A

Welcome to season four of trap talk

B

brought to you by craig off the choice of champions.

A

You know, Rick, when you're riding around your air conditioning and your nice can am and I'm walking, I'm thinking to myself where do I get one of these things?

B

At big red motorsports, that's where you get one. George or Jason Lee, they'll take care of you, Zach.

A

I mean I need one. I'm tired of riding on the back of that cooler. I want to sit inside that cab and roll around in style. I mean my face is on the back but help me out.

B

Listen, I'm going to move your face to the bumper is where it's going to get moved for the new one, okay? All you need is a little quiche and, and we can take care of you. But listen, Big RedMotorsports.com thanks Jason and George lee and big red motorsports for all the support. They'll take care of you folks. And it's free delivery.

A

Hello, trap talk listeners. I'm your host Zach denini. I'm here with my co host Richard Marshall Jr. And I'm also here with my good longtime friend and competitor Mr. Tony Fortino. Welcome to the show everyone.

C

Thanks for having me.

B

What's up?

A

Well, well, Tony, you look good. I like the steel hat. I like the shirt. Tony is the working man of trap shooting. He gets it done and he's, he's coming back like a house of fire. Today we're going to talk a little bit about Tony's story. But before we get to that, Ricky, introduce the man. If, if people don't know Tony, they need to know Tony.

B

So everybody knows, everybody knows him as Anthony when he was a little kid. But Tony's been shooting since 2007 and he's, he's got a lot of accolades especially for the working man now because he just got off work. You can see it in his eyes a little bit. He's. He works the third shift, so nice.

C

15 hours.

B

Yeah. He's from kakee, Illinois, outside Chicago. What are you about 45 minutes outside Chicago?

C

City center's about an hour. Yeah.

B

Okay. So about an hour there. But Tony is a nine time Illinois state team member, current captain of the Illinois state team. He's an eight time all american, four times on the sub junior, one of those being captain, three time junior captain and then he made the junior gold second team one year. So three state championships, a singles, two overalls. He's got multiple satellite grand wins with Most recently the 2025 Dixie Grand Hoa. He's got 14 two hundreds in singles. He's got 20 plus hundreds in doubles. He's got one 100 handicap. That's all that matters. He's got his Grand Slam, so that's awesome. But he is the youngest to ever win two grand championships in one year at 17 years old in 2013, he won the clay target and he won the doubles championship that year.

A

So he originated the twofers.

B

Yes. So welcome to the show.

A

Well, Tony, it's great to have you. We've been talking about having you on for a long time. I've been pestering you. I know you've been a loyal watcher of our show and, and critiquer. So I appreciate, I appreciate the love on the side with. Hey, hey, what are you gonna do this? What are you gonna do that? I love it. For the people that don't know, I mean, it's hard to. To tell that Tony, with his name, Florida Fortino, was an Italian guy. I'm Italian also, with my Nini name. And so we give each other a hard time numbered. Right now we've got, for the first time ever, we've got Ricky outnumbered. I'm, I'm looking forward to it. But. But we speak a. A different language, old paisan. So we talk to each other a little differently. And, and if you, if you really, really mess with a guy, that means you like him. So that's, that's, that's what me and Tony have been doing our, our whole relationship. So. So, Tony, let's circle back to when you started. How did you get into this wonderful sport that you're obviously addicted to, and how did you claim success so quickly?

C

Well, there's a little trap club in a town called Ashcombe, just to the south of us. And they had an ad in the paper. It was actually their last shoot there, but they used to let the kids go out and shoot around after they shot the games, went out and shot. And I thought I really liked it. And then a couple months after that, Jack Miller, who's to this day still my coach, I guess, ran an ad in the paper for the Chip and Crack team. So we started doing that a little bit and decided I had a little bit of a knack for it. So dad went out and got me a new Beretta and started shooting that better and better and better. And, you know, with help from people like Jackie Snellenberger and Jack Miller still, and of course, George Snellenberger, rest in peace. I learned to learn oodles from George, whether I wanted to or not at times, but wealth of knowledge there and, and I would say probably about 2011 time I really started to come into my own and you know, kind of, kind of shape my own methods. But that's how it started.

B

Well, you, you've shot, Tony, looking at your, your ATA records, you shot about 152,350 targets registered targets, not including practice and stuff. So you know, when you started, did, did you have aspirations of hey I want to make the all American team or any of that? I know I met you through our good friend Joel G. And Tom Strabby at the Indiana State shoot the one year.

C

Yep. And you know, so yeah, I say that I was on the trip in crack team and really only did that for about a year and I think I broke like a 95 in singles somewhere when it was kind of a jump out of my shoes type moment. And Jack mentioned, you know, I think you should probably consider if he progresses doing the All American team to my dad. Well, that's when I met Joel and Bruce DeLuca. I don't know if you remember him or not.

B

Oh yeah, I remember Bruce. Him and his wife.

C

Bruce took me all around the country there the folks first year I made the all American team. And then after I got on, I think the goal was to make the second team and I made the first team and after that it was, you

B

know, you were hooked.

C

You got me poor dad's checkbook.

A

You were fleecing him.

C

After, after I was hooked. X line would shoot Tuesday, Friday and every other Sunday. Tuesday night I'd go out, shoot a case of shells. Friday night I'd probably shoot a hundred and then we'd shoot games till 10 o' clock at night. But my poor, my dad worked a lot, kind of like I do and my poor mother out at the trap range. Thanks, Paula. Out at the trap range till 10 o' clock at night on Friday nights, like she didn't have anything better to do.

B

You know, she would take care of her boy.

C

That's right. Always has.

B

Well, and that.

A

And that's wonderful.

B

You, you were doing that stuff and it got you hooked, you know. And, and I remember like I said at Indiana State shoot there at Fortville, you know, you were. And you were one of those kids watching everybody shoot.

C

Oh yeah, I think I remember he had to tell me to get. Get away from me till the end, please.

B

So I'll never forget that. I am shooting first 100 and I break the first 25. Tony comes up, hey, how you doing? And I was like, did you get 25? Yeah, I got 25. So this went on the whole hundred. And I was like, yeah, you know, so. And it was the second hundred. I think it was the first trap. He came back up and he's like, hey. And I was like. And I remember, I think it was Tank that he's like, you got to say something. That kid's going to do that to everybody his whole life. So I said, hey, hey, Tony. I said, why don't you wait till we're done shooting and then come up and ask like that. And I don't remember. I think you went back and told your dad, but the story got switched up. And Bruce came up to me, I think it was, it's like, why are you giving this kid a hard time? And I was like, I wasn't giving him a hard time. No, I just said. And then it was like, oh, that's what happened. Or whatever. It was so long ago, you know, but it was. And it's one of those. But it was good that you were watching and interacting. It was just, I always say wait to ask how they're shooting because you might get someone, you know, not as nice as me when I'm shooting like that and go, oh no, hey, you little. You need, you know. So I tell all the kids now to go up and ask Zach that all the time.

A

You know, it doesn't bother me one bit. No, I'm like, hey, how you doing? I turn it back on them. I said, how'd you shoot?

B

Yeah, well. And it's one of those that. But it was a funny deal. And. And after that I had. Because someone had said, well, this little kid can shoot. And I Tony. Yeah, well. And then boom, just a few years later here he's out there winning the, the clay target and then the next night winning the doubles and everybody's like

A

kept bling, baby, bling. What the hell.

B

Yeah. Hey, Tony, you do have one, you

A

know, he's got two. He's got two.

B

You don't wear them. He's a work.

A

He.

B

He's in this. So Tony, what are you doing right now? What do you do for a living?

C

So my title is a maintenance technician. So.

B

Okay.

C

But we're multi craft. My specialty thing is power plants and like boiler rooms, power generation, your baseload power, power plant kind of thing. And now I'm getting to do it all. Or I have been for the last two years. So I get to calibrate and fix production equipment and do all kinds of things. But it's a union shop and they. Luckily this place, as opposed to the last place, gives me a lot more time off to shoot and, you know, it's a little bit smaller of a company. So every time I go back, you know, the bosses and everybody, my co workers are always, you know, well, how'd you do? How'd you do? And that, that kind of deal. So rather supportive of it as opposed to the last one.

