Trap Talk is LIVE from the Cardinal Center at the Ohio State Shoot! E182

Zach

Welcome to season four of Trap Talk,

Rick

brought to you by Craig off the choice of champions.

Zach

All right, folks, we got to talk about Johnson's furniture appliance and mattress. Jason Johnson, he's a great guy. I just seen him in the shoot off the other day. He's helping shooters out with their mattresses all across the country. Tell them about it.

Rick

Rick Johnson's furniture appliance and mattress in Witchita Falls, Texas. They will do a white glove service on Tempur Pedic mattresses right to your door or to your gun club, it don't matter. It'll help you out.

Zach

See, I need it cuz one of those RVs, they come with them little flimsy little mattresses. My neck'. I need something good to sleep on. We got to feel good, we got to shoot good. So give them a try, folks, if you're looking for the best RV bed in the industry.

Rick

Yep, that's right. You got to get a good mattress if you want to shoot. Well, we appreciate everything you do for us, Jason.

Zach

Hello, Trap Talk listeners. Zach, here we are live at the 2026 Ohio State Shoot. And we are here at our signature sponsor, Craig Off.

Rick

Craig Off Building.

Zach

We got beautiful guns behind us, beautiful guns in front of us, and the one and only Chrissy. She's here to speak with us about some new things. But Ricky, how's the week going?

Rick

It's been good, can't complain. Weather's, you know, great. Targets are good, scores are high.

Zach

Scores are high, you know. You know, Jack Knauss broke 100 in the handicap today. I seen that. That was a big deal. There's been some hundreds and doubles from a lot of great.

Rick

Yeah, I didn't get to see what the doubles was today. Yesterday was, I think there was like four or five hundreds or no, excuse me. The day before there was four or five hundreds on Tuesday, the prelim day.

John

So we only have two hundreds in

Rick

200's in right now. Well, I know Steve Maggiero Magoo from Lindenwood. He broke 100.

Zach

He's a good shot.

Greg Pink

Yeah.

Zach

And one thing I want to talk a little bit about is just the overall attendance of this shoot. I mean it is way up. We've seen yesterday like 240 more entries total between the three events. And then today, I mean it's.

Rick

I think there was 707 70ish in the handicap.

Zach

Now that's over 150 more entries than last year. And yeah, really, the back fence shootout on Friday. I think we're gonna 600 sell out.

Rick

I mean, tomorrow night I think. I think we'll have at least 600.

Zach

And so what do you think about that as far as a driving factor? I mean, we're seeing a lot of people showing up here that don't even have ata numbers. They're shooting the event on Friday, I mean, and then they're shooting the events on Saturday and Sunday because of it. I mean, do you think the back fence is pushing them to it?

Rick

I think the back fence has pushed more people on the weekend. It's just like. We'll go back. Last week was Illinois State shoot and PA State shoot, which Chrissy was at pa. I know we were at Illinois, but at PA they do the Kragh off challenge on Friday. That has grown that shoot, especially Friday. I mean, I remember when There was like 1200 entries in Friday. What was it this year?

Chrissy

I believe it was just under 900 this year, so.

Rick

Which is still good. I mean, for one event it is good and you get to win a Craig off combo. It's a. What did they give away? It was an ACA this year trap special.

Chrissy

This year the winner, you know, does have some flexibility as far as what they want.

Zach

And that's.

Rick

That's pushing.

Zach

That's a huge price. I mean, that's a $20,000 prize.

Rick

25,000.

Zach

$25,000 prize. Right. To. To show up and win on a Friday at a handicap just for shooting the right number and winning the shoot off. I mean, that's a huge draw. There's nothing else in the country like that currently. Right. I mean, that's the only event that they're giving away a combo.

Rick

Yeah, yeah. The back fence shootout. You know, they. They give away guns and stuff, but this year, I know, I tried to buy the winner's gun. They wouldn't go for it. I tried. I offered like 15,000, some belly button lint. Claire Schaefer, she wouldn't sell it, I guess.

Greg Pink

I don't know why.

Rick

But no, congratulations to Claire. That's an awesome feat. I have shot off in that Craig off challenge and it's a big deal.

Zach

It's a huge deal. And you know, to be doing that. Thank you guys for. For doing that and giving that back to the shooters and growing that. And I know, you know, PA has been a great big shoot, but right now, I mean, I think Ohio is just, you know, taking the reins as the biggest shoot in the country right now other than the grand pa.

Rick

I know this year finished out. I just saw the numbers as a six factor. So they got back up to a six. Last year they were five. And I think a lot of that

Zach

was due with weather too last year.

Chrissy

Absolutely.

Rick

The last couple years you guys have had some bad weather in pa. We have. Where? This year at Illinois State.

Greg Pink

Shoot.

Rick

We had a ton of bad weather on Sunday.

Zach

Oh my God.

Rick

And it was like we had eight tornadoes south of us. The water, there was like a foot of water in the campground. I got buried my truck, my wife did that. That's my story. I'm sticking to it. She's actually behind us, folks, and she's shaking her head and pointing her finger at me.

Zach

Trust me, folks, no, she didn't do it. If there's anything going on in my world, it's me doing it. In his world, it's him doing it. And that's okay. But. But I do want to talk a little bit about these guns in front of us. Chrissy, I thank you for coming on the show. We haven't had a chance to have you on and we've wanted to for so long. But as busy as you are, it' to nail you down. So. So tell us what's new going on at Kragoff right now. Maybe a little bit about these guns and just inform the listeners of what they need to know.

Chrissy

Yeah. So here we have our latest and greatest engraving pattern. So this is called the eternity. We have a few different color schemes. This one right here is our eternity blue. So it's a brand new engraving from Krieg off Germany and we are importing more into the country every day. It's a beautiful geometric pattern here. So that's our latest engraving wear too.

Rick

Yeah, I mean, you guys, you can see the, even the, the latch is that way. I mean the sides, the top latch is cool. It's got the K diamond logo on there. You know, that's pretty cool.

Zach

I love that. That's my favorite.

Rick

You know, even the, even the trigger guard folks is that way.

Zach

So is that just stainless or is that a nitride or what is that?

Chrissy

It is nitride finish.

Zach

Okay, so it's a nitride finish gun. And then what do we have here?

Chrissy

So a little bit different here. This is our new demo example of our new DLC coating. So we came out with the DLC coating. It's probably been about two years now, but still working its way into the U.S. it stands for diamond, like carbon. And it's a protective coating over the receivers and the barrels. You can get either or. But most people are tending to really like the Receiver and the barrel option. And it really helps protect the finish against rust, scratches, nicks, you know, it's very, very durable. So people with acidic hands, you know, they'll rub the bluing off.

Rick

Okay. Like my wife.

Chrissy

Like my wife and my husband. Yep.

Rick

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jody, she touches. She touches the barrel at rust. But the cool thing is with this is you can have the Kragh off logo in the diamond. Like carbon.

Chrissy

Yep.

Rick

If you can see. John, check that out.

Zach

That's pretty cool. Yeah, I do like that. So. So really, the whole idea behind this gun is to help people that have issues with rushing their belts. Because I'm notorious for that. My hands sweat when I touch it. I wipe it down with oil all the time. But at the end of the day, I've got areas of my gun that have kind of just kind of worn from my hands just touching all the time. And this coating would probably really prevent a lot of. A lot of wear and tear.

Rick

It's a. It has been proven, so it is good. It is a little upgrade. What's the upgrade? Cross.

Chrissy

Yeah, for the full receiver and barrels. It's a 1995 upgrade. 1995.

Rick

Yeah. Don't get Zach. What he said. Oh, here's a 20 keeper nickel, 20 bows.

Chrissy

Just a little bit more. But it's a good investment, especially for most of our shooters who are shooting 10, 20, 30,000 rounds a year. It really protects the gun.

Zach

So here's a question I have. Can you get this in other engraving patterns or only in this graving pattern?

Chrissy

Of course. Yeah. So you can get the DLC coating on any of our engraving patterns that do not contain gold.

Rick

Gold.

John

Okay.

Rick

Anything with. Anything with gold. If you coat it, you can't put the. Isn't it. The gold won't stay or it can pull? Yeah. There's some way. You just can't get it with the gold, so. And like, I guess you could do like a plantation scroll.

Chrissy

You could.

Rick

Interesting. Phil Krieg off, if you're listening.

Zach

Yeah.

Rick

You might have to talk.

Zach

I like the idea of that. I mean, it just. It gives it mean, more lasting power, obviously. And the other thing I kind of like about it, I'd like to see what it's like on the range, but this just seems like it's a little duller than the blue. And I feel like sometimes the reflection. Because when I shoot sometimes, like when I do, like, people talk about cleaning guns, and when I take that rim oil and I do my barrels and they're like mirrors, and I Go out sometimes and shoot that first event. They're just like reflecting. All that light in your case is

Rick

what's happening, Zach, is you're lifting your head. So that's another episode.

Zach

Yeah, we'll talk about that later.

Rick

But.

