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What's up, y'?

Ben Henderson

All?

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Alice Loxton

Hello, your dead to me listeners. I'm Alice Loxton.

Ben Henderson

And I'm Ben Henderson.

Alice Loxton

We're big fans of youf're Dead to Me. So we're really looking forward to the new series, which is just around the corner.

Ben Henderson

But before it arrives, we're delighted to be able to pop into this feed and tell you about our new history podcast, which I hope you'll like too.

Alice Loxton

It's called Here for the History. Each episode we find out about how stories from the past have shaped our lives in the present.

Ben Henderson

Yes, we'll uncover the origin stories behind the traditions, stereotypes and beliefs that make up everyday life. Why we speak the way we do. Why football is our national sport. Who came up with a package holiday?

Alice Loxton

And in this episode, we're Telling the story of how the humble cup of tea became so ingrained in British culture.

Ben Henderson

It's a riveting tale and if you want to hear more unusual origin stories, listen, listen and subscribe to Hear for the history on BBC Sounds.

Alice Loxton

If you're outside the UK, you can listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ben Henderson

You can also watch us on our YouTube channel. Hello, I'm Ben Henderson.

Alice Loxton

And I'm Alice Loxton.

Ben Henderson

So, Alice, obviously I spend most of my free time with my nose in your best selling history book.

Alice Loxton

Thank you.

Ben Henderson

But I think the first time I came across you was when you posted a video online to your legions of followers about some black railings on the street in London which looked slightly misshapen. Am I right?

Alice Loxton

Oh, yes, people absolutely loved that video. It really went viral. There are these wonderful railings and they were actually used originally as stretchers in the Blitz in the Second World War. And people just love seeing the history behind these ordinary objects.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, it's fascinating. I love that. And I saw it was even written up in the papers.

Alice Loxton

Thank you, Ben. Thanks for reading. You're a loyal supporter.

Ben Henderson

Do right.

Alice Loxton

Well, I've also seen your stuff. You've been making history programmes for the BBC for years now and you have your own social videos about history too. I loved the video about the origins of the British stiff upper lip. I think that's the first one I saw of yours. And it was always something I just accepted but never really questioned why.

Ben Henderson

Ah, well, it's funny you should say that, Alice, because that's exactly what we're doing on our brand new podcast, isn't it? Here for the history.

Alice Loxton

Exactly. Ben, I'm so excited. We'll be uncovering the historical backstories that have shaped our lives.

Ben Henderson

Yes. So we'll be finding out things like how English turned into the language we speak today and how the suit became every man's uniform and even where the Weeknd came from.

Alice Loxton

And I've been really surprised by some of the things we found already. Some of it's really weird, some of it's quite dark and some of it's just hilarious. So I can't wait to reveal it all.

Ben Henderson

So, to you listening, we're here for the history. Now let's crack on with the first episode. Alice, could you start by telling me your dream morning routine?

Alice Loxton

Well, the first thing that I have every morning is a cup of tea, as I did this morning, and I'll get out of bed, try and wake up, and the first thing I do Is put the kettle on. I'll have an English breakfast tea. I've got a special mu. It's from the Durham Cathedral gift shop, which I.

Ben Henderson

Very historic.

Alice Loxton

Bought a few years ago. And I'll have, I'd say, a dash of milk, semi skim milk, and it normally ends up being the colour of a digestive biscuit. So I'm very particular about that. But if I get it right, it does set me up for a perfect day. What about you? How much milk do you have?

Ben Henderson

Well, I don't want to ruin my popularity this early in the show, but I'm actually more of a coffee man. No, but I know I'll have tea in the evenings, but, yeah, more of a coffee man. My mum is a tea addict.

Alice Loxton

Okay, good.

Ben Henderson

So I've seen the addiction in action.

Alice Loxton

Good. Yeah, sure you do a fellow tea obsessive.

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I love it.

Alice Loxton

Your mother and I would get on, no doubt.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, exactly. But I am interested in how particular people are with their tea routines. I've always been a bit of a, you know, just shove some milk in it. But obviously, you know, I'm a southerner living in the north, in Manchester, and if I go to make a round of tea for my colleagues at work and I put, you know, just slightly too much milk in, they'll just have a massive go at me like, oh, you're Southern, softy. Can't make a cup of tea, look at me with contempt.

