El Cid (Radio Edit)

Professor Nora Behrend

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Greg Jenner

Hello and welcome to youo're Dead to me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name's Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today we are gathering a band of mercenaries and galloping back to 11th century Spain to learn about legendary warrior and all around lad El Cid. And to join our quest, we have two very special comrades in arms in History Corner. She's professor of European history at the University of Cambridge where she specializes in medieval social and religious history. She's the author of the fascinating book El Cid the Life and Afterlife of a Medieval Mercenary. It's Professor Nora Behrend. Welcome, Nora.

Professor Nora Behrend

Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. And can someone take good care of my horse while I'm here?

Greg Jenner

Yes. Pop it in the stables. No worries. Annie, Comedy Corner. Annie, Comedy Corner. He's an award winning stand up and comedy writer. You might have seen him on Richard Osmond's House of Games. Comedians giving lectures, Outsiders late night mash. Maybe you've seen his recent smash hit stand up show. Accessible pigeon material. Is there any other kind? And you'll remember him from our past episodes on Frederick Douglass and the causes of the British Civil Wars. It's Tucson Douglas. Welcome back, Toussaint.

Toussaint Douglas

Thanks for having me, Greg. Absolute pleasure to be here. This is without doubt my favorite podcast on the BBC about history.

Greg Jenner

Thank you. The caveats started rolling in last time out, Toussaint. We were on home turf with the British Civil Wars. I know you're quite good on politics and history.

Toussaint Douglas

Yeah.

Greg Jenner

So how comfortable are you with medieval Spain?

Toussaint Douglas

I'm going to be completely honest with you, Greg. Spanish historical figures, not my forte. All right. I know Chris. We all know Chris. Right? You don't even have to say his Last name we all know. Chris. What? I'm talking about akabusi. Chris Akabusi, 1992 Olympics bronze medalist. I'm obviously talking about Christopher Columbus, Catherine of Aragon. I know I know them. And then it gets quite sketchy. We're on to Don Quixote. Oh, that's called one. Yeah. I'm not even sure if these people are actually real people, but I know them.

Greg Jenner

Yeah, the last two are fictional, but that's fine. So the name El Cid, nothing's going off in your brain?

Toussaint Douglas

I mean, first off, let's just. It's a great name, right? Yeah, it sounds like the name of like a lead singer of like a Spanish punk band. You know what I mean? Yes. And also a cleaning product. You know, El Cid. And the dirt is quitado. You know, that's what's rigging for me when you say El Cid. But no, I don't know who he is.

Greg Jenner

Okay, well, you know, that's fine. That's all good. So whaddya know? This is the. So what do you know? This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener, will know about today's subject. And if you're tuning in from Spain, you will probably be familiar with El Cid. For everyone else, I reckon you're half remembering a dead guy on a horse from the classic 1961 movie El Cid, starring Charlton Heston and Sophia Loren. She did not play the horse. Just joking and listener. Actually, if you're in the UK, you can watch the El Cid movie on BBC iPlayer. It's there right now and it's there for a while. And of course, in that movie, El Cid is portrayed as a Christian hero who fights Muslim invaders. If you're a gamer like me a bit, you will know El Cid from the Crusader Kings games and the Total War Games. My absolute faves. But who was the man behind the myth? Does his real life live up to legend? And can a corpse really lead an army? Let's find out. Okie dokie. Nora, we're calling this guy El Cid. First name El, last name Sid.

Professor Nora Behrend

I'm afraid not. El is the Castilian vernacular, the. And Sid comes from the Arabic. It's a distorted Arabic term from said lord. It used to be thought that he was called me Sid, my lord, by his Muslim subjects and that it was a unique honorific. This has now been very much questioned because the first source that calls him that is later after he died, he was called Campeador Battler in his lifetime.

Greg Jenner

Right.

Professor Nora Behrend

And so it may well Be that even Sid. But certainly El Cid, the Lord is just kind of part of the later legend already.

Greg Jenner

Do we have a real name for him though? What's our Rodrigo?

Professor Nora Behrend

Rodrigo Diaz or RUY Diaz. So at the time, Rodrigo and Rui were sort of the same name.

Greg Jenner

Is Diaz a surname or is it a middle name?

Professor Nora Behrend

So Diaz is basically they used patronymics. So from your father's name you had this. So his father was Diego. So he was Diaz.