Zach

But really, I don't think you want to have too much, like, shine out there when you're looking like. No, I think that matte would almost be a little bit easier on the eyes. Going to a target and not pull your eyes back. I mean, that's not proven. But. But just thinking about it right now, I've seen reflections. Sometimes I'm like, I hate that shiny barrel look when I'm looking down the

Rick

gun, especially in the sun. Now, today we didn't have that problem in the doubles. Yeah, it was a little overcast. It was so late here. But that's because they' many entries going on that. And this shoe just keeps growing.

Zach

I mean, it's. It's gonna get to the point where I'm like, how big can it get? Because everybody's coming, and everybody that's coming is loving it. The Cardinal center is doing a great job of running the chute. They're keeping it clean. The. The campground is immaculate. You know, obviously they've got a lot of food vendors here. They've got all the gun vendors here that are open.

Rick

That water. I mean, they got water people going down that are actually giving out bottles of water. Oh, that's nice, you know, for everybody. But, yeah, talking about, you know, there's a ton of vendors here, folks. So if you can't make it to the Grand American, where all the vendors are also come here to the Cardinal Center. You can come to the Buckeye, which is usually the first weekend in June or into May, and then you can come to the Ohio State shoot, which is usually the third or fourth week in. In June, or the Cardinal Classic, which is right after the Grand.

Zach

Yep. Hey, folks, we got to talk about 12 gauge leather works out of St. George, Utah. I just got my package in the mail. I got a brand new trap talk pouch with a holder and shelves. I got all kinds of stuff. What kind of stuff you got, Ricky?

Rick

I got the same. Got the initials on there. Nice four box holder. But the best thing is the buckle holder, folks. That is cool. Got it stamped with initials. It's awesome.

Zach

I love that buckle holder. We can. I'm hanging that right behind me. When we do podcasts. That's a great gift for Christmas. I mean, think about everybody hanging their buckles up. And, you know, these Guys pretty well, right, Rick?

Rick

Yeah, I actually did lessons at Livermore with them here at the beginning of the year with Jared and his son Carson. There's a nice little pick of of us there. And as you can see, it was a little cold in California, but great folks. They support trap shooting, they support trap talk. Help.

Zach

If you need some leather stuff, give them a try, and we'll see them at a shoot near you soon. Hey, folks, I got to give a quick thank you to integrated companies out of Utah. They're a great company. They support trap shooting and they support trap talk. Ricky, tell them what they do.

Rick

They do about anything you can imagine for all businesses of all size. But they do insurance, hr, payroll taxes, accounting. But we would like to thank Terry and Flynn Paulson for supporting us. We really appreciate it.

Zach

Absolutely. If you're a business owner in the trap shooting community and you like supporting brands that support trap. Support integrated companies out of Utah. You know, Rick, I was at the Autumn grand and the Nevada State shoot, and I was just really impressed with how I could see where my squad was when I was up. Just the technology, the ability to be able to see what options I've played if the event's paid or not. I mean, what's your experience with. With the app?

Rick

Listen, SOS Clay's app. It's the best thing out there, folks. You can see everything. It's great. You see your option payouts. You can see when you're up, you can see who's paid on your squad. Sometimes Zach doesn't pay on time, but it's.

Zach

I get out there. But what I really think is, is for gun clubs, it's free. Call Greg. Get a hold of him. He'll set you up. He'll get you running. Right? And if you pay the. The premium once a year, you get free pre squatting in all the shoots. And that's the best value in trap shoot.

Rick

Absolutely. SOS clays.com and. And they're doing a lot of good stuff here. But Craig off's here at all three shoots. The Bucke, the Ohio State, and the Cardinal Center. But listen, if you need any service done, you can get it done here. It's gonna be tough this week because the gunsmiths are backed up, you know, Philly and Matt, you know, between showing up late. No, they don't show up late, but between them being booked. But get your service in for the grand.

Zach

Yeah, that's important.

Rick

Call Janine. Get ahold of Chrissy. Call in. They gotta.

Zach

If you're gonna get Your service done. I mean, this is something that you should plan ahead because you know you need to get it done. You don't want to be one of those last minute people like me that comes in and says, hey, I didn't make an appointment. Can you fit me in? You know, there's only so many people that can get away with that. You have to remember that, folks. Okay, so.

Rick

So I'm on the schedule and I can prove it. Where's the schedule?

Zach

He just writes his name.

Rick

We are. Tyler and I are on the schedule. But.

Zach

Yeah, but for the grand coming up, I mean, I know that's a busy shoot. I mean, obviously they have more gunsmiths there than here, but between the two of them, get your stuff in advance. If you know you need to get done. Don't try to be a walk in, because then you might be like, oh, can I get it for the next. And it might not happen so well.

Rick

And one thing too, with, with these shoots and, and Craig off being here, as you can see behind us, folks, these are all demo guns. This is a demo gun. This not a demo gun.

Zach

This is no demo.

Rick

This is new. This is probably going in my safe, but that's another story. But you could come here and demo any gun from Parkour. Parkour X Sporter acs, a pro sporter trap special. Do we have a top single here? So a top single trap special. You know, the unsingle to demo, folks.

Zach

So, yeah, I think, I think it's important before you purchase any big thing. Yes. That you figure out that you're gonna like it. Now, I love my gun. I wouldn't shoot anything but it. But honestly, it's good to come out and say, well, what configuration do I want? Do I want 30s? Do I want 32s? Do I like the end single? Do I like the top single? Do I want parkour? Do I want Parkour X? Like at the end of the day, sport, you have to start feeling the thing out. Because when you feel it, you're like, okay, based on the way I move the gun, the way I mount the gun, the way I see the targets, this fits me better. Because everyone always asks us on the show, well, what gun do I buy and why? Well, okay, if you're 5, 5 and 150, you might not want to shoot the same gun that the 6, 4, 3, 30 guy shoots, right? So, you know, between barrel lengths, between configurations, stock fit, all of that stuff matters, every little thing. And everybody just says, well, I want to shoot the gun that this guy Shoots well, not everybody's built the same.

Rick

No.

Zach

Not everybody has the same fit.

Rick

And that's one of the things, you know, Kriegoff does have the true left handed and true right handed stocks for the trad specials, for even the, the number six for the acs.

Chrissy

Yep.

Rick

You know, so there is that. But you do want to come demo guns. That's how we did with, with Tyler. We demoed it here three years ago and I had a trap special picked out for him and he shot it. Okay. But he shot the ACS better. And I'm like, that's the thing. And that's where I get so many customers that get, oh, this is what I want. Then they shoot it and they struggle.

Zach

Yep.

Rick

Because they didn't demo at first.

Zach

So that's what you want versus what's gonna work best for you are not always the same exact. You have to like, unless we're talking scroll pattern, everything else needs to be like, not based on what you think, but with what works well for you and coming out to demo. So to piggyback on that, if somebody walked in here now what's the process to demo? What do they got to give you? Like, what's that look like?

Chrissy

Yeah, sure. So it's really simple. We have all of our models here, even some flat rib, you know, sporting models. Like I said, everybody's different. You got to find what works for you. So all we need is a driver's license and we'll set you up. We have adjustable combs and all of our K80 models and K20 models now actually left and right handed stocks as you said. So we'll pick out what works best for you. You can try, you know, trap special, then come back acs, then come back unsingle and just kind of go from there. You know, we'll fit you up to it. It's pretty simple process, but it's, it's a great opportunity to try out all

Rick

of our different offers and the practice traps right out here.

Chrissy

Just right in front of us.

Rick

Right out right here, folks. So come here to the Ohio State shoot. Actually, you know, Ohio State shoes can be over probably, but guys come to the Cardinal Classic. They're doing a lot of good things at that shoot.

Zach

Cardinal Classic is great. I know they're giving away silver, they're giving away a lot of money. It's going to be a really cool time. Ron Prescott from Midstate Precious Metals, he's helping out with that. So big shout out to him for supporting and supporting us. But you know, at the end of the day, if you're gonna get into the world of saying, I want to get my forever gun, try some stuff out.

Rick

That's right.

Zach

Like, try some stuff out and figure out what you like and get your configuration, because this is one of those things that I recommend you try before you buy, because then you're like, okay, I really like this. I really like this setup. And it's worth the trip. This is one of the greatest facilities in the country. Yeah. I brought my dad out here. This is his first time here, and he woke up, and he says, oh, my God. It's like. It's like a grant. It's like. It's incredible. And then he seen the sporting clays down there. I just went for a drive with Shelby on the cart, and we went down and seen the sporting clays and the skeet fields and all that stuff, and I'm like, this place has got it all. I mean, if you wanted to throw a really big chute, yeah, you could do it here. I mean, for sure.

Rick

They do so much stuff here, but not alone. Just the guns demoing. They've got clothing options. You want to get choke tubes. You need all the accessories. I kind of like that.

Zach

Sunglasses.

Rick

Zach, he's into the sunglasses.

Zach

I'm trying to get these sunglasses. I already got a hat out of them, but I'm thinking these look good. Yeah, these might be my new beer goggles, but we'll see.

Rick

But we got, you know, the top latches, trigger guards, triggers, choke tubes. Everything you can imagine. If you don't want to get it shipped to you, you're here. Pick up a shirts, hats, the whole works. Folks, listen, listen, listen, listen.

Chrissy

Okay, so, to your point, we will not be at the Cardinal Classic this year.

Rick

Oh, you won't, unfortunately.