Alice Loxton

I know people have such strong feelings about it, myself included, and perhaps you deserve that contempt. But it is. It is a big part of the British identity. And actually the anthropologist Kate Fox has written about this in her book Watching the English. She said that whenever the English feel awkward or uncomfortable in a social situation that is almost all the time, they make tea. So totally relatable.

Ben Henderson

How much does it say that? You've got a cup of tea right there.

Alice Loxton

Right, Yeah, I am feeling and uncomfortable. But the question is, why is tea so important? Did you know this is an amazing fact. Next to water, it's the most consumed beverage in the world.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, that is pretty remarkable.

Alice Loxton

So there's a lot of tea drinkers, There's a lot of us out there. But what about in Britain? How did something not native to Britain become intrinsically linked to British identity?

Ben Henderson

Well, Alice, the anticipation is brewing.

Alice Loxton

Oh, well done.

Ben Henderson

Welcome, everyone, to our new show here for the History from BBC Sounds. In the show, we'll be taking the stereotypes and traditions that make up everyday life and find out their historical origin story. Today, Alice is going to Take us through the history of tea and pin down, in her opinion, how we Brits got so obsessed with it. So, Alice, the kettle's boiling and I'm here for the history.

Alice Loxton

Chapter one, royal tea. Now, legend has it, 5,000 years ago, revered Chinese emperor and herbalist Shennong was relaxing under a Camellia sinensis tree as his servants prepared some boiling water to be drunk. As he did so, a leaf of the tree drifts off the branch and lands in the pot of boiling water. But instead of throwing it away, Shennong takes the a sip. He tries this new concoction. And there we have it. Tea is born.

Ben Henderson

Ah, unbelievable scenes, Alice, and beautifully told. Thank you. But this is, you know, an underrated moment in global history. Surely a huge moment shaped the lives of millions of people.

Alice Loxton

Now, there are a few origin stories of how tea was invented, but this is probably the most famous of all. But if we're going to be looking at the role that tea played in Britain's history, it actually starts much later in the 1600s. So a time of civil wars, Puritans, roughs, people wearing those big, wide brimmed hats, the plagues, the great fire of London, that sort of thing. And we're going to look at the year 1662. The Portuguese princess Catherine of Braganza is sailing through storms and rolling seas. She's in an English fleet traveling from Portugal to England for a pretty big moment in her life. She's going to marry King Charles II of England, who, by the way, at this point she's never actually met. So pretty full on for her. The thing about Catherine, though, she's only 23 years old, she grew up next to a nunnery. She's basically had this life of seclusion and strict religious studies. She's got this reputation for being pretty pious and quiet, kind of a mousey figure, you might say.

Ben Henderson

So if she's, you know, quite a shy person, naturally, this must have been a pretty daunting moment. I can imagine. You know, you've got to go over there, marry the King of England. I'm feeling the butterflies, I imagine.

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. And she's this diplomatic pawn in this great tangled web of European politics. The marriage is a great strategic alliance arranged by her father, King John IV of Portugal. And this is quite a common thing at the time for royal families to use marriage as a way to forge these partnerships. Nonetheless, she lands in Portsmouth on the 14th of May, 1662. It's been a terrible journey. She's been thrown around, tossed about in the sea by the storms. But finally, she steps off the boat, no doubt hugely relieved. And what is the first thing she asks for on dry land? Can you guess?

Ben Henderson

A pint at the local Wetherspoons. Not.

Alice Loxton

Not quite. Catherine of Braganza asks for a cup of tea and unfortunately, much to her disappointment, they don't have one to give her. So, though tea had actually already arrived in the UK by this point in the 1650s, and we know this because of the famous diari Samuel Pepys, it wasn't actually popular yet, so the princess, on arrival, was offered, you're right, Ben, a small ale instead.

Ben Henderson

Oh, well, my historical instincts have kicked in. There. You laughed. There we go.

Alice Loxton

She'd love an airport spoons, I'm sure. Now, a week later, Charles II comes down to Portsmouth and on this day, he meets Catherine of Braganza for the first time and they get married.

Ben Henderson

Oh, really? So it's not the, you know, big fancy royal wedding we're used to. No offense to Portsmouth, but not the most glamorous location in the world.

