The Basement: Jeremy Corbell | Betrayal, Surveillance, and the Secret Higher Than Nuclear Weapons

Interviewer

Today we're sitting down with Jeremy Corbell, documentary filmmaker and investigative journalist who spent over a decade chasing the UAP story from Bob Lazar to the halls of Congress. And Jeremy didn't set out to do any of this. He was a martial arts instructor and artist before a mystery illness that left him fighting for his life forced him to start over completely. He has a near death experience and becomes an artist. I've survived three divorces. No art, just day drinking that led him straight into John Lear's living room, then to George Knapp's door, and eventually to putting a camera in front of Bob Lazar for the very first time. I said the entry fee to UFO disclosure was fixing an old man's toilet. He explains the whole government, honestly, today we get into all of it. How he earned trust with people who trust almost no one. What it's actually like getting worked by intelligence agencies using what he calls false friendship. Intelligence agencies faking friendship for information. So basically Facebook and the whistleblowers he's helped bring in front of Congress, some of whom paid a real price for it. He's got some wild stories, Some he can back up, some he can't. I had a great time with this one. I think you will too. Let's go down to the basement. Jeremy Corbell, welcome to the basement.

Jeremy Corbell

Thanks for having me in the basement.

Interviewer

I'm excited.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

First question is a two parter is what kind of art do you make with your own blood? And do you use any other bodily fluids?

Jeremy Corbell

It's gonna be that kind of party. Here we go.

Interviewer

I mean, that's crazy. What's going on?

Jeremy Corbell

That was a phase.

Interviewer

That's a crazy phase.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Wow. Well, no, I wanna know. Yeah, no, you've done some research. Have I said that public? So the. Yeah, the whole art thing for me was a total fluke. I can't draw a stick figure. You know, I met this beautiful artist who became my wife after many years and. But how we met was, you know, I had been doing jiu jitsu my whole life and martial athletics, you know, since I was nine years old. And I got super sick is the short version of it. And I could no longer do the, the things that, you know, I was passionate about. I, I thought that's all I would ever do with my life. I had school at UC Santa Cruz and that expanded out into the world. And I was a young kid and, you know, had everything I could ever want. And then, you know, getting really sick. It changes everything for you when you're a physical person. And I was going crazy man. And moved back to LA and just start disassembling computers. They were on sale like a stack of six computers at like a Fry's Electronics, like old school kind of ones, the big monitors and started taking them apart, putting them back together just as a physical thing to do. I, I can't explain why I was just doing it, you know. And I started seeing my whole neighborhood was being demolitioned and at the time in Santa Monica because I had hadn't been back in, you know, 15 years. So I started taking windows and doors out of these construction sites.

Interviewer

Salvaging before the wrecking.

Jeremy Corbell

Salvaging, right, salvaging. And then one time a contractor caught me and was really pissed. You know why? It's just I think if I had gotten injured or I was going in there with like full on hammers and crowbars.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, like getting through fences.

Interviewer

That's where the blood comes from.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, no, no, that's a different story. But anyway, so that's kind of the origin of that is I was just kind of trying to find something to do with my hands. And oddly enough I had a garage that opened up onto, in Santa Monica, onto a main street. And I just kind of had nice tatami mats and heavy bag. That's what I thought I was going to be doing. But then, you know, heavy bag comes down and I start putting these windows and doors up like on the walls and painting them and installing lights and these computer screens. I figured out how to separate the computer screens, do all this stuff. So I started rotating imagery and sound. I don't know what I was doing, I don't know what I was doing. And then I got mistaken for as an artist. And literally a guy walks down the street and he goes, are you an artist? And I remember going, I'm a martial artist,

Interviewer

right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know. And then he goes, well, did you make these? I'm like yeah. He's like, have you shown them? I'm like no. He goes, do you want to? I'm like, maybe I didn't know. I really didn't think that people would do that, that you, you know, I didn't know what I was doing. So back to the blood. So at the time they were taking blood draws all the time because I had the valley fever thing and I was on all these medications and they're checking your blood, blood. And it was some chick that drew the blood, said that's really pretty color blood. It is kind of cool. Can I have some and she, like, filled up some vials on them. So I used that as a. You know, it was. I don't know, I used that in some of the, you know, kind of constructed pieces. And I resined over the blood. You know, my mom actually has, you

Interviewer

know, you can buy red okra.

Jeremy Corbell

I know, I know, I know. I don't know what I was doing, dude. It was weird. So that's the only bodily fluid, but

Interviewer

yeah, taking apart computers is interesting because your grandfather was a watchmaker, right?

Jeremy Corbell

How do you know all this? Did you.

Interviewer

Did you ever see him work?

Jeremy Corbell

Not because that.

Interviewer

Those people are amazing.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Not. Not on, like, watch it. He. Later in life, he was doing more import export and he was, you know, kind of getting into like, jewelry trade and real estate. So I never. He. I was really young and he was born in 1903 or something, so he was really older by that time. So I never got to like, see him work. But I saw a lot of the products that he created and stuff. Yeah.

Interviewer

Did you know you got that from Grandpa?

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know where. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not like a technologically savvy person, to be honest with you. It was more just like, you know, this screw goes. Here, take this. It was just a mental game and it was something like, I lost my identity, man. I don't know if you've ever had that experience in life, but it's like, you know, you think you are what you do and you think this is the one thing and the one way your life's going to go, and that. That's what. That's what I thought. And then when that was just stripped away from me, I had to figure out, what am I like, who am I if not this guy that trains martial arts, you know?

Interviewer

Well, everyone knows you for being world class martial artists, but.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, world class. I was not that great.

Interviewer

Dude, you're pretty.

Jeremy Corbell

Trained a lot.

Interviewer

You're pretty good. You're pretty good. It's a big part of my life as well. And you really. You're pretty. Oh, for 30 years. What'd you do, catch Kempo?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, man. So you know the whole. Yeah, yeah.

Interviewer

I trained for 30 years. I taught for 20 and was full time for 10.

Jeremy Corbell

I should have done my research on you. What? I didn't know that.

Interviewer

I don't really talk about it because it sounds stupid. Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

It was a very developmental thing in your life. I mean, doesn't it help you when martial athletics. Right. Didn't it. You started when you were young didn't it help you, like, focus and, and teach you how to think and changes everything?

Interviewer

Yeah, because which is on my, like, list to talk to you about is you kind of go into martial arts when you go in young, at least for me. You start out, it's kind of like hot shit. And then when you take it seriously, it becomes your identity and it really chills you out.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

It gives you confidence and discipline. And I think I see a lot of that in your work still. But I want to know why you got into jiu jitsu in the first place. When you're a kid, every few decades, there's a moment where the smart money and the everyday saver end up wanting the exact same thing. This might be one of those moments. 39 trillion in national debt. Another trillion printed every few weeks. Stagflation isn't a headline anymore. It's just what's happening in your paycheck. Look at where the money's actually moving. Gold's up around 35% over the past year. Silver's up 125%. The stock market about 27%. Bank of America is now forecasting silver at $309 an ounce. Top banks are projecting gold at $6,300. These aren't fringe predictions. They're coming from the same institutions that spent years steering people away from metals. Now here's the part most people don't know. You can move an existing IRA or 401k into physical gold and silver. No taxes, no penalties. That's what Goldencrest Metals does. It's a boutique firm. No call center, no script, script reading. Just real people walking you through it. Free portfolio review, free info guide. Zero obligation, no pressure, no overselling. No talking down to you or around you. You get straight answers from real people who care. Go to goldencrestmetals.com the Y Files or call 888-949-9172. That's goldencrestmetals.com, the Y Files or call 888, 949917 for your 100 free info kit.

Jeremy Corbell

Sure. I mean, probably for all the wrong reasons. Like, like you. You know, it's like I was uncontrolled. I had uncontrolled energy. My parents did not know what to do with me. You know, I was like one of those kids that would like, kind of see white and just, you know, taste metal in my mouth and just go crazy. And I remember that my first introduction to martial arts was I come home from school and my big brother was messing me and I just Go to punch him in the face. And. And he does something and he just takes me. Bam. And I hit the floor and all the air was knocked out of me. I couldn't breathe.

Interviewer

Did he execute a technique on you?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it was like a hip thrower.

Interviewer

Oh, wow. Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I just, like, I threw a punch at him. He smashed me on the ground. And I looking up at him, and I was so impressed, you know, I'm like, how did you do that?

Interviewer

Right?

Jeremy Corbell

You know, and he was like, jiu jitsu. I'm like, what the heck? So that's kind of how I started. I. I was younger than him, so I used to. I actually got in trouble. Used to skip school to go train. I had to get on a bus to go all the way out to the valley, right? Because I was in Santa Monica. And the teacher at one point caught on that I was like, how did you get there, you know, in that amount of time? But that. That's how I started. And so I was kind of training at this high school before I was in high school. And I. I will thank my brother for smashing me that one time.

Interviewer

Of course.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. That's how I started. And it just gave me. It gave me focus, man. Like, you try something a thousand times and someone else has only tried it, you know, a hundred times, and you're gonna pull it off. So it taught me that.

Interviewer

Oh, yeah. If you want to skill, you gotta drill.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay. Repetition's a mother of skill. Yeah, absolutely.

Interviewer

So why did you end up in Nepal and getting sick, right?

Jeremy Corbell

How'd you get there?

Interviewer

Why. Why did you even go there? Because you were still a kid, right?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I mean, I'm still a kid. I don't know. Yeah, I was young then. Well, okay. I said out loud because. Okay, so I had this, like, great thing going, right, where I had this great school, had satellite schools, really great community of people loved what I did. But I just felt this thing where it was like, is this all that I have inside of me? Which is fine. Like, I will do this and I will keep. Get better and better at it. I love it. But I said out loud, is this all that I have inside of me? Is this my life? Is this the path that I'm supposed to go on? Like, I swear to God, saying it out loud, it was like the universe answered, right? I used to take my students on two trips every year down to Mexico, Mazatlan, and we would train the Sinaloan swat, right, that. On hand to hand, non lethal stuff, and then just have, like, A big party and do some festival stuff where you, you know, demonstrate. You should do a lot of demonstrations, like juvenile hall. All the flipping stuff you show, that's not the normal stuff. We train. That's for show that.

Interviewer

Sure. We had demo team.

Jeremy Corbell

Exactly. Yes. You said we would just do demos, you know, around the world and like,

Interviewer

don't try this in the alley.

Jeremy Corbell

No, no, no, no. It's just, it's to excite the minds and inspire kids that there is another way. Because that, that happened for me. And one of my teachers along the way was, well, my primary teacher. One of my primary teachers was Sensei David Meyer, and he was all into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and at that time was super new and I didn't know anything about it. And as he's learning it, he's teaching us as well now. He's like coral belt or something, you know, he's one of the top dogs, the Dirty Dozen, they call him. But I was learning that in the embryonic stage, it was not mma. Like, people know now you had to train boxing, wrestling, judo, kenpo, jujitsu, whatever, Aikido. You train everything, bring it together. You had to like, lie to the sensei's that you were only studying with them. It was weird.

Interviewer

You kind of do. Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

You. At that time, it was very different. We had. You had to kind of shield that you were doing these other things. So I guess why I found myself in Nepal is because we do the thing in Mexico every year with a bunch of like, you know, kids from university with. But we'd also go to Thailand and, and train Thai boxing and massage and all that stuff. So I did my normal trip that year. And then I just remember feeling like I gotta just go, you know, somewhere where I'm not me. You know, just like go walk and not fall right back into that role of like, I'm teaching Jiu Jitsu and all this stuff. So I remember going to the passport people or whatever, the visa people, and, and being like, where can I go, like today? You know, and they're like, well, you, you, you know, you can't get into, like, India takes seven days. We're going to go today. And they're like, nepal. I had never heard of Nepal. Like, I wasn't one of these guys thinking, I'm going to go, you know, to east and like, walk the earth. I just wanted to go somewhere where, like, you could get there today. So they're like, Nepal. Nahu, Nepal. Okay, cool. So I remember getting this, having to go get some Cash and I go. And I had no idea what I was walking into. I land in Nepal, and if I recall, there was some major event happening where some bombs or something had gone off from in. In the city. We can look that up some. But it was during that era.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And I was like, you know, where did I land? It was so mysterious. It was totally bizarre to me. A totally different culture. You ever been? No, it beautiful. I mean, one of the coolest places that I had ever been. But my whole point was just to get out of myself, just to get away. Because when you have, like, hundreds, if not thousands of students over a decade, it's like people always calling you Sensei or this or that. It's not who you are. It's how they see you. So I'm there in Nepal, and I imagine eventually I'm going to, like, go down to India, because I'd never seen it before. You know, I traveled a bunch for martial arts, but you don't get to see places when you do that a lot. You get to see the inside of a dojo. Right. So I remember I go up to this, like, monastery or something, like a Tibetan monk monastery. And first thing that happens. This is so bizarre. It's like midnight. I'm walking down the hall, trying to get away from who I am, to discover who I am or something. And down the hallway, you. Not. I hear somebody go, sensei.

Interviewer

What?

Jeremy Corbell

I swear on my life, bro. So what happens is the student. So this guy starts walking down the hallway, and again, it's super late. Your room was, like, the size of, like, this table. Basically just a bed in this little monastery. And you get. And some dude I knew from Santa Cruz, California, was leaving at that time. And I just. It was like a cosmic joke, you know? I was like. It was so shocking to me, and so I had to absorb that. And I was like, okay, well, here I am. So I stayed for a little while in Nepal and.

Interviewer

Are you training?

Jeremy Corbell

No, I was just trying to just see the world differently, you know?

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And somewhere along the way, they. Because I wasn't feeling sick at that time. Everything was fine. I make my way to. To poon? No, for first of Varanasi. Do you know about Varanasi? Okay, dude, look at a travel book. Varanasi, AKA Very nasty. Oh, no. A place in India where you go, and if you die there, then you're not reborn into karma. So you're. You're instantly what they call, like, enlightened. You don't have to be reborn as a Human. So imagine the number of people coming there to die. So. And that is, you look it up in guidebooks where I had no idea, you know, what I was walking into. So you see there people at death's door. You see their bodies being cremated. Cremated. You see them being put into the Ganges. I think there's two types of people that don't need to be cremated. Sadhus, like holy men and pregnant women, because the babies are pure or something. Everybody else, you know, they do this burning. They've kept the fire alight for thousands of years, they claim. Right? Yeah, it is like from the funeral pyre. And they bring it over. So I. It was kind of like shocking, right? I mean, I had been all around the world. I'd been in slums. This was just a culture that had existed for thousands of years I was totally unaware of. So I'm there. Do you want to hear the weird stuff? I mean, do you want to. Yeah. This is not about UFOs, but this is weird.

Interviewer

We'll get to that later.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay.

Interviewer

So this is a sacred place.

Jeremy Corbell

Yes, a very sacred place where you're not reborn into karma is how I understand it. Right. That's. That's my understanding of it. So you do see a lot of death and dying. And I stayed a pretty good duration there, so I really got to know it. Like there are these cafes where the flies were so intense. I would put a. Like a shirt over my head to eat the meal on the river because there's so many flies because it was just not sanitary. And then this sadhu comes down next to me. He was a white dude, but like full sadhu stuff. And he like looks at me and kind of smirks and I'm like, okay. And he takes his dish and he puts a sugar cube on it and puts a little water. And all the flies got attract. Look like molten flies. And he was just eating and smiling at me. So I was like, oh, there's a trick to this life. What's going on? You know. So I just kind of met a lot of characters and then the most strange part of the trip was. You know how I told you I said that thing aloud? Right. Is there more for me? Well, I was. People ask you to come get chai or tea in their homes. This guy had kind of made friends with me and known him for a few days. Took. I have photos of me and the guy. Like, he's like this nice guy and then he brings me to get tea in one of these homes. And it was this absolute Knowing that they were going to poison me. It was this. It was this feeling of, like. Almost like you could hear it, like, trust needs to be earned. That's what I kind of heard, you know? And I just remember breaking all social norms. I stood up, put my hand on the guy's chest. He's a little guy. But it just put my hand on. I just go, trust needs to be earned. Right? When I said that, these two dudes come in, big dudes come in, and you could just feel it, like, the gravity of it. Like, I didn't drink the chai, and they were expecting me to drink it. Now you have no proof or evidence, so you just feel like, did I make that up? It's better to be safe. What the heck? My mind was spinning. I walk outside, walk for a couple blocks, and I see this female who's sitting on the curb, crying. She. I could tell that she was a foreigner. She had, like, bright red hair. Shout out to Anna Remington, by the way. So that's who it was. I'm still connected to her through social media, and I had seen her and her friend earlier that week because there were not a lot of tourists at the time. There's on season and off season, apparently. And. And I had. At this point, I'm in India, and it was off season, so it was like, you could tell when tourists are there. You recognize them, right? Why is this girl crying? So I went up to her. I said, what's the matter? She says, my friend was poisoned with tea, and she's in the hospital, and they took her passport, and I feel like they're keeping her sick through her iv.

Interviewer

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Corbell

And I'm like, what the. So that immediately I was like, who they look like? What? It was the same group of people.

Interviewer

What. Why would they do that?

Jeremy Corbell

Now I know. Okay, so. So what happens is go to the hospital, create a big stink, you know.

Interviewer

You did?

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, I did, Yeah. I went with her. Right? Because you're kind of, you know, girl alone in India. There's me. So you go there, make a big stink. And it was the first time that I'd seen, like, armed guards at the hospital. Something just ain't right. Like, they got her passport, all stuff. And the. The girl, Anna was saying, you know, when my. When my family finds out, like, you know, they're going to get the embassy involved. Implying to me that she has some sort of connection in England, where she's from. And I was like, I had no idea what she was talking about. Sure enough, some badass bitch comes in from the embassy with two other people. Immediately they get that girl out and they're like, will you, you know, escort them to Delhi? I was like, when are you planning to go to. I didn't know where I was going, so, yeah, no problem. I'll take them. So that's how I became friends with those two. Turns out if you just read one of the guidebooks. One of the things they say in the guidebook is be careful of poison in the chai. It is a known scam at the time in Varanasi. If I had just read a guidebook. Right. This is like pre Internet stuff.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

So. Or, you know, pre. It was like you had little Thomas guides, whatever. But like, you literally crack open the book and they told you about this scam. So what the scam was was they make you sick, you know, and they're like, oh, well, cholera. They tried to pretend you got cholera. They take you to the hospital, they keep an IV in you, that, that pollutes you or makes you, keeps you. And they milk the insurance money and then take it out. You're good to go. So it was this known scam, but I did not know about it.

Interviewer

That's crazy that you felt it, though.

Jeremy Corbell

I did. That was a something. One of the times in my life where just. I feel like something just saved me there, man. I don't know what. Intuition.

Interviewer

It's martial arts. Situational awareness, maybe. Just something doesn't feel right here, man.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And it was almost, it was almost more than that. It was just something I felt like I only had a couple experiences like that in my life where you get information that there's no logical way for you to have obtained it, you know, But I guess that kind of leads to my sickness had nothing to do with that.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, they, they think I got it like from disturbing of the soil. Like one night I was like slept out on the road, you know, the farm area. I, I, you know, I was just a kid kind of in a way. And then also, like in the caves, like, if there's like bats, they'll just stir up dust or something. So I got spores in my lungs. And the thing is, it got really bad. And I didn't know it was bad because I wasn't like looking in the mirror and stuff. I was just kind of like walking and I started feeling really sick. I remember calling my family, being like, something is really wrong. And, and how I learned that was I was in a room. I went down to Poon, India. You ever Hear about that?

Interviewer

Nope.

Jeremy Corbell

Super weird place. There was this guru called Osho, and I was like, you know, I had read some of his books. I want to see what this dude was about. Turns out he was dead anyway. But it was like this cult, man. These big old pyramids. They run this whole city called Poon India. And so it's this bizarre thing they like. You know, I went into this compound. I. I had spent a few days just kind of reading books and seeing what. It just felt so creepy, and it felt so culty. And so I was kind of like, maybe that's the start of the investigator in me. I was like, what's going on here?

Interviewer

You know, and you're sick when you. When you're.

Jeremy Corbell

No. So I'm fine.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

And then all of a sudden, imagine

Interviewer

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Jeremy Corbell

I. I go to bed, and something doesn't feel right. And then I must have been. I woke up and my bed was just completely drenched, wet with sweat. And I. I had been hearing, like, chimes and stuff, and I started talking with my buddy Ricky. And we're talking. It was like he was there. I kind of woke up out of this, and I realized it had been like two or three days, and Ricky had been dead for a while. Oh, Jesus. I was hallucinating from a fever, so my brain was cooking, man. So I. It was. It was in. It was in my body. And they call. They got so nervous. They're going to have some dude die in this, like, cult ashram, kind of weird place. So they sent in a doctor because I wouldn't. I wouldn't go to the hospital. Well, be. Because of the experience, because.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

So they're like. They sent us some doctor. Do you have a fever? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know my whole life. Ever had a fever? How would I know? You know, I did. I really didn't know. She puts, like, a. A thing in my armpit to test my fever, and it was 107.

Interviewer

Oh, no.

Jeremy Corbell

In the armpit. So that means your brain is cooking.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, so they panicked, and they shot me in the butt with some, you know, remedy or something to reduce the fever. And it was like. Somebody just yanked my head out of the water. It was like this instantaneous like. Like, consciousness, you know? I was like, well, I got to get out of here. So they. They said, okay, you. We have your passport. You need to drink this much water in this many days. Like, I have video of me lining up the water, you know, doing like, a little video to myself, you know, like, I just got to drink this water. I'm getting out of here, and I just pound in that water. They gave me back my passport, and I left.

Interviewer

Why'd you have to give him your passport?

Jeremy Corbell

You know, I don't know. Back in the day, maybe because it was a cult. It was like. It was a. I wouldn't want to give that up, bro. I was so dumb. I'm a little smarter now. But at the time, to enter this compound, I guess you had to, like, give them your passport.

Interviewer

You're in your 20s, right?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

So you do. You'll do anything.

Jeremy Corbell

You're invincible, dude. Yeah. Totally invincible. Yep. And. And so that's the long way around. It is. That happened again a couple more times where they had told me, you just have some bacteria. It's different here in India than it is in the US So you take stuff for your lungs, you know, to, like, bronchitis medicine, antibiotics, and you'd feel better for a little bit. But then it did happen two more times. And then I realized, oh, I'm. Something's really wrong.

Interviewer

You got to get home.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. You got to get home.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And it was the first time in my life I ever flew business class. And I thought it was such a party, and I couldn't. I couldn't enjoy it.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, you have this, like, nice seat, and. But I was. I was just dying, dude.

Interviewer

He's passing up Champagne for. I just need water.

Jeremy Corbell

I literally was like, they must have thought the dead man on the plane, you know? But, yeah, I remember getting back, and they immediately discovered that it was a coccylitis. I don't know the name of it, like, valley fever. And it had gotten from my lungs. It had damaged my heart, my kidney, my liver. It had actually started coming out. I got little scars in my arms because it came through the. This. The skin had gotten so bad. So they were even at ucla. They were worried that it had progressed too far. So they give you a pill that's like an antifungal.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And. And a bunch of other. Other stuff.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

And then very slowly, I started kind of regaining my energy. And it's right about that time that I started doing the computer things and painting and then.

Interviewer

You can train anymore.

Jeremy Corbell

No, dude, I could not like, to walk down the block and then harvest a door would put me down for a day and a half, two days, because the amount of energy had sucked out of my body. I was skinny as a rail. I was just really fucked up.

Interviewer

You not depressed?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Well, that's a whole nother thing.

Interviewer

Right. Your identity is destroyed.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. That's. That's the next. The next thing that happens. Yeah. Is your. You kind of get back to, okay, I can move, but who am I? What am I doing? So there's absolutely that loss of identity and ego, which is the best thing that ever happened to me, you know, You.

Interviewer

Is it?

Jeremy Corbell

It is. Because the one thing I learned from all of that is that we are not what other people say we are. Right. Praise and blame is all the same. If someone doesn't know you, like your family, you should listen to people that really know you. But if they don't know you, they're filling in voids about who you are, and usually with false things. And it also taught me that we are not just the things that we do, that the things that we do are because of who and what we are on the inside, man. And so you can apply that to anything. If you're fastidious and you study physics books and then you do a podcast, all the things you do right, those are just expressions of who you are. And that's a deep spiritual lesson for me. Whatever that word means, it just. You know, it taught me that we can live many lives and that we can apply ourselves to almost anything. And if we're diligent, we do it a thousand times and not just a hundred times. That, you know, the only failure you're gonna have is not trying. So that was the best. The best lesson of my life. And I met my wife through it all, you know, because she's looking at this, some dude making what she thinks is art. Like, inside of this.