Zach

All that lead up for this, I just got shot in the heart.

Chrissy

We will be at sctp, which is a great time to come out. No pressure on the trap line. You know, you can demo as much.

Rick

And that's in July.

Chrissy

That's it is second or third July. Yep. Yep.

Rick

Chrissy just hurt me by saying she's

Zach

not gonna pay the cardinal.

Chrissy

I'm sorry. But you're forgiven, Chrissy, this year so you can come out and see us.

Zach

Well, I think that's important, too, because how many young shooters don't have the opportunity to demo? And they don't always come to the big shoots like this. So, you know, like, when we rolled in here on Monday and we were parking our RVs, there was all these SCTP people and they were like, is there a shoot next week? And we're like, yeah, the biggest state shoot in the country. And they're like, in their mind, they've got the blinders on. They have no idea this is going on. And that SCTP is the thing. Like, little Johnny just broke a 192. And they're like, yeah, he's dialed in. And I'm like, that's great. But their world is this world. They're not looking wide. They're not looking and seeing well, there's Las Vegas, there's Sparta, there's Ohio, there's Florida, there's all these other places. They're just thinking sctp. And so if you don't open up for it, I think that's a huge disadvantage to a lot of manufacturers that don't come and sell, support the kids. Because they're like, well, the kids aren't gonna buy anything. Well, I don't. I think they're the ones that are gonna buy the guns and have them forever and use them and have that brand loyalty, because once they get something they like, they're gonna stick with it.

Greg Pink

Yeah, yeah.

Rick

So come demo, and if you need something, call me. I'll get you hooked up with a gun.

Zach

Ricky's got it.

Chrissy

He's gotta call me.

Zach

Yeah, yeah, call Chrissy. So, Chrissy, is there anything else new going on or anything else that you want to report to our listeners? You know, because we haven't had you on ever. So, I mean, what's upcoming?

Chrissy

Well, you know, we're looking forward to the grand. We have all three big national tournaments coming up, so the grand for Trap, of course. That's always a good time. We're there for the whole two weeks. Then we'll have National Sporting Clays, and before right in between, we'll have the World Ski Champions. Yeah. So we have a busy couple months coming up. Remember to schedule your service, and that's. That's important. You know, we have seen the. The uptick in attendance just through our service.

Rick

Yeah, I know. Matt. Matt and Philly. Matt and Philly are keeping busy. They are, they are. So if you want your gun service, they accept tips.

Chrissy

Good shout out. But anyway, you know, thank you guys for. For what you do for the brand. It's been great watching the show grow and excited. I finally had a chance to get on it.

Rick

We appreciate it. We'll have you on. We're going to come out to Craig off. We got to get Mr. Kragoff on and Alex. And then by chance, we Might end up in Germany. And Ulm to see Phil.

Zach

Hey, if there's anybody offering Germany and some beer and some. Some French fries with some mayonnaise, I'm in on that. Like, I know they get down on the mayonnaise French fries over there. Dieter's probably pounding them down and. And I mean, I'm. I'm about that. So. We'd love to go. I don't know if we're gonna get an invitation after that.

Greg Pink

We.

Rick

We've. Well, let me rephrase that. I've got an invitation.

Zach

Work on it. Listen, listen, listen. I need to go to Germany. We've already been to Dubai.

Chrissy

Now it's time.

Zach

Goes to Germany.

Rick

That's right, we will.

Zach

I mean, European nation. I mean, why not? We could take John Tish. I mean, bring them all.

Rick

We'll go.

Zach

So. So I love that you guys got these new guns. I love that you guys are here. Open. This is a fantastic shoot. And you go into the grand. We've got the contact point for getting something scheduled. Is that you? Is that the website? Is that, like, what's the way that people need to actually, like, do that if they want to take advantage of that?

Chrissy

The most efficient way is going to be our. Through our website, kriegolf.com. we have a little tab on there. You can sign up for service, request your date, all that good stuff. You can always call us Kriegoff International. We're in Knoxville, Pennsylvania headquarters. But just call the number and ask for service and we can get you scheduled, too.

Rick

And be nice to Janine.

Chrissy

That's right.

Zach

You gotta be nice. Everybody wants good service. They gotta be nice.

Rick

That's right. Be nice to. To Janine.

Zach

Be nice to everybody. But I'm just excited to be here. This is a great time. We got the back fence tomorrow, which you'll be listening to this. It's already happened and done. We've probably set another record, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm just excited to see what this thing is about. I can't believe the attendance. I can't believe everything we're seeing here. This is awesome. If you're not in Ohio market for your calendar in 2027, you got to get down here, get a camping spot, get a hotel, get a plane, whatever you got to do. Make your way out here. Because this place is awesome. I mean, I'm loving it for sure.

Greg Pink

And.

Zach

And we got a lot of good targets left to shoot.

Rick

Yes.

Zach

We got a lot of events ahead of us, so we're Gonna see what's going on. But Ricky, is there anything I'm missing?

Rick

You're always missing something, but I think he's okay.

Zach

Right now, the merch.

Rick

Today we're wearing Craig off gear because

Zach

we're in the Craig off brand title

Rick

sponsor and they're Zach and I sponsor also.

Zach

But if you want to wear a trap dog hat, we won't hate on you. So wear that. Wear the hat.

Rick

We got your Craig off merch too, folks.

Chrissy

Yeah, Come see me for some hats.

Zach

We've got new towels at the grand coming out. We've got special stuff that you guys are going to see.

Rick

Swing by the cool new shirt for the Grand.

Zach

Oh, you're.

Rick

And then I won't let the cat out of the bag. But we do have a special item that's going to be limited edition that the proceeds from that. Stay tuned. We'll tell you later.

Zach

We'll tell you. We'll just. We like keeping things under the hat, if you will. But that being said, we will have our listener appreciation party on August 4th, probably 4:35 o'.

Greg Pink

Clock.

Zach

Hot dogs, a little bit of sudsies and some waters and giveaways and who knows what we're giving away. We got all kinds of stuff we're giving away. I mean, John tells us we got buckets of it. So if you're a sponsor and we haven't called you yet, get ready, you're going to get a call. We'll see you soon. All right, guys, we got Chrissy out of here. What a great amount of information.

Rick

Yes.

Zach

Don't forget to set up your annual services at the Grand. But me and Ricky, we got more to say. We don't just get off quickly. We just keep going. We're rolling and we got a lot to recap. So, you know, really, Rick, I want to start with Vernal. And I mean, I know we've traditionally talked a lot about, like, who won this and who did that, but this year I just want to talk about the experiences. I want to talk about, you know, how it went for you, you know, what people can expect when they go to Vernal, what type of club. Like, let's just talk about more of the stuff that's going on instead of who won. Because, I mean, everybody can look who won. So. Yeah, I mean, you know, Rick, I. I know you've had a lot of involvement with them since the beginning, since they started. But I really love the way that the shot tracker, you know, catches the doubles from shot to shot with the looping you know, tell the folks what they need to know about that system.

Rick

It's the best system out there. It's like having a coach on the end of your barrel, like we say, but going especially in doubles, from first shot to second shot. You can see it on the graph. You can see it on video.

Zach

Yeah, I mean, if you talk about that J hook with Sean, Holly and all them, I mean, it'll literally show that loop and I think that's really powerful if you' doing it. They've supported the show since the beginning. They love trap shooting. They're great people. Give them a shot, folks. They make a great product.

Rick

Take game technologies.

Zach

Hey, Rick, we got to take a second. We got to thank Outlaw engineering and the Fren family for supporting trap shooting and supporting trap talk podcast. They've been here for us. They're great people, you know. You know them real well, Rick.

Rick

Yeah, I. I've known Randy since 1988. R2 and. And the family, they're great supporter of the show coupe just won the autumn grand handicap champion championship with a 97.

Zach

I know, I was there. I got to interview him. It was great. I was so proud of him. He's doing a great job. Hashtag, where's Coop? He's somewhere with that big buckle. He's having fun.

Rick

So that's.

Zach

You need anything engineering related, get a hold of Outlaw. They'll take great care of you. Great folks.

Rick

Thanks for all the support. Outlaw.

Zach

You know, Rick, the only thing looks better than these hats we're wearing right now is a bunch of gold and silver from Ron Prescott at Midstate Precious Metal. Show them the goods.

Rick

Listen, all I got silver right now. I won't bring the gold out for

Zach

Zach, but you know, I always want to get that gold.

Rick

Shotgun shells, 10 ounce bars, folks. He could do anything for you. For all your shoot needs, give Ron Prescott a call. Midstate Precious metals dot com.

Zach

He's a great guy. Support him. He supports all the shoots. He supports Trap Talk. If you're thinking gold or silver, you need to be thinking Ron Prescott at Midstate Precious Metals. Thank you, Ron.

Rick

That's right. Thanks for all the support.

Zach

You know, Rick, I just love having the peace of mind of knowing that if I'm traveling or I'm flying, something happens. I can get my winig and my Kragoff replaced quickly and easily without costing me a bunch of money.

Rick

Yeah, exactly. The gun and trophy insurance. It's the best out there to insure your guns, insure your trophy, animals, everything.