A

Yeah, yeah. That's great that you have a supportive, you know, job that, that says, hey, actually how you're doing and they like it. And I'm sure some of those guys, I mean, with you talking about it, I mean, they might not. Might even want to try it out someday or come out and, you know, shoot practice or whatever. That's.

B

That's really cool that, that is cool that you do have now. Is it a family owned business then?

C

Oh, no, it's. There's, there's about 70 people that work there. But we're actually. It's called EMD millipore.

B

Yeah. Okay.

C

But we are, we are owned by Merck. So it's.

B

Yeah.

A

Big company.

B

But your local place is all supportive of what you're doing and that's cool that, you know, for everybody out there, that's, that means a lot, you know, when, when you're working and you got a company that's behind you that understands your passion of your hobby, you know, which, you know, you know. So that, that is an awesome thing.

A

So. So I want to circle back. There's two things that you brought up that I want to touch on. Let's, let's go back to chip and crack. So with the Chip and Crack team, you, you said that you seen that in a paper like, like it was advertised in a local paper. What?

C

Jack used to run an ad in a daily journal every so often. And Saturdays would be kids days to go shoot. And we used to have, you know, I want to say at its peak, probably 25 or 30 kids, it would have been before me. But they actually, I think in 99 or 2001, correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but I believe they won the championship at the grand for one of the age brackets, so.

B

Oh, okay.

C

Jack's been doing it since 1991. It's kind of been his whole life.

A

But, well, big shout out to Jack. I mean, for taking the initiative. I mean, so, you know, we talk about it all the time about growing the sport and trying things and I've never once heard of anyone taking a personal ad out inviting People to come shoot. But what a. You know, what a fabulous idea. And, and why, you know, whether it's state associations or higher associations, I mean, setting up an environment for people to feel welcome and just come try it out. I mean, it. Obviously it brought you in, right? I mean, you're, you're, you know, I mean, all of those targets and all of those accolades and all of those things wouldn't have happened without a, you know, little. Without Jack, without $2 ad, right. I mean, would you agree with that?

C

I would. I would say you're right. And I guess my. My dad had shot before and so did my uncle. My uncle actually shot off with Leo. And who's the fella from Ohio that's also. He's still shooting?

B

Dave Burlett.

C

Not Dave Burlett, but Louie Morgan.

B

Oh, Louie.

C

But yeah, but my uncle Tim was actually. He's passed on now, but he was a pretty good shooter. But. But, but they hadn't shot in forever. But you're right, wasn't for Jack taking the initiative with Exline Gun Club and putting that ad out, which I have to admit, I'd never really thought about it, but that is kind of an odd, Odd deal in today's world, for sure.

B

Well, absolutely. In 2000, though, in that era, you know, when you started, you know that 2000 to that them smaller towns like that, that's what a lot of people did because a lot of guys, you know, Internet or whatever, but, you know, so what I will say is your father has Jack to blame, not you, for shooting. That's all I'm gonna say.

A

Send the bill to Jack.

B

Yes. And the bill check.

A

Yeah. Oh, hell no. I'm just. I'm analyzing stuff and I'm bringing it right back to me. That's horrible. So.

C

So.

A

So with that being said, you know, for people listening to the show today, take that as an opportunity to create the next Tony. Right? Like. Like if there's a, you know, if you want to start doing, you know, a Facebook post or. Hey, guys, I'm going to the range on Wednesday. Anybody's welcome to come with me, try it out. I mean, there's anything new, you know, that kind of stuff is how the stories are created. Most people that have been introduced to this sport are introduced from somebody else that's already in the sport because, you know, there's not a lot of. There's not a lot of outside marketing or. Or pull from people that are not in the know. I mean, everybody that's in the trap shooting community knows Everything that's going on. But, but if you're not in it outside, you're right side of it. We don't have anything to pull them in. We have nothing to show them. Hey, come on and try this out. So.

B

And that's something that, you know, you know, people can do. All the shooters out there, like Zach just said, if you're going to the gun club on Wednesday night league or Tuesday night league, Thursday night, you know, whatever it might be, you know, put an ad out, throw a deal like, hey, anybody wanting to come to XYZ Gun Club and you know, try trap shooting or whatever it may, skeet shooting, sporting clays, you know, get people involved in the clay target sports.

A

That's what it's absolutely, it's self.

C

I know I do every. Everything I can. Like my buddy A.J. you know, you heard the name aid in Ireland.

A

Yes, absolutely.

C

So it's actually his cousin and he was a shooter. And I didn't even realize it, but I went to school with my buddy aj. He goes, well, I'm kind of bored sitting at home. He went out and bought a brand new Browning. He started shooting a lot and then trying to reel a couple of the other guys in if I can. But yeah, you know, they're all starting to have kids a little bit, or they've already had kids and now they can get out a little bit more. And, you know, God knows we're 30, 32, 33, 35 years old. We're. We're not gonna go play baseball.

B

Well, you can try it. I don't recommend it.

A

You know, need something a little looser on the joints. Let's just put it that way.

C

I need to be iced afterward if I tried pitching again. I think, oh, we're not doing that.

A

Throw your arm out. So. So the next thing I wanted to circle back on was you said you had a pretty good, tight relationship with George Nellenberger, and you said that there was some, some tidbits of gold that he gave you that carried into your own game. And we're definitely going to talk about your own style and get into detail today. But before we go there, you know, what are one or two things that he told you that were really impactful that that helped?

C

Well, the gun adjustment thing was a big one. You know, he could, he. I felt like he could see what you were doing wrong as far as, you know, okay, you grew it. You grew six inches. You need to. We need to, we need to raise things, you know, and do that kind of stuff. It was Very helpful there. He's very helpful with, you know, a lot of kids, including myself, had a little bit of a temper back, and. And, you know, he's very good at explaining to me how that didn't help. And Jackie was, too. Yeah. But the biggest thing in my mind that George taught me in a simple. Or was to just simplify things. I remember we were at the central zone shoot, and I was shooting with Jackie and George and a couple other people, and I was probably. I think I was double. I was double A27AA when I was 13, so I could hold my own as a shooter. And I missed three on the first trap and the singles. And we get back to the bench, and George whacks me on the back of the head and goes, hey, get your head out of your. Out of your rear end and point the rest of these targets out. It's not complicated. They're singles. And I pointed the rest of them out, and I broke the last 175. But that was one day. I've kind of. I could honestly say I've applied that logic to most of my shooting. If it works, use it. If it doesn't, don't use it.

A

Point them out, Point them out. And I think. I think that happens all too much in the game, especially with the 200 bird races. I think there's a lot of shooters that can break 98s, 99s, and hundreds pretty consistently in 100 bird races because they know they can control that length of distance. And in their mind, they're kind of like, okay, I can get from start to finish and get there. But then you take those same shooters that average, you know, let's say it's 98 in 100 bird races, and then in 200 bird races, they're. They're averaging a lot lower because they're like, oh, it's starting the 200 bird race, my 200 straight that I haven't got yet, or whatever. And then 22s and 21s and, like, all those scores kind of squeak into the front, and you just. You just lose it. And I think there's so much power to point each target out. Like. Like, shoot each target individually and work on that. Yeah, don't think about the length of the business that you're doing. Don't think about, oh, we've got a. We've got eight boxes to go. Because really, I mean, being a clay target champion, you don't have eight boxes to go. You got eight boxes to start. You got eight boxes to. To get to the point to where you can go and then point them out for. I mean, do you remember how long your clay target was, Tony? That shoot off?

C

Oh, I. I got off easy. When I won the following year, I didn't and lost, but I. I only had to go 175. We got it done the first night. Yep.

A

All right, folks, we got to talk about Johnson's Furniture appliance and Mattress. Jason Johnson, he's a great guy. I just seen him in the shoot off the other day. He's helping shooters out with their mattresses all across the country. Tell them about it.

