Michael Ryan

Hi, everybody. This is Michael Ryan. We are on summer hiatus, but for the rest of the summer, we are going to play the Best of UFO Talker Podcast. So enjoy today's episode. And as always, if you have a question or comment or something you would like to say to us, send your email to ufotalkerell.net foreign. You are listening to the UFO Talker podcast. Come with us as we explore UFOs from the past and the present. With insightful discussions, interviews and reviews, we will add our voice to the mysteries that have been seen in our skies and oceans for all of human history. Now, here is our host, Michael Ryan. Welcome, everybody, to the podcast. This is season 3, episode 11 from Studio 7H, overlooking the beautiful Trent river here in Ontario, Canada.

Christine Scott

And I'm Christine Scott, coming to you from the beautiful warehouse district in Regina, Saskatchewan, from Studio 9H.

Michael Ryan

And on today's episode, we are going to delve into another RCMP file, and it's what we call the McGregor Manitoba encounter.

Christine Scott

And as we say on the prairies, it's a gooder. It's a gooder.

Michael Ryan

And as we say here at Studio 7H, it's cold outside.

Christine Scott

Well, how cold are you?

Michael Ryan

Because it's not like you. You're going to be able to outdo me. But I think tonight is supposed to be around minus 20 Celsius.

Christine Scott

Oh, we're balmy. Minus 27 right now.

Michael Ryan

When you go outside and it's minus 20 Celsius, you know, it's cold. There's no, no, no. Thinking that, oh, I'm just going to take a brisk walk. No, no, there's Nothing brisk about minus 20.

Christine Scott

So you didn't plunge into the water on New Year's Day like a lot of other people were doing, you know, a cold lake or anything like that.

Michael Ryan

I wouldn't do that at 60 Fahrenheit, let alone. Let alone in the minuses like that is. I just look at those people and they think, geez, not for me.

Christine Scott

Yeah, full of.

Michael Ryan

No, that's just a hard pass on any of that. That is.

Christine Scott

Nope.

Michael Ryan

Yeah. And then that thing where they. This new trend where people want to jump into an ice bath.

Christine Scott

Oh, yeah, no, yeah. Just. No.

Michael Ryan

Yeah, that is just an odd, odd thing. But, Christine, I wanted to mention something that it's weird how we've never spoken. I don't think we've ever talked about this before or it's been brought up, but probably about two weeks ago, I started watching that show, the Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, and probably why I had never watched it before is because, you know, I'd seen the books about it and heard them, heard them being talked about by different people. And I was fairly dismissive of it because in my mind they were saying stuff like, oh, we've seen Bigfoot and we've seen dinosaurs and, you know, the clock move from the one side of the room to the other and just all kinds of stuff like the Exorcist.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And I thought, okay, well, this doesn't really interest me and I don't know how much, how much of this could possibly be real. And so I don't know how this happened, but I just started watching the episodes and I think it was season five. So I didn't start off on season one. That's another mystery. But when I started watching the episodes, I thought, oh, well, this is actually pretty interesting. And I really like the two. There's a lot of people on the show, but the two main characters, I guess, are Travis Taylor, who in real life did a lot of work for the Department of Defense and also NASA. He's an aerospace engineer by trade, and he has his head pretty, you know, screwed on pretty tightly, so he tries to remain true to the science and all that stuff. And then the second kind of guy in command is Eric Bard. So they do a lot of experimenting and things. I. One thing I, when I looked into it, this didn't surprise me at all. It's the same producers that produce Skinwalker Ranch, they also produce the Curse of Oak island, which is such a similar format, I'm thinking you can't help but notice the similarities. Yeah, I just started watching and I thought, no, there's definitely something going on because they're doing a lot of work. The season I'm looking at, there's a mesa on the property. I think it's 510 acres, something like that, 512 acres. And there's a big mesa there that they're, they're drilling into. And they've done all this all, you know, ultrasound to see what's under the, the, the dirt. And so they have found some kind of 400 foot long domed object and it's causing a lot of their equipment to malfunction and register things off the chart and just, just all of that. So it's basically, you know, everyone loves a mystery, right? That's the compelling factor. And also they get these communication signals that are at the 1.5, 1.6 GHz setting and they. This is a communication channel at a frequency that's normally reserved for Communications with space. So they don't know where that's coming from. You know, it seems to be going both ways. It's coming up from the ground and down from the sky. So there's just so many things that don't make sense. And they see orbs, they have video of this. And it's good that Travis Taylor, he doesn't get too carried away. Like, he never jumps to the. You know, they're aliens, they're here. Like, he's not one of those. Not one of those guys. Sometimes they take a little bit of license here and there. I've seen them say things where I thought, well, I could be anything. But, you know, they're calling it like they know for sure. But it's very interesting. And I think if our listeners haven't looked at it because of one reason or another, like me, they were just super skeptical. I think you should give it a chance because definitely there's something, definitely something happening. Who knows what it is, but it could just be another piece of the puzzle. Right. A piece of this mysterious thing that we look into. So when I did a little bit of research on it. So the ranch was purchased in 1934 by Kevin and Edith Myers. And so they lived there a long time. They sold it in 1994. I've heard. I don't know if how factual this is, but I read somewhere that during their time there, they never noticed anything strange. And so from 94 to 96, it was Terry and Gwen Sherman. So they're the ones that started telling everyone weird things were happening. And I think George Knapp got involved there. And then from 1996 to 2016, Robert Bigelow.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

Owned it. And we all know who he is.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And he paid 200,000 for the property. So he did lots of experimenting and trying to figure things out. Now, unfortunately, he has not shared any of that data with anybody. So whatever happened or didn't happen or whatever that's with him, and it doesn't look like he's going to part with that information anytime soon. Now, the one thing that you think about. So if there had have been really crazy things happening and he would have had proof of it, I don't think he would have sold the place. That's my feeling. Because if it really was that odd, I don't think he would have sold it. So Bigelow, in 2016, he sold it to a real estate guy, Brandon Fugal. And Mr. Fugal, he's on the show, he looks very, very serious. One of those guys Gravitas that when he talks and when he's listening to people, it's. Boy, there's a. Definitely a seriousness in his look. One thing is Bigelow knows how to make money because he bought it for 200,000. He sold it to Fugal for 500,000.