Alice Loxton

Well, it's quite low key, I suppose you might say. But they do go to London later on and they process into London and, you know, that's a great celebration. Of course, Charles is quite an extravagant man.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, well, just to paint a picture of Charles II then, for listeners. So he's often portrayed in portraits with a big shaggy dark wig going down past his shoulders. And he's known as a bit of a lad, isn't he? He famously reopens the taverns after the Puritans had tried to clamp down. Fun after the Civil War. But for the purposes of this marriage, his temperament's not great, is it? Because him and Catherine don't raise any surviving children, do they? And he has quite a lot of illegitimate kids with various mistresses, doesn't he? So he's not the best behaved.

Alice Loxton

He's got a lot of mistresses and he is known as the king of partying. So they are quite a kind of strange couple in some ways, this mousy girl from Portugal, but nonetheless, the key thing is that Catherine of Braganza, she is the new wife of Charles ii and she joins the English court. And in one sense, she's this great outsider because she's remained a Catholic, while the English court's religion is Protestantism, and she dresses in the Portuguese style. She has some quite funny habits which do actually catch on. She brings the fork in, which is, you know, a useful implement. She introduced marmalade. Again, very grateful for that. But most importantly, she Popularises tea.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable influence for one woman, isn't it?

Alice Loxton

Yeah.

Ben Henderson

She's like a early modern Alice Loxton. Great influencer.

Alice Loxton

Yeah. We're very similar in many ways. Now, as part of her dowry, Portugal provided a chest of tea. And this was already a very popular drink in the Portuguese court. This is partly because Portugal had established trade routes with the Far east and importantly, China, which is where the tea leaves come from. Now she serves this tea to her ladies in waiting and the ladies at court. So this sets a trend in England for the elites drinking tea. And we know that she would go and visit aristocratic families and drink tea at their houses. Places like Ham House, which is on the outskirts of London on the River Thames, which is a beautiful house.

Ben Henderson

Oh, have you been there?

Alice Loxton

I have been there and I've actually been to the cafe and drunk tea in the cafe. So, you know, repeating Catherine of Brick Anza's experiences.

Ben Henderson

Oh, very good firsthand research, Alice. I'm impressed.

Alice Loxton

Of course. Of course. I do my best.

Ben Henderson

Okay, so this tea as well, this would be tea coming from China, presumably, because that's where it's produced. And so it would have been green tea rather than the kind of black tea with milk that we'd later adopt in Britain as the centuries go by. Fascinating. But I'm interested to know how tea then spread from, you know, this elite circle revolving around Catherine of Braganza to wider society. So let me know how that happened.

Alice Loxton

Yes, Well, a big moment in the history of tea in Britain comes in 1706, because we get our first tea shop, an exciting moment. And it opened on the Strand, which is where many of the London elites were living after the Great Fire of London. And it was opened by a man called Thomas Twining.

Ben Henderson

Ah. Of Twining's Tea fame.

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. Actually, the shop still exists today, which is rather wonderful. But the key thing about the 18th century is that tea at this point was insanely expensive. Right. So this is because it had to be transported from China. That's the only place producing it at the time. And there were these massive taxes on importing it.

Ben Henderson

Okay, so how much are we paying for a cup of tea?

Alice Loxton

Okay, so by 1707, three and a half ounces of Twinings Gunpowder tea. It was called gunpowder tea because they had these tightly rolled leaves that looked like grains of gunpowder. This was sold at a price which would work out today as 160 pounds.

Ben Henderson

Okay, that sounds enormously expensive, but I don't really know actually how much. Three and a half ounces. Is what is three and a half ounces in tea?

Alice Loxton

Okay, so. Okay, so three and a half ounces is the same as 100 grams. It's about the same weight as four AA batteries or two medium eggs, if that's helpful.

Ben Henderson

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alice Loxton

100 paper clips. Can you envisage what that looks like?

Ben Henderson

No, not really.

Alice Loxton

Is this helpful or. Tree frog? It's the same weight as a tree frog.

Ben Henderson

Oh, well, now it's clear the price of tree frogs these days is a joke.

Alice Loxton

I'm always using tree frogs to measure out the flour, but yeah, so it's 100 paperclips worth of tea. Three and a half ounces costs £160. So what does that tell you? It's just very, very expensive.

Ben Henderson

Yeah. So ordinary people surely aren't able to access this kind of thing.