B

Rick. Johnson's Furniture appliance and Mattress in Wichita Falls, Texas. They will do a white glove service on tempur pedic mattresses right to your door or to your gun club. It don't matter. It'll help you out.

A

See, I need it because when those RVs, they come with them little flimsy little mattresses, My neck's all hurt. I need something good to sleep on. We gotta feel good, we gotta shoot good. So give them a try, folks, if you're looking for the best RV bed in the industry.

B

Yep, that's right. You gotta get a good mattress if you want to shoot well. We appreciate everything you do for us, Jason.

A

Hey, folks, we gotta talk about 12 gauge leatherworks out of St. George, Utah. I just got my package in the mail. I got a brand new trap talk pouch with a holder and shelves. I got all kinds of stuff. What kind of stuff you got, Ricky?

B

I got the same. Got the initials on there. Nice four box holder. But the best thing is the buckle holder, folks. That is cool. Got it stamped with initials. It's awesome.

A

I love that buckle holder. We can. I'm gonna hang that right behind me. When we do podcasts, that's a great gift for Christmas. I mean, think about everybody hanging their buckles up. And you know these guys pretty well, right, Rick?

B

Yeah, I actually did lessons at Livermore with them here at the beginning of the year with Jared and his son Carson. There's a nice little pic of us there. And as you can see, it was a little cold in California, but great folks. They support trap shooting, they support trap talk.

A

If you need some leather stuff, give them a try and we'll see him at a shoot near you soon. Hey, folks, I got to give a quick thank you to integrated companies out of Utah.

B

We.

A

They're a great company. They support trap shooting and they support trap talk. Ricky, tell them what they do.

B

They do about anything you can imagine for all Businesses of all size, but they do insurance, hr, payroll taxes, accounting. But we would like to thank Terry and Flynn Paulson for supporting us.

C

We really appreciate it.

A

Absolutely. If you're a business owner in the trap shooting community and you like supporting brands to support trap support integrated companies out of Utah. You know, Rick, the only thing looks better than these hats we're wearing right now is a bunch of golden stuff. Silver from Ron Prescott at Mid state precious metal. Show them the goods.

B

Listen, all I got silver right now. I won't bring the gold out for

A

Zach, but you know, I always want

B

to get that gold shotgun shells, 10 ounce bars. Folks, he could do anything for you. For all your shoot needs, give Ron Prescott a call midstatepreciousmetals.com He's a great guy.

A

Support him. He supports all the shoots. He supports trap Talk. If you're thinking gold or silver, you need to be thinking Ron Prescott at Midstate Precious Metals. Thank you, Ron.

B

That's right. Thanks for all the support.

C

But, but like to your point though, in like the clay target rate or clay target race specifically, you lost. You might as well miss all the targets if you do. If you don't hit this target.

B

Yeah.

C

And that's just the way it is, unfortunately. You know, if you're competing at a

A

higher level, it's all or nothing on each target.

C

Right, right.

A

You can't, you know, you can shoot a great score on the clay target. You could still win in other categories or classes. But for the elusive ring, it's all or nothing. Every single shot. And.

C

Well, and how many times have you watched a guy break the first hundred just smooth as silk? And then we go out there for the second one and you know, we're, we're, we almost over drill the fundamentals, you know. Yeah, you know, we're, we're getting beyond. Okay. You know, maybe if I, I was. Felt like I was doing this the first hundred. No, it's, you know, make sure we're ready, our eyes are set and point at the bird, don't aim at it. And I think that's what a lot of people should have missed.

B

You know, Tony, you're right. A lot of people. And I've seen it over the years of shooting the grand. 37 times, I think is, especially in the clay target. You can watch all those first hundreds come in and if you could go watch every person shoot the second hundred they've shot. They're shooting the second hundred usually different than the first hundred because they're thinking about the end result instead of what they're there to do. And that's one thing that, you know, I always put my shooting is, you know, it's this target. Like you said, It's 100 now. It ain't. The next 10 targets after this, they don't matter nothing. You got to break this one. And it is funny to, you know, people that are even very experienced shooters do it.

A

Well, yeah, because it's a psychological. It's a psychological deal. It's. It's, oh, my God, the clay target. And to think about that, you know, you have, you know, if we talk about the, you know, the top hundred guys in the country or whatever that number is, top hundred guys and gals that have a chance at really winning one of these rings at any given day based on their ability. Right. I mean, now.

B

Now they're.

A

When it's your day, it's your day. Right. So I guess the whole group of people there would have an opportunity day is your day. But there's, you know, a certain amount of people that consistently are like, okay, I could see that happening. And they get into it, and then they talk themselves out of it. Because it's once a year, you know, it's. It's once a year you show up and all the marbles are on the line for this one event. Basically the one thing you want to win, and you're, like, paralyzed by the fact that you're trying to be perfect. And it's better to be. It's better to do it right than to do it perfect. And doing it right just involves doing it the way you've been doing time. Yeah, just relax.

B

That's the biggest thing. I, I've missed the first target on the clay target before and went. But then I go, okay, I know I'm not going to win the championship, especially on a nice day, you know, there's no chance of that. There's going to be a 200. But you always look at the end result, the HOA or the All Around.

A

Yeah, I've had a few 199s in the clay target. I think once or twice that first target out, and it's. It's a. But you know what? It's a. It's. It's. I have to say, I hate to say it's a sigh of relief, but that's sometimes what you're like, oh, crap, I'm. I like, it's like the pressure's gone. Like, you.

B

Zach goes, we can go to dinner tonight.

A

I said, it's Sizzler time. Time for that 40 of the Lewis, baby. No 60 today. Those 199s are getting chopped hard.

B

Get a $52 out of the Lewis,

A

but hey, you know, money in the morning.

B

Tony, do you remember who it was down to in the clay target your last?

C

Barfalo was. Barfalo was the last one okay.

B

Foster?

C

No, Matt.

B

Matt was okay. So it was down to you and Matt and then what about the doubles that year?

C

The doubles it was. Andrew Sudo was the last one and then third place, I want to say that was. Remember he was shooting a Browning. I don't. It might have been Jack Kreiner.

B

Okay.

C

But Andy Sudo was the.

B

Which is ironic. I just shot with Suda two weeks ago in Detroit.

C

Oh, did you go up for.

B

I was like, yeah, I went up for the various Frank woods memorial and then did a one day class on Sunday, but shot the shoot and I shot with Daryl Hayes and myself and Bruce Burton and then Andy Suda and Dave Griesamo. We shot the handicap and doubles together. So it was fun because Suit and I've been shooting against each other since we started.

C

No.

B

So we've known each other as, you know, sub juniors and stuff. So that was kind of cool to see him and shoot with them guys. And the weather was not very nice up there. It was a little windy and No,

C

I, I think I had to work that weekend. I was kind of sad I couldn't make it up there. And then I looked at the weather and I went, Let me tell you,

B

let me tell you. We shot the, we shot the doubles in the morning and that was the best weather. And I broke a 99 and. And then we shot the singles and I missed three on one trap and I shot with a hood up, raincoat on, hood up. The whole hundred. First time I've ever done that in singles of the hood up. It was, I mean it was, it was, but it was fun. I mean it wasn't. Everybody's like, man, you had a 96 in singles. I said, yeah, but you know what? It ain't about the average. It was about. It was a great event.

A

It happens. It happens. And you know, it doesn't matter how good you are, it doesn't matter how many you hit. You put the right weather conditions out there and, and you know, it's like they said, they say in, in predator, if it breeds, if it bleeds, I can kill it. And you know, I was second place

B

with a, with a 96. So I wasn't complaining. Well, yeah,

C

to your point there, Zach I'm going to New York next week. And I looked at the forecast. It's about an average temperature of 58, which, you know. Wear your sweatshirt. This, this year ain't the year. I'm chasing an average. You know, I'm, I'm shooting all these goofy little clubs and stuff, just trying to shoot and.

A

Well, and you're getting, you're getting wins back under your belt, right? Like you're, you know, and I think that, that, you know, you go there and you start chipping your teeth on it. I mean, that's good.