Christine Scott

Oh, yeah.

Michael Ryan

So, you know, I not only like UFOs, I like to make another 300,000 on my. Yeah. On my endeavor.

Christine Scott

UF. What? Who cares? Yeah.

Michael Ryan

Yeah. So definitely, I would say to our listeners that if you haven't, you should give the show a chance because there's definitely some interesting things on there. I'm not saying that they have discovered anything worthwhile or meaningful, but it's just more evidence, more pieces of the puzzle that we're all trying to figure out. And I think, for me, the. The saving grace is Travis Taylor. I think if Travis Taylor hadn't been on the show, I'm not sure I would continue watching it. But he does have credibility. So, you know, he has some letters beside his name, so if it was all goofball stuff, he's gonna be associated with it. Right? So, yeah, he would lose a lot of his respect and credibility in the community. But there you go, Something I didn't think I'd ever watch. Now I'm kind of. I'm kind of hooked. Hooked by it. And one kind of interesting thing is, as with the Curse of Oak island, where they're trying to find this buried treasure, there's lots of digging and, you know, doing these lidar maps of the ground and all that kind of stuff. They're doing a very similar thing on this mesa, which is kind of like a cliff or a mountain or that kind of thing. They're drilling into it right now, and it looks like next year, I guess, they're gonna try to think of ways to start digging into it to find out what this. What this object was. So I thought, isn't that funny? It's almost the exact same show, except one's looking for gold, one's looking for a crashed ufo. I think that's what they're hinting at, that this might be a crashed UFO from thousands of years ago or whatever. So, Christine, I think you have some UFO news for us.

Christine Scott

Yeah. We have reports of more orange orbs spotted in the skies over the US near a military base in Tennessee on New Year's Day Day, that they were seen hovering over a military base in Tennessee. To be exact, they were flying relatively low. The orb was traveling over Fort Campbell, a military base along the Tennessee Kentucky border on New Year's Day. And the user, who by user I mean put her video up online now, an interesting thing again, the other witness with her was her father, who is an army veteran of 30 years and said he could not explain what he was seeing. As she says, my dad, a former soldier with 30 years of army experience, extensive knowledge of the aircraft that fly over his house, said he couldn't explain what he saw. This was unlike anything he'd encountered online. And this was just about 12, just after 12:10am January 1st. So probably the first UFO sighting of the year. Yes, she's.

Michael Ryan

And if nothing else, I'm glad that they saw an orb.

Christine Scott

Yes.

Michael Ryan

They didn't say I saw a drone. Yeah, I don't know how, I don't know how everyone else feels, but I'm kind of so over drones. Like it's.

Christine Scott

Well, and you'll like this that the dad made very clear. They make very clear in this, my friend dad and I watched the object together. It did not appear to have any additional lights as they suspect most drones do. To repeat, it had no additional lights as one might expect on a drone. So they were very clear.

Michael Ryan

Yeah, I don't know. I think now that we've had time to kind of sit back and think about it, when they're, they're saying we're seeing these drones and some of them are making noise, I'm going, okay, so it's a drone. Yeah, that part of it's not the mystery. It's like who is. What person from Earth is, is doing this? You know, so that's almost a separate thing. It's, it's really left the field of UFOs now it's become something else. But you never know. They might. Drones may still be interesting. I'm, I'm kind of over it myself, but.

Christine Scott

Well, it's just saturation.

Michael Ryan

Yes.

Christine Scott

You know, there was just so much of it.

Michael Ryan

So now, Christine, it's time to do our small town or city shout out. And this week we have picked Woodstock, Georgia, which has a population of 35,065 people. And so Woodstock, Georgia is kind of in the northwest top portion of Georgia. And it's. I believe it's not too far from Atlanta. Somewhere in there.

Christine Scott

No, they vicinity. They consider it a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. And it was originally a stop on the Louisville and Nashville railroad. And you had, we were talking about why are so many T towns in Ontario, you know, the states, named Woodstock? This community specifically derives it name from Woodstock, which was an 1826 novel by Walter Scott.

Michael Ryan

Oh, maybe that has something to do with it because like you just mentioned, there's Woodstocks everywhere. Yeah, I think every state, every province has a Woodstock.

Christine Scott

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Now a lot of famous people have actually come out of Woodstock, Georgia, if you're a reader. William Deal, the guy who wrote thriller novels, and there's at least one movie, Primal Fear, I believe is one of his novels. Good movie. The lovely and talented Dakota Fanning is from Woodstock.

Michael Ryan

Really? Wow.

Christine Scott

Yeah. And if you are a Walking Dead fan, Chandler Riggs.

Michael Ryan

Wow.

Christine Scott

Who's everybody's favorite? Carl. Carl is from Woodstock.