Alice Loxton

No. And of course, because it's taxed so highly and because there's such a big demand for it, people go outside the system and it creates this market for something that I know you'll love. Ben. Smugglers.

Ben Henderson

Absolutely. Well, I found this particularly interesting.

Alice Loxton

You're a pirate at heart.

Ben Henderson

I know, it's often said. Yeah. In the tea story. This is fascinating though, because it really demonstrates that demand for tea isn't just located among the aristocrats at the top. With Catherine, it's dispersed through society. So pirates are bringing the tea over from Holland and Portugal because there was far lower taxes over there than there was over here. And there's a lot of violence involved in this smuggling. But I found it really funny. It's not always the people you'd expect. The pirates, villains in society. There were teachers involved in the smuggling trade. There was members of the clergy. Yeah, there's all sorts.

Alice Loxton

Clergymen. You can never trust them. I've always said it so well. No, you're right. Well, it draws at the point that because of these high taxes, there was huge amounts of smuggling. And to try and stamp down on that, the tax was slashed in 1784.

Ben Henderson

Fascinating. Okay, so we get the picture. Catherine has popularised tea at the elite level and it's slowly trickling down through the classes and growing in popularity. But I get the feeling, Alice, that things are about to take a much darker turn.

Alice Loxton

They are indeed.

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Alice Loxton

Chapter 2 the Tea Wars Now I'm taking us forward into the 1800s when tea had become so popular that Britain was willing to go to war for it. At this point, China is still the only country that produces. And of course the British Empire is at its height. So it's a time of expansionism, trade, globalism, all happening apace. And there's this company that's been set up, it's called the East India Company and there are a few of these, but in this instance we're talking about the British one. It started out as a merchant company, but over time it basically became an extension of the British state.

Ben Henderson

Yes, and the East India Company plays a huge role in this story, doesn't it?

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. Because in order to meet British demand for tea, the East India Company was determined to try and buy some more. But there was a problem because the Chinese would only accept Silver in exchange for tea. And the East India Company did not have enough silver. And the way that they dealt with this problem is rather looked down on today, shall we say, to put it politely, because what they did was they took opium, which was being produced in parts of East India, an area of the world that they controlled at that time, and they amped up the production massively. So opium comes from poppies, it's massively addictive.

Ben Henderson

Yeah. A very dangerous drug that can ruin lives and has done many people.

Alice Loxton

So the East India Company then sold this opium illegally to Chinese merchants in exchange for silver, which then allowed them to buy more tea to bring back to Britain. And this did lead to a huge problem in China of opium addiction, which you can understand, the Emperor wasn't very happy about.

Ben Henderson

Yeah. And this is what leads to what's known as the Opium wars, isn't it?

Alice Loxton

The Opium wars, indeed. So the Emperor even writes to Queen Victoria in 1839. He pleas for this trade of opium to cease. He's met with silence. And next he takes action. He seizes 20,000 chests of opium and dumps it in the sea. And the East India Company retaliates with great force.

Ben Henderson

And we obviously know it as a company, but they actually have the Royal Navy, don't they, to support them in going to war here.

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. So the Royal Navy send in these warships. There's steamships towing gunboats that smash through China's river and coastal defences. So China is forced to capitulate. It's a great humiliation for them. They end up having to pay for the loss of the opium. They cede Hong Kong to Britain, they're forced to open up more ports to trade to Britain. And the eventual result of all of this is that tea starts to flow more easily and enable trade with Britain.

Ben Henderson

Gosh, we're flooding their country with drugs, causing loads of addiction and going to war for tea.

Alice Loxton

Now, following this, the Brits not only had they forced China to trade in this way, but they also wanted to take it a step further. Instead of having to rely on China to trade the tea, they wanted to shortcut this and grow the tea themselves. And so in India, they set up tea gardens and plantations. The great problem was that they were lacking in some pretty key parts of this. They lacked the knowledge, the know how of how to grow the tea, but also the plants to do it. There have been all of these attempts which just totally failed. And this is where we introduce a new character to the story. Get comfortable, because this is quite a story. So let me introduce you to Robert Fortune. He is a Scottish botanist, explorer, and in 1848 he was instructed by the East India Company to, in an infamous episode of corporate espionage, travel to China in secret and do something pretty daring. Gather the tea seeds, the plants, and the understanding which would enable the British to grow. Now, this is a pretty devious move, to put it kindly. Fortune disguises himself in traditional Chinese clothing and hairstyle. He sneaks into areas of China which are completely forbidden to foreigners and he goes to the factories and he sees how tea is made.

