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Gaz (Host)

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Pick up.

Gaz (Host)

FEES may apply. Hello and welcome to the Rest is Football. On today's show, we've got Joe Cole, Micah Richards, Alan Shearer, and a very special guest, a doctor who, Christopher Eccleston. And we will be discussing one of the great World cup games. And the brilliant performance from Cape Fernie wasn't quite enough against Argentina, but what a go they gave it. And don't forget, if you'd like to see the show, you can catch us on Netflix.

Narrator/Storyteller

Every day.

Gaz (Host)

Reigning champions Argentina needed extra time against an extraordinary heroic Cape Verde in Florida. But in the end, Argentina provided too much Miami Heat. Welcome to the Rest Is Football. With us tonight, we have Micah Richards, Joe Colan. Not one, but two legendary number nines. Alan Shearer, of course, and the ninth, Dr. Christopher Eccleston. Is it Christopher or Chris?

Chris Eccleston

It's Chris. Yeah. Yeah, Christopher. Just For. Just. For. Just for work.

Gaz (Host)

Why?

Chris Eccleston

Oh, they'll take you a bit more seriously, you know, the middle classes and the Oxbridge lot. With my accent. Right.

Gaz (Host)

None of that in this room.

Chris Eccleston

Yeah, I know, I know. We're all councillors here.

Micah Richards

We are. We are.

Chris Eccleston

Pretty sure I'll relax, then.

Micah Richards

Yeah.

Chris Eccleston

Him. He's Council of State.

Gaz (Host)

He is, yeah.

Chris Eccleston

Gotta be.

Narrator/Storyteller

Oh, proper on a stage. I love it. Hey, but look at me now. Netflix, baby. Brilliant.

Gaz (Host)

So, what a game we just saw. I mean, in all honesty, the first half was quite drab and the game was slow, but, boy, did it kick into life. What a game, Chris.

Chris Eccleston

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I feel a bit bad because I always. I always support the underdog, but I didn't want to lose Messi from the World Cup.

Micah Richards

Yeah.

Chris Eccleston

So I feel like I betrayed the underdog there. What an effort that was.

Joe Cole

I'm with you there. If they were playing any other team, I'd be right behind them. But I just want to watch Messi last few times at the World Cup.

Gaz (Host)

But to be honest, even in defeat, it was a victory for them because to do that kind of performance against the defending champions, not to be beaten in 90 minutes by any team in this tournament to score two great goals, and the second one in particular, you know, to draw after 90 minutes against Argentina. To draw after 90 minutes against Spain. I mean, wow, Micah.

Narrator/Storyteller

Oh, it's just absolutely amazing. But I think they had more quality than people actually give them credit for. I know they had a few draws, like you mentioned, but the energy, the quality when there was the goalkeeper as well, who everyone's mentioned throughout the tournament, but his composure on the ball played it out. And then having the little triangles, I was so impressed with him. But I knew it was coming for Argentina. I just knew it. I just knew they could all always produce that moment of magic, whether it was going to be Messi, whether it was going to be one of the top players at the. I felt so bad for him. But we love Messi, don't we? We love Messi. So it was one of those things. It was a great performance.

Micah Richards

You said it, though. I mean, to not be beaten in the 90 minutes.

Chris Eccleston

I didn't realize that.

Micah Richards

And Argentina and Uruguay, and also those

Joe Cole

are the two things.

Gaz (Host)

It's a little pointer here, if you look at the qualification, because they topped their group ahead of Cameroon and kept them. I mean, that's a decent footballing nation. Cameroon, I know from my own experience, so they had a bit of form coming in, but you couldn't have Imagined them doing what they did. And as for the Sydney Lopez Cabral, a name that we'll always remember. What a moment. What a goal, Joe.

Joe Cole

It's unbelievable, isn't it? Yeah. When he run up into the stands, I thought, he ain't coming back yet.

Gaz (Host)

You see him, I figured, who's he looking for? And he couldn't find his missus.

Joe Cole

What I loved about it, the ref just let him have his moment.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah.