Michael Ryan

Well, one thing you know, because I watched the. Watch a few videos of whatever town or city we do a shout out of. And so Woodstock looks pretty nice. It looks like it's been rejuvenated over the last dozen or so years. It does have one odd thing. It has a. Along the main street, has a very large area that's connected to the main street and on one side of it is a railroad track that runs right through the town. Right. It's. Yeah, it is a little bit different. And they've got a lot of great parks, some smaller amphitheaters where bands play. I mean, it's. It just has a pretty nice vibe to it. Right. Like always, here comes our favorite part of the show, the bakery. And they have a few bakeries in Woodstock, but the one I have chosen is called the Alpine Bakery. And they make a lot of baked goods. Like literally, if we mention everything they baked, it would be a 45 minute program just talking about what they baked.

Christine Scott

And we could talk about for 45 minutes easily.

Michael Ryan

But we won't, we won't, we won't. But two things that stood right out for me is they carried not slice or I guess slices of pie, but they have wedges of cake. And so they have a whole menu of wedges in one that jumped out at me was the cappuccino chocolate wedge. And then they have another thing that jumped out at me was a raspberry dark chocolate torte.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And that's a devil's food cake layered with raspberry mousse and covered with dark chocolate ganache. Yum. Is there a bus that goes to Woodstock?

Christine Scott

Yeah. Shut up and take my money.

Michael Ryan

And of course, they have several great coffee shops. And this one is called Cafe Bom Dia, which is, I think stands for Good day. I think that's what it stands for in Portuguese or Latin or something like that. And the owners are from Brazil and they have lots of incredible Brazilian coffees that just. I mean, it looks so romantic when they have the names of this and that. And their store is at 1700 River Park Boulevard in Woodstock. So if we're ever going through Woodstock, Georgia, you know that we're stopping at the Alpine Bakery and the Bomb Dia Cafe. Oh yeah.

Christine Scott

Oh yeah.

Michael Ryan

And we will be right back after this message.

Narrator/Announcer

In 1983, British ufologist Jenny Randalls came up with the term the Oz effect. The term describes a state or a condition that many UFO witnesses find themselves in. One moment they will be hearing birds and dogs and the sound of the breeze through the trees. And the next minute all sound seems to fade away. It's not only sound, but all the buildings, streets and the sky just don't seem the same. It's as if something is out of place or the reality around you seems to have come to a halt. People who have witnessed a UFO comment later that they had a camera on a nearby table, but during the encounter never thought to take a picture. People who have encountered aliens and moments later go about their day as if nothing has happened. What is the Oz effect? Another dimension? A place where our understanding of the reality around us seems to disappear? Or is it a moment that we are not meant to remember? Next time the sounds around you fade away and something just doesn't feel right. Keep your eyes wide open and hang on tight to the world around you.

Christine Scott

It.

Michael Ryan

It's time once again for a book review from Christine Scott. Christine has written for Prairie Dog Magazine, Cracked, and Home Movies magazine and she is the co owner of Centennial Books in Regina, Saskatchewan. Christine, what book do you have for us today?

Christine Scott

Well, today we're doing a big book about a big case by one of the OGs of UFO investigation. Today, today I'm going to be talking about the Andreessen Affair, the true story of a close encounter of the fourth kind by Raymond E. Fowler. Now the. The edition I am reviewing was Originally published in 1979 and then this edition I am reading from is the 2015 edition which also includes a forward by Dr. J. Allen Hynek.

Michael Ryan

Yay.

Christine Scott

Yay. So we've got two of the OGs here and I'm first going to talk about Raymond Fowler because it's a name you don't hear as much anymore. But, but he was big.

Michael Ryan

Oh yeah, yeah. He was back there with John G. Fuller and. Yeah, incident at Exeter and all those guys. It was one of those names that, that was one of the solid foundations of UFO books back in the day.

Christine Scott

Yeah. One of the titans. And this is the first of four books he wrote on this subject alone. So I'll give you some background. Raymond E. Fowler, born in Salem, Massachusetts. Got a B.A. magna cum laude from the Gordon College of Liberal Arts. He had a Tour with the USAF Security Service and 25 years with GTE Government Systems. Retired early after working as a task manager and senior planner on several major weapons systems, including Minuteman and MX Intercontinental ballistic missiles. Where do we begin? When we talk about him. His reports were published in congressional hearings, military publications, professional journals. J. Allen Hynek calls him an outstanding UFO investigator. I know of none who is more dedicated, trustworthy or persevering.

Michael Ryan

And I, as far as I can find, he is still alive. Yeah, I think he is 91 years old and my research uncovered that he is still with us.

Christine Scott

Boy, wouldn't he be great to talk to.

Michael Ryan

I know, I know it. Hopefully he would be like a Dick Van Dyke, 90 year old, you know, still fairly lucid and all those things.

Christine Scott

And he wrote 10 books on the subject of UFOs.

Michael Ryan

Wow. I wasn't, wasn't sure of that.

Christine Scott

Yeah, 10. He was chairman of NICAP, the NICAP Massachusetts subcommittee. Now get this. This is an interesting sentence. He was an early warning coordinator for the USAF contracted UFO study at the University of Colorado. Oh yeah, what's that mean? And a scientific associate for the center for UFO Study. He. And he was on the board of mufon. Later he was on TV a lot. He was. He built the Woodside Planetarium and Observatory. When Raymond Fowler talks, you listen.

Michael Ryan

Yes.

Christine Scott

And to go on to the. More back to the book. This book is 232 pages long, has a lot of appendices and a lot of sketches from Betty Andresen. This book probably has the most sketches from any abductee I've ever seen because I don't think the 1961 Betty and Barney Hill case had this many sketches.