Zach

Thank you to the whole cushman. Family for supporting the show and everything they do for trap shooting.

Rick

Absolutely. Get a hold of Cole Cushman and he'll get you set up. Going to Vernal, it's a great shoot. But the best part about Vernal, though, is winning because of the gold that they give away on Vernal.

Zach

Well, that's, you know, that is the

Rick

biggest part that, you know, Craig and Sharon Hart give out a ton of gold coins there, you know, courtesy of going through mid state precious metals, you know, Ron Prescott. So. But, you know, Vernal. I've been going to Vernal every year. I missed a couple, but it's a great shoot. There's so much to do out there. You know, you can go fishing. There's several lakes around there. You go sightseeing, you know, you're just going into town. There's, you know, different things to do in Vernal, but you know, the club, it's like a small little club with a big heart. They throw great targets. Sean Holly throws some of the best targets in the country. The scores are always great out there. The target's always good. It's always a good time. I enjoy it because been going there a long time and, you know, Tyler seems to shoot well out there.

Zach

Yeah, there's a lot of people that shoot really well out there. And I think it has a big thing to do with the higher altitude. And I think, Sean, setting the targets. I mean, you set a good target.

Rick

Yeah.

Zach

And you have a little bit of a higher altitude, a little bit of a thinner air, the consistency. And I don't know if it holds the patterns together better or if the targets just fly a little bit cleaner or whatever it is.

Rick

You know, that western. That western target is a. Is a great target.

Zach

You know, it really is. It really is. But. But here's something that I want to talk about because I was there and I had a lot of people ask me this question, and I wanted to ask it to you because as always, you shoot fantastic there. You know, you. You've been known as one of the guys that consistently wins every time you show up to Vernal. So when people are approaching the hill, specifically because we're talking About Vernal, there's 1, 2 and 3. Which 1 and 2 are up on a hill and it's more like a horseshoe, and then you're coming down and you're hooking around into the gun club. What would you tell the people that have never shot it? Like, what's the advice for shooting on the hill versus down and below. Like, is there anything you're doing differently up there or anything?

Rick

You're not one thing. The. The biggest thing is people worry about aesthetics, background, all that stuff. Yes, the. The targets do get affected more on one and two, but there's been years at vernal where all week long shooting on 1, 2, or 3. I broke 25 straights in. In singles, handicap or 50 strikes of doubles up there and missed down where they say easier traps or whatnot, but it's just the way the club's built because that's how they had to build.

Zach

Well, obviously, you know, so obviously, the only thing I notice is like. Like you said, the background is a little bit different when you're on the hill because you're looking back and you can kind of see everybody. The camping spots. You can see, like, a lot of moving things.

Rick

Oh, you see the cars driving in,

Zach

everything versus where you come around to 6, 7, 8, 9. You're shooting into a, you know, a flat, clean background. Yeah. You know, like a Livermore or like anywhere else where it's just kind of a hillside that you're shooting into and it's. It's clean. But I think what I experience more than the. The background difference is down on the hill, I don't feel like the targets are affected as much by the wind when they're. When we're down on the lower side versus up in that canyon. It reminds me of Sunnyvale, where they're going up, they're going down. And I guess if you're dealing with a target that's over a canyon and there was a lot of movement, I mean, what's the best way to do that? I mean, some people say, do you shoot them faster?

Rick

I don't shoot them slower. Change anything. This is the problem exactly where people. They want to try to change something because. Oh, I know. Just look at the target. The targets can get a little affected more. But here's the one thing. With 1 to 2, you see the target a lot longer. Well, yeah, the hill going down. I mean, I've told people. I'm like, hey, if you're not on, just wait. So it is one of those. Come out experience vernal. It's a great shoot. Sean throws great targets. You know, this year was great. We had great weather the whole time.

Zach

Well, we did. And what I really liked about it was it's been a couple years since I went. The last time I went was Covid. And then now I came back again, and, like, I've seen the advancements in the shoot. Just, you know, you go away from something for four or five years, then you come back, you're like, oh, the night shoots. Yeah, that's a big deal. I mean, the miss, they do that.

Rick

They do the Annie Oakley's now and the missing out stuff there. No missing outs anymore. It's just the Annie Oakley style, you know, vernal. But it's a great time. You know, like I said, they give away a bunch of money. The trophies are awesome there. They do a cornhole tournament on this year was on Tuesday night and my son Tyler and his partner draw a partner deal. They won again. So Tyler's won, I think out of the five years or four years he's played in it. He's won it three. He's only lost it one time.

Zach

He's a cornhole specialist.

Greg Pink

He is.

Rick

And he's been fortunate to have a good partner, I guess. But, you know, they do those events, you know, they've got. I think they did a ladies bingo this year.

Zach

Yeah, I seen that. And the one thing that I want to say that work turned out really well and just to give him a big thank you is Dave Manziel did that shrimp boil that one night, and that was fantastic. So thank you so much for doing that, Dave. And everybody that pitched in, I mean, we went over there and we were playing cards. It was me and Wyatt and Barrett and Jerry port in the clubhouse and they said, hey, the shrimp boil's done. We come walking around and there's these two big tubs. They've got crawfish in one and they had shrimp in the other. You know, corn, mushrooms, sausages, all the stuff. And they had all the guys that took time to prep it, to season it, to boil it, to do it, and to feed everybody there. And you know, there's not many times when I'm quiet, folks, but when I was eating those shrimp, I didn't have anything to say. So, you know, we're just. We were just pounding them down and drinking beer and it was a good time. And you know, it's little things like that. That one are good memories, two bring everybody together. But three, somebody has to step up or a group of people have to step up to make that kind of stuff happen. And we appreciate it.

Rick

Yeah. And you know, thanks in another shout out to Dave Mansell for doing that. And you know, because it does bring a lot of people together. You know, the only other shoots that really, that does food all the time is of course, Nevada State Shoot yeah. Which is coming up here in, you know, October.

Greg Pink

So we're looking.

Zach

Yeah, I know that. I know the pre Squad is opening July 15th. If you're not thinking about doing it, you better think about it. You better get on the pre squad, you better get a hotel because stuff's selling out quickly from what I hear.

Rick

I think RVs are already full.

Zach

I mean everything is, is, is there. And I know we're at another back fence shootout that we're doing in Nevada this year, which last year was a success. This year I think it's going to be more of a success because people seeing it and they're like, wow, I didn't know I could do that. This is what I want to do and let's get it on and do it. And I'm like, oh yeah, why not? Why wouldn't you take advantage of this opportunity to shoot and have some fun and get some, you know, some trophies and everything. So, you know, reminded me of how fun Vernal was and it's going to be. It's like hard not to go when you miss it. It's like it makes you feel, you're like, man, I really want to go to Vernal this year. And when I.

Rick

You got to put it on your list.

Zach

Trust me.

Rick

It's a shoot to hit every year. You know, we left Vernal, you know, drove home. Tyler and I had to drive to Wisconsin, do a one day class. And then Tyler wanted to go on a trip to go to a couple baseball games. So we went up to Toronto to watch the Blue Jays and the Yankees play. And that was a fun trip. Got them from there. And then we headed to Illinois State.

John

Shoot.

Zach

Yep. Which we all went to Illinois. And you know, Illinois is another one of those midwestern jewel gun clubs. And you know, we talk about pristine background from Field 1 to Field 12. There's no change in the background at Illinois. You cannot get a different. No, like if you just spun you around and stuck, ya said, what bank am I on? If you took the numbers off, you're not going to know what bank you're on. Because if you're looking out in front of you, you've got green, it's pristine, it's flat, it's perfect. And they've been throwing targets there for a very long time. Lauren and her family know how to put a target.

Rick

Family. You know her grandpa, Larry Moore, I knew Larry and you know, he built a beautiful facility to just host a couple shoots a year and it turned out, you know, great.

Zach

Yeah, the only thing that was an issue this year was the weather. I mean, really, normally you go to Illinois and it's. It's blue bird sky, wonderful weather, you know, perfect everything all week long. And this week it rained, and I mean, it rained a lot, and it was windy a lot. Like, a couple days we were getting blown around, and everybody that was shooting really bad, they're like, man, maybe I can start eating a little more, because you guys look like you're pretty stable out there.

Rick

And I said I wasn't very stable, I can tell you. On Wednesday, we didn't get there till Tuesday night. So we started shooting. We usually shoot on Tuesday. Shoot those. The handicapping doubles. And Wednesday we went out first thing right away in the morning, doubles, and it was blowing 45, 50.

Zach

It was horrible.

Rick

It was bad. I mean, folks, I'm gonna tell you, it was bad. And my son stood right next to me and broke a lone hundred in the doubles.

Zach

It was a good.

Rick

And I was like, wow. And he was high by two. You know, I broke a 98. I know. Ditto broke a 98 that day, but it was crazy. But the targets still were good targets, and that kind of went well.

Zach

Yeah.

Rick

And. And you.

Zach

You didn't miss anything by missing Tuesday, because I shot Tuesday, guys. And.

Chrissy

And.

Zach

And to tell you, Tuesday was as windy or windier than Wednesday. It was. I mean, he wasn't there for Tuesday, but Tuesday, blue and blue and blue. And it was like, wow.