Joe Cole

You know, it was a brilliant, beautiful moment. And let me tell you, he'll be getting paid every four years by FIFA. They'll be dragging him out and he's earning himself a right few quid there. He deserves it.

Gaz (Host)

Him and the goalkeeper.

Joe Cole

Yeah, yeah, both of them, they've changed their lives.

Micah Richards

Yeah, yeah.

Gaz (Host)

I mean, but they. I mean, yes, they played a low block and they made it very difficult for Argentina, who were a little bit pedestrian and looked a little bit lacking in pace and energy and maybe the weather, it was 30 odd degrees there in Miami. But they not only had a low block, but they also had a go at times. And even when it was three, two down, they went really close a couple of times towards the end, the attitude

Micah Richards

that they showed, and then getting and committing men to get into the box and trying to win it. Because when Argentina scored, we thought, yeah, that's it, they're done. And then they come back to one all, and then Argentina score again and you think, oh, that's it, we're all expecting. Then they come back again and then even still, when they get the third one, we're all thinking, that's it. Goodness me. Then they keep on going. I mean, what a story. It's incredible.

Gaz (Host)

There's something about real life drama in sport, isn't there? I mean, you're in that world where obviously it's written and scripted, but in

Chris Eccleston

football, sometimes football always throws up stuff that if you scripted it, you wouldn't believe. Rejected. It'd be rejected. I mean, the footage of the Capo Verde kids crying, we were looking at

Micah Richards

that at the end.

Chris Eccleston

And that little lad.

Micah Richards

Oh, no, it's beautiful.

Chris Eccleston

The magic of the world.

Micah Richards

Before the tournament started, I was slightly worried that the quality might suffer. But forget that. This is the story. This proves that. I think the story that throw it out of it is that it's been amazing. It's been just incredible.

Gaz (Host)

Do you think, Micah, that the level of, let's say the smaller nations in football has kind of crept a bit closer to the big, big footballing nations overall?

Narrator/Storyteller

Yeah, yeah, I think it's A a good point. I think tactics is coming to that. I think weather's played a big part. I think I said before the tournament starts, it's going to be very hard to play end to end football. And I think teams now are a lot more disciplined. We use the word low block a lot, but if you get it right and then on the transition you've got legs and you've got energy, it can work. But I think the gap is definitely getting shorter. And when there was 48 teams was all having a little bit of moment, we. A little bit of grumble and you know, people were saying the competition is not really going to start to knockout games. But with Cape Verde, especially with a goalkeeper, when they got that draw against Spain, it was almost like, wow, we didn't expect that. And then everyone had eyes on it. And I just think it's been a fantastic tournament for from start to finish. Of course, in the knockout rounds it's going to get even better. But I think it's been really good right from the start. And you can see that gap, it is definitely getting shorter.

Chris Eccleston

What's going to happen in four years? The effect, the progress that the African teams have made in four years time.

Gaz (Host)

I wonder whether they go 64, they're going to go again, go 64 team. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I think you said that. Was it you that said this? No, it was. Harry Maguire said the start of the tournament, he said, I think it should be 64. And I thought, well, what you. That sounds ridiculous, but actually given the level of the smaller punch, but also to make it fairer for the. In the group stage where, you know, the 32 teams that finish either first or second go through. We're just going to bring Alex Aljo in. She wasn't at the game, but she was with a lot of Argentinians in Queens. So how was that night? It must have been a bit tense at times.

Chris Eccleston

Alex.

Alex Aljo

Yeah, Gary, you'd be forgiven for thinking we were in a neighborhood in. In Buenos Aires, not in Queens, in New York. What a night we have had here. A giant screen behind us here on the street. Argentinian fans singing, dancing, celebrating, fireworks. Splares at times. Although they went through a whole range of emotions, there were also tears, they were also praying because Kate Verde made it so tough for them tonight, didn't they? And Kate Birdie can certainly go home with their heads held high. I actually interviewed their manager Bubista after that goalless draw against Spain, that first group stage game, and he said to me, we are here to show the world who we are. We're going to be brave, we're going to be bold. And that's exactly what they did. That Cabral Colasso is going to go down in history, isn't it? And what about Senior? What a story that is. 40 years old. His first ever World Cup. He says he's been fighting for this moment. He's going to go home with 19 million Instagram followers. I was actually checking his Instagram account during the match and he gained over a million followers just during that match. It is pouring with rain here, but they're still dancing behind me. What a night it's been and what