Michael Ryan

Well, also there it was among the very first abduction books. So like you're saying the Betty and Barney Hill and then Ann Druffle had the Topanga Canyon books, but I'm not sure was that before or after this book? I can't recall.

Christine Scott

I think Topanga Canyon was after. I was trying to think of when Betty and Barney Hill book was published because I know the abduction was in 1961, but this, there's a lot of important things about this abduction if you don't know the story. There was a lady named Betty Andreessen in 1967. She was at home with Her. And we both said, what, her seven children?

Michael Ryan

Yeah, yeah.

Christine Scott

And in 1967 she claimed she had an encounter with UFO beings. It was one of the first controversies about, hey, I saw aliens, I talked to aliens. And it engaged UFO researchers. She was, it was 1-25-67. She was in South Ashburnham, Massachusetts. The lights went out in her home. Her seven children and her parents who were visiting were in the kitchen. Her father looked out the back window and saw a pink light and claimed he saw several little creatures which he thought of as quote, Halloween like entities. They and dad made a passing note but didn't really do anything. And the next morning it got back to normal, except Andresen had a strange feeling. Something happened. And over the next few weeks she had flashbacks of humanoid creatures and an otherworldly environment. But it wasn't until 77 when she went under hypnosis. And this is one of the first times you hear about sleep paralysis. According to her gnosis sessions, as soon as she and her father saw the creatures, she claimed the family was placed in a state of paralysis. Gray beings entered the house and addressed her to telepathically. She was floated into the spaceship. And this is another one of the first stories of being probed. Now this is where this, I think is the first abduction that has religious elements.

Michael Ryan

Yes, yes, that's right.

Christine Scott

Yeah. And that, that made it, you know, controversial to a lot of people. She was a devout Christian and she met a, claimed she was taken to another world where she met a being who she saw as God. And she was told she was a chosen one. There was a lecture by an entity she claimed was named Quasga who said she would forget about it, but that he and his companions loved humanity and had come to help. And this is one of the first cases of the classic contactee being given a message. Humans needed to study nature, rid themselves of self destructive tendencies. And she claims they left her with a book which she examined later and only remembered in 1977. But she, after she was regressed, she, she thinks this was happening all her life. And her second husband, Bob Luca, said a lot of the same things happened to him and had been happening most of the life of their life. And she actually wrote a book about their experiences together too. So this is probably one of the best documented UFO abductions I know in

Michael Ryan

our, our listeners who weren't around during the 70s. I, we just have to remind them that, you know, there was still a lot of stigma back there.

Narrator/Announcer

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

About just seeing UFOs and a lot of Researchers and a lot of people interested in the topic, they could be interested in hearing stories about craft and all that kind of stuff. But when it came to being abducted by an alien, that was really a bridge too far. That was lots and lots of people just totally dismissed that and wouldn't even, wouldn't even consider that. And even for myself, I kind of, when you would hear these stories back then, I thought, oh, boy, you know, that seems like I don't want to go there. But it was kind of a bold book for its time.

Christine Scott

Yeah. And just going a little, just touching on the book that Betty and her second husband, Bob Luca wrote. They wrote a book together called A Lifting of the Veil. And it's, I would guess it's written like a love story because it said, the true life story of a couple that had to cope not only with the reality of UFO alien experience, but harassment by US Government agencies as well.

Michael Ryan

Wow.

Christine Scott

Yeah, that's like, all right.

Michael Ryan

I wasn't even aware of that book.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

Something else I want to mention is that Betty Andreessen, she just recently passed away in March 18th of 2022. And also she had three of her children had passed away before she did. So that was kind of unusual also.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

So, Christine, how many discs would you give this book?

Christine Scott

I would probably give it four out of five. Again, it's really solid research. And as I've said, I don't think I've read a UFO book with as many detailed sketches from the person who claimed to have been abducted. That is one thing that you will notice about this book. The amount of sketches which, you know, you see Betty and Barney Hill, they draw a bit of a star map or they sort of draw a being. This is packed with drawings.

Michael Ryan

And then also it's. It's just one of the books that you have to read if you're interested in, in UFOs. It's just those, those original several books that are just the classics that you can't pass up.

Christine Scott

Yeah, this is definitely a classic by, I, I'll call him one of the OGs, Raymond Fowler. This is a classic UFO book, definitely.