Ben Henderson

I can't believe that a Scottish man can fit in in 19th century China like that.

Alice Loxton

But yeah, it's a very impressive, an impressive disguise. So he brought back 20,000 live plants and convinced a small number of workers to travel to a northern province, as he called it, to grow the tea. And this was in fact British controlled India in what we would now know as Darjeeling. And that is why we have Darjeeling.

Ben Henderson

Oh, Darjeeling tea.

Alice Loxton

Yes. Well done.

Ben Henderson

Fantastic.

Alice Loxton

Now, it's really interesting to read about Fortune's take on the whole affair. He wrote this book about it and he talks about it like this amazing adventure. He was the first to see these secrets. He wrote. I often look back upon those days with feelings of unalloyed pleasure. And of course, the interesting thing is he might have had a great time, but for China, they see this very, very differently.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, absolutely. He's a bit of a national villain there, isn't he?

Alice Loxton

Yeah, absolutely. And the point is, he's seriously unpopular in China today. They view him as this terrible figure. They see it as trickery. He single handedly kneecapped the economy and it's part of that great century of humiliation which they still talk about today. And they call it the great Tea Heist. That's how it's remembered.

Ben Henderson

So, yeah, Robert Fortune and the. And the opium trade echoes down the centuries.

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. So it's quite a big change at this point. They've exploited opium and employed some pretty brutal military tactics. There's been a sprinkling of espionage. And all of this broke China's monopoly on tea production and began to satisfy this raging demand for tea in Britain. Chapter 3. Look for the bare necessities. Okay, so as the Ovium wars and tea espionage are playing out in the Far east, what's happening back in Britain? Well, the Industrial Revolution is well underway and this is playing quite a big part in the demand for tea. Can you tell me a bit about the Industrial Revolution, Ben? I know it's your great favorite Topic?

Ben Henderson

Oh, well, I'll try my best. So it's obviously a massive period of technological change. Britain turns from being a largely kind of agrarian country where most people live in the countryside to being a heavily urbanized country based on factory work. Okay, and so what is life like for those factory workers? Well, they work terrible hours, they have terrible diets. And the thing is, if only they had something warm and sustaining to keep them going through those long hours, I

Alice Loxton

can't imagine what that possibly could be. So Charles Dickens, the great 19th century novelist, paints quite a vivid picture of the industrial revolution in many of his books, but also mentions tea quite a lot within that. And what's interesting is it was used across classes at this point and it's really seen as this regular homely drink. It's part of this comforting ritual. And actually tea is seen as a rejuvenating drink in the way that you might think about coffee today. So I've got a few bits from Dickens that I thought we could have a look at. One of the mentions is in Great Expectations and we follow the character Pip. Mr. Pumblechook and I breakfasted at 8 o' clock in the parlour behind the shop where the shopman took his mug of tea and hunch of bread and butter on a sack of peas in the front premises.

Advertiser

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Ben Henderson

Well, I mean, I like the mentions of tea there, feel nice and homely. But who has a. Who has bread and butter on a sack of peas?

Alice Loxton

I think he's sitting on a sack of peas.

Ben Henderson

Obviously that's an unconventional, unconventional breakfast anyway,

Alice Loxton

weird habits of the past. But there we go. So he's having bread and butter and a mug of tea, which seems, you know, I'd be up for that. And so there's lots of mentions of tea throughout Dickens books and it's basically accepted among historians that in this industrial period, tea is broadened out to be not just something for the elite, these kind of lovely, delicate types of tea, but actually it's for the masses too, and it becomes increasingly important for industrial workers. So by 1834, there's a lot of mills and factories where they're giving workers particular moments in the day which are specified as tea breaks.

Ben Henderson

Okay, so tea's being worked into the regime now, becoming part of the fabric of society.

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. And during these gruelling shifts of long hours in the mills and the factories, they see tea as this great stimulant. It's really sugary.

Ben Henderson

So it's like the modern day or the 19th century energy drink, that kind of thing.

Alice Loxton

It's an energy drink.