Interviewer

It really was art. It was amazing. You do multimedia presentations?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, yeah. I just make a joke because I can't draw a stick figure. My wife can actually paint. Paint. Amazing, creepy, weird stuff. She can do all this stuff with her imagination. For me, it was more like a physical trade than it was, you know, that I saw. Like, jiu jitsu is an art to me, but it's very mechanical.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. So you kind of. It's like paint by number. You just. You learn what the next number is.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

Do it a thousand.

Interviewer

Do it a thousand times, and then you earn another number.

Jeremy Corbell

That's right. You discover another number.

Interviewer

That's true. And you're always learning. These are themes that I see in your story coming up all the time, and that's salvage. And another one is, because you just kind of alluded to it, is the unflattening of a story, how. How people are always flattened into a story. Whether it's David Grush or it's Bob Lazar, their story gets flattened.

Jeremy Corbell

Like, you mean that's what. That's what you are. That two dimensional thing?

Interviewer

Yes. So what I'm getting to is Sharon Tate's story was flattened and you unflattened it.

Jeremy Corbell

Whoa. Yeah.

Interviewer

Can you tell. Can you tell me about that?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, that.

Interviewer

That piece that you did.

Jeremy Corbell

This is going to sound like my whole life is an accident. And the thing is, it might be. You know, it's weird.

Interviewer

I think it's all programmed. You're following the. You're following the program, man. It's all good.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, that was a weird detour as well. So that odd thing was I had been doing these little art shows and installation shows in la, and it was a really fun, really creative time in my life. And I was meeting. I met my wife, met. Met a bunch of friends. We kind of created this community of, like, doing these art shows. Take over, you know, a motel in Hollywood or something, and line the walls with, you know, newspaper. I love the L A Times for some reason, Newspaper everywhere. I just love the L A Times logo. You know, we'd fill it up, you know, girls in sunglasses, like crazy themes. And then. And then. Okay, this is a weird one. So, you know, I used to do something called warrior yoga, and it was like yoga for athletes. And why I called it that because I used to Teach in juvenile hall. So you had to get these kids attention. So I'd say if you don't stop doing push ups, you'll have free training for life. We're right up here at the university. All students come pick you up, you're good to go. So the idea was to get them to not repeat the habit. Get them out doing something physical and good. So a lot of kids came out of that.

Interviewer

I don't think a lot of people know that. You did that for juvie kids.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I did it for me too.

Interviewer

Yeah, of course.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

But why did, why did you choose to do that? Were you. Because you weren't, right?

Jeremy Corbell

No, I was good at not getting caught. Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. No, I mean, I. I never was institutionalized or anything like that, but I think it was that. I think I met a couple kids I knew about the program and I just asked one day, I'm like, can I just come and teach some martial arts? And they're like, nope. I'm like, what? Like, we can't teach them wrist escapes. Right. Okay, that makes sense.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

And so I just started this kind of, you know, whatever balloon program, this little thing. They were very unsure of it, but it was just like, let me give them a. A good martial arts workout. We called it warrior yoga. So they would think it's really cool.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

And let's just see how it goes. And then my buddy, this guy, Frank Shamrock, he's a fighter, used to, you know, of course, good friend of mine, I trained with him a bunch and he trained with, also with us, a bunch of the yoga and the breathing stuff. And he taught me so much about how to move in martial athletics. And he had been institutionalized. You know, he was in prison at one point. So I brought him in and the kids knew because at the time he said so it became this really popular thing, this huge program. So I kind of. I think I just started it with the idea of, you know, let's see if we can give people something they can do other than this. But then it just grew, man. It just grew. And it was, it was, you know, a lot of, A lot of people benefited from it. And I. It was just. It was a fun thing to do.

Interviewer

That's why my favorite part of my career was teaching, like boys who are like 14, 15, 16, 17, who were just, they were just pains in the asses and just slapping them around and, and just setting them on that path. There's a lot of boys that need that.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I did.

Interviewer

I did too. You Got to direct that energy. And now you do it positively. And if you stick with it, you learn discipline, you learn respect. And I to have parents coming and thanking me for, you know, for kicking the. Out of their kids for a year, it's a. It's amazing what you did.

Jeremy Corbell

They'd get good too. Man, they start kicking my ass.

Interviewer

Oh, oh, yeah. The girls, too.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

I took some lumps. You invented a massage system. Restoration massage therapy.

Jeremy Corbell

Did. Didn't invent that. That was like, so.

Interviewer

Well, you have a registered trademark, right?

Jeremy Corbell

So. So because at. At the time, for jiu jitsu, yoga and all this stuff, when you're in that world and you're creating these systems for university students, you trademark it so you could create all the educational materials around it. So I actually started training and learned massage at. Starting at the age of nine as well. And that was because my original school, they had five teachers, and they're all from a variety of disciplines. And they always, you know, bestowed upon us that if you learn how to, like, disassemble and you learn how to do the martial athletic stuff, then, you know, you need to know how to heal your own body and help other people. So that was. I don't know if it is today, and I don't think it is today. In the same with mma, it's much more a sport now.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

But at the time, it was very valuable. Like, you. You do all this stuff for your fitness and health with what we called war yoga. But then with the massage, it was this guy named Okazaki out in Japan, and he had created this Okazaki massage style. He. He had a student named Sig Kufarov. This guy was out of the Bay Area. And they all trained me in this kind of bodywork style, which is very useful because you mess something up, you know, you have ways to heal it. So that was kind of the, you know, the triad with the martial arts was the yoga and then the massage and. Yeah, I taught that, you know, 10 years at a university and again, schools all over the place. It was a great life. I learned so much from it. I loved it because it was. It was a creative thing. But, yeah, that's how. Oh, Sharon Tate, you asked about. Right. So that's a. That's where we were going. Yeah, it's a weird one. So what happened is because she's known

Interviewer

for the one thing.

Jeremy Corbell

She's known for the one thing. She's known for Charles Manson. She's known for being murdered in 1969 and the whole world two dimensional flat story. Right, right, exactly. So how that happened was I had done an art show and this producer from Inside Edition, you know, says, hey, you know, we need a photographer. It gets even weirder. Like, there was this. There was this studio, and when I was doing the warrior yoga thing, Lululemon, I guess, was like, you know, will you come be an ambassador? You know, and we're going to take some photos and put your photo of you. An ambassador. I'm like, okay, do. Do a yo class inside the studio. I'm.

Interviewer

You're the Lululemon ambassador.

Jeremy Corbell

At one point I was. They had a bunch of them local ambassadors or something. It was just. It was a weird thing, man. I didn't know what was going on.

Interviewer

Just go with it.

Jeremy Corbell

It went with it. So I start, you know, starting to feel better at that time. So I was like, sure. And I met this guy in this photo studio, this little Iranian guy named Peter. And he was like. I thought he was like a grip, you know, he was just kind of hanging out as they were doing their thing. But we really hit it off, man. We. We sat outside, we're talking for a while and. And I had that in the back of my mind that there was this guy and his super nice guy named Peter.

Interviewer

Well,

Jeremy Corbell

I'll get there because it's such a weird road. But what happened was I go overseas and I start doing. Just taking the shitty little camera and doing a new art series I was going to do. I had a show all set up when I come back.

Interviewer

Is this a camera that was gifted to you?

Jeremy Corbell

No. So that was. That's like a video camera. This is like a still camera.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. So I just started, like, taking these photos. I was going to call this series, like, Women in Sunglasses. And, you know, I was young, I was out, you know, in Europe at this point, and I just went for a little while, and then I got robbed of all my equipment in Prague.

Interviewer

How did that happen?

Jeremy Corbell

I come back from going to watch Oceans, whatever. Like one of those heist movies.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And I had left in my room in a safe, my camera equipment, my hard drives, and I actually had bought some, like, suits or something like that. So I had like a couple cool suits. And I just had this gut feeling, dude, get back to the hotel. You know, something like I just had that fear, like, something isn't right. Get back to the hotel. The door was smashed in, the safe was wide open, and somebody had just. And there was like three security. It was like a hostel, but there were like three security doors. And then there was this, like, private, you know, room with a big door. And somebody had come in and smashed everything and stolen everything.

Interviewer

Are they getting this safe?

Jeremy Corbell

Great question.

Interviewer

I don't like it.

Jeremy Corbell

No, I don't like it at all. So up come the stairs. There's this gigantic Serbian dude, and he's like, do we have a problem? And I'm like, yeah, we have a problem. And I. I like. I knew instantaneously that this guy was a part of it, right? So my dumb ass pushes him up against the wall. He was. And he just, like, smirked at me, like, there's nothing I could do to this guy. He knew something that I didn't. And it was frightening. Next thing I know, these investigators, these cops come up and they were like, you're going to jail.

Interviewer

You are?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And I'm like, for assault. Well, I was like, why? And they're like, because you don't have identification. I'm like, yeah, my passport was just stolen.

Interviewer

Oh, dude.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. So all this to say what happens is I make, like, my emergency call, and I wasn't holding for 72 hours. I have all the paperwork for it.

Interviewer

You weren't holding for three days?

Jeremy Corbell

They gave me a candy bar. They gave me a candy bar. None of them spoke English until the. The third day.

Interviewer

And they spoke English. They knew English.

Jeremy Corbell

They sure did. And anyway, so what ended up happening was an embassy guy, you know, comes up, says, we're gonna, you know, get you out of here. Gonn you an emergency passport, you're going to go home, right? I was like, that. I'm going home. They stole everything that I had. It's, you know, all my work, everything. So I decide I'm going to investigate what's going on. I start loitering around the place. I. I talk to the girl that runs the cameras at the thing. She. She starts crying. She's telling. She slips me a note, and being like, you know, all the footage is gone from that moment. You were set up. It's. And now I know exactly what happened. But these are the situations I used to really get in when I was an idiot. So what happened is they. They assigned an investigator to me that's a local guy, and he's standing there. And the big Serbian guy, he owns the hotel. So eventually, I confront the guy with the. I call him Inspector Crusoe because he was not trying to help me, right? And the Serbian dude says, you know, people get killed for a lot worse. I was really causing problems talking to his employees, all this stuff, just trying to get my back. I figured at the time, I figured my camera, my computer, I could get it back. So that didn't work. And he said to me, he said some threat right in front of the Inspector Crusoe. And I'm like, see, he's threatening me right there. And then the Inspector Crusoe turns to me, goes, yeah, he's a really bad man. And I'm like, oh, fuck, I'm out of here. So, like, you know, tail between my legs, I'm like, I'm out of here. And I. So I call back to the one photographic studio I knew, which was Peter Carpation. Peter Carpation was not some grip, you know, that was there. He's like a famous Vogue photographer from the 70s who's done these covers. And he goes, darling, I'm Peter Carpation. Come back. We'll shoot a show. It's, like, comical. So I. I kind of did like, a fake art show. Like, I got all my friends. It's called Women in Sunglasses. There's, like, videos of anything. And, like, all my friends came and wore these sunglasses.

Interviewer

Can I call you darling from now on?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, darling.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Yes, yes, officially. So he was great. He saved my ass. And so then I kind of get mistook as this photographer. That's kind of how the photographic element of the art stuff started happening. Look, so I'm feeling better at this point. I've had some more adventures. And then I get a call, and they said at that studio, we need a photographer to photograph Sharon Tate's wardrobe on a model named Lauren Hastings. And none of this is all, like, gibber. I was like, wow. I didn't. You know, I just knew Sharon Tate. Like, you say two dimensional, right? I'm like, well, that's kind of creepy. Don't want to do this. I'm like, yeah, sure, why not? So I went and I. Right before my. The guy, Peter Carpation had taught me this Polaroid camera, this old school press Polar, how to rip it out. And I threw it on the ground once. I stomped on it and created these cool patterns. So I started doing that all the time. Sharon Tate's sister comes in and she's watching this, you know, shoot, which I had no knowledge of the fashion industry and all, why this was important. I just knew Sharon Tate was this, like, person that had died, and her sister starts crying. And I say, you know, I can do. I'm an artist now. Like, I can do better than this. We can do a whole thing like honoring your sister. So I made this kind of Arrangement with her that, you know, I would do. It was like a 10,000 piece art show because of all the Polaroids and I built dresses out of. I built dresses out of Polaroids and I did these huge large format ones. There's a bunch of video of it online. Like LA Times covered it.

Interviewer

I saw it.

Jeremy Corbell

It's amazing success, man. So out of nowhere, you know, I've got this like art career and it's pretty good. It's. It's pretty awesome, man. So kind of just going with the flow and flowing with the go and enjoying it. That's what happened.

Interviewer

So then, so Jeff gives you a video camera, right?

Jeremy Corbell

Jeff Murad. Jeff Murad.

Interviewer

You still talk to him?

Jeremy Corbell

I do, yeah. He comes to some of the, you know, whatevers. Whatever things, yeah. He's a sweet kid.

Interviewer

He's a sweet kid.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

So Jeff gives you the camera and you still have that camera?

Jeremy Corbell

I do. Canon 5D Mark II. I filmed all my movies.

Interviewer

Mark 2.

Jeremy Corbell

It's not even the good one.

Interviewer

Yeah, it was pretty good back in the day.

Jeremy Corbell

It was. He gave it to me for my wedding with my wife and we just started, you know, kind of using it on their road trip across country for our anniversary. And that's how I kind of learned to frame and do I read that

Interviewer

you were practicing on your, on your honeymoon?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

Have any of those videos you want to?

Jeremy Corbell

I, I do, I do, man. I was like, you know, you were in Texas and there's a long road, we're lighting off fireworks and you know. Yeah, it was kind of neat as a way to document meant our kind of honeymoon. And.

Interviewer

Yeah, what I like about you getting the camera is I, maybe you started to learn that for some reason people will open up to a camera.

Jeremy Corbell

That's precisely what happened. Yeah, that is exactly what happened. And it kind of started with like my grandma, right. You know, she. I was telling you the story outside there, which is that I had made this art piece of the Battle of Los angeles, very famous UFO battle or battle UFO thing where the United States military shot up 1300 or 1412 pound mortars or something like that.

Interviewer

Yeah, this audience knows this song.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it's like some big event.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And you could see it from the Palisades. And two of the windows I harvested were viewing that way from the Palisades. So I thought, well, I'm going to take images from the LA Times, rebuild that as if you're looking out. And then I did like a dual panel and it didn't sell. So I Naturally. What do you do when you're a kid? Your art doesn't sell? You give it to your parents. So I went and installed it way high up where they could never get it down in their house. And my grandma just walks by and she goes, I saw that. And just walks out the kitchen.

Interviewer

I'm like, hold on, what do you

Jeremy Corbell

mean you saw that? You know, and I sat her down and, you know, kind of. She told me about seeing the Battle of la, this thing, object being shot at in the sky. And then she also told me all this stuff about my family that she had never told. Even her own daughter. My mom, on camera. On camera. It was like. It was like. I don't think anybody had ever sat her down with a camera before. And it was just like, I saw this thing where. Just pointing this camera at somebody. Not even about UFOs, really. This is about family stuff. They. They just told you stuff that would have been lost forever if you didn't point the camera at him. And so I like to make the joke. That camera became my passport into everything unknown that I wanted to know, or at least I had the potential to be. That it's a weird thing. You point a camera at somebody and they have these things that they want so desperately to say just to get it off their chest, not to be public a lot of time in the ufo just to say it.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

So I learned that really quick that that is. I could be misidentified as a filmmaker, you know, that's kind of what happened.

Interviewer

Wow. What were the secrets of the family that she told you?

Jeremy Corbell

She had at one time had a daughter that didn't make it, and she had never told my mom.

Interviewer

Wow.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Yeah. Just something she had just never, never told my family.

Interviewer

How did your mom react to that?

Jeremy Corbell

Oddly enough. It's weird we're talking about this. She didn't have the heart to watch. I told her about it, but yesterday on my way over here, she asked for the video about 28 minutes. So she's probably has watched it now for the first time. And that was like a decade, 15 years ago. I don't know. Something like that.

Interviewer

Because of sleeping dogs. I feel like I know your mom.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, she's.

Interviewer

She's so sweet in that.

Jeremy Corbell

And what, she's a gangster?

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

She's. What you see is what you get with her.

Interviewer

Yeah, she had me choked up a couple of times during the movie, to be honest.

Jeremy Corbell

It was a hard. That's a really hard time in my life. And she was going through it Too. There's a lot, you know, not said in the documentary, like what she had to go through. She's had to sit down with agencies before because of threats. So she really. My mom's been through a lot. Three boys, you know, but that was a very hard time for all of us. And, you know, the kid Michael captured it all. Or a lot of it.

Interviewer

Michael. We have to get his name right.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Michael Lazaruski.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And Sleeping Dog is the movie. Yeah.

Interviewer

It's a great movie. Your mom was so badass, because

Jeremy Corbell

I

Interviewer

think he asked her, you know, do you wish that Jeremy never got into this? And she said, no, I'm glad he did it.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. That surprised me that she said that.

Interviewer

Me too.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

I didn't see that coming. I want to talk about John Lear, but we're coming up on a break. Yeah, well, we'll leave it with this cliffhanger. We'll come back, we'll talk about you fixing John Lear's toilets. I talk about John Lear a lot on the. On my show. So when I saw sleeping Dogs out, I was like, this is gold. I had no idea you spent so much time with John. So much.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

How did you even come to learn about him?

Jeremy Corbell

Right? How to learn about him? Well, he was like the Godfather, man, from the era. From the Art Bell era that we've talked about. You know, the one looming name is this enigmatic character. John Lear used to fly for the CIA. You know, his dad invented the eight track stereo. You know, it became Motorola, the company. Like, he knows all these insiders, you know, man, he had some crazy theories. I mean, he was just like this omnipresent personality in UFO land before it kind of moved into mainstream. You know, he was the guy. He was infamous, you know, So I had heard about him because of, I guess, originally the George Knapp interview with the shady with the black background. Yeah, yeah. So, yes, did the Dennis interview. And, you know.

Interviewer

Oh, the Dennis interview.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, that was like. So that was when Lazar came forward to George Knapp and was in silhouette so you couldn't see his face, but they called him Dennis. And that was just repeated over the airwaves. You know, that was just like, everybody was talking about that in. In UFO land or whatever on the radio. And I remember must have been 13, and I heard that. I think I heard it before I saw it. And, you know, kind of that's when George Knapp's name got on my radar, too. And this Bob Lazar character, because he ended up coming out as Bob Lazar. And so John was, you know, woven into that story. And, you know, what you get is you read all this stuff about it, but these people are just like these voices and then these stories, and then maybe you see like, you know, news clip of them and they become a little more real. But I was always fascinated by that. You know, hearing what Bob said really flipped my script. And we had talked about this for a second, but I grew up knowing that UFOs, that aliens, they're probably real, but they're not coming here. That's what we all grew up knowing because the distances are just too vast. And I bought into that. You know, I thought, well, that's weird, but why are people seeing them? Right? But I wasn't, like, obsessed with it. It was just. It really sparked me to hear this story because of what Bob said. And Bob said, instead of like a reactionary propulsion system, from rockets to roller skates, you push something out the back, you go forward. He says, what was different about these craft is that it basically create a gravity well. You're falling into time and space. I'm like, you're falling. You're falling. So you're not pushing out the back, you're falling in. And I thought, you know, if. I was a dumb young kid, but I thought, if what he's saying is true, not. Not his whole story. Just like if craft could do that with science, then distance no longer matters. You're. You're falling into space and time. You need a lot of energy to do that, but you're falling into space and time. So distances no longer matter. So why wouldn't.

Interviewer

He's saying this 25 years before the Albuquerque drive, right? And we were talking earlier about the exploring multiple dimensions, compressing space, searching for clues of climb. Particles is what it is. You know, Bob didn't specifically say clues of climb, but he was talking about tech that they're actually looking into right now.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And Bob would be the first to say all these years that all he knows is what he's seen, touched, and shown words on paper. He was told some wild things, but, you know, he didn't know, and to this day doesn't claim that he knows that was true, because there's always disinformation sewed in with real information just so you can identify leaks. That is a standard practice in any black budget program. Anything but. So. So Lear was this gigantic Persona, right? But I knew that he was close. I think how it happened in my mind was I knew he was close to the Lazar Story which I knew was the most fascinating to me because, remember at that time, before the movie I made on Lazar was out, this was all sub stuff. It wasn't pop culture stuff. The world had not changed with UFOs at the time. So I was just like, who can I actually reach? And. And like, George Knapp? I mean, I called John, I emailed John. Nothing. Nothing for a long time. But one time he did pick up his phone, and his immediate response was, come on, here. Las Vegas, Nevada. Here's my address. Come visit me. Like, click. Like, it was, like, totally insane to me that somebody I. I. Nobody knows. I'm not doing UFO stuff, but just my. I think he was. I think he, like, was lonely or something. You know what I mean?

Interviewer

I saw the movie. I think he was.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I think he was. And so he.

Interviewer

He really wanted someone to talk to.

Jeremy Corbell

He did. And I think he just opened. I think I came at the right time. He opened the door. I had a camera, which he thought meant something, you know. And I was honest with him. I said, I've never made a movie, but I just. I'm fascinated by this. I want to learn from you. Can I record some of it? So that's how it happened. It's just very naturally, you know. But I was dogged about it and just, like, come one time and figure I got it all sorted. Came over and over and over again.

Interviewer

Did you have to bring the Philly Titans the first time in?

Jeremy Corbell

Not the first time. That was a lesson I learned. Probably the second time. Yeah. Had to smuggle him cigars.

Interviewer

Contraband. You want the story, but gotta bring me Titans.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, that's right.

Interviewer

From Walgreens.

Jeremy Corbell

That's right. Well, first. At first he wouldn't say to me, and that is very real. So. The thing I really appreciate about Michael's movie, by the way, is that the one thing I told him is no movie magic. Don't skew things with time. Show it like it happened. Like, I hadn't even looked at the footage. You talk with Michael. Like, I would describe a story to him, and he'd be like, no way. I'm like, dude, watch the footage. And he did. He'd be like, no, no, it's even cooler than you said. He. He reminded me of stuff like how I'm complaining that George Knapp will never pick up my calls to John, and John says, I don't know. He picks up for anybody. I told Michael that story that, like, I had been trying to get to George Knapp for many years. And it's all documented right there. It's pretty. It was pretty neat.

Interviewer

So did you let Michael have the full edit?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I gave Michael everything. He. It was completely his movie. Yeah.

Interviewer

Because there. There's a couple of spots where you're like, don't put that in, but.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, I know that might. Like, even my family was like, you know, showing yourself emotional and all that.

Interviewer

It had to be there, man. Really?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I'm glad you said that. But I just like it. It's a horrible feeling for me.

Interviewer

Of course.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

But it makes you a person, right? I'm just. He did a great job with it.

Jeremy Corbell

He's a good. He's. He's a really talented filmmaker. And it was a heavy subject he had to go through. I mean, just thousands upon thousands of raw footage that I had never looked at. So somehow he, over like a course of a year or more, absorbed it all, watched it all, you know, pinned the things he thought was important as he's doing it. Did.

Interviewer

Were you rolling on. On John Lear every time you were there?

Jeremy Corbell

Every single time?

Interviewer

How much footage that was a year, dude.

Jeremy Corbell

Ask Michael. He'll tell you the exact thousands of hours, man.

Interviewer

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Yeah, dude, I. How many years? You know, eight, nine years filming with Lear.

Interviewer

But.

Jeremy Corbell

But like, the first time that I went out to film with John Lear, I was such a dumb ass. Like, I figured, like, you know, what's the first question you ask? What is your greatest piece of evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrials exist? You know, it was like that. That was my. I just came in hot like that. And it's just. I thought it was simple, like this guy had something. It wasn't that. It's an accumulative weight of relationships and evidence and understanding that brought John to some weird places that he believed.

Interviewer

How did he come to trust you?

Jeremy Corbell

I think trust fluctuated with. With me and John.