Greg Jenner

Okay, so Rodrigo Diaz, not really El Cid until later on. So we'll call him Rodrigo. We'll call him Rodrigo. That's the guy. Okay. We've done a full episode already, listeners on Al Andalus, which you can go listen to in the back catalogue. It's lots of fun. But can we have a quick refresher? What sort of world is Rodrigo Diaz born into?

Professor Nora Behrend

It was a time of opportunity and political upheaval. We don't really know exactly when he was born, but it's kind of middle of the 11th century. So to go back a little bit, in the early 8th century, an Arab led Berber conquest arrived in the Iberian Peninsula. And in the wake of that, Al Andalus, a Muslim society developed. And this Al Andalus was the main power on the Iberian Peninsula for quite a long time, until 1031, when the last Caliph, Hisham III, was overthrown.

Greg Jenner

You've mentioned the Arabs and the Berbers there. Could you explain the differences between them?

Professor Nora Behrend

The Arabs converted to Islam, were the first followers of Muhammad. The bear bears of North Africa were relatively recently converted, or not yet quite converted to Islam at this point. So the leadership consisted of the Arabs. But a lot of the army invading the peninsula were bear bears from North Africa. And then Al Andalus fragmented into a lot of what are called Taifa principalities. There were 33 of them initially.

Greg Jenner

Wow. So one kingdom turned into 33.

Professor Nora Behrend

Exactly. So huge change. And it also meant that the northern Christian kingdoms, which were slowly emerging sort of after the early 8th century, by the 11th century, there was Leon, Castile and Argonne who were the main players on the Christian side. They now had the upper hand. So these Christians from the north could start raiding into the south.

Greg Jenner

So Toussaint, what do you think of Pequeno Rodrigo's childhood? You know, imagine his childhood was like, what class do you think he's born into and what do you think his. His early days are?

Toussaint Douglas

He ended up as my lord. The lord. So I guess there's got to be some sort of lordiness involved in his childhood.

Greg Jenner

Is that A technical term.

Toussaint Douglas

Yeah, I'm from Lewisham. I have no idea. I think he wasn't a commoner, but he was a fighter.

Greg Jenner

Right.

Toussaint Douglas

So actually can't have been that high up because they didn't get their hands dirty. Okay, so I'm thinking he was middle class, but he, you know, he would secretly shop at Lidl's. In terms of nobility, that's kind of where he was back then. I don't know. I have no idea.

Greg Jenner

I think that's a really good guess. I think that's a good summary, Nora.

Professor Nora Behrend

We know for his father, who is Diego Lenas, who was definitely from the aristocracy. And one Source from the 12th century mentions that his mother was also from the aristocracy. But there are debates about who exactly she was. We know that he appeared at the court of the then infanta Sancho. So Prince who later on became Sancho II. So in the early 1060s, he appears as a warrior. And when Sancho becomes king, 1065, Rodrigo is kind of an established warrior and he leads the king's retinue.

Greg Jenner

Okay, you said Sancho ii. He's the king of Leon, Castile. Is that a combination of two kingdoms that have been smushed together?

Professor Nora Behrend

Yes, exactly. So Spanish kingdoms at this time are joined, then separated, then joined again.

Toussaint Douglas

So, yeah, quite troubled relationship history. Yeah.

Professor Nora Behrend

So Fernando I, who was king of Leon, Castile, left his realm divided between his three sons when he died in 1065.

Greg Jenner

Oh, he did a King Lear.

Professor Nora Behrend

So, yes.

Toussaint Douglas

Absolute rookie, what he did.

Professor Nora Behrend

So Sancho ii, Alfonso VI and Garcia ii, and they immediately started fighting it out. So first Alfonso, Sancho together defeated and exiled Garcia, and then Sancho turned against Alfonso and defeated and exiled him. And then he started besieging a fortress of his sister Uraka, his sister as well, and met a very sticky end because apparently an assassin stuck a spear in his back that allowed Alfonso to return and claim the throne.

Toussaint Douglas

I'm sorry, but can you still be called an assassin if you kill them with a spear? That's hardly subtle, isn't it?

Greg Jenner

Who's the king now? I've lost track of who.

Professor Nora Behrend

Alfonso vi.

Greg Jenner

Thank you. Alfonso VI is now king.

Professor Nora Behrend

He reunites Sloane Castile.