Rick

And it was such a good shoot. It was well ran. Targets were great as usual, you know, with the weather. And here's the thing, you know, Sunday, it was kind of crazy. We got that. We shot the doubles championship in the morning right away, and we got done with that. And then we started the handicap, and we were first out, and it started raining a little bit, and as soon as we were done, I think we were done, what, maybe 10 minutes, and

Zach

it let loose, it cut, and sky broke open, and hell came out. It was horrible.

Rick

It rained so much, and you could see we might have to throw up some videos. I know Barrett debris was up on top of his camper, and he took a video in between our campers. There was a small pond about a foot deep of water. And then when we go to leave, I get stuck, and I had to get pulled out. It was a little crazy, but people were getting stuck left and right and that. And that's. That's just part of the deal.

Zach

It's part of it.

Rick

But.

Zach

But what was crazy about Sunday is we started the handicap. And we got through the first 50 birds.

Rick

Oh, yeah, that's right. Zach didn't get finished. No, I did.

Zach

He got finished. We didn't because we had a trap breakdown.

Rick

Yeah, we need to go.

Zach

We had 20 shots to go. And they pulled us off the the line because the lightning came in and they're like, okay, it's too close. And so. So literally, we had like a three and a half hour break of time before when we got pulled off the line until we went back out.

Greg Pink

Yeah.

Zach

And that really pushed everything.

Rick

But we got lucky because a few years ago to Illinois, they didn't get it in. They had to finish on Monday. And this year, it looked like the weather was gonna keep.

Zach

It was gonna be like that.

Rick

And it broke. But that was the thing. I know there's a lot of people when these things happen, they get mad. I'm the first one. When it a lightning in the area, I'm gone. If it's 20 miles, I'm out of there. I don't know what the actual.

Zach

I don't want to be there anywhere with that lightning and that lightning stick. I don't need that.

Rick

What the actual rule is or what the ATA is going by. Like, I'll find that out. Danny Ryan's here at the Ohio State shoot.

Zach

I'll ask Danny. Ask Danny.

Rick

But you know, honestly, I. I've heard of people, you know, getting struck by lightning at 28 miles. So we're holding a lightning rod in our hands.

Zach

Don't need that.

Rick

A shotgun in your hand.

Zach

Craig off lightning rod. The best shotgun lightning rod there is. But that being said, why would you want to risk it? I mean, it's just a sport. We love the sport and we're out there having a good time, but if you could die because of it, I mean. Okay, I'm out on that. I just rather say, hey, we got to shoot on Monday. We shot on Monday. And they had to do that at Florida. I remember it was Southern grand last

Rick

year, but we shot off on Monday. But here's the thing. Like here at the Ohio State shoot, you know, we're supposed to have some weather tomorrow.

Zach

Yep.

Rick

Come in. And possibly the back fence shootout. We'll see. It is what. It's just rain, so that's fine. Not no problem. But lightning. And that's what it was. This storm was so bad in Illinois last week, last Sunday. And then we leave. We get through. Tyler was in a shoot off for Junior Gold hoa and he won that shoot off. And then we jumped in the truck pulled the fifth wheel, and we headed over here. And Charlie Stone and Magoo followed us. And Charlie calls me. We're getting ready to go through F and M. He says, hey, my dad said the weather's pretty bad. And I was like, yeah, but if it backs up, we're stuck here for

Zach

five or six hours. Yeah.

Rick

So let's just keep rolling. And I'll just say when I got there, the fifth wheel's clean.

Zach

Don't need to washy wash anymore. No problem.

Rick

It was smooth, right? It poured for, like, three straight hours.

Zach

Yeah, I. I was. I. I know you guys were laughing. You didn't leave. And I said. I looked at that storm, and I said, I'm gonna be stuck in this thing all the way to Ohio and drive at night. And we don't shoot on Monday anyway. Start shooting on Tuesday. Yeah. So I just woke up in the morning, and I had dad following us in the. In the fifth wheel. And I said, let's just get up on the road. And we got on the road at 6am and made the drive, and we didn't have a drip of rain. We didn't have an issue at all. It was really, really perfect, except for

Rick

the construction where you guys got stuck in.

Chrissy

Yeah.

Rick

You were in the right lane instead of listening to me.

Zach

That was only 15 minutes. Really. It wasn't a big deal. But other than that, I mean, we made it in seven hours with fuel and everything, and it was a clean drive from Illinois. And there's a lot of people that hit Illinois, and then they parlay over here to Ohio. And, you know, we got started, and I think, you know, day one here, Tuesday, that was probably the windiest day, don't you think?

Rick

Yeah, it was windy on Tuesday. We didn't. I didn't shoot the same. I know Joey did. Joey wanted to shoot everything. So Joey shot the singles. I think he shot with his dad. And then, of course, we shot handicapping doubles. And it was myself, George Lee jumped on our squad, and then Joey and Justin, because Barrett and Tyler and Wyatt actually went golfing on Tuesday with Nate Oswalt. And, you know, shout out to Nate. He took them to two of the nicest country clubs for golf in the state of Ohio, and they had a blast. They played 36 holes on Tuesday. So yesterday, Tyler was a little tired after playing 36, but, you know, Tuesday was a great day. You know, Joey Brooke, a lone eight in the caps on Tuesday, had a hundred in the doubles.

Greg Pink

Yep.

Zach

There was four hundreds in the doubles, I think.

Rick

Yeah. And then yesterday, you know, we had the hunter. The Ohio State shoot always starts their HOA with 100 handicap, 100 singles, 100 handicap. So if you have a good first day, usually got a pretty good lead going in the second day with the. With the double hand.

Zach

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And this is, in my opinion, this is known as more of a handicaps focus State shoot. I mean, they have a lot of handicaps here. Yeah, but this is the best paying handicaps in the country. I mean, you're breaking 25s here. You're making 50, 80, $100 on a 25. You made a lot on yours.

Rick

What was it, 300 on Tuesday, folks, here, I broke the loan. 25 on the third draft.

Zach

305 bucks.

Rick

$305.

Zach

Yeah. I was like, hey, yeah, but that was on a windy day, right? On a windy day, that'll happen. But like on today, it was pretty bluebird and, you know, 80. 80 bucks for 100, for 25. Pretty damn good.

Rick

Jack broke the lone 100. There was a 98, but I think Jack got 5,500.

Zach

Right.

Greg Pink

At 5.

Zach

It's a good thing. I mean, really, if. If you're into shooting and having a little bit of skin in the game and shooting for money, this is one of the best last shoots where people play it consistently and when you hit something.

Rick

Well, yeah, it's just everything here with the Ohio State shoot, it's a great facility.

Zach

You know, Austin, who's.

Rick

Who's run the facility now here at the Cardinal, he does an awesome job.

Zach

Absolutely.

Rick

We've been doing a bunch of promotion for the Cardinal Center. You know, they got ski trap, sporting, they got bunker, they got pistol rifle. I mean, they do everything here.

Zach

And what I. My favorite is the camping. I mean, where do you have the abundance of camping that's as quality as this? I mean, you have, well, full hookups, 50amp, whatever you need. Right. And then when you go down in that back area, it's like you're at a koa. I mean, with the trees and all the other stuff, it's really quiet. It's really nice. It's. It's surreal looking. And now they've got the pool, they've got the playground, they've got the pond, They've got all that stuff.

Rick

Everything else here, the pool, the pond for fishing, for kids, you know, they got a. What is that? The bouncy mat over there? That's, you know, Justin Debris and Chris Vendel.

Zach

That's after I was dropped off one day.

Rick

But you also have the legacy, the restaurant on the complex. You also have a laundromat on the complex.

John

Absolutely.

Rick

There's gas stations right there. There's the car wash.

Zach

If you come here, you get a golf cart. You can literally go from the restaurant to the, to the clubhouse to all through the camping to your trap and then to the suds to wash your clothes. And you don't even need to help in your car. You literally do everything right here. You don't have to leave the complex ever for anything. They'll feed you good, they'll take care of you. I mean, this is, this is trap shooting mecca. Like this is what we love about trap shooting is here. And you know, I do want to get more technical because every time I walk down the line, people ask me technical questions. They say, Zach, when are you guys going to talk about this? When are you guys going to talk about that? What do you think about the size of the houses here? I've had several people approach me on that. I know they're a bigger house, but are you changing anything or looking at anything when you look at this house?

Rick

Same old points. I don't change stuff. That's. That's the biggest thing that people do is they change. And when you change something, something else is going to change too.

Zach

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, but here, you know, as far as what they're doing right now, they're on a system where you pre squat and you can pretty much get the banks.

Rick

So here this year for the first time, shout out to Greg Pink, SOS Clays show sponsor, Shameless plug for. For Greg and SOS but so this is their first year doing the, the cashiering, the whole system here at the

Zach

car, the whole thing.

Rick

You know, shout out actually to, you know, Bob Stewart from RJ Stewart. He retired and Bob was here years, years 20 and did an awesome job. And he's getting ready to close down his website that has a lot of good records and stuff on it, some cool stuff. But with Greg coming in and doing this this year, you got to get on and preach. God where you wanted. Where in the past. You just sent in and said, here's where I want to be. Bank 1, 2 or 3, bank 4 or 5 or 6, bank 7, 8 or 9 or bank 10, 11, 12.