C

I think I'm better off with a 30 mile an hour wind and, and 60 degrees out. Is that right there. I just took out half my competition because they already, they are. Well, if they showed up to the line, they don't want to be there. And then the other half in New

B

York, you know, those New Yorkers, Tony, they, they like, they, they live for shooting there at the.

C

I called Herb. Yes, Herb, Warmer yesterday. And he goes, oh, it'll be fine. Like, yeah, okay,

B

to Syracuse is where you're head to Cicero. Okay. Yeah, I shot that shoot one time and it was nice for a few days, and then it downpoured for the other two days. And I was like, but that's, that's how it is up in Cicero.

A

You never know.

C

You know, Kind of looking like I'm just going to get all seven days. It's not going to be good, is it? Really?

A

You never know. You never know.

B

Are you driving up there, Tony? Are you? Are you?

C

Yeah, we're gonna, we're going to pull a camper up there. It's, it's about. Well, I'm leaving Monday morning at 7am and it'll be rough traffic, so it'll be 13 or 14 hours.

A

But yeah, I know it's gonna be worth it.

B

I drove it straight through from here. One year.

A

So when you're standing out there in the line and it's blowing and raining on you, you're gonna be like, man, I'm glad I came.

C

I'm glad. Diesel's 550 a gallon, and it, you know, it cost $800 to get to where I'm standing.

B

Where does that shoot start, Tony?

C

What's that?

B

When does that shoot start?

C

Tuesday. Tuesday the 5th.

B

5th. Okay. Yeah, yeah, Weather for you, Tony, it's, you know, 62 in showers. 67. Hey, you're 67 on Wednesday, Tony. Like a heat wave.

A

The good news is the good. There is some really good Italian food up there in New York.

B

Like I.

A

You're going to be able to eat some pison stuff?

B

Yeah. Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Tony, it looks like beautiful weather, 54 to 58 each day, but no showers except for Sunday morning.

C

So you know, I, well, you know, I can deal with that. It. I, I just bought about $200 worth of cold gear and along underwear and stuff. So we'll be good.

A

If, if anybody wants to comment in the, the, the best places to eat around New York on the, on the video, go ahead and comment them so we have them difference because I'm sure me and Ricky will go up there one time and we want to eat some good Italian food.

B

I've been up there and there is Herb Wommer took me and Robert Crow. It was me, Herb Wommer. I think Robert Crow and Aaron Willoughby. I think that's who it was. And Herb took us to a good place, which. You know Herb, Tony.

C

Yeah, I'm shooting with him.

A

Oh, are you?

B

So get on Herb. There's a good Italian place there. But just so you know, Tony, you're going to be in New York. It's going to be cold. I'm going to be in Bismarck, North Dakota, teaching the same time.

C

That's worth it.

B

And it, it's looking like it's going to be 53. The lows are in the freezing up there, but it's going to be in the 50s. Except for Friday. Saturday. 69, 67. I'll make it back for mother's day.

A

So there you go. There you go. So. So, Tony, there's a lot we still need to talk about that we've, we haven't got into the depths of your shooting career and I appreciate you kind of sharing the story, you know, with the, with the clay target and the, the doubles. I guess one thing that I'd like to ask before we get a little bit more technical is how did you feel? I mean obviously you broke the clay tart. You won the clay target. Like that was done. It was a one night deal. So it wasn't a carryover, multiple night situation where you're like wondering going into the doubles, am I going to win the clay target? Because I know a lot of people that by the time they're shooting for the doubles, they're still lingering in their head with the clay target because they haven't won it yet. Right. It's, it's like, it's, it's, it's. I broke the 100 doubles, but I gotta go shoot this clay target shoot off again. So with it being already one in your mind already having one ring, did that make it easier going into the doubles, or did it make it harder because you're like, oh, my God, I have an opportunity to get two. Like, like what kind of thoughts were going through your head, if any, you know? And, and what helps? What, what thoughts helped you win the shoot off?

C

Well, I tell you what, I can explain it this way. When Matt miss and I. I'm a shooter, I shoot right on. Not on top of the next guy, but when it's my turn, I'm going to shoot. Yeah, I had the gun about there, and I went, oh, my, what now? What are we gonna do now? And it was. I think I had eight targets left. It was the longest eight targets I've ever shot. Now, the doubles, the following day. Well, no, there was a day in between there. Day in between, yeah, but the doubles, we went out and I had broken hundreds and doubles before, so, you know, the, the air had kind of let out of the balloon of the clay target and the celebrations that had happened and what have you. And the broke. The doubles. And I remember walking out to that shoot off, and I wouldn't. I'm not going to say I was unbeatable, but that night I was as close to it as I would ever have gotten because it just. There was no nerves, I mean, at all. When. And when Andy missed, I. It was just like, well, business as usual. And then he. He ended up missing a couple more, actually. And that made it easy. Yeah, it was crazy.

A

It's like a silver platter when they do that. Yeah.

C

Oh, it just. I mean, I was so fortunate. I only had to go 80 in the doubles, too, so it wasn't a long one. It was before you crazy guys. We started doing that 200 crap, though. That's. That's brutal.

B

Been in them.

C

It is brutal. Oh, God.

A

Yeah. But I mean, and that's a lot to say though, because, you know, to. To give some contrast and compare clay target. Eight shots left. You can't even hold the gun up. You can't even, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're at a point where you're like, you want it so bad and you could taste it. And you can't even get the gun still. And you're doing everything you can to hack and chip your way through those eight shots and win the damn thing. And then fast forward. Well, now you've got the ring under your belt. Now we've done it. Now we've broke our first 100 straight or 25, if you will. And you go into the next shoot off with just this, you know, calm, cool demeanor like, like, hey, this is, this is just another day in the office.

D

Right?

A

I mean, I. And I think that shift is a humongous shift when we look at the people who have won multiple rings. I mean, if we look at Leo, the highest wing ring winner ever, I mean, 27. At some point in time, he had to be like, it's just another day in the office. It's just, you know, maybe the first one or the second one, but. But after, he's just like, just another ring, just another, Just another.

C

I don't think you could have got under Leo's skin if you had a knife. But, you know, I, I remember at approaching the double shoot off and. All right, we gotta get. We gotta get through this first 20. And then, you know, obviously you get out there and I like to break it down post by post, shot by shot, if I can. And you know, after, after the first 20, like I was saying, it just, it was like cruise control.

A

It got easier.

C

Yeah, I. And looking back on that, it. It was really abnormal. But the stars align and.

A

Yeah.

C

God, I mean, sometimes. Sometimes they do for people.

B

Well, it's your time. It's your time. I mean, that, that just, it's how it is. I mean, you can, you know, go out there and overthink the process or and such. But, you know, like you said, you were as close to unbeatable as you could get. And that was. Probably had a lot to do with how. When in the clay target, you know,

C

a couple days prior.

B

Yeah. You know, where it was like. No, I've been here. Like you said, business as usual.

A

Business as usual. And the confidence boost, like that, that boost of, you know, not nervous. So, so let's get, let's get downright technical now. So, you know, Rick, I know you had a lot of involvement with them since the beginning, since they started. But I really love the way that the shot tracker, you know, catches the doubles from shot to shot with the looping. You know, tell the folks what they need to know about that system.

B

It's the best system out there. It's like having a coach on the end of your barrel, like we say, but going especially in doubles from first shot to second shot. You can see it on the graph, you can see it on video.

A

Yeah. I mean, if you talk about that j hook with Sean, Holly and all them, I mean, it'll literally show that loop. And I think that's really powerful if you're doing it. They've supported the show since the beginning. They love trap shooting. They're great people. Give them a shot, folks. They make a great product.

B

Take Game Technologies.

A

Hey, Rick, we got to take a second. We got to thank Outlaw Engineering and the first Preston family for supporting trap shooting and supporting Trap Talk podcast. They've been here for us. They're great people, you know. You know them real well, Rick.

B

Yeah, I've known Randy since 1988. R2 and the family, they're great supporter of the show. Coop just won the Autumn Grand Handicap championship with a 97.