Gaz (Host)

a pro Alex is, because she just put her earpiece in so that she can now hear my response to that. Well done. Bear with us, Alex. I'm going to bring in the guys. I want to talk to you, Joe, about Messi's goal. I know he's relatively quiet tonight. A chance he missed, but oh my goodness, an appreciation of that skill, please.

Joe Cole

It's one of them, Gaz. I think as a footballer, it's so difficult to do what he done there. For the naked eye, it looks good, but it's so impressive because he's had to calculate as the balls come over the fullback's head, it's about to bounce and he knows he has to leave it just a meter from his foot. So to have the wherewithal to understand where the goalie is and just take enough off it and then just as. So it's there, then roof it into the top like. I just love him. I just absolutely love him. It was half beautiful half volley, half full volley.

Gaz (Host)

That was a half volley control almost

Chris Eccleston

in the six yard bonus.

Gaz (Host)

It was an incredible bit. What was the reaction of the Argentinian fans when he did that?

Alex Aljo

Alex, Messi, Golasso, it just erupted here. These fans just in awe. In actual fact, I actually saw a man with tears streaming down his face at that moment as well. There was fireworks. They're in awe of Lionel Messi, aren't they? Argentinians all over the world.

Narrator/Storyteller

Yep.

Gaz (Host)

20 World cup goals.

Narrator/Storyteller

Do we agree that's a half volley then, Gaz? That's what that is, a half volley, isn't it?

Joe Cole

Half volley.

Narrator/Storyteller

And then finding this non nonsense. Absolutely.

Gaz (Host)

And then it was a shot control. Yeah, he controlled it as it ball bounced.

Micah Richards

Can you switch your goal?

Chris Eccleston

It's controlled it on the bounce.

Gaz (Host)

I mean, we've got another one on our side in Chris here. I don't know. You're out Nothing. I know nothing about football.

Chris Eccleston

I bought Man United.

Gaz (Host)

Were the fans. I'd be interested to know, because we know what we're like as England fans. And I'm sure fans around the world are the same, Alex, that when you're watching your own team and they're not playing particularly well, and Argentina weren't playing anything, like, at their best in this game, and if it were England, we'd be going, oh, this is terrible.

Joe Cole

This is.

Gaz (Host)

Were they frustrated? Were they wondering what the hell was going on?

Alex Aljo

I think as England fans, we're sort of ready for the disappointment, aren't we? We expect it and we're like, oh, here we go again, kind of thing. Whereas with these Argentinians, they were sort of in shock, you know, they were just sort of looking at the screen, not speaking, not talking. None of them left. I feel like England fans sometimes just would walk out and leave the pub or wherever they were watching. Here we Go again. But no, they all stood there believing, for sure.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah. Alex, we're going to let you go. I hope you're going out with the Argentinians now.

Alex Aljo

Absolutely. Absolutely. Vamos,

Narrator/Storyteller

vamos, vamos.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah. While we're on the subject of Messi, he took the corner, obviously, for the winning goal, and it was headed in by Romero. And then it was, for some inexplicable reason given as an own goal to Borges. It flicked off his hand. It might not be. I don't know why they need to do that. All you're doing is ruining a Romero's moment to a degree. But Borges has now scored the own goal in the game and it wasn't necessary. And also, actually, the other interesting thing is that Messi took the corner. That would have been nine assists in World cup history, which would have taken him above Maradona, who's on 8.

Joe Cole

He's only.

Narrator/Storyteller

Well, Gaz, you keep talking about the law, though, don't you? If the header's going wide and it comes off someone, then it's an own goal, isn't it? Is he? End of assist.

Gaz (Host)

I don't know how you measure that. I don't know how you measure that when he's that close and he heads it and he hits his hand like it would have been a penalty if it hadn't gone in. I would have understood.