Zach

Yep.

Rick

And what do you want? Do you want time preference or bank preference?

Zach

Yep.

Rick

And that's how they did it. So they just drove out where this year they let everybody just get on and it was kind of a free for all.

Zach

Yeah.

Rick

And when we pre Squatted, actually, I think I called Justin and Joey and said, you guys got to do it. I was in an airplane, so I was texting them and Shelby ended up doing some of it. And then I landed and jumped on and did a couple of. But it is cool with S.O.S. you know, get on. Be a premium member is free pre squatting.

Zach

Absolutely. And I like being able to do that. But I also see the other side of the coin. I know I've talked with a couple of the directors here and they've said they're really going to push for doing a randomized banking next year to where you get your squads and you just. You just. They're doing. At the Cardinal Classic for sure. But I think next year you're going to get your numbers and then it's going to be a bank draw every day so that everybody's going to shoot from side to side. And that's what they said they're going to do. Who knows if it actually goes through 100% well, but the, the. Yeah.

Rick

The state shoot is. Is ran by the Ohio directors, the Buckeye, and the Cardinal Classic is ran by Austin.

Zach

Absolutely.

Rick

That's who decides that. So that. That's kind of a deal. I. I think you're going to have pros and cons to that.

Zach

Absolutely.

Rick

Of, you know, people. You. What's going to happen is you're going to have less squatting versus daily squatting. Yep. That's where you're gonna. And that causes. In my opinion, that causes a much bigger line inside.

Zach

Yep.

Rick

Rather than just saying. And you can make it like, hey, folks, here's. You gotta get signed up or you do it where you get the next bank in line.

Zach

Yep. That's what they do in Florida. And I think if you're gonna do it with a random draw like that, you have to do next bank in line. No matter what you walk up, this is what you get. There's no preferential on it because you'll have people that want to shoot this bank every day. And I think if it's randomized and it's fair for everybody, then that's cool because then everyone's shooting across the bank. Because I know some people, the best

Rick

thing to do if there's 12 events at the Cardinal Classic, everybody shoots whatever bank you start on. You move one to the left. The next event. Yeah, the next event. The next event. I personally think then you're going to shoot every bank.

Zach

Yeah.

Rick

That's my opinion. I've said it in Florida for years. Instead of Doing the daily draw. Because some reasons, a lot of these shoots, the daily draws done, and the people get on the same bank. The same bank, yeah. So I think that the best and the fairest deal is to say, okay, there's 12 events. You start on. On bank five, which is right out front of Craig, up right here's 5D.

Zach

You end on Bank 4.

Rick

So, yeah, your first event's on 5, your next event, 6, your next event, 7, then 8, then 9, then 10, 11.

Zach

And I think that works great. The only way you could do that, though, is if you made everybody hold their squad number. Because if we do like we do

Rick

late, middle, early, make everybody hold their squad number. That's just how it is.

Zach

Well, but I'm wondering, like, if we're squad 108 in the singles, and then we're squad two in the handicap, like, how. How does it. Well, how would that work?

Rick

You would just.

Zach

Because you got. Because if you have different people, different mixtures of people, Right?

Rick

Like, yeah, I don't agree with doing. You have to do the same number, because what that'll do. You'll lose attendance doing that.

Zach

Absolutely. I'm just trying to figure out, like, a logistical standpoint. How would you actually get a move? Because you got someone here, and then how do you keep track of the number? This guy, 108, then he's on 2, and then he's on 16. Like, at the end of the day, I think it would be really hard because a lot of people don't shoot in a squad of five. Like we do. Like we do shooting a squad of five. But if you've got random people, one over here, one over here.

Rick

See, that's where it is kind of tough. But I still like that idea myself.

Zach

I don't think it's a bad idea. I think if they could execute on that, if we could figure out a way to execute on that, I'd be all forward saying, hey, everybody shoots the banks, you know, X amount of times.

Rick

I thought it went smooth. What were the directors saying? That it didn't go so smooth?

Zach

No, they didn't say that it wasn't smooth. They just said that they've heard that from some people. They're like, well, the people that came in late, that didn't get on the pre squad and do their advance, they're stuck on this side or they're stuck on that side. And that's the whole coming late to the party thing. Right? I mean, but at the end of the day, you know, they're like, well, we're over here because we didn't get here early enough. And I'm like, well, if you pre plan and you do what you need to do, you can get where you need to go. But I think they're just saying from an even keel, you know, fairness, standpoint, if it's randomized, then everybody's kind of shooting throughout the gun club instead of saying, well, we shoot only over here or we shoot only over here. That's what I've heard.

Rick

You know what we were just talking about? How to get a shameless plug. Get over here.

Zach

Come on in.

Rick

Stand right over here.

Zach

You got to throw a hat on them.

Rick

No. You know, this is my hat. No, don't come like that. He's weird about his hat. Listen, listen. We were just talking about with S.O.S.

Greg Pink

yeah.

Rick

Being involved with Ohio now. So are they changing stuff? Are they wanting to change stuff for the pre squatting for next year?

Greg Pink

Yes.

Zach

You know, Rick, when you're riding around, your air conditioning and your nice can am and I'm walking, I'm thinking to myself, where do I get one of

Rick

these things At Big Red Motorsports, that's where you get one. George or Jason Lee, they'll take care of you, Zach.

Zach

I mean, I need one. I'm tired of riding on the back of that cooler. I want to sit inside that cab and roll around in style. I mean, my face is on the back, but help me out.

Rick

Listen, I'm going to move your face to the bumper is where it's going to get moved for the new one, okay? All you need is a little quiche and we can take care of you. But listen, Big RedMotorsports.com thanks Jason and George Lee and Big Red Motorsports for all the support. They'll take care of you folks. And it's free delivery.

Zach

You know, Ricky, I know you used it on your barrels, but you even know what RGS stands for?

Rick

No, Zach, what does it stand for?

Zach

For really good.

Rick

Well, that is true. It is good stuff, folks. I use it to clean my barrels, and it does make them shine.

Zach

Only problem is I wear white T shirts when I clean my barrels and I get them all messy, so I got to be better at that. But it gets all the plastic, all the gunk out. Give them a try, folks. They're great.

Rick

That's right. Give RGS a try. We appreciate all the support.

Zach

I just love the way they're covering all the shoots across the country, the content, the pictures, what they're doing online, what they're doing on Facebook, instagram What do you think Thing?

Rick

Yeah, Traption usa, it's a great magazine. They are the official magazine of our podcast and we are the official podcast of Traption usa. So we really appreciate it.

Zach

That's really cool. And what they got is a deal right now. If you put Trap Talk P in for the print version and Trap Talk D for the digital version, it's 19.99 for the print and 9.99 for the digital for one year. You're not going to find a better deal. So subscribe today. You won't regret it.

Rick

Absolutely. Thank you for, for all the support. Hey Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?

Zach

You know I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chucker down there, but now they got a brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day, absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't, you need to go give it a check out.

Rick

We'll all have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot

Zach

some sporting clays then 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport. Come see it. If you haven't, guys, check out them out.

John

So can you talk to us about how it's going to work?

Greg Pink

I can tell you exactly how it's going to work. And actually we're doing some testing right now during this shoot. Okay. So pre squad is going to run the same from what shooters think of. Right. But at sos, we think of it as shooter squatting.

Rick

Okay.

Greg Pink

Okay. Versus squatting with a shoot manager. Right. So what we have built into the system is that shooter squatting can carry throughout the entire shoot. It doesn't have to stop because it's on the same system, you know, shooter squatting, you know, where they used to have to shut it down, export data, import it into a different.

Zach

It's not live, it's a dead thing. It used to be dead. One thing. This is. And then they're squatting after the fact.

Greg Pink

Exactly.

Zach

You're talking about being able to live squad throughout the week in the, in the program consistently.

Greg Pink

Exactly. That's exactly right. And, and then the shoot manager does have control to close what we call closed shooter squatting. So you get within the start of event or maybe 20, 30 minutes before the event. Whenever the shoot manager wants to, you know, control things internally a little more. Yeah, they just click one button, close shooter squatting. And so now that event is closed.

Rick

Okay, shooters, so what about as far as this year to Ohio State shoot We got to pick our banks to

Greg Pink

shoot this year now. And so this is something that Ohio is implementing. Okay. Yeah. So they. They published or pre. Published banks. Okay. Yeah. Right. Yep. Okay. I think starting with the Cardinal Classic coming up, is that they're going to draw for every day. Every day.

John

And this discussion came in.

Zach

Yeah, we're right there. We're in the middle.

Greg Pink

Yeah.

Zach

So here you come.

Greg Pink

So what will happen at least as far as from a technology standpoint, is when you're pre squatting, you'll see, obviously, the squad you're on, but you won't see any bank information.

Rick

Right.

Greg Pink

Now, once the bank is determined, it'll take us 30 seconds to plug that information in, and then it automatically goes out to everybody on their app.

Rick

Okay. Okay.

Greg Pink

You'll find out and you can go right to, you know, in the app how you go into the event. You go to my squad.

Rick

Yep, yep.

Greg Pink

It'll then pop up. It'll show you where you at. It'll show you what flight you're on.