A

I know, I was there. I got to interview him. It was great. I was so proud of him. He's doing a great job. Hashtag, where's Coop? He's somewhere with that big buckle. He's having fun. You need anything engineering related, get a hold of Outlaw. They'll take great care of you. Great folks.

B

Thanks for all the support.

A

Outlaw. I got to give a huge shout out to the Cardinal Center. They're doing a fabulous job and they've got some fantastic shoots coming up with some great prizes. John, tell the folks what they got coming up.

D

Well, they've got their three big shoots, so they've got the Buckeye Open, they've got the Ohio State shoot and they've got the Cardinal Classic. The Buckeye is May 27 through June 1. The Cardinal Classic is actually after the grand, so that's August 11th through the 16th. And the Ohio State shoot this year is June 22nd through June 28th. Also gonna have the Backfin Shootout during the Ohio State shoot also. So, yeah, they're really kicking it up this year, Rick. They're doing a big giveaway, twenty thousand

B

dollar Lewis at the Cardinal Classic. So you guys don't want to miss that. So I might have to pencil that back in on the schedule. If they're giving away a bunch of gold and silver for that. We got the, the silver and the gold, everything given away at the Ohio State shoot with the Back Vent Shootout. There's another event too going on in Ohio State shoot. So folks, you don't want to miss the Cardinals three big shoots. Put them all on your calendar.

D

Yeah, I think in the, the Buckeye Open they've added a bunch of stuff too. So they're giving away. I'm just kind of looking at the list here. 78 flats of ammo. They're going to give away. They're. They're giving away L and M lenses. They're doing a Browning CSX Gun giveaway at the Buckeye also. And then, yeah, like you were saying, Rick, the Cardinal Classic, they've just started adding stuff. They've got the $20,000 in gold and silver for the HOA. They're doing some added stuff, I heard for the juniors. You know, they're doing like a $3,000 purse for some juniors.

A

Juniors.

B

Junior, I think.

D

Yeah, yeah. So they're doing that too. And then the Ohio State shoot this year, they're kicking it up also. So the Cardinals center and the Ohio State shoot together. I think this is the year to make sure you make it out to Ohio.

A

Well, Ohio State's got 160 ounces of added silver in that combined handicap event. I mean, that's a huge deal. Champion runner up and then yardage groups are all going to get some silver. And I mean that is completely free to enter. All you got to do is shoot all the handicaps in the overall. I mean, it's a no brainer. Just show up and shoot the handicaps. Get in on 160 ounces of silver. Where the heck can you do that? Other than like Nevada? Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and double plug.

D

A double Shameless.

A

The double Shameless, that's like their version of the twofer, but a little different. We just stick right.

C

Different.

A

Yeah.

D

Oh, and here, here's a breaking news for everybody. The Cardinal center has also switched over to SOS Clays. Yep. So now the app is going to work. You can see how much you're winning. You can check your squads, all that good stuff. So at the Cardinal center now, three for three fur.

B

Three.

A

Yeah.

D

Oh, and all the gold and silver came from Ron Prescott at Midsick Precious Metals.

A

Is that a for plug on? Plugs on plugs. We love plugs.

D

I, I think the main story here, guys, is this is a year to. If you haven't gone to Ohio, it should definitely already been on your bucket list.

A

You're not, you know, going to Ohio. Haven't gone to Ohio. You need to seriously reconsider your lives. Like, get it together, folks. Go to the Cardinal Classic. Shoot targets at the greatest place in Ohio to shoot targets and win silver and gold with the likeness of the greats like Joey Chernigo. Slow Joe, baby. It's, it's a real deal. Come on out and see us.

D

That's very true. And it's a beautiful facility. I mean, it is one of those kind of marquee facilities for trap shooting. So I would definitely say go there and trap talk's gonna be there.

B

That's right, merge. We'll have everything.

A

Yeah, my, my little shout out to. It is what I love best about it is the camping because they've got so many camping spots there that everyone can stay on the grounds with their trailer and they've got a swimming pool. They've got like cool little trails and stuff you could walk on. I mean it's just a beautiful facility and it makes you feel like you're at a resort at a gun club and that's like. That doesn't happen, guys. Like it's, it's very, very beautiful.

D

Rick, you've had some, some pretty big stuff happen at Ohio. I, I'm trying to remember back. Weren't you the first Ohio.

B

I was the first to break a 100 and handicap from the 27 there. And, and I sit right now with the. Tied with Mr. Leo Harrison for the most hundreds broke there with four. We each broke four so far.

C

That's awesome.

D

Yeah, that's, that's really cool.

B

Yeah. If you, if you haven't been there, put it on the list. All three shoots. Especially the Ohio State shoot and the Cardinal Classic.

C

Those two for sure.

D

Yeah. And this year they are going above and beyond. So we love, we love to see states kicking it up. We love to see gun clubs kicking it up and giving back to the shooters. I think there's a lot of value in the shooters heading out to Ohio. And again these guys are going to be there. So I mean, what other reason?

A

And, and they got the backfin shootout Fifer.

B

We're rolling. Yeah,

A

it's all plugged up today and we're having a good time. So that. With that being said, John, let's get to the show. You know, Rick, I was at the Autumn grand and the Nevada State shoot and I was just really impressed with how I could see where my squad was when I was up. Just the technology, the ability to be able to see what options I've played if the events paid or not. I mean, what's your experience with, with the app?

B

Listen, sos, Clay's app. It's the best thing out there, folks. You see everything.

C

It's great.

B

You see your option payouts. You can see when you're up, you can see who's paid on your squad. Sometimes Zach doesn't pay on time, but it's.

A

I get out there. But what I really think is, is for gun clubs, it's free. Call Greg, get a hold of him. He'll set you up, he'll get you running.

C

Right.

A

And if you pay the premium once a year you get free pre squatting in all the shoots. And that's the best value in trap shoot.

B

Absolutely.

A

SOS clays.com youm've shot so long, is your style now the same as when you shot the clay target? And if it is, what are you doing? What is, what is the Tony Fortino? If we were going to come out with a Tony Fortino DVD on trap shooting, what would you do? What are you doing? For hold points, for point of impacts, for chokes, for shells. Like just walk us through singles, doubles and handicap.

C

Well, I shoot different guns now. I still have my old gun. Well, we could get into that if you want. But I shoot a silver sights and a Krie Goff now. Okay. And hopefully I'll be shooting a Krieg off full time by the summer. Okay. To a combo. But anyway, I've always shot a 90 or 100% high gun but with a little space in the beads. So it seems to be my wheelhouse. I'll set the rib at about 80, 20 and just get my eye a little bit above the rib. Now that being said, I have tried way high, way low and it doesn't seem to make that much a difference. That's just the sweet spot. So that tells me I shoot off the end of the barrel. Yep. But I, when I mount the gun, I see, I see two. Two finger like I'm right now point at the camera, I see two fingers. So I think my left eye takes over quite a bit. Which I've got prescription glasses now and that seems to have curtailed that a little bit. But let's call it 100% point of impact. I'm generally down on the house unless the targets are a little higher. And I've also noticed as the season goes on, my whole point will start to creep up ever so, ever so slightly. Not like not rich bulwark high but you know, a foot above the house type deal. Now doubles, that's a totally different story. I'm a foot above the house and I'm kind of get. I'm giving the first target a push and a slight drop. Get underneath the second one and shoot it. But I've always shot doubles real fast. This last couple years hasn't been real successful for me. But I generally don't have to do quite the loop that some people like to do. But I think I might have to start.

A

You were talking about shooting him so fast that you don't have to make quite as aggressive of a loop as the other shooters because you're going bap and you're kind of turning into the target. It, you know.

B

Yep.

A

Is that, is that by design? Is that by, you know, reflex? Is it like, do, do you think that at this stage in the game slowing down a little better for you? Do you like, are you just going to keep shooting until you get back into your timing? Man? What's your, what's your thoughts on this?