Joe Cole

Micah, have you heard about Gaz's layoff record? He's got the layoff record 41.

Narrator/Storyteller

Oh, we're not getting that again.

Gaz (Host)

That's the only one he's got left.

Joe Cole

And we're waiting for Messi to break that. We're counting layoffs now. I've got my little notebook going. That's 27.

Gaz (Host)

I'm telling you now, you don't need to do layoffs when you can play. When you shit. All you need to do is lay it off to someone else to do the magic. And that's the secret.

Chris Eccleston

So Messi doesn't get the.

Gaz (Host)

He doesn't get the. I think under the way. I mean, now he would have done in times gone by, of course, but it's now it's all data and all programmed. I mean, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid if they'd been just given the gold to Romero, would they?

Joe Cole

Yeah, but certainly not Argentina's.

Gaz (Host)

Are they lacking. They're lacking something. They don't look as strong as. I mean, you know what they lack?

Micah Richards

I think they lack a little bit of pace. And I think that's. That may cost them. Clearly you can never. Whilst he's in the team and playing Messi, then you've got to give them a chance. But I just think at times they just lack that bit of sharpness.

Joe Cole

Alvarez, when he comes on, I think he gives them.

Gaz (Host)

He needs more energy.

Joe Cole

More energy, more legs. But apart from Al's, Right, apart from that. When you compare them with a pace that the French have got, or even us, you know, I think they're going to struggle as the game opens up, but they've got an announce and that counts as something. They seem to know how to win in difficult situations.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah. One final word on Cape Verde. They were the third smallest, actually, the smallest nation ever to get to the knockouts. Our third smallest to actually be in the competition. I mean, they can go home as like kings in their country, can't they? And I think in football you either win or you lose, but I actually think in defeat, they have won, Chris. I mean, obviously they're not going to win a tournament, but to do what they've done is truly incredible.

Chris Eccleston

But if I was playing for that team, I'd feel patronised by that. I'd still.

Gaz (Host)

I totally get that. But let's be realistic.

Chris Eccleston

They're gonna be gutted.

Joe Cole

Yeah.

Gaz (Host)

Oh, they'll be gutted.

Joe Cole

Yeah, they'll be gutted now.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah.

Joe Cole

But as time passes and they realise what they've done. Cause there's 48 teams in this World cup, only one team can win it. So that means 47 teams can't be disappointed. Cape Verde have got to be like. It's got to be one of the stories. They're champions as far as I'm concerned. Because you can't compete with France, I'm

Chris Eccleston

gonna be supporting them in four years time.

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Gaz (Host)

Well the countdown is on to England versus Mexico in the round of 16 and the anticipation in camp is building. The two players playing for the left hand side, Gordon and Rashford. What's it like when you think you're competing with someone for a place? You've talked about it before, but they're obviously close mates and they wanted. And actually they could end up being a similar thing at Barcelona, bizarrely. But it's difficult, Gaz.

Joe Cole

It's like. I think it's modern football now. This is 16. I think in your day there was less subs, weren't there? And it was like you was in or. So nowadays every manager makes five subs. And, you know, I think with Marcus, I think it might actually be easier for Marcus and Anthony Gordon, because I think Thomas Tuchel's been clear. It's going to be 60 minutes and 30 minutes. And Jose did that was the first one to start rotating when we was at Chelsea. It was me, Robin Duff, Shaun Wright, Phillips. And it bred like anxiety, but also like a real intent. Like you had to make something happen within the 60 minutes because you know if you didn't, you're off and you're off. And even if you was on fire, you might only stay on for 70, 75. So. But it breeds competition and it's healthy and I think these boys are used to it. Now.

Gaz (Host)

Is it a bit like Chris, like when perhaps two or three of you go in for an audition for a big part and you want them to do badly and stuff like that.

Chris Eccleston

You want them to do as bad as possible. I mean, I'm odd. Cause I've never really. I've never been somebody who's thought, oh, I could do that better. I've not been like that. But, yeah, it's intense and, you know, you see them coming out in my day. It's changed now. Cause it's all auditions are taped now. But in my day, you went. You went to the building and you'd see your rival walking out.