Interviewer

I can see it in the movie.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I was his least favorite person, sadly, towards the end of his life. Yes, he is a very complicated guy. He had a great sense of humor. He had a great laugh. I loved him like family always will. But it was a kind of up and down relationship. So at first, of course, he doesn't trust me and he's using me. And he wouldn't even talk to me about UFOs. Like, that's real. When you see him just like smoking his cigar and barely looking at me, and then he'll go take a nap. It was just like he's Letting me film him like a animal in the zoo. Like, it was just really bizarre. And that's.

Interviewer

His whole setup is weird, man.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it's like a hoarder.

Interviewer

Yep, kind of.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

TV's everywhere. I mean, it was like. Like a Sci Fi set.

Jeremy Corbell

It's like a Sci Fi set.

Interviewer

But this was, like, legit, man. This is.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, yeah. Though that's John came as. He is like that. That's John Lear. I mean, the whole TV thing, like, back in the day, he would have, like, CNN on one, you know, FOX on another, BBC, you know, he'd have all the news separated on these TVs, and then he'd be playing tapes, reviewing stuff. People would mail him rant. Like, me now. People mail random things, and you're like, should I even watch this? So that. That setup was probably useful at one time, but I'm kind of coming in at the twilight of his life, you know, he was a very different person before I met him is what I've heard from everybody. And he was. He was with me from time to time. You know, the whole thing with this toilet was I just kept like. I'm trying to, like, film, and there's this constant toilet just ghost flushing, which, by the way, costs a lot of money. I'm dealing with that right now. With apartments, you have to put a dye in the top of the toilet. You have to wait five minutes and see. It's like this whole. So I had grown up knowing how to deal with this, and it just drove me crazy. So I. Yeah, people don't know that you.

Interviewer

You make your living with real estate and apartments and management.

Jeremy Corbell

That is my actual job.

Interviewer

You're right. UFOs. You're not making a fortune from your.

Jeremy Corbell

No. Unfortunate. Unfortunately, I'm a horror. I'm a horrible grifter. I am told. Even by your own brother. Right. Like, we are not monetizing.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, our podcast. Well, for me, this is. I like having financial independence because it puts me in a unique position with journalism where I don't have to work for a big company and I don't have to get, like, benefits from them. So I will maintain my apartment and house renovation business because that is what has always fed my family. And I can rely on it because those are fixable problems. Literally just fixing some apartment toilets three, four days ago. So. But I love that. I love that because they are fixable problems, and it relieves my mind. It's like going back to the computers with, like, you know, unbolting them and bolting them back. It's very simple. With John, it was very simple. Fixed his toilet so it wouldn't make this sound when I was recording. Then he realized, gold mine. I've got a smuggler and a handyman.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

And man, did he put me to work. Did he? Yes.

Interviewer

All around the house.

Jeremy Corbell

All around the house.

Interviewer

What are you fixing?

Jeremy Corbell

Everything. He thought I was a computer whiz too, and I wasn't. I'd have to like, call my brother, who's like way into computers, and ask him. And then half the time, John would just have his cap locks on. There was no light on the thing. And like, you know, I saw that

Interviewer

rat's nest of wires on this table.

Jeremy Corbell

God, I had to sleep on that floor the first number of times. And I was really. Yeah, because I didn't have a ton of money and it was like I was going out there every weekend that I could, you know, and buying the gas and, you know, so he let me stay after some time, would let me stay at his place. I. I graduated to George Knapp's place. He. He put. Had mercy on me after he saw my living conditions, you know. But yeah, it was just many years of getting to know these guys. And that's why I can tell you for matter of fact, that John Lear was not a dis. A paid disinformation guy from the CIA. I've heard that a bunch. Right. Dude couldn't even tie his own shoelaces properly, you know, because of his illnesses. So he just didn't have it in him. He believed the things he would tell you unless he was testing you and telling you things just to see how far he could make you, you know, go.

Interviewer

He believes some far out stuff.

Jeremy Corbell

He did. He did.

Interviewer

What did he get? Right?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, that was the interesting stuff. It was a lot of the Area 51 stuff because he'd have pilots come over from Nellis when I was there and he would, you know, he still had a lot of connections within intelligence agencies. And he was like this guy that people would just talk to for some reason, maybe because they knew there would be no judgment because he didn't have a meter. John didn't like, he would just take everything as gospel. It was super bizarre to me. And I don't know if that was just later in his life or if he was always like that, but he was definitely a safe person to talk with. Other than the fact that, you know, he. He would blab about it. You had to be careful of that. Yep. You know, but. But I think A lot of people came to him because he wouldn't judge him. They could tell him the weirdest stuff that has ever happened to them, what they saw, and he. He would just listen. And that was really cool to document that over the years of him just absorbing people's traumas, their stories, you know.

Interviewer

Did you facilitate that meeting with Sleeper? The guy. Was it Lou Bowden? Is his name Lou?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I really like Lou. Like, sure. You know, that's the thing with intelligence agents to, like, even when they've tried to entrap me before, like, straight up.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

I've had to give that to my lawyer. I can still, like somebody like, they're doing a job. Right. The loot. The Lou Baldwin thing was. Was pretty weird to me. Lear would talk about this guy Sleeper, who came to earth on a craft, but the way he would talk about him was like, UFO Jesus. You know, like, everything this guy says is so. And it just really perplexed me because John is. Was hyper smart. You know, he could. He could draw photorealism. John Lear with a pencil.

Interviewer

Really?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. He's a genius, John.

Interviewer

Question.

Jeremy Corbell

No, question. Yeah. So I was like, john, you can draw. He goes, yeah, draw, you know, well, photorealism. He goes, yeah. Well, show me one. He goes into this big, odd thing, pulls out. What does he draw? A urinal. Like, that was. That was so John Lear. It was a perfect porcelain man standing urinal.

Interviewer

Gorgeous. Just.

Jeremy Corbell

Just gorgeous urinal. But that was so Lear, you know, genius and crazy.

Interviewer

Are they right next to each other?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I asked him if he thought he was crazy, and he laughed at me, you know?

Interviewer

But did he answer it?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. He goes, no. He goes, if I am, it's been a fun ride. He goes, but, no, I know what I'm saying is true. And he was. He was committed to that. So the things he got right was a lot of, like, the. The test site stuff, like how he got prominence in the first place was he went into Ned Day, which is George Knapp's mentor in journalism.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And he's. He told him about the stealth fighter, right. Which was at the time a very top secret plane. And to the point where the FBI come in and they start shaking down Ned Day. And Ned Day finally says, look, I'm a small Las Vegas, Nevada reporter. If I can find out about the stealth fighter, then you sure as shit. The Russians and the Chinese know as well. I did you a favor, right? So John had really come in and broken. Helped them break a couple really good stories. He had so many sources and contacts out at Area 51, at Nellis in general and in these other agencies that he would get, you know, nuggets of truth. The stuff that, you know, come to find out 20 years later that he was right about 51 at this or that. So he had a lot of good information, but. But zero filter. If he. If somebody he trusted said, we got people living on the sun, he would tell you, we got people living on the sun. And you just kind of sit back, like, does he really believe it? And I come to find out some of it. He did. Like, he told me he believed that

Interviewer

his soul, that, like, our souls are being harvested by them on the moon.

Jeremy Corbell

That story by Lou, to the best of my assessment, John Lear firmly believed that.

Interviewer

And because I saw in the movie, it was such a crazy sequence. I'm glad Michael put it in there.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

Where Lou says, but John Lear, he's got a ticket right out. Out of the. Out of the prison planet. And John's like, is my ticket still good? He's like, yeah, yeah. Good. He's like, okay, cool.

Jeremy Corbell

I mean, so you're describing something in the movie that I think. I hope when people see that, why. I think Michael left that in the movies, because that does show you. He's sitting there in the sunset of his life. And this guy, Lou Baldwin, wrote him a thing, basically a pass to. To get through the. The pearly gates or something.

Interviewer

And.

Jeremy Corbell

And. And he firmly believed that they let. He left a lot of stuff out of the movie. It was really uncomfortable for me. So I got. I got Lou, and I bring him in, and I want them to meet, because this is kind of one of John Lear's, like, dying wishes was to go to 51, which we did again, by the way. You did before he died? Yeah, I took him out to the Rachel Bar and Grill, and we got shook down by two intelligence. Because they know John Lee, of course. Yeah. So. But they were, like, overt. It was bad contact. They come up to me inside of. Inside of the alien, they called it. And they're standing right by where my batteries are charging in the wall. And my backpacks, I can't get around them. And they is a man and a woman. And they. They say, hey, Jeremy, what are you filming? And I go, I'm just filming some interviews with, like, John Lear. They go, well, you know, I said, how did you get here? Because I didn't see him walk in. And they're like, we flew in. I'm like, thinking to myself, oh, they're. They're trying to flex on me because the only people flying in are coming from the base.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

So they identified themselves as naval intelligence. And they said to me, where's Bob Lazar? Which is just this bizarre thing for me to, you know, I think, where's Bob?

Interviewer

You didn't connect with Bob yet?

Jeremy Corbell

No, I had not met Bob Lazar, and I was filming with John Lear. This is like my indoctrination into high strangeness. Right?

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

I'm standing there and they're, they're really trying to be ominous. Like they're trying to press me a little bit. I never experienced that before that time with agents. And I was just being a kind of. I go, he's right there and there's a photo of Lazar on the wall. So I was kind of taking the piss out of him.

Interviewer

Oh. And I does not have a sense of humor about this.

Jeremy Corbell

Right, right. And so, yeah, stone cold face like that. They didn't even look where I was pointing my finger. And they're like, you're not thinking about going over the gates, are you? I go, oh, no, I wouldn't think about doing that. I. I hear there's a $600 fine if you do that. Like, I was just like messing with. So at the time, John was sleeping in the car, cuz he take a lot of naps, you know, so he had kind of was done with it. And I had just been interviewing.

Interviewer

You were safer with the Serbian dude than here?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, yeah, quite possibly. No, they were, they were just trying to flex on me, dude. And so John's like, just passed out in the car in my Scion Toyota. He's like, you know, fold the seat back, he's completely snoring. I come to the window, I'm like, dude, we got to go like that. And he goes, what? I go, there's just the two. The, the female and male in there. They're. Oh. And I, they just, you know, started to ask me, goes, you met aliens? That was, that was John reaction. Yeah, John's reaction is, you met aliens. And they, they came to shake us down. So we didn't go to the gates after that because I, I come to realize they know we're there, you know, and. But he got to see, you know, kind of the proximity of Era 51 again before he died. That was pretty neat. And then he wanted to meet Lou, so I flew Lou in on a Southwest flight. And he comes in and you see their very first meeting and interaction. What you don't see, because I guess the Michael Said the movie's not about that. But what you don't see is, like, they go out into the tennis courts that John had. They were all overgrown, look like a zombie tennis court. Nobody had played there for 20 years. And wow. You know, we wheel them out and they sit there and I film it. And John's, like, crying, and he's like, you know, I don't want to go yet because of Damien, who is his grandson. And Damien had kind of some hard things happen in his life. But that's when I could see that he's, like, talking to this guy sleeper, Lou Baldin. And he really believes that, you know, there are soul catchers, that the aliens are involved. And he's worried about his son, who he's known, or, sorry, his grandson, who he's known has been abducted. And I don't know, man. I call this UFO disease. It's like when people get so deep into this and they don't know the answers. We don't know the answers. We like to fill it with what feels best to us. And I really fight against that. I've heard it all, man. I've heard every theory of incredible people.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know the answer. And so I'm not gonna fill it in because I've seen that go wrong with everybody, man.

Interviewer

But you naturally want to fill it in.

Jeremy Corbell

You want to.

Interviewer

So you just leave the hole there.

Jeremy Corbell

Leave the hole. Be okay with it.

Interviewer

You and Michael should talk about doing, like, an extended cut. So I'd love to see some of that stuff.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it's awesome.

Interviewer

It was kind of heartbreaking to see your relationship with John that was. Last sequences were rough, man.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

When he died, were you not on good terms?

Jeremy Corbell

We were not on good terms. Basically what happened was I've been filming for a number of years, and, you know, the idea was, hey, I'm going to make a movie out of this footage. And, you know, that made him feel good. And that was the plan to do so. But what happened was he stopped my ability to do that. He basically signed over, you know, his life rights to a family member on a napkin, which completely cut out my ability to have autonomy on the film. So at that time, I had gotten very close with George. We had started working together. There was a trust that we built over time. And I had also met Lazar, and I had always told Lazar, I was like, three minutes of you talking would mean so much to the world right now. Because everybody, for over a decade has. I mean, probably longer than that, has been lying about you. And I know that now, knowing you and I've known all your friends, that I've heard from you. This stuff just let me push record for like three minutes. And that's that funny scene where when he actually first comes in.

Interviewer

Well, hang on. We'll get to Bob in a second. I want to know what was going on when he signed away the rights. Was that just a fuck you to you?

Jeremy Corbell

You know, you were there for you.

Interviewer

I mean, you helping him put a shirt on.

Jeremy Corbell

I know.

Interviewer

Pillows on the couch.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, I don't. I don't know. He was a complicated guy, and I think that. I don't want to say it. I just feel like maybe people were taking advantage of him a little bit, you know, like, everybody thought he was a meal ticket, you know? So I just, like, I don't know why he did that. I don't know why. I didn't take it personally. You didn't? No, I didn't take it personally. It was like, you know, he had a tumultuous situation going on in his life. If you just kind of look through public record.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

Tumultuous situation. And I feel like he said it to me, like, this is what we're up against. And I go, what do you mean, this is what we're up against? Like, why did you do that? Like, it. It cuts out. I'm like, I. I have no. I have literally done this for all these years, and I have nothing that I can. Like, this doesn't help get a movie made about you. So I just kind of like. It just didn't feel right anymore. I didn't take it personally. Like, it didn't. I understand his psychology. It just. I don't know if he was. At the time of right mind when he did that. He was on a lot of pain pills and stuff.

Interviewer

You mentioned that. That he wasn't getting the right care at the end.

Jeremy Corbell

That. That's. You know, I'm not one to judge that. I just. Yeah, I would say. I would say it didn't feel right to me.

Interviewer

He didn't look good.

Jeremy Corbell

He did not look good.

Interviewer

He didn't look good.

Jeremy Corbell

He flatlined once in between our filmings. That's that call you hear. He's not doing so good. I said I could come out because he had flatlined earlier that week. So we knew he was kind of like, you know, not long for this earth, so. But B ended up living longer and long enough to be pissed at me. But what he was pissed about was I ended up Making a film that I could make and it wasn't about him. And I think that really pissed him off. And then he had some poisonous people in his ears, you know, saying that I just used him that whole time to get to Lazar or something like that. Not true.

Interviewer

No.

Jeremy Corbell

And. And George knows that everybody that was there know that I really in good faith was trying to make that film. He made it impossible, you know, it's

Interviewer

clear it was in good faith.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

All right. So then I guess you get a call from John or John tells you, hey, Bob's coming over.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, I was actually there already.

Interviewer

You were there at John's house?

Jeremy Corbell

I was at John's house. And he had always kind of said this thing that like, you know, oh, Lazar might come over for my birthday because I'd filmed a couple of his birthdays at that point. So he's always kind of using that as like a, you know, come down and hang out with me and bring me some Philly Titans.

Interviewer

Right, right.

Jeremy Corbell

Pick some toilets.

Interviewer

Bob could show up.

Jeremy Corbell

Bob could show up, you know, So I didn't fall for that anymore. But then, sure enough, one day, I guess Bob was in town and I was there and he called through and respectfully, I turned off the camera when they were talking. Lear would always want me to film every time he was on a call with like Dr. Mitchell and all these people. And I just. It just felt weird because they didn't know, you know.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

So I'd turn off the camera.

Interviewer

You really did?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Every time. Yeah. Because I. I don't. This is. Yes. I'm not like a lot of.

Interviewer

A lot of dudes would, but how

Jeremy Corbell

are you going to use it?

Interviewer

I don't use it. Can't you.

Jeremy Corbell

It's not moral to you.

Interviewer

It's not.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Unless. Unless you. Unless you ask them after.

Interviewer

Yeah. Your morality got in the way.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, now. Now I record everything, so. So now like my life now. Everything is recorded. Like I have NEST cameras in my house and they're 24 7. Every call is on speakerphone. That's for my own. So no one can lie about what I say. Which people have tried to do, of course. So everything is documented to a high degree in my life now.

Interviewer

So did you sell Bob in advance? We're not rolling. You're. We're good.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. So I actually took the camera and tripod and everything and the recorder and I put them away.

Interviewer

Oh.

Jeremy Corbell

Just so that when he came in. Cuz I didn't know, it was like, you know, you trap A feral animal. Like, I didn't know what he was thinking. He had not come public at all. And you had just seen people saying all this garbage about him. And again, I know all his friends now, so I know it's. So when he comes in 2012 or so, so I'm so bad with that. But probably around, we can look at the time stamp on the phrase John

Interviewer

died, I think, in 2016.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay, that makes sense.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I mean, so I have to go back to footage and look at timestamps to know exact dates.

Interviewer

But just like, Bob wasn't super famous.

Jeremy Corbell

No. So that was the whole thing. It wasn't in pop culture. And so I didn't want him to feel trapped. And, you know, Lear just wanted anything to be filmed at all times. So I put away all the cameras and stuff, and then Bob comes in with joy and. And they just have a powow and they're laughing, doing all this stuff. And then I see my kind of opening and I say, look, I. I don't know if you're telling the truth or not. Like, I have no judgment on it. I would. I would love to know. But here's what I do know. And I do know that people are saying the craziest stories about you that aren't true. It's very targeted. They're trying to dismiss you. Like, can I just turn on the camera for three minutes? It will make a huge difference. You know, put it out on the Internet. I was thinking something like that. And he said, yeah. So I. I just got the cameras turn on that, and that's the first footage you see. I actually made, like, a short little film about it because he went far longer than three minutes. And that's the first time you hear Bob Lazar put his foot down and say, I know the UFOs are real. I was inside one. I know they're made with a science and a material that we. We have never been able to make. And he just went on this rant, and John was looking at me like, holy. Because he had never heard Bob stand up for himself in that way. So I knew that that was an important moment to. To learn about who Lazar really is.

Interviewer

And how did you get him to do that? Was this another grandma moment?

Jeremy Corbell

I asked. No, I asked him. I said, can I just film the three minute. Can I film a little bit? And he goes, sure. And then I. I said that thing before. Like, I don't know if you're telling the truth, but I know people fill it in voids and However I set it up, he just unloaded. And that was the coolest thing, because imagine me, I'm like, I had always heard about this guy Lazar, especially from John and all those people. And he's throwing down. I'm looking at him being like, oh, that's not that. He does not seem like a liar to me. Right.

Interviewer

He does not.

Jeremy Corbell

Now, I had cause to believe or to know that a lot of what Lazar talked about is actual. But I didn't know if Lazar had been there and that he had seen the things he said he saw. That's what kind of started me on this, is that I had previous understanding that this was likely true, but I didn't know. Was he being used as, like, a disinformation guy? You know, I didn't know. But I get to know him, get to know everybody around him. I see how they. Some of them don't like each other. How they don't. I'm like, this is not some big conspiracy. They are all telling it from their perspectives. The one thing they agree on is that Lazar did work out there, that he did have the job he said he did, and that all these little things happen. Like, he'd come back to liers and kind of spill some beans. And John's like, dude, don't come over here after working out there. They're gonna. You know, they're gonna follow you. So it's like this crazy time where George nap and all them were being followed. And George will tell you, he's like, you had to have been there to really understand what that pressure was like. He goes, my newsroom was tapped because now we all think, oh, nsa, we're all tapped because. Not back then. Back then, to tap a newsroom was unbelievable at the time. And so it was. It was a different era. So there's Bob. He says his thing. He leaves. John's like, I have never heard him talk like that. And I said, well, maybe. Maybe, you know, he's sick of it. Maybe he wants to show people who he is now. Right. Because it's a natural thing. People on you for 10 years, and at some point, you're gonna get pissed.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

And Bob is not a pushover. No, he's a gentle guy, but don't piss him off.

Interviewer

You can see him get pissed in his eyes when he talks about.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it's hurt his life. Of course, if you believe anything that he said about the repercussions of this that have happened to his life, which some of it's public. Record, you know, being raided for no reason. All this stuff, it's a way to pressurize the situation and make you shut up. So whether you believe him or not about UFOs, there are some things that we know about Bob that have happened, and it is. It's a pressure cooker, you know.

Interviewer

Yeah, they. He got raided and they.

Jeremy Corbell

Multiple times.

Interviewer

They made his life miserable.

Jeremy Corbell

They did.

Interviewer

Where other whistleblowers, not so much, but Bob, they did.

Jeremy Corbell

Or behind the scenes sometimes with other whistleblowers. Sure, sure.

Interviewer

You were probably the first one to bring Bob Lazar to the. To the mainstream. What did you think about Luigi's movie recently?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I think it was really important because Bob has always said it's important that people could kind of see what I saw. So for Bob, it meant a lot to get those details right because he said everything he can possibly say.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

But he said that saying it is different than seeing it. And with a big thumbs up, Bob's like, that's what it looked like. And so I think that that's a real service. I don't know much how much farther people can dissect his story because he said it all, he's shown it all. There's nothing big he's hiding from anybody, like a name or something like that, so he can be the judge if someone's fooling him or not. I've had so many people come to me, be like, I worked with Bob out there, blah, blah, blah, and I know the questions to ask. And if I don't, then I put it over to Bob and he has certain things that he will hold back just so he knows if somebody was ever out there or not. You know, it's smart. But the core of his story, there's nothing more that he can tell?

Interviewer

No. And he says, I don't know more often than not.

Jeremy Corbell

Right.

Interviewer

Did you ever come across Dan Bursh in your travels?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, he's full of.

Interviewer

Oh, he's full of.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm. George has a whole thing about that. But I think the important thing is about Lazar Story. So we were in a different era in 2018 that was just on the cusp where things started to change about UFOs because of the 2017 article and whatnot. But it was still very much in the shadows, especially Bob. My movie was just to show people. So my movie is called Bob Azar, Area 51 and flying saucers. I lucked out, got a couple movies on Netflix, one on Hulu. I'd never made A movie in my life again. It's like this imposter syndrome. I'm not a filmmaker, but I lucked out with distribution. So when that movie came out, what I wanted people to see, I wasn't trying to prove the details of Lazar's story. I was trying to humanize him. I want you to see. This is Bob. This is his life. This is Joy. Oh, by the way, he actually is a scientist. He works in scientific capacity. He has a laboratory. He does. He is the more science guy that I've met than most scientists. Like, he's hands on, physically doing stuff. He's got a cool business. He's got a cool life. He's got doggies. So I just wanted you to, as a viewer, to see. Like, you're talking about beyond the two dimensional.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

And see him as a person.

Interviewer

Because he's flattened as 2D.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, man. More than anybody. And so if you could see that. I was figuring in my mind, if you could see what I've seen, then you have to contend with what he said in a different way. I'm not fighting for one side or the other. I have my own personal conclusions that I've come to. But that's what my movie. What I wanted it to do was just to allow you in. So you see him as a human. So then you have to contend with what he said in a different way, rather than just dismissing oftentimes based on stuff that he never said. So that was. That's what my movie was about. And it burst into pop culture in a way I could never storm. Error 51. I mean, I could never have imagined.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

That was you was gonna get crazy.

Interviewer

That was you.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, that was a kid named Daddy.

Interviewer

I know, but.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, he watched the Rogan episode, Bob. And then he watched the movie and he started a meme, and it started something that was so out of control that George and I were like, maybe we should take a little control of this and try to make it, like a good thing. So he. George, went to report on it. And I, like, called the crazy ass musician who I didn't even know. He was, like, popular and had him come out. Tried to. Tried to steer the conversation rather than it being.

Interviewer

Did you get a call from somebody like, dude, if this is you?

Jeremy Corbell

No, I was never officially reached out to. Okay. Informal capacity by the FBI or Department of Justice. On that one.

Interviewer

On that one.

Jeremy Corbell

On that one. But they definitely made it. They were definitely present at the event. Overtly badged, of course. Right.

Interviewer

Terrible.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. No one. No one Blamed me for that. It was. It was something out of control in pop culture. But that is just to show that people were so hungry to hear about the UFO stuff that even now, to this day, I think it's the most popular podcast on. On Joe's is Was with Lazar. The first Lazar.

Interviewer

Yes, it is.