Greg Jenner

Okay, so he brings the kingdoms back together. Great. Toussaint, how do you think Rodrigo Diaz navigated this new court politics? Now that, you know, the siblings have fought it out, what do you reckon he does?

Toussaint Douglas

I mean, you gotta get straight in there with the new king, right? That's gotta be your go to move, right? I didn't even like Sancho ii. You were always my favorite. Alfonso. Come on, Alfonso the six, let's go.

Greg Jenner

Okay, you're a smooth talker. Okay, I can see that. Nora, was Rodrigo, you know, was he smooth and loyal to the new king? Did he fare with a friend or. Absolutely ride or die with the new king?

Professor Nora Behrend

Well, loyalty was definitely not Rodrigo's strong suit. So you're quite right about sort of immediately wanting to get on the good side of the king. So, yeah, he basically switched to Alfonso's court and he became one of Alfonso's warriors. Eventually he fell out with Alfonso. So Alfonso was the protector of one of these Muslim taifa kingdoms, Toledo. But when there was a Muslim attack, plundering attack against Castile, Rodrigo retaliated by raiding Toledo. So obviously that put Alfonso in a very nasty spot because one of his own warriors was raiding an area he was supposed to be protecting. So Alfonso ended up exiling Rodrigo.

Greg Jenner

Right.

Toussaint Douglas

It feels like he's a guy, he doesn't like having a boss. Feels like he wants to work for himself, you know what I mean? He feels like he's more suited to kind of like being self employed.

Greg Jenner

A freelance, if you will. There you go.

Toussaint Douglas

Someone who really, on the battlefield, put the lance into freelance. Exactly.

Greg Jenner

The tree is the back. Yeah. What we haven't mentioned, actually, he's married. So who's Mrs. Rodrigo?

Professor Nora Behrend

She's Jimena. They married around 1074. She is also from an aristocratic family, related in fact to King Alfonso vi. And when Rodrigo goes into exile, she takes their children back to her family, probably. They have three children, two daughters, Cristina and Maria, and probably a son, Diego, although he's only mentioned in a later source.

Greg Jenner

What do you think wifeless, childless, Rodrigo gets up to in his exile?

Toussaint Douglas

I think he's getting a lot of good sleep, I think, that's for sure. He's getting his eight hours in.

Greg Jenner

Spoken like a new dad.

Toussaint Douglas

Yeah. Beauty sleeping. I'm a bit jealous, actually, of this Rodrigo guy.

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Greg Jenner

Understandable, you say getting a lot of sleep. He's a mercenary commander, Nora.

Professor Nora Behrend

Yeah, I'm not so sure he's getting lots of sleep, actually. And he first tried to go to the court of the Count of Barcelona, who was not interested in him. So he ends up going to one of these Muslim taifa kingdoms, Zaragoza.

Greg Jenner

He's working for Islamic rulers and armies. Is this controversial and rare or is this like just par for the course?

Professor Nora Behrend

It's very much part of the course. It's not at all unusual at the time. And in fact, Christian kings had more of a chance dying by the hands of other Christians, including their relatives, than dying fighting Muslims. And usually in these wars, Christian Muslim alliances fought against other Christian Muslim alliances. So it's quite a misnomer to sort of see this as some kind of Christian war against Muslims. The rhetoric of Christian war basically coexisted with this kind of much more pragmatic and indiscriminate fighting.

Toussaint Douglas

In reality, he's not like this religious zealot kind of warrior. He's just like a member of the gig economy, basically.

Greg Jenner

Right. But in 1086, Rodrigo went back to Team Alfonso. Did they kiss and make up? Was this, you know, is this a sort of lovely reunion?

Professor Nora Behrend

It's unclear whether he initiated this return or the King, because the background was basically a huge shock that was produced by the actions of Alfonso vi. Up until then, kings were collecting tribute. The Muslims got used to that. But Alfonso then decided to send the Taifa ruler of Toledo to Valencia. So he just removed him, gave him another kingdom, and annexed Toledo in 1085.

Greg Jenner

Wow.