Micah Richards

Yeah, yeah. Listening to the activity in the hotels and the noise and they mentioned. Do not be surprised if we read over the next couple of days when England arrive, about fire alarms going off in the hotel. We've all had it, haven't we?

Gaz (Host)

It was ever thus, wasn't it? You just deal with that. You just get on with it, don't you?

Chris Eccleston

Got to.

Joe Cole

Whenever we played your team, Manchester United, someone in the hotel. I won't say the name of the hotel in Manchester. A little. A little Herbert somewhere. Must have been a Man United fan. Marriott in Worsley, 102am like, you always set your clock, like alarm would go off. We'd all have to come down and like.

Chris Eccleston

Yeah.

Joe Cole

Then you get back to bed and the hotel manager. I'm sorry about that.

Gaz (Host)

Is that when you saw Diego Maradona?

Joe Cole

Yeah, that was on one of the many occasions you could meet anyone on a fire alarm breaker. But it was. It like. It got to the point where it sort of riled us up because the hotel manager would be like, apologize him. But you must say, you must know who's done this. You do, you know what I mean? Yeah, probably was him.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah.

Chris Eccleston

Sorry about that.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Cole

Probably Fergie getting them in there. Do you know what I mean?

Chris Eccleston

Yeah. Fergie leaning on the fire alone. Yeah.

Micah Richards

Chris.

Gaz (Host)

Well, I know you've got a bit of a view on the England midfield.

Chris Eccleston

Oh, you've heard about that?

Gaz (Host)

Well, you. You kind of said, can I talk about England's midfield? I want to know what you. What you're going to say.

Chris Eccleston

Play Declan Rice at. Yeah, right back.

Micah Richards

Really.

Gaz (Host)

Mainoo's good.

Chris Eccleston

I love play Mainoo. Play Eze. Yeah.

Gaz (Host)

Well, you're. You're a big fan of Manchester United.

Chris Eccleston

I am a big fan.

Gaz (Host)

I know you are and you would.

Chris Eccleston

Can I ask you though? I. I want to. I want Declan Rice fallback, bring Mainoo in.

Gaz (Host)

I'm not sure about Declan at fullback, but I. I do see. Oh, I did say suggest it the other day and I was laughed, almost laughed off air by Micah because obviously it's not a position he played. I think he could perfectly well play there and I think with Anderson and Mainoo, I think it actually those two together would give us a bit more stability and would keep the ball better. You might lose a little bit of. I mean, Declan is such a good player and he covers so much ground. But I do get your point and I'm actually quite surprised Mainoo's not featured a little bit. Certainly more than perhaps he has.

Micah Richards

I'd be amazed if he made that choice.

Gaz (Host)

I don't think he'll make.

Chris Eccleston

So who's he going to play in midfield then?

Micah Richards

I think he'll play Rhys and Anderson.

Chris Eccleston

Right.

Micah Richards

And same with Bellingham just ahead of them. And he's got the choice of either Spence or Konsa at right back.

Chris Eccleston

So he's not going to disrupt it at this point.

Micah Richards

Well, if he puts Consa in there, he's bringing Storns back in, which is another achievement.

Gaz (Host)

I think their main threat is down Quinones, Quinonez down the left hand side. So he might want to put someone a bit experienced.

Joe Cole

Whoever plays right back is the most important player on the pitch because Quinones is the top scorer. That's the Saudi league. But we've seen him, he scored goals in this tournament.

Micah Richards

He's got Three already in this tournament.

Joe Cole

Three already. And everything they do on the break goes through him. Now, if he concert plays, he has to be brilliant 1v1 or Spence. He has to be brilliant 1v1. They are the most. That is the most important. If anything, I'd play one of them. 2.

Gaz (Host)

Hey, tell you what, we've got to this with England now. We think the right back is the most important. That's all we ever talk about, who's going to be bloody right.

Joe Cole

The right back's the most important player because if he performs, I think that nullifies 25% of their threat.