Michael Ryan

Well, thank you, Christine. And Christine will be back in the coming weeks with another book review. So, Christine, on today's show, we have another file from the RCMP vault of paperwork and we're calling it the McGregor Manitoba encounter. And kind of the thing that really, you know, interests me a lot about this is something we've talked about before is mainly when you hear people from around the world invest UFO investigators, that kind of person and they talk about Canada. They always say, oh, you know, nothing really happened in Canada with UFOs. And if they mention anything, they'll say the Shag harbor incident, they'll mention the Falcon Lake incident, and there's a couple of smaller ones, but that's about it. They don't really go on and on with like there are in other countries. But yeah, I think we have dispelled that myth because just in the cases we have presented so far, and I think there's at least a half dozen, most all of the cases we have covered are just amazing cases, not just for Canada, but on the world stage. There's some of the better UFO encounters and sightings that have happened throughout history. So somehow that has happened. And maybe in a later episode we'll kind of delve into why we think that has happened. How did Canada, all of these get missed. But for now we're going to dive into this. Something I want to preface this with is McGregor, Manitoba, which is a fairly small place. The person who witnessed all this, their name is Gerald Adams and he was from Bagot, Manitoba. So bagot, Manitoba and McGregor, Manitoba, they're kind of at the bottom center of the province of Manitoba, a little bit west of Winnipeg. They are about 135 miles north of the North Dakota border. Manitoba in general is not a very populated province. And the areas that we're talking about are, you know, everything is kind of smaller. So I'm, I'm going to say most of the cities are probably a thousand or in that realm. So Gerald Adams wasn't sure exactly when this happened. He said he believed it was either October 23rd or the 24th of 1970. And another thing we want to mention is we're going to be reading from a correspondence between Mr. Gerald Adams and Peter Millman. And for those of you who probably don't know who Peter Millman was, he was actually a very important figure in the National Research Council of Canada. And mainly he was the National Research Council and Peter Millman. They were mainly interested in meteorites. They did some other work as well, but that was the majority of their work was looking after meteorites and things in the sky and all that kind of stuff. And it's funny, Christine, as I read through these hundreds and thousands of correspondence, I feel for Peter, Peter Millman, because when I was doing some deep dive research on Peter Millman, I found something in the library Archives of Canada. And in 1970 they have a recording from an interviewer named Marion McCormick. And in this recording she puts bullet notes of what, of what Peter Millen talked about. So two of the things jumped out at me was his skepticism about sightings and the identifying of UFOs not being a very pressing problem. So he was already predisposed, as it were, of not being very interested and not really too concerned about what UFOs were. Now something I have found out, as I mentioned from reading through all these reports, this must have given him nightmares because for someone who is not interested and would rather be doing anything else, he was doing a lot of corresponding with people about UFOs and I mean a lot. Like, just from what I have seen, his day would have been full.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

So, you know, when he got home, his wife would be like, so what'd you do today, honey? I did 35 letters to people who've seen UFOs all over, all over Canada. But this, the credit I have to give Peter Millman is, you know, having found out that he didn't, wasn't really interested in UFOs and, and didn't really care about any of this. In all of his correspondence, he definitely pretended he was interested.

Christine Scott

He was very professional.

Michael Ryan

Yeah, very professional. And I thought, wow, this is for a guy who doesn't really care, he's pretending pretty well. Like this is the kind of correspondence you'd like to get back from the government when you, when you send your letter. And another thing is it was just a bad fit for. To send UFO reports to the National Research Council. I don't know how that came about, but just not the right fit. It should have been something in the Department of Defense or some group like that, that it was closer to national security, something along those lines. So, you know, I feel for the nrc, how they got stuck with this job, who knows? But, and I like all of his correspondence at the end is we'll make sure that we file your report.

Narrator/Announcer

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And I think to myself, having known now what he thought of all this, I think the filing was the circular filing system that was near his desk. But of course he didn't do that. We don't like to think he did that.

Christine Scott

No.

Michael Ryan

But the first correspondence I have is from a military personnel. His name was Captain GM Winterburn and he worked at the Canadian Forces Operations Center. And he also was, I don't know if he was just paying lip service, but he also seemed very, very interested in this. So his telex that he sent to somebody, he mentioned that Mr. Gerald Adams, this, what he saw was on a clear night, you know, the stars were visible There was a lot of shooting stars that night. Also, the northern lights were visible. And he witnessed this about two miles north and one mile west of McGregor. So they were kind of on the outskirts of the town. The object was an oblong UFO, 4 to 5ft high, 8ft in diameter. It left an impression on the ground. The bottom was shaped in like a tapered kind of a bowl. He had a hard time describing the top of the UFO because it had nine kind of rods with a light on the top of them. And they were in groups of three around the top of the ufo. And he saw this for approximately two hours. Now, one of the funny things was, you know, he. His girlfriend was with him, and when he thought it was a ufo, she became very frightened. And he was going to go walk into the field to go find out about what it really was. So she didn't want either thing to happen. She didn't want to know about UFOs, she didn't want him to leave the car, and so he actually drove her home. This would be one of the first UFO sightings I read where he drove one of the witnesses home. And he came back. Yeah, and when he came back, it was in a slightly different area. And something else that really bumped up this sighting for me is not only did Mr. Adams see the craft, he also saw a humanoid figure. Yeah, and he saw the humanoid figure about one and a half miles back from the ufo. And he was walking with difficulty, heading north. The humanoid was about 4ft tall with arms and legs and head, and he was dressed in a silver metallic uniform. He appeared to be wearing a helmet. The observer, Mr. Adams, at one point, was within 50ft or less from the humanoid. When the craft did take off from from where he saw it the second time, he described it as slowly lifting off the surface in a vertical motion, then rapidly darting in a northwest direction with great speed and out of sight within 30 seconds. So here's something else interesting that Captain Winterberg wrote at the bottom of his memo was the RCMP at Carberry, Manitoba, the detachment there. They had interviewed Mr. Adams, but they never filed a report of the sighting, and it was never forwarded to the Canadian Forces Operations center or the National Research Council, which at that point was they. They had to do it. So Captain Winterburn, he called up the RCMP and reminded them that it is a requirement for them to do this. So they said they were going to do it. But one thing we have to say is I have found no records of that report. And it makes you wonder, like Was this so odd that they didn't want to go into it or didn't want to mention the details that they had heard about? Because a lot of these reports that we've mentioned, the sightings will be very close. The objects will be, you know, discernible as a craft. Very few of them mention a humanoid.

Christine Scott

No. This is. And this is one of the first times we've seen the word humanoid.

Michael Ryan

Yes.

Christine Scott

In a report. Yeah.