Jeremy Corbell

It really. It punctured something into pop culture. And that was really neat. So I think the new movie is amazing because you get to see, according to Bob, what he saw. And I think that's cool.

Interviewer

There are a couple of key moments in UFO history. One of them would be probably Bill Moore's book about Roswell. Another one is your movie about Lazar. Do you feel that? Do you realize how much part of history you are?

Jeremy Corbell

So no in the sense. No. And that's always. People have said that to me before. Things. I have no rearview mirror, man. I am like a forward looking. I'm just like no rearview mirror. I know that George and I have made some noise. I know that we brought out a bunch of military videos. I'm glad the world is embracing this mystery. But I. I don't, you know, I've got more questions than answers, man. We're like, we're just starting with this thing, I think.

Interviewer

Was Lazar, the first time you used the totem pole expression? Like you wanted to make a totem pole of something that's worshiped or something that's burned?

Jeremy Corbell

Okay.

Interviewer

Was that. I don't know, it was something you said a while ago that was really interesting.

Jeremy Corbell

Right? I don't know.

Interviewer

The reason I ask it is because you're kind of becoming that as well as a totem pole. It's.

Jeremy Corbell

They're gonna burn me.

Interviewer

They're trying to.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I noticed that.

Interviewer

But there's also. You also have followers. There's an eschatology. There's

Jeremy Corbell

here's.

Interviewer

Here's. What's. What's weird is.

Jeremy Corbell

What's eschatology?

Interviewer

Just a belief system. You're a leader of a belief system, almost a faith. You're almost like a faith leader. I don't know if you feel that.

Jeremy Corbell

No.

Interviewer

You're always up against compartmentalization, all these different things. And yet I see in your methodology, encrypted files, information that comes out. It's. It's very planned. You're compartmentalizing. Do you ever do. Is that attention for you, that you're kind of doing what they're doing?

Jeremy Corbell

Okay. The idea that I'm a gatekeeper to something, Is that the idea?

Interviewer

No, because this isn't an attack question?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, no, I'm open to any question. I want to clarify things that people misunderstand, so.

Interviewer

But I'm glad you brought up gatekeeping.

Jeremy Corbell

I didn't think I've been accused of that. Like, I. Of course my mom will send me when people say nasty shit about me online, but I can. I would like the right to explain to people what journalism is like, what we have to go through, how we have to protect sources. The last thing that George and I are doing is holding information back. Look at our history. We have put out more than anybody when it comes to these things that should not be seen. And we don't do it lightly. Every time you do that, you put a source at risk every single time. And the footage isn't even as good as when the government puts it out. If I put something out with George, all of a sudden people are saying, well, what's the frame rate? The frame rate's off. You know, blah, blah, blah. Like we take for it. All we're trying to do is put out the best we got. Now when the government puts out a piece of footage, it's directly off a server. There's no frame rate discussion. There's no source. That's. That's getting in a compromised situation. The onus is on our government. They have said that they're going to be transparent about UFOs. All we've been doing is journalism. We've been provoking truth. We've been provoking the release of data and information. It's not like we. We stand behind every piece of footage that's an alien spacecraft. We've never. That's not our position. We're trying to get the stuff that is being hidden. That is a public interest. If it is safe to do for sources and, you know, for America. Last thing I want to do is hurt our country. Right. Trying to get it out to the public. It's much better when our government does it like they said they were going to do. So I'm not holding anything back. I am thoughtfully and respectfully trying to get as much out as possible with George. That doesn't compromise sources because that is my number one obligation, 100%. Yeah. If someone comes to you and they provide you something sensitive, you need to assess because I'm going to be on the hook for it with George. You need to assess. Is it going to blow back and hurt sources and. And if it is, can't do it. I don't. I wouldn't feel good about myself.

Interviewer

You can't do It.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

So speaking of George.

Jeremy Corbell

But I get accused of that, by the way, all the time.

Interviewer

Of what?

Jeremy Corbell

Of gatekeeping. Like, I'm doing what the government's doing. I'm. Dude, I'm doing the opposite, man.

Interviewer

No, it's. I'm just more worried about you, I guess, having all these pieces scattered around. Like, if something happens. You have a plan.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, George and I do. Yeah. Like I've said before, like, there's, there's. Everything that we've ever accumulated is not going to go lost if something goes wrong with me and George. Like, very simple, you know, over the years to make sure that some. There's no dead end with our reporting, the simple process.

Interviewer

Something you said in the movie, that it's going to frustrate a lot of people, but there's no way around. It is. There's some stuff that you guys have to hold back because of national security. Because you just have to.

Jeremy Corbell

You want me give you a concrete example?

Interviewer

If you want. I mean, yeah, because there's no defense for that. Like, it's like, guys, I'd love to tell you about this, but we can't. We really.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, there is a defense for it. I mean, so big picture, holding back for national security, like, that's not my job. I'm not qualified to. My lawyer will tell you I'm not qualified to assess that kind of thing. I will tell you, though, that it has been made incredibly clear to me that, for example, if there's a Russian submarine that is breaching and there are in thermal, there are two lenticular objects coming from left of screen to the right. Now, will that one piece of footage crack the egg? Is it better than a piece of footage without a. A Russian submarine in it? Right.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

No, it's not.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

So when you're assessing, you know, with national security in mind, I have been told directly that that that type of footage is really bad for American defense. So the question becomes, what's the, the value in a piece of footage compared to others? Now I'm, I'm. I have nothing like that. Things like that have passed in front of my eyes. I'm familiar with that kind of stuff. I've been shown a lot more than I've ever George and I have ever obtained. But the defense for national security is very simple. It's not on me to release that kind of thing. Our government has said we're going to open the books on it now we're watching. We want to make sure. But if I had to choose what George And I report on if somebody's going to give away a strategic advantage that the US doesn't want taken away, then I have to think about that like a person too.

Interviewer

You do?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. So I just, I understand. You know, everybody wants everything out, all that stuff. We're not in a position to make that choice.

Interviewer

A lot of time, I'm 100 with you.

Jeremy Corbell

Why would somebody ever also give journalists something like that when you seen that George and I have put stuff out that has not endangered national security. So even though I'm aware of something, doesn't mean I'm in position to actuate it into public domain. It's annoying.

Interviewer

It's annoying. But I, I, there's no way I'm

Jeremy Corbell

doing my look, I'm doing my best. If somebody can do better, they should do it.

Interviewer

Yeah, no, nobody can do better.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, hopefully people will.

Interviewer

It's because you have the right moral center for it. Like, you're, you're, you were chosen for this. No one else could do this. Tell me about how you and George hooked up. That's an amazing team up, man.

Jeremy Corbell

It was so cool, man. He's the best.

Interviewer

What a legend.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

And it's so cool because you go from, you go Ned Day, who's like his mentor. Someone comes into the newsroom. Ned day says, UFOs. If it, if I don't know about it, it didn't happen. And George says, I'll track it down. And now here you are, right? You're, you're like, you're, you're the next. Yeah, you're just carrying the same torch.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, he's really, Yeah, I was really shocked, man, the way George, you know, because I'm, I haven't hadn't made any movies or anything like that. And, and I've told this story before, but it was just, it was really hard to get to George, you know, harder than the president during an election. I said, but it's true. He has all these, like, layers, like, and he just doesn't answer his phone a lot. And as he gets older, too, definitely doesn't answer his phone a lot. But it was like, at the time, I just hit this sweet spot. I just remember that he, you know, I get on the phone with him and he just unloaded and it was probably the longest conversation that we had ever had to date. It was almost like a pressure valve. And, you know, I said, look, I'm not trying to, like, you know, I'm not trying to hurt anybody. I just want to know the truth, you know, you how did he know I trust you? I. I just called the news station. I emailed a few times over the course of two years. I reached out, kind of respected, you know, without being like, too much, trying to get through. You've probably experienced that and just hit a sweet spot. So finally he. His news director called me back, and I was totally unprepared for this call. He goes, hold for George Knapp. I'm like, whoa, whoa, what? Hold for George Knapp. And then he took mercy on me. He's like, can I give you a piece of advice? I'm like, yeah. He's like, know what you have to say, Say it succinctly, and just listen. Okay?

Interviewer

Yes, sir.

Jeremy Corbell

So I did that. You know, I mean, it's Jennifer Corbi just really working. And then George just unloads, and he tells me, here's what I know, here's what I don't know. Here's. Here's. Here's. What I suspect, you know, is this kind of these three things he did. And. And then, you know, it was like the first time I went over to his place and I told him that I'm working on this thing. I want to make this film on Lear. But it's really confusing feeling.

Interviewer

What are you feeling on the drive to George Knapp's house?

Jeremy Corbell

Fuck.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know. I wasn't really in this world. I wasn't really in the UFO world, you know, so it was just like,

Interviewer

I'm driving to George Knapping.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't really get nervous about stuff because I don't think it through. A lot of the time. I'm just kind of just straight up honest. I just don't. I just kind of go, you know, And I'm oftentimes in rooms I shouldn't be in. And, like, I only reflect on that later. Like, why the am I here? So I just felt, like, excited, like, maybe I'm gonna get a little bit more truth, you know? But then George and I just hit it off, man. You know, we're talking, and probably not a lot of people could have held the conversation with so many details about it, like I could. So it was almost like Lear was like I was training for my black belt.

Interviewer

That's right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, and, like, you know, learning some of the crazy. And it was so relieving to hear George Knapp say, well, that's bonkers. Or, no, let me tell you a real story about that. So he probably enjoyed the idea that he could tell me what he had been going through with all these characters over time. So it was just kind of neat. And then I think one of the first things we did, we called Nellis together and I. I filmed this. Yeah, man. And it's different than when I call Nellis and ask about site 4 and all this stuff. And when George Knapp calls Nellis, they take it very seriously.

Interviewer

Really?

Jeremy Corbell

Yes, because he's George now.

Interviewer

Yeah, Right.

Jeremy Corbell

And so he's the lead investigator, reporter, Las Vegas, Nevada, for like, at the time, like 30 plus years. So I was like, yeah, man, I've been trying. I can't get through to Nasi. So I remember we sit down and he calls the public information officer who he knew, right? And so, like, they're like, Mr. Napoleon, we'll get back to you. And it was a specific question about any designation of S4 or Site 4 on the base. And when they actually left an audio message. So I recorded that as well. I don't know if I've ever put it out, but they're. They're like, we have no. And he's kind of giggling, kind of laughing. He's like, we have no site for. Specifically designated on our maps. You know, so he was trying to tell George, yeah, of course we got a site for it.

Interviewer

Right?

Jeremy Corbell

You already called, you know, ten years ago, and. No, we do, but it was a cool thing. So. So yeah, with George, we kind of together, we've had a lot of fun being able to ask the hard questions.

Interviewer

He says it in the movie, and it's great. He said almost word for word, like, I love catching them in Bullshit.

Jeremy Corbell

He does. He loves.

Interviewer

He's such a warrior.

Jeremy Corbell

So one time I go to the Atomic Testing Museum. And this is really before George and I had worked a lot together. And there was the head of the CIA's history person, a historian, and then a guy who is head of Science and Technology, Area 51. This is all filmed. You can see it on, like, online. And they're having some panel and it's all about Area 51, all the cool things that happen there. And George is like, hosting it. And I'm in the front row with my Canon 5D, like this. And he goes, I think. I think that guy has a question over there. So he, like, threw me in. And I go, are you aware of a movie called UFOs Past, Present and Future, fully funded by the CIA, since you're the CIA historian. And they talk about. And I just did this whole thing. And they like, whisper to each other, like, it got a little tense because I was like the UFO guy. But that was the first time George kind of threw me in as the harpoon to ask the questions that nobody else was going to ask.

Interviewer

Was that in the movie?

Jeremy Corbell

No, that's not.

Interviewer

Because there was a whisper answer in the movie as well.

Jeremy Corbell

Did he show. He might have shown a clip of that? Yeah, he might have showed that was Petite is his last name. He was the lead historian for the CIA.

Interviewer

You just see them take the question, they whisper, yes, okay, it was. And like, we.

Jeremy Corbell

So he showed a clip of that. There's a. There's a longer version version. So you can see what I asked.

Interviewer

Oh, I'd like to see that. Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

But that was my first experience of George kind of like, I guess trusting me enough to. To throw me in like a harpoon to ask the question that no one else would ask. I think that kind of like started it off for us a little bit. And then, man just really blew up in the UFO land. After we started working together with OS app and the A tip and all the stuff, it was really became something. So it's good timing.

Interviewer

How did you and George decide to start the podcast?

Jeremy Corbell

I think I just roped him into it. I, like, I told him, I was like, man, you know, every time we do something, like, I, I put it out on my like, little website, or it was actually Rogan who, who told me, you got to film a podcast. Why? And he goes, because do you think there would have been a viral moment if you just heard Elon smoking a joint? And I'm like, oh, that's a good point. Like, so the idea of filming it kind of came to us and I, you know, he does his new. He had, you know, full time news guy and I was just putting stuff out on the Extraordinary Beliefs website for my films and I, I was just like, man, you know, we could do something where we just go after these stories, do it together. I kind of, you know, just pull them into it, man. And I think he's enjoyed it so far. Sometimes he gets mad at me. A lot of work.

Interviewer

I mean, that was. My next question is like, what do you and George disagree on about this stuff? I mean, because you've admitted that he's more skeptical or he's harder to convince.

Jeremy Corbell

Depends on what. So, like, I tell you. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm like allergic to the paranormal ideas. Like, you know, that just to be honest, like, I don't grasp that stuff.

Interviewer

That's what I like about you.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And I just. So for me, that's a heavier lift. But I've learned a lot by being more open to what those stories mean. And, you know, the, My. The litmus test, I think you call it for me was like being thrown into the opportunity to go to Skinwalker Ranch before it was, you know, popularized in this way. So I really had to kind of open myself up to understanding. The UFO phenomenon, if you just listen to people is far more complicated than potentially just spaceships coming from other planets. But it makes me uncomfortable, like I'm not qualified. I don't know who is. But that's where we kind of, you know, he has more experience with that kind of stuff.

Interviewer

What does he. What does he think he thinks is a physical craft?

Jeremy Corbell

No, I. I'd say it's the opposite. Like, I came from the, you know, kind of nuts and bolts, but he had experienced so many other things and was much more informed. You know, he had a fly on the wall opportunity with a lot of these government programs. You know, you want to start a conspiracy? George Knapp has been at the center of everything. Everything. I mean, the reason why Lazar come forward, the reason why Harry Reid was interested in this, how the OS app got created. Osip would not. I don't think OS app would have gotten created if it wasn't for George Knapp, because it was his book that sparked the interest of Dr. McCaskey. So a lot of what we're seeing today, if you want to start a conspiracy, it centers around, or at least George Knapp was in the room for a lot of it. You know, it was a really interesting life that he had.

Interviewer

The movie's worth watching just to see George's house. Yeah, it's like it fulfills every fan. The Emmys are lined up. The Peabody, the. The books, the videotape. Did you guys ever find that videotape you were looking for? The crazy tape?

Jeremy Corbell

Which one?

Interviewer

I forget?

Jeremy Corbell

The one in the brown case that shows the full cloud chamber test. It was done over y. I have torn apart his entire house over a 15, almost 15 year period, probably. I mean, I have digitized every blank tape I could find that even Bob is so pissed that they had, like, given that to a trustworthy news reporter to never lose. And what, did George just hide it in? The best hiding place possible. Now he's had things go missing before, which has been an issue, but this was like in a nondescript brown case. It's supposed to show. I mean, everybody that was there, as I know everybody that was there, they did a cloud chamber test to See if you could bend light with what Bob said was element 115 in a puck. And George, not being a scientific guy, he said it looked like the light was bent. The other science. Science people that were there in a home situation all describe the same thing. So that tape allegedly has that, and they did give it to George for safekeeping. I mean, he is so pissed at himself about this. But I'll tell you why there's hope. He just found a whole bunch of stuff from his Russian travels that, like, had never been digitized.

Interviewer

Wow.

Jeremy Corbell

Because his. His house is like a museum of tapes and papers. And, you know, he'll just find stuff sometimes. So to answer your question, no. Would it show what I think we're all hoping, which is a bending of the light. They all say that that's is what happened. Everybody that's there that don't have cause to lie about it. Right. It would be proof of something, but it wouldn't be the ultimate proof.

Interviewer

No, but it'd be something.

Jeremy Corbell

It'd be something.

Interviewer

Yeah. You guys got to digitize that. That Russian stuff.

Jeremy Corbell

He is. Yeah, they're. They're already. The kid. The kid, Michael. Actually, now I've got my successor, Michael. He's doing the hard work now. Yeah, the kid. Yeah. Well, I don't call it a kid. He's younger than me.

Interviewer

All right, we'll take a quick break. We'll come back, we'll talk UFOs.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay.

Interviewer

You probably. Probably get a lot of. A lot of email. A lot of stuff.

Jeremy Corbell

You could say that.

Interviewer

So I've heard.

Jeremy Corbell

I take a lot and get a lot of emails.

Interviewer

I've heard you say, if you want to get your story out, I'm not the guy to call.

Jeremy Corbell

Right.

Interviewer

So when you get something, how do you vet it? Like, how do you spot right away? Because I'm sure you. It. You do. And what makes you go. Sometimes, but it takes some time, and sometimes you go. Gonna be serious. What's that Process.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. Yeah. I mean, look, one day I will up and, you know, be kind to me if I do. We're doing our best. But you know what I learned, actually, it's funny, you know, you were saying, you know, George is one way, I'm the other. Like, I. I argue with him that I am way more patient. You know, he's like a news guy. He's, like, ready to go. You know, I'm more like the. The. The human guy. You know, I take my time. You know, just sometimes really like years with people because they might have told Me or shown me something really great. But I'm always feeling like people are trying to hurt me, dude. You know, I'm always trying to see the people trying to trip me up.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Because I know it to be true. Because I've had interference. And that's a big point I want to get to about the movie is what we wanted you to understand. You know, the movie is really about journalism in my perspective and why it even exists, but before that, cosmic time. So my aha moment with the UFO thing didn't come in the form of, like, a video or something like that. It. It came in the form of government influence. And I didn't. I didn't realize. You know how people say you have intelligence agencies baked in to the subculture? Oh, yeah. Okay. So I'm. I guess I was a little naive by, like, okay, cool story, grandpa. Like, you know, oh, you're. You know, your computer's being hacked. Okay, cool story. You got your caps lock on. You know, I was just always this guy, like, feeling like the world's out to help me and not hurt me. Yeah. So that was. But that was always like, what do you call instead of paranoia? Pronoia.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, everybody's trying to help me. What's going on?

Interviewer

You know, did you know about Richard Doty, you know, and I.

Jeremy Corbell

Back in the day. Of course. But I figured that the guy's, like, doing his job, and then I don't. I don't know. Yeah, I guess I knew about that. So I guess I should have been more. I should have been more thoughtful about it.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

But there's always many sides to that story. Like the way it was told to me from the Doty, you know, individuals is that it really didn't take much to tip him over the edge. Correct. With his belief system.

Interviewer

Correct.

Jeremy Corbell

So that. That's why you have to be so careful, man, with what you choose to believe rather than have evidence for. But for me, the aha moment was just the amount of COVID intelligence agency influence on the UFO space. And when I started interfacing with that, they quickly found out that I must have good sources because I could find out if somebody's up to something.

Interviewer

Can you give an example?

Jeremy Corbell

Sure.

Interviewer

Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

They call it false friendship, where you have somebody reach out to you and they're like, a big fan of your work. They're. They're nsa, all a bunch of us at nsa, you know, watch your show with you and George and, you know, all this stuff.

Interviewer

Cool.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, they're at like, let's say Wright Patterson. They got a little office. They got some weaponized stuff around. They take a little photo, which I don't think they should be doing. Wow, this is a cool.

Interviewer

I get these too, man.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

Oh, Missile Command is a fan of my show. I didn't know that.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, well, so it's kind of. And look, maybe they are. I don't want to be like, you know, maybe they are, man. I've had people come from, like, Lockheed, from Boeing. I've had people come up to me at a bar because I. I sometimes I go hang out. This bar where all the employees come out from all the aerospace companies.

Interviewer

Really?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I'll take you one time you're in California. It's pretty cool. So I always go sit out there. And it's funny because the. The gray shirts will come out. I believe that's Lockheed. And the black shirts will come out, I guess Raytheon. And this is just one pub. And I'll just sit there, man, like, you know, like. Like bait, you know, to sit there. And then eventually, somebody always breaks in the fold and, like, comes up and they. They say strange things. Like, one guy says, history's going to remember you kindly. And I go, would you? Like, what'd you say? And he goes, history is going to remember you kindly. I go, what do you know? You know. You know, I'm just kind of messing with them sometimes. I'll get their phone numbers or whatever. But what I've learned is that someone, let's say from nsa, they'll come and they'll do this whole thing. I'm a fan of your show. Or I'm a kid at a. At a facility where we look at Reaper footage 24 7. I've done it six years, dude. Something crazy happened.

Interviewer

So.

Jeremy Corbell

So after they get to know you, all of a sudden it's Something crazy happened. Right? And going back to the NSA thing, well, I called around, and I have this unique ability to find out if people have other federal employment. And it's to the chagrin of some of these intelligence agencies, because somewhere there must be a file that says, you now have to have badged contact with Jeremy and George, and you need to show them your puppy and show them you have a wife. Like, it's so funny. It's this playbook. It's like, they always talk to me about my dogs, and then they have a dog. And, like, it's. It's so playbook. It's like crazy. Must be in a file.

Interviewer

You ever call anybody out on it?

Jeremy Corbell

All the time. Like it's, it's a joke. It's like when you're messing with. You ever heard those stories of like in Russia where like the counterparts, even though they knew they were spying each other, would like go out and have drinks? Of course, that's like, it's human nature. Right, of course. So, yeah, this is, I think, what really shocked the kid Michael, who made the movie because he has seen a lot more than most people of these interactions. And as I told you, I document everything in my life out of self defense. But anyway, my point is somebody that approaches me and says they work in one agency and they're just big fans of the show and then I find out something about them which is, I don't know, they're a liaison to the FBI. And you know, George and I, ever since, you know, we've been kind of in this realm of reporting, have had a lot of badged contact, this wanna, hey, respect you. You're a journalist. We're not messing with anything. We're more worried about foreign nations compromising you because then maybe you don't vet stuff and you know, not just hurting America, but other nations could. You know, they're being good cop to you.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

So I started seeing a lot of that happen and Georgia too. We've had a number of meetings about this.

Interviewer

Any required meetings?

Jeremy Corbell

Well, you never say no, so that's the thing. Only one time did we say no. But I have a federal lawyer who. People now know who he is. Chuck McCullough. Yeah, first iCig we've seen him on TV. Good lawyer to have. Right. So he's kind of will walk me through. You don't. You know, I'm a curious dude, first of all. So even when he said before, there's no reason for you to take that meeting. I want to take it because I want to know what they're thinking. And he kind of laughs when I say that, but I'm serious. Like I want to know what they're thinking. I've learned a lot by taking some of those meetings. Now they understand strictly that George and I are doing our journalism. First Amendment not to be with it will become a public issue if you try to influence, overtly try to influence any of this. So they're not going to tell you not to report on stuff, but they're going to tell you the guidelines and the rules. Right. With national security. Right. They don't want you to get messed up. Right, right.

Interviewer

Hate to see something bad happen to you.

Jeremy Corbell

Right, right. Exactly. So, God, how Deep to go into this. So let's, let's say I find somebody is liaison, liaising with, with FBI because they're doing an investigation on our sources or something like that. So this dude is patient for like four years. And then when I'm in a heightened state of emotion, there's, you know, public things that have occurred. You know, there's this whole sleight of hand thing that happened in Congress once and you know, people could tell I was kind of like upset.

Interviewer

So sleight of hand happen. As much as you want or as little as you want.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. One of the hearings was not as it appeared. Oh yeah. And people know it as the immaculate constellation. One people thought I was upset because some other journalist, you know, turned in my homework. That was not the case. There's a lot more to that story. There were prior meetings for two and a half months. What I was worried about is who the public can trust, who sources can trust, who, who the government and Congress is telling you can be trusted to bring sensitive information to. It is the hardest thing about testifying is getting there. Some of these whistleblowers you have never heard about because when they ask me to bring and we're going to have, you know, five people testify, how many do you want? Oh, you know, 12, 13. So they want people to, to bear themselves, put themselves at risk saying this is what I would testify about. But we know not everybody's going to get selected. So it takes balls of steel sometimes, depending on who's testifying.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, to actually put it all out and say, I want to tell the public this, it's the right thing to do because not everybody's going to get selected.