Gaz (Host)

Chris, I want to ask you about your football background. I know you're a Manchester United fan, but you've also worked on screen with a couple of star. Eric Cantona. You did something with. How was that?

Chris Eccleston

I did Eric's first English language film, which was Elizabeth Cate Blanchett.

Joe Cole

Oh, yeah.

Chris Eccleston

In Elizabeth. He'd done one other film, he'd done a French film called Happiness is in the Field. The camera operator, big Tottenham fan. And they're the guys who see you, they're looking down the lens, said Eric was terrified. Which was interesting for me to think of.

Gaz (Host)

I was terrified just doing that.

Chris Eccleston

Terrified.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah.

Chris Eccleston

Well, you should be Garrick.

Gaz (Host)

I know

Chris Eccleston

he was because it was the first time he'd worked in English language. And he said he was walking around muttering the lines to himself. And for me it was difficult cause I was a season ticket holder for 30 years, followed Cantona and I couldn't speak to him. Richard Attenborough, who was in the film, was chatting away to him. I think he was chairman of Chelsea.

Gaz (Host)

He was at Chelsea.

Joe Cole

Big Chelsea fan.

Alex Aljo

He was.

Chris Eccleston

I couldn't speak to Eric and everybody was taking the piss out.

Gaz (Host)

Were you in awe of him? Completely. And didn't you also.

Chris Eccleston

I don't give a monkeys about actors. Right.

Gaz (Host)

Didn't you also.

Chris Eccleston

Meeting footballers. I'm gonna say it. Listening to you lot talk about football is fascinating for me.

Gaz (Host)

Yeah, not so much our acting, obviously. No, but you also work with the Law man. I mean, I worked with Dennis Law.

Chris Eccleston

Said I made a joke about Dennis Law's the size of Dennis Law's nose. And he said to me, I haven't got a big nose, I've got a small face. And then he said, he said if me and you stood back to back would be a pickaxe. What was interesting about Dennis was we went to the publisher for lunch during the shoot, it was a low budget shoot and he was, he was so polite with everybody. Signing autographs. He didn't like it. And I'm interested in asking you lot about introverts. You know, people who were in the dressing room wouldn't say boo to a kiss.

Gaz (Host)

Well, don't ask Micah cause he's definitely not an introvert.

Chris Eccleston

Is it true that you know that you see a different character sometimes on the field than.

Gaz (Host)

Oh God, yes.

Chris Eccleston

Is that true?

Gaz (Host)

Absolutely, yeah.

Chris Eccleston

Could you give us example?

Gaz (Host)

Mark Hughes, right? Mark Hughes, quiet, nicest bloke you've ever on the pitch. Turned into a like monster, like strong and you know, ball scores.

Micah Richards

Yeah, great example. You must have seen him, my favorite

Chris Eccleston

player of all time.

Micah Richards

He was very different. Only on the pitch he was like. And then he was quiet. I know it's different now when he's doing all this different stuff, but Micro knows someone.

Narrator/Storyteller

You won't like it because he's a Liverpool player, because he's a Big Red. But Steven Gerrard off the pitch, honestly, he didn't say anything. He just walked around with aura. And everyone knew he was an incredible player on the pitch. He used to wrap the ball into you if you couldn't control it. The look that he used to give to you, he'd be like, come on. It was so aggressive and the tackles that he used to go into it just set the tone for everything. And it would come off the pitch and he was just the nicest, calmest, Wouldn't say anything to anyone. Sort of just chilled out person you could ever met. The contrast was massive. Steven Gerrard. What a guy. What a guy he was, what a player he was.

Chris Eccleston

You get that with some actors. You get that with some actors who. They only come alive when they're playing a character. And it sounds contradictory but, but a lot of actors, I'm not, I'm pretty extroverted, but a lot of actors are introverted.

Gaz (Host)

I suppose that's also because you get used to being someone else all the time.

Chris Eccleston

Yeah.

Gaz (Host)

Rather than. You never play yourself, do you? That's it for this episode of the Rest Is Football. We'll be back after England's game. Let's hope they're still in it.