Rick

But that'll be. Are they going to do it daily or are they just going to do it?

Greg Pink

No, no, they'll do it. They'll do it whenever they, whenever they pull it for each event. Okay. So if they're going to. If they're, you know what I'm saying, or. And I don't know if they're going to do, you know, if there's three events that day. I don't know if they're going to do the morning for boom, boom, boom, probably.

Zach

And they'll do all three.

Greg Pink

The, the issue is they probably won't pull the number or determine the banks until 30 minutes before. Because here's what they're trying to do is there is. They're trying, unfortunately, bank shopping. Right. Okay. And what they're trying to do is eliminate the bank shopping. And if they would do all three events first thing in the morning.

Rick

Yeah.

Greg Pink

Their squatter cashiers would be inundated.

John

Yeah. That's what you were saying.

Greg Pink

Right.

Zach

It's a game people play because Ricky, like Ricky said, I just like getting.

Rick

I. Well, first off, I just like getting on and squatting and just squat for the whole thing. It don't matter if they're gonna do that. That's all great. The problem you're gonna have with doing it is drawing. You're gonna. You're gonna have to hire another 10 or 15 people to be in there, to cashier, to squat. More squatting than anything. Because I saw in the past with RJ Stewart Stuff is they would have four people up there in the, you know, to squad and two cashiers. Because the people are so inundated with people coming up. Is it. Oh, this. Oh, okay. I'll wait. And they would wait to get a bank. And that's the problem. I see. Versus just saying, hey. And that's what I was asking. Is it because the more people were like, we're shooting every event we got on. And I said, I'm gonna shoot on 7 and 8. And that's where.

Zach

Yeah, we're shooting 10, 11, 12.

Greg Pink

Yeah. So very valid. Yeah. Okay. But the counter to that is we're doing the back fence tomorrow.

Rick

Yeah. It's random.

Greg Pink

It's random. Yeah. And people are spending a lot of money to jump in there. Okay. It's going to be a luck of the draw.

Rick

No, I. I totally understand that.

Greg Pink

You have a percentage. Oh, yeah. Of shooters that will bank shop. It's a smaller percentage

John

until 30 minutes before the event starts.

Zach

Absolutely.

Rick

Well, that's what I would do. I would just say, hey, that. You know, and the. The.

John

And then what do you do, Rick? Do you just announce it, like, Because.

Chrissy

Yeah.

Rick

Now everybody's on the app. Yeah. It's kind of hard. That's where you're.

Zach

I don't know.

John

One is on bank seven, Squad two, bank eight. Like, how.

Rick

That's how you're gonna. You're gonna have to put. There's gonna be a lot more stuff to do with doing it that way versus having people just already getting to pick and choose. I mean, I know.

John

What was Austin's thought process behind it? Did he get too loaded on bank 7, 8, 9?

Greg Pink

Well, so at this facility here. Yeah. The banks. Nobody wants to shoot honors 1 in 12.

John

Really?

Rick

Or 1.

Greg Pink

Or 1.

John

I like.

Rick

Bank 12 is where the 100 straight was broke today.

Zach

12. 12 is probably my. One of my favorite banks here. So, I mean, some people don't like it because 12 was already taken on the first flight, so we just went.

Greg Pink

But some people don't like shooting in front of the building.

Rick

Yeah.

Zach

On that side.

Rick

1, 2, 3.

Greg Pink

1, 2, 3, and 4. So I. You know, when you have. When you can't control the backgrounds. Okay. Or they're not consistent. You know, many clubs are consistent.

Rick

One of them, one of the hundreds and doubles today was broke down on bank three.

Greg Pink

Yeah.

Rick

And that was Magoo. Steve Maggiorio. So he broke 100 down there.

Zach

the end of the day, if you put the shooters out there, if you go to randomized banks, I guarantee you the scores will not go down one bit. You're gonna have.

Rick

But you're gonna make it tougher.

Greg Pink

No, I don't think so.

Rick

I. Well, in your. In your office, you will.

John

I can.

Rick

I. I would make a. I don't think so.

Chrissy

If you. If you.

Greg Pink

If you don't. If you do it just 30 minutes before. Okay.

Rick

And it's just a communication.

Greg Pink

And the thing is, the other rule that you need to say is part of this change is once you're paid, you don't. There's no change.

Zach

You can't move. Yeah, you can't move.

Greg Pink

That's.

Rick

You got to put that in there. And then you. You need to put in there. Folks, if you're not squatted. Sorry. You're gonna take the next available bank.

Greg Pink

Yeah.

Rick

And if you come up and this is the rule that has to be implemented, which never is, because I see it happen in a lot of shoots that do this type of system is a guy walks up and gives him the cards and says, okay, you know, we'll just go, oh, no, we don't want that bank giving those cards back. Well, then you're not shooting the event. Sorry.

Zach

Yeah, yeah, you have. You can't, like, wait until it opens up. If you walk up and that's the time and you go to squad, that's what.

Rick

So my solution.

John

You close squatting.

Rick

Yeah. Well, so my whole solution to this was. And it would be tough, but is you start your first event. There's 12 events. Say you start on Bank 5, your next event, then your next event. But your squad numbers.

Greg Pink

You know, there was a very interesting club that does that.

Rick

Where's that?

Greg Pink

That'd be in Nevada.

Rick

Oh, okay.

Greg Pink

We do that.

John

Anyways, we were asking, how do you solve the problem of. I shoot late squad on the first event, so I'm squad 130, but then I'm squad 22 on the next event. So how does that parse out technology wise?

Rick

I'm a numbers guy. That don't matter. I knew that.

Chrissy

I know.

Greg Pink

Nothing's impossible.

Chrissy

Okay.

Greg Pink

And. And with the advent of AI coding and whatnot, can we. Can we get there? We can. And. And, I mean, what you'd want. You'd want that AI agent to say, oh, you just squatted for 22, and you're on, you know, 105 or the previous. Do you really want to do that?

Rick

Yeah.

Greg Pink

Can that be. Can that be built in? Yeah.

Zach

It'd almost be like a bingo sheet, too. Like, if you've got the same five guys shooting together, it would be. It would be easy to do it if it was the same five guys shooting together. But I think where you're gonna have the problem is when you have the guys that are random, like my dad, that's jumping on this squad and this squad in this squad, because you've got five guys that are jumping around, there's no way you can keep them too bank specific.

Rick

Well, you could and it would be. Have to be an AI deal. But you could say, okay, if you're. This is. You're this squad on this event. So now you're gonna pick out of this lottery and numbers for the next event.

Zach

No, you don't go there.

Rick

You don't think.

Greg Pink

What you're basically doing with the AI agent.

Rick

Yeah.

Greg Pink

Is you're. Is you're getting a personal assistant. Okay. So. And they're making sure that that shooter keeps going down and keep.

Rick

Well, no, but like John said, so like we shoot. Shoot late and then we'll shoot like first out and then first out in a three event day. So what I was saying is, okay, you're Squad 100. Just say here, Squad 100 for the first event and you're on Bank 5. Well, for bank or Squad or second event on first out. So first out, in order to shoot, you're gonna have to shoot Squad 6. If you want to be first out. Just to say to be on Bank 6 and then the next event you'd have to go, you'd better be Squad 7 and then follow in so it. I could work.

Greg Pink

You know what?

Zach

That's the end of the day.

Rick

That is a great problem. Not a me problem.

Zach

Thank God we don't have Ricky on the house.

Rick

I'll figure it out.

Zach

You just won't like that path.

Rick

No, I think honestly, Rick could be

Zach

on Bank 8 every day again.

Rick

No, I would like it. No, I would. I think if we could do that in a shoe and you start. Hey, I started on bank one today. My last events on big 12.

Zach

Yeah. The only shoots that I've seen that happen. And this is this. I'll just tell you when we used to shoot the California State shoot in Kingsburg, you only got there was no. No preferential, late, early, whatever. You had to pick a squad. You had to pick your number straight through. So you were 24 all week or you were 48 all weekend.

Rick

Didn't Tucson used to do that too? Yeah.

Zach

Oh, yeah.

Rick

We were Squad 11 year old.

Zach

Yeah. So. So

Rick

Bill Barnes said, you know what we want to get done. And we were squad one in every event. And it worked in the second and third event.

Zach

If the first event were you a little rough, if you wanted a pre squad, you had to pick a number for your five guys and that was your number all week. There was no late, early, middle, nothing. It was that. So you said, okay, if I want to shoot late in the morning, then I'm shooting late in the afternoon. If I want to shoot early in the morning, I'm shooting early in the afternoon. And so you, you every. There was no way to really time it perfect. And when they did that, everyone shot every bank. Because once you were on your squad, they did the slide method and you started on this bank and you slid all the way through that gun club. Because at Kingsburg, there was so much variance between bank A shooting over the water and then all the way to G and the Gobi where you're shooting this little desert path that's over in the corner. You had handsets over there, you had pat traps over here. I mean, it was a really, a diverse gun club. And that's how they did that.

Rick

Tucson did it years ago. We, we would shoot, you know, down the line. And I just, I, I know because you're gonna have that problem here with the. Which last year we shot the back fence. We were down on bank, I think Bank 3.