Ben Henderson

People are using it not just for the taste, but very much as a stimulant to help people get through the day.

Alice Loxton

And we heard from Charles Dickens. But the British food historian Pen Vogler, she has also written about this, and she says that, interestingly, the way that Dickens writes about it, there is a bit of a divide between coffee and tea. And that manifests as the baddies, the evil characters drinking coffee and the goodies, the good people in the books drinking tea.

Ben Henderson

Outrageous. And I was always a Dickens fan. I can't believe he'd say that. Although I have to say, you know, there are some pretty evil, you know, Matcha drinkers and things like that. Anyone who asks for one of those really obscure ones in Shishi coffee shops,

Alice Loxton

you know, takes ages to make.

Ben Henderson

I can sympathise with Dickens there.

Alice Loxton

Yeah, well, you know, I think in this situation, it would mean that you played the baddie and I was the good character. So I'm all for it, all for Penn Vogler's theory. But the crucial point is that the Industrial Revolution seems to cement tea as this warm and sustaining drink that's good for our health. But I suppose the. The key point here is that in the Industrial Revolution, tea is cemented as not just a kind of warm and cozy drink, but actually one that's really integral for our health. And we actually spoke to a tea expert, Jane Pettigrew, and her theory is that Britain's success during the Industrial Revolution could be credited to the importance of tea. Just the simple point that the water had to be boiling, so that made it safer to drink, or the fact you've got milk for protein and sugar for energy. All of this was fueling a workforce of healthy workers.

Ben Henderson

Fascinating. So I think this is really kind of at the heart of why Britain becomes so associated with tea, isn't it? Because the Industrial Revolution happens earliest and fastest in Britain. It utterly transformed our society more than any other. And therefore tea, which is basically the sustaining juice that's firing the Industrial Revolution is naturally going to become part of our national identity. And this. This era is also the era, you know, the Victorians, they're awash with model moral panics and all that kind of stuff. And industrialization has brought. I mentioned some of the poverty earlier. There's a lot of problems with alcoholism, so they see tea as a great solution to that too, because, you know, get them off the booze, get them on the T. Absolutely.

Alice Loxton

The temperance movement, I think, is how it's described. And Florence Nightingale, who was the founder of modern nursing, she recommended it. So she said that it was certain that there is nothing yet discovered which is a substitute to the English patient for his cup of tea. He can take it when he can take nothing else. And he often can't take anything else if he has it not. Which is a bit of a convoluted way of just saying that they would often give tea to the patients and she thought that was a great morale boost.

Ben Henderson

How fascinating. I love that. So it's very. Both a healthy product, but it's also useful for fueling the workers.

Alice Loxton

So at this point, tea is really embedded in British society. A great moment is in the 1800s when the first tea room opens in Glasgow, which I know you would have been very excited about, Ben. The first one queuing up outside, I'm sure.

Ben Henderson

Well, I've actually not had great experiences with tea rooms, so I went on holiday to Bath. Yeah. And I know there's a very famous tea room there and they just didn't let me in, I think. Apparently you got a book well in advance. I know, exactly. They saw me as a coffee drinker.

Alice Loxton

Wait, you got barred from the tea room?

Ben Henderson

Pretty much, yeah. But anyway, then I thought my luck had changed because I think it was my girlfriend's birthday and her brother had bought her a voucher for this specific tea room all the way over in Leeds. So it was like, it's a big drive to get there. So I'm thinking, wow, this must be, you know, pretty high status. And we get there and it was just grim, you know, there was no one in there, apart from one guy on his own who'd gone for his own little birthday tea.

Alice Loxton

So this is why you don't like tea?

Ben Henderson

Yeah. And I just. I wasn't a fan.

Alice Loxton

My favorite tea room, it's in a village called Chawton in Hampshire, which is where Jane Austen lived and wrote her books. And there's a tea room opposite, and it's full of Jane Austen fans. And it's got teacups all across the ceiling. Like there are teacups dangling from the ceilings. And I will take you and you will enjoy it, I'm sure.

Ben Henderson

Oh, fantastic. Looking forward to it.

Alice Loxton

There we go.

Ben Henderson

I'll hold you to that.