C

Well, I've, I've got this Krieg off and it's got a, you know, custom, it's a pro soft on it, and whoever had it built had a big old forend on it, and it's a 32. And everybody knows Krie Goff's a little heavier than a Parazi. So at this point, I, I'm feeling much more comfortable just being a little, a touch more deliberate now. Is it working? It's, I'm working on it, but, you know, it just totally, totally different from what I'm used to. But, you know, before I'd shoot low targets too, and it really didn't make a difference because when I'd shoot be shooting low targets or you'd have, you know, the high, low deal, you know, I, I would still have to dig them out. And I broke good scores in the wind and, you know, on lower targets. So it really shouldn't be as much of a problem for me as it has been the last two months.

B

Just getting used to it.

C

Yeah, no, I, you know, I, I had slowed down a little bit in North Carolina and at the grand, and I, I've had good scores, but just a little inconsistent. You know, it's, you know, and part of that's getting older. I, you know, I always used to laugh at. People say you turn 30 and everything goes to hell. But I turned 30. I've got glasses and I also have two bottles of bottles of gout medication in my pickup truck. I had to borrow some from Sean Holly at the Spring grand, actually, so, but no, back on point here. No, I, I, I can't get myself to do that, that huge of a loop. Now I'm gonna have to try something along those lines because I am missing second targets. First target's not a problem, but, and it's always, it's always on the right hand side, which I've adjusted footwork and that worked for a while and then it starts going away.

B

So it, so what, what length of barrel you shooting? 32s.

C

32s? Yeah.

B

You might want to look at going to a 30.

C

Either that or putting the factory Fore end back on. Because the one I got on there, it's a. It's a big dog, but it's beefy. Yes.

B

Yeah.

A

Yeah. So. So. So for me to break this down in my head, for people that are listening, it sounds like, in total, you're. You're shooting roughly 100% high gun most of the time. You. You're aggressive in demeanor. In all three games, you're pretty house close to the house conscious. You're not, you know, you're not early or really high above the house. Like a rich Bullard, you're pretty close to either on the house or within a foot or two of. Of the house is. Is where you're going. And in doubles, you're pressing a little bit more on that first target just to give you a little bit more power to break it a little bit quicker. And then because you're breaking it so fast with so much authority, you're making a clean move, almost a, you know, just kind of over move versus a dip move. Because that target is so much higher than the first target. Because you're breaking that. That first target so close to the house, which I would say that's a little bit closer to how I shoot doubles, too. I've never experienced as much of that hook. Like, I. I've used it some days where there was. Where I had to break the target out a little bit farther. The first target, or I had to get to that second target and really get down to get over there to get that target. But, I mean, ideally, I mean, I'm breaking that first target low enough that the other one's up in the air high enough that I can just kind of come underneath from over and not have to. Not have to give as much. Much J. J curve or whatever you want to call it.

C

But, you know, I've watched Hugh shoot, and if you're firing on all cylinders, you're shooting the second one on the way up, so there's really no reason to make a conscious down. But,

B

yeah, everybody says that, but I always say if you're. If your guns come because you're shooting the most people without even thinking about it, you're shooting that first one so quick that you're automatically just going straight across a lot of times, and a lot of times guys are shooting the first one and keeping the gun moving

A

up, that's a problem. That's a problem.

B

And then I come down so I can always see the target. That's why it's trigger control. And it's not a set do where Zach. Zach tries to shoot the doubles the same speed a lot. Bang, bang, bang, bang. If you're doing that, yeah, you're not gonna. You're not gonna do much of a loop. But also your double scores are gonna be like a roller coaster up and down.

C

You gotta keep in mind you're talking to a couple Italians too, though, so we don't. We don't get it.

B

Yeah, well, yeah, I've been having that, you know.

A

Hey, but, you know, it's. It's preference. At the end of the day, you got to do what works best for you individually to find your game and. And what works and doesn't work. And I think that, you know, if you're not. If you're moving to the second bird before you see it, you're done. And if dropping the gun down allows you to see it better, then that's an advantage. But if you can control your drop, that's the thing.

B

Everybody missed little.

A

Yeah, it's not a foot, you know, like that.

B

You're not. It's just a small. All it has to be, literally, is a quarter of an inch. It makes a huge difference out at the distance. So.

A

Yeah, absolutely.

C

It's like a. Like a. Like a. Almost like a break and run for it, you know? Or. Yeah, you're at.

A

If you're getting really good control of the muzzle on the first shot, though, like. Like Ricky said it. It makes a difference if you're running with the gun. So a lot of people are breaking that first target. They keep the gun moving, and they. Then they're moving over to that second target. It's all one. One big wish. You move where I consciously am thinking, okay, when I break this first target, it's like I'm locking up the. The disc brakes in a nascar. I'm. I'm. I'm stopping everything up, and then I'm looking, and then I'm moving from that spot. So it's two individual moves for me. It's not one fluid pressing move all the time.

B

You're not doing one fluid move with

A

a loop at all. Well, I wasn't saying that. I was saying when people make that

B

move, shoot the first one. You shoot and your eyes shift and then you come down so the barrel's not in the way. That's one thing. Now shooting a flat rib gun, that. That's a little bit different. But if you come down just a little bit. Yeah, trust me, I'll argue this with anybody. All day long.

A

A lot.

B

You watch Sean, Holly. I mean, Sean Comes down just a smidge. But this is more of like a check mark because of the way he shoots doubles.

A

Absolutely.

B

You know, right. Bird first all the time.

A

No, I, I, I was refer, you said most people make a continuous move.

B

Yeah, they go the wrong way, they're going boom. Or, or most people want to spot shoot. So they're dead gunned. So they're going bang. And then they're, they're doing this whip

A

move that's bad, doesn't work. Those all don't work. But, no, but, but for, no, no, no, no, no good but. So Tony, is there, is there anything more though to your game as far as, are you using, you know, a lot of lower body on your press? Are you pretty, you know, straight up and down? Are you shooting more from the shoulders? I mean, there are things that you're trying to do in your mind that are like, okay, this is my job to really break the next target. When we get down to that, break the next one, shoot the next one. You know, give it 100%. What are the things that you're doing in pre shot routine or doing the shot that equal success for Tony?

C

Well, and not to beat the dead horse with the doubles, but I did have a thought there. Your J hook might be what I do with my knees and my hips. So when I shoot the first target, it's, you know, you're obviously all the, all the muscles and movements you're doing for the first one are going to be totally different. So like say I'm on post five. I'm, it's almost like I dip my left shoulder and I really run off my front hip to get to it. So I'm natural, I'm naturally going to come up from underneath of it and, and do that movement. But to answer your question, I've, I've always bounced back and forth on like the Harlan Campbell style push, push the target or on any discipline for that matter. Because there's some days I walk to the line and that first five is always the decider. I know where I'm going to start. I'm going to start with my, my weight forward and try to get my fundamentals right and go to the target and naturally now, yeah, sometimes, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll feel it and it goes. I'll go, no, that ain't right. So then I'll be, I'll be trying the push or whatever and I'm, I'm kind of amazed the amount of good scores I've broken in my life. Struggling through that first 10, and I go, aha. Here. You know, here's. Here's what we need to do for the. For the rest of it. Now, is there that big of a variance in what I'm actually doing? Probably not, if somebody probably couldn't tell if they were watching me. But it's a. I think it really comes down to how fast are your eyes working that day, Because I'm sure you guys have watched me shoot before. I. I probably a little too fast for my own good on. On the average day. So, yeah, the. The. The good spot that I find is that day where I can. I can get myself to just slow down that extra touch, give the target an extra look, and shoot them where they're at, not where they're supposed to be, you know, is the main thing.

A

But, yeah, that makes a big difference. I mean, recognizing the target, shooting them where they're at, not where they're supposed to be, is huge. And, you know, I think for you, Tony, like, if you shot like you used to shoot, like, as many targets, as many days, as many, then I don't think the fast would be a problem because you're. You're.

C

You.

A

You're in. You're in the season, right? You're like, I've done this a bunch of times, and now it's like, automatic. And you can do that, you know, more like a Joey, you know, Cho. But for you, I mean, if you're, you know, coming in and then taking a month off or coming in then taking two months off and, well, then, you know, what I've always found is the less time you are on the gun, the more you have to pay attention to what's going on and, you know, not just, you know, gripping it and ripping it as fast as possible, if you will. You know, Rick, I just love having the peace of mind and knowing that if I'm traveling or I'm flying, something happens, I can get my winig and my Craig off replaced quickly and easily without costing me a bunch of money.