Zach

And it wasn't bad.

John

No, I mean, all the banks here are good.

Greg Pink

Yeah, Change is bad. Okay.

Rick

Nobody likes, no one likes change.

Greg Pink

But if you can, that's why they're

Zach

still on scores on what the hell. I'm just saying, like, like, let's get with the technology people. Like, come on, wake up, folks.

Rick

Wake up. This is from Greg Pink.

Zach

Hey, give me some love. That was a good. He knows what I'm talking about. That he's not right.

Rick

I speak the truth.

Zach

Let's talk about it.

Greg Pink

But I'll give you another example if I can.

Rick

Yeah, absolutely.

Greg Pink

Maryland, Maryland State Shoot. Wonderful club. Right. They've got kind of a horseshoe layout. Okay, here's the problem. The way the, the freaking traps on many of them point east.

Zach

Yeah.

Rick

Okay.

Greg Pink

Okay. And they're dealing with that. So nobody wants. So, so here's what they're doing. Nobody wants to shoot the first flight or something. Yeah. Because you know, they're, they're starting at nine. That sun right here. So here's what they did, is they moved their start time to 10:00am yeah. But they said, hey, based on daylight and whatnot, there's only so many squads. Oh, okay. So basically, don't, don't Play this game of. Because what used to happen is you

Zach

keep waiting to the next.

Greg Pink

Nobody squatted for events until the national anthem. Yeah. All right. And you know, I give kudos to Nick Hughes out there and Janice Vige and whatnot. They, they, they looked at it, they said, hey, and. And guess what? They're not having that problem anymore. Well, years ago, and it's a training.

Rick

Well, years ago in Phoenix, we used to have the Spring grand there in Litchfield park, and it faced east. And the first 10 squads had their own special trophies.

Greg Pink

No, you gotta be kidding me.

Rick

No, because they were like, hey, you shoot this, you got an opportunity to win, you know, cases of shell.

Greg Pink

Are you kidding?

Rick

No, because I want to chew. It was.

Zach

That's funny. I like that. Like a free coffee mug.

Rick

Exactly.

Zach

I'd be on the freaking. The A tier, first squad, all American team. Like, get me on that. That east bank freaking points goggles. Oh, my hell. Triple the points.

Rick

What would it be? Interesting. I know the Cardinal Classic, doing a bunch of good stuff. But, you know, tomorrow night, you know, we got the. The back fence shootout.

Greg Pink

We do.

Rick

So what's the numbers look like?

Greg Pink

The number. We're at 550. We're capping at six 50 more shooters. So you gotta. You gotta be paid up by 2pm or you're out. Or you're out. You're out. I mean, unfortunately, we got to do that.

Chrissy

Yeah.

Greg Pink

So.

Zach

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's. It is what it is.

Greg Pink

The response is great.

Zach

Why wouldn't you want to get it on the. This folks get in here. If you're freaking thinking about it, get. Drive on down, you know.

Greg Pink

And I don't care what kind of shooter you are, because how deep the options go.

Rick

Well, yeah, that's what someone earlier said. All you got to do is break a 90 and get money. No, no, it is. What it is, is if you break a 94 or better, you're guaranteed in the top six.

Greg Pink

Or.

Rick

Excuse me, the 95. No, 94. Who you are guaranteed 199.9879695 and 6. 94 would be first in the Lewis and he runs the program.

Greg Pink

Oh, no, I run the program. You guys develop the option.

Rick

Yeah, but the 94. And that's what I tell everybody. 94 on down is where the Lewis hits.

Greg Pink

And I think. Is it six classes?

Rick

Six classes.

Greg Pink

Six classes.

Chrissy

Yeah.

Rick

And all the bags were given away.

Greg Pink

Yeah, I think we're giving silver away this year.

John

We've got 20 ounces of silver from John Prescott, if you don't win anything.

Zach

And we're gonna try to get that

John

out to 10 people, like split it up like 2 ounces.

Rick

Okay. Yeah, I know. Last year we gave away. What were they? Five ounce. We had a couple of five shotgun shells. Because I was the first person drawing last year. Because I don't win anything. I was like, last two years, the

Greg Pink

last few years, you had guys breaking 78, 76, and taking home 1500 bucks. Yeah, yeah.

Rick

The one guy there was two guys broke 78 the first year. I think they got Knight. It was 1900.

Zach

I think they did pretty good.

Rick

It was crazy, folks. I mean, listen, get here.

Greg Pink

Oh, food. Talk about the food.

Rick

Yeah, you know, 20 or 30 pork butts. Yeah, they're from White Flyers, the one that donated the food. Yep. So that's awesome. You know, it's. It's.

Greg Pink

It's a fun time. It's just a fun.

Zach

We'll have a bunch of merch up there. I know, I know. Joey's gonna have shirts for the back fence shootout. If you're coming, you're gonna want to get a shirt.

Rick

You're going to have a bunch of Trap Talk merch available.

Zach

Yeah, just come say hi. Like, come check out. It's going to be a trap shooting experience.

John

And if for some reason you missed the one here in Ohio, it's okay.

Zach

Come to the one. And then if you don't, then guess what? Get on your calendar next year because these aren't going anywhere. No, I think what's going to end up happening is it's going to be almost like the Dubai thing was, where it's capped, limited and exclusive. And if you shot it last year, you'll get an invitation to shoot again this year. Because once it gets to 600, I don't see how they're going to be able to go any more than that. So these entries. These entries are going to be able to be in it and do it and kind of go from there, because I don't see any other way.

Greg Pink

That's an interesting. Okay, I'll work on the program to do that. To send out the invites.

Zach

Yeah, you gotta have. I mean, you gotta have retention.

Rick

There's making up new rules.

Zach

You gotta.

Rick

And it's Joey's event, so we'll let Joey decide that.

Greg Pink

Where is Joey?

John

But not.

Rick

So Joe is at the hall of Fame inducting Bobby Kaplinger.

Greg Pink

Oh, okay.

Rick

So shout out to Bobby for going in the hall of Fame.

Greg Pink

I'm gonna get out of your way. Thanks for letting thanks, Mr.

Zach

Pink. Yeah, thank you, guys.

Rick

Appreciate it.

Zach

Anytime. But you know, Rick, I think at the end of the day, everything's going well this week. I mean, people are shooting good. The target presentation is fantastic. We're going into the heart of the weekend. I mean, we've got the class doubles tomorrow morning, the morning. We've got the preliminary handicap, then we've got the. The back fence. So we got the 200 singles championship on Saturday, and then the. And the handicap championship on Sunday. So, I mean, there's a whole lot of meat ahead of us in this Ohio State shoot. If you could plan to come Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Yes, there's. That's a lot of shooting there. You get a lot of championships in. You get a. You know, you get an all around. You get class championship events, you get a preliminary handicap in there, and you get the back fence. I mean, so a lot of folks.

Rick

It's going to be a great day.

Zach

They're coming in. I mean, there's a lot of working guys that can't come in Tuesday or Wednesday shoot the whole week. But if you can make the three days at Ohio, you're gonna get a lot of shooting and a lot of opportunity and have a lot of fun.

Rick

So, yeah, we got. We got Ohio, then as soon as this is over, 4th of July going on. And then Wisconsin State shoot. Iowa State shoot. And the grand, folks.

Zach

And then the Heartland.

Rick

Well, actually, well, we got the grand, then we'll have the carnoplastic, and then the Heartland, and then it's boom, Vegas, Michigan and Kentucky. Yeah, well, yeah, Kentucky, Michigan.

Zach

This is prime trap shooting season, folks. And the problem with it is we can't get everywhere.

Rick

Everywhere there are shoes.

Zach

There's shoots overlapping everywhere. And we're trying to go, but this is week number seven for me, and I need. I need a little break. I'm like. To the point where I'm like, okay, I'm glad to take a couple weeks off in July and then get to the ground because you want to come in refreshed and ready. But we're looking forward to seeing you all at our listener party. We're looking forward to the grand, obviously. Come by, say hi, get your merch.

Greg Pink

Can I get one more shootout? Sos Silver Shootout. Now coming to the Grand American.

Zach

Oh, my God. At the grand. We're giving silver.

Rick

SOS is giving away a bunch of silver.

Greg Pink

Silver.

Rick

How much?

Greg Pink

Break it. 28.

Rick

28 ounces.

John

We'll.

Rick

We'll get him to give you a little more silver.

Zach

We'll have it at 30, by the way.

Rick

We gotta hit a bond and we're breaking it up.

Greg Pink

We're gonna have short yardage shooters working for theirs and we got long yard working for theirs.

Zach

I like that. I like that a lot. I like that a lot.

John

Co sponsored by

Rick

Ron Prescott.

Zach

The man, the myth, the legend. He's a good guy. If you need gold or silver, give him a call. He ain't Goldfinger, but he'll do for me.

John

We'll see.

Zach

I don't forget nothing. You folks remember that and we thank

Rick

you for tuning in.

Zach

Happy Friday. Like share, subscribe, sending your messages and we love you, so we appreciate the love. Wear your merch pride, and we'll see you on the line soon.

Rick

Thanks, everyone. Good luck and thanks to Craig off for letting us use the building to do this podcast.