Interviewer

So is that why you smuggled Matthew Brown in?

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, God. We are going. That was weird realms. Yeah. So why did I. So let's, let's, let's take back the word smuggled for a second.

Interviewer

Okay. No laws were broken.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay. So I want to make sure to answer your question about government interference and then I'll talk to you about the smuggler and Matthew Bear. It's a great story. So then when I'm in a state where, you know, I'm vulnerable, it looks like I'm vulnerable or angry at least. Then you get that same person under false friendship to try to get you to solicit. It's called, that's where they say. And it's, it's entrapment and it's completely legal. And it's what it is absolutely legal for them to do, where they say hey, man, I don't know, like, I'm at my computers and like I'm really mad about what I'm seeing and is there anything you want me to get? No, no, bro. And these are career human intelligence people. They know exactly what they're doing. So in that realm, you have to be, as a journalist, really careful. And if they lie about what you say, that's why you have to record everything if you can. Right. Because the, they don't want to stop people from talking about UFOs. They want to shape the emerging UAP narrative.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

Best way to do that is have leverage. I, I can't anymore count the number of times that I have directly been invited to solicit. And I have never. And neither has George. And we, I was taught that day one from George, like, what are the rules here? When you're reporting on shit that our government doesn't want you to report on to a high degree they don't want you to report on. So that is an example of the interference. But it's so much deeper, man. I have just jumped into the Viper's pit with all this and it's not a cool place to be, right. So I have to be so careful. And it's not just for me, but it's also for the people that I speak with, man. You know, the more I raise my head up, the more it puts pressure on anybody that talks to me. Like, I tell people that I don't want to talk over the phone about stuff because you never know. We know for a fact that when I brought people under a nine month investigation with ODNI, ODNI is the top intelligence agency run and AR18, I think intelligence agencies, they did a nine month investigation. First person they came to was me and George Knapp. We go in, we were like, oh, you're going to get to the bottom of this. This is really great. This is a mandated thing. Nine month investigation. We told people, whistleblowers, if you go in and talk with them, we don't know that they're on the level. We don't know that they're not just doing a human, you know, suck up information, who knows what, and that they're going to use that and weaponize that against you later. We don't know. But you know, if we can help. Go America. Do you guys want to talk to these, you know, folks? So people said yes. Most people said yes in good faith. And they did. I come to find out that it was a complete ruse. My lawyer said it really well. He says, jeremy, they don't need a podcast. He's ribbon at me, sure you don't need a journalist podcaster to know where the bodies are buried. You know, they. They. They're the odni. They'll know. So this whole thing, he says, doesn't make sense. This feels to me like they're just trying to get information. But, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm a little naive. I want, you know, I want openness. I want transparency. I want to, you know, put them with the people who willingly want to be, you know, put together. I thought it would give them some immunity. So, like with Matthew Brown and with Dylan Borland, if they testify to odni, they already did, or Dylan already did with icig. I figured it would give them another layer of protect. They're doing the right thing, right?

Interviewer

So I tell them, don't go into a scif.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't tell them what to do. I tell them what the environment is. They wanted to give testimony. They wanted to take these steps to do the right thing. So it just becomes such a briar patch with these agencies and people and false friendships. You really can't make a lot of new friends. Like, I've learned that. And I have to do, like, background on anybody that's really coming into my life. And it's a very weird thing. I just thought I was doing journalism on UFOs. But then seeing all of this and the value system of some of the stuff that George and I have put out, we know that it's right on the cutting edge of, you know, you got to do it right. You can't mess up anyway. So that. That's the. That was the first thing about government intervention. But the other thing you asked, what did you just ask?

Interviewer

Well, Matthew Brown, but also how the movie came to be, right?

Jeremy Corbell

So the movie was the kid, Michael. I was like, here's. Well, Michael saw that. There's a lot of little vignettes that I did, but I had never really put out full things on the footage.

Interviewer

How did you find him? How'd you guys.

Jeremy Corbell

He, you know, he called and left a voice message in an email, which is what I asked people to do because I just can't read all the emails. And so he was smart. Like, he. He did it the way I asked. But I get, you know, probably like you, that a lot of people want to help all the time, but you can't trust people. You know, what, how do you trust somebody coming into this? There has to be some Sort of legacy of trust. But I was like, dying, dude. I was like working my butt off. I was filming, editing, Weaponize. I'm not. I'm a horrible editor. Like, I can't do it as fast as other people. This kid's right out of afi. He's super slick, got a great eye. He's slick. Yeah. And my wife's like, you need help. You need help. You can't. This is not sustainable. You're working 247 on just this reporting with George. You need help. So I called him back. Such a nice kid. Then I immediately regretted it. Pit in my stomach. Like, I can't let somebody in my life. I don't know. Some of this stuff is sensitive. But he came on to be a producer and editor, and he produces all the weaponized. So it was like, over the course of like a year plus got to know him and his family, realized that, you know, he's kind of like me. Like, he just wants to know as much as he can and thinks it's important.

Interviewer

That's interesting that you really didn't trust them at first.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, hell no. I can't. I can't, man. I can't. I've been burned a lot.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

So, you know, people would love to control mine and George's reporting. Oh, yeah, they would love to do that. And we have evaded that somehow, you know, to date. So the kid, you know, says, well, I know you have a lot of footage you never put out. You know, can I look through it? And I'm like, okay, I've got this huge drive. It's insurmountable amount of footage. He goes, oh, look, there's like a bunch of movies in there. So the whole idea for him was he was going to go through my, you know, 12, 15 years of footage longer than that. And because it was back stuff too. And he was like, I'm gonna make. I can make some movies out of it. I'm like, good. I'll never do it. I'm already onto this thing. You should do it. Then he started actually seeing and hearing the interference. Like, because he's. He'd be on weaponized producing stuff, you know, I. I'd show him some video or some calls just to inform him of the stakes of some of it. And he's like, dude, we gotta show this. This is a First Amendment issue. This is a journalism issue. There's no reason why journalists like you and George should have this much. These many people during a time of war badge contacts, sitting down where agencies are like, you know, watch what you're doing. Or, hey, we're doing this UFO program, and we, you know, we just want to get a lay of the land. And Georgia's patriotic, too, right? So there's a part of us that really wants the good guys inside of these agencies, and they are trying to figure it out. Some of them are trying to figure it out because they don't have access to the information like other agencies. So, like, with Congress, where we can help, we help. And so that's where the. The line changes from journalism to, like, activism. Like, I'm definitely setting up hearings. Like, they'll call me, like, red hotline phone. We don't have a hearing. Do you know any whistleblowers I'm like, that are willing to talk? So I've kind of become a liaison between people that have something to say and with, you know, Congress, but then also with agencies? Let me explain that before people go crazy, right? If your Department of Justice and so FBI and you hear that there are these swarms and these flyovers on critical infrastructure and you are getting blocked out from that information by DOE as an example, then let's say I get a call from somebody who has access to the Honeywell security systems, and they're like, there is a pyramid that lifted up out of this body of water and came over the base, and we have nowhere to send it. We don't know what to do. We know. We see in the media that the DOJ isn't getting this footage. And I'm like, okay, look, I have some people in DOJ that I know are running a UFO program. I know you can trust them, that there won't be repercussions. It is lawfully what they're asking for. Would you like to talk to these people who I do trust, and both parties say yes, and then I can, like, link them together. So that. That kind of goes beyond journalism to where I'm just trying to get. I try to do the right thing.

Interviewer

Right? I'm relieved to hear that there's good guys in the system. I don't know who's running things. It's clearly not Congress or the President.

Jeremy Corbell

Right? And they don't know either. So to give you an example, with this Honeywell footage, once I made that connection between the security folks and with the Department of Justice, before they could have a meetup, that footage of that object that came up out of the water, that's what they said. And, like, why would you do this whole thing as a ruse? Like, they're putting A lot on the line. To me, it got confiscated is the best way to say it. Like out of that system. But there's a demarcation of who now owns it solely, and that's DOE of energy. So it. And that is outside apparently the scope of some of the DOJ stuff. So. Because the national security stuff, so you just see that kind of thing happen. So that. That's been kind of the. The dance I've been doing is trying to get whistleblowers to come to me from the embryonic stage, vetting them, making sure they're not just messing with me to the point where I'll put them in front of the national security people of Congress, where they have to go through this grueling process in order to testify. So that's what I've been doing over a number of years.

Interviewer

How did that pyramid footage, how do they flag that? How do they even know that was happening?

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know. I'm not like, really in depth with those systems. I just know that they had. So a bunch of these security people had access to it for a good duration of time. Enough to call Batman and, you know, tell me about it.

Interviewer

Right?

Jeremy Corbell

I mean, who do you call with that kind of thing when you're seeing it? What do you write? Like a, you know, thing. This isn't going to doj. Like, they've asked. I don't know. So, so then what happened is. All I know is that when they ended up going for was whatever taken or shut down by doe, so only DOE has access to it.

Interviewer

It's so hard because these are all people with clearance and careers. And there's the Espionage act. And, you know, they're. They're getting knocks on the door saying, you're a good. You're going to be hung as a traitor.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, so there is both badged contact and unbadged contact. So there's official and unofficial questioning of people. I'll give you a concrete example because we're talking real outer space right now with, with this. I want people to understand it. Okay. So George and I obtained and released a piece of footage called Syria 2021. UAP. When we obtained that, we assessed it, we did background. We found out over a good amount of time, couple years, that that is a piece of footage designated UAP by our intelligence agencies that in fact, it was part of a collection process on uap. Like it's a. In a special area. We knew we had a real video that they designated uap.

Interviewer

What department?

Jeremy Corbell

Well, that gets that. That gets Murky, because I don't know ownership at that time. Like, who has ownership?

Interviewer

I was just curious.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it was. Well, it's just. It's FLIR footage. It's out. It's out in the wild.

Interviewer

Oh, it's. It's legit.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I. I believe it is legit in that it does demonstrate instantaneous acceleration. But to give you an example, those title cards you see are replicated, but they're word for word what's in the. The actual thing. So what you're seeing is an analysis by the intelligence agencies of a uap, an unknown that appears to be demonstrating instantaneous movement. Now, people have tried to argue it. I'm not like a perfect expert with this stuff, but there are people smarter than me that have done it online. You can see it shoots off visibly first. If you're looking at it, it goes a little bit. When it gets a weapons grade lock, it goes a little bit to the left and then it shoots to the right. And how you know it's shooting to the right is the ground keeps going down as the thing moves to the right. So it's not like an artifact of the lens.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

You're tracking the ground and things. Right. All I can say is our intelligence agencies, they did an extensive analysis, not just on that one sensor, and they determined that that was a uap. It looks like a mushroom if you look at the thermal signature. And that it, that it did demonstrate one of the five observables of, of UFOs. So George and I thought, okay, this is a public interest. We've obtained this, we've vetted it, we're going to put it out. We go and we put it out. Next thing I know, I come to find that there's a guy who, who initiated that report. His name is Logan Lenvo. Right. He's one of these guys that talks. He used to be on the UAP task force. So he got calls, both official and unofficial, meaning like a badge contact where they're like, what's going on with this? How did they get this? He's. I have no idea. They must have good sources. Like, we did not get something. We did not get that from him. But he was getting like a false target painted on him or something. So our response was, we're gonna have him on weaponized. Because I know the guy. Wow. Anybody I know becomes a false target for things that George and I obtained. Anybody George knows? Right? So we want to get right, like, you know, we would never, you know, we're good. I hope we're good journalists and we don't put, you know, sources and witnesses at risk. So we had the guy Logan on the show and, you know, he told us, he said in the thing that he had both official and unofficial contact. We made it really clear. Well, just. We didn't get it from Logan. So there you go. But the fact that they're trying to squeeze him and even ask him, what are they going to put out next? Where did they get that? He goes, I don't know. He did once ask me though, like, you know, in a private conversation, like, who are your sources? All this stuff. I go, are you kidding me?

Interviewer

Right?

Jeremy Corbell

Like, are you kidding me? So I said on the show, if I had answered you right, you were active, like, you would have had. Wouldn't you have had to write that up? And basically. And he goes, yeah, I would.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

So everybody's like a coin, right? There's two sides to them. At least coins have three sides. The truth is always the. So the combination of the two sides is who people are. You can work in intelligence, you can be working in this field, you can be my friend, but I always know, you know, who I'm dealing with. There is this, and I. I totally understand it, is that your job is to do your job. So anyway, that piece of footage, it came out, a lot of people said that we were peddling again, and it wasn't UAP and all this stuff. And then, lo and behold, the government releases that exact piece of footage without all the number systems on it.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

Which is of zero value. If you don't have the numeric systems, you can't track it and understand azimuth, altitude, all this stuff. So you're getting an underhand pitch from our government, because they know they have to.

Interviewer

I'm seeing that they're cropping in now a lot of things. So, yeah, we can't see the angles or the speed anymore.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Or at least they're blacking out.

Interviewer

All, like, with Tic Tac and fast. We don't see that anymore.

Jeremy Corbell

Which is all the valuable numeric information for the trigonometry. We need that. Absolutely do. And so my impression is that what we're seeing in these releases so far is the least that can be given. Sure. The President orders that there is transparency on this. However, is the President watching, Like, who's regulating what they have and what they're putting out? Who's even doing it? And I don't even know. But I do know it is so odd that out of the hundreds of Thousands of UAP videos. Much better than. Than what you've seen publicly. Right. That we're getting primarily the stuff that's already been out there in some way or the other.

Interviewer

The last dump was all stuff we

Jeremy Corbell

saw already, was it?

Interviewer

Mostly, I think, yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know. I just know that there's. It is so ironic out of hundreds of thousands of videos that would show uap, that are designated uap, that show the five observables, some of them that we're just getting, mainly the ones that have already come out as if they're new, you know.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

And so I don't know what to think anymore. I don't know who's watching the people that are deciding what to put out any in each agency. And by the way, it's all coming through probably Arrow. You know, it has a lot of say in it, which we know. They've been totally disingenuous to the American public. They've demeaned and demoted and tried to harm whistleblowers all along the way. Maybe they're different now, new management, but man, their job is to, to keep secrets. So I just, I don't know what's going to happen. But I do know that if they don't start talking about biologics and reverse engineering, you have people like David Grush that are out there saying, I have direct knowledge of those. It was my job to find out. They're going to run into issues if they don't start telling the American public the truth about those two things. If it, if it is true, I have no definitive way of knowing. But if it is true, they have to start hitting on that.

Interviewer

I've noticed that the narrative, the lexicon has changed from UFO to uap, from aliens to biologics, non human intelligence. And you use that lexicon as well.

Jeremy Corbell

I hate it. I like UFOs.

Interviewer

I do too.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

Why? Why do you use that?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, so that I think very smart why people are using that. There's two reasons. Start with ufo. Hillary Clinton was actually one of the first people to, to say uap son Jimmy Kimmel. Many, many years ago.

Interviewer

Wow.

Jeremy Corbell

Many years ago. Right. And. And because internally what they realized is that the UAP issue is all domain. It's space, it's air, it's sea. That that term not only is stigmatized UFO, unidentified flying object. It doesn't describe the, the Usos, the underwater.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

It doesn't describe things that go through all mediums. So they say all domain. Like how do we call it all domain. And they're like, well, uap, Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. Used to be aerial. Yes, anomalous phenomena. So they're like refining the language. It is better. It's got less stigma. So like major publications, they don't feel silly you know, doing uap because that worked.

Interviewer

It did that scam work.

Jeremy Corbell

It did work. It did work. And that was our government trying to make it laugh factory. Yes, that's historic fact. So it did work. So I kind of like, I'm of two minds of it. I, I hate it. Like, I love ufo, come on, let's call me. But it is a much more articulated and thoughtful term. Nhi, I think is actually really smart because not just because the word alien is, you know, has a stigma as well, because anything's going to be alien with it, with, with the artificial intelligence way that it is. Right now we know for a fact that there is a technological aspect to intelligence like that. If we can build this non human intelligence, it's just, it's a better term that I think doesn't create the stigma and is more encompassing non human intelligence. Because these, these things that are flying around, we don't know some of them, they look like they got beings on them, but these could be cybernetic organisms, printed flesh that all work off of a hive mind of artificial. I mean, you've heard those stories where

Interviewer

they come in contact. It looks like an alien, but you get close. It's more like a robot and it's like AI or something so trippy.

Jeremy Corbell

I never met one.

Interviewer

I haven't either.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, so those, I think that's the terminology difference.

Interviewer

Yeah. So we're allowed to use it. I, I don't just don't want to play into the hands.

Jeremy Corbell

Right, because your idea is that we're being indoctrinated into a certain lexicon. They call it like. Yeah, yes. And look, we, we might be, I, I don't know ultimately with this, it's, it's so forward moving. But I can tell you the parts, the mechanics behind it are not orchestrated like we have fought tooth and nail to get every single piece out. There isn't like some group of people like the David Grush and Elizondo's and they're, dude, they're not working together on this. Like, if you knew them as people, you've seen what have happened in their lives, you know, their families. This is not, unfortunately, some coordinated disclosure. I don't believe that. And I told you I've been naive before, but I don't think I'm naive now on it. I think that we're in a different environment and I think we're saying things out loud we didn't before. I think our technologies have gotten better to the point where pilots. It can't be ignored what they're seeing and what they're recording. Now that started with the Fravor incident.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. So I, I just feel like, or popularly it started the Favor incident. So I just think we're living in a different time and they're playing catch up and having to admit certain things. But I don't know that the language is really being weaponized against us. I just think they're better terms biologics because it's like, you know, we don't know. Are they printed machines? We know, we, we don't know. I don't know.

Interviewer

Maybe.

Jeremy Corbell

Maybe there's people that do.

Interviewer

There are people who do I. Who know. I would suspect some stuff in the movie was there's an interesting tension where it's one scene you're on the phone with. With Lazar and he's telling you, he's telling you to stop.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

He's saying stop pushing. And then you're on a zoom call with Fravor and he's saying if release it all, send them to jail, do it.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

So you have material that would put powerful people in jail.

Jeremy Corbell

Not just material. Like I have documented a lot of the interference, you know, throughout my life and I have been. And I've given it to my lawyer and so. So a lot of stuff happens behind the scenes.

Interviewer

So. So a third party does have that.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh yeah.

Interviewer

Your attorney has that.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not talking just like files, like images. I'm talking like when there has been interference on journalists and attempts at entrapment which apparently are legal. I want, I wanted the legal process to know about some of this. When, when you had ODNI run a nine month thing that was disingenuous. I think that should be public.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. Because you, you've. Yeah. And. And we'll see how much of that becomes public. So a lot happens behind the scenes. Not everything is about journalism and to be reported on a lot of this is like personal life stuff. That was a very hard time in my life. So we were give you a concrete example. My, My family had to meet with an agency because of a. A verified actionable threat to my family. That's as far as want to go, but like to my family. Right.

Interviewer

So yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

So they're telling me about the threat and There are implications of, of who was behind that threat. That is a horrible thing for your family to have to go through. That changed the dynamic of how my family has to operate. Yes, because of that. And it's not just like somebody whispering it to you or you get some email. This is an. A federal agency giving my family safety protocols. Not cool. No, not cool. So, so that was like a very hard time for me.

Interviewer

So did that cool down?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I feel like I've done everything in my self defense as possible, which is making sure that it is known within federal circles. Like I, all of it's documented. And so I feel like as a private thing, that is something the movie showed because he turned the camera around, wanted to show the interference we were getting. Because to Michael, the biggest proof about UFOs, he always says, is during wartime. He saw the meetings like, so during wartime you've got all these federal agents on you. And George, it just doesn't make financial sense. You have terrorists coming to the country. You can't even put one federal agent on. Right. So that was the biggest proof for him. Hey, something's up. So he turned that camera around instead of making a movie about all these UFO things and says, you know, this is a element of protection for you and your family. That's what he told me.

Interviewer

Me, it is.

Jeremy Corbell

And I, I bought into that and I think it did to a degree. Because it's, it's, it's film. Not everything's in the movie, you know, so when you're talking about the movie. Yeah, Lazar really was talking me off the ledge. You know, he was saying, look, I always said we should admit, admit this is real. That there are craft made by what seem to be non humans, that they have a technology that we can't replicate, we can't duplicate. But he says, that's where I say it should stop.

Interviewer

Just acknowledge it and move on.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. That was Lazar's, what he's saying to me in the movie. And I'm like, yeah, but dude, I've come to this point where I have to follow through with, you know, with journalism, with George. Like you see us make a decision in that hotel room. But you have to understand that was a long time ago. We've been doing it, we've been doing it. We've been putting out like people forget I put out with George the, the Air Force disc. Guess what? Our government also just put that.

Interviewer

Yeah, they did.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. It's just, it's funny. So we show some, some clips in the film of some Footage that was just me doing my normal process, digging

Interviewer

in the desert, you know, that was a crazy scene.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, because you can't, you know, you have to. Even if it's not like you have to be care. Even if it's not like real footage, like I, I'm not having. If I get something, I don't know what's on it, I have to review it. I'm not. Nothing's in my house, bro. You know what I mean? So for sure, as journalists, we're protecting sources, we're protecting methods, we're protecting footage. What if it is damaging? What if we talked about national security stuff? I'll be on the hook for that. So what you're seeing is, you're seeing part of the process that George and I go through.

Interviewer

It's tradecraft.

Jeremy Corbell

Yes, I guess it is, but really, it's just. I'm trying to do responsible journalism where I'm not just letting stuff out of my control. I'm trying to assess it and see if it has public value. Do I even think it has public value? Is it, is it dangerous to people? And, and then choosing the stuff that would make the most impact and getting it for public interest and getting it out to the world. So you're seeing me assess stuff. I'm not ever going to just, you know, put a bunch of stuff out when I don't know its value. I don't know who it's going to hurt. That's. I'm just not, you know, I don't know if that's journalism. I just ain't doing it. I'm not, I'm not here to hurt people. So I am here to try to learn the truth about this as best I can and share what I can with the world. That's what I'm trying to do. And George and I have done our best at it so far. So what you're seeing in that movie is stuff I'm reviewing. I'm reviewing it. And it took a lot for me to let Michael film over my, my shoulder on that. But now you look at all that footage, what the government do. Oh, I think, I think all of those videos are out now. They are the actual hard copy. Great. Then we've provoked change, man.

Interviewer

You have.

Jeremy Corbell

Keep it going, keep it going. And footage will always come in. Information will always come in. And, and over time, I, I think we'll continue doing our reporting. If we're not stopped, we're not, you know, get in trouble for it. We're just trying to do journalism in America under the First Amendment.

Interviewer

Yeah, you're so. You're so careful.

Jeremy Corbell

I have to be.

Interviewer

Do you think they're hiding a lot of stuff behind the contractors?

Jeremy Corbell

I know they are.

Interviewer

You know they are.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, I know they are. Yeah. I mean, you've had people come out and say it, like, how put off we're talking about. That is the method. That is the way. That is the way that you stop FOIA requests. That is the way that you don't have to have accountability. And it's to the point where our own government is looking at it be like, what the. Like, we don't have control of this stuff anymore. No, Very famously, the Lockheed transfer was supposed to occur under osap. Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Application Program.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

And you know, that's the thing there. Everybody got confused. That New York Times article with a tip and all. SAP. It's a little bit in the weeds here, so it's not so important. Everybody involved is a hero in my book. They have all tried to some degree whether some of it be government mandated, hey, we better tell the public a little bit about this. In my experience, everybody's tried to do their best to some degree to get stuff out. We've had UFO programs. They're acknowledged. That's a huge win. We were told, nothing to see here. Move on. Project Blue Book. We killed it in 1969. That's it. All of a sudden we realized, oh, no, we've been studying this ever since then. I'll tell you this. UFOs are considered higher security than weapons of mass destruction. And you have to ask yourself why? And I'm not saying that frivolously. Ask George Knapp. We have been in official meetings where we have met people where their job is weapons of mass destruction related to uap. We were taken aback. We're like, well, we've always heard that

Interviewer

this is why DOE is involved.

