. You know, there's a famous Vanity Fair cover of like Patsy Kensett and Liam Gallagher lying on the front of it under some sort of Union Jack sheets. And things like the movies were train spotting came out and the soundtrack for that was amazing. Obviously Underworld, but it was Pablo all on it that became the sort of second highest grossing British film of all time. It is hard to explain to people how that was a sort of cultural and incredibly cool idea. But Danny Boyle sort of exploded into everything with that.

Richard Osmond

Yeah.

Marina Hyde

And it felt much more a time of possibility.

Richard Osmond

It really did. I wish I'd known at the time that I was living in a golden age.

Darvi Einarson

Yeah.

Marina Hyde

Because it seemed like what you've got though, actually. I mean, you know, one of my favorite TV programs of all time came out in 1996, our friends in the north, which was very reflective in looking back really. It was kind of 1996, 1964 or 5 to 1995. And it had Don't Look Back in Anger playing over the final credits of the final episode. But that was looking back over, you know, the previous decade. So you didn't necessarily, you know, there was, there was, it was a time of reflection, but it was a forward looking time for definite and to give

Richard Osmond

the people who were RA then now hope it's cyclical because the 70s were pretty awful. I mean I loved them because I was a child.

Marina Hyde

Yeah.

Richard Osmond

But you know, it wasn't a hopeful and optimistic decade. Decade. And then, you know, 15 years later, suddenly you've got this incredible rush. I mean one of the great decades. It all comes round again. It does all come round again. And you have to thank Lloyds for perhaps kick starting this with their 5k house deposit.

Marina Hyde

Yes. Lloyds are offering 5k deposit mortgages to first time buyers.

Richard Osmond

To find out more, search 5k First

Marina Hyde

Time Buyer 1996 average first time buyer deposits based on on data subject to state status. Your home may be repossessed if you don't keep up Repayments conditions apply. Question from Danny Marchant who says in films with enormous VFX monsters, how do they film the actors interacting with things that don't exist in the real world?

Richard Osmond

Thank you, Danny. Well, I think a very, very good example of this is interacting with the dragons on House of the Dragon. So we put your question to the VFX supervisor on House of the Dragon, Davi Einarson, and here's your answer.

Darvi Einarson

So the design of the drag really begins from the script, which is ultimately derived from the book. So there will be a description of the dragons and it's not just the visual description, it's also like the character. We then work very closely with Ryan Condo, who is our showrunner. He will kind of talk us through what kind of characteristics. Add or subtract something from the, from the traditional kind of description of it, and then that becomes a 3D model. It becomes textured. You put a skeleton in it and add musculature and then the movement is a big part of it as well. So it's a very multi, layered, multi step process. You know, we'll have on set, we'll have dragon performers. So they're. I mean, they're fantastic. You know, they are really kind of behind the scenes and never end up on screen. But they are people with some kind of a performance or acting background. And, you know, we basically show them the previz. We talk about the character of the dragon. And then they'll get in a blue suit and they'll hold a pole with a fiberglass dragon, blue dragon head on it, light enough for them to be able to kind of move around and manipulate. They basically perform the dragon movements. And you know, sometimes it's for an eye line for the actor. Sometimes the actor would go and kind of put their hand on the dragon head or kind of run up and interact with them. We try not to subject them to making the noises. You know, sometimes we'll have the director on the mic. We call it the God mic. So it's like when you're looking through them on, you can kind of have a microphone on speakers that people on set can hear. The director might shout or I might shout, you know, some kind of version of the dragon sounds or kind of cue the performance beats. It's hard enough to keep everyone focused on someone in a blue leotard, let alone if they're kind of making dragon noises. It's a big exercise in suspension of disbelief. You know, any small thing, anything that bumps can just kind of trigger you to kind of step out from that. And then you kind of dismiss the scene. You know, in a lot of these scenes are. You'll. You'll have like one of our key cast interacting with a dragon. And it might have to be a very emotional scene. You know, and you're kind of creating a dragon that has character, and you have to have kind of blow some life into them, not just how realistically rendered they are and how realistically comp. They are, but also, like, the. The mannerisms and characteristics. And, you know, it needs to feel like a. I mean, I often talk about giving the dragon a brain when we're kind of reviewing things. You know, like, you need to make. Make people believe that there's a thought process going inside there.

Richard Osmond

Thank you so much, Darvey. That was fascinating.

Marina Hyde

It is fascinating. It's really weird when you see it. It's undeniably quite comic that there are people in these green or blue suits. They sometimes just have to have a head on a pole really high up, because obviously the dragons are enormous and you can't look in the right place, but it does look kind of absurd. And it was the same for, like, Thanos in the Marvel movies, where you actually see Josh Brolin and then this kind of huge thing going much further up. It is kind of a weird thing to have to do. And some. Some actors absolutely hate it. And I just, like. I'm not moving into this kind of CGI world where almost nothing is real and very little, the whole frame is effectively not practical. Sometimes people will try and insist on doing much more sort of practical stuff. I know they've done building incredible practical sets for Elden Ring that Alex Garland is directing. That's out at Elstree, I think, and it's extraordinary. Often it can all be completely green, and then you've got someone in a green catsuit or blue catsuit and a not particularly advanced head on the top that the actor is having to interact with.

Richard Osmond

I love hearing from people like Darvi, though, because it does, and we talk about it a lot. But you realize that, you know, the public facing people on movies, you know, the directors and the actors and stuff, but behind the scenes, the extraordinary talent of people and what they do and how much they care about and how much thought they've had to put into things and how if they do their job brilliantly, it makes the film better. So I absolutely love when people like Darvey tell us what it is that they do, because you just go, it's. Everybody has to be rowing in the same direction to make a brilliant TV program or make a brilliant movie.

Marina Hyde

That about wraps us up for today, if you haven't listened to it yet. The final episode of the Vibe Shift, my series with James Canagasorium, came out yesterday, and it's about the sort of end of Pete Woke and where the zeitgeist is going now. Other than that, we will see you next Tuesday.

Richard Osmond

See you next Tuesday. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and you in Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, set up required compatibility and availability various 18.