Alice Loxton

So tea rooms are in, which is exciting. Maybe not for Ben, but moving on, throughout the 20th century, the love of tea continues. And in the Second World War, it plays again, an integral part. So this is a good stat. So the five purchases, the top five purchases of the government in the Second World War are bullets, artillery shells, bombs, explosives and tea.

Ben Henderson

I love that.

Alice Loxton

That's so British is absolutely core to the war effort. It's rationed, it's provided for soldiers, so

Ben Henderson

it's more important than clothes, you know, fairly key things to human existence.

Alice Loxton

What would you rather? I'd rather. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben Henderson

Well, this is.

Alice Loxton

They'd rather people be naked and drink tea than basically.

Ben Henderson

I love that. But, yeah, no, tea definitely is part of the war effort, isn't it? And you get those iconic images that come out in old newsreels of, you know, bombed out homes during the Blitz, but then these women emerge and they're still there handing out the tea and everyone's kind of smiling and it becomes that symbol of national resilience, doesn't it?

Alice Loxton

Absolutely. And you can see for the last 200 years, 300 years perhaps, tea has actually been really integral to British history. Today it's grown all around the world. Place like Africa and across Asia. And actually you even get tea in Britain. There are, would you believe this, more than 50 tea growers in Scotland alone, which I don't know how they do that, considering the climate, but fair play to the Scots for being excellent gardeners, I suppose. But I suppose the big question is, what is the future of tea? I mean, you're a coffee drinker.

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Ben Henderson

Well, it's an interesting story how coffee seems to have, I think, actually risen above tea among many Brits these days. There was a bit of research that was published a few years ago which said more Brits now regularly drink coffee than tea. And I think it's a lot to do with, you know, there's been a huge, huge amount of marketing around coffee, isn't there? Plus we've got the infiltration of American culture which really drives that, that kind of like that sense of, you know, the artisan coffee house, all that kind of stuff and all the different rituals around coffee. I think partly what elevates it, particularly among people, you know, you and my age.

Alice Loxton

Yeah, I mean, I do think coffee is the sexier drink. I say, you know, it's a bit cooler, whereas tea is so associated. I mean, I'd still definitely have a cup of tea if I was going to a cathedral cafe or maybe every day. Yeah, obviously that's what I spend most of my time doing, but it's very much village teaspoon. And the great thing about tea is that you can have cake with it. So you can have cake and tea. I think it's something you have when you visit your granny, that kind of thing. But it's more cosy. Right. If coffee's sexy, tea is cozy.

Ben Henderson

Yeah. And you get these new brands of tea coming out. So it's not just our traditional black teas. You've got teas from the Far east,

Alice Loxton

herbal teas, aren't there? There's bubble tea.

Ben Henderson

Bubble tea.

Alice Loxton

It's the new thing.

Ben Henderson

Exactly. And you know, I actually interviewed one of the. Well, there's two tea houses in Taiwan that claim to have invented bubble tea. So I interviewed the owner and one of his assistants who supposedly was the first person to spot the tapioca balls and put them in the bubble tea.

Alice Loxton

Wow.

Ben Henderson

Yeah. Historic moment.

Alice Loxton

That is a big. That's up there with Chenong's invention of tea 5,000 years ago. Well, despite all of this, tea is still a big part of our story. 84% of Brits drink tea every day and there are 60 billion cups per year. So that's quite a lot, even if you are not contributing to those numbers.

Ben Henderson

Well, thanks so much, Alice. That's been absolutely fantastic. You've really given us a great insight into how tea spread and how it became an iconic part of British culture. I'm interested to go to these cathedral cafes with you. It sounds like an excellent daily.

Alice Loxton

Well, no, we'll go to Chawton.

Ben Henderson

Yeah, fantastic.

Alice Loxton

You'll love it.

Ben Henderson

And actually, I didn't realise that it was that switch between producing chi in China to India that left us with the humble cuppa we have today. So I've learned a lot.

Alice Loxton

I hope everyone listening feels the same. Make sure to listen and subscribe to hear for the history on BBC Sounds or watch us on our YouTube channel. So until next time, goodbye.

Ben Henderson

Goodbye. Hi there, Ben. Here again. And just to say if that's whetted your appetite for more, head to Here for the history. Right now for our next episode, which is all about food. Specifically, why does British food have such a bad reputation? You can Hear it on BBC Sounds, or if you're outside the UK, you can listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also watch the episode on our YouTube channel.

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