Jeremy Corbell

Right? We always heard that. You know, why is that? And it's the propulsion systems themselves. If they can create so much energy to do what we think they're doing, what they appear to be doing, instantaneous acceleration, possibly folding or warping time space itself. The amount of energy needed to do that is so astronomical, that is fundamentally a weapon. Look at it from like a. Let's Simpsonize it. You know, like Bart Simpson style. Fravor did this wonderfully. You know, he says, look, if we have Tic Tacs, right, what can we do? He's like, we can send it up over a country, drop it down from outer space, be back up in Less than a second. Deliver a dirty bomb, a nuke. No one will ever know who did it. So even just as a payload, if we could ever harness the ability to replicate these craft, it's a strategic surprise, strategic advantage that every country wants. And that is the. The core of the secrecy from day one, was always that we don't understand this tech, but we need to duplicate it before our enemies do. And that's why I know. That is why we kept a secret for a long time. Problem is, cats out of the bag

Interviewer

now because China and Russia have to be doing the same thing.

Jeremy Corbell

They are. And it's not me saying that, like Dr. McCaskey, who's the head of the UFO program for the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Interviewer

I'd love to hear his story. Didn't he say that we got through the bulkhead of a craft?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, he. We breached the hole. Breached the hole of a craft. So people ask, how can he say this? And it's a legitimate question, like, is that a psyop? Is that just, like, a lie? Well, I'll tell you, I know him. George has known him for over a decade. He's a patriot. He is the exact kind of person that you would want in a role in our intelligence agencies because he does not break from the fold. He's only saying what he begged and asked for to be authorized. He wants to take pride in his work, man. So he went through the dotser process, and he says, here's the scope of the books I want to write, which is, by the way, probably the biggest disclosures we've had about our government doing this stuff is. It's so nerdy. But if you read his books, you know, if you can conceive of what he's saying. He's told us more about the US's investigations into UAP than I'm thinking than any other individual as far as the scope of it. Right. But here's what he said. He said, we. He says, I can admit that the US government has one craft, one nhi, not. Not just of unknown origin, like, they don't know who build it. It has a technology far superior to ours. There's no intakes, no exhaust, no even place to store fuel. By his own description, through the diagnosis. And they. They put all this out, and. And we breached the hull of it. That's about as. As far as. As he's gone with it, there is an admission from a top government official who I can tell you is being genuine. I mean, of course, people will create conspiracies because they don't know him in that way. He is trying in the sunset of his life to tell people as much as he can. And he is not a big proponent of disclosure like, like you and I might be. He comes from this cold war mentality of like you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies, of course. So it takes a lot for him to get there, but he feels it's important we know that much. Now you've had people like how put off, say we've got more than, does more than a dozen just in the U.S. right. That's a guy that would know. Do you think he's just making that up? You know, is that a government conspiracy that he would say that? Maybe, maybe.

Interviewer

I don't know.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't, I don't know. But I just know he's not the only one singing that tune. And they're not all coordinating with one another. There's friction amongst all these people.

Interviewer

That's interesting. You think there's friction among the contractors?

Jeremy Corbell

There is definitely questions about which contractors got what.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

And that's why Lockheed was and this is a documented transfer attempt. Is they the Vice President? Lockheed Martin tried to give technology and we're talking, we don't know who built it, but it ain't Russia, China or us to the, to the OS app. And that transfer got completely denied. And my understanding it was from the head of science and technology of the CIA at the time, Glenn Gaffney. Now that can be argued that he actually did he himself block that transfer, but it was his, his office, his department. So there you have a documented attempt at NHI technology transfer that got denied. What other corporations have craft, have aspects of the technology and how come they're not all working together with the brightest minds, you know, they can't transfer it

Interviewer

back to the government because then, then we find out I, I don't gotta stay.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I, I don't know. But that was Bob Lazar's gripe the whole way through. He says I'm not the most qualified guy to be working on this. I'm probably the easiest to be discredited. It was like a show and tell. He barely got to, to work there on that stuff. They were looking for a change, man. They were looking for any left handed, you know, outside of the box kind of thinker to come in and try something that hadn't been tried before because they've been stalled a bunch of times. They've made progress, I hear a little bit over time. But we, we, the throttle is the material science, the best of my knowledge, the throttle is the material science. We can't replicate the alloys and the skins and the. Even the systems themselves or the fuel sources is how I understand it.

Interviewer

So Bob never said that we had craft that we were testing?

Jeremy Corbell

No, he. No, he. He did. He said he saw a low performance test. But there's so many holes in that that he acknowledges. Like to give you an example, they displayed to him that they were in communication with the pilot through a radio. And Bob says, how is that even possible? Because if you have a bubble of space time of gravity, you're not radio waves going to get in and out of that.

Interviewer

No.

Jeremy Corbell

So apparently to. According to his understanding, they did these low performance tests because they had ripped out one of the reactors or something. You haven't heard about this Crazy. So that's why they were doing these low performance tests. Now you'd push that off and you'd be like, okay, cool story, bro. Except he brought people out on multiple Wednesday nights and I have talked to all of them that went out there, right, to see a disc flying over the mountains.

Interviewer

And they saw it.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And he did not win awards for taking people out there, I'll tell you that. Like, they were pissed. So the truth falls somewhere in there that we have, okay, we definitely have craft, and we definitely have been exploiting them for what they call derivative technologies that I am 100% on. I have personally, all this time I've gotten to the point where that's not, for me, a question mark anymore. The question mark for me is how far have we gotten? You know, what, what is the limiting factor? Can we replicate any of this technology? Like the triangles people talk about? They were doing sorties on a base with one of these triangles with a guy that didn't testify, but we had him unweaponized. David got Daniel Gawkerell. So he saw us doing sorties with one of these gigantic triangles around a military base. So we have something from that technology.

Interviewer

What do you think about the legends, the stories about fiber optics coming from craft?

Jeremy Corbell

Phil Corso is really the root of that.

Interviewer

He is right. But I feel like I debunked a lot of his story.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Oh, totally.

Interviewer

But you think there is some derivative technology?

Jeremy Corbell

I really don't know. If I listen to. I know, I'm sorry. If I listen to one, you know, individual that I respect, most likely we have figured out a lot of the, the, the alloys, like what they're composed.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

But that we still can't replicate them. With perfect atomic layering. And that's the throttle on it. I talked to somebody else who is in a position to know. And they're like, they're not ours. I'm like, what do you mean they're not ours? Have we. They're just not ours? Well, who's piloting them? So I get different messages and I just don't know the answer to them.

Interviewer

I know. Yeah. It seems to all come down to the material science that we just. We're just not there yet.

Jeremy Corbell

That is my. That is my best guess. And I know that we will get there someday. You know, the bigger questions are, are we being helped? Because if you've been paying attention, a lot of these aren't crashes. They're. They're almost like discarded things. It's like you're throwing an iPhone into a cage and just saying, see what you can do with this.

Interviewer

They've been called gifts in some stories.

Jeremy Corbell

Some people call them that. Offerings. Gifts.

Interviewer

Who? So who's the intelligence behind them? Is it us from the future? Is it aliens from another planet?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

What is it? Who are they?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. I mean, if we're there in the conversation. Right. Because we just got to the point in our society where UFOs are real.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

And we're so. I think we're solidly there.

Interviewer

We're solid.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay. So that's a huge achievement. Like, you know, people have been seeing them forever, so now we know. Okay, thanks, Daddy. You just told us they're real.

Interviewer

So it took 70 years though, right?

Jeremy Corbell

Right.

Interviewer

Nice to know. You know, in the 50s, when they work in an anti gravity, then suddenly.

Jeremy Corbell

But they were worried about it. Right. So I think, I think back then they were worried about other really hostile nations.

Interviewer

Of course.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. So I'm not making excuses for it. I'm just saying I understand why the campaigns were of dismissal and denial where now at least we've, we've made it there. That. Okay, UFOs are real, but what are UFOs? Are they just craft? Are they like hard metal? That's definitely part of it. But. But what are these intelligent plasmoids people are talking about?

Interviewer

I was going to ask you, what are the. These orbs, spheres that are spiritual that we're seeing now?

Jeremy Corbell

So you call them spiritual? I don't know. I'm not inclined to call them spiritual. I can just go off reports. But I mean, if you want me to theorize, man, it's like, yeah, if you're. If you're bending space and time and you've got you know, some machine that can do that. You know, I don't know what that looks like optically. You know, we might just be seeing, like, a tip of an iceberg above the water. There might be something much bigger behind that. And people seem to have this understanding that there's a consciousness element.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

With. With especially these orbs, these lights in the sky. I can't deny that the reports all show that. I don't know what that means. Is that just egocentrism, where you're like, I'm calling in the. I don't think anybody's calling in anything. I think these things are always there, and then at times you can perceive them because everybody. They say they're summoners. I'm against summoning shit, man. Like, I don't believe you are. I. I think that there's a perforated boundary of reality and you are perceiving it.

Interviewer

Chris Bledsoe can do some wild stuff, man.

Jeremy Corbell

I hear about that. And I've met a lot of these guys.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Have you seen something with it?

Interviewer

I haven't, but. But Gino has.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

You follow Jack Fillet's early work? From the seventies to a degree.

Jeremy Corbell

Jacques Valle's fucking. Jacques valet.

Interviewer

Jacques Valle.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

So he talks about, we'll perceive these UFOs, how. Wherever we are in the culture.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

So in the 50s and 60s, it's a flying saucer. In the 70s and 80s, it's something else. Now it's a spiritual or. Because that's kind of. We are where the zeitgeist is going to. Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

I. I don't know if I fully buy that. Like, I used to think that UFOs were like flying saucers. Like, that's all I knew. And you look at history, there's always been the variety pack. There's always been orbs, the Foo Fighters. There's always been cylinders, triangles, pyramids.

Interviewer

All the John Lee said very.

Jeremy Corbell

All the John Lee still bothers me to this day. If he's right about people on the sun, I am just giving up. You know, that's crazy. But, yeah, I mean, look like. I think the bottom line of it for me is I don't have any special knowledge that other people don't have. I've got special questions. Like, I've been. I've gotten to the point where I know the right questions to ask when I'm in the presence of people that might have been working on some of this. Jock Valley one time came out to my ranch, and this lasting impression I have of him is like the sun was going down and we had just driven out to this, like, you know, raw acreage I had. And I'm like, hey man, just tell me what do you know for sure about UFOs? And he says, what I know for sure is you have better questions than I ever had at a young age. And you gotta, like, keep asking him, you know, because it was like he feels it's progressed so much. And here's what I will say, though, about UFOs, is that I truly believe that. So, like, back in the day, you know, the ancient Greeks thought that stars were, you know about this. Hummingbirds plucked holes in the firmament. Right? And now we know about galaxies and we know about the universe is maybe expanding or whatever. We know about suns and exoplanets. So that difference between being the ancient Greek and thinking hummingbirds going up there and pecking out the firmament to what we know about galaxies. I really hope the UFO thing is going to be as big a conceptual shift for us. Like, I don't think it's just craft mother planets. I think that there is so much more to this mystery that we're not even asking the right questions and that once we get a few answers, we might just. Jaw drop, be like we were like the ancient Greeks, totally misunderstanding.

Interviewer

I think you're. You're exactly right that they can just show up and be like you. You thought we were from a thousand light years away. We can't do that. We've been here the whole time.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. The argument that's already percolating in my mind right now is why would you buy a. Or why would you build a Ferrari if you didn't want to go fast?

Interviewer

Right?

Jeremy Corbell

So why do these craft appear by their very nature to be able to travel amongst the stars if we didn't build them to do that, or if whoever built them to do that, there's no fingerprint in our society. Like, your brother told me that you and I should talk maybe about the Tic Tac, because it is your unders. Your belief that that's a Lockheed Martin technology.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

And I'm firmly in the other camp and I would like to know why you believe that. Because I haven't heard everything, but if you don't mind, I'd love to hear.

Interviewer

I'm probably not educated enough to really

Jeremy Corbell

sell it or just the ideas. I'm not. This is not a.

Interviewer

But I just. By going by memory, I think the trigonometry showed that it wasn't moving as fast as we were told. But I don't want to go on record as being totally skeptical.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. I've heard it a lot.

Interviewer

But. But I'd rather. I'd rather hear your take. Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, I'll tell you why that dissolved for me very quickly. First of all, it was a very depressing day for me. I used to think that we had total control of these things. I used to think, oh, man, we really done it. American ingenuity.

Interviewer

You really did.

Jeremy Corbell

I did. Early on I had this idea of reverse engineered craft.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

That we just been hiding this shit. And that we have made gigantic headway. And that there's some, you know, within the government. There were some outsourced contractors that really did it. And I was very sad the day when that was taken away from me. That. That idea.

Interviewer

Why? Because if they had anti gravity and this unlimited energy, they need to share that.

Jeremy Corbell

Exactly.

Interviewer

That's. That'd be. If they're not sharing that.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like, that would be bullshit.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And it would slowly, completely change the world that we would have to build different infrastructure. I don't think it would happen overnight.

Interviewer

No. But we wouldn't have war anymore. Energy.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. That would be the hope, right?

Interviewer

That'd be the hope.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

We'd still have a war, but still.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, yeah. But it would be. It be. It'd be the hope. And so now I see. I see your point of view there and. Yeah, absolutely. That'd be complete. But there was this part of me that it was just. At least it explained it, you know.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

And then I was in a situation where. Which. Which I don't. For personal. I don't want to get too much into it, but I was satisfied with the idea from people that know that if it's big, it's silent, it is not ours that we don't have that tech. And it kind of. It kind of made me sad because I thought, how cool if we did, maybe it would percolate out. Maybe the world would get better from that then talking to more and more people involved in these programs. I've been pretty high up on the food chain, dude. And I always get to that stopping point. Don't kick a sleeping dog. I think that's why he named the movie Sleeping Dog.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Because I've been told that like a ton. It's like they practice that line, you know, like, don't go too far with it.

Interviewer

That's kind of scary.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And I don't know what they're afraid of. It's like the, the boogie monster. It's like something in the closet. What would be so bad about us knowing about the nature of reality itself that maybe we're not alone in the universe? Maybe we're not the most advanced technological civilization. Like, what is the big fucking fear that people have of knowing about the natural world? I know great white sharks exist. That's why I don't jump in the ocean that much. But you know, at least I know. Yeah, at least I know.

Interviewer

Well, what do you think happens to just a normal person if disclosure happens? I'm a teacher. I wake up in the morning, how is life different?

Jeremy Corbell

Well, what do you think? I mean, do you think? I think a lot has happened a little bit.

Interviewer

Right? I think so. I, I, I'm very distrustful of the government. Very, very, very much so. I don't, I don't see full disclosure ever coming. Yeah, I really don't. Yeah. Not, not as long as we're in a world where we're constantly bombing each other.

Jeremy Corbell

Right.

Interviewer

You just can't let, can't let China know what you have.

Jeremy Corbell

They have no motivation to disclose shit. You know, the underhanded pitch let you know what, what all they need you to know because people are seeing them, okay? They're real. But, but that's the cutoff. I, I don't see it happening.

Interviewer

I'm annoyed at myself because if I'm running Lockheed, I'm not telling you what we have, right? I'm just not telling you because then China is going to have what we have. It can't do that. We need an advantage, right? So I'm torn between patriotism and wanting to know what's going on.

Jeremy Corbell

Right?

Interviewer

And I don't know where to fall.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. So, okay, about the, the Tic Tac stuff. So I've been exposed and so has George Knapp to a lot of the technical information about what they observed over those course of weeks. So I told Commander Fravor before he was public that this story is going to get out. Like it's too big a story. It won't be from me and I kept my word and it won't be for me. But that story will percolate. It will get out. Look, if I found out I did the Ned day, if I found out about it, then I'm just some weirdo with a beard and tattoos dude. Other real journals I gotta find out about. I said this to him like early on. He kind of laughed, laughed me off. Said it's not that important. He knew it was important. So because of George's position, where he's. As a great journalist who's got a lot of trust with people, you know, we've been exposed to some of. We tried to submit to Congress one time a technological report of the Tic Tacs was that it would kind of answer some of the detailed questions about that. And, you know, we couldn't. I'll just say we couldn't submit it to Congress in a lawful way. So we were unable to get that on Congressional Record. How the DIA did a bunch of reports on the Tic Tacs because they were studying. It was the first thing they were studying. Ah. But the thing is, is when you're a journalist, you obtain and then how do you release? You have to be very. It has to be lawful, dude. So we tried to get Congress to get. I'll say to get Congress to get a report that we are very familiar with. They were unable to do so. They were stonewalled. I'll say. They pretended like it doesn't exist. The dia.

Interviewer

Dia.

Jeremy Corbell

And we can't find it.

Interviewer

Right, right.

Jeremy Corbell

We were fighting to get this out to the public. What you can take to the bank is Commander Fravor is the guy that chased the Tic Tac. So he saw it with his own eyes.

Interviewer

Was the mission to chase that Tic Tac or was it an accident?

Jeremy Corbell

Both. So what happened was he's out on a normal training mission. He's over at another point and the guy calls him up and says, what weapons do you got on board? And he's like, what? He's like, what weapons have you got on board? He's like, this is like a training mission. Like, beautiful day, like, nothing going on. So he's already. He made some joke. He's like, I got a Catam 9. If you got a sledgehammer, like, basically, you know, got nothing. So they're like, they task him to go out to a point and they go out and they didn't give him any information. So he thought maybe when he. When they saw this circular, disturbed part of the water, at first he thought was it like a down is like something sinking, like, what's going on? And so as he gets closer, he sees this little Tic Tac, you know, down by the water. And he said like a. Like a ping pong ball on a glass, in a glass. He said it was just insane, you know. And so the. He goes, I want to see what that is. And he dives down. As he dives down, it starts. It notices him. First of all, it like turns its nose and then starts mirroring his exact flight path. And then it came up next to him and then like that and he goes. You could only see it move because it was this like disturbance of it moving. So you could see it go. But it was just absolutely beyond imagination. For a guy that flies some of the fastest planes, right. And a guy that by the way protected Los Angeles during 9 11, it's a very trusted. There's no war nerves or anything like this.

Interviewer

Nope.

Jeremy Corbell

So the dude had a really good visual on it and he goes where, where to go? And his, the controller is like. You're not going to believe it, Commander, it's at your cap point. And that was like miles and miles away. We've tried to calculate. The time is almost instantaneously. We're not sure because of the way the radar works. But also that was an encrypted cap point. It was almost like a, like a game of cat and mouse.

Interviewer

Like it knew, like it knew.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. So he wasn't going to shoot anything down. He didn't have any hot missiles. But when he saw it, his curiosity, he where other people were a little bit terrified about what they were seeing, he went and really went to go see it. Now there's a lot of questions that raised from that. So original reporting, you'll, you'll have heard that there was something under the water, right. Now that's becomes this big debate. There was an object that appeared to be under the water. What was this thing doing? Well, I'll tell you, it wasn't the only one. So there were weeks of stuff up in above 80,000ft, which they really didn't want me to say for a long time because for some reason that's a scan volume of the spy one, right. It was above 80,000ft. So space, so that's a vehicle that changes domains from space to air to sea. It was coming down. And now, you know, talk with some of the people like Kevin Knuth who did the studies on the, on the speed of it dropping down. But by all accounts, that I know whatever speed it was dropping down defies our understanding of how that can occur.

Interviewer

And it doesn't disturb water. Right.

Jeremy Corbell

So the tic tacs we never saw go into the water. What happened was, was all these ones were loitering at two different altitudes. And this is, I believe over the course of two weeks some of the controllers were seeing them up there, so they knew this was an area of interest, but they just didn't have like the gas or the time to go out there. Right. Also, this is a training zone. If you see a black project, Let me get to that with who sees it next. Okay, so they go, this thing was going down and the words that were said to me before this was a famous public case was docking. That was the, the choice word. Now they meant like a, like a chi charger, like an air, like it just seemed to be hovering over this thing. Now the disturbance of the water, it was in a circular pattern. But the thing that appeared to be under the water appeared to have a cross shape. Whatever, whatever. There appeared to be something under the water and these things coming down and, and hitting over it again. It wasn't one Tic Tac, it was many. And that's what, No, I, I, I don't know. We, I, I could, I could go get a more accurate, I mean like

Interviewer

three or like ten.

Jeremy Corbell

A dozen.

Interviewer

A dozen or more.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And I don't, I always am so afraid of misspeaking. Let me go back to my notes on everything.

Interviewer

It's multiple.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. But it was, it was something that was occurring for a, a duration of time. So you have to ask yourself, what were they doing? Like, what was the mission? What was the point purpose? And that's what killed me about this UFO stuff. They were never looking to be seen. Right. This is something that was occurring that was obviously a job, like there was something going on. It drives my mind crazy because, like, what's under the water? Is that like a refueling? Like, sorry, I keep hitting the microphone, my beard, you know, like, what's going on now?

Interviewer

I think a lot of answers are under the water.

Jeremy Corbell

I do too, from all reports there. And now you remember I brought Senior Chief Wiggins public because we had a piece of footage that George and I put out. And I found out by his presence on that ship. I know everybody on that ship. I get to know people and that, you know, they'll tell me who I need to go talk with. So I found Senior Chief Wiggins through a buddy of mine in the Navy. High ranking Navy guy. And you know, he admitted to me there's nothing wrong. He admitted to me he was there, he saw the whole thing. And then he came forward and talked on weaponized. We brought him forward to Congress. He, you know, he, there is footage. He saw Tic Tacs 1 coming up out of the water. I mean, it's like there's something going on in the water, right? Yeah. So that's all I know. But here's what happened next with the Tic Tac. So when you know Commander Fravor, you know, he's like a. He's like head of the Black Aces, man. That guy answers to nobody. You know, he just does his own thing. So he sees his buddy, Commander Underwood, and he was about to go do the next flight. He's got a full tank of gas. He's a wizzo. So he. His job is to record shit, right? And he says, this is where we saw it. It went to the new cap point, which. Which baffles them, because it. If it was. And it was actively jamming their weapons or their. Their radar systems, it was.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

They don't like saying it anymore, I guess, like top brass told them, don't say it anymore is my. Is what I'm thinking, because that's a act of war. But if you look at my original interviews with them, they say it out loud. So. So there was active jamming, and that is an aggressive. That is considered in their world an act of war, an aggressive maneuver. They made that very clear. So whoever it was had a technology that was able to effectively actively jam. So then he sends out his buddy Underwood, and his call sign is Nuts, by the way. You do the math. And David Sex Fravor, by the way, is his call sign.

Interviewer

It is.

Jeremy Corbell

So, yeah, yeah, come on, these Navy guys, man, Sex, favor and Nuts, man. Okay, so. So Nuts goes out and, you know, he picks up the target right where Fravor said it would be and. Or in that vicinity. And he's just flipping through every optic system that he has because it's like collecting data to bring back to the. The intel guys. So he does all that. And why we know it as the Tic Tac is because he comes back for debrief and they go, so.

Interviewer

So what.

Jeremy Corbell

What it looked like, what's going on? They put it up on this big screen and. And he has to say something. And he. He remembered Airplane, the movie, and he remembers that dude saying, I don't know, it was like, shaped like a Tylenol, but, you know, has. It has, like, wings and, like. And he's like, I can't say that. He's a big fan of, like, old 80s. He goes, sure, it looked like a. It looked like a Tic Tac. So that's how we know it as the Tic Tac ufo.

Interviewer

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Corbell

Because he didn't want to say the airplane thing. So anyway, so. So he comes back and he does all that, and it baffles them. And this footage kind of went around in little circles for a While I'd always heard about it, but it was, you know, without soliciting. I don't know how you get it right, because none of these guys, you know, but, but, but it was. It was kind of showing up in these little groups of people. That's how it kind of got this lure, because they did at some point have a VHS tape that was going through pilot circles. Anyway, somehow mysteriously, that footage did make its way back to the Internet right in time for a coast to that. George and I had the day of a coast coast show. It was like people listening and watching and knowing that I wanted to see that footage because it appeared online and we were able to point to it. And that was way before it was a public case. You hear us on the radio kind of dancing around it. We reported on it twice before. It was part of the New York Times thing.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, so basically I said to Underwood, hey man, how do you know this isn't ours? You know, because it would be really cool in some ways. It'd be cool if a czar is really shitty. They've been covering up. Right? Right. You know, I was like, how do you know it's not ours? And he goes, I said, have you ever seen a black project accidentally? And he's like, it's happened. And I'm like, so, wow, what happens when you see that? And he goes, oh. He goes, there are strict protocols. You come in for debrief, you sign an NDA. You are not to talk about this experimental craft by this corporation or that corporate. You're not to talk about it, forget about it. So that's why he could only say to me, it's happened, you know, but there are protocols for that.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

So you're in an area where it is dangerous to be operating experimental technologies in the middle of the ocean. Right. Doesn't feel to me like a proper planned thing. Now it's actively jamming our weapon systems, which you know, is very dangerous. How it's been described to me by them. That's also not a thing.