B

Yeah, exactly. The gun and trophy insurance, it's the best out there to ensure your guns, sure. Your trophy, animals, everything.

A

Thank you to the whole Cushman family for supporting the show and everything they do for Trap Shoot.

B

Absolutely. Get a of hold Cole Cushman, and he'll get you set up. Hey, Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?

A

You know, I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chucker down there, but now they got a Brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day, absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't, you need to go give it a check out.

B

Well, I'll have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot

A

some sporty clays then 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport. Come see it if you haven't. Guys, check them out. You know, Ricky, I know you used it on your barrels, but you even know what RGS stands for?

B

No, Zach, what does it stand for?

A

Really good.

B

Well, that is true. It is good stuff, folks. I use it to clean my barrels and it does make them shine.

A

Only problem is I wear white T shirts when I clean my barrels and I get them all messy, so I got to be better at that. But it gets all the plastic, all the gunk out. Give them a try, folks. They're great.

B

That's right. Give RGS a try.

A

We appreciate all the support and. Yeah, you know, and sometimes that, that happens at a shoot. For me, the first couple days, I'm like finding my, my speed and then as everything gets comfortable, then I can, you know, take the training wheels off and let it roll, but. Training wheels? Yeah, they're training wheels, baby. Well, I guess bumpers off the, off the, off the bowling, off the bowling lanes.

C

I guess we're gonna find out if your theory is correct this summer, so. Because I'll be around, we'll see.

A

Yeah, you'll be shooting. And what I would expect to see if you're going to be around in the summer. I would. Based on what I know about you, I would expect, you know, the first two, three, four weeks in, that's where you're going to start to see things peaking and like really starting to. Because you're, you're, you're adding that information. You're calculating, you're building upon it. You're, you're, you're getting better and better and better every, every shot you make, you know, because you shot. I mean, when Tony started shooting, I was shooting. I was, I think I was. How old are you, Tony?

C

30.

A

30. So, so. So I'm a few old years older than Tony, but I remember like when I was a junior, I think he was either coming into junior or right at sub Junior. I mean, somewhere in that zone. But like, I'd always seen him around, you know, I'd always seen him competing and winning and like. Oh yeah, that guy's, he knows how to shoot. You know, we didn't, we didn't necessarily spend a Ton of time competing against each other in the categories. The one that I competed more with in the categories was. Was Nathan Hofer. He was a little older, so he was my age, and we. We went back and forth quite a bit when we shot. So.

C

No. I remember watching you up in Michigan. You know, people think you're bad right now as a walking billboard. They should have seen you back when you're first year junior shooting 33,000 targets.

B

You.

C

You were. Oh, my God. It was funny, baby. Oh, you had that.

B

Hey, anything.

A

Anything to keep the lights on is what they say, right? I was looking for. Looking for whatever I could do to stay in the sport back in the day.

C

But I guess. I guess it worked for you, so I can't fault you for that. But

A

as Ricky once told me, man's got to make a living.

C

That's a fact.

A

You know, you got it true. You got to do everything you can to. To keep with it and to move forward. And at the time, I was very blessed. You know, it was. It was financially difficult to shoot that much, but I had a lot of support, and so that. That helped.

B

That was Big Daddy's checkbook.

A

I mean, that was Remington.

B

That was.

A

That.

C

I know about that.

B

Big Daddy was slinging the paintbrush so Zach could sling the lead.

A

That was. That was Remington heavily back then. That was ludic. Heavily back then. That was. You know, those guys really stepped up. I remember. I remember them buying plane tickets for me and paying for events and. And, you know, they. They. You know, it's sad that they're not really operating anymore, but they did everything they could to get me where I needed to go. And a lot of it was with Mike Reinert when I was selling Post Force. So, you know, it was. I did a lot of glasses back then, back in the day, and that. That helped a lot. And, you know, obviously, you know, Big Daddy helped as much as he could, but, you know, there's just not enough paint. I mean, there's just not enough paint to sling, you know, But. But back to you, Tony, you know, we've covered your fundamentals. We've covered, you know, your setup. Is there any other, like, really good pieces of advice that you would give to shooters listening to the podcast today? Like, people that hear you and say, okay, well, what do we need to know more, Tony? What's. What's the extra secret sauce, if you will?

C

Well, I would say just you got to push hard to get to a high level, but don't overdo it, because that'll have Just the opposite effect. You want it to, you gotta have fun while you're out there. Yeah. You know, I've been very fortunate to be successful at this and I watch people just tear themselves apart, you know, trying to, you know, at any level. And there's, there's no reason to go out there and you know, be mad for the whole day because, you know, for whatever reason. But I guess it's just make, make sure you're having fun now to that point. Don't have too much fun at night like my, I like to do sometimes. I learned that, I learned that last weekend at Downers that another, another thing with being 30 years old. You can't, can't handle the, the aftermath of the, you know, libations anymore.

A

The pain, the pain is real. Oh, it'll sneak balance. Right. There's definitely an ebb and a flow. I mean there was things that we did 15 years ago that, you know, we're doing differently than we're doing now, you know, obviously. But I remember, you know, it was almost a badge of honor, you know, how late you were out at the night before and how good you shot the next day. Like if you could do both, then you were in the class of kings. Like if you, if you could do the, the Dave Kelly turn where you're up till 2:30 in the morning and then you, you do that late, early and you're clean. I mean, and Ricky wasn't, Ricky was, was as good as anybody at that.

B

Dave wasn't up that late, trust me.

A

Oh, I, I, I can say I was up that late a few times. I mean, I, I remember it. And you were up late too. I mean there was some time.

C

Oh yeah.

B

You didn't care if it was at the grand that I, I did that every night. Y highly recommend that I was, I

C

used to be at Joel's camper too, remember?

B

I know you were good.

A

I mean, and, and you were still consistent. I mean it didn't affect much. I mean you get it, you got it done and made it work.

B

Well, it's one of those that it, I remember 2006 grand. The first grand in Sparta. I was up every night till close the bar down and then we'd be at, at Gaskeys or Toms and yeah, that was a, but it was a good year. I won like 18 trophies and a couple grand rings. And then you think, oh, you could do that again. And then the next year you tried the first night and you're like, I'm out.

A

Well, the secret is is you got to stay with it. You can't. You can't. You can't give up after that first night.

B

But, oh, yeah, you can abort. It's called abort.

A

Pull the parachute.

C

Mike. Mike Hampton. Mike Hampton said something on the podcast that stuck with me about Mike Jordan, another good friend of mine. But he said he'd show up to shoot and go, all right, we're. We're gonna behave.

B

I'm.

C

We're done shooting. We're going to bed, you know, going back to the hotel. We're done. And then, like, the third day in and not. Not shooting well or not shooting to his potential, he'd go out and have a. Have a. Have a good time or stay out a little later, and the next day would shoot really good. I hate to say it, but I can really. I. I can really relate to that. I'll show up to a shoot, try to take myself serious, and I just can't. I. I gotta just relax and, you know, it's.

A

We used to call that the factory reset button on the back of the computer. Every once in a while when she's running slow, you just. You just push that button and bam, you're back, baby. So.

C

Yeah,

A

but. But, you know, I. Tony, it's. It's great to have you on, and it's great to see that you've come back because you're. You're like the person that everyone wanted to see come back because you had so much success early on. You were, you know, a dominator, a competitor, a grand ring winner. You know, you did all the things. But then, like everybody else, life hits you where you're like, okay, I have to have a career. You know, I can't make a living shooting a shotgun. So let's. Let's figure out that side of life. And now you've still got the itch. You've still got the bug. You've still. You still probably internally want to get to the top of your game again, right? To climb that mountain, you know, and that's giving you fuel in the tank to start traveling and going. And that's what the sport needs. It needs. It needs the people that went away, you know, let's just say 10 years ago, 15 years ago, to start trickling back in as they hit that, you know, 30s and 40s, so that, you know, and trying to be competitive. I. I guess, is it. Do you feel like it's harder now? Do you feel like it was harder then? I mean, are your goals ultimately a lot different now than they Were then. I mean, what's. What's on your mind as far as what you're trying to achieve and do?