Professor Nora Behrend

And that was symbolically significant because it used to be the capital before the Arab Berber conquest. So this was very important symbolically, but it said sent a kind of wave of panic through the Taifa rulers, who then called the Moroccan Almoravids in to help them. So the Almoravids invaded from Morocco, from Morocco by the sea, overseas, and immediately defeated Alfonso, who was now absolutely desperate for warriors. But in 1089, so indeed, very quickly, the King and Rodrigo fell out again. This time, the Almoravids, together with Taifa armies, were besieging Aledo. And Rodrigo seems to have found a very lame excuse for not showing up. And the King obviously was not pleased by this. He had Rodrigo's family imprisoned, he confiscated all his lands, and he exiled him again. So with his retinue, some of his men deserted him, but enough were left to kind of carry out, raise for himself and to reward his followers. So basically, he's now just trying to build up a power base for himself.

Greg Jenner

So he's a startup, he's a entrepreneur.

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Toussaint Douglas

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Professor Nora Behrend

And then he starts really focusing on Valencia and collecting tribute for himself from there. Continues to fight against Muslims and Christians fairly indiscriminately, believe it or not, he and King Afonso try to cooperate again, and this time, fallout because Rodrigo places his camp in front of the kings. Rodrigo claims that this is because he's trying to protect the King, but the King sees it as absolute arrogance. They have various angry exchanges and confrontations to the point where Alfonso wants to have Rodrigo captured, but Rodrigo, at that point, escapes.

Greg Jenner

What's next for Rodrigo? Like, you know, he can't just keep this up, can he? He can't just keep allying and falling out with people.

Professor Nora Behrend

Well, he actually has his big break at this point.

Greg Jenner

Oh, right. Okay.

Professor Nora Behrend

So as the Almoravids are conquering some of the lands of the Iberian Peninsula, there's an uprising in Valencia. And this ruler, Al Qadir, who had been installed by Alfonso VI as his protege, who is very, very unpopular, is now overthrown, captured and executed. And the city's judge, Ibn Jahaf, takes power.

Greg Jenner

Okay, and where is Valencia in the geography of Spain? Is it west Spain?

Professor Nora Behrend

Well, it's on the eastern coast, and it was quite far down in Muslim lands at this point.

Toussaint Douglas

Okay.

Greg Jenner

On the eastern coast. Okay, thank you. Rodrigo has seized this city. He seized Valencia.

Professor Nora Behrend

Well, so, I mean, he had been collecting tribute from there. And so he has men who were then either captured during this rebellion or had to flee. And it's at this point that Rodrigo decides to besiege the city.

Greg Jenner

Right.

Professor Nora Behrend

So the siege means surrounding the city, starving it, raiding the surrounding countryside. And Ibn Jahaf tries to get help from the Almoravids, who do send an army. But torrential reigns, and Rodrigo, cutting the dams of the river Turia, floods the area between the Almoravids and Rodrigo's army. So Rodrigo basically foils this plan to get outside help. And in the end, in 1094, Valencia surrenders, and Rodrigo becomes its ruler. Now, so he officially calls himself and is called by his subjects princeps. Prince, which is a kind of term for rulers who are not kings.

Greg Jenner

So he's Prince Rodrigo.

Toussaint Douglas

Okay. Yeah, it's gone up.

Greg Jenner

It's kind of worked out for him.

Toussaint Douglas

Yeah.

Professor Nora Behrend

Actually, he died. He died in classic move 1099, of natural causes. And he did not leave a male heir, so no son who could have.

Greg Jenner

Oh, so the son in the source that you talked about, the Diego son, he would have died. Okay. He died, and his daughters would inherit.

Professor Nora Behrend

So his widow, Ximena inherited. His daughters were married. They were married. But it was Ximena who then ruled Valencia for three years. But then the Almoravids started to besiege Valencia, and Jimena asked Alfonso VI for help. So at this point, yeah, it's difficult to hold the city against this army. And Alfonso does arrive with an army.

Greg Jenner

He does.

Professor Nora Behrend

Yeah, he does. Oh, fair play, Alfonso, he doesn't seem to bear grudges. Yes.

Greg Jenner

He had every reason be like, nope.

Professor Nora Behrend

I mean, also, of course, remember, she was a kinswoman of him and of his. And of course, Rodrigo was already dead, but. So, yeah, he arrives with an army, lifts the siege, but he cannot maintain the defense of Valencia so far away from his own land. So basically, the city is evacuated. Everybody with their possessions go north to Castile. Alfonso has the city burned, so not to leave it intact for the Almoravids. And Ximena also takes Rodrigo's remains and has him reburied in a monastery called San Pedro de Cardena.