Michael Ryan

Yes. And so something else which I found out from that we'll be reading a little bit later, is that Captain Winterberg, when he interviewed Mr. Adams, he made an auto audio recording. And that really piqued my. My interest. And so that it's going to be another one of these things that I'm going to put on my list of things to do this year is we're gonna try and see if we can get that audio recording. Because as people who've been in the military know, they seldom, if ever, throw things out unless they don't want anyone to ever see it again.

Christine Scott

Yeah, just like in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Right. The Ark of the Covenant. It's in a warehouse somewhere.

Michael Ryan

But how great would it be to hear that recording?

Narrator/Announcer

Wow.

Michael Ryan

And also Captain Winterberg, he thought enough of it that it should have been recorded. So keep in mind, this is 1970, so I don't imagine they're making a lot of recordings of a lot of these UFO reports. And we should also mention that Mr. Adams, he contacted the military first and then the RCMP. So he was really moved by what he saw. Because I don't think most people would go to this. This level.

Christine Scott

No.

Michael Ryan

To contact the military, sit down with them and record an interview. Go to the rcmp. It doesn't sound like it. So what we're going to do now is I'm going to read from the letter that Peter millman sent to Mr. Adams on November 12, 1970. And Mr. Millman has asked him nine, I believe it is, eight. Eight questions. So what I'll do is, as I read the first question, then Christine is going to respond with a letter that Mr. Adams sent back on November 17th. And it was. Had a lot of good information in it. So what I'm about to read to you now is from Peter Millman, who was the head of the Upper Atmosphere Research of the National Research Council. And he says, Dear Mr. Adams, I have been informed by Captain Winterburn at the Canadian Forces Operations center concerning your sighting of a peculiar object on the night of October 23rd, 24th, 1970. I have listened to the tape of the conversation between you and Captain Captain Winterburn. And I am interested in securing some additional information on certain points. I would very much appreciate it if you could find the time to answer some of the following questions and if possible, make a sketch of the object you saw as you remember it. I enclose an envelope for your reply and this may be used without additional postage. Oh, that was nice of him. Yeah. So question one. When you mentioned that the event occurred at 1:00am Were you using Central Standard Time or Central Daylight Time?

Christine Scott

The event occurred at 1:00am Central Daylight Time.

Michael Ryan

And question two. What was the exact position where your truck was parked at the time of the sighting?

Christine Scott

My truck was parked facing north on a trail road about three or four miles north of McGregor. And there is a beautiful sketch.

Michael Ryan

And question three. In what direction from the truck did you see the object?

Christine Scott

The object was situated northwest of my truck.

Michael Ryan

What first called your attention to this object and what distance was it from your truck and how did you estimate this distance?

Christine Scott

My attention was first called to the object when we sat up because we noticed a bright light. We thought it was a car coming. I estimated that the object was approximately half mile away from the park truck. I estimated this distance because we were over half a mile away from the next crossroad and the object seemed to be quite far away.

Michael Ryan

In the field in question five, was there any illumination of the object except for the red lights on top of the poles? How were you able to make out the form of the object in the darkness?

Christine Scott

There were nine poles with red lights on top. There seemed to be a flange that stuck out about a foot and appeared to encircle the object. I was able to make out the form of the object because the object gave off a light which seemed to light up the sky and also the moon was shining.

Michael Ryan

Question 6. What particular phase of the event perturbed your friend who was in the truck with you? It is my understanding from your previous conversation that she did not observe anything to emerge from the object. But something must have frightened her.

Christine Scott

As my girlfriend and I sat in the truck watching the object, we talked about what it could be. I told her it might be a ufo. This made her a little nervous. I told her I was going to walk over to the object. She then became scared as she didn't want to to sit alone nor come with me.

Michael Ryan

And then question seven. When you return to the original position after driving your friend home, how were you able to locate the object when it was two miles away? And what was the relationship of this new position to the original one? Possibly a little sketch map of the area would help here.

Christine Scott

After I took my girlfriend home, I returned to find the UFO had moved northwest of where it originally was. I estimated it to be a couple of miles away. And it was hovering over. It was hovering a little above the ground. This is why I could still see it. I know it was the UFO because it took off and disappeared into the night.

Michael Ryan

In question eight, please describe the general weather conditions, including remarks on clouds, temperature, and the presence or absence of the moon.

Christine Scott

It. It was a Beautiful night, about 32 Fahrenheit. There were some light clouds, but otherwise clear. The moon was showing and the stars were out. And the northern lights could be seen easily. There also could be seen quite a few falling stars as my girlfriend and I sat watching the ufo.

Michael Ryan

And then he concludes the letter. He says, I will very much appreciate your cooperation with. With us in this matter. Very sincerely yours. Which is certainly a delightful letter for someone who is not interested.

Christine Scott

Yeah, and that's a good letter.

Michael Ryan

I Also like that Mr. Adams kept calling the woman his girlfriend. And in his letter he keeps calling her your friend.

Christine Scott

Yeah. And there is. There is a lovely sketch.

Michael Ryan

Yes, it's a very detailed sketch.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

So Christine is going to read. After he had answered all the formal questions, Mr. Adams then wrote a couple of paragraphs after that. So Christine will finish that correspondence off now.

Christine Scott

I will try to draw you a sketch of the object as I saw it that night. It was oval in shape and looked orange, orangey yellow in color. There were nine red lights on rods on top of the object, arranged in clusters of three. There was a dark flange that appeared to go around the object and stood out a distance of about a foot. Above this piered a window about a window about a foot high and a bright yellow light from this area. The rest of the object was a light orange color. And then there's a very good sketch. Well, I hope this answers all your questions, but if there is anything else you don't understand, please don't hesitate to write back and ask me. I will be more. More than willing to help if I can. If you find out any of my other information about the UFO or a little silver man I saw, would you please contact me and let me know? I am very interested in UFOs. I would like to learn more about this. Sincerely yours, Gerald Adams.