Interviewer

I either forgot about that or didn't know that.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. I. I don't know. They kind of have stopped talking about the act of jamming. I don't know if he said it in Congress, Raver, but. But if you listen to the original reporting that, that I did on. They say it with their own mouths. Underwood talks about jamming, talks about. And fravor, you know, this circular disturbance was. There was some. Appeared to be an object under there which we would call a uso. You know. So that's another strike against that. It's something that's ours, is that there's no protocols. None of them were. Ever had to sign an NDA about this. Right. This is something that just happened.

Interviewer

Why wouldn't they have to sign an NDA?

Jeremy Corbell

Because it's not a known issue. It's not a known. They. They just went out on it. There was nothing secret about it because

Interviewer

there's been no ramifications against Braver, right?

Jeremy Corbell

No, no, no, zero. But then the nail in the coffin for me was in. In Congress. And here's what he said publicly. He says. I don't know if he said, my current employment. He has a classified job right now. Okay. His job would allow him to understand what our highest capabilities are right now and what they're going to be in the future. He has a very. He has a lot of responsibility in his new job. Commander Fraver.

Interviewer

So he's really still trusted.

Jeremy Corbell

Extremely. Oh, yeah. Fravor. It's. This is for.

Interviewer

It's a confusing story to me.

Jeremy Corbell

It is very confusing. But he didn't do any. He didn't do anything wrong.

Interviewer

No, he didn't.

Jeremy Corbell

But he didn't leak anything. He didn't go talk outside of school. His name was brought into the public like I told him it would be. Not by me, by other people.

Interviewer

But he's telling you release information of the put people in jail. And yet he's still distrusted.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, he would. Oh, no. What I told him wasn't about his story in the movie.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

I was telling him about how agencies have done what I thought at the time was super illegal things.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

Like, for example, targeting Matthew Brown with words like counterintelligence on American assets, like targeting Dylan Borlin with words like espionage. To me, odni. Saying those words to me about my friends and lying about them. I thought that was going to get them put in jail. Fuck. I was naive.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, yeah.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Super naive.

Interviewer

You were.

Jeremy Corbell

Apparently. It's okay. It's okay to do these things to people if it's our government and not other governments.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

So I've never told, and I'm not going to right now, but that there is another story to all that. I just. I was very naive. So in that, in that movie, when you see me all bent out of shape and I'm talking to Fravor, I thought if I documented everything and these crimes I thought were committed against whistleblowers, if I brought them to light internally, that people would go to jail for what they did. Boy, was I wrong. So anyway, back to the Tic Tac Fravor. He's in Congress and he goes like this. He goes, we didn't have that technology in 2004. We do not have that technology in 2024. Whatever it was when he testified, he goes, we're not even conceiving to work on that technology for 50 years. You know, he's like, he's like, it's just like it wasn't ours in 2004. It wasn't a private contract. So that, that's another kind of nail in the coffin that whatever it was was outside of our purview. So I'm there. That's where I'm at right now. But I am always open to learning new information. And having gotten it wrong, I'll be the first to raise my hand and say I got it wrong. Same they they've excluded. I mean I've met with. I'll say George and I have met with a federal agency in an official badged meeting with a number of people at the table. And it was conveyed to us that we have excluded Russia and China from being fabricators of the Tic Tac as well. And one more thing. In 2019, George Knapp and I reported on a swarming of 10 Navy warships in 2019 off the coast of California where there was multi types of footage that we obtained and released. It was thermal. So the black and white from the USS Omaha. It was the green. So you say night vision to a PVS 14 which does not have a bouquet triangle shaped lens. I have one myself. The camera itself. Then they move the goalposts and they're like the camera itself had a triangular shape lens. Nonsense. I know the people that were involved in that. That's okay. Pyramid in triangle by angle of observation. Pyramid in shape. I didn't make that up. That's in their own documentation. George and I put out a couple of slides that talk about triangle by angle of observation. Internally. They, they have more sensors than you're seeing little glimpses of.

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

So they believe there was pyramid in shape. Over that was USS Russell. Then we had deck footage which was very important. It looks like footage. So just a dude with an iPhone on a deck. So we. I was able to somehow be the receiver of many different types of footage. I got radar footage sent to me. Right. So you can see multiple targets at one. I think there's 10 at one time surrounding a ship. And I put out the radar footage that was from inside the bridge. Right. And it's not an easy thing. To obtain, especially when you're not asking for it.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay, then we've got the thermal footage where you see the egg shaped object.

Interviewer

You know, heard about that.

Jeremy Corbell

It's got no rotor wash, no nothing. No heat signatures coming off of it. They say splash. Splash. In the video, they're not saying it made a splash. They're saying that means it went under the water. I'll tell you, they did deploy a submarine to try to look for it. They did, they did. And they did not find it. Hopefully that'll be in like people like Jay Stratton's new book. I hope he talked because he ran a lot of that investigation. Yeah, he had people on the ships for UAPTF the day after it happened. I have met some of the federal agents who are on the ships. I've sidebarred them and tried to ask them individually, what was it? No, we know it wasn't China, we know it wasn't Russia. So what happens is in 100 mile radius, 2019, there's a swarm of our Navy ships and they're, they're doing workups for deployment. And all of a sudden there are these acrobatics of all these things. And I've talked to kids on the ships who were just like standing out there. I told you I had deck footage that I put out, which to me I put out last because the least visually understandable and important, but it's like inky darkness, but you see lights. Now why was that important? Because you have thermal, you have infrared, you have radar. Baboon. I have, finally I've got somebody just with an iPhone. You start asking around. People are like, I got my iPhone. That was, you know, I was out there on the deck with my iPhone. Okay, cool. So all of a sudden I received something like that. Validate where it's from using the GPS data and the time stamps. And like, basically why that's important is because these things were self luminous. So because people tried to say, you know, all this different stuff about what it was, was, it wasn't. But these things were self luminous. You could see them in that last bit of footage. So you've got four types of footage, one being radar. You've got all these witnesses that have testified or talked to me about it. And George, I mean at this point, dozens and dozens and dozens of people. This was not an isolated incident. It's just the one that somehow we obtained a ton of footage of these swarms were happening. A ton. I, you know, four or five, maybe six cases that have been reported to me about this. But why this was so important, because we could provide the public with actual physical data, proof, visual evidence of it, and it was inside these government investigations. We put out a couple slides to show their analysis of it. The. The coup de grace for me was people said that it was the Bass Straight cargo ship that was like, launching these. By the way, they're. They're about, you know, maybe 10ft like that. You can tell the profile of it. You know, they weren't small.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

So people said. And even on Wikipedia still says the Bass Straight cargo ship was a Chinese ship, you know, was launching things. Okay, well, Bass Strait was boarded the second it got into Long Beach. And by the way, the ballet was still going on when Bass Strait was in port. People forget that. And I know some of the agents that boarded the ship. They found nothing. And here's the coup de grace. I found the one sailor whose only job during that event was to watch the Bass Straight through all the visuals to make sure it wasn't launching or landing anything. And he came unweaponized by voice and told he wishes that he could report to us that we knew who was launching those, and he couldn't because they weren't coming off of the Bass Straight. But if you go to Wikipedia, I believe it still says probably. Yeah, it's total propaganda, of course. Yeah. So. Because they don't know where they were coming from. They were coming from the. They were coming from the west. There's nothing over there but Hawaii, man. What were they launching off of? Where were they landing? If they're these autonomous, where were they landing?

Interviewer

Nothing there.

Jeremy Corbell

There's nothing there. So somebody's got a pretty cool technology that can do and perform in just fun ways. And it's.

Interviewer

It's not China.

Jeremy Corbell

So many resources were spent on figuring out. So it's not China, it's not Russia, and unfortunately, it's not us. And that. That would have been comforting, but it's not us. And it's been happening more and more so more frequently. It's hard for me to say more frequently because I've told a lot of people not to call me anymore. I was like, you, cool that happened on your mission? Probably shouldn't call me about that stuff. You know, I just. I fear now that I'm on so many radars that anybody who speaks out of school is going to be penalized for. I mean, I've had people in the Navy who have nothing to do with the UFO topic, who are just my friends who've Been questioned. It's a horrible feeling.

Interviewer

I would only talk to you on Signal.

Jeremy Corbell

Even Signal is not private, man. But it's just, you know what I mean? It's like I. There have been too many false targets on people. I told you a couple of them today, like my buddy Logan and everybody suspect that surround me and George of like, you know, they really want to know how stuff gets to journalists and you know, if it's the, the end of my career, that's the one thing I, I will protect. And luckily everybody's got it wrong so far. You know, there's been a lot of. Yeah, there've been a lot of attempts to try to close that window and it had the reverse effect. Meaning when people have been shook down or they've been like threatened, like what do you know? It's just caused more people to come to me and George in person and I guess that's a positive thing.

Interviewer

It is because you're the first line of the. The fence.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

Tell the Matthew Brown story.

Jeremy Corbell

Smuggling him.

Interviewer

Smuggling him.

Jeremy Corbell

That was fun. Yeah.

Interviewer

But start, start where you made the decision.

Jeremy Corbell

Right.

Interviewer

How did we make like it's like a heist movie. Like you're in a room like, here's what we're going to do.

Jeremy Corbell

It sounds so cool.

Interviewer

You're going to do what? No, no, no, it's going to work. It's going to.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. He. We were. And we did not trust each other. Me and me and this is like the story. Like we did not trust.

Interviewer

He's like, really?

Jeremy Corbell

I was sure that some guy that wants to talk with Congress who's just using me to like make me look like an idiot and he had no. Like he was trying to figure out who he could trust. He made some slip ups at the beginning. Like trust in fake journalists. You know, journalists that are really there will hurt you. People that you can't trust with your cat's name. You know what I mean?

Interviewer

You can name them if you want.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't, I don't. I don't want to give attention to people know my sentiments. Look, at some point I'll probably have to tell that whole story and I'll do it in the right way. Right. Just basically Matthew Brown was figuring who he could trust.

Interviewer

Just, just in one or two sentences. What, what did Matthew find?

Jeremy Corbell

Very little. It was very small. And he's such a patriotic dude and he's such a thinker. But what he found was a report or what was the power? Like a briefing. Yeah, briefing on something they were calling immaculate Constellation. And because he was tasked at the time with sorting and filing and cleaning up basically a digital archive, he's like, the fuck is this? It's like talking about UFOs and it's talking about us watching the Russians have a rendezvous with a known, possibly a known, you know, manifestation of a craft oversea. Like, oh, I mean, it was just like, it's pretty wild. But there was like, you know, there was evidence inside of that briefing. And it's not something that should, from what I understand, it's not something that should have been filed where it was filed. So he kind of like reads through it all because you got to know what you're looking at. Right. And it's, it's fascinating.

Interviewer

It is. And his job is to file it.

Jeremy Corbell

It is. So he needs to know what's in it. Right. So what really kind of stood the hairs up on his arms was, you know, he's like, wait, this definitely shouldn't be in there. So it's, it's about, you know, it's about how we're watching UFOs interact with other nations and how we're have passive tracking of UFOs and active tracking. And he's like, well, this is pretty crazy. And I don't know, at that point, I think David Grush had come out. So it was on everybody's radar, right? So, you know, he's thinking, is this a. Is this a trick? Is this like a test? Like, what's going on? But he quickly learned it wasn't because he went first to his boss and then his boss's boss, and it was very nonchalant. Like, they didn't say much to him and he didn't know, like, does he have to do a. Does he have to sign anything for having seen this? And it just got really weird for him and he felt very uncomfortable because he's so patriotic and because the world was asking, Congress was asking for whistleblowers, it was asking for people, and he did not want to go public. So he sees all this UAP related stuff. But again, it's just a sliver. It was in operation. And I didn't just validate this through Matthew Brown. George and I did extensive work to figure out is this a real program before we bit. Right. And to our satisfaction, absolutely. It goes by different name now, but it was, it was called that at one time and it was like they were working on this document. It was like a working document.

Interviewer

Oh, wow.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. So it was like, very strange. So. So when Matt, you know, ended up Getting to me and George, my, my. I'm just like, dude, someone's gonna take me for a ride. Like, I like very little trust. And. And he also didn't know who to trust. I guess he had a better sense because he saw our work. But, you know, getting to through to Congress can be very hard because the process, who you have to ask to get there, can really expose people. Like, what are you doing? What are you breaking from the fold? Don't you like your life? What you. You want to stop working for the United States government? I mean, it could. Could get really messy really quick. So he had done everything that he could do, but to get to certain people, senators and Congress people. At the time, I. I had. I was working very closely to get these hearings going. So he kind of made a good bet on me that I would be able to get him in, but I was unsure how that was gonna go, too. So what happened was I said, okay, I'm going in. Meet me. On this day, I have been authorized to have a full camera crew. So you're just gonna roll with the camera crew.

Interviewer

And if he's carrying a boom or something.

Jeremy Corbell

No, no, no. He's walking with us, you know, but it was like. Cause also he's going in there with his face. It's one of the most highly, you know, monitored places by intelligence agencies as well. Because a lot of the leaks come out of Congress. You ask any human intelligence guy, and they're going to tell you or anybody in human intelligence, they're going to tell you. The biggest leaks in American history have always come out of Congress. Like, they're. You know, that's a thing for them. So they monitor this. So he's like, am I doing the right thing? I know I'm doing the right thing. How do I do the right thing? Meet this crazy bearded guy with tattoos. But he knows George, so he must be on the level, you know, And I was like, hey. But he was with me. I'm just like, let. Let's go in. I have, like, five scheduled meetings. It's all for this filming that I'm doing there. Out of all these meetings, we're going to start with somebody I very much trust, has 100% of my trust. The only guy that said my name in Congress out loud when the. That he calls them the spooks that they're. Or the suits. The two CIA guys at that weird hearing I told you about.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Said, do not say his name. They told Rep. Burchett, do not say his name. He is A security issue is what Burchett said publicly. They use different words about me. And first thing he did when he got to that microphone is he said, I want to thank my buddy, my pal, Jeremy Corbell, for bringing in documents and introducing us to whistleblowers. And somebody coughed. Comey or whatever. Comer coughed while he was saying it. They didn't want me mentioned in that hearing. Burchett did it anyway, so I really trust Burchett. Yeah, because why?

Interviewer

Just to keep your name out of the record?

Jeremy Corbell

I don't fully know, but I know

Interviewer

that because everybody knows you.

Jeremy Corbell

I know. It was so bizarre. They wanted to make it seem like people should go to Michael Shellenberger as a. If you're a witness, rather than to me. It was two and a half months of bringing documents, having them vetted, working with Congress, getting up to that point. There's a part of the story I'm not telling, which has happened. What happened the night before? It was absolutely mechanically planned. I submitted those documents the night before. I knew something was a little weird, so I actually brought those documents with me that morning. And there was. There. Thank God, there was a watermark accidentally. It was a bad printer the night before at, like, whatever hotel I was at. And it made this mark. I'm like, oh, man, it's dirty. That's no good. Thank God, because that's a forensic evidence. When they removed the top sheet and they started and they. They uploaded a blank page, you could see it was what I brought in that morning. They quickly. And I know who tore it off. I know what they said in the room, because I had eyes in the room. They were trying to make sure that I was not the trusted person for whistleblowers and that other people would be. And there's a reason that they were trying to do that. And that is the big rub. And at some point, another story, another time, why that's important.

Interviewer

I have a question about that, but I can't ask it on air.

Jeremy Corbell

Okay, well, after. Yeah, no problem. Look, it's very dangerous if we're asking whistleblowers to come in to speak with Congress. You have to understand, there are people that are very worthy of your trust, but it is a viper's pit. When I have been on the phone with the. With the staffers, they have put national security people on the call with me. They tried to get me and George into a skiff with our best evidence. I told them, I will show the world everything that I got. I want total protection. In doing so, I Will bring it in. We will show it. We will stream it in the. In the. In the hearing. And I got.

Interviewer

If you're skipped, you're locked up.

Jeremy Corbell

I think so. So that's why my lawyer said so. What happened was I was told. I said, here are the terms. George and I will come in. We know these are identified as UAP to the public. These are will come hell or high water. These are coming out. Let's do it in a professional way. And we were offered to come into a skiff before you have to show what it is that you want the public to know. And I got a call from a Congress person and they said to me, heads up, the people that are supposed to be in that meeting, we're not even going to be there. It's a trap. You. They're. They're inviting you in because whatever you bring into that meeting, you will. You will not be leaving with. It will be reverse classified, correct? Yeah. So, yeah, my lawyer shut that down instantaneously.

Interviewer

Correct.

Jeremy Corbell

But it's okay. It comes out anyway through journalism. We've released a bunch of it.

Interviewer

No, but it's. I think it's important for people listening to know the skiff is. Is not your friend.

Jeremy Corbell

No, no.

Interviewer

That DIA that got in the way there again.

Jeremy Corbell

No, DIA has. Has never gotten in the way. Actually, like, DIA has never gotten away to me on that. Oh, because of the files? Yeah.

Interviewer

In the. Who was setting up that scif? You have to name? I just. Agency.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Well, it's complicated. It's not one agency.

Interviewer

Okay, so.

Jeremy Corbell

So, so when you're in this. This Congressional setups, right, there's a bunch of interested parties that need to vet the people that will be talking. And sometimes I'm surprised with what agencies are represented in those ZOOM meetings. What agency surprised you that, you know, I think Homeland Security, maybe. They were like. It was very surprising to me. There was a. They call them National Security Advisors and stuff like that. Yeah, I think most agencies are represented. Here's something that really surprised me. I know we were going on a store and we'll get there. But what really surprised me was when I helped set up the last hearing. Okay, so you want like 14 potential whistleblowers, and you're going to cherry pick, like five of them. I said, okay, we'll play that game again. I let everybody know this is a game, and they might be just be siphoning off information, but I trust some of these people. What surprised me was the one agreement that I made with the Congressional group that I was working with is that arrow gets 0 of the information. Because I had zero trust for Arrow. They get zero of this. This is absolutely confidential. Anybody that I provide you a one sheet on that, I have them come in their suit and tie, and they sit there on camera to see none of those names get past the Arrow. Zero of them or it's not happening. Yeah, so some of these people were reached out to by Arrow, of course. Yeah. So. And, like, it's not the Congress people's fault. No, it's like they. They said to me, you know, we've got a leak. We've got a leak to Arrow. Like, it's, you know, it's not their fault. But that's how little you can trust when you start getting more and more people into the room of how they're handling it. So. But they knew. The people that I brought forward, they knew that that was a. A potential, you know, even like Senior Chief Wiggins, you know, he's a single father. He's at one year away from his retirement. I mean, there is no good reason for him to raise his head above the parapet here except for what he said. It's the right thing to do.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, and my dad would be proud of me, dude. You know, it's the right thing to do. So the problem is, is that he did get pressured after by Arrow directly. And this is public. We did a thing with him on stage. We talked. We got it, you know, bring it out into the public, put it into the light. So what happened was they threatened him that if he didn't debrief with Arrow, that they were going to get Pete Hegseth to command it. Which is like, when you're in the Navy, that would be the top of the top. That is the top of the top sec, definitely. Yes. So. So their threat, not only, by the way, to him, to his commanding officer.

Interviewer

Oh, Jesus.

Jeremy Corbell

Was that if he doesn't. And he says, I respectfully decline. I've said everything that I need to say. I told the whole story under oath in front of Congress. Done story.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

I am just doing my job now. And they. And why would they so desperately want him to come in and. And. And debrief to the point where they threaten him with the sec. Def. Is going to come, which is a. He's not gonna come.

Interviewer

No, he's not.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Yeah. And we kind. We just thought it was so crude away. Now I ask you, if he already testified to everything and he said it under oath, what could they possibly want to know? They Know the list of everybody on that ship. They can hear some of the voices in the video that George and I put out. So that was a trap. They are trying to pressure him. So no Navy guy ever will talk, you know, will come forward like that or come to Congress. That's what they were doing. So that's kind of what you get, like a, like an overt kind of threat. But some of it's more like, you know, covert. It's just trying to make you uncomfortable.

Interviewer

So the whistleblower protection is all nonsense.

Jeremy Corbell

This is what really disturbs me right now about, you know, so many guys

Interviewer

that you're just not going to do it.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, like, like what, what are the whistleblower protections? Because we have Matt Brown, we have Dylan Borland, we have David Grush. You know, they're sitting there without help. I mean, other than Dave is working, you know, in good capacity right now with Congress. But it's like, what protections do you have? These guys can't go back to their, their normal jobs. They, they, they have to find a way to make a living. Every group that said they were going to help them, didn't. I see the people standing up these funds for whistleblowers. How about helping the whistleblowers that already need help right now, who have already come forward? It's like a charade, dude. I'm sorry, I'm going to get a lot of heat for this. But what is this scientific advisory panel? Do you know who runs that? Is odni? The same ODNI who ran that nine month thing that I regretfully, you know, brought whistleblowers into open eyes, but regretfully now. So what does ODNI need this panel for? If they want the answers, they can go get the answers. First call I get from people on this panel is, what secret stuff do you and George have that we could ask them questions about? Isn't that completely reverse? Like give them data, let them analyze it for public good?

Interviewer

Right. What do you need us for?

Jeremy Corbell

I, I don't, I don't, I don't get it. I haven't really talked with everybody involved. I'd love to hear from each of them why they're participating in this panel, what they hope to achieve. If they can't look at classified information, what are they going to be given?

Interviewer

That panel should have oversight of the Intelligence Committee.

Jeremy Corbell

No, I, I don't know. Because none of them have clearances for that. So ODNI has oversight over everybody. ODNI is running the panel, the scientific advisory board. So what are they.

Interviewer

But Congress has no oversight over that.

Jeremy Corbell

I, I don't know. I hope they do.

Interviewer

Who do they report to?

Jeremy Corbell

Odni. What does the ODNI need?

Interviewer

What do they need?

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know. So, so I'm, I'm highly, I, I know people are gonna be so mad at me about this.

Interviewer

Why?

Jeremy Corbell

Because I'm, I'm highly. Because I have a lot of friends are on that panel. But it's like, what? Okay, looks good. You're like doing a scientific panel, you know, but like what does ODNI need? You don't think they have scientists? What does ODNI need of you? They need a public facing thing.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

ODNI is using you.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

In order to message something. Now positive look on this, positive look is okay. Maybe they want to disclose some stuff and you guys look through the evidence and come up with the conclusion yourself. And oh golly gee, like that's a positive thing. I don't believe for one that's not going to happen. No. ODNA is not looking to get, I think they're doing a data collection just like they did for those nine months that they get all these scientists, these people on board and they say what can you bring us to analyze? And then it's, it's a collection thing.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

In my opinion. Now I'd love to be wrong and I'm not demeaning what they're doing. Some of my friends are on this panel. Then do good work, but find out what you're going to be analyzing.

Interviewer

Did you advise them don't accept the position?

Jeremy Corbell

I don't advise nobody on nothing but myself, man. Like I, you know, I don't see 360. Maybe they know a lot more than I do, but it seems haphazardly put together.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

And what is the point if ODNI is running it? What do they need you for? Are they already said they can't give anything classified, so what do they need you to analyze now? I'd love to find out. Like, let's let this play out. Just like the government releases. Let's let it play out a little bit.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

Let's see what they talk about. But again, if they don't talk about biologics and they don't talk about reverse engineering, there you have David Grush standing up there saying I am directly aware of biologics, dude, non human bodies, bro. Right. And reverse engineering. Okay, so that's going to be a problem if America doesn't come clean on it. I hope it's A problem.

Interviewer

Did David ever give you the names?

Jeremy Corbell

Names of what?

Interviewer

Of who he heard from.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, David.

Interviewer

I don't want to get him in trouble.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, David. David has always done.

Interviewer

We need that guy. Yeah, we need that guy.

Jeremy Corbell

I. I found out some of the names. Not by David. Okay. That was, like, a leak to me from odni, which is really weird.

Interviewer

Really?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, bro. I was on the receiving end of a whole bunch of that I never should have heard.