Greg Jenner

Don't get up yet, though, Toussaint. We're not done yet, because we're gonna now talk about the kind of the afterlife of Rodrigo, or rather El Cid, this whole other guy that he becomes. Is it a religious revival?

Professor Nora Behrend

A series of people and reasons? Actually, there is this kind of religious rhetoric which is indeed important. And in the 12th, 13th centuries, especially the war, that was still a much messier war on the ground, but it was increasingly accompanied by a kind of ecclesiastical rhetoric which presented it at least as sort of Christian war against Muslims. It wasn't quite matching realities, but you have that very strong rhetoric of the restoration of Christian lands. Two more reasons, really. One was the creation of a prestigious past for Castile, because Castile, by the 13th century became the most important Christian kingdom. But at the start, it didn't have a particularly illustrious beginning. So now they're looking for Castilian heroes. So here is Elfed. And then finally the monastery, the monastery of San Pedro de Cardena, where he's buried. The monks are fantastic producers of all kinds of stories and tales and really foster, yes, really foster his culture. So they kind of create these fictional links between the live Rodrigo, as if he had already sort of chosen the monastery in all kinds of ways. And they of course, want to attract donations and also have this very prestigious patron and they actually try to have him canonized as a saint eventually.

Greg Jenner

Oh, really? And Toussaint, in one medieval text, El Cid's death was famously rewritten. Do you know what it says?

Toussaint Douglas

Is it the he rides his horse even though he's dead?

Greg Jenner

Yep, that's right. Yeah.

Toussaint Douglas

He managed to ride his horse, which sounds weird. Spied his men to victim.

Greg Jenner

That's it.

Professor Nora Behrend

Well, yes, although it's kind of even more intriguing than that because according to the story, which was written in the 13th century and then incorporated into the official court chronicles of the Castilian kings,

Toussaint Douglas

the horse was also dead.

Professor Nora Behrend

No. Although the horse could also be an important player later on. But according to the.

Toussaint Douglas

This becomes a king as well. I'm going to get on this, actually. I'm going to get on this king economy. I'm not making way enough money as the horse. I'm going to be a ruler. Actually, I've changed my mind.

Professor Nora Behrend

So St. Peter appears to Rodrigo, foretelling his death and a victory after death.

Greg Jenner

Wow. So then, good news, bad news. Yeah, exactly.

Professor Nora Behrend

Which one do you want first? And Rodrigo prepares for this for seven days. He doesn't eat, he just drinks a bit of water mixed with myrrh and balsam. So he basically is embalming himself while he's still alive. So indeed he dies. A Muslim army led by Bukhar attacks for nine days. They fight against them and of course, people don't know what's going on. Rodrigo doesn't come, doesn't appear, and then after that, they put him in his armor, strap him on his horse, fix his sword in his hand, and together with the army, he sort of charges out, helped by no other than St. James the Apostle, along with the heavenly host. So I think you cannot do better than that. And of course, they defeat the Muslim army. The text also then deprives the Muslims of the victory, of taking, of retaking Valencia, because according to this, Rodrigo wanted to be buried at San Pedro de Cardena. So immediately after he dies. So after this victory, they take the corpse to be buried, and everybody wants to participate. So the whole town is empty because all the inhabitants go to bury him in San Pedro so the Muslims can take the city.

Greg Jenner

So it's not an evacuation, they've just all gone to the funeral.

Professor Nora Behrend

Yeah, exactly.

Toussaint Douglas

Different take on an open casket funeral, isn't it?

Professor Nora Behrend

Just one line about the horse. Because according to the same text, the horse is then taken very good care of at the monastery. So he has this very long, nice life, and they make sure that there are lots of fillies. So his line is perpetuated.

Toussaint Douglas

I'm sorry, what is this text? And what was the person who wrote that text? Smoking? Because this is.

Professor Nora Behrend

You want some of that? But he was a monk, I'm afraid.

Greg Jenner

So he's called El Cid by this point. Right. The name Rodrigo has sort of turned into the Lord. So there we go. Quite the life. Toussaint, where do you stand?

Toussaint Douglas

I'm still a bit of a fan. Yeah, he's a go getter, you know, and he's done his thing.

Greg Jenner

He go gets and then sets fire, too.

Toussaint Douglas

Go gets, sets fire and then leaves. Yeah.