Michael Ryan

So, Christine, on November 25, 1970, Peter Millman sent another letter to Mr. Adams. I'm going to read that now. He says thank you for your very clear and complete answer to my list of questions. There is only one additional point that I would like to confirm. You mentioned that the moon was shining and yet my calculations would indicate that according to your position, the moon would not have been risen on the night of October 23rd or 24th until over one hour after 1am you listed for your original sighting. I didn't question you specifically on the date, but it would appear that either your statement of the date which was Friday, October 23rd or 24th, or your statement about the Moon must be an error. Which is the better assumption? That you made the observation on an earlier date or that your memory of the moon relates relates to a later period than 1am possibly to when you drove back after you had taken your friend home? I would very much appreciate your opinion on this point. In looking for an explanation of what you observed, there is one possibility that occurs to us. And while it may not be correct solution of the problem, I will note it here. The direction you gave for the sighting of the object is almost exactly the direction of Nepawa. Nepawa has at least two high towers lit with red construction warning lights for aircraft. And there may be other high warning lights in the town. If on the night you were out there occurred a rather rare type of looming mirage, the town of Nepawa would appear quite similar to what you described as seen from your location. As the mirage condition degenerated, the appearance would correspond to what you described after you returned later and eventually it would disappear. Your comment of the frequency of meteors or shooting stars that night is interesting since this was close to the maximum of the Orionoid meteor shower. Bright meteors from this shower would travel in general from a southwest to a northwest direction. And is possible that very bright fireball produced the intense light which first called your attention to the phenomenon. And you may have assumed that the mirage was the landed object. Again, I stress that this is not necessarily the correct explanation for what you saw. I have no ready explanation for the Small Silver man. But I note that your observation of this phenomenon was in a direction nearly at right angles to that in which you saw the ufo. It is quite possible that what you saw as the Little Silver man was not associated in any way with the other phenomenon. Thank you again for your cooperation reporting this to us. We have placed this record on file. With very best wishes. Sincerely yours, Peter Millman.

Christine Scott

Oh, and you'll love to hear his reply.

Michael Ryan

Yeah, so. Yes, so. Peter Pete. Peter Millman makes it's. It's Just so odd that Millman and many, many, many others like him, whenever they hear the UFO story.

Narrator/Announcer

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

They always have the answer. Oh, you know, it was a falling star that was 45 miles away and if it the right conditions happened and you were upside down and if there was a little bit of fog and there was a mirage, then of course you would have seen the Silverman. Silly like.

Christine Scott

Yeah. And Gerald Adams reply. Reminds me of the letters I used to have to write to the government when I was the president of actra. It's the same. Dear sir, unfortunately I must correct you, so I will read from that. It is, it is. I thought, man, I've written letters like this.

Michael Ryan

So this is Gerald Adams response to the November 25th letter which he wrote on December 3rd, 1970.

Christine Scott

Yeah. Dear sir, I received your letter, file number M45 1101 and do not agree with your conclusion of the light being a mirage of the town light from Nepoa. It is too far away to be that. And why has no one's seen them before? I am absolutely positive that what I saw was not light on a tower, but that of a UFO about the moon shining that night. My girlfriend and I were certain the moon was shining when we first saw the object. The time I saw the object was 1am Oct. 24. Thank you for your interest concerning my experience. Good luck. Like, that's a mic drop there then. Yours truly, Gerald Adams. Mic drop.

Michael Ryan

Yeah. So he wasn't too happy about. About all the assumptions that.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And I think to myself, poor Peter didn't even want to send the darn letter. He doesn't even care. And now he's.

Narrator/Announcer

Well then.

Christine Scott

And then Peter sends a reply to that.

Michael Ryan

Yeah. So I know. So I know that Peter doesn't have lots of time because I've seen the many, many letters that he's writing to all these people and it's not even really his job. Like he's, you know, probably went to college, university to study meteorites, and he's sending letters to people who've seen UFOs.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

So now this one, unlike his other letters, and I don't know why, so his other letters looked like they were just on blank pieces of paper.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

So this final correspondence, oh, it's got the official logo at the top. You know, the National Research Council, it's got the logo, it's got everything you'd want up at the top. So he sent this letter back December 8th.

Christine Scott

So.

Michael Ryan

Wow, he's chugging along. So. Dear Mr. Adams, thank you for your letter of December 3rd. I am glad to have your opinion on the two points I raised in my last letter. If we get any further light on your experiences, we will let you know. Again, may I express the appreciation of this office for your cooperation with us on this occasion. Very sincerely yours, Peter M. Millman. Wow. Yeah.

Christine Scott

Isn't that. Do you think that's a don't bother us anymore letter? It reminds me of. You probably heard the apocryphal story of someone, you know, in the days of rail travel sent a letter to the head of a train company about bedbugs.

Michael Ryan

Yes.

Christine Scott

And he. You probably, everybody probably heard this story. He accidentally got the in house reply back that said send the SOB the bedbug letter instead of the actual reply. And I thought this is kind of the bedbug letter response.

Michael Ryan

No, it's. It's very. So what really stands out for this correspondence for me when now that we've heard all the angles of it, is obviously Mr. Adams, he took all of this very seriously. Whatever he saw, he, boy, what is going on? And he was, you know, so possessed with what happened. He contacted the Canadian military and also the rcmp and he ended up having to talk to Peter Millman. So definitely this was very important for him.