C

Well, I tell you what, I could have. When I. Basically, I didn't quit, but when I stopped shooting as much in 2014, I had the green light from my dad. And, you know, I had. Federal was sponsoring me and Prosoft was helping me out. I could have went to college and continued shooting the circuit. And my thought at the time was, all right, I've already probably spent a hundred thousand dollars of dad's money. I'm gonna spend however much more of college, and I'm just prolonging this until I'm 22 anyway. So that's why I. I went back to it. And honestly, I could have came back sooner, but I got involved with jet boats and Harleys and other, you know, activities. So it. I was, you know, I. I was kind of content with shoot Missouri and Illinois in the grand, and. And. And not. Not really pushing the envelope too hard. And then somebody said something, and I don't know who that was. Remain nameless. Put me in a class, and that's why I came back.

A

I'll put that out there.

B

Hey, that had no faith in you, Tony. Your own blood had no faith in you.

A

See, See, Ricky doesn't understand because you

B

can't come back from this. You cannot put a pass clay target champion in a class.

A

Here, let me tell you something. No, no, no. You know, back down from. Back down from. No man. He came back at the mta. His average was like B class average in my head. You know what? I knew. I knew this.

B

Zach should not classify anybody.

A

I knew this. I knew that because he's Italian. It's not your fault. You're uninitiated and you're not Italian, but

B

when you don't matter, when you. When you take a lie you're gonna tell, that's gonna make this story good.

A

See, Ricky. Ricky only knows talk over. That's his secret. So.

B

That's right.

A

With. With Tony. I knew. I said, you know, this guy would be so insulted to go into a class, it's gonna light a fire under his belly. And I. I said. I said. I said, good luck. And he goes out and runs a 200 straight, comes back up to me. He says, how do you like that? A class? And I said, there. He's back.

B

He's coming. Tony, the good part about this is he put you in a class. And he went, yeah, he probably shouldn't even be there. That's what he was thinking, I know how that thing.

A

No, I, I was thinking, I was thinking B. But we'll bump them up a little.

C

Yeah. But anyway, back to your, back to your question.

A

How that, that gives you a little fire, though. It's like, yeah, if somebody says I can't do something or somebody doesn't think that I'm like, oh, you can't do this, or oh, you're not good enough, or oh, whatever, like that right there, the, the lack of respect, it'll, it'll bring it out.

C

But back to your question. Do I, do I have goals? So at the end of 2023, it was kind of like, or not 2023, 2013, I'd won the Grand Rings and then in Missouri, I got my Grand Slam. At that point it was kind of like, I've done everything I really thought I was going to do with this in, in my time that I had from up to 18 or 22 or whatever it was going to be. So now, now you're asking do I have goals now? Yeah, you know, I'd, I'd like to get back out there. You know, one major goal I would say is beat Jason Crouse in a shoot off because I have been in like four now with him and I can't do it apparently, which he kind of. I'm glad he won the grand last year, you know, so that made me feel better about that. But I'd like to beat Jason in a shoot off. That'd be nice. But Grand American Grand Slam would be probably one of my goals, you know, just, you know, I'd like my name called on the loudspeaker at, at night. That's. I always thought, I didn't realize, didn't realize how fun that was until it wasn't there anymore. So.

B

Yeah, there are, there are.

A

They can get back to it. I think it's you.

C

Well, I hope you're right.

A

Yeah, I, I think, I think Tony, you've, you've got a big opportunity and you're very talented. You've got the skill and the accolades, obviously, and you got the fire back. Which. The fire back, I think, I mean, and Ricky would say the drive in the fire is probably as important as anything. Don't you think, Rick? I mean, if you want.

C

Absolutely.

B

You got it. Like Tony said, you know, he, he come back, he, you know, we, we talked on the phone a little bit and you know, like Tony said, you know, he wants to come back and compete. Not just shoot, he wants not to shoot. And, and that's it takes. You got to have the fire. I mean, you can't just go out there, you know, to shoot. You can just go shoot, have fun, but if you want to win and for the people out there that, you know are like, man, I just can't get in the shootout, you know, get set some goals and. And get that fire lit, like, you know, I mean, don't get misclassified like Tony did. But, you know, it's one of those that you want to get that fire to where, hey, I want to win. And that dangling carrot all the time. And if you get it, then move that goal to something else to keep that fire going. It's tough. I mean, you know, Zach shot a long time. I've shot going on 39 years, and I. I love to compete every day. So with you coming back, Tony, that. It's. It's, you know, a goal you had, and I think you're going to do awesome.

A

Yeah, I. I look forward to seeing the success. And. And Ricky's right about being competitive. We could be flipping coins, and he'll say that heads is better than that. Tails. I mean, he's just. He's just. He's just. He's got that edge, you know, he's just. He says, I think it's a little heavier. It had some lint on that side of the coin. You know, he always wants that edge.

B

But that would be Zach.

A

It's, hey, play with the loaded deck, baby. That's the secret. But

B

you.

A

You're doing the right thing, and you. You're embracing it, and you're moving in the right direction, and is there anything you'd like to say before we get out of here, Tony? Is there anybody you'd like to thank?

C

I'd really like to thank Dave Campbell. Rest in peace. He died last fall. His wife, Sharon, Dave Dressler, Marvin Kubler, for hauling me around the country when I was a kid and prosoft real recoil systems. And last but not least, Evan Harris. And thank you guys for doing this podcast, of course, and promoting the sport. Doing a fine job, I think.

B

Well, we appreciate it, Tony. Thank you so much for that.

A

We're trying our best. I mean, it's. It's a. It's a work in progress, but it. But we stay with it, and we. We love it, and we're gonna keep you guys updated on what's going on in the trap shooting community, what's moving forward and. And where we're at, and we appreciate everyone listening. Ricky's always looking good in his trap Talk hat. So don't forget

B

we got some new merch coming out.

A

Yeah, we got new stuff coming on the pipe. It's gonna be fun, it's gonna be good. And, and we're looking forward to seeing everyone at the Grand. Remember, our shooter appreciation party is the Tuesday of the grand week. I believe that's August 4th, Ricky.

C

Yeah.

A

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty

B

sure it is August 4th.

A

August 4th. And that'll be at the conclusion of, of the. Well, not the conclusion, probably at 4:35 o' clock on, on the doubles. But we'll keep you guys updated on that. But we're gonna do some, you know, free beverages, some stuff to eat and we're gonna be doing a lot of giveaways. So if you don't have it on your calendar, it's absolutely free to attend and it's going to be a heck of a good time. And just to give back, to say thank you guys for supporting us and, and come, come by and see the store and say hi. So, so thank you so much tuning in this Friday. We'll see you next Friday. Don't forget to like share, subscribe, send your questions in and tell us where those good restaurants are because me and Ricky, we need to know, we need to know where the good food's at. So we'll see you soon, guys.

B

Good luck everyone.

A

I just love the way they're covering all the shoots across the country. The content, the pictures, what they're doing online, what they're doing on Facebook, Instagram. What do you think?

B

Yeah. Trapshot usa, it's a great magazine. They are the official magazine of our podcast and we are the official podcast of Traption usa. So we really appreciate it.

A

That's really cool. And what they got is a deal right now. If you put Trap Talk P in for the print version and Trap Talk D for the digital version, it's 19.99 for the print and 9.99 for the digital for one year. You're not going to find a better deal. So subscribe today. You won't regret it.

B

Absolutely. Thank you for all the support.

A

Hey folks, if you're wondering where you can get your merch, head on down to shop.taptalk podcast.com.

B

yes, folks, you can get hats, T shirts, sweatshirts, they even have a ladies tank, shooter's towels. We might have some new stuff coming out for the 20, 26 year. Who knows?

A

We got all the swag. Head on down to the website. Thank you so much for being Trap Talk supportive.

B

Thanks, everyone.