Greg Jenner

The Nuance Window. Time now for the Nuance Window. This is where Toussaint and I sit quietly and snack on our myrrh and balsam so we can mummify ourselves for two minutes. Professor Nora rides into battle, hopefully still alive, to tell us something we need to know about El Cid. Rodrigo Diaz. My stopwatch is ready. Take it away. Professor Behrend, what I think is very

Professor Nora Behrend

intriguing is not simply how Rodrigo Diaz was transformed into El Cid, but how that mythical construct then became a kind of mascot and rallying cry for both the right and the left. And even, of course, today, now the new right and far right again uses El Cid as a kind of prototype white supremacist fighting against Muslims and migrants. But very strangely, he's also been picked up as a model guy. For peaceful coexistence and multiculturalism. So somebody who lived together with and learned from Muslims. So I think this is a very interesting mixture. And of course, the left wing use of the Cid goes back already to early modern times, when this legend developed about him enforcing this oath so that the nobles would not accept Alfonso VI until he swears he had nothing to do with his brother's murder, Sancho's murder. That turns Cid into a kind of person who can hold kings to justice, someone who's against tyranny. And so in early modern times, he's already represented in this way. And in the 19th century, when in 1820, Colonel Riego reintroduced the liberal constitution, there was a song written for the so called anthem of Riego written for this, which then became the republican kind of national anthem there. The Cid is really kind of the representative of the good guys. The liberals are his sons. So I think this is quite a posthumous career for such an opportunistic warrior.

Greg Jenner

Amazing. Thank you so much. Two minutes on the clock. I mean, amazing. One minute 59.

Toussaint Douglas

That was brilliant. That was great.

Greg Jenner

So there we go. He's everything to everyone.

Toussaint Douglas

Yeah, I think for me, El Cid, to me, I'm gonna use El Cid, like when I have like a really bad gig, you know, when I, like really die, I'm just gonna die. It's just gonna die. I'm just gonna go like that.

Greg Jenner

Strap yourself to a horse.

Toussaint Douglas

Yeah, strap myself to a horse. And like when I. I have to go to like, I don't know, you know, slough for a gig or something, I'll just strap myself onto the horse.

Greg Jenner

Anyway, that was lots of fun. Thank you so much for that fascinating insight, listener. If you want more Spanish history, we have episodes of course, on Al Andalus or Hernan Cortes and Melanchin. For more famous medieval warriors, we've covered Joan of Arc. That's all the way back in series one. You have to scroll forever on the app. Sorry. We've done Oink, Glindeur in Wales and of course, for more Toussaint, we've gone into American history with Frederick Douglass, an extraordinary man, brilliant man and well worth knowing. Knowing about. And we did the courses the British Civil wars. So we've covered all sorts of stuff together.

Toussaint Douglas

Marvel episode it was.

Greg Jenner

If you've enjoyed the podcast, please share the show with your friends. Subscribe to youo're Dead to me on BBC Sounds to hear new episodes 28 days earlier than anywhere else. Lucky you. If you're outside the UK, you can listen@BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I'd just like to say a huge thank you to our guests. In History Corner we had the brilliant Professor Nora Behrend from the University of Cambridge. Thank you Nora.

Professor Nora Behrend

Thank you for inviting me.

Greg Jenner

It was an absolute hoot. What fun we had. And in Comedy Corner we had the terrific Toussaint Douglas. Thanks Toussaint.

Toussaint Douglas

Thank you so much for having me. To Greg, my absolute pleasure.

Greg Jenner

Very, very good. And to you, lovely listener. Join me next time as we peel back the layers on another larger than life historical figure. But for now I'm off to go and beg some monks to write flattering fan fiction about me when I die by. Do the wonder products that you see on your social media and supermarket shelves really deliver on their bold claims? Dehumidifiers, standing desks, Nail polish from supplements claiming to boost your mind and body. I've seen so many claims about creatine to fake tans promising a safe streak free glow. I really like it. I'm Greg foot and my BBC Radio 4 show sliced bread is back to separate more science factors from marketing fiction.

Professor Nora Behrend

I would tend to lean towards it being a positive.

Greg Jenner

All our suggestions come from your emails or voice notes, even if you're a bit under the weather. Hello Greg, I want to know about cough mixture. I'm finding out the answers in my new series of Sliced Bread, available first on BBC Sounds.

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