Christine Scott

It was.

Michael Ryan

I don't think people would go to this length if they were just goofing around or didn't care or didn't know what they saw.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And also it brings up that Captain Winterburn. So he recorded the conversation. It would be interesting to know how often that happened. I'm going to say not very often because now you'd probably have to make out forms for the tape. You'd have to send the tape somewhere. That seems like a lot of extra effort.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And so something. We should also point out that. So a long time ago when I would read these stories about the person had seen a humanoid figure near the craft. You know, I had been dismissive of that many decades ago because I thought that was a time where that was just a bridge too far. Like you couldn't really think of that. But after all these years of reading so many different reports and books and all that kind of stuff, while there is not lots of these kind of reports, there are enough that it stands out that there is a humanoid figure in a silvery gray outfit with something that looks like a helmet is near the craft. That has happened quite enough times that definitely. It's definitely something. And you know, it's. There's another case, we mentioned this last week that some of These cases I just am able to work on a little bit at a time, and some of them takes a long time to make any kind of progress. But there was another case that happened in Canada, it was almost five years to the day that Gerald Adams saw his craft is another person. He saw a humanoid by a craft.

Christine Scott

Yeah.

Michael Ryan

And that case I've been working on for over two years, we've got a little bit further, but it's such an important case. I want to make sure I have it exactly right. And believe it or not, this case, it happened in Canada, but it involved the White House, if you can believe that. I mean, it sounds crazy. How could this be true? But trust me, if this all comes together, and I just want to mention, I want to give a shout out to the late Christopher o', Brien, who was a ufologist who died not that long ago. And I have interviewed him on the show and behind the scenes, he was helping me on that case. He was trying to get in touch with some people who had worked at the White House during that, that era. But unfortunately now I'll never know because he's, he's passed away. But there's a lot of interesting things going on. And this story, it just jumped out at me because it would be so easy to dismiss this because, oh, the guy saw a humanoid in a silver outfit. He had a helmet. Okay, like, how much did you have to drink? Like. But now when you look at it through different eyes and there's lots of other people who had similar events happen, he just sounds sincere, like the person who wrote this letter. It doesn't, it doesn't come across as someone trying to pull a prank. To me, people who do pranks, they want a quick payoff. Like, they don't, they don't want to be involved in a correspondence with someone for several weeks and keep writing letters

Christine Scott

like, yeah, and he was thorough, he was sincere, he was very straightforward. He provided sketches of his work. And speaking of the silver humanoid things, and I brought this up earlier with you, is that when I was doing a little things, the Prairie Dog, about UFO sightings Saskatchewan in the 30s in Nipan, a craft was reported landing and some. Something came out, the silver suit and started fixing the craft. So the Prairies have seen silver suited figures over the past few decades.

Michael Ryan

So, Christine, another, some of, some behind the scenes information is that Mr. Gerald Adams, he is most likely still alive because I was able to find out some other information here that wasn't in these documents. So he would be 72 years old. So Most probably still alive. So we are trying to track him down now as we talk. And how great would that be to have an interview with, with him so many years later and to find out. And also to get the audio recording also would be great to get that. Now that I have less, less hopes for because a lot of the access to information requests that I put into the Canadian government, they take a long time to get back. I mean, we'd probably get it back in season four probably because it normally take seven or eight months for people to get back to me. But definitely these RCMP cases are providing a lot of excellent information. And to me it's really changing the misleading information that Canada never had very many great UFO reports. I would say that is certainly untrue. Just what we found. And we're just going through these reports from just from the RCMP that took place in around a 10 year period. So, you know, there's probably very, very good reports. Just the ones we've covered are some of, some of the best, I would say that that have been around the world and a lot of those we're still working on. I know that's a, it's an old, it's an old song. But eventually we hope to have a lot of these people interviewed and find out more facts as time goes on. So if any of our listeners in Manitoba, if they know how to put me into contact with Gerald Adams, boy, we would love to interview him and hear what he had to say about this event because it's pretty spectacular and probably there's more information than what was written in this report because the ones that we have followed up on with people, there's always more information than what was written down and it makes it even a better case than what we thought. Mm. So stay tuned.

Narrator/Announcer

Here are the Canadian civil aviation anomalies for the week of December 30, 2024 through January 3, 2025. On December 30, a British Airways Boeing aircraft flying from London Gatwick Airport to Cancun International Airport reported a long line of visible lights moving eastbound quickly. No reported traffic in the area. On Dec. 31, La Ronge Airport, Saskatchewan was advised of a remotely piloted aircraft System operation approximately four nautical miles south southwest of La Ronge Airport at 400ft above ground level. On January 3rd, on approach to Moncton International Airport, a cargo Jet Airways Boeing aircraft flying from Hamilton International Airport to Moncton International Airport reported a flashing blue light from the north of their approach for Runway 29 at approximately six nautical miles on final approach. There was no impact on operations and all flights proceeded to their destinations without further incident.

Michael Ryan

Well, that's our podcast for this week. Please share, subscribe and do all those good things to help spread the word about UFO Talker. And until next time, this is Michael Ryan. Keep watching the skies.

Narrator/Announcer

You have been listening to the UFO Talker. If you have any questions or comments on this episode, you can email us@ufotalkerl.net or visit our website at ufotalker ca. You can support UFO Talker by using the Buy me a Coffee app with links on our website and in the show notes. We appreciate every listener. Thank you for your support. This has been a Michael Ryan production.

Christine Scott

30 that's a rat.