Interviewer

I don't even know how you can trust that, but. Okay.

Jeremy Corbell

Other than it's. It's not just them telling me. It's like, how do I dance here? ODNI told me. And I'm saying ODNI because there was, like, good people in there and people that I'm not sure about, but in general, I. I heard about stuff, specifics that I never should have heard about. So, for example, I went on stage in Oregon with Dylan because. Let's get out in front of this again. Now, ODNI told me about a program name called Rubik's Cube.

Interviewer

What?

Jeremy Corbell

Dylan never told me about that, but they were telling me that that was something that Dylan knew about. I asked him on stage, and if he didn't know about it, Dylan be like, I don't know about it. Ask him on stage. And he's like, I would love to be able to tell you what I know about that in full, but right now, I don't know what the law is or that I'm restricted. It was an obvious yes.

Interviewer

Wow.

Jeremy Corbell

They told me that he drew. So he drew something for me and George in Vegas. That was really what he saw. It was like this triangle craft that he. He saw. He never drew for us a pyramid power source with some sort of symbol on it that was told to me by odni.

Interviewer

A symbol?

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, man.

Interviewer

Wow.

Jeremy Corbell

So I asked Dylan, hey, man, they're telling me a bunch of wild shit. Did you ever draw these drawings? And again, it was like stonewall. Like, you know, Dylan has to be by the book, man. Yeah, he has to be. They all do, because we don't. I don't know what's sensitive or not, but you could tell by his answers publicly. And I asked him. I said, I'm gonna ask you some hard questions. Is that okay? Just if you can't answer, can't answer. But I wanted to know. So what I'm saying is there was an inappropriate relationship where I was being told things to try to diminish or demean these whistleblowers, all of which I come to Find out. First of all, some of them weren't true about things. Like they said Matt Brown had made up the immaculate constellation stuff and that he had admitted that in odni. And I go back, I was like, did you get it all recorded? He was furious. They said that he was racist and all this stuff. They were trying to get me and George to do their dirty work, to turn on David Grush, Lou Elizondo, Matthew Brown, Dylan Borland, even Hal Put off Jay Stratton. They brought everybody's name up to us. And now I get it. Now I get it. Which is that they were trying to. My best assessment, they were trying to get us to go out and do the dirty work for them and say that all these people are out for themselves and they're all liars or they're lunatics. And it didn't work because what am I gonna do? Of course I'm gonna call these guys and say, dude, I just heard the craziest. When I told Matt Brown that they said that he was like a Jew hating racist. That's what they said. Right. When I told him that he was at his buddy's wedding, who's Jewish, right. They didn't know he was also part Jewish. It was so ridiculous to me that the way they tried to manipulate. And this is what I thought with Fravor in that in the movie, this is what I thought would get some of these guys in trouble, was that they were manipulating journalists, telling them lies, which apparently is legal, and saying horrible things and some of it's criminal sounding things against some of the whistleblowers. I didn't know that was legal in America, but apparently it is for national security.

Interviewer

Sure, right.

Jeremy Corbell

Everything falls under that. So I know we got way off track yet you had said something.

Interviewer

Okay. We were talking about Matt Brown getting smuggled in.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, smuggled in. Yeah, you got to get. Good memory there. Well, just to finish that story. That was pretty funny. So we don't trust each other yet. And all this stuff where we're just like, who the heck's this guy? And I said, look, I'm going to get you in front of three that I really trust. We'll start with, you know, somebody I've known the longest. There. There was actually like five meetings, but there's like these three. I want you to, you know, present your 60 seconds of what you got to say now. He didn't want to testify. This was just getting the information to the people that were asking, asking for it. They were literally asking whistleblowers to come forward. Right. So how do you physically get a meeting and get in there without raising a billion alarm bells?

Interviewer

Sure.

Jeremy Corbell

So he's walking with the camera crew. We do the sit down filming in the first place. And I said, hey, so I've got a whole crew with me, but one of these people is actually a whistleblower. And the thing is, it would just be you, me and this person. If everybody else leaves, are you comfortable with that? I think you want to hear what this person has to say. You know, three minutes, something like that. First one, absolutely no, no hesitation. Clear the room. One guy came back in, that was Matthew Brown. Sat down, said, this is what I know to be true. This is what happened to me. And I've tried to put it through all of the proper channels. I'm not looking to testify. But you asked for people to come forward, so I'm now giving you my report. That, that was his report. And he gave it. And then I said, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna go into another office. You know, what's my trust level? Said to my friend, what's my trust level? They're like, it's good to talk, but don't give him a document. Right. One. In the next same situation, sat down, everybody left, comes back in. We do that three times. Another person we gave documents to just to make sure they were circulating. And so that really built trust because I did get him in, they did take him seriously, and they did offer to always be there if anything awry happens. But again, we were far away from it being mentioned in Congress at that point. I had to go through with them and the documents and validate what Matthew Brown had said. And I'm, I was able to do that, you know, to validate that not only was he in the position that he said he was in, but also that the content of what he was reporting on was an actual program.

Interviewer

And you were able.

Jeremy Corbell

I was able to do that. So was George. Right. Because they know you're onto it at that point. There's some people that'll let you in that much. Yeah, him. So that's the Matthew Brown smuggling him in. And you know, then I've, you know, we've really, I've tried to. George and I've tried to make sure that he has a certain layer of protections. Because if you want to believe it or not, I mean, he's gone public with it, like during this time.

Interviewer

I believe him.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, he, he had a break in, in his house while he was asleep with his wife. And all they did was spread out his wife's IDs, like to take a photo of them, smash his grandfather's ashes.

Interviewer

You're kidding.

Jeremy Corbell

Nope. So that would be a covert harassment though. We don't know who did it.

Interviewer

We know who did it.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, I. I don't know specifically.

Interviewer

No. Right.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Or what agencies would be involved, but clearly they wanted to send a message, don't go forward with this, you know. And he went forward. He thought it was important. Yeah. So I trust him. I know he's telling me the truth to the best of his. He doesn't have a big picture on all this, but he's got part of

Interviewer

it from the jump. I always felt like he was telling the truth.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah.

Interviewer

He always seems like he's just trying to do the right thing. Like he reported it right away.

Jeremy Corbell

He did.

Interviewer

And, and his supervisor said, don't worry about it.

Jeremy Corbell

Dylan Borland, man, he went into icig, right? This is guy like I know him very well now. He went in and did an official whistleblower. ICIG did drawings for them of everything that he was exposed to, which I now know because of the. What was said to me by odni. I now know part of it was a pyramid shaped, I guess a power source with a symbol, symbols on it or something like that. As he drew that for odni. So if he, if he's out here, like a ruse, would you go into the police of the intelligence community?

Interviewer

Hell no.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. This is not a career enhancing.

Interviewer

No.

Jeremy Corbell

And he'd worked a long time high roles of responsibility. Dylan did. And, and he thought this was really important. And he's had also these types of reprisals, these things that have been done to him.

Interviewer

Just little messages.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, man. Some of it's gnarly. You can never prove it. Part. Part of the thing is, you know, maybe they want you to look like paranoid or unhinged. But, you know, I know a lot of these guys and they've all had issues that are not normal issues. But the biggest one was ODNI tried to say to me that he drew something that he didn't draw. It was actually classified like a sensor system is what it was said to me. And they used a word with me espionage about him. And they were fishing to see if he ever drew me and George anything that he shouldn't. I was like, lucky for me, no, he didn't. But now I know what, what you're saying. And I went back, I went straight to Dylan and I was like, does any of this Ring a bell? And that he didn't. He didn't not answer me. Like, the other things on that one, he goes, total. He goes, I wouldn't even know how to draw that. And he got so mad about it, too, because think about it. So you got an ODNI guy saying to me, this is what he said in the skiff. The. This guy's supposed to tell me what. What Dylan Borland said in a skiff. Right. And then I get told that he drew some sensor system. And I went to him and I said, this is. I want you to know, this is what they're saying about you. So they're writing a report. He got furious. And I have the text messages he sent to the ODNI group because I want to know what you're writing in that. Because if I. If I did that. Show me the video.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

Like, where's the video of me? Because. Because otherwise they could plan this whole thing against him and fabricate evidence, which is what I think they were trying to do. And just to shut him up. Yeah, of course. So. So we made a big stink about it, me, Dylan, and some other people. And they never let him back in to show him where he allegedly did this. Everything that he drew in the ICIG before the odn. I think it was all filmed, man. So show us a journalist and George, show us all the evidence of where he drew this highly classified thing for ICIG that he mistook his alien technology. It was so weird, dude. What I saw was our government trying to fabricate, I believe, fabricate, evidence against a whistleblower to put him in Leavenworth

Interviewer

for 25 years or to just create

Jeremy Corbell

a stress situation where he was paralyzed to move. I don't know. They would have followed if they had followed through with that, then all the evidence comes out. Right. So I think it was more like a threat squeeze.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

So I'll just tell you. I went to the. In the movie, you see me say, you know, people go to jail for this.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

I went to the highest levels that I could and talked with my federal lawyer and my family about this, saying, this is the evidence that I have of our intelligence agencies trying to set up whistleblowers. And I was sure that I was going to get a certain type of response. And I will tell you that I did not get the response. I kind of got the response. Well, it wasn't the Russians or Chinese. Right. I kind of got the response that if it's us doing these shenanigans, then it's okay. And that was disheartening.

Interviewer

Yeah, it is.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Weird stuff, bro. I just interested in the UFOs.

Interviewer

Right.

Jeremy Corbell

I'm just trying to.

Interviewer

UFOs. And now you got cameras everywhere. Are they harassing you? Are you seeing the same agents?

Jeremy Corbell

I'm not seeing him, like, dating them. No, I mean, the.

Interviewer

Like, the same people show up. I'm wondering if there's. If there's a unit put together.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. The Watchers, we call them. My friends and I, as a joke, you know, the. All. The odd thing for me was all the hearings. In the hearings, I had some guy come up and whisper in my ear, you think you're gonna make it to the steps? Yep. That's why I had my buddy Dan Cleary walk with me that other time, because it was just, like, a weird thing. And, you know, you can't put your finger out, like, who is that? Well, that same dude, I watched and I looked at some of the footage in another hearing, and I saw him there, a suit, you know, so I. I did. I have seen a couple times the same dudes, because I had a whole camera crew, so they, you know, I went through some of the footage, but I don't know that it's that simple. I don't know that it's like, just a. I. I don't know, you know, who's ultimately wanting certain things to be known and other things not. Like, clearly, they want you to know that UFOs are real. That has been. That is a clear message. They want you to know that.

Interviewer

Yep.

Jeremy Corbell

But I. I also know that specifically, the CIA has been shaping the emerging UAP narrative in their own words for many years. I'll tell you how I know that. I was exposed to what I believe to be correct information in document form of an analysis done by CIA on the Tic Tac incident.

Interviewer

Okay. And back then, or recent announcement.

Jeremy Corbell

This is years ago, so.

Interviewer

See, I was on it years ago.

Jeremy Corbell

Well, I don't know. I know that what I was exposed to was. Was a few years ago, but what they were trying to claim in that was that Fravor misidentified his instrument systems, which. Which negates the entire thing of it being filmed by Underwood, all the other witnesses. It was just like this low level, trying to push through the intelligence agencies a dismissal, which I never really thought about, but they do that a bunch. So, like, when people come forward and they. They talk publicly about uap, there will be internal classified memos that say, none of these people can be trusted again. Arrow did that. Arrow did it? This whole yearly report. And at the end there was this paragraph and this is like multi sourced. A bunch of people that actually have access to these service who've read the classified versions were like, oh, that last paragraph. I'm like, what last paragraph? And I finally learned is that ERA said, well, you know, nice that here's our report. And none of these people that have come forward could ever be trusted again because they broke the cardinal rule. So they're trying to tell the rest of the intelligence community, you know, if you speak outside of school, because those are the people with access to stuff, yeah, you won't be trusted again. So with the CIA, I know that they had put some reports into circulation, including the Lockheed Martin narrative. And that's why I wanted to.

Interviewer

I'll tell you, that's interesting.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And they've actually come to Fravor and he immediately saw the nonsense. And I said, look, check out this email because I, I had received another email where they're trying to use, you know, individuals to propagate that mythology. And I know where it comes from because I saw that in some documentation that I believe to be correct, actually informed a federal agent in the doj, a friend of mine, hey, if you have access, here's a document you should look for. Don't. I'm not asking you for anything.

Interviewer

You're not soliciting.

Jeremy Corbell

You're in.

Interviewer

All right.

Jeremy Corbell

You know, and so I have found that the CIA absolutely has hands on this topic a lot more than others, probably because of their shell companies and how they can help hide stuff. I know that they have stood up a media platform. I saw it coming from miles away. George and I have, you know, kind of talked about it. But if you have a media platform that jumped into the UFO thing and then they do, not just UFOs, but a bunch of science and technology news.

Interviewer

You want to name them?

Jeremy Corbell

I don't. I would rather people think for themselves. Right. At this point. But you know, if you've got somebody who's like, I don't know, living in another country, like Germany or something, and they run like a, you know, media, online media thing, and if you look at the history of that media thing and when it popped up and how it popped up, and some really good writers for it, by the way, not, it's not all UFO and there's some really great writers for it, but that is a way to shape the emerging UAP narrative. So if, if that dude has ties to the CIA and maybe other family members of his, if they have Ties to CIA. You'd imagine that's a great way to shape the narrative is have a trusted publication that's online, can be operated from out of the country, but you get local writers who are into this topic and good faith individuals. But you can always see the story and, and that's happened a bunch.

Interviewer

This is the same game plan they've been running since the 70s. It's the same story.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, I guess with the, with, with

Interviewer

Dodie and Bill Moore and all that.

Jeremy Corbell

Right, right. And creating outlets that you can shape stories.

Interviewer

Yes.

Jeremy Corbell

I mean, yeah, it makes sense to me.

Interviewer

Of course.

Jeremy Corbell

Social media is the, the battleground right now. Yep. I mean, because you can, you can get like, you know, 50 people, would like 19 followers, 40 followers. You can make some disparaging comment over and over and then upvote and they upvote. I know. That's why I don't use social media anymore because it's so artificial. Or mine is artificial now.

Interviewer

So is mine.

Jeremy Corbell

Is it? Oh yeah, yeah.

Interviewer

Oh yeah. My own Reddit, it's amazing. My own Reddit that I own just, just blast me constantly.

Jeremy Corbell

They get like, you know, they can get a whole bunch of people, maybe same person, different accounts, but they can create a narrative, push it through everything and then upvote those comments or something. Michael was telling me about what he was, he did an analysis.

Interviewer

The top comment on my Reddit writes this week is that I'm an asset.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. Mine's. I'm an asshole. So they might, they might be right. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. There's. It's hard to fight against. Right. Like information is the battlefield.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And social media is, we spend so much time on it. So that's why it doesn't hurt me when I read these things where people, you know, say I'm, you know, holding this back or doing this. No, dude, I'm doing my best job. I'm trying to make sure that, that people that come to me, that they have a safe haven to come to me and that we do our best reporting possible, me and George. And if you look online, you know, you'll, you'll see that that is a great way to influence public opinion with very little effort. And I hope people are smart, they think for themselves.

Interviewer

Well, George is in his 70s. Who's going to carry the baton once you're gone?

Jeremy Corbell

Michael, My buddy Michael. I don't know.

Interviewer

I mean, someone.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, it's got to step up. Everybody. Here's what I'm encouraged about. We have so many great new Voices in the UFO field. Right. And a lot of people fighting now where before 40 years ago, George is the only journalist that touches the ten foot pole. But I, I do see that Congress is asking for more whistleblowers. I see David Grush making very profound statements about biologics and reverse engineering. And I do trust David Grush. I do trust him. I've known him for a long time. If David Grush was some asset, knowingly some asset, I'm not naive on that.

Interviewer

I'm not there yet with him. But I trust you.

Jeremy Corbell

Right. So you know that to my best assessment right now, I have known that guy for many years.

Interviewer

You vetted him for a full year?

Jeremy Corbell

Yes, yes. Oh, dude. Like, yeah. So there's a lot, you know, to unpack with that. But sure. Basically I don't see a cabal of people all pushing forward into the media, a coherent cohesive agenda. There are people, they are being harmed for trying to do this. It doesn't mean that both aren't happening at the same time. I, I will relent to that. It's, it's possible four dimensional chess. And I just, I'm not a chess player, you know what I mean? Meeting the checkers, as they say. I'm just like, you know, I'm doing my best here, but I, I hope that's not the case or if it is the case, at least we're getting the right information. But what I am encouraged about is that there are so many new voices, people that are doing really great work now. Some of them for sure are assets and it is gross. And I've actually made a public statement that people should, for the right thing, stand the down on what they're doing. But the majority of people are just curious like you and me, and they're young and they're hungry and I think the, I think the future is bright for the UAP thing if we don't get caught up in the nonsense. And I think we're. Our zone is flooded right now. Like, I don't know what you think about the whole psionics thing, but like dude, that reeked of a government operation from day one.

Interviewer

PSYOP from day one. Agree? 100 yes. 100 yes.

Jeremy Corbell

So that was really weird to watch. George and I just sat back. You noticed we never had anybody on. I've talked to all of them. I know a lot of those guys I just like from day one. What is the angle on that? Why would they. Do you know what that, what would be the purpose of that?

Interviewer

It just Muddy the waters, right? Is that's it? It's just get us looking over here. That's really all there is to it, I think. Same with the Age of Disclosure. There's. There's a lot of bullshit in there. There's people in there that can't be trusted, but there's also people in there that can be.

Jeremy Corbell

I know, right? That's the rub, right?

Interviewer

Why is James Clapper in there and not in prison? I don't know.

Jeremy Corbell

Why would he be in prison? I don't know a lot about politics

Interviewer

for lying to Congress that NSA was spying on Americans.

Jeremy Corbell

Oh, he did, right?

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

Those guys. Look, I learned that lesson. I was so sure that what was being done was illegal to wizard, and apparently it's not. So I just, you know, we had to let it go.

Interviewer

I talked to a couple of very big, well known podcasters and we would. We talk in different ways. Like if you call certain people's cell phone, it takes a long time to connect. It's very clicky on the line. Oh yeah. It's like we, we got to go secure comms. We can't use our phones.

Jeremy Corbell

It's been, it's been proven to me before that I can be listened to. It was like a flex that was done to me by an agency.

Interviewer

I believe it.

Jeremy Corbell

No, I'm telling you as fact that that's been proven to me. And then it was directly told to my mom by an agent.

Interviewer

Wow.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah. And so, I mean, it's so egregiously

Interviewer

illegal, but Patriot act actually makes it.

Jeremy Corbell

I don't know.

Interviewer

Because it's national security and Patriot Act.

Jeremy Corbell

All I know is that every time I get on the phone with my lawyer, he goes, this is Chuck McCullough and this is a privileged conversation. So why would you have to say that if you didn't think, you know, that there's a chance? But yeah, it's been shown to me on that.

Interviewer

Yeah.

Jeremy Corbell

And it's a huge. It's not a good way to live. And I'm kind of like rethinking right now my life a lot. About what. How can I be most effective? And if I'm constantly living in the state where I have to be so careful about having conversations, like maybe, maybe adjustments need to be made for me personally, you know, to. To be more effective in my reporting. I don't know yet. I don't know.

Interviewer

I just need you to be safe.

Jeremy Corbell

I. I feel safe, man. Michael made my life look like a horror movie. His sleeping dog. Great movie. Is fucking frightening. And I break down twice.

Interviewer

It was a great movie. Is there anything that we didn't get to that you want to get to?

Jeremy Corbell

No, man. I've never had such a kind of fun, different kind of conversation. It was really. Thanks for the opportunity to talk with you and your audience, dude.

Interviewer

You're a legend. Thank you for coming in.

Jeremy Corbell

Thanks, man.

Interviewer

Weaponized podcast. Awesome Sleeping Dogs. What else?

Jeremy Corbell

Well, yes, Sleeping Dog is the movie right now. Michael would want me to say it's on Amazon and Apple, and you should watch it.

Interviewer

You should.

Jeremy Corbell

Worst, worst time of my life. Great entertainment for you, but I'm out of the woods. I'll just say that.

Interviewer

How many beers do you drink in that movie? Wow. I know.

Jeremy Corbell

I like, you know, but I made a point, right? I didn't want to hide anything. Like, you know, I. I sip a few beers a day.

Interviewer

I told him, I said, we got to get some cores in here.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, my friend could. Christina did that for her podcast is the greatest ever. She brought this, like. But no, just that, man. Just, you know, weaponized the movie Sleeping Dog. You know, I did make the movie Patient 17, Hunt for the Skinwalker, and Bob's Our Era 51 and Flying Saucers. All three of those you just watch for free on YouTube Movies now, which is pretty cool. But I think the main thing is just with people is, you know, pay attention to what's happening right now. Now, we've never had so much movement, and I don't know that all of it is good or. And some of it might be a psyop. I'm. I am ignorant to some of that stuff, but I. I do believe that we are in an unprecedented time where we are so close to getting some sort of admission, and then we're going to have to assess that, and maybe this scientific panel and group, maybe we'll do great things. I don't want to prejudge it, but I've just. I've seen this movie before. I've had this rodeo. If it's being run by odni, unfortunately, they got zero trust for me. Now, there's some good people in ODNI that I know, but what's going on with Congress feels like a manipulation with odni and I. I hope to be wrong, but, yeah, in one year from now, maybe we'll know a lot more than we do today, and then we'll come back and talk again.

Interviewer

Jeremy Gorebell.

Jeremy Corbell

Thanks, brother.

Interviewer

Bye, everybody. That was Jeremy Corbell handed our talk with a bet that a year from now, we'll Know a lot more than we do. I can't check a prediction. Everything else I could start with the footage. The pyramid over the USS Russell, the sphere off San Diego. Jeremy released those, and in 2021, the Pentagon confirmed they were taken by the Navy and folded into the government's UAP investigations. The Pentagon backing a self described weirdo with a beard and tattoo. I love every part of that storm. Area 51 checks out too. A college kid watched Jeremy and Bob Lazar and Rogan made a Facebook joke and 2 million people rsbped to raid a military base. I love every part of that too, but I don't recommend it. Now the big one, James Lekatsky ran the Pentagon's covert UFO program, and he wrote in a book with George Knapp that America holds a craft of unknown origin and that we got inside it. The government's own publication review cleared every word. That doesn't prove a craft. But nobody's walked it back, and we keep waiting. The entrapment invitations, the whisper campaigns, the safety protocols for his family? I can't verify. He says it's recorded. Sitting with his lawyer. We have to take his word for it. Everything I could check, checked. But the scene that stuck with me is the tennis court. Jeremy filmed John Lear for almost a decade. Near the end, Lear believed the man he called Sleeper had come to Earth Earth on a craft and could write him a ticket off the prison planet. Jeremy flew him in, wheeled him onto the overgrown court, and filmed Lear crying, asking if his ticket was still good. Jeremy calls it UFO disease. No answers. So you fill the hole with whatever hurts. Least he won't fill his. So is the biggest story in human history being suppressed? I can't tell you and neither can Jeremy. That's what I like most about him. He fixes toilets in his own buildings so nobody can buy his Republic reporting. And he spent 15 years saying, I don't know where certainty pays better. That's the guy I want. Cold in the Flashlight. Jeremy and George Knapp's podcast is weaponized. The documentary is Sleeping Dog. That's Dog Singular on Amazon and Apple, and his films are free on YouTube movies. His site is extraordinarybeliefs.com and everything I mentioned is linked below. If his grandma's story got to you, check out my Battle of Los Angeles episode. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.

Jeremy Corbell

I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music. So I'm singing like I should. But then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth, my friends, and it never ends. No, it never ends. I feel the crap cat. I got stuck inside Mel's home with MK Ultra of being only 2 aware. Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set? Or were the shadow people there? The Roswell alias gets far the smiling man I'm told and his name was cold. I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish on Thursday nights. Wednesday J2 and. Good night. The M Man sightings and the solar storm still come to Agatha. The secret city of underground mysterious number stations planet circle to project Stargate and what the dark watchers found. The Black knight satellite to me so I can't believe I'm dancing with the.

Interviewer

Dance.

Jeremy Corbell

Yeah, K love to dance on the dance floor. Because she is a camel and camels love to dance. When the feeling is